We’re spent. It may just be the shock of the final reveal (and the exploding and disappearing and everything else), but I’m putting this season’s finale as the best yet. Oh, there was a big giant Pandora’s box or two opened, and the requisite handful of new nagging questions, but in terms of delivering a dramatic punch, a full sprint of plot and action, and major pointers as to the mythological direction of “LOST,” we couldn’t have asked for more. Every strength of the show was serviced tonight, and the only downside to this high is the inevitable crash tomorrow. We’ll have to wait more than seven months to pick up where we left off.
And I do think we will move forward, now, from the near present. Perhaps even the true present. (No issues with Walt’s age, now.) Mr. Bentham’s ominous tale of how things went south on the island after the Oceanic Six escaped perfectly sets up the island as flashback territory… the clever inverse of the first three seasons. But I’m getting ahead of myself.
Ben turned the wheel and moved the island, a mind-boggling action that also comes with another rule: whoever invokes the measure of last resort “can’t” return. We also know from his arm injury that he goes straight from the deep Earth chamber to the desert of Tunisia. We see how the Oceanic Six come together and get off the island, and also the setup for their return. We see Sawyer sacrifice himself after a smooch that no doubt gave shippers a thrill, but we also see Desmond and Penny reunited — the kiss of the whole show, bar none. And we finally learn who was in the coffin.
Jen is immensely relieved to learn who was in the coffin. She demanded to know, out loud, every ten minutes during the last hour of the finale. Considering that Season 1 left us looking down a mysterious hatch, even I was convinced until the very last moment that they just might go there… the just might leave us hanging. And we both wouldn’t have guessed who Mr. Bentham turned out to be.
Jen’s also convinced that Jin is dead. I have to admit, it looks pretty dire. He does have a couple of things going for him, though. One, Sun is convinced enough of his possible survival that she’s going to engage in some pretty big corporate shenanigans with Charles Widmore. Two, just like the three gunshots that were supposed to have robbed us of Jin, Sayid and Bernard on the beach, I don’t think any “off-screen deaths” have really stuck. Hell, on-screen deaths don’t stick. (At least Keamy’s sudden reappearance got a token explanation.) With Locke apparently going back as carry-on luggage, after all, his story is obviously not done. Look at what happened with the last person Jack transported in a coffin.
For all the big details, though, it’s the little things that made tonight’s episode so satisfying. The way the episode opened at the exact moment Season 3 ended (tires screeching with the quick fade to black). Hurley’s awkward greeting for Jack, and real gratitude to Sawyer for coming back for him. Locke’s confidence with Jack (“Just watch what I’m about to do”) but befuddlement with anthuriums. The way Michael released Jin to be a father, and the way the island finally released him. The way Ben… did everything, from referencing time-traveling bunnies to the utterly cold way he reacted to dooming the freighter. Miles’ scolding from Rose, and cryptic message for Charlotte, who almost instantly becomes the new character whose story we’re desperate to hear.
Too many great moments to mention. With our minds spinning, we’re simply reduced to bullet points.
Notes and Notions:
- The conversation between Jack and Locke goes to the very heart of the overall “LOST” story arc. If you haven’t recently revisited the conversation mentioned tonight, from the episode “White Rabbit,” you should read it again. And remember, that was Season 1, Episode 5.
- What is Sun up to? Helping Mr. Widmore, or duping him? The why, at least, seems pretty clear. But she’s right, the Oceanic Six weren’t the only ones that got off the island. And joining Ben in the bonus set are Frank and Desmond.
- Locke’s pseudonym off island was Jeremy Bentham. Philosopher, yes. Also a guy who willed his body to be put on display. It’s still in a glass case at University College London.
- Hurley’s mention of Mr. Eko was a nice touch, because I do sometimes get the sense that there are parts of the show’s past that they’d rather we just forget.
- The moment you heard Sayid’s voice at the car window, you knew that guy was toast. And of course his time of death was 8:15.
- More Sawyer nicknames, from “Sundance” for Jack to “Kenny Rogers” for Frank. And… shirtless on a beach with a pretty lady and a bottle of rum? It’s fanfic time.
- What happened to Daniel and his boatload of socks (or redshirts or background)? Are they stranded? Or, since “Alcatraz” apparently went with the main island, could they have gone along for the ride as well?
- Jack officially has a musical motif (along with Kate’s Patsy Cline). His last drive to the funeral parlor showed us his appreciation for “Nirvana.” Tonight, he rocked his way out to the big reveal with “The Pixies.”
- Yeah, so that was the “Frozen Donkey Wheel.” Ha ha. How literal and clever! Can we go back to metaphors for the next big twist?
A year ago, when we were similarly left stunned by the Season 3 finale, I wrote: “Suddenly I’m willing to entertain even the most ridiculous, crack-pot theories. Because I have no idea where ‘LOST’ will take us next.” I am still happily along for the ride.
And Jen wrote: “Season 3 of Lost, to me, is one of the best seasons of television ever.” And Season 4 tops that.
