“Evangeline Lilly was very good in this episode.” Those are eight words that I never thought I’d hear come out of Jen’s mouth. But I have to agree. This was a character-driven episode, another conventional flashback setup, but I dare say I liked its execution and the performances at least as much as last week’s Sayid story. And considering the grief we’ve given Kate’s character over the years, that’s saying something. Her loaded conversations with Cassidy, her compassion for young Ben and disdain for Jack, and her confession to Carole Littleton were adeptly handled. For the first time, I believed how deeply Kate felt for Aaron… and thus how devastating it was to give him up. Giving Aaron to Carol and resolving to return for Claire, says Jen, are perhaps the two most selfless things she’s ever done in this series.
The brief scene in the supermarket, where Kate goes from fear to nearly seething rage to overwhelming relief? Evangeline sold it. (Of course, probably every parent can identify with that kind of panic.) And I’ll confess it got a little dusty in the living room when Kate said her final goodbye to sleeping Aaron.
Tonight’s episode also prompted Jen to retract her declaration on last week’s podcast that Roger Linus is the worst dad ever. His brief (and somewhat creepy) interactions with Kate tonight humanized him. Basically I was happy to see characters behaving in ways I’d expect them to behave: Cassidy was skeptical and spiteful, which she should be, given how Sawyer’s actions looked from her perspective. Roger was worried and remorseful for his parenting, as any dad would be with a son near death.
And Jen and I agree that the conversations about time travel between Hurley and Miles were fantastic. They alone would’ve redeemed the episode, which fortunately didn’t need much help. The dialogue was clearly and wonderfully directed at us fans. I felt like I’ve been having the exact same conversation with friends each week. I loved the way Hurley triumphantly says, “So your theory is wrong!”
Only Jack, in Jen’s book, continues to frustrate and disappoint. Frankly, I can’t bring myself to type the things Jen said about him. Fortunately, both Kate and Juliet challenged him on his motives and his lack of initiative, and the hits landed so soundly that I’m confident that this shiftless “new Jack” is headed toward a reckoning. Hopefully one that will kickstart his character into the reluctant but effective leader and hero of Season 1.
Like in most character flashback episodes, though, there was limited forward motion in the “present.” But what we see is pivotal, and again, well played. We now see that it was the intervention of our dear 815 survivors that literally brought Ben to join the Others. And, in fact, Sawyer and Kate come to this chilling realization the moment Richard Alpert explains what lies ahead for the boy. And where does Alpert take young Ben? Why, to The Temple, of course.
And the 30 second scene in the “future” that closes out tonight’s episode was brilliant. Ben wakes up to see Locke watching him. Both Ben’s shock and Locke’s confidence were palpable. Things can only get better from here.
Notes & Notions
- So, Hurley asks why Ben doesn’t remember Sayid. And Alpert later explains Ben will forget everything. I guess that’s the official answer to one of the biggest questions out there, but it’s not really satisfying. It was a lot more fun thinking Ben always knew Sayid shot him.
- A listener recently praised how much the actors on “LOST” convey, merely through their faces. I felt that this week. In Evangeline Lilly’s performance, of course, but also in Elizabeth Mitchell’s scenes as well. Her confrontation with Jack, for one, but especially when she realizes just who could help young Ben.
- Locations: Cassidy’s house is on Kuhana Place in Waipahu. Interestingly, I know the nephew of the couple that live there. Having 75 people swarming your home over several days is not as fun as it sounds. The supermarket was Times Supermarket on S. King Street. Interestingly, they had put up a “Tim’s Supermarket” sign up and filmed some exterior shots, so I guess they cut those out.
- Music: Kate continues to affirm that Patsy Cline is her leitmotif. (So Jen says. I had to look it up.) And once again, “Catch a Falling Star” reappears. That song has inexplicably followed Aaron from before the day he was born.
Please comment below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or leave a voicemail on the LostLine at (808) 356-0127.
