Trans 2010-03-03: “Sundown” (Episode 6-06)

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“Sayid is faced with a difficult decision, and Claire sends a warning to the temple inhabitants.” Instead of our regular blog post, this week we posted a “Shortwave Transmission” initial reactions podcast, as Ryan will soon be off the island. We include some calls from the LOSTLine, as well as the latest track from The Others LOST Band. We’re hoping “You All Everybody” can keep the conversation going on the blog. What did you think of “Sundown”? We’d love your comments below!

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282 Responses to “Trans 2010-03-03: “Sundown” (Episode 6-06)”

  1. Yann From France says:

    @steve and laura: I don’t see anything on the screen caps but if you are right about an horse, it is not a reference to the LOTR… it is Kate’s horse!
    It has been said on an official podcast that it was the monster and we know how Kate was attracted by it (Girls and Horses, what a cliché!… Well it is Kate!) so I would not be surprised that if she saw it through the smoke she wanted to see what was that all about.

  2. Cindy says:

    Did any one else notice when Sayid returned from the dead and spoke “what happened” and when Sayid returned from seeing Unlock. Dogen was standing by the pond outside and as Sayid was walking toward Dogen. Dogen asked “what happened?” They both sounded alike?

    Also did any one else notice when Ben came out of the cave after killing Jacob and Richard took him and threw him down to show him DeadLock, DeadLock was wearing a blue suite and it was at night.
    Then it was daylight and Illana, Ben, Lapiadus, and Sun put DeadLock in the hammock to carry him to Boone hill to bury Deadlock his suite was brown. Then when they put him in the grave his suit was blue. When they put him in the grave the sun was blocked out.
    Orangeboxers Jesus was not an only child he had a brother.

  3. Jo from New York says:

    So glad that Hawaii didn’t get hit by those waves Ryan and Jen! I first want to say you both are the best! Thanks so much for your great podcast. We’re shocked here in NY because ABC has pulled out of Cablevision here. Talk about Holy Freakin Crap!! I will have to watch Lost on line this week. Greed has taken over in this country. Anyway I thought this episode was very dark but exciting. When Kate came out of the temple – the look on Terry O’Quinn’s face was really creepy! I think Dogen and Lennon will be back after falling in the murky water. Lost is the greatest mystery I have ever seen in my lifetime! We will miss it when it’s over. Thanks again for all your hard work! All the best!

  4. Stefani from Mass says:

    Had another idea after watching next week’s promo: if ABC wants us to think that Ben is going to die “his lie is uncovered…” – I’m thinking that his ‘eulogy’ gets discussed – ie: I’m sorry I killed (John Locke) – and he might start his own path to death, since he was tricked into killing Jacob.

    If redemption is the key, what will Ben’s redemption be? And if those who die on the island then get transported to the Flash Sideways (an idea proposed earlier after Dogen’s death brought us back to last week’s piano recital) then maybe Ben will be reunited with….ANNIE! I’m waiting for his story to have full closure and a nice ‘love’ story would be a nice end to Ben… even if he’s a nerdy European History Teacher.

  5. Chris (from Scotland) says:

    Just wanted to say i love the podcast, Ryan and Jen do a great job and it helps me pass my boring lunch times at the school i teach in.

    Just a quick comment on the subject of Desmond. Do you guys think we will see him on the island again or just in the flash sideways. Form me the comment from Eloise Hawking that the island was not done with him yet seemed to me like it had meaning and was not just a throwaway comment. I love the Desmond character and part of likes that he has his happy ever after with Penny but the other part of me wants to see him back on the island during the end game.

    Keep up the good Job.

    Chris from sunny Scotland.

  6. steve says:

    I don’t think screen caps do the figure hidden in the smoke monster over Kate justice. I think to really see it, you have to do a hi def slow motion, like you see for golf swings in golf tourney telecasts.

  7. Laura says:

    @Yann I like your thoughts about Kate’s horse. I am also reminded now of “sexy” Widmore galloping in on a horse as well.
    @Steve thanks for posting the screen caps. I can see it a lot clearer now than we could in slo mo on our HD TV. Awesome work!

