Next: “Whatever Happened, Happened” (Episode 5×11)

“Evangeline Lilly was very good in this episode.” Those are eight words that I never thought I’d hear come out of Jen’s mouth. But I have to agree. This was a character-driven episode, another conventional flashback setup, but I dare say I liked its execution and the performances at least as much as last week’s Sayid story. And considering the grief we’ve given Kate’s character over the years, that’s saying something. Her loaded conversations with Cassidy, her compassion for young Ben and disdain for Jack, and her confession to Carole Littleton were adeptly handled. For the first time, I believed how deeply Kate felt for Aaron… and thus how devastating it was to give him up. Giving Aaron to Carol and resolving to return for Claire, says Jen, are perhaps the two most selfless things she’s ever done in this series.

The brief scene in the supermarket, where Kate goes from fear to nearly seething rage to overwhelming relief? Evangeline sold it. (Of course, probably every parent can identify with that kind of panic.) And I’ll confess it got a little dusty in the living room when Kate said her final goodbye to sleeping Aaron.

Tonight’s episode also prompted Jen to retract her declaration on last week’s podcast that Roger Linus is the worst dad ever. His brief (and somewhat creepy) interactions with Kate tonight humanized him. Basically I was happy to see characters behaving in ways I’d expect them to behave: Cassidy was skeptical and spiteful, which she should be, given how Sawyer’s actions looked from her perspective. Roger was worried and remorseful for his parenting, as any dad would be with a son near death.

And Jen and I agree that the conversations about time travel between Hurley and Miles were fantastic. They alone would’ve redeemed the episode, which fortunately didn’t need much help. The dialogue was clearly and wonderfully directed at us fans. I felt like I’ve been having the exact same conversation with friends each week. I loved the way Hurley triumphantly says, “So your theory is wrong!”

Only Jack, in Jen’s book, continues to frustrate and disappoint. Frankly, I can’t bring myself to type the things Jen said about him. Fortunately, both Kate and Juliet challenged him on his motives and his lack of initiative, and the hits landed so soundly that I’m confident that this shiftless “new Jack” is headed toward a reckoning. Hopefully one that will kickstart his character into the reluctant but effective leader and hero of Season 1.

Like in most character flashback episodes, though, there was limited forward motion in the “present.” But what we see is pivotal, and again, well played. We now see that it was the intervention of our dear 815 survivors that literally brought Ben to join the Others. And, in fact, Sawyer and Kate come to this chilling realization the moment Richard Alpert explains what lies ahead for the boy. And where does Alpert take young Ben? Why, to The Temple, of course.

And the 30 second scene in the “future” that closes out tonight’s episode was brilliant. Ben wakes up to see Locke watching him. Both Ben’s shock and Locke’s confidence were palpable. Things can only get better from here.

Notes & Notions

  • So, Hurley asks why Ben doesn’t remember Sayid. And Alpert later explains Ben will forget everything. I guess that’s the official answer to one of the biggest questions out there, but it’s not really satisfying. It was a lot more fun thinking Ben always knew Sayid shot him.
  • A listener recently praised how much the actors on “LOST” convey, merely through their faces. I felt that this week. In Evangeline Lilly’s performance, of course, but also in Elizabeth Mitchell’s scenes as well. Her confrontation with Jack, for one, but especially when she realizes just who could help young Ben.
  • Locations: Cassidy’s house is on Kuhana Place in Waipahu. Interestingly, I know the nephew of the couple that live there. Having 75 people swarming your home over several days is not as fun as it sounds. The supermarket was Times Supermarket on S. King Street. Interestingly, they had put up a “Tim’s Supermarket” sign up and filmed some exterior shots, so I guess they cut those out.
  • Music: Kate continues to affirm that Patsy Cline is her leitmotif. (So Jen says. I had to look it up.) And once again, “Catch a Falling Star” reappears. That song has inexplicably followed Aaron from before the day he was born.

Please comment below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or leave a voicemail on the LostLine at (808) 356-0127.

197 Responses to “Next: “Whatever Happened, Happened” (Episode 5×11)”

  1. toga says:

    the hurley miles stuff was so great. they knew no matter how many times they explained it, people will never fully believe, accept, or understand their rules of time travel. shoot me indeed.

  2. Carol says:

    Happy Anniversary Ryan and Jen!! Did you celebrate by going to the Lost set?

    I loved Hurley in this episode, I feel like he was saying everything that has been in my brain for weeks. Looking at his hand to see if it was disappearing cracked me up. The Lost producers reference it not being “back to the future” all the time so I thought that was a wonderfult tie in to that.

    re: Kate, I always thought she loved Jack more than Sawyer so that threw me a bit. I was upset that professing all that love for Aaron, she just leaves him in a hotel room, (nobody present in it but him) to wake up to a total stranger taking care of him. Has she ever heard of transitioning? An introduction and some comforting would have been nice. I guess as a mother, this scene really bothered me. To expect a 3 year old to just adjust to a stranger on command is unrealistic and seeing how she spent the night with Jack, I think she had the time to make it easier for Aaron and Claire’s mom.

