Next: “What Kate Does” (Episode 6-03)
Josh Holloway, you broke our hearts. Bravo. We had lowered expectations for this presumed “Kate episode,” and on most related points, we were right for having them. But for all the complaints we could readily recite from the cliché of Kate going after Sawyer actually being remarked upon to a largely flat and somewhat surreal off-island destraction — we did not hate “What Kate Does.” We both actually liked it.
And for Jen to say this about an episode with Kate’s name in the title, frankly, is no small feat for “LOST.”
On the character front, Sawyer’s crushing confession hit hard. We remarked last week that Josh Holloway’s descent into nihilism was a powerful turn, and our love for his talent only grew this week. Even saddled with on-the-nose lines like, “Do what you want with him, or anybody else,” he made us believe that this nearly redeemed man now had absolutely nothing to lose. And Dogen? Not since the introduction of creepy Benjamin Linus in Season Two have we been so confused yet simultaneously charmed by a new character. He’s mysterious and brooding, yet wry and funny… in a dignified way.
Jen thought Dogen’s pill presentation was very “Matrix.” And pointed out that Dogen’s leadership strategy, using a translator to add some distance between him and the people he leads, is something that Ben probably should have considered.
It’s a shame to think that this leader has to work with knuckleheads like Justin and (the now late) Aldo. But their two line debate over whether Jin is “one of them” or not was telling. The way Dogen was clearly concerned with Sawyer’s safe return, along with the recitation of names that Dogen called for when our losties were first brought to the temple, it’s obvious there’s something special about these specific people. Our people.
And on the mythology front, the reappearance of Claire before the final thud wasn’t even the most interesting clue. It was the diagnosis of poor Sayid, who’s not a zombie, but will possibly become one in due time. He, like Claire, has been “claimed,” and a darkness is growing within him. It seems that Claire is already lost to the dark side of the force, and the question is, who else has been so infected? The late Christian Shephard seems a good guess. These would be the agents of the Man In Black.
Claire did seem to be channeling a bit of Danielle Rousseau in her half second on screen, and she’s obviously been setting Rousseau-like traps. Also, the way Justin (or Aldo?) said Rosseau had been dead for a while seemed to suggest that perhaps our crazy Frenchwoman had a share of darkness within her as well. On the other hand, out of everyone on the island, she seemed most wary of “the sickness,” and the similarity between Sayid’s torture test and Rosseau’s car battery interrogation in Season 1 is obvious. I’m going to say Rosseau managed to steer clear of infection, just not of bullets.
One thing that stood out this week? Our friends at the temple seem to be big on free will and choice. After more than one physical scuffle with Jack, the burly guards obediently step aside when he finally decides he wants to talk to Dogen. And Dogen said Sayid had to take the pill — the poison pill — willingly. Indeed, the way Dogen asks Sawyer to stay, coupled with the way Hurley was told the alarm wasn’t to keep them locked in, suggests that our losties aren’t entirely the prisoners they think they are.
And what of the off-island storyline? There’s no doubt Kate had several moments of deja vu, from spotting Jack at the airport, to pulling the stuffed orca out of Claire’s backpack (the same whale that Aaron clutched in “Something Nice Back Home”), to hearing Aaron’s name. A name that even surprised Claire. So we get that there are links between the world where Oceanic 815 crashed and the world where it didn’t. But honestly it still seems like a distraction, a writers’ flight of “what if” fancy, particularly when the story we all thought we were following is still unfolding on the island. Sure, it was awesome to see Ethan again (talking about needles, no less), but we didn’t even see Unlocke, Alpert, Ben and friends this week. I can only hope to be wonderfully surprised with a big payoff further down the line.
- The zombie conversation was hilarious. But Miles topped it with, “We’ll be in the food court if you need us.”
- Dogen’s dry answers to Jack were great. “What’s that?” “A baseball.” “What’s this?” “Tea.” Reminiscent of Alpert’s explanation of a compass to Locke: “It points north, John.”
- Doc Arzt pulls the
“Taxi Driver”“Midnight Cowboy” line, “I’m walkin’ here!” Just like Sawyer did when Christian hits him with the car door in “Two for the Road.” - In contrast, Kate had some real clunkers. Her astonished lines with Sawyer in the temple as they looked at Sayid were, it seemed, practically a re-run of the same astonished conversation in the same dark corner as last week.
- So is this the end of the Kate-Sawyer side of the love triangle? I hope so. I’m not sure if I can take another go ’round. There definitely seemed to be some heat on the Kate-Jack side. I don’t care who Kate chooses. I just want her to choose and be done with it.
- It’s great to see Jin speaking English. And his desperate search for Sun is understandable. But they’ve been kept apart so long, I’m starting to forgetting the chemistry they had, and I’m afraid their reunification will be less Rose and Bernard and more “Waaalt!”
- Locations: Honolulu International Airport (LAX), Koapaka Street (where Kate left, then came back for, Claire), Hawaii Medical Center West (where Kate took Claire) and a home in Kahala (Claire’s would-be adoptive parents’ home).
What did you think of “What Kate Does”? right now! Commenting below is the best way to submit feedback, so you can share your thoughts with fellow listeners immediately. You can also e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LOSTline at (815) 310-0808. We love hearing from you.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:10 am
3 thoughts:
1- Kate centric episode! Please God (Damon and Carlton!) make it good! Let poor Kate have a nice centric episode for once and for all!
2- Last episode we did not notice (another) religion symbolism: Baptism!!!! What they did to Sayid was a baptism! They do it in the healing pool… That’s why everyone that comes from there is “different” because they are born again (Rouseau’s team, Ben, etc…)
3- I was thinking about Richard’s “You?” when he met Locke. What if he just realized at that moment that the “Jacob” he met when he was in chains was in fact Unlocke? If MIB can take whatever appearence maybe he took Jacob’s appearence in the past…
Kate! Don’t disappoint us!
February 9th, 2010 at 10:23 am
ooooooh yaaaann….
WHy do you expect great things from tonights episode. On island, I know it will rock.
Off island I imagine it will be Kate running around with Claire. Kate will commit crimes and such and Claire will be like “Golly Gee! I don’t wanna have me baby like this!!!”
February 9th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
LOL This episode is called What Kate Does?
Oh man that is awesome!
What a call back.
So we can safely assume this is a Kate centric episode, but what does ‘centric’ even mean now with the two literary mechanisms?
Well I guess in 3 hours well find out!
LOVE YOU RYAN AND JEN!!!
-Knives
February 9th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
It’s way to early in the season to lose momentum so I pray that it’s a decent episode. However, I was never all that thrilled with Kate’s motivation for returning to the island. They built it up as if something really monumental would have had to have happened to make her change her mind. She loses Aaaron in the grocery store for a minute and this convinces her to orphan him and go on what she previously thought was a wild goose chase? Still, this episode could really pay off if Claire appears in a flashback with greater explanation of the need to come back or if we find out about Claire’s, and by extension Christian’s, ghostly status.
I was listening to some Jakob Dylan today and a line really reminded me of all the discussion about the true nature of smokey/MIB.
“This genie’s too angry
to go back into the bottle again.”
This “who” is an angelic entity (rather than an alien) who has been imprisoned on the island in one way or another for a very long time. Someone in the earlier thread talked about Lucifer seeking to regain the bliss of heaven and that this may be the “home” MIB refers to. One last note about fallen angels: James Joyce described the sin of Satan by the statement “I will not serve.” That’s how smokey can argue to Bram and company that he has set them free, because service equals slavery.
@Yann
I can barely remember everything I’ve posted on here let alone all the other great theories. I called what happened to Sayid, “baptism by drowning.” Other baptisms include Claire’s, Charlie’s leap into the pool, Hurley’s cannonball,etc.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
Oh Fid! I agree. Katy again? Frecklemania? I hope it’s not the case, but Jesse sums up my expectations in LOL fashion. WHO are the people that enjoy Kate and her antics? C’mon, if you’re there, fess up! Please tell the rest of us what we’re missing?
Can’t wait in any case. All the old episodes I have disparaged, I now love, so……..
February 9th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
@Rich in Cleveland- re: Kate’s ‘motivation(s)’. W E A K
February 9th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Is there Patsy Kline music in the alternate universe?
February 9th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Kate centric episodes have widely been considered some of the show’s weakest. I’m hoping that with her last centric episode, the writers do well for Kate. Kate is hated on far too much in my opinion. She remains a central character to the story.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
I can understand why Kate is hated in the first 4 seasons, but I thought in season 5 she’s redeemed herself.
I can say right now I’m pro Kate, but I hope this episode doesnt fail. I have no idea why it would!
Please give me some answers!!!!!!
February 9th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
HFC!!! Kate redeemed in Season 5? Now my head REALLY hurts!
February 9th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
I’m glad they’re getting the Kate ep out of the way early and hoping it’s the only one this season.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
@docjkm.
imho, Kate was redeemed in season 5 as far as her debauchery and shenanigans, and Whatever Happened, Happened was really strong.
Her motives changed when she raised Aaron.
alot can happen in 3 years, and I think Kate really matured.
well see ‘what kate does’ tonight =)
February 9th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
I’m hoping that in the island scenario Kate will be able to get Sawyer under control and help calm his anger. Despite his love for Juliet, Kate and Sawyer have a history and perhaps she can help him get in control of his emotions.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
I’m also hoping for a good Kate yarn.
But something from last episode has me wondering. Why did the other others have to take off Sayid’s Dharma jumpsuit when they were putting him in the pool? I mean, the temple leader specifically said – remove the jump suit. Not remove his clothes (ok, yes it’s TV…) but it seems just the jumpsuit needed to be gone before entering the murky waters. I’m wondering if that’s significant. It was ok to leave on his dirty, bloody dark duds.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
OK Claire was infected but who brought her to the temple? Christian? Or is Christian on the Island just Smokie? Can an infected person be healed by Jacob?
February 9th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
What a strange episode. Claire is back and with a vengeance!
And god help me but how amazing is Josh Holloway now? When did this guy learn to act so incredibly well? This version of Sawyer is just magnificent to watch; not fun to watch, but so raw and real. What a journey for that character.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
I don’t even care about asking questions. We’re getting answers…
It’ll come!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
CLAIRE IS ALIVE!!!!!!
Oh and Sayid is Sayid!!! WOOT!!!
^_^
February 9th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
2 words….
CLAIRE
and
ETHAN!
February 9th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
What a great episode! So, clearly Sayid isn’t some new incarnation of Jacob, but is instead “claimed” by the dark force on the island — like Claire and Christian.
The Kate-Claire bit in the alternate storyline was nice, but I didn’t think all that interesting or revelatory. Although, I called out loud when the doctor turned around and it was Ethan!
Can’t wait for next week!
February 9th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
This episode wasn’t good at all
February 9th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Wow. Claire looking a lot like Rousseau in that last scene. Everything is repeating it self but differently in some sort of way. And was that a real tear coming from Sawyer’s eye… cause i know it was a real one coming from mine.
Is it next Tuesday yet?
February 9th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
It’s Aldo! I remembered! :p
Claire’s been “infected” and turned evil? Makes sense. What earlier seemed a crackpot theory- that Claire died when her house at the Barracks exploded in season 4- seems to be true. Like Sayid, she came back to life but she came back “wrong…” And Smokey/Man-in-Black/Anti-Jacob/UnLocke/Christian Shephard came and took her away? Wow.
Anyone else notice that whenever an Other is about to shoot a main character they’re always gunned down by someone surprising?
February 9th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
OMGWTFBBQ! Claire = Rousseau?!?
February 9th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Well, we all expected this to be a Kate centric episode and in many ways it was, but more importantly it was a Claire centric episode. This episode takes me back to the sickness that infected all of Danielle’s fellow crew members. suspect whatever that was is what has happened to Sayid and also, we learn to Claire. What does it mean to be “claimed?” It seems that the MIB has a means to “claim” people over to his side and this scares the temple guardians a lot, to the degree that they are willing to poison anyone who they suspect is “claimed.” Since we last saw Claire as she walked away with Christian and then later in the cabin with Christian, I suspect that Christian is also a manifestation of the MIB. It looks like much of what we’ll be seeing in the upcoming weeks is each side (Jacob and MIB) claiming their forces for the ultimate battle. So, for me, the most important thing to come out of this episode is the question, “what does it mean when you are claimed?”
February 9th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Also, looks like Claire’s been setting traps a lot like Rousseau. Was Rousseau maybe “infected” at some point as well? Hmmm…
Also, nice to see the Others finally referring to Smokie out in the open. “A big pillar of black smoke that makes a ticca-ticca-ticca noise?” Sounds silly when they put it like that.
This island is seeming less and less safe the more we learn.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Well, let the bashing of the makeup team over Claire’s hair begin
Excellent episode! Although I’m going to have to watch it again before I can formulate any thoughts.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Claire, Ethan….and she wants to name the baby Aaron. And if that wasn’t enough, Sayid is “claimed” by whatever possessed the rest of the French team back in the 80s.
That being said, Sayid has the sickness. Claire has the sickess. Claire was with Christian. What does that mean for Christian? Assuming the sickness has soemthing to do w/ Man IN Locke, does Christian have it and is he associated with it?
Lots to think about
February 9th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
I really don’t know what to think about this episode. At first glance, I’m not sure how much, or if I liked the episode. Seemingly good reveals, more questions. I don’t want to think about anymore questions. Ok, yeah i do.
I think I need to re-watch this episode.
brain hurts.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Hi Ryan and Jen,
Just finished the eppy, and oh wow things are starting to make a little sense now. At first I really thought that Jacob could be the bad guy, but apparently not. Christian, Claire and now possibly Sayid are taken over by the dark man. Guess the only way he will be able to go home is to get his own army to fight Jacob, and he intends to do that with the Oceanic 6. Kate and Sawyer both are in a very bad place right now, should have never left the temple, but thats only makes really good tv. No wonder when Claire appeared to Kate, she told her not to bring Arron back to the island. That was the spirit of Claire, but her dead body like Locke and Christian has been taken over. Sayid is also dead and is about to be taken over, hope he eats the pill soon.
So the writers always said that the actors were not in purguratory, but I think that what is being shown is that dead is dead, but your spirit may not continue on to the next plane. Hense the whispers (which are the voices of the dead helping) and the dead bodies can be used by the bad black shirt guy as he sees fit.
Looking forward to your podcast and Kudos to seeing you both mentioned on NightLine, that was great
Sandy
February 9th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Can’t say I loved this episode. Quite the opposite, but Kate is the worst character in the series (yes, worse than Nikki/Paulo) and suffers from the worst writing ever. What else was to be expected? I can only hope this was officially the last Kate episode.
A lot of immediate online reaction is calling this episode “filler” but I disagree. Any Kate episode – that airs right after the premiere – was bound to be a slowdown. But there were still some great reveals. I still think seeing what happens off-island is interesting – Ethan Goodspeed? As Claire’s doctor, who doesn’t want to stick needles in her? Niiice.
It seems we’re finally going to see Claire on-island again, and if we needed a slower crap Kate episode to build up to that, then so be it. And Sayid and Claire are officially on the “dark” side? LOVE. Those are two characters the writers never seemed to know what to do with, and it looks like they’re going to get some great stuff.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
Slight revision to my earlier post –
Should have been “Claire = The New Rousseau?!?”
I didn’t intend to suggest that things changed to the point where Claire was always Rousseau….
February 9th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Claire is just like Rousseau. They both came to the island very pregnant, they both had their babies on the island, and they both traipsed around the island avoiding everybody else.
Not sure about Sayid. Perhaps the “infection” has to do with the possession of their bodies, like MIB/Locke, and the treatment exorcises it. But, did he fail the test because he still is Sayid, or did he fail the test because he is somebody/something else? Too soon to be sure.
I think that the time lines will eventually come together. Clues like Claire calling for Aaron and the familiarity between Claire and Kate and other instances were obvious.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
I guess it’s true… it’s hard to make a Kate episode great. It’s a shame really given that I really like Evie. But this episode was predictable at best. Boring at it’s worst. I’m just thankful that they got it out of the way early in the season. Next week’s *****-centric should be much, much better. Whew. I can’t wait for the tipping point where the flash-sideways end because they are far too predictable. I know, I know, it will all converge eventually but for now, if you’ ve been watching the show, it’s like reading the script as you go. And the Island scenes are just as cryptic as ever. But we still haven’t seen some of the scenes from the preview a couple days before the season started which gives me a lot of hope for next week.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
@Dave in AL – Personally I think Sayid failed the test because he is somebody/something else. Evidently he is not human any longer. From the looks of it, they tried to burn the hair off his chest (didn’t work), and then they stuck him with a hot iron (left no burns or marks that I could see). So evidently they are figuring he is not a normal human any more.
Just my thoughts anyway.
Lyle
February 9th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Kate centric weak!
Claire turns Rousseau on us!
Josh Holloway rocks!
ETHAN!
Zombie Sayid?
THE INFECTION!
I thought it was weak, but maybe because following ”LA X” could only be kind of a let down.
THE TRANSMISSION rules!
February 9th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
With the timelines being split by 3 years, I’m starting to wonder if there will ever be a reconciliation. The producers and writers have established two legitimate timelines. I’m starting to think that it’s possible that we will see two resolutions — one will be on-island in 2007, and one will be off-island in 2004.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
We are have lots of questions to be answered – and they are raising more questions!! The Claire/Danielle resemblance is too eerie… Sayid is claimed by what – the Smoke Monster or does he have the sickness that Danielle’s people have – are they the same thing?
Seeing Ethan was bizarre too…. I thought for sure Claire would freak out when she saw him! What did he say his name was – Godspeed? I think that was another’s “other”s name….
February 9th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Sobaika – I have to disagree. I admit I have never been a big Kate fan and part of that is influenced by the fact that Evengeline Lilly has never hidden her dislike for Hawaii and Oahu in particular, my favorite Hawaiian island and my second home. That being said I think that the writers did well by Kate in this episode. She was forceful when she needed to be forceful and compassionate when she needed to be compassionate. She showed wonderful sensitivity for Sawyer and his grief and for Claire in the alternate timeline. Still, I think that Kate was not really the character we should focus on for this episode. This was much more about Sayid, Claire and Jack and where this will take them in the remaining episodes.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Ethan Rom is actually Ethan Goodspeed. Son of Horace Goodspeed?
February 9th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
@Lynn — Yep!
February 9th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
An observation – may not mean anything but…….
Did anyone else happen to notice that in the scene where they were going through customs (or at least I think that is where they were at), Kate and the sheriff were still together, even though it was after Kate supposedly broke free in the bathroom? Do you suppose this was just a cutting room error in the order the scenes were shown in, or could it mean something?
Lyle
February 9th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
@ Pete From Rockford
“OMGWTFBBQ! Claire = Rousseau?!?”
Word, homie.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
I thought this was an excellent episode. I was a bit nervous going into it, knowing it was Kate-centric, but thought this was done very well. The whole episode and the characters, especially Kate, had a very season-one vibe about them. I was so relieve that Kate was back to being bad-ass, and that she didn’t follow Sawyer for romantic reasons. She really wants to find Claire.
I’ve already started seeing “filler” complaints on other blogs and sites and I have to really disagree. I thought this episode got back to the characters in a way a lot of us have been hoping for since last season. So much happens so fast in these episode, it was nice to see character moments, characters talking about what was going on, and still being entertaining and having some mythology included (eg infection, island Claire)
Sawyer, Jack and Kate all had tremendous character moments in this episode. Sawyer’s moments in New (or I guess it is Old) Otherton, Kate in the jungle and off-Island with Claire, and Jack taking charge and asking real questions.
A couple of random things I noticed:
1. The musical themes appear to be different in the off-island stories. Kate had a different theme. I though this was pretty cool.
2. When Sayid was on-screen, the musical theme seemed very similar to the Smocke theme from LA X. Very telling.
3. Kate noticing Jack at the airport was a bit freaky. Then later on, she seemed to recognize the name Aaron in the hospital. Very interesting.
Anyway, I really liked this episode and am enjoying how this season is progressing so far. As always, I love your podcast and everything you do for the fan community. I hope you enjoy the episode as well.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Well, at least we got the Kate episode over with. Sigh. What a waste of one of the final hours. I am hoping now that Kate will at least leave Sawyer alone.
Holloway rocked it tho.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Wrote an email earlier but I forgot to add that I love the line Miles throws to Jack when he wants to talk to Sayid along..”We’ll be in the Food Court”…ROFLMAO
February 9th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
@ Lyle — If you’re referring to “LA X” Part 2, here’s a link to the “Bloopers and Continuity Errors” part of the episode’s Lostpedia entry.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/LA_X#Bloopers_and_continuity_errors
February 9th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Is Claire the new french woman??
She sets traps and carries a gun and lives in the woods.
Also she lost her kid as a baby like the French woman
February 9th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
@ John Fisher – I guess we have differing opinions. I think she’s the most useless character to ever grace the island and this episode was no different. She followed Sawyer when he explicitly told her not to, had a chat with him (Holloway brought a tear to my eye), and then went back. Is that complex character stuff? Not for me.
I still find the off-island story compelling, but more because Claire’s story and the nice Ethan surprise. My interest in the on-island story was for Sayid and Sawyer. I will be happy if Kate dies before the end of the series.
