Next: “The Candidate” (Episode 6×14)

Intellectually, we knew the stakes were life and death. We knew not all of our cherished survivors would make it to the final act. Yet, knowing is one thing. Seeing and feeling the sudden and tragic loss of beloved characters is another thing entirely. The skeptic in me, the spoiler addict in me, saw it all coming. Yet still, I was devastated. I thought I’d stemmed the flood of tears, until Hurley, Kate, and even Jack broke down on screen. Jen was a wreck, literally speechless, and ended her evening with the final thud. Cling as we might to the flash-sideways as a possible escape hatch to happiness, and as warm and wonderful some of those off-island moments have been, it’s obvious tonight that our hearts were with the characters on the island. The ones we’ve followed for half a decade.

Sun and Jin were reunited only one episode back, and it was a moment that felt incomplete, rushed. We voiced fears that their days were numbered now that their characters’ primary objective had been met. But so soon? So beautifully cruel? I stopped breathing the moment we saw that Sun was trapped. I tried to muster at least an eye roll, but it was too late. I was a goner. Giacchino’s powerful “Life and Death” theme was perfectly cued, a bullet to the heart.

I half expected, hoped, and even rationalized that Jin would indeed leave Sun one last time. After all, don’t all “go on without me!” scenes end that way? And what of Ji-Yeon? But he chose to perish with her, the two of them indeed together forever, entombed in a submarine. The parallels to Charlie’s death were not accidental… and surprisingly powerful.

And Sayid! His heart to heart with Desmond did light a spark of goodness in him, as we’d hoped. But moments after he confirms that he did not kill our damp Scotsman, he makes his final move, his selfless act, giving up his life to a bomb blast so that others may live. He wasn’t, after all, what everyone said he was. Say what you will about how weakly his character had meandered through most of this season, I now can’t help but look back over his first days on the island. An Iraqi, a former member of the Republican Guard, a torturer, a born killer. That this Middle Eastern character dies by self-inflicted bomb in an act of heroism is… eerily poetic.

(Though the much ballyhooed ethnic diversity of “LOST” was certainly thinned tonight.)

And a brief salute to Frank, the hapless pilot, always ready with a one-liner as he was dragged hither and yon. We loved how his eyes twinkled as they returned to the plane, ready for the still seemingly impossible challenge of getting it airborne. Alas, he died but a passenger inside another metal tube. Last words: “Aw hell.”

Deaths aside, the most powerful scene tonight was the showdown between Jack and Sawyer. Jack, realizing that they were exactly where Unlocke wanted them, insists that the bomb won’t kill them unless they do something to allow it to do harm. It directly referenced the amazing scene on the Black Rock earlier this season, when Jack bet his life that the dynamite wouldn’t blow because he lit the fuse. They can’t kill themselves, but they can kill each other… as previous arrivals to the island no doubt did. But Sawyer couldn’t bring himself to trust Jack, especially given what happened the last time he believed Jack’s plan. I could wholly identify with both of them.

Yes, Sawyer pulled the wires, and his action did accelerate and ultimately lead to the C-4 sinking the sub. Why did that happen, when the fuse Jack lit went out? Well, Sawyer did survive the blast. It killed people, including other candidates, but it didn’t kill him.

Meanwhile, an endless debate is born: was Jack right? Had Sawyer not acted, would nothing have happened? It seems a heck of a gamble on Unlocke’s part, putting a timer on a bomb on a submarine (a very direct act), with the expectation that someone would discover it and set it off for him. Just how indirectly do his actions have to be to cause the death of a candidate without breaking the rules?

The one other top-shelf reveal in “The Candidate” seems to be the fact that Unlocke is The Bad Guy. Full stop. No more ambiguous hints and sympathetic overtures. After weeks of being merely menacing and threatening, this week he’s downright merciless, walking right into a hail of bullets and killing without breaking a sweat. And his plan all along was, indeed, to eliminate the candidates. He wanted them all together because they’d be easier to kill together. But he knows some survived, and he’soff to finish what he started.

Does this mean that Unlocke  The Man in Black, the smoke monster, what have you — is actually the embodiment of a great and powerful evil? An evil from which the rest of the world must be protected? It would seem so. And given what Sayid said moments before he died, it sure looks like Jack is Jacob’s successor. He is The Candidate. He sure said that he’s not leaving the island enough times tonight. What else could his calling or purpose be at this point but to continue to confound Unlocke’s attempts to leave?

