Trans 2009-02-01: “Jughead”


This episode of “The Transmission” takes a look at the third episode of Season 5, “Jughead.” We recap the story in eight nine minutes, then spend some time discussing it in greater depth. Then, we turn it over to You All Everybody, our brilliant listeners and readers. Then, in the Forward Cabin, we review what we know about “The Little Prince” and report on the last week of filming on The Island.

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  • 0:00:26 Introduction
  • 0:01:14 “LOST” in 8 Minutes
  • 0:10:31 Discussion
  • 0:26:43 You All Everybody: Feedback
  • 1:02:27 The Forward Cabin
  • 1:06:25 Closing

Got a comment about something mentioned in this podcast, or about the podcast itself? Have at it below. Otherwise, we encourage you to continue the larger listener discussion about these first two episodes on the previous post.

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28 Responses to Trans 2009-02-01: “Jughead”

  1. Nancy says:

    Yeah! The Podcast is up. Now my week is complete. Thanks you guys. You are the BEST!!!!

  2. MJ from Midwest says:

    Jen, hope you are feeling better.

    Guys, we WANT you to go to Comic Con, so I’m okay with your need for sponsorship and will click, click, click. I can’t even begin to imagine what D & C will present between S5 and S6.

    Excellent recap in just over 8 mins. Really love to HEAR the excitement from other lost fans, and READ the blog comments. Sometimes I think we take 4 steps forward and 8 backwards, 15 steps forward and 16 steps backwards, 32 . . you get my point.

    I’m going to join Ryan right away and say that Season 6 is my favorite season ever! I flashed-forwarded and left a note on my bedside table “ISLAND IS STILL HERE!” so now I’m in my happy place.

    I think for me an episode of LOST is never over until I hear the closing theme music from the Transmission. Sell the ring-tone. I would love to have that ‘ring’ when my lost buddies call.


  3. Iwantdesmondshair says:

    Hey Ryan and Jen,

    Brandon from Massachusetts here, I wanted to say thank you so much for discussing my JACOB theory in this weeks You All Everybody. You guys have the best podcast out there and I really appreciate the time you take to connect with your fans.

    Ryan, to answer your question I like the adaptation of my theory that JACOB might be a code word the various leaders of the island use to deliver significant messages. The way we saw Locke time traveling in Jughead really makes me believe that at some point the “directions from JACOB” were actually from Locke or one of the LOSTies. It just makes sense to me that someone who always knows what needs to happen next would be someone who has done some time traveling, even if they can’t control the time traveling (e.g. LOSTies). Who knows guys, I just have a blast thinking about the show and then tuning in!

    Great podcast as always, and amazing feedback. Is it me or did a lot of people have incredible ideas this week? I guess Jughead was just that good of an episode, so inspiring!

    Till next Wed, stay LOST

  4. Deevo from HI says:

    I wanted to comment on something that I heard on the podcast; Ryan and Jen you both said that you would probably buy into the fact that Charlotte might be Ben and Annie’s daughter rather than Widmore and Hawking’s. If Charlotte is Ben daughter why would he try to kill her in Season 4? I don’t recall what episode it was, but as they were walking through the jungle with Ben as a prisoner, Ben grabbed Carl’s gun and shot Charlotte in the chest. Fourtunately she was wearing a bulletproof vest….wait…..did she know that was going to happen? Did someone warn her of that event…..Danny Boy??? It didn’t seem that anybody else on the science team was wearing a bp vest? Why would she……aw…I don’t know……Let me know what you think.

  5. Michael281 says:

    I’ve heard the idea about the island’s time displacement accounting for its physical motion, but that doesn’t hold up well if we accept the findings of Galileo. 🙂 The Earth isn’t the center of the universe and it’s moving around the sun. If the Earth moved when the island jumped in time, the island would end up in deep space, wouldn’t it?

    Deevo : I don’t see a problem with Ben shooting Charlotte. You’re assuming he knows who she is. I don’t have much trouble imagining scenarios where he’d be as surprised as her if it’s revealed that they’re related.

