“Locke’s fateful mission off the island as Jeremy Bentham is revealed.” We’ll post our initial reactions after the episode airs here in Honolulu, but we’d love to have your thoughts and theories for our next podcast. Please comment below, send us an e-mail at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LostLine at (808) 356-0127 by Friday, Feb. 27.
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Great episode, I’m on Widmore’s side now 🙂
Anyhow, I am sure I saw Sayid’s “murdered” wife (nardia) in the hospital in Tunisia when Locke appears, since Locke subsequently visits Sayid and is told a few years have past since his wife was murdered, is she still ALIVE
What a wonderful episode. I have a strange feeling it will satisfy fans from the “they left too much conveniently unanswered” camp and those from the “they answered that too quickly” camps simultaneously, which is saying something.
I hope your site is back up soon — would love to take part in the discussion.
I absolutely LOVED the acting by Michae Emerson and Terry O’Quinn at the end… plus a brief and fleeting moment of insight from Kate AND Jack in the same episode. Amazing.
Did we see a brief glimpse of Nadia in the Tunisian hospital?
OMG! michael emerson is AWESOME! I didn’t believe BEN when he was trying to talk-down LOCKE, and was satisfied when he strangled him (that sure sounds sick, that I was satisfied…). I really did think that LOCKE was just ‘sleeping’ from the Medusa Spider – so I guess my theory is busted. But I was definately THRILLED with this episode.
However, Abaddon’s dead! – I think he’s creepy and wanted to see more of him.
I want to go on the record – when this is all said and done, I think the Jughead will be blown up the day before 815 flies (therefore never crashing – not my theory, but I like it!) – but Locke will find Helen and hook up with her before she dies in 2006 (that’s my idea!).
Love the podcast! Look forward to it each week – would have left a message on the Lost Line – but It’s 1:40 AM your time and I didnt’ want to wake you up! Ha hA
I was heartsick when I went to http://www.hawaiiup.com/lost and saw an error message. I’m way too addicted to this show.
I felt this episode was darker and creepier than I would have liked, but I trust the writers had good reason.
My husband and I were discussing motivation for Ben to first save Locke and then kill him. We believe he didn’t know the name of the person who could help both Ben and the Oceanic Six return to the island. When he finds Locke about to hang himself, he sees it as a lost opportunity to use someone to get to the island. Once he gets Eloise’s name, however, he sees Locke as only a threat to his leadership once back on the island. If this is the case, though, why work so hard to get Locke’s body back on the island? Is it only as a proxy? Does he know the island will restore Locke?
Hi Ryan & Jen! I’ve been listening to your podcast for a while but this is my first time commenting. It was interesting to see the power struggle play out between Widmore and Ben over Locke. It really makes me wonder who is manipulating whom. Ben’s murder of Locke was one of the most chilling moments in the entire series and seems to show that Ben is evil incarnate. Thanks for all you do and I’m looking forward to the podcast!
Hello Ryan & Jen. I just recently found your website/podcast and I must say, it’s going to be a routine of mine every week from now on (heck I hope you two will still be able to think of ideas after the show ends). About last night’s episode…wow. Last episode Ben was comparing how what’s happening now can be reflected upon what the Oceanic Six are doing, and with the murder of Locke, it’s an obvious sign that Locke is shown as Jesus (duh! He even revived from the dead a few days later), and Ben is Judas. If we have Jesus and Judas, what does that make Widmore? King Harod? He did give orders to kill everybody on the island (except for Ben of course)…
Ok, sorry for the biblical speak (I’m not even that overly religeous). The sad thing is, looking at the promo for next week’s episode LaFleur, we see Ben walking in the woods with Sun, so clearly he doesn’t become Locke’s prisoner (bumber). Oh well, I can’t wait until the site is back up again. I hope to be listening from you guys soon!
Hey Ryan and Jen!
Hope you guys are well!
WOW!
What an amazing episode! We now know how the story got to where we are at now. I knew Ben couldn’t be trusted! Ben has tried to kill him once before and I got a little emotional at the end..LOL. Why didn’t Locke listen to Christian Shepard…he listened to Ben and look where that got him.
It seems to me that the Oceanic 6 are in a different time period(Darhma Days) than Locke and the “New Losties”. I think they are in the future.
Question: If Locke stopped the wheel, and the island has indeed stopped “time shifting” will Locke meet up with Jack and the rest of the O6?
Theory: I am wondering if it was Sun and lupidas that took a canoe..
Question 2: If so why didn’t Sun get transported back in time with the O6?
Question: Why doesn’t Locke remember the canoe’s?..or does he..
It was just “4” days ago that he paddled around the island to get to the Orchid station..
I think we “sort of” know who “could have been” on the other canoe..maybe..The New Losties.
OMG..I just want to “Flash Forward” to next weeks episode!
look forward to the Podcast!
