Trans 2009-12-13: Season Three – Episodes 19-21

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This episode of “The Transmission” looks back at the next three episodes of Season 3 of “LOST”: “The Brig,” “The Man Behind the Curtain,” and “Greatest Hits.” We recap the episodes in eight minutes, then share our take. Next, listener feedback in “You All Everybody.” We share another song by The Others LOST Band. Finally, we report on the last two weeks of production here on The Island.

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Segments:

  • 0:00:42 Introduction
  • 0:02:22 “LOST” in 8 Minutes
  • 0:10:37 Sponsored by Audible.com
  • 0:12:44 Discussion
  • 0:43:11 You All Everybody
  • 1:15:12 “Greatest Hit” by The Others LOST Band
  • 1:18:08 The Forward Cabin
  • 1:25:38 Closing

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Next: We’ll cover the season finale of Season 3, “Through the Looking Glass.” We’d love your feedback! Email us at lost@hawaiiup.com, call the LOSTLine at (815) 310-0808, or leave a comment below by Friday, Dec. 25.

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33 Responses to “Trans 2009-12-13: Season Three – Episodes 19-21”

  1. Yann From France says:

    Sawyer IS Princess Leila!!! LOL!
    Jenn good point about Kate. Remember what Jacob told her: “Promise me you won’t steal again!” Yet after killing her father she will help Cassidy by buying a fake neckless helping a thief in her con. Which lead to: Cassidy helps her meet her mum telling Kate she will scream next time. Next time she screams, Kate try to run with her best friends… and he gets killed. So due to her helping a thief she got her friend killed. And no comment about the Bank fiasco where she shot all her “friends”.

    Ben is really the Man Behind The Curtain I like that part (less the part where he is a bad guy… is more a scared guy that like the power he has. Like the Wizard)

  2. Jesse says:

    I’m so peeved I didn’t get to comment on this podcast…
    The two Locke/Ben episodes are without a doubt my favorite on the season and maybe the series..
    Expect some major thoughts about the last two episodes though :)

  3. Jesse says:

    Questions I had on the rewatch (brig, man behind, and greatest hits) that I never got to ask:

    1. Desmond says that Claire will get on a helicopter with aaron and charlie will die so they can all get off the island. He then goes on to say that Charlie will flip a switch and drown. I think like the rest of the lost fans, we have always assumed (more like hoped) that a scene would take place where claire got on that chopper. But it didn’t and seasons go by with a dead charlie and a now deadish?! claire. I think we all hope that by the end of the next season this scene will take place.
    But what if it doesn’t… what does that mean for the whole Desmond visions episode series?
    Or, what if the reset occurs only off the island, and our losties find their way back and Charlie is alive again with Claire.
    Does this mean he gets to live out his days with his love and desmond’s visions were two seperate ones, spaced out by many years.
    OR
    do the writers pull a fast one and prove desmond is 100% right, and even though he saw two visions, Charlie dies a second time to save everyone. That would be pretty wild.

    2. When all the others say they have been waiting for Locke and when Richard shows so much interest in helping him (if he is actually helping him)…
    can we assume that now after season 5 all this season 3 talk about John being special is actually just brought on by his time travel misadventures back when he first meets Richard and tells him Jacob sent him and that he’s important.
    That first meeting, of course, makes Richard believe that Locke is the “chosen leader” even though we know the only reason why he thinks this is becuase Locke told him…. and the only reason Locke thinks this is becuase the others tell him. WHICH kinda gives us one of those compass style time loops. Either way…
    If richard is the only one who seems to really know where Jacob is and has talked with the guy… wouldn’t it figure that Richard would really know if Locke was the right man for the job. I mean he has to be important enough to Jacob to bring him back to life…
    but…
    ugh…
    what a strange story line.
    And now he’s dead!? Season 6…. you cannot come soon enough.

    Finally some random thoughts for you all to think about before I go watch the final two eps (season finale).

    With all this talk about 2 Locke’s… is it possible there are two Bens?! Back in season 4 there was a deleted scene with 2 Ben’s. Go look it up on the DVD!!!!

    Also, why does the man in black want to kill jacob anyway!?