  6. Deevo from HI says:

    Michael281: Thanks for the response; the thing about it is that we really haven’t seen Ben not have an idea of what’s going on or not have the upper hand or have some kind of plan up his sleeve (except for when Alex was shot and taking orders from Ms. Hawking). Ben has always been on it as far as the goings-on on the island….he even knew a lot about Charlotte…..her full name, where and when she was born and when she went to school/college, etc….. I guess Ben might not know about Charlotte being his daughter and man wouldn’t that be a shocker for him!

    Also, aren’t most of the conversations taking place saying that Charlotte was in fact born on the island??

    And what in the heck is the deal with the name “Jeremy Bentham” for Locke!!!!! Could it have something to do with the acronim JACOB as in:

    Jeremy A_____ C_____ O______ Bentham?

    The one thing that is for certain is that LOST ROCKS!!!!!!
    “Multum in parvo” – Much in a small compass

  7. ManilaRaf says:

    Just listened to the new Podcast.

    I have absolutely no problem with sponsorship. As long as it helps you guys stay on the air, or give us the great coverage you guys gave us at Comic-Con last year, I’ll listen to anything and click on anything you guys put on the air or in the blog.

    It was great listening to and mulling over everyone’s theories. One thing I latched onto was the idea that Dan Faraday being upset when seeing footage of the 815 crash was in the future. I went back and watched the scene in Confirmed Dead. I think the scene was definitely in 2004. The news footage looked like breaking news footage as one would see on TV as something occurs. Not at all like an Air Crash Investigation show.

    I’m thinking Dan’s just in a depressed and agitated state overall. I’m thinking this was close to the time that Theresa got into the state that she is in now (Comatose/Consciousness Unstuck) and since he was very close to her he’s still feeling guilty and broken up about what he did to her as well as the fact that he left her. I’m also of the opinion that Widmore somehow got word to him that he (Widmore) was supporting Theresa and in order to keep her alive, Dan must go onto Island as part of the Kahana Expedition. Somehow, Mrs Hawking finds out that Widmore is using Dan in this way and this leads to her helping Ben in response.

    I’m not too sure about that last two parts of that theory, but I definitely think Dan’s upset, not in particular about the crash, but due to what happened with Theresa.

    (Just an aside, I noticed Dan’s caretaker wears a wedding ring. Not sure if it’s significant, but I only noticed it now).

    Happy Belated Birthday to Katie (the “voice” of The Transmission =) ). I hope you feel better soon Jen, although I agree with Ryan and say it adds an extra little something to the as always fantastic voice.

    Have a great week you two. Can’t wait for The Little Prince and as always, yours and everyone’s reactions to it.

  8. Berto says:

    Very cool how Miles can get his info from the dead just by walking over their bodies. I’m still waiting for Miles to walk over Palo and Nikki’s graves. That would be an interesting moment.

    I’m probably way behind on this one but I’ve been watching reruns and didn’t realize that Elizabeth Mitchell was in Frequency (a great movie about time shifting) along with Shawn Doyle (Jack Shepard from Eggtown) and her name was Julia. Very close to Juliet. She was also on a show called “Time of Your Life” and her character’s last name was Holloway. Very interesting.

    One more tidbit that I grossly overlooked until reruns. When Boone is calling for help in the crashed plane, he says he is a survivor of 815. The static voice on the other side says “There are no survivors of 815.” That one gave me chills seeing it was all the way back to season one.

  9. ManilaRaf says:

    @Berto: The static voice says something different from what you heard. Have you seen the Season 2 episode “The Other 48 Days”? You hear that radio conversation from the other person’s (Bernard’s) perspective.

    On the other hand, I got chills for the same reason when Naomi said there were no survivors & they found the 815 wreckage in Season 3’s “Catch-22”

  10. Tracey says:

    The voice on the other end that Boone hears is Bernard saying “We’re the survivors of Oceanic flight 815.” This is shown in “The Other 48 Days.”

