At the closing thud, Jen proclaimed “Jughead” her favorite episode ever. While I’m nowhere near ready to bestow that crown, I’d certainly agree that it was a fantastic chapter in “LOST.” And, like many Desmond-centric outings, probably a pivotal one. So many threads connected, such satisfying epiphanies, I imagine “Jughead” reaffirmed the loyalty of sometimes skeptical fans. Revisiting the lines alone make my brain tingle. “I assume you’ve come back for your bomb?” “Put the gun down, Widmore.” “If you don’t believe me, come and visit me.” And “You are my life now… you and Charlie.”
It was Locke that sent Alpert to visit him at birth, and as a small boy? Awesome. Though if Alpert did indeed keep that compass to show young Locke, there are some space-time knots to untangle. Widmore as a young, somewhat daft Other? Fantastic. So does he fall for Ellie, and do they conceive Penny? Who is Mommy Widmore, anyway? And yes, it seems all but a given that Mrs. Hawking is Faraday’s mother (as tonight solved the “how could Ben be visiting her in London” questions). If so, it’s a building non-surprise that is probably the only thing that disappointed Jen tonight. They could surprise us, but I’m just hoping it’s not as drawn out as, “It was Michael on the freighter!”
That Daniel confessed his love for Charlotte was sweet, but it was also obvious things weren’t going to go well for them. I was more struck by how Desmond paused when the Oxford clerk asked him what year he visited. It was more than a simple case of forgetting, I think, which is admittedly understandable if you’ve been unstuck in time. I think he used to know, but realized at that moment that he forgot. Just as Charlotte couldn’t remember her mother’s maiden name. The harder Desmond insists he won’t go back to the island, the more likely that he’ll have to.
Theresa was an interesting development. Obviously, Faraday turned his purple lamp on her and dislodged her brain in time. But why is she still alive, and why is Widmore invested in her survival? And the fact that her name is Theresa takes us back to the recently referenced vision Locke had of a bloody Boone reciting her name, “Theresa falls down the stairs, Theresa falls up the stairs…”
The absence of the Oceanic Six in “Jughead” was conspicuous, and frankly, refreshing. As with last week’s pairing, it was clear tonight that the best stories are on the island. But now I fear a future episode will be spent entirely off island. I love Hurley, Ben, Jack, Sayid, and Kate, but I think the “LOST” creators were right when they said the fans would revolt if they spent all of Season 5 trying to return.
Notes & Notions:
- Is “Jughead” what’s behind the Chernobyl-like concrete Sayid finds below the Swan? It’s a distinct possibility. But the Swan was tapping a massive magnetic force. Unless “Jughead” caused it to develop, it seems like a pretty unlikely spot to bury a hydrogen bomb.
- The show isn’t even sheepish anymore about showing us redshirts that invariably meet an untimely end. Two more are dispatched within a minute or two of us asking, “Who are those guys, anyway?”
- Ageless Alpert remains a mystery. “He’s always been here,” Juliet says. Yet, he seemed pretty baffled by Locke’s time travel explanation.
- Locations: St. Andrew’s (Oxford), Honolulu Brewing Co. on Queen St. (Theresa’s home exterior), Manoa Valley Inn (Theresa’s home interior), Keehi Boat Harbor (seaside village).
What did you think? Join the conversation below and share your thoughts, as we’d love to include them — along with our more detailed analysis — in the next podcast. Please post a comment here, send us an e-mail at lost@hawaiiup.com, or leave a short voicemail on the LostLine at (808) 356-0127 by Friday, Jan. 30, 2009.
Jughead’s Time Police was a series that began in 1990 featuring Jughead as a hero of the 29th century and a member of the Time Police, an organization that ensures history to remain the same for the future’s sake. In this series, the beanie gives Jughead the ability to time travel by thinking. With his supervisor, Marshal January McAndrews, Jughead repairs disturbances in the past.[3]
(Thanks to Wikipedia…)
I am not sure if I should have posted it now or after…but it gives you something to think about during the show…..