I wonder . . . when Charlie told Hurley to tell Jack that he’s “not supposed to raise him” . . . maybe he wasn’t talking about Aaron. Maybe he was talking about Locke, as in “raise him from the dead.” Locke could also be who Claire was referring to when she told Kate, “Don’t you dare bring him back.” Hmmm. (Though I’m actually half convinced that that wasn’t really an apparition but Kate’s subconscious.)
And Ryan, wow, your post on this episode was brilliant. I’m amazed you can be so articulate that soon after watching the show. Hats off!
One detail I thought was very interesting was the introduction of an update sound design. Upon return from the commercial after the helicopter went down, a new instrument is suddenly introduced: bells.
The bells sounded like those bells you hear in Eastern Asian music, something you might hear in a Buddhist temple.
I wonder if this was done to portend Season 5’s potential island flashback? A mystical journey back to the island’s genesis? How appropriate.
Not only are this show’s visual amazing, but the sound is simply awesome. Kudos Lost, kudos.
I liked it but for some reason it wasn’t my favorite. So we all know the island has healing powers…hence Locke being able to walk. How does this translate to him leaving the island like Ben did? Once he’s off the island is he back to being paralyzed? Why is that coffin so darn short?
The only problem I had with this episode is that it marked the point where the show is 2/3 of the way done. As great as having an endpoint is for the plot, I’m not sure how I’m going to handle the end of such an amazing show.
In terms of who is on whose side, I’m a bit confused. The caller in Kate’s dream, Ben, and Locke all seem to want the six to return to the island. However, Claire seems to think that taking “him” back would be a mistake. Can we take Kate’s dream at face value, or is it simply her own conflicted subconscious?
I can’t wait to see the solution to Charlotte’s puzzle. Her background seemed straightforward enough when Ben tells of her British history and being the youngest of three girls. I love Stacy NC’s theory that she might not age.
One of the most telling moments for me was after Sawyer leapt from the helicopter. Lapidus comments that the fuel situation was dire, unless someone else wanted to jump. We get a quick view of Hurley, but more interestingly, Kate gives Jack a long look. It’s as if her view of hero and responsibility have been shaken by Sawyer’s act. It pays off for the characters, too. Jack is doomed to an obsessive compulsive addict’s life, while Sawyer gets the blond on the beach with the rum. Yo ho ho… 🙂
What a long wait we have. I’d love it if this site hosted a lost-related book club during the hiatus. Can we start with the Dark Tower?
It takes the excitement of a season finale to bring me out of lurking.
Why can nobody say Locke’s name in the future? I’m reminded of the Harry Potter books where Voldemort can sense when somebody says his name. Maybe saying Locke summons a squadron of Oceanic and Dharma goons.
In the first season, I thought we would need to wait until the end to get resolutions to Sayid’s search for Nadia, Sawyer’s search for the real Sawyer, and island escape — then Desmond’s reunion with Penny seemed years away. I love getting these anticipated points covered so the writers can take us somewhere new and unexpected.
PS: The shot of the empty chair where Hurley can see Eko but Sayid can’t … very similar shot to an empty chair where Ben can see Jacob but Locke can’t.
Hurley’s ghost-seeing ability has made me wonder if Dave was a ghost haunting Libby (explaining why he only showed up when Libby was nearby).
Two season finales without a Hurley bird! But at least the tradition of using ancient dynamite in the finale has been replaced by massive amounts of C4.
Aloha!
Back after a bit of a blog hiatus and all I can say is… Wow.
I have a few questions — appreciate any answers.
– Why didn’t Locke just put the friggin’ heart rate monitor on himself as Keamy was dying and save the people on the boat?
– Maybe it’s old news but did anyone notice the additional footage during the 8-9 hour? Jack names the nine people who “survived the crash.” The podcasts had mentioned this but the footage was inserted back in after being cut at first.
Jiller, I do like the theory about Widmore having been Ben’s predecessor, which would explain his desire to get back to the island.
My theory is that once Ben gets off the island, Locke gets more or less “exposed” as not as wise as they thought he was. (Kind of like in the episode where Alpert goes to see him as a kid and is disappointed after he selects the knife after a proising start to the Dalai Lama game.) They might learn that Sawyer actually killed Anthony Cooper, for instance. I wonder whether Charlotte isn’t his successor. After all, things go “horribly wrong” and she’s more adversarial toward the current Others/Losties than anyone except maybe Miles. Or maybe Miles is the successor, given his “special” talents?
The gash in Ben’s arm/freezing/Halliwax parka suggests that he leaves the island after moving it and winds up in Tunisia. However, in “The Shape of Things To Come” it is 10/24/05 despite his turning the donkey wheel 12/04. Hmmmm…
I hope Jin is still alive. So sad. I’d love to see more of Daniel too. There is an implication when Walt sees Hurley that Michael is still alive as well… not sure why else he would feel that “protecting them” is so important.
One last question regarding getting back to the island.
Jack wants to go. Kate does not.
Hurley is convinced by Sayid, who is working in concert with Ben.
Aaron probably doesn’t have much say. Neither does Locke. 😉
Sun is now trying to coerce Widmore to help. Whether she’s working as a double agent, I don’t know. But Widmore hates Ben and vice versa, so for Sun to collaborate with Sayid they are either being very deceptive, or she’s playing Widmore.
Sun implies to Widmore that they know that other people got off the island. We’re talking Ben I assume, and not Des.