Desmond, though, remains key to the end game. And that’s something that Widmore seems to have known all along. And it’s Widmore’s role that remains a mystery to me. After all, the C-4 that blew up the submarine came from a booby trap on the plane, one that does seem to have been set by Widmore. If Widmore wanted to destroy the plane, he could’ve done so already. So, couldn’t he have helped Unlocke exterminate the candidates, had they all climbed aboard and turned the key?

Then again, Widmore did try to lock the candidates up in cages, telling them it was for their own good. If it’s as simple as that, though, what is Widmore up to?

As for the flash-sideways, more wonderful moments, to be sure. Just this week, they were greatly overshadowed by the island timeline.

I like that Jack knows himself well enough to see how strange it is that he’s compelled to learn why Locke doesn’t want an operation. Helen asks why it isn’t enough that he saved his life, and Jack says, “Because it’s not.” Seeing the once intimidating Anthony Cooper reduced to an invalid was a surprise. Discovering that it was Locke who caused his father’s paralysis, as well as his own, in a plane crash was cool twist. Locke had his crossover moment, mumbling “push the button” and “I wish you believed me.” And then Jack makes a connection, telling him the same. Their chat in the hospital hallway, when Jack tells Locke to let go even when he can’t let go himself, was great.

What of the music box from Christian? “Catch a Falling Star” has followed Claire around from the beginning. Will Christian be revealed, so very late in the season, as someone else who knew or saw “the truth”?

Two more Tuesday nights. Then, the two and a half hour (yes, they announced the extra 30 minutes tonight) series finale on May 23. There’s not much “LOST” left. I have to say, even if on a purely visceral level, “The Candidate” is the first episode of this last season to feel like I expected this last season to feel like. It shocked me. It angered me. It hurt me. I expect nothing less over the final hours of the best show on TV.

  • Is it shocking to kill off several main characters in one episode? Yes. Is it unexpected? No. And stepping back a bit, I’m glad they hit us late and hard, rather than killing off one character every few episodes. Back in the early seasons, there was a “Survivor” like element as we bet on who would be the next to buy the farm. The deathwatch mindset kind of trivialized things. Sure, more characters will be lost over the next few hours, but in this last act, that comes with the territory.
  • Flash-sideways Jack is increasingly likable. Standing there, looking dashing in his scrubs as Helen thanked him for saving Locke’s life, he seemed almost ready for a guest appearance on “Gray’s Anatomy.”
  • All season long, the writers go out of their way to say, “We don’t know whether Sun or Jin is the candidate.” With both killed off, it looks like we’ll never know.
  • Kate, meanwhile, hears twice that she’s not a candidate and not needed. The more that’s emphasized, the more it feels like she’s being set up to be a spoiler.
  • Neat “mirror moment” with the music box, when we see both Claire and Jack reflected.
  • Sawyer’s nickname for geeky Widmore thug: Dougboy. Jen had been calling him Pugsley.
  • Locations: The hospital and care home were both the Rehab Hospital of the Pacific in Liliha. Bernard’s dental office was Kahala Dental Care in the Kahala Office Tower (adjacent to Kahala Mall).

What did you think? Please comment below! Or, you can also e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com or leave a brief message on the LOSTLine at (815) 310-0808.

454 Responses to “Next: “The Candidate” (Episode 6×14)”

  1. Annietoo says:

    @Julie in KS No – in my opionion it was more about seeing them together in the mirror and emphasizing the childhood song that has been played around Claire and Aaron throughout the series.

  2. Annietoo says:

    @Julie Sorry that read like a mean comment from me – didn’t mean it that bluntly 🙂

  3. gene e says:

    “It may be that you are not yourself luminous, but you are a conductor of light. Some people without possessing genius have a remarkable power of stimulating it.” – Sherlock Holmes to Dr. Watson.

    I can tell you that I ain’t the genius here. However, I wouldn’t be opposed to being the spark that sheds a little more light on someone’s insightfulness.

    We at least need some basic tenets. What do we agree on?

    Kate is smokin’ HOT!

    That’s a good beginning. We can build upon that!

  4. Annietoo says:

    Why does a ‘rectangular box wrapped in cloth’ remind me of Dogen – was The Knife in a rectangular box in then flower bed? Need to go look back at that episode…grasping at straws again!

  5. Carol from Boston says:

    @annietoo – Dogen’s knife was in a rectangular box (a big wooden one in his plants.) Ben also took a wrapped box out of a ceiling vent in The life and death of Jeremy bentham.