  11. matt in connecticut says:

    I agree with ManilaRaf that the scene with Daniel crying was definitely in 2004 on the day that they found the 815 wreckage. The caretaker reacts as if it just happened that the plane crash was found and it didn’t seem like it was a tape of it he was watching or something. It definitely fits that Theresa’s sister says he moved to the states after the accident, and he probably got depressed after it and that’s why he was in such a bad state.

  12. Robert says:

    Loved the podcast, as usual. There was a point where u mentioned that Juliet may be traveling with the Losties because she isn’t anchored to the Island like the Others because she hasn’t been there long enough. But that doesnt explain why the passengers of the flight that were taken by the Others at the beginning of the show, i.e. the kids and the flight attendant, aren’t shifting through time as well. They were with Locke at the camp on the initial shift. So they should be shifiting thru time along with Locke. Just a thought.

  13. BeckyD says:

    I’m a fairly new listener, but if you have advertising opportunities–go for it! I’ll even click around on your sponsor’s sight. Plus, the world will be a better place if you go to comic con.

  14. Dan says:

    Hey, I was just listening to the podcast and you were talking about the bomb and why it may have been buried by the swan. I just came up with the idea that maybe the others, in order to protect the island, as a last resort decided to use the bomb as a tool. I kind of think the power source near the swan may be creating a worm hole in time or keeping the island stationary in an already existing worm hole. Maybe by Desmond pushing that button sent the bomb and having it go off would cause it to close and leaving the island where it is. Maybe the closing of the hole mixed with radiation (purple sky) has some side effects on the people of the island (minus the others) causing them to jump in time. What do you guys think? I’m sure there are a lot of holes in this theory. Pun intended. 🙂

  15. Kim says:

    Hi Ryan and Jen,

    Great observations as usual! Not sharing as much love for this season so far, however. It’s understandable why you’d love this season, for they are beginning to answer some questions, but as you cleverly pointed out in mentioning specifically the overuse of the “fake-out”, some of the writing is a little–I don’t know–predictable? It seems a little like “paint by numbers” to me. I also agree with that TV critic who called in, who by the way, didn’t comment that the story was confusing, but that it wasn’t emotionally resonant. I think I agree with that. So for now, I’m taking a wait and see attitude towards the season, hoping the writing will do justice to the payoffs we’ve been waiting for for years.

  16. ChiliDog says:

    I just finished the podcast and it was outstanding as usual. First time on the blog. I have several LOST observations.

    If we are dealing with competing sides then it could be possible that Abaddon is Alpert’s nemesis. Alpert aligned with Ben and his people and Abaddon with Widmore.

    The fuel for a nuclear device is a critical mass that designed in such a way that if the chain reaction is initiated, it is uncontrollable. The energy present therefore is really not able to be harnessed. Therefore while the bomb could theorietically open a wormhole, I highly doubt its ability to keep it open.

    I agree with the faction of fans that believes Annie is the mother of Charlotte. There has to be some reason why Annie has been hidden from us.

    As the series winds down, there should be less OMG! moments and some of the connections should become apparent as more is revealed. It seems as if some fans want the character revelations to be total surprises, but at this point, fans should not be surprised when any reveal takes place.

    By way of example, many exclaimed, “Widmore on the island?!?! Holy Crap.” Does not it make sense that Widmore has some island experience. Now there will come a day when it will be revealed why he is no longer there. Will those same fans exclaim, “Holy Crap, Widmore off the island!!?”

    One more thing.

    I am going on a limb to say that the wreckage of Flight 815 in the trench at the bottom of the ocean is not staged wreckage but the real thing.

  17. lara says:

    Podcasty-related question: When I listen to the Enhanced version of the podcast, I can’t menu-button back to the menu or even sleep-mode with the power button – it needs to black-screen itself naturally. If I don’t, the podcast turns off (fades like it does when you take call.)