Incidently, I have next to no opinion on Evangeline Lilly. Maybe due in part to her acting, but mostly due to writing (IMO), her character simply sucks.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
It terms of this being a kate episode, it was average for what those are expected to be, but everything cast aside from the “Kate stuff” was pretty on par with the premiere. I love the whole Jack-Sayid-Dogen angle they’re working, and the short-lived return of “Aldo” from season 3 was a treat
i think the best line of this season so far is “You know the thing that goes Tickity Tickity when it gets pissed off!” i couldn’t help but smile
Claire back?!!?!? They just had to throw that at the end of the episode didn’t they. I did like that they mentioned claire before her return tho, because her just showing up would’ve causeddd too much confusion. If she’s been infected that’s cool, but, at least from the way she looked at Jin, i feel she’s not as “infected” as Robert and crew were last season.
All in all it was good, and if Josh Holloway doesn’t get an emmy, than no one else deserves one, he was fantastic.
oh and is it me or did Sayid sound distinctly different throughout the episode.???
February 9th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
I’m interested in the connections people are making between Rousseau and Claire. Clearly Claire looks and is acting much like Danielle aka the traps in the jungle, the guns, the look etc. Since we were told that Claire has been “claimed” are we now to believe that Rousseau was “claimed?” Was it Rousseau that was infected with the sickness and not the others in her crew whom she killed? Someday I’ll have to go back and watch all of those earlier episodes with Rousseau and see if her actions seem to be guided by the MIB.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Just coming off of it – I feel a little flat. Last week was such a huge JOLT – I guess anything would have fallen a little flat, but I didn’t expect that much of a difference. It seems a shame to me that probably the only Kate episode we’re going to get for the rest of the series showed zero real character growth. She does the right thing – but it still boils down to her doing one right thing because she’s running from another right thing to do. I touted for hours before this ep (and weeks ago) that somehow I hoped we’d all find a way to love Kate in the end. It seems much less likely now, unless her on island story REALLY goes somewhere.
Seeing Claire was interesting – seeing Ethan GOODSPEED was interesting. Seeing Aldo was even interesting. Just about everything except for who the story was centric.
One moment with Kate I did love was with Sawyer on the dock. I admit to putting my head down in emotion during that scene. Kudos to Josh and Evie (and of course Giacchino) on that one IMHO.
Answers: I’m proud to say that I’ve been right all along (as I’m sure many have as well as me) that the illness we’ve been hearing about is a influence/infection – “claimed” seems to be directly related to MIB/Smokey – which is what I’ve been saying to folks for several seasons- and on our podcast from it’s beginning (S5).
Can’t wait to hear your thoughts Ryan and Jen this weekend!
Mahalo
Matt
February 9th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
@Pete from Rockford – Yeah, I was referring to “LA X Part 2″, sorry. I had just rewatched that before the new episode and I guess my mind was rolling through both eppys at the same time. And you are correct, the lostpedia link you included does explain it very well.
Lyle
February 9th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
One thing I noticed about the last podcast- Talking about Desmond possible working for Widmore, wouldn’t Widmore be dead? He was on the Island in ‘77. If the bomb sank (exploded?) the island in that timeline, then Widmore would’ve gone with it. That means no Penny either… I’m confused.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
John,
Rousseau was never claimed. And she died by gunshot by the people on the freighter. I think Claire looks allot like Rousseau because the black shirt guy wants her to look that way, alive (which she is not) and living in the jungle
Sandy
February 9th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
One other quick note – with or without island influence – the X timeline seems to be proving to us that these lives are meant to intertwine – a destiny found – no matter what the circumstances. Very explicitly demonstrated in this ep (perhaps the biggest point of the whole episode) is how even the same circumstance brings certain people together. Ethan is the true marker in all of that!
Thanks again,
Matt
February 9th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
@Lyle — no problem. I had been researching Part 2 of “LA X” earlier today and recalled reading that, so I was pretty sure that was where you were coming from. It definitely flows better as one episode.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Great to see Ethan, a fellow Louisvillian, back in the show. My “Paradise Lost” theory is losing its connective tissue, while the “ancient civilization” tease Darlton once uttered seems to be more and more plausible with the mix of Egyption and Mayan architecture and symbology.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
I’m a little surprised that nobody has mentioned the line about Rousseau being dead for years. Is it just that the Others thought she was dead or is this yet another alternate reality?
February 9th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
V is stealing LOST characters! I saw Bernard and Alex in addition to Juliet in a commercial.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
This may be premature, but Josh Holloway for the Drama Emmy!
February 9th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Christian Shephards’ body was dropped off on the island anyway…fly by!
February 9th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
The complete lack of any kind of appropriate response from the people dealing with Kate off the island made this episode nearly unwatchable for me. Let’s recap:
1. Kate puts a gun to the Taxi driver’s head and forces him to leave the airport against his will, while Claire watches in horror.
2. Kate puts a gun to Claire’s head when she tried to get out, basically kidnapping her.
3. Kate dumps Claire on the side of the road with no purse and no luggage, basically leaving her to die for all she knows.
4. Kate convinces a mechanic (again at gunpoint) to take her handcuffs off, and he happily obliges, smiling and giggling like a moron, not at all concerned that she admits she is wanted for murder.
5. Kate returns to Claire, gives her her stuff back, and Claire forgives her completely and accepts a ride (!!) to the foster parents, then asks Kate to accompany her inside (!!!). What the HELL?! Are we really supposed to believe them being BFF after Kate put a gun to her head and kidnapped her not an hour ago?? Claire holding Kate’s hand in the hospital and then giving her her credit card (!!!!)… I was just speechless.
I don’t care what Darlton says, this HAS to be an alternate universe because NO ONE can suspend their belief enough to think that series of events is remotely possible in the real world! Just horrible, horrible writing. It’s almost as if no one watched the show before it went to air.
Man, I am so frustrated. Based on my expectations and the fact that this is Season 6, this episode may well be the worst of the entire series.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
It was interesting to see Kate look back somewhat mystified at Jack and light up when she heard Claire name her baby Aaron at the hospital. Like Kate and Jack, I have a feeling we’re going to continue to see other flash-sideways characters have similar deja vu moments in future episodes.
Also, this is just a theory but maybe it’s only going to be the people who Jacob touched who will have deja vu moments because Jacob’s touch gave them the ability to recall some memories from previous timelines. Since a lot of fans don’t want a full “reset”, this could be a way to reset the timeline but still let the characters we know and love from S1-S5 (and maybe the on-island parts of S6) live on.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
So, wasn’t the ring Sawyer threw into the water when explaining to Kate that he was going to ask Juliet to marry him the same ring that Desmond was going to give Penny, but also threw into the water?
The parallels of action that are attributed to different characters are really mounting up. Remember the big theme of twinning from earlier seasons – it’s back!
February 9th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
Josh Holloway really showed something in the episode. He’s got great range, because I can love him one moment and hate him in a second later. Last night, I really felt his heart breaking. Forget Ben and Locke, get Sawyer an Emmy.
I always thought that the Sawyer’s character never got a fair break in life. It the events at the BRIG for him to puke up all the things that were foul in his life was really symbolic to me. Once he got revenge on the real Sawyer, James Ford was now ready to move forward as a decent human being. Juliet was there to find a solid person in James. Now, the little boy that was robbed in the worst way, suffers another loss. Very sad.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
Hey Ryan and Jen!
Thank you for an unforgettable one of kind weekend!
Just a few thoughts on this weeks episode! This episode made me realize that I think I was expecting too much too soon from this season! Not that it wasn’t a good episode, but the story seemed to move at a slower pace than the premiere!! I know it was a chance for us to “get to know” Doogan and Lennon, but even their character arcs seemed a little off. I guess time and patience will tell!
Seeing Aldo be the comic relief for this episode was awesome!
The scene at the dock did its job and had tears run down my cheek! It will be interesting to see where Sawyer’s character goes from here. I think at this point he has nothing to loose and I think he just might join “Smokey’s recruiting service”. We still don’t know what “Smocke” means by “I want to go home”, but this might be the end of the “hero Sawyer” we came to know and love in season 5! It is heartbreaking to see Sawyer being broken down like this, making him very vulnerable! We will see how strong he really is and if he will make it through this!
It was AWESOME to see Claire again!! She is still the same unconfident person we knew from season 1, I am hoping that will change throughout the season!
Can’t wait to here your thoughts!
-Jonine from Az
February 9th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
Have we all been overlooking how Rousseau was able to deliver her baby and live to roam the island when no other woman can survive child birth for all this time? Has the MiB been using Rousseau’s body from the beginning?
Also it was interesting to see Kate and Claire both having flickers of the other reality when they spontaneously both recalled the baby’s name being ‘Aaron’ when the baby’s heartbeat stopped.
Interestingly it fits with a theory I read this week whereby for the two realities to meet and relationships/memories to be reformed, one of the people in the two realities has to die. Perhaps this is leading to Sawyers death on island and a reunion with Juliete off island. Which is interesting as it could mean that it works both ways ………
February 9th, 2010 at 7:43 pm
All I will say is Josh Holloway is delivering a outstanding performance every single episode.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Hey Ryan and Jen,
Here were are my thoughts on the episode, which I also posted on YuBlog.
Finally got finished with the episode via DVR. I just skimmed through the comments.
Still not sure what to think of this episode. Some good reveals, though seemingly not enough. Seems like a bridge episode. Not really filler, but I guess in the wake of last week, this episode was bound to seem tamer unless they continued the same pace as last week.
Just some thoughts/comments that I had as the episode progressed:
-Totally missed last week that the cab driver was the “puppet master/ marionette guy” from Heroes.
-Arzt being Arzt. First time he’s appeared more than once in one season.
-Sawyer totally has nothing to lose now.
-Hey! It’s Mac from Always Sunny!! Where’s Charlie?? Haha.
-Is the mechanic the guy who played Dodger in China Beach?
-Didn’t Aaron have that same killer whale back when he was living with Kate?
-This is the Zombie season, haha.
-Snap! Jin giving it to Kate as to her intentions.
-So is the identity of the husband who ran out on the wife important or no?
-Looks like there are definite linkages b/w flashsideways and the way thing were originally. Kate’s gonna be there for Claire for Aaron’s birth as well.
-Uh, okay is that Jack’s Hospital? Jack’s a surgeon, not an ER doc or OB-Gyn.
-5 bucks says Juliet is Claire’s OB-Gyn.
-Holy shit, it’s Ethan!!!
-Sawyer throwing the ring = Maverick tossing Goose’s dog tags
-Mac’s getting really annoying now.
-CLAIRE???
Not sure what to think about this sickness thing. Am guessing it’s Man-In-Locke related. But part of me thinks otherwise. Is Claire the new Danielle? Were Claire and Danielle infected by some outside entity or did they get tossed into the pool and were infected that way? I’m confused.
Jin seems to have bad luck running into weird, creepy, crazy-looking native-ish people. First it was the Tailies in Season 2, then Crazy Danielle after the flash last season, and now Claire. Can’t the island give him a break? He’s just trying to find his wife and daughter. If anything happens to him and Sun and/or Hurley, I’ll be royally pissed.
Ditto with Kate ending up with Sawyer. Sawyer’s too good for her. If I were Sawyer, I’d dig up Juliet and toss her into the pool, blackness creeping inside be damned, rather than shack up with Kate.
That’s all my thoughts so far. Will definitely have to watch this one again.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
@Chris, concerning Rousseau — Unless I’m mistaken in my chronology, Rousseau was killed three years prior to the current events on tonight’s episode. It was before the Oceanic Six left the island and all that, when the mercenaries from Widmore’s boat came for Ben.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
First thoughts:
Did anyone else groan when Kate took out after Sawyer? Come on! Not again! How many times is that scenario going to play itself out?
There is definitely something up with the people in the LA X timeline remembering or getting flashes from the Island timeline. Claire blurting out Aaron’s name and Kate’s reaction the all the baby stuff in Claire’s bag being the most prominent examples in this episode.
Ethan Goodspeed! I wonder where Amy and Horace are?
The “infection” has got to be the same one that took Rousseau’s friends.
Why would Dogen and the Others even try to save Sayid if there was a possibility (and I would say probability) that he would become infected. Something hinkey here. It is still unclear who are the good guys, the bad guys and who is telling the truth.
Answer to question ratio is still quite low for my liking.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
Other than Josh’s acting, this episode left me cold. Really? We have limited hours left and this is the best they could do? I’m not loving the flash sideays and have a hunch other things will get rushed or missed to make room for this unnecessary Kate-centric episode. Bummed, but I’m hopeful this is the only clunker this season.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
I’m getting a little fed up with the asking someone to do something, having them refuse, but then never explain why they should do it, a la Dogen and Sawyer.
Jack does a decent job not spending the ENTIRE episode sucking, but asks a few questions. At least we get the message that Sayid is turning, just as Claire did.
When we first saw Claire, I was struck by how much she seemed like Rousseau. Then I wondered if maybe Rousseau died or got sick too, and then turned “dark.” Aldo tells Kate Rousseau has been dead for years. And I’ve always believed that Claire died. So people die, then if they’re not properly cleansed in the Temple, they go “dark?” And then they appear alive, but are reanimated by the other side? I can only assume that other side is Smokey/Flocke, since the Priestly Others seem very upset that Jacob is dead. Perhaps anyone who dies on the island now that Jacob is dead will for sure become “claimed” and turn “dark.” Maybe that’s why it was important to keep Sayid alive, but then he died and came back incorrectly.
Then I remembered that the first time Rousseau found Sayid back in Season 1, she captured and tortured him with…electricity. She was testing for something, too. It all seems to come to a very confusing full circle.
Additionally, I’m guessing Christian Shephard has been “claimed” by whatever dark force there is. He was always acting to make Locke get into position. So perhaps if bodies aren’t properly cleansed, they reanimate for the “dark” side.
I wonder what this all means for Ben. Did they cleanse him in time? Did they perhaps just slow his turn to the “dark?” Because then he gets cancer and gets really murdery.
I guess when people become Others, they get a new last name! I always wondered why Ethan went by Ethan Rom instead of what his real last name must be – Goodspeed. But apparently he never becomes an other and instead lives in LA and goes by his real birth name of Goodspeed.
But I’m still weirded out by the story line in LA. One of these story lines must eventually end. They cannot both be at the same time. The LA story is very wrong. People still end up together and still end up as the “should be.” Claire was told she had to raise her baby, and magically her adoptive couple is split and can’t take the baby. I think that story line must be the fake one.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:26 pm
@Connie — Yes, I definitely felt let down by Kate chasing off after Sawyer. I hate to say it because I really like Evangeline Lilly, but Kate has become one my least favorite characters on the show — so predictable and cliched.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Anyone else notice the date on the ultrasound? Its a Month after the original flight crashed. 9/22/04 was flight 815, yet the ultrasound was done on 10/22/04. Could explain why Desmond was on the Flight…
February 9th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
Could it be that on the island when you are dead, you no longer need or use your body and the “darkness” is another way for the island to use the body since its vacant? Kinda like Island Zombies (Hurly’s line was awesome to Sayid about being a Zombie)
February 9th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
Well, they got crying figured out. Lady at the door who turned down taking the baby. Geez, she was a wreck. And of course, Sawyer, he can sure pull it off well.
Fun ride and Clair has gone all outback on us…. great show…
February 9th, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Gotta love Justin, the Other with the blabber mouth. I wish Aldo hadn’t quit shushing him up!
February 9th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
@Spalz: Damn you’ve got a good eye. The date on the printout of Claire’s Sonogram is indeed 10-22-2004, 09:29:42AM.
I uploaded a screenshot of the printout in question: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafc378/4345765398/sizes/o/
February 9th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
I love LOST, I loved this episode and I love the character of Kate. I am on the same page as brermike’s post.
The reason I have always loved this show is because most of the characters are so flawed, yet layered with good intentions. Probably the character of Desmond is the most “all-around” good.
Kate is taking quite a bashing here. I believe her character is heroic because she tried to make her mother’s life better. She was always there for Claire (and still is). And she has helped Jack numerous times.
But yes she is flawed like the majority of the characters are, and she is still finding her way as the majority of characters still are. She is selfish, but so are all the Losties. I think she dearly cares about Sawyer and is deeply touched by his loss. I think Jin’s question to her about who she “cares about” will push her in the right direction.
Interesting re: all the raves about Holloway’s acting. I adore his character and find him absolutely drool-worthy, but have mostly considered his acting to be a weak link in the show. My husband often jokes about his limited two expressions of “smirky” and “pissed.” He has improved greatly though, and tonight’s scene at the dock was indeed impressive.
@ Jon from NC — yes, Sayid has way less of an Iraqi accent
@ Chris in Durham NC — I think it is realistic for people to make impulsive, trusting, and even foolish choices… just watch the news
Lennon actor is from a great and quirky movie called “Me and You and Everyone We know” (or close to that title)
I think the season is off to a great start, and I am loving the ride!
February 9th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
For those without a Flickr account, here’s another upload of the Sonogram printout: http://web11.twitpic.com/img/64426854-4c450de9298741904bcc32ef8560d033.4b7263d2-scaled.jpg
February 9th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
I’m really surprised there is such a level of nonchalance from some fans over this episode. I can understand that on the surface this episode might have felt slow but it was chockablock with subtle oddities and questions that have got my head spinning to the possibilities of where this show is going.
Ryan & Jen, I’ve not left any comments before tonight but have been listening to your podcast from the very beginning. So let me take this chance to say, ‘Thank you for all your time, hard work & enthusiasm. It has been infectious and an important part of my lost experience.’
February 9th, 2010 at 11:07 pm
Well I’ve caught up on reading every comment. And I have something I may regret saying, but tough.
I am not completely digging this FLASHSIDEWAYS thing.
How it pans out will show if it is was worth half the episode time for this final season, and i still have faith in the tremendously talented writers and performers.
Literary, I’m not fond of introducing new characters (temple folk) and have them be liars, then anything and everything our cryptic Temple folk are saying is RUBBISH. If these characters are cryptic tip toeing liars then why are our characters with them.. This is really frustrating me.
Granted I love how much story time Sayid is getting, I hate how Jacob (the ’supposed’ angel/protector/savior of the island) told Hugo to take Sayid to the temple, as they do, they say they failed, wait he’s alive much to their shigrin, they torture/test him (lie to him again) why torture him, and then try to poison him? This just seems WAY to inconsistent.
And, as MUCH as it pains me to say this, but I can’t help but the feel the presentation, and direction this show is taking and is in is really quite too self aware and almost entirely pretentious!
Jack- What happened to the man of faith Jack? Why are we getting stunted season 3 in a shark cage Jack, albeit great performance by Matt Fox, but please where is the growth that took 6 seasons to build? I did think it was awesome that he was heroic in trying to see what was inside the pill, but this is the final season of lost… What the F is happening?
Miles- Stealing the show
Hugo- Still the heart of the show.
Kate- Now, I’m fond of Kate because she stirs shit up that entertains us fans, but I agree her course is getting over the top redundant and overtly predictable. In both Timelines!
Sawyer- The writers seem to be doing something right, because what is happening with Sawyer is completely real and completely painful, and I love every second of his painful torment. Not because Im a sadist but because its terrific drama.
Jin and Sun- Are MERELY miles away from each other, why aren’t they together already.
Dogen and Lennon- As gnarly as those actors are, their characters are so convolutedly misconceiving crypic douche bags they are stunting our characters from achieving their supposed destiny.
Call Backs- The call backs this early are fun to watch, but if it honestly doesnt push the story or offer any momentum I see it quite worthless. Granted I am certainly one for appreciating and relishing nostalgia, but if you are going to cram it so tangledly down our throat, why should we be invested?
There are STILL things I care about. And that’s where the heck was Claire, what does it mean and what is the significance of being ‘claimed’ and ‘infected’. Whats up with Alpert? AND I MISS BEN!!!
I think thats what we need, Benjamin Linus because he gets s*** done.
I don’t dislike the episode, I enjoyed what it was, I don’t mind the slow pace AT ALL! I am a sucker for pacing. But what is genuinely pissing me off is how for ONCE in LOST’S awesome legacy I feel like the story DOES not know where the F it’s going to conclude.
I don’t like this feeling.
Ideally I suppose it is alot to ask, but really think about it. I’m not asking for an epic episode after an epic episode. I just don’t like where our beloved characters are in this final season of the greatest show on television.
Next weeks episode assures me to promising as assures the rest of us that the ratio between questions and answers should be more heavy, but please writers, RESOLVE!!!
I do feel like I am being very rough and its only been the 3rd episode, but I really hope our 815ers get the F out of the temple because I can’t stand the Others right now, because they are crippling the momentum of our characters respective destinies.
If this is the writers way for ’setting up’ the chess game that is our characters lives, then so be it, I can live with that. I just hope it gets less excruciating.
At this point I don’t want answers, I just want closure, redemption, and for the story to come ‘full circle’. I care much more about why are characters have done what they done, and who they turn out to be, and what happens to them FAR BEYOND mythology!
Sorry for ranting. Love the podcast, love the forum’s response.
I feel better now.
-Knives
PS
At this point? How is Jacob a good guy? What has he done?
Nothing.
I’m on Man In Locke’s side. Just because he is ‘dark’ doesn’t mean he’s evil. Sure as Smokie he has killed hundreds, but he makes a more appealing case. He doesn’t try to be cryptic, he is matter of factly, and he is blunt.
