Josh Holloway, you broke our hearts. Bravo. We had lowered expectations for this presumed “Kate episode,” and on most related points, we were right for having them. But for all the complaints we could readily recite from the cliché of Kate going after Sawyer actually being remarked upon to a largely flat and somewhat surreal off-island destraction — we did not hate “What Kate Does.” We both actually liked it.
And for Jen to say this about an episode with Kate’s name in the title, frankly, is no small feat for “LOST.”
On the character front, Sawyer’s crushing confession hit hard. We remarked last week that Josh Holloway’s descent into nihilism was a powerful turn, and our love for his talent only grew this week. Even saddled with on-the-nose lines like, “Do what you want with him, or anybody else,” he made us believe that this nearly redeemed man now had absolutely nothing to lose. And Dogen? Not since the introduction of creepy Benjamin Linus in Season Two have we been so confused yet simultaneously charmed by a new character. He’s mysterious and brooding, yet wry and funny… in a dignified way.
Jen thought Dogen’s pill presentation was very “Matrix.” And pointed out that Dogen’s leadership strategy, using a translator to add some distance between him and the people he leads, is something that Ben probably should have considered.
It’s a shame to think that this leader has to work with knuckleheads like Justin and (the now late) Aldo. But their two line debate over whether Jin is “one of them” or not was telling. The way Dogen was clearly concerned with Sawyer’s safe return, along with the recitation of names that Dogen called for when our losties were first brought to the temple, it’s obvious there’s something special about these specific people. Our people.
And on the mythology front, the reappearance of Claire before the final thud wasn’t even the most interesting clue. It was the diagnosis of poor Sayid, who’s not a zombie, but will possibly become one in due time. He, like Claire, has been “claimed,” and a darkness is growing within him. It seems that Claire is already lost to the dark side of the force, and the question is, who else has been so infected? The late Christian Shephard seems a good guess. These would be the agents of the Man In Black.
Claire did seem to be channeling a bit of Danielle Rousseau in her half second on screen, and she’s obviously been setting Rousseau-like traps. Also, the way Justin (or Aldo?) said Rosseau had been dead for a while seemed to suggest that perhaps our crazy Frenchwoman had a share of darkness within her as well. On the other hand, out of everyone on the island, she seemed most wary of “the sickness,” and the similarity between Sayid’s torture test and Rosseau’s car battery interrogation in Season 1 is obvious. I’m going to say Rosseau managed to steer clear of infection, just not of bullets.
One thing that stood out this week? Our friends at the temple seem to be big on free will and choice. After more than one physical scuffle with Jack, the burly guards obediently step aside when he finally decides he wants to talk to Dogen. And Dogen said Sayid had to take the pill — the poison pill — willingly. Indeed, the way Dogen asks Sawyer to stay, coupled with the way Hurley was told the alarm wasn’t to keep them locked in, suggests that our losties aren’t entirely the prisoners they think they are.
And what of the off-island storyline? There’s no doubt Kate had several moments of deja vu, from spotting Jack at the airport, to pulling the stuffed orca out of Claire’s backpack (the same whale that Aaron clutched in “Something Nice Back Home”), to hearing Aaron’s name. A name that even surprised Claire. So we get that there are links between the world where Oceanic 815 crashed and the world where it didn’t. But honestly it still seems like a distraction, a writers’ flight of “what if” fancy, particularly when the story we all thought we were following is still unfolding on the island. Sure, it was awesome to see Ethan again (talking about needles, no less), but we didn’t even see Unlocke, Alpert, Ben and friends this week. I can only hope to be wonderfully surprised with a big payoff further down the line.
- The zombie conversation was hilarious. But Miles topped it with, “We’ll be in the food court if you need us.”
- Dogen’s dry answers to Jack were great. “What’s that?” “A baseball.” “What’s this?” “Tea.” Reminiscent of Alpert’s explanation of a compass to Locke: “It points north, John.”
- Doc Arzt pulls the
“Taxi Driver”“Midnight Cowboy” line, “I’m walkin’ here!” Just like Sawyer did when Christian hits him with the car door in “Two for the Road.” - In contrast, Kate had some real clunkers. Her astonished lines with Sawyer in the temple as they looked at Sayid were, it seemed, practically a re-run of the same astonished conversation in the same dark corner as last week.
- So is this the end of the Kate-Sawyer side of the love triangle? I hope so. I’m not sure if I can take another go ’round. There definitely seemed to be some heat on the Kate-Jack side. I don’t care who Kate chooses. I just want her to choose and be done with it.
- It’s great to see Jin speaking English. And his desperate search for Sun is understandable. But they’ve been kept apart so long, I’m starting to forgetting the chemistry they had, and I’m afraid their reunification will be less Rose and Bernard and more “Waaalt!”
- Locations: Honolulu International Airport (LAX), Koapaka Street (where Kate left, then came back for, Claire), Hawaii Medical Center West (where Kate took Claire) and a home in Kahala (Claire’s would-be adoptive parents’ home).
What did you think of “What Kate Does”? right now! Commenting below is the best way to submit feedback, so you can share your thoughts with fellow listeners immediately. You can also e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LOSTline at (815) 310-0808. We love hearing from you.
