Trans 2010-05-24: “The End” (Series Finale)

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The end of “LOST.” Six seasons, over 120 hours, culminating in the two-and-a-half hour series finale, “The End.” We can’t believe we’re here. And we’re still struggling to process this final episode. This is our initial reaction “shortwave transmission.” But the full exploration of “The End” will come in our May 30 podcast. Please share your reaction and join the conversation by commenting below. Stay with us. Talk to us. Hold us!

Thanks to Jarred Matthes for allowing us to share his ‘ukulele rendition of Michael Giacchino’s “Life & Death,” originally recorded for the Geronimo Jack’s Beard podcast.

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1,260 Responses to “Trans 2010-05-24: “The End” (Series Finale)”

  1. Eko says:

    Yes the last episode was interesting and entertaining but it was not deep and meaningful, it was completely superficial. We responded to the filming and the lighting and the good music and acting but absolutely not the story, but I can see how its easy to get confused because of those things that the story was somehow more than it was. A deep story maintains focus and has an internal harmony and consistency from beginning to end. Lost couldn’t even maintain consistency for one season. The biggest problem this show had was a lack of oversight on the overall story arch or a lack of vision. There is a reason why tv shows like this keep disappointing because its about pushing the next shocker plot point for ratings and not about telling a meaningful story. Its important not to reward producers for something they did not do, which is deliver a solid story.

  2. Tawl says:

    @Michael J.. I have to agree.. I think the SciFi puzzles, questions, and teasers were created simply to expand the number of Lost diehard techie fans. Imagine if Lost played it real and truthful.. let us know upfront that this was only a fantasy, love, & character study.. how many of us would have stuck around for the final hugfest and walk into the light? The SciFi elements made Lost a phenom! And to say it doesn’t matter is like saying Star Wars would have worked equally well as a western… and The Beatles would have been just as famous singing opera!

  3. Steven in Bathurst says:

    Finally, a chance to post my thoughts. Sorry that this doesn’t reference the preceding conversation. I don’t have much time to spend on this. I thought the ending was exhilarating. It was the last ten minutes of Six Feet Under stretched over two hours. It was perfect in execution and incredibly emotional. Every time someone remembered their life, it was very beautiful. Jack’s death and the events leading up to it, mirrored in flash sideways (FSW) with his realisation of being dead, were wonderful. And off they went to heaven, I guess.

    If I had posted straight after I’d seen it, I probably would have waxed lyrical about it for a few more paragraphs. But it’s now been two days since I saw the finale, and as the emotion has waned and my brain has kicked in, I’m thinking ‘hang on a minute’. See, the ending is so great that you forget that the show doesn’t make sense and the FSW was just one big mis-direction. And that has left me feeling quite unsatisfied. Ultimately, the FSW had nothing to do with the island or its power. It seems anyone and everyone can create a place from which to meet up with their friends before entering the great party in the sky. In fact, there’s no reason why every show can’t end exactly the same way. The final episode of Gossip Girl could involve them all living an ultimate reality so they can meet up and enter heaven together because their time as stuck-up rich kids was the best time of their lives. Or think about how you might react to that ending if that ending was the ending to Seventh Heaven. All those conservative Christians meeting together to enter heaven together as a family. I don’t think we’d be seeing that ending in quite the same light.

    And then what is the FSW ultimately saying? Life doesn’t matter because in the end you can end up with your loved ones in heaven anyway? That seems to be the gist of Desmond’s sudden revelation after Widmore puts him through the electromagnetism. He even tells Jack that none of this matters because there’s a place where we can all be together happy. He is not afraid of death because he has seen heaven. It seems like such an anti-life position, which is in stark contrast to the fabulous and fascinating insights into the nature of reality that the show seemed to be exploring: good, evil, science, faith, philosophy and theology. It might have made sense if the island power created the FSW world so that our characters, who had given service to the island, were thus rewarded for their service by entering a special place in heaven. But that didn’t seem to be what they were saying at all. Some have speculated that Hurley had perhaps done that using the island powers but there’s really no evidence for that. And what of Kate, Sawyer and Claire? They left the island and presumably lived for many years. Why wouldn’t they have met other people and had meaningful relationships with them? Where would these people fit into the halfway house of heaven known as FSW?

    Then once you go down the path of dissatisfaction, it’s not long before you start heading into unanswered questions territory. All that time theorising and it seems they didn’t have plausible explanations ready to go, thus much of the show makes little sense and there are gaping plot holes. I knew the finale wouldn’t give us answers, I had resigned myself to getting few things answered a couple of months ago, but I hadn’t really been thinking about it till now. Now it just seems that all these unexplained things that we’d mulled over as a group were, in fact, thrown in there because they were interesting. Lost was just a bunch of random stuff that we were trying to make sense of because we thought there was some sense to be made. But there wasn’t. That’s left me feeling pretty hollow.