    Finally, maybe all this talk about the incident isn’t the bomb going off or the electromagnectic stuff…
    but perhaps since there is no such thing as linear time on the island…
    maybe Jacob’s death is the incident that causes the island to go loopy?

    thoughts?

  4. Yann From France says:

    @Jesse:
    1_ Maybe Aaron left and Claire will in a second chopper. But if time has reset it seems unlikely. Them landing a second time on Island seems unlikely (two Claire in the same place would be bad! The whole world would explode).
    Now what is stange is: Desmond does not have any vision afterward! I suppose that the Constant blocked that. But now with the Variable AJ and Jacob in play… Maybe something “changed the rules” and that’s why Claire has stayed on Island… Something like… Christian? (Constant And Variables will explain a bit but I think the What About You is where I need to focus to understand what has been going on there)

    2_The answer is yes. And Jack with his “don’t loose faith in him”. And Richard knows where Jacob is BUT he doesn’t go talk to Jacob. Only the leader can! And Jacob has not told Richard that John was not ok because “What about you?”… Ok I tell you the deadline: “Where would be freewill if I told you everything?” (Does a catch phrase saying “Don’t tell me what I can’t do” doesn’t have a new meaning now?)

    I will explain the Ben shot in the 2nd part of my theorie. I will explain everything about tunisia. But it is just a past Ben that put some stuff their in case he would have to use it and just stumble apon himself who will use it.
    And please stop with the 2Johns or tell me how come there was a John body in Aljazira cargo? Where was John body all the time he was ON island then?

    I really like the Jacob/AJ question. I would say it is about Destiny/Freewill and how come they are on an Island…

    You need to watch season5 deleted scene about the incident. It IS the bomb and the chain of event that will reset time.

  5. bluedog1121 says:

    So in the timeline, “Looking Glass” takes place right around this time of the year (Dec 22/23). How seasonal! ;)

    This episode is heartbreaking. Charlie putting his hand up to Desmond through the window kills me every time. It’s hard for me to watch. I still don’t think I’m over Charlie’s death. I can’t hear “Good Vibrations” without getting sad!

    I love the reveal in the finale. Shocking. Having said that, though, the one point in Jack’s flashforward that I really have a problem with is the argument Jack has with the other doctor in the hospital. He tells him that his dad is right upstairs, and if Jack is drunker than Christian, blah blah blah. Christian has been dead so far for three years. Could Jack really be drunk/high enough that he doesn’t realize when he is? Doesn’t remember his father’s death? I feel like the writers threw those lines in as a major red herring, and it’s kind of cheap.

    But I do enjoy these episodes a lot, and they rewatch really well. (BTW, Jen, when my husband and I first watched “The Brig,” we remarked how Sawyer “just Jabba’ed Cooper.” You’re not alone in that thought! :) )

  6. Nate in Ohio says:

    Bludog…..remember that when Jack said that line (about his father being upstairs) he HAD seen his dad upstairs. This happened in Season 4′s “Something Nice Back Home”, when the smoke detector in Jack’s office went off and as he was changing it, he saw his dad sitting on the couch saying “Jack”. This occured before the flashforward you are talking about (in the timeline) even though we didn’t see it until after.

  7. Rich in Cleveland says:

    On the helicopter connundrum:
    The parsimonious solution is that Aaron came back to the island with Grandmother Littleton on 316 and that Madonna & child will escape a vanishing Atlantis on another helicopter. Not what we at first thought, but a prophecy fulfilled. Now allow me to throw another monkey wrench into this explanation. In “The Little Prince” Kate & Aaron enter the elevator (yet another vehicle to ascend or descend) and she makes some offhand comment about how Aaron needs to push the button. Desmond has the gift of vision, but only of one competing outcome of Fate.

  8. Rich in Cleveland says:

    I’m feeling a little freighter disorientation right now. In other words, Aaron becomes Desmond’s successor in the prisoner of dharma version rather than flying away to freedom.