People, listen to yourselves! I mean, really, go back and read all of the comments about this episode and try to make a decent argument that Lost is not a fraction of the show it used to be.
And guess what? It is us die-hard fans that feel the pain the most. No, I am not going to apologize for this ridiculous incarnation of Lost and spend endless hours trying to make sense the sheer lunacy of it.
You know it has jumped the shark when the character’s don’t even flinch at the supernatural extremes of the show. The entire storytelling technique of Lost has been to answer last week’s question with this week’s question, all building to what we think — and were promised by the producers — was a completely rational and logical explanation.
But that doesn’t fly anymore and all of the storylines are so redundant now. I thought they were joking about the Zombie season. Is there any other hack genre gimmick that they have not thrown in the mix to hide the fact that emperor’s has been naked for a few seasons now. I guess Jack has not been revealed to be a robot and aliens haven’t descended on New-Otherton… yet.
I have a cynical idea that I pray is not true. Could Damon Lindelof be applying the same pragmatic yet hackish technique he used in Star Trek to hide the seams of his quilted storylines? You know: the time travel and alternate universes that conveniently explain away any discrepancy that fans will inevitably discover when the show wraps up.
“Oh, that decision we made in the writer’s room in season two doesn’t match the decision we made in season five because… because… the time lines have been altered! Yeah… that’s the ticket.”
Get it?
No, I don’t. And you’ve taken the best show on television and collapsed it under it’s own incomprehensible mythology.
At least we’ll always have season one and that primal, original motivation to get off the island. Hell, I even liked the sci-fi intrigue of Hanso and the purple sky finale of Season Two.
But from season three on — when they turned the mysterious others into a mundane suburb with a book club — they drifted somewhere else. I have watched every show since, but I really don’t care anymore. You can’t care when there are no rules to their universe.
Writers of Lost: you went waaaaaay too supernatural guys.
And the Oceanic 6 storyline and everything from Season 4 on is literally a betrayal of the original premise. Later when time travel was confirmed, I wanted to puke. At least at the execution of the idea.
And now we have season 6 with… wait for it… wait for it… new others! How ingenius!
I miss the days when we all thought is was cool that there was a polar bear on the island. Now we are debating whether Sayid is a good zombie or a bad zombie.
Really? Wow.
@ James. ^^
You’re not wrong.
But you’re also not entirely right.
Sure the show doesn’t have the same essence as S-1.
But our characters might as well believe in anything after they’ve seen an island disapear, and when they return their in 77?
Ofcourse a healing pool doesn’t seem too out of the ordinary.
Nevertheless James, this only hurts more because we are in the final season.
But I think it will pay off.
The writers deserve us to be patient. ITS THE LEAST WE (AS FANS) CAN DO!
Let’s face it, they jumped the shark with the pilot.
But thats why we loved it, because they got away with it.
We’re in for the ride, and trust me it will pay off.
we just have to be patient.
Next week will be sure to satisfy us.
I really…really..
hope so anyways.
=)
Heres to taking that leap of faith…
Oh, and I’m still on the Man In Locke’s side.
TEAM DARK!
Ethan is Goodspeed now, because he was evacuated with the rest of the children before Jughead went off, so he never joined the Others and kept his father Horace’s last name.
Question: how does Dogen know Claire is Jack’s sister? She didn’t know that, so the only person that might have told him is Christian, unless Jacob wrote it down on his list. Or, maybe Christian told Cabin Claire, and something happened afterward to Cabin Claire to make her into Clairielle.
@Knvies I am on Team Dark too, I have been since last week when I rewatched the finale. MIB just wants to move on and be home while Jacob is getting a kick out of his little experiments.
Again we are on the Wizard Of OZ theme, he just wants to go home.
@Stubble – the others have always kept extensive files they knew everything about every one. Even though Dogen is in the temple he is still an other.
@James – yes the show can be crazy, but above all it is still fun, it still makes me think, and I’ll miss it when it is gone.
Thanks for the all the theories everyone. I have Wednesdays off which works out well for figuring out the latest episode. Of course this means I am not getting much done on Wednesdays anymore. Time to get back to reality, wish I had a parallel reality where I could be on vacation.
My husband thinks that our original team of losties have been “called’ to the island many many times over the last few centuries/millennia maybe. That’s how Jacob can approach a child (Kate and Sawyer at 7 and 10 or whatever) and know that they are who he needs in the future. They keep coming back, again and again as whoever they are at the moment but their souls are the same (possibly people from the black rock, old Others that died in the 70’s, things like that..)
Anybody agree?
When Kate and Sawyer were on the dock, I screamed at the tv ‘if she hits on him, I’m going to freak out!’, thankfully, she didn’t..
OK, great comments everybody, love reading them all..
I will only post once for once… (everyone knows I am a liar just as Ben but this time I will do it. I have to agree with some of you and either they succeed to blow my mind with the next answers they give us or I will easily point big inconsistencies in the story… damn Kate’s episodes!)
@Rich: Kudos on the baptism (I almost posted “how come Rich didn’t came up with that” lol). I think it is now quite clear that it was baptism… Before you are taken by the darkness (going to hell) you need to be “cleansed” from your sins. But in the strange “Others world” world of sins.