    Take Walt, for example. Now that we know what the island was about, why the plane crashed, Jacob, candidates and all that, why was Walt taken? Can we make sense of it? Why did he appear to Shannon dripping wet in a vision? Can we even remotely make sense of that? Because when they included it, we thought there was a reason known to the creators. It didn’t mean that they necessarily knew the plot intricacies but we thought they had a general reason for why he was taken that would one day make sense to us. But they didn’t. They set up mystery after mystery after mystery that had no answers. I know some things had explanations (e.g. smoke monster) but a great many things was shit they made up that had no explanation. I can’t help but feel a bit cheated here because we were trying to make sense of something that had no sense. Even later stuff wasn’t explained. How does Jacob leave the island? I can’t see how he can. I don’t think the creators of the show know either.

    I really loved the video about unanswered questions that was linked above. If you missed it, here’s the link again:

    http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

    I really did love the finale. I thought it was brilliant. But this unease has crept into my feelings for Lost that I can’t quite shake. This unease isn’t really directed at the finale but the whole show. I’ll still get the box set and watch it again in time, and maybe I’ll realise that I’ve misread this show or it isn’t so bad, but at the moment this is where my feelings are at, and without new episodes it’s hard to see how these can be resolved. A director’s commentary maybe.

  4. greenberry says:

    It is interesting that D/C chose to include the backstory of MiB to make us sympathize with his plight… this after we still hated him for brutally killing our beloved Sun/Jin (did we ever find out which of them was a potential candidate to replace Jacob?)

    Were we supposed to see MiB as solely evil, or simply misunderstood and maligned? Was Jacob responsible for making MiB this way, and therefore spent eons trying to rectify his huge mistake? Do we sympathize with Jacob, too, for the heavy burden he was dealt to “save” the Island?

    I know there are a couple of great posts above delineating how LOST was Jack’s and Jacob’s story (or only Jack’s)… I will have to reread those.

  5. dharmaboy says:

    @Eko:: very nicely written. I am surprised at how the pundits/fans across the spectrum, who have examined every little detail of the story till now, are all ready to drop their guard at the end. They hail what is stubbornly unexplainable as sublime. I guess that was the right formula for the producers afterall.

    I am happy that there are others out there who can understand the journey for what it has been.

  6. Tawl says:

    @Steven in Bathurst .. Thank you for an intelligent statement delivered in a polite and respectful manner. Many of us in the “disappointed camp” feel exactly the way you do, too. We love Lost.. always will.. and a few extra minutes of explaination in the Finale would have made this perfect in my mind.

  7. LReene says:

    @Steven in Bathurst – And I thought I had a long rant for a post :-).

    At any rate, in case you hadn’t had a chance to read my posts above, I just wanted to let you know how much I agree with what you have said, all the way through. The episode on a stand-alone basis, excellent – gives a warm and fuzzy feeling. As a series finale, it left me with a tremendous hollow feeling. And I can’t believe how many other posts I have read both here and elsewhere on the net where people have said the exact same thing. First blush, wonderful episode. After thinking about it…. not so much. Hopefully the DVD set will shed new light on our beloved LOST.

  8. HeyKir in NYC says:

    # Michael J
    I understand your frustration with some of the questions left unanswered, but if we accept that this story was Jack’s story, then why is hard to accept that the whole series was Damon & Carlton’s story to tell. They told the story they wanted to.

    I feel that Lost IS art and art is up to interpretation. Some people like the impressionists, some like abstracts. All of it is art. But to say that the artist OWES us something other than THEIR vision is an incorrect assumption.

    I would LOVE to know about Walt, and those skeletons in the light well, and why MIB was dispatched so quickly and easily and what the Egyptian connection was etc., but THEY chose to leave those things ambiguous. Am I frustrated? Maybe. Am I angry, no. Any art that makes me ask questions and have spirited discussions with friends, is a GIFT.

  9. Steven in Bathurst says:

    @LReene: I had read your posts and a few others of the regular posters as I skimmed my way through the comments. I actually think it’s bad manners to post without reading what everyone else said, but this was one occasion where if I followed that rule, I would never have had time to post. Hence my apology to all those who put in an effort to write their thoughts and who I may not have read as I passed my way down.

