Next: “LA X” (Episode 6-01/02)
“LA X” was a fitting opener to the final season of “LOST.” It had a reassuring focus on character with a generous topping of mythology. It had moments of strong emotional resonance, and a few gasp-worthy reveals. And it sets the stage for the epic battle between Jacob and the Man In Black that has apparently simmered beneath much of what we’ve been studying for the past several years. Sure, with yet another storytelling “twist,” we have no idea what’s going on… but since when has that been a problem?
Okay. So Jen’s a little nonplussed with the “parallel storyline” structure, and I can see why. On one hand, it’s clever. We get to see both outcomes of the Jughead argument. And the little differences we spot range from amusing hat-tips to a deeper exploration of a person’s fate. On the other, it seems just a little cheap to not commit to one answer… at least this late in the game. It also raises the troubling specter of having to switch between two worlds for several more episodes, when we really want the writers to just pick a path and let the rubber finally, finally hit the road.
And intellectually, I can see many reasons to dismiss or even dislike the universe where Oceanic Flight 815 lands safely in Los Angeles. Through that lens, they’ve thrown out five years of character development and regression. So I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. Sure, some of the touches were more fan bait than plot (Frogurt at the taxi stand, Doctor Arzt being annoying), but other moments felt right: Jack and Locke talking at the airport lost and found, with Jack taking interest in Locke’s condition. Jin returning to his darker, meaner self, and Sun already rebelling. Sawyer flirting with Kate, but more tellingly, not interfering with her escape from the airport. Hurley being confident and lucky. And Charlie, once running from death, now almost exhaustedly chasing it. I guess I’m more curious about the “what if” scenario than I thought I was.
Besides. The island is underwater? A development that comes about sometime after New Otherton is built? (A development that, sadly, could’ve used a few more days in the CGI rendering farm?) Just like watching a magic show, independent of everything else, I now simply have to see how they explain that. My guess is that it sank when Ben moved the island, a moment that is at the other end of whatever branching we’re now seeing. But I can’t even begin to explain what I actually mean.
Meanwhile, the new on-island world (universe, storyline, timeline, what have you) so far certainly seems to be custom-built to feed the fans obsessed with the mythology of the show. “I’m sorry you had to see me like that,” says Unlocke, while Richard says, incredulously, “You!” If the Man in Black and the smoke monster are one and the same, we now have a whole new prism through which to reexamine the last five seasons. I only hope things hold up under such scrutiny.
Learning what was in the guitar case so early in the season was a pleasant surprise, and the giant Ankh was certainly an impressive prop, regardless of the fact that a sealed envelope would’ve probably worked just as well.
Finally, we see the temple, and meet a whole new group of characters. It’s a good thing Hiroyuki Sanada is so good at being mysterious, because these original recipe Others (shunning technology and performing rituals) could very well have been too much, too late. Instead, Sanada seemed a perfect disciple and ally of Jacob, and through him, the Others again seemed to be a tribe to be reckoned with. An intimidating air that was reminiscent of the first two seasons, before Kate found the costumes.
What of the temple spring? Apparently it’s supposed to heal, as the Island itself does, though that power went missing as the water turned cloudy. Sayid, instead of being revived, apparently died. But that was likely always Jacob’s plan. I bet that Jacob now has a new agent or vessel in Sayid, given the unfamiliar voice with which Sayid asked, “What happened?”
But with word that Jacob is dead, the Others at the Temple prepare for battle with “him.” Their flare alerts Alpert, who’s sadly pummeled by Unlocke/Man In Black, and I guess the battle is on.
Notes and Notions:
- I guess we had to get “closure” with Juliet, but having to basically see her die twice was wrenching. Josh Holloway, hands down, gave the performance of the evening.
- From beyond the grave, Juliet says, “It worked.” So can she see the other timeline? Is it even, really, another timeline? After all, in Los Angeles, it’s 2004. On the island, it’s 2007 or so. Maybe the writers can somehow connect the two into one single timeline? Does that even make sense?
- The Man in Black’s tribute to the late John Locke was a bittersweet one. He spoke the truth about our sad, defeated friend, and our would-be hero. But perhaps not surprisingly, Terry O’Quinn’s “menacing” look is incredibly effective, and I’ll gladly let John Locke go in favor of seeing what the actor does with a whole new soul.
- The Man in Black wants to get off the island, and go “home.” I guess it’s fair to ask where or what “home” is, but I think the real story is why he (and likely Jacob) are trapped on the island. His reference to Alpert’s chains, meanwhile, hint strongly at the suspected link between Alpert and the Black Rock.
- Hurley can see Jacob, but Jin can’t, though Jacob touched them both. Therefore, Hurley is special, and seeing the dead is simply his thing. Indeed, he seems almost too suddenly fine with it, barely reacting when Jacob tells him he died three hours prior, and talking warmly to the recently deceased Sayid. Miles, too, got to let his freak flag fly, and this time his communion with the dead came with a great deal of dramatic flourish. Sometimes, I can’t believe this is the same show we were watching in Season 1.
- Great lighter moments. Hurley saying he knows how to use a gun, or arguing about trademarking the word “Outback.” Locke telling Boone he’s not pulling his leg, and Boone telling Locke he’d follow him to stay safe on a plane. And, of course, a Sawyer nickname: Earhart.
- Richard said, “Asking me what’s in the shadow of the damn statue doesn’t mean you’re in charge.” He flippantly referred to a line that, up until now, was infused with significance and weight. Kind of like, “Live together, die alone.”
- Fun with pointy things! Jack was again looking for a pen to save someone’s life. And how great is it that a character named Bram dies via a stake through his heart?
- Book: “Fear and Trembling” by Soren Kierkegaard, a retelling of the biblical story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac.
- Locations: The Temple interior is on the Hawaii Film Studio sound stage, but the impressive exterior is in Manoa Valley. The plane interior, and the collapsed hatch tunnel, was also on the studio lot. The Swan site is in the jungles of Heeia Kea in Kaneohe, and the foot of the four toed statue was Makua Beach. LAX is, of course, Honolulu International Airport.
We’d love your feedback for our podcast this weekend! Comment below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LOSTLine at 815-310-0808.
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:00 am
I would like to go on record before the season starts with my CRACKPOT THEORY. Here goes:
At the end of the season there will be cliffhanger and it will say “To Be Continued……” And then there will be a season 7.
That’s the biggest surprise yet!! (I told you it was a crackpot theory! )
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:20 am
I just hope they leave us with a “reasonable ending” rather than leaving it to everyone’s imagination.
I would hate to be left with a “That’s it?!?” feeling.
February 2nd, 2010 at 10:53 am
Ryan, I heard you on NPR this morning – when they started the story, I thought, they should really talk to Ryan and Jen. And then there you were. Excellent!
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:09 am
Just to make sure everyone sees it, here’s the link to the NPR segment where Ryan is interviewed:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123214955
February 2nd, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Ryan & Jen, I’m so bummed I couldn’t fly out for all the festivities last weekend, but I’ve enjoyed pouring over all the blogs, posts and photos. Thanks for keeping us informed! I’m busting with excitement for the premier. Only 2.5 hours to go here!
February 2nd, 2010 at 12:53 pm
@mike.in.va: Best theory ever! I don’t want the show to end this year! Come on! It would the best surprise ever and totally unexpected!
@joe: I hope they leave plenty to speculate about for years and years… Otherwise it would not be fun anymore.
See you tomorrow in an other life, brothers.
February 2nd, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Guys. This is it.
We are about to watch the final and maybe even greatest premiere of LOST EVER.
Enjoy it. Savor it.
I’ll see you guys when its over.
subscribe to http://www.youtube.com/user/knivesmonroe
to get my reviews and recaps =)
I love you guys.
“They’re Coming”
February 2nd, 2010 at 2:18 pm
http://www.youtube.com/user/knivesmonroeislost
^^ My LOST Recap and Review channel!
sorry about that. That other channel is for other things!
Thanks for the subscription Ryan!
Get ready, because this premiere is going to be incredible =)
-Knives
February 2nd, 2010 at 2:23 pm
mike.in.va
I thought the same thing !
but they would come back with a different title
just to make sure that it is the last season of LOST
February 2nd, 2010 at 2:44 pm
I always thought to myself The Transmission is the NPR of Lost Podcasting. There I was looking at the NPR website and who is on the webpage!! Ryan. Really enjoy your analysis of a great show. Looking forward to a great season!! Thanks for your hard work guys.
Eric
February 2nd, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Ok, the recap just started and I’m even excited about that.
February 2nd, 2010 at 3:51 pm
*sigh*
Here we go!!!! Can’t believe this is premiere night! I have to take my daughter to acting class and work late tonight, but I will be watching the dvr after the kids are in bed and can’t wait to share my thoughts. I’ll be up late tonight! Kudos Ryan and Jen, looooved starting out my morning commute and hearing about Lost and my favorite Lost podcasters on the way! OMG, what a treat
See you all on the other side of the premiere.
February 2nd, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Not only is this going to turn out to be the best season for the show, but The Transmission is going to be the best it’s ever been too. Thanks for all your hard work Ryan and Jen! At least you don’t have as many commercial breaks as the show does.
February 2nd, 2010 at 4:51 pm
Holy Freakin Crap!
That’s all I can say. 1st HFC moment of the season is the first 4 minutes, and now I am to the 2nd HFC moment… This is the best season premiere ever!!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 5:15 pm
son of a ….
February 2nd, 2010 at 5:16 pm
I am gobsmacked – - best ep ever…
February 2nd, 2010 at 5:45 pm
So in season one they had said they were going to kill Jack off in the first episode. My question to Damon n Carlton is how did this change how the story wad told?? What about the direction of the plot story??
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:01 pm
“I want to go home” – can anyone explain that?
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:02 pm
who? what? why? when?
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Better than the pilot. Need I say more?
Epic
Enthralling
Touching
Confusing
Scary
Exciting
Just FREAKIN AMAZING!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:09 pm
Whaa just happened? I knew Richard was going to get his ass kicked by Man in Black, but Richard KNOWS who Man in Black is? And Man in Black had Richard in chains?
Maybe it was just me, but when Sayid woke up, it didn’t sound like his voice. Will have to watch it again.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:09 pm
Questions are answered. Questions are raised. Lost is fabulous. BUckle up and enjoy the ride! (How many threads can you follow?)
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:10 pm
I was prepared to be extremely disappointed by this episode, it just seemed like it was going to be kind of predictable. In the words of Mr. Locke “I was wrong.”
Just unbelievable…I am still shaking my head in disbelief, I have a headache from crying about 30 times, still have goosebumps and firmly believe that Terry O’Quinn will win every single award this year.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Pass the duct tape, my head is about to explode! W O W what an episode, I have to watch it again. What was up with the island underwater? If this episode is a microcosm (sp?) of this season then it is going to be awesome! Holy Frickin Crap!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:11 pm
@Matt — I think the “Richard in Chains” comment means that Richard wasn’t the captain of the Black Rock, he was a slave being transported.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Whoa, where did the temple people come from? It seemed that Richard recognized the firework signal and was startled to see it (What is his connection?) The Locke Monster wants to go home, my theory is that it is an alien stranded on Earth and not some sort of demon. Too many questions!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:13 pm
@Pete yeah could be that. Somebody on YuBlog also surmised that he could have been a prisoner since Australia was at one point a penal colony. And Australia has to play a part in the resolution of the story.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:14 pm
To say that this amazing 2hr premiere blew my mind is quite an understatement. I mean, Flashsideways?! Cmon thats genius. Finally discovered whats in the guitar case. Finally saw the temple. Finally found out that fakelocke is the smoke monster. Still wondering what happened to Desmond on the plane that was a bit odd. Man so many reveals yet so many more questions.. Till next week….
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:14 pm
WOW! So I just left a voicemail as well, but let me lay it out here (where I can be more coherent).
First of all, BEST SEASON PREMIERE EVER!!! This has got to be my absolute favorite season premiere, answered so many questions and raised so many more.
Several Holy Freakin Crap moments. The first was the opening scene, and the establishment of two timelines. I loved watching the LAX scenes, and wonder if the fact that the coffin wasn’t on the plane will prove to be critical as to why the plane didn’t crash. Why was Desmond on the plane and not in the hatch? Why was the statue underwater? Is this just in the group’s imagination, or is this really an alternate timeline?
Second HFC moment – Smokey reveals himself as Locke (and the other way round). So now we now. New Lock = Man in Black = Smoke Monster and he is an evil bastard. I look forward to watching him move through the season. With the ash perimeter (see below) I think we also have established that it was the Man in Black in the cabin and somehow (Hurley?) the ash line was broken which freed him. Watching Ben’s reaction to learning he had been used was freakin awesome!
HFC moment #3. The reveal of the Temple behind the temple. So the “Black Rock-ers” were the people at the Temple (that’s who they are right)? Is the well / fountain what’s keeping them immortal (Alpert as well)? Maybe with Jacob dead now the fountain won’t work for them. I thought the group seemed to be “piratical” so I have to imagine they are the pirate crew from the ship. Of course, Zack and Emma are revealed as being the kids there (predictable), but who is the Japanese man (and his translator)? And why did Sayid awake if the fountain didn’t work? By the way, the fountain looked very much like a Mikveh (Jewish ritual bath for cleansing).
Can’t wait for next week. I am sure I missed a ton, but this episode wins the top HFC award from me….
Happy return of Lost, all, and Ryan and Jen, it’s nice to be back with you!!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:15 pm
@Nana I watched the Pilot today, and these two episodes definitely had more “WTF” moments. Gonna give it some time to sink in before I could agree that these two are better than the pilot though.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:15 pm
Are we spoiler free in here? What are the rules?
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:16 pm
A HOLY FREAKIN CRAP THAT BLOWS AWAY ALL OTHER HOLY FREAKING CRAPS!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:17 pm
OMG! Just let Sayid be alive!!!
Is he okay!?
Whats going on!!
Im too shocked to have a theory! I’d never thought I’d say that.
What did Juliet mean by ‘it worked’!!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:18 pm
If Man in Black was in the Cabin, and Man in Black = Smoky, then the ash line had to be broken before the Losties got there since Smoky attacked them in the cockpit of the plane.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Nothing is irreversible.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:20 pm
I think Sayid = Jacob.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:22 pm
People all over the Internet are saying that when Sayid came alive, his voice was not Sayid’s voice. Anyone notice that?
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Strong opener. Absolutely love what they did with Locke. He remains my favorite character even still, since Smokester ranks among my favorite things to see on screen. I am so pleased, I am even able to forgive them for killing him off.
Really would prefer to see Kate go to jail and never be seen again. That marshal is a perpetual idiot.
They’re going to have to explain how Hurley won the lottery without the use of the numbers, and why he was in Australia…
Really, really like the alternate reality concept, and the fact that Juliet seemed to have been able to perceive the alternate reality as she died in one of them. May give a new understanding of the unstuck phenomenon.
Is Sayid still Sayid, or is he changed like Ben was changed? Is he going to be loyal to the turban-sporting hippies or to Locke-Monster (since the water was, after all, dark). Note: Miles knew he wasn’t dead, but whaaaaat else did he know? Looked a little distressed there next to Sayid.
Seems like the Other Others are trying to keep the Dark One out of his “home” (the temple) with their hilarious magical borders. Note that: If there had been a ring of ash around that cabin, was it keeping Smokey away from Jacob? Guess so.
What did that note really say?
Why didn’t Shannon get on the plane? Needs moar hawt chix.
Where was WAAALLLLT?
Frogurt sleeps with girly-patterned eye masks.
DVRed it, got it on iTunes (in the AM) so will have seen it a few more times by next week. Looking forward to the Xmission’s take. (Pro tip: LOST on iPod/Phone + Treadmill = 45 minutes of exercise you won’t even notice.)
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:23 pm
@ SM I agree 100%
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:24 pm
@John F. — Didn’t notice. I’ll have to re-watch. (Of course, I don’t really need a reason to re-watch
)
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Theory!!!!!!!!!!!!! Locke came back to life in Sayid’s body, which is why his accent is different.
When Man in Black was carrying Richard away from the Statue, the camera took an obvious pause on Locke’s body. Cut to the Temple and Sayid wakes up w/ an accent that isn’t Sayid. He was drowned in that water, which is apparently how they heal people. Based on this, I agree w/ what Colleen said abt Young Ben not being the same person as Current Ben. The Others drowned him in the water and he came back as a deceased other, hence Richard saying “he’ll never be the same again” or something like that before he took YB from Kate.
My head hurts.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Holy Cow! So many questions and yet some answers. Granted none of them were big answers but I guess it’s better than nothing. We now know the ash keeps Smokie out.
So where and when is MIB/Fake Locke from? How does he know Richard and just how long has Richard been on the Island?
So do we now have to keep track of 2 timelines? Will these timelines merge at some time?
My head hurts.
Good night can’t wait to hear the next cast.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:24 pm
I just finished watching the Season 6 Premier, and all I can think is “Holy mother of crap!!!”
My mind is all twisted up in knots now, with even more questions, and my jaw is sore from dropping open so many times, but I’m loving it!!
Favorite moments?
A brief flash of what I’m certain was Ezra James Sharkington.
“I’m sorry you had to seem me like that.” (jaw dropped)
“What’s a 314?” “I’m sorry, sir, but that’s confidential.” “Well then how am I suppose to know if I see one?”I’m happy to talk to John. But before I do, I think you should talk to him first” (OMG!!)
“It’s good to see you out of those chains.” (jaw really, really dropped!)
I think I have about a dozen more faves, but just in case people read the comments before they see the episode, I don’t want to spoil anyone!
I’m so excited Lost is back! I think this season is going to be amazing!!!
Can’t wait to hear the podcast!!!
Melissa
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:25 pm
It appears that there are now two parallel universes, one in which Oceanic flight 815 doesn’t break apart in mid-air, and one where the survivors are still on the island. In the first case, the flight does experience turbulence over the (sunken) island. But, the only reason that the flight was over the island in season one was because it had experienced radio problems and had changed course towards Fiji and was a thousand miles off course. So, if in season six, why was the flight over the island at all? To be over the island implies that it still was headed towards Fiji. Yet it lands at LAX. Maybe it did land in Fiji, had the radio problems fixed, and then completed the flight to LAX. That presents the possibility that Christian Shephard’s coffin was lost there and that Christian is walking around Fiji.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:25 pm
And now somebody just mentioned Jacob, I guess Sayid could be Jacob now too. Now my head really hurts.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Saw exactly what Ryan was talking about with the SFX scene. Kinda wrenched me out of the moment.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:25 pm
John – I noticed that, too! I thought at first that I was imagining it, but I went back and rewatched that part, and his voice sounds totally different!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:27 pm
And Frogurt is still whiney.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:28 pm
I think the bomb caused all the electromagnetism to leave the island and created an alternate universe in which the plane actually lands. It sure is good to see Terry O’Quinn to play Locke instead of this evil guy.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Too bad there was no music like the older episodes, since “Parallel Universe” would have been the perfect song!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:31 pm
I’ve just re-watched the “Sayid wakes” scene about 6 times. I think it is Sayid’s voice, but it just seems different because he’s slurring his words a bit. (Hey, I’d be slurring too if I had just come back from the dead.)
BTW — when Miles said “nothing”, I think he was realizing that he couldn’t hear “dead Sayid”.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:31 pm
LOVED IT! ‘Nuff said! Hehe
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:32 pm
Too many commercials.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:33 pm
@Brendon — definitely an alternate timeline, IMO. As to why, I don’t know, but your theory is as good as any at this point!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Matt, great point about the ash! You’re right of course, so the line in ash must have been broken long before…
I don’t have TiVo in NY so I can’t go back and listen to Sayid’s voice, but how cool if he is now another character…
And is Richard dead now? Maybe Sayid is Richard…
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:36 pm
@ Pete from Rockford.
I do believe it was Sayid’s voice too.
but we sadly can’t rule out that he can either Locke or Jacob.
Maybe Miles didn’t hear Sayid’s voice, maybe he heard Jacob’s or Locke’s.
But in all reality, I do hope its my Sayid. I really do =)
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:37 pm
@Yann – Good point!
Awesome Season Premeire! I can hardly wait till next week!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:38 pm
@Knives –
Agree 100%. He definitely may not be “our Sayid”, but I don’t think the voice was altered.
The bit about Miles hearing someone else’s voice hadn’t occurred to me — I just figured he wasn’t hearing anything. Good point.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:39 pm
If John Locke + Man in Black = Flock, then now John Locke + Smokey = Smock.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Jacob = God
Evil John Locke = Devil
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:45 pm
And Grunny makes a VO appearance as “the pilot”!!! LOVES!!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Any Japanese speakers here? Wondering if the translations were accurate…..
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:48 pm
This confusing Sayid accent debauchery is going to destroy me for 7 days.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:49 pm
@Daniel — One of my friends does a bit, but not enough to determine the accuracy. I was wondering the same.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:52 pm
**SORRY, I’m JUST THE LARGEST SAYID FAN, SO I MUST SAY THIS**
Okay, before I say this, I must admit that anything goes in the final season, and with LOST in general, anything can happen.
I have always stood by the WHATEVER HAPPENED, HAPPENED philosophy, as well as the DEAD IS DEAD philosophy.
With that in mind, I don’t think Sayid was ever really ‘dead’ judging from Mile’s reaction.
Because I believe DEAD IS DEAD, there’s no way Sayid could have been dead.
This is the ABC’s UNTANGLED for these 2 episodes.
Hopefully it puts to rest Sayid’s “resurrection”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68oWevQ6gyI&feature=sub
if anyone has any counter arguments, please send them my way.
-Knives
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:58 pm
So they bring Juliette back just so we can have another goodbye death scene with here and Sawyer? That’s just wrong. It was hard enough watching it the first time.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:58 pm
I think the “chains” comment was referring to the fact that Richard had been a servant to Jacob, and is now no longer that.
February 2nd, 2010 at 6:59 pm
OMG… Ryan and Jen are now on Nightline as well… and Darlton is commenting on the fans…
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:00 pm
The Transmission just got a shoutout on Nightline!!!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:00 pm
You guys and the website were just on Nightline!!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:00 pm
I just heard and saw y’all on Nightline! Yay!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:02 pm
You were on Nightline. That’s pretty cool
I loved, loved, loved the premiere. But I’m so confused!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:03 pm
Jacob said “They’re coming” as his last words, I think he meant Jack, Sawyer etc.
Cannot even begin to process that episode. I didn’t think of the possibility of two timelines taking place in the new plot device that Darlton now callls “Flash sideways”.
Loved it but I am totally confused. I have to watch it again. So many shocking moments, smokey Locke, Claire in the Cab, Sayid “dying”, the island underwater.
Great article on ew.com with Carlton and Damon talking about the new direction of the series.
In the last poster they released they said there were several clues to the new season. It appeared to have someone tied up on the black Rock, Richard?
Also wondering if the cloth cut by Locke at the beginning is the same cloth that was found in the cabin by Alana. Which brings up other possiblities.
@Knives, couldn’t help but think of you when Sayid died. Jack and everyone doesn’t know about the “two lockes” so they don’t realize there could be two Sayids.
Jen and Ryan – can’t wait to hear your thoughts!!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:03 pm
Not to mention Ryan’s voice: “What do the numbers mean?”
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Loved seeing Charlie again and Boone, etc. It really is a whole new show now. Locke and Jack got along, no smog at LAX – it really is an alternate reality!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Words can’t explain what i’m thinking about this final season.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:06 pm
My head hurts trying to figure out the storytelling device being used in this one. But while thinking about the mythology makes my head hurt, seeing all of the characters again put a lump in my throat and, occasionally, a tear in my eye. I have to admit, they got me with nostalgia, both at taking us back to the beginning, and in bringing us back our characters after an very long 8 months.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:06 pm
@Carol do you have a link for the poster you mentioned? Don’t think I’ve seen that one
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:07 pm
You guys got a mention on “Nightline”! Awesome!
My brain is still exploding. Where’s my Tylonol????
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:07 pm
@Knives – I agree, judging by Mile’s reaction, Sayid wasn’t dead.
Yes, saw Nightline and the shoutout to The Transmission!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:08 pm
One more thing. I’m guessing Jacob’s ‘resurrection’ is tied to making sure all of the people he touched are back on the island at the same place. If Sayid died, that would have mucked up that plan, hence the others comments about making sure he doesn’t die.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow!