Ok, the most important part: MIB is right! “you brought them here. They fight, kill, corrupt…”
Dogen confirmed that there are no children for the Others since some time and that they are brought to the Island (by Jacob). What do we know of the Others past and their attitude? Mihail, a former soviet union warrior/killer. Ben, liar manipulator killer. Dogen, manipulator torturor poisoner. Aldo, moron warden killer. And when you are taken as a child and brought up by those people you end up: Ethan, a psycho abductor hanger instead of a nice doctor.
Most of you think that Rousseau’s team as been “claimed”. I clearly don’t. How do the Others knows Rousseau’s name? I think they were brought to the Temple and “cleansed”. And we know how the Others interact with other people if they don’t have a list when they meet them, they shot arrows (Ben was nice to tell her to go the other way when she hears whispers… But Ben is always nice with young mothers).
Hence, Claire à la Rousseau’s way… “claimed” or “unclean” or “sick”. I would say “still human” (like… screaming when you are tortured) and just saved Jin from being killed by the Others.
What is my main problem with what they are doing: I think they let us believed that Jacob was representing free will and was preventing MIB to “go home” and that MIB was a killer (Pilot, Eko…) that “judged” people because he had powers. But now team Jacob are killers, team MIB are killers, Sayid Sawyer Kate (and Jack in some extend to his father) are killers… How can I care anymore about these people who are all cold hearted killer? How could I connect myself emotionally with so “wrong” individuals? I don’t even care if they do things for the “right” reasons, what is happening in this universe is just wrong and now I really hope they all disappear by the end and that the alternate universe (where you use your abductor as a taxi) ends up the only one remaining, where people are actually human.
PS: Claire was abducted by Ethan before giving birth with Kate. Now it seems that she got abducted by Kate before giving birth with Ethan.
@Yann – your post makes me sad. Yes, the show is very violent, in fact I cannot think of one episode where someone hasn’t been beaten or killed or blown up.
But I have felt that the show was ultimately about redemption. Everyone has good and bad in them. I hope that the end of this series shows that good can overcome evil and that given the choice, people will choose the good. That free will can change fate.
Sayid had chosen to redeem himself with doing good before being forced back to the island. In fact Sayid is the one person who did not come back with free will. Maybe that is why coming back did not work out for him.
@ Rich in Cleveland. My brother and I discussed the change in the water also. We said the same thing that the water not being clear when they dunk Sayid is why he is “claimed” and I am assuming that the water is not clear due to Jacob’s death and MIB taking over the Temple. With that said, it brings up two more questions. 1. If the water was clear back when Ben was dunked in it and therefore he was not “claimed” by the MIB why the hell is he so dam bad?? Is it just his nature?? 2. Why would they say Sayid was “claimed” like Claire? Who died then to make the water change to murky?
One last thing before going to work, (sorry to be posting so much).
Another reason I am on Team Smokey/dark:
Jacob has brought people to the island to prove some point, not sure of what it is yet. But the reason it has never worked is because Jacob has stacked the deck. He cheats. There has never really been “free will”. Jacob has created the others. In creating them he has created the “enemy” and manipulated them into thinking they are the good guys. All evidence points to them being the bad guys.
Dharma is a non-violent society yet they were all “purged” as if they were evil. The others then took over their territory.
Oceanic 815 would have been fine if left alone. They would have just lived on the island, trying to make the best of a bad situation. Instead they were kidnapped, beaten and killed. The Oceanic 815 group had to fight back to survive. This forced some of them to become like the others and do bad things (Michael shooting Libby and Ana Lucia, Sayid killing, etc). They had to fight against the enemy – the others.
Maybe Widmore isn’t trying to regain control over the island, maybe he is trying to elminate Ben and stop the others from repeating this cycle over and over.
A thought struck me last night as I lay in bed. What’s going on with the rest of the Ajira survivors? Will we ever see them again?
Ryan and Jen,
Thank you so much for the Transmission! My wife and I live in Maryland and we are big fans! We loved the Season 3 re-watch podcast and we are looking forward to your coverage this season. LOST takes on a whole new dimension when combined with your wonderful podcast and blog. We love you guys and “You All Everybody” out there in Transmission land.
A few thoughts so far on the direction this season is headed in after three episodes:
1- Dogen rocks! I only like new characters that add value and he is not disapointing so far. Although if Jack and Dogen play catch with the baseball ala Mr. Friendly and Jack with the football. I might have to throw a hold on a minute flag on Darlton for cheezziness!
2- So I think I get the basic idea of what Darlton is doing with the 2004 Flash sideways crew and 2007 original LOSTies. I am not sure how they will do this, but I think we will see the 2004 Flashies merge in 2007 with the Originals on the Island in the Final episode. It is like this… imagine two tall mirrors side by side. Both mirrors show the same person(the soul) but one mirror shows the 2004 Flash version and the other shows the 2007 real time version. Currently the show is showing us the two mirror versions as if we were standing say ten feet away from the mirror. The closer the soul part gets to the side by side mirrors the closer the refelections come together. The question at the end of this is which mirror will end up being broken… the Flash mirror or the Original version. I think what we will see is that some people will retain their original self and others will venture on as their alternative self, but on the same time line and in the same soul. So I am not suggesting that Jacob splits souls or MIB does either and no this is not a rehash of Horcruxes the LOST version. I think what we are going to see is that the Island makes people whole again and thus its purpose is to maintain the balance of Good and Evil or Black and White in the universe.