He is the description of the show…
Upon receiving a special beanie from an unknown benefactor, Jughead gains the ability to travel to the past and future at will. Joined by Deputy January McAndrews (Archie’s descendant from the 29th century), Jughead travelled across history, ensuring that history stayed on its proper course. Paradoxes and existential dilemmas were often plot developments. The main villain was the time-travelling sorceress Morgan le Fay, who may have been a descendant of Reggie Mantle. Jughead has a secret love interest in Archie’s descendant January McAndrews.
Is this the referance to Jughead??? or is there another one?
Again sorry if this should have been after the show.
Just a comic series..not a show. My mistake there…can’t wait till the episode.
Also jugheads real name was Forsythe….
Meaning…
Scottish “Fear” meaning “man” “Sith” meaning “peace”
Desmond means “Man of the World/Peace”
Ok ok ok …i will stop now.
I was watching the rerun of the lie and I think I just saw the actor that plays Walt in a Tyson Chicken commercial. Did anyone else think that was him?
Hi!
The woman that is chasing Faraday around with a gun is Naomi when she’s young!! He says she looks like someone he used to know and she greets him with “oh you again?”
What do you think??
Wow, that was a fantastic reveal on Charles Widmore!
Widmore is really a hostile! I have a theory that Christian Shepherd is like Charles Widmore and was also one of the Hostiles!
Great show keep up the great work!
I think that the Theresa in this episode is the same one referenced by Boone when he said, “Theresa falls up the stairs, Theresa falls down the stairs.” I have no idea how this would be possible, but I think the name cannot be coincidence.
Also, he named his son Charlie!!! Just made me smile.
Laura, I don’t think it’s Naomi… I think that’s Mrs Hawking. Check out their hairstyles (very clearly shown in last week’s second episode). She’s about the right age as well (maybe slightly younger than Widmore) and if that is Faraday’s mother perhaps there’s a Faraday-Penny-Des connection yet to be revealed.
Hmm. Disappointing episode for me that did not live up to the spoilers which hinted it would be a real key episode. It asked more questions than it answered which is not, in my mind, good at this point in the story. Tomorrow I’ll ask all of the questions.
Ok….so jughead was the bomb.
I liked that in widmores office there was a painting of a polar bear and the word nameste on the painting.
Also a few things..
in last weeks episode where has suns accent gone.
Desmond named his son Charlie…..which Charlie is it…widmore or charlie?
That explains why Richard is seen showing the items to Locke and why he was present at his birth.
NICE
Ok, I know this is LOST, but don’t you think Widmore could have been a little more specific in his warning to Desmond? Something like, this guy has vowed to kill my daughter so you might want to go back into deep cover and start getting paranoid? I just think a little more info would be in order if someone was gunning for my loved one.
Anyway, enjoyed the episode. Especially the fact that Desmond barged in on Widmore and demanded some “ansas brotha!” and Widmore capitulated. Great stuff for a Desmond fan. Now I am already stressed out worrying about Penny who is on her way to Ben’s gunsights. Sheesh, and this is just episode 3?
The on-island stuff was quite good too. Loved Sawyer’s line about not having a secret language. Looks like this is going to continue to be a high adrenaline season.
Looking forward to the podcast as always, Ryan and Jen.
It was nice to see some things revealed and some questions answered. I really liked the addition of the Others speaking Latin. I was very interested when Juliet said that all of the Others had to learn it as “Others 101”. I wonder if they picked Latin since there’s not any native speakers of it left, and the chances of outsiders actually speaking Latin is pretty low.
I loved the Daniel-Widmore connection being revealed. The blonde girl with the gun looked like she was about 13 years old. Did they say her name at all? I figured that Widmore had been on the island at some point, but I certainly didn’t expect him to be a soldier with some serious neck snapping moves! I loved when he said that it wasn’t like the old man (Locke) could track him to the Others’ camp or anything, that was hilarious.