What a great couple of episodes to kick the season off!
The biggest thing that hit me was about Hurley. When they go to take Sayid to the temple, Hurley changed into a red shirt. At first, I got worried, after all we all know about what happens to “Red Shirts” But once we got to temple, I noticed that most everyone else there was wearing at least a little red, but the more important people (guards, etc) had a fair amount of red on (The guy in the red turban for example) That’s when I noticed that none of the other Losties changed, they all still had the clothes that they wore when the bomb went off.
What could it mean? Does Hurley have a place among the Others? It seems so. He is the one that is singled out by Jacob and the Leaders at the Temple. I see a bigger role for Hurley than I ever thought!
Can’t wait for The Transmission and next week’s episode of LOST!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:11 pm
Get some perspective. Better than the pilot? No way. A new and obscured variation of our favorite myth that could lead to the heart of a deeper mystery? OK.
Is there any remaining doubt that what Ben said was true, that the Others are in fact the “good guys?” I especially loved the Zen master in the temple. He was teaching, guiding, healing. But if our survivors had remained an unknown, potential threat, he would have eliminated them on the spot. And now we can start to see why. They protect the wellspring of life from the fog of final judgement.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:14 pm
@Matt – just Google “lost supper picture”
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:15 pm
A few reactions to the episodes and the posts here:
Jacob as Sayid would suck. I like Sayid and all, but is he as integral to the mythology, black vs. white as Locke has been? I trust Team Darlton to do the right thing, but if Jacob is now Sayid then I’ll withhold judgment for a bit, even though my gut says it’s a bad idea.
Best scene had to be Juliet and Sawyer’s final goodbye – it was so moving that I had to walk out of my office to give my wife (who is a much bigger Biggest Loser fan than Lost fan) a kiss. Josh Holloway is one of the most underrated performers on television, and a bright spot in an already stellar cast.
Fake Locke/Smokey/Man in Black’s dismantling of who John Locke was was awesome. I love how he was able to point out every flaw in Locke’s character and brag about how he exploited each of them to get what he wanted. In his explanation, I almost feel that he was telling Ben to his face EXACTLY how he used him as well.
Favorite line was Hurley – “I’ve got a gun!” struggle struggle “And I know how to shoot it!”
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:15 pm
@Matt here is the link to the poster with the clues. I right clicked it and saved it and printed it so I could examine it more.
http://www.nothingsforever.com/dcpb/final/
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:16 pm
RYAN AND JEN!
Did you know ABC Nightly News mentioned you both and showed a photo of you in their segment on LOST? They mentioned the various podcasts and had sound bytes from your shows. They also showed a photo of you both.
Congratulations on all your success. You both really deserve it. Looking forward to your thoughts and insight this season.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:16 pm
Joe this is different image than the Last supper pictures.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:16 pm
Okay, so when Juliette detonated the bomb at the end of Season 5, it caused Oceanic 815 to land at LAX as scheduled but since the chain of events had already transpired in the lives of the cast stuck in 1977, things were NOT reset for them.
Consequently (and I can’t even speculate on the reason), they were returned to the point in time where they SHOULD be in the chain of events that they had lived through up to then.
This means that the timeline of Oceanic 815 has been split into two separate versions. I feel like this may have been mentioned on The Transmission but something similar happens “The Wastelands,” the third book of Stephen King’s The Dark Tower series. In “The Wastelands” one character uses time travel to prevent the death of another character, causing a new chain of events. As a result, both are gradually driven crazy because they become increasingly aware of the two timelines. (Ironically, the character that is saved lives in 1977!)
I wonder if this book holds any clues as to what will happen in Lost? Either way, this season is off to an AMAZING start!! I can’t wait to hear your opinions of the premiere!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:17 pm
I also looked at the poster in photoshop so I could get close up on everything and there definitely is someone in black on the black rock ship.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:18 pm
@Carol – oh, this is a different one, thanks for posting the link!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:18 pm
I can’t believe that no one is asking the question that kept me distracted from the first 10 minutes…
How the holy hell does the island get onto the bottom of the ocean in alternate-LAX world?
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:18 pm
Line of the night:
“Nothing is irreversible”
Damn Jack, you’re alright.
Sawyer is saltier than ever. I feel so terrible for him.
I’ve heard that Darlton are calling this new narrative device ‘flash-sideways’
very innovative!
Dogen = Greatest Other of all Time
Kanye West would agree.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:20 pm
Also CONGRATULATIONS on the Nightline plug!
That is epic!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:22 pm
@Bryan – read this article about this episode with questions and answers with Carlton and Damon, it poses some clues to the underwater island.
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:23 pm
As to beleaguered Ben, he still remains the leader. In a now familiar form of suggestion. someone asks who the leader is and Ben runs right out onto the scene. (Just as when Ben said he couldn’t control what came out of the jungle and all that appeared was Flocke.) So, if Ben is the leader and only he could kill Jacob, does that mean he’s the only one that can take out the man in black as well? It’s obvious he’s realized he’s made a colossal mistake by now (pun intended.)
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:23 pm
quote about the poster I was talking about from TVOvermind.com
A while ago, ABC commissioned various artists to create posters for various important scenes throughout the series. Last night, the final poster was revealed at a show, attended by Lindelof, Cuse and others. According to Lindelof and Cuse, the final poster apparently contains two clues for season 6 of LOST.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:24 pm
@Carol thanks, I’d never seen that poster
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:26 pm
They split the timeline! I can’t believe it.
@Danocamera:
As I watch this, I am also reminded of the Waste Lands. The writers of LOST are huge Stephen King fans, and J. J. Abrams is supposed to be directing the TV adaptation of the Dark Tower series.
Luke
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:28 pm
Did they have to bring Juliet back just so they could kill her off again???? I did not want to live through her death again — once was enough.
I’m looking forward to your podcast!
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards,
Mike R.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:30 pm
Unreal. So fantastic, I don’t even know what to say. I’m speechless.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:31 pm
@Mike – I know, it was heart breaking. Emmy moment right there.
Will we see a flash sideways of new otherton? Do they still exist or die in the bombing?
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:40 pm
So, what’s the story about Desmond on the plane? Sure, with no button to push, he has this whole other life to live, but how does it get him on flight 815?
What did Juliet mean with “It worked”?
When Hurley said that he had won the lottery and Sawyer looked over at him, I thought that Hurley had just become Sawyer’s next “mark” for a con. I’m sure we’ll find out about that soon enough.
How is Sayid going to be different now that he’s back? I think it was Matt in Syracuse that thought that Ben might have become the vessel in which a deceased other could live again after they brought him to the temple – I like that theory, and I wonder if it applies to Sayid as well.
So many things in the reset timeline reflected directly back to the original timeline – Charlie saying that he was “supposed” to die, Boone saying that he’d “follow” Locke, Jin telling Sun to button the top button of her cardigan. I guess that was the universe course-correcting.
I hate ABC advertising – they run their ad about this being the season for answers, and I have more questions than I got answers. Dammit, I have to get up and go to school tomorrow morning, and I’m not going to get any sleep tonight.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:44 pm
@ Stacey NC
I feel your pain about school.
Prepare for Wednesday mournings to suck for 16 more weeks.
But you’ll miss it when LOST is gone.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:50 pm
Damon & Carlton were just on Jimmy Kimmel. DVR it if you can!
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Hey, on Jimmy Kimmel they just announced a spinoff show starting in May starring Hurley and the smoke monster, LOL! I hope it’s a comedy…
;-P
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Guys it was amazing!!
Each character had their moments
and if you liked the first half, you will LOVE the second part
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Stacey, when Juliet said “it worked”, I assume she meant the alternative timeline that we’ve seen this episode.
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:10 pm
@Luke in California: I was totally psyched about a JJ Abrams take on The Dark Tower until I read this:
http://www.cinematical.com/2009/11/10/j-j-abrams-not-adapting-kings-dark-tower-series/
Phooey. Totally understandable, but still… phooey.
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:11 pm
I bet Jacob had them bring Sied to the temple so he could take over his body and come back,,hence the delay in coming back to life???
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Now what to think of Richard’s comment to Sun that he saw them all die? If the island sunk from explosion then how did he and Sun arrive there… So does this mean there is even another timeline we don’t yet know of? about Charlie saying he was supposed to die & Jack should not have saved him? Why did Locke lie to Boone about actually taking his walkabout tour? Did Jack remember Des from his run at the stadium or is he having crossover memory? Obviously with Shannon missing, etc….events as we would have seen them have changed for some people but will the universe teach us about course correction?!?! All in all this is great so far!
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Ok I’ll be sure to call in this week…
BUUUUUT my thoughts:
1. Did anyone else think it silly that even though everything else is left behind when the losties flash to 2007….EXCEPT the van and chains and everything they need..including the guitar. L O L
2. Also speaking of silly, was anyone else thinking the entire time they are trying to save Juilet (who dies anyway) “why isn’t anyone rushing to save Syaid…he’s just sorta bleeding to death and has been for a whole day!!!!”
3. The Ash I always assumed was to keep something held it, turns out it’s to keep MiB out… but as we just learned from graham getting owned. Doesn’t it seem fishy that the smoke monster can just bash stuff and make the ash a mute point. Couldn’t he have just uprooted some trees or ripped up the ground with the ash on it around the cabin?
4. At first I was confused why some asian dude seemed to be leading the others in the temple…but maybe this makes sense. Wasn’t the last time we saw these people 3 years ago when Ben sent them there. Maybe they never left cause Richard, Ben, etc haven’t been there since. So maybe this new dude is the temp leader?!? no clue.. but they seem like an entirely different group than the people we are used to as “others” now.
5. Best scene of the 2 episodes was suprisingly Jack and Locke’s conversation. I really enjoyed it. Might be nice to see them as friends off island.
6. Kate’s “plot”… LAME. I’m convinced she has become like Jack Bauer’s daughter in the first few seasons of 24. Just silly.
7. Best for last:
I assume the murkey water is becuase jacob is dead. And so the healing powers of the spring are gone. I assume the guys hand didn’t heal right? So that means Sayid did in fact die. And NO ONE can come back from the dead. Which means, Sayid is now Jacob? Which would mean, Jacob knew syaid would die and that his plan all along was to have him die so he could take his body.
Just puttin it out there.
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:25 pm
@ Matt in Syracuse
OH WOAH… I never thought Locke would be in Sayid. NOW THAT would be a twist.
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:32 pm
HOLY DAMN! That was the best season premiere since the first. Anti-Locke is the monster! Sayid sounds British! Richard scared! Ben dazed and confused!
Bram thought he outsmarted Smokey with the ash circle, but he threw a rock at him and knocked him out of the circle and impaled him. Loved it.
The Temple Others, didn’t Richard mention that half of his people were with him when Anti-Locke met up with him in Season 5, and that half were at the Temple. I enjoyed the translator asking why the water wasn’t clear. Does this mean that as long as Jacob was alive, the island could heal?
In the LAX world, I think Jack will heal John and somehow Locke will return to confront Anti-Locke. Also, did John actually go on the walkabout in this world, or was he just BS’ing Boone?
Can’t wait for next week!
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Warning: Really crackpot theory…
Tonight got me thinking of something I noticed a while back. In “Not in Portland” when Kate and Juliette are “escaping” from the barracks they are attacked by the monster. However when the monster appeared, it came out of 3 separate holes in the ground before merging into one big cloud. This got me thinking that there might be more than 1 smoke monster. Maybe there are a number that each have the ability to infect (hence the vaccine) people to share their bodies. In doing so the host gains certain abilities (like the others or the wilderness man version of Locke that we saw in season 1), in exchange the smoke monster learns how to be human. My thought is that the monsters represent a race from wherever dark Locke identified as “home” who have brought their battle to the island and somehow became imprisoned. Dark Locke occupied John’s body until it was returned to the island at which time it used what it had learned to become him (which is why DL knew John’s last thoughts). Christian would have carried one with him as well from when he was on the island, and that “monster” became the island’s version of Christian. I’m guessing we will see the same from Claire. I’m not entirely sure why Dark Locke is the only one that seems to want to go “home,” but I’m guessing we’ll find that out soon.
Thoughts?
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:41 pm
@ Jesse.
1) Dead Locke (Box Locke)
2) Flashsideways Locke (alt LOCKE)
3) MiB LOCKE (smokey LOCKE)
4) now potentially a 4th locke? (sayid locke)
John locke was a great character, but lets be honest does he need all these incarnations.
The Sayid one is just ludicrous!
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:49 pm
I don’t see why it would matter if Sayid’s voice was different, cause Man in Black took John Locke’s voice.
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Hello all! Great to be back on the Lost track. I was Connie in Alaska, but we moved to Oregon during the hiatus. I am now going to attempt to read all 111 comments. If I have anything to add, I’ll be back.
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:22 pm
@ Kvives Monroe. FLOCKE (fake locke) is now Sayid then hes in the temple. I was thinking about that too
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Random other though.. The island was underwater..theres a statue on there… Any thoughts about being the Lost City of Atlantis and the 2 guys MIB and Jacob are the original people on there? Kind of like Gods or Aliens or something? The island sinks in the alternate reality, meanwhile it can move through time, and cannot be found by people without special means. Atlantis was never found… or was it by the Losties and Dharma?
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:28 pm
Awesome.
Ryan and Jen have often pointed out LOST’s theme focusing on people’s tendency to revert to their sort of base nature. Just when it seems someone is going to really come out better, they fall back into the same patters of suspicion, jealousy, anger, etc. I’m seeing some of that again with Sawyer. At the end of Season 5, he was at the height of his maturity as a character; after Juliet’s death, he’s all seething and angry again. Granted, who wouldn’t be? But, as I said, I’m still holding out for some kind of redemption to come out of these circumstances, for all our characters. Sayid’s resurrection (at the hands of Jacob?) gives me hope for that.
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:39 pm
HFC! Yeah I liked it. Way to many things to discuss, but one theory that might have been answered was that Richard Alpert is a survivor and slave from the Black Rock. In LA X 2 FLocke said to Richard the line “I ‘m glad to see you got out of those chains”. After hearing that I couldn’t help but think of the shackled skeletons we saw in the hull of the Black Rock back in seasons 1 & 3.
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Maybe Sayid is now Juliet…Miles’ expression making more since…now it is “Sayid : Juliet :: Suliet lives! Haha…ugh
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:55 pm
More, More, More!! were my words at the final LOST thud that ended this amazing premiere episode! I want more and I don’t want to wait a week!
A few thoughts:
Why would Desmond have been in Australia? Why was he off the Island at all? Most of the LAX Losties had some subtle changes: Boone was Shannonless, Hurley actually felt like the LUCKIEST guy in the world (wha’?), Locke supposedly went on the walkabout, Charlie tried to kill himself.
What is in that ash, and why does it affect the MIB/Smoke Monster?
Is that fountain-of-youth spring located in the temple the real treasure of the Island that must be kept from be exploited at any cost? Is Jacob the guardian of the spring? Was Widmore planning to come back and exploit the spring’s healing properties?
What was it that made Juliet certain that “it worked”?
How long has it been since the MIB last saw Richard? Perhaps a long time since Richard was “in chains” then. Was he a slave, a prisoner? Whatever it was, Richard looked scared spitless when he realized who was occupying John’s body.
Loved seeing Aaron’s two mommies in the same cab!
I agree with Jeremy in Rochester that having Jacob as Sayid would be a little worrisome. I think it is entirely possible, but I like Sayid as Sayid.
Did the water in the spring look like it cleared up right before Sayid came back to life?
Finally, why did MIB/Locke apologize to Ben about appearing to him like that? Been has had numerous close encounters with Smokie: Ben knew how to release Smokie from under his house, Smokie/Alex threatened to beat the crap out of him if he didn’t listen to Locke, etc. My thought is that Smokie may not have always been MIB or that there is more than one manifestation of the Smoke Monster. Also, Smokie is described by several different people as a security system and not as Jacob’s nemesis.
Gotta go, Nightline is coming on!
February 2nd, 2010 at 10:41 pm
A land between heaven and hell?
Wow. What an interesting ride thus far! What other show in recent history has so many people talking about it and trying to figure out the details! A wonderfully shared experience!
Big question – if Locke is the smoke monster, what was with the mechanical noises?
And I thought the execs said that the final reveal would NOT be that the people were dreaming – so I hope they have some good explanations for things!
So – be gentle as this is my first time putting forward a theory but….
Evil Locke says he wants to go home. Could be:
Lucifer wanting to return to heaven after a failed attempt to take over and God kicked him out. Now after wandering the earth- he tired of the pathetic existence here in comparison to what he knew in the heavens. (He talks to Ben about their pathetic existence)
Jacob – like Christ, was betrayed by a friend.
Then -
Sayid – has some Christ like images with injured in the side (like Christ when poked by the Roman spear) Sayid comes back to life AFTER an allotted time. (Christ came back after 3 days)
Sayid was put under the water (like baptism) and was carried out with this hands out like on the cross. He was dead – then came back to life only could it now be Jacob? ie Christ returning to defeat evil?
It is as if the Island is like a place between Heaven and Hell where the morality play between good and evil, Christ and the Devil is being played out using the lives of those who found themselves stranded there.
Anyway – just my first thoughts – thanks for reading and it’s fun to figure this out with all of you!!!
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:17 pm
I give up. No more theories. I’ll go crazy if I try.
I’m just going to sit back and relax and let the Final Season envelope me like the fluid in a sensory deprivation tank.
I have some thoughts/comments though (posted also on Yublog):
1) Where’s Juliet in the “we made it to LAX” world? Miami somewhere married to Zelko?
Where is Christian Sheperd in both worlds?
2) Did Greg Grunberg voice Seth Norris?
3) Will we have to rewatch all 5 seasons again to get another perspective on Smokey?
4) Is THAT why John didn’t get killed by Smokey?
5) Before Adawale quit, what would have things meant when Smokey didn’t kill him?
6) Don’t want to bring BSG into this, but has all of this happened before? The “Red Others” seemed to have things down to a T when they found out Jacob was dead.
7) DWG/UnLocke has only “seen” Richard when he was clapped in irons. Was Richard a slave on the Black Rock?
Lastly, can Terry O’Quinn conceivably be nominated 3x times for an Emmy for playing Locke, Locke, and UnLocke concurrently?
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:19 pm
One last last thought.
Is Sayid the new Ben Linus? Cuz we all know the last time someone with a gunshot wound got brought into the Temple.
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:35 pm
Regarding the discussion between Bram & Ilana in “The Incident” about Frank’s potential as a “candidate,” it appears that they were seeking a vessel for Jacob’s spirit, a bill that Sayid is now filling quite aptly… Or not…
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:46 pm
I see that a lot of you are commenting about Sayid’s voice being different after he “comes back to life”. Before Sayid was taken into the water we are told that there could be side effects so I don’t believe that any of you are wrong in suggesting that something is different about Sayid.
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:13 am
I didn’t remember if I told you that Jacob was keeping AJ on Island to prove him wrong before sending him to the real world where he would decide not to play god. Well, now it has been made quite clear.
): 4 8 15 16 23 42. If whatever happened happened on Island then it means the numbers in this universe are still correct. The end of the world is still coming really fast.
And AJ told you all exactly what I told you long ago: Poor sad and manipulable John Locke! (After trying to manipulate Eko)
Well… Answers are coming! That is totally awsome!
Now what I want to know is: what happen when a child murderer gets revive in the Temple and loose is “innocence”? Sayid is going to be awesome! And Ben/Sayid is going to be something now!
Ok, new prediction (since all those I did seems to fit! except when they send fake Comic Con stuff that prevent me from finding out what I should keep into account
Now my big theory on what is happening this season: they are doing flashsideways to help us see what is going in the new universe and how our characters are developping (good bad whatever… but they are still somewhere in our world), we are going to developpe emotionnal connections toward them because on the Island universe they are going to fight and kill AJ to prevent him from being released appound our world (where he would be a god) but by doing so they will have to die (and probably even bring destruction to this whold universe).
So the end is going to be very emotional because we will see them sacrifice for all of us and see that they are still alive (or not) and well in our universe somewhere.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:02 am
More thoughts after hanging out in a LOST chat. Some of these aren’t mine but came up in chat.
-If the numbers aren’t bad/bad luck why would Hurley have them since their being bad is why he got them form Leonard in the first place.
-If the island is underwater or was “moved” there in 197x, how could there be a tower broadcasting the numbers in 1988 for Sam Toomey & Leonard to hear them and eventually getting to Hurley
-Screencaps show that WAS the Dharma-logoed shark in the underwater island shot
-Was Charlie choking on the Heroin in a rear lavatory vs a forward lavatory in the Pilot?
-So where does this leave Inman? Desmond never being on the island means he’s alive? Or did he never make it on-island?
-Funny how Jack actually needed a pen this time (vs Boone suggesting it and jack not taking him seriously in the Pilot)
-The Temple Spring. Does it just heal the injured (Ben)? Or can it reanimate the dead (Sayid)? Is that why Christian and Claire are walking around?
-Or are “Claire” and “Christian” corporeal forms of the Man In Black, them being in “Jacob’s Cabin” where MIB was imprisoned behind a salt line?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:03 am
Christian Shephard’s coffin & body: did we follow its voyage to the bottom of the ocean to settle at the foot of the temple? Is that how it got lost from flight 815? Did it flash out of the plane during turbulence much like how some of the O6 ended up in 1974 when they were on the Ajira flight? So maybe that underwater scene is not actually 2004.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:05 am
Okay, one more thing.
The “never crashed-made it to LAX” timeline is 2004.
The Ajira-Crash/back from the 70s group are both in 2007. (Note the fireworks)
Will the two timelines meet? Or what happens in the LAX 2007?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:09 am
@Lydia
Didn’t the Oceanic Guy in LAX say the coffin was never loaded onto the plane? Or am I mistaken?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:58 am
@ManilaRaf:
-If it is an alternate universe: If Hurley is never had nothing bad happening to him, he never went to psychiatry. Thus the numbers he played never came from the hospital.
-Neither Leonard nor Desmond came upon the transmission or the Island because the Island had sink during their time line. So either Desmond succeded his race or maybe Hawkin in his universe never discouraged him to marry Penny and maybe he is married with her now (do I see a ring for a plit second???)
_The sharks existed before the big universe changer which was the Atomic Bomb. The Island probably sink around that time (remember what Faraday said in 1954: In the futur the Island is still here because the bomb has not exploded… Well now it did!)
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:00 am
Great article I found:
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/lost/losts-alternate-timeline-its-j-34234.aspx
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:23 am
I think that the timeline split when Juliet made a choice to hit Jughead. In the alternative universe she was successful, the bomb went off, which sunk the island and the plane landed. In the regular universe the bomb didn’t go off, the plane crashed, and the Losties flashed back to 2007.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:02 am
I have lot’s of questions. One why did Kate not associate taking Sayid to the temple with taking Ben to the temple. If I where her I would have protested. If it did that to Ben what would it do to Sayid. Second is our Japanese temple leader subordinate to Richard or is he a leader equal to Ben and under Jacob. My theory is that he never leaves the temple area and is the leader there. He is subordinate to Jacob and technically to the island leader (whomever that is at the time.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:22 am
More confused than ever. Still not sure what to think of the premiere. Had low expectations going in with all the timeline reset talk. Was very pleasantly surprised to see Desmond on the plane! Really hope the book he was reading was not “A Tale of Two Cities” as I still have fears that he will have to make the ultimate sacrifice. Like many others, I thought Juliet’s second death scene was redundant–but my guess is that she is now “flashing” like Des and one can hope she was meeting Sawyer for the first time in the “alternate timeline” and suggesting they get coffee. The puzzle foremost on my mind right now is the whole Eko storyline. If MIB is Smokey, why all the machinations at the end of Season 2 to get Eko to keep pushing the button. Or is it possible that was not Smokey/MIB and instead was Jacob speaking in dreams? Was Eko killed by MIB/Smokey then for following Jacob’s orders to keep pushing the button? So, how many millions of people are suffering the new epidemic of headache and insomnia casually referred to as Lostitis?
DVR’d the Nightline so I am looking forward to the Transmission shout-out. Congrats Ryan and Jen!