I suppose so was Satan, but at this moment in time.
Count me as a solider on the Dark side,because Jacob has failed.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
PPS
Line of the night:
“He’s an Iraqi torturer who kills kids, of course he deserves a 2nd chance”
That was probably the cruelest thing Sawyer has ever said.
But he has a point.
Ryan just read your review, it defintely put things in perspective.
^_^
February 10th, 2010 at 12:51 am
Decent episode. Slow, after the premiere, but at this point, I’ll take any new information any time. And I agree completely — I was completely surprised by how great Josh H. was!
The fact that we’re seeing the same characters have intertwined fates both on island and off-island (Ethan-Claire, Claire-Kate, Boone-Locke for starters) reminds me of reincarnation and karma. Some people believe that certain souls have “unfinished business” from previous lives that causes them to come together in future lives to conclude their karma together.
The people that they are in their future life and the circumstances they meet in may be different, but underneath it all their two souls are the same, and are completing some unfinished business together. So, for example, in a past lifetime, one person may been jealous of another man who was in love with his wife and pushed that man off a cliff. So maybe in a future lifetime, they meet up again to complete their karma, and there might be some critical moment which involves heights. The where and the what are less important. It is the underlying interaction that is important, and the learning that comes from it. And it could be said that it is each person’s destiny to complete their unfinished business. Once they do, their destiny is found! Or at least that part of their destiny.
So, regardless of which reality they are in, Ethan and Claire have something that requires them to come together under a theme of birth. And Boone may have had an unfinished piece around “looking up to Locke”. And Kate/Claire clearly seem to have some baby karma together.
This is not my native spiritual viewpoint, so please correct if I am getting something about karma incorrect here.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:17 am
I didn’t hate the episode. Kate episodes are obviously not the strongest ones, but Jack getting a tatto in Thailland was by far the worst. I’ll take a weak episode of “Lost” before a strong episode of almost anything else any day of the week.
I hope Emilie de Ravin has the chops to pull off a truly dark character, because if she’s got it, then it will be fun to watch. If not, it will be very painful.
I enjoy watching the Dogan character as much as I enjoy Richard Alpert. I’d love to see a showdown between the two of them, and a backstory on both.
And I’ll repeat what so many have already said – an Emmy for Josh Holloway! Awesome performance on the submarine dock! He does “destroyed” very well!
February 10th, 2010 at 1:26 am
So how long can one actually drive around a stolen taxi cab in Los Angeles? For hours it seems (including through ritzy Brentwood) even though it’s bright yellow, with identifying numbers on all four sides and the roof, and being driven by a suspected murderer and international fugitive.
As if that wasn’t stretch enough, the preggers-and-ready-to-pop Claire accepts a ride offer from a woman she’s never met, who minutes before was in handcuffs, waving a pistol in her face, and snatched her baby bag? Hmmm…
Can’t say I loved the story telling of this episode, but as usual, LOST brings home the bacon on story execution. The writers delivered just what they needed, with just enough carrot and string (Claire/Roussseau) to lure me back next week.
One theory that is starting to make sense to me is that Jacob/Esau is not a metaphor for good versus evil, but a very real struggle between two evils, in the form of fallen angels. Perhaps God has banished them to the island as a form of purgatory. The island’s energy properties act as a barrier to their ability to inflict damage on the outer world, but doesn’t prevent them from toying with passers-by.
Here are samples of historical fallen angels that may fit the bill:
Buer – teaches philosophy, logic and ethics.
Dantanian – appears as a man with many faces.
Imamiah – governs voyages.
Lahash – interferes with divine will.
Obyzouth – kills newborns and cause still-births
February 10th, 2010 at 1:54 am
Thought the episode was good – not great. Totally agree with John Fisher that this was as much about Claire as Kate. While Claire has gone to the dark side and is apparently setting traps like Rousseau, I don’t think that Rousseau was ever “infected”. I think she was insane after living all those years alone and having gone through what she did but not “evil”.
The sickness explanation was good but clearly leaves questions. I guess that is the level of “answers” we will get this season – there will still be a lot left for interpretation.
I’m really liking the flashsideways. Ethan, Aaron and the look Kate gave Jack – great. The movement of these two universes together is really fascinating.
I thought the big line in this weeks ep was Dogen telling Jack to give the pill to Sayid in order to be “redeemed”. I can’t help but think that had Jack done that, there would have been immediate impacts to the alternative timeline and the two universes would have moved closer together. But, he didn’t take that chance so we will have to wait for the net redemption opportunity to see what happens.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:56 am
Sorry for not reading all the comments before posting!! I really still think it was Rousseau who was “sick,” and not her team. I’ve thought that since we saw her flashback in season 5 with her and her boyfriend pointing guns at each other. To me, Claire’s “infection” confirmed that with her Rousseau trap-setting-messy-hair-wearing behavior. I gotta say it makes me a little sad to think that Claire has spent the past 3 years alone in the jungle, freakin out and eating bugs while Kate has spent the past 3 years with Aaron, all cozy and warm in her expensive Oceanic settlement house in California. Poor Claire, how fair is THAT?
Sawyer’s downturn after Juliet’s death is just heartbreaking to watch, because he’d made such a peaceful turnaround after the final time jump to the Dharma time. His pain just seems so much deeper than it ever was before he got to the island. I find it interesting how everyone is finding a reason to blame themselves for Juliet’s death. There were so many different points in the timeline where her death seemingly could have been averted–but is the point that it really couldn’t have been? The whole Mrs. Hawking and the guy in the red shoes speech?
One thing I’m confused on. If Jacob WANTS people to come to the island, and the Others work for Jacob…why the reaction when people are on the island;ie. the big ‘you’re not welcome here’ attitude? I don’t get it.
And I also heart Dogan. He really is such a cool and interesting character. Even though we’re so attached to these other characters we’ve gotten to know over the past years, I just keep wanting to see more Dogan. We need some kind of Dogan spin-off show!!
One more thing…I was very relieved to see that Jack wasn’t so far gone that he–as a doctor–would not just give some random capsule to Sayid because Temple Manager Dogan said so. The thought that he might just do that on trust alone was freaking me out.
Thanks for the podcast…love you guys!!
February 10th, 2010 at 2:27 am
after reading some of the posts – I realized that Ethan wasn’t Dr. Rom, but Dr. Goodspeed. I remembered hearing that last night, but it didn’t quite register as ‘wrong’ – b/c it was a name that was already floating around. This Alt-Timeline is flipping me out with the minor changes, like Ms. Paik for Sun last week instead of Mrs. Kwon… what’s up with that?!?!?
I do like the Zombie references (I laughed out loud), and Tarzan Claire is great! When Aldo & Justin were saying to Jin & Kate to watch out for the traps “they are HERS” – I think the audience was meant to think it was Rousseau – who was already dead for 3+ years at this point – but it was great that it was Claire… but still, what’s up with that?
February 10th, 2010 at 3:00 am
Got through most comments and I just want to say
There was a lot of humor in this episode but what’s up with Jack smiling and kinda laughing the whole episode?
And it really stood out rewatching Epi 2 that the Others are barefoot. I kind of wondered if the reset didn’t alter some things on the Island, too?
Favorite straight line: Jin to Kate “Who do you care about, Kate?”
Favorite humor: “WE’ll be in the Food Court”
Biggest question: “It happened to your sister” really makes you wonder what ‘claimed’ meant and what it’ll mean for Sayid
Love the Sonogram date catch from several of you above. You folks are amazing and this podcast/blog always enriches my experience of LOST – Kudos!
February 10th, 2010 at 3:09 am
I’ve been thinking about the themes of “constants” and “variables” as defined earlier in Lost, and the type of time-shifting Desmond and others were subject to earlier when their bodies did not appear to go anywhere, as opposed to the time travel on the island or on the Ajira flight. What if the Losties who were touched by Jacob are actually doing this type of time travel now, and they all need to find a constant so they can bring these two timelines in synch?
Oh, and I really think we are perilously close to a zombie season, even if Sayid denies he is one!
February 10th, 2010 at 3:16 am
I believe Doc Arzt’s line, “I’m walkin’ here!” is actually from the movie Midnight Cowboy (spoken by Dustin Hoffman) not Taxi Driver.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:46 am
Another funny Miles line is when he tells Sayid that Hugo is running things now. I loved the dry way he said the line, he is becoming a new favorite of mine, taking the place of “sarcastic Sawyer” I guess.
Like the majority of you I felt let down after last week’s action packed episode. I expected more reveals, perhaps this is a “set up” episode that is preparing us for what is coming next.
@Knives – I feel your frustration, I am not a fan of the Temple others and I am so tired of cryptic answers and everyone just accepting them.
Thoughts I haven’t seen covered here yet:
Miles knows something is up with Sayid, I don’t think he knows what it is but he feels a change. Why doesn’t he say something?
Where did Sawyer get a ring on the Island? Is it the Penny ring? Good catch to the person who posted about it above.
The baseball reference – is that supposed to show us that Dogan misses home and wants to leave just like Jack? Interesting line about being brought there just like Jack for the same purpose.
re: Ethan being a doctor – could it be because his mom and he left on the sub just before the incident and then he stayed off the island. He certainly seems like a kind Ethan now, so much of the Claire/Ethan sequence reminded me of when Claire was drugged and kidnapped and being give the shots to safeguard her and the baby.
Could all those shots of the mystery “vitamins” and the quarantine be to keep from being “claimed”?
Another parallel to first season, poor Jin being trapped once again, this time by a bear trap instead of those handcuffs. Of course just like Sayid and Rousseau. I also caught the expression and the confused hand touching on Claire that is just like Rousseau. The look of trying to connect with reality.
That’s it for now, I have to rewatch it.
Still not sure what side I am on, I have a feeling that the losties are going to side with Fake Locke and that Dogan knows that and is trying to prevent it. They are the key, which ever side they choose may win.
One last thought, I always assumed the final battle would be the losties (oceanic passengers) vs the others. What happens if they are divided in battle? I would hate to have to choose a side between them.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:50 am
If Rousseau was actually the one that was infected, it could explain why the Others stole her baby.
It doesn’t explain why she got along so well with the Losties.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:52 am
One more thing, I couldn’t help thinking after the poison line – They almost killed Sayid!! No!!! I still don’t see Sayid as evil at all. Instead I see him like Eko, he played with the cards he has been dealt and did the best he could do with what he had.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:56 am
How funny is it that most of us probably put any thoughts of “the sickness” behind us years ago, perhaps as a delusion of Rousseau. It turns out, I think, that “the sickness” is going to be one of the most important things in Season 6 and perhaps in the entire series. Maybe those infected with “the sickness” will join forces with the MIB.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:58 am
Not one of my favorite episodes. But Josh H. – Bravo!
Sawyer threw the engagement ring in a body of water just like Desmond once did.
Artz screaming, “I’m walkin’ here, I’m walkin’ here” is a call-out from the film Midnight Cowboy, Ratso Rizzo (Dustin Hoffman).
Is the “Healing Pool” the same underwater submarine docking station they used for the “Looking Glass”?
How did Kate get the handcuffs removed, then just casually drive up to see Claire sitting on a bench? Every cop and Federal agent in LA would be looking for a girl driving a Yellow Cab. But maybe Kate has a cloaking device in this dimension? Very unrealistic.
One of the Others guards with Kate and Jin said, “remember me, you hit me with the butt of a gun and escaped from prison 3-years ago.” What was that about? That actor looked familiar. More mind f.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:04 am
One major reveal in this episode was we learned that the secret of the temple baptism is it causes you to lose your Iraqi accent.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:11 am
One thought regarding Kate “recognizing” Jack in the cab line at the airport. Of course it could be a deja vu from another timeline, but it could also be that she remembered him as the guy she stole the pen from.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:17 am
I didn’t love this episode, but I love LOST so I bared with it. I don’t understand the writers; they put so much effort into crafting a story and then leave so many gaping holes when it comes to Kate’s issues with the law. I mean, how did her cab not get hailed down after hours of her driving in it? Why didn’t the cop check the area she was hiding in in Claire’s hospital room? What makes Kate thinking she can just waltz out of the hospital? Bogus, bogus.
*
On another note, everywhere around the net I am reading people seem to be pretty much taking the temple people at their word about “the infection” and how it makes people’s hearts “dark”, but I am not entirely convinced.
I am still wondering many things:
1) Did Montand and the French team make it all the way to the temple or just underneath it?
2) What was Smokey doing down there at the time? Was he really guarding it back then? Who was inside to be guarded?
3) Why did Jacob live in the shadow of the statue instead of vaulted above all others inside the temple?
The producers say this is a simple story of good and evil, but I don’t believe them just yet…
February 10th, 2010 at 4:20 am
Hi Ryan and Jen, good to have Lost and you guys back. I just had one cooment as there have been such great things said ready. How is it that Dogen didn’t know our Losties last week, Cindy had to explain they were on the first plane…to this week he knew everything about them including Jack had a sister? It was only a few hours so where did the intel come from?
February 10th, 2010 at 4:24 am
I also wanted to just point out that the guy who played the mechanic who helped Kate is Jeff Kober, who starred in the Lou Diamond Phillips thriller The First Power. In the film, Kober’s character plays an emotionally troubled man born of an incestuous relationship who becomes a sadistic Satanist serial killer. After execution for his crimes (and perhaps as a gift from Satan), the killer gains the power of resurrection as well as the ability to disappear, reappear, and possess the bodies of others. Sounds a bit like MIB/Flocke/Smokey, eh?
The movie scared the living daylights out of me as a 10 year old and burned Kober’s freaky face (and even freakier laugh) into my brain forever. I hope this actor gets more than a flash in this season. He’s really good.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:36 am
@Camille- I remember him from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, he has been in a lot of tv shows.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:41 am
While I love (love, love) Rob McElhenney him being on tonight’s ep was a bit distracting for me. Kinda like too Love Boat’ish. Hopefully there won’t be too many more celebrity lost fans popping up as characters this season.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:45 am
kate sucks. claire was interesting, sawyer was interesting, sayid was interesting, dogen was interesting, jack was interesting AND likeable, kate was still BORING and never likeable. the worst written character in the history of the show. hope this was the last kate-centric episode.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:53 am
the movie quote in the write up is attributed to the wrong movie. The “I am walking over here!” line was spoken by ratso rizzo from “midnight cowboy”
February 10th, 2010 at 4:54 am
Juliet was also branded, as a punishment for killing someone. What is it supposed to mean?
@shanny – who is Rob MElhenney? Who did he play?
February 10th, 2010 at 5:08 am
Ok, wow….
REMIND ME NEVER TO GO A DAY LATE TO THIS FEEDBACK… Took me 30 minutes to read through all of that…
Needless to say:
@Knives: I 100% agree with the frustration, but having myself called how silly this episode was going to be back in post 2 of this feedback, I can safely say i didn’t have high expectations.
@Kate and Claire off island: Really? REALLY?! Kate who is a lone wolf who is running from the cops (which by the way, what does it say about the LAPD that they can’t track a stolen taxi until they stumble upon it at a hospital) takes the time to go back and help Claire. I know we’re supposed to be like “aaaw look at the alt reality and how even then they are like island friends”…. BUT REALLY?!?!? There could have been so much done to make off island alt kate into an entirely different only out for me character. But the best moment of silly writing was Kate and the mechanic.
Kate: I need these hand cuffs off and you’re gonna do it..
Mechanic: Nah, I’ve got the upper hand cause I know more stuff than you
Kate: Well then I need you to help me get them off, I’ll do whatever you want
Mechanic: *dirty look on his face*
AND RIGHT THERE I THOUGHT “wow… lost is about to go super edgy and Kate is going to use her sex to get what she wants just like how she sleeps with Jack and Sawyer in “using” them. BUUUUUUUUUUUUT…
Kate: Here’s 200 dollars!
Mechanic: AWESOME!
UGH…..
Only two things redeemable about this plotline was the look at Jack when she seemed to recognize him and when Ethan showed up.
But… man, she has landed herself one of the most poorly written characters in the series.
Other than that, it was entirely forgetable. I love Evangeline. And I wouldn’t kick her out of bed for eatting crackers
@The Temple stuff:
Ok, this was interesting. Not too like “OMG OMG OMG!!” but, interesting.
I will say i was entirely shocked to find in season 6 we are going back to the sickness from the beginning of the show. I can honestly say I never expected a revisit to it.
As for “he’s been claimed”. I can see how this is where the battle lines are being drawn. Sayid will join MIB in the final battle…or will at least show us what happens while you have the sickness then be killed off.
Winner of the stolen scene award goes to Miles with “we’ll be at the food court”
@The Others:
Why is it one group of others uses pills to “kill the sickness” while another group is using shots ot prevent it? Was it too late to do that with sayid?
I still don’t understand the hierarchy of the others. Hopefully we’ll see something about it in the future.
@The Jin, Kate, 2 random guys
Ok, even though they were annoying I LOVED the two talkative others. They reminded me of all the adventure movies that have those two bumbling characters that give away way too much.
As for Kate following Sawyer, I think it’s been said 10000 times. NOT AGAIN
and Poor Jin, he has had some rotten luck when it comes to finding people he doesn’t need to find.
@Island Claire:
Ok, I’m not too much concerned with how or why..
my concern is.. they said she was claimed like Rousseau…. BUT… I don’t remember Danielle being evil or claimed or anything. In fact I thought her people were…
unless her people were the good ones and she was the bad one and they tried to kill her and she killed them instead. I guess I don’t understand the sides in war.
@Final thoughts going into the future:
1. If we have a final epic battle… why do I think Kate and Claire will fight. I can just see it happening. Claire will be all “you’ll never raise mah babey!” and Kate will be all “I just wanted to find you!” and Claire will go “LIAR!” then they’ll have a misguided fight scene in the rain in the jungle with lightning and thunder and all that.
2. I am 100% convinced that Sawyer will join Locke. 1. cause of their connection to Locke’s dad. 2. Sawyer’s sadness and hatred. 3. Sawyer has nothing else to live for and Locke will gladly convince him otherwise.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:17 am
Bill Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 3:58 am
One of the Others guards with Kate and Jin said, “remember me, you hit me with the butt of a gun and escaped from prison 3-years ago.” What was that about? That actor looked familiar. More mind f.
——————————
that was Aldo, back in season 3, Alex helped Kate and Sawyer escape and in return they helped rescue Karl from room 23,which was being guarded by Aldo.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:20 am
This episode wasn’t great, but it was neccesary. The connection between Kate/Claire/Aaron in the original timeline always seemed forced, as was Kate’s supposed reason for returning to the island (to “find Claire”). Still, that relationship was the natural way to reintroduce Claire to the on-island story. In many ways, the purpose of this episode was simply to bring Claire back into the story.
Disappointed not to see anything about Smocke, Ben, etc. Likewise, not much from Hurley and Miles.
It will be interesting to see if all of our original Losties end up being “claimed” by the two opposing forces of Jacob & MIB.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:34 am
I’ve been a reader and listener for the first time. Thought i’d throw my 2 cents in
I am so sick of Kate. I don’t know if they are purposely trying to make Kate get under skin, but she is under mine. I really hope Sawyer’s statement is designed to make her “go away” because she needs to. I know there are many shippers and kate lovers out there but surely you can see enough is enough
Seeing Claire as the “nouveau Rousseau” was nice. I liked it. I wonder if she was as odd as Danielle was. I look forward to seeing how that turns out.
Ethan Goodspeed was awesome lol I laughed so hard lol. I love the way they are sneaking little cameos in like that. Its fun.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:35 am
I have crackpot theory. I’m curious about what others think. What if Dogan is lying about why he needs a translator. Could it be that the real reason is to protect the real leader- Lennon.The inverted hierarchy enables Lennon to be in position of control without having the danger associated with a leadership position.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:39 am
Phew okay here we go.
I’d say the Sawyer showing his torn apart innards through Josh’s acting made this episode worth watching alone. I like that he didn’t go off to beat up someone but he just wanted to retrieve his would be engagement ring.
That said Kate is still the new Michael in terms of annoying in my eyes. When was the last time she did anything remotely interesting or even had a character building moment?! Also did anyone notice how much more cruel she was as sideways-Kate? Does this tie into how sideways-Locke seemed out of character and at peace? Why would Claire trust her after what she did to her?
Really liked seeing Dogen’s softer side when he isn’t trying to be tough. (To obviously show off to his people as an act). And right when I thought Jack was reverting back to non-action-crybaby mode he finally did something bold! Go Jack! I’ve been waiting for an entire season to see how his character would evolve and I’m really hoping this season he finds the middle ground between S1 (Run-n-gun) and S5 (Mopey, indifferent) Jack.
Overall good, not great, episode. I am glad that the pacing might slow down enough for more Sawyeresque scenes like we got today.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:47 am
I went to bed last night giving the episode a “meh” grade of B, but awoke to raising the grade to a B+. I actually really liked it after mulling it over.
One thought I had immediately is that I cannot imagine the writers will continue a Jack-Sawyer-Kate triangle any more. That ship has sailed, at least based on Josh’s performance of a tortured man who lost the woman he loved, and Kate’s slow realization that Sawyer loved Juliette. (Until that moment on the docks, I think Kate was in denial about that.)