    Re: Jack being open to the moment, well what if Ben’s being shot was “his” moment and he blew it. I can see his reasoning about Ben living but I thought it was very cold.

    I did love the ending with Richard and the Temple. I can’t wait to see next week. Ben facing his “judgement” it must be Smokey!

  3. Carol says:

    P.S. now the time travel makes sense to me, well until next week till they think of some new plot twist to confuse me.

  4. Sara says:

    Good episode, though there were alot of “DUH” moments for me!!! I knew where Richard was headed with Ben from the minute he took him! I knew there there is something very powerful about the temple! I agree that it is too bad that Ben will have no memory of the “incident?”, but seeing the look on his face when he sees Locke was priceless. Best line of the week was Locke saying to Ben, “welcome back to the land of the living” oh how I love irony!

  5. Shadow says:

    Where the heck are Rose and Bernard?

  6. Jeff in Cape Coral says:

    I’d hate to know what Kate’s done to the readers of this blog to draw the ire and blanket criticism she recieves when the writers have the audacity to tell her part of the story!

    After 316, the comments were full of questions as to Kate’s motivations for returning to the island and the whereabouts of Aaron…we all agreed that the O6 had more of a story yet to be told. Last week, we learned more of Sayid’s journey…this week it was Kate’s turn.

    Needless to say, I was a big fan of this episode, and found it to be one of the most enjoyable of the season to watch, start to finish. I love the flashback method of story telling that provided us with insight into Kate’s motivation for leaving Aaron behind as well as for saving you Benjamin Linus, much in the way that Sayid’s character was given the motivation for shooting Ben within the framework of his flashbacks with Ben.

    The Back to the Future reference by Hurley was hilarious, and I found it brilliant of the writers to use Hugo and Miles to lay out the rules of time travel as they’re constituted on the island.

    I’m also become less uneasy that we’re just spinning our wheels in 1977 Dharmaville as the series creeps closer and closer to its final season. I think the writers are inasmuch telling us to relax with comments from Sayid last week that, “when I woke up in the jungle and realized I was back on this island I asked myself what for…now I know what I’m here for,” and Jack admitting to Juliette this week that he came back to the island becuase he was supposed to, but he doesn’t know YET what he’s supposed to do.

    As to the more specific points to not buying Kate’s motivations, I’d disagree with the assertation that her story wasn’t believable. The arc of her story within this episode took place over the span of three years, during which time she grew as an individual and as a mother, and by the end was being haunted by the fact that she knew she Aaron didn’t truly belong to her. What we saw of her relationship with Cassidy was just the tip of the iceberg, and while their first meeting was predictably icy, by the end they had grown close enough that Clementine called Kate “Aunt.” The notion that the characters on this program don’t ever change has been discussed recently by Jen in the podcast, but I felt it was dispelled in this episode, not only by telling Kate’s story, but also in the conversations Kate had in 1977 with both Jack and Sawyer.

  7. Shadow says:

    I’m still a little confused over Sawyer and Juliet’s attitude toward Jack et al returning to the island. For three years, Sawyer has had Jin combing the island looking for them to return. When Locke left the island he told Sawyer, Juliet, and Miles that he would bring them all back, and that their return would fix everything. Sawyer told his companions that they would wait as long as took for them to return. So why all the attitude now? Why is Juliet telling Jack that they “didn’t need to be saved”. Why are they so cold to Jack? Why do they act like Jack and Kate and Hurley are a nuisance? I’m really confused, and this has not been answered for me? Can someone please help me out with this?

  8. bluedog1121 says:

    Happy anniversary, Ryan and Jen! Or can I ship you guys and call you Jyan? 😉

    I thought this was a great episode. I admit that I am a Kate fan, and I really feel for her sacrifice. I also cheered when she said she’s going back for Claire. I think this was in part because I was so so so so annoyed with Jack for NOT saying “I’m here to find my sister” when Juliet confronted him. But kudos for confronting him in the shower. 😉

    Kate + Roger = me completely grossed out

    I love Hurley and Miles. Awesome.

    I agree with everything Carol says in her above post. When Kate tells Claire’s mom she left Aaron alone in the motel room, I was ready to call CPS.

    Seems like a cop-out for Ben not to remember anything. But he’s got to remember *some* things. I’m curious as to what exactly he’ll end up forgetting. And I’m bummed about this, because I’m just about to start my S2 Henry Gale rewatch, and I really wanted to believe Ben remembered all of the Losties from his childhood. So, if he doesn’t remember them anymore, will someone clue him in later?

    Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on this one!

  9. Jonine from Arizona says:

    Happy Anniversary Ryan and Jen!

    I thought this was an awesome episode!

    I was actually looking forward to hearing Kates side of the story, pre- “316”. This story flowed really well, with the off island Cassiday, Sawyer story now added with Kates “road” to redemption plot. I went into this episode not knowing what to think if Kate. This episode was make or break my thoughts on Kate, and the ending had me a little emotional, and her reasons are justified, so therefore in my eyes, she has for the moment redeemed herself.

    I haven’t given up on Kate yet..

    I was glad to see the temple again!