Congratulations you two!! and happy April Fools day! 😉
Lost on April Fools Day. I’m not believing anything on tonight’s show 😉
Happy anniversary, guys! Hope tonight’s episode (possibly your last ever simultaneous anniversary/new lost broadcast?) does it justice! Here’s to Sawyer choosing Juliet for you guys.
Happy anniversary you two!
Did you know that the 15 anniversary calls for watches as a gift? The 25th anniversary is something silver, and the 50th is something gold. Look it up, it’s no April’s fools.
Happy anniversary you two love birds!
k…it’s almost over, but had to post. I love this show! But I’ve already been here so I knew that I would say that.
First off, happy anniversary you two!
Second, great episode. The look on Ben’s face when he wakes up to see John is priceless. Lots of questions answered, IMO. Too bad Ben’s memory will be wiped though, it would have been great if he really did recognize Sayid back in season 2 when he went in to torture him.
And Richards reply to the concern about Charles and Ellie (presumably leaders?) “I don’t answer to them”. Haha.
Next week looks great too, seems like we get to see what happened between Ben and Penny/Desmond.
Not a great episode, but a good reveal at the end. I couldn’t tell…is that the Black Rock that Richard takes Ben to? I wonder what that means, “he will never be the same…he will always be one of us”
Re-incarnation, I take it he cannot die again. Didn’t Ben say to Widmore, something to the effect of “You know I can’t kill you”? – I’m just babling, but I think keeping the dead bodies is key to creating life for others…we’ll see.
humm… the episode is over and im left wanting more (as usual) but something about this episode seemed incomplete… oh well… after watching i am not as annoyed with kate as i had been in previous episodes of this season though.
Loved the episode tonight. sawyer fans will be happy. Juliette fans will be happy.
Kate fans will be happy. Ben fans will be happy.
Can’t wait until next week.
Oh and a very Happy anniversary to the two of you.
That might of been the best episode this season so far.
To me, it looked like the Temple where Smokey went into.
Glenn…that’s the Temple!
Another great epi! So wanted the paradox, tho!
I actually teared up at the end, for Kate and her sacrifice. But I’m kind of a Kate fan, which I know is rare.
Then there was the poetic futility of Sayid and Jack’s actions. In shooting Ben/refusing to save him, they thought they were preventing future-Ben. Instead, they were creating him.
Happy anniversary Ryan and Jen!
Well, in my opinion that was the weakest episode of the year and it’s because it was Kate centric. Granted we all predicted most of what we saw in the Kate flashbacks so they were, for the most part, unfulfilling. It’s just that the story really didn’t move forward enough.
What really did we learn? Ben was shot and Jack refused to help him. That’s not at all unexpected. So…Kate (and Sawyer) decide to help him and take him to the Others.
The last 5 minutes were the only really interesting part of the whole episode. What exactly happens in The Temple to save Ben and make him the evil man we know (and love)? That’s really the big question here. What happens to the people that “the island” saves from death?
I did get a much better opinion of Roger Linus in this episode. He knows that he’s been a bad father but he still loves his son. We all have to wonder now why Ben feels the need to kill him some years later. Clearly it’s Ben who has gone over to the dark side.
Jack continues to look like a real jerk. At least Kate has shown some redemption upon her return to the island. I’m glad to see that Sawyer still seems loyal to Juliet, though.
The episode just seemed to little at such a late date for me.
I missed the last 3 minutes of the episode. After RA says “I dont answer to either of them”. Can somebody tell me what happened after that, please?
This was a spectacular episode. Both Sayid and Jack, in an effort to eliminate each of their Benjamin Linus problems, facilitated the path that actually made Ben the Ben we know today. Throw in the Hurley/Miles discussion of time travel, a dab of island mythology, an interesting perspective on Sawyer by Cassidy, and you have a great episode. That hour went by quick, and it never seemed like the episode slowed down. Of course, there will be people who hate it because Kate was in it, but you will never satisfy those people.
My favorite part was the Hurley/Miles interchange about time travel and the time line. Just freaking great as Hurley played the viewer/fan for us all.
“Shoot Me.” Miles
I meant to say that it was weak not just because it was Kate centric.