3 – I hope that the Flashies are not just what if versions of our original cast. That would be cheap and I hope Darlton does not go there. I kind of think that “What Ever Happpened, Happened” as a universal theme is evident in the 2004 time line now as we are seeing our Flashies go through the same experieinces that they were destined to live through Island visit or not. I think we are going to see Locke walk, because Jack fixes him. Kate will play a part in Aaron’s life now that she is connected again with Claire. I can only hope that we see the Flash version of Sawyer meeting Juliet somehow off island.
4 – The biggest mystery of all…how the heck are Deadwood and LOST linked? Well when LOST ends, do yourself a favor and watch Deadwood! Another awesome show and it is amazing how many Deadwood actors are showing up on LOST. If Ian McShane shows up as the Captain of the Blackrock this season I will flip my lid. Boy would he make a good Lost bad guy!
Keep up the great work. 13 more episodes to go… oh the horror!
Welshie loves LOST!
Apart from Holloway’s wonderful performance. This episode fell flat on it’s butt on all fronts. Atleast for me.
The fact that Darlton chose S6 to introduce yet another batch of characters rankle with me.. hard.
OK, if you don’t like DOGON == NOGOD how about DOGEN==NEGOD or “Of God” if you use Ne from Italian. So he may be Of God, which makes way more sense to me given my theory on Jacob is good and smokey/MIB is the devil.
In the temple scene I think I saw a hieroglyphic image of the sub. Wonder what other symbols were on the wall and how old they were.
Also, I didn’t see a bullet hole in Sayid’s shirt. Does this mean the water somehow turns back time for anything submerged in it? Maybe the water turns you back 108 minutes. He still had scarring from the bullet, so maybe not.
@ beth in sacramento- you’re hilarious!
@mindstage- I like your angel theory, it made me think…about posting this stuff!
It seems to me like the writers are really shoving the eastern spiritualism in our faces this season, more so than the science of seasons past. I think the barefootedness shown was a signal that the Temple operated similarly to an ashram or temple in the conventional word-it is customary to remove one’s shoes to symbolize not bringing in material attatchment or grossness to a sacred space.
A lot of this episode had very subdued colors with touches of red. I noticed this with the crazy defibrillation box with red wires used to “test” Sayid. The red books on the table in the Temple greenhouse, Hurley’s red shirt, the nurses all had maroon scrubs, Claire had a red hoodie and necklace, the garage was mostly gray with red gasoline cans. There was definitely a heart metaphor going on too- Aaron’s heartbeat stopped, then it was going too fast, Sayid’s infection is moving toward his heart, Sawyer’s heart is broken, the Temple may be the heart of the island, Hurley is in charge and is the most soft-hearted, Kate has never been sure of the path of her heart. A lot of Eastern religions and spiritual practices view the path to God is through Self realization often with an emphasis on the heart being the seat of the soul, rather than the mind. (I’m going somewhere with this, really!) Anyway, as a result of these observations I have developed a crackpot theory:
I think that Jacob and MIB were to be sent on a mission on earth(from divinity/God) to help humankind evolve or Self-realize so that they may break their cycles of reincarnation and become liberated souls-forever returning and living at Home- heaven, the Ultimate, divine universe, whatever. As to how they would help with this process, they were given a choice. The two beings would from a trinity with the island, (the power of creation, growth and development(jacob) and destruction(MIB). One could be a non-corporeal supernatural force, with lots of powers, entrusted with the job of being like a cosmic vacuum cleaner. This being would assess the humans, scan them for weakness, obsessions, addictions ect. and then destroy and remove these obstacles. The other being would be born a lowly human, and would have to follow the path of Self realization and once attaining this level would be a human guide, guru or prophet of sorts, nurturing human growth once the obstacles had been removed by the “vaccum”. The two beings would from a trinity with the island, (the power of creation) growth and development (Jacob) and destruction (MIB). These beings would work together in unison with the island until all the souls had attained liberation and then everyone would be free to go home. So MIB chose the flashier job, but after awile he grew tired and resentful of the humans making the same mistakes over and over, life after life, prolonging his separation from the divine state. “I’m dissappointed in all of you”…
The human birth was actually the better choice, because Jacob was revered and loved, not feared like Smokey. MIB felt like he was tricked by Jacob. His hatred for Jacob and humanity grew and he started to pervert his powers, claiming souls by obscuring the heart(the path home), destroying the ability to procreate (no more souls) so that he can be free from his duties. For some reason Jacob is exiled, and has not seen his people for a really long time. He may have not fought back against his death because he didn’t have the capacity. The destructive force was MIB’s responsibility- so Jacob may not have this quality. I think that the Others suck because they are following a shell of a system. They have all the makings of a good deciple: devotion, detatchment, loyalty, obedience, faith but they are missing the element of love. They have no love. Without Jacob’s direct influence, there is no example of love. This is why Hurley is so important, and why Jacob chose him to represent. Hurley only makes decisions from his heart, from love. Hurley will save all!