    Although I’m reluctant to kick an episode/season/show while it’s down, after I posted I realised something else about the FSW reality. It was an example of deux ex machina par excellence. If we thought the magic box that brought forth Anthony Cooper was an artificial plot device, how about a season long reality that allows them to close the story without dealing with any of the preceding plot elements? Perhaps the task of writing Lost simply became beyond the ability of anyone and everyone. The task they set up for themselves was certainly immense. Still …

  10. Michael J says:

    @heykir
    All this talk about the “story they wanted to tell” isn’t really the point. Of course they can do what they want, I wouldn’t have it any other way, just don’t lie to me about it. They played along, teased us, dared us to solve the puzzle, pretended there was a grand explanation, but those were lies. They even lied to ABC. Info is coming out now about how worried ABC was about this show. They kept demanding that all the mysteries have scientific explanations, and it didn’t get too metaphysical or religious which made the network nervous. The producers and writers assured them and us at every turn that in the end it would all make sense.
    In the end they abandoned the mysteries and only focused on the character side of the show.
    For me it is like my fiance promising me that if I wait, the sex on our honeymoon will be fantastic and worth the wait, and once we are alone together and I tear her clothes off I discover that SHE”S A MAN BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You can argue that He/she had the right to tell me the story she/he wanted to tell me, doesn’t mean I have to like it!!!!!

  11. Mark in Omaha says:

    @ Michael J – “For me it is like my fiance promising me that if I wait, the sex on our honeymoon will be fantastic and worth the wait, and once we are alone together and I tear her clothes off I discover that SHE”S A MAN BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    LOL. That’s one goofy analogy, but it made me laugh so props to you. 🙂

  12. Michael J says:

    Here are two specific things they lied about and recently. In an interview a week before the show, Carlton was asked many questions about the finale. He said these two things..

    1 Walt would be in the finale
    2. We’d find out who was making the Dharma food drops after the crash of 815

  13. Ginny from Boston says:

    I have to agree with the folks who were disappointed with the FSW. I wanted to see the characters work out their issues in life, not in some weird purgatory where nothing was real. Instead, it was just a convenient way to bring back old characters that had been killed off, and give us a real tear-jerker ending.

    I know they couldn’t answer every question. My problem is that Season 6 seemed to completely drop all the previous mythology and interesting story lines in favor of magic and mysticism. So it all boiled down to a magical stone cork in a volcano, and two brothers who have been acting out “Waiting for Godot” for 2000 years. Really??

    Why was MIB so keen to leave the island, if he thought all people were corrupt, selfish, manipulative, etc.? What did he expect to find off the island? Or did he really just want to destroy everything?

  14. HeyKir in NYC says:

    @ Michael J
    You made me LOL with the honeymoon analogy…and I get it. And if it turns out all this extra info is being saved for the DVD, I’ll be pissed too. But right now, I’m satisfied. 🙂

  15. Clive in England says:

    I really enjoyed the finale, thought it was well constructed, poetic at times. It wasn’t what I expected, particularly the sideways flash (didn’t see that one coming) but incredable all the same.

    The ‘on Island’ ending had ambiguous elements to it and open to interpretation. However, thanks to a mouldy tennis shoe in the bamboo grove (compared the the spotless one at the beginning of the ‘The Pilot’) I think I’ve finally settled on the following:-

    The Island was real, (not some porch to the afterlife) and the passengers weren’t all killed in the 815 crash.
    Ben and Hurley stayed on the Island and got Desmond home.
    The Flash sideways world is Purgatory.
    The Ajira plane made it off the Island.

    Having said I’m sure I’ll re-watch some previous episodes and completely change my mind, but I’m happy at the moment.

    I enjoyed the story of these characters and I’m not too bothered about the unanswered questions that are too numerous to mention. However I’m sure there may be some LOST prequel story at some point, with so many loose ends why do the writers throw in the 2 skeletons in the cave? ‘LOST The Dharma Years’?????:)

    Not sure if I imagined it or did it sound like Hurley’s voice reading out he numbers in the recording from the radio tower in ‘This Place is Death’. Maybe it was part of his time as #1 on the Island in some time shift?…..OR… maybe as suggested in the finale I need to just let go 🙂

    Great series, great Podcast.

  16. Tawl says:

    Not EVERY question or puzzle needed to be answered. Only those SciFi puzzles that were carried over for mulitple episodes and were emphasized in the story. I really don’t need to know more about Mother (1 episode).. or the Black Smoke (explained enough for me). Richard was explained and so was Time Travel. We did get some answers.

    But admit it.. the Numbers hooked us bad. How many 100’s of hours were spend discussing what, how, and why they were sent into the Real World. Same thing about Walt and Eloise Hawking (what was she?). Why were subs needed to get to the Island, yet planes could come in and drop food? Why didn’t Frank’s escape plane end up going in circles like Desmond’s escape boat? Etc Etc Etc…

    A few good answers.. and I’d be smiling now. Instead.. I’m left with a hollow feeling that many puzzles were simply a long-con to keep us watching, waiting, and hoping til the end.