    Am I doing it wrong? I like the enhanced version because I try live spoiler-free. Thanks.

  18. Mirepoix says:

    Remind me who are Abaddon and Annie?

  19. Berto says:

    Thanks to ManilaRaf and Tracey for clearing up my mistake. There is so much going on and so much to remember. Of course, the creators aren’t making it any easier!

    Something I’ve noticed with the Others. They found the survivors of 815 and let them know they meant business fairly quickly. They apparently found Danielle’s party and took care of them. They were quick to get Miles, Dan, Charlotte, Locke and Sawyer in the 1950’s, too. So why is it that the Dharma folks were able to build homes, stations, etc.? Didn’t Richard and his people notice anything? Ben was about 10 years old when Richard came upon him in the jungle.

  20. Greg says:

    Why is the compass causing issues for people? It seems fairly obvious and non-paradoxical to me. Who’s to say that Richard doesn’t come into possession of a compass sometime between 1954 and 2004? It seems more than reasonable that, over the course of 50 years, Richard could get his hands on a compass through some other means than having Locke hand him one. They aren’t exactly a rare commodity, especially for someone who can leave the island if he wants.

    For example’s sake, let’s say he buys it at an army surplus store in 1970. He then gives this compass to Locke in 2004, who travels back to 1954 and gives it to Richard. What happens to it in the 50 years that follow is really insignificant as long as he still buys it at an army surplus store in 1970.

  21. Ryan says:

    Except that means Richard will already have that compass when he buys it at an army surplus store in 1970. And if the timeline carries forward, each time, he’d have an infinite number of that one compass.

  22. Nate in Ohio says:

    Ryan & Jen, thank you for another great podcast! Let me add my voice to everyone else who has encouraged your decision to take on a sponsor. With all the time & energy you devote to bring all of us great enjoyment & happiness of the podcast, you deserve to be compensated in some way! I hope you are able to attend ComicCon again next year, and I will click on whatever websites I need to to help make that happen!

    I think I also agree with Robin the tv critic about emotional resonance. Don’t get me wrong, Jughead was great. But with the side-flashes this season, at least so far, I don’t feel as connected to any one character’s story. Take an episode like Walkabout, Deus Ex Machina, White Rabbit, The Moth, or Through the Looking Glass. Then again, the side-flashes probably are the necessary way to tell stories in Lost season 5, and as such, emotional resonance is divided between characters. Another point:I didn’t think of this episode as “desmond-centric” in the same way as i did in flashes before your eyes, catch 22, or the constant. It was more desmond-daniel centric. Still great, but on a different level.

  23. Greg says:


    That assumes that it continually goes back to 1954, rather than 1954 only occuring once and that Locke is always there with Richard in that one occurance of 1954. In other words, there was never a variation of 1954 where Locke wasn’t there. The only time 1954 happened, it happened exactly how we saw.

    That means, yes, there are two compasses in existance (although not an infinite number). This is much the same way as there were two #15 bunnies in the Orchid orientation video. Richard probably doesn’t have the compass from Locke anymore when he buys it at the store. He could have either lost it, or it could have been destroyed (not that unlikely considering the lifestyles of Others), or he could just not carry it with him. This would keep with the idea that Dr. Chang says the two bunnies can’t come in contact with one another. I personally like the idea that it was destroyed at some point before he acquires it again, because it means that there is no one point in time where it exists twice, but I don’t think it’s neccessary.

  24. ManilaRaf says:


    Abbadon: The Beginning of the End-“Oceanic lawyer” who sees Hurley in Sta Rosa, Confirmed Dead-Man who recruits Naomi to protect Dan, Miles, Charlotte, & Franks on the Kahana Expedition, & Cabin Fever-Locke’s orderly who convinces him to take a walkabout

    Annie: Man Behind the Curtain-Ben’s school age friend who gives him the small wooden doll as a keepsake.