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:29 am
Why would Richard go to the trouble of “saving” Ben if Ben isn’t reallly Ben, same with Sayid? You aren’t saving them if they are taken over by another “spirit”.
Thoughts about the MIB- When have you seen him do anything evil. In the Season 5 finale, he seems weary and disgusted with Jacob for bringing people to the island. If MIB and Smokey are the same thing, realize that Smokey has only killed people that smokey has judged as being bad. In the temple Smokey gave Bram and his men the option of leaving unharmed and they shot at him first.
It seems to easy that Smokey is the bad guy and Jacob is the good guy, the “good guys” aka the others have been kidnapping children, torturing people, killing people all in the name of Jacob.
Maybe Jacob is the one fooling everyone. I am not sure how this is going to work out but I am not assuming anything at this point. During one of the official Lost Podcasts towards the end of season 4 or 5, Carlton and Damon were listing off if characters were good or not and when they said Jacob, they said “not”. I have to go back and find that podcast.
@Jen – I have to agree with you, not sure about how I feel about these two timelines. There was a lot of change in one episode and I have to get used to all of it.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:31 am
Whoops, sorry if that podcast remark was a spoiler, I can’t go back and edit!! Sorry no caffeine yet, it is 8:30 am and I was up late trying to figure out Lost.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:33 am
Ughhh, bla phooey! More lost than ever! Please Ryan and Jen, don’t eat, sleep, go to the bathroom or even get a drink of water! I neeeeed you guys now! Podcast Podcast Podcast!!!
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:36 am
I believe that Juliet experienced her life in the alternate timeline right before her death. I truly expect that we will see an episode (perhaps even the last episode?) where she is reunited with Sawyer and asks him our for a coffee… and even offers to go dutch.
Which then begs the question, can one reunite with the other timeline through death? Will each of the Losties have to die in order to join with the consciousness of their counterparts who landed at LAX?
I’m not a big fan of the alternate timeline, but if somehow these two worlds begin to meet, you’ll have me hook, line and sinker.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:47 am
@Danie: MIB was looking for bodies to use to manipulate someone into killing Jacob. He first meet John who is really nice to manipulate but the problem is: he is not a killer. So when he meets the penitent Eko and the body of his dead brother on Island he thought he had the best person to manipulate into killing. Unfortunaly for him Eko rebelled against his brother and so got killed by Smokey because he was now useless. During that time in season2 John was lost. MIB had to go back to using John during season3 (starting by a dream telling him go get Eko back! I need him! (and Eko rebelled later so that why the “Island” wanted him back and killed him moments later))…
The “you got to kill your father” test to prove that you are the leader, and the leader being the only one that can see Jacob (a way to protect him, that unfortunally for him was “loopholed” by Ben’s returned) prove that the decision of who is the next leader has been manipulated by MIB since a long time.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:56 am
Jacob DO send lists! They are on the Ankh List! (that’s why he asked their names)
And when you are on the List, you need to be protected (thus taken by the Others on Island and brought to the Temple!)
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:00 am
Thanks again for the season 3 re-watch. It really helped make the break from Lost palletable.
You’ve already mentioned the possiblity that Jacob is inhabiting Sayid. I jumped to the same conclusion. It seems to fit, but time will tell.
Other bits that caught my attention.
Jack says to John Locke. “Nothing is irreversable”. I think this is the writers talking to us more than it’s Jack talking to Locke. What this means in terms of the upcoming plot is hard to say.
Desmond disappears on a plane. On the surface this doesn’t seem odd, but given how Desmond has jumped through time and always been special, I believe his sudden abesnse and the fact that Rose did not seem is also ’special’. I’m not sure how, but I believe this is important.
I am convinced the two timelines will connect, but I do not know how. Theories?
Ernie
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:05 am
Did Juliette’s re-death remind anyone else of Austin Powers. I kept waiting to hear her cry out from the rubble. “I’m not quite dead yet. I’m just very badly burned.”
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:09 am
@yann – just when I think of a theory, you come up with a better one. I am more confused than ever.
@ernie- I agree, somehow it will all converge at the end.
Have to join real life now and go about my day.
Can’t wait for the podcast.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:41 am
ManInBlack (who I still would like to call Esau) is not using John Locke’s body, because John Locke’s body is lying in the sand by the large crate. So, if Jacob has similar powers, he doesn’t need Sayid’d dead body as a vessel. I wouldn’t take the voice difference (yet) to mean anything, after all, if one was just drowned, then there would be a need to clear the air passage. Only Miles knows for sure.
The Sideways universe/timeline/whatevva holds some significant “departures” from the original flight 815. And if its departures are different, then its arrival isn’t the same. It’s not the same flight. The seating isn’t the same. The view out the window isn’t the same.
My curiosity and number of questions has exploded. The answers we have been given are of trivial things. So, we now know what’s in the guitar case. But more curiously: what was the content of the note? How could Sensei Other be convinced by it that it was legitimately from Jacob. He asks their names. Another list, I suppose. Lists. They’ve always been important to the show.
Will we see a number of different sidelines, or will the one alternate story we have sen so far continue. Darlton can’t just stop telling it: they need to either continue that one side story through to its end (the end of the season/show), or tell a different sideline story each week. Which will it be?
Nothing is Irreversible Whatever Happened Happened
I believe that once you open the Pandora’s box of time travel, anything is possible. Not in reality, but in storytelling. I presently can not conceive a single timeline that accounts for all that we have seen. WMHHMHH = “What Might Have Happened, Might Have Happened.” On Lost, anything might have happened.
At this point, I have suspended efforts to concoct an overarching theory. To me, Lost (the show) is a mighty adventure ride full of sharp twists and sudden drops, and being raised to lofty heights from where we glimpse incomplete but breathtaking vistas.
To me, the only question framework that I ponder within is where will Darlton steer this as storytellers so that we, the fans, are not eminently let down at the end. I, for one, do not expect An Answer, let alone all the loose ends tied together.
My question for you: before S6X2 reveals the answer: will we see yet another Flight 815 alternate reality, or will we see a continuation of the one we have already started down?
Enjoy the Ride!
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:42 am
@Ernie: Jack was the only one to see Desmond. Like Hugo is the only one to see dead people. And Jack is the only one who seems to notice that something is “strange”. Maybe Jack dreamed Desmond. But that seems pretty unlikely.
I already posted a theory about Desmond but I am pretty sure that he is well aware about what is going on. Since how important these guys have been to him for 2 “lifes” I am not surprise he would have wanted to be part of their flight if he could (and he could since he has not wreaked on the sink Island in this dimension). (Can someone with a highdef video tell me if he wears a wedding ring visible only a split second when he raises to let Jack pass back to his seat)
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:45 am
I’m concerned with the whole “I just want to go home” thing with Fake Locke. I have a bad feeling this is going to resolve itself that he’s some sort of alien or something and I can’t see that being anything but a terrible ending.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:48 am
I hadn’t the courage to read all of the above, but here is my theory on the “Flash Sideways”:
What if it was a flash forward in the storytelling ?
What i mean is that i think that the Plain Landing safely in LA is what is going to happen after the end of this season (to the losties after they defeat Unlocke).
The genius of this version is that nobody realise that we are seing what is going to happen beyon the end of the show.
I may be wrong, but i thought it was worth sharing.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:52 am
The alternate timeline makes perfect sense to what the message has been regarding time travel ever since the Island started moving. We see that the explosion “worked”, as Juleitte said, in that the incident never happened and 815 didn’t crash. But, this also changed other things in the alternate timeline – Hurley had good luck, not bad luck, etc.
And with the original timeline – the Losties could just disappear, like Marty from the photo in Back to the Future, as if they’d never been there. That would create a paradox, because if they were never there, then they couldn’t set off the bomb. So they had to continue on that timeline. But the big question there is, why did they get bumped back up to present day and not perish, apparetnlty, with the island and the other inhabitants? Did the explosion actually “reset” everyone in that timeline back to their original time as well as produce the second timeline/reality?
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:58 am
I HATE the parallel storylines. I can’t keep up with two parallel stories and three plots all going on at once. Do you think that the parallel stories will somehow come together by the end? I kinda think they have to. Otherwise, we have TWO endings and that’s just untenable.
And now I have MORE questions! Why was Desmond on the plane? Where were Walt and Michael?
And I finally noticed something that I never realized before – John’s paralyzed from falling on his back and Jack’s a spinal surgeon! Duh!!
Damon and Carlton evidently said on Jimmy Kimmel last night that Sayid is NOT being “possessed” (or whatever) by Jacob. I don’t like THAT one bit.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:00 am
Jacob gave up too easy, like a lamb at slaughter. As Sayid was lifted from the pool, the position of his arms symbolized the cross. My guess is Jacob is resurrected as Sayid.
REDEMPTION is apparent with the LAX-bound cast — Jack gives Locke his business card; Sawyer warns Hurley about “con men”; Boone is “over” his sister Shanon; Hurley’s jinx is gone; Charlie is busted. Not yet sure about Jin & Sun, Locke, Kate and Desmond. Desmond on the plane – wtf? Desmond did look well-groomed and successful.
I would bet that Ben Linus is really “in” with Jacob. He’s too much of a player to be “shocked” by everything that’s happening.
Great Temple set — wow! Cindy, Artz, Neil! I looked hard for Nicky and Paulo on the plane.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:27 am
This is my theory about the spring. I have to get it out there. This was all a part of Jacob’s plan. @ Bill: I agree Jacob gave up too easily. So:
The spring was clear, and had healing powers.
When Jacob died the spring became tainted and lost those powers; because when the Japanese dude cut his hand and stuck it in he was surprised that it didn’t heal.
For some reason they tested it out on Sayid, and it didn’t work. Causing him to die.
He was then resurrected as Jacob.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:43 am
1. Did anyone else think it silly that even though everything else is left behind when the losties flash to 2007….EXCEPT the van and chains and everything they need..including the guitar. L O L
We know that everything that they are touching, they keep. Like Sawyer holding the well rope, and the boats, and their clothes. Some were at the van at the time of the flash. Were they holding chains?
Also, maybe anything that they bring out of one time period by touching is just linked anytime they flash again. That poor rope is just jumping through time.
Back to old issues…
In the short time that the Losties were on the island… A fake plane with bodies was made and put on the bottom of the ocean floor. Why and How so fast? Who knew that they were on the island at that point in order to get that plan going? and still… Why? It’s a reverse of the Bad CGI island shot we got in this premier, where the plane is fine but the island is underwater.
( My goodness that shot looked like a video game. Why not take a model and actually shoot it underwater? )
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:50 am
For the most part, everyone is asking the same questions I have. Here are a couple more (as if we need any more):
-Flight from Australia to LAX. Why is Jack still sporting the 70’s haircut instead of his buzz cut from episode 1?
-Ben (as a child) was brought by Richard to the temple to “fix” him. Is it just me or do I recall Michael doing the same thing with Walt? I could be wrong here. If not, Walt may not be Walt as well. It’s been so long that I just can’t remember.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:01 am
he island is underwater? A development that comes about sometime after New Otherton is built?
- New otherton is the same as Dharmaville It isn’t after the others moved in but after the Dharama folk went off island in 77
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:03 am
Posted my theory “Whatever Happened happened, Except” here: http://zhami.posterous.com/a-theory-on-lost-whh-except
Essentially: the “sideflash” we are have seen (and the flashbacks prior to flight 815) is the main timeline. The entire on-island stuff we have seen so far is actually the sideshow.
The War is Coming!
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:12 am
It is great to be back in the Lost community where we can bounce ideas off each other…I love it!
ManilaRaf-you had the same thought I did about the timelines. It is not a direct “flash sideways”. What is happening with the LAX’ers is happening in 2004, while everyone on the Island is in 2007. A flash diagonally? Don’t know yet what this means for the storyline.’
Matt in LA-like your biblical comparison. Lots of parallels there! Bill comments that Jacob gave in much to easily. In keeping with the Christ comparisons, Jesus went to his death like a lamb to the slaughter also. He did so because he knew it was his fate and God’s will. Jesus even agonized over what was to come in the Garden of Gethsemene, asking God to please spare him. Was Jacob following a similar script, not wanting to go through what was in store for him, but knowing it was his fate for the greater good of everyone on the Island?
Everyone seems to assume that the New 815 is flying right over the Island, but the animated “path” from the jet, down through the clouds, into the water and to the submerged Island could have covered hundreds of miles. It didn’t necessarily mean it was directly under the jet.
ManilaRaf asks where is Juliet in the new timeline. If it is 2004 she may be dead with all the other Others who were on the Island in 2004. That is assuming she was ever there. Will have to stay tuned.
Terry Partoni-I like your call that Ilana and Bram saw Lapidas as a potential candidate to “house” Jacob…wonder what Frank would have said to that!
Finally, and someone else touched on this also, I find it ironic that Sayid is taken to the temple to save his life the same way that Boy-Ben was after Sayid shot him in 1977.
Great discussion…keep it comin’!
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:19 am
Just recalled a detail from that LOST chat I was in last night.
We’ve seen an ankh before on the show. Paul (Amy’s husband; Amy who would go onto marry Horace) was wearing an ankh necklace. The same Paul whose body was given to the Hostiles in the 1970s.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:25 am
Jack lost his pen because Kate stole it from him when she was coming out of the toilet. She later used it to free herself from the handcuffs.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:31 am
@ConnieinOregon: The part that makes me doubt that everyone on the island is dead in the LAX 2004 is Desmond. Unless the fact that we’re seeing him is a manifestation of his being special as Mrs Hawking said, he’s an example of those living on the Island aren’t dead but in the rest of the world in the LAX 2004.
And there’s always Inman. Without Desmond there, he wouldn’t have been killed. And if the Island moved to the bottom of the Pacific, he’d have never been recruited into “Dharma” in the 90s to man the Swan Hatch.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:32 am
Great comments Ryan/Jen. As usual you find the the gems in every episode.
You and a few others have said that Juliet’s comment (through Miles) that “It worked” may mean that she can see the whole timeline from wherever she is in death. My observation is that she knew this BEFORE she died because this is the important thing she was going to tell Sawyer right before she died. It could be that something was revealed to her AS she was dying, but she was definitely still alive when she *knew* that “it worked”.
You also commented that Hurley seemed strangely OK with seeing dead Jacob, but you must remember that Hurley has been talking to dead people for most of the three years that he was off the Island (Charlie, Eko, Libby, Ana Lucia). What would seeing dead Jacob be any more alarming. I agree with you that communicating with dead people is Hurley’s gift, similar to Miles’ ability.
Thanks Ryan and Jen!
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:40 am
good recap. i thought the premiere was solid. one thing i really like about the writers is their circular approach to storyline: how Jack’s failed attempt to blow up the energy mirrored Locke’s belief that not pressing the button would do nothing in Season 2; how young Ben was taken to the Temple to be revived after being shot by Sayid, and then Sayid was revived in the temple after being shot by Ben’s dad.
i see jen’s point on the parallel universe. it was interesting to watch but it does have a “what’s the purpose” feel to it. and something’s not right with it though. desmond wasn’t supposed to be on the plane. the coffin should be on the plane. sawyer’s hair should be short. and shannon’s missing (even though i think her absence is due to filming conflicts.) how could events have been altered in that timeline PRIOR to the plane?
i’m glad we can close the book on where the children have been all this time. i definitely agree that the “chains” reference points to alpert being on the black rock, which sawyer called a “slave ship.”
but…
this is my main theory from the premiere: i don’t think MIB wants to get off the island. i think the writers want us to think that, but he only said “I want to go home.” i think his home is the temple. we heard earlier that the smoke monster is a “security system” for the temple. i think he was banished at some point and has never been able to get back (similar to what we’ve seen with ben and widmore getting back to the island). the temple others have a track record of taking over other people’s property (ie: Dharmaville). that’s why i think they’re so afraid of him. biblically, jacob conned esau out of his birthright, and i think we’re seeing that played out here. with jacob now dead, MIB/Smokey/UnLocke/Esau wants to reclaim his place. richard alpert will be his bargaining chip.
best line: “I’m sorry you had to see me like that.” by MIB
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:41 am
Time to chime in with a few ideas.
First, I was thinking just the other day that… was it the numbers that let Hurley win the lottery or just his lucky charm? Seems like it was just his charm.
Which brings me to… the LAX time line is different in lots of subtle ways from how it went up to the point they all got on the plane in Sydney. I wouldn’t be too concerned with details like the plane only flying over the island originally because they were off course. The island could have moved, or the plane took a different route in the new time line (weather was probably different).
But here’s the fun bit… anyone out there a Terry Pratchett fan? This sounds a lot like traveling down the wrong trouser leg of time. The fun thing about bifurcating time streams is that both exist, similar things happen but the details change.
Don’t think this is a clean case of two separate time streams though. I think that LAX will be intruded upon. Yes, we get to see how the characters would have lived if having not been influenced by the island, but in the end I think the time lines will merge and the kinks will get worked out someway.
Or, not. Perhaps there will be two endings. The end with the big battle and the happily ever after in LAX. Oh, and Desmond is as always the rouge element in the calculation. Think Bishop from the X-Men… I feel sorry for anyone who’s character is like Bishop, the chew-toy of causality.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:43 am
A couple of thoughts:
Those who are dead who come to the island (or are on the island) can then be vessels for Jacob or the Man in Black. So, John Locke returning on Ajira allowed MIB to become him. I’m pretty convinced now that Christian Sheppard had been Jacob, at least until Ben stabbed Jacob. Sayid then became the new vessel for Jacob after Sayid was cleansed in the pool (notice how when they take him out his arms are outstretched?).
Flash-Sideways. Seems confirmed by Team Darlton now so then is this the year 2010 off the island? I mean, why the episode title of “LA X” then? Assuming “X” means 10, of some sort. 10 people crossing between the universes? 2010? Something else?
Temple leader is Japanese, seemingly out-of-place. Another person who found his way on the island in a different time period?
Richard Alpert in chains previously? A slave? Perhaps someone who used to work for the MIB but then turned on him and Jacob granted him the eternal life in exchange?
Now I wonder how the heck they are going to wrap this all up in 16 episodes?
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:47 am
I don’t know why there is even a question anymore that Locke is embodies by the Devil and Jacob is supposed to be God.
Evidence:
1) The devil hates god and hates that people follow him blindly.
2) The devil is the great deceiver, and Locke clearly deceived Ben into killing Jacob.
3) The only way god, or religion itself, can die is by man’s free will and his desire to turn against god or to not believe in him. By deceit and free will, the devil found the loophole to kill Jacob/god.
4) God and the devil exist completely outside of space and time as we know it.
5) God / Christ lays his hands on the weak and sick and heals them.
6) The devil was cast out of heaven by god because of his vanity and greed, and he’s been trying to get back in ever since. He wants to go HOME.
There’s so much more, but I think this part of the story was pretty clearly played out last night.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:05 am
HI R&J and All you great commenters. I plan to read all the posts later but I wanted to respond to Ryan’s comment about the Ankh: A sealed envelop let’s you know something forbidden is inside (like a significant List and could therefore be opened readily) – not everyone would think to break open the Ankh to find it.
I also had though Miles said, “The Word” (Which I interpreted to be a bible reference) glad (?) to learn he said, “It worked” which leaves me more confused, actually. Regardless, I’d hoped he be able to offer more.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:13 am
I thought it was weird when I first saw it, but then I kind of forgot about it – what was that red spot on Jack’s neck when he saw his reflection in the mirror in the airplane bathroom?
Another thing – does Jack on the airplane remember the events on the island, or is it all a giant deja vu? I wonder this because he didn’t seem to recognize Desmond, but he seemed to have some sense of impending doom when the turbulence hit, as if he was expecting the island events to unfold all over again.
UnLocke stated that Locke was the only one that didn’t want to leave the island. That isn’t true – Rose didn’t want to leave, either.
I didn’t notice the difference in Sayid’s voice at the end (I’ll have to re-watch it later), but the crucifixion pose as he was coming out of the pool was obvious.
The underwater scene at the beginning also reminded me of Atlantis.
I’m actually pretty satisfied with the idea that UnLocke/MiB is the smoke monster. I’m still trying to wrap my head around the ash circle and sonar fence implications of that, though.
One thing that was distracting to me (and this is really, really trivial) is that the bad hair tradition continues. The clothing that our Losties wore on the original flight 815 scenes from season one was replicated perfectly last night, but the hair was oh so different – Jack’s hair was longer, Charlie’s was all chopped off, etc. For whatever reason, they can never get the hair right.
One movie I haven’t seen mentioned here is “Sliding Doors”. Gwyneth Paltrow starred in it as a woman whose life had two parallel timelines – one in which she missed the subway train on the way home, and the other one in which she made it onto the train just in time. There was a certain amount of course correction in it (**SPOILER ALERT**) in that she kicks out her cheating, lying, live-in boyfriend, and then later takes up with another, better guy. But the paths to move on to life beyond the jerk were very different and have very different ends.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:21 am
I loved this episode and it is so great to have all of bloggers back for the last season. But John Fisher, where are your comments? I always look forward to seeming them the day after along with Connie, Paintergirl etc.
I really didn’t see the alternate timelines coming. It is nice that we finally got all of our castaways back to the same year, whew, but how the heck will the two timelines merge. Ugh – didn’t expect to have my head hurting like this so quickly!
Nothing is Irreversable will surely be the theme for this year along. It captures the life/death thems; redemption; etc. Loved that interplay.
I am struggling a bit with the man in black being the smoke monster. How does that work with him guarding the temple now that we know the temple people are scared to death of him. Also, Ben was able to go down into his basement and release him? If he is a “who”, then why would he be a security guard or pitbull in a pen waiting in the basement to be let loose? Is there more than one smoke monster? Didn’t we see Smokey divide in three once before? If this was it on the Smokey revelation than I get nervous about other answers!
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:26 am
LA X. Counted the major players on the plane… there’s more than 10. So, does X mean cross-out or cancel; stop; cross-over; road sign indicating a crossing ahead; one of Christ’s Disciples was crucified on an X cross; X marks the spot; 2010; danger, drop zone? Hell, I don’t know. I guess I like “drop zone” and “paths crossing ahead”.
@ Yann From France — Jack and Desmond HAD actually met prior to the island while both were working-out at an LA sports stadium. It’s possible Desmond was actually on the plane, but people usually stay in THEIR seats the entire flight. Why was he not there – there – then not there? They’re screwing with my head, again.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:28 am
“It worked” probably does refer to the creation of an alternate timeline, but only to the extent that it will bring the “X” men and women to the island to thwart the evil that threatens all existence.
@Jeremy
MIB’s brutal critique of Locke comes from his dark, pessimistic perspective. We can see it as a version of the truth, but do we really agree that Locke was “hopelessly broken?” Jacob would describe him differently.
I thought the note inside the ankh was simply the list of names of the visitors to the temple. How great was the symbolism of Dogen (?) breaking the staff of life only to find the list of our survivors’ names there? This is the crux of what’s transpiring.
The murky waters of the temple remind me again of the film, The 10 Commandments (in addition to Smokey being eerily similar to the Angel of Death that claims every first born not in a shelter marked by sacrificial blood.) In the 10 C, Moses visits several plagues upon Egypt to persuade the pharaoh to “let my people go.” (still offered as a choice.) One plague turns the life-sustaining waters of the Nile blood red and pollutes the water. This reminds me very much of what happened to the spring upon the death of Jacob/neutralization of the island’s energy source. I know Ramses appealed to his own deities, most notably Anubis at the death of his first-born son. He may have appealed to Tawaret to counteract the blood-dimmed tide of this plague. He offered a prayer and poured out a sacred water vessel.
@Bryan
Going home can also indicate the end of the eons-old experiment or game between AJ and Jacob. Life ends, AJ brings his backgammon pieces home, and he doesn’t have to undergo this vexing exercise any longer.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:40 am
So now it is pretty clear Jacob can save the dying and the Man In Black takes form of the dead. My theory is this is why The Others want their dead back to either burry them within temple grounds or set them off to see on a pyre…preventing MIB from using their bodies against them.
And Hurley was sent to advise The Others being the only one that can talk to dead people, most importantly, Jacob. Possibly Jacob knew this and this is why he was sent to the island by Jacob, not just touched by him. So will Hurley be the new Richard? Or leader? Since only the leader may talk to Jacob?