Sun also holds either Jack or Ben (we think) partly responsible for Jin’s “death” (or at least being left behind).
I’m very ucnclear as to how we’re going to get these six (seven plus Locke) unified to return to the island.
I LOVE the survivor guilt/monkey’s paw complications though, and I hope to see much more of Sawyer/Juliet/Jin/Daniel et al.
OMG! Great episode! I don’t know how anyone can say it was ‘good but not great’. The writers answered the majority of the questions we have been asking all season. And it wouldn’t be Lost if they didn’t give us enough information to make us ask new questions for next season.
I cried during 3 scenes:
– Sawyer jumping from the helicopter. He has done a complete 180! Is this the same guy who was hoarding all the medical supplies and guns just a few seasons ago? LOVE HIM!
– Jin’s ‘death’. I really hope he is not dead! Can’t wait to see how this unfolds. I definitely think Sun is going to use Widmore to look for Jin.
– Desmond and Penny’s reunion. I did not expect that yet! I’m glad we were thrown that morsel tonight.
I think Locke ended up in the casket because things had gone so terribly wrong on the island and he had to move it again, therefore never being able to return. Didn’t they say that they thought ‘Jeremy Bentham’ had killed himself? (In the Jack and Kate conversation in the beginning of the show?) If that is the case, I think Locke would have killed himself for 2 reasons.
1) Hoping to get back to the island (spiritually). OR,
2) His grief over never being able to return.
Loved Sawyer’s nickname for Lapidus…Kenny Rogers. LOL!
Oh my goodness! I loved it! My daughter woke up four times while the hubby and I watched it in tape delay, so I had to stop it a lot. I need to watch it again without any interuptions. iTunes here I come. 🙂
Loved Desmond and Penny together. Now he will protect her for the next two seasons. 🙂 That was romantic perfect, splendid. I didn’t expect that until two more years!
I think Jin could still be alive. Dove off the side of the frieghter, to be picked up by Danial Faraday and the raft full of red shirts (or log carrying guys and gals), and searching for the now moved Island.
And the last person who moved the island, the one from whom Ben learned that little secret, was Witmore. I think he was the “one” before Ben, and something happened necessitating the saving of the Island. But my big question is, once you’ve paid the ultimate price of moving the Island and being “banished” can you come back home again? Because as much as I hated Ben in the beginning, and still think he’s a selfish bastard, I want him to be reunited with the Island in the end.
Thanks for bringing this podcast back. You were my first podcast ever, and it feels like visiting friends each week I download a new show. 🙂
One more quick thing. Did anyone notice that… if I’m remembering correctly… that right after Kate went in to see Aaron (after the bad dream) and she was saying sorry to him, then the camera zoomed in on Aaron, and the flashback sound played… and we were back on the raft about to get picked up by Penny. So that segment was technically an Aaron flashback.
I just thought that was interesting.
Wow, what an episode! Just watched for the 2nd time and it was even better (and I cried more, go figure…). My random thoughts:
-Dave @ “Why didn’t Locke just put the friggin’ heart rate monitor on himself as Keamy was dying and save the people on the boat?” EXACTLY what I was yelling at the tv last night, lol! I don’t get it either. Maybe this is the foreshadowing of Locke being not too bright which leads to the horrible island stuff to come 😉
-I think the other person Sun blames for Jin’s “death” is Jack…he tells Ben this in the last scene.
-Sawyer’s sacrifice was awesome. Has anyone found a clue as to what he whispered to Kate?
-Maybe the horrible stuff that happens next on the island is caused by the time-space-whatever-shifting (ie. Desmond’s crazy spell) and not Locke & the Others, Miles, etc. Just a thought. I really hope we don’t see anymore of our losties die.
-Didn’t expect the Desmond/Penny reunion at all! Soooo good. They probably won’t be trouble-free for long, but we got a bit of a happy ending there!
-Sun is becoming such an interesting character. I wonder if Jeremy/Locke actually told her that Jin was alive – presumably he would know one way or the other – and this has strengthened her resolve to get revenge, find the island, bring her father down, ???
-Don’t want to wait until Jan 🙂
Wow! So Claire, who might be dead and who surely has the pulse of the Island now warns Kate not to bring Aaron back, while Ben, who we’ve come to know as someone who really does know a lot of the Island’s secrets, says they all have to go back . . . interesting.
I have to admit, when I initially heard the name “Jeremy Bentham” in the episode I said – well the person in the coffin must be John Locke! Makes sense, right? But then got away from that and right before Ben showed up I was convinced it was Ben – should have stuck with my initial gut feeling – my major in political philosophy can’t steer me wrong!!
OK – this is just a completely nitpicky thing, but it kept bringing me out of the episode – as the mother of a new baby, I have to wonder HOW IS AARON EVEN ALIVE?? No Claire – no milk. Even assuming they have “Dharma formula” on the Island – they sure don’t have it on that boat they were on for a week! I know this is one of those things that doesn’t matter in the show – and I’m sure its just my “new mom” status – but it kept bugging me!!!
No way Jin is dead. They would not kill a major character like that. Especially Jin, he would need to have something as dramatic and heroic as Charlie’s death. Plus, Faraday should arrive just in time to pick him up.