I loved this epidode. It was wasn’t too slow and was packed with details.
The loved the Q and A with Hurley and Miles. Hurley seems to be asking the same questions that the viewers are asking and he is just as confused as we are.
Kate is singing catch a falling star to Aaron. Claire asked the couple who wanted to adopt Aaron to sing that song to him because her dad used to sing her that song. Creepy.
Jack is the worst doctor ever! Didn’t he take an oath as a doctor to help people? He was just okay with letting Little Ben die, and had no remorse or anything.
We finally get to see some of the others and the scene with Richard Alpert as he takes Ben into the temple was awesome.
Sawyer calls Kate freckles, but admits that he was running from Kate after she tells him Cassidy’s theory about his jumping out of the helicopter. Isn’t Kate the one who runs from people? I think that Sawyer still loves her, but I believe that he loves Juliet more and will stay with her.
Juliet is so sneaky and I do not trust her. She knows a lot about the others, but the question is did she tell Sawyer about her time as an other and their secrets.
What did Richard Alpert mean by lose his innocence?
Not buying that Kate would leave Aaron. Not buying it at all
I actually enjoyed the episode, not a shocking one, but a very well done one. I can tell you this, by “creating” Ben Linus, Kate and Sawyer have sealed the DI’s fate. I think it is from now on that Richard sends Ben back to the DI and from then on he begins to plot as to how to overthrow them, and prolly when he begins to recruit others like maybe Amy and Ethan.
Another thought, LOVED Hurley/Miles this week. They were basically having the same conversation all the fans have been having all year, and I do think this was the writers way of telling us that there are no alternate realities, it just is what it is.
Lastly, Richard saying that he doesn’t really answer the Eli or Widmore was profound to say the least. What it really means is, Richard is and always will be the true leader of the Others. It might be similar to the Mafia, as depicted in Sopranos. Often in the Italian Mafia the real leader is made to look like a second or 3rd in command, while the “leader” is merely made to believe that they are more important.
My thoughts.
Another thing I picked up was Richard Alpert’s apparent disdain for Charles Widmore and Ellie aka Mrs. Hawking. So… maybe the war that is to come (in the final season) is Widmore versus Alpert and not Widmore versus Ben as we have thought
I’m not a K-hater and normally I prefer to compose my thoughts a bit, but was that not one of the worst episodes ever?
I don’t get Kate’s motivation at all. She came back to the island for….Claire??? Aaron got lost for two seconds in a supermarket and that makes her feel vulnerable enough to abandon her well-established life for a quest she doesn’t even believe in? They didn’t even play up her “running away” trait which would have at least been plausible. Her resistance to returning was dramatized so heavily that we were led to believe that something really must have rocked Kate’s world to convince her to go along and this episode just didn’t deliver.
Rich,
couldn’t disagree more actually. The only noble and unselfish reason for kate to come back would be to find Aaron’s mother. On the mainland, she is constantly haunted by people “in-the-know” telling her she isn’t really his mother, and then Cassidy helps her realize she only keeps him because she needs a crutch.
Richard is the true leader. Remember when Richard tells Locke how to kill his father by giving him Sawyers file? He tells Locke that he is tired of Ben’s fertility programs/ideas etc. Sounded like he wanted someone with new ideas to do something really meaningful. Richard is definitely running the show.
Also, Richard told Sawyer that Ben would not remember anything. Is this why he tells the future Losties that he was born on the island and why he doesn’t remember Sayid shooting him? Is he, for all intents and purposes, reborn again with no memories of his past life?
we’ll see after they fix him up. it would seem that he would have to at least remember Sawyer and Juliet if he sees them when he returns.
I loved this episode. Miles explaining what is going on with Hurley was perfect but probably meant more for us as an audience. I’ve like Juliet for a long time and tonight I loved her, and I must say Super Kate is back! The stuff about Ben not remembering anything after he goes with Richard really explains a lot, thought that was an excellent twist. Great episode tonight!