    It looks like we see Charles and Ellie in 1977 soon!

    With the preview for next week, they are gearing things up for the finale! One more story arc of 3 more episodes, then I hope they close out this season with a bang with the last 3 episodes!

    I think early scenes we have seen this season will be important!

    Where are Farday and Desmond!?..

    The return of Locke..even if it is for the last final seconds of the cliffhanger!

    can’t wait for next weeks episode!

  10. Nels says:

    A perfectly “meh” episode. I’m glad they limited the Kate backstory and did continue on from last week’s ending. But by the end of the episode, I was more excited to see next week’s episode than I was about this week’s.

    I did really enjoy the exchange between Hurley and Miles. Goes to show that the writers are definitely thinking ahead and know the questions and the possible paradoxes that they’ve painted themselves into, which means they’ve got a plan to get themselves out. They certainly are toying with us but it was fun. Good to see Miles getting more screen time and giving us some Faraday-esque moments.

    So, Ben has been re-born, so to speak by whatever is in that temple. Could definitely explain a lot, especially his turn away from innocence as a child.

    Jack certainly is a different character now, especially making the decision to not save Ben. Seems they are backing off him for now, perhaps waiting for him to jump into the mix when all hell breaks loose?

    I just didn’t buy the whole Kate motivation for going back to the island – to save Claire? Of course, Kate has now told two people that they lied so could that mean that the story is going to get out and more than just Widmore will be looking for the island for survivors too? I’m sure Mrs. Littleton isn’t just going to be satisfied taking care of her grandson when Kate tells her that Claire is still alive on the island, right? And Cassidy is probably going to still want Sawyer to meet his daughter so she could also be looking for the island as well in the future.

  11. Welshie loves LOST says:

    Happy Anniversary! Love the Podcast and you both seem like people who are on the right “list” in life. Smokey will certainly leave you alone!

    My wife and I have not missed and episode of LOST since it aired. This show continues to amaze me in its creativitiy and wonderment. Watching it on TV week to week, versus DVD has driven us to the brink on trying to wrap our brains around every nuance and every hint dropped. We pray that the creators of this show had the guts to create a story from the beginning that weaves together this tapestry we are all so emmotionally and intellectually engaged with. It must end with a cohesive and meaningful ending that will not disapoint or I will feel so empty.

    Don’t you feel like you are there when you watch this show?

    This season more than any other is about redemption. Last season we saw what the consequences of ones action or inaction lead to when the Widmore boat arrived and the “Rules” were changed. This season everyone’s return to the island is their life reset button. Let’s review…

    Sawyer was a con man who finds himself and becomes a law man, a family man and a true man.

    Juliet was done with the Others and wanted to leave the island and now she can’t imagine life away from Dharmaville and her happy life with Sawyer.

    Jin only wanted to save his baby and his love Sun. He sacrifices himself time and again to a woman that has lied and cheated on him and made him the bad man he would be forced to become in Korea. Now he waits to be saved by Sun and who knows if he will ever see his baby… lets hope.

    Miles comes to the island for money as far as we know. Lets hope he finds who he is and redeems himself with some selfless acts.

    Daniel decieves and spins webs to begin with. He is mysterious and confusing. He has shown us he is brilliant and he will show us that he is a brave man who I think will redeem himself to the Island to save it and the inhabitants from the Incident.

    Sayid is a killer! Sayid wll be judged as well and I hope that it is righteous as he is truly good in my eyes and the Island owes him!

    Sun who has been portrayed as the victim of many circumstances is done with that. Sun will scare us with her force and a few more paddles to the head to get back to her man.

    Jack tried fixing people and being a man of logic and science! Now we see Jack finding that faith is just as important to blance out ones life. The question is whether love will triump over science and faith. Please put him with Kate as a matter of destiny!

    Kate was a selfish brat, who only lived life her way. She made many mistakes, but has not only made the most selfless act on the planet…being a parent. She has given up the child to venture into the unknown to find his mother and reunite them once and for all. That scene made me cry!

    Hurley ran away from himself and did not love or embrace who he is. Always down on the life he was given, even when he became a millionaire. Now on the return to the island he is taking the control back. We are going to see a much stronger Hurley going forward and we will be surprised by the reason for that guitar case he has.

    Locke was the most unlucky guy in the world. A beaten man who we have seen flip flop and flounder even when we thought we knew where he was headed. Now we will see that the resurected Locke has a focus that will not be derailed and we will see him realize his one true destiny… being the man we all love him as on the Island… humananites best and worst personified.

    Ben is the bad guy we love to hate and for so many reasons. But now we have seen that his innocents was taking from him by life and the Island and its mystical ways. Let’s hope he is judged fairly! You know Ben is Darth Vader right… there is good in him… I sense it.

    Desmond had no purpose and no self worth. The Isalnd gave him purpose and gave him worth by being lost to Penny and by pushing that damned button. Desmond will come to peace with the fact that he is uniquely special and I hope we find out why or what that means he can do. Let’s hope he unleashes some butt kicking on the Others and Widmore.

    Richard and Jacob are my biggest question marks next to Smokey. We are so close to knowing what or who they are it is making me ill with anticipation.