  9. Rich in Cleveland says:

    @Jesse & Yann
    No, we can’t assume Locke gained his preeminence as a quirk of disruptions in time. “You have no idea what I had to go through….” It was design bought at a terrible price. The crux of the whole chain of events that caused Locke to be deemed the chosen one was his arrival at the Others’ movable feast in “Jughead.” He said “Jacob sent me.” Would anyone other than Esau appreciate the power of this simple phrase? If Locke were genuine, he would have been aware of Jacob at this point, but it would have been all too easy for a more malevolent force to establish his credentials by invoking this power beyond question at this critical point.

  10. Yann From France says:

    @Rich: We have seen S3 ending and by now we know how much important Jacob is in Locke’s mind and how the Others are now “his people”.
    I will make you remember the end of S4 where he has to ask if they will explain everything to him once he is with them.
    And final point: WHERE IS JOHN BODY IF HE IS NOW THE MAN IN BLACK? AND HOW COME IF MAN IN BLACK MOVED THE ISLAND (and thus leave without anything and no way to come back), HE IS ABLE TO PUT JOHN CORPSE OUT ISLAND (and if you say he faked is dead (and he faked the suicide just before Ben come?) Where did he found the body to put in the cargo of Aljazira airline (and if you find an idea you will have to tell me WHY he would do something that stupid))

  11. NuckinFuts says:

    Great finale & thanks for all the input by everyone here and of course Ryan & Jenn! “ttlg episode” Was fun time and will never forget how sad and excited I was all at once between Charlie’s death & “we have to go back!!!”. Now looking with season5 eyes not sure that Charlie programmed computer because several other people have proven their skills on piano … Jack, Ben, & more although it was suprising how good/easy he could create that (always have been jealous of talented musicians). I don’t think john had changed to flocke yet … I think that he is simply obsessed with something he cannot understand ( the island) just like he is with games and his daddy issues and phone sex operators, etc…. Is his personality and that is why anti-Jacob uses him…”his psych profile is amenable to coercion”. Other 815ers & people can tell the island is special (rose, for example), but they don’t have an underlying & internal need to think that it means that they are “special”….even Richard in watching John grow up knew he was nothing too significant. So I don’t think John is “flocke” until his death off island and his body returned… The problem is that John’s life obsession spread to others because they could see that the island was special too and so they believed John because he came across as in the know when really he was being fooled…have a great holiday!

  12. Bonita in Atlanta says:

    Just finished Looking Glass rewatch and like Bluedog, I still wonder at Jack saying his father is upstairs, but I agree it could be the drugs and booze talking.

    My biggest question was why Rousseau stayed with the Losties or helped them at all? Her character warrants further exploration but I presume we won’t get much of it unless it ties to a Richard Flashback.

    Hooray for Hurley and the Dharma van,
    Shame on Bernard for squealing.
    wholey shamoley to Sawyer and Sayid and Jin for their part in taking out the others.
    Boo to Locke for Killing Naomi, I mean it was amazingly dramatic but it follows a long drawn out manipulation by Locke to have someone else do his dirty work. [Sawyer killing Cooper]

    Very poignant that Jack caused the accident that made him a hero. This theme played out heavily in the following season.

    I’m sure there’s much more to say and think about and I look forward to your next podcast,
    Mahalo

  13. Jesse says:

    Took a look at the finale for the rewatch and while I still feel it is THE best finale of the show so far (I would have picked season 5, but the only reason why it’s good is becuase it gives a major answer we all craved).
    In the first hour, ben has a discussion with Mikal about why he’s jamming signals off the island that goes something like this:

    Ben: everything I did I did for the island.
    Mikal: the island told you it was necessary for you to jam your own people?
    Ben replies that he needs to trust him and that jacob told him to do it.
    Mikal:why would jacob ask you to lie to your own people?”
    Ben: becuase this island is under assault, by forces stronger than anything it’s had to deal with in many many years. And they are mean to protect it, by any means necessary.

    This leads to 3 thoughts.
    1. Ben jammed the island’s transmissions for his own personal gain…no clue what that would be.
    2. Ben has been receving orders from Richard who has been in contact with jacob and is blocking the signals for some reason..
    OR
    3. My favorite idea, Ben has only ever been in contact with AJ (since he admits to never actually seeing jacob) and this man in black has had been block the island’s communications so no one else could come there. Becuase just like the first season of the season 5 finale, he’s dislikes when people come to the island that jacob brings. So if they can’t find it, he can’t bring them.