I’m not quite sure how MIB is planning to go home, or if he even sees the divine as his home anymore. I was thinking that he may try to claim a human birth for himself, possibly Aaron. This may be the “real” loophole. Or he may be off to the Temple to kill Richard- a liberated soul “nice to see you out of those chains” and hitch a ride. Ok, that sounds crazy. I’m done now:)
Holy crap that was long, sorry!
@Kait
I liked that, very thoughtful! But hard to imagine how this would be explained on a TV show.
I wonder if there is a lack of electrical/modern devices in the temple area because they would interfere the ability to diagnose the sickness with the electric torture machine? Plus how do you wire an old temple with electricity? Dogen’s plants are getting sunlight through skylights.
loved the show, but I just wanted to point out (and if you mention this in your podcast I will be estatic) that Justin was played by a Canadian Actor who played BLT in the orginal Degrassi Junior High and High! 🙂 haha.
Looking forward to hearing your podcast on this episode!
Ok I read some of your posts and I have a new theory that help me cope with all that, it is not entirely formed yet but here it is:
It is all but a game between Jacob and MIB. Like in a child game if you touch someone you “claim” him unless he dies. Jacob has the right to go off Island and MIB doesn’t, he wants to be able to go home. The people you have “claimed” can’t kill each others… That’s the “Rules”. Unless they are able to “free willingly” get killed (like Ben free willingly didn’t go off Island and thus sacrificed his daughter or killed Jacob). The leaders of the clans are of course master deciver because they need to be able to “free willingly” get people into doing things they should not do usually (include killing).
Morality: They are all bad. They are all just playing. The losties which were not “claimed” could be killed disregardly but now Dogan has to watch over all the “claimed” one (by the “light” side if you ask HIS point of view) because if they go out of the Temple they could rejoin MIB team and they would change size.
That explains “the rules”, that explains “the sickness”, that explains “I want you to want to do it” (as Michael which had been claimed (remember the “the Island won’t let you suicide”)) “I want you to take the pill”, that explains the total disregard for other human life that don’t come into play, that explains why they were brought here.
I am beginning to wonder if LOST is just a hugely involved game of capture the flag between MIB and Jacob, with the Temple being “home”base. Would sort of love that, actually.
Each round (set of new players) the game becomes more and more elaborate as the quest for loopholes (and winning) in gameplay becomes more difficult with each round (Egyptian times, Blackrock time, Dharma time, 815 time, etc.). Gotta think this through some more…
New random theory: The ash that seems to confine or protect the Smoke Monster is burned Banyan tree. We’ve seen that characters hiding under the trees are not harmed by the smoke monster, for example when Kate and Juliet are being attacked or when Boone and Shannon are being hunted in Boone’s hallucination. Since both seem to protect from the Monster, I think it would make sense that the ash was made of the Banyan trees.
Watched “What Kate Does” a second time and am marginally changing one of my theories regarding the island and The Others.
I’ve always posited that the special properties of the island are the reason the Others, the long-term inhabitants, are unable to carry children to term. The strange time properties making it impossible for them to make it past 7 months of pregnancy. This was why once the DI was purged, The Others needed Juliette to come to the island and find a away for them to reproduce sucessefully. I also believed this was why they kidnapped the children. To give them young children to grow the population artificially.
I still hold to these ideas, but I wonder now if they are concommitant reasons as well. Could the ‘spring’ inside the temple, which one assumes the Others have all at some point been baptized in, somehow cause the proceative problems as well. If so, how odd, given that Taweret is a god of fertility. If the spring (and the island itself) holds properties which make healing and longevity possible, is the impossibility of procreation the price paid for such ‘blessing’.
Also, I wonder now if ‘the sickness’ is another reason The Others would take children…protecting them before they could become infected. The scene where Ben kidnaps Alex and then is confronted by Widmore who demands the child be killed, somewhat defies this theory, but it could be simply because by this point a) it would be believed the child might already be corrupted or; b) the tension between Widmore and Ben was by that point simply clouding any decision that was made.
One other point regarding ‘being claimed’. In Season 3 when Colleen is killed, she is dressed in white and buried at sea in a funeral pyre…could this ceremony be a way of protecting the dead from being ‘claimed’?
@docjkm – I don’t know if this one was or will prove to have been seminal, but it does advance Kate’s story a lot.
I’m really surprised how the majority of people writing here don’t find Kate sympathetic or even interesting. I’m very disappointed in all of you. I watched the ep twice and found it really weak because I couldn’t reconcile Kate crying there by herself on the jetty, after Sawyer walks away.
Jen (of this blog) suggested that Kate might be realizing how she’s lying to herself about finding Claire, that she really still has feelings for Sawyer and now hears from him that he has deep feelings only for Juliet. Kate is realizing she failed, due to her self-involvement or even self-absorption, to make it last with either of the men she found attractive and adequate for her. She’s realizing she’s dug herself into a deep existential hole.
So, I watched it a third time and I think that’s the ticket to appreciating this ep. I agree the writing didn’t quite pull it off, you need to flesh out the content and substance of Kate’s feelings a bit too much, but, with this idea, the episode becomes a healthy whole and Kate resumes being a real, complicated person. E.g., she sacrifices for Claire in the new reality but finds herself without someone’s hand to hold in the island reality.