    Widmore and Ellie are evil period! Don’t trust white haired old British guys or ladies… they are always shaddy! Are Penny and Daniel brother and sister?

    Benard and Rose – They are just cool people who deserve to get off the island cancer free. Atleast have them get a time share on Hydra island or something for their trouble.

    Ok so the point of all this analysis has been for me to get out of my system all of the thoughts and feelings this show has brought to me. Joy, pain confusion and wonderment all in one. Isn’t it great to be alive!

    One final thought is that if this show introduces aliens, vampires, pergatory or ghosts as a basis for the shows rationale I will be seriously disapointed. Since I know that won’t happen I will wait with you other LOST fans with baited breath to see how this whole thing gets explained. Can you hear the ticking sound…tick,tick,tick,tick no it isn’t a clock! It is the roller coster car heading for the season finale high speed drop. Get ready people!

    Cheers!

    Welshie

  12. Hugh says:

    FTELTL
    Tonights episode was a slow one. But I just wanted to propose something that I haven’t heard covered.
    Oldham is Jack’s grandfather!
    Why doesn’t anyone see this? Jacks grandfather showed ups so randomly I’ve been waiting for him to appear somewhere else. As soon as I hear the name “Oldham” I thought it was him. Oldham just sounds like a fake name or an anagram? Then when I saw him I figured he was about the right age for Jack’s grandfather. Then when I went online and looked at a picture of the two… They have the same haircut and almost the same eyes and mouth despite the fact that they are two different actors.
    And where else would he run away to that noone could fine him?

  13. Dave582 says:

    Nels – I agree Kate’s motivation for returning seemed a little week. I didn’t get the feeling from this specific episode that she felt so guilty about it that she’d go all the way back…

  14. Msredhd says:

    Harper said to Juliet in “The Other Woman”, you look just like her. Maybe that’s because she is “her”. Ben may lose his memory of the events that transpired with Sayid and the shooting- but he may never forget the feeling of being cared for by Juliet. Maybe, he searches for her (or someone like her) all his adult life. And then becomes obsessed with possessing her.

    BTW- Happy Anniversary Jen & Ryan!

  15. aaronavilla says:

    i loved the Hurley/Miles “primer” on the LOST PTBs’ use of time travel for the benefit of the viewer. Hurley has always been the voice of the viewer, and is effective in being so.

    one thing: it’s kind of difficult for the viewer when you don’t know who to cheer for, and i think that’s what we are running into with the jack/sawyer conflict over the past few episodes. we want to cheer for jack because we know he’s better than this, but we also really like what sawyer has evolved into and we don’t want to see him regress in any way. hopefully they tie up this part of the story sooner than later so that it does not drag out into something unenjoyable and hopefully both characters are able to thrive without one bringing the other down.

  16. Alex says:

    Wow that was a great episode of LOST. Now we know that Ben does not remember Sayid, Because of his trip to the temple. I think Richard is not human. He just appeared out of nowhere. Also how did he know that Sawyer had told his people to take him to see Richard. The others did not seem to have walkies to have called Richard and let him know that Sawyer(Lafleur) was looking for him. I think he is either the smoke monster or the heart of the island (the human projection of the island). What do you think Ryan & Jen. By the way Jen I love your voice on the podcast. You two have the best LOST podcast. I shows that you put effort into the podcast and really know what you are talking about. unlike some other podcasters. Laters.

  17. Alex says:

    Happy aniversary guys. May God bless you with many, many more aniversaries.

  18. Alex says:

    One more thing. I think Jack knows what he is doing. He was right that he was not supposed to help Ben, I think he knew that. It is like Myles said that Sayid had always shot Ben. I think Jack is just waiting for the right time to make his move. He said it himself in his conversation to Juliet, He came back because he had to come back……..Also Danielle was right. Her crew was infected. From what Richard said. once they go into the temple they lose their innocense. They are one of them(the others).

  19. cat says:

    Well if anyone ever doubted that Darleton is just toying with us, watch the Hurley/Miles exchange. It was fantastic. My head hurts though and I suspect we may be heading toward the alternative time line scenario to answer Hurley’s questions.

    As for Ben forgetting everything, I hope it is not just a convenient way for the writers to explain away everything. If Ben forgot everything, why did he carry around the dolls from Annie. I think he certainly remembers Annie so is it just the shooting that he forgets?

    For a long time, I have thought Richard Alpert and many of the hostiles are dead so maybe Ben joins the land of the dead and it is Locke’s resurrection that brings him back into the land of the living. But then again, maybe it’s just a play on words referring to Locke being alive.

    Finally, would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Jen admitted that Evangline Lilly was great. She was.

    Happy anniversary!

  20. Keith says:

    A couple of points I thought about while watching this week’s episode:

    1) Did I miss something, or are there now three Bens wandering around in this story – kid Ben in 1977, the Ben that Sun whacks w/ the oar, and the Ben who has been w/ the new crash survivors and is greeted by Locke at the end of this episode. Talk about a time travel paradox!