Not to disagree with Ryan too much, but Hurley seemed accepting of his gift back at Santa Rosa when Locke visited him (even though Locke was not a ghost), and almost proud of it when comparing powers with Miles.
Other questions: What happens if any other them die?
Where is MIB’s home? (I don’t remember him saying it’s off the island, so maybe his home is the temple)
And how did Desmond get on the plane? Or was he really? And when do we get to see Mr. Eko since he is presumably alive in the other dimension.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:46 am
I really can’t add much to all the great comments. What a mind-blowing way to start the last season!
I’m a movie music buff, and have been floored by Giacchino’s work for the entire series. His use of themes has been consistent through the series. One of the most familiar themes is known as the “life and death” theme.
One of the most awesome scenes from a music perspective was when the 815-ers are exiting the plane at LAX. Compare this scene to the scene of the Losties boarding the plane in the Season One finale. Same slow motion, same focus on the characters, but in last night’s episode, the music was strangely different. You could hear pieces and notes of the “life and death” theme, but it was definitely different. What a great very subtle way to give us another sign that things are not quite the same in the LAX timeline.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:54 am
Have been “steeping” in all the comments and thinking about Jacob’s cabin.
I think that Jacob was imprisoned in Jacob’s cabin. What got me to thinking about this is Nels’ conviction that Christian Shepard was a manifestation of Jacob.
At some point in the Island’s history, perhaps it will be revealed this season, MIB is able to wrest away at least some of Jacob’s power. MIB puts Jacob in the cabin OR Jacob takes refuge in the cabin OR Jacob’s followers (the Others) put him there for his own protection. While Jacob is in the cabin, MIB in the form of Smokie has free reign over the Island. The Others, both on and off the Island, function as Jacob’s caretakers/servants. Perhaps they brought him the body of Christian Shepherd which he possessed and then was able to move about the Island somewhat. At some point someone releases him from the cabin by breaking the ash circle.
There are no doubt lots of holes in this theory, so have at it.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:56 am
@ Stacey N, good call on the Sliding Doors reference
@ Lydia I too wonder about Christian’s Body. One of the most significant questions brought up last night
@Thom with an H – I absolutely believe you are onto it -death (the ultimate surrender) will be required to rejoin the consciousness of each LOSTie and I believe Jacob’s touch could be what helps keep the LOSTies aware of both universes and remain sane
@Knives Monroe – I wonder if Locke’s knives are where you got your Transmission handle?
@Nuckinfuts I had the exact same question about Why did Locke lie to Boone about his walkabout ?
@ Lisa: I agree that Hurley is now the Key, not just the Comic relief anymore
@everyone; great stuff again Thanks! Stay LOST
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:58 am
One more little thing. Desmond not being in Jack’s row as the plane landed could simply be explained by him returning to his own seat.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:09 am
After giving it a little more thought, Juliet died only once…though the ‘Austin Powers’ reference above was funny….She slipped and fell out of Sawyer’s grasp, hit the bottom, and after being knocked out she awoke 15/16th’s dead and started banging the bomb…flash…now she travels to the present or whenever w/ the Losties and ends up under the old Swan…why Kate ends up in a tree I have no idea….
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:15 am
A hatch explosion isn’t a hatch explosion without a naked Scotsman running around the wreckage
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:28 am
What if all of the cycles of progress (as Jacob stated) were to get to the point where they would have someone worthy to take Jacob’s place?
Has Jack Shepherd been groomed to be the new Jacob and be the heart of the island? Could Ben be the new MIB.. Hurley the new eternal Richard?
Hmmmm….
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:28 am
Juliet had a secret,but died before she had a chance to tell Sawyer. I’m calling it now,she prego!Miles lied to spare Sawyer feelings.
Also Dr. Chang is somewhere in the temple. That’s how Bram knew about him when he kidnapped Miles. He defected before the purge.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:33 am
@Bonita in Atlanta
One would assume, but actually no =)
great comments you guys!
gotta admit, I may be as confused as ever.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:35 am
PS
Ofcourse Locke lied about his trip to Boone,
The walkabout place is the one who purchased the 815 ticket for Locke remember!
Had Locke actually went on the trip he would’ve been 10 days too late for the 815 plane and would’ve went back to LAX on a different trip. If at all.
Poor Locke. Poor poor Locke. He never lived an encouraging life.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:36 am
Sayid was only “mostly dead”…….
Have fun storming the Castle! (er…..Temple!)
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:44 am
Congrats for shout-out to the Transmission on Nightline last night! It was great to hear your voices and see your picture on the screen! Much deserved attention for all your hard work the past few years!
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:57 am
Um… I’m pretty sure there’s no significance to the LAX title other than it meaning the Los Angeles airport.
As for Sayid vesseling Jacob from now on, it seems like the only explanation- really, his character has been destroyed with all the plot twists… at least in my eyes – what else could they possibly do with Sayid? Have him torture a few others, then wallow in guilt, then find a new love interest? Yaaaawn.
I do love the actor though, so having Sayid out of the way and giving Naveen some screen time as a fresh exiting charachter… sounds like a great idea.
As for the alternative timelines – I agree that they’ll have to melt them eventually, two endings would be a bit… annoying. But I love the fact that all these characters now have a chance for rehabilitation… like LAX-Locke and Sayid…
So, I propose that Damon and Carlton will smooth all their previous shortcomings in the new non-island timeline – we’ll see some hope for Locke and some clarity for Sayid… hopefully.
Can’t wait for the podcast=)
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:00 am
Ryan and Jen – can you post the Nightline shoutout? The pic was very fuzzy on Darkufo and I’m sure I speak for all of your followers who couldn’t stay up that late that we’d love to see the clip!!!
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:03 am
A TON of great perspective here. Wish I was more active here BEFORE the final season began.
Anyway…
@Rich – I agree with you. Flocke’s dismantling of Locke was definitely from his darker, more cynical perspective, and I’m sure that Jacob would disagree, but it was a nice monologue for him to show the methods he uses to manipulate and use the people he does in the midst of the game.
@Faraway J – Wow, I’ve been a fan of the Princess Bride for years, and didn’t even THINK of that joke. Well played.
I totally wish I could have seen Nightline last night, but I got caught up in some other things.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:07 am
Ryan and Jen,
Concerning dual timelines, I think Lost will borrow a few pages from a fantastic book concerning traveling through time and space: Timeline by Michael Crichton. In Timeline (not the movie BTW), a group of scientists develop a machine that can transport an individuals particles to a parallel world by copying, destroying, and replicating the particles in the separate reality. Consciousness continues through time and space, however, the individual in timeline 1 must first die in order to be replicated in timeline 2.
… And that’s where I think Lost is heading.
In order for everyone to jump into Timeline 2 (or Universe X), they must first die in Timeline 1 as Juliet did. When Juliet’s ghost speaks to Miles, she tells him “it worked” because her consciousness was and had transported into Universe X. If Darlton are planning to follow stringent rules of physics to explain what is happening, this is the only possible explanation that I can imagine.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:10 am
I just thought of something else. I think Juliette is now the new Desmond. Just like how Jack believing the bomb would reset things echoed Locke’s beliefs in Season 2, Juliette being the one who set off the bomb echoed Desmond turning the failsafe key and “restoring” things.
For her to say “it worked” must mean her consciousness — like Desmond’s — somehow gained the ability to move between the two different timelines.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:11 am
A couple of thoughts…
we know that MIB seemingly needs a dead body as a vessel to return to the island. He has had vessels for a long time; Christian and Locke for sure. There were probably dead bodies on the Black Rock, especially if they were shipping criminals to the Australian penal colony. And wasn’t there a dead body on Eko’s plane too? And so this can also explain why the islanders need to bury dead bodies. Maybe theres ash in the soil and MIB can not get to buried bodies?
OMG! I love connecting all these dots!!!
PS LOVE Ryans comment about Bram being killed by being run through with a stake!! An awesome nod to Mr Stoker’s most famous work!!
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:13 am
If the off-island Losties do come back to the island, maybe Jacob saying “they’re coming” refers to them. I don’t think they will be able to see their “other selves”. Maybe they will be the source of the whispers.
And in terms of the X, I believe it is used to represent a variable, as in the alternate Losties.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:20 am
Hey There, Ryan and Jen…
I listen to you guys constantly and love the show and LOST. I am a BIG comic book reader as well, and this Idea struck me when I saw the pool under the temple…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_Pit
Could this explain Richard as well?
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:24 am
Couldn’t the X in LA X also stand for a “crossroad”? After all, haven’t we always been told that “we have a choice” in all of our actions?
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:28 am
We are so going to reach the 250responses! That’s so great! (less for you Ryan and Jenn because it is going to be a LOT of mail/voice call/blog to read… but I am sure you will have your fun!)
@Soko: If they let go of things they don’t come with them (the boats from the freighter) and if they touch something that touch something it comes with it (the compass was in a pocket, the pocket was in their cloths).
The fake plane was Widmore’s. He put it right when he learn that a John Locke was on the plane that crashed (because he had met him and he knew he was coming to the Island) and since he was looking to where the Island might be he probably investigate all the pacific flight that would disapear.
The Island sinked when the bomb was detonated (aka post Dharma town and shark) as Faraday said it would.
@ Stubble: THANK YOU! I wondered why Jack said he did not have is pen and how Kate had one up her sleaves and absolutely made no connection.
@Adam: Huge Pratchett fan (I hope he is still ok, it’s quite tough for him I am sure being in his condition). And Vimes is my hero! But the Island is not on 4elephant on a turtle so I am not sure that the comparaison is possible… This Island only got an Hippopatamus statue.
@Ben: Very well put! I like your theory.
@Stacy: Yes Rose wanted to stay… But do you think that Ben would have ever felt threaten as a leader by Rose? Because at the end that the reason he killed Jacob, because John had the right to see him minutes after being boss (check the last conversation with Ben/Jacob) but it was fake since Jacob’s cabin wasn’t Jacob’s.
@Bill: Of course they met before. And when Jack saw him in the Swan he reconized him imediatelly! But if Desmond married Penny he never took the boat race to prove he is worthy and thus never trainned in the stadium! (I really nead someone to tell me if he has a wedding ring or not, the book he is reading really prevent us from seeing his left hand)
I said Desmond was a “ghost” more like a joke (otherwise would the stuartess would have asked help to a speaking to himself doctor (when he excused to pass)) but I stay true to my “Desmond knows” theory!
@Connie: The Jacob’s Cabin was a house build to protect Jacob to stay there (and the first place Illana went to, but she noticed that the place has been taken and burned it) but I think he moved to the Foot because it was safer. The ash is a barrier from the monster. Why would Illana who was protection Jacob go there otherwise?
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:33 am
The Bram/Stake comment was Jen’s, actually. Credit where credit is due!
The Nightline piece is here:
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/secrets-of-lost-9733658
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:35 am
Looks like island inhabitants can be utilized or invigorated for a purpose after death, “IF” they are NOT buried or burned. Christian Sheppard and Locke are good examples. Buried people seem to stay pretty-much put. Charlie was neither buried or burned.
Remember Amy’s dead husband was turned over to the Hostiles for some “recycling” reason. Sawyer buried the Hostile guys — no redemption value there. Sawyer also “made it a point” to bury Juliette. Maybe it could be called an interim life, indentured service, or even slavery. Hey, Richard Alpert — how does it feel to be free of your chains?
Was the brief turbulence on Flight 815 Christian Sheppard’s casket being removed from the plane while in-flight? Oceanic has no idea where the casket is.
Ben, in providing Locke’s corpse on flight 316, set up the Man in Black to take the bait (assume Lock’s body) to draw him out into the open for his final battle with Jacob (Locke vs. Sayid ).
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:46 am
Here’s my “WHAT-IF THE PLANE HADN’T CRASHED” Theory:
I liked how they did the “WHAT-IF THE PLANE HADN’T CRASHED” story-line. I think they’ll go the whole season with that, and then end of the season with the plane NOT crashing.
Juliet’s last words were, “It worked”, which is exactly the opposite of what Sawyer and Jack believed. The Losties will EVENTUALLY get off the island like the PLANE NEVER CRASHED, so everyone is back on the plane.
By the end of the season they’ll already have shown us in all the episodes the “WHAT-IF THE PLANE HADN’T CRASHED” so we’ll know how everyone’s story comes to a conclusion (good or bad). Juliet would still be dead, since she wasn’t a Lostie that was on the plane, etc.
WHAT WOULD THE FATE OF THE LOSTIES BE?
CHARLIE will die form a drug OD rather than herorically saving the group on the island.
JIN will go to jail and Sun run off on her own into the US instead of reuniting on the island and having a baby.
LOCKE will take JACK up on his offer of fixing his spinal injury.
SAWYER pursue HURLEY and try to scam him out of his winnings that he bragged about.
KATE will be on the run from the law…and be caught or not…
BOONE will do whatever it is that he does.
Also, when JACK & LOCKE parted, Locke smiled in almost the same way he smiled to Walt on the island before opening his mouth and revealing an orange peel.
WHERE’S WALDO?
SHANNON: So where was Shannon (Boone’s sister) on the plane? She was on the plane and the island. She sunbathed, hooked up with Sayid, and then got shot.
DESMOND: And why was Desmond on the plane for part of the trip? He arrived to the island by boat…. or did he?
AND… WHERE’S WALT?????? HIM AND HIS POP WEREN’T ON THE PLANE THAT I COULD SEE.
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:48 am
Oh yeah… and I loved seeing another Deadwood alum on Lost! The translator for the Sensei Other was John Hawkes, who played Sol Starr (Sherrif Bullock’s friend) !!
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:57 am
@Russell: WAW! Yes! Turning the safekey to explode the pocket of energy… that’s what Desmond and Juliet have in commun. That could totally explain how she knew things had change.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:03 am
X could be an unknown as well, as in Mr. X or planet X. The titles on Lost in particular are invested with meaning and double entendre. I don’t see how anyone could say the X was insignificant.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:11 am
@Connie in Oregon – Hey, I was wondering about you! Kept looking for Alaska! lol
@Russell – I too am thinking, why “LA X” and not “LAX”? Could the “X” be the Roman numeral, 10? Then what about the “LA”? OR Could it be a four letter word, third letter missing? Doesn’t even have to be an English word! An acronym maybe?
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:12 am
Possible theories/observations:
1) MIB, Eloise Hawking and Charles Widmore are in cahoots.
2) Christian Sheppard was also inhabited by the MIB, not Jacob. He, Christian, did after all help Locke go back to return the Oceanic 6 to the Island. Which gave him his “loophole.”
3) Eloise Hawking said to Jack that Dead Locke would be taking the place of his father on the Agea Flight. Locke, as we know, became MIB on his return to the Island.
4) I think Widmore is in on it too considering how much he helped Locke try to recruit the others back to the Island.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:22 am
I don’t think the timelines are meant to cross! I just think the producers are going to show us what would have happened and how their lives would still intersect even if they never crashed a question I know more than a few people have wondered.
They blew the Island up in 1977 even though they flashed back to present day WE DON’T know what repercussions that has had on the island and it is probably the cause as to why the Island sank. As you can see New Otherton was built, So the REAL question is not why the Island sank, but WHEN did it sink?
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:29 am
@Russell – I like the way you are thinking, I think it is a pretty valid theory.
New Question: When Jack gave his name to the temple others, it looked liked they paused for a minute, and that his name was more important and they recognised it. Did anybody else catch this?
I have to find the time to watch this episode again and keep in mind what you all have said. (If I can remember it all! whew)
@Yann – are you in France now? Did they show it there at the same time as here or do you watch it on itunes or something? Just curious because I thought they might delay the premiere in other countries.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:54 am
@Carol: Well… the fact that I don’t have an HD version of this video to check if Desmond has ring or not kind of means that I don’t have “valid” ways to see it as soon as you guys! I am desperate to wait for 1-a French dub awful version on a national network (Near July at 23h-00h! if they do broadcast it this year) 2-THE BLU RAYS!
I think you asked me how many time I watch an episode: once couple of days after the diffusion, second during the WE, third when they are broadcast in France and forth DVD (and fifth and six, 8 15 16 23 42…)
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:13 am
I got to lunch with Ryan yesterday, then lost in the evening, sweet! Full immersion
I watched the “cliff notes” edition then the season premiere. Must say reading here really helped me to “connect the dots” and see the hidden nuances of the show from your comments!
Thanks, I will be back now that I’m a fan too! Hopefully more to contribute next time
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:31 am
The voice that came out of Sayid was that of Desmond!!
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:43 am
Cat – “But John Fisher, where are your comments? I always look forward to seeming them the day after along with Connie, Paintergirl etc.”
Thanks, Cat. I’m still trying to digest these two episodes. I’ll rewatch both tonight with my wife who has to go to bed at 9:00 p.m. to get up at 5:00 a.m.
The biggest question for me is “why the parallel universe?” By that I don’t mean why does it exist. It exists because of what Juliet did which caused a new branch in time to spring forth at that moment in 1977. In that universe the island sank, hopefully slowly, since I’m hoping we see some of the Dharma folks in the new 2004 world, especially Ben.
Why are the writers/producers showing us this parallel universe? What are we to make of it other than it being either an interesting or for some folks boring distraction from the story on the island that we’re all most interested in. It has to serve some purpose in the overall series and we only have a scant number of episodes to learn what.
Will the folks in the parallel universe live happier lives? Will they live similar lives ending mostly in unhappiness? Will they somehow come to remember their island universe and use those experience and lessons learned to live more fulfilled lives? Will the two universes somehow come back together or will the folks in one of them die while the others live?
At this point, I just don’t know and I can’t even begin to guess.
My big questions from my first viewing:
1) where is the “home” for the smoke monster/Flocke/MIB that he wants to return to? How come Jacob was able to leave the island but his enemy seems confined to the island? If he is confined, who was the Christian that came to Jack in the hospital? Was that Jacob? Have both the Man in Black and Christian taken the forms of other people to advance their agenda?
2) how did Sayid come back to life? Is he still the same Sayid or different? Is it even Sayid at all?
3) who really is good and who really is evil or is there even a clear answer? I’m starting to suspect that Jacob is not all that good and the Man-in-Black/Smoke Monster not all that bad. He gave Bram a chance to just leave the statue’s interior. He only killed them when Bram shot at him. He kills after judging people (most of the time.) On the other hand, Jacob’s minions aka the Others killed many of the folks on Oceanic 815 in cold blood and for no obvious reason. His people are not all that good when you think about it.
4) has Sawyer now totally lost all of the humanity he had gained before Juliet’s death. Will he now be so overcome with anger that nothing can save him?
5) are we to believe that Richard has never seen the smoke monster in all of the years since he first met the Man in Black when he, Richard, was in chains?
6) were there really 2 smoke monsters all along – one the Man in Black, the other Jacob?
I think I enjoyed the two episodes. I’m just not that sure yet.
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:50 am
@Nels: Mikhail was russian and didn’t come from “a different time period”
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:50 am
Hi Ryan & Jen! Overall I was pleased with the episode but had a few questions.
1- If the man in black was the smoke monster all along, and has been flying through the temple throughout all these seasons, why are the people of the temple afraid of him now?? Is it because Jacob was protecting them from him this whole time?
2- Why have Juliet survive that crazy explosion if she was going to die anyways? Do Damon & Carlton enjoy making us suffer??
3- Does Desmond remember what happened before the bomb, being that the rules don’t apply to him?? And where did he go after Jack came back from the bathroom??
I think Richard being in chains was a reference to him being a slave of Jacob. The man in black broke the chains of his servitude when he had Jacob killed. Can’t wait to see what happens next!!
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:55 am
I’ve seen a lot of people on other lost sites complaining about the cgi in the underwater scene. I say, who cares? I’d rather they not waste a ton of time and money on a 20 second scene. That time and money is better spent on important stuff.
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:09 pm
WHAT HAPPEN TO SHANON ON THE AIRPLANE, SHE SHOULD OF BEEN ON THE PLANE WITH HER BROTHER. AND DESMOND DON’T GET ME STARTED, HE SHOULD OF NEVER BEEN ON THE PLANE. I SIMPLE LOVE/HATE THIS SHOW. CAN’T WAIT TELL NEXT WEEK!
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:11 pm
I always wished that we would hear more from Donovan’s discussion with his student / colleague ( He’s the other physicist that Desmond goes to in to a in “Flashes Before Eyes” ) before he was found by Desmond:
DONOVAN: Your thesis is a bit neat. The wild card part which is unpredictability — run the same test 10 times — you’ll 10 different outcomes. It’s what makes life so wonderfully…
DESMOND: [entering] Donovan!
DONOVAN: Case in point, who could have known that a drenched Scotsman would appear in this rotunda?
Desmond knows this physicist Donovan but his background did not suggest wealth / scientific study / college / etc. …I wonder if Donovan knew Faraday? I wonder if they were playing their own games with Des.?
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Could it be that these aren’t really different time lines? Oceanic 815 is not the same as it was the first time, after all. Desmond? No Shannon (who did she not break up with, anyway?)? No Walt and Michael? No Eko? Sun and Jin not being married? When you start to count them up, there are so very many differences.
Oy.
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:34 pm
@Yann – Desmond is wearing a gold ring on his ring finger, though I can’t tell if it is a wedding ring or not. It is only show for a second when he gets up to let Jack in to sit down. Is there a screen shot on Dark UFO?
@Nuckinfuts – good catch on the Donovan comment.
That is why I wondering about the cloth found in the cabin by Alana, if it is the same one cut from fake locke after Jacob died. That would mean that it already had happened before.
I think I should stop trying to come up with theories so early, this could all change next week.
When fake locke was talking about Locke’s sad life and what he was thinking when he was dying, made me so sad, Locke was so earnest about making a difference and instead he got played by Fake Locke and Ben. At least in the flash sideways he seems happy.
February 3rd, 2010 at 12:42 pm
It’s so great to be back! I’m one to read all the comments before adding my own, so it took a while to get caught up
.
I loved the episode and especially the music. I felt like I was on a rollercoaster as the camera panned from the plane, through the clouds, and into the water. This was not because of the CGI, but because of the awesome percussion Michael Giacchino scored for this scene.
One point I haven’t heard mentioned yet: Was anyone else surprised that Jacob recommended that they enter the temple through the same hole where Montand lost his freakin’ arm? At least in the 80’s, smokey was able to enter this area. I don’t think the temple can be MiB’s home for this reason. I also felt that Rousseau’s team’s sickness came from entering this hole, and it was actually “smokey” calling to the team using Montand’s voice. How do we reconcile these two uses of the temple entrance?
I agree that Juliette must have had a glimpse at the LA X reality when she commented that they should go dutch for coffee. It reminded me of “I can’t have chocolate before supper” from Charlotte. I have a feeling we’ll hear about Juliette’s coffee later this season. That would explain why “it worked.”
I worry with the juxtaposition of Locke’s dead body to Sayid’s before his resurrection that they’ll try to somehow revive the real Locke. As much as I loved this character, I feel he’s done. I sort of like “Dead is Dead” and “Whatever Happened, Happened.” I guess those concepts are suffering a bit at this point.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Isn’t “New Otherton” just Dharmaville after Dharma left?
I figure the island sank when the bomb went off.
Which means all the influences of the island disappear from that point forward.
Michael probably died in the car accident, so who knows what happened to Walt.
Not enough information yet… can’t wait until the next episode!
I hope they answer: Why does smokey sound like clanking gears when he gets mad?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:16 pm
@Nuckin
Love the notice of Donovan’s conversation especially as it relates to the macrocosm of what’s going on. Jacob’s design has created a separate timeline to produce another outcome or else the spring of life would cease and that would be the end of us.
In quantam mechanics, every possible outcome exists at the same time as I understand it. What we measure is really only the probablility of a single outcome. I’ll have to delve back into a brief history of time or Kaku’s “Physics of the Impossible” (a good choice on audible.com if they carry it.) to see what might happen if alternate universes meet.
@ Carol. Loved the cloth idead, but it would mean it would have to be carried back in time to the cabin to be placed there so it could be found by Jacob’s praetorian guard. (Ilana, Bram, & co.)
