Catch-22
One thing’s for sure, Desmond episodes are different beasts entirely. Most of the way, I wasn’t exactly sure where “Catch 22″ was going, and while I loved some of the a-ha moments, tonight’s episode really felt more like half of one. Of course, that’s to be expected as we near the season finale. Jen admitted to being somewhat “meh” on it, too, with Kate’s return to Sawyer feeling more like fan-fic than canon. But with flash forwards mixed in with everything else, It’s hard to compare “Catch 22″ to the usual fare. I have to say, “Catch 22″ made “Flashes Before Your Eyes” seem all the more brilliant.
Key points in tonight’s episode? Yet another new face on the island, for one… and the mind boggles at how many more ways the writers are going to come up with to do that. But the biggest clue was small, by “LOST” standards: the photo on the friar’s desk.
Oh, sure, it was sweet to see how Desmond and Penny met. But the friar’s talk of Desmond being destined for bigger things was a direct echo of Mrs. Hawking’s jewelry store lecture in “Flashes.” And the picture cinches it: larger forces are in motion to steer Desmond to the island.
This raises more questions, though. Why was Desmond chosen? And when? On the brink of marrying Ruth? Was his blackout and street encounter with the monk part of the plan? Or was it even earlier? And what is his greater destiny? To push the button? To not push the button? Or something else entirely?
Everything else was gravy.
I loved the Bernard shout out, and Jin’s ghost story. Jen liked the Superman v. Flash discussion, even though we heard it twice. Desmond’s mention of taped-up ankles was a nice reference to his running encounter with Jack, and I loved Charlie’s sarcastic reaction to the satellite phone’s failure. “Shocker.” Sawyer found a too-cute loophole in his “no nicknames” deal, and had the night’s top line, “”What, my doorbell busted again?”
The unsubtle mentions of life on the beach somehow getting back to normal was defused well enough: “Enjoy it,” Jack said. “I’m sure something will go wrong soon enough.”
The numbers resurfaced (108 quid per bottle of wine), and heavy Bible talk. Desmond failed where Abraham did not, we presume by not sacrificing Charlie. One wonders, then, how the journey into the forest would have differed had Charlie taken the spear in the neck?
Notes and Notions:
- While the photo of Mrs. Hawking and the friar on the desk was a big deal, we also have confirmation that there are, indeed, now two copies of the Desmond and Penny picture. Desmond had his crumpled one, and the book in the backpack revealed a pristine copy. The first time folks questioned whether there were two photos (when the waterfront photographer gave them only one), I figured it could just be a goof up. Now that the two photos have been prominently introduced, I’m convinced something bigger is going on.
- So the helicopter didn’t make it to the island, running out of gas or mysteriously dying offshore, crashing much like every other ill-fated vessel that’s ventured near. But the parachute and high-altitude suit and mask imply that the mysterious traveler anticipated a rough landing.
- Jen’s not sure what frustrates her more: Jin’s sporadic and sudden grasp of English, or the repeated use of the “language barrier” comedy schtick.
- Has Jen mentioned recently that the love triangle (or trapezoid or whatever) stuff similarly grates?
- Location notes: Most of the flashback took place at the St. Andrew’s grounds, the same church where Charlie sought redemption and where Mr. Eko was sent on his miracle mission.
- Links: “Catch 22″ discussions at TheFuselage.com, Lost-Forum.com and Pop Candy.
April 18th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Could Desmond be seperating these three from 815ers, in order to allow Juliet to do that voo doo that she must do.
I think that it may have been a week TONITE.
They will have seperated Protectors of Mamma/Prego; Claire and Sun, as well as Hurley whom seems to have found a way to ” Make Your Own FATE!!”
Zombies revisited…. Nickie could have been Prego, and they may have been Dug up already by Others…them having Known Future because MR. Science Arntz Told Nickie all about Spiders ability,in advance and having known what was to be, because he knew what was to be,knowing what was to be.
Remember…the Randon quote?: That…”The Pigs are Walking”
April 18th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
you want some answer tonight ?? hahahhaa poor you… at least 10 more questions and its just the half…
April 18th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Please let me know if anyone caught a good glimpse of the picture on the Monk’s desk… it looked like the jewellery store lady but I didn’t get a very good look.
April 18th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
and let me know if anyone caught a good glimpse of Kate ass in the tent !!lolll
April 18th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
3 pictures ?????????
April 18th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
catch-22 ???????
April 18th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Yes the lady in the picture was the same as the one from the jewelry store! I am sure of it!
April 18th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
My favorite bit….Jin telling Korean ghost stories by the fire. Ha!
April 18th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Yes, I saw the picture on the monk’s desk too and it was definitely the lady from the jewelry store.
April 18th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Another good episode. Not int he top ten list, but still good.
The picture on the monk’s desk is effectively of him next to the lady in the jewelry store who told Desmond he could not change things when we first learned about his newly-found ability.
We can speculate that the new character was sent to the island by Penny, but we need to wait to hear what she has to say once she wakes up.
I think MountakJimbo’s theory about leaving the pregnant women unprotected at the beach may be on track of what is to come with Juliet’s mission. I am counting and Juliet has been at the beach camp for three days now!!! We just need to keep waiting to see what is going to happen.
My favorite line: “If we don’t play [ping pong] every 108 minutes, the island is going to explode” Sawyer.
Catch 22 refers to the dilemma Desmond faces: save the junkie and “change the picture,” or let him die according to his flashes. Which tied nicely with the narrative in his flashbacks, about the biblical story of Abraham, and the importance of sacrifice. That is what it meant to me. but other than that (and the picture on the desk), the flashbacks did not really add anything else important to the show’s plot, and seemd a little bit forced. it felt, at times, that this was another fill-in episode to slow things down. I am still waiting to see what the big cable is all about.
Question: After three months, they still have working batteries for the flashlights?