Just a few thoughts:
1. I just love it when the writers of Lost explicitly address some of the issues the fans have been discussing everywhere; and they always do it in a rather humorous way. Tonight, they tried to explain to us the time traveling issues that have our brains tangled. As Matt from Ohio already mentioned, it is a way for us to understand this is not about an alternate reality. And I found it pretty smart when Hurley asked in other words something like: “So, how come Ben did not recognize Sayid when Oceanic 815 crashed as the guy who shot him when he was 12 years old” And then Miles answered: “I don’t know”. But even much better, the episode gave us the answer when Richard Alpert accepts to take Ben with him.
2. Speaking of R.A. and The Others… I called it first last week when I wrote in response to the postcast: “How will he [12-year old Ben] survive? It is possible that Jack and/or Juliet save his life; but it will be more interesting if he is saved by Richard Alpert and The Others. Or maybe he really is dead, and the Ben Linus we have come to love to hate is somehtin else other than human, save by the Smoke monster.”
3. An answer to Glenn – Just curious: Ben was not taken to the Black Rock [which is a ship]; he was taken to a major structure connected to the island’s past and to the Other’s history: The Temple, a place that’s been mentioned in the show many times, but we’ve never really seen (but from the previous for next week’s episode, we will get to finally explore).
4. To Rich in Cleveland: I respectuflly disagree with you. I found the story believable and in sync with the rest of the show. I found the episode anjoyable and the plot plausible. Even more, the last scene in which we see Kate and Aaron together, Evangeline’s performance was very good [And I already know some of the regular posters here will disagree with me for this, because you all dislike both the character of Kate and the actor Evangelina Lilly).
Later.
Matt is right on… this seems to be the only noble and unselfish thing kate has ever done… not that she is a truly awful person she did what to make sure the aussie man who turned her in got his money… but she went willingly back to the island knowing that she may die ….
John- ben may be reborn on the island but remember he told locke he was lying when he said he was born on the island so he has to remember pre this shooting inorder to remember that he wasnt born on the island right?
I love character-driven episodes, but they have to draw you in and earn that fulfilling emotion. You have to believe what the characters are doing just as Sawyer made me believe when he jumped from that helicopter. Which brings me to Cassidy. I don’t think she was very helpful or much of a friend toward Kate. She cast unfounded doubt into some of Kate’s most sensitive areas, acting as if she were a rival or still a con artist.
I forgot…
Yes, John Fisher. These events explained why Ben sustained for a long time that he had been born on the Island. If I remember correctly, Ben even said once he was the last person to be born there…. which I predict will change once we find out how Jeremy Bentham and Christian Shepherd “resurrected” once their dead bodies ended up on the island.
Will Ben be the Ben that carried out the purge? That Ben knew his father. So he comes back from the Others to join Dharma? Wont the Dharma people consider him a Hostile? If Alpert is right that Ben will “lose his innocence” and “not remember any of these,” how can Ben return to Dharma in time for the purge?
A slow episode, because it just basically confirmed what we all suspected Kate did off the island – going to Cassidy & Clementine and giving Aaron to Claire’s mom.
Can I just say, I was hoping to see Daniel this episode. Loved Miles stepping into the role of trying to explain the whole timeline/time travel stuff.
It’s been said already, but I’ll say it again. The Hurley/Miles dialogue was great! Who didn’t picture two of US having the same conversation?
Why does Ben have to remember Sawyer and Juliet? At least well enough top cause problems later? Sawyer was under a different name and he never really hung out with him. It’s been mentioned that he finds Juliet familiar when she comes to the island later. I guess whatever Richard’s doing to him could make everything before getting shot a bit blurry. Don’t know if they’ll all be there when young Ben comes back.
So in that brief whisper on the helicopter, Sawyer told Kate who to look for and where they were? Riiiiiiight.
This episode gave me goosebumps! Kate is doing what is right. She thought Sawyer did what was right by jumping out of the helicopter. Cassidy still has a bad attitude and Kate, Sawyer, and one by one all of our losties are finally getting it. I think it’s awesome Kate is coming back to find Claire. The more she thinks about it, the more she realizes they should have never left her and the other survivors. Redemption, that’s what it’s all about. Doing the right thing.
