It was the best of episodes, it was the worst of episodes. A tale of two LOSTs came to us tonight, and the chasm between fans who liked it and fans who didn’t will probably never be wider. Perhaps “Ab Aeterno” was a breathtaking, deep, and daring voyage into the heart of a man and, therein, the heart of the whole series. Or, perhaps it was merely an extended flashback for a secondary character that ended with absolutely no forward momentum on the island.
We choose the former. We loved this episode.
If only for tonight, we forgot about numbers and vaccines and time travel, and immersed ourselves in the story of Ricardus — the rich Spanish settings, the lingering moments of terror and despair aboard the Black Rock, the eternal chess game between the Man in Black and Jacob, and throughout, Nestor Carbonell’s fantastic performance. When Richard is visited by the form of Isabelle, we were enthralled. We couldn’t believe this eerie scene was part of the same show that started with a plane crash five years ago.
Before we even thought about where the pieces fit, “Ab Aeterno” reaffirmed our love of the picture being painted. In the end, will it be incomplete, fragmented, and confounding? We have no doubt. But six seasons in, “LOST” is still taking chances, posing big questions, and for that, we still think it’s the best show on television.
Nonetheless, the puzzle pieces demand some study.
No, the island is not hell, nor purgatory… yet it is the closest thing to it, in both the corporeal and metaphysical sense. Indeed, Alpert’s early declaration that they’re all dead is not entirely untrue. Souls come to the island to be tested, and have so far unanimously failed. Sounds like hell to us. We also learn that the island is a “cork” that keeps malevolence and evil contained, and that our survivors are pawns in an epic battle between darkness and its captor.
So: Before the Man In Black escapes, can the last of the candidates prove Jacob’s case? Can they demonstrate that people can choose the right path?
That seems to be “LOST” in a nutshell. The players and stories are simply human. Jack, Kate, Hurley, a Kwon… Their pasts don’t matter, yet obviously inform their future. But stakes are huge. Biblical, global, and universal. It seems impossible for “LOST” to satisfactorily resolve these grand themes in the next seven episodes, let alone a million other frayed threads. We’re afraid vindication may only come after re-watching the series from the beginning, after seeing everything through Season Six eyes.
Interestingly, we saw a distinct parallel between Richard’s failed attempt on Jacob’s life and Sayid’s failure to kill the Man in Black. The fact that both sides may be intent on murder certainly muddies the “good versus evil” waters. Also, even though we still don’t know what rules are in force (and thus what “loophole” Ben stepped through to finally stab Jacob), I was surprised by the suggestion that Alpert was the first to try. Coming to the island in the 1800s, his story already began much more recently than I’d assumed. Which means that the conflict has only recently turned ugly, maybe as Jacob’s candidates have started to run out.
On the questions checklist, meanwhile, we can cross out both “what destroyed the statue” and “how did the Black Rock end up in the jungle” with the same stroke. The physics seem a little iffy, but then again, there’s also a smoke monster on this show. Speaking of which, it’s now clear that said smoke monster “scans” people to find their motivations and weaknesses, if not also their usefulness. Conjuring dead wives, or daughters (Alex), or brothers (Yemi) is a useful power to get people to do things for you, and it’s a power that Jacob explicitly admits tonight that he lacks.
He can, however, grant immortality. And I’m curious why Alpert became Jacob’s ageless intermediary, when all who came before and after him were merely candidates to test. I’m guessing Alpert was a candidate himself, explaining why was he the only person on the Black Rock that the smoke monster didn’t kill. But did he end up extra special because he was the first to come at Jacob with a dagger, demonstrating to Jacob that he needed a helper?
And now, decades later, Richard is weak and tries to join the Man In Black. His dead wife, through Hurley, puts him back on track. Like Ben, he’s nearly led astray, but sticks with Jacob’s team. But also like Ben, I now wonder what else is left for him to do. I don’t know who’s going to be the last man standing against the Man In Black, but I’m pretty sure it’s not either of them.