April 18th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
This was just another “fill in the missing pieces” episode where they had to answer questions or at least let the audience know that they haven’t forgotten the loose ends. I’m convinced the writers spend time reading listener comments and addressing the most pressing questions. I liked/disliked (I can’t figure out) the iPhone shout out with the satellite phone. Nothing like pleasing the parent company. I can’t wait to see the new iPod show up on the island. Given the timeline that it is the end of 2004, they seem to end up with the new technology before we do.
April 19th, 2007 at 12:53 am
That Sat phone look familiar to the iPhone?
April 19th, 2007 at 1:17 am
” I liked/disliked (I can’t figure out) the iPhone shout out with the satellite phone. Nothing like pleasing the parent company. ”
The iPhone isn’t being made by ABC, or Disney. Get your facts straight before you start grumbling about them.
The pic on the desk was definitely the jewelry store lady. How does she tie in to the monks? That will be interesting to see
Best part of the epsiode was Jin telling ghost stories in Korean. So funny.
April 19th, 2007 at 1:52 am
Best line? When Sawyer confronted Jack/Juliette and said something to the effect of “Are we discussing are favorite Other?”
April 19th, 2007 at 2:28 am
I thought another great line was where Hurley said to Desmond, just after it began to rain on them, “Thanks for the heads up about bringing an umbrella, dude.”
April 19th, 2007 at 2:48 am
I agree that the episode was a little “meh.” I think it was because we kept seeing the same thing over and over. I was just doing a little googling about Isaac and found out that Abraham and Isaac were on Mt. Mooriah or however it’s spelled, so that’s a nice little shout-out with the wine.
Do you think if Desmond would have let Charlie die that the parachute woman would have been Penny? That’s what’s getting me. Why would it have been Penny? And I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t search for a man who ran away from me for 3 years. No matter how much money I had.
Why do people think Kate is pregnant?
April 19th, 2007 at 3:17 am
While it wasn’t the fastest, most exciting episode, I rather enjoyed the breather… it was getting kinda crazy keeping up with all the stuff being thrown at me! And, I always feel better about the episode after reading Ryan’s (and Jen’s!) synopsis and opinions about it. Thanks for keeping up with this web site – it’s the first place I go on Thursday mornings! Must be cool to recognize some of the locations while you are watching an episode – I’m so jealous! And, it’s nice to hear Ryan’s voice occasionally on the Jay & Jack podcast – maybe some day we’ll hear Jen’s, too?
April 19th, 2007 at 3:23 am
Does anyone remember the psychic that told Claire she HAD to get on the plane? He must be one of the Monk & Mrs. Hawkings People.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:51 am
Blondie,
Many people believe Kate is pregnant because she had unprotected sex with Sawyer in the cages, before last night. Maybe she is not. but we can’t be sure either way.
April 19th, 2007 at 4:40 am
Bryan–
Check this link and read about the partnership between ABC/Disney and Apple. Wouldn’t normally care, but you were the one who made a big stink about someone not having their facts straight.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001304646
That being said, I agree that Jin’s ghost story was the funniest scene in the episode. I loved that they all laughed hysterically at the end. Guess that they’ve got an endless supply of Dharma batteries.
The photo was a really cheesy photoshop, I thought. And I wonder, if the head monk works for The Powers that Be, that are somehow controlling Desmond’s life, why did he allow him to join the monastary to begin with? Was it to set up events just so that Dez and Peny would meet at that very moment? And if ‘the universe has a way of course correcting’, and Dez is destined to be on the island, why does he need all of these guides steering him in the right direction? Won’t he get there anyway?
April 19th, 2007 at 4:55 am
Did anyone catch the language that the “Catch-22″ book was written? Was it Portuguese? This is the book that the parachute gal had that contained the second Desmond/Penny pic.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:28 am
Based on the fact that in Left Behind the closing shot was of Juliet giving a death stare to Desmond, doesn’t it seem possible that Ben sent Juliet there to kill Naomi (parachute girl)? It feels as if Ben knows what is going to happen ahead of time also.
Of course there is the theory floating around that the time rift could mean that Claire’s baby is actually Ben (since Ben said he was born on the island)…which would be why it was so important to save Claire’s baby…
thoughts?
April 19th, 2007 at 5:34 am
Like Marna in NYC, The Transmission is my first destination Thursday mornings — thanks Ryan.
About the number of Desmond/Penny pictures: it’s long be relatively easy to make copies of photographs without having a negative by simply taking a picture of the picture, and theirs was certainly taken recently enough that color photocopies could have been made.
Thanks for the link to the screencap of the photo on the monk’s desk. Although it was seen only momentarily, in slightly soft focus, and seemingly as set dressing to the shot of Desmond handing in his robe, and even though I was watching on a non-HD, non-cabled TV, I could tell it was some kind of important clue, at least for the eagle-eyed fans, so thank you for sparing me having to go back to the videotape (that’s right, no Tivo either, and I tape the episodes as I watch them) to try and figure out who that woman was in the picture.
And let me be the first this week to say, though I understand why you stopped, I still miss the Transmission podcast….
April 19th, 2007 at 5:36 am
I agree with Jen, I certainly could do without the “love triangle”. Let’s just have Kate hot for Sawyer, and that be the reason for them being together.
Carlos – did I miss something about the parachute girl? How did you know her name? Have we seen her before?
April 19th, 2007 at 5:40 am
David, the book was Ardil-22, which is Catch-22 in Portugese.
Wouldn’t it be a shame if the parachutist only speaks Portugese and the 815ers just buried their only Portugese speaker alive? Bummer.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:49 am
Did anyone catch the title of the book that was in the backpack Desmond got from the tree?
April 19th, 2007 at 6:11 am
Kate ,Now must convince James that she wasn’t just doing him as “revenge Shtooping”, she knows she has been caught ..again
And YES, she is Pregnant,Now for sure.
I think Naomi will be killed off ,or at least an attempt, because She Knows everything, Ironic Indeed if she only speaks Portuguese….However Doubtful as she was Probably Pilot of Heliocopter, and Wouldn’t it be a KICK if she was somehow related to Paoulo?