One thing that I hated was that I think at least at one point last season, Kate should have asked someone in Dharmaville—”Hey, has anyone seen Claire.” Or, perhaps when Kate said this to Sawyer on the docks that she came back for Claire he should have been like, “Claire? We haven’t seen her in three years. She’s probably dead.” That is just a transitional problem I have—and for all we know they probably filmed some lines like that but had to edit them down.
My other thought is that while the 2004 life seems more secondary to the action, I think at some point it is going to be flipped—and that the 2004 Losties are going to be the push in this season. So far, everyone’s issues in 2004 are not what they were in season 1. Boone didn’t have Shannon issues, Hurley is now lucky, Locke isn’t a loser, Kate may be innocent. (Maybe Sayid isn’t a torturer and Sawyer came to terms with the man who killed his parents) So that said, maybe Jacob gave them a second chance in that timeline.
So, overall, good episode. One worthy of watching again. Josh was amazing and his box of pain broke my heart. (That must have been his mother’s wedding ring?) I can only hope that in 2004 he gets a chance at Juliette—but I think the only payback would be is if HE KNOWS it’s a second chance and “It worked.”
February 10th, 2010 at 5:47 am
Ok, I have a question about the Others and their relationship with the Temple Others. Were they always just one big group that worked together but lived separately? In 1992, when Ben gassed the Dharma folks, the group of people that he brought to live in New Othertown, were these folks from the Temple? If so, why did some of them stay (barefoot) at the temple, and some of them move into the houses, wear shoes, and meet for bookclub?
They must have been the same group, right? Because when Sawyer and Kate were in bear cages, Cindy and the kids stopped by to say hi, and now we see Cindy at the Temple. Similarly, Aldo from the Temple guarded Kate’s cage. So, does that mean the whole time that the Others were living with Ben, some of them were also living in the Temple? And they all got along just fine? But I thought Ben was the leader of the Others, so was he also Dogen’s leader? Because Dogen doesn’t seem like he would take orders from Ben. Ever.
I also agree with Jon that if they all know that Jacob has brought everyone to the island (like Dogen said), why would they all be so excited to kill each other (like Dogen was about too before Hurley gave him the guitar case)?
On a totally different note, back off island I was thinking that perhaps the LAPD wasn’t looking for the stolen cab because the Marshall wants to bring Kate in himself. Doesn’t he seem like more of a bounty hunter than a cop? So, perhaps he didn’t report the cab stolen, so that he could track her down, not the cops. Or, since we know he’s not a very competent Marshall, maybe he just didn’t remember the license plate number. The driver could have reported it, but he fled the cab much later than they all left the airport, so maybe there just wasn’t time.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:04 am
Here is my latest theory, (which I just thought and posted on yublog)
Eventually all the main characters in the flash sideways will remember everything and seek each other out. As the characters “remember” the island. The changes in their life and characters in the flash sideways will flash to their present selves on the island. These changes in their character will be the difference they need to win the battle on the island. Example – Hugo being lucky and confident, Jack – having more faith, etc.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:19 am
First, I feel like Kate’s the one that has been brought back from the dead. Great episode.
The introspective scene shared by Kate and Sawyer on the docks instantly became a highlight of the season so far. Sawyer looks unflinchingly at his past actions. He authored Juliet’s fate from that first parallel moment when he used his gift of charm to persuade her to stay. Kate winces at his every word because she finally seems to know her mind and longs for the clean slate she asked for from James so long ago. When Sawyer finally pitches the ring into the drink (unlike the parallel of regretful Desmond), you can tell this is one door closing forever. Holloway gets the Emmy this year.
Sawyer’s reaction to these harsh realizations is to drift toward nihilism and make himself a good candidate for the dark side. When Sawyer exits the gate of the temple and goes into the wilderness, he goes into a black background. He has obviously come to the conclusion that Anthony Cooper was right and that the island is hell. He talks about being imprisoned on this rock. Then, in a more karmic version, he says Sayid is consigned to another “go round” because of his failings.
Dogen says Sayid is infected. He offers as proof the fact that this already happened to Claire. We see Claire in the identical condition as Rousseau. Rousseau claimed it was not herself, but her other team members that became infected. So, is it all just a matter of perspective? If you serve one master, are the servants of the other by definition ill? Or did Rousseau die and get claimed in an unseen back story?
So, the 815 survivors are special, even vital in some way as the others now protect them like the holy grail. But they are special collectively probably for some heroic task they will need to accomplish for life to go on and not perish in darkness. This gives new meaning to “Live together, die alone.” It’s not just a hollow slogan, it’s a necessary condition for this future event to occur. It’s also why the dark man wants to kill as many of them as possible according to Alpert. The necessity of togetherness has been hinted at in other ways as well such as “Everything that rises must converge.” “It must be all of them.”
Has anyone noticed that whoever is in possession of the famous luger pistol seems to get drilled? Mr. Friendly had it first. Faraday removed it from the gun cabinet and threatened Eloise with it. Now Aldo takes one for the team. It’s an iconic prop, but I haven’t seen too much talk of where it came from or what it may mean.
I’m sure it’s all been said by now, but Dogen has been a fantastic addition especially since Ben has lost his way. And this episode was hilarious. Aldo and Justin were killing me. Perhaps this comic relief is also meant to inform us that the others are far from superhuman.
Defend the island.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:20 am
In case it hasn’t been mentioned yet, the Artz line “I’m walkin’ here” is from Urban Cowboy (uttered by Dustin Hoffman) not Taxi Driver.
The episode itself was fine, but a bit of a step back after “LA X”, which I think it to be expected somewhat.
I think where we are heading with these two timelines is for a convergence somewhere down the line. I believe the timeline on the island is starting to “bleed over” (in Jack’s case in “LA X”, quite literally bleeding over) into the LA timeline.
It might be similar to the effect on Desmond when Farraday talks to him at the Swan Hatch during the island flashing about in Season 5. The LA timeline characters may begin to have distinct memories intrude upon their lives, blurring the timelines. We have small touches of this thus far, but I predict they will become more frequent and more powerful as the season progresses. It brings to mind, in a way, Stephen King’s The Langoliers in which the group that survives in a ‘lost time’ period realize the world they inhabit is about to be consumed because it is not supposed to exist. I posit that where we are heading is for the island Losties to reunite with Sun and Lapidus, and for Frank to fly them from the island as it is about to be destroyed. Indeed in The Langoliers, as the group flies away from the airport, they see the world they left behind disappear, must the same way the island seemed to vanish when Ben moved the island, or, perhaps, the way the island appears at the bottom of the ocean in LA X.
It is also interesting to note that the survivors of The Langoliers experience a white flash that brings them back to their proper time where they retain their experiences of the lost period.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:23 am
As much as I hate Kate, someone else annoyed me even more than she ever has. That would be Dogen, he just seems like a giant tool and I hope they kill him off soon.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:34 am
i really doubt the writers are going to go the route of the Langoliers—I think they will want it to be their own original creation.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:49 am
@mattfromnd i have no doubt that when Flocke comes rampaging through the temple the first to go will be Dogen.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:06 am
Just had a thought; I wonder if Locke’s comments several season’s back “I’ve looked into the eyes of the island…” have anything to do with the fact that maybe he was already being transformed somehow then? Perhaps he’d been taken by Smokie then, or closely examined and found worthy to be inhabited later (more recently). I don’t have the answer but that question just popped into my mind.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:10 am
Urban Cowboy? Where was my head… MIDNIGHT Cowboy…sheesh, perhaps that was a sideways flash where Dustin Hoffman is really John Travolta….I don’t know…
@lucydog- I’m not suggesting the end of Lost will be the same as The Langoliers…I’m only saying that, as with other pieces of lit/pop lit that the producers and writers point us too, that the story of The Langoliers helps inform us as to perhaps how they view ‘time’ and multiple timelines.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:22 am
Good episode. Great Kate & Sawyer scenes. I think Kate was suffering from crushed ego more than feeling bad about Juliet. Was the mechanic who helped Kate from another episode? I can’t remember (I know he was on China Beach years ago..) Good Ethan was very interesting, did not see that coming. Claire is definitely representing Rousseu, missing child, setting traps. Look forward to other’s comments.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:30 am
One of the biggest reveals (I think anyway) is that Kate, Jack, Hurley, Jin, Miles, Sayid and Sawyer did not jump universes after the end of the Season 5 finale. So — the “flash sideways” is not the “what if” of what happened if an H-Bomb went off on the island. How do I know?
If they had jumped universes, Sawyer would not have found the ring he got for Juliet in his old Dharma bungalow. Because that timeline would have ended in the destruction of the island.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:31 am
@Sandy in Ojai
I’m still not convinced Claire was referring to Aaron when she told Kate “Don’t you dare bring him back.” In the light of intervening events, I think she may have been talking about Ben.
@L Reene
He’s still Sayid in my opinion. The infection hasn’t reached the “heart of darkness” stage yet.
@Chris in Durham @ Mindstage
Fair enough.
@Chris @ Annie
The line about Rousseau puzzled me as well. I believe what this means is that Rousseau “died” from the moment the dark side claimed her, back before she even shot Robert.
@Connie in Oregon @ Knives
Yeah. One minute the others say everyone will be in a world of hurt if Sayid dies and the next they’re trying to feed him a poison pill. Perhaps they don’t comprehend that Jacob foresaw this in his woven tapestry of fate and needed Sayid to be just as he is.
Are we certain that Jack had nothing to do with reviving Sayid? He laid hands upon him and working medical miracles is his thing.
Yann. Are you in the looking glass under strict orders to maintain radio silence?
February 10th, 2010 at 7:57 am
Patrick from Maine, Bill, bill, and Ron St. Amant: Yes, “Midnight Cowboy.” Same actor, wrong movie. Thanks!
February 10th, 2010 at 7:58 am
Kate was with Claire in the jungle when she gave birth the first time. Same parallel in the X story.
OK, I remember the guard now from the Karl brainwashing episode. But did he mean to say Kate hit him in the head 3 years ago or 3 seasons ago?
Expect some weaker episodes this season as they put most of their budget and production efforts into the big payoffs (hopefully).
February 10th, 2010 at 8:01 am
When smokey ripped off the French guys arm, it was from in that crevice in the temple, I’m assuming that is the “home” that he wants to return to. Or the temple is the gate way home..
Same thoughts about the taxi thing, WAAAYYY too easy to identify (probably like 40 seconds total before you’re busted!)..
The airline said Christian’s casket was never put on the plane, so for it to disappear mid-flight seems strange. Maybe someone took it out of cargo and sent it ahead to the island..
And did Desmond just appear on the flight for the few minutes the plane flew over the island?
Also, love Sayid, but his crying ‘They tortured me, why did they torture me?’ was silly. We’ve seen him kill people with both hands tied behind his back, semi-conscious. Plus, he already assumed he was going to hell, essentially for all his misdeeds, so torture seems apropos..hmm..
February 10th, 2010 at 8:01 am
This episode was incredibly disappointing and pretty obnoxious to me. I hope next week’s FLocke focus will being me back.
Kate – what part of “don’t follow me” do you not understand? After hating Kate for a while but never really being able to pinpoint why, I finally realized it. She is completely selfish. Going to rescue her friends who told her not to might seem altruistic, but in fact all she’s doing is what makes her feel better. See also: killing the man her mother loved. See also: taking a child that never belonged to her. See also: running from the law, despite breaking it repeatedly. Kate is the type of jerk who will keep you on life support despite your DNR order. Screw Kate, I am done with her.
Speaking of things I am done with: the Others. Hey Others, you used to be mysterious, wily, and clever. See: Ben, Tom, Ethan, Juliet, and Mrs. Klugh. Now you just look like one-dimensional thugs. It’s hard to believe you were once referred to as ‘enlightened”; the only thing you seem capable of is yelling at people and shoving them around if they don’t do what you say. How about using your WORDS a little more? Maybe if you explained to your prisoners WTF is going on, they might be more compliant.
Also getting my panties in a twist this episode: Aldo. Not because of his character, but because of the fact that the writers had to insult our intelligence by clunkily pointing him out. I’m surprised he just didn’t stop in the middle of the jungle and announce “HEY, DO YOU REMEMBER ME? I’M TV’S ROB MCELHENNY! I WUZ IN SEASON 3, FROM THE EPISODE CALLED “NOT IN PORTLAND” REMEMBER? REMEMBER?!?”
Oh wait…that’s pretty much what he did. Not cool, writers. Not cool.
Many tiny things also yanking my crank…
– Dogan, who conveniently switches to English when he wants to be superdramatic. I am guessing they’ll drop the whole Japanese-in-front-of-the-subordinates plotline as quickly as they started it. Also, just because he is Japanese, that doesn’t mean he needs to be seen drinking tea and trimming bonsai trees. I’m surprised that he doesn’t have a geisha in the corner playing a shamisen.
– the poison pill. Something isn’t sitting right with me on this. I assume we are supposed to make the connection between the green pill and the fancy-pants injections that Desmond and Claire were given…but why a crude little pill? Shouldn’t you have a supply of injectables somewhere in the temple?
– the Justin / Aldo conversation was irritating and cringeworthy.
Justin: hey, maybe it’s the…
Aldo: HEY SHUT UP
Justin: Do you think that she…
Aldo: WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!?
Justin: OMG the answer to everything is…
Aldo: HEY MAN, SHUT IT
Justin: It’s peanutbutterjellyti…
Aldo: SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP
Argh, this ep drove me to near madness. I love Lost, but man…this episode…not the finest.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:22 am
@Beth in Sacto – LOL about Dogen. It’s strange. After having such modern and interesting Asian male characters in Jin and Miles, what a let down to have such a tacky stereotypical Asian male in Dogen. Though he isnt hard on my eyes….
Also wondering HOW MANY TIMES is Jin is going to be “miraculously reunited” with someone in the jungle? Honestly, if I hear someone else surprisedly exclaim “Jin!” again….God help us all.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:37 am
@Astro1derboy Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 7:06 am
That exact thought occurred to me at the end of the season premiere. I think we’ll find that Locke hasn’t been the original Locke for a very long time.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:53 am
@Camille in Slovenia
True, dat. He is a gorgeous, gorgeous man.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:04 am
@Beth in Sacramento
I definitely enjoyed the passion of your rant, though I can’t agree with most of it. For instance, what’s wrong with bonsai and zen composure? I ony wish I could be as cool as Dogen.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:21 am
I unfortunately didn’t enjoy this episode as much as I should have (if that makes any sense) seeing as how I loved the reveals (Claire, the sickness being brought back) but I just can’t love Kate centric episodes. She’s become so predictable. Kate run, Kate feel bad, Kate try to help, Kate run again. For the most part, all of her stories never surprise me anymore and it bores me most of the time. Although, the on island issues with Dogen and Jack (and Rob McElhenny of course) kept me interested. Josh Holloway again shows us another part of his acting repetoir, crying. I don’t think we’ve seen Sawyer have an open cry while in conversation with anyone before and his red, swelling eyes just sold it. Claire returning did remind me of Rousseau which brings me to another question: Was Rousseau sick? or, is there a chance she is living through Claire much like Unlocke? Just a few ideas.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:50 am
I’m confused as to the difference between a “claimed” person (a la Clair , Sayid, maybe the French team) and a MIB manifestation of a dead person (a la Christian, Locke, Mr. Echo’s brother, Ben’s daughter). I don’t think they are the same thing. Clearly Locke isn’t “claimed” because his body and the MIB’s manifestation of Locke were side by each on the beach.
My theory is that the MIB is a demon or fallen angel of some sort that can possess people. He’s obviously stuck on the island. I think he wants to go home to the greater world, where he can wreak whatever havoc he can do. Side idea to this: I’ll bet in the LAX universe he’s escaped since the island is under water and already causing trouble in the greater world. I’m thinking that the REAL parallel story line is one the island, and that our heros in the LAX universe are eventually recruited to save that universe by going BACK to the island with the plane crash.
Isn’t this fun?
February 10th, 2010 at 9:54 am
@Beth – “use your words” Hilarious, and I totally agree.
@Kira- I think Sayid thinks of torture as a way to get information and they didn’t ask him anything, they just hurt him for no good reason in Sayid’s mind. Plus Jack, you are right in not trusting them because how many times did Lennon say “we are going to hurt him” and they did. Dogen is like Ben, never assume anything he says is true.
I thought it was a bit amusing that Dogan’s room in the temple is set up like an office, with a desk, knicknacks, typewriter, fake mantle, book cases etc. Fake locke would disapprove, he would say Dogan is “corporate” like Ben.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:01 am
@Briand – Whatever is going on I am fairly confident MIL/Flocke/Smocke is NOT possessing people since he is NOT inside Locke’s body. Rather he has taken Locke’s form. I reckon he did the same with Yemi and Alex told, as for Christian I am still not sure…
Considering that we know that Flocke can take on other peoples’ forms I am curious whether the Claire we saw in the cabin with Christian was really Claire or if it was a projection by Flocke…
I do agree that I think the story lines will connect with our Losties somehow returning to the island.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:01 am
I am a little dismayed by the Kate hate; it seems so predictable, even before the episode airs many are bracing for a let down. A little objectivity would be welcomed.
I rated this episode as great, in fact the more I think about it the more I love it. Of course this episode felt less productive, it was only one hour, last week was two hours, for course more happened. Nevertheless, this week we got some truly excellent character development, both on and off island. A call back to season one.
Right off the bat, we are given clues in the flashsideways that there are definite differences in that timeline. In ‘What Kates does’ sideways Kate does something that Island Kate never did : she stopped running. She goes back for Claire. This is something that island Kate has not done, not for her childhood friend, Tom, who lay dying; not for Kevin, whom she thought she loved. This is a significant change the writers want us to notice – that there is a ‘pull’ and a ‘shift’ between these characters and timelines. Why are we so ready to accept that from John and Jack and not from Claire and Kate. Well, I for one, am in.
Kate going after Sawyer led us to the fantastic scene on the dock. Great effort from Josh and Evie. Sawyer broke my heart when he finally accepts his share of the blame for Juliet dying. Kate’s reaction to Sawyer dismissing her on the dock – ‘if you leave now you can make it back by sunset’ – heart wrenching.
By the way: Sawyer acknowledges that Kate keeps coming after him:
KATE: I’m sorry for following you.
SWAYER: Which time.
Jack and Dogen’s scene with the pill, was great, it gave me hope for Jack. ‘I don’t trust myself’… the beginning of Jack’s redemption. It made me like Dogen. I want to see more of him. The reason given for the need of a translator, separation of the leader, is a lesson both Jack and Ben could have used in the past.
Finally, the ‘claiming’ of the bodies by the darkness (I am still on the fence as to who is what) is perhaps why the Others/Hostiles wanted to have their dead returned to them – so they could protect them against being ‘claimed’. Remember Amy’s first husband Paul (a Hostile) killed during a picnic. After he died Richard made a deal to get his body back.
Good catch on the sonogram’s date. This is either a continuity error or there is something to Cindy’s statement to Dogen telling him our Losties were on the FIRST plane. Maybe the sideways timeline is a second plane.
Enjoy each episode – we will be mourning the lack of better TV after Lost has finished its run.
More on Claire later… after a rewatch.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:04 am
WHO are the people that enjoy Kate and her antics?
I do. As I said before during the re-watch, I missed the escapist Kate “Gingerbread Man” Austin. She is back in a huge way ! She was Locke’s tracking twin on the island and Sawyer’s con twin as well. Lost’s gun toting action chick on the run that may be slowed down but never held for long.
I enjoy Kate and her antics.
say something.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:08 am
@Carol from Boston – Dogen’s office kind of reminded me of that place they went to (the Orchid?) at the end of season 4 where Ben went to turn the frozen donkey wheel. where is the Orchid in relation to the temple any way?
February 10th, 2010 at 10:15 am
I enjoyed “What Kate Does,” and I am enjoying the flash sideways this season. The differences between the flashbacks and the flash sideways exist because because the actions of Losties in the past changed the influence that the island and its inhabitants had on our heroes’ future choices.
For example, I’m predicting that the characters in the flash sideways world never received visits from Jacob.
In “What Kate Does,” Kate claims she’s innocent. I believe her. I think that Jacob never allowed her to get away with stealing the lunch box, which prevented a conversation with her mother about right and wrong and led her to her life of crime.
In future episodes, I believe that we’ll see that “flash-sideways Sawyer” was never visited by Jacob, never devoted his life to vengeance, and perhaps never even called himself “Sawyer.” (Note that Dogan calls him “Ford” in “What Kate Does.”)
Taking this a step further, I believe that Jacob (or perhaps MIB) was the man with a rope around his waist who, according to Desmond, lead him to the monastery in “Catch 22.” I believe that this visit did not take place in the flash sideways world. Desmond married Ruth.
All this said, I believe that the universe has a way of course correcting. As the island world eventually fuses with the flash sideways world somehow, we’ll see that the characters end up at basically the same place, regardless of the path they took.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:33 am
In “What Kate Did” episode a few years ago we saw exactly what got her into the trouble w/ the law. I guess with the title of “What Kate Does” I am left wondering exactly what she did. What was it so extraordinary to deserve an episode? Was it that she helped a stranger in Claire and risked jail? Was it that she can let Sawyer go?
I am much more interested in the ’sickness’. The only clues we have are Danielle’s story, that Ben was taken in by the ‘Others’ & we were told would never be the same. It all reminds me of ‘Invasion Of The Body Snatchers’.