We’re glad “LOST” took us on a ride into the past this week. But next week, we better rack up some serious mileage on the island.
Notes and Notions:
- Jen’s now fixated on Anthony Cooper. The man who appeared mysteriously on the island, and whom Ben prodded Locke to murder. With a knife. Quickly, before he had a chance to think. Was that whole scenario yet another “move” between Jacob and the Man in Black? And if so, who’s side did Anthony Cooper represent?
- Alpert’s backstory was almost flawless. But the ease with which the greedy doctor was killed was a bit silly. Coupled with Kelvin’s noggin knock at Desmond’s hands, it seems skulls on “LOST” are especially fragile.
- Now that we see even more significance and history to Alpert’s character, it’s hard not to think about some of the things he’s done in seasons past. The fact that he was merely a thug for Ben in “The Brig” seems ridiculous, as does his apparently pivotal role in “The Purge.” Was he acting in Jacob’s interests then? And how does that jive with his efforts to sustain a truce further back in 1977?
- Richard’s devotion to Isabella was well acted, but I couldn’t help but think it was an interesting choice to motivate him with his love for a spouse, rather than for a parent or especially a child. With all the generational issues explored on “LOST,” hanging things on a husband and wife bond seemed almost quaint.
- Some great, lighter moments: Richard’s almost girlish giggle when he’s asked what to do. Hurley telling Jack it’s not about him. And the look on the Man in Black’s face when Alpert hands him the white stone.
- The captain of the Black Rock was one Magnus Hanso. Presumably related to Alvar Hanso of the nearly forgotten Hanso Foundation, which funded the DHARMA Initiative. I wonder if this one mention of the Hanso name will be all we’ll see in the show from the Season 2 ARG? Or will the arrival of Charles Widmore open the door to a little more Hanso/DHARMA backstory?
- Lots of overtly Christian elements this week. God, the devil, a bible, a cross, sin, absolution and forgiveness, penitence… There was a lingering shot of Luke 4:24-29, in which Jesus asserts that prophets are often rejected in their own neighborhoods, and angers the people of Nazareth by telling them not to expect any special treatment even though he’s from their town. I’ll leave it to more qualified scholars to tease out how the passage applies to “LOST.” I’m also sure the nail Richard found on the Black Rock was symbolic, but don’t know how.
- At the end of Season 5, Jacob and the Man In Black see a ship sailing on calm seas in the middle of a bright, sunny day. Yet we now know the Black Rock arrived on a stormy night… delivered by a huge wave, no less. Presumably the first ship wasn’t the Black Rock, but one of many other vessels that Jacob has summoned.
What did you think? We’d love your feedback! Share your thoughts, theories, and reactions to “Ab Aeterno” via a comment below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LOSTLine at (815) 310-0808.
what exactly is Illana’s role?
Is she an other?
does she also have the ability to live forever?
is she Jacob’s daughter?
was she born on the island?
I actually spend the first 30 minutes thinking… can we please get to the island? I love Lost and have followed it from the beginning but this last season has been really disappointing. They only have so many hours left and are wasting precious time with filler. How long do we have to see Richard riding through the forest (twice!)? How long do we have to watch Richard try to get out of those chains? In Recon – how long does it take to get Sawyer to the sub? and then through all the sub sections? If there was some kind of payoff at the end but we knew that Widemore was already there. Arggggg!
I was really hoping this would be a “Richard Alpert as consigliere” episode. I don’t care about these two new characters – Jacob and MIB. I care about the characters who I have been watching for the last 6 years who I am emotionally invested in. Very frustrating!