Monk and Jewelry store lady, both Guided Desmond,
Monk Brother KNEW he would be DrunkPassed out in street,
AND he Directed Desmond to Load Wine into SUV with Penny,
SHE,,ASSUMED that he had no Ride and Heck ,She KNEW that he would be there.
She is in on the whole thing somehow.
Bottom Line SOMEONE is going to a Whole Massive Campaign to ghet These People ON Island…
..IF the Fate of the World /Island depends on them running the Program, as it has been PreOrdained then this whole SET-Up is
M A S S I V E.
Every-little Detail has been planned ,doubleblind planned and even reset and controlled a bunch of times..
I think Naomi is a random Factor, as is Desmond,that “Jacob keeps trying to control,
Desmond has been to FUTURE…OR Has been Conditioned to recall
Future Echos when he is triggered,If they(others) can simulate a Plague sickness with Claire and Condition Michael to Blow people away…..Implanting Memories into Des would be a snap…
Speaking of Snap,Nasty Initial 90 seconds of Catch-22 with the Arrow to the throat.zzzzzzzzThunk!!!
Peace I agree Ms. Jen
“Meh”
April 19th, 2007 at 6:43 am
Although Mrs Hawking being connected to the monastery makes sense in the context of them being mysterious forces guiding Desmond to his future/destiny/button/not the button etc, I’m still tempted not to take that way (largely because I seem to be one of the few people who didn’t like Flashes Before Your Eyes – actually that’s unfair, I liked a lot of it, just not Mrs Hawking.)
Her photo could prove something else, perhaps she has a role within the monastry and is someone Desmond has a passing familiarity with, so her appearance in his flashback/future-past/vision is an anachronism, something loose in his brain, perhaps like Charlie’s similar appearance.
I do like the theories surrounding the second photograph, that it represents some sort of splitting point in a linear timeline and so on, but wasn’t the insert in the book a photocopy or printed scan? I know this still leaves the question of how the photograph was copied but as it was not the same physical photograph Desmond has the photo theories could still be a dud, and the truth a bit more banal.
I thought it was a good episode in general, I’m pleased the cast addition is someone already related to the island pre-815 as I think the writers will be getting a little desperate when they start dropping completely fresh faces out of the sky. I enjoyed the group scenes, Hurley’s character has become a really good rock for giving even a little sense of reality. The love trapezoid or whatever it is now was a little cheesy, but at least Kate wasn’t wet. And it was nice to see something between Sawyer and Jack again, their’s is one of the more interesting island friendships. I also liked the Bernard shout out, I hope him and Rose get at least a scene in this series, they’re two of my favourite characters.
As far as it being another UK set flashback this one wasn’t too bad for accuracy. One of the accents was a little dodgy but it was better than most over all, the only slip up that stuck in my head was ‘grape jelly’ and that’s really nothing compared to the magical land Charlie seemed to live in in his flashbacks.
So I’m pretty pleased really. But I think I’ll be happy with anything that brings us closer to what’s happening ‘in a week.’
April 19th, 2007 at 7:03 am
MUmbo JImbo-
No sense make you do. Have NOt To Cap Words all. Not sure what mean words write you. Try Think Before Write. Easier MAY things mAke. Give TRY.
Can see future not MEan been THERE.
Have ever right you been with ideas/theories?
Shoot, miss, shoot, miss.
Why so worry about Arntz? No major role has played.
DO n’t look for what not there.
Nikki not with baby, Naomi not know all and not sister to Paulo, Juliette sister not man, dead stay dead, no travel to future, no time fruit loop, no massive sET-uP.
Waste much space. Try hard must do add to intelligent cognitive discussion.
\Luck good!
April 19th, 2007 at 7:10 am
That ain’t right.
April 19th, 2007 at 7:41 am
I hate to point out my horrible memory, but can some one please tell me if they remember Locke having visions of Boone’s death before he died? I was just curious if this might tie in to Desmond’s visions of Charlie’s death – and the island needing a “sacrifice” before it can reveal something new about it’s self. Desmond could be hampering a revelation by saving Charlie over and over.
Just curious.
Thanks!
ally
April 19th, 2007 at 7:45 am
I don’t know if they were visions of his death, directly, but he did have visions of Boone covered in blood, saying something like, “Nana goes up the stairs, Nana falls down the stairs” (paraphrasing from my unreliable memory!).
April 19th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Do you think that Boone’s death/sacrifice could be tied to the same happening to Charlie? But, even if it is – I have no clue how that would relate to anything else.
April 19th, 2007 at 7:53 am
Yo Cal Simon,
Your WIT is unbounded in it’s Limits.
My Theories Have Merit, While not Proven ,YET.
Anything can happen Here .
Unfortunate that you have Taunting Mentality that other
people have turned on people who are not exactly like them.
People who have English as second language , and are tormented by overbearing preppies like you. enjoy your one moment of ‘Power” , you like the Others will come crashing down….Watch the NEWS and learn.
Simon, you have made an error, I pity those you hold sway over.
Peace
Sorry Losties, I did take offense.
April 19th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Meh? …you’re kidding, right? I thought it was great– I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, expecting either Charlie or Desmond to get killed! I was worried the whole “Mr. Moriah” reference was a forshadowing of someone being “sacrificed.”
… And anytime Desmond has more screen time, that works for me
April 19th, 2007 at 8:01 am
I first thought that the parachute girl would have been Penny had Desmond let the arrow kill Charlie. The order of events would suggest this: 1. the book falls out of the backpack revealing the Des/Penny photo. 2. Desmond averts Charlie’s arrow death. 3. The parachute girl turns out NOT to be Penny. Did Desmond alter the events, which altered the outcome? I think this is what the producers are leading us to believe. But I think it’s much simplier.