  25. bluedog1121 says:

    I want to comment on the voicemail you received where the caller wondered if Ji Yeon has to travel back to the island along with the O6. I have a pet theory about that based on the Ajira Airways website, and the “game” where we all bought our seats on flight 316. (I know I’m not the only one out there who did this, right? 😉

    The number of tickets to purchase was 10 adults and 0 children. I think the 10 adults are Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley, Sun, Ben, John (corpse or not), Walt (who counts as an adult by this time), Frank, and Desmond.

    Also want to comment on those listeners who think that Charlotte is the daughter of Ben and Annie. I don’t think so, because Ben shot Charlotte in an episode from S4 that I can’t remember the title of (LOL), and also he knew everything about her (which I think someone commented on above). Ben knows 99% of what is going on around him at all times. If Charlotte were his daughter, he’d know. For sure. No question.

    I also feel like if Charlotte were the daughter of Annie and Widmore, which is another theory I’ve heard, Ben would know about it, and would have used that knowledge against Widmore in TSOTTC.

    My personal Ben theory is that he did have a relationship with Annie on the island, they may have even been married, and she was one of if not *the* first to suffer the effects of pregnancy on the island. So she died in childbirth, which directly caused Ben’s obsession with fertility on the island. This may also be the reason Ben stole Alex.

    Keep up the awesome work! 🙂

  26. Dave says:

    Just finished the podcast and I love that people have feedback on it.

    Deevo from HI: I always thought Charlotte wearing the Kevlar vest was something Widmore or Keamy’s crew would have insisted on. Maybe not. Maybe Daniel travels back in time to tell het to put it on to save her.

    I am not in general buying into the theory that Charlotte is Ben’s daughter. Nothing so far that I am aware of suggests this. The fact that she can’t recall her mother’s maiden name sounds like more of a setup for her to be the Leia to Dan’s Luke (not a fan of the idea, but I give credit to whoever caught that one). In fact, Widmore’s men (Keamy) killed Ben’s “daughter” Alex to ge to him, so why would he not have used Charlotte to his advantage when she was in his employ?

    ManilaRaf, I agree that Dan was likely watching breaking news in 2004. However that would be a nice callback to the Jin/Sun flashback/forward episode and an interesting twist if that was in the future.

    Greg, I’m with you on the compass thing. To paraphrase Ben Stiller in Meet the Parents, maybe the people at Samsonite in their infinite wisdom made more than one black suitcase. Having multiple compasses doesn’t violate the laws of time and space the way that two #15 bunnies or two of the same person does. Let me take this a step further… maybe you can have more than one INANIMATE object in time and space but not an animate or cognisant object.

    Thanks for the nods on the podcast. One last clarification, because Ryan seemed a bit confused.
    The “predestination” paradox says that people could move in time to alter the past or future, a la Donnie Darko (or, for Jen, 12 Monkeys). Since any individual exists only in linear time — I can’t be alive in both 1954 and 2004, but I could move between them — you can’t know what is predestined (fate) vs what is up to your free will. As some great thinker once said (forgive me, I think Hamlet), “thinking makes it so.”
    Since we only see time as linear we assume our actions are voluntary, not predestined, since someone going back in time violates our laws of physics. So you can alter the future by going to the past, but only in a way that history could transpire. You couldn’t magically stop a bullet but you could warn someone to wear a bulletproof vest, a la Doc Brown or Charlotte.
    The “grandfather” paradox would be if Locke killed Charles Widmore when Sawyer and Juliet had him… Widmore dies and there’s no Penny and no Des and 815 never crashes and Locke never does what he does.

    Hey, I also have one other crazy idea… I think maybe the old lady at the end of the first episode is Ellie, and maybe she’s Daniel’s mom! 😀

  27. says:

    Hi Ryan and Jen,

    Sponsorship is a great idea. You guys should cover your costs any way you can. If I remember correctly, when you first started the podcast you gave out an address for PayPal donations. I’m sure you could raise some money to cover your expenses that way too.

    Thanks for the great podcast. Yours is the best out there.

    Best Regards,

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