The b-story about Sayid and Claire will continue, but Kate’s development and this episode, at least with this elaboration, is well-drawn.
@KnivesMonroe and friends- Yes, CBD, Claimed By Darkness. Jacob is very, very earnest, but then, Locke, our new favorite son, showed a lot of understanding and compassion, too.
@Yann- You are quite right, all the Losties, except Hurley, Rose and Bernard, are prepared to murder (Hurley and Bernard are prepared to kill only in self-defense). Even the upstanding Jack loses himself (“Through the Looking Glass”). Your theory that you take off with might be right, but needs more evidence.
Overall, a poorly written episode. I found it preposterous that, in the side flash, Kate would dump Claire off on a street corner, take awhile traipsing around LA in a (STOLEN) taxi to find someone who could remove her handcuffs, trust that same guy enough to lower her weapon and go in a back room and change, take the same stolen taxi back to where she got rid of Claire only to find her STILL sitting there (an hour later?), continue driving that taxi around LA in search of an address she’d never been at (since when did Kate become the “LA MapQuest Queen”?), then drive Claire to the hospital and hold her hand during the doctor’s visit. If you want a REAL “holy freaking crap,” that’s what all that is. Very lazy writing. Meanwhile, back on the island, we have the poison pill that has to be taken willfully by Sayid. Why? If they wanted to kill him, just take him out and shoot him in the head. It worked for Rosseau in dealing with her friends. Just too much mumbo jumbo in this episode.
On a good note, the crying scene with Sawyer and Kate was top notch acting….really loved it. Seeing Claire as the new Rousseau was intriguing…it didn’t seem to me that she was as evil or sick as Bruce Lee made her out to be. Also, Kate’s faint recollection of Claire and Jack was good stuff, probably the best part of the side flashes…will be fun to see where LOST goes with this. Oh, and Arzt in the street made me smile…can never get enough of Arzt.
Hoping that next week’s episode is a whole lot more interesting.
As concerns theory that LostiesX (off island) is the reality if nothing we have watched over the last 5 years happened? Who cares? Why invest the 5 years to watch something contrived and boring. The last 5 years were certainly contrived, but they were not boring. I don’t buy it. Don’t think the writers would either.
McCutcheon from the bottle brutha! I see team Flocke garnering the extant gunslinger Ford, and actually wouldn’t mind Linus lying for our side. I’ve long thought that he, like MIB, is misunderstood. Desmond is the free agent, and I think contract terms could be arranged.
@James – join us. We ARE with you. I almost drowned in my own vomit on the first travel in time, yet here we are, keeping the faith. Knives talked me down from that bridge, and yes, I have to keep reminding myself (at times) that this is worth it, that Lost is the best time I have ever had with the tube. It IS. Like any genius, it is maddening, yet genius undeniable. And the maddening is also attractive. @Carol from Boston, KnivesMonroe, NuckinFuts – Join arms, and sing about the girl from Nantucket. And pass that bottle, brutha. @Yann – Your pain is OUR pain. @Carol – my thoughts precisely. Jacob cheats, interferes, and games his way along. MIB/Flocke has had to swallow his ____ for too long, long enough to drive him to create the loophole and kill the A__h___. Welcome to Team Flocke, Team Dark, Sistuh.
@Kait- Very nice. Nice theory, and well articulated. I am attracted.
Most of us seem to agree that this last episode was the morning after a serious binge enjoyed with the season opener. Cotton mouth, nausea, and headache. We are all each others aspirin and fluids. I have faith, strong faith that we will be rewarded and soon.
Meanwhile, I headed out to find Flocke. And Long Live Lost, Ryan, and Jen.
@HeyKir
Only thing is: Darlton stated in an interview in EW last week that MIB’s home is NOT on the island. Fun thought though!
@Kait.
Fascinating theory.
@ Glenn: Dang it!!! lol
Just clued unto this. Has anyone else noticed that of the remaining 6 original losties (not including Claire or Locke), 4 of them – Jack,Kate,Sawyer,Hurley were the ones marched to the others by Michael at the end of season 2 and the other 3 (Jin, Sun, and Sayid) were the ones who first saw the four toed statue while rescuing them. Ok, I’m reading way too much into this… 🙂
@ Yann- Along with your potent observations of the bad and the badder, one of the many bizarre things about Lost has always been the number and volume of gunsandammo on and about this island. AND the rather amazing skill in their use, possessed by almost all. I do not think Hurley’s struggles beside the van with the pistole (S6 opener) was a throwaway. Hurley is unique in his ineptitude. Almost everyone else IS a gunslinger.
Hell! In reviewing, Hurley has killed, with the Dharmobile. Claire, Charlie, Desmond… killers all. The list of non-killers is a pathetically slim one. Why, bruthah? Musings on my trek through the jungle. Flocke, has to be somewhere between the shadow of the statue and the temple, no?
There seems to be a lot of complaining that the characters’ actions “aren’t realistic”. I don’t want to outright disregard anybody’s opinion, but it comes down to the fact that LOST is fiction and always has been. I’d argue that it’s been science fiction. One of the hallmarks of science fiction (to me, anyhow) is that characters often don’t act in a realistic manner.