Lindsay-I think it’s a pretty safe bet that Sawyer was telling Kate something like “I have a daughter. Her name is Clementine. She lives in New Mexico (?). Please see that she’s taken care of.” Or something to that effect. This is the favor she was doing for Sawyer in Something Nice From Home that got Jack’s tail in a knot.
Absolutely delightful finale! Couple questions/thoughts
Why did hurley lie to walt about his dad. Desmond knew that micaek went up with the ship and so hurley had to know.
How could Locke be killed unless the island was done with him? Guns don’t work if the island needs you alive!
Long wait for next season
Great finale. How are you possibly going to do a “Lost in 8 Minutes” on this one?!!! 😉
Ryan and Jen,
Excellent summary as always. What a FANTASTIC finale! I couldn’t agree more.
But I have to apologize in advance to you all everybody because I don’t care if the site thinks I’m spam, I plan to post my little fingers off. I’m making up for missing the posting window for the last two episodes.
N
I agree that this was a great one…thank goodness since we have to wait forever for another.
littleimp / people wondering about Aaron – – OK – I’m a single guy and I have not a clue as to how long a baby would survive w/out mother’s milk….however…if Aaron is “special” in the “Baby Locke” kinda way perhaps he was suffering as Locke did as a child, but is unable to die.
Perhaps Aaron is the boy-wonder Richard Alpert and gang have been seeking and didn’t even know they were so close to finding.
Luke – also liked what you said about Walt and the reason he is “special” in perhaps another way than the boy/girl Richard & Co. look for.
Oh yeah –
paintergirl 1 – liked the book club idea. Perhaps could cover more books if people wanted to read different ones and post back thoughts / coincidences.
and….have we seen the end of Patchy? Is he gonna save Jin ya think? j.k….but I”m up for whatever! This is the best show eva!
Lot’s of great reveals in the finale…except where’s Vincent? Thought for sure he was the one in the coffin! (arf, arf).
There were a lot of great little scenes tonight but I think one of my favorites was Ben handing over leadership of the others to Locke… In this season Ben has in a weird way been a sort of mentor and almost a father figure to Locke, even though I guess he is younger. He’s never really given Locke his approval before, so it was sort of poignant to see him express confidence in Locke. I think the line was something like, “you’ll find your way, John. You always do.” You don’t see Ben hand out a lot of compliments, so it was pretty significant!
Can you do a double synopsis – 16 minutes and 8 seconds. Right at the beginning when Kate said “…after all those horrible things that happened,” I knew they were not going to make it easy on the viewer.
Thank you for not hurting Sawyer, for once!
Sayid was amazing during the fight with Keamey.
I think the most nervous I got was when I saw Jin running for the helicopter, the ship exploding, and poor Sun screaming and no one being able to do anything to change what happened, and then when the helicopter was going down, I really thought I was about to “lose my lunch.” Watching Jack, so realistically trying to find a deep breath, to resuscitate Desmond — man it would have really sucked if Penny’s boat shows up and Desmond is dead. I wanted Penny and Hurley to make that connection that Charlie helped in some way reunite her and Desmond. This part of the show is to be watched again. It’s hard on my emotional capacity to digest it all at once!
And, specific words are used, such as when Kate is running to Aaron’s room after the nightmare and apologizing to Aaron. I think because she really does feel she has to go back to the island and even considered not deserting Aaron, but taking him with her. But Claire didn’t say “Don’t go back to the island.” She says, “Don’t you dare take him back there!” Claire accepts that Kate wants to go back and specifies Aaron doesn’t go — he is where he is supposed to be, right? and notice that it is a DIFFERENT Claire than the Claire that was in the cabin.
Season 5 will not come soon enough!
I couldn’t agree more with the folks above regarding Sawyer’s departure from the helicopter. Love him or hate him, he’s become a noble and selfless person. My wife and I were almost in tears thinking about Frank’s comment that the could afford to lose a few hundred pounds and then seeing Hurley. The old Sawyer would have made a smartass comment. The new Sawyer jumps. Jack, in the meantime, refuses to do it because they “need” him — a fairly selfish conceit reierated by Locke’s comments to him at the Orchid.
I have a bad feeling about the next two seasons for John Locke. I think he’s going to be exposed as a flawed leader… as much of a psycho as Ben could be, he was determined and he had a plan and he didn’t let things or people get to him. Locke just doesn’t have that self-confidence and on the rare occasions when he does, people wind up dying (Boone) or screwed (e.g. blowing up the submarine). This is the guy who lost all his faith in the computer and the button and the hatch just before it blew… if it wasn’t for Des they’d all be toast.
1. I think Penny funded Sun’s purchase of the stock. I think this is one of the things discussed in the off-camera discussion that Jack asked for after Penny’s boat came to the rescue. (It’s unlikely that the Oceanic settlements plus Hurley’s lottery winnings would have been enough.)
2. Desmond’s vision for Charlie called for Aaron AND Claire to get off the island. Has this not happened yet?
3. Put together two ideas mentioned at various places: Charlotte is Annie and Ben’s daughter; Penny is Annie and Charles Widmore’s daughter. (Maybe Charlotte’s other sister was Danielle? –Perhaps Annie and Hanso’s daughter.)