  8. Yann From France says:

    Too good to be true theory: Come on guys! We are seeing they life off Island and they all seems to be able to change in a good way (except MIB follower Sayid) but… what is going to happen in the season finale??? What more is there left to Jack’s story off Island? To John’s?
    This all seems too good to be true and I wonder want is going to happen in the season finale… 2 hours of them saying “waw my life is not so bad now”?

  9. John in Texas says:

    I know that we all may get tired of the discussions around the good vs evil themes with Lost but the comments by Dogen about the balance in all people between good and evil, and the “inside joke” when MIB threw the stone, had me coming back to the basics of yin yang. To quote right from Wikipedia:

    “In Chinese philosophy, the concept of yin yang is used to describe how polar or seemingly contrary forces are interconnected and interdependent in the natural world, and how they give rise to each other in turn. Many natural dualities — e.g. dark and light, female and male, low and high, cold and hot — are viewed in Chinese thought as manifestations of yin and yang.

    Yin yang are complementary opposites within a greater whole. Everything has both yin and yang aspects, although yin or yang elements may manifest more strongly in different objects or at different times. Yin yang constantly interacts, never existing in absolute stasis.

    There is a common misperception (especially in the West) that yin and yang correspond to good and evil. However, Taoist philosophy generally discounts good/bad distinctions as superficial labels, preferring to focus on the idea of balance.”

    There are so many phrases in there that just jump out to describe Lost when thinking about almost all storylines: “interconnected and interdependant,” “give rise to each other,” “complementary opposites,” “constantly interacts.” And the last part about the misperceptions in West that yin and yang is always about good and evil.

    I like to just watch the show thinking that it’s reflecting the reality that we all have good and evil in us, and it’s constantly ebbing and flowing back and forth. We see that in all the characters, as well as with Jacob and MIB.

    Of all the awesome comments above, the one idea that jumps out to me as a way for the show to end would be to have Jack and Locke on the beach taking the roles as Jacob and MIB, as a another group of people come to the island whether by air (815) or by sea (Black Rock).

  10. greenberry says:

    @ John in Texas — with the ending illustrated above, does this suggest that Jacob and MIB are teachers or healers or controllers, or simply an illumination of the opposing natures that tug at each of us… or?? Would this conclusion leave room for redemption and purpose and growth in our Losties?

  11. Josh says:

    My world is closing in! I just heard Adam & Matty mention you guys on Filmspotting!

    As for Sundown…Holy. Freakin’. Crap. Sayid killing Dogen and Lennon has just taken a spot beside Michael shooting AL and Libby and the last scene of the Season 3 finale as one of the biggest “WTF?!” moments of the series.

    -Josh in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

  12. Yann From France says:

    Oscar for Giacchino!

  13. Jennifer says:

    Jen had a theory that drowning Sayid and Dogen in the pool starts them down the path and allows the dark in. I’m not sure about that one since what would Dogen’s motive be in causing Sayid ot go down the path that would also cause him to have to give him a poison pill to kill him? Maybe it’s Jacob’s thing and no one ever questions it, much like Ben and Alpert running JAcob’s errands no questions asked?

  14. Jenny in California says:

    Giacchino and Fisher Stevens win Oscars! Big night for Lost, eh?

  15. Yemeni says:

    I saw Alice in Wonderland this weekend. Crazy how many parallels there are with Lost. Alice (candidates) is chosen to come to Wonderland (island) by the “white” queen (Jacob). Only Alice can defeat the Queen of Hearts (MIL). The Cheshire Cat can take the form of “smoke” and other people. Like the Losties, Alice must choose if she wants to fight. To defeat the Jabberwock, she must use a specific sword just as Sayid had to, to slay MIL. In the end, Alice beats the Queen of Hearts and all of her subjects (others) are “free”. Interesting…

  16. Rich in Cleveland says:

    @Greenberry
    Say what you want about Flocke, that the end result of his gambit will set them all free from servitude (I’m playing DEVIL’s advocate for the other side), he is not a teacher and seems to following an agenda that serves his own needs first.