Just my fifty cents (two cents adjusted for inflation).
😀
TEAM DARK!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa4X_HuFhK8
My review of this latest episode =)
IF MIB can inhabit dead bodies, why can’t Jacob? I think the “claiming” idea is an interesting one. We can’t just assume that Christian is MIB, he could be Jacob.
For that matter the two smokey’s theory has merit too. So many posts here I am not sure of who thought that up. Can someone remind me?
What if the two smoke monsters had a fight and the statue was destroyed in that fight and also the reason the Black Rock was crashed in the middle of the Island. It would take a lot to destroy a statue of that size, but smokey could do it. Wouldn’t that be a cool fight to watch?
@Digidoug – good observation and I think it definitely means something.
Hi guys!
I am checking in from the outback, my search for Locke in our walkabouts have not shed any light to the mystery and I have still not been able to figure out why this country is the key (Hurley said that back in S5 IIRC).
Well this episode certainly did shed some light on people being claimed by the black monster, so maybe Locke was claimed back in S1 when he was dragged by the smoke monster who knows.
On the other side this episode did really impress me… …and are we going to go through the entire season with the two timelines, it is a bit frustrating.
So had the Losties been pawns in this eternal fight between the man in black and the man in white, hmmm… ….I hope we will get some answers soon as we only have 12 or so weeks to go.
I will let you know if I find any clues down here 🙂
You guys rock as always…
G’day to you!
Ilias
Just caught this on DarkUFO’s Lost website: the date on Claire’s ultrasound picture was a continuity error as confirmed by Gregg Nations. If you want to check it out for yourselves got to darkufo.blogspot.com click on “Episodes” and then click on “Mysteries”.
Next to The Transmission, this is my favorite Lost site.
I think that even more than central to the Jack. Jack is our anchor, our constant maybe. I think we all feel like Jack actually. We thought we knew during 2seasons where this was going, then by the 3rd we wanted to have some form of conclusion (go home) and at the end of this season we were all wanting “to go back!”. The 4th season was a shocker because nothing went according to plan. The 5th season we didn’t knew where it was leading us anymore and we were tagging along hoping to find the answers and by the end of the season we were resolute we were coming to a conclusion, that it would all make sense after the bomb exploded. And now, we don’t know what to trust anymore and sick of it all we are ready to take the next bitter pill if we have to. But the writers seems to tell us: we won’t let you chock on a bitter pill… enjoy the tea.
@Carol: Dharma folks were not good guys. They did not follow the truce, they created the Arrow to think on how to get rid of the Others and they created the Tempest which was build to make poison (but used before them by Others).
The army intended to put an hydrogen bomb on Island so there were definitively not “nice”.
I won’t rule out the Jacob team yet… but I hope the stakes are very very high to allow them do such things (and I am still dumbfold by the “claimed” one on Jacob sides as I posted earlier).
Ok I am definitively a liar now (since I keep posting)… I hope that I will be “claimed” and granted Immortality or just the “insensivity” the Others seems to get: they keep getting hurt (Ben or Mihail who says “thank you” when thrown into a sonic fence) yet they don’t seems to suffer pain (and that’s why they tested that on Sayid I guess). Have we ever seen an Other “suffer”? They didn’t lost their Innocence… they lost their soul/heart and thus can’t feel pain. That is the purpose of Buddhism! Namaste!
Ben was the loophole because eventually he did got sick, he felt pain when they killed his daughter… and yet he was the leader: he was the loophole.
Waw… Damon Lindeloff when berseker on twitter!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S3LVyuVnOfI/AAAAAAAAxqA/G9wUfDrO1Bk/s1600-h/SS-2010.02.10-15.50.08.png
I totally understand that he says if you think this is filler go watch something else… I totally understand! That was not a filler at all and I don’t understand that someone could say that. I said why I am a bit dumbfold… I think they gave a lot in last episode and I am not sure I really want to go care about any size because the shape of things to come is really all about “let s go kill people” because we are right and they are wrong. I don’t like this philosophy. I always thought that being “good” didn’t meant killing “bad”.
Jorge Garcia blog is very funny (spoiler alert about what centic episode next week), it’s hilarious to see that they don’t know what is going on either.
I think from now on I will live by a Beatles song:
Speaking words of wisdome, let it be… there will be an answer! Let it be!
@ Carol from Boston: I timidly raise my hand as to the two Smokey theory.
Well, I just thought that if we think of Jacob and MIB as two similar entities – that perhaps if the MIB can transform into a grey pillar of Smoke; then perhaps Jacob can also manifest as a grey pillar of Smoke.
In fact why not think that these two entities have similar powers of transformation. Both can take the form of various dead people to use to try and out wit the other.
These would explain, as mentioned in my other post above, the various descriptions of Smokey.
Just a thought.
Not timidly enough, Coolpeace. Scan back to Harold, February 10th, 2010 at 1:04 pm.