    OR, I suppose Richard is working for the man in black…

    I guess I don’t really know, but I thought the jamming played a role in the over all plot line. Any thoughts?

  14. Yann From France says:

    @Jesse: The first answer is the right one I think. What does he have to gain? Control on the Island instead of Widmore (and he admit it to Locke by telling him whose boat it is). He removed Widmore, he kept the Island, the freighter is coming to remove him and put Widmore back… What “personal gain” doesn’t he have here?

    Sorry I won’t be discussing the last episode and I won’t have my “whole theorie” ready now. Why? Christmas and my phd… Yes for a big part.

    But the main reason is: THE PRISONER! I am rewatching all the episodes! I can tell you one thing, it will remain my best tv show! So clever, so provocative, the study on human bondaries and control, Rover(!), The Village Brand… Each episode can be taken individualy and is just a joy, a thrill and mind blowing each time! If you want to ask yourself “who am I, what am I doing here and more than anything how do the world interact with me” you must see this show!

  15. Jesse says:

    Is there a place online to watch it… like Hulu or something..
    I caught the very first episode and then missed every one since and have hated myself for it.
    I love me some Ian McKellen

  16. Mike.in.VA says:

    Through the Looking Glass

    After watching this episode when it first aired, I was so blown away by “the snake in the mailbox” (the producers’ code name for the final scene) — “we have to go baaaack” — that I must have watched it 20 times before season 4 began. At the time, it was such a game changer, unlike any other show before or since, that I never got bored with watching it. It blew me away every time.

    Now over 2 years later, after watching it again today, it still stands as one of the best episodes of the series. Even though I now know the off-island scenes are a flash forward, it still packs a punch.

    As for the on-island story, some favorite scenes/quotes:

    - I had forgotten how much I enjoyed watching Jack beat the living sh-t out of Ben.

    - The Danielle/Alex reunion – bonding over tying up Ben – was just priceless.

    - Danielle knocking out Ben while he’s tied to the tree and yelling for Locke to shoot Jack – again, just priceless.

    - Hurley saving the day and being so excited about it when radioing Jack. It was so great to see him contribute after being turned away by Sawyer and Charlie.

    - Sawyer killing Tom – “that’s for taking the kid off the raft” and when Hurley says Tom was surrendering, Sawyer responding “I didn’t believe him.” We finally felt like the Losties were getting the upper hand. Finally.

    - Charlie talking to Penny – so hopeful and exciting.

    - And of course, Charlie’s death scene was so very well done. Very poignant.

    - I love the aerial photography of that last scene with the Losties arriving at the radio tower.

    - The contact with the freighter and what seemed like imminent rescue was so………… hopeful. Alas, we know that was not to be, but I still enjoyed it this time around.

    Thanks so much for the Season 3 re-watch, I’ve really enjoyed it. And I enjoyed the bonus podcasts (HIIFF Master Classes) immensely. You guys have made the hiatus totally bearable. I can’t thank you enough.

    Now my goal is to watch Season 5 one more time before Feb 2!

    Thanks again, Happy Holidays and Happy 2010!

    Best Regards,
    Mike R.

  17. Yann From France says:

    @Jesse: HO MY GOD! I am talking about the original TV show! Not a remake! Always go for the original! It’s a 68 tv show but they enhanced the quality last year so the new DVD or Bluerays are just wonderfull…
    I don’t dare watching the new version. I saw “The Hitchicker Guide To The Universe” movie/remake… and I was sick! How could they ruin such a wonderfull book!!!
    Always go for the classics! Remakes are for people that don’t know how to create something new themself! (I am harsh I know)

  18. Christy in TX says:

    Some awesome comments, guys. The talk of the two Lockes and Bens has me wondering if the flash backs and Flash fowards are supposed to represent a view of “christmas past” and “christmas future” so to speak. I mean, I wonder if they are on the island to contemplate what they have done and how they have reacted to others in the past and currently (their 2004-2007 current), and if they were supposed to “see” these glimpses of the future (2007) to guide them into more appropriate choices?
    I know I am going a bit meta-theory here, but the topics above, like when does Locke become Deadlocke, etc. have me wondering if they have been “observing” their own pasts and futures like we have, and Deadlocke is using the convenience of the “dead version” of Locke’s body being in the vicinity as an opportunity to end the game, or observations, since it “only ends once”
    OK, I am now already thinking I’m going crack-potty, so I will cease.