OK, since others are talking about the episode, here are my thoughts:
Each episodes ask new questions and answer ever fewer:
Who exactly are The Others and why were they dressed in army uniforms? Where did they come from?
Charles Widmore was a young “soldier” of the Others 50 years ago. How did he get to the island? and from where?
What happened to the bomb, aka “jughead” and how will it come into play in the “future” of the island?
What is the signficance that Penny and Desmond’s son’s name is Charlie?
So what really was accomplished by showing us what happened in 1954?
Theory:
The young English woman who held the gun to Daniel in the jungle is his mother. She has the same hairstyle as Mrs. Hawking who we all know now is definitely Daniel’s mother since Charles Widmore said she is in LA as we saw at the end of “The Lie.” When she saw her own son, she said “You just had to come back didn’t you.” So Mrs. Hawking was also once “an Other”, but just who are the Others?
So good. The writers did a great job with the latin, it makes perfect grammatical sense in latin too, which is incredibly impressive for a TV show. I love how everything is falling into place due to the island’s time traveling. that said, they killed Ginger, wtf. No good.
I like the theory that Hawking is Faraday’s mom.
And I think its supposed to be Charlie Pace, but its ambiguous, which is clever
I think this was a brilliant episode. I loved it. John Fisher, agree that Ellie is Eloise Hawking and that she is Daniel’s mother. She was an other with Charles Widmore. Wow. Not sure what it means but fascinating. So the US Army knows about the island and the bomb was burried and there is radiation down in the hatch…mayb the bomb is leaking the radiation and thats why the numbers have to be pushed to let the gases escape. Speaking of the bombs, all those little ones planted in the earth around the island. When someone steps on them, there is smoke. Hum..connected with smokey?
I loved that Des named his son Charlie. That was my favorite moment.
And poor Charlotte, looks like she is dead and gone.
These are just my initial thoughts…I’ll see what else comes to mind after sleeping on it! I love this show!
another quick question…I keep thinking about the photo on the desk with the monks with hawkings and to me looks like maybe an older faraday maybe? Michael faraday was once a deacon of a church. Was it revealed who was in that picture? Also who was in the picture was hawkings in the dusty room in oxford… I missed it.
Also how did Locke know a flash was coming and others didn’t?
Also, if Ellie is Eloise Hawking, that would explain the name of Daniel’s rat, Eloise. Good call on that one! I was left a little disappointed by this episode at first, but now that I think about it, we got a lot of golden clues!
According to the enhanced episode of “The Lie” aired January 28th (in the US), Mrs. Haking’s full name is Eloise Hawking. Daniel’s experimental mouse at Oxford was named Eloise. The young woman in “jughead” was called “Ellie.” She is definitely Daniel’s mother.
Also, if Ellie is Eloise Hawking and she is Daniel’s mother (which it seems apparent that she is), that would explain the name of Daniel’s rat, Eloise. Good call on that one! I was left a little disappointed by this episode at first, but now that I think about it, we got a lot of golden clues!
Good episode! Best thing about it, NO JACK AND KATE! They bring everything to a grinding halt.
I loved the episode! I think it definitely lived up to the hype. It’s amazing that there were only two characters in the whole hour that were in the first season. Just shows how this show has morphed into something completely different.
I like the idea that Ellie is Daniel’s mother. I hadn’t thought of that. At first I thought she might be the woman that was in a vegetative state in Oxford.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to the podcast as always! Thanks so much Ryan and Jen!
All the best,
Mike
Great episode. There has got to be more on the bomb right? Why have the episode Jughead where the bomb is not really a major character? Great to know Widmore was on the island when he was younger, as we suspected. Ben likely somehow outs him once he arrives and takes over. I think you guys are right, the young girl is Ms. Hawking. Could they be killing off Charlotte this soon? Also note that Locke told Richard when and where he was born, which is why Richard showed up to meet Locke, and had the compass!
Feel free to read my season by season recap/review over at http://www.davidrstorms.com (sorry for the shameful plug!)