A good episode. Yeah, not a lot revealed with Kate, but it was nice to get it confirmed. Most of you have commented on the things I wanted to say, so the only thing I have to add is with Jack. He did come off as a bit of a jerk, but if you think about it this way, he was right. By him not helping Ben, things were set into motion that put Ben with the Others.
Lastly, I thought it was a bit convenient that Ben would forget everything once he went into the Temple. Hence he wouldn’t remember the Losties he met in the past. Still, it is an explanation.
I haven’t cared for any of the episodes since 316, but this one was decent. As someone else mentioned, Kate redeemed herself. I actually teared up as she said goodbye to Aaron and it’s totally plausible that she’d go back for Claire. Now we just have to see how Hurley was convinced to go back went back and why. Could it be that Charlie convinced him to go back and help Kate find Claire?
I was a little surprised at Ben’s reaction to seeing Locke alive and then realized that he must have killed Locke to produce a proxy for Christian Shepard. Of course, he didn’t realize Locke would somehow be resurrected on the island. I guess Ben doesn’t know everything. I’m not yet convinced he’s the total bad guy everyone else thinks he is.
And I’m going to take out a contract with Smokey on the first person who suggests that Jacob is Kate and Roger workman’s baby…
Happy Anniversary Ryan & Jen! Your genuine sympathy for the humanity in Lost and the humanity in your listeners makes you our favorite couple!
One question about the show, and it desperately needs to be answered: Who is Richard Alpert, really, and where does he come from?
I do not share the sentiments of those who consider this a weak episode. For me, the past 60 minutes added considerable depth to the characters that many have been critical of recently. In the recesses of my mind, I knew Kate would eventually succumb to the guilt of living the lie with Aaron and make the selfless/noble decision to set things right. I think after nearly 5 seasons of LOST, it is well established that most of the characters are proactive and take action to resolve their dilemmas. I imagine that fairly soon, we will see Jack taking steps in the right direction (esp following the dressing down from Juliet). I am also really impressed how Sawyer is keeping things together and maintaining his leadership role (rather than faltering from the task as I have been waiting for frankly). Like the others, AWESOME Hurley/Miles scene and the cliffhanger(s) and next week’s previews have me going nuts! Great episode for me!
All I can say after viewing tonight’s episode is, “I hate Kate centric episodes.”. While I understand why this part of the story needed to be told, I could have sworn I was watching a melodramatic soap opera instead of rehe action pact LOST which has had me hooked since it’s premiere. Despite this, I loved Hugo waiting for his hand to vanish like Back To The Future.
Oh, and I laughed my arse off when Kate told Jack she doesn’t like the new him because I LOVE the new Jack! He’s introspective, laid back and open-minded. I’m beginning to wonder if Kate has ever liked Jack…
Aloha, brother.
Happy Anniversary!
April Fool’s Day, huh?
HAPPY ANIVERSARY GUYS 😀
A craptastic episode.
The only 2 redeeming parts of tonight’s show:
1. Sawyer showing his loyalty to Juliet.
2. The “oh crap” look on Sawyer’s and Kate’s faces when they realized they were the ones who morphed little Ben into Big Bad Bastard Ben.
I agree that it was a weak episode because once again…they focused on Kate. The last 5 minutes salvaged something out of it, but all the flashbacks were rather uninteresting. Why has she had 2 episodes already this season? Maybe they won’t do one for her in season 6 to make up for the two awful ones this year? (I wish).
I liked this episode more than a lot of other commenters. It had a lot of parallels to last week’s episode, which I also thought was good but not great. The 1977 story moved forward gradually, we got a (near) back story on Kate that explained what happened to Aaron and why she got on the plane, and we got a fairly big surprise/reveal at the end. It was very character driven and previewed a lot of additions to the mythology, even if it didn’t give a lot of mythology. That’s not as great as some of the episodes this year, but it is very similar to the traditional format of the show.