@Carol: Damon and Carlton invented the Donkey Wheel
I loved this last episode because of the philosophical undertones re: good, evil, free-will, redemption, containment of evil, captivity, freedom… Even though the mythology is interesting and fun, I prefer thinking about the larger picture of life’s purpose as it pertains to our Losties ~~
I do not believe the writers are directly portraying Heaven, Hell, God, the Devil, Jesus, etc., since so many of us would not really relate specifically to that stuff ~~ I think the writers are using metaphors (such as backgammon) to speak about positive and negative or dark and light forces in the world, and will continue in this vein. Also the word ‘candidate’ can be viewed as political rather than religious ~~
I am hoping our main characters can find peace, solace, meaning, and ultimately growth into more self-actualized humans ~~
@Carol from Boston-I too think that Jacob was just brining “people” to the Island and no one in particular. I don’t think he started setting up his own dominoes until the 815 group.
I have read well over 200 posts but haven’t gotten through them all. Apologies if I am being redundant.
Some questions/comments:
In the earlier scene with Jack and Hurley, Richard talked about Jacob having a grand plan. Did we find out what that was? Is it just the exercise of bringing people to the island until someone proves MIB wrong?
I would have liked a scene or two showing Richard settling into his role as intermediary. How exactly did that work? For example, when each new group arrived, did he just sashay over and say “Hi, I’m Richard and I’ll be your advisor?” And why, if Jacob brought 815 to the island, didn’t Richard have the same job to do with our Losties?
I believe Ilana is totally committed to fulfilling her role as protector of the candidates. So why doesn’t she seem more concerned about Sawyer, Kate, Jin?
What if Smokie gets his info in the ‘scan’ and then uses it for his advantage? Isabella doesn’t appear until after the ‘scanning’ of Richard on the ship. Coincidence? To counter, Christian appears to Jack without Jack having been shown being scanned. But, what about Eko and his brother, or Ben being ‘scanned’ then Alex appearing under the temple? And, that last shot of Locke in this episode? Did he pull a fast one on Hurley and Richard? He didn’t seem that disappointed that Richard changed his ever changing mind, again.
I came up with a theory re: the quarantine and the Dharma drops. I am interested in what you all think.
When Ben had the “purge” he was a member of Dharma. I believed he “lied” to Dharma and told them there was a sickness that came over the other members. He probably brought in some of the others and passed them off as Dharma members. He told headquarters that food had to be dropped by parachute so no new people would be exposed. He also needed the people in the hatch to continue pressing the button so he told them they were quarantined so they wouldn’t die as well.
He kept up the pretense to Dharma and probably still did a bit of scientific work to justify their being there. The food that dropped was current wasn’t it? It wasn’t old food caught up in time travel right? I am sure Ben was capable of concocting some elaborate lie in order to keep Dharma out and maybe that is when the island started cloaking itself. (Does Jacob control that?)
How is Ilana “protecting” the candidates. Does she stand any chance against smokey ? Aparently not, as she was fleeing the temple when smokey ravaged it. She magically disappeared when rest of her team was butchered by smokey. Her character seems pretty useless to me at this point. She seems to be there just to reveal that there are 6 candidates left.
@ Laura in New York- You have touched on something on my mind for a while. What made the Others treat the Losties as combative competitors? Ben, I suppose, and probably for his own gain. We know Smoky checked them out, some closer than others. Where was Richard? He only stepped forward when Ben was lusting for Locke’s patricide. Where is Jacob, his will, his testing? What are the Others?
We know Richard knew our Losties, or some of them, from their time travelling, yet it was hands off. He was off island to test young Locke, ‘seduce’ Juliet’, so he can assume an active role, no?
Smoky was involved (Eko). Where were Jacob and Ricardus?
This makes no real sense to me, given what we have subsequently been given. There were 6 ‘candidates’ in their number (7?). There was the list given Michael, who to bring to the dock, and we surmise that came from Jacob… perhaps Ben was spinning Jacob’s wishes his way, and Ricardus was just kinda ‘advising’?, biting his tongue, no longer giving a s***?
Bothers me.
@Carol – Your theory re: the drops makes more sense than anything I have come up with or read.