They seem to have been taking people and turning them. When Sayid lives and apparently did not pass his test they apparently tried to kill him….but if it was poison plain and simple then why would he have to be ‘willing’ to take it? It seems to me that taking poison would kill you if you wanted it to or not.
All we really know is that the temple ‘Others’ are liars…shocker…& Danielle said they will lie for a very long time. I wonder if some people are more easily turned or convinced to join than the rest. This would explain why young children can be turned more easily and that Claire’s good influence needed to be part of Aaron’s life. I think our main losties and those that were never taken are too intelligent or something which makes them harder to turn…however I also think that if they are turned they would make the best possible ‘Others’. Even the fact that Ethan seemed so good on the X timeline makes me think that he was ’sickened’ by the Others on island.
I don’t know really…I’m just getting some of this out of my system…I trust time will tell ; I’m still not ready to take a ’side’ but I’m leaning towards MIB / Smokey. But I also think that perhaps Jack & Co. will have to kill both sides to set things right. It will be fun to re-visit these conversations when all of this is over and see how crazy this all was. It seems that when you look back on the previous seasons on a re-watch that it all made a little more sense that it seemed at the time, huh?
February 10th, 2010 at 10:40 am
I am addicted to this blog. Cool catches, amusing rants etc.
I just wanted to point out that this is television, T E L E V I S I O N
and to expect reasonable behavior from any character (eg Claire), or group (eg LAPD) is actually what is unreasonable.
LOST ROCKS!
February 10th, 2010 at 10:47 am
Screenshot of Sawyer’s ring
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/2f7fbc11316274a2caf4bb3ca3e0bcb2
Does anyone have a screenshot of Desmond’s ring?
February 10th, 2010 at 10:50 am
Thank-you Coolpeace for a sensible, thoughtful post. I still stand by that Kate has the same proportion of malevolent and benevolent qualities as the other Losties, except for maybe Hurley who has a higher ratio “good” and selfless actions.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:22 am
Great comments as always and Great posdcast Jen & Ryan
Please!! Let us go without any more Kate episode
One of the worst episode ever
@ Chris
Yes Everything about Kate is just so phoney Nothing is believable Just cant believe what she is doing and to any realism in the drama she is playing out in 2007
On the acting
Holloway 2 thumbs up
Wait a minute! Has there ever been an episode where Sawyier hasnt nicknamed anyone?
Miles My guess is that the actor may just be making up these hilarious remarks (the foodcourt and leading Hugo) as he goes… really great
@Lucydog & Spalz
Indeed there seems to be a diference in most of the characters on board the flight that lands in LAX … If they did land a month later Locke may very well have been in the outback But this means that all the characters seen on that plane did something different than their previous lives in the period preceding this Sidney-LA flight
It means this group is venturing into a whole new story
Will it onfold on A316 anyway?
Will we encounter the to be adopter for Aaaron? (the one who broke up with the broken down lady in LA) Wouldnt it be amazing that it could be a known character? Speculations anyone??
Maybe the only ones who can get déjà vu visions/feelings in 2004 LA are the ones who spent some time there after being rescued… (i.e. the O6 + Desmond and Lapidus)
@Carol & Connie
Amy and Ethan (and a lot of Dharmites) left in 1977 in the sub
What if all those people are in LA in 2004 and involved with our new-improved 815ers?
@Steven
Maybe the freighter never came to the island in 2004 if there wasnt any crash
Other questions
Will Sawyer meet Christian in the abandoned Dharma town?
Why would Jacob ask Ben to get his team to build a runway (landing strip) if the whole purpose of the O6 coming back was to execute MIB’s plan to kill Jacob?
About the claimed. It seems they can be killed since Rousseau was by the mercenaries. Was Alex (as Rousseau’s newborn kid) claimed too?
Have you noticed that the cured wound (Ben’s and Said’s) never seem to be in the same place that they originally were?
Please Let us go back to the False Locke gang!!
February 10th, 2010 at 11:29 am
@Carol from Boston…here’s a screen shot of the ring Desmond threw away. Her ring and the one meant for Juliet were different.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Diamonds
February 10th, 2010 at 11:34 am
I am with Ryan. I didn’t want the writers to do some sort of reset on the timeline. Now that they are, however, I find myself enjoying it.
I *don’t* like the de ja vu. (Kate’s long look at Jack. Claire saying Aaron’s name as if she knew it). I don’t mind that things are turning out to be similar in this parallel timeline. The concept of fate has always been important in this show. I just don’t understand the cognition they seem to have with their parallel selves. As much as I am a huge fan of the Dark Tower series, these connections make this other timeline have less validity, even though the producers tell us both timelines are equally valid.
In terms of Claire’s sickness, I’m not certain she had to actually die to be infected. Even though she went through an explosion at the barracks, we certainly don’t see her disappear to the temple of a quick baptism. I’ve always wondered about a line from “Something Nice Back Home.” In it, Miles, Sawyer, and Claire are trekking with Aaron back to the beach after they leave Hurley, Ben, and Locke who are heading to Jacob’s cabin. Sawyer asks Claire how her head is. Her response:
“It’s better. Bit of a headache, but at least I’m not seeing things anymore.”
Next thing you know, Miles discovered Karl and Danielle’s body by hearing their voices. Is this a symptom of the sickness? Since Miles seemed to sense something amiss with Sayid in the temple, why didn’t he sense anything wrong with Claire? He did see her leave the campsite with a man she referred to as “dad.”
Oh answers…. I want them now! Oh wait. That means the season and the series will be over. I want them later!
February 10th, 2010 at 11:38 am
@ Carol from Boston:
My first thought about the ring was ‘It is Desmond’s ring’ but apparently not.
here is a screen cap:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1250-545.html
February 10th, 2010 at 11:39 am
@ Carol from Boston
Rob is Mac on It’s always sunny in Philadelphia, he is the also writer & producer. Hilarious show here is a link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXEKSNJBJRA&feature=related
Here is Rob’s first ep of lost (season 3, ep 7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_vcBJGdZrA&feature=related
enjoy!
February 10th, 2010 at 11:40 am
@Jane from IL – different ring from Desmond, here is Desmond’s ring.
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/2f7fbc11316274a2caf4bb3ca3e0bcb2
February 10th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Some things my husband and I liked about “What Kate Does”
- a welcome return to some of the character-based moments missing from last year. Amid all the running and poison pills and whiny Other guards, Sawyer’s grief over Juliet showed us just how much they meant to each other. And I for one interpreted Kate’s crying on the pier as not over herself, but over Sawyer’s loss and Juliet’s death.
- some welcome snarkiness from Miles “And Hugo here has taken over the leadership role…” and “I’ll be in the food court.” were two gems.
- I didn’t worry over why the sideflash was there. It ended up getting Kate and Claire to basically the same point they reached on the island, so it wasn’t out of character. Although kindly Dr. Ethan was a bit creppy; everything he said and did with Claire was a total 180, completely different from how he treated her on the island.
And congrats for your interview on NPR before the Lost premiere! Hope it brings some new listeners to The Transmission.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Oops, coolpeace I didn’t see that you posted it, we were posting at the same time. Thanks for the help!!
February 10th, 2010 at 11:58 am
@ Patty from snowy Virginia The episode titles have always been very telling which is why I thought the same thing about What Kate does as opposed to What Kate did but then I thought about it and What happened, happened and dead is dead so….
What I need to see for the remainder of this final season is a Richard Alpert centric ep and an ep that is “constant” centric to start.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Two thoughts on Dogen from rewatching:
What is the significance of him constantly touching his necklace?
And just for fun
I just realized the Sayid Torture scene reflected Wesley’s torture scene in ‘The Princess Bride’
February 10th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
GAHHHHH!!!!!!!
It’s NOT Dogen.
It’s DOGON
DOGON == NOGOD == NO GOD
February 10th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
I really need to watch this episode again – I didn’t feel completely underwhelmed, but it didn’t seem to have the oomph of the premiere. Not that I would expect it to, really, considering the breakneck pace of last season, I don’t mind a little bit of (for lack of a better word) filler, with just enough substance to keep my interest.
Who else will be claimed now? I have a feeling Sawyer will be, given what we’ve seen in the trailers, and perhaps even Kate. How great would it be to see Jack have to be on the opposite side of the line in the sand as the woman he seems to love? That’s at the core of what Lost has been – a tragedy wrapped up in a package of sci fi adventure. The only appropriate ending for Jack would be tragic, IMHO, and seeing this story play out should be fascinating.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Per usual, I was thoroughly entertained by this Ep! And I loved catching up on all these posts!
This season, I have vowed to listen to all the podcasts, maybe formulate a theory or two, discuss the show with as many people who will tolerate me and will savor EVERY SINGLE MINUTE of this last season of this show that has meant so much to me and my friends. I thank you all!!!
Remember to enjoy the ride, everyone!!!
February 10th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Regarding the appearance of Ethan Goodspeed, aka Ethan Rom in the hospital with Claire, was anyone reminded of the season 2 episode in which Claire starts to remember her time with Ethan when she had been taken to the Staff station and given injections?
Very interesting.
Recall that when Libby was helping Claire remember things, Claire had a vision of Ethan treating her OFF the island! Could it be that Claire in season 1 somehow had a vision from this alternate reality in which she was treated by Ethan off the island? And when you think about it, Claire being treated by Ethan at the hospital happened at roughly the same time (relative to flight 815) as Claire being taken by the others to the Staff station.
Of course maybe Libby was right and Claire was just putting 2 memories together.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
According to Lostpedia, it is spelled D-O-G-E-N.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
If MIB and Jacob are indeed equals, then it’s reasonable to expect that Jacob, too, has a smoke monster form. I think that’s a surprise for us further in the future. It comes to mind here because the narrative focuses us so much on protection from the MIB. I feel a set-up.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Underrated line from this episode:
After Kate says “I’m sorry for following you”…
Sawyer replies “Which time?” I think that sums up the frustration people feel towards Kate and her role on the show (which originally was supposed to be the leader when Jack was supposed to die in episode 1 per the original idea, I guess they couldn’t figure out what else to do with her).
Agreed on driving a stolen cab around LA for hours. One of many things that annoyed me.
The translator guy can’t put things in his own words? “There is no literal translation for_____”. Whatever man, what would you call it?! More cryptic nonsense to further my belief that Jacob and his boys aren’t all roses. I just can’t believe that Claire is gonna be evil, so for now I feel this reinforced my belief that MIB is actually the good guy – well, relatively speaking.
Was an okay episode for Claire, Ethan, Jack finally acting like the Jack we liked and not the wimpy whiner…. There were enough odd things that drug it down (Really Kate? They needed you to track them because the others that have been there forever and can move silently don’t know how to track?)
February 10th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
@ Ryan F. I don’t know that this would be the same time as Claire being taken to the medical station. What we are seeing in the flashsideways is just a few hours after the plane landed… I thought it was a few days before she was taken away at least.
Funny about pregancies in TV shows. I know when my wife went into labor it wasn’t that sudden “AAAAHHH!!!! He’s coming!” LOL….
February 10th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
@ JonY :
It was not that the Others could not track Sawyer themselves, it is that they needed Sawyer to want to come back of his own free will.
Kate: I can convince him to come back.
————
It should be clear by now that free will and choice have been important themes throughout Lost.
Think back to Ben speaking to Jack in season 3 : ‘I want you to WANT to save my life.’
Jacob tells Ben he can choose not to kill him. Jacobl also tell Hugo in the cab that its his choice to returm or not.
Sayid needs to take the pill willingly.
So they need Sawyer to want to come back. And Kate thinks she can deliver… but she also has another agenda; ask Sawyer to help her find Claire.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
#1.
@ Spalz Says:
February 9th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Anyone else notice the date on the ultrasound? Its a Month after the original flight crashed. 9/22/04 was flight 815, yet the ultrasound was done on 10/22/04. Could explain why Desmond was on the Flight…
- – Great catch!!! This means something…what it is I have no idea! After all the scrutiny that the producers know we will give the show this could NOT BE A MISTAKE!
Does this mean that the flight 815X was a month later? If so: SawyerX may not have been ‘kicked out’ of Austrailia. LockeX may HAVE gone on his walkabout. ChristianX may have not recruited Ana LuciaX OR he may have lasted a little longer before dying. I remember hearing the pilot’s name, but only know it was not LapidusX….does anyone here know if it was it the pilot in the 1st episode? Didn’t ClaireX have her own ticket, but maybe the psychic could not or did not convince her to go early. KateX perhaps waited for 1 more paystub before running out on the farmer…heck…do we even know these people?
#2.
I’m having a very hard time with the EthanX thing. Ethan was born to Horace and Amy. But they met in DHARMAville ; and Amy was with a guy named Paul who was killed by hostiles before they married….and what happened to Olivia who was Horace’s first…wife?
Does this verify that DHARMA still existed well past the bomb in both timelines? Something is here, I just can’t tell what — does anyone have any thoughts? Where are ya Yann? Is your nose bleeding?
February 10th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
@coolpeace – “Sayid needs to take the pill willingly.” I don’t know if we can say that Jacob is “good” or Esau “bad” (or the reverse), but the business with the pill underscored something about the Temple Others that doens’t fit with a positive interpretation of their motivations/actions.
Yes, Sayid had to take the pill willingly, but Dogen/Lennon lied to Jack about what the pill was/would do. Sayid wouldn’t take the pill from them willingly, and Jack wouldn’t give his friend poison. As much as I don’t like MIB/Locke, Jacob’s followers in the Temple don’t appear to be much better.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
‘kicked out’ of “Australia” – oops.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
@Futs:
Juliet delivered Ethan, this was before the bomb went off. Also the sub Sawyer, Kate, and Juliet was on was (supposedly) taking the women and children off of the island. So Ethan would have been there, getting off safely (along with Miles for any people who think he can’t exist in the flash-sideways, I’ve heard it on some podcasts).
@Coolpeace, I get the Other Others reason for letting Kate go, I just thought it was silly that Kate’s first excuse was to track Sawyer – then she mentioned being able to get him back.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Random thing…..
A lot of folks say that the smoke monster is really a judge or something. It judges you and kills you or whatever. There is a lot to support that, except what about the first time we saw it kill someone? It just yanked the pilot out of the plane and killed him, seemingly at random.
Then again, it was just behind Charlie and Jack right after that. Was it judging the pilot? Why? Were Jack and Charlie judged? Did they pass? Weird they would pass smoke monster judgement but weren’t worthy of being on the other’s list (the list back then, not the current list from Jacob). Was Locke judged as well?
I know, it doesn’t really pertain to this episode so feel free to ignore me, it’s just I recently discoverd the transmission and this blog so have a bunch of questions been burning for a long time.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
dumb question but does Richard know this group of Temple Others? There were two groups on the island when the Jack and Co.’s plane crashed (the first time)…
1) Group 1 are Others who had been there for a long time, Richard was one, and Kid Ben was taken to them.
2) Group 2—the Dharma group (who were not original Dharma people since adult Ben killed them) who sometimes dressed up as Others (when kidnapping Walt) and sometimes lived in the nice yellow barracks. But they still did medical research, i.e. Julliette, on the island.
Is this correct?
February 10th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
@ NuckinFuts The Pilot in the pilot episode was Seth Norris who was played by Greg Grunberg who played Sean Blumberg the TV Series Felicity which is also a J.J. Abrams show.
He is credited in LA X as follows:
- LA X: Part 1 (2010) TV episode (voice) …. Seth Norris
- Exodus: Part 2 (2005) TV episode (scenes deleted) …. Pilot Seth Norris
- Pilot: Part 1 (2004) TV episode (uncredited) …. Pilot Seth Norris
I did not notice that it was his voice, I will have to go back and listen again!
February 10th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
I thought Kate’s motivation was getting Sawyer to help her find Claire.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Who’s joining me in being on the side of Locke/MiB/Smokie?
February 10th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
@Jon Y
I speculated that smokey grabbed the first new arrival he could get to access memories and have the background info he needed to manipulate the rest.
For fans of Fringe, did you notice Dogen’s typewriter? It’s used in the former to communicate between parallel universes. JJ Abrams appropriated and reconfigured many of the concepts coming to fruition in Lost. He should have just stayed on board if he couldn’t bear to part with them. Fringe is excellent btw.
Doesn’t Claire exclaim “It’s coming” as she enters labor? That was rather ominous I thought, perhaps calling back to the dream with marble-eyed Locke and the blood-soaked crib. In addition to the sickness beginning to pay off, I thought they started to lay the foundation for the reintroduction of Aaron’s importance. I’m not sure if Claire’s pronoun means Aaron could be a conduit for the infection or not, but the whole conversation between Ethan and Claire resonated with deeper meaning. “Mother nature’s gotten a little ahead of herself,” “the boy’s out of position,” & “the boy likes to move around” were all very suggestive.
On the role of the translator: the parallel with Ben is that he and all previous leaders functioned as the voice of Jacob. Ben was the translator affording Jacob the distance he needed to make hard decisions. . This could be seen as a commentary on the way God works as well. Why does he always seem to need a prophet rather than just having a world wide dream telecast? Because free will matters?
February 10th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Side-ways Ethan….
-Otherville News-
Oliva & Horace Goodspeed are delighted to announce the arrival of their son Ethan, delivered healthily in Darmaville on a random month in 1977.
No way does Sideways Ethan look 27! It does mean that Oliva and Horace met off island right?! And that their gentics produced the indredible fast aging man (we blame Horace)!
February 10th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
I’m fascinated with the ‘easter egg’ connections between people both in flashbacks and this new ‘flash-sideways’… so Dr. Ethan is intriguing me.
The dialogue was pretty funny – poking Claire with needles and all. I laughed out loud…
But my question is why is he Ethan Goodspeed now? Not Ethan Rohm… Does this mean we will see Horace again (did he die in the Incident or was he gassed by Ben, I can’t remember) and is Amy his wife? She was the one dancing, right? or having the picnic with the guy Sawyer shot. Is she important? I feel every little actor is showing up and might be, not just a casting duplicate from Hawaii, but a purposeful placement!
Like the mechanic that cut Kate’s handcuffs off. I did a double take because I thought it was Mr. Friendly… then Kelvin (from the Hatch & Iraq with Sayid) – but based on the casting credits, he’s not.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
@ Ann Louise :
I agreed with you as to the Temple Others lying and all around sneakyness/manipulativeness. Which is also why I have yet to figure out in which camp to put my stake in, Jacob’s or MIB’s.
In all honesty, the more I think about Smokey and his various appearances, the more I wander if his form could be garnered by either the Jacob or the MIB entity. In other words, what if the Smokey form can be taken by either Jacob or the Man in Black.
We have seen Smokey has an entity that can:
Group A -
- indiscriminately kill : as in killing Seth Norris;
- be summonned : as with Ben in his basement;
- take the form of dead people : as with Yemi, Alex & Ben’s mother;
- be a judge and executioner : as for Echo
- be a manipulator : as with Alex to manipulate Ben
Group B -
- be a security system : as for the Temple;
- be a white light : as for Locke in season 1
- scan people and turn away : as with Kate and Juilet;
So maybe, group A Smokey is Evil entity, whether Jacob or MIB; and group B SmoKey is Good entity, whether Jacob or MIB??
Thoughts??
@ Rich in Cleveland: Good thought regarding the parallel between the translator and previous leaders being the voice of Jacob… or in fact Alpert being the voice of Jacob, since we now know that Ben never saw Jacob.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Had to get this down before I forgot it. Sorry if someone already posted it :O)
Suppose the “claiming” process was completed with a trip to the temple, but began with a simple touch. Jacob touched almost all of the Losties currently hanging out at the temple. What if he “marked” them in some way that caused them to become “claimed” upon their death? Thus Jacob’s instructions to Hurley to get Sayid to the temple, and instructions to the Others that they will be in trouble if Sayid dies without going into the pool first. Would this also explain why young Ben wasn’t “claimed” by Jacob’s touch before going into the temple.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
@Ryan F: if the actual timeline of Ethan kidnapping Claire on the island and Ethan in the hospital with claire in the flash-sideways are the ACTUAL TIME – that would be pretty great… hadn’t thought of that.
On another note – I want to thank Ryan & Jen for this blog in that I can commisserate with other losties without anyone completely jumping down my throat. My colleague that I traditionally watercooler with recently had an anurysm and is recovering from an induced coma, physical therapy, and all the stresses associated with that… I certainly wish her the best on her long road to recovery (I’m sure we’ll watch the season later on DVD if nothing else), but also miss the weekly ‘real time shop talk’ we would have throughout the season. I appreciate this blog to let me get my ideas out (even if they don’t come out very coherantly!) Thanks LOSTIES!
February 10th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
@ Connie et al
I believe the change in the ownership of the spring as indicated by its murkiness is the only thing that allowed Sayid to be claimed by the dark side. There would have been no risk of this when Ben underwent the procedure.
Found this on Lostpedia about Kate’s alias, Joan Hart.
“Kate uses the alias of Joan Hart. This is the name of a character in the 1978 film, Damien: Omen 2. In this film, the character of Joan Hart is a reporter who discovers that the identity of the antichrist is a young boy, and subsequently is killed in a bizarre accident.” Aaron??!!??!!
February 10th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
@Rich in Cleveland – Great catch on the typewriter used to communicate with the parallel universe in Fringe. If you take a look at the posts from “LA X Parts 1 & 2″, I commented about the “parallel universe” similarity between Fringe and LOST, especially in the most recent Fringe episode.