Parachute woman was sent to the island by Penny to find Desmond. How would parachute woman know how to find Desmond when she got to said island? A photo naturally. How Penny got that photo is unclear, but she certainly gave the photo to parachute woman to aid her in locating Desmond, which is how parachute woman knows his name when she first sees him.
So, now the big question remains, what is the message she was sent to deliver to Desmond?
April 19th, 2007 at 8:03 am
I really enjoy Desmond, so I liked the episode.
Some observations and questions:
Weren’t the guys in the wierd sort of observation pod in the arctic, in the first episode of this season also speaking portugese? I think they were, which makes an even stronger case for this woman in the parachute gear being some sort of envoy from Penny.
Is Desmond going to kill Charlie as a part of his test and sacrifice? No Desmond, no. Still, if I were Charlie I’d steer clear of Desmond for a while.
As for Desmond’s, um, powers, why did they start after the hatch blew up? I’m anxious to know how Desmonds story relates to the island.
The monk and the jewelery store lady: spooky.
And finally, yeah, I am tired of the love quadrangle too.
April 19th, 2007 at 8:47 am
NorCal Matt–
I had the same thought about Dez saving Charlie changing the parachutest from Penny to mystery woman. It’s a crazy line of thinking … Dez didn’t make his decision until the last possible second, and she was already there hanging from the tree by that point. So does that mean, he made his choice, time rewound itself so that that it wasn’t Penny in the parachute? What if he chose differently the next time? Ot are things already predetermined, and his choice already made? In that case, then does he really have a choice at all?
My brain hurts…
April 19th, 2007 at 8:59 am
Before Dez saved Charlie they had already found ,Portuguez “Catch 22″ novel, so she was there before Dez altered his FutureEcho vision.
Unless Penny had Portuguez book , as she is hanging with her Arctic Monitoring Station crew and borrowing their reading material.
Mr. Arntz will return, and when he does it will be a “Man Behind the Cutain” ,moment.
Dig Vincent Dig
and
“The Pigs are Walking,The Pigs are Walking”
April 19th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Frank,
Reread my post. At first I was doing the painful brain twisting thought process you just outlined. Then I rethought it and realized the parachute woman was sent by Penny to contact/find/deliver a message to Desmond. She had the photo so she would know who is was when she found him. Simple as that. Those pesky Lost producers just like messing with us.
April 19th, 2007 at 9:28 am
Unless time somehow ‘rewound’ itself to correct for Dez’s decision. That’s where my brain starts to hurt. I agree, it’s much simpler and makes much more sense that the one who was there was the one who was supposed to be there. But the episode is called ‘Catch-22′, which leads me to believe that Dez’s decision is supposed to be the catch-22 … save Charlie, lose the chance to be reunited with Penny; or, don’t save Charlie, and be reunited with Penny (that’s not really a catch-22, but it’s the only thing that I could think of).
April 19th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Has anyone seen the lady falling from the sky before? Who is she and how do you know her name?
April 19th, 2007 at 9:38 am
CalSimon,
I echo MontaukJimbo’s words: “Your WIT is unbounded in it’s Limits”, without the sarchasm. i mean it. i had a long busy day,a nd came to read your message, and could not stop laughing. Thank you. It was really funny.
MontaukJimbo,
I hope you cool down, and do not take offense, please. It really was just a funny joke. BTW, I am not a native English speaker either
PEACE
April 19th, 2007 at 9:54 am
To all who are worried about the “Polaroid equals one photo” conundrum:
There are actually many different types of Polaroid media that can:
1.) produce multiple photographs.
2.) produce a negative in addition to an actual photograph.
So, this can easily explain the multiple identical photo problem. If there were a photographer with multiple backdrops and such, it would be likely that he’d have the type of Polaroid back on his camera to reproduce the images for himself, or for a customer like Penny with tons of money!
April 19th, 2007 at 10:26 am
“# NorCal Matt Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Frank,
Reread my post. At first I was doing the painful brain twisting thought process you just outlined. Then I rethought it and realized the parachute woman was sent by Penny to contact/find/deliver a message to Desmond. She had the photo so she would know who is was when she found him. Simple as that. Those pesky Lost producers just like messing with us.”
Definitely.
mlgmom Says:
April 19th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Has anyone seen the lady falling from the sky before? Who is she and how do you know her name?”
http://imdb.com/title/tt0979594/
I liked the episode alright. They did the Lost thing where you think there is going to be a lot of cool stuff, but really they just drew out the events. Also, Penny looked weird in the flashback. And I would have been cool with Charlie dying. What the hell was he doing carrying an Ovation around in the RAIN?
Favorite line: “Are we discussing our favorite other?”
The answer: Probably.
April 19th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Mumbo Jumbo-
Ok…so I went a little over board, but come on. It has nothing to do with the English language. It is the keyboard I am concerned with. There Are Not Many (If Any) Languages That Cap Every Other Word.
I am not taunting you….seriously. But do you read over what you have written before you submit it? Just might help.
Trust me, I have never had a moment of power. Wouldn’t know what it is like. And just to be clear, is it the English speakers and the Others that are going to come crashing down, or is it the Preppies along with the Others?
Fernando-
I think we had the same busy work day!
April 19th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Frank, I thought the same thing about the title of the episode. It’s not really a Catch-22 if we don’t know the two separate outcomes of the two decisions.
Would we have seen Penny if Des let Charlie die? Nothing in that episode can allow us to absolutely assume that. The plot of the novel Catch-22 revolves around the decision process of the main character because he absolutely knows the outcome of the two paths he has to choose from. Des, based on patchy visions, hopes (not knows) one of his paths leads to Penny. That’s why I can’t really say I liked this episode, because it wasn’t a true Catch-22.
April 19th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Fernando-
Is the Bizzaro Mocking style of NoCalSimon, Funny?
Not to someone who ReRead my Previous post and
Found a “ghet” typo ,and a few times I used Capitals to make a Point.