What happens if Jacob is proven correct about people being good? What happens then when the “progress” is complete? Will Smokey or “evil” vanish? Or does he just win a bet? Also, any thought as to the exact rules in place on why Smokey can’t leave, it seems like he could just kill anyone at anytime, so why not just leave? I assumed it was because all candidates had to be dead for him to leave, but then why not let Claire kill Kate? Kate is not a Candidate? Her name was on the dial. Oh yeah, only thing that would have been better is if the Richards doctor’s name was Shepard.
@ Genevieve
You said “I still don’t know if I fully believe Jacob = Good, MIB = Bad.”
One of the things I’ve been trying to say is that whether Jacob is good or evil and whether Man in black is good or evil are two separate questions.
I believe Man in Black is evil. I think the hints about crazy mothers and simply wanting to get home may be making him a Magneto-style villain — one with a clear, even understandable, reason for his him to be evil, but he is evil nonetheless.
Unless there’s a convincing revelation, Jacob probably isn’t as evil. But he might certainly be bad enough to be evil. Evil in the rigidly idealistic Robespierre model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robespierre) perhaps. Evil for hypocritically manipulating people and letting them die just to prove a point to some sentient smoke. Assuming that it is “just to prove a point.” Maybe this is more than just about a point; maybe Jacob’s actions do protect a world from a force of evil worse than the ordinary evil we have lying about the place. Maybe manipulation is not the only or even the best way to keep that evil at bay. Maybe it is. We need answers to those sorts of questions before we can judge Jacob. He could be evil. He could be good or at least in the normal range of goodness.
I accept, the writers could be preparing to pull the old switcheroo. They could make the Smoke Monster saintly or at least better than Jacob. But they be very convincing if they do. I think the evidence suggests now that MiB is bad. Jacob looks good but is ambiguous. Fully judging him requires us to know what powers he has, what limits he has, what the stakes of his conflict are for Jacob, and what Jacob believes the stakes are. I keep using Winston Churchill as a comparison. He could look like Churchill the enemy of Hitler (did many bad things for one of history’s best causes) or Churchill the enemy of Ghandi (advocated political subjugation of a people because he wanted his monarch to have that jewel in the crown, no matter what Indian people thought.) We need more information to judge that.
Carol from Boston, can you please post the link of that spoiler that ruined the rest of the series fpr you? I haven’t heard of that one.
It reveals the whole business? The ending, the final scene, the real conflict between Jacob, MIB, Widmore and the island? Who the “they’re coming” refers to? Who shot the flaming arrows? whether the bomb went off? Who Jack had David with? The relationship between the sideways and the island realities? Who Adam and Eve were? Who lives and who dies? Vincent? Walt? Please post it. I have to know.
Electromagnetism. Destiny.
The power to change destiny? Alter the future? Or perhaps the altered future was destiny to begin with?
Smokey is composed of electromagnetic dust (thus the sparks), that which comes from the Island itself, and has the power to mutate, scan human life. The entire Island is a magnetic channel to the earth’s center (the center of the turntable of time).
Perhaps DHARMA was simply human effort to capture the Island’s gift of time travel/destiny and harness it. Or better yet, experimenting with destiny, choice, and correcting deviations cause by the Island’s magnetic releases. Part of these “corrections” may involve killing people who were not supposed to come to island, and trying to influence to come to the Island (who were supposed to).
The sideways and current timelines will “meet” at a certain point. Destiny says so. What we see on the island now and the side-ways flashes will converge. Ask Destiny.
If destiny changes course, these ripples eventually effect people down the time line. The 815 Losties had to come back to the Island for destiny to correct itself.
MIB is Destiny. That is his name.
Jacob is what is supposed to happen (by choices).
They both represent to human conflict to accept fate by fate, or through choices.
Is there a difference between how the future is SUPPOSED to happen and how it actually happens. I believe this is the core of Lost (“Circle”). Everything always comes back to its beginning… or end…. or beginning….
Perhaps Destiny would not be destiny if chance existed. Or perhaps choices made, were already destined to be made, regardless of what moves we make.