  17. Morten says:

    Steven in Bathurst: Desmond was proven wrong. He himself acknowlegded as much.

  18. Eric in Elizabeth Castle, Bailiwick of Jersey, [English] Channel Islands says:

    Usually Eric in Sedona, but I’m on vacation. Staying in an apartment in a castle. Living in a castle is great, despite some minor problems. No WiFi and no Sky TV. Which means that I’m avoiding reading anyone’s posts comments because I’ve not seen “The End” yet. I can’t wait to join in on the conversation. iTunes on my computer welt work and my iPod failed in downloading it from a WiFi spot, which worked in London with the penultimate outside.

    So I don’t know if Ben actually is going to kill all those people, or at least try. I don’t know if there will be any merging of the minds between the realities or if so how many. (Will it be the number of the Candidate with THE numbers? Considering that some of them are dead in one of. . . Well, you know the answers and what isn’t answered. Theories are pointless on my part now. . . The only theories are how to explain things unanswered or left ambiguous. (I hope you’re doing that; If not, I encourage that you do that.)

    So, looking forward to when I can join the conversation. I hope it lasts more than a week.

  19. Carol from Boston says:

    For me I would have liked if Jacob and MIB had never been introduced to the show, I would have liked to have had another year on the island with them concentrating more on getting the two timelines together.

    I would have liked a year of Ben vs. Widmore. More time spent merging timelines and a lot more time spent in Dharma time discovering some of the island’s mythology. Daniel doing research, “coming” back from the future.

    I know I’ve said this before but I hate that it all came down to Jacob, a person that we never met till the finale of season 5. I still think the ending was beautiful and I certainly enjoyed seeing everyone happy and together and Jack defeating MIB, and the ending of Jack in the same shot as the beginning.

    They changed the whole tone of the show in Season 6, my problem wasn’t with the finale it was with the whole season. But as I said, not my story to tell so like any story I read, I have to work with what is given to me and judge the story on that.

    Do I feel the show owes me anything? No? It entertained me and introduced me to all of you.

  20. Carol from Boston says:

    Sorry, not forming my thoughts clearly this morning. Bad thunderstorms last night and my 10 year old is terrified of them, so it was a long night.

    What I am basically saying is that the ending for the show based on the storyline I was given worked for me.

    But to be nonest, I wish for a whole different storyline. I feel that even though the show had some religious overtones in the previous seasons, I felt that theshow concentrated on scientific and mystical parts more. So to change it to all “faith” at the end is not something I liked.

  21. Mark B says:

    To change subjects …..

    I just heard that to get all the “extras” including a full 30 mins more of material cut from the finale you have to buy the SIX season box set. That is not the SIXTH season DVD but the SIX season box set (i.e S1, S2, S3, S4, S5 and S6 in one box) and you won’t get that on the Season 6 only set. I checked Amazon and they don’t mention any extras on the Season 6 DVD but do on the SIX season DVD.

    Anyone know if this is true ?

    If that’s true then I’m sorry but ABC just kicked all the fans who paid for this show by buying the seasons as they go along in the nuts very very hard then pushed them off a cliff.

  22. Rufus says:

    @greenberry: I don’t think that they intended for you to feel sorry for the MIB but to understand that the Smokemonster was created in a moment of rage on Jacobs part and that he’s spent a long time trying to right that wrong. The MIB was evil but like all of us he didn’t start that way. He had all the chances in the world to change his mind but he continued to rage against Jacob, the island, and people.

    @Carol from Boston I have to add something about the last scene. Jack dies in a field of bamboo. To quote a dictionary of symbolism:

    “The joints, individual segments, and staight growth of the bamboo symbolize in Buddhism and Taoism the path and individual steps of spiritual development.”

    “for some Masters, the rustle of bamboos was the signal of enlightenment”

    For some bamboo is simply something that grows like weeds. I’d like to think in a more symbolic way. I didn’t see Jack as dying a failure like someone above feared but as a man a peace, smiling as he can see his friends escaped, and he had a companion to guide him out of life. Death if the ultimate answer to life all questions rendered moot.

  23. Carol from Boston says:

    @Mark, I haven’t heard this, I hope it is not true.

    I did read on E online that Michael Emerson said there will be a selfcontained 15-20 minute story with him as #2 and Hurley as #1 and what their life was like on the island and that it would reveal a lot of mythology questions.

    @Michale J – ABC did review the finale before it aired because Damon and Carlton asked for extra time and showed them why. They should have just given them a longer season.

  24. Carol from Boston says:

    @Mark – crap you are right!! Well I am not buying it, but my brother is, I’ll borrow his. I bought seasons 1-5 on blu-ray last year, plus I have seasons 1-4 on DVD so I am not spending that type of money. I knew this would happen when I bought the blu-rays last year but Amazon had such a good deal I couldn’t turn it down.