4. Why was Hurley unwilling to use Jeremy Bentham’s “true” name, John Locke? Hurley had not shown anger at Locke during the Ben-John-Hugo trek to the Orchid. What did John do thereafter to concern Hurley? Is it related to chess (and Eko)? The numbers? And who ordered watch the clinic in which Hurley is living and where did Abadon want to take him?
5. What can the Oceanic Six plus Locke (dead) bring of value to the island? Why are all 7 necessary? If Aaron is the “special” one, isn’t he enough? Jack, Kate, and Sayid are not “special” — Jack wasn’t even on Jacob’s list….
I’m sure I’m missing what’s really important — Geronimo Jackson.
Just a side note…
Info on Abaddon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbadon
I don’t know if anyone else mentioned this, or if it holds up to scrutiny, but didn’t Sawyer’s conversation with Juliette near-perfectly reflect a conversation on the beach between a naked Sawyer and Kate inseason 1? Maybe Sawyer’s finally moving on and Jate will return to the island to find a Sawyliette?
Ryan,
Where would we be without your great commentary! The tremendous effort you put into researching and linking makes it possible for a simpleton like me to follow the plot even though I miss way too many episodes.
Anyone think that Ben’s line “Sometimes good command decisions get compromised by bad emotional responses” was a playful reference to the writer’s strike? Anyway…
Great, great episode. This had to be the best season finale the series has had thus far; each individual element that makes LOST as special as it is was represented. The action/adventure, the romance, the drama, the more sci-fi elements, etc., etc. Then again, everything I just mentioned was represented equally throughout the season. This had to be the purest LOST season yet in that sense, and definitely the best since season one. I remember watching “Walkabout” from season one and thinking “this is the show I have to watch!” just because of all the special moments in that episode alone. This season gave me about a dozen more of those same moments—Alex’s death, Desmond and Penny’s reunion, Locke in the coffin, the O6’s return, the helicopter crash, Ben and Widmore’s hotel confrontation, Sun at Jin’s grave, etc.
I’m rambling on, and I most likely don’t have anything much to contribute that hasn’t already been covered by the rest of you. However, I do believe in the theory that Jin hopped off of the freighter just in the nick of time. This might not be canon whatsoever, but when JJ Abrams was making the rounds for “Cloverfield”, Daniel Dae Kim had his DUI incident. One of the stops he made was the Howard Stern show, and when Stern asked if Kim’s character would be killed off this season due to the DUI, Abrams answered with a quick, decisive “No, absolutely not.” Take that for what you will.
Anyway, this has gotten long but I want to think you guys for the amazing podcast. I’ve been listening since the beginning of the season and I guess I’ve been spoiled a little too much because I can’t even listen to any other LOST podcast anymore—this one fills my need on its own!
Can’t wait for the next one. You rock, guys.
Kevin
It’s 4:42am here in England (okay, it’s 4:39, but it’ll be 4:42 by the time i’m finished with my post!). I finished watching the episode about 20 minutes ago and had to come here and see what you all thought.
I have to say, Lost isn’t the show it used to be for me – I really do think season one was the best season of television ever made – but in spite of its flaws, it can still be really great!
Yunjin Kim broke my heart tonight. The scene on the helicopter immediately after the boat blows up was just… yeah. She’s an incredible actress. I found tears in my eyes and a lump in my throat after that. Possibly because one of my favourite characters on the show had just been killed off. No, not Jin – I agree with all you who think he’s still alive. It’s funny that this is the second season he’s ending by jumping off an exploding sea vessel to an unknown fate – but Michael! The “Waaalt” business was annoying, yes, but for me, he was such a real character. And his story was incredibly interesting to me, and so so sad. “You can go now.” I’m quite disappointed that his story is over now, but I’m glad that it got a better ending than another of my favourite characters’, Rousseau.
I’m starting to think – like some other posters here – that the island hasn’t moved to another location on earth, but forward in time. The part of the Orchid orientation video when Halli…wax (geddit?) mentions that the bunny seems to momentarily disappear seemed very intentionally placed there. And the fact that the time travel chamber thing seemed to get its power from the frozen donkey wheel backs that up.
The time travel thing does concern me. My feelings are similar to those that Ryan expressed in the last podcast. I really hope that the end of the show doesn’t revolve around that concept. I recently played Via Domus, and there are things in that game (one specific thing that those who’ve played it will recognise) that gave me a sinking feeling in regards to that.
Does anyone else think that how Sawyer and Juliet ended the season was an homage to the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie?
Like last season, I guessed the final reveal long before it was presented. I’m really glad that it the episode didn’t hang on that this year.
One thing I didn’t like was the future corporate-Sun scene. It reminded me of the weaker parts of Alias, with very important people talking in very important tones about very important things. I hope there’s not much more of that to come.
I did like the return of the season two Others, with their whispers, shabby clothes and silent attacks/abductions. It seems like the “new recruits” as I’m thinking of them (i.e. Tom, Pickett, Ethan, Goodwin, etc) were dressing in costume to look more like the natives.
Was Cindy in that group of Others? I didn’t see her.