Put me down as decidedly against Sayid as a reincarnated Jacob. For one thing, this theory comes from the belief that MIB has possessed bodies to achieve his incarnations. I don’t think this is the case. In the most obvious example, Locke’s actual body is lying on the beach. Also, Ben underwent the same ordeal and he seems to represent only himself, a man with a choice of whether or not to kill the one who watches over us all.
Come to think of it though, is it not Locke’s lifeless body that at this very moment literally rests in the shadow of the statue?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Interesting that Jacob told them to bring Sayid to the temple instead of Juliet. It looked like the Others had to actually kill Sayid first before he could be reincarnated with Jacob’s soul. Why couldn’t they just try to give medical help to Sayid and resurrect Jacob in Juliet’s already dead body? Seems kind of heartless to kill Sayid just to use his body.
Regardless, it was a great episode. Need to watch it over to get full appreciation.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:29 pm
I just thought of this. Jacob told Hurley to tell Jin to take them to where there’s a hole in the wall of the temple where he was with the French team. How did Jacob know about that incident unless he was there. Maybe he was the one that tore the arm off the Frenchman. I am really starting to suspect that Jacob is not nearly as good as we may think.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:44 pm
@John Fischer re:”I am really starting to suspect that Jacob is not nearly as good as we may think.”
I COMPLETELY agree!!!
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:46 pm
Jacob is Jacob of Israel, and the MIB is his brother Esau. Here’s why:
In “Room 23″ when Ben was trying to brainwash Carl, the TV said “God loves you as he love Jacob.” This is a reference to the book of Malachi in the Old Testament. Malachi ch. 1 verse 2-3 (God speaking): “I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.”
Boom. Done.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:49 pm
AJ is the villain of the piece, the Cobra alluded to in Hurley’s Expose comment or the force referenced by Charlie singing “He’s Evil.” (waaay back for that one.) AJ wanted to kill Jacob and dispose of humanity from the first moment we saw him. He only refrains from killing because that better serves his plan to end the grand experiment all at once.
We know Smokey has killed and Smokey=Flocke so he’s perfectly capable if need be. He just doesn’t want to reveal himself lest that awareness lead to a loophole of his own.
Ah! It just occurred to me that the word loophole may have some extra significance. I was just thinking of it in the most cliche terms, but perhaps the literal looping of time has opened a hole in the magic box.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:02 pm
I believe all our losties who are now on the plane in the flash have had the island experience… i also believe that little by little they will encounter things which will trigger their memories of the island Desmond Style as in “Flashes before your eyes”.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:36 pm
@Tom W like that wikipedia input
@Faraway J – Princess Bride is one of my top 5 movies ever
@ Russell in Ca – like the LA-X idea a lot
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:42 pm
@Ryan and Jen- new Header for your website “The Transmission, as seen on Nightline” Congratulations!
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Anyone notice that the scratch on Jack’s neck is in the same place as Faraday’s Dharma shootout wound? Probably just a coincidence.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Was sound as bad as it was here ? We kept missing a few replies distinctlively
Here are a few things picked up from the HD ultra slowmo replay
Desmond do is wearing a ring in his left hand
In addition, he is reading a Salman Rushdie book (title not visible)
Revive Said’s voice was similar to his usual voice and accent, only that scrappy and mushy voice of someone waking up…
I havent time to compare the seating in 815 to episode 1
but is seems obvious that it is not similar
although Rose do is sitting next to Jack
Could it be that the consequences of these differences (no coffin) refer to the differences between A316 and O815 ? Hence the variability of results…
Questions
Why is False Locke so deliberately take care of wiping Jacob’s blood with a torn Jacob cloth instead of on his own clothes ?
Anyone noticed the Kate eye-opeing scene ? Any special meaning, since it was Jack’s eye we have been seeing open after an explosion ?
Anyone noticed the moss (or seeweed) grown on the base of the statue foot ?
It obviously had been under water for a while…
Predictions now
Maybe Kate will wind up with Aaron anyway (after becoming friend with Claire)
The Lax Losties are in 2004
They have 3 years to reach the Island in 2007
Why wont they board A316 again ? and have a different scenario play out… because of different flight content (like Locke not being dead)
Locke not being dead would result in forcing MIB having to choose another body…
Somehow we can see stories play out
like Jack fix Locke Hurley being conned by Sawyer
and dont forget that there should be plenty of people looking for our Losties in 2004 like Bram and Ilana & Heloise and Widmore
Cant wait to hear the posdcast
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:49 pm
STOP SAYING SAYID isn’t SAYID!!
YES HE IS!!!
YES HE IS!!!!!
::rips shirt::
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:06 pm
I don’t think the John Locke on Oceanic 815 is lying about going on a walkabout. There are already several differences between what we saw in LA X and the Pilot, so why not that? The flash-sideways Locke is not the depressed, “don’t tell me what I can’t do” version, but a relatively peaceful guy doing the best he can with the unfortunate hand he was dealt. This is further displayed by the way he is able to comfort Jack about his father’s missing body. It will be very interesting to see if Locke calls Jack for that consult.
On another note, I also think the spring in the temple is somehow tied to Jacob. The water looked almost red when we first see it, perhaps symbolizing Jacob’s death. What is so significant about water when it comes to Jacob and Man in Black/Smokey? In season 5, we saw Ben pull the plug on an ancient drain in his basement to summon the smoke monster. Is this a coincidence?
Ryan & Jen – thanks for all your hard work, can’t wait to hear your thoughts throughout the season.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:29 pm
@everyone who wants to compare the original flight of 815 to the current one. This is a great you tube video of the original crash in real time, it has everything that is happening on flight and on the island. It’s really great, the detail is amazing, he uses split screens. So watch that and then rewatch last night’s flight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKcKtjrL5bc
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Hmmmmm. Loved it!!!!!!
Comments
I think that the underwater scene was so fake-looking and stupid. It was worse than the fake submarine.
Anyone remember around Season 2 when some of the Losties are hiding in the bushes and they see a group of bare, dirty feet walking by? I think that it was the “Other ‘Others’ ” if that makes any sense. I really don’t get those people behind the temple.
So many questions have been answered – to some extent – in this premiere. We now know the purpose of Ilana and her groupies, the ring of ash (Did y’all notice someone sprinkling ash around the real temple once they had heard that Jacob was dead?), what or who Smokey is, where Zach and Emma went, what the temple is, why Richard brought Ben there. Again, these questions are only half answered. There’s still so much reasoning to why they have happened for us to truly understand them. (Okay, rambling muchhh?)
I was soo disapointed to Desmond on that plane. I’m sorry.
I can’t help but feel cheated that there’s two alternate timelines. Like, its WAAAYY TOO LATEE for them to be having something that important when theres WAAAYY TOO MANNNY other questions to be answered. I ended up loving the episode, but I think that it’s still a little too out there.
Uhhhggg, I hate being patient.
Soory, Knives Monroe, but I think Sayid IS Jacob, or at least not himself, which sucks cuz I loved his character. Also, did y’all notice the Season Six Promo Poster, based on the Last Supper? Sayid is in the Judas spot. Also, under the table is a skull. Hmmmm. I definately think these are important.
It sucks that Juliet is dead. I really hate Jack and Kate. They’re such losers, they belong together.
So what Juliet said when she died, like something about meeting someone for coffee or whatever, and then IT WORKED?? Hmmm. I think that she and Sawyer will meet up in an alternate timeline. They better.
I also strongly believe that Claire and Kate will get to be friends, and then she’ll give “Goober” to Kate so they can continue pressing buttons in elevators together.
I’m very interested in Richard now. CHAINS?? (I’m thinking Blackrock, darlings.)
Gosh, smokey is a real *****.
I think that: The reason Widmore was banished was because he found out about the “Magical Fountain”, so now he wants to find it again.
And what about the rules he and Ben had, ehh?
Anyone remember the Hurley Bird? Will we find out what that is ever???)
And what about Christian n’ Claire?
What happened to Rose n’ Bernie when the bomb exploded?
Jin and Sun are in the same time period now. REUNITE ALREADYYY!!
Magic Box?
Skeletonzzzz???
Anyone remeber those dolls Jack found in the pond/water fall thing near the caves in season 1?
That white tennis shoe perched percariously on a bush waaaay back in the good ole’ Pilot?
EEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPP!!! Okay, i went a little crazy. Just had to get it outa my system.
So many questions, so little time. ta ta for now.
- the girl from tallahasee
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:10 pm
I really liked that they had Greg Grunberg as the voice of the pilot of Flight 815. It was a nice touch to keep the same actor, even though he wasn’t seen. For another Heroes connection, the cab driver taking Kate and Claire away from the airport was David H Lawrence XVII, who plays Doyle, the puppetmaster.
I really enjoyed the episode and am looking forward to the rest of the season. It looks as though we will be getting a ton of both character and mythology. Good times had by all!
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:17 pm
I changed my mind. Sayid is Sayid, NOT JACOB. I replayed it with earphones in and the volume very loud. It is definitely his voice, just groggy from being out so long.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:47 pm
For those who missed the interview of Carlton and Damon in the Jimmy Kimmel Live show after the SEason 6 premiere, here’s this:
http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEu4VwxBXW72yu
I really hope this clarifies a few things for many of you, such as Sayid not being Jacob.
BTW, I believe that Sayid did die (dead is dead, right?). And whatever or whoever is now using his body, it is NOT Jacob.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:47 pm
@ Amber from Utah
Right? I feel the same way!!!
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:59 pm
One more thought and a question. When we switched from one timeline or reality to the other the distinctive rumbling sound was quite different. Normally we hear either a crescendo when we have a flashback or flashforward. This was distinctly different, not a straight crescendo or decrescendo but more like an uneven wave of crescendo and decrescendos.
This sound isn’t an accident and I think we are being told something about how we are flashing. Clearly this is more sideways from one timeline to another. I thought it was a very nice touch.
My related question is about what we’ve heard in seasons past. Did we here a crescendo when flashing back then a decrescendo when jumping back to the present. Assuming we did have this sonic mirror image, then was this presented to us as a clue during the first flash forward at the end of season 3. In other words does a crescendo always mean forward and a decrescendo always mean backwards? I’ll have to break out the DVDs and see if this holds any water.
If it does, does the sound we are hearing now tell us anything beyond the somewhat obvious that this is neither a flashback nor a flashfoward.
Thanks for the podcast.
Ernie
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Just in case anyone wants to see the Nightline segment, it’s available in the US on Hulu.com under ABC Nightline.
I recommend watching it. Aside from seeing Ryan & Jen’s shoutout, you see some nice behind the scenes footage.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:42 pm
Wait, how did Richard see the signal if the signal came from the 70s? WTF? somone please answer this!!!!!!
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:44 pm
What timeline were the temple Others in before Juliet exploded Jughead? Because we see Cindy and the kids, I have to assume that they were with the 2007 timeline, but where were they in 1977? With Widmore’s group in the jungle? How did they get from the book-club, muffin-eating Others led by Ben living in the Barracks in 2004 to the no-nonsense guardians of the sacred temple? Or is this a totally separate group? Were they part of the purge? Were they completely incognito on the Island so that no one knew they were there? The seem to materialize out of nowhere.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Thoughts..
When Jacob died, his spirit went into the spring which colored it dark.. as Sayid was drowning, he gulped in water, which was Jacob’s spirt
Ben and Locke are half-brothers. Look back and follow the path of their “common” mother
Ben and Jacob are working together, with the goal of destroying MIB. Ben is conning MIB and everyone else with a superb acting job.. like he did when he first met the Losties. Except.. he was actually smarter than we thought. He was supposed to kill Jacob.. in order to advance Jacob’s strategy of destroying MIB.
The two time-lines will merge into something that is part of each.. the Island experience will seem like a real dream after they land in LAX
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:28 pm
Anyone else notice that the sideways flash seems that most of the people are worse off than the people in on the island? Kate is running from the police, Claire is a hostage, Charlie is in jail (and sad), Locke is locke, Jack seems lost still. Only person that seems better off is Sayid, but hes just came back from the dead, so who knows.
Also when juliet says “it worked” is she now off the island and living in the sideways flash? And it worked meaning she’s off the island, or perhaps she just means that shes dead and when you die, you get off the island?
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:28 pm
Hello all, first post, but long time listener.
Great episode, loved the direction they took with the story lines. I think they were brillant to have the two timelines… I think that instead of diminishing the characters it is giving us, the audience, a better opportunity for character development, whether it is redemtion, free will or destiny. I think that by having the audience be more aware of the history of these characters that the characters themselves, it affords the writers a great opportunity for storytelling. Bottom line is a still care deeply for these characters and am very interested in what will be happening to them in either time line.
Here are a few observations :
* I loved ascertive Hugo;
* Was Juliet time tripping a la Desmond when asking to go for coffee with Sawyer? Will it happen in the future or ALT time line?
* Jacob seemed really distrubed, shocked, derailed by Sayid’s condition when he first sees him. He had not forseen that.
*At the airport when Jin gets taken away and the female guard asks Sun if she knows any English… she addresses her as Miss Paik. Does that mean that Sun and Jin are NOT married in this time line. So, she may very well be telling the truth about not knowing any English.
*It will be interesting to learn more about Flocke/MIB and Smokey. Chronologically speaking, first he was the MIB, we then see Smokey appearing around the Island and finally we learn that Flocke = MIB = Smokey. Ben told us that he knew how to summon Smokey but could not control it. Like the Temple, the Barracks needed to protect or keep Smokey out. Is no one on Smokey’s side? Was Jacob keeping MIB/Flocke against his will?
Ahhhhh, so many possibilities for great storytelling, and I have absolute confidence that Damon and Carlton will give us a great ride to the finish.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:35 pm
@ Jesse
I believe that when the bomb went off, Jin says that they time traveled, we can assume that everyone is now in 2007.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:38 pm
@ Ernie
Great thought on the various sounds and what they attempt to convey. I wish I had more of a natural ear for that aspect of communication which definitely exists. Even beyond the musical framing, I’ve often thought there was an undercurrent of white noise intruding from the reality of which we remain unaware. The ringing in Kate’s ears suggests that they may at last be “waking up” to this. And it’s also worth remembering that sonic waves work just as well as the ring of ash in keeping smokey at bay.
The pan-cultural nature of the island expanded greatly in this episode. Far eastern influences were apparent from the bonsai-working sensei to the seemingly authentic, ancient Chinese bamboo fireworks. But the inner temple itself seemed configured like a central American pyramid or ziggurat. Add to this the Egyptian colossus and hieroglyphics, the Angkor Wat exterior of the temple, Jacob’s Greek patterns, etc and you get the idea that the island was the source of all culture that broke apart and scattered into the larger world. The island is Atlantis!
A few of my favorite Lost-isms could be found in this episode.
“Open the door”
“Wake up”
“Not yet”
I think “open the door” will prove especially meaningful in the end game of Lost. I somehow think it will be part of the survivors’ exit to salvation. Sawyer suggested that confinement on this rock (synonym for the famous prison) was punishment enough for Jack. And who really has been trying to bring them all back and keep them there? AJ has. AJ was the one who had Richard convince John as he skipped through time that he had to bring them all back. What was the one thing AJ admired about Locke? That he realized how pathetic his life in the outside world was and accepted his fate on the island. Jacob wants them to carry some knowledge or growth away from the island and change one of the core variables. AJ wants to confine them there so that it can all be brought to an end.
Finally, smokey is reticent to kill, but will if necessary. Why Eko and not Ben or Locke? It all seems to boil down to who is “amenable for coercion.”
Defend the island.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:42 pm
I thought this premiere was outstanding, particularly the first episode. Where season five felt uneven (albeit exhilarating) at times, with characters serving the plot and poor pacing, the premiere completely nailed it. Three compelling, mind-bending storylines brilliantly executed. I was really impressed.
I have some comments that haven’t been covered above (there’s no point repeating the well-made points or questions made by others above). I noticed in my season 5 finale rewatch that Smokey/MiB actually does kill Jacob. He’s not dead when Ben stabs him. Dying, sure, but not dead. He dies when MiB kicks him into the fire. Thus MiB does kill Jacob, which seems against the ‘rules’. My guess is that this is an oversight in the construction of that scene but considering the importance of the ‘no killing Jacob’ rule, it seems a bit careless.
Smokey seems to have rules of who and how he can kill. If he didn’t, you’d imagine that he would kill everyone on the beach now that Jacob is dead. We’ve already observed that he seems to be able to kill so-called ‘bad’ people. You could also argue that he can kill people who try to kill him (e.g. Bram and co). This explains Richard’s desperate cry to not shoot MiB when he emerges from the foot as Locke.
My feeling is that the temple is MiB’s home. The hole in the wall is not the temple per se, which is why Smokey can be in there when the French team arrive. Perhaps he spends time in that hole because he longs to return home so he spends a lot of time outside its perimeter. Why is Jacob keeping him from the temple? Perhaps because MiB will use its powers for ‘evil’. Perhaps because Jacob is just being a jerk (okay, that might be unlikely).
Has Ben ever been to the temple (apart from his boyhood trip)? Does he know about those Others? My wife and I felt that these Others were perhaps other Others that Ben doesn’t even know about. This is hard to reconcile because we saw Kimberley Joseph’s character (the airline hostess) after her kidnap when Sawyer and Kate were in the bear cages. But these others seem to have an existence independent of the Otherville Others (and presumably their predecessors through Widmore and Eloise). Richard might thus work with both groups on behalf of Jacob. It’s also highly likely (perhaps even obvious) that the temple Others are Black Rockers with immortality like Richard.
Finally, here’s my out-there prediction that will make me seem amazing if accurate but easily forgotten amongst these hundreds of comments if incorrect. Desmond will be on the Black Rock, perhaps as captain. I don’t understand this prediction or why I’m even making it. There’s just something about his specialness, his Britishness, his military background, his sailing prowess and his hair that makes me think that if they wanted to blow our minds when they get round to explaining the Black Rock, having one of our characters on it is a sure way to do that.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:48 pm
My comment is about Christian and what side he is really on. Christian has said he is there( to Locke) for jacob. Whenever we have seen Christian with Locke it was creepy. Wasn’t Christian the one who told Locke he had to die to save the island? Or at least refered to it when Locke turned the wheel. Isn’t it probable that christian is with the dark one who needed Locke to die as part of his plan? Since the dark one is also the smoke monster, which conjured up dead Alex, maybe he is also Christian? Either way I am convinced that Christian is not with Jacob or on his side. When we saw christian in the cabin it was creepy and he was there with creepy Claire. All scenes in the. Abin seed more dark than light even though it was Jacobs cabin. When Alana and her team got to the cabin the ring of ash was broken and once inside she said jacob had not been using the cabin for a long time. We don’t know how long and it did show someone in season 4 stepping over a line in the ground to get to the cabin. I’m wondering if Locke and hurleus experiences at the cabin were really with team dark side ( unlocke) instead of jacob. That is also why I think christan is NOT team Jacob. What do you think? Thanks for your incredible podcast it is so fun!
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:50 pm
@Connie
We know Alpert didn’t skip through time and that all the others vanished right after Ben turned the frozen donkey wheel leaving Locke isolated. Perhaps it’s a function of the baptism by drowning or the vaccines, but they stayed constant while our primary characters moved.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:55 pm
@ Stephen in Bathurst
You do not disappoint. My mind is blown by the possibility of Desmond on the Black Rock. He’s already appeared in a place he’s not supposed to be.
February 3rd, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Don’t know if anyone else noticted, but in the flash-sideways Sun and Jin are not married. Neither one have wedding rings and the customs lady calls Sun Ms. Paik. Don’t know what’s going on but I really liked this episode and the direction the show is going. I think somehow the two universes will come together at the end or something. Who knows? I’ll just have to wait
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:05 pm
So the man in black say’s to Ben I’m gonna get off this island now that Jacob’s dead. In the alternate time line at LA X John Locke (GOOD-OR MAN IN BLACK) Talks to Jack about his spinal injury and Jack tells him nothing is impossible you may be able to be fixed. What if that is really the man in black and that’s is loop hole off the Island. It is a alternate universe and John Locke is really dead anyway. Imean it’s not that far out to me. And it would make thing’s all that much more twisted because Jack help’s him walk again. Kinnda uses him like Ben used him to remove the tumor. Jack would be the Jack ass yet again….
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:10 pm
doesn’t anyone think about that
if sayid is jacob
that there would be two physical entities of sayid bodies?
when the man in black took john lockes form
there were 2 bodies, the man in black’s/dead locke
so if sawyer is jacob then why would he wake up IN sayid’s body and not appear in another form outside of his body?
just thought that was interesting
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:23 pm
appeared in a place he’s not supposed to be ?
like Walt
Walt is part of the loophole.
February 3rd, 2010 at 11:30 pm
jesse Says:— Wait, how did Richard see the signal if the signal came from the 70s? WTF? somone please answer this!!!!!!
The Losties appeared at the hatch that Desmond and Locke had blown up. Not the 70’s construction site but the old blown up hatch years later in 2007. That was kinda important and established very early in the episode.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:49 am
LOL we really go out of our ways to find incredible theories! Well… they really are incredible! lol At least it is fun.
I saw two great “change” in the “atomic bomb saved the world” reality (not including Desmond wearing a ring that is hidden purposely by a book :p ):
-Sawyer learns that Hugo won the lottery and his first reaction is: “be careful when you say you won the lottery people could take adventage” I thought we would see him do something to Hugo later and yet when Kate’s run to cabs we see that Hugo is alone without problem… Would it mean that Sawyer is now a good person? Altruistic? Helping his neighbour?
-Jack and Locke together! And how the man of faith can confort Jack soul and how the man of science (quite confident of himself (nothing is irrevercible… to me!)) can confort John’s body. I hope we see a developpement to that!!! (and I don’t know why but I bet it will be quite late in the serie)
February 4th, 2010 at 12:56 am
Okay, watched the episodes last night and after a nights sleep i’m starting to digest it all. I’m just going to write a brain dump of my opinions regarding the episodes. Apologies in advance for the length.
That ep gave us a lot to think about, quite a lot of curtain drawing back, but not much Wizard of Oz behind it.
The first big reveal is that there’s a new timeline in which 815 doesn’t crash, and obviously events differ as soon as it passes the “crash moment”. But there are a couple of noticeable differences that set it apart from OUR 815.
The first being the fact that Desmond is on the plane.
The second, unless i’m going insane, is that Hurley is happy and believes himself to be the luckiest man in the world. I’m pretty sure he’s just coming back from being knocked back by the wife of the guy who gave him the numbers. Not giving him the sympathetic ear, the understand, that we know he wanted. Plus, I’m guessing someone who says that nothing ever bad happens to them wouldn’t have that mindset if their mansion had burned down, or their chicken franchise had been hit by a meteor. So I’m guessing those things haven’t happened in this timeline. But it’s understandable that things relating to the numbers might change if the timeline has changed.. We’ll get to that later.
Anyway, the next reveal we have is that in the divergent timeline we see that the island is underwater, which would’ve really got the Atlantis-theorists going giddy if it wasn’t for the inclusion of the Dharma huts, and the Dharma branded shark. Which means that the island submerged at some point after the 70’s, fairly congruent with the idea of a hydrogen bomb going off in 70’s…
Then we see that OUR losties are still on the island, but have moved back to the “present”. The hatch is back, albeit destroyed.
We get Sawyers “IT HASNT WORKED” hissyfit, then Juliets posthumous “oh but it has” rebuttal.
In my opinion, she’s right:
The point of the hydrogen bomb was to disperse the electromagnetic energy and change the past in such a way that it couldn’t course correct. If the electromagnetic energy is dispersed, the hatch doesn’t need to be built, Desmond can’t be there pushing the button, so he won’t fail, and 815 won’t crash.
They’ve basically committed a grandfather paradox by going back in time and stopping themselves crashing.
Grandfather paradoxes are exactly that, paradoxes, they can’t exist in a simple way, you can’t go back and change your own past.
So how does the universe cope with the idea that the person who’s changing reality won’t exist?
It forks.
So the losties HAVE to still exist, in their own timeline, because otherwise our new losties couldn’t land at LAX.
I still don’t really know why the island would end up underwater, but maybe that’s just what would happen after a subterranean h-bomb detonation.
Okay, to progress:
Hurley DOES see dead people, fair enough, no idea why, but we also have no idea why miles can hear them, it’s just something that seems to have happened.