    Here is the story:
    http://www.tvguide.com/News/Lost-Hurley-Ben-1019000.aspx

  25. LReene says:

    @Mark B – May 27th, 2010 at 2:54 am

    Although I have no idea if what you have heard is correct or not, I have been searching for the same type of information because I was afraid of them doing somthing like that.

    And the worst part of it is, we will probably not get a definitive answer on whether the extra 30 minutes is included on the “Season 6” until after someone buys it and reports. I hate to sound synical, but they are very good at being vague enough on what is included to keep you guessing. I ended up with both Season 5 on Blu-Ray, AND the Dharma Initive Kit (which also included Season 5), because I couldn’t find out 100% before hand if the kit also included the episodes. It did but…….. I paid twice the price to make sure.

    As they say, “Follow the money”…..

  26. James says:

    I am just now listening to the podcast and I just wanted to say this (and I’m certain others probably have as well, but I’m not going back through 1000 posts to check), Kate, Claire, Richard, Sawyer, and the rest on the AJIRA plane made it home. Christian Shepard in his explanation to Jack tells the audience that some people died before Jack and some long after he died. There is no direct one to one ratio between when a person died and all of them being in “the sideways world” together. Time has no meaning there compared to the real world. Also if you listened to when Hurley and Ben were talking outside the Church, they complement each other on how well they did as number 1 and 2 of the island. Clearly this shows that a decent amount of time passed from when Jack died in the real world to when they all met in the church.

    Lastly, don’t be confused about the plane wreck shown during the credits. The show runners have said that they did not put that in the story, that was something that the network did as a transition into the news. Yes, bad choice of imagery but still understandable.

    With that said, I will definitely miss “Lost”. It was one of the few show I have watched that still kept just as intrigued at the end as I was in the beginning. I look forward to what the show runners and cast plan to do next. Sadly, until something else like this in scope and power comes along I won’t be watching much ABC.

  27. tvscifi says:

    WHISPERS
    If the whispers are the bad souls trapped on the island,
    1. why do we hear voices of people who didn’t die on the island like Christian and the man Sawyer killed (I’d chalk that one up to Sawyer having an audio hallucination, but later other people hear it too).
    2. Also why do the whispers show up on the coroner’s tape when that dead girl comes back to life?
    3. Why are the whispers taking about using equipment? “Hand me the scope,” etc. If they are ghosts why are they using equipment? The also talk about shutting doors and windows.
    4. Why are they worried about being seen and having their hiding places discovered?
    5. Why are they worried about being accidentally shot?
    6. Why are the first whispers we hear (when the smoke monster is killing the pilot) make is sound like the smoke monster is made up of multiple people (they are actually worried about being seen and argue about what the mission is)
    7. Why is Michale trapped as a ghost when he found redemption at the end (and actually died at sea, not on the Island).

    I think they had a scifi intent for these whispers, then later changed their minds.

  28. Mike B. says:

    Man, I leave for two days and it turns all Lord of the Flies in here!

    It’s kind of funny in a way, all this bickering: why is it so important everyone sees it the same way you do? This is the weirdest reaction cycle I’ve ever seen. For one thing, I don’t understand people who didn’t like it trying to convince people that do like it that it sucked. What’s edifying in that? Spread the misery, I guess. It’s disappointing behavior.

  29. Carol from Boston says:

    @Mike B – I agree, I don’t understand that at all. I can’t understand why we are considered suckers or idiots if we liked the ending.

    I have not insulted one person who didn’t like the ending, I would never presume to do that. Why must I be stupid to enjoy a great episode? I think I am intelligent enough to think for myself. I don’t think I have been conned or lied to, and although we have a deep connection to this show, the show is for entertainment purposes only.

    To be honest as much as I love the show I have more to think about in my life than what the dharma drops were all about. We will get more answers but most of the unanswered questions will remain that way, so it is best to accept that and move on. What good is your anger doing you? It is just driving you crazy.

  30. Jason says:

    i just found something in regard to the plane wreckage during the credits of lost. evidently it didn’t mean anything, which is good. here’s a link.

    http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/26/lost-final-scenes-wreckage/

  31. Pete from Rockford says:

    @Michael J — You asked: 2. We’d find out who was making the Dharma food drops after the crash of 815

    We did learn how it happened, just not in the finale. Enough information was given throughout the series to draw the conclusion that the Dharma food drop was made by a plane which flew over the island on the wrong bearing. This caused the food drop to happen in late 2004 instead of, say, 1986.