    2) In an earlier episode, after Ben “kills” Locke (the first time), Locke later tells Ben that the reason he survived is because the bullet went straight through him, since he didn’t have a kidney. Maybe in a future episode, we’ll get to see Ben tell Sayid that he survived because he’s “heartless.” ;^)

  21. vantonni says:

    What has happened to season 1 super Kate. She’s been gone a long time. I’m sorry, at this point she could ruin a glass of water.

    So she is responsible for the purge……since she acts on her own (the same way she accuses Jack of not acting) she “saves” ben and thus kills everyone else in the future.

    of course, you can say “well if jack saved ben then all the rest wouldn’t happen” but then KAte has to be all “I’m going to act impulsively and do whatever I want” Just like she does when she gets caught by the others and countless other times.

    and why? that was never explained. is it because Ben WILL KNOW where claire is in the future?

    I’m just done with kate.

    miles and Hurley conversation A+

    The Boom scene : awesome.

  22. Bonita (from Atlanta) says:

    To Shadow: I thought Sawyer was looking for LOCKE not the O6 – as in “We need to wait for Him”.

    I am in the “loved it” camp on the episode. I agree with Jen about EL/Kate. They could’ve renamed the episode “Kate’s redemption”

    Thought the episode was not only well written but filmed well, with just the right lighting, angles and all that other film-eze lingo.

    Loved Sawyer’s speech to Kate. Ironically she had also grown up during that time and that is what the episode revealed IMHO.

    Juliette’s dressing down of Jack was perfect! Jack is just like is father – letting down the women in his life. Hopefully her confrontation will spur Jack to help his Sister and lead to his full redemption.

    I love the shout out to the viewers through Miles and Hurley. Please, writers, please give us Miles motivations for staying.. and soon. The character is so untapped.

    I can’t remember how much we saw of the murder/suicide of Sawyer’s mom but my crackpot theory is she was pregnant with Jacob and to take that crazy idea to the extremes – Christian is the father. >swirls finger @temple<

    Can’t wait til Monday to hear your podcast and especially until next Wednesday to see what happened to Ben!

  23. Jason says:

    The thing that I thought the most extraordinary about the whole thing was that they ALL caused Ben to be who he is in the future. Sayid, by shooting him. Jack, by not saving him earlier through surgery. And ultimately, Kate and Sawyer by taking him to the others. IT’S BRILLIANT! Because this could be one of the main connections in how they contributed to The Purge.

    I definitely thought it interesting that even though Richard told them that he (Ben) will lose his innocence and be “one of them”, they both decided to let him go anyway. Did they not believe him? Or was it just that they ultimately made the decision to save the “boy Ben” because they felt for him? I think its the latter.

    Overall, this was probably one of the most powerful, thought provoking, and fun episodes yet!

  24. Jason says:

    Couple quick mentions:

    For those doubting the Kate leaving Aaron deal, I would say that it makes complete sense because she has always been haunted (by Claire mostly) of taking Aaron for herself. She wants closure, especially with what happened to Claire. If she has a chance to do that, why not take it? Obviously, its really hard, but do you think you could live with yourself if you knew you had a chance to get Aaron’s mom back but was too selfish to take it? I couldn’t. I understand why Kate did it.

    Second, a BIG question I kept thinking was….Richard takes Ben into the temple. The other two guys that were part of Rousseau’s team also went into the temple. They all changed! “Lost their innocence”. So, here’s the question, did Juliet go into that temple, since she is a “Other” and if so, is she pretending? I’m not sure I still trust her.

  25. Tom says:

    Did anyone else catch Sawyer say Ben acts up when he is pissed off at his FOLKS, that implies Roger has a girlfirend or wife any bets?.

    Does anyone think the man who told Richard to check with Charles looked a bit like Tom Friendly?

  26. bevans says:

    hope youse had a great anniversary Fantastic episode guys. another great episode ending following last weeks cliffhanger. loved the irony that (i) by sayid taking action & (ii) jack refusing to act (iii) kate & sawyer reacting that they all inadvertantly are responsible for Ben becoming who he is today.
    I also wonder from the ending – what is the org chart of the Others?
    I think Jacob is like an Elder/Shaman, Widmore is the figurehead leader, Eloise(Ellie) is 2nd in command & Richard is like a High Priest.
    My High Priest theory also fits with Richard being closely associated with the Temple.I also suspect that the young guy with the beard who asks Richard is actually a young version of Tom(Mr Friendly). Thanks guys for the great work you do on the podcast – even taking time out on your anniversary to post a recap. Cheers

  27. Bob says:

    Jeff in Cape Coral: completely agree. I don’t understand where all this Kate-hating came from. I thought it was a great episode and I teared up when she was leading up to leaving Aaron. Excellent work EL. For me it is very believable she would want to go back and find Claire. Haven’t you all heard of “survivor’s guilt”? Remember she saw Claire, and Claire told her “not to bring him back”.

    Excellent writing job when Kate & Sawyer turn young Ben over to RA and realize that they are in fact the ones who cause Ben’s turn to the dark side.

    Loved it, one of the better ones this season.

  28. joey says:

    I think this was such a strange episode. There are a lot of questions I don’t see anyone else asking and I’m not sure why.