One of my theories is solidified, you see Montands body in the temple, but not the bodies of the other French people. I was initially convinced they were dead and possessed, but that was before we learned that smokey doesn’t need to possess the corpses, he just takes their visage.
So, if he had been doing that, they wouldn’t have had bodies when Danielle killed them. So perhaps they WERE still humans, just… converted somehow. There seems to be some “truth” that converts/recruits people to the cause, we meet the stewardess from the plane again in the temple. She doesn’t seem bothered at all by Jack and co turning up, she acts as if they’re from another life or something: “oh, they were on the plane with me”, as if she doesn’t think of herself as one of them anymore (which she may not be).
The whole water resurrection thing I can’t interpret yet, the “water of life”, “fountain of youth” idea has been floated before, to explain Richards immortality, but i’m not sure what i think about that.
I imagine that Sayid coming back to life of his own accord is either because of “course correction” or (my preferred explanation) because of Jacob touching him in the past. We’ve been shown Jacob touching certain people in their past, and we were shown a scene that very much appeared to be Jacob resurrecting Locke (after being thrown out of a building) by touching him on the shoulder.
We’ve also, going way back to the beginning, seen proof that fake-locke IS Smokey – “i’m sorry you had to see me like that”. We’ve also seen proof that the ashes protect against smokey (so the cabin encirclement was either to keep him out, or keep him in). We’ve seen that smokey killed those people without judging them – his normal modus operandi. Perhaps because they were “soldiers” or followers of jacob, he didn’t need to judge their free will. We also saw that shooting him didn’t seem to have an effect, he was fine when he reappeared, so we need to wonder here why jacob died. Was it because he was killed by someone who did so out of pure free will (Ben), or was it because he was in his original body? I don’t really believe the latter.
Okay, to proceed. His exchange with Richard is FASCINATING. “Nice to see you out of those chains”. My original Richard theory, way back, was that he was a slave from Egypt, being carried on the Black Rock. Richard being “in chains” is fairly congruent with that notion. I’m not talking ancient Egypt, just that Egypt was (if i understand correctly) used a lot in the slave trade, and he particularly looks like he could pass for Egyptian in a pinch.
We know that the man in black was wandering around when the Black Rock arrived, so if the last time he saw Richard was when Richard was in chains, it must’ve been after that point. So I assume richard was on that ship. But after that, some event must have occurred that either took the man in black out of the loop (imprisoning him perhaps), or forcing him to remain in smoke form (where he can’t exactly interact with people).
Either way, this is the first conversation he’s had with Richard in a long time (at least 50 years), which is troubling. Richard hasn’t been hiding, and we know the smoke monster was wandering around in the 70s. Like i said, troubling.
We also get to see that there’s definitely a conflict of sorts between the temple-others, and the man in black. They have counter measures (the firework alert, and the ashes) ready to go. So why does Jacobs death suddenly mean that they’re a target? Was Jacob protecting them? hiding them? Or did the RULES of the conflict forbid the man in black from hurting Jacobs followers. Rules which are made irrelevant after jacob dies. We know that the others made a truce with Dharma, perhaps that isn’t the first truce they’ve been involved in…
I think I’ve covered everything save for the events in the divergent timeline – which i don’t think are important yet.
I also haven’t mentioned my utter frustration at Sawyer for not taking Juliets body to the temple.
Really looking forward to reading other people’s theories. Again – apologies for the length of this!
Thanks all
Aaron in Scotland
February 4th, 2010 at 1:09 am
@ Aaron, epic post.
February 4th, 2010 at 1:28 am
Are we going to reach 300post? Have you all read all of them!?
February 4th, 2010 at 2:07 am
Nice post Aaron, with lots of good points. I’d like to pick up on your point about why Jacob died because it’s a good one. As you noted, MiB was shot and he lived to fight and smoke another day. Jacob was only stabbed, yet he reacted as a person and started to die. It doesn’t seem to make sense. You suggest a couple of reasons (Ben’s free will and Jacob being in his original body) but neither seem satisfactory.
In fact, the question could simply be asked “why did he let Ben stab him?”. Ben himself asks this question too, and interestingly the MiB is a bit dismissive of Ben’s question, stating arrogantly than Jacob just knew he was beat. That just doesn’t ring true though because he could have run away to Richard or fought back or something. He also could have not antagonised Ben with his own dismissive “What about you?”.
So here’s a theory (and don’t we just need another one). I think Jacob wanted to be killed. I think he wants to end his centuries long struggle with MiB, and I think he is using MiB’s search for a loophole to somehow trap and destroy him. The struggle ends when they are both dead. Jacob dies now and the plan he laid out is enacted to defeat MiB.
Which leads us back to Ben. Jacob needed Ben to kill him as part of the plan, which is why Jacob didn’t resist. And Ben, for his part, might be playing everyone, including the MiB. We already know he lies and manipulates. Jacob may have come to him with the plan to kill him. This doesn’t necessarily mean that all of Ben’s reactions (such as seeing Locke alive) have been faked. Perhaps he wasn’t told all the details. Maybe he was just told to kill Jacob at a particular moment. I see possible redemption for Ben by the series end.
February 4th, 2010 at 2:10 am
I LOVED LOVED LOVED this season opener! It far exceeded my hopes.
A few comments:
I love the dual-reality/parallel universe storyline. I feel like we’re getting twice the story for our money here! Like most people, I figured we would get only one of the two apparently possible outcomes to the detonation. And what an awesome surprise — without having to watch any extra commercials, we get to see BOTH stories! It couldn’t get any better, in my mind. And oh the fun we now get to have of trying to guess how the two threads will intersect!
The biggest questions in my mind after watching:
-Speaking of parallel realities… We’ve already had a very specific example of what that might look like — DESMOND, and his dual-existence in two realities! I bet you that that is the direction they will take this. The Losties will all begin to exist in both realities! Little by little, increasingly, the two realities will intersect, and they will each be aware of the other, just like Desmond was.
-Can’t help but wonder if it is possible that Jacob has been orchestrating everything, including his own death? Also, is there any chance that Ben is actually following along with Jacob’s plan in all this?
-Was the ash circle around the Cabin keeping Nemesis/Esau IN?
Or OUT? Very important question. Also, when did the ash circle become broken (which would tell us a lot.)
-Do Jacob & Esau/Nemesis both have the capacity to appear as a smoke monster, and also inhabit others’ dead bodies? I’m starting to believe that the early Christian sightings were actually Jacob, helping Jack. And the later ones (beginning with Christian’s appearance to Claire and then to John in the cabin) are Esau/Nemesis — with the express intention of manipulating John to get a body so he could find his loophole.
But again, the question of when the ash was broken would give us a big clue about this.
-And of course, where the hell is “home” for Nemesis/Esau?
And a few thoughts:
I would bet that we’ll see Juliet in LA – X Alternareality — most likely having a coffee with Sawyer and offering to go Dutch.
This one is a little farther out, but: Will Jack heal John and somehow Locke will return to play a pivotal role in confronting Nemesis/Esau, thus earning his redemption in the process?
February 4th, 2010 at 2:36 am
Steven, I like your take on things. I think it’s clear that Jacob let himself be killed.
I theorise that Jacob has the same “smoke monster” ability that MiB does (and infact, i think he visited Locke in this guise early on, leading to Locke suggesting that he saw the heart of the island, and it was beautiful, white smoke?), i could have escaped, or killed Ben if he had wanted to.
Perhaps he allowed himself to die because he knew that he could be resurrected, or because he knew that time would loop again (if you subscribe to the time loop theory), or because he knew he could pass on the message to Hurley, and thought that was more important than living.
The alternative, perhaps, is that as you suggest – he just realised things were coming to their conclusion.
I see redemption for Ben myself, and have been saying since we first met Ben that i think he’s “the good guy” on some level. But i’m not sure about whether i think Ben is acting as a kind of… double agent for Jacob. I think his reaction was legitimate, i think he stabbed Jacob because in that moment he felt hatred, he was going through the same feelings of abandonment that he felt whenever his dad insulted or beat him. MiB set him up by appearing as Alex, pointing out that he had been a bad father to her, and then broke the camels back by pointing out that Jacob didn’t care about him, that he got cancer despite doing everything he could to protect the island.
I think Ben has become the tool, the ultimate Pawn in the bigger game, and i don’t see him picking up his role as puppet master again, i think finally he is “Lost” and although he may eventually end up back on top, he’s in for a rough ride.
February 4th, 2010 at 2:37 am
Oops, amusing mistake in that last post. “i could have escaped, or killed Ben if he had wanted to.” is supposed to be, of course “i think he could have escaped, or killed Ben if he had wanted to.”
February 4th, 2010 at 2:40 am
Desmond is the “Constant”; maybe that’s why he was on the plane?
Flight 316, Locke’s (MIB) return, Jacob’s death — what is the timeline? The Dharma village is dilapidated and abandoned, the survivor’s camp is all run-down. Should be years following the original story. 2007, 2010, Other?
February 4th, 2010 at 3:06 am
Ryan and Jen,
This blog has been such a great community of ideas. Have you considered writing a book after the season ends on how Web 2.0 has affected entertainment? Beyond the amazing writing, this show’s success comes partly from its timing in our technological world. Our ability to come together with theories, book reviews, art interpretations, etc. has enriched our viewing experience and pushed the writers to place each detail carefully.
Great job, and thanks for this site!
February 4th, 2010 at 5:10 am
My first crackpot theory of today:
“John Locke’s Last Thought” I think that either the Man in Black was lying about John’s last thought. Perhaps Miles or Hurley will have a conversation with him. Or the thing that John did not understand has some significance. We can only guess what he “did not undertand”. Did he not understand why Ben would kill him now that he had found out that he was successful? That actually isn’t all that sad. If that is the case, the real John Locke actually died knowing that his actions and his alone set in motion the events needed to get the Losties back to the island, which is what he believed was what the island (and by extension, the rest of the world) needed to stay safe. Or, uh, something like that.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:15 am
My other crack-pot theory (after re-watching Cabin Fever from Season 4 just after watching LA X), is that there is a third person, a woman, involved in the ancient times of Jacob and the man-in-black. Let’s assume that the image/persona of Christian Shepard was being used by the man-in-black. So, who was using the form of Claire (who, had been blown up in the house by then). It was the third person. The man-in-black’s mate. So, now you have a man and a woman going back to ancient times. Could we now have an explanation of who Adam and Eve are? Or we could explore the metaphor further…could Jacob be Adam, the new mystery woman be Eve and the man-in-black is The Serpent?
Narratively, I have no idea what the implications of this backstory and how it relates to the Losties and the overall threat to the real world and our existance. But I am on the edge of my seat to see how it plays out.
That’s my crack-pot theory, and I’m sticking to it.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:19 am
I forgot one thing to include about the comment by Bram or Ilana…
My other crack-pot theory (after re-watching Cabin Fever from Season 4 just after watching LA X), is that there is a third person, a woman, involved in the ancient times of Jacob and the man-in-black. Let’s remember that Bram or Ilana indicated that “someone else has been using the cabin.” Now let’s assume that the image/persona of Christian Shepard was being used by the man-in-black. So, who was using the form of Claire (who, had been blown up in the house by then). It was the third person. The man-in-black’s mate. So, now you have a man and a woman going back to ancient times. Could we now have an explanation of who Adam and Eve are? Or we could explore the metaphor further…could Jacob be Adam, the new mystery woman be Eve and the man-in-black is The Serpent?
Narratively, I have no idea what the implications of this backstory and how it relates to the Losties and the overall threat to the real world and our existance. But I am on the edge of my seat to see how it plays out.
That’s my crack-pot theory, and I’m sticking to it.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:40 am
Just want to say that I am very interested in the reason why MIB says “I am very disappointed with all of you” before he carries Richard away at the end of the episode. Any thoughts?
February 4th, 2010 at 5:50 am
@Steven: best theory around I think. The Island needed protection because it was the MIB prison with Jacob being is warden/educator trying to persuade him to change his view. But Jacob realized it was impossible so he decided that it should “end” once and for all. So he sacrificed himself knowing it will end for MIB by doing this. And since they live in a world ruled by the number we know it is a doomed world.
I know Rich will hate me but know the only thing that can happen with this world his “Destroy the Island”.
If my Desmond theory is right and during is third life he decided to marry Penny (because when he had a third chance he did not let it pass this time!) I can understand that he would have liked to visit flight 815 and some of his passagers (including Jack) just to check how they were doing… and since how close he was Charlie I am sure he is going to try to help him.
I would like to stress how HAPPY and smiling all the passagers were. I think the progress will have happen before the “end”. And we will see that they don’t have to fight, corrupt and destroy.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:51 am
Also, I saw that a lot of people were wondering about the LA X instead of LAX. This was posted on lostpedia [not by me - ha ha]
Earth X: The “X” in ‘LA X’ stands for an alternate reality. It is commonly used in comic books including Marvel Comics which have an alternate history/timeline called “Earth X”. (Books)
February 4th, 2010 at 5:54 am
@Jessica: I think we will understand when MIB starts to call himself “Jacob”. The real one, the real “great and magnificent man”. True leader of the others. False prophet time will soon get started.
February 4th, 2010 at 6:00 am
First I would like to say, thanks for the great Transmission Weekend Ryan and Jen! It was fantastic. Second, a big congrats for the shoutout on Nightline. Still suffering from a bit of jet-lag, I didn’t stay up that late but DVRd it so I could watch it yesterday.
Now a comment that I don’t think has been mentioned here yet…… At the Temple, when Cindy the flight attendant said she knew Jack & company, did anyone else happen to catch the fact that she said “They were on the FIRST plane, Oceanic 815 along with me”? I just re-watched that part of the episode and the word “FIRST” was definitely there. Anyone else think that this was significant?
Or maybe she was just differentiating between flight 815 and Ajira 316. With LOST anything is possible, but the word “FIRST” sure seemed to stand out to me.
Again, thanks for the wonderful premiere weekend activities in Hawaii Ryan & Jen. Your efforts along with Bruce & team are to be commended
February 4th, 2010 at 6:10 am
Just a footnote…the book that Desmond is reading on the plane is “Haroun and the Sea of Stories” by Salman Rushdie. Look it up and you will see the same cover. It is a children’s book written by the author of “The Satanic Verses”.
February 4th, 2010 at 6:12 am
@Yann – This is for you, screen shot of Desmond with wedding ring.
http://twitpic.com/119whz
February 4th, 2010 at 6:14 am
@LReene- great catch! I have so many things to look for when I rewatch it tomorrow.
@Jessica – I like your explanation of the title, makes a lot of sense.
February 4th, 2010 at 6:20 am
@LReene – I heard Cindy say First Plane too, but I just assumed that it was a reference to 815 and 316.
I don’t think I like the idea of the MiB being a prisoner while Jacob is his warden — I’ve always envisioned them as two sides to the same coin, equals with different philosophies.
February 4th, 2010 at 6:43 am
@Yann
No! The island is the navel of the world through which the creative force that permits life flows. We are the point of the experiment, to see how we will grow and what choices we will make, not MIB. Jacob says as much in his first conversation on the beach.
@Steven & Aaron
Jacob allowing himself to be killed is very reminiscent to me of the death of Obi Wan Kenobi in Star Wars. The teacher surrenders to death as part of the calling of a greater power and dies at the hand of his former pupil. This pupil goes over to the dark side, but is not beyond salvation. He eventually redeems himself by killing the tyrannical emperor. This would support my theory that only Ben, still the leader, can kill MIB.
Another film allusion I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere is the similarity of Lennon to the photojournalist who interprets for Kurtz in Apocalypse Now. Heart of Darkness (which Apocalypse adapts to the Vietnam War) and Kurtz have been mentioned several times on Lost.
February 4th, 2010 at 7:59 am
I love the cammeraderie and insights propelled on this site. Thank-you Ryan for posting the link for your (and Jen’s) moment on Nightline — very cool!! Yes, the “end-date” saved this show for the masses — I was on board regardless…
“Sliding Doors” also immediately came to my mind — good to see that mentioned — two alternate realities that eventually mesh…
Thank-you so much to Ryan and Jen for your weekly write-ups which help to clarify the madness, and thank-you to all you theorists who make me think deeper — I also particularly like Aaron’s (from Scotland) post
Love being L O S T (and found) — xxxooo
February 4th, 2010 at 9:09 am
Welcome back, Ryan & Jen! I cannot WAIT to hear your podcasts, once again.
I had honestly forgotten about Locke’s quip about wanting to go “home”. While watching the premiere with my friends, someone jokingly said, “Ha! What if he’s an alien?!” To which my immediate thoughts went to the most recent Indiana Jones film. I don’t think the writers would do THAT to us, but if they pulled the alien-card as LOST’s deus ex machina, I will kill them. Really.
I. WILL. KILL. THEM!
February 4th, 2010 at 9:13 am
@greenberry: Have fun on this blog (that’s the most important) feel free to send your theories and feelings about the episodes(we are sooo going to reach the 400s)!
I am sure we will find out eventually… But it is great to debate with you tho and I am sure we will find ways to do so even when this show will be over!
@Carol: THANK YOU!!!! IT IS SO A WEDDING RING!!! Third time’s the charm!
@LReene: Yes I thought also it meant the first plane (which was funny because they were on the second plane also) but maybe they are aware that a second course has happened… It will be very interesting to find out about that!
@Rich: I KNEW you would react!
But I would like to say again that the Island is still where the 4 8 15 16 23 42 hatch has been built and Darlton talked about the “Valenzetti Equation” just before the season6 (with the: “fans will get more irritating” commercial (and boy… were they right!)). Doom is apun the Island!
February 4th, 2010 at 9:18 am
@Jono: I so agree with you, it would reminds me of the South Park episode about Indiana Jones4. If you haven’t seen it you should now (if you get offended easily you shouldn’t tho). But I would have the same feeling as the children tho.
OK… I won’t have the podcast until this WE? I am going to watch the damn 1h40 a second time! And maybe a third tomorrow! I am such an addict…
February 4th, 2010 at 9:19 am
When Juliet says, “It worked” then dies… One’s life is said to flash before you as you die right? So it does work, her seeing it as she dies is now she knows. It just hasn’t happened yet.
And I think someone else mentioned it here before (sorry can’t remember who), but it will “end” as in the LA X timeline, with everyone being strangers to one another. Reason I say “end” is because this amazing story, will have no end!
Actually just occurred to me as I was about to post this, doesn’t the Wizard of Oz end in a similar fashion? Not with anyone dieing, but with Dorothy telling of her amazing story saying “You were there, and you, and you were there too, oh why doesn’t anyone believe me?!” Akin to Jack telling Desmond, “Don’t I know you from somewhere?” Answer?? Yes, but in another life, brotha!!!
February 4th, 2010 at 10:05 am
An alien storyline would not be a Deus Ex Machina. The groundwork was laid back in Season One with Walt/Hugo’s Comic Book. In addition to the image of a fierce polar bear, there was an image of a what appeared to be a green, large headed alien strapped to an examining table. So, if the show gets back to that…well, there you go.
February 4th, 2010 at 10:18 am
I had a really crazy thought after that whole scene with Jack and Locke at the airport baggage claim.
What if the reason Locke was able to walk again on the Island was because Jack had surgically fixed him in the alternative timeline. When the plane crashed, somehow Locke’s timelines got interchanged, and he became the Locke from the alternative timeline we’re seeing this season. Since that Locke’s paralysis had been healed, he was able to walk. Crazy, I know, but I thought I’d put that out there.
February 4th, 2010 at 10:22 am
Thinking of “The Rules,” did Ben expect Keamy’s bullet to bounce off Alex (in season 4) as Bram’s bullet did? Which reminds me of Michael being unable to kill himself — Tom asks if the gun jammed or if the bullet bounced off his skull. I hope they’re all linked, because this shows great planning by the writers.
February 4th, 2010 at 10:40 am
Haven’t yet read through all the comments, but I did a search on “tree” and found no one has yet posted…
At the very beginning of ep 601, as the white blast of the bomb fades to the clouds outside Jack’s airplane window, you can clearly see a tree, first through the mist, and then as a kind of reflection in the plane window. Is it Kate’s tree? Is it a way to show that the two after-Jughead realities are taking place at the same time?
I thought it was pretty cool but didn’t think it was that important until I saw Carlton Cuse’s tweet of 2/1:”DL and I are in editing looking at some POV shots of trees for a sequence we are editing. Trees are important on LOST.”
So what’s the importance of the reflected tree, except to say that we are looking at mirror images? (Followed by the mirror image of Jack in the airplane lav)
One more note before I finish reading above: what struck me about Charlie on the plane is the definitive, knowing way he said, “You shouldn’t have done that, man. I’m SUPPOSED to die.” That didn’t sound to me like someone who was invested in suicide so much as invested in doing something to fulfill a certain, dare I say it, destiny? As if he has some knowledge the others in this timeline don’t.
Okay, time to finish reading!
February 4th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Hi All,
Glad to contribute to the 300+ comments! I seems to me that the overarching theme of LOST (besides good/evil & black/white) seems to be being “FOUND” — it is now showing up in the promos (“Amazing Grace” & the Last Supper table)
My guess is that LOST will end by each of the original “Losties” realizing that they are more lost without the Island — that the island is their salvation and way of being “found.”
February 4th, 2010 at 11:00 am
@Jen in Chicago – That’s quite possibly the most awesome crackpot theory I’ve read so far. Do you think the creators would be that brave to do something so difficult to wrap your head around? I think so. We’ll have to wait and see….
February 4th, 2010 at 11:38 am
“I want to go Home!”
I am so glad they are keeping up with the Wizard of Oz references- because as you guys know its my favorite thing. I can’t tell if I am more glad that the show is back on or that I get to listen to all of you guys again…all of it is great!
I have to say- I was kind of disappointed with the fact that they milked another death out of Juliet- it sort of waters down the first one which was so beautiful and well done.
I do like that Sayid was resurrected though…should make for a fun season!
Welcome back!
February 4th, 2010 at 11:46 am
@Joe: The last comicon finished by “Somewhere over the rainbow!”. Now I think the Wizard Of Oz storyline really is going somewhere! The Man Behind The Curtain (Ben) will be met in the “real” world has a manipulative guy who is not that bad. Those guys who were lacking heart, brain and courage will have found it in this world (while they were looking for it in “Oz” but they had it all along just not knowing it). I think the Wizard Of Oz song was the right one for the last comicon song because it will be the most fitting to this season and this show.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
I apologize if someone else has posted something similar, but here’s my theory on the alternate timeline:
Last season we were told that you can’t change the past, present or future, because whatever happened, happened. Based on this theory time is like a string that cannot be altered. Our characters may have jumped back and forth to different points on that string, but there’s nothing they can do to change the course of that string. From a storytelling perspective, this means that the story of our characters has already been written and cannot be altered.
Faraday’s plan to change the future was based on the idea of introducing the power of an atomic bomb to the electromagnetic properties of the island. I think what we’ve seen this season in the alternate timeline is the result of an energy so powerful that the timeline was literally ripped in two.
So prior to 1977 and the moment of the Incident we have one timeline, as things were meant to be, but after 1977 we have two divergent timelines, as if that string had been torn and taken two separate paths. This way, you avoid any paradoxes. Our characters that went back in time and visited the 70’s and the 50’s were all from the string we’re familiar with.
And this is just awesome from a storytelling perspective because we get the best of both worlds: the reset and our characters given a second chance and the continuation of the story on the island. Only, the manner in which these two alternate realities were created and the connection between them seems as though it’s extremely relevant to the rest of the plot and the ultimate end of the series.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Love hearing everyone’s thoughts again this year…I had forgotten how much work I don’t get done when the show is on…
@ MLE : re: Juliet – agree they milked it a little, but here is a little more credence to the fact that she never died last season: She falls in and as she’s hitting the bomb she and the rest flash forward in time. If she had died before the flash she would not have come forward in time because we know that Charlotte’s dead body did not come through time last season. They have to be alive to flash.
@ Jessica : re: LA_X – thanks – that was a great way to put things in perspective I think – For me, I think it will make since to refer to the new timeline folks as Jack_X ; Sun_X ; Arzt_X ; etc.
@ Noelle & everyone: RE: Christian – Agree that perhaps MIB & or Jacob may be using the cabin and the likeness of Christian to their ends. Very well put.