  32. Tawl says:

    @Carol from Boston.. the disappointment is NOT aimed at fans who loved Lost as a character-driven story. It’s aimed at D/C for trying to write a Sherlock Holmes mystery without answering many important mysteries and questions that they created just to tease us til the end. Lost turned into good-times, redemption, and a walk into the light.

    The Finale sets us up for a sequel.. a Season 7, a Movie, a Book by D/C. Too bad.. this is it.. sadly it ends, and we walk into the light.

    Compare this ending to The Sopranos, Bob Newhard, Sixth Sense.. those were endings that made us go WOW back then and in the future! Is this ending going to make us go WOW a year from now? I seriously doubt it.

    Still we’ll remember we cried our eyes out when Jack died with Vincent. And for many.. that is enough to call this a Perfect Ending.

    But for those who expected a Sherlock Holmes ending.. we got the Love Story ending. For those that wanted the Love Story ending.. they are the happiest of fans.

  33. Mike the D says:

    I want to address this nonsense that we must accept the story Damon and Carlton wanted to tell. That argument falls flat once you realize that if D&C decided to have Jack and Hurley ride off the on winged unicorns, you’d have to accept that as well–which no doubt some would contort logic in doing so.

    They spent four seasons setting up riddles and mysteries and then for the last two seasons (and especially in this last one); they decided on yet another path (to heaven) and gave up on really answering anything–which leads me to believe they never had any answers and just kept throwing out new riddles to keep us hanging on week after week (and all those damn months in between) with the promise that all would be revealed (or at least some would be revealed).

    I do feel cheated. I had hoped that there were answers to those mysteries but instead I get Damon and Carlton in the form of CJ from the West Wing telling me that answers just lead to more questions so I should stop asking questions.

    One thing I’ve learned from Lost: I will never invest any time into a project created by Damon and Carlton ever again.

  34. Tawl says:

    @Pete from.. very interesting answer to the “Food Drop” question. Can you point to the Lost episodes where this info was given? (Btw.. if true, it works for me)

  35. Carol from Boston says:

    @Tawl – I feel that some of the attacks on people that have liked or disliked the episode have been very personal. I understand the frustration lies with Damon and Carlton but I reject the notion that those of us that enjoyed it are clueless and I reject the notion that those who didn’t is because they didn’t “get” the message.

    It is fine to have disagreements or find fault with the episode, but to insult each other or to revert to name calling is disrespectful to Ryan and Jen and the positive community they have created here. I am all for freedom of speech and hearing pros and cons but why must some people feel the need to preach that only their opinion is the right opinion.

    Hopefully that is the last I have to say on the subject as I really try to be positive on this board and that is why I visit here. To avoid the name calling that goes on in other boards.

  36. Pete from Rockford says:

    @Tawl — There were no specific “this is what happened” statements. I drew my conclusion from two specific episodes: the one in which Daniel conducted an experiment in which there was a time discrepancy between the launch of a payload from the freighter and the receipt of same on the island. As I recall, there was a 34 minute difference.

    The second was the episode in which the freighter’s doctor washed up on shore, but when the freighter was contacted it turned out the doctor was still alive — Keamy hadn’t killed him and chucked him overboard yet. This is another instance of time being skewed relative to journeys to/from the island.

    There was also (unless I was dreaming, and I apologize for not having a specific reference) a podcast or interview with Darlton in which someone theorized the food drop happened in a way similar to how I have described it. As I recall, the answer given was along the lines of “you’re thinking about this in the right way” or “that theory wouldn’t necessarily be wrong” (or something like that). If I can find a source, I’ll post it.

  37. aaron r says:

    @Mike B i agree with your point. while Lost was, obviously, a very rich experience for many of us, it was just a television show. why do i feel like hitmen will be waiting outside my door for saying that? it was great, the best television i’ve ever seen, but still a TV SHOW. i’m sure we all met some great people in connection to the show, and it truly expanded people’s lives, but…
    i don’t feel cheated or taken advantage of because it was ENTERTAINMENT. when it gets outside that heading, it becomes OBSESSION.
    sure Darlton played some games and changed horses too many times, but we still watched, didn’t we? we ALL have questions that weren’t answered, and so what? this is life, isn’t it? lots of things have happened to me in my life that i don’t understand. i just move on, and hope that maybe i’ll figure things out further down the line. thats what i plan to do here. love y’all, but back to real life.

  38. aaron r says:

    sorry, just feeling cranky this morning. you should see my Twitter posts.

  39. tvscifi says:

    If you loved the ending, I am so happy for your, really.

    I had a friend who never watch the show and tuned in for the finale and cried. So on a emotional level they knew how to push buttons. But you know what, so does Grey’s Anatomy.