    @The author of “The Shadow” comparison
    In some respects, this is very near to my conception of smokey’s ability to cloud our minds. I would not be shocked in the least to find that smokey’s powers far exceed a local range so that he may even conceal a dark citadel via the dream state he holds over the island. “How did we never see this lighthouse before?” is just a precursor.

    Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Great stuff.

  17. greenberry says:

    After rewatching “A Serious Man” yesterday and again being struck by that message of purposelessness and hopelessness, I will venture to *hope* that the conclusion of Lost is more uplifting and encouraging… that there is some (worthwhile) rhyme or reason for our Losties’ collective journey — that in some way each (especially Jack, Kate, and Sawyer) sees a personal ‘light’ and can grow to be somewhat more evolved and self-actualized. Is this ony a naive wish?

  18. Yann From France says:

    I just found out what the Island is!!!
    It is Purgatory! (no… I know I know just wait)
    Just as Purgatory you go there to be tested, whether you can redeem from your sin or not… and then depending on that you go to Heaven or Hell.
    Well guess what: that is what is happening! If they choose Jacob side they will live on “Heaven” on Earth while if they choose MIB…
    So technically it is not Purgatory because they don’t go to Heaven or Hell but just stay on Earth… but it is about the same.

  19. greenberry says:

    Yes, the Island is certainly testing our Losties — and through their free will they are making their choices of how to behave, respond, follow or lead…

  20. Yemeni says:

    @Yann From France – what makes you think Jacob is heaven & MIB is hell? It seems to me Jacob has done a lot more evil things than MIB…

  21. steve says:

    @Jo from New York – You can get ABC 7 in hi def over the air if you buy an antenna. ABC has been broadcasting hi def for awhile now. I live in the city, surrounded by tall buildings and still get over the air HD and didn’t have to pay much for the antenna though it is ugly looking. This is off topic, but I’ve been off cable for years now and rely on over the air HD, Hulu, Netflix and the internets and saved thousands – it’s not for everybody though.

    Another off topic – I was rewatching bits and pieces of season 5 and noticed Faraday’s mother mentioned the exact word, substitute, for Locke in the casket as Jack’s father. So Locke is a substitute, twice over.

  22. Yann From France says:

    @yemeni: for now we don’t know who is what… I am just saying: look at what is happening in the off Island stuff
    When I see how Claire and Sayid are acting, somehow, I don’t think they are working for the “good” guy…

  23. Kyle from Pittsburgh says:

    @Josh – Sorry it took so long to reply. We still don’t know the effects of the spring. It strikes me that even Dogen and the other temple-dwellers had no idea exactly what the spring does, because if cloudy spring = infection, they would have known that Sayid would be infected when they revived him, and Dogen wouldn’t have had to test him to find out. Judging from their reactions to the dark water, the spring was never cloudy before, and they had no idea what it meant. It’s also odd that Jacob’s orders were to keep Sayid alive, yet once Dogen discovers that Sayid is infected, he tries to poison him.

    I’m kind of hazy on the whole infection thing, because it’s implied that Claire’s madness was caused by the infection, but her symptoms are different from Sayid’s. True, Claire has been “sick’ for a few years, whereas Sayid has only had the sickness for a few days, but Claire was acting the same way as she is now when Locke discovered her in the cabin with Christian back in 2004.

    Here’s what I’m thinking. Ben was infected when he was revived in the ’70s, but they couldn’t kill him for some reason or other, So maybe Richard’s orders were simply to keep Ben away from Jacob and the temple until another candidate arrived. This would explain why Richard delivered orders to Ben, but never allowed him to see Jacob, and why he’s apparently been making up rules as he goes, and why he’s so out of touch and lacking information. It would also explain why Ben and his crew moved into the Dharma barracks. They had no place to stay otherwise, and what better way, in Ben’s mind, to prove his loyalty to Jacob than to exterminate the people that oppose him?

    Let me know what you think!