I am COOL but, It sickens me when, Hurtfull Bullies, can get Thinking individuals like yourself, to join in the group Taunt.
It all seems harmless until someone takes offense and internalizes it; Columbine, V T, Austin Tower,Amish….ect.
Think about how, You effect those around you and how , a Rock in a pond make ripples in the water. Leaving someone feeling less of a human can lead to InHumane Acts.
I am glad you were brightened by NoCalSimon’s put down of Me.
I was not
I guess that is what Lost is About Cause and Effect.
Don’t worry NoCalSimon …I will save Lot’s of space for you to humiliate others..
I am done.
True Peace to you ALL.
April 19th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Can’t we all just get along and stick to writing about Lost?
April 19th, 2007 at 11:00 am
NorCal Matt–
I think that a catch-22 is when you have two different actions, but each is dependant upon the other to complete. I haven’t read the book, but the way I’ve heard it used the most is, “You need experience to get a job, but you can’t get a job without experience”. If Desmond’s choice to save or not save Charlie was supposed to be a Catch-22, then the writers are just wrong, because it’s not. It’s just a decision with consequences. If it was something like, “Dez needs to save Charlie’s life to see Penny again, but Penny is the only one who has what Dez needs to save Charlie’s life”, THAT would be a catch-22. Maybe it’s something that is yet to be revealed.
April 19th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Wow…some of you guys have the tools to find anybody…I was wondering how you knew her name too….funny….I didn’t see Arnzt listed there….j.k….I am going to go crazy and laugh till I piss myself or pass out when Mr. Science DOES turn out to be Jacob……….in a small way I’m now pulling for ya MJimbo….but I’m w/ Fernando…that’s going a little too far….I like this place cause everyone has an opinion and I hope everything stays friendly here! I’m hoping everyone was joking….even if in poor taste…..don’t mind poking fun of people, but if someone takes it bad then it’s not fun…you guys can treat me like trash and call me NuckinFuts, I don’t care!
Thanks to those who commented on my latest theory from the end of the previous show post….perhaps it still holds some water….perhaps the helicopter hit the cloaked device / sheild….just like the plane…. I don’t really want it to be aliens either, but I’m running out of options here lately….
Like the Desmond episode, but his comments to his ex-fiance who he left before meeting Penny make me think that when he fell in the street he must have started these visions….or started to go nuts thinking he wasn’t on the right “path” …….he said he thought he knew he had to go w/ the Monk….not that he had a vision at all…..I was thinking that in his pre-island button pressing hatch blowing life time that perhaps the visions did not start until he hit his head painting….that maybe the concussion or whatever caused these gut feelings to kick into a higher gear and turn to visions…but based on the Flashes episode they really didn’t flash as much as they were stronger “gut” instincts or what seemed like “past memorey flashes” …..but last nights episode tells me that whether or not he actually had “flashes” he was a person who was prone to make irrational decisions based on nothing more than a gut feeling…..perhaps even though the episode last night shows us there is some validity to his notions / flashes while on the island this is not to say that there was validity to things that were happening before a few major head traumas pre-island / post button / ….he was once right about the bar fight, but did not have it as exact as he did this time around….
It just seems that something that has increased his abilities since the implosion….perhaps just as Locke can now walk, Rose is now healed, etc that the island properties have now increased his “gut” feelings to actual “visions or flashes”….so the only remaining question would be “How come the Monk and jewelry lady knew about him?” Well…to me it would mean that they were just like the recruiters sent for Juliet….As much as Ben seems to be able to forecast the future and manipulate the 815ers enought to predict precisely what they will need to do / where they will need to be / how they will need to act to make our Losties behave in certain ways they must have done the same to get Desmond there as well…. I just don’t know why they need him yet….but I’m working on it….
Peace N Chicken Grease Brothas!
April 19th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Yeah, I wish Dez would have told Charlie to leave the Ovation guitar behind because, “it’s gonna’ rain, Brother, I saw it.”
April 19th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
WOW, Frank really put things into perspective for me.
I had initially thought that the Catch 22 issue was “the dilemma Desmond faces: “save the junkie and “change the picture,” or let him die according to his flashes.” but you are right: “Dez needs to save Charlie’s life to see Penny again, but Penny is the only one who has what Dez needs to save Charlie’s life.” The Catch 22 issue is all about circularity, and there is no way to get out of it from the point of view you explained it. Thanks!
As for everyone else asking how some of us know the name of the parachutist, this is the thing: We read it in the spoilers section from the Fuselage or in Lostpedia.com (I do not remember) where they also have very brief summaries for the episodes to come for the end of this season. I hope that mentioning her name, or about how I found out about it, does not spoil anything for anyone. After all, we will hear her speak next wednesday. until then,
Peace, every1.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
NorCal,
The message will be..”Desmond, if your going to break up with a girl, don’t run off to some stupid island”
April 19th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
“Wouldn’t normally care, but you were the one who made a big stink about someone not having their facts straight.”
Um, dear Frank,
The partnership has nothing to do with the iPhone, rather the iTunes store downloads. The first poster remarked that the reference to the iPhone was to please the parent company. The parent company is Disney/ABC, who is not producing the iPhone, Apple is, and is not in a deal to sell iPhones. The implication he made was that some concession was made to please ABC over the iPhone, when the FACT is, they are not in any sort of deal to design, manufacture, distribute, or provide phone services for the iPhone.
In fact, that article is dated Oct 15th, almost a full two months before the world even knew the existence of the iPhone. You’ll notice the word “iPhone” does not appear once in the entire article. Perhaps if you print the article out and cut out the letters you could rearrange them to spell the word iPhone.
So don’t try to scold me and put me in my place for setting the initial poster straight about ABC not being the parent company in regards to the iPhone.
I know about the iPhone, I’m an investor in Apple, and ABC has NOTHING to do with the iPhone. It’s an Apple product. Not an ABC or Disney product.
The reality is, the production designers who make props for the show probably did that on their own volition, and it was not as a result of some so called pressure or implied conspiracy to make it part of the show.