The 1977 story was interesting to me because of the evolution of Jack’s character. In one way he’s moved to Locke’s way of thinking. He believes the island has a purpose for him and is willing to wait to see what that is. At the same time, he’s still Jack. The easy thing for him to do would be to do what everyone expects him to do and save the kid. Letting Ben die shows Jack taking action (through inaction) in a way that’s different but not entirely new for him.
The Kate back story wasn’t Earth shattering but I liked the way they filled in the gap more than other commenters. I think Kate’s reaction to losing Aaron is understandable given what we know about her character. Some part of her was uncomfortable with the way she cane to be Aaron’s “mother.” Then things got hard with Ben, the Lawyers, and then losing Aaron at the store. So she ran. It’s what Kate does and not unbelievable at all to me.
Part of the problem with the show starting to wind down and tying up loose ends is that the story becomes somewhat predictable. That’s compounded by the fact that many of us spend hours and hours each week rehashing and debating the show. As result of that, Kate giving Aaron to Ma Littleton isn’t shocking and to a certain extent it shouldn’t be. It means the show is following what is logical and realistic based on the reality they’ve created.
After very incremental building of the story through the Kate back story and the majority of the 1977 story, I thought there was a great payoff at the end. Bringing Young Ben to Alpert was a good start. Then Alpert’s statement that Ben will lose his innocence, bringing Ben to the temple, and saying that Ben will always be one of them sets up a lot of great additions to the shows mythology in the future. The lost innocence statement is a nod back to the idea of the island being the Garden of Eden, but the idea that Alpert and Co. are somehow evil is new. The statement about Ben always being one of them also creates a lot of questions. He won’t be ageless like them. Is he just now an Other or is there more to it than that? In any case, the ending gave us a lot to debate over the next week, which is what makes this show great.
I enjoyed the episode, but c’mon, the fact that Ben is a) going to live and b) “wont remember anything” is a cop out. Believe me, I get it. There were too many possible paradoxes set up by the possibility of Ben’s death and even if he lived of not remembering the events of the shooting. This seems like kind of an easy way out: Here, Others, take him, heal him, and erase the memory of the event. Oh well. Curious to see the Locke/Ben interaction now that “present Ben” is awake. Great Podcast…happy anniversary!
Happy Anniversary!
I really like that they spread a character-centric story over a piece of the mythology, then set up the next plotpiece in the closing scene, it links the eps together nicely while moving the plot along without neglecting the characters.
This episode seemed to me to be a lot like the one when they showed that Christian was Claire’s father. Hardcore fans (like us) knew it was coming but my friends who watch the show and then forget about it for a week were all shocked both times… the reveal was obvious, but it was necessary
I don’t entirely understand the Ben forgetting everything part of this episode… he was still a member of Dharma when the Purge happened? Does the whole DI just pretend that this never happened?
@Phil R et al- I too loved the Hurley Miles conversation- I have always loved when the writers add the audience as a character by pointing out the obvious “All we ever do is go to the beach and then go back to the Orchid station” or way back when Charlie talks about Kate seeing horses in the jungle…It did feel like the writers are reading Shaboo and Rich in Cleveland and Knives Monroe and Connie in Alaska right here and using the posts to write their dialogue!
I liked that Kate came back for Claire…because she loves her son so much she wants to find his mom and be honest and not feel like she is always running and at risk of losing him- it set her up tonight to be the one “who did the right thing” by saving baby Ben…just like last week when all the killing and sinister interactions with Ben set Sayid up to put a bullet through his 12 year old belly. We saw why Kate would be motivated to help this child just like how we saw Sayid’s motivation last week.
Also great shot of how surprised Ben Looked at seeing Locke alive- perhaps that puts the proverbial bullet hole through our theories that Ben HAD to kill Locke so he could be resurrected…Ben didn’t seem too happy about that.
Any guesses as to who is on the pier heading towards the Sub in the “Scenes from next week?”
Oh and Happy Anniversary- I hope you are doing something fun…watching Lost? 🙂