    Anyone else going to the Sunset on the Beach Destiny Lost think in Hawaii?

    BYW, I have never heard of The Prisoner, but I know from reading posts that Yann likes to really think about stuff – so I am going to try to find this old show,
    Less than 2 months to go!!!!
    ChristyinTX

  19. Christy in TX says:

    By the way, @Jesse and @Yann, The orifinal 17 episodes of The Prisoner can be viewed on AMCTV.COM. You can also view (at least some) of their re-make series. I can’t wait to dive in to the original, though.

  20. Yann From France says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18vsYFF0rTE
    Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!

    Merry christmass to you all!

  21. Carol in MA says:

    Mike from Va, your thoughts mirror mine. All great moments from that episode.

    BlueDog- I agree, I always thought the “dad upstairs” comment was thrown in to throw us off that it was the present. He doesn’t seem that far gone that he wouldn’t know his father was alive. The other doctor does look shocked and disgusted by the comment.

    Loved this episode then and after mulitple viewings it still holds up. Charlie’s death still makes me tear up. What a beautifully shot scene.

    re: Ben not killing Jin, Bernard and Sayid. He was so indifferent to killing everyone else. Why save them? I now think he knew they all had to be alive to travel back to Dharmaville in 1977.

  22. Beth in Winter Wonderland says:

    Sawyer killing Cooper in The Brig is one of the greatest scenes of all of television. Ever. I almost had to look away the first time I watched it, it was so intense. Superb acting!

    Thanks for the show, we <3 it!

  23. Rich in Cleveland says:

    “Through the Looking Glass” has it all– triumph, tragedy, treachery, and trickery. I can only hope the grand finale will approach the mind-twisting power of this episode. I was especially vulnerable to the “snake in the mailbox” because I harbored a longstanding belief that Jack also had a dark history for which he would need to redeem himself on the island. Suggestions such as a girl leaving him because she was disturbed at what he said while talking in his sleep, the out-of-character tatoos, combined with the whole downward momentum following his split and obsession with Sarah made me think this. From the first moment he was clinking his ice like Christian with that already-departed-from-the-world appearance, I was dancing in the aisles (at being right, not at Jack’s misery.) Then try to imagine the stunned open-mouthed expression I had as I slowly realized the truth of the flash forward. The only regret I have is that while still great, you can never totally recapture that first feeling again, a la “The Sixth Sense.” Bravo!

  24. Carol in MA says:

    Itunes has the Lost pilot and all the 5 season summary shows for free downloading. I just rewatched the summary of Season 5. Darlton says that the season “flashes” all had specific reasons for flashing to those times, hmmm, wonder how the Island could control that, or the flashes were manipulated by Jacob or the man in black.

    Rich – great point re: sixth Sense, you are right, as excellent as the episode is, the first time was the best. I envy the people who haven’t watched Lost yet.

    I just bought all the season on blu-ray with the Amazon deal a couple of weeks ago, I may donate all my season 1-4 dvd’s to my library so other people can enjoy them and experience Lost.

    I have felt like the past 8 months is like Christmas Eve and the first episode of this season will be like “Christmas” The anticipation is killing me.

  25. Rich in Cleveland says:

    The “father upstairs” may or may not be a stretch literally, depending on whether or not we’re in an alternate reality or whether Jack is just referencing a vision that has an objective reality from what could be our omniscient perspective, but that would be complete lunacy to any conventional point of view

    However, this description totally fits metaphorically. Sun pauses, with great trepidation, before the stairs that lead up to her father’s gleaming office. The demanding parent issues his/her decrees and the heirs follow them as best they can as they navigate the trials of the grand wager between the forces of dark and light. The parent is always the primary spirit guide, in the worst of cases pushing us toward darkness. But as Jacob has made clear, the choice reamins our own.