April 19th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Actually Frank I made a mistake. That article you were smacking me down with is dated 2005, not 2006, so it is over a year, not two months, before the iPhone was announced. Sorry for the mistake…. wait, you made the mistake. Nevermind.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Listen, I love the show and I enjoy Ryan and Jen’s contribution to the LOST community. I enjoyed the similarity of the satellite phone to the iPhone, I thought it was a great “shout-out” to the largest Disney shareholder, Steve Jobs. The producers know that LOST fans find every detail on every show and I thought it was a very clever (if not inadvertent) tie in to the most anticipated mobile phone. It’s just a slippery slope that’s all. LOST drives me crazy sometimes because of the spectacular episodes that air makes me expect all the episodes to be that way. That said I still love the show. Peace.
April 19th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
My point wasn’t about the phone; it was about the Apple/ABC partnership, which, I believe, is still in existence today … meaning that a little bit of Apple product placement is going to make the execs happy. So I’ll accept in advance your apology for yet another mistake.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Knock it off.
April 19th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Maybe one thing you haven’t looked at yet is…… If Charlie got the arrow into his throat then maybe they would turn back and return him to Jack. And then forget where he got shot or not be able to find it. Therefore making it so that the girl can’t give her message to Desmond. What if it is a good thing that Desmond stopped Charlie from dying?
Every Wednesday night I go to a friends house and watch a certain show. Lately I have been watching/hoping. This Season was craptacular up until 5 episodes ago or so when it shows Jack playing with the others. Please bring back the magic of the first season. Not the second one.
April 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Rebecca, I do like your ideas on Desmond’s visions in “Flashes’ – I thought a similar thing: that it was his mind recreating visions of his life while he was in a period of shock.
I have a question for you though. You said, “I thought it was a good episode in general, I’m pleased the cast addition is someone already related to the island pre-815 as I think the writers will be getting a little desperate when they start dropping completely fresh faces out of the sky.”
I’m confused because the IMBD site listed above by SpilledMilkInc shows this actress had not yet been on the show – her credits are listed as this last episode and next weeks (“D.O.C.”). What am I missing here? She’s obviously related to Desmond in some way as she has the picture and his name, but how is she related to the island (before or after the crash of 815)? Thanks in advance for your answer.
April 19th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
…also, anybody who uses the phrase “jump the shark” in any way, shape, or form or waxes poetic about season one or some missing “magic” gets a Sawyer nickname and is ridiculed. Who’s with me?
April 19th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
That woman is probably a highly skilled pilot and maby a soldier.
Don’t know why could somebody think that it was Penny meant to take her
place if Desmond let Charlie die. Is’t nonsense, there’s no logic in it.
How Charlie’s death could bring Penny to the island instead of that woman.
Complete nonsense I say. We know now that coming on this Island by
an aircraft is extremaly diffucult because it’s somehow protected,
force field, emp whatever. That woman used some expensive and advanced
equipment so she probably wasn’t Penny’s best friend but somebody
ho was hired to do this and she knew what she was doing.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:56 am
Its probaby been mentioned before but I just wanted to clarify “The pigs are walking” reference from Expose… it was a reference to George Orwell’s book “Animal Farm” when the animals overthrow the farmer and take over the farm themselves on the grounds that “All animals are created equal”… then near the end of the book the pigs take over leadership roles and even begin walking on their hind legs which causes the other animals to fret that “the pigs are walking”. I think Artz was just pointing out that Kate, Sawyer, Jack, et al were assuming a role higher than the other survivors while Artz thought they should all remain in equal roles.
By the way, I also didn’t think there was anything “meh” about this episode.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:57 am
I am thinking back to when we first meet Desmond in the hatch. Wasn’t part of his “morning” routine to inject himself with the same kind of medicine that the others used on Claire? Initially, we were led to believe (and then backed up by Rousseau) that there was some kind of virus or sickness on the island and the injections were either responsible or the cure. Maybe the injections cause the future flashes? But then later, it seems that they were part of Juliettes work. Different medicines? Did we just forget that Desmond injected himself? Just some other food for thought.
Keep playing nice in the sandbox kids:)
April 20th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Kopytko,
You make an excellent point about the Woman being a highly skilled pilot… I just realized that helicopters at sea means that the Island is either near another large land mass, or it took off from a ship! Helicopters don’t have as large of a range as other aircraft. So, maybe there is a larger vessel, somewhere out there?
Anyone know anything about the range of choppers at sea?
Jen & Ryan, I really miss the podcast!
April 20th, 2007 at 3:51 am
Just a few comments…
People seem to be misinterpreting what a “Catch 22″ is (including perhaps the writers). In the book “Catch-22,” one of the characters (I believe Yossarian) wants to get out of flying military combat missions. He is told that the only way to do this is by being clinically insane. BUT, since it is *sane* to not want to fly a combat mission in a time of war, by trying to be proven insane, you are proving yourself sane. This is Catch 22.
Desmond affecting things by knowing their future is an example of the “butterfly effect” or the “Heisenberg uncertainty principle,” but NOT of a Catch 22.
And to paraphrase Freud, sometimes the title of an episode of Lost just refers to a title.
I didn’t have time to read through the whole list of postings, but I will say that I for one have an extremely difficult time reading ANY posts (I will not name names) where the conventions of grammar and punctuation and capitalization are not at least somewhat approximated. That’s why the conventions exist. So no matter how insightful the posts are — and some are very — I simply find myself skipping them because they give me a headache trying to read them.
April 20th, 2007 at 5:26 am
Carlos, you made an excellent point..
“there is the theory floating around that the time rift could mean that Claire’s baby (or another Lostie baby) is actually Ben (since Ben said he was born on the island)”
This could mean that Juliet’s job is to make sure that a particular baby survives. “Baby Ben” could be the son of Clair, Sun, or Kate! I’m guessing Kate, because she was chosen by the Others to be captive, and Juliet handcuffed herself to Kate for a reason (maybe to make sure Kate stayed ok).