It also makes me think back to when Ben tells John he must kill his father as a sign of commitment. Hmmm. Does anyone think that Jack will end up having to kill Christian ( or what looks like Christian ) to prove their faith in _______. Crazy?
@ Alex in MD : re: Aliens : I agree though I see the fuss people make about this and understand ( I was furious about the new Indiana Jones ); but in this instance we were shown the comic book in one of the very 1st episodes w/ the alien; a city in a bubble ( space ship? ) ; etc. I agree that it’s somewhat…allowable??….not sure how Ryan feels from memory but please don’t hate me Jen!
February 4th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Oh yeah… @ Yann: RE: Sawyer_X & Hurley_X: Sawyer_X surely knows a good long-con and from Arzt_X’s conversation w/ him will know enough about who he is and where he can find him to start running a con. I’d bet on it.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Actually reading that is a little harder than I thought. Maybe just SawyerX, CharlieX, JinX, etc….
Namaste! NuckinFutsX
February 4th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Maybe the shippers can have it all! Maybe it’s Jaters & Suliets & SkatersX & DesclairesX, etc. Ugh.
February 4th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
@Nuckinfuts: The most important part with SawyerX (I can’t belive I am doing this) was how joyfull he seemed! Totally the opposite of Sawyer season1 after killing the wrong guy! So maybe Sawyer… Maybe he was James in that plane! Maybe he is not looking for the killer of his parent and never wrote that letter after all (as the flashback with Jacob might have let us guess) and thus never killed a guy in Australia. And maybe he is not a con man now!
February 4th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
@ Yann: It felt good didn’t it? ( SawyerX ) Haha….now I know exactly who you’re talking about….and we’re all insane!
That’s a great point. If SunX & JinX are not married, etc. maybe SawyerX is a lot more different too & perhaps his folks did not die. I suppose all history since the explosion could be different for the entire world. Perhaps The Red SoxX always win the series. Hmmmm….
February 4th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
@Glenn:
“when did the ash circle become broken (which would tell us a lot.)”
Here’s my crack-pot theory: Ben takes Locke to Jacob’s Cabin; Ben later confessed he never saw Jacob, but Locke heard him saying “help me”. Then Ben takes Locke to the dead Dharma folks pit, and shoots him. “Walt” appears to Locke and prevents him from killim himself saying “you have work to do” So, what if Locke went to the cabin and broke the ash circle? Remember, the next time we see Locke after that incident with Walt, he is different, and he kills Naomi while Jack is calling the freighter.
Here’s more: Ilana, Bram and their guild are taking the box with Locke’s dead body to the cabin. Once there, they notice the circle of ash has been broken and they get worried. Ilana goes inside the cabin and finds the piece of cloth on the wall with a clue as to where to head to afterwards. She comes out and says something like “He hasn’t been here for a while. Someone else has been using it”. So, what if (after a conflict/confrontation we will learn about this season) Jacob was able to imprison the MiB in the cabin and put the ash circle around it. He had left the clue as to where he could be found (inside the statue’s foot), and moved back to live there (which is where he was living at when the Black Rock arrived in the island.
This means that the “Jacob” Ben was always communicating with was NOT Jacob, but MiB. He was also the one who manipulated Locke to help him out of there by breaking the ash circle, so that later he could “clone” Locke, send him in search of the O6 and to his demise, and this way return to the island to have Jacob killed. To me, that is the loophole he devised.
Another crack-pot theory for all to ponder.
Ryan and Jenn, we all love you for giving us this “home” where we can discuss and be friends. You’ll never know how much we appreciate what you’ve given us. Congratulation on the Nightline publicity!
February 4th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
@nuttinfuts_x I thought Sawyer was trying to butter up Hurley and start a con by pretending to watch out for him. I could swear his eyes lit up when he heard “lottery winner”.
re: alternate reality at LAX – Carlton and Damon’s zombie seson? (ha ha)
February 4th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
oops sorry meant NuckinFutsX
Also being a Boston Red Sox fan, I cannot live in a world where we don’t win a world series, been there, did that, for too many years!! Go Sox!
February 4th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Also Woohoo! Hit over 300 reponses? All time high? Is this a good thing or does it just mean we are all very confused?
February 4th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
One last thing before I make my hungry kids dinner.
This is from EW.com, a video with a side by side comparison of both flights of 815.
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/04/lost-a-side-by-side-comparison/?ew_packageID=20313460?xid=email-alert-lost-20100204-item1
February 4th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
@ Carol from Boston: Like I said…I would bet on it. I base that on SawyerX helping KateX out….he’s not as nice-guy as all that…but Yann made me think the odds should be lowered a little. If anyone is in or near Las Vegas they will have to let me know if there is an actual bet on something like this. I’ve heard you can bet on just about anything there like the outcome of a coin toss before the Superbowl, who scores first, etc. so I’m sure they may be taking LOST bets.
February 4th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Since I get so nervous every time I call Ryan and Jen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmIpaZDiQ5Y
Here’s a video I made talking about LA X Part One =)
February 4th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
My bet is they will keep the two alternative timelines going until close to the end of the season where they will merge in some way.
The LAX timeline is different to the original because the island was destroyed in the 70s. Ben and his influence on the outside world would have also died with the island. I’m not sure if Widmore was on the island at the time, but even if not, he would no longer care. So all of the people prodding the losties in the right direction along the way would be out of the picture.
February 4th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
@Fernando
Didn’t we see Locke scoop up a handful of ash when Ben first brought him to the cabin? Is that when the circle was first broken?
We know Jacob’s appearance to Hurley was not MIB. I seem to recall Darlton claiming there were two distinct types of manifestation on the island. Therefore, we shouldn’t assume that Christian Shepherd is just another puppet of Smokey. In fact, I think he functions as a spirit guide as did Ben’s mother, Emily, as well as Jacob in LA X. Dave, Yemi, and Alex seem the most likely to be MIB in disguise. I also think there are rules to how smokey can wield his deceit. I remember Dave fleeing at the sound of the alarm. I really wish they would bring back the concept of “dark territory” mentioned by Rousseau as smokey’s domain.
As someone mentioned above, how come the others are free to roam the island with smokey on the loose? There must be limitations or ways to evade him. Is that why they creep along and speak in indecipherable whispers?
February 4th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
Heres another random idea. What if we’re not watching a side-ways flash? What if the bomb went off, the crash never happened on the island, but so how they end up on the island, kinda like what happened with the other flight ajira 316? Maybe they all ended up back on there with Jacob’s intervention and poof, they are on the island.
Like I said, random though, but that would make sense since they do flash backs, flash forwards, but side-ways seems a bit of a stretch.
February 4th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
There has been speculation about Desmond being on Oceanic 815 (flash-sideways version). Some say that only Jack saw him. That he might have been an apparition or something to that effect.
I went back and watched the scene starting just before when Cindy called for a Doctor.
She made the announcement over the PA. When she makes the announcement, Desmond is in the aisle seat reading and Jack is in the window seat.
Cindy comes back and turns out the call light when she’s standing in the aisle and asks Jack if he’s a doctor. Note where she’s standing. She’s in the aisle in line with the row that Jack is in.
Then we switch to a view where we’re looking forward/up the aisle towards Jack & Cindy. Note Cindy’s position again. She hasn’t moved. She’s still in the aisle with her hand touching the aisle side of the headrest of the aisle seat.
Someone is clearly sitting in that seat. The aisle seat of Jack’s row. Someone with long brown hair. That someone clearly sits up to allow Jack to get into the aisle and then that someone sits back down once Jack is in the aisle.
It has to be Desmond. Desmond did not “appear” to Jack only like his father has done. Desmond was corporeally present in the “LA X” version of Oceanic 815. He moved seats temporarily and after the incident with Charlie was over, moved back to his prior seat.
Bottom line. Desmond was truly present on the flash-sideways 815. He wasn’t included in the shot where Cindy turned off the call light, but he was definitely on flash-sideways 815. (Crossposted at YuBlog.org)
February 4th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Wow, after reading all these posts I’m exhausted and don’t want to repeat theories that ppl have already shared. However, I have a theory on the LA X name. What if it’s a reference to LA roman numeral 10, meaning this is the 10th time our Losties are replaying this particular event in their lives. LA for the 10th time. Ala Groundhog’s Day (an idea that’s been tossed around a lot) — the episode was on GHD afterall
Maybe Faraday finally figured out how to “make time” and the universe is just waiting for them to get it right.
We’re not seeing alternate realities, or parallel universes, but iteration number 10 of the Lost Loop. They’ll figure it out this season and we’ll get to see how it all comes together.
@Adam in Grapevine — I looove Terry Pratchett!
February 4th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Please refer to my earlier post on Lost Trans-dimensional Transference to Universe X…
Firstly, my theory is starting to grow in acceptance after listening to Darlton’s latest podcast (Go on iTunes to dl) where they mentioned Universe X is happening at the same time and should be considered an equal reality.
Secondly, the ninja leader of the Temple’s name is Dogan which refers to a book by Stephen King, The Dark Tower, who’s main watchtower was called Dogan as well. So, if the writers are referencing The Dark Tower, then I theorize that the parallel Universe theme is going to be the same:
In the Dark Tower: The Gunslinger, Roland of Gilead is a cowboy/lawman hunting “The Dark Man” in a parallel universe whose foundation is falling apart. In the pursuit, Roland comes across a young boy who, in a parallel world, The Dark Man killed by throwing him into New York traffic; Jake Chambers remembers as the truck ran over his face. As Jake dies in our Universe, he travels to Roland’s universe instantaneously. So I think this is what MUST happen for our Lost-ies in order for them to live in a world without The Island.
Finally, with Sayid dying for more than an hour, I theorize we will find out whether or not dying is the answer to transferring over to the separate dimension. I welcome any thoughts.
PS: Love the show and I wished I participated during the rewatch. I got my parents into watching Lost, but we watched it in Spanish so I would have submitted my thoughts in the wrong language. Thank you for reading and if you mention it on the show.
February 4th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
PS PS: Did any of you think it strange that John Locke in Universe X? I mean, if Jacob brought Locke back to life after falling out of a window (which was validated in the Extended Version of last seasons finale), and if the island has been sunk in this Universe X (assuming with Jacob), how can Locke be alive? Seems like a plot hole, but I was wondering if anyone else mentioned it.
February 4th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
I was wondering if the young Ben was healed in the pool. He was changed, lost his innocence and memory. Dogen said that trying to heal Sayid had risks. I think he meant more than just death. Jimmy Kimmel asked Darlton if Sayid was possessed by Jacob and they hinted someone or something else. Can MIB be more than one person at a time. He is not inhabiting Locke’s body, he is imitating it because Locke is still on the ground. So does he really inhabit someone? He had to change form to kill Bram et al and then changed back into Locke. Also we know that MIB/Smokey can enter the second level under the temple, so why not the first through the hole? I wonder how the ash ring around the temple can keep him out.
MIB told Jacob that he had gone to great lengths to find his loophole. That means he has been manipulating things for a very long time. Perhaps since Ben was healed. I think Jacob knew and prepared for MIB’s plan by touching the Losties and bringing them to the island. I think that is who he said are coming along with Alana. I wonder why Jacob didn’t have an ash ring around the statue. I think he knew it was time for the final stage to happen whatever that is. Notice that his tapestry was done and he was waiting in his rocking chair. He was willingly sacrified, much like Christ.
I too like to compare MIB and Jacob to Lucfer and Christ. Lucifer wanted to force everyone to heaven, but Christ came to allow free will. Jacob always says to each person, “you have a choice”
I think the key to understanding the flash sideways is when MIB said that Locke was the only one who knew that he had a pitiful life. Did you notice that all their lives continued into a pitiful state. Except for Locke who was told by Jack that nothing was reversible. It seems that each person’s situation was the opposite of what it was on the original flight. On Jimmy Kimmel. Darlton said that the absence of Shannon was not a coincidence.
I also think Richard was a survivor of the Black Rock. I think he too was healed in the pool. Hence his immortality. I wonder if Dogen is also ageless. Do the others represent the survivors of past groups that Jacob has brought to the island. Did MIB bring the Dharma or did Jacob?
February 4th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
I just had a thought about “Locke’s” comment to Richard, “Its good to see out you of those chains” – Is it possible that “Locke” was referring to a time when “HE” was in chains and Richard was guarding “Him”??? The next thing that happens is “Locke” beats Richard up.
February 4th, 2010 at 11:45 pm
Was watching the “fans will be irritating” again. And when they show the chart you can keep with the DVD season 5 (in france I didn’t got that). You can see:
Cave Skeletons are Amelia Earhart (sound familiar?) and Fred Noonan!!!
Well fake is written in red next to that but I thought it was funny they put Earhart on this commercial just before Sawyer called Cindy this way.
Crackpot theory noX: Juliet talked about coffee before dying and thus said it worked, Charlotte talked about Chocolate before dinner and we assume it was from her childhoud (due to the Sickness near the boat but no others saw vision of their past) and Eko told Locke “You’re next” and I assumed it meant he was the next one to manipulated by the monster… But what if they just had a glimps of the other universe before dying? Are we going to see them say those exact words next season?
February 5th, 2010 at 2:40 am
Well well
I found what was the book read by Desmond on the plane
by the cover
Haroun & the Sea of Stories
Apparently it is a children book
but it is rather a metaphor of free speech and censorship
It is a tale of the saddest of cities with hypersurreallistics much like Alice in Wonderland hehehehe
with opposing protagonists where the hero says
”What’s the use of stories that are not even true?”
It is kind of interesting
February 5th, 2010 at 3:33 am
Amazing now that I think about it: Jack reconizes Desmond, Boone is admiratif of John, Jin asks his wife to bottom up, Hugo listens to his music, Jack can’t find the body of his father, Jack saved Charlie from chocking and ask for a pen, Jin is having problem because he doesn’t speak English (and will be handcuffed due to that next episode I am sure)…
They told us to look back at season1 but what we are having is really a second happening!
We knew that “whatever happened happened” but the knew big line this season will be “nothing is irreversible”!
February 5th, 2010 at 4:27 am
Well over 300 messages! Has there ever been that many?
I have nothing to add or ask as so much has been discussed here already. I am vacationing with my family in the Outback (may I will see Locke, I will keep you posted
.
I find it sad that no one from S2 was present, I guess they did not matter after all.
Thanks for enhancing The Lost Experience and keep up the good work.
Ilias
February 5th, 2010 at 5:24 am
First off, love the podcast, love Lost.
Just wanted to put this out there because of the whole Esau thing.
I’m kind of surprised that I’ve not seen this anywhere, but Esau forgave Jacob. When Jacob left home to escape Esau’s wrath, he went to his uncle, Laban. There he was tricked into marrying the older daughter, Leah, before he could marry his true love, Rachel. Eventually, he left to possibly reconcile with Esau. He brought his entire family and wealth and eventually made it back home. Esau came to meet him and, surprisingly to Jacob, welcomes him back and forgives him the ’sins of the past’. The big irony here is that Jacob is the deciever and trickster. He constantly lies and scemes, along with his mother, to get things, like the birthright that should have gone to Esau. But, in the end, Esau forgave Jacob.
Also, in an earlier post, Malachi was mentioned. By the time that this book was written, the Edomites (Esau’s descendents), had been displaced by outside peoples. So when God talks about hating Esau, he’s saying that he hates the peoples that have taken the Edomites land since they aren’t loyal to God.
Last thing, @ Garrett J, are you saying that in 1977, something happened to make everything SKEW OFF into a tangent. Sorry, too much of a certain podcast were that reference comes up a lot.
Again, love the podcast, love the show, love that it’s on Tuesday now since that one of my days off and I can watch live.
February 5th, 2010 at 5:45 am
Great episode. One nit to pick: when Jack, Kate, etc travelled from 1977 to 2007, how did they manage to bring the Dharma VW van with them?
February 5th, 2010 at 6:10 am
@Ilias
Bernard, no? “Now I know how the laundry feels.” He was great in his little cameo.
@Bonita
They love to play with ambiguity in language, but I don’t know if that one’s right. It almost feels like a foregone conclusion that we’ll see Richard brought to the island on the Black Rock. Although he could just have easily been brought there at any time, say at the time of the building of the statue of Tawaret.
February 5th, 2010 at 6:28 am
@Rusty, in Season 5, Faraday explained that when flashing through time, anything you have with you goes along for the ride. Maybe since Hurley and Sayid were in or touching the van, it went with them.
February 5th, 2010 at 7:41 am
@Rich: The Statue… We did not adress that since a long time, let’s try with our new understanding: MIB wants to go “home” (but apparently can’t transpace “dirt/land” and can only walk on Island land). Jacob was a problem to do that (that’s why I think he was a warden/educator). The Others work for Jacob but getting on Island seems very difficult. If MIB has manipulate the Others in the present he might have done it in the past. I think one of the first thing he did was get rid of the statue so that they couldn’t have children and thus less guardian to keep him from doing what he wanted.
That’s why Ethan could have been concived on Island, because his parents were not Others, and why they take children when they can to protect the Island.
Something else: Jack has been visited by the Others in his cage and now he seems to be special… I think Tom was wrong when he said he was not on the lists. The Shepards ARE specials!
February 5th, 2010 at 8:33 am
Killing Jacob Theory: I have not gone back to see…but what knife did Ben use? Was it the very old looking knife that Richard displayed to young Locke? Wasn’t it “The Golden Child” movie w/ Eddie Murphy that you had to use a special knife to kill the baddy? Any thoughts on this?
February 5th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Desmond disappears from the plane possibly at the same time we see the camera leave the plane window and scan all the way underwater to the foot of the statue. Was this more than suspenseful camera work? Were we seeing Desmond somehow move to the island from the plane?
February 5th, 2010 at 9:12 am
Knives, cool background on your youtube video page, where did you get that picture?
February 5th, 2010 at 9:20 am
i didn’t see this mentioned, but it just hit me that i think we’ve been wrong about the smoke monster all this time. in retrospect, i think it’s accurate to say that the monster was not “judging” anybody but “scanning” them, looking for any pieces of their past that he might be able to use to his advantage.
when he scanned ben underneath the temple, he learned about what happened to alex. and next thing you know, he turned into alex, who convinced ben to obey locke (MIB). with ben, smokey found someone who had a strong enough motive to kill jacob. he used alex (ben’s weakness) to further his agenda. this makes sense why in the finale, fake Locke knows everything about what ben has done “in the name of a man he’s never met.”
remember, he also scanned eko, and with eko’s history, the MIB thought he might use eko’s brother to force eko to do his bidding. but eko found redemption and was killed for it.
so in short, smokey scans, but doesn’t judge.
February 5th, 2010 at 9:28 am
@ Yann
I totally agree that MIB has manipulated the others and visitors to the island for a long time, back to the dawn of human awakening and exploration, not just back to the Black Rock as some have postulated. It would be great to see a dramatization of MIB manipulating an unwitting character into bringing down the statue, only too late realizing they had done so in the service of darkness. However, the other possibility is that the collapse of Tawaret happened because ofThe Incident. As you say, the birth of Ethan indicates that the well of fertlilty had not been closed off as of that point. And I can just imagine another inadequate CGI moment (to Ryan) in which the statue comes down.
One other note about the collapse of Tawaret as it relates to the fertility issues. I really hope the explanation for the interruption in fertilty has some scientific basis rooted in the tear in the fabric of time and isn’t just the product of the destruction of this giant totem. If the latter were the case anyway, why not just build another?
February 5th, 2010 at 9:29 am
We saw the ad for Nightline during the show, and Tivoed it. Watched it last night. Picture a white-haired fiftysomething woman bouncing up and down on the sofa shrieking “It’s Ryan and Jen! It’s Ryan and Jen!” while her puzzled husband is looking at her as if she’s gone insane.
Of course, I informed him that you have THE BEST Lost podcast!
February 5th, 2010 at 9:50 am
@NuckinFuts: Richard really wanted to know if John would reconize the compass but he did not because in fact in was not John’s but MIB’s. But he did react strongly when he picked the knive… maybe you have something interesting there!
Some of us might wonder why the smoke was used as a guard in Othertown and by Ben to be judged. MIB has been really good at deceving everyone about that part of his identity! Yet the Others clearly knew that “dead people” could be used by him… I wonder how Jacob could not have told them about that! Maybe he only knows how to write lists!
February 5th, 2010 at 10:03 am
@Russell: I was on that wagon since the start! That’s my theory since… I don’t remember how long!
I think the Others knew that dead people were wrong but thought the Monster was their keeper…
@Rich: It was a very tall statue… and with no sons to help you rebuild it… (just joking)
@Ryan: Desmond disappears after Jack saved Charlie not after the swimmy part. But I noticed that Jack nor Cindy seems to react to him… So the mistery about if he was here or not still linger. (I think he was) But the biggest thing is: he is married!!! Third time the charm! (ok I should stop with that I know)
February 5th, 2010 at 10:11 am
@ Bonita:
I think you’re up to something. Maybe zombie Locke was the one who had been in chains (not necessarily Richard, as we all seem to have assumed). The sentence is ambiguous, and it can be interpreted both ways. Good catch!
February 5th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Two most awesome moments from 6.01:
1) Hurley: “What happened?” Jin: “I found a flashlight.”
2) Bram picks up the bullet that he shot at the MiB, and then you hear the hunting call of the smoke monster. MOST EPIC MOMENT EVER!!!
February 5th, 2010 at 11:23 am
I just got done watching the jimmy Kimmel stuff and listening to the ABC podcasts — not sure where I heard it, but I think Darlton said that John Locke was the smoke monster and not the man in black in one of these. The way it was worded, I think, gave the impression that they weren’t one and the same…
What if Richard Alpert was The Man in Black’s replacement? Notice we’ve seen Jacob in the present, but not the Man in Black. Likewise, we haven’t seen Richard and the Man in Black at the same time — or the smoke monster and Jacob and the Man and Black on the screen at the same time in past.
What if the Man in Black became the Smoke Monster when Jacob chose Richard as his new advisor? He sort of fell from grace and no longer had a physical body until Locke provided that to him again.
Just a crazy theory. Can’t wait for your podcast!
February 5th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Poster clues (I posted this on yublog as well)
TVGuide.com: We hear there are some little hints in the final poster. What should fans take away from viewing this?
Cuse: I think you should look in there and there will be a couple of clues to the final season that are embedded in that poster. It will make a lot of sense once you’ve actually seen a few episodes of the show.
Lindelof: You should look at the poster and think of the things you’ve seen on the show, and then whatever else is left, that’s a clue for Season 6.
February 5th, 2010 at 11:40 am
The poster I am referring to is the one from the damon and carlton and a polar bear poster sale.
February 5th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
@fernando – could explain the “chain sound effect” with smokey
February 5th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
All this poster talk had me thinking… In the first S6 poster we saw at ComiCon (the one with Locke facing away from us) what if, in the end, all those folks on Locke’s left hand side are dead, and those on the right hand side, alive?
February 5th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Wonderful episode and the last 15 min were some of the best acted scenes ever on this show. Also loved how they had Locke and Jack say the same lines “you wouldn’t believe me if I told you” from S1 “White Rabbit”.
The best part? A new Transmission Podcast! Love the work and welcome back.
February 5th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Hi Jen and Ryan,
Loved the two hour opener. I have many thoughts but don’t want to overwhelm you. One point I wanted to bring up is this.
Way back when, when Locke moved the island, those in the helicopter watched the island sort of “plop” and disappear in the ocean. Like it sort of sunk. I was wondering that the view from Jack’s seat from the plane, in 2004, was because that’s where the island went when someone moved the island. perhaps when the island is moved, a parallel universe is formed?
February 5th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
I’ve read them all (whew!), although I haven’t hit “refresh” in a couple of hours…so who knows?
So many great comments, I’m utterly convinced that you all could (and should?) write for the show.
I agree with many of you, like Carol from Boston, that Jacob is not to be trusted, that he is not “the good guy.” I think of what Lapidus says about “not buying it”, and I’m with our good captain.
Yann from France: Loved your reminder of Locke using a surrogate killer (Sawyer) to kill his father and so become the leader (which is also a reversal of the Abraham/Isaac story…although of course God stops Abraham from killing his son.) Then we have Ben killing Jacob. There are tons of surrogates on Lost–surrogate moms, dads…and now killers.