But another question that I have rattling around in my brain after rewatching “Flashes before your eyes” a couple days ago……. are we really seeing another timeline or parallel universe here, or are we seeing something similar to what Desmond experienced right after he turned the failsafe key? (just a thought)
February 10th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
I just want to give my interpretation of the name situation with Ethan.
Ethan’s surname is Goodspeed. Always has been, always will be. “Ethan Rom” was an alias he used when he infiltrated the Losties’ camp.
“Ethan Rom” also is an anagram for “Other Man”.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
ALL I CAN SAY WAS O’BOY WAS THAT BAD! LETS ADMIT IT PEOPLE IF THIS STORY LINE DOESN’T IMPROVE QUICK THE FINAL SEASON IS GOING TO BE A HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT.
WHO ON GODS EARTH THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO SHOW 10 MINUTES OF SAWYER CRYING? THEY SHOULD BE FIRED!
February 10th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
Sayid (bad) is the new Jacob. Just like Locke (good) is the new MIB. Get the roll reversal. Sayid is indeed changing, just like Locke did. Jacob knew what he was doing when he told Hurley to take Sayid to the temple.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
I have never been disinterested or bored with an episode of Lost–EVER. But wow, what a disappointment. I bristled all last week when folks voiced reservations of theoff-island time-line. “No, No, y’all. Have faith in the writers.”
Yes, yes, y’all. You were right!
What part of that off-island experience was at all believable? That on-the-run Kate would go back for Claire? (and if she told the truth–”Don’t worry, I didn’t take your money” then how did she pay the mechanic–Dodger from China Beach fame if anyone is trying to place him)? And then pregnant Claire gets in the car with her kidnapper? Really?????? Then its Girlfriend-roadtrip . . . to a conveniantly separated would-be adoptive mom and then off to the hospital. Could no one think of a better plot twist to get them there so we could delight in the Ethan “I don’t want to stick you with needles if I don’t have to” line?
I felt as though the senior writers who ensure every detail of plot and character all took a vacation so that the interns could have a shot before the show wrapped.
Please, please, please let this be the first & last time I ever complain about this show.
February 10th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
I got the new TV Guide today (dated 2/15-2/28) and it has a wonderful article about the Lost Premiere and under the Breaking News Section, there is an article “Lost Premiere Decoded”. This article has some clues to what we saw and the upcoming season. They have helped me rethink some theories. I don’t want to give away any spoilers, but if you are interested you should check it out. No answers are given, but now I have new questions. It talks about the smoke monster, Desmond, Sayid, the Temple and the flash sideways.
I will tell you one important point, the sideways flashes shouldn’t be thought of as alternate realities, they are parallel realities.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
@Pete I thought the same thing about Ethan. What name did he give Juliet?
February 10th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
@Briand, I was thinking along those same lines (angels vs. demons). I was thinking about the pool. If the pool is the fountain of youth – which would explain Richard’s age, then since the fountain comes from the “tree of life” would it be reasonable to assume that the island is Eden? If that were true, then maybe Smokey/Notlocke/MIB could be the serpent from that story. Locke’s “I want to go home” followed by that nightmare inducing glare really leads us to think of him as pure evil.
Part of me thinks that this idea is way to simple for Lost, but it makes sense. Thoughts?
February 10th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Ryan, Jen, and Y’all Everybody:
Kate redeemed? Nah. Still the PIA she always was. So why, why do the writers feel the need to inflict her upon us again? Character discovered, Kate evolving, No. I disagree with such sentiments concerning this episode or (sorry Kinves) previous seasons. I love Lost as much as anyone, actually revere it, but that does not mean weak is not weak. Writers- that was weak. Kate as character concept is weak.
Yo, slow up, Jason requested Sayid to temple. If Sayid is ‘claimed’, why does anyone think it is not Jacob doing the claiming? (Not MIB) And I think there is a lot of traction in considering Jacob ‘bad’, and MIB ‘good’ (or not AS bad). Remember, back in the first couple seasons it seemed like all you had to do was anticipate something particular and the writers would blow it out of the water? Well, the white/black thing looks that way to me. I’m not sure (who would be?) but Jacob is looking pretty suspect. @Knives- yeah, MIB is Locke, and as I said a ways back, Locke is God. Sign me up, I’m crossing the island with you, to march and trade jokes with Flocke/MIB/Esau. But… no Kate. And if we scoop up Sawyer, all good.
@ Lisa- Yes Miles rocked me all the way to the food court!
@Chris in Durham – You go! Saved me the time. With you all the way.
@ Jane from Ill – Nice tying the ring toss of Sawyer and Desmond.
@ManilaRaf – Juliette as Claire’s OB doc? Brilliant!
@Camille – The big conundrum- how can writers so skilled at detail, layers, and complexity use a yellow cab as a getaway car, and the car you go back and pick up your hostage in, and the car you take her to the hospital with? When the driver is, yes, an internationally at large murderer? Irritating beyond words, but I wrote it anyway.
@Aloha Oe’s Niece- Nice summary of The Other’s groupings, hierarchy, etc. This was also consuming my thoughts, including the Ben/Dogen relationship. Some shoeless, some suburban. Some mixing, some not. Strange, and why”
@Astro1derboy- Wow. Same flash I had a couple nights ago. When DID Locke become MIB’s pup? Locke was a broken husk getting on 815. The crash, the loss of plegia, long meditations on the beach looking out to sea, interrupted by Walt, to whom he tells ‘The Secret’. Is he not the first to look into the monster’s face? Then the Man of Action, Boar Killer, and the Keeper of the Island Ideal. I think that came from more than we have suspected.
@Beth in Sacto- The last season… THIS episode? You are on the money.
@NickinFuts- You are so right about things seeming much better about certain episodes when rewatched with better perspective. I am not being shy about this last episode, but I also had severe reservations when time travel was incorporated. Yet, yet… this one pained.
@Harold – Double Smokies? Yes, makes sense, and would help explain a lot to me. Too much being blamed on MIB, think Jacob is active in the spooky do.
All you saying “Hey its Lost, ease up. The best TV has to offer.” You’re right. And I will be crying in my beer May 24. But at this point this show has shocked rocked and amazed me. I will not be surprised if I look back and see What Kate Does as the seminal entry that pulled so much together and set the lens to focus everything to the end. But now? NOT!
I’m off to find Knives, and join Flocke. I wanna kick Alpert too. And toss one back with Ford.
To all of you, thanks. This is a fantastic group, and has enhanced my enjoyment of Lost tremendously. Would not think of going it without Ryan and Jen, and you. You are tremendous. I feel bad for anyone trying these waters without such fellow Losties.
February 10th, 2010 at 7:56 pm
@ M’Lady of the house
Me too.
Let this be the first and last time we EVER complain about the show.
Seriously.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
oops. re above. Meant ‘Jacob’ not ‘Jason’
February 10th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
i didn’t care for “what kate does.”
the only other time i remember feeling like that about a lost episode was after 316. the on-island stuff was decent, but i could care less about the off-island storyline. the whole “look, they’re interacting the same way they did on the island” angle doesn’t fly for me. those relationships developed due to the fact that these strangers were thrust into a traumatic situation that they didn’t understand and couldn’t escape from. it was their experiences on the island that helped forge those unlikely bonds. to see the same relationships develop in the disaster-free LA X reality within a day just doesn’t ring true for me. feels too Mulholland Drive-ish.
granted, this may all be explained and make perfect sense later, but at least for now, i find it hard to get invested in the UnLosties.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:31 pm
Okay, so here is a crackpot theory about the off-island story line, and why it may be more than just filler….what if the off-island story line didn’t come to pass by the bomb blowing up last season, but rather from the resolution of THIS season’s on-island plot. In which case, we’re seeing what happens if none of the events on the island had ever occurred. Just a theory.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:47 pm
@Russell from California “i find it hard to get invested in the UnLosties.”
agreed. if this show has a major weakness it is that instead of the main characters finding stuff from EACH OTHER they find it out from newly introduced characters. honestly every time some one new that wev’e never seen before opens their mouth, I roll my eyes. while there have been some good surprises as far as new people went (Ben, Daniel Farraday, my boyfriend Miles) so many of them have been aggravating and a waste of time (Nikki & Paolo, anyone?). i only pray that we don’t meet a single new person for the rest of the journey, but i have a feeling i am praying in vain.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
Off the fence! I’m with Knives & Docjkm on team Smokey after further thought & I’m bringing the last bottle McCutchens. Besides, if not then I’ll end up with Ben Linus it seems.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
HFC our first post ever and we fudge it up! We meant AMY GOODSPEED, sorry guys
The draw back of watching a download at 2am, it airs here tonight and we just couldn’t wait.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:45 pm
—————— Quote ———————–
But something from last episode has me wondering. Why did the other others have to take off Sayid’s Dharma jumpsuit when they were putting him in the pool? I mean, the temple leader specifically said – remove the jump suit. Not remove his clothes (ok, yes it’s TV…) but it seems just the jumpsuit needed to be gone before entering the murky waters. I’m wondering if that’s significant. It was ok to leave on his dirty, bloody dark duds.
—————————————————
In response to the above, I can’t say “why” specifically, but I guess the only difference between the Dharma jump suit and Sayid’s other clothes is the Dharma jump suit was from a different time period.
February 11th, 2010 at 12:20 am
Docjkm, Knives Monroe, and NuckinFuts have officially been claimed.
February 11th, 2010 at 1:19 am
People, listen to yourselves! I mean, really, go back and read all of the comments about this episode and try to make a decent argument that Lost is not a fraction of the show it used to be.
And guess what? It is us die-hard fans that feel the pain the most. No, I am not going to apologize for this ridiculous incarnation of Lost and spend endless hours trying to make sense the sheer lunacy of it.
You know it has jumped the shark when the character’s don’t even flinch at the supernatural extremes of the show. The entire storytelling technique of Lost has been to answer last week’s question with this week’s question, all building to what we think — and were promised by the producers — was a completely rational and logical explanation.
But that doesn’t fly anymore and all of the storylines are so redundant now. I thought they were joking about the Zombie season. Is there any other hack genre gimmick that they have not thrown in the mix to hide the fact that emperor’s has been naked for a few seasons now. I guess Jack has not been revealed to be a robot and aliens haven’t descended on New-Otherton… yet.
I have a cynical idea that I pray is not true. Could Damon Lindelof be applying the same pragmatic yet hackish technique he used in Star Trek to hide the seams of his quilted storylines? You know: the time travel and alternate universes that conveniently explain away any discrepancy that fans will inevitably discover when the show wraps up.
“Oh, that decision we made in the writer’s room in season two doesn’t match the decision we made in season five because… because… the time lines have been altered! Yeah… that’s the ticket.”
Get it?
No, I don’t. And you’ve taken the best show on television and collapsed it under it’s own incomprehensible mythology.
At least we’ll always have season one and that primal, original motivation to get off the island. Hell, I even liked the sci-fi intrigue of Hanso and the purple sky finale of Season Two.
But from season three on — when they turned the mysterious others into a mundane suburb with a book club — they drifted somewhere else. I have watched every show since, but I really don’t care anymore. You can’t care when there are no rules to their universe.
Writers of Lost: you went waaaaaay too supernatural guys.
And the Oceanic 6 storyline and everything from Season 4 on is literally a betrayal of the original premise. Later when time travel was confirmed, I wanted to puke. At least at the execution of the idea.
And now we have season 6 with… wait for it… wait for it… new others! How ingenius!
I miss the days when we all thought is was cool that there was a polar bear on the island. Now we are debating whether Sayid is a good zombie or a bad zombie.
Really? Wow.
February 11th, 2010 at 2:01 am
@ James. ^^
You’re not wrong.
But you’re also not entirely right.
Sure the show doesn’t have the same essence as S-1.
But our characters might as well believe in anything after they’ve seen an island disapear, and when they return their in 77?
Ofcourse a healing pool doesn’t seem too out of the ordinary.
Nevertheless James, this only hurts more because we are in the final season.
But I think it will pay off.
The writers deserve us to be patient. ITS THE LEAST WE (AS FANS) CAN DO!
Let’s face it, they jumped the shark with the pilot.
But thats why we loved it, because they got away with it.
We’re in for the ride, and trust me it will pay off.
we just have to be patient.
Next week will be sure to satisfy us.
I really…really..
hope so anyways.
=)
Heres to taking that leap of faith…
Oh, and I’m still on the Man In Locke’s side.
TEAM DARK!
February 11th, 2010 at 2:15 am
Ethan is Goodspeed now, because he was evacuated with the rest of the children before Jughead went off, so he never joined the Others and kept his father Horace’s last name.
Question: how does Dogen know Claire is Jack’s sister? She didn’t know that, so the only person that might have told him is Christian, unless Jacob wrote it down on his list. Or, maybe Christian told Cabin Claire, and something happened afterward to Cabin Claire to make her into Clairielle.
February 11th, 2010 at 2:56 am
@Knvies I am on Team Dark too, I have been since last week when I rewatched the finale. MIB just wants to move on and be home while Jacob is getting a kick out of his little experiments.
Again we are on the Wizard Of OZ theme, he just wants to go home.
@Stubble – the others have always kept extensive files they knew everything about every one. Even though Dogen is in the temple he is still an other.
@James – yes the show can be crazy, but above all it is still fun, it still makes me think, and I’ll miss it when it is gone.
Thanks for the all the theories everyone. I have Wednesdays off which works out well for figuring out the latest episode. Of course this means I am not getting much done on Wednesdays anymore. Time to get back to reality, wish I had a parallel reality where I could be on vacation.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:24 am
My husband thinks that our original team of losties have been “called’ to the island many many times over the last few centuries/millennia maybe. That’s how Jacob can approach a child (Kate and Sawyer at 7 and 10 or whatever) and know that they are who he needs in the future. They keep coming back, again and again as whoever they are at the moment but their souls are the same (possibly people from the black rock, old Others that died in the 70’s, things like that..)
Anybody agree?
When Kate and Sawyer were on the dock, I screamed at the tv ‘if she hits on him, I’m going to freak out!’, thankfully, she didn’t..
OK, great comments everybody, love reading them all..
February 11th, 2010 at 4:55 am
I will only post once for once… (everyone knows I am a liar just as Ben but this time I will do it. I have to agree with some of you and either they succeed to blow my mind with the next answers they give us or I will easily point big inconsistencies in the story… damn Kate’s episodes!)
@Rich: Kudos on the baptism (I almost posted “how come Rich didn’t came up with that” lol). I think it is now quite clear that it was baptism… Before you are taken by the darkness (going to hell) you need to be “cleansed” from your sins. But in the strange “Others world” world of sins.
Ok, the most important part: MIB is right! “you brought them here. They fight, kill, corrupt…”
Dogen confirmed that there are no children for the Others since some time and that they are brought to the Island (by Jacob). What do we know of the Others past and their attitude? Mihail, a former soviet union warrior/killer. Ben, liar manipulator killer. Dogen, manipulator torturor poisoner. Aldo, moron warden killer. And when you are taken as a child and brought up by those people you end up: Ethan, a psycho abductor hanger instead of a nice doctor.
Most of you think that Rousseau’s team as been “claimed”. I clearly don’t. How do the Others knows Rousseau’s name? I think they were brought to the Temple and “cleansed”. And we know how the Others interact with other people if they don’t have a list when they meet them, they shot arrows (Ben was nice to tell her to go the other way when she hears whispers… But Ben is always nice with young mothers).
Hence, Claire à la Rousseau’s way… “claimed” or “unclean” or “sick”. I would say “still human” (like… screaming when you are tortured) and just saved Jin from being killed by the Others.
What is my main problem with what they are doing: I think they let us believed that Jacob was representing free will and was preventing MIB to “go home” and that MIB was a killer (Pilot, Eko…) that “judged” people because he had powers. But now team Jacob are killers, team MIB are killers, Sayid Sawyer Kate (and Jack in some extend to his father) are killers… How can I care anymore about these people who are all cold hearted killer? How could I connect myself emotionally with so “wrong” individuals? I don’t even care if they do things for the “right” reasons, what is happening in this universe is just wrong and now I really hope they all disappear by the end and that the alternate universe (where you use your abductor as a taxi) ends up the only one remaining, where people are actually human.
PS: Claire was abducted by Ethan before giving birth with Kate. Now it seems that she got abducted by Kate before giving birth with Ethan.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:29 am
@Yann – your post makes me sad. Yes, the show is very violent, in fact I cannot think of one episode where someone hasn’t been beaten or killed or blown up.
But I have felt that the show was ultimately about redemption. Everyone has good and bad in them. I hope that the end of this series shows that good can overcome evil and that given the choice, people will choose the good. That free will can change fate.
Sayid had chosen to redeem himself with doing good before being forced back to the island. In fact Sayid is the one person who did not come back with free will. Maybe that is why coming back did not work out for him.
February 11th, 2010 at 5:40 am
@ Rich in Cleveland. My brother and I discussed the change in the water also. We said the same thing that the water not being clear when they dunk Sayid is why he is “claimed” and I am assuming that the water is not clear due to Jacob’s death and MIB taking over the Temple. With that said, it brings up two more questions. 1. If the water was clear back when Ben was dunked in it and therefore he was not “claimed” by the MIB why the hell is he so dam bad?? Is it just his nature?? 2. Why would they say Sayid was “claimed” like Claire? Who died then to make the water change to murky?
February 11th, 2010 at 6:01 am
One last thing before going to work, (sorry to be posting so much).
Another reason I am on Team Smokey/dark:
Jacob has brought people to the island to prove some point, not sure of what it is yet. But the reason it has never worked is because Jacob has stacked the deck. He cheats. There has never really been “free will”. Jacob has created the others. In creating them he has created the “enemy” and manipulated them into thinking they are the good guys. All evidence points to them being the bad guys.
Dharma is a non-violent society yet they were all “purged” as if they were evil. The others then took over their territory.
Oceanic 815 would have been fine if left alone. They would have just lived on the island, trying to make the best of a bad situation. Instead they were kidnapped, beaten and killed. The Oceanic 815 group had to fight back to survive. This forced some of them to become like the others and do bad things (Michael shooting Libby and Ana Lucia, Sayid killing, etc). They had to fight against the enemy – the others.
Maybe Widmore isn’t trying to regain control over the island, maybe he is trying to elminate Ben and stop the others from repeating this cycle over and over.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:15 am
A thought struck me last night as I lay in bed. What’s going on with the rest of the Ajira survivors? Will we ever see them again?
February 11th, 2010 at 6:23 am
Ryan and Jen,
Thank you so much for the Transmission! My wife and I live in Maryland and we are big fans! We loved the Season 3 re-watch podcast and we are looking forward to your coverage this season. LOST takes on a whole new dimension when combined with your wonderful podcast and blog. We love you guys and “You All Everybody” out there in Transmission land.
A few thoughts so far on the direction this season is headed in after three episodes:
1- Dogen rocks! I only like new characters that add value and he is not disapointing so far. Although if Jack and Dogen play catch with the baseball ala Mr. Friendly and Jack with the football. I might have to throw a hold on a minute flag on Darlton for cheezziness!
2- So I think I get the basic idea of what Darlton is doing with the 2004 Flash sideways crew and 2007 original LOSTies. I am not sure how they will do this, but I think we will see the 2004 Flashies merge in 2007 with the Originals on the Island in the Final episode. It is like this… imagine two tall mirrors side by side. Both mirrors show the same person(the soul) but one mirror shows the 2004 Flash version and the other shows the 2007 real time version. Currently the show is showing us the two mirror versions as if we were standing say ten feet away from the mirror. The closer the soul part gets to the side by side mirrors the closer the refelections come together. The question at the end of this is which mirror will end up being broken… the Flash mirror or the Original version. I think what we will see is that some people will retain their original self and others will venture on as their alternative self, but on the same time line and in the same soul. So I am not suggesting that Jacob splits souls or MIB does either and no this is not a rehash of Horcruxes the LOST version. I think what we are going to see is that the Island makes people whole again and thus its purpose is to maintain the balance of Good and Evil or Black and White in the universe.
3 – I hope that the Flashies are not just what if versions of our original cast. That would be cheap and I hope Darlton does not go there. I kind of think that “What Ever Happpened, Happened” as a universal theme is evident in the 2004 time line now as we are seeing our Flashies go through the same experieinces that they were destined to live through Island visit or not. I think we are going to see Locke walk, because Jack fixes him. Kate will play a part in Aaron’s life now that she is connected again with Claire. I can only hope that we see the Flash version of Sawyer meeting Juliet somehow off island.
4 – The biggest mystery of all…how the heck are Deadwood and LOST linked? Well when LOST ends, do yourself a favor and watch Deadwood! Another awesome show and it is amazing how many Deadwood actors are showing up on LOST. If Ian McShane shows up as the Captain of the Blackrock this season I will flip my lid. Boy would he make a good Lost bad guy!
Keep up the great work. 13 more episodes to go… oh the horror!
Welshie loves LOST!
February 11th, 2010 at 6:39 am
Apart from Holloway’s wonderful performance. This episode fell flat on it’s butt on all fronts. Atleast for me.
The fact that Darlton chose S6 to introduce yet another batch of characters rankle with me.. hard.