I have to say that while this was a very good episode, I didn’t think it lived up to the hype that I had been hearing and reading about. Some were saying this episode ranked up there with The Constant, Through the Looking Glass, and all the other top episodes, but I just don’t see it. Maybe because I had all these great expectations in my head from what I had been hearing : ) Still great and enjoyable though. Still Lost!
I guess I hadn’t noticed anything about the young Others gal that held the gun on Daniel. Where are we getting that she is Mrs. Hawking? I think someone else might have pointed it out, but I thought she looked a lot more like the girl in the coma that desmond visited. Could there be a young AND old Mrs. Hawking both existing in off-island present?
Ryan…I don’t know if you read Doc Jensen’s columns, which are fantastic, but if you did a week or two ago, you must have grinned. His first big theory of the year that he shared with readers is that, in last season’s finale, when claire tells kate, “don’t you dare bring HIM back”, she is refering to the dead body of Locke. Also, from Something Nice Back Home, when Hurley relays dead Charlie’s message to Jack that “you’re not supposed to raise him Jack”, Jensen postulates that the him that shouldn’t be raised is John Locke, as in from the dead. This is a great theory, but I happened to be listening to your podcast from last year’s season finale, in which you had the exact same theory! Maybe Doc is a Transmission listener….or maybe great minds just think alike : )
Locke- Widmore ? Charles Widmore.
Widmore – yes
Did anyone else give the obligatory Homer Simpson,” D’oh! ”
Stupid Sawyer, that guy can not hit the broad side of a barn ! Since season 1. But he is full of great one liners so we will let it go.
How far has this series come? Do you realize that there were only two characters in this episode who ever appeared in season one? Sawyer and Locke. Amazing!
As for the others being “soldiers” and dressed in army uniforms, I believe they just took those from the US Soldiers they killed. They showed most of them with bows and arrows at the creek and only Ellie had a gun, the rest still had their original native weapons, the same ones they killed Frogurt with. The others are the natives to the island, and just take what they can get from whoever shows up on their island.
Okay, I didn’t see anyone else mention this, so I’ll just toss this in. Richard Alpert is throwing me for a serious loop. Before, I thought the key to his not aging was that he was sort of “unstuck” in time like Desmond was, only different (if that makes any sense.) Now, we find out that when the island flashes, so does he. So he actually has some sort of constant linear progression – he just doesn’t age. Honestly, time traveling made more sense than just a man who doesn’t age. I just don’t know anymore! What do you think?
Great episode — I wanted it to go on and on for hours. The plot has really taken off now, and anyone who continues to seek “answers” is missing the point. The Big Picture is being filled in from the edges.
Two observations: I really hope Damon & Carlton aren’t planning on making the Desmond & Penny Story a tragedy. Please, guys, this one love story deserves to be a happy one. And do ya think a buried hydrogen bomb might have something to do with the final episode of the series?
BTW, Cathy, my wife thought that was “Walt” in the Tyson commercial, too. I wasn’t so sure.
some have suggested previously that maybe widmore left the island by moving the frozen donkey wheel. now that we have seen him on the island, this seems like a better possibility…except for this question: how would he get to it? a couple decades later, chang/halliwax/candle & company can hardly come within 20 meters of it. is there another way to access it? or is there another one somewhere else on the island?
It is the actor who played Walt in the Tyson commercial and as you can see he is a very tall and muscular lad now.
Just curious for a little info,
I noticed in the music during the conversation between Desmond and Penny near the end that the piano line hits a same progression that can be found in the middle of Elton John’s “Funeral for a Friend (Love Lies Bleeding)” What I don’t know is if that in itself was a lift from a previously recorded piece (Maybe I should check in with Jimmy in Seattle!)