Bonita in Atlanta: So Jacob is their Constant? I love that!
Steven in Bathurst and Rich in Cleveland: Love the idea of Desmond and the Black Rock, and again the theme of people being in places they are not supposed to be. (Like Charlie noting that he is “supposed to die.” Or Claire being told not to let her son be raised by an/Other [like Kate?]. Or how they’re not supposed to leave the island, as Locke says…where am I going with this? Wish I knew!)
Aaron in Scotland: I have a minor quibble with the idea of being able to kill Jacob’s followers only after Jacob is gone. If that is so, why not go ahead and do it right away? UnLocke/Smoky first talks to them about the relief of being “freed”.
One more comment before 3rd viewing: the second death of Juliet. I still think it was cheap and manipulative. While I understand and appreciate the logical narrative line provided by NuckinFuts (about how she needed to be alive to flash to the new time), dramatically her original death was da bomb. (My fingers made me do that.)
February 5th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
@Kirsten Hansen: There’s a biblical line about the final judgement, when he shall separate the sheep from the goats, or something like that I think.
Ryan and Jen: Kudos to you for the excellent podcast and the well-deserved Nightline, NPR, and ABC News mentions! Don’t like to see this end, so I hope you’ll do rewatches of seasons 4, 5, and 6!! (Okay, and maybe 1, 2 and 3, after we’ve read the whole book, er, seen the whole series.)
February 5th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
@lucydog – parallel universe ? hmmmmmm
Has anyone happened to follow the show Fringe? Fringe has been dealing with the parallel universe theme off & on since the beginning.
I couldn’t help but notice especially in last night’s episode, the many similarities between it’s parallel universe theme and LOST throughout the whole show.
I mean JJ Abrams – LOST – Fringe ???? Parallel Universe(s) Just could be the answer to the whole series.
February 5th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
I think Hurley will be the next leader of the “others”… he saw the cabin in other seasons, and he is so good hearted, I love this character!
February 5th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
oh! and remember Back to the Future II when Doc explains Marty how Time is divided when you change something in the past! parallel universe 101
February 5th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
MOST IMPORTANT LINES OF THE NIGHT:
1. Juliet:
“It worked,” = the bomb went off and it did restart things, just as Faraday and Jack hoped. THAT’S what we’re watching when we see the 815 flight that lands at LAX.
2. Cindy, the stewardess/then as a much shaggier temple dweller:
“He was with me on the FIRST plane…” Note that the temple dwelllers seem to know exactly what she means, and back off- like the first plane was harmless.
The others know that 815’s flight actually happened TWICE. The first was when it harmlessly reached LAX.
The second was when it was brought down by the Desmond screw-up.
BOTH were part of MIB’s massive chess game to bring Jacob down.
The first attempt failed because “It worked”- the bomb prevented the crash.
The second attempt succeded because MIB brought Desmond to the island where he screwed up and set in motion the events that ultimately lead to Jacob’s murder. (Note that Desmond is motivated by Widmore’s badness- an ally of the MIB?)
February 5th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
I really think that we got a glimpse at why Desmond was called “uniquely, and miraculously special” by Farraday. I believe he knows what is going on and will eventually be a major player in bringing the two realities back together. That’s why he was on the plane one moment, and then he disappeared the next. I think he was there to get things rolling with Jack.
February 5th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
@yann props to you then for calling that early on. i definitely was under the impression that smokey was judging people all this time.
@lucydog good thinking! i remember that was the big mystery: if the losties were flashing through time, why did the whole island disappear? i think you’re onto to something with that “plop” theory.
February 5th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
@Fernando
I love your crackpot theory about the timeline of the ash breaking. The only hole I can find in it is: Why did MIB wait until Locke was gone from the cabin before telling him about the “work he had to do?” Seems like he could have just told him to break the ash on the way out. Also seems like he could have conveyed that message without Ben being privy to it. And who knows? Maybe he did, and the ash was already broken, and his message to Locke as he was lying in the purge mass grave was about other things he had told him.
But on the whole, I like it, and it ties in nicely to my own thoughts — one of which is that prior to the appearance Christian made to Claire, it was Jacob who was appearing as Christian. Seems to me that all his appearances prior to that were more or less benevolent in nature — sending Vincent to wake him up in the pilot, and later helping Jack find water when it was desperately needed. Plus, remember that Jacob had relatively recently “touched” Jack back in L.A. To me that means that for whatever reason, Jacob had a vested interest in Jack “doing well” on the island or something (whatever that means). Also note that Christian was always wearing white shoes in those early sightings — BUT AFTER THE LOCKE-VISITING-THE-CABIN EPISODE, WE NEVER SAW THE WHITE SHOES ON CHRISTIAN AGAIN.
The first time Christian appears in different garb is when he appears to Claire. To me that is the clear demarcation point — the first time that Christian appeared under the influence of Smokey/MIB/Nemesis. And to my eyes, from that point forward, Christian became a much more overt manipulator — pushing John Locke towards his own desired ends. Watch him — he seems to be much more directive from that point on — directing JL to his own ends. Prior to that, he was trapped in the cabin, with less capacity to impact the events of the island (not saying he still couldn’t impact things as Ol’ Smokey, but just not as broadly as he would have liked.) Once he was freed from the cabin, his power and manipulation-ability factor rose. And, as you pointed out, something in John seems to have changed after that first visit. (I am going to re-watch that episode to see if I agree with you on that one.)
All in all, your crackpot theory fills in a lot of the blanks on my own crackpot theory! Thanks for the ideas!
Oh, and by the way, a corollary to this crackpot theory is that if it’s true, then MIB probably is holding Claire somewhere on the island, either against her will, or not. Because that would have been Smokey-Nemesis in the cabin with Claire, not Jacob.
@Rich in Cleveland — I don’t know if we actually SAW John Locke pick up some ash or not. I’m going to rewatch that episode tonight.
February 5th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
@Russell & @Yann:
I agree that MIB/Nemesis is the scanning/manipulating Smoke Monster. But, I’m not sold yet on the fact that only MIB is able to take the form of the Smoke Monster — I think that Jacob can take that form too.
For starters, it’s hard to believe that MIB/Nemesis can have free reign inside the Temple, the stronghold of Jacob and his followers. My intuition keeps telling me that the Smokey that “judged” Ben was actually Jacob, “greasing the wheels” to his own death by telling Ben that he absolutely MUST obey Locke at all costs. Remember — Locke appeared VERY surprised to hear Ben relay the message he received. Not just slightly surprised. If he wasn’t surprised because it was actually him, then it was one hell of an acting job — and a big red herring by Team Darlton. He even said out loud something to the effect of “Well, I guess it will be easier to convince you to do what I need you to do after all” — with very convincing facial expressions.
Maybe Jacob’s version of the Smoke Monster IS the judger (why else would Ben make such a big deal about being judged?), while MIB’s version is the Scan-For-Manipulation-Potential.
Throw it on the crackpot possibilities pile!
February 6th, 2010 at 12:17 am
@Glenn: the circule HAD been broken way before otherwise how could smokey be outside and “help me” inside…
He played Eko during the whole season2.
No but Christian has been met by Jack only and Smokey probably used the corpse from the coffin description (as with Yemi), but Claire if scanned might have brought other “incarnations” of Christian.
Christian does tell Locke he needs to sacrifice and tells Sun she needs to follow Locke, just has his daughter told Ben to follow Locke… that does not sound good for now but who knows.
Well you talk about “acting” form Locke? A MIB you mean no? I know it’s hard to tell the difference… which would prove is a good actor! Remember “You speak to me as if I were your brother/John Looke”
February 6th, 2010 at 12:49 am
The Lost video game was called “Via Domus”: Latin for what can be translated to “way home”. The end is very intrigging (no spoiler). I think I should take an other look at that.
February 6th, 2010 at 4:18 am
Quick thought. If Locke really died, why did they have to take his body back to the Island? Was there some real purpose? i.e. Will we see him “resurrect” later? Or was it just to keep the story going??
February 6th, 2010 at 5:16 am
I’m podcast starved!!! Hoping you have yours ready soon. You guys can have a life later, we need you!!!
February 6th, 2010 at 5:27 am
@Joe: Locke appearing from nowhere would have caused trouble for Ben to follow his order… But if he thought it was resurected Locke why should he doubt him instead of fear him (and we know he already feared John’s influence since he shot him because of that).
February 6th, 2010 at 7:18 am
Christian questions
1. Where was fake locke when Christian was talking to Sun and Lapidus at the dharma camp?
2. Since Christian can touch and hold things, why did he refuse to help John? Why couldn’t he touch him?
@Glen – good observation re: Christian’s clothes, I haven’t noticed the shoes, I noticed the suit jacke and tie missing, just couldn’t pinpoint when that changed.
I haven’t been able to rewatch season 5 so my memories aren’t fresh about that season.
I am rewatching the premiere, and I am at the beginning, I have changed my mind about Sawyer, he looks sincere about trying to help Hurley instead of taking his money. I also caught Kate stealing Jack’s pen.
Had to stop watching till later, too many things to do today. I know that many of you have watched the episodes over and over, I haven’t, so thanks for helping me and pointing things out to me. I am watching the episode again with so many more things in mind.
February 6th, 2010 at 7:20 am
Ryan and Jen – Good luck with the podcast this week and keeping it under two hours, the board alone is overwhelming, I can’t imagine how many more emails and phone calls you have to sift through as well.
Thanks in advance for all the hard work.
February 6th, 2010 at 7:38 am
Nancy, we’re working on it! We’ve already recorded the first half or so, and that’s without the feedback or the forward cabin.
Our podcasts will continue to be released on Sundays. With the new Tuesday night broadcasts of “LOST,” we know our shows are now closer than ever to the next new episode, but we figure we’ll just position ourselves as a good day-before primer for it.
Frankly, the web is chock full of “initial reaction” and day after podcasts, so we’ve always enjoyed taking the extra time to put out a podcast with as much consideration (and especially great feedback) as we can each week. Thanks for listening!
February 6th, 2010 at 7:47 am
I’ve been thinking about the episode title, LA X.
Maybe it was a clue to the two different timelines. One takes place in LA, the other on The Island (“X”). The fact that LAX was the destination of 815 just cemented it.
February 6th, 2010 at 7:49 am
Joe in Texas-Locke’s dead body may have some ultimate purpose, but I think it’s main duty was to function as a “holy crap!” generator and proof that the real Locke is dead and the walking-around Locke is an impostor. Some of my favorite moments are from recent episodes when they dumped out dead Locke (ha ha “deadlock”) in front of Richard and especially Ben Linus! Ruh-roh!
February 6th, 2010 at 7:54 am
@Ryan, I agree, a later podcast gives you a lot more time to really figure out the episode and get more feedback. Plus as a parent myself, I know how difficult it is to get anything done during the school/work week.
Plus this will give everyone something fun to listen to on their Monday morning commute, or something to listen to on Sunday to fend off those Monday blues.
February 6th, 2010 at 8:01 am
@Carol: 1_I asked myself that in season5… It goes like this: Sun knocks out Ben and go to the Island, we hear smoke monster sound then whispers then Christian appears to Jin and Sun and he tells them to wait for John. John is with the 2nd flight that night (and all wonder where he came from) wake Ben the next day and then go to big Island… So yes, Christian might be John/MIB/Smokey…
2_If he helped him turn the wheel he would have gone out Island and couldn’t do what he wanted. The game seems to be about “letting everyone do what they want” and the one that makes is best case win. “You kill him/no you have choice”.
@Ryan: I agree with Carol! That is insane! But it was the first time they did a 2hour premiere and the last season one to add more… and they add a whole lot of questions on top of that. After almost a year we did not have a knew episode and now everyone is just going insane I guess. But I am sure things will be more “quiet” next week.
Cheers! Cheers! Cheers! Lost is still so great!!! You are all so great! This is just so much fun!!!
February 6th, 2010 at 8:37 am
JSM-I had completely forgotten Cindy’s comment in the temple and I like your explanation of what it might mean. I think it will be important.
February 6th, 2010 at 9:19 am
I mentioned this at the time but nobody picked up on it, but when the Oceanic 6 returned to the island in Season 5 Jack waked Kate after dragging her out of the lake/river. The scene was replayed at the end of the episode and her line was different. In one she said ‘are we there’ and in the other otherwise identical scene she said ‘what happened’.
I’m thinking two timelines right there. Can someone with the DVD check the episode and confirm?
February 6th, 2010 at 10:25 am
This is a question no one has addressed. In season 5, Locke turned the donkey wheel and left the island with the mission to bring the Oceanic 6 back. During his unsuccessful coaxing tour, he DID have use of his legs (he even drove a car) although he had a severe leg injury. How was that possible outside of the island?
February 6th, 2010 at 10:28 am
@Yann Ah I see, thanks!
@Connie_in_Oregon Thanks for your reply!! BTW, almost typed “Alaska”! lol
February 6th, 2010 at 10:31 am
@Ryan – No worries on the later podcast! Keep up the outstanding work!
February 6th, 2010 at 10:38 am
@Bill: His spine was healed, he had a broken leg off Island (due to the fall) and since he was being shot at (and since you drive automatics in the USA) I think he drove with one good leg (and poorly since he crashed moments later).
February 6th, 2010 at 10:40 am
@Yann – Didn’t John want help standing up and Christian wouldn’t do that as well? I trust your memory more than mine.
@Gary – I am a bit confused what do you mean the scene was shown twice when they landed in 1977? Why at the beginning of the episode and the end?
@Bill – Only one leg was broken, so he could use a cane with the cast, though he was in a wheelchair sometimes as well.
Note to self – Find time to rewatch Season 5!! I only had time to rewatch the last four episodes.
February 6th, 2010 at 10:40 am
Did anyone notice when MIB/Locke ripped off the piece of tapestry and cleaned off his knife. Was this the same bit of tapestry that Ilana’s crew found stuck to the wall with a knife in Jacob’s cabin in season 5? She takes it off the wall and declares that Jacob had not been there in a long time- and I remember wondering why the fabric was affixed to the wall as a message. Hummm, I guess I will have to rewatch that episode!
February 6th, 2010 at 11:14 am
@Carol: Yes, indead. And yet JohnMIB (John/JohnX/JohnMIB… that is insane) helped Ben out of the Smokey cavern with a rope. I wonder… maybe he knew he was about to kill Jacob when he was John in 2007 and did not fear anything while back in ??? when he tricked John playing Christian he feared that interfering would lead to a punition from Jacob. (All of this is boggus I think but if the writing make a mistake I will come up with the most stupid ideas to help them get away with that… I am warming up)
February 6th, 2010 at 11:43 am
Questions (Apparently) Answered:
Who is the Man in Black?
Where do the Others get their ninja skills?
February 6th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
@Yann – I am not convinced that Christian is Smokey. Jack saw Christian and hadn’t been “scanned”. I remember smokey in the pilot but I don’t remember it scanning Jack for memories, just killing the pilot. Has Smokey ever Scanned Jack or Sawyer?
Remember the horse that Kate saw? Why would smokey manifest into something to comfort her? I wonder if the island has the power to manifest people or animals, or if this is only a Jacob or Smokey power.
Another puzzle is in the episode “The other woman” when Goodwin’s wife appeared to Kate to give a message from Ben. How did she get a message from Ben, who was isolated at the time? I also wondered if she was actually alive since Juliet seemed very surprised to see her. I still wonder why Juliet didn’t give all her “other” knowledge to Sawyer when they were together.
February 6th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
I was talking about Desmond earlier today, when I had a thought:
Being Scottish we kept a close eye on Henry Cusick’s portrayal of Desmond early on in Lost, and we were surprised that he used the term “brother” regularly. Seemed strange given that it’s rarely used over here and Henry Cusick is Scottish. When they gave him the monk backstory it made sense of course. But in LA X he refers to Jack as “mate” on two occasions. This had us nodding in approval as it’s much more common here, but it occurs to me that this could well be another one of the “changes” in the divergent time-line. Perhaps this Desmond was never a monk? If the H-Bomb went off in the 70’s then Ellie wouldn’t have made it off the island, and wouldn’t have met Brother Campbell – we don’t yet know about their connection but it may well involve Desmond in some way.
Anyway, just thought that this was a minor allusion to a possible change in the timeline that people might not notice!
Here’s a creepy fact for you all as well. Henry Cusick has a son called “Esau”.
February 6th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
@Carol from Boston
I’m also not convinced that Christian is a smokey manifestation. His body never showed up, and as we know from the Locke-corpse, smokey leaves bodies behind.
I think Christian came back to life and is actually wandering around the island in his own body. I wouldn’t be surprised if we got a flashback showing Jacob visiting (and touching) Christian.
February 6th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
@ Yann & Carol – It was always assumed that certain individuals had mixed feelings about leaving the island. Principally Kate, being a fugitive and Locke because he would be back in the wheelchair. When was Locke told his “gift” was permanent?
February 6th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
@Aaron: Wonderfull post about Desmond… Him not being a monk would be quite interesting (how did he met Penny then? unless he knew she was the love of his live and so skipped his first “wedding/going priest” thing). Esau Cusick… Not that common that’s for sure!
Yemi’s corpse was missing from the plane just before Smokey appeared through this form and telling Eko he is not his brother (before that he mostly appeared as dreams)… It means that either he hides the body so that no doubt can comes to mind about his “fake” identity or sometimes he doesn’t.
@Bill: Kate wanted to leave because she likes to be on the run. She even still another person passeport and fix it for her to make it back off Island. While Locke who was looking for a “Walkabout” and “Orientation” found all that on Island and thought he should not leave, not due to his legs but due to the way of life that was offered to him. “Don’t mistake coincidence for fate”. His back was fixed after a crash and he now had the life he wanted… fate my friends? MIB made sure he did not think it was coincidence!
February 6th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
@Bill, imo I don’t think Locke would have left at all but he was told that only he should turn the donkey wheel to make the Island stop skipping and time and bring everybody back to the island. Fake Locke told Richard to tell the real John Locke that he had to leave the island and bring back his friends and “die” in order to help everyone.
Somebody please refresh my memory, how did Ben and Locke find out in Season 4 that they had to save the island by turning the wheel. I think it was Christian and Claire at the cabin with John right? He told Ben and Ben said it that it had to be him that turned the wheel instead of John as a punishment because once you left the island you could never come back. Is this correct? I haven’t seen that episode since it orginally aired.
February 6th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
I don’t know if anyone posted this but…
What if when Juliette said “It Worked”, she meant she was able to get pregnant on the island….
February 6th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
@ Carol & Aaron
I concur that the apparition of Christian is not Smokey–EXCEPT when he shows up to convince John to turn the frozen donkey wheel. I recall the ghostly sound effect that accompanied his entrance. In addition, the fact that Christian refused any assistance indicates that Locke needed to do this of his own free will and this somehow is in accordance with the rules by which MIB is bound.
@Carol
Perhaps I should have read down further. It was Christian who told Locke that he needed to move the island and then Ben ran with that further instruction.
@Aaron. Great, great note about the mate/brother difference, my kinsman. I’ve always thought Desmond’s accent was a bit off (unlike the girl he stood up for Penny) and wonder what you think about that.
@Yann
How do you explain Dave? There’s no way smokey could have been in possession of his body. I’m not sure how much smokey needs bodies so much as he needs access to scanned memories to work his magic. This may explain why he kills the first member of any new party to arrive, a la the pilot and (?) French girl besides Rousseau.
So many great posts! I salute you all and can’t wait for the new podcast tomorrow.
February 6th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
(Great work with the comments guys. I think your gonna be giving Ryan & Jen A LOT to read through this year)
I am fairly confident the LA X reality will be a reset that occurs following the events of the series’ main reality (oceanic crash – oceanic 6 – time loop – final S6 battle etc)
One of the main things I like to hear from these podcasts is to know what facts the creators have given us and what they have said. In this regard, some of the answers they gave on Jimmy Kimmel are probably quite relevant (“Walt & Michael not on plane – intentional”)
The cracked window glass beside Jack in the opening, and the cut on his neck, I would say are tiny remnants of the realities being reconciled/reversed.
Also, the very interesting Jorge Garcia podcast (in which they analyze the script pre-shooting i think!) mentions that in the shot with Jack on the plane, the look on his face is meant to be of ’strange familiarity’ or something along those lines.
Q/ Have the creators confirmed that ‘the purge’ was to be seen in the finale or towards the end of the show. Because if so, I would be very interested how this would occur
(i had always imagined a purge being, all of our losties dying on the island, so that they could re-exist within a new, corrected reality)
February 6th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
The differences on Flight 815 (now and then) are obvious and intentional. Something or someone changed the past. I always wondered where Farday and his female assistant/friend time-traveled to and if they altered anything on their trips. The experiences messed him up pretty badly and put her in a coma.
February 6th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
@Carol and Rich: Of course Ben used the “turning the wheel” and we saw why at the end of the episode where we see him of Island: Vengence against Charles Widmore and killing his daughter. Until then he didn’t want to leave his position as a leader but it was “the shape of things to come”… Ben would kill because he thought things were not right.
@Rich: Yes and he gains access to the dead body memories also (as he told Ben in this episode). Now why he tried to play Dave to kill Hugo seems more evident than ever… When did Hurley get scanned? And when did Kate got scanned (due to the horse)… I would say back when the Monster tried to bring Locke with him at the end of season1. We saw in last episode that he seems able to “flash” and “fight” simultanously
@Retrojunkie: We saw the Purge at the end of “The Man Behind The Curtain”… The Others used the Tempest gaz to kill all the DHARMA folks.
February 7th, 2010 at 3:59 am
@Rana
Yes, i know we had scenes showing the Purge. I just wouldn’t have been surprised if we experienced the events in an even more immidiate sense.
For a good period of S5, I felt our losties would experience the purge first hand and have their lives ended during it (so as to provide conclusion to a time-loop in which they can not ever meet themselves post-crash… anyways that was just a silly theory)
February 7th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Okay the house is empty, I am finally home so I am going to rewatch the episode again and then listen to the podcast, I couldn’t download it earlier.
I am so excited to have the opportunity to watch the show without interruptions. This isn’t always easy with 3 kids.
February 7th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
@Ilias
I agree, I noticed the S2 folks were notably absent from promos, etc..
February 7th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Did anyone catch the annoucement in the airport for passengers for the São Paulo/Brazil flight? Perhaps a reference to Nikki and Paulo?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:30 am
After watching the premiere again, I still wonder about the “goodness” of Jacob since his followers are so violent all in the name of being the “good guys”. When Hurley and Jack etc. showed up at the temple the others were willing to shoot them no questions asked, and beat them for no reason. Only people on Jacob’s list will be spared, and if you aren’t on that list, they don’t think twice about killing.
I don’t know if it is really all black and white. Some of smokey’s actions are bad, yet he has let people go. Plus fake locke’s final remark of “I am disappointed in all of you” means something.
It will be interesting to see where this story goes.
@Aaron- I didn’t catch the “mates” I did hear him say “brotha” at the beginning which made Jack look at him again.
February 8th, 2010 at 5:00 am
@Carol, hah, thanks for that. So much for that theory!
February 8th, 2010 at 5:34 am
Wow — almost 400 entries — thought I should contribute again to that — I hope that the character of “Kate” can gain back some of her self-respect this season — she has always been one of my favorites, and I noticed that she gets bashed quite a bit on this site — and while I am very sad for Sawyer, I personally found Juliet extremely annoying, suspect, and self-serving, and am quite happy to take a break from her —
February 8th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
I am rewatching this episode tonight. Anyone know why Jack’s neck was bleeding when he went into the bathroom on the plane?
February 8th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
@SM I believe that will make sense towards the end of the show. I’m fairly sure they’ll make a show of him getting a neck wound, and we’ll suddenly click that it’s carried over into the divergent universe.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:12 am
@greenberry – I agree. Hopefully Kate will stop running from everything.
@Aaron – Yup, makes sense. Poor Jack and Ben and Sawyer spend 90% of the show bruised and bloody.
February 18th, 2010 at 11:40 am
Way late to this party, but just had a thought about the name of the episode (not sure if it’s been mentioned here before as I haven’t read all comments). Remember what Daniel said when he was hatching his plan to detonate the hydrogen bomb: x=variable and the variables are PEOPLE. So, LA X could be understood as LA Variables. Hm…