February 11th, 2010 at 7:47 am
OK, if you don’t like DOGON == NOGOD how about DOGEN==NEGOD or “Of God” if you use Ne from Italian. So he may be Of God, which makes way more sense to me given my theory on Jacob is good and smokey/MIB is the devil.
February 11th, 2010 at 8:28 am
In the temple scene I think I saw a hieroglyphic image of the sub. Wonder what other symbols were on the wall and how old they were.
Also, I didn’t see a bullet hole in Sayid’s shirt. Does this mean the water somehow turns back time for anything submerged in it? Maybe the water turns you back 108 minutes. He still had scarring from the bullet, so maybe not.
February 11th, 2010 at 8:54 am
@ beth in sacramento- you’re hilarious!
@mindstage- I like your angel theory, it made me think…about posting this stuff!
It seems to me like the writers are really shoving the eastern spiritualism in our faces this season, more so than the science of seasons past. I think the barefootedness shown was a signal that the Temple operated similarly to an ashram or temple in the conventional word-it is customary to remove one’s shoes to symbolize not bringing in material attatchment or grossness to a sacred space.
A lot of this episode had very subdued colors with touches of red. I noticed this with the crazy defibrillation box with red wires used to “test” Sayid. The red books on the table in the Temple greenhouse, Hurley’s red shirt, the nurses all had maroon scrubs, Claire had a red hoodie and necklace, the garage was mostly gray with red gasoline cans. There was definitely a heart metaphor going on too- Aaron’s heartbeat stopped, then it was going too fast, Sayid’s infection is moving toward his heart, Sawyer’s heart is broken, the Temple may be the heart of the island, Hurley is in charge and is the most soft-hearted, Kate has never been sure of the path of her heart. A lot of Eastern religions and spiritual practices view the path to God is through Self realization often with an emphasis on the heart being the seat of the soul, rather than the mind. (I’m going somewhere with this, really!) Anyway, as a result of these observations I have developed a crackpot theory:
I think that Jacob and MIB were to be sent on a mission on earth(from divinity/God) to help humankind evolve or Self-realize so that they may break their cycles of reincarnation and become liberated souls-forever returning and living at Home- heaven, the Ultimate, divine universe, whatever. As to how they would help with this process, they were given a choice. The two beings would from a trinity with the island, (the power of creation, growth and development(jacob) and destruction(MIB). One could be a non-corporeal supernatural force, with lots of powers, entrusted with the job of being like a cosmic vacuum cleaner. This being would assess the humans, scan them for weakness, obsessions, addictions ect. and then destroy and remove these obstacles. The other being would be born a lowly human, and would have to follow the path of Self realization and once attaining this level would be a human guide, guru or prophet of sorts, nurturing human growth once the obstacles had been removed by the “vaccum”. The two beings would from a trinity with the island, (the power of creation) growth and development (Jacob) and destruction (MIB). These beings would work together in unison with the island until all the souls had attained liberation and then everyone would be free to go home. So MIB chose the flashier job, but after awile he grew tired and resentful of the humans making the same mistakes over and over, life after life, prolonging his separation from the divine state. “I’m dissappointed in all of you”…
The human birth was actually the better choice, because Jacob was revered and loved, not feared like Smokey. MIB felt like he was tricked by Jacob. His hatred for Jacob and humanity grew and he started to pervert his powers, claiming souls by obscuring the heart(the path home), destroying the ability to procreate (no more souls) so that he can be free from his duties. For some reason Jacob is exiled, and has not seen his people for a really long time. He may have not fought back against his death because he didn’t have the capacity. The destructive force was MIB’s responsibility- so Jacob may not have this quality. I think that the Others suck because they are following a shell of a system. They have all the makings of a good deciple: devotion, detatchment, loyalty, obedience, faith but they are missing the element of love. They have no love. Without Jacob’s direct influence, there is no example of love. This is why Hurley is so important, and why Jacob chose him to represent. Hurley only makes decisions from his heart, from love. Hurley will save all!
I’m not quite sure how MIB is planning to go home, or if he even sees the divine as his home anymore. I was thinking that he may try to claim a human birth for himself, possibly Aaron. This may be the “real” loophole. Or he may be off to the Temple to kill Richard- a liberated soul “nice to see you out of those chains” and hitch a ride. Ok, that sounds crazy. I’m done now:)
February 11th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Holy crap that was long, sorry!
February 11th, 2010 at 10:05 am
@Kait
I liked that, very thoughtful! But hard to imagine how this would be explained on a TV show.
February 11th, 2010 at 10:19 am
I wonder if there is a lack of electrical/modern devices in the temple area because they would interfere the ability to diagnose the sickness with the electric torture machine? Plus how do you wire an old temple with electricity? Dogen’s plants are getting sunlight through skylights.
February 11th, 2010 at 10:19 am
loved the show, but I just wanted to point out (and if you mention this in your podcast I will be estatic) that Justin was played by a Canadian Actor who played BLT in the orginal Degrassi Junior High and High!
haha.
Looking forward to hearing your podcast on this episode!
February 11th, 2010 at 11:56 am
Ok I read some of your posts and I have a new theory that help me cope with all that, it is not entirely formed yet but here it is:
It is all but a game between Jacob and MIB. Like in a child game if you touch someone you “claim” him unless he dies. Jacob has the right to go off Island and MIB doesn’t, he wants to be able to go home. The people you have “claimed” can’t kill each others… That’s the “Rules”. Unless they are able to “free willingly” get killed (like Ben free willingly didn’t go off Island and thus sacrificed his daughter or killed Jacob). The leaders of the clans are of course master deciver because they need to be able to “free willingly” get people into doing things they should not do usually (include killing).
Morality: They are all bad. They are all just playing. The losties which were not “claimed” could be killed disregardly but now Dogan has to watch over all the “claimed” one (by the “light” side if you ask HIS point of view) because if they go out of the Temple they could rejoin MIB team and they would change size.
That explains “the rules”, that explains “the sickness”, that explains “I want you to want to do it” (as Michael which had been claimed (remember the “the Island won’t let you suicide”)) “I want you to take the pill”, that explains the total disregard for other human life that don’t come into play, that explains why they were brought here.
February 11th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
I am beginning to wonder if LOST is just a hugely involved game of capture the flag between MIB and Jacob, with the Temple being “home”base. Would sort of love that, actually.
Each round (set of new players) the game becomes more and more elaborate as the quest for loopholes (and winning) in gameplay becomes more difficult with each round (Egyptian times, Blackrock time, Dharma time, 815 time, etc.). Gotta think this through some more…
February 11th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
New random theory: The ash that seems to confine or protect the Smoke Monster is burned Banyan tree. We’ve seen that characters hiding under the trees are not harmed by the smoke monster, for example when Kate and Juliet are being attacked or when Boone and Shannon are being hunted in Boone’s hallucination. Since both seem to protect from the Monster, I think it would make sense that the ash was made of the Banyan trees.
February 11th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Watched “What Kate Does” a second time and am marginally changing one of my theories regarding the island and The Others.
I’ve always posited that the special properties of the island are the reason the Others, the long-term inhabitants, are unable to carry children to term. The strange time properties making it impossible for them to make it past 7 months of pregnancy. This was why once the DI was purged, The Others needed Juliette to come to the island and find a away for them to reproduce sucessefully. I also believed this was why they kidnapped the children. To give them young children to grow the population artificially.
I still hold to these ideas, but I wonder now if they are concommitant reasons as well. Could the ’spring’ inside the temple, which one assumes the Others have all at some point been baptized in, somehow cause the proceative problems as well. If so, how odd, given that Taweret is a god of fertility. If the spring (and the island itself) holds properties which make healing and longevity possible, is the impossibility of procreation the price paid for such ‘blessing’.
Also, I wonder now if ‘the sickness’ is another reason The Others would take children…protecting them before they could become infected. The scene where Ben kidnaps Alex and then is confronted by Widmore who demands the child be killed, somewhat defies this theory, but it could be simply because by this point a) it would be believed the child might already be corrupted or; b) the tension between Widmore and Ben was by that point simply clouding any decision that was made.
One other point regarding ‘being claimed’. In Season 3 when Colleen is killed, she is dressed in white and buried at sea in a funeral pyre…could this ceremony be a way of protecting the dead from being ‘claimed’?
February 11th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
@docjkm – I don’t know if this one was or will prove to have been seminal, but it does advance Kate’s story a lot.
I’m really surprised how the majority of people writing here don’t find Kate sympathetic or even interesting. I’m very disappointed in all of you. I watched the ep twice and found it really weak because I couldn’t reconcile Kate crying there by herself on the jetty, after Sawyer walks away.
Jen (of this blog) suggested that Kate might be realizing how she’s lying to herself about finding Claire, that she really still has feelings for Sawyer and now hears from him that he has deep feelings only for Juliet. Kate is realizing she failed, due to her self-involvement or even self-absorption, to make it last with either of the men she found attractive and adequate for her. She’s realizing she’s dug herself into a deep existential hole.
So, I watched it a third time and I think that’s the ticket to appreciating this ep. I agree the writing didn’t quite pull it off, you need to flesh out the content and substance of Kate’s feelings a bit too much, but, with this idea, the episode becomes a healthy whole and Kate resumes being a real, complicated person. E.g., she sacrifices for Claire in the new reality but finds herself without someone’s hand to hold in the island reality.
The b-story about Sayid and Claire will continue, but Kate’s development and this episode, at least with this elaboration, is well-drawn.
@KnivesMonroe and friends- Yes, CBD, Claimed By Darkness. Jacob is very, very earnest, but then, Locke, our new favorite son, showed a lot of understanding and compassion, too.
@Yann- You are quite right, all the Losties, except Hurley, Rose and Bernard, are prepared to murder (Hurley and Bernard are prepared to kill only in self-defense). Even the upstanding Jack loses himself (“Through the Looking Glass”). Your theory that you take off with might be right, but needs more evidence.
February 11th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Overall, a poorly written episode. I found it preposterous that, in the side flash, Kate would dump Claire off on a street corner, take awhile traipsing around LA in a (STOLEN) taxi to find someone who could remove her handcuffs, trust that same guy enough to lower her weapon and go in a back room and change, take the same stolen taxi back to where she got rid of Claire only to find her STILL sitting there (an hour later?), continue driving that taxi around LA in search of an address she’d never been at (since when did Kate become the “LA MapQuest Queen”?), then drive Claire to the hospital and hold her hand during the doctor’s visit. If you want a REAL “holy freaking crap,” that’s what all that is. Very lazy writing. Meanwhile, back on the island, we have the poison pill that has to be taken willfully by Sayid. Why? If they wanted to kill him, just take him out and shoot him in the head. It worked for Rosseau in dealing with her friends. Just too much mumbo jumbo in this episode.
On a good note, the crying scene with Sawyer and Kate was top notch acting….really loved it. Seeing Claire as the new Rousseau was intriguing…it didn’t seem to me that she was as evil or sick as Bruce Lee made her out to be. Also, Kate’s faint recollection of Claire and Jack was good stuff, probably the best part of the side flashes…will be fun to see where LOST goes with this. Oh, and Arzt in the street made me smile…can never get enough of Arzt.
Hoping that next week’s episode is a whole lot more interesting.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
As concerns theory that LostiesX (off island) is the reality if nothing we have watched over the last 5 years happened? Who cares? Why invest the 5 years to watch something contrived and boring. The last 5 years were certainly contrived, but they were not boring. I don’t buy it. Don’t think the writers would either.
McCutcheon from the bottle brutha! I see team Flocke garnering the extant gunslinger Ford, and actually wouldn’t mind Linus lying for our side. I’ve long thought that he, like MIB, is misunderstood. Desmond is the free agent, and I think contract terms could be arranged.
@James – join us. We ARE with you. I almost drowned in my own vomit on the first travel in time, yet here we are, keeping the faith. Knives talked me down from that bridge, and yes, I have to keep reminding myself (at times) that this is worth it, that Lost is the best time I have ever had with the tube. It IS. Like any genius, it is maddening, yet genius undeniable. And the maddening is also attractive. @Carol from Boston, KnivesMonroe, NuckinFuts – Join arms, and sing about the girl from Nantucket. And pass that bottle, brutha. @Yann – Your pain is OUR pain. @Carol – my thoughts precisely. Jacob cheats, interferes, and games his way along. MIB/Flocke has had to swallow his ____ for too long, long enough to drive him to create the loophole and kill the A__h___. Welcome to Team Flocke, Team Dark, Sistuh.
@Kait- Very nice. Nice theory, and well articulated. I am attracted.
Most of us seem to agree that this last episode was the morning after a serious binge enjoyed with the season opener. Cotton mouth, nausea, and headache. We are all each others aspirin and fluids. I have faith, strong faith that we will be rewarded and soon.
Meanwhile, I headed out to find Flocke. And Long Live Lost, Ryan, and Jen.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
@HeyKir
Only thing is: Darlton stated in an interview in EW last week that MIB’s home is NOT on the island. Fun thought though!
@Kait.
Fascinating theory.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
@ Glenn: Dang it!!! lol
February 11th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Just clued unto this. Has anyone else noticed that of the remaining 6 original losties (not including Claire or Locke), 4 of them – Jack,Kate,Sawyer,Hurley were the ones marched to the others by Michael at the end of season 2 and the other 3 (Jin, Sun, and Sayid) were the ones who first saw the four toed statue while rescuing them. Ok, I’m reading way too much into this…
February 11th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
@ Yann- Along with your potent observations of the bad and the badder, one of the many bizarre things about Lost has always been the number and volume of gunsandammo on and about this island. AND the rather amazing skill in their use, possessed by almost all. I do not think Hurley’s struggles beside the van with the pistole (S6 opener) was a throwaway. Hurley is unique in his ineptitude. Almost everyone else IS a gunslinger.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Hell! In reviewing, Hurley has killed, with the Dharmobile. Claire, Charlie, Desmond… killers all. The list of non-killers is a pathetically slim one. Why, bruthah? Musings on my trek through the jungle. Flocke, has to be somewhere between the shadow of the statue and the temple, no?
February 11th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
There seems to be a lot of complaining that the characters’ actions “aren’t realistic”. I don’t want to outright disregard anybody’s opinion, but it comes down to the fact that LOST is fiction and always has been. I’d argue that it’s been science fiction. One of the hallmarks of science fiction (to me, anyhow) is that characters often don’t act in a realistic manner.
Just my fifty cents (two cents adjusted for inflation).
February 11th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
TEAM DARK!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa4X_HuFhK8
My review of this latest episode =)
February 11th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
IF MIB can inhabit dead bodies, why can’t Jacob? I think the “claiming” idea is an interesting one. We can’t just assume that Christian is MIB, he could be Jacob.
For that matter the two smokey’s theory has merit too. So many posts here I am not sure of who thought that up. Can someone remind me?
What if the two smoke monsters had a fight and the statue was destroyed in that fight and also the reason the Black Rock was crashed in the middle of the Island. It would take a lot to destroy a statue of that size, but smokey could do it. Wouldn’t that be a cool fight to watch?
@Digidoug – good observation and I think it definitely means something.
February 11th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Hi guys!
I am checking in from the outback, my search for Locke in our walkabouts have not shed any light to the mystery and I have still not been able to figure out why this country is the key (Hurley said that back in S5 IIRC).
Well this episode certainly did shed some light on people being claimed by the black monster, so maybe Locke was claimed back in S1 when he was dragged by the smoke monster who knows.
On the other side this episode did really impress me… …and are we going to go through the entire season with the two timelines, it is a bit frustrating.
So had the Losties been pawns in this eternal fight between the man in black and the man in white, hmmm… ….I hope we will get some answers soon as we only have 12 or so weeks to go.
I will let you know if I find any clues down here
You guys rock as always…
G’day to you!
Ilias
February 11th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Just caught this on DarkUFO’s Lost website: the date on Claire’s ultrasound picture was a continuity error as confirmed by Gregg Nations. If you want to check it out for yourselves got to darkufo.blogspot.com click on “Episodes” and then click on “Mysteries”.
Next to The Transmission, this is my favorite Lost site.
February 11th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
I think that even more than central to the Jack. Jack is our anchor, our constant maybe. I think we all feel like Jack actually. We thought we knew during 2seasons where this was going, then by the 3rd we wanted to have some form of conclusion (go home) and at the end of this season we were all wanting “to go back!”. The 4th season was a shocker because nothing went according to plan. The 5th season we didn’t knew where it was leading us anymore and we were tagging along hoping to find the answers and by the end of the season we were resolute we were coming to a conclusion, that it would all make sense after the bomb exploded. And now, we don’t know what to trust anymore and sick of it all we are ready to take the next bitter pill if we have to. But the writers seems to tell us: we won’t let you chock on a bitter pill… enjoy the tea.
February 12th, 2010 at 12:58 am
@Carol: Dharma folks were not good guys. They did not follow the truce, they created the Arrow to think on how to get rid of the Others and they created the Tempest which was build to make poison (but used before them by Others).
The army intended to put an hydrogen bomb on Island so there were definitively not “nice”.
I won’t rule out the Jacob team yet… but I hope the stakes are very very high to allow them do such things (and I am still dumbfold by the “claimed” one on Jacob sides as I posted earlier).
Ok I am definitively a liar now (since I keep posting)… I hope that I will be “claimed” and granted Immortality or just the “insensivity” the Others seems to get: they keep getting hurt (Ben or Mihail who says “thank you” when thrown into a sonic fence) yet they don’t seems to suffer pain (and that’s why they tested that on Sayid I guess). Have we ever seen an Other “suffer”? They didn’t lost their Innocence… they lost their soul/heart and thus can’t feel pain. That is the purpose of Buddhism! Namaste!
Ben was the loophole because eventually he did got sick, he felt pain when they killed his daughter… and yet he was the leader: he was the loophole.
February 12th, 2010 at 1:24 am
Waw… Damon Lindeloff when berseker on twitter!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S3LVyuVnOfI/AAAAAAAAxqA/G9wUfDrO1Bk/s1600-h/SS-2010.02.10-15.50.08.png
I totally understand that he says if you think this is filler go watch something else… I totally understand! That was not a filler at all and I don’t understand that someone could say that. I said why I am a bit dumbfold… I think they gave a lot in last episode and I am not sure I really want to go care about any size because the shape of things to come is really all about “let s go kill people” because we are right and they are wrong. I don’t like this philosophy. I always thought that being “good” didn’t meant killing “bad”.
February 12th, 2010 at 2:26 am
Jorge Garcia blog is very funny (spoiler alert about what centic episode next week), it’s hilarious to see that they don’t know what is going on either.
I think from now on I will live by a Beatles song:
Speaking words of wisdome, let it be… there will be an answer! Let it be!
February 12th, 2010 at 4:17 am
@ Carol from Boston: I timidly raise my hand as to the two Smokey theory.
Well, I just thought that if we think of Jacob and MIB as two similar entities – that perhaps if the MIB can transform into a grey pillar of Smoke; then perhaps Jacob can also manifest as a grey pillar of Smoke.
In fact why not think that these two entities have similar powers of transformation. Both can take the form of various dead people to use to try and out wit the other.
These would explain, as mentioned in my other post above, the various descriptions of Smokey.
Just a thought.
February 12th, 2010 at 5:32 am
Not timidly enough, Coolpeace. Scan back to Harold, February 10th, 2010 at 1:04 pm.
February 12th, 2010 at 6:11 am
Kudos to the few of you who get that Kates’ contribution to the storyline as a whole is NOT a waste of time — she is obviously an important thread linking Jack, Sawyer, and Claire — all shown in various levels in the last episode — I agree with Lindelof — show some respect for their writing, even if it feels lazy or trite — When I watched Avatar (as I’m sure the majority of you have), my thought was that THAT was lazy, simplistic, writing without any imagination (sure the images were amazing) — but I NEVER feel that way about LOST which always keeps me gripped — sure, I find certain characterers annoying too — as examples: in season one I could not stand Shannon (so happy that she was NOT on the plane this time ’round) and I never enjoyed Claire either (but now have to put up with her re-entrance) — anyhoo… it is more important what the characters bring to the whole, so since it is THEIR (CC & DL) story I am happy trust their choices.
Available on the last post-set, I caught the CC/DL appearance on the Jimmy Kimmel show after the season premiere — the comment that resonated most for me was their declaration that the MYSTERIES that will be ANSWERED by the final thud are the ones of concern (or importance) to the Losties themselves, and NOT necessarily to the audience at home.
I’ve enjoyed every minute of this show, and will continue to do so for years to come through DVDs. I love this blog, especially Ryan and Jen’s opening analysis each week, and reading all the brilliant catches and theories posted here. Thanx to all!!!
February 12th, 2010 at 6:58 am
@Kait
Nice presentation. I especially enjoyed the heart list. Yes, we often focus on the creative power of the divine, but simultaneously this same power is actively taking the world apart again. Here in Cleveland, we have a prime example in statuary of Siva, the Hindu deity, that clearly illustrates this idea. As he is engaged in the cosmic dance, Siva uses two hands to shape the world while the other two wield destructive fire.
@Yann
I liked the idea of the rules governing how the two sides treat each other, sort of a metaphysical Geneva convention. However, if Rousseau and Claire were claimed by the darkness, wouldn’t this be a contradiction because they have both killed others? I think a better analogy for the book of laws would be the dstiction between samurai and ninja. One is bound by honor and service and the other is a self-interested mercenary.