If the Island is on its own turntable speed, perhaps the forming of life (fertility) cannot “align” itself with regards to cellular reproduction. It’s all about timing. Aaron must be special. His name means “conception”, “from the mountain”, “one of light”.
A Tale of Two Cities anyone? Two timelines, one story? Like the hands on a clock. Both hands rotate, point in different directions yet tell time. Both hands share one point. Perhaps the hands on this “clock” are faith and science. They both converge and coexist bound by destiny.
I am drunk on L O S T.
cool post Rus
Okay, more thoughts.
Perhaps time does not travel forward. Ever. What if we think are “flash forwards” were always really “flash presents” and what we’ve seen on the island is not really the “present”, but the “past”? Can someone hit me over the head now?
What if the whole 815 crash happened while the island was traveling back in time? Does this mean that the Losties are both dead in the present, but alive in the past-present?
Perhaps the island can move itself anywhere in time’s “turntable”. I was thinking about this. The closer the grooves are to the center of the turntable, the faster a point moves (in time). Maybe this is what screws up fertility?
Serve me up some more L O S T please….
great post, Rus from Texas
@Carol: Makes sense (even if Ben is just a workman… maybe someone higher up gave the call) it explains the food drop (Widmore’s pregnancy test was in it yet Widmore got of the Island after the purge) and Kelvin Ilman (who got recruited after the purge since he was in Irak) I think he worked for Jacob since the Blast Door as Latin writing on it.
@docjkm: The list with the Losties name came up with Ankh at the beginning of this season. Richard had no reason to take care of the Losties. The real question is why did he wait 3years to give their names to the Others… Maybe he knew the Others were “infiltrated” by MIB and wanted them to be outside of that (the one that got involved ended up being MIB)
But then the question is: how come Widmore and Hawkin knew? And here I step with the “Faraday’s device”… they knew the future.
@Rus: Like your post a lot. Dharma was there to change the world so that the “doom numbers” would not apply to it anymore. We have seen how the safekey affected Desmond (who lived a second life), how the Donkey Wheel brings you back in time to relive things and how magnetic is the smoke monster… It makes sense to bind all of that together (and with 7episodes they have to choice if they want to explain everything) and so Locke who was the defender of destiny is now destiny and I guess Jack is his nemisis. Yet Desmond is special… He is the central character on free will/fate. He will be clearly needed and soon if it is the battle they are facing.
I always thought it was silly when people clap at then end of a movie in the theater. It’s not a play, the actors can’t hear your appreciation, but last night, alone in my room, as the LOST flashed across the screen at the end of the episode, I started clapping. Outstanding episode! I really have not had time to read all 300 comments so if these are repeat questions/comments, I apologize.
Comment…
The priest was a jerk, but I believe they had to throw that in there to preceed why Richard would ask to live forever. Because of the priest, he thought if he died, he was going to hell. I’d pick living forever over burning in hell anyday. If the sceen with the priest never happened, it would seem silly to ask to live forever. If you lost the love of your life, almost got hung but ended up being sold as a slave (which isn’t any better) crashed on a boat, chained to a wall for however long, watching everyone around you murdered, and some crazy smoke monster got in your face, I am sure most people would beg to just die and get it over with already.
Question..
The one thing that kinda stuck out to me the very second it happened, was the way Jacob and MIB spoke. I sucked at history in school, so I don’t really know the status of the new world (America) in the 1800’s. It could be just me, but I would think that people spoke differently back then. The english (American) accent in which Jacob and MIB spoke seemed very modern. Lincon gave his famous speach in the 1800’s and started by saying saying 4 score and 7 years ago. We don’t say stuff like that today. The new world people used words like thou shalt comith. OK maybe not those words exactly, but you can see what I am getting at. If the same sceens were shot with Jacob and MIB in modern day clothes, you would have no idea it was the 1800’s. We know that the writers and producers are VERY detailed with this show and there are not many things that are not intentional. This leads me to think maybe they are from the future or something. I could be wrong, you never know, but I would love to hear somebody elses thoughts on this.