  24. Danielle in Pa says:

    I was thinking about Juliette’s brand. She was branded after she killed an Other, right? Perhaps by killing this Other she was no longer a Candidate- she broke “the rules”. So, Sayid and Claire were branded during their “tests”. Perhaps this branding is to alert Others (team Jacob) that these people are no longer Candidates and are not to be trusted.

  25. Jeff in WA says:

    Perhaps the deals that Flocke makes with people involve transferring their consciousness (ala Desmond’s flashes) between the multi-universes which have been set up by Jacob’s interference. Example: Jacob touches Sayid so a universe is created where Nadia is dead alongside a universe where Sayid wasn’t touched and Nadia is alive. Flocke’s deal allows Sayid’s island consciousness to be transferred (permanently?) to the Nadia-alive universe. Not fully formed but this kind of idea could tie in Desmond’s flashes, Juliette’s sister, Dogan’s son, etc.

  26. Aaron from perth says:

    I was thinking about season one. When locke comes face to face with the smoke monster he later says he looked into the eye of the island, and what he saw was beautiful. But it sound like the MIB/ smokey hates the island, because he wants to get off. We now know that smokey spared locke because he was a candidate , but some of the other stuff doesnt add up.
    Why did smokey come when Ben summond him at the dharma houses?
    Who do the whispers belong to? the others or smokey?

    By the way I love the idea of Locke and Jack sitting on the beach as the last scene, just as Jacob and MIB was. But it would have to mean Jack is dead and re incarnated as Jacob, because locke is dead, so really they will have no connection as theyre real characters. Hmm i think my brain just exploded!

  27. Yann From France says:

    @Danielle: to me that is the explanation why she went back in time with the losties while the Others didn’t… it is quite hided if it is meant to be used as a signal! (we never seen it since)

  28. Carol from Boston says:

    It should be interesting to see Kate’s reaction to Locke being alive. I wonder if Jack and Hurley will meet up with him as well.

  29. cue dblu says:

    @Ben Mc – brilliant analogy to the game of backgammon.

  30. kathyk says:

    I did not read all the comments, but the last few moments of this episode totally reminded me of the eerie scene in “Apocalypse Now” when Martin Sheen does his slaughterhouse dance.

  31. Cindy says:

    I watched Sundown again. This is what came to me.
    Sayid did not turn to the dark side. By killing Dogan, Sayid allowed Dogen to go sideways and be with his son. Sayid has now taken over Dogens responsibilites on the Island. Unlocke gave him a choice to go back and be with (darn I can’t remember her name) the Love of his life, but to do so he will continue his evil ways by kiling and torchuring(can’t spell either) people. Sayid saw how truely evil Unlock is and decided to stay on the Island to stop him. When Ben saw him, Sayid said he already made his choice. I think Sayid is waiting for the correct time to stop Unlock.

    On another thought has anybody noticed a color theme in all the episodes? I know there is the light and dark reference to Bakgammon. I’m talking about green and blue colors. Lock in the bathtub when Helen asked him what color sample he would chose. He picked out the green and Helen wanted the blue. The last few seasons Lock has been wearing green. If you go back and watch the all the episodes again you will seen the green or blue theme. Lock wearing a green plaid or green striped shirt. Also there is something with the eyes that appear to me, but I can’t put my finger on it. When Eloise was on the Island, I think it was the Jughead episode. When Eloise And Widmore were young and on the Island and didn’t like each other. Eloise eyes were brown. I think it was at the end of season 4 when Jack, Ben, and Desmond and all were at the Church with the pendulum, Eloise eyes were blue. And also when Desmond bought the ring from her in “Flashes before my Eyes” her eyes were blue. There have been other times when I have noticed people have different color of eyes.

  32. Joanne O says:

    Can’t help but have the prominence of the Temple return me to the idea that this isn’t just a story of good and bad but the good and bad that can be brought about by religion. The temple is fine as long as the single leader they have given control of their lives to is alive, but the loss of the leader leaves them in chaos because they have chosen to give control of their lives to another instead of making their own choices. The role of the father – the demeaning dominance of Jack’s father and Jack’s own son’s feeling that his father has too many expectations for him somehow is a microcosm of this island community who has given the choices of their life over to Jacob, the father of their temple.

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