Also, I’m starting to wonder if Penny’s actually manipulating Desmond psychologically to find Faraday’s mother (dig the Ellie/Eloise theory, that rocks!). Penny appeared to want him to end his search, but when he finally says to her that he’ll forget all the memories, she responds “”You’ll never forget it Des, so I guess we’re going with you.” Something’s up there, that my fragile little mind can’t comprehend right now. Lost I go…
Alright, awesome episode! Nice little tick by throwing Widmore in there, so i have a few questions in reference to that. What do you all think happens between 1954 and the purge (where i presume widmore lost his power, if he had any at that point) that causes him to later tell ben in season four that it was his island. And also, do you all think penny was born on the island? I believe she was due to her lack of a mother figure. Anyhow, great podcast, keep it up! =)
It seems as though Alpert is stuck in a kind of Bill & Ted loop. He must keep history going so that it doesn’t get messed up. Locke is important to Alpert in some kind of a time sense. Alpert giving Locke the compass is like Future Bill & Ted saying to Present Bill & Ted, “Don’t forget to wind your watch!” After all, we know that Alpert is present at Locke’s birth, and visits him a few years later to test him. In 1954, Locke tells Alpert his birthdate, which occurs in two years. This is so that Alpert can keep his role as a Jughead Time Police Officer, by ensuring, after every go-round, that he gives Locke that compass.
Fantastic episode. Loved it. A few thoughts:
– Desmond should NOT, under ANY circumstances, take Penny and Charlie to LA. Ben is in LA, and any meeting between him and a member of Charles Widmore’s family (particularly Penny, but anyone would do, I’m sure) is all but guaranteed to end badly for the party opposite him.
– So Alpert went to meet young Locke because old Locke told him to. How trippy is that?
– Finally, I’m beginning to wonder if Daniel’s first/only flashback, of him crying at the news of the Oceanic crash, might not be as firmly placed in time as it appears– particularly so if Jen’s theory of the Last Scene of Lost has real potential. If this takes place in the future, Daniel may not *remember* why the crash would effect him, but he would certainly *know* (somewhere in that crazy brain) and probably react to it. As his pre-Island timeline expands (now we have the whole incident with the coma girl to consider) it’s harder to fit an institutionalized Dan into the mix; much easier, maybe if this occurs in the future.
What do you think?
I think it’s clear that the H-bomb is buried under the future Swan Station. Recall Jack and Sayid crawling below and coming across a cement wall more than 10 feet deep. Sayid says the last time he saw something like this was Chernobyl.
Great episode! A few notes:
– I watched the enhanced version of “The Lie” as well and it pretty much spelled out for the audience that Eloise Hawking is Daniel Faraday’s mother, unless they plan on throwing us a double swerve. As noted, ‘Ellie’ did have a hairstyle similar to Ms. Hawking. If they plan this to be a big reveal, I think they need to be a little less zealous during the ‘enhanced’ episodes – even though it was telegraphed last week.
– What would be more tragic than Penny and Desmond’s story ending with Penny’s death is if Penny is manipulating Desmond. It did seem that Penny was giving Desmond some of Ben’s “Make them think it’s THEIR idea” form of manipulation. However, it’s too early to tell, just like it’s too early to make a judgment call on the nature of Sun’s conversation with Kate last week.
– Richard Alpert’s agelessness is now an even bigger mystery than before. I thought it would be neatly wrapped up as part of the time travel theory but it appears it hasn’t. Would love to hear you guys discuss this more on the podcast!
– I think Charlie Hume is definitely a reference to Charlie Pace. So far, all of the castaways who’ve made it off the island have exhibited symptoms of survivor’s guilt and I think that’s a nod in Desmond’s direction that he too feels he needs to return to the island and rescue the ones left behind. Maybe Desmond is feeling guilty over Charlie’s death and wants to make his penance by rescuing the others, in the same way Michael felt guilty over the death of Ana-Lucia and Libby.
– I don’t think Charlotte is dead. I’m not going to spoil it for those who skip over the previews at the end of the episodes, but something tells me she isn’t.
– I too saw the Tyson’s commercial and I do believe that was Walt. I think I may have just found a new “LOST” snack!
Can’t wait for the podcast, guys. Great episode!
Great episode. Loved the details like Charlie being Desmond and Penny’s son. Jones really being Charles Widmore. Locke telling Richard Alpert to visit him after he’s born.