There are a few things niggling at me. Now that it seems like Claire is dead, what are we to make of Desmond’s vision of her getting onto the helicopter and leaving the island? Where did the entire room full of C4 come from, who put it there, and how did no one notice it before Desmond did?
My thoughts are everywhere, as you can see, and I’m sure I’m forgetting a million things that I wanted to write here.
All in all though, a really great finale. Probably my second favourite season-closer, behind Exodus.
Oh! One final thing that I loved about the episode, and it’s a really little thing that I only noticed because of the instinctual tug of sadness I felt when it happened: When the Helicopter was running out of fuel and they had to throw out everything that wasn’t tied down, Jack threw out his backpack! It’s such a small thing, and I was surprised it saddened me, but Jack has been lugging that same backpack around since early season one. It carried dynamite from the Black Rock (even though it was meant to be in Kate’s!), it carried countless bottles of water between the beach and the caves, it carried the medical supplies that he stitched the cut above Charlie’s eye with after Locke punched him. It really reminded me of the scene in The Lord of the Rings when Sam throws away his backpack while they’re walking through Mordor. The journey that started in Pilot, ‘Part 1’ is over now. He doesn’t need that ratty old thing anymore. He can just go buy a new one.
Dead or Alive?
Michael is dead. He was alive while the island needed him and the island “sent” Christian to say “thanks and you can die now”.
Jin is alive. At least I hope so. They had him on deck so that it can be plausible to have him survive. And I don’t think TPTB are in the business of killing major characters willy nilly. Many of the dead have asked to be taken out of the show and I think we have enough casualties for the season.
Claire is dead. I think the fact that she appeared to Kate, (even thought it was a dream) point in the dead direction. VERY interesting that the message was to NOT take Aaron to the island. If Claire had been sent to kate by the island, the message would have been the opposite so I think it was Claire herself in spirit.
Charlotte, Faraday and Miles…
WTF?
I’m thinking the zodiac must have been within “Island’s waters” and moved along with it, jut like Alcatraz. It seems kind of senseless to kill Dan… Then again the boat was full of red-shirts.
How did Miles know about Charlotte? Did he get a reading from her? From listening to the dead?
I bet anything that everybody and the mother are going to say that she is Annie. So then why would Ben not recognize her????? And why would she be “searching” for the place she was born ? Annie was old enough in Ben’s flashbacks so that adult Annie would remember.
And why did Miles want to stay? Is he just loving them dead voices that much or is there another reason?
One thing I’m certain of.. The secondary protocol was NOT Keamy’s plan to kill everyone as some people assumed. It is probably how to move the island or even if it’s not that specific, it at least refers to some plan of last resort. Keamy looked it up so he would know where to find Ben, because Widmore would have assumed that Ben would have to execute the plan of last resort. So Dan’s warning to Charlotte was due to the fact that if the plan was executed they would not be able to leave the island. And that was confirmed when he told her tonight that staying could mean forever. So Dan was not in on some nasty plan of Keamy’s when he recognized the Orchid station name in part one.
Sun and Jin. Yikes!
Sun’s pain was gut wrenching, YK was ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!
I’m definitely leaning towards Jin being alive though. So I’m still holding out for a happy ending there.
And I didn’t think that she was so mad at Jack this time around. I think that she is just in too much pain. Her loss is too recent. So even the week on Penny’s boat wasn’t enough to pull her out of the shock. I do think that it was deliberate on the part of TPTB to not have her attend Christian’s funeral. That leaves the does she/doesn’t she blame Jack an open question. But it in the end it might just be that she was too pregnant to travel.
The Widmore scene has me absolutely mystified. Up until then I was sure he was the “other person”. But if it was Ben instead, why pair up with Widmore? She has to be aware of his hand in the whole busisness. So can she hate Ben enough to overlook that???
When the scene started I thought it was Kate pulling a “Sayid”. Sun was a total surprise. Could she be setting Widmore up and is she working for Ben? I kind of liked the theory that was going around that the other members of the 6 had helped her with the company buyout. But her being willing to partner with Widmore rather than against him sets her apart from the others who are either pro-Ben or at least neutral…. So that kills that theory.
Extraordinary finale, the best one of the series!
This cliffhanger is going to bug all of us for the next 7 months. A few things people, this is “LOST” we are discussing, everyone keeps assuming that Claire is talking about Aaron when she said don’t you dare bring him back to the Island, we don’t know if she is talking about Aaron. Because, we know everyone that left MUST go back!
Another thing is when Sun, told Witmore we were not the only ones who left the island, I believe she was eluding to Ben, evident to the fact that she says to him, “we have common interests” Don’t think she is working with him as much as using him for her own agenda.
I am thinking Ben knows of some loophole in Island lore and his true agenda is to try to get back to the Island and helping the “6” attempt to do so is how this is going to happen. His specific words to jack were, “We are going to have to bring him back.” We… not… you!
Think Michael is dead, think Jin is dead, if I remember correctly the boat exploded right where he was standing if he survived that, they better have an excellent way of explaining it.
More to come….
Bobmotion (and a few others): It wasn’t that Hurley was reluctant to say John Locke’s name, but Sayid cut him off before he could say it because he said they were being watched and he didn’t want “them” to know who Jeremy Bentham was.