    THIS SHOW ISN’T A TYPICAL DRAMA! It was filled with mysteries that motivated our characters, mysteries that plunged our character’s into danger and mysteries that made the Island a main character.

    I wish I had had the same experience as those who loved the end. I didn’t cry because I just sat there flabbergasted that they wouldn’t or couldn’t solve most of these mysteries.

    Saying they died happily ever after is not how you wrap six years of scifi/mystery show with a complex plot.

    Where was my final “THUD?”

    In fact, you could have removed all the scifi elements and had the same series with a traditional drama. 42 people crash on an island and struggle to survive while the audience is filled in on their backstory with flashbacks.

    But they didn’t. They introduced the scifi/mystery elements and failed to pay them off.

    Or, they could have just made it a traditional fantasy from episode one. All it would take is a native character to tell them they have landed on a magical island. There, premise set up.

    All the mysteries could have still played out: What are the rules of the magic on the island, Jacob and MIBs game, etct. But they didn’t choose to do this. In fact they kept telling us “There will be a scifi ending to the series, it’s won’t be supernatural.”

    And, again, I don’t mind that it turned out to be magic in the end, but they really didn’t even do a good job explaining how the magic worked.

    I appreciated that fact that they improvised and took chances, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t fail in the end.

    I was entertained for 6 years and for that I am grateful, but telling those of us who are disappointed that we don’t have the right to be, isn’t right either.

  40. Lorne says:

    I’m confused. When did Darlton tell us they were writing a mystery and that it had a purely scientific basis? All along, they likened it to a modern myth – and in a myth, the how’s are never fully explained, they are used as a tool for character development.
    As for the science part, they also said it has elements of science, but it’s more science-fantasy than sci-fi. The idea of the flash sideways as a construct created by the losties is a solid philosophical idea.
    Also, a TV series is much different than a movie or a book. A movie or a book is presented at the conclusion of the creation process. A TV series is presented in the middle of the creation process, and has so many moving parts, it’s amazing they were able to do what they did (see: Heroes).

  41. Christy says:

    Regarding Walt and the “children” subplot — I wondered after watching Jacob’s back-story if the children weren’t taken in an attempt to keep them “good,” or “pure” making them more viable candidates. Good luck with THAT one, Others! 😉 It was SUCH an important part of the first few seasons that I can’t understand the artistic decision to ignore it this season. I think that the Jacob back story is our only hint as to why children were so important to the Island.

    There were a couple of other issues that bothered me about this season, especially the way Widmore went out. Upon reflection, though, I realized that I was so upset by his sudden end because I was clinging to the hope that he had some ANSWERS about some of this stuff.

    “Lost” confounded all my expectations. Not only was the rug pulled out from under us by the reveal that Jacob was a murderer (but really, should we have been surprised after the ruthlessness he let be done in his name? Hmm. Remind you of anyone?) but the Big Bads of the show are equally weak and pathetic … and clueless.

    All of this has been personally illuminative. I want to believe that somewhere, somebody has answers, in art, if not in real life. Instead, the only meaning comes from our experiences with each other. The Island? The interplay of sun and shadow on the land? As real a character as any. I don’t know if I “believe” in souls, and yet there have been times when I sense a deep mystery at the heart of us.

    And I have faith in the potential of people.

    There was a time, during all the time shifting, when I lost focus on the story. Once the time shifting starts, it’s almost always a clue that the writers don’t quite know what to do next. I quickly got frustrated, and Juliet’s line about “I think it worked” after Locke intervened? LAME!

    The character parts of the story have always been exquisite. That is what will make me buy the Lost boxset and rewatch the whole series.

    There were so many characters introduced during the course of the story that seemed utterly and totally pointless.

    Just like real life, now that I think of it.

  42. Embie says:

    @ Lorne – I like your observation that unlike a novel, a tv series is an ongoing creative project rather than a fait accompli. Further, without knowing how many seasons or episodes it might run, and faced with the puzzle of fleshing out a story of indeterminate length, it’s pretty amazing that the story has coherence.

    Bit, to change the subject – Desmond – what happened to him after he was pulled out of the cave? How did he get home? Did he:
    A. Turn the donkey wheel
    B. Die on the island shortly after that scene
    C. Sail home on the boat using Michael’s bearing
    D. Use his constant to guide him back
    E. All of the above
    F. None of the above

    Extra credit: using current scientific understanding, discuss how special electromagnetic properties might be used to assist in a journey home.

    Just kidding around – but does anyone have an idea?

  43. HeyKir in NYC says:

    @ Embie
    When Ben and Hurley were talking by the light cave, didn’t Ben say that he knew of other ways to get off the island? I think that the donkey wheel could have been involved.

    Also, just a thought…any writers out there want to work on some Lost related fan-fic? We could write our own ending? Our own continuation stories? Or even fill in some gaps in time? Hmmm??