Beachybroad, I thought what you said could be true, too..
“Could the purpose of Desmond’s injections by the Other’s be to keep him from having flashbacks about the future?”
I think Desmond is they guy that the Other’s are most worried about, because he is able to change the future, and he is unpredictable.
And just mabye Juliet’s side-job is to stop or kill Desmond, the last person she “probably” saw before she cinched the knot tightly with that angry look.
Now I’m going to add “The Butterfly Effect” (Desmond changing the “past”) to “Groundhog Day” and “The Truman Show” as the possible answer-combination to what Lost is all about.
Here’s another wild idea.. could Mrs. Hawking’s (the Jewlery Story Lady) be Jacob?
April 20th, 2007 at 5:48 am
Tawl Says: “Baby Ben” could be the son of Clair, Sun, or Kate!”
He really is, he’s the son of them all at the same time!Don’t forget about Juliet. She’s going to be pregnant soon with Jack. Imagine that Ben is son of four woman.! The different time loops which he is a son of one of these women combine in this patricular timeline on the island making him an incarnation of his different time loop versions!That’s why he’s so brilliant, his
like four man in one. Don’t forget about his four fathers, and the major issue
-> Jack and Claire are brother and sister so beeing a hybrid of their relationships he’s really a child of incest! That’s whe he’s so eVil!
So Tawl, you made an excellent point.
April 20th, 2007 at 5:51 am
“I think Desmond is they guy that the Other’s are most worried about, because he is able to change the future, and he is unpredictable.”
You would think that he’s someone that they’d be VERY interested in; even if he can’t really change the future (remember the jewelry store lady telling him that the universe has a way of course-correcting), he, at the very least, seems to be somehow working for a powerful group that’s independant of what The Others are doing. Yet, he was in that hatch for a few years, and has been on the beach for about a month … and from what we’ve seen, they have no interest in him at all. Is it possible that he has relevance that they don’t yet appreciate?
April 20th, 2007 at 7:12 am
Cuedblu – I don’t think I phrased myself very well there. What I meant was I’m pleased that though she is a new character, she is not there by accident, but is there because of the tracking of Desmond – my point being that I’d be worried if the writers resorted to putting completely fresh characters on the island, characters who came to it as fresh as the 815ers did. I just cannot imagine it being anything but cheesy, least of all because it leaves the 815ers rather redundant as a plot device. Basically I’m glad that if they’re going to be dropping people out of the sky it’s for a reason, to further the plot, not just because they decide the show is getting a bit dull and want to crash a kayak full of cheerleaders ashore to spice it up.
April 20th, 2007 at 7:45 am
Just to add something to the “ben’s baby” topic (which btw i don’t really understand)
Consider that Juliet could be pregnant as well, with Goodwin. I mentioned this last week. It could mean that she has a different motivation for figuring out why women die from conception/pregnancy on the island.
Jen, yes I agree with you. Anyone complaining about “jumping the shark” or Lost is a shell of its former S1 self. I say phooey, you get a nickname. I think it’s acceptable to say you didn’t really love a particular episode, but blanket negative statements have got to go. This show (even it’s weakest episodes) is so much better than 99% of what is on TV these days.
Theory: I think Mrs. Hawking’s side job is posing as a picture frame model. I’m sure that’s a lucrative business. The monk probably bought that picture frame at target because he liked Mrs. Hawking’s warm demeanor. The monk then got bored one night playing with his new version 3.0 photoshop (released in 1994) and photoshopped himself into the photo. It all dates back to the monk’s mommy issues in his teenage years, which had a direct affect on him joining the monestary in the first place. See, it all makes sense. Just another red herring from those crazy Lost producers. Ah, geez, those silly guys.
April 20th, 2007 at 8:45 am
In response to Dave, who said:
“I didn’t have time to read through the whole list of postings, but I will say that I for one have an extremely difficult time reading ANY posts (I will not name names) where the conventions of grammar and punctuation and capitalization are not at least somewhat approximated. That’s why the conventions exist. So no matter how insightful the posts are — and some are very — I simply find myself skipping them because they give me a headache trying to read them. ”
Although I was not pointed out directly, I believe you may be talking to people like me.
I must say, this was very well thought out argument / point you have made here, sir. You’ve convinced me to take the time to make sure I will only post my thoughts in complete sentences. I think this is a good rule of thumb for everyone to follow, and thanks to you, I have seen the error in my ways.
Sincerely,
NuckinFuts
April 20th, 2007 at 8:57 am
I think that all letters should be signed as “Sincerley, NuckinFuts”.
April 20th, 2007 at 8:58 am
Kopytko & Dean in Chicago….Great job….although I was disappointed after reading every single post to see if anyone else mentioned it (helicopter at sea) and as i was coming to the end, you “guys” take my thunder…haha…kidding…
But I think that is a very relative point that this site has not really discussed…especially after it seems you discuss EVERYTHING…..I am by no means an expert…but I don’t know of any helicopter (single passenger maybe??) that could travel as huge a distance as we are thought to believe……and why did it crash??…force field??… time warp thingy??…emp??….well, emp is out as we (or maybe just me??) know that was the reason of purple sky and probably not really working so well…..time warp thingy???… hmmm…just say no…. force field/cloaking device….maybe??…OR…maybe the Portugese guys found it and were able to determine the maximum amount of fuel to use to reach the island before it crashed……too realistic perhaps….
Anyways, interested to know what “others” think of the helicopter situation….I too check this site on thursday mornings!!!….and although not a regular contributor, I have not missed any posts to date….so thanks to Ryan and Jenn for “hosting” our international Lost party….
I’m with you MontaukJimbo, no need…if THEY Don’t LIKE caps, pass over your post….
PEACE!
April 20th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Was the helicopter girl the same one that Desmond stood up (her brother socked Desmond in the nose)? My office friend says so. Note to LOST producers: work on your helicopter special effects. Both the character Jack and actor Matthew Fox want off the island real bad. He isn’t acting anymore. Thursday’s episode made it apparent that the main cast and their agent/managers are looking at new horizons. That’s ok, just don’t leave me hangin’, brotha’.
April 20th, 2007 at 11:21 am
I dont understand why Jack and Juliet did not ask a boat to Ben.. and follow the same direction of Michael and Walt.. .. probably cause Juliet know Michael is not safe..
April 20th, 2007 at 11:35 am
So I have been talking to a friend about it, and he thinks Penny definitely would have been there if he had let Charlie die because he saw her in the future flashes. I didn’t believe him, nor did I think that letting Charlie die would change that, so I found a youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY29uzdTzco
It’s around 19 seconds:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/spilledmilkinc/penny.jpg
So yeah, she’s there, in the jungle. And I am sad and confused. I like Penny.
Also, no, Bill, helicopter girl was not Desmond’s ex-fiance. They are played by two different actresses.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
SpilledMilk, why did you have to go and find that screencap? Dang it, Penny is definitely in his flashes. But… But… We only see her from the neck up, so we can’t tell for sure that she is wearing a parachute suit, right?
That’s all I got. I just don’t want Charlie to have to die for Penny to appear. This whole conundrum thingy is all Desmond’s fault, really, if you think about it. Bastard.
April 20th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
heee I think SpilledMilk is right… if you look the shoe of the parachute girl in the Desmond’s flash back, they are white (dirty) or grey… But…. in real life.. at the end… the are black…
so… think what you want about it..
April 21st, 2007 at 2:12 pm
-If Charlie was supposed to die why did he appear in Desmond’s Vision
holding the parachute?
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:16 am
I don’t think that is Penny in the jungle in SpilledMilkInc’s screen cap. I think that is just a leafy background from when Desmond is helping load her car with wine. I noticed some of the flashbacks Desmond saw were from his past. For example, Desmond puts his thumb on Penny’s cheek. I’m almost positive that happens in “Flashes Before Your Eyes.”
April 23rd, 2007 at 6:53 am
FoKof.. no need to “show” everyone how old you are.. just post a comment using real words and let the rest of use determine if it has any merit
Here’s a few ideas that I bet no one has thought of yet.
1. The helicopter really belongs to the Others and was left over from previous Dharma days. If Ben knows the future, helicopter girl is being planted by Ben to to get something from Desmond. Remember, Ben knows a lot about the Losties, so I assume he knows a lot about Desmond and Penny too.
2. If you can only get to and from the Island by submarine, and it’s a rough ride, Walt and Michael are probably boating around in a circle in the same fashion that Desmond was when he was trying to sail away from the Island.
This is why I believe the helicopter came from the Island and didn’t have to travel very far over the water, just like Mr. Friendly’s motor boat that took Walt from the Lostie’s raft
3. Ben will not lie to the Others in order to maintain his credibility as a leader. Ben has lied countless times to the Losties in order to get what he wants. This means that whatever he has told Juliet is true, and whatever he told Jack (without Juliet around) could easily be a lie (Sawyer and the exploding heart device.. “Henry Gale”.. were among other lies).
4. Kopytko, a very interesting point.. Ben could be the child of each of the pregnant Losties, BUT in different Time Loops. If you can have a Smoke Monster be a guardian of the Island.. believing in Time-Loops isn’t a real stretch either.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:57 am
Tawl,
The show’s producers had spoken in an interview about the introduction of a new character to the show, saying that she would not be an Other or an 815′er. Unless they changed their mind, then Naomi cannot possibly be an Other sent by Ben. My theory, Penny hired her to find Desmond. Why wouldn’t Penny go herself to rescue him? She knows more about the island than we do, and she did not want to risk her own life. With a little patience, let us wait until Wednesday or next week to see/hear what Naomi herself has to say (My guess is she will not wake up this week, just to keep us guessing longer).
Also, another upcoming episode will feaute flashbacks from Ben’s life. I would like to think we will find out who his mother is then. But even if we don’t, spoilers maintain that we will meet Jacob that night. Let us wait and see.
Peace.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:43 am
I am sure that Penny is smart enough to realize that going to the Island will take skills, strength and stamina she may not posess. If she has put as much time, effort and money into finding Desmond as we are being led to believe, then she wouldn’t risk failure by pulling some “cowgirl” stunt like trying to parachute onto the Island by herself…she didn’t seem like the that type of woman. She hired professionals or is working with a gov’t or other agency with mutual interests in finding either the Others, the Losties, or flight 815 (Oceanic Air perhaps?)
Is anyone monitoring this blog space? It may be a good idea to start…I love The Transmission and would hate to leave because of the actions/postings of a few inconsiderate individuals. Just sayin’.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:14 am
Alaska Connie-
I can not agree with you more. Vicious and malicious posts dampen spirits and can destroy a gathering of friends. Like a tasteless or racist joke/taunt.
Penny is probaby closing in and in conflict with Dharma/Others who are backed by some shadow government agency.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:52 am
Fernando, if you are correct and somehow the helicopter came from the outside (not from the Island) and managed to find the Island.. then possibly a boat could escape the Island too.
I just think it’s a little odd that the Others use a submarine instead of a surface or air vessel. But then, maybe a submarine that is underwater would not be sucked into the Island’s magnet fields as easily as a boat or airplane.
I agree.. malicious posts should be removed in order to keep this a friendly and informative site for all. Let’s keep it fun.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Yeah, I don’t think helicopter girl is an other. I doubt Benry even knows about her. He is a lot more lost (HA. HA.) than everyone thinks he is. Especially now that their outside communication is gone.
Oh, also, didn’t he say they lost communication when the plane crashed (and the hatch system failure)? I was pretty sure that he and Juliet visited the flame station with eyepatch dude right after the plane crashed, so how could that video of Juliet’s sister been real?