Topic for Discussion: Given Sawyer’s seeming change of character from selfish cad to selfless hero, when was the turning point for his character? What event precipitated this change for him? Was it the last time Kate walked out on him at New Otherton? Was it when he split with the beach group and came out from under Jack’s shadow?
Am liking the idea that Charlotte is Annie’s daughter, but who is the father? Ben? Widmore? Alpert? Maybe even Locke? Patchy?
Absolutely LOVED the coffin scene.
I was prepared to see Michael since his return on the boat was such a poorly kept secret I thought maybe this was as well. But the Jeremy Bentham on the first scene threw that out the window. As well as the freighter explosion.
The absolutely played us with Jeremy “Ben”thanm. And Sayid going to Hurley partly because he was dead. Then the “whoever moves the island can never return” deal. They kept pointing to Ben all night. But the moment Jack said something like “he said it’s my fault” I KNEW it was Locke. I had never, ever considered him. How did he fall from Jacob’s grace so quickly? And I don’t think it’s a twin. That would be too cheesy. (Although when Ben first popped in on Jack, I did think it might be a Ben clone) I don’t know. The brain is short circuiting on that one.
All I can say is that after all the speculation, I was so sure that this scene would NOT be the frozen donkey wheel. But it worked so well. It was so right!
How is Ben going to help convince Kate? If Jack end up party to one of Ben’s manipulative cons, I don’t know how Kate could ever forgive him. She has to be turned around in some other way or at the very least, if it is a con, it has to be very obvious that Jack had no part in it. That maybe he was too far gone to keep Ben from doing whatever. I don’t know. All I know is that if Jack manipulates her, there will be trouble in Jateland.
Is Jack THE chosen one?
I don’t know if the island knew this all along or if this has been one long job interview process for both Jack and John. But so many things take on a new significance now.
Why is Jacob taking Christian’s form? I thought that it meant that it was Christian that had a tie to the Island, not Jack. That being Locke’s contemporary, he might have also been monitored by Alpert as a child. And if there was any connection to his family for the future that it was all about Aaron. But is he taking Jacob’s form because of Jack? Does the island want to be father to Jack? Then why appear as Cristian to Locke? It has no meaning for him.
If the island is trying out both Jack and Locke, why did it bring in one father to be killed and then use the other as it’s envoy?
It looks like the Island does not know for certain who the chosen one will be but it tries out any promising candidate and the discards them when not needed. For example, it though Walt had potential but then decided he was too much.
It probably tried Widmore. Was he the last one to move the Island? Is that why he can’t go back? Is this banishment final or can it be overcome? It seems that both Ben and Widmore think it can. Maybe seeing their successor fail gives them hope.
Does this mean that Jack was also visited by Alpert as a child? What is the island looking for in a leader? It does not seem to pick particularly virtuous people. What makes someone special? Did it know beforehand that it wanted Jack or did it stumble across him? Maybe it realized that it had been looking for the wrong type of leader when it saw how Jack behaved? Maybe it is an indication that the island is trying a different kind of leader. A man with family ties.
Thinking about family, There is the theme that the Island tends to seek out orphans or children with absent parents, especially fathers. Ben, Locke, Walt, Aaron. So much so that it puts emphasis on them being able to turn against their father, even kill them. So is this a new approach? Jack does have father issues and he did stand up against his father’s malpractice. But as dysfunctional as Jack’s family might have been, he is far from being an orphan, and he loves his parents.
Could it be that ultimately the Island wants to take care of it’s people and both Ben and Locke got too caught up in their own egos and started caring for the Island and what it did for them more than caring for the people? Is there something to the idea that maybe the one who doesn’t want the post so badly is destined to make the better leader? Because he will not put himself first. This would fit in with the notion that Jacob is the collective spirit of its inhabitants.
Interesting that his name Shephard
Interesting that his father is *Christian* Shephard.
Interesting that Jack and John are the same name.
I don’t know what all these things mean. But it’s food for thought.
Sayid and Hurley.
Is Sayid being honest with Hurley? Where is this “safe” place?
It think we can pretty much guess that this is just an excuse to get him back to the island. That Sayid is working on Ben’s instructions.
Will he be convinced or conned into returning?
How will everyone else be convinced? Kate, Sun
What about Walt? Desmond? Do they also have to return?
Heck, what about Lapidus? Is he the only one of the 4 good freighter folks that won’t be back next season?
I also think we cannot OVERthink the plot of the show, REMEMBER until the end of last season the writers had no clear cut idea of how the show would end. So some things that were a part of it in the beginning fit to the storyline while others may not come into play anymore!
How does Locke fit into the small coffin? Was this just an intentional device to fool us or is something up?
Hey all!
Two things from me this week:
(1) It doesn’t make sense the Dan F would have been “zapped” to a new place with the island. He wasn’t part of the Island. The water didn’t go with the Island….so what would Dan and the rest of his no-name raft-mates?
(2) Why did Keamy’s transmitter work when he went to the drak depths of the Orchard Station? How on earth could a little transmitter like that get a signal from the Orchard Station to a boat that’s far off shore? I think the boat would have blew long before Keamy’s heart stopped beating….