    I agree with Abby waaay up in an above comment… Now how the hell does Ben end up back with Dharma to pull off the purge?

    Why is it so obvious that the only way to save Ben is to give him to the Others? If whatever happened, happened, then wouldn’t Ben have lived no matter what…. even if they had just left him in Dharmaville? Jack suggests this, but Kate and Juliet are somehow convinced that Ben must be taken to the Others. Why? Is there something Juliet knows that we don’t? And why does Kate buy it?

    Personally I would have liked it if the show went in a direction that it doesn’t seem to be going. I don’t like this fate and lack of free will stuff. I liked it when Sayid tried to alter the future and Jack questions the whole by idea by basically saying ‘if the future is already set, then why do we have any reason not to just sit around and see what happens?’

    I liked someone’s post last week where they said that they thought the overall point of all this was to alter the Numbers (remember them? they’ve got to be substantial in a way that we will see soon)… that events in the past have to be modified to alter the Numbers, thus changing some fundamental reality that saves the universe… or something. I do still hold out hope for an outcome like this… because I think we’re going to find out that Farraday is up to something behind the scenes that is going to surprise us. I think that ‘whatever happened, happened’ will ultimately turn out not to be true.

  29. Adam in Missouri says:

    2 quotes of the night;

    1. Locke to Ben “Welcome back to the land of the living.”

    2. Hurley “So your theory is wrong!”

    This has been a long story arch and I was stating to get Dharma fatigue, but now next week promises to be awesome. Namaste.

  30. Kristen says:

    To those questioning Kate’s motivation for giving up Aaron to find Claire…when she lost him in the supermarket, the woman who found him looked just like Claire from the back. In fact, my blood ran cold until she turned around. I think that was the epiphany Kate needed. CLaire is out there and is Aaron’s mom. And as Jason says above, she has been haunted by Claire before, so it is a way to close the loop on that.

  31. TVSciFi says:

    I think when you go into the temple you are possessed by a soul that is trapped in time on the island. They have access to the bodies memories, but they aren’t the original person. Sort of a host/symbiant relationship like on Stargate.

    It would explain why babies always die. The souls are trying to take possession and the stress is too great for an infant. The Others take children, who might make better vessels.

    Also, a future trapped soul might have the goal of getting his past self to the island so he can inhabit his own body again.

  32. Nate in Ohio says:

    Hey Ryan and Jen! Happy belated anniversary! Hope you had a great day.

    I thought last night was another strong episode. Do we now assume that Claire is alive? I can’t imagine the writers setting us up with Kate’s promise to bring Claire home to be with Aaron without bringing it to fruition(probably sometime next season). Could this mean that Desmond’s vision (Claire getting on the helicopter), and thus the reason for Charlie’s sacrifice, will come true?

    As far as Jack, part of me is disapointed he didn’t “fix” Ben. I wanted him to step in and save the day like he did back in Season 1. But I take his inaction as further stepping out in faith. He is trusting in the island to work it out, to heal Ben. I think there is no doubt that Jack will figure out what his destiny is as the season reaches its later stages. And when he does, he will become a man of action once again, this time with the strength and goodwill of the island on his side.

  33. Great episode. The redemption of Kate’s character is amazing to watch, throughout the entire series. I thought a subtle point of dialogue that went unnoticed was the Others’ fear of Widmore and Ellie (Eloise?) when Alpert takes young Ben away to the Temple. When did they usurp power from Alpert? Or did they? Interesting.

    And when are we going to finally meet the DeGroots?!!! Hopefully before “The Incident”….

    PS: I love “The Transmission.” Been reading for years and this is my first comment. Thanks for your efforts!

  34. SM says:

    I loved the episode. This season has been awesome. And like many others have said…Miles and Hurley were the best. I was laughing during their entire conversation.

    @ Keith – There are not 3 Bens roaming around.
    Young Ben is in 1977.
    Older Ben is in the present with the “316-ers”. Sun whacked Ben in the head and left him to paddle over to the main island with the pilot (I am blanking on his name!!). I am assuming one of the “316-ers” found him and thought he was injured from the plane crash and brought him to the make shift infirmary where Locke finds him.

  35. Bill in Chicago says:

    First off: comments re: Jack’s hippocratic oath hold very little weight as an argument with me for Jack not helping young Ben. I sincerely doubt Hippocrates or Pythagoreans or whoever wrote it had Ben Linus and time travelling islands in mind when conceiving the idea. It’s an argument that doesn’t seem all too relevant with the events of our story.

    That being said, I gotta say that I’m completely baffled by people’s frustration (i.e., hatred) towards Jack. Besides Locke, I think he’s the most fascinating character on the show; mainly for the reasons that others on this list seem to despise him for. His back and forth re: his actions/innactions as well as his honesty/coldness are what makes the character work for me in that I’m engaged in his story and what his overall purpose is. Why he does the things he does. In otherwords: he get’s a reaction (usually verbal) from the viewers in our house which leads me to believe that something is working with his character.

    Pompous? Absolutely but that’s why his story is so egaging in that I, the viewer, want to see how he overcomes that attitude and accepts his fate with the island. And this episode was a big step towards that and how Jack’s finally coming to grips with the fact that the island has a purpose for him and is, in a way, dictating the events that transpire.

    My two cents so go easy with the flamin’ should, as I expect, most of you disagree with me.

  36. Nels says:

    A couple of thoughts now that I’ve had some sleep. 🙂

    What if that odd exchange between adult Ben and Kate in season 3 (the beachside brunch) was merely Ben saying thanks to Kate for “saving” him in 1977? She would obviously think he was crazy at the time since she would have no memory of it.

    Also, it would seem that at least in 1977 the island does not seem to have the magical healing properties it does in the future, at least in 2004+ since Young Ben is dying rather than getting better.

  37. ntbtlost65 says:

    ok I have a couple of thoughts and one theory. I do not quite believe Kate just giving Aaron to Mrs. Littleman and then telling Jack never to speak of Aaron again. Why not just tell him ?. Was she so afraid of what Jack would say?I would have thought something much worse happened to Arron. (Like her being black mailed by Ben and this was her choice to get out and run.
    As for my theory its not so much mine but my better half’s. He said that Richard Alpert took Ben to see Jacob-originally we though he went to Jacobs cabin -but in retrospect reading these posts it was definitely the Temple.
    so a random thought the sexiest man on the Island that does not age is actually a facilitator to resurrection on the Island much like the Egyptian priests of Amun ?(eye liner and all)

  38. greenberry says:

    HI Ryan and Jen and all,

    Loved your anniversary-glowing review of last night’s show. I concur. I have always been a Kate fan. I was thrilled when I bumped into Evangeline Lilly last Summer on my local boardwalk. She is just as gorgeous and effervescent in person. Even though Kate can indeed be a frustrating character, I relate to her passion and fortitude. She rarely holds back (or backs off). She “tries” so hard and her present growth is encouraging.

    Sawyer, too, has grown in leaps and bounds in the last three years and he rightly credits Juliette. I liked that there is still a touching connection between Sawyer and Kate, if not a sexual one at the moment. Sawyer is finally starting to Beleive in himself. As he aptly stated he could no more be Kate’s “boyfriend” that Clementine’s father three to four years back.

    In defense of Jack (who has always annoyed me with his controlling ways), he feels he must leave the island in charge and he is also disillusioned with pleasing Kate. The fact that he is (passively) waiting on the island to show him why he returned is not all bad.

    As a mom, I understood Kate’s panic — I was there once or twice. It did seem odd that Kate felt more for Sawyer than was ever shown, and she did tell Jack that it has always been “him” — confusing! Sawyer looked really moved that his daughter looks like him — a touching moment.

    The time-travel discussions were perfect, and Locke’s in-charge look priceless. Is Richard evil? Love watching the story unfold!!

  39. Kristen says:

    To those questioning Kate’s motivation for giving up Aaron to find Claire…when she lost him in the supermarket, the woman who found him looked just like Claire from the back. In fact, my blood ran cold until she turned around. I think that was the epiphany Kate needed. Claire is out there, alive, and is Aaron’s mom. And as Jason says above, she has been haunted by Claire before, so going back to find her is a way to stop the fear.

  40. Astro1derboy says:

    I really enjoyed this episode…actually, all of them this season have been great! I enjoyed the view into Kate’s character more. I believe she’s finally had enough with the lying in her life, at least some of it, and that she’s trying to do the right thing in giving Aaron back. Of course, she’s developed a strong bond with him (her being the only real mom he’d remember) and I don’t think she intends to stay away from him forever. I do think she did the right thing by putting him into contact with his biological grandmother. The more we see of all the characters, the more it becomes a matter of redemption. They’re all on the path to personal redemption. I believe this will culminate at the series finale. They will have all be redeemed and reconciled, including the island somehow.

  41. Angela in MA says:

    When Kate and Sawyer bring Ben to the Others, I couldn’t help but think the guy that holds them at gunpoint (and I think he also asks Richard if he wanted to consult with Ellie) might be the younger version of someone we know. I originally thought it might be Christian Shephard but then I realized it couldn’t be because we saw him in the 1970’s in Jack’s flashback in “White Rabbit.” Anyone else think that might be the younger someone we know? My brother thought maybe Tom Friendly. I don’t think so but I also don’t have any other ideas…

  42. FrogWentACourtin says:

    Hey guys, love your podcast, really excellent, look forward to it every week.

    Loved this episode – Hurley/Miles, Kate’s scenes w/Aaron were really sweet… Richard taking Ben into the temple…

    Juliet got on my nerves, tho – WE didn’t need saving. what about the redshirts, Bernard, Rose..?… And if so, why are they combing grids to locate them when they DID return? Sawyer and Juliet seem a bit incapable of looking at the situation from the O6’s point of view.

    and why doesn’t Jack say that

  43. FrogWentACourtin says:

    — sorry – why doesn’t Jack say that JOHN LOCKE, the one who saved the Islanders in the first place, said they had to go back?

    I also enjoyed Jack’s kinda pwning Kate during this episode.

    OK just my .02$

    thanks for a great podcast, yall…

  44. Judi In Ontario says:

    I haven’t made up my mind yet as to wether I liked this episode or not? Things I liked were;
    The exchanges between Mile and Hurley, I was slightly hoping that Miles would get so frustrated with trying to explain the “whaterver happened, happened” deal that he would go and get someone better able to state it, I know we don’t know the where abouts of our friendly Physicist (Dan) but I’m hoping that he is around in a corner somewhere, trying to keep himself from talking to Charlotte.
    Was it just me? I was expecting the temple to have a more Egyptian influence, however it looked more Mayan perhaps? This is starting to seem to me like a place where all religion that has spread over the earth may have origins, I guess another thing we’ll have to wait and see.
    Wishing that the station that I watch Lost on would air the great previews to next week. For some reason we don’t get them airing until the Monday before a new episode. Grr.
    Richard is still unexplainable to me? He is ageless, seems to have some sort of Leader like role for the others without actually being THE Leader, and he answers to no one? Didn’t Ben say something way back like “we all answer to someone”? Makes me wonder who Richard answers too.
    Was it just me or did the Lady that found Aaron in the grocery look like the lady Ben talked to at the Butcher shop, I think her name was Jill? Only with Claire like hair? Weird!
    Was hoping either Kate or Juliette would say to Jack “What if this is your moment?” Meaning what if his purpose was to have him operate on Ben instead of letting his “innocense” be “Lost”. I had been loving Jack’s sit back and wait attitude, but found it hard to swallow him putting aside his Dr. oath, and just leaving it up to the island. Sorry such a long post, look forward to the podcast! And to add my good wishes to the mix Happy belated Anniversary Ryan and Jen!

  45. MLE in Colorado says:

    @Tom Says:
    Does anyone think the man who told Richard to check with Charles looked a bit like Tom Friendly?

    YES Tom I thought that! (oh and Angela in MA- I see you just said that too!)

    @Nate in Ohio: Yes yes yes- I too think we have yet to see that Charlie did not die in vein- I am hoping for a cool helicopter scene with Claire in it- Charlie dying was one of the most poignant and well shot scenes in television history- we must see that come full circle.

    Looking forward to more inside the temple shots…

  46. Danie says:

    Looks like we are going to see what happened to Ben at the marina next week.
    I have a feeling that Ben might have run into Charles Widmore at the marina. Widmore knows Ben is gunning for Penny, and he knows where Desmond was going. Widmore doesn’t strike me as someone who would leave that situation up to chance. Despite his veiled warning to Desmond back in “Jughead,” I get the feeling he decided to be proactive on this one.

    I liked this episode. I thought it was probably one of the better, if not best, Kate-centric episode we’ve seen, and I’m not a big Kate post-season-1 fan. Jack is so exasperating though. Did he ever stop to think that maybe he was supposed to go back in time to save Ben? Then maybe he wouldn’t have become the creepy other that we know? Jack does not seem to be putting his money where his mouth is when it comes to embracing his destiny.

  47. Mike says:

    Yes, I completely agree with your notes Ryan/Jenn.

    I loved the shout out to all the fans’ questions about time travel. I would have rather heard it from Faraday but Hurley was a great second!!!

    If ever were Lost to jump the shark (i.e. Ezra James Sharkington) they quite possibly did with the explanation of why Ben doesn’t remember Sayid or anyone else from the Losties. If i could re-write any explanation on this show it would be that. I liked the idea that Ben did remember them and that would be the reason why Ben knew so much about the losties when they arrived on the island.

    Disappointed…But, i love your show and keep up the great work. Next week looks like a very pivotal episode.

    Here’s another thought. I know Sawyer sort of perpetuated a lie to get him and the other losties into the Dharma group but why didn’t they just defect to the “others” from the beginning? Seems more logical that they do, considering they had previous interactions with Richard in the past? Just seemed like that would have been a better way to go, but maybe it’s just me.

  48. chris says:

    how did juliet just become the dhrama doctor,first she was the grease
    monkey,now she’s the doctor. and no one ask’s any question’s

  49. Mike says:

    One more comment.
    I agree that Evie did a great job in this episode. I’m SO glad that the love-rhombus or parallelogram could finally be settled; and i’m glad that Kate’s reason for returning was NOT Sawyer or Jack. Makes the story way more interesting and brings Claire into the picture again, which is reassuring that we’ll get back to her story next season (probably).

    Some people have said how much they hate Jack now, but it’s like he said…”you didn’t like me before as well”. I think his purpose is to reconcile with Christian Sheppard. Then maybe his story or his life will be fulfilled. I see his deep regret for not having satisfied his relationship with is father.

  50. Mike says:

    Chris,
    That is very strange too, i was thinking the same thing. I’m guessing that the writers are just getting too wrapped up with answering old questions and wrapping up the story to think about the little details. We saw that with the apparent slip where a crew member jumped into the show it Sun a couple episodes ago. Also the apparent issue with C.S. Lewis’s birthday as well. I think they’re just getting a little sloppy. All TV shows have those gaffs from time to time.

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