    @Gene – hmm, what do we know, not much but we do know this.

    All the candidates are flawed individuals, with weaknesses that can be exploited and all the candidates seem to need redemption. Once redeemed, their value to the island seems to be over and they die. Why?

    What we don’t know, is why the candidates are flawed? Shouldn’t a candidate to represent good, actually be good?

    This show is like being with a 3 year old child. Everytime a question is answered, there are even more questions to answer.

  6. Julie in KS says:

    A funny for you. Tonight my 6 yr old was reading a Bible story to me. It was about David, the shepherd boy. : )

  7. NuckinFuts says:

    Who were all the people that Sayid killed while off island that Ben said were a threat to everyone and who supposedly worked for Widmore? How does GUIs play into this?

  8. Coolpeace says:

    Geez, you step away for a few hours (ok, maybe several) and lots of good discussions are missed. I love reading all your comments and @ gene e – definitely all comments, however small, do spark little lights, if only I could connect them and solve this puzzle…grrh arrg!!!

    The Lost writers are like magicians that distract you with one thing so that we would notice the important stuff that would help us understand the trick. They are tricksters, i say.

    @ dockjm : thanks for the kind words, I do enjoy “going back” and checking what was laid out in previous episodes and verifying the mythology by deconstructing the story.

    And here is another gem that my little exercise above in reseaching the Loophole unveiled. It will also help those of you who seem to be somewhat upset about how Lost seemingly changed from being about our Losties to being about MIB and Jacob.

    The following dialogue will, IMHO, prove that at the time of the introduction of HENRY GALE, aka Ben Linus, back in season 2 – the writers were setting up MIB’s LOOPHOLE.

    In the episode from season 2, Two for the Road, John Locke asks Henry Gale why he tried to kill Ana Lucia but not Locke when he was pinned under the trap door, the following dialogue ensues:

    GALE: Because you’re one of the good ones, John.
    LOCKE: What? Good what?
    GALE: None of this matters. I’m dead anyway. The doctor’s gone to make a trade and we both know he’ll come back empty-handed and then I’ve lost my value. So either Jack comes back here and kills me or my people find out where I’m being held and they do it.
    LOCKE: Why would your own people want to kill you?
    GALE: Because the man in charge — he’s a great man, John, a brilliant man — but he’s not a forgiving man. He’ll kill me because I failed, John. I failed my mission.
    LOCKE: What mission?
    GALE: When that woman caught me in her trap I was on my way here, John. I was coming for you.

    Although ‘GALE’ does not mention Jacob by name, we now know he was referring to Jacob. Could our pre-eminent liar Ben Linus have been telling the truth on this one occasion? He came looking for Locke because he was told by both Ethan and Richard that a man named John Locke was brought to the island by Jacob. Ben probably wanted to see who this man was and what actual threat he posed to him as leader. Seeing Locke as perhaps somewhat vulnerable, Ben thought he could manipulate Locke and was doing a good job at it until the “Help Me” situation in the cabin. As of that moment Ben saw Locke in another light – a bigger threat and in fact perhaps as truly chosen by Jacob.

    We now know that by that time, our Losties had traveled in time and had interacted with Richard Alpert and the Others. The Others knew about our Losties, that is probably why they were able to compile all those files and their histories… Faraday tells Eloise and Locke and Swayer tell Richard that they are from the future. So the Others knew about our Losties, but our Losties did not know about the Others because it had not yet happened to them.

    In the episode, Because You Left (season 5), during one of the time jumps Locke gets shot by Ethan, we don’t know what year it is but Ethan is an adult, we can surmise that it could be a few years prior to the Oceanic crash:

    ETHAN: Who are you?
    LOCKE: My name is John Locke. I know this is gonna be hard to understand, but Ben Linus appointed me as your leader.
    ETHAN: That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

    In the episode, Jughead, in the year 1954, Locke walks into the Others camp to see Richard Alpert and give him the compass that Richard had given him (by MIB in 2007 – see my post above about MIB’s loophole if you want greater detail) and to get further instructions on how to leave the island, but in doing so Locke tells Richard that he was sent by Jacob – which is not really the truth.

    RICHARD: That’s enough! Who are you?
    [Richard approaches from one of the tents.]
    LOCKE: [Sighs] My name is John Locke.
    RICHARD: Is that supposed to mean something to me?
    LOCKE: Jacob sent me.