Glad I was wrong on it being the future, but still wonder what the rules are if Locke is able to kill someone in the past. Unless, of course, the guy he threw the knife at in “The Lie” did a Mikhail and didn’t really die.
So, the woman pictured with Desmond who is in the “coma” is time-skipping too but she’s managed to stay alive all that time. Does she have a constant or has Widmore been paying the expenses in order to discover a cure from the death by nosebleed?
Another juicy episode. Loved Sawyers, “What, you told her?” line and Miles’ “I fine, too.” They are definitely the kings of the one-liners.
Haven’t seen this out there yet, so I will pitch it to see where it lands: What if Widmore and Hawking were married or “together” and Penny and Daniel are siblings or at least half siblings…hmmm? It would make some sense as they both seem to be Others on the Island at the same time and would explain why he is funding Daniel’s research. Also, a falling out between Widmore and Hawking could have created a rift in the Others that provided the opportunity for sneaky Ben to make his power grab and caused them to take sides. Ben is obviously on the side of Hawkings who may have even helped him dethrone Widmore….hmmm.
Loved that Des & Penny named their boy Charlie. Seem to be lots of little Losties running around now…Aaron, Ji-Yeon and now Charlie…who’s next? And will be see them grown up in the future at some point?
Richard Alpert is becoming my favorite Lost puzzle…Juliet seems to know something about him, but in traditional Lost fashion, she doesn’t go into any detail about why he doesn’t age. One thing we learned tonight that surprised me is that the Others were not in on the time traveling properties of the Island. Richard seemed genuinely stymied by Locke’s story of time travel and meeting him in the future…or is he just pretending not to know? Hmmm.
Great episode glad to get some answers,
I think will Ben became leader of the others instead of Widmore which started the battle for the island.
Mrs Hawking will prob end up being daniels mom but i think it could be a bluff as they seem to be leading us to belive this.
I agree with Jen mostly, though I think The Constant still marginally beats it. But that just shows that Desmond is a corker of a character. I teared up when he said the baby’s name was Charlie. I hope that was a way for the writers to remind us about Charlie and assure us they’ll get back to that vision of Desmond’s. Sometime.
I love Ellie as Daniel’s mum, especially when she says ‘not you again’, it makes a lot of sense though, if they’re related and have some kind of connection there.
And though I almost expected the Widmore reveal, it was nice they covered it up with the surnames on the Army uniforms, which implies the Others are either using aliases (he called the other one by the surname on the uniform – Cunningham, but Richard didn’t call him ‘Jones’).
Really great, and definitely looking forward to the rest of the show, though I share some of Ryan’s concerns that this means we may get a fully off-island ep to make up for not showing us the Oceanic Six this time around. There really wouldn’t have been time though.
Most of all, I feel so bad for Daniel. Maybe that’s why he was crying at the start of S3… I can’t wait at all for next week’s.
oh, and as a ps. a lot of young Brits go over to the US to au pair for families, I guess that Theresa could have done that and then gone back to work for Daniel. Or that she’s unstuck in time, but not in a deadly way. Her sister said she thought she was 3 one time, etc etc
Many people are assuming Ellie knew Daniel. The statement she made when they crossed paths initially was in reference to the soldiers who had arrived recently. If she knew him to be her son, when they were alone she would not have continued to threaten him with the rifle. I believe her to be his mom and I believe he recognized her. However, I don’t believe the recognition went both ways because Locke recognized Richard but Richard did not recognize Locke.
Did anyone else notice that the actress (Mary Ann Taheny) who played the desk clerk at Oxford (she told Des that there was no Faraday in the computer) was the same actress who played the gate attendant in Exodus Part 2 (Hurley gave her a hug when she held the plane for him)? It is probably just one of those “we needed an actress who can do an English accent” issues and is not suppose to be the same person- but… this is Lost and you never know.