Kudos to the few of you who get that Kates’ contribution to the storyline as a whole is NOT a waste of time — she is obviously an important thread linking Jack, Sawyer, and Claire — all shown in various levels in the last episode — I agree with Lindelof — show some respect for their writing, even if it feels lazy or trite — When I watched Avatar (as I’m sure the majority of you have), my thought was that THAT was lazy, simplistic, writing without any imagination (sure the images were amazing) — but I NEVER feel that way about LOST which always keeps me gripped — sure, I find certain characterers annoying too — as examples: in season one I could not stand Shannon (so happy that she was NOT on the plane this time ’round) and I never enjoyed Claire either (but now have to put up with her re-entrance) — anyhoo… it is more important what the characters bring to the whole, so since it is THEIR (CC & DL) story I am happy trust their choices.
Available on the last post-set, I caught the CC/DL appearance on the Jimmy Kimmel show after the season premiere — the comment that resonated most for me was their declaration that the MYSTERIES that will be ANSWERED by the final thud are the ones of concern (or importance) to the Losties themselves, and NOT necessarily to the audience at home.
I’ve enjoyed every minute of this show, and will continue to do so for years to come through DVDs. I love this blog, especially Ryan and Jen’s opening analysis each week, and reading all the brilliant catches and theories posted here. Thanx to all!!!
@Kait
Nice presentation. I especially enjoyed the heart list. Yes, we often focus on the creative power of the divine, but simultaneously this same power is actively taking the world apart again. Here in Cleveland, we have a prime example in statuary of Siva, the Hindu deity, that clearly illustrates this idea. As he is engaged in the cosmic dance, Siva uses two hands to shape the world while the other two wield destructive fire.
@Yann
I liked the idea of the rules governing how the two sides treat each other, sort of a metaphysical Geneva convention. However, if Rousseau and Claire were claimed by the darkness, wouldn’t this be a contradiction because they have both killed others? I think a better analogy for the book of laws would be the dstiction between samurai and ninja. One is bound by honor and service and the other is a self-interested mercenary.
Which leads me to my declaration of support. Team Jacob here. Maybe I’m just a loyalist like Mikhail or spent too much time in room 23, but I still see Jacob as the side of light. Even when the others start reverting to those persistent human flaws, this happens because Jacob allows them free reign to make their own choices. Plus, for as long as Ben’s been the leader, I believe the others have been deceived by Unkocke and have acted under his orders.
Defend the island!
@Welshie loves LOST! – I loved Deadwood and have been interested in its actors we’ve seen on Lost. With the way that show ended due to contract negotiations etc, we never got a satisfying ending. Hope that’s not one similiarly we don’t get here.
On the sonogram, Gregg Nations dashes the hopes of many theorists:
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=120299
@ Bonita in Atlanta- yeah, a little too complicated! I think the “game” theories would be the coolest outcome for this show.
I still think that the off island stories are meant to be surreal and non-realistic. All the off island stuff (to me) seems kind of dreamlike. Even though I also found Kate’s antics annoying, I’m hoping that this is a consistent plot device rather than lazy writing.
@Rich: I was going to ask you if you were down the rabbit hole. :p
Maybe they can kill people from the other team. Daniel never was claimed I think (and the rules don’t apply to those not claimed… that’s why they keep killing them or get killed by them). And maybe the loophole was that Ben had been claimed by MIB (maybe through Richard who didn’t knew he was on the wrong side) and yet was the leader of the Others and had the right to go see Jacob and that was a loophole.
The only real problem I got with this theory comes from Juliet who killed one of her side, but if she had been claimed by Richard (like Ben) who had been claimed by MIB then that would still fit. And Ben took the baby instead of killing her and thus she could be killed by Widmore’s team because in fact they are not on the same side (but Ben thought they were).
Or maybe… I am over thinking all this! :p
One thing for sure, Ben has been manipulated as a leader since he thought Jacob was in Jacob’s cabin while it had been taken by MIB a long time ago.
And of course if Ben has not been claimed by Jacob that explains the “what about you”.
Christian not helping Locke must have something to do with the “claiming” and him being in the Cabin with a guy that scared Hugo (and Damon and Carlton saying that we never saw Jacob before) let me really think that Claire/Christian/MIB are now on the same side.
Interesting to know that the date on the doppler photo was a continuity error
But it would be convenient if it was right, because it happens that the encounters between Claire and Ethan on and off Island would seem to occur at about the same time…
Could it be that Claire and Kate LA rampage was shot back at the time of season 1 ? Both look younger (at least Evangeline Lilly)… and Emily de Ravin seems definitely pregnant for real
Speaking of synchronicity
John moved the FDW bacvk on its axis only to move to 2007 Tunisia
and our 77 Losties blew the bomb in the EM swan dig only to find themselves in 2007
Cannot be just coincidental
By the way
Widmore tells Locke in the desert that there is a war coming
and Jacob says shorly after «They’re coming»
One last question
Has any of you thought that Sawyer might be headed down the Orchid? now that he finds no significant business to attend anymore on the Island
IT”S ALL IN THE COLOR OF THEIR EYES!!!!!
For a while many of us have noticed that our character’s eyes change colors. So it must be that at different times they are being controlled or ‘claimed’ by the 2 players…Jacob & MIB.
Does anyone know if there is a place you can see all the opening shots of eyes to compare? I know in some scenes the eyes appear black or almost black.
Also -I’m with you guys that there is another Smokie running around…and it’s gonna be white / light colored.