    Locke then tells Richard his date of birth and tells him to test him for leadership, and of course we know that Richard did indeed try and administer the leadership test but Locke failed…

    Nevertheless, all this to say that Richard must have perhaps mentioned this to Ben, if not in the early years of Ben tenure as leader, certainly when Locke showed up on the Island .

    We also know that Locke wanted to join the Others, Ben manipulated Locke into blowing up the submarine and later brought him into their camp after they left the barracks. Locke encounters Cindy, the flight attendant, who tells Locke that the Others were very “excited” about him being there, and that they have been waiting for him.

    Obviously, Richard must have said something to the Others about Locke. It is at that point that Ben tries his final play on Locke by asking him to kill Anthony Cooper who was tied to a tree…

    and the rest is history 🙂

  9. Cathy says:

    @ Julie – Yes. I also thought of Pandora’s box.

  10. Coolpeace says:

    One last point and/or question re the above :

    Given that MIB set in motion the Loophole by sending Locke to 1954 (willingly or by accident – did MIB control the time flashes?) to meet Richard Alpert for the first time and Locke telling Alpert that Jacob sent him and that he would become their leader…

    Does that make the description of what Henry Gale, aka Ben, thinks as Jacob …”Because the man in charge — he’s a great man, John, a brilliant man — but he’s not a forgiving man.” REALLY MIB.

    In other words, have the Others inadvertingly since 1954 been in service of the Man in Black?

  11. Embie says:

    @Coolpeace – I also wondered if Locke’s 1954 visit to the others meant that MIB was guiding them from that point forward. Honestly I feel a nosebleed coming on!

    @Carol and others about the start date of the time shift for FS being linked to the disappearance of the island, didn’t the island disappear more or less at the same moment the freighter blew up? that’s too recent. Or have I got that wrong?

    In the teaser for next week’s episode Jacob and MIB are playing a game with oblong stones. Anyone know what game that is?

  12. Bonita in Atlanta says:

    @ Gene e – Sawyer might just nickname you “Sparky” { lol }

  13. Bonita in Atlanta says:

    @ Embie – I just assumed it is Backammon

  14. Annietoo says:

    Regarding the rectangular box – so are we thinking that the box was brought on Ajira by Ben, and that it has little or nothing to do with the wiring, wiring that was NOT concealed to prevent people seeing it? But Flocke went to the plane searching for something, so he knew that Ben would be bringing it? If so, this is further evidence that MIB has been ‘tampering’ with every major character in the story.

  15. trish says:

    This episode and several prior have left me wondering about the significance of “candidates” as well as the reason for so much time spent focusing on the temple early in the season. Other than Wayne from TIWWH’s astute comments that Season 6 needed to have new material and not just wax poetic about endings and give us answers, I wonder if when the final 1/2 hour of LOST has aired we will find that candidates or the temple are important. I don’t know-I am increasongly frustrated in the last episodes with the confusion in my head about which Losties go with whom and when and why. I feel like I’m on the playground with lots of 7 year olds who change their leadership and allegiences at a moment’s notice!

  16. Carol from Boston says:

    @Annietoo – I don’t know if the box is the same box. Dogen’s was a knife and I think Ben had a gun which he shot Desmond with in season 5.

    @Coolpeace – my head is hurting again, lol. I agree that Ben must have remembered them all from 1977. But with Ben those lies could have been lies or truth. He knows to maniuplate John you just have to make him feel special and important and you’ve got him. But on the other hand, Ben has made a point several times to say he is protecting them.

    For instance supposedly all the people Sayid killed were threats to the Oceanic Six. In the lighthouse when Ben is driving Sun and Ben to the lighthouse and they start complaining about how far he is driving them and about how he better be telling them the truth, Ben gets fed up and pulls over. He goes on and on about how they don’t know how much he has done to protect them and that he is on their side.

    Ben makes my head hurt. We just never know when he is telling the truth and Eloise even says that everything Ben says is a lie, as does Ilana. I think Jacob knew all along that Ben couldn’t be trusted but held out hope that he could be redeemed.

  17. Carol from Boston says:

    Last night I was reading the Entertainment Weekly and it mentions something in the synopsis of the seasons about comparing the island to a gameboard for backgammon. Here I was thinking I was being original. OH well. I still think that would be an amazing twist like season four, if we found out at the end the flash sideways was real all along.

    @Julie and Rus – no spoilers please. I don’t want to know Kate’s fate yet.

  18. Julie in KS says:

    I don’t think in 2007 with airport security being what it is, that Ben could board a plane with either a gun or explosives. But maybe MIB knows what’s there from when he scanned Ben at the temple when he went to be “judged.”

  19. Embie says:

    @Bonita – researching ancient games reveals several possible games – Senet, Mehen, Tåb – and these may be related to what we now know as backgammon. One version of backgammon is ” ludus duodecim scriptorium” (the Roman game of twelve lines – representing the board divisions of backgammon). Of course the Latin name is intriguing.
    Camera angle makes it hard to see whether the board in the teaser has divisions, and the oblong pieces just don’t fit.
    Another possibility is the Royal Game of Ur, which according to wikipedia is still played today in Iraq and dates from 2600 BCE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Game_of_Ur

  20. Anthony Cavallo says:

    I didnt see the Sun and Jin death coming, My wife cried and I must have had an allergy flre up at the same moment.Wow.
    Jorge and Beth talked about you guys on their podcast. Very cool.
    Anthony And Jeanne in NJ

  21. LReene says:

    @YAE – Just finished listening to Jorge & Sidekick22’s Podcast myself. Congratulation Ryan & Jen on the shoutout from them in the Podcast. Gee, they thought you had “spies” on the filming crew!! What an imagination huh? hehehehehe

    Can’t wait for your Podcast tomorrow on 6-14. Highlight of my week!!

  22. Kristy from LA says:

    @Bobby…I think you just might be right about Sawyer being the replacement for MIB based on his visit to the cave with MIB early in the season. After all, the title of that episode was “the Substitute”…a strong clue that Sawyer is going to be MIB’s substitute.

  23. NuckinFuts says:

    We also need to find out more about Bram & Ilana’s backstory…surely this is important

  24. Vera in Russia says:

    The scene when Jack was pulling unconscious Sawyer out of the ocean reminded me of the S1 scene with Jack and drowning Boone. I think, when Sawyer wakes up on the beach, his reaction to Jack’s actions will be similar to that of Boone, i.e. Sawyer will be mad ‘cos Jack chose to save him instead of helping Sun. I have a feeling that James would rather die than see his friends go…

  25. NuckinFuts says:

    Be careful folks … I did some research on backgammon a few years ago and posted some crazy thoughts on this site that I look back and can’t comprehend,… Plus someone told me to get a life if I remember … Backgammon leads to Egypt, which lead me to the Book of the dead, which lead me to —– nuckin —- you have been warned!

  26. Carol from Boston says:

    @Julie- I think we are talking about a different box for Ben. Did Ben have a box with him on the Ajira flight? I was talking about a box in his hotel room that he took out when Jack left his room.

    @Nuckinfuts – Maybe we’ll find out next week about Ilana and Bram.

  27. ScottB in DC says:

    @Carol and Julie
    LRenee and I have wondering what the box is too……it’s silhouette reminded me of Ben’s Box from the motel air vent. Did we ever see him with the box again? Was it an educated guess that the box contained the gun he used to shoot Desmond?……..He was getting ready to board the plane at that time, so it makes sense to me that he collected it so he could carry the box on to the plane.

    And please help me remember, did he shoot Desmond because he was trying to kill Widmore’s daughter in revenge? or could it have something to do with Desmond’s importance?

    and just to vent…..
    If I hear guns cock one more time on this show though, I’m going to scream. Someone said it, and I think they’re right, the gun cocking is the new WALT!/Is Jin Here?!

    Besides, speaking of cliche’s if Ben had a gun, wouldn’t he carry it like everyone else on the show and stick it in the back of his belt? He’s not as rough and tumble as Sawyer, Anna lucia, Jack and Kate, but even Juliet never used a holster!

  28. Coolpeace says:

    @ Carol : Wait, wait… no, I not saying that Ben would remember the Losties from 1977, because Richard tells us and Kate and Swayer that Ben, once taken to the Temple after being shot would not remember and be forever one of them.

    But…because Locke while time traveling mets, Ehtan and Richard and telling one that Ben appointed him Leader and telling the other (Richard in 1954) that Jacob sent him and that he was from the future and would become their leader…

    Then, perhaps these two Ethan and Richard – mention Locke to Ben, tell him that Locke is special and was sent by Jacob. Therefore, Ben took upon himself the task of baiting Locke and testing him with the request to kill Anthony Cooper to see if he really is Leadership material. Of course, Locke fails this test initially and with the intervention of Richard gets Locke to have Swayer kill Cooper as seen in The Brig.

    I know, I know … nose bleeds 🙂

    As I am writing this, another thought comes to mind. When Ben is baiting Locke with the request to kill Anthony Cooper, he says that it is a scarfice that the Island demands (I need to verify this)…

    This makes me think about the Purge and perhaps that was the test that Ben had to past to become Leader … Ben does become Leader right after the Purge and he bans Widmore from the Island for breaking “the rules”.

  29. Carol from Boston says:

    @Scott- hopefully I am remembering this correctly. Ben was after Penny but as he was pointing the gun at her, Desmond came with groceries and Ben shot him to stop him from defending Penny. He didn’t shoot Penny because little Charlie came out and distracted him and then Desmond jumped Ben and they fought. Ben wanted to kill Widmore’s daughter because for some reason he can’t kill Widmore. So he said he was going to take his daughter from him like Widmore took his daughter from Ben.

    Just assuming the box had a gun, it could have held anything and for all we know Ben had it in his bag when boarding the plane.

    I agree fully about the guns. There are way too many guns and explosions in this show. As I have said before, how does one island in the middle of nowhere come to have so many weapons? Oceanic 815, had one gun that belonged to the Marshall, and since then they have multiplied many times and even over time flashes. Hurley is the only one who hasn’t shot anybody yet.

  30. ScottB in DC says:

    @Carol – yes Hurley hasn’t shot anyone yet……..but the move he pulled with the Dharma van crushing Pickett when Sayid Jin and Bernard had been captured was freakin awesoome!!!!

  31. Bryan says:

    @Carol – The marshall had one gun on him and he had to check 4 more. They were in the metal suitcase that had the little model plane that Kate wanted.

    I always assumed that most of the guns came from the Army group that brought Jughead as well as anything that the Dharma folks brought with them. And after the purge, the others inherited them.

    I have read alot of posts that think Sawyer will replace MiB, but I don’t really see Sawyer as pure evil that needs to be contained. If anything, MiB stays as Locke forever, and one of the remaining losties takes over for Jacob. As many reveals this season have shown us, the simplest answer is usually the right one.

  32. Michael says:

    I still think Jacob is MIB’s father. Too many themes in that direction for it NOT to be so.
    And when MIB took over the OTHERS by pretending to be Jacob and giving them orders, the sacrifice the island demanded was that each new leader kill his father. Ben killed his and Locke arranged the death of his. This is because MIB wanted to kill his (Jacob) and escape. Jacob’s son died or was transformed somehow and Jacob remained forever to try to teach him a lesson and rescue his humanity/soul. What father wouldn’t. That is why all the star wars references. The good/evil father/son themes and rescue/redemption.
    Perhaps what a Candidate really is, is someone to take over the teaching of this lesson. Since Jack has the most “Daddy” issues, it will likely be him.

  33. Michael says:

    That little toy airplane has always bothered me. It was in a case that crashed in a plane, was beaten with an axe, and dropped off a cliff onto rocks and when Kate opens the case, there it is undamaged. Not even scratched!!
    What the hell was that toy made of??????????????

  34. Mattfromnd says:

    Regarding guns. There was a whole stash of them in the hatch. Plus the others had some. Danielle had at least 1. The freightor team had a bunch. Plus the 5 the Marshall had.

    So there’s been many places guns have come from.

  35. NuckinFuts says:

    Don’t know if this has been brought up yet… If candidates cannot kill themselves then why would Dogen stop Jack from swallowing the poison pill? I can almost understand why Jack giving it to Sayid would work since it would almost be like Jack doing the deed because if his required assistance…anyone? Is this an “oops”?

  36. ScottB in DC says:

    maybe because Jack didn’t know it was poison, then he wasn’t attempting suicide by taking the pill, therefore he could be killed.

    Same logic with him giving it to Sayid, a loophole, since he wouldn’t be knowingly killing Sayid, Dogen got him to do it like UnLocke got Ben to kill Jacob.

    I think that’s why Jack’s logic would have held true and the bomb would not have gone off if no one did anything to it, like the dynamite fuse going out in the black rock.

    When Sawyer pulled the wires, in a way he activated the bomb. So everyone in the sub was at risk except Sawyer?

  37. NuckinFuts says:

    I think I get it…so they can kill themselves; but can’t commit suicide knowingly…I’ll take it another step ScottB… If that is true then Sawyer too, like everyone else, was at risk after pulling the wires. If they had sat there and done nothing then that would be suicide… But if anyone messed with it trying not to commit suicide they put everyone at risk including themselves because they did not know it would actually set off the explosives.

  38. NuckinFuts says:

    Sorry to post again: been rewatching and keeps bringing up new things 🙂 I thought I had a great quote that had been overlooked but now I figured it out. When Kate runs into Sayid on his way from the temple to stab Flocke She asks what she missed. I could have sworn he says “ask my ass” and walks away. It seemed a little racy for this show, but the look on Kates face when he does it is priceless. Sadly, I think he actually says “ask Miles”. She does go see him next. Next Saturday night I think I’ll go out.

  39. NuckinFuts says:

    That one is right up there with “ply-wood, powerlines, Paolo lies”, eh? Someone bury me.

  40. aaron r says:

    i don’t know, i feel like next week we’re going to start to find out some of Jacob’s story, maybe, possibly, prob’ly not. i just hope the whole show isn’t spent in another time. i don’t want to stop watching our kids NOW.

  41. Coolpeace says:

    @ Michael : I like your Daddy issues (father/son) theory – it is totally plausable, given what is laid out over the seasons.

  42. Carol from Boston says:

    @nuckinfuts – Kate does say “ask miles” though your interpretation would have been funnier. As for having a non- lost life, we’ll have that soon enough. :(, Doesn’t that part of the season with the temple seem like years ago?

    Home from work today with a killer sinus headache, am contemplating making it worse by watching some more of season 5. After all figuring out all the mythology might make my head hurt even more.

  43. RIP says:

    If you’re sideways Jack and since your return from Australia you’ve 1) met and operated on John Locke, who happened to be on your flight from Sidney, 2) met Claire, your 1/2 sister, who happened to be on your flight from Sidney, 3) met Bernard (who has a connection to Locke) who happened to be on your flight from Sidney, wouldn’t you have more than just a “Hmm. How about that?” kind of reaction to the coincidences?

  44. Jack in Joetown says:

    Lost does a lot of things very well, but sometimes the little bits of business that are there to make a scene real don’t get the attention they might. Usually, it’s a minor thing. Sun not really looking like she’s tying a tarp over her shelter is no big deal. But when the problem rises to the dimensions seen in ‘The Candidate,’ it’s a deal-killer for me. Start with the airplane. The idea that it could be made to fly is laughable. It’s pointed the wrong way. Its gear is buried in sand. And anybody who thinks you just hop into an airplane like that and turn the key to start it shouldn’t be allowed to stay up late enough to watch Lost. When Frank says what he does about getting that baby started, I laughed out loud. The willing suspension of disbelief had been exploded. The submarine scene was just as bad. Does anyone really think you can get a submarine going that quickly? Does anybody really think it takes that long for a submarine to fill with water? Does anyone really think that’s the speed at which water would come into the sub? Did anyone really think Jin looked as if he were first, trying to shift that cabinet, and then, trying to bend the metal pinning Sun to the wall? There’s a shot of him underwater tug, tug, tugging on the metal. But instead of thinking, how poignant, how tragic, my brain is screaming, put your feet against the bulkhead, grab the metal bar with both hands, and really pull! This episode had some good moments, some good scenes. Lost always does. But it was ruined for me because the producers treated me like an idiot. They yanked me out of my willing suspension of disbelief, slapped me upside my head, and said–you are stupid.

  45. UnKate says:

    Jack in Joetown, I had some of the same thoughts. It’s easy and great fun to suspend disbelief with a lot of things in Lost—a smoke monster, reincarnations of dead people, time travel. But toying with real-life logic like an airliner taking off after a crash without the help of a crew, let alone an adequate runway (or a runway at all!) is not only cheesy writing, it’s offensive to an intelligent viewer. Frank (so long, Frank), an experienced airline pilot, should know better than to even wonder out loud if it’s possible.

    And I’m sorry to all who experience deep grief over the loss of Sun and Jin, but turning it into a mini-version of The Poseidon Adventure ruined it for me. Believe me, I would have loved grieving over the loss of two of my favorite characters. I was actually angry that it was handled so cheesily. The writers are better than that. And the actors/characters deserved better.

  46. Embie says:

    @Jack in Joetown – I agree completely about the the metal that was pinning Sun. Even better than bracing his feet against the wall, what about Jin grabbing something else (like the bar that fell on Sawyer) to use to lever the pinning metal and bend it away from her? But, maybe like Kate who couldn’t see that she could reach the arm of the guy with the keys to the cage, Jin was overcome with emotion and not thinking logicaly.

    About the game that Jacob and MIB are playing in the teaser for the coming episode, I now suspect it might be Senet, an Egyptian game in which oblong stones or counting sticks (black, white) are used as dice – you throw them and depending on how they land (flat side or round) their numbers add up to 1 through 5.

    @Nuckin Futs – right, I need to get a life.

  47. christine says:

    Maybe Widmore gets something in exchange from Jacob for protecting/bringing the candidates back. I dunno…my head really hurts, still way too much to think about!

  48. Rufus says:

    @Carol from Boston: I still think the explosion caused the sideways reality leaving us with one world where the plane crashed and the other where the plane lands safely. The sideways reality gives us a Ben who is a teacher who sacrifices power for his “island” daughter, a Said who while still a killer finds that he can never have to love of Nadia while killing to keep her. These connections just may be what will shape the outcome of the Candidates vs the MIB. I call it the formation of Jacob’s loophole.

    One connection that has to be sorted out is Locke’s. In the Island reality he is dead and the MIB has only assumed his form, not his body. So, what purpose does the Jack/Locke realationship have? Why did Locke say re:Helen “I was going to marry her.” If Locke is dead just how can he influence the game on the Island?

  49. Carol from Boston says:

    @Rufus – the flash sideways changes started before the crash, it appears the changes started years before, Ben leaving the island, his dad living, Didn’t Chang have two good arms in the sideways? Jack losing his appendix at age 7. Locke crashing 3 years earlier in a plane. My question is when did the changes occur? The Locke connection is confusing, I noticed the Helen line as well, plus the fact that his plane crashed for no reason.

    There is a lot of explaining to do in the next few episodes to sort all this out.

  50. corivee says:

    Wow. It has taken me all week to read the posts. I loved Ryan and Jen’s take on it. Loved the episode. One of the best yet. The mirroring was awesome. Especially Locke blowing up the sub again. Almost cried for Sun and Jin’s Titanic moment. Loved it, so tragic, but well done. And helps explain why Sun was screaming, “It’s him!” When she saw Locke on the guerney. She was remembering that he killed them.

    Jack was really different in the FS. Almost angelic, so kind and loving toward Locke, you could feel how deeply he really wanted to save him. And th exchange with Bernard really shows him starting to question the coincidences of running into all the flight members. The way he shook his head in amazement that Bernard too, was on the flight reminded me of the unsettling creepy feeling I get when I have a lucid dream. I don’t know if anyone is familiar with this but it happens to me every so often. My dreams are like movies with me as the main character people and places from my past pop up in nonsensical ways, as in all our dreams. But then every once in a while I take a look around and slowly realize I am dreaming but I don’t wake up right away. This gives me a chance to explore, talk to people, and do all kinds of things I cannot do in reality. I dont think LOST is going to end as a dream but I do think, like a lucid dream, the flash sideways is going to allow the characters some opportunity that they wouldnt otherwise have. What, exactly, I dont know. But it will be fun to watch them realize both realities and see what they do with that knowledge. As to which one is real. I believe they are both just as real.

    Some other things:
    1. Music Box: If my long lost dead dad left me a mysterious box, I wouldn’t just open it, look at it and toss it to the side. I’d be looking for some meaning, hidden compartment or something.

    2. Sayid’s death: it was necessary for his redemption, To: BlahBlahBlah. He was a murdering torturing evil man, who changed once he found love, but still has guilt and fear that he will suffer in the afterlife for his evil acts against mankind SO he is hoping to offer the ultimate sacrifice to show his repentance. Sayid also knows Jack must live and he doesn’t know about the rules, so he blew himself up also to save Jack.

    3. Why is Kate not a candidate? Maybe this has something to do with her raising Aaron. She was crossed off because she had to fulfill that destiny. Aaron is important for some reason. He has been since season 1 when the others kidnapped pregnant Claire. I still think Aaron is the bloody boy. He is the reincarnation of something. Maybe?

    4. Sun and Jin speaking English: This was distracting to me, as others have posted, because there is just no way they wouldn’t be speaking Korean in a moment of stress like that. I don’t really get why they would shy away from subtitles when we had an entire episode in Korean. But, I am going with the writers here, that although not entirely realistic, they probably filmed it both ways and then just decided to put in the one Korean line rather than have subtitles as a compromise. I bet I would have cried if it had been subtitled.

    Can’t wait for tonight! I am ready for a LOST mythology lesson.

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