Anyhoo, hands down, this was the best episode of the series.
After hearing/reading many posts I had a thought about Hurley and Richard’s scene with Isabella’s ghost. After Isabella fades out, Hurley says “Dude, one more thing: she says you have to keep “MiB” from leaving” (paraphasing tremendously)
I believe this was something Jacob told Hurley to say and NOT something Isabella ACTUALLY SAID. Hurley seemed uncomfortable saying it.
Concerning the sound of flash-sideways… doesn’t it have a rotational quality to it? Spinning… moving the needle from one track to another….hmmmmmmmm.
Sorry about the back to back posts.
The writers have stated that the “flash sideways” is not an alternate timeline. This makes sense considering what I (along with many others) have said. The flash-sideways have got to be the present-present. The timeline on the island is the past. So from the perspective of the island, the “flash sideways” is the future, but only relative future. Make sense, or do I need meds?
When Desmond hit the fail safe, he was basically re-living his life, not really seeing the future because the Island was now re-aligning with present day, but the date has not changed. Ok, I see dead people now.
One more and I swear I will not post for a few more minutes.
What if the entire 815 underwater crash footage was not staged? What if this was really 815 – all passengers dead. Except that time split when 815 (with destined Losties) were caught up with the Island while it was going back in time – The Incident.
Perhaps Richard was half right in saying that everyone was dead. He just didn’t say when. Maybe the Island (past-present) will catch up with the present-present and everyone will come full circle and die… because they are already dead.
Charlie is here with me and we are having coffee. Toodles!
I lied. Back.
Okay, so if they die, perhaps the reason they die is so that they can live (in present-present)… because they were destined to live. 815 was “supposed to” make it to L.A., but it crashed (Island oops). But destiny came back full circle, allowing 815 to make it to L.A. (destiny) regardless. It is like your GPS recalculating itself when you deviate from its predestined course. You still make it to where you’re supposed to go even if it takes a little longer. Circle.
Someone please send me away now. Charlie says I’m nuts.
@Rus – just what was in that coffee you are sharing with Charlie? lol Welcome to the obsessed with Lost club. Glad to have you!! I don’t think the staged crash underwater was real at all, and it was the wrong pilot. I understand what you are saying with the flash sideways – basically that it is the new future based on what is happening on the island now is the past that caused the new future? Is this what you mean? It’s early and my brain is only at 50%, wait, Boone is here for Breakfast, he says hi!
@yann- I also think my theory explains the yellow suits with the limited oxygen for the people in the hatch to venture outdoors. Ben didn’t want them to be able to explore the island and discover New Otherton. The oxygen limits kept them relatively close to the hatch.
Carol from Boston:
I’m drinking Magna-Java, a DHARMA brand.
What I mean is that the flash-sideways is the uninterrupted timeline, period. As if 815 never deviated. It is not the new future, but a timeline that was meant to play out, and is playing out.
Ah, now I get it Rus, like I said, it was too early in the morning for me to untangle the mysteries of Lost.
If anyone’s interested, Jorge Garcia’s podcast, Geronimo Jack’s Beard, had Nestor as a guest for this one and Michael Emerson as a guest for the Dr. Linus one. There’s not a ton of listener feedback and theories as The Transmission, but it is an interesting POV since a cast member does it. They talk about the script, the set, acting it, some theories, things that didn’t make the final cut.
On reading all the posts on spoilers, I have to agree. I’ve been recently going to the spoiler pages myself in addition to listening to forward cabin. My rationalization was that the show was complicated enough as is and like Hurley said, I just want some friggin’ answers, but on listening to the recent ODI podcast with Lindelof (spelling?) who passionately pleaded with folks not to spoil themselves, I’m going to take his advice and just take the show as it comes and experience the finale simultaneously with some millions of people.