Robert,
I think you’re right about Ellie’s line “you just couldn’t stay away, could you?” I don’t think she recognized Daniel for the reasons you explain. She believes he is the leader of another group sent to the island just like the soldiers who apparently The Others wiped out. I suspect that soldiers arrived and set up their hydrogen bomb. At some point The Others found out, attacked them and killed them. The Others then stole their uniforms and moved into their tent city. The Others like to move up to a new neighborhood. After they wipe out Dharma years later they move into their homes and use their goods also.
Anyway, having wiped out the soldiers, The Others are on the look out for more who would be searching for their missing soldiers. This is why they attacked the 815ers on the beach and then attacked Sawyer and Juliet and later Daniel et al. It was interesting to note that The Others didn’t set up the booby traps. Apparently the soldiers who set up the bomb did, presumably to protect it and themselves from the indigenous islanders. So, when Ellie speaks to Daniel, she’s assuming he’s the leader of the second wave of soldiers or scientists sent with the bomb.
I do, however, suspect that Daniel recognizes her as his mother. It’s interesting that he didn’t try to tell her. She probably would have thought he was crazy since apparently The Others have no knowledge of time travel, at least back in 1954.
So, it seems Richard does not bounce around in time. He lives a very linear life. His visit at Locke’s birth and later when Locke is young is because Locke told him to do it. Clearly, though, Richard doesn’t age. Why? Do the rest of The Others age? I didn’t see any older people in Richard’s group, but later we meet people like Mr. Friendly who is older. Apparently though, it’s the island that keeps them from aging, since when people leave they do age, i.e. Ellie and Widmore.
I still believe that The Others may be the crew of the Black Rock hence Widmore’s great interest in it and painting of it on his wall at work and at home. Once they arrived on the island they ceased aging as long as they stayed on the island.
Oh, and I suspect that Mrs. Hawkings’ interest in time travel and physics which she apparently passed onto her son, is because when she was young she ran into a group of people who claimed that they were bouncing through time and whom she saw disappear right before her eyes.
-I don’t think the bomb is in the Swan station. First of all, why would the others, who have control of it, give it to the Dharma Initiative – their mortal enemies, to build a station around. Second, Dharma didn’t arrive until 20 years after that episode, don’t you think the others would have tried to bury it like Daniel said or get rid of it some other way in that time. Lastly, Dharma was there to study the unique properties of the ISLAND, they could have built a hydrogen bomb anywhere in the world and done stuff with it there.
-I don’t agree with the guy suggesting Richard is in a time loop. As it appears right now, his story is completely linear… he stays on the island with the other others after Locke disappears, as he told John when he took the bullet out of his leg, “I didn’t go anywhere, you did”, and presumably after he gives Locke the compass he stays in that same spot too and moves in normal time, we just don’t see his perspective.
-I don’t think the compass would even be in a never-ending loop either, because we assume its something Richard has had his whole life that will make him believe Locke is from the future. So, when Locke came from the future in 1954 and gives him the compass, does the one he already has just disappear? I don’t think it would, he would probably have 2 compasses at that point that are identical. So then he goes on having 2 compasses for 50+ years until he arrives at the plane to take the bullet out of Locke’s leg, gives Locke the original compass that he has had his whole life, and continues on past that point with the other. That’s all theory of course based on the assumption that it would create 2 compasses when Locke brings him another from the future.
– I don’t think the Losties going back in time is changing the past. I think it really happened that way the first time around. They are actually there in the only ever incarnation of that time(even if the actual year is before they are born). If the rule that Faraday explains to Sawyer in the premiere is that you can’t change the future, then you really wouldn’t be able to change the past. I think Richard always really did see a time traveling person come visit him in 1954 and give him that compass and tell him he was his leader in the future, and then disappear right before his eyes in the tent. That’s why he went and visited John as a child. The guys who Locke killed really did die at that point in time by time traveling people from the future throwing knives into them, there is no evidence that prior to this they had lived longer and had a lasting impact on anything that happened. I also think that’s the real reason Locke and Sawyer weren’t able to shoot or kill “Jones”/Widmore. He had to get away because he exists in the future in London, and is the reason the Losties are where they are now by sending his team and making Ben turn the wheel. I still don’t see any paradox’s in the story (yet). Daniel going back in time and meeting what many people including me assume is his mother is NOT a paradox. Him going back and killing her, even though we know that she later gives birth to him would be, and THAT is what couldn’t happen. If they were able to go back and make things happen differently it would create multiple alternate timelines and universes, like what happens in Heroes, which the producers make fun of all the time for messing up time travel.