-Jonine
Hey Ryan and Jen…glad to see the site is back up! Hope everything is okay : )
Great episode last night! I’m more confused than ever though, as to who is good and who is bad. Who should we be rooting for? Are our Losties just pawns in this game between widmore and ben? Something tells me that the Losties will turn the tables on both ben and widmore in the end.
I was bothered by Locke-Jack’s scene. In season 3 finale, Jack is broken up enough over Locke’s death to attemt suicide. In last season’s finale, Jack says that Locke told him that “bad things happened after I left. And he said it was my fault for leaving.” Jack also told Kate that Locke said the only way to keep her and Aaron safe was to go back to the island. Did I miss something? Locke said none of those things to Jack during their encounter! Ryan and Jen, PLEASE help me make sense of this!
Hi Ryan and Jen,
I’ve been listening to your podcast for awhile, but this is my first post. I think last night’s episode kills the “Ben is a good guy” theory. I agree with paintergirl, Ben saved Locke to get the information he needed to and then killed him when he didn’t need him any more. Ben’s only motivation is to retake control of the island. The question still remains, however, if Charles Widmore is good or bad. I’m guessing he is also a “bad guy” and that, like Ben, he was trying to use Locke in order to retake the island.
Also, I have a theory unrelated to this last episode. I think Ben has already killed Penny. That’s why he was standing at the dock looking bloody and beaten. Penny’s death is going to cause Desmond to use his “time altering powers” to try and prevent this from happening. In order to accomplish this, Desmond will have to go back to the island. That’s my wacky theory and I’m sticking to it 🙂
Love the podcast, keep up the great work 🙂
1. Ben will not be out manipulated by another manipulator !
2. Are we back to two islands? I already gave my guess for the island “jumping” near another island during one of it’s time shifts.
3. John didn’t tell Walt that his name was Jeremy Bentham… but Walt refers to him as that when he sees Hurley in the nut-hut. Is it from a dream that he got the name or is that a mistake?
4. Sun probably needed Jin, while Lupidas was not on the original flight- so they could not get “back” properly.
5. Now we know what set Jack off to Flyin’ and drinkin’ n druggin’.
6. This ALMOST made me forget about the fact that we have yet to see how the other losties got to the plane and what happened to Ben that got him all banged up.
Hi I’m Knives Monroe. I just want to say that I love the Podcast and the blog, and everything that Ryan and Jen do. Please keep up the good work.
Let me start off by saying that once the show ended, and we saw the preview for next week, I immediately ran to my computer and went to hawaiiwup.com/lost and I FINALLY had the nerve to place a voice mail! But as we all know the site was down. My initial reaction was obviously “wow this episode was so darn good that it crash the site with response” I don’t know if that’s the case or not but, just wanted to say that I now have lost my nerve. 🙁 However I digress, I have much to talk about:
Just want to say that this episode was really great. 316 and The L and D of JB are very emotional and very personal and so effective. Together those episodes really illustrated to us how far we’ve come. Now I think this episode would have definitely worked better if it aired BEFORE 316, but it was still so much fun to see this way. It works both ways.
Widmore called that place in Tunisia as the “exit”. How appropriate. I have to say that it is hard NOT to be on Charles Widmore’s side now. A War is coming…. and the ‘wrong’ side shouldn’t win. Note how he didn’t say ‘bad’ or ‘evil’ side. ‘Wrong’. Well that’s a wee bit vague now isn’t. I still trust Widmore. I mean lets think of Widmore this way.
Widmore funded Daniel Faraday’s Research. Which mean that Widmore supports and understands Dan’s ‘work’. Okay. Now we know that Daniel tells Desmond that the ‘rules’ don’t apply to him, and that he’s special. Hmmm. Widmore has mentioned ‘rules’ before hasn’t he. Okay. So we know that Desmond spoke to Daniel in the early 90’s (the Constant). With ALL this information we know that Widmore has been brash, cruel, and very unfair TO Desmond, naturally we assume that Widmore is a ‘bad guy’. How can we not. But given the recent information on HOW much Widmore knows, we can assume that its a matter of perspective. What I’m trying to get at is, is it possible that Widmore KNOWS how special Desmond is, and that it’s his destiny to get to the island? Why not? He had Matthew Abbadon. He knows how to get people to the places there supposed to be. Via the race around the world (Live Together Die Alone). I’m just saying that Charles Widmore doesn’t sound as harsh as we considered him to be years ago. Now that we have more information. 🙂 And may I mention that Charles also knew Ellie (who MAY be Dan’s mother) who regulates the Lamp Post. You can’t tell me that Charles with all his wisdom doesn’t know of the Lamp Post.
Sorry, I really got into Charles Widmore there. Now on to the rest of the episode.
I just want to say that Matthew Abbadon was a wonderful character. Very Mystical and Memorizing. I loved him.
Let me take the time to say that this episode has so many GREAT and I mean AMAