D.O.C.
“On this island, the rules are a bit different.” I guess so, since the character who spoke the line was presumed dead. Fortunately, that was the only detail that annoyed Jen, who otherwise agreed with me in declaring “D.O.C.” another excellent “LOST” episode. We’re totally loving the reversal revealed in Sun’s flashback — that Jin’s tortured career was the result of her meddling — as well as the confirmation that Jin is the unborn baby’s father. Yunjun Kim’s scenes with Elizabeth Mitchell were fantastic, and Jin’s ninja moment was impressive. Finally, of course, the woman who drops from the sky drops the pre-thud bombshell: “They found the plane. There were no survivors. They were all dead.”
No doubt the time loop, alternative universe, and purgatory theorists will have a little spring in their step tomorrow, but I’m putting my money on some kind of con. Either the plane crash wreckage and bodies were faked or falsely reported (for a reason), or Little Miss Parachute is messing with our survivors.
She did speak a language only Mikhail understood, for example. And it was her flare gun, accidentally fired by an uncharacteristically clumsy Hurley, that summoned Mikhail to the scene. And was it just me, or did she seemed more shocked than anyone to see Mikhail (just before the “Pulp Fiction” moment). Perhaps she too was under the impression that our Russian communications officer was permanently retired?
He seemed to want that satellite phone. But at the same time, his taking it and then giving it up seemed awfully contrived. Perhaps he was after something else? I’ve pretty much convinced myself that he expected the flare and the parachutist (and was only surprised to find Desmond, Hurley and Charie with her).
I liked that early in “D.O.C.,” we’re shown that seeds of doubt over Jack’s loyalty are firmly planted among the other survivors. He was with them for a week, he seems different, he’s asking about a pregnancy on a baby-obsessed island. As even outsider Juliet seems to be building trust within the camp, it’s clear there’s going to be a leadership crisis as Season 3 draws to a close.
Frankly, I find it a little implausible that Sun would be suspicious of Jack but would follow Juliet into the forest. But, follow she did, down into the Medical Hatch which seems straight out of a horror movie. Juliet reveals the secret Nursery of Death behind the locker room, and reveals Sun’s “Date Of Conception.”
These scenes were among my favorite this season. Sun and Juliet, alternately cold and hard and guilty and vulnerable, their faces capturing a whole palette of emotions within a few moments. At this point, if Elizabeth Mitchell doesn’t get an Emmy nod, there’s going to be rioting in the streets. And the ultrasound? When Juliet was devastated by the very same news that made Sun weep with relief and joy? How perfect was that moment?
Of course, after feeling some compassion for Juliet, we’re again reminded that she’s in the midst of a reconnaissance mission for Ben. (And a “sample” is required of Austen… since she did mate in captivity with Ford.) But she’s not happy about it.
Season 3 has been great. I don’t know where the next four episodes will take us, but I’m just about ready to put all skepticism aside and just surrender myself to the ride.
Notes and Notions:
- Sun and Juliet stole the show, but Jin’s father’s conversation with Sun was well done as well. So natural and believable, I didn’t even realize it had subtitled Korean dialogue until I went back to watch it again.
- I love Desmond’s line: “You know, brother. By my count, you’ve killed more of them than they’ve killed of you.”
- Kate is turning out to be a remarkably good source of information all of a sudden. She apparently told people about Mikhail and his manner of death, and told Sun about the Medical Hatch. So, whether we see it on screen or not, it’s clear the writers are telling us that these characters do talk. Sometimes.
- Location Notes: The canal where Sun met with Jin’s mother was along College Walk behind Chinatown in downtown Honolulu. I watched them film this scene, and posted photos here. Of course they returned to The Contemporary Museum space for Mr. Paik’s office. Mr. Kwon’s village is the ponds at Kualoa (mere yards from where the Others’ submarine was moored). I’m not sure where Mr. Kwon’s home was, but I think it’s in the same area the canal scene was shot.
- “D.O.C.” discussions at TheFuselage.com, Lost-Forum.com, and Pop Candy
April 25th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Mikhail is alive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 25th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
HOOO MYYYY GODDDDD !!!!… what an end !!!
April 25th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
HOW interesting!!!! I think that Juliet wants Sun’s baby to get off the island, as I believe Ben promised her he will allow her off the island if she delivers a health baby without the mother dying.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Can anyone please translate what Naomi (parachutist) really said to Mikhail, because I have a pretty strong feeling it wasn’t really “thank you”.
April 25th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
I agree with Brian, I don’t think that was a ‘thank you either’.
Ok, so la la la the episode is just moving along slowly, plot development, back story la la la, no big deal, Sun’s pregnant by Jin blah blah blah…
oh , by the way, remember flight 815, well…
nice little zinger of an ending.
April 25th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Sheesh! The number of secrets and lies in the Paik/Kwon family is getting to numerous to count! Oh Sun, what you have done……if she hadnt kept secret the blackmail and meeting Jins father, Paik wouldnt have turned Jin into a gangster, sun and Jins marraige wouldnt have disintegrated and there would have been no affair, and Jae Lee wouldnt have done a header out the window and so on and so on and so on and so on!!!!!!
how is it Jins shame that his mother was a whore.
The thuggish behavior of Paik is a million times more dishonorable than being a “poor fisherman”.
No survivors!!! Good stuff!
Good chance that next week we have the long standing rumors about Cooper being the original Sawyer confirmed.
April 25th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Great episode! I loved every minute of it. Seeing Mikhail again gave me chills, can’t wait to find out how he lived.
April 25th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
I actually think Mikhail gave us a hint as too how he survived. He said about the parachutist injuries, …something to the extent, injuries isn’t what they seem..or something along those lines.
Some..PLEASE translate what she said..
April 25th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I’m no Einstein but Naomi’s comment about how the wreckage of flight 815 was already found and that no survivors were found sounds a lot like the relationship of matter and time as explained by Quantum Mechanics.
There appears to be several (or maybe even infinite) variations of what has happened since the plane has crashed. What little I do understand is that experiments have proven that the very same piece of matter (on the atomic level) can exist in two or more locations at the same time.
Site to visit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_quantum_mechanics#Full_quantum_mechanical_theory
“The idea that an electron might now be in one place and an instant later be in some other place without having traveled between the two points was one of the earliest indications of the “spookiness” of quantum phenomena. Although the scale is smaller, the “jump” from orbit to orbit is as strange and unexpected as would be a case in which someone stepped out of a doorway in London onto the streets of Los Angeles.”
My head gets dizzy just thinking about the implications being opened up here. This could explain how the man from Tampa can be in Tampa in one moment and on the island a moment later. Any thoughts?
April 25th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
She said (in portugese) “I am not alone.”
April 25th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
While the ending of the episode was, no doubt, the game-changing moment that the writers have told us about, I’m not going to try to theorize about it because it really could mean anything. I’m literally still recovering from that shocker.
But I do predict a Jin flashback coming in Season 4 that explains how he learned martial arts. Bahaha!
April 25th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
I’m sure everyone will have theories by the bushel to match the confusion we felt at the end of this episode, but for the moment, let’s just savor it. We are in a kind of “Lost” bliss, and it’s best to just take it in. And let’s also savor a great performance by Yunjin Kim, a beautiful, talented actress who has not, until now, been given much room to shine.
April 25th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
jim, I agree that Yunjin really knocked it out of the park tonight. The look on her face upon seeing her baby on the ultrasound looked so pure and real it was just great acting.
I also like the theory about the Island’s healing properties reviving Patchy. The Losties need separate some heads from some bodies to be sure their victims are dead.
I so expected Juliet to tell Ben that the baby was conceived off the Island…I guess it is still possible that she lied to Sun and Ben about the baby’s DOC to further her own plans.
Can’t wait for the rest of the season!
April 26th, 2007 at 12:38 am
Hurley’s ‘oops’ on firing the flare gun while Desmond and Charlie argue that no one knows where they are.
I thought the one-eye-guy with the eye patch was already dead! I think he said something like, “the wounds on this island are a bit different.” And Jin sure is quick to see him take the phone, of course I cheered for Jin when he went into Ninja mode and kicked ass.
Sun went with Juliet to get an ultrasound and found out that she conceived on the island meaning that Jin is the father of her baby. Juliet also mentioned that the men’s sperm count was 60-89(?) but on the island its 5 times that. A couple of eps ago Juliet mentioned (to Ben?) that the problem with the pregnant women dying on the island had to start at conception.
What kind of samples is Juliet referring to…urine/blood?
Poor Juliet, I don’t think Ben will ever let her go!
I love Sun’s threat to Jin’s birth mother.
The plane of flight 815 was found but there were no survivors. I’m real curious to find out who parachute lady is!
April 26th, 2007 at 1:17 am
I need to buy the season 1 & 2 DVD’s again… But can anyone tell us if the “Others” have ever abducted any men along with the women and children?
Great episode!
April 26th, 2007 at 1:37 am
The most significant news for me actually was nailing down the date. Juliet said it was Saturday morning. That would make it Saturday, December 18, 2004. It’s now 8 days before the Tsunami of December 26, 2004. I wonder if that will come into play in the season finale.
April 26th, 2007 at 1:53 am
Couple of thoughts:
1) I can’t say that I expected it, but the idea that the 815 flight was “found” and that there were no survivors isn’t surprising. It seems clear that the Dharma Initiative is a major power broker in our world. If they are behind our Losties being on the island what other news would be reported?
If you didn’t watch the spoiler for next week on and don’t want to know anything about it, skip comment 2.
2) I agree that Locke’s father is likely the original Sawyer. I think that is why Sawyer is brought into the picture for killing the one that Locke kidnapped.
Great Episode!!!
April 26th, 2007 at 2:23 am
John Fischer.. nice call. Maybe they are madly doing a re-write on the finale after they read that.
April 26th, 2007 at 2:25 am
loving the show – nexts weeks trailer here 3.19 > http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=811
April 26th, 2007 at 2:28 am
Dean in Chicago–Yes, they have abducted men. Right at the beginning with the Tailies. They tried to take Eko, but he killed two of them. Perhaps they thought he would produce some pretty powerful babies because of his stature…
I also saw on The Fuselage that parachuter said, “I’m not alone.” So I’m thinking perhaps Penny is on the island and maybe Jin wanted to go the other way because he saw a different beacon?
April 26th, 2007 at 3:24 am
Great episode … I found the flashback to be one of the best this season. The scene with Sun and Jin’s father was heartreaking. He’s such a good man and only wants what’s best for Jin, even if that means he can never see him again. Their story is so tragic too … so many wrong decisions by Sun. And the island story was fantastic, both the A & the B story. When Juliet said that men’s sperm count is 5x normal … I wonder if there’s improvement in other organ systems as well? Like, maybe that’s why the Others seem super-strong? The same thing should apply to the Losties too, but they may not yet realize that their strength is augmented and therefore might not know how to use it…
April 26th, 2007 at 3:42 am
Wow, this episode is a mind-bender. Flight 815 was found? The whole thing, or just parts? Everyone was dead, or just everyone found was dead? Wow.
The ironies with Jin and Sun were very nicely done, too. Jin’s father is quite noble and self-sacrificing, his mother is still trying to get money in less-than-respectable ways, and we see more of the tangled web woven between Jin and Sun.
A baby conceived off the island would be 90+ days old, and almost into the second trimester. Juliet would be very able to tell, I would think, whether the baby was at 9-10 weeks or 14-15 weeks. But here’s what I don’t understand… barring some tremendous hormonal changes due to the trauma of the crash, wouldn’t Sun know whether she had a period in the 30+ days she was on the island prior to conception?
The island’s “magical healing properties” didn’t seem to work so well on Mikhail’s face. Interestingly, though everyone we’ve seen die has died of a penetrating injury, drowing, neck-snapping, etc. None of “natural” causes.
My last thought (for now)… Juliet is clearly on a mission of some kind for the Others. BUT, she also clearly is not mentally/morally in the same place as them. I’m sticking with my theory that she’s gone “rogue” and that every move she makes is one for her own best interests.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:43 am
WOW!!
I still do not understand how there are people out there who do not watch LOST, or people who could ever quit watching it. It is si incredibly addictive, so creative, well written and well acted. I totally agree with Ryan’s synopsis: one of the best episodes, great performances, and mind-blowing new mysteries. I loved Yoon jin Kim’s acting; she really is a great performer. When I watch episodes like this one, I really miss the podcast. But still, Ryan and Jen are still doing a great job maintaining this site.
Did anyone notice that Naomi is quite a multilingual person: she spoke Spanish, Italian, English and Chinese, and the book she carried is in Portuguese. But I completely do not trust her. Mikhail did seem to have been expecting her arrival (the flare), and I think Naomi’s words “I’m not alone” were code for “go meet the other chopper passenger” (should this be other passengers, in plural?). and perhaps she was not the one reading the book.
How did Mikhail survive/fake his earlier death? I think we will not know until season 4.
Ryan wrote:
>> I love Desmond’s line: “By my count, you’ve killed more of
>> them than they’ve killed of you.”
I found that line really interesting because “you” means all the Losties (as opposite to The Others), right? So, why doesn’t he include himself? He could have said “…than they’ve killed of us”. I know he is not an 815′er, but he is still part of the Losties, isn’t he?
Oh, and the shocking final moments… well, it seems that the island has a protective shield that makes it invisible; what if, when hitting that shield, the plane got clonned with passengers on board? That could explain the wreckage being found somewhere else with no survivors, and it could be an explanation to what Paulo was staring at in Exposé, after they crashed on the beach. I will read the link HeyBrah posted about quantum mechanics, and try to see how it could explain that. But I do hope the show’s creators do not come up with a supernatural explanation for this; after all, they had said there is a scientific explanation for what is going on in the island.
Later.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:52 am
Naomi doesn’t speak Italian. As Booya said, it was Portuguese. She said “estou morendo” (I’m dying) and later “eu nao estou sol” (I’m not alone). She didn’t say anything in Italian. Mikhail was lying. He might have thought she said “sto morendo” at first, which is “I’m dying” in Italian, but she never said “thank you” in any language, it was “I’m not alone.”
She has to be connected to the two men who spoke Portuguese at the end of season 2. The book she was carrying was “Ardil 22.” Presumably “Catch 22,” but “ardil” means “trick” in Portuguese.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:53 am
I agree with Fernando that I am still holding on to the idea that there is a scientific reason behind all of this….I am just not so scientific myself that I can figure out what that reason is. But I am lovin’ the ride!
Chinese? I missed the Chinese! But I did pick up on the multi-lingual abilities of Miss Parachute. Every time she spoke it was in a different language. And to top it off, her English was nearly flawless, though obviously not her 1st language! She is quite talented! Makes me wonder who she works for…
“I am not alone”. Whoa.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:56 am
Gretchen – the CC subtitles had her saying “sto morendo”, which as you note, is Italian. It is not outside the realm of reason that she speaks Italian, Spanish and Portuguese as they are all quite close, linguistically. IMHO.
April 26th, 2007 at 5:17 am
I think I figured out the mystery surrounding the identity of the parachute woman…… It’s Sanjaya from American Idol!
April 26th, 2007 at 5:52 am
1.Dead people that don’t Stay dead.Mikael
2. Kate IS Pregnant because Juliet said so, “Samples from Kate and the other women”.
3.There has to be an alternate reality,or at the least a skip/loop in time.’There were No survivors”.
4.Dharma could have smashed a plane into the Ocean or splaterd into prepared “crash”site…they are evil crafty devils.
5. Jin’s a Daddy!!!,almost.
6.Yeah, Sun!! what a STRONG Character.
Blackmail was an event that Sun had NO control over until she told Jin’s birth mom to ,”take the money and go away…or you will see what the Paik family is capable of”
Her Dad would have been Proud had he known the truth about why she needed the $money$. Sun was initially saving Jin and Mr. Paik’s honor/face by keeping embarressing ,”your son-in-law was born to a whore’ talk outta the tabloids,”your momma was a tramp”.
Jin’s papa is a fisherman, and a devout person of gentle character. I see him finding a way to get a boat and rescue his son and Sun and sail off into sunset. I know if my son went missing I would search the ends of the earth for him
An ocean crash in super deep water would have little or no recoverable bodies/wreckage and as such, as evil as Dharma is(Former Soviet military Field Medic Mikael) planting a few corpses, is not outta the realm of possibilites.
Well three of My Stoopid Theories/Ideas have come to bear fruit,
-Kate is Preggers
-Mikael was NOT dead.(apparently “Dead No Stay Daed ,calSimon)
-time Loop in effect(FruitLoop).
Moving forward with confidence
JD in Bellingham
April 26th, 2007 at 6:07 am
Great episode – superb acting and direction all around. However, when I see Jack and his tatoos, I flashback to “Stranger in a Strange Land” which I’d rather forget. Found it a little hard to believe Sun would go alone with Juliet on a torch-lit trek to the Medical Hatch. That’s an especially creepy place especially with those flickering and buzzing fluorescent lamps (not to mention secret passage to the awaiting-death-room) That whole thing creeps me out.
I knew Mikhail wasn’t dead because of the smile he had on his face as Locke pushed him into the force field (Enter 77). I suspect Ms. Klugh is still alive. Come to think of it… ANYONE could still be alive.
The fact that helicopter girl was wearing high-altitude flight gear, makes me believe that access through the island’s magnetic field is more possible at higher altitudes. Maybe the high altitude is something that caused the mechanical problem with the helicopter–any helicopter jocks out there? The sub can go either way under the field. Intermittent access is possible: the Black Rock, (Amelia Earhart?), Danelle’s boat, drug smuggler’s plane, Desmond’s boat, Flt. 815. Getting out is another thing. Any word from Walt and Michael? … didn’t think so.
The wreakage of flight 815 with no survivors was just quad-lingual girl jacking with their minds. She’s IN with Mikhail somehow.
Actor Michael Emerson (Ben) was born in 1954. If they are assuming his approx. age for Benry, then he predates Dharma on the island — saying several times that he was born on the island. I’d like to know more about the origins of Dharma, the Others, Mittelos and the ancient culture of the four-toed people.
Ryan, thanks for the extra pix although I’m jealous of the one of you with Yunjin Kim (Sun). She is as beautiful as she is talented (and that’s considerable).
April 26th, 2007 at 6:47 am
“They” found the plane. There were no survivors.
This sounds like someone telling a story that they heard/read in the news. I wouldn’t put it past the Hanso Foundation if it is found to have some fingers in the media.
A plance crashes on their secret island. They know people will be looking for it. They spin the news reports to say the plane is found and everyone on it is dead. No need for search and rescue crews.
Did anyone notice the Piak company logo, both on the wall of the building and Jin’s shirt? It looks a lot like the Hanso logo.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:21 am
I’m not looking to pick any fights here. That being said:
* We don’t know that Kate is pregnant. All we know is she’ll be providing (purposefully or not) samples to Juliet.
* Mikhail was not dead. That seems pretty clear. But his mechanism of death was… walked though an ultrasonic fence? Really? How does that work? I think the Losties were a bit too gullible… the whole foaming at the mouth and passing out thing looked much more like a seizure or arrhythmic event than death.
* Ms Klugh not dead? After a GSW to the chest? I doubt it. I think people who have been clearly killed (gun shot, sharpened stick through the abdominal aorta, neck snapped, drowned, head beat in with a boulder, sepsis after leg amputation) are dead. But “sonic fence trauma” or “killed by the smoke monster” are not necessarily.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:25 am
* And the notion of 815 being found and no survivors… well, apparently there were. If the rest of the world doesn’t know the Losties are lost, then they think everyone on the plane died. This is just a perception issue — people off the island don’t know about it — similar to the whole “good guys”/”bad guys” dichotomy.
* I do agree with the theories about that Mikhail was expecting the parachuter. Though I don’t know if they are necessarily in cahoots… maybe he saw her approach from his techno-station?
April 26th, 2007 at 7:33 am
Hi, again.
I forgot to ask, did anyone else HEAR Smokie The Monster right at the moment Hurley fires the flare gun? I replayed that bit several times, and I clearly hear it. am I going crazy?
SPOILER ALERT:
Bill,
ABC’s official website says that in episode 3-20 “The Man Behind The Curtain” (coming up May 9th) we will discover a different meaning for the expression “born on the island”. That implies we will learn that Ben was not born there in the strict, traditional meaning of the term. And that would not make him a liar. However, he said to Jack also (in 3-02 “The Glass Ballerina”)that he has lived all his live on the island. will that be true? what do you think?
April 26th, 2007 at 7:34 am
I don’t think that Patchy was dead, either. Maybe he was near-dead, but was hanging on just enough so that island could work it’s magic and heal him … after all, we didn’t see Kate and the crew actually check the body to see if he was really dead.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Fernando–
I thought that I heard it too, right as he set it off. I didn’t watch it again, and I’ve no idea what a flare gun sounds like close-up.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:51 am
What if we’re all going in the wrong direction about Parachute-Chick?
What is she really was sent by the Others from the other island? She WAS in a helicopter (or so we are led to believe), which has a very short range. She knew Desmond (much as the Others do), and was tended to quite nicely by Dead-Man-Walking Mikhael, to whom she also gave a very private, yet telling message. She also leaves our Losties with some very poignant, confusing, and possibly false information which will have an incredible impact on them, their psyche, and morality.
Just my $.02.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:55 am
I am not sure if anyone has said this….the posts here look good today and long..so I still have to read them….but They crashed 90 days ago. Isn’t there usually a time span where searches are halted…so maybe they are not dead..just declared dead? And the I am not alone means Naomi and company are just still searching. And Patchy being alive? I am still confused about that….
April 26th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Also isn’t Patchy the communications person…so of course he would want the phone….and Also naomi spoke in all the languages according to who was present it seemed to me. Even Korean.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:02 am
i forgot she said we found the plane…..hmmm..ah well.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Kate is with Child and on Juliet’s list.
-Sawyers Times Five Sperm Count has had Two Chances to “Spawn Upsteam”, and Juliet was Speaking of Pregnant Sun and without stopping said and I will get samples from KATE and the other women.
———————————————————
Heck, I wouldn’t be surprized if Rose and Bernard didnt get Jiggy with it as well, An older woman pregnancy is not outta the realm of possibilites is it??
-Sarah was said to be 90 in the Bible when she birthed Issac.
-There is a recent record of a Spanish lady giving birth to twins at 67 y/o
-There is a historical record of a 97 y/o Polish woman giving birth in the 18th century.
———————————————————
Juliet is going to Check them all BUT Kate is priority because she is next .
This has to take place in next 24-72 hours ,as she has been there about 3-5 days. “”See you in a week”"
Mikael SAW the flare,was he waiting for it?…Yes! He came on a dead..(get it Dead Run)/ ahahahahah. And he jacked the only thing of real value to 815ers,the freakin ‘Satalite/Cell Phone” he knew he would not be able to snatch Naomi,to get her back to the Comm Hatch.
I will admit that MAYBE Mikael was not really dead(Fake Death)
but ,if they went to that trouble, could not Other Other others;
Arntz, Ethan, Mrs. Klugh also have pulled a Seigfred and Roy moment?
Naomi/Penny/Mikael/Monk/Jewelry Lady/Are All related.Hansho?
What ever happen to the CreepyNew Sheriff Lady from Jack’s interrogation. And SlingShot Sally’s RomeoBobby Brady?
April 26th, 2007 at 9:12 am
D . O. C.
Dead On Conception
April 26th, 2007 at 9:13 am
Fernando, thanks for the ABC info. “Man Behind the Curtain” another Wizard of Oz reference. Don’t trust anything Ben says even in his most sincere moments. If he said he was born on the island and has lived there all his life then I believe just the opposite.
I was thinking about the high-altitude parachuting chick and remembered the high-altitude (Widmore) balloon discovered by Ana Lucia, Charlie and Sayid (maybe Hurley?). Could have been piloted by the real “Henry Gale”. More Wiz stuff.
DougP, loved the Sanjaya joke. Mikhail and the Parachute Girl — DON”T trust them.
Juliet is a player and is not loyal to any camp. She may be falling (or has fallen) in love with Jack which may cloud her motives for just a minute or two.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:27 am
I have a thought about Mikhail’s supposed “death” due to sonic fence. Think of the criticism after “Left Behind”…namely, “why couldn’t the smoke monster go over the fence if Kate, Locke and Sayid could?” Well, think about it…what if the fence wasn’t on? We know it was off in “Left Behind”…Kate and Juliet ran through it, then Juliet turned it on. Perhaps our Losties can’t really safely scale over the fence when it’s on, but (of course) can if it’s off.
So, fence off, Mikhail scares them, Locke “kills” him, he fakes death. Losties scale fence, thinking it’s on, but it’s not.
Fence off. smoke monster arrives, Kate and Juliet run through posts, Juliet turns fence on, smoke monster cannot pass or go over.
“Dead” Mikhail shows up running around like nothing happened. Healed by island? Perhaps. Never really injured? That’s my bet.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Think somebody said it before. The fence was on, you could here it working.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Super-sperm or no super-sperm, there is a very finite period during the female reproductive cycle when women can get pregnant. It lasts about 48 hours after ovulation. Sperm can survive in the vagina for a hypothetical maximum of about 7 days. So Kate, just be having sex, ain’t necessarily getting pregnant. There’s only about a 25% chance that one could even possibly do it on a random day, and that ignores any other factors. I think the “sample” from Kate is going to be a urine pregnancy test similar to the one Sun used.
Speaking of which… Sun’s pregnancy test was made by Widmore labs and was “coincidentally” on the beach. One of the fallen aerial objects (Henry Gale’s balloon or the supply drop, I can’t recall) was branded with a Widmore logo. Which is Penny’s dad’s company. So more than likely Penny has a way of knowing where the island is, and a connection (however tangential) to the Others.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Dave said:
But here’s what I don’t understand… barring some tremendous hormonal changes due to the trauma of the crash, wouldn’t Sun know whether she had a period in the 30+ days she was on the island prior to conception?
Mel says:
Dave, it does not take tremendous hormonal changes for your period not to occur. And after years of having your period, you can ignore/forget about it easily..unless you make yourself write it down for some reason. So, it’s plausible.
Loved the episode!
BTW, Mel is Melissa
April 26th, 2007 at 10:32 am
I think the Dharma sonic fence is just like the invisible dog fences we have. The dog could easily go “over it” and would be shocked only for an instant, but doesn’t know that. Maybe Smokey has “tested” the fence and didn’t like the result, so he stays put.
Mikhail still had the blood or fake blood from his ears. Mikhail, wash up, comrade.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:57 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_birth_mothers#Biblical_References
To get Prego, Yes, there is a “window of opportunity”, this Island is Different …”As are the Rules”.
The Dharma/Hansho food stuff could be laced with fertility drugs.
Maybe it’s in the Oatmeal? Jack is purposly dising Kate, and sorta giving her the cold treatment. He is a tool.
Why would Lost Producers show us Kate getting with Sawyer in detail if there was not a “ConceptionConection”?
April 26th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Kate are probably not pregnant… Im sure she swallow Sawyer… lolll
April 26th, 2007 at 11:11 am
not nice Pal
not nice.
Besides she is with child and will be “first to live”.
I think Sun will lose baby but LIVE. (More Touching/Story)
April 26th, 2007 at 11:40 am
In the Official Lost Podcast, the producers hinted that Smokie may be tied to the ground somehow…you never see it totally hovering above ground, some part if it always seems to be attached to the Island…and therefore it could not go over the fence because it cannot detach from the ground.
Menstrual cycles can be affected by extreme thinness (Sun is pretty thin), extreme obesity, trauma, birth control medications or hormonal changes. If she is only 8 weeks along, it is possible, if she has had irregular periods in the past, to not know by the “oh-I-missed-my-period” method. Also, it is possible to have a very light period the first couple of months and still maintain the pregnancy…it happened to me! Besides, with all the drama of the plane crash, keeping secrets, survival, kidnapping, etc. she may just have lost track of her cycle…you know…”out of sight, out of mind”.
April 26th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Connie and Mel — good points, and well taken. I know a fair amount about this stuff but as I have only one X chromosome I will of course respectfully defer to your knowledge.
I would have expected that if Sun was worried (what with having had multiple sexual partners before departure, and knowing that she is fertile and Jin is not) about possibly being pregnant by Baldie, that she might have paid more attention.
April 26th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
I think Juliette is lying about the child being conceived on the island for two reasons: 1) it spares Sun the shame of knowing that the father is not Jin, and 2) when the healthy baby is born, she will be able to take responsibility, declare her work done, and (so she believes) get a trip home.
April 26th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Great point jaimeroberto!
April 26th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Excellent jroberto!!!
If she can claim that Sun concieved on island ,take credit with a few treatments, she could petition for release…
However,Paradox
Paradox
in as such….
“‘I always lie’ is a paradox because if it is true it must be false”
Our Ben is classic example of such a Paradoxical theme.
Having said, “My word is my bond,” and yet he has lied to Juliet in effect,through his manipulations.
April 26th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
One thing I’ve been noticing this season is that all the Losties have major issues with a parent or parental figure in their life:
Jack – with his dad
Locke – dad
Kate – mom
Clair – dad
Sun – dad
Jin – mom
Hurley – dad (and mom)
Charlie – older brother
The main character’s whose parental issues we haven’t seen yet are Sayid, Desmond and Sawyer. Even dead Losties (Ana Lucia with her mom, Shannon with her step-mom, and Eko with his brother) had beef with their family.
This parental disloyalty issue, coupled with the recurring story line about pregnant women on the island has to mean something. What it means, I have no idea… thought?
April 26th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
They are starting to milk this cow “Dry.” Why don’t they get to the point. Their were tons of episodes where not much happened. Now, there are twists and turns, so many that I’m starting to forget where the road was.
I’m almost at the point where I don’t care anymore, but I am trying to hold out. I feel like a kid who is trying to swim with an anchor. They need to get to the dam point.
I put up with the writers crap when they “introduced” the other survivors. Then, they did the “biography” thing, which didn’t help the plot in my opinion. The writers are paying more attention with the past, than the future. Yes, I did like the little flashbacks. “LITTLE” flashbacks, but give it a rest.
Sorry to not be so chipper, but I have been down the road of “never” ending plots that drag on forever till the ratings drop. Then, the whole series moves forward at 100 mph. If I had to do it all over again, I would not watch this series, nor would I recommend it to anyone.
Static water will kill anything in it, except algae. Lost has gone static, and I hope it will connect the pieces to the puzzle before I lose interest, which I almost have.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
I hope that we get some more answers.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Steve, I am not religious at all, but I will pray for you. Don’t miss the boat before it leaves the pier!
Has everyone given up on the (admittedly outlandish) idea that Michael could be the father of Sun’s baby? Check your Season One DVDs: there is a brief window of opportunity when Jin and Sun were not getting along at all, and one of the major issues was that (justifiably or not) Jin thought Sun was getting too close to Michael. Wasn’t he also the first person to know that Sun spoke English? That would explain how the child was conceived on the island — but I will concede that this may be too much for some people to accept.
And I am leaning strongly in the direction of the Tsunami plot thread, even perhaps that the island itself will cause it!
April 26th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Then stop watching, Steve. Seriously. Lots of us don’t want it to get to the point just yet. When it gets to the point, it’s over. Some people don’t get that. The whole point is figuring out what’s going on. What happens when we figure it out? We watch Kate and Jack make cute on the beach for however many seasons it runs after all the questions are answered. No thanks. Give me confusing plots and an army of characters any day. Neat, tied up ends are for people who watch “American Idol”.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
HOW interesting!!!! I think that Juliet wants Sun’s baby to get off the island, as I believe Ben promised her he will allow her off the island if she delivers a health baby without the mother dying.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Yet another Christianity reference….Naomi was speaking in tongues….
The appearance of a living and breathing Mikhail still has me spinning. I’m just trying to wrap my head around that one.
I’m wondering who was with Naomi, since she wasn’t alone, and where that other person landed. I’ll go out on a limb and say that that person is still alive, ready to throw a monkey wrench into the works.
A part of me is thinking that Juliette is lying about the date of conception – to get off the island, she needs to produce a live baby with a live mother. If she moves the d.o.c. up to island-time, then, voila! Sun lives and gets to believe that Jin is the father, and Juliette thinks that she’ll get to go home. Since Juliette’s a master manipulator, I wouldn’t put that past her. I have to add a disclaimer though – I’m not completely convinced of my own theory.
April 26th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Ha Ha.. I’m pretending to be Tawl !!!!!! And having more fun than Ben !!!
HOOO MYYYY GODDDDD !!!!… what an end !!!
April 26th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
hahaha this kid is sad… I break is heart… dont cry little baby… its just TV show… be a man !!
April 27th, 2007 at 3:18 am
Jaimeroberto — GREAT call. I love the duplicity of the show, Juliet and Ben in particular. It’s what makes them such compelling characters… we WANT to trust them but never know when we can.
Mita — Sawyer’s parents were both killed by a con man, and he himself then became one. He also has an illegitimate daughter that he abandoned. I would call those family issues. =) There is also the rampant speculation that Locke’s dad is the “original Sawyer,” who killed Sawyer (James Ford)’s parents.
I would add Jin having Dad issues as well; he is ashamed enough of his father to lie about whether he’s alive. And Desmond had “brother” issues (kicked out of the Army) and “father” issues (with Penny’s pops), but that’s more of a stretch. Michael and Walt have themselves and Michael’s ex-wife. Sayid you could maybe make a case about the fraterntiy of war/the Republican Guard. Plus there is some yet-to-be-revealed connection between Locke (who inspected Nadia’s house) and Sayid, as well as Kate (her ‘dad,’ the one in the Army) and Desmond (via Kelvin). All stretches, I realize. (And add Ana Lucia and her mom… and her baby.)
April 27th, 2007 at 4:21 am
Loved this episode. Random thoughts:
1. The oxygen mask on the parachute women didn’t make any sense. Helicopters don’t normally fly high enough to need them. They don’t have much range either, so it must have come from nearby. I suspect the writers did this for dramatic effect when they revealed that she wasn’t Desmonds girlfriend.
2. Mikail was injured temporarily by the fence but didn’t die and was rapidly healed by the island (as he himself explained about the injuries to the girl).
3. The others that came with the girl could explain why he so readily gave up the Satphone. He knew they would have communications equipment too.
4. Juliet may have been lying to Sun about the date of her pregnancy, but she told Ben (on the recorder) that Sun was pregnant and that the husband was sterile prior to coming to the island. Maybe she was lying to both…
5. Nice to see the writers acknowledge and correct one of my beefs with this show: that none of the Losties seem to talk to each other about the extraordinary things that happen to them.
6. Maybe the force that destroyed Flt 815 is part of a rift or temporal distortion that shifted them into a sort of parallel universe that scientists often speculate about. Jumping a big shark, but somethings got to explain why no one can find the island. They existed in two (or more) places at the same time. Someone above explained this quantum theory.
This part of the season has been great and restored my faith in the writers. Every thing is moving along and some past mysteries explained, while new ones are created. Those of you who want to have everything wrapped up neatly need to go watch some other show. I for one dread the day that everything is finally explained. The show will be over. I don’t want it to end.
April 27th, 2007 at 5:06 am
Mikael may have jacked the SatPhone because it was a means to disrupt the status quo,in that the 815ers may have been able to tap into outside world.
I loved Hugo playing with SatPhone..”Mom, Hello Mom/”.
A wild thought(s) and questions …:
—he dead people and we assume one was a child (Tonka toy truck) in the pi$$ed off burned face Polar Bear cave? Who were they and does that tie into Roger “Workman”, and even Eko’s Priest Brother as they had been dead/mummified for about
same amount of time. AND where is the piolet of that plane and the other gunman who was on the “HeroineExpress” from Africa to South Pacific, ‘815 was “Sydneyto LA non stop”
— Danielle landed on the island on Big Boat..Right? and iit had been swept wwwwaaayyyyy inland,by a tsunami possibly?
One of the scenes for next week was a mass exodus by our 815ers away from beach, Big wave??
when Locke told Paulo to bury his stash further inland was that again a foretelling of tidal mayhem??
April 27th, 2007 at 5:43 am
Mita:
I would defiantly say Sawyer has parental issues. He witnessed his Dad murder his mother.
Dave:
If I remember correctly, the original Sawyer didn’t kill James’ parents, but his (James’) dad killed his mother and then himself. I do agree that Jen has parental issues as well.
All:
I agree with the idea that Juliette may want to misrepresent the DOC for her own purposes, but I’m not convinced that would work. I don’t think they (Ben’s crew) are going to take that on her word alone, though I’m not sure what else they would base it on since their doctor (Ethan) is dead.
Does anyone remember when Sun’s DOC was according to Juliette, as in how long she was supposedly on the Island at that point? If it was recent, then it would look suspicious if this healthily baby was born at six months after the “DOC”. If the true DOC was shortly after their arriving at the Island, then it wouldn’t look so suspicious.
I guess all of this hinges upon what the DOC was that Juliette gave her, which I don’t remember. Just from a reasoning standpoint. I can
April 27th, 2007 at 6:01 am
If Ben and his Other henchpeople donned gas masks to make their quickie escape, perhaps people coming TO to Island (the mysterious as yet to be revealed way and not by boat or plane) also have to wear special breathing apparatus.
Also, I don’t think that the Black Rock was Danielle’s boat…I think that has supposedly been there for a long, long time.
Stories with family themes are as old and primal and universal as you can get. Everyone comes from somewhere and everyone at one time or other has family issues…it’s the ultimate universally understood plot line. It crosses age, time and national barriers. On this show alone we have Africans, Brits, Koreans, Hispanics, Americans, French…it’s all the same story…family at the same time gives us our greatest joy and our greatest sorrows.
April 27th, 2007 at 6:10 am
Could it be possible the Mikael is not really mikael? We know that the smoke monster can assume other forms. Someone stated that they heard the smoke monster noise right after Hurley shot off the flare gun, and suddenly Mikael appears. Maybe Smokey in disguise?
April 27th, 2007 at 6:56 am
MJimbo Part Two
Okay…. now what?!
Which theories (which have never been labeled ’stoopid’) are now valid?
-Kate HAS to be pregnant
-There IS a time loop
-The dead DON’T stay dead
Are we watching the same show? If you hear hoof steps do you automatically think horse or Zebra?
What happened to last week’s promise?
April 27th, 2007 at 7:03 am
to vinny2cubes, I too, was happy to see one of my beefs corrected by the writers. When Mikhail was in custody, I told my wife, “Oh no, none of these Losties will know who Patchy is because they NEVER talk to each other”. I was wrong, Charlie knew everything about Patchy. Thank you writers, and keep it up.
April 27th, 2007 at 7:12 am
It’s funny… I never have been and never will be a fan of the “supernatural” elements of this show and the theories behind it (e.g. the time loop theorists, the purgatory theorists, the alternate reality theorists, Desmond’s visions, and DL and CC’s repeated protestations on their official podcast that they’re not all zombies or made up or anything). I like to think that there is a possible (though perhaps not very realistic explanation to all of this).
If anyone has seen “The Prestige,” it’s similar to that. It seems you have no idea how something happens, but when you learn how it did, it’s so stupefyingly simple that the elegance of it is all the more amazing.
That being said, I have no possible explanation for the “magical healing properties” of the island.
- Some of it could be coincidence or mind over matter (Locke walking… maybe he healed or his wheelchair use was a somatization disorder after the trauma his father inflicted; Rose feeling well).
- Ben clearly lost his “magical healing” property with the tumor he has.
- Gunshots and penetrating wounds are still lethal.
- Drownings still occur.
- Neck-snappings and head bashings still kill people.
- Sepsis still occurs.
- It’s yet to be seen how well Naomi does and whether her pneumothorax will reaccumulate.
Is there other evidence to suggest that people either do or don’t get sick/die? I’m curious what other people recall. Try to remain somewhat skeptical, as with Mikhail… looking dead and being dead are two different beasts.
I would hesistate to dismiss any of these theories, but maybe I’m just more a “Man of Science” than a “Man of Faith.” =)
April 27th, 2007 at 7:46 am
I’m with you Dave. I’ve been a Man of Science this whole time. Desmond’s future seeing and the Smoke Monster are giving me fits, however. I can’t think of a logical, scientific explanation there. So, I suppose I’ll accept that 5% of Lost can be paranormal.
Thusly, the parachute girl’s claim that the 815 wreckage was found and there were no survivors is all a big lie! Don’t fall for it again, I say! She’s obviously in cohoots with Patchy, just as Ryan pointed out. Her “revelation” does nothing to prove any of the time-loop or alternate timeline theories, in my opinion.
Mikhail being healed by the island? Possibly, but I think there’s some trickery involved that we have yet to find out. The island healing Locke and Rose is still unproven. Locke and Rose only believe the island healed them, as we have yet to receive any real proof.
Which leads me to a question I have not seen posed here yet. Why didn’t the island heal Boone? He only died of a badly injured leg. That seems less of an injury than Mikhial sustained. Somehow then, Mikhail faked it.
Except for a few immature posters, this is the best Lost comments section out there. This place rules!!
April 27th, 2007 at 7:56 am
calsliman-
-Mikael is Alive ,the “dead do return”.
-”Time loop in effect’ at least in Desmonds visions, Kate IS Pregnant. ( accept it ). All proclaimed by you, my foil, as worthless ideas.
and as far as Promises ,consider me “Ben” ,because I have only interest in what is best for Island. You are simply an object to be manipulated. The games’ afoot
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
April 27th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Random thoughts by NuckinFuts –
Chapter 1. Sun’s Baby
I was under the impression that Sun’s family business may yet prove to have ties to the island. Just like Widmore, HANSO, DHARMA , etc. have been long speculated as a joint venture I was sure people thought Paik Industries ( or whatever it is called ) was just as suspicious.
As a twist, the doctor who told Sun that Jin was “shooting blanks” may have done this from the order of Mr. Paik. The doctor admitted to Sun that he knew Jin worked for Mr. Paik, but what if he himself did as well. Mr. Paik never approved of their marriage and perhaps he thought by forcing the doctor to tell Sun that Jin was incapable of becoming a father it would cause a rift between them that would ultimately end up in Sun’s choice to leave Jin.
No matter what has occurred between Juiet and Sun, this could be part of the overall scheme.
….just a thought….
Chapter 2. Chopper-Girl
I like the idea above about the Chopper-Girl speaking in tounges. As far as my understanding of this goes she would have no idea as to what she was saying or who it was directed to. Besides that, she had just crash landed in a tree and was hanging for about 12 hours and was traumatized. I think it is much too early to be speculating her future role, and especially anything she said to Patchy. The only real tie to anyone so far is Desmond. He is the only one she mentioned by name and of course she had the photo. That’s as far as I’m willing to go this week.
Chapter 3. Majic Land
In an earlier post I described what I thought could be a semi-satisfying explanation to the islands properties. I still think my overall theory is holding up, however, I am with Dave on healing. If we think back, several people who have died have definately died. If everyone who died on the island came back to life the whole Island would be crawling w/ zombies and nobody would be watching this show. The deputy that had Kate in custody is a prime example. He had wounds that did not heal…but perhaps they were not given a chance. Sawyer shot him in the end. Game over for him. I like the idea that penetrating wounds, loss of blood and things of that nature last forever ( until death at least ), but intrenal wounds / disabilities / functions may be corrected by the island.
In a way, perhaps the island not only corrects some types of internal wounds, but it also corrects mental defects ( on Losties ) as well. Many people on the island ( most of whom are dead ) had issues in their lives that were sorted out before they died. Hurley is no longer on medication for mental illness. Charlie is off drugs. Sawyer is almost learning to say he’s sorry. The island’s properties may have some things to do with these actions as well as curing Locke, Rose, and Patchy.
Chapter 4. Patchy
Whoever said someting about this : Patchy definitely did not see the chopper coming from his right eye and did’nt see it from his original spy lab…it is blown up…
Chapter 5. Ping Pong
I think I could beat Hurley at ping pong. Strangely…I can’t wait to see Benry and I don’t want anyone to kill him. I was the 2nd smoke monster on the grassy knoll. John Locke has some splainin’ to do. I got Sun Pregnant, but I’ll let Jin take care of daddy duty!
The End.
April 27th, 2007 at 9:32 am
Since Mr. Kwon (Jin’s “father”) admitted that he doesn’t know if he’s the real father of Jin, would anyone be surprised if Jin’s father turns out to be the guy from Dharma videos?
April 27th, 2007 at 10:06 am
BECAUSE THEY’RE BOTH AZN HAHAHA.
God.
I thought it was a good episode. I agree that Sun just running off with Juliette was strange. I…. don’t really have any other opinions about the episode. I don’t know why. I am very excited for next week’s episode, though.
April 27th, 2007 at 10:25 am
note to losthsv: Dr. Candle/Waxman could be Jin’s dad, but so could Mr. Paik. Ut-oh, let’s hope not. But he certainly would be the type to visit prostitutes. Let’s not forget Kate’s Army dad, either. He served in Korea.
April 27th, 2007 at 10:54 am
“Dr. Candle/Waxman could be Jin’s dad, but so could Mr. Paik. Ut-oh, let’s hope not. But he certainly would be the type to visit prostitutes. Let’s not forget Kate’s Army dad, either. He served in Korea.”
Jin definitely looks 100% Korean so I don’t think he’s part white. Even the crazy writers for Lost would not have Paik being Jin’s dad and then make Sun pregnant. That’s just too disgusting.
April 27th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
…
April 28th, 2007 at 1:35 am
hahaha Jin is a son of a bitch !!
April 28th, 2007 at 1:38 am
I know it was a few posts ago.. but cheers to Jen for explaining what many of us feel…. I’d rather have several seasons of good mystery and questions than one quick (albeit certainly satisfying) week or two of answers. Keep the mysteries coming.
Plus, I don’t really want to get into the middle of a spat between some contributors here, BUT… Kate might be pregnant but there is absolutely NO evidence now that she is, Juliet simply told Ben on the tape recorder that she would get samples from “Austen and the other women” presumably to test.
Mikhail has either resurrected or was not dead in the first place but that doesn’t mean that all the dead come back to life on this island (ask Goodwin (decaying corpse that Eko and Jin found), Colleen Pickett (sent out to sea in a funeral pyre), and Roger (body found by Hurley in the Dharma Van) etc.
And for the last time Artz is not, nor has he ever been an Other.
April 28th, 2007 at 1:43 am
Sorry, I forgot to add one more thought of my own: Don’t you think Mikhail gave up the satellite phone a little too easily? It was almost like he had taken two or more things from the bag and when Jin only asked for the phone back he was all too happy to give it up because he would be able to keep what he really wanted… problem with this theory is that the only things they showed Naomi having were a Portugese book, a hula girl toy, and a pic of Desmond and Penny, not sure what the value of any of those items would fetch on the Dharma black market.
April 28th, 2007 at 2:24 am
1) Maybe Sun’s mother had an affair (just like Sun did) and Mr. Paik is NOT her father; but Paik IS Jin’s bio-dad with the prostitute. Maybe Jin’s fisherman dad was once a mover and shaker in Korean circles and had to go into hiding. He could be Sun’s bio-dad. It’s wacked-out, but so is this show.
2) Dave is right. Some injuries are too severe for the island to heal — they’re off the payrole.
3) Brian, Mikhail DID give up the phone too easily. His whole appearance seemed staged to me. My favorite Mikhail Moment was back at the Flame when he threw that crappy pitcher of ice tea at Locke and missed at 4-feet. Maybe because he has only one eye, but I think the patch is a mini satellite dish.
April 29th, 2007 at 4:14 am
For the one who ask about where Jin learn martal art… we can presume he learn with his fisherman father… cause the man have a trophy in his little house… or maybe its a Jin’s trophy…
April 29th, 2007 at 4:48 am
its probably a government conspiracy… they told in the news they found the 815plane and no survivors..but they know its not true and know where the island is….like they told us they dont know about 9/11
April 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
NorCal Matt — Regarding Boone’s leg… maybe he was septic or he developed an embolus or went into acute kidney failure. There is some kind of pattern to the healing on the island… whether it’s mental (perhaps Locke only thinking he can’t walk in a sort of conversion disorder or Rose believing she’s cured because she feels well) or physical (cancerous cells don’t grow, nerve fibers grow faster). But some things seem to just move too quickly. It is a good question… he’s had the one injury that might not have been lethal, but was. And Sawyer somehow got better from his GSW… albeit with antibiotics.
NuckinFuts — cool theories. Keep ‘em coming.
Regarding Naomi and Mikhail… one thing to keep in mind is that Desmond was NOT on flight 815. Naomi (aka Chopper Girl) had no reason to expect that 815 was there on the island. (Perhaps the initial disturbance that tuned Penny into the possibility of where Des might be was the crash of 815, but when the Swan hatch “melted down” was when Penny was notified by the Portugese-speaking men at the end of Season 2. So she would not be looking for 815 and have no expectation of finding it, and any reports she heard she would have no reason to doubt. Think back to the days after September 11th or any other tragedy… the assumption is often that there are no survivors. The only way anyone would know that there were surviviors would be if the Losties contacted the “rest of the world,” or if the Others spread the news.
OR… maybe Naomi is in with the Others and they are associated with Widmore Labs (which would explain all the supply drops and the apparent connection to Widmore). It also might explain how Penny is able to track down Des but nobody else has found the island. (Maybe Naomi can go back and forth like Richard, the guy who looks like he’s wearing eyeliner.) Maybe Mikhail communicates w/ her through the satellite phone, and he was trying to conceal his complicity in this, but once it was discovered he felt no need to hide that she had the phone or that he tried to take it. (Maybe it’s a Dharma/Others closed circuit?) He could have told her where to go to find Des.
I don’t know… I am grasping at straws a bit here, but keep in mind:
- Desmond somehow washed up on the island in a sailboat.
- He lived there for three years in a hatch that the Others could easily monitor, yet they never bothered him and he never knew of them.
- Now that Penny is looking for Des (and thinks she knows where to look), all of a sudden a new person shows up on the island with a picture of Des, and Mikhail, who has tried to shoot the Losties, instead saves Naomi’s life.
- NONE of the others except for Juliet (and maybe not even her?) seems to know Des, has met Des, has discussed him, knows anthing about him. Which is NOT the case for the other Losties. (Maybe I am wrong?)
- Maybe this explains where he was when he “disappeared?”
Also, regarding mental illness and the island and Des’s “flashbacks:” His flashbacks could also be a form of mental illness. PTSD from being at the epicenter of the meltdown. Latent psychosis from being alone on the island for however long and drinking like a fish. (Maybe his daily injections were Haldol?) Who knows? But to ignore that possibility that this could be a psychiatric issue (and yet believe that Hurley could see his invisible friend Dave both on and off the island) in favor of a “time loop” is a bit too much of a stretch for me.
April 29th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Only have one thing to add, Ana Lucia told Micheal that some of the tail section surviors had gotten sick and died in the episode where they collided. Oh, yeah I also don’t think that the sonic fence was on when Locke pushed patchy through it because you did not see the air moving in waves like when smoky tried to go through it, also if it had been on patchy would not have made it to the other side.
April 29th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
This season HAS been great…I’ve come thisclose to peeing my pants during the last few episodes. Thanks for the AWESOME recaps, by the way. My husband watch Lost every week, then run straight to the computer to read your entertaining posts.
April 30th, 2007 at 2:59 am
I’ll admit right off the bat that I do not put in as much thought as most of you about the different theories….but i love reading yours, but here are a few thoughts to throw out there…..tear them up people….haha
1) the issue with the identical photograph….des and parachute girl….is it remotely possible that during desmonds “outings” (they obviously could be watching him) they photocopied the picture……..but why???
2) perhaps desmond is the “key” somehow…the injections perhaps were to limit his “flashes”….or keep them in control….while keeping him in a secure location as well…..and the others are a bit worried he could stumble upon something….perhaps that breaks the time loop??…or answers questions we all would like to know more about…the origin/true meaning behind the others/dharma/widmore…whatever it is….OR….maybe they were a way of making him “See” things to set him up for something??
3) the fact that none of the others seem to know him means nothing…we know they are very smart and deceptive…and the writers want us to believe they have no idea about him….
4) perhaps helicopter girl was sent as a total scam by the others to “remove” des from the losties….she may try to offer him a 1person-1way ticket off the island, only to bring him back to “jail” or what have you….since the others know of his ability, and know what happens, perhaps he is “Stalling” their plans by saving charlie or whatever he changes….and they want things to go smoothly…..
5)last one…sorry….what if the others implanted something into his brain….while he was alone…or with the losties (after the hatch blew up) to allow him to see things….contradicts them trying to keep him secret…but who knows …maybe someone out there can figure it out more thoughtfully than my rambles…haha…
thanks!!!…love the site…love the comments….
peace.
April 30th, 2007 at 9:51 am
I remember an episode (way back) where Locke put some kind of “yellow” goo on an open wound on Boone’s head. Boone went on an hallucinogenic trip where he saw his sister Shannon get pulverized by Smokey. Following the trip, Locke asked Boone how his sister’s death made him feel, and he said something like, “relieved”.
1) How could have Locke known the specific “trip” Boone would go on?
2) Then might the Others have the technology to be supplying Des with “specific” visions? As he continues to save Charlie, is he redeeming himself?
3) Des was the only person injecting the yellow drug — and Ethan gave Claire a dose. Is the yellow substance something like a programable LSD?
May 1st, 2007 at 3:01 am
Bill — Des’s daily IM injection and Claire’s occasional intrauterine injection are probably not the same thing despite the similarity of the vials, in my opinion.
EnviroCaper — I thought there was a moment in DOC where the picture seems pretty clearly color copied/scanned. (The picture is on a larger sheet of paper than a photo print.)
Regarding the Others knowing Desmond… they learned about the survivors of 815 by getting names and perhaps procuring a manifest. But unless Kelvin was feeding the Others information — and my inclination is that he was working for Dharma and was not an Other, especially since he seemed to think he could get off the island by sailboat — that even though they could see Des, they couldn’t know much about him (e.g. name or get other info). UNLESS there was a plot to get him to the island (Libby gave him a boat, he has a connection to Widmore). The Others may have “left well enough alone” as with Rousseau and decided to live and let live. He clearly didn’t know about them aside from what Kelvin has told him regarding the “Hostiles.”
Also — the official Lost podcast clearly insinuates that Naomi is either lying about the lack of survivors, or that the crash was “staged” by some larger organization and that’s why she thought there were no survivors. They sort of dismissed the wormhole theory.
May 1st, 2007 at 3:33 am
Dave, are you talking about the Polaroid picture of Des and Penny looking copied? People usually spin these mysterious things into outragous therories. I think there is a simple explanation to the existence of the two photos. Good writers can be like good magicians — they adeptly divert attention to some inane thing while the trick is set up.
They seem to have hundreds of story threads going here. Not always, but usually the 10 PM time slot is the kiss of death from a network. This has to be an expensive program to produce and I bet the actors are tired of being wet, dirty, running through the jungle and not getting enough screen time. I had heard the producers want to, at least, make it to 100 episodes. Has anyone heard anything? This is a great program and this has been a rock n’ roll season.
May 1st, 2007 at 7:01 am
Bill, yes. There is the original instant photo of Des and Penny that he has. She has (had?) another in her home. But the one Naomi has in “Ardil-22″ looked like it was on an 8.5 x 11″ sheet of paper folded in half. There is a significant border. (I’m sure someone out there has a vid cap.) I think my post was confusing… I think there are at least 2 (if not more) copies of the photo… I was agreeing with EnviroCaper that this clearly appeared to be a photocopy rather than an original image (which some use as further support for a “time loop” theory).
May 1st, 2007 at 11:47 am
Dave, I went back to Catch-22 and made 2 interesting screen captures of the famous Des and Penny Polaroid. Desmond has the original in his possesion. It’s about a 3 1/2″ x 5″, horizontal, glossy stock, 3/8″ white border, lots of harsh shadows — taken on a very sunny day. It’s been folded in half and folded again. Penny has a copy that she keeps on a nightstand (I think). I sure wish I knew which episode I remembered that from. Maybe 2006 final.
Copter Girl’s version is definately a scanned, ink jet copy on an ordinary sheet of paper. Less contrast, softer, less detail, taken on an overcast day and has no white border at all but is surrounded with gray.
Here’s the kicker! It’s a different pose. There are similarities, but man, it’s different. Desmond doesn’t look like the same guy. And I remember Hurley saying as he looked at Copter Girls’ photo, “Hey, is that you?”
This is remarkable. I’ll post these photos for a short time on my company’s web site. http://www.shatrshield.com/desphotos.html
May 1st, 2007 at 11:53 am
Dave, I went back to Catch-22 and made 2 interesting screen captures of the famous Des and Penny Polaroid. Desmond has the original in his possesion. It’s about a 3 1/2″ x 5″, horizontal, glossy stock, 3/8″ white border, lots of harsh shadows — taken on a very sunny day. It’s been folded in half and folded again. Penny has a copy that she keeps on a nightstand (I think). I sure wish I knew which episode I remembered that from. Maybe 2006 final.
Copter Girl’s version is definately a scanned, ink jet copy on an ordinary sheet of paper. Less contrast, softer, less detail, taken on an overcast day and has no white border at all, but is surrounded with gray.
Here’s the kicker! It’s a totally different pose. There are similarities, but man, it’s different. Desmond doesn’t look like the same guy, either. And I remember Hurley saying as he looked at Copter Girls’ photo, “Hey man, is that you?”
This is remarkable. I’m leaving a website address where I present the photos but don’t know if it will be posted.
May 1st, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Bill-Wow, they are different! Production continuity error or…??????????
May 1st, 2007 at 4:20 pm
They are different…but I don’t know if this means anything.
I’ve played that game w/ photos of bikini models in a bar where you circle the differences for points. Most of the time it’s models, sometimes it’s a nature scene or something. It is always best when they are pictures of models. All I can tell you in the end was that I was wasting my time when I should have been dancing and trying to get laid, not playing video games at a bar.
That’s how I feel about the photos so far…I’m waiting for the show to make it obvious to me that it is an interactive experience. I think for our own reasons some of us have taken it upon ourselves to do this ( get online and talk/share/discuss), myself included. But some people to an even greater extent than I have so far. It is fun to come here a few minutes a week and comment, but I don’t feel the producers have ever made it clear to me that it was my job as a loyal viewer to do this.
I think the photos might be a little different because of production errors. When the show tells me it is a must to go online, and it is a must to be part of an interactive experience, then I’ll pay more attention to stuff like this. Have the producer’s ever said that as a viewer I am supposed to go to the internet to see if someone had on green socks or red, was holding a baseball bat or a softball bat, was throwing up or puking? I don’t think that the average viewer of this show would ever get that…and I would like to know before I get into something as simple as a t.v. show that it is going to take that much more demanded devotion before I decide that is for me.
This has already taken on a life of it’s own, in as much as I am here commenting. Whereas, with Deal or No Deal I can fastfoward through the b.s. and get to the money shot. I love this show for it’s intracacies, but I don’t want to be burdened w/ the mis-belief of every single thing I see on the show. Perhaps, if the producers say that I’ve got to devote all of my energy to this show is when I’ll take my lessons learned from wasting my time and money on the photo-finder games at the bars and spend more time on Wednesdays to try and get laid rather than being a viewer…probably…then again it’s pretty good stuff.
NuckinFuts~
“Chip chip chip chip chip chip chip….Neddy!” “The photos are different!”
May 1st, 2007 at 6:33 pm
To me it looked like a different girl. Desmond is clean shaven, but the girl looks different. Same place though.
May 1st, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Bill, Incredible find!! I’m 50/50 on what it means on a grand scale. We should probably not nit-pick so much and just assume it’s the same photo. But then again, this is Lost. I’m flabbergasted. These obviously different photos are gonna make the time-warp theorists very happy. Could the photos have been taken at the same time on alternate timelines? In one timeline Desmond was given the photo, and in the other timeline Penny was given the photo? I can’t believe I’m writing this. I HATE all of the time-warp, time loop, alternate timeline theories.
Anyways, all you time guys go for it! Now you have some evidence…
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:39 am
Thanks, Bill.
My 2 cents: Definitely different pictures. Highly unlikely to be anyone but Des and Penny. Taken in what appears to be the same place while wearing the same clothing. Maybe the instant photo guy actually took two shots? Just because it wasn’t explicitly shown to us doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
I suppose they could easily be Photoshopped as well… someone who looks like Des (remeber the Other who looks like Des from season 2) in the same place with Penny (or someone who looks like her).
Depends how paranoid/skeptical you want to be.
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:06 am
The two photos are not a continuity gaff. Someone is going to a lot of trouble to make something obvious to us. Not only are Des and Penny posed differently, the backgrounds have slight differences, too! Remember, this was a fake, Olan Mills background. Hopefully I’ll have more on this tomorrow. I thought there would be a simple explanation, but (I hate to admit it) this really gives fuel to the time loopers.
Anyone know how or where I can watch a copy of the episode, “Flashes Before Your Eyes”? ABC used to post a bunch of episodes, but now only offers the last 4 or so. ABC – give me more LOST and less According to Jim.
May 2nd, 2007 at 5:17 am
Different photos of Des = Different Time-Loops
The writers spent a whole episode explaining Time-Loops, I doubt we can dismiss it and say that these don’t exist.
And if the TIme-Loop explaination is only in Desmond’s mind, then how come he can see into the future?
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:07 am
I think the difference in the photos is an attempt at continuity between when we first see the photo in season 2 and when the photo is “taken” in season 3. They had take “take” the photo during the episode and that’s the one we’re seeing in this last episode. The first photo was taken before the episode was shot. They tried their best in the episode to make them identical, but they didn’t quite make it. Just my opinion.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:20 am
San Diego Dan go lost.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:36 am
WoW…great observations….brotha’s
Quick idea on the differences…..
Is it at all possible (well anything is possible really in this show) that the “others” / Widmore / Hanso / Dharma had someone tailing Des/Penny throughout this portion of their life??…knowing what they know about him or don’t know for that matter….is it possible that rather than a time loop idea causing problems with the picture….that a “spy” took the picture from a different angle than the real photographer….????…perhaps with the intent to monitor/trail Penny or Des / find out who she/he was hanging out with…or something along those lines???
PERHAPS Penny found the “spy” pic. and rebelled against her father/Hanso/whoever and kept it for herself (her copy) and than hired the two Portugese guys (and eventually heligirl wiht photocopy) to find him?? Maybe she is “Jacob” and caused the whole thing on her own b.c. of how disappointed she was with Des. for leaving….knowing about the island from previous research her father was involved in….and hoped he would have the opportunity to “change” things later on in life when he realized how much he loved her…..who knows…not me…but if “they” had planned to have Des “disappear” from the real world, they would need a picture to find out about his “progress” on the island later on in life….and/or what changes happened to him….and/or for Kelvin(?) to find him on the island to distinguish him from the hostiles???
CAN’T WAIT FOR 2NITE….
peace
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:02 am
EnviroCaper — I was thinking many of these thoughts in the moments before I scrolled down here.
Anybody who bothers to read my posts (hopefully someone does, though I suspect the numbers are dwindling
) knows I’m not a big fan of the Time Loop theory. I like the above explanation much better. Not to throw out yet another eponym, but there is a principle called Occum’s razor which states (and I paraphrase) that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. So “maybe someone else took a picture of Penny and Des at that moment” is far more plausible than “maybe it’s all a time loop and all the laws of space and time that we take for granted are suspended for Lost.”
We know Des and Mr Widmore weren’t the best of friends, and that Widmore is a powerful guy who may at least be tangentially connected to the island.
Lost is sci-fi. Clearly it’s not all literally plausible, but with few exceptions (the smoke monster, anyone? though maybe we’ll get an answer on the one) has all been very grounded in REALITY.
That being said… I thought the time loop/wormhole thing in Donnie Darko was KICK ASS.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:06 am
And one more plug/smoke monster theory, not that anyone asked…
I posted once before about the program Planet Earth on Discovery. There are several animals featured there (locusts being most notable, but some birds and fish as well) that travel in packs and can be so dense as to obscure the sun for minutes at a time and can take hours to pass. Could they lift Eko or drag Locke or kill 815’s pilot? Probably not.
But could they appear as a cloud of black smoke? Sure. There *may* be a hypothetical explanation. Or it may just be nanobots. 
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:06 am
And one more plug/smoke monster theory, not that anyone asked…
I posted once before about the program Planet Earth on Discovery. There are several animals featured there (locusts being most notable, but some birds and fish as well) that travel in packs and can be so dense as to obscure the sun for minutes at a time and can take hours to pass. Could they lift Eko or drag Locke or kill 815’s pilot? Probably not.
But could they appear as a cloud of black smoke? Sure. There *may* be a hypothetical explanation. Or it may just be nanobots. 
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:06 am
Dave, regarding the smoke monster, I’ve thrown around a very oddball theory before that could explain it. Here’s the nutshell. The island is alive? Yes. The island is magnetic? Yes. The island has dirt? Yes. Smoke Monster comes out of the ground? Yes. Smoke Monster is then part of the island? According to this theory, yes. So, with all things being true, then the Smoke Monster is really just a cloud of magnetic island dust/dirt. It is the island in cloud form, so the island controls it, and controls it by magnetic propelling/repelling, just like a magnetic train. This would explain why it Smokey cannot get a certain point above the ground, or else it would lose it magnetic attraction to the island. Anyway, as oddball as it sounds it’s all I’ve ever been able to come up with.
May 2nd, 2007 at 11:43 am
That’s a very cool idea. I have thought about a similar notion, though it wouldn’t explain how the smoke mosnter has a mind of its own and can grab things. It does explain why it can’t go over the sonic fence but could go up a tree. It also explains why it can’t get into clusters of trees (equal and opposing magnetc forces inside would make it seem like a solid object).
Also… Rose in the pilot (? — sometime in season 1 definitely) refers to the noise of the “monster” as sounding like something from her childhood. She also says something (I thought) about being from Brooklyn. Maybe it’s supposed to be reminiscent of a subway or a roller coaster on Coney Island, but your theory would be in keeping along those lines.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 pm
NorCal.. I might take your theory one step further, and speculate that in addition to the Island being alive, the intense magnetic properies are able to trap and cause time and reality to circle around it? My 3-cents
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Bill if you wanna rewatch an episode.. just dowload it… every Thursday the new episode is ready… I have all the seasons (1-2-3) on my computer.. try with Bearshare… or anything else..
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Dave, as far as being able to grab onto things, I would think that the magnetic strength of the smoke monster would be strong enough to tighten the dust particles enough to “grab” onto somebody e.g. Eko. Also, I rewatched the episode where the smoke monster kills Eko, and it grabbed him and pulled up high up into the high, higher it seemed than the sonic fense. But the entire time, the back end of the smoke monster was touching the ground, in essence “grounded” to the island. This theory obviously does not attempt to explain the noises it makes, it’s ability to scan memories and illuminate those memory images onto itself. For real though, I’m so very interested in how the producers will fully explain the smoke monster.
May 2nd, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Don’t know if this is going to confuse things, but I just rewatched the Season 2 finale. As Desmond is being discharged from the Royal Scots military prison the guard goes through his belongings. As the guard hands him the photograph there’s a nice screenshot… and it’s the second photograph pose that Bill posted, the same posed photo photocopy that Naomi-chute had.
June 24th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
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