Seven months and counting!!
There are some great comments here, this epsiode really got us all thinking.
One interesting note is that if Locke is dead then his time as the “leader” was relitively short (about 3 years). I get the impression from the scenes in season 3 that Ben assumed that role shortly after the purge and led for about 12-15 years. Since moving the island is such a monumental task it also is not likely done very often. Thus also not requiring a new leader to emerge.
The explaination may be that Locke died unexpectedly on an excursion or “business trip” on behalf of that group. The idea that he was killed by Sayid, Ben, Sun, or Widmore is possible.
It will be interesting to see how that played out on the island becasue Alpert’s group will either have no leader or they have replaced Locke with someone that we know. This may be a part of the bad things that went on in the 3 year gap that we will surely be slowly shown next season.
Enjoy the summer everyone!
Wow! That was the most enjoyable two hours of TV I have ever had. I just love the emotional rollercoaster that Lost takes us through, I went from shock to laughter to tears (happy tears and sad tears). No other television has ever managed to move me the way that Lost does.
I really enjoyed the rescue scene in the sea, it was very reminiscent of the raft ‘rescue’ scene with The Others in season two and had me wondering whether Mr Friendly was going to appear!
I also wanted to say thankyou to you Ryan and Jen, for keeping me entertained between shows and enhancing my Lost experience every week.
Roll on January!
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I think that Jin, is not dead and here’s why:
a) There was no scene of Jin right before the explosion. This deliberately leaves open the possibility that he had jumped into the water before it went off
b) The missing second island. That they made a point to demonstrate that it had vanished also opens up the possibility that people who were in the water could have also been transported with the island.
c) The Zodiac. The boat is in the water. If the boat (and subsequently people/water) were not transported with the island, then somewhere they have to be floating in the South Pacific and eventually found, whether dead or alive.
I think that there is far too much vague storytelling here to be able to say for sure he is dead, in fact I think it just indicates the exact opposite. The real story will be how would he fit into a future storyline and how will Sun find him. Does Sun try to team up with Widmore to find the island so she can learn of Jin’s true fate.
“I also think we cannot OVERthink the plot of the show, REMEMBER until the end of last season the writers had no clear cut idea of how the show would end.”
I think you are mistaken on that point. From some of the earliest interviews, the writers stated they had a clear outline for the entire story arc and that it was only the supporting details they still had to fill in for each season.
They certainly change their minds about thing. I read once where Jack was supposed to die after a few episodes, and that Ben was not supposed to be a major character. Still, I think they have the endgame mapped out and have since the beginning.
Hey Ryan & Jen-
It was EPIC. Completely, inexplicably epic- leaving us with a few answers and thousands of other questions (but that’s what I love about lost) So I have a question for you both: Why did it seem that Ben was willing to sacrifice everyone on the freighter so he could take avenge on his daughter’s death? At points he seems selfish, but this is almost extreme- why do you think he cares so much for Alex and greives so heavily over her death- could there be some connection to the island? Ben in emotional grief is almost as odd (and humorously refresing) as his refrence to those ‘Time Traveling Bunnies.’
Great, great podcast and keep up the fantastic work!
Lilly, 15, Hawaii
Connie in Alaska: Thanks for setting me straight. Regarding you discussion topic: It seems that Sawyer changed after killing the “real”? Sawyer, or after Hurley taught him to be a leader. I think he found that he liked people and that he actually enjoyed helping them–a new experience for him. It shows that he can learn in ways beyond reading books.
nerico: about convincting Kate to return. I think the key “person” may be Kate, who has already begun to work on Kate’s mind (albeit sort of backwards). There may be something regarding Aaron, one of the special children, that is relevant. Maybe Aaron does something himself that affects Kate, or his special nature becomes pivotal. Perhaps Walt gets involved. I thin-k several of the off-island special kids, perhaps besides Walt and Aaron, Sun’s new daughter? Maybe Penny’s child (coming?).
Indeed, I still think that Penny is the person assisting Sun’s new corporate moves. I don’t think Penny is likely to hide to avoid Ben’s attacks–she seems to be a “take-charge” type of person. Meanwhile, if Daniel Faraday makes it back to the island, as some are suggesting/predicting, he and his Constant, Desmond, may be able to communicate even from different time dimensions, to support the Penny/Sun cabal. Indeed, I think the series is going to move from a Daddy-centric set of drivers to more Mommy-centric ones — with key players including Annie, Penny, Sun, Charlotte, Claire, and Jack’s mom. Maybe even Rousseau.
The Santa Rosa scene with Hurley/Sayid gave me the impression that Sayid is NOT responsible for Locke/Bentham’s death.
Sayid came right out and said he killed the man staking out the premesis in the parking lot (so we know he’s forthcoming with grim information!), and it sounded like he and Hurley were both questioning the obituary info that L/B commited suicide.
Have Sayid and Locke had big conflict before? It would take a lot for Sayid to kill someone he knew. More than Ben telling him to anyway, presuming he’s still working on Ben’s orders.
ConnieinAlaska: Thanks for your response, it seems fairly certain Kate’s job has something to do with Clementine, I would just love to know exactly what! We’ll find out soon enough.