  26. Rich in Cleveland says:

    Another comment that caught my attention anew was when the funeral director asked Jack if he were family or friend at Locke’s casket viewing. Innocuous enough on the surface. But it seemed to reinforce a dichotomy that has been growing for some time. In Locke’s dream in “Further Instructions,” Boone says he must bring the family back together. Contrast that with the numerous references to friendship that we’ve picked up on over time. “My friend…” etc. Family is something more predetermined by blood inheritance while friendship is more elective, more egaliatrian. Fate vs. free will. Widmore believes the island belongs to him by primogeniture while Ben believes we are free to create our own destinies. The only questions that remain are: who do they serve and do they know who they serve?

  27. Rich in Cleveland says:

    It’s so great to see everyone coming back. For awhile, all I saw was Yann, Bonita, & Bluedog. I think we can all agree that Yann deserves some trinket for keeping this alive. The minute we lose people like that, “this whole thing goes away.” Don’t ask me to explain it, but he’s wrong about Flocke though.

  28. Christy in TX (aka QueenoftheUniverse) says:

    @Rich in Cleveland – so right about @Yann, that does deserve recognition for staying so involved even during such a loooong hiatus. I’ve been reading and listening along, but I usually only post when I have something to add that hasn’t been mentioned, so that is becoming less frequent – every idea I have has usually been surfaced by others on here. Anyway, maybe we should plan a trip to Hawaii for the finale to give @Yann the recognition due for both being the ‘Most frequent poster’ and for the PhD, anyone else in?
    I think we discussed during Season 5 staying at the scary hotel that was used as Miles’ childhood home when he moved there with his mom and heard the dead man talking. I think Ryan and Jen mentioned it was now a seedy motel. We can have safety in numbers!
    If @Yann can’t make it, MAYBE we can move the party to France? HAHA!

    Hope everyone has a good holiday season and stays safe!
    Thank you Ryan and Jen for adding to our enjoyment of being Lost fans by keeping good conversation going throughout the hiatus. The HIFF podcasts were a rare glimpse into the behind-the-scenes work that goes into the magic we see on our televisions.

  29. overcommitta says:

    Hey Ryan and Jen-
    Love you well-organized podcasts, and it’s been a blast revisiting S3. I especially love the momentum started in “the Man from Tallahassee” that hasn’t let up all the way thru “The Incident”. My wife grew up in Honolulu and gets a kick out of seeing buildings and streets she knows well doubling for places all over the world. Watching the eps consecutively really, really eliminates any “weak” episodes. I agree w/Jen that Juliet’s reason for turning around the sub was weak sauce, and remain unconvinced. Perhaps she’s a pawn of someone…
    What lies in the shadow of the statue? The one who will save us all. But what if ‘lies’ refers to a “liar” ? AND WHO’S THE BIGGEST LIAR IN THE HISTORY OF TELEVISION? Benjamin Linus, that’s who. will. save. us. all. Mahalo.

  30. Bonita in Atlanta says:

    Hey, y’all, FYI – I Tunes has all the recaps and the Season I pilot free this week.
    See ya in 2010.

  31. Jesse says:

    Ok here’s my question upon rewatch after rewatch…

    Who actually works for Jacob? I’m almost willing to assume no one at this point…
    not Richard, not Illana (spelling?), not the others…
    no one..

    maybeeeee the few select losties…

    but follow me here.

    Everyone assumes jacob is at the cabin…
    but he’s just been chilling at the statue making tapestries the entire time (cue line from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade).

    I think I can assume to say the guy in the cabin was Flocke, MIB, AJ, whatever.

    And even Illana who went to see Jacob went to the cabin first.

    anyone have thoughts on this? Maybe everyone has been played by AJ the entire time?
    Or did Jacob live in the cabin for a time?

    My point is I don’t know why he would move from the statue to the cabin? Change of scenery :P ?

  32. Yann From France says:

    @Jesse: Exactly my theory! And why? Because if Jacob represent the “free will” how could he give order order to anyone? And thus why he told Ben “What about you” it really means: What do you do with your life… what are you going to do…
    And so everyone work for the real God godlike behing: AJ

  33. Sharon says:

    For some reason this episode was not in the iTunes podcast feed.

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