I initially became entranced by the show’s character development and then got sucked in even more by the mythology. The last episode proved to me why I love LOST so much. Subtitles for different languages, the symbolism, the acting, the writing, how completely different this show is from anything ever put to screen and there has been some groundbreaking TV lately, see HBO, Showtime and SciFi/SyFy, we live in a time of good teevee glut, although there still is some pretty nasty junk.
I am late in coming to Lost and just looked up the writers’ bios (Lindelof & Cuse). This show came out of nowhere. JJ Abrams, you wouldn’t be surprised with, but Cuse – Nash Bridges? Maybe I didn’t get detailed enough bios. I wonder what their next project will be.
If 5-10 years from now they wrote a fly on the wall book on how they came up with everything, the influences, how they came up with Dharma, the smoke monster, the donkey wheel, moving islands, I’d buy it in a minute. However, I didn’t read The Stand or play Myst or read any of Cuse’s graphic novels, so maybe that’s why Lost seems so unique to me. I am really tempted to try Myst now.
So we know that Richard came to the island in 1867. Also on the island were Jacob and the MIB. Presumably no one else since Jacob says that they’ve all died. So, my question is when did “the hostiles” arrive on the island? When and how did Widmore and Eloise arrive on the island? Will we ever get the answer? We know that they were there in the early 1950’s.
Loved the episode, the story is tragic and different from what I expected, great acting.
I do not like the direction that the show is headed. So all along our group of people were just pawns…. … I was afraid that this will be the case after that scene last season with MIB and Jacob. There has to be something more/else?!
I have to watch it again, I have to watch the whole series again…. hmmm
Seven degrees of separation in Lost:
In the episode “Recon”, Sawyer was a cop in his flash-sideways, reminiscent of Don Johnson’s character in Miami Vice. Don Johnson later starred in the police drama Nash Bridges, produced by Lost’s Carlton Cuse.
Nash Bridges had a daughter named Cassidy, a name also used in Lost. In “The Long Con”, Sawyer gets involved with a woman named Cassidy, and even has a child with her.
The character Cassidy from Nash bridges was played by Jodi Lyn O’Keefe, an actress who would later appear in the Lost episode “Recon”. O’Keefe’s character was the subject of Sawyer’s undercover police con. Sawyer even used the same pigeon drop con on both his Cassidy, and the Cassidy from Nash Bridges.
That is very interesting Rusty.
This is an interesting disparity that came to me slowly. In “The Substitute†Flocke asks Richard to come with him and he promises, “I’ll tell you everything.†When Richard declines, Flocke says, “Are you sure Richard? Because people seldom get a second chance.â€
In “Ab Aeterno†when MIB realizes that Richard will be working for Jacob, he says he understands because Jacob can be very convincing. Then he says, “But I want you to know, if you ever change your mind and I mean EVER… the offer (to be with his wife again) still stands.
Aside from the 150 years that have passed… why is MIB going back on his original offer to Richard?
aaAA!! I keep trying and I just can’t get through all the posts before I post…
I’ll just say this, and then go back to reading: In my opinion, every season, this show turns out to be a totally different show that we thought it was. Does that make sense? In other words, every season, a new layer is pulled back and we get insight into a whole new realm that we didn’t know existed before.
So, to everyone who is disappointed with where it’s going: This show never was going where we thought it was going. That’s what’s so great about it!!!
Does Richard exist in the alternate timeline?
@Bonita – very good catch re: Hurley’s delivery of his last line to Ricardus. I thought I recognized some insight in your post, went back, and yeah. Think Hurley’s becoming a Richard for Ricardus?
@Rus and Carol – Libby (who’s been hanging here for some time, really need to get her back on screen) says you two are the Hurley and Miles of the cyberblogworld. You really cracked us up.
@Rus (and everyone) – Re: Timelines. I remain seduced by K Vonnegut’s explanation of the same… Time exists as a mountain range. It’s all there at the same time, but how it looks to you depends upon where you are on the mountains. We are (generally) unable to get a peek at the whole range, and when, or if, we do, it destabilizes our understanding of reality, life, and existence. We become “unstuck”. This does very little to explain things vis-a-vis Lost, but it does let me sit back, and prevent neurosis, or complete breakdown when contemplating our Lost predicament.