Which leads me to my declaration of support. Team Jacob here. Maybe I’m just a loyalist like Mikhail or spent too much time in room 23, but I still see Jacob as the side of light. Even when the others start reverting to those persistent human flaws, this happens because Jacob allows them free reign to make their own choices. Plus, for as long as Ben’s been the leader, I believe the others have been deceived by Unkocke and have acted under his orders.
Defend the island!
February 12th, 2010 at 7:03 am
@Welshie loves LOST! – I loved Deadwood and have been interested in its actors we’ve seen on Lost. With the way that show ended due to contract negotiations etc, we never got a satisfying ending. Hope that’s not one similiarly we don’t get here.
February 12th, 2010 at 7:11 am
On the sonogram, Gregg Nations dashes the hopes of many theorists:
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=120299
February 12th, 2010 at 7:13 am
@ Bonita in Atlanta- yeah, a little too complicated! I think the “game” theories would be the coolest outcome for this show.
I still think that the off island stories are meant to be surreal and non-realistic. All the off island stuff (to me) seems kind of dreamlike. Even though I also found Kate’s antics annoying, I’m hoping that this is a consistent plot device rather than lazy writing.
February 12th, 2010 at 7:30 am
@Rich: I was going to ask you if you were down the rabbit hole. :p
Maybe they can kill people from the other team. Daniel never was claimed I think (and the rules don’t apply to those not claimed… that’s why they keep killing them or get killed by them). And maybe the loophole was that Ben had been claimed by MIB (maybe through Richard who didn’t knew he was on the wrong side) and yet was the leader of the Others and had the right to go see Jacob and that was a loophole.
The only real problem I got with this theory comes from Juliet who killed one of her side, but if she had been claimed by Richard (like Ben) who had been claimed by MIB then that would still fit. And Ben took the baby instead of killing her and thus she could be killed by Widmore’s team because in fact they are not on the same side (but Ben thought they were).
Or maybe… I am over thinking all this! :p
One thing for sure, Ben has been manipulated as a leader since he thought Jacob was in Jacob’s cabin while it had been taken by MIB a long time ago.
And of course if Ben has not been claimed by Jacob that explains the “what about you”.
Christian not helping Locke must have something to do with the “claiming” and him being in the Cabin with a guy that scared Hugo (and Damon and Carlton saying that we never saw Jacob before) let me really think that Claire/Christian/MIB are now on the same side.
February 12th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Interesting to know that the date on the doppler photo was a continuity error
But it would be convenient if it was right, because it happens that the encounters between Claire and Ethan on and off Island would seem to occur at about the same time…
Could it be that Claire and Kate LA rampage was shot back at the time of season 1 ? Both look younger (at least Evangeline Lilly)… and Emily de Ravin seems definitely pregnant for real
Speaking of synchronicity
John moved the FDW bacvk on its axis only to move to 2007 Tunisia
and our 77 Losties blew the bomb in the EM swan dig only to find themselves in 2007
Cannot be just coincidental
By the way
Widmore tells Locke in the desert that there is a war coming
and Jacob says shorly after «They’re coming»
One last question
Has any of you thought that Sawyer might be headed down the Orchid? now that he finds no significant business to attend anymore on the Island
February 12th, 2010 at 9:41 am
IT”S ALL IN THE COLOR OF THEIR EYES!!!!!
For a while many of us have noticed that our character’s eyes change colors. So it must be that at different times they are being controlled or ‘claimed’ by the 2 players…Jacob & MIB.
Does anyone know if there is a place you can see all the opening shots of eyes to compare? I know in some scenes the eyes appear black or almost black.
Also -I’m with you guys that there is another Smokie running around…and it’s gonna be white / light colored.
February 12th, 2010 at 9:46 am
@mirepoix – did you see the preview for next week? It looks like something different will happen. I don’t know if it will be a spoiler if I say what the previews showed us. So I won’t say anything but you can go view the preview on abc.com. I am surprised at the director for making such a huge mistake with the sonogram date. They know how we take apart everything (which is half the fun of the show!)
@Team Jacob – I see your points but I won’t be convinced to join the team till I get more proof. Right now still Team Dark.
@Yann, Dharma was doing experiments, I wouldn’t call them evil, they were scientists, certainly a mass death was not called for, there were some bad Dharma people, but I can’t believe people that say “namaste” are out do do bad things.
I guess I am in the minority here, I don’t hate Kate. She is very self centered but I do like that in many ways she is as strong woman willing to stand up for herself. Plus I wouldn’t mind being her and being able to choose between Jack and Sawyer ( or her first husband played by Nathan Fillion)
February 12th, 2010 at 9:48 am
@nuckinfuts – ever notice the Oceanic Logo looks like an open eye? You could try Lostpedia for the eye shots. I have never noticed anything.
February 12th, 2010 at 10:22 am
@ Rich in Cleveland – A respectable and reasonable choice in sides, sir. We shall see… When I saw the previews before the season they did say that sides will be taken…I didn’t think it would boil down to us. But it should be fun as long as everyone respects the “Others” points of view…paraphrasing something Locke said once: “To you, I’m an Other.” Let the games begin!
Of course Sayid said, “A twelve-year-old Ben Linus brought me a chicken salad sandwich. How do you think I’m doing?”
@ Mirepoix in Mtl –
RE: ‘Rampage’ – I didn’t think Kate looked younger…I think it was shot now.
RE: synchronicity – I am wondering with the fact that time on the island seems to be different from time off the island as proven by Faraday and the doc’s dead body floating up on the beach if this means that the timelines can converge becuase time moves a lot slower on the island…unless you use a specific quardinant ( spelling )
RE: Sawyer – I think he said that he planned to go back to the Temple and told Kate she should get ready to go back too…I know he has no significant reason to participate any longer, but, I also think he has nothing to lose now. I figure that he is a man of action and will be un-afraid to start getting to the bottom of all this
February 12th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
I just had a thought, that really has nothing to do with What Kate Does, but with Hurley. What if Hurley doesn’t see Dead People, but is able to see people from the Tangent Universe/Alternate Reality? This is the same plot device as in Donnie Darko, when Donnie is able to see Frank the Rabbit, who isn’t dead in the real reality, but dead in the future of the Tangent Universe.
This could, of course, further differentiate his and Miles powers, since Miles doesn’t see dead people, but can speak to them, which, I would much rather not see an explanation for. But Hurley’s ability to tap into the alternate reality could really be the way that our universes merge. Just a thought I wanted to throw out there….
February 12th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Ok, the majority of my post has nothing to do with “What Kate Does,” but I will state that it was an okay episode.
It certainly held up Jen’s Sliding Doors comparison of the two realities. I recall one scene wear Kate was looking through her bag on the island and then it cut to her looking through Claire’s bag in LA. yada yada yada…
What I really wanted to write about though is a theory on Juliet. Is it possible that Juliet is from the future? If you recall her flashback in the “Incident” episode was very modern day, if this is the case wouldn’t she know if the bomb denotation was successful and everyone is ok.
Sorry to bring up old stuff.
February 12th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
@Tony from Cleveland – WOW, was I ever glad to see your post here regarding Juliet, and the fact that it was regarding an older episode and not “What Kate Does”. I’ve been wanting to post the following for a few days now but was hesitant for the “bringing up old stuff” reason.
@Everyone – Ok, here is a theory I’ve had for a while now about Juliet. Although I’ve read various posts suggesting that there are others who are thinking along the same lines, I have yet to see anything that says why. It seems to be just a “gut” feeling, no pun intended
I think Juliet was pregnant, and that was not only what she wanted to tell Sawyer just before she died, but what she did tell him through Miles by telling him “It Worked”. Now to try to explain………….
In the episode “Not In Portland”, everyone that Juliet told about her sister’s pregnancy, she started out by saying “It Worked”. She then waited for them to inquire as to “What worked”, and responded joyfully with the news that her sister was pregnant. What better way for team Darlton to confuse us all but to continue this continuity, and let Miles deliver the line no less. Most everyone thinks “It Worked” meant that the bomb did indeed reset everything (which it may very well have). But I also believe “It Worked”, also meant that she was PG.
Also, I believe Miles could sense there was something different with Juliet when he was helping Sawyer bury her, and that was the reason Sawyer had to force him into talking to her (or actually listening to her). Remember, he first said to Sawyer “it doesn’t matter”, when Sawyer finally pushed him on the issue, he responded with “It Worked”.
Now I think the interesting part will be, what transpired between the time Juliet banged on the Bomb in 1977, and when they found here at the bottom of the shaft in 2007? Maybe something “off island” in the sideways flashes?
I think we are in for one wild and interesting ride this season. Right up to the very end.
Sorry if I didn’t explain my thoughts very well here. Hopefully I got the highlights across.
February 12th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
@Yann From France lol…. today’s tweet
I will learn to hold my tongue. That being said, never put baby in a corner. And by “baby,” I mean LOST.
http://twitter.com/DamonLindelof
@NuckinFuts I have been saying that Locke’s eyes turn black from time to time al la Andre Linoge in Stephen King’s Storm of the Century.
February 12th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
Knives,
Thanks for being a calm voice. I figured my rant would elicit some kind of extreme reaction. If I really thought it was boring, I wouldn’t watch at all, but I am still captivated. I just have too much invested at this point.
But I want to highlight the brilliant analysis someone made above about the writing of this particular episode. I did think of the actual taxi business stuff was just silly. So I am not even complaining about the big notions like the potential of a fountain of youth. No, on the contrary, I am finding the more mundane stuff implausible.
Are we really supposed to mourn for Sawyer when his relationship to Juliet was mostly something that happened off-camera in the three years he spent in the Dharma camp? I still thought we had a decent love triangle with Jack and Kate. I just don’t think the writer’s have earned that Juliet relationship, let alone play it to the heights of melodrama. I also felt that the choice to show a future flash with Kate and Jack in a relationship was a total mistake. It would be the equivalent of showing the two leads in Moonlighting get together. So much for all that dramatic tension.
Now Kate just seems like vain woman who hasn’t figured herself out, not in a profound way, but in an annoying way.
And regarding these New Others… can’t we just have a little CONTEXT. I know the characters can’t communicate the questions we all have or the show will end, but can’t they at least behave with some rationality?
I like the free will versus determinism stuff, but why would our heros just go along with these strangers without concrete reasons why. And it doesn’t help to give our characters the silly questions to cover it up? There should be a more elegant way to exposit that information.
Okay, so you take the guy and put him in the water. Can you explain that for me? Oh, you just killed him? Okay, that sucks. Wait, now he’s alive and you want to kill him again. I think by that point they are not going to be so obedient to these people, but there they are, acting like they are all buddies.
Going to 77 (the year I was born) was a cool idea in the abstract, but then why not explore Dharma in a very cool way? Instead, it was just more of the same mundane stuff. The show needs to be more mysterious, like it used to be. That doesn’t mean not answering questions, it means that they need to be consistent in characterization. Or if you pull a flip on a character, like Ben or Locke, only do it once. Don’t have them flip from good to evil many times or we get confused and irritated.
I still don’t know what Ben’s deal is. Do you? Why have they not really gone into the Native storylines by now — the eyeliner dudes?
No worries, Knives. I am still among you. I just need a good vent because I read here so many posts where people are trying to read the riddles and the answers they are coming up with are sooo, sooo, sooo complicated.
PS: I think Jack is a robot. Just kidding, or am I?
February 12th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
“@Knvies I am on Team Dark too, I have been since last week when I rewatched the finale. MIB just wants to move on and be home while Jacob is getting a kick out of his little experiments.”
I’m leaning in that direction. Given what we’ve seen from the Others through the seasons, how can MIB/Smokeys actions be so villainous? Jacob is the one who appears to keep manipulating people onto the Island for his ongoing experiment in “progress”. From that perspective, I can understand MIB/Smokey wanting to finally stop the cycle. If we carry the Esau/Jacob analogy, maybe MIB is trying to reclaim the inheritance that was stolen by his younger twin Jacob. That inheritance (or his “home”) being the island itself.
February 12th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
@ Harold CBD : Haha, great minds
February 12th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
@ James
OMG ULTIMATE SPOILER!
Jack is a robot!
Gee thanks
No but thanks for your response. You make valid arguments.
I agree for the most part.
However I sincerely believe that the show will conclude in a away that will leave us satisfied and leave us with the taste in our mouths that got us hooked in the first place.
In the end isnt that all that really matters?
-Team Dark.
February 12th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
I am with James. I am a reasonable man and bringing new Others+ bringing back the sickness (and I wonder if they mean the quarantine Dharma stuff to). And since non of them act friendly and no reponse is given yet. And when I see on this blog how far people goes with their theories and that there is 15episodes left… I said it in my first post (which was supposed to be the only one): I am afraid there will be plot holes. Look at the theories we are writing right now and does it make any sort of sense and can you fit any in 15episodes and do you feel “satisfied” by that?
I am on neither side, their are all gamers and whatever their reasons are you don’t kill people and act like you stumped on a bee. I think as I mentioned earlier that they live in The Numbers/doom world and that they will all die and at the end the side-world where their destiny has been found will be the only one remaining.
February 13th, 2010 at 12:19 am
Since it is a game and they are size on my theory lets dwelve a bit more:
the Island is moved by ben Ben and the Others and Claire are left in the “present” while the remaining losties and Juliet (who had been marked or wasn’t a true Others as in not claimed by MIB or Jacob) skip through time.
We now know Claire had been claimed, I guess the Others had been claimed also (but not for the same team).
Ajira flight comes back with oceanic6, Ilana, Brahm, Frank and Ben:
Sun, Ilana, Brahm, John, Frank and Ben stay in 2007, the others skip through time… It means that those who stayed had been claimed? Ok about Ben, Ilana and Brahm. But Frank and Sun? Sun is Paik and they work for Widmore so maybe there is something there but why Frank? A candidate?And didn’t we saw Jacob touch all those that went back in time?
February 13th, 2010 at 1:28 am
Ok one thing that I did not notice and I have to share with you. Jacob wore gloves when he went to see Ilana! And he never saw Ben before. Maybe he has to speak through Richard because he CAN’T come in contact. That change the Ajira list: he came in contact with all those that went back in time and I have to check if he touched Sun (or maybe Widmore did something to her before, we will have to see).
February 13th, 2010 at 6:26 am
@ Yann – I am pretty sure Jacob touched both Sun & Jin at their wedding.
- Team Dark
February 13th, 2010 at 6:29 am
Have you noticed that Dharmaville seems abandoned for much more than 3 years
It seems as obvious by daylight than it was at night when Lapidus and Jin met Christian
But why hasnt the jungle grown back more into it ?
Remember that O815 never chrashed in 2004
But wait!! The Swan has imploded anyway… without Desmonds and Locke involvement?
I know its not in the cards for next week
but I still feel we are not finished with the FDW
and Sawyer may just be the one to go work things out with Widmore
Remember what Locke told him next to JugHead…
Could it be that Sawyer will figure out a way to bring Juliet back?
February 13th, 2010 at 8:01 am
What if…
We know that Jacob claims players for this game. What if, if those players happen to die while in play, MIB can claim them for himself. (although if they are buried, he can not)
Hmmmmm…
February 13th, 2010 at 10:55 am
Whether Claire is claimed or not, I wonder if she has gone partly insane due to the flashes. She never had Faraday to explain them to her. So it must have driven her crazy to find the camp gone, her baby, etc. Unless her “claim buddy” Christian explained it all to her.
It’ll be interesting to see her talk and interact, see if there is any Claire left.
How bad can she be if she saved Jin, unless she intended to shoot him as well until she saw him. She looked like she was saving an innocent to me.
February 13th, 2010 at 11:01 am
Claire’s from the prison planet of Australia, what does she care about hanging with a woman on the run?
Mirepoix in Mtl needs a re-watch
I don’t get the Kate Haters. She’s one of the better characters. I thought it had to do with jealous women or something, but now her character is going over a few guys heads as well. Can’t figure it out. Her character is so powerful and integral to all that is going on. Remember she was the lead before they decided to keep Jack alive in the pilot. Maybe because she’s the hardest to pin down that confuses everyone. The story that gets her to the island is such an interesting one. The way she hides her character while it creeps out little by little as the story unfolds is amazing. It’s okay if I get the show by myself and you all miss out. I’ll be okay with that. Keep thinking that this is filler.
February 13th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
@James – I see your point re: complicated theories, I don’t think the writers expect the audience to work that hard. They have to appeal to a mass audience. For example I usually read Doc Jensen on EW but his theories are way too intricate for them to all be right. I am not even sure if the Jacob and Esau theory is actually correct.
All along Damon and Carlton have been orginial in their ideas so why steal from mythology?
Of course I haven’t watched the Lost University stuff so I may be all wrong.
February 13th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Coolpeace – Yes, Newton and Leibnitz, too.
Apart from the interesting and important argument over the significance of Kate in this narrative, one thing I have for a long time noticed about Kate is…
The Award For Most Outstanding Nostril goes to…
Kate Austen
Cue scene: “What Kate Does”, about 14:35 into the episode (not counting commercials). Kate has returned to return Claire’s bags. She offers Claire a ride, which Claire initially refuses with incredulity and a bit of contempt, “Seriously?” Kate reiterates, “Do you want a ride or not?” Stop it right there, when Kate vocalizes the “ri” of ride. Her head goes back, her chin goes up, her lower teeth disappear behind her lower lip and her upper teeth show fully, and that’s where she wins the award.
Harold CBD (Claimed By Darkness)
February 13th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
@Harold – ha! Plus love the CBD, it can be our official name.
February 13th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
A couple of great observations there.
@L Reene
I don’t know exactly what it means, but the repetition of a phrase like that is never coincidence on Lost. (“It worked.”)
@Yann
There’s something off about Jacob when he approaches Ilana and the detail of the gloves seems to capture it perfectly in retrospect.
How am I alone in my view on Esau? I feel like Kareem Abdul Jabaar in The Stand. “He’s coming! The dark man is coming!” Help me out here.
February 14th, 2010 at 1:52 am
Geez, by the time I’ve watched the episode and read all these comments, it’s Sunday and the podcast is already on its way (I’m guessing). So I suppose I’d better make this quick.
I’m not really in the Kate-loving or Kate-hating camp, nor have I chosen a team to go for (this isn’t football). To me Lost have never been about the characters, it’s been the story and the events that surround them, and the greater questions of the nature of the island, space and time. So the ludicrousness of the Kate off-island story never bothered me. I can see how stupid it is but I don’t think it matters. Lost has always reverted to fairly clunky plot devices, broad characterisations and the odd cliche (the worst I think was a Jack flashback doing the whole ‘trying to resuscitate a dead patient on the operating table because he’s the sort of doctor who doesn’t give up’ thing. No doubt someone with better recall can remember the episode). Some people rave about the characters too but I’ve always felt that they are secondary to what it all means. This isn’t The Wire (or The Shield for that matter).
So in a whole ‘what does it all mean’ vogue, let me suggest something that popped into my head when I rewatched eps 1 and 2. I think the off-island stuff will happen after the on-island stuff. My main evidence, and I suppose it is a bit flimsy, is the cut on Jack’s neck. At this stage it doesn’t make sense as to why Jack had a cut there. The only way to explain it to the audience is to show us how he got it, and the only way I can see them doing that is by having it happen at the conclusion of the on-island story. So my prediction is that on-island events will result in Jack getting a cut shortly before something happening to create a new reality on Flight 815. The new reality begins at the point of turbulence that the off island characters experience on the plane and it is at that moment that Desmond, he of the special powers, appears on the flight. Before the turbulence, my guess is nothing had changed, which is why Desmond wasn’t on the plane at that moment.
The reason I’m mentioning it now is because people seem to think that the timelines will converge, like they are happening at the same time and somehow they will spill into one another. I think it’s a little cleverer than that. My sense is that the off-island stuff has a purpose that will relate to (and directly follow) events as they play out on the island. Part of what makes our Losties special, possibly, is their ability to see through realities, to retain information from one reality for application in the next. Perhaps this is part of Jacob’s or MiB’s plan to eliminate their nemesis: destroy the other by creating a new reality without the other, using the Losties to … who knows. But I think that there will be information from on-island that will be key to off-island because the former precedes the former. And what is happening off-island may be ultimately more important than what we are seeing on-island. Perhaps this device also allows the creators to answer our questions through the on-island story and show why it all matters in the off-island story.
February 14th, 2010 at 1:58 am
Sorry, meant to write that “the former precedes the latter” in the last paragraph.
February 14th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
@ Pete from Rockford. I can’t count the number of people who, over the years, have told me, “I used to watch LOST, but the behavior of the characters became so unrealistic and it became impossible to stay up with what was going on.” Realistically that number adds up to millions and millions of viewers the program “lost” along the way.
I screamed at the TV the other night when Kate was just driving around LA in a Big Yellow Taxi — when every cop and federal agent in town would be looking for her. I know, the writers need to get characters from A to B, but can’t they do it in a believable method?
I don’t want everything explained and bundled-up in 1-hour segments, but I do expect progression and logic. Often times LOST is void of both. I have watched the show for 5 seasons, made a trip to Hawaii, bought the DVDs, and enjoyed the season opener, BUT after watching “What Kate Does” I got really annoyed.
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:55 am
Does anyone recall that in season 1 – Sayid is burned by a hot poker and otherwise tortured by Rousseau?
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:56 am
err not a hot poker, shocked with electricity.