  44. Embie says:

    @ Hey Kir – Right, Ben did say that, and the donkey wheel is the only way off we’ve seen him use. Perhaps in some of the other Dharma stations?

    Fun idea, fan fic. What about an exam book with answers in the back? High scorers are certifiably lost.

    Your idea is good, though. It seems that what we saw was Jack’s story, with other pieces to make the narrative coherent where Jack would not know some back stories. So there could be spinoffs for each of the other characters. Or a spin backward through time. But, you know, like many who post here, I was reallly invested in the characters, so I don’t know if it would work. Do we have closure?

  45. aaron r says:

    sorry about that. just worked out and feel better and came up with some ideas.
    just a small thought; i don’t know if any of you are Jeff Beck fans, but wouldn’t ‘Elegy for Dunkirk’, from his new album, have been great in the final moments of Lost?

    now,
    1) i would imagine that most of us here are reasonably internet savvy. what if we had an online convention? there must be scads of conferencing sites online by now. the only one i know is MeBeam. i hesitate to recommend that one because if you click on the wrong thing, you’ll probably run into something that you might not want to see. definitely NOT family safe. anybody know of a safer one? set a date and time, we could meet there and yell at each other. not really, kidding. but see the faces and hear the voices of people we’ve been sharing with for some time now.

    2) this one would take a lot more effort and money. what if we held the conference in Hawaii? i can imagine Jen and Ryan hiding under the bed while we’re there. we’d need expert advice (nudge nudge) on the right time of year to go, at least. i think most of the outdoor locations used on the show aren’t all that far from Honolulu. daytrips. i’ve seen a few places i recognized on the North Shore. if you haven’t been to Hawaii before, it’s a magical place and you definitely should go.

    @Embie i know, right? it wouldn’t have been hard to explain. Desmond just
    goes Poof. and we don’t even get to see it.

  46. Michael J says:

    @Pete
    The food drops were not explained in the finale. It may have been hinted out in a podcast somewhere but never explained. 1 week before the finale Carlton said point blank that the food drop would be explained in the finale. It wasn’t.
    All along when asked about the mysteries, they would say things like “you’ll found out more about that next season”, or “we’re not quite ready to release that yet” or “We don’t want to spoil it”. They wouldn’t even tell the actors what it all meant for fear the details would leak out.
    Then when the series ended they realized that they’d changed their minds so many times, put off figuring things out, or made stuff up as they went, they couldn’t pull any plausible explanations out of the hind ends that people would buy. So they didn’t even try.

    And did EVERY food drop accidentally go wrong and end up at the hatch? You try to explain the one food drop that Hurley was responsible for. Who was dropping all the food for Desmond the years he was there? Or for the guys before Desomond? There is like 10-15 years to account for since the Dharma folks were killed. And why are drops not occurring at other stations? Or a the barracks? Someone was targeting that specific hatch, and seemed to know about when the food would be needed. Accidents don’t explain that.

  47. Michael J says:

    The Lost maze, Try to solve the puzzle…

    Start
    l l
    l l ___
    l l l l End
    l l____l l
    l______ l
    l l
    l l_________
    l____________l

  48. Michael J says:

    Ok, that sucked, It didn’t hold any of the spaces.

  49. Carol From Boston says:

    Embie

    Ben told Hurley the he wasn’t Jacob and that Hurley could do things differently. Perhaps that means that Hurley can make up new rules. Plus Jacob could get off the island so there has to be a way.

    @Michael J- this show is so detailed that I really think they have answers they just didn’t have the time to give them. It sounds like they planned things out well in advance and talked about many different scenerios.

  50. Michael J says:

    We know that behind the computer chess game at Mikails that you can order a food drop, but who was receiving those orders and carrying it out? If the Dharma folks are still intact off the island and they know how to get to the island, why do they stay away? The Quarantine maybe? They are well funded and have tons of resources. They could have sent another sub anytime to wipe out “the others” and take over the island but they stay away for like 15+ years and just drop food? When the island holds the secret of healing and time travel…… I don’t think so.
    When was all that explained?
    They created an epic story that spanned time, the afterlife, wandering spirits, Doppelgangers, teleportation, time travel, agelessness, etc and then finished the story as “Jack dies next to a dog after a fist fight” Oh and btw… they all go to heaven.
    My 6 year old could have written this stuff. In fact he does write stuff like this and because he is 6 he doesn’t have to explain himself. Adults do.
    In the end colonel Mustard gets killed in the library with a candlestick.
    It does not end with Colonel Mustard being killed by Genghis Khan riding a magical Unicorn who farts rainbows and makes dreams come true.
    Not if you want anyone to trust you again.

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