Excellent episode, but I wouldn’t rate it in my Top 5 best.
First time poster (long time listener to the Transmission- best podcast out there Ryan and Jen!!) so I will share a couple of things that are rolling around in my clogged mind:
I am starting to think one of the reasons Ben brought Juliette to the Island was because he was obsessed with having a child concieved and born on there. Richard told Locke on last nights episode that they have a very specific selection process for choosing leaders and it begins when they are very young. Ben knowing this to be true perhaps thinks that the next leader could/would be born on the island and he can raise the child himself. Since the Others have not been able to have a child concieved and born on the island, Ben had his people take the child Losties just after the crash (including Walt) This would also explain why he took Alex from Danielle and raised her. My guess is that the Lostie offspring (Sun and Gin’s baby, Des and Pen’s baby, Claires Goober) are going to factor into all of this more heavily in the future.
I have a theory that at some point during the Dharma Initative they trained the Polar Bears to turn the frozen donkey wheel. They were training them in the cages, where Sawyer and Kate had been kept, to problem solve for fish shaped biscuts, polar bears can handle the cold of the chamber, have the strength to move the wheel and most importantly when we first met Charlotte she was at a dig in the Tunesian desert where they had unearthed a polar bear skeleton with a dharma collar. Training the bears to move the wheel would allow the DI to move the island as needed without sacrificing a human member of their team. If this theory holds out, I would guess that the bears came into play after the purge, when Ben was leader. (Perhaps someone else has already raised this point)
Can’t wait for the next episode (one a week isnt enough!!) and will be excited to listen to your Podcast!
In watching over past episodes, I did notice one thing that all planes that crash onto the island share in common: dead bodies and drugs. Yemi’s body was brought to the island on his plane and had heroin on board. Oceanic 815 had Christian Shepard’s body and Charlie’s smuggled heroin. Whatever plane (Ajira Airways?) Ben and the Oceanic 6 use will have John Locke’s body and I’m sure that Jack will manage to sneak a few pills on board (Jack has taken downers before, which are opiates – same as heroin). It may just be an observation, or possibly a coincidence (are they really ANY coincidences on “LOST”?) but it makes me wonder about the ‘rules’ a little bit. Perhaps this is why John Locke needs to be brought back with the Oceanic 6, and why drugs also need to play a factor. Consider this theory:
In order to get back to the island, whoever is looking for the island needs to present it with an offering. Whether it’s a dead body for the island to raise, or a bad habit (addiction) it needs to cure an individual of, the island needs some type of offering to feed off of to stay alive, or a right of passage.
Alysen:
I think you’re right on target with the polar bears. I think Dharma did bring them, train them and even had, at least one of them, move the island and hence pop into Tunisia. When did that happen? How long was there between the time that Dharma arrived and built the stations and Ben arrived with his father? Could it have moved sometime in there?
I also suspect that The Others need to move the island to stop the US military from finding it again for their bomb. Maybe Alpert ordered Widmore to turn the wheel, but wasn’t it buried until Dharma found it later? At some point Widmore and Ellie (we suppose) leave the island. Why? Maybe she became pregnant with Penny or Daniel and The Others know that no one can bring a baby to term on the island.
I think that there’s some tie in between the bomb, radiation, the sickness, women not bringing babies to term, the hatch with the blast doors, the need to push the button every 108 minutes (controlled release of energy?), and Sayid’s comment in Season 2 in the hatch about not seeing construction like this since Chernobyl. How that all ties together, I can’t even guess.