@Jennifer, I listen to GJB and I love that they are as confused as us. That is what got me thinking about the food drop shipments. It is a fun listen.
@Doc- you’ve heard of the dead poets society? Well we are the dead losties society. Ha!
@KK – so right, it is never how we think it will turn out. I thought the finale would be getting off the island and that happened 3 years ago. I don’t know if is disapointment so much as frustration and being thrown new plot elements at the last minute. Plus my general dislike of Jacob. It’s those shifty eyes.
@Mimi – Good congruence observation. My impression is that MIB offers whatever the ‘mark’ wants… at the moment. In our current timeline, 100+ years after the Black Rock lands, Ricardus is wanting to be validated, to know why he has been PR’ing Jacob for over a century. He gets grounded by Hurley/Isabella later. I think your observation speaks volumes about MIB’s modus operandi.
@Carol – GJB with Nestor Carbonell, in the bathroom…excellent. Dead Losties Society? Love it! Count me in ‘Officially’.
@Isaac – To ME, Richard is long dead in the alt timeline, of natural causes, or whatever.
@anyone and everyone- Where is Knives? Knives Monroe?
@Camille – See last episode Season 5. When we first meet Jacob and MIB, they are speaking as if meeting on the beach in Santa Monica, current day. THAT really disturbed me. Speech is very modern idiomatic. Was jarring. Still is, if I think about it. I agree, everything is extremely detail oriented, and in Ricardus’ flashback the characters are speaking ol’ timey Spanish. So, how and WHY are Jacob and MIB talking like a couple of surfers (albeit maybe upscale yuppie middle aged surfers) in Malibu? Anyone?
Ryan and Jen, I am salivating over here. Looking forward to your Podcast.
I think Ryan and Jen are really Sawyer and Juliet, reunited in this world and living covert lives in Paradise.
Charlie bit me, and that really hawt.
Does anyone else think that the MIB is Wallace? Wallace’s name was scratched off the list and 108 seems to be an important number to the island. The writers have taken great care to not reveal MIB’s real name and we are still all wondering who Wallace is. I think in the near future we will find out that MIB is actually Wallace.
docjkm: Jacob and MIB are immortal entities not bound by time. So I would not look too deep into why they speak modern day english.
Now I know what eternity feels like – longest drawn out scenes in Lost ever. Get out the chains already!!!! It was painfully slow. About as tension-building as Jack’s appendectomy. But upon the arrival of MIB (phwoarrr by the way!) the episode was back on track. phew!
John Locke in the alternate timeline is also possessed by MIB, is that possible?
If Jacob made Richard ageless just by touching him, does that mean the 6 candidates are also ageless since they have all been touched by Jacob? Is that how they were able to live from the days when they were in the dharma initiative(1970s) up until the present time? which then makes time travel irrelevant? as in, there was no time travel in all these episodes?
@ Isaac: I think Jacob has supernatural gifts that he can share with people but I think the touch is intentional to the purpose. For example, we seemed to “heal” Locke when he fell out of the window because Locke needed healing. Richard specifically asked to live forever and I think Jacob touched him and intentionally gave him “that particular gift”. I think the candidates can still die because the intention of Jacob’s touch at that point was to get back to the island. I think a good example is Sayid. Jacob touched him but he still died on-island. Just my thinking.
@Isaac – I don’t think the candidates are ageless. Richard’s “Gift” was very specific to him for his specific job. My personal theory is that Candidacy can/will be passed on through lineage which may in turn be tied to the moratility of pregnant women on the Island.
If John Locke was a candidate, how did he die? In one of the last episodes, Jack was so confident that the dynamite wasnt going to blow up since he had a purpose, so if John Locke has the same purpose, why did fate allow Ben to kill John? Will John Locke come back to life just like it did with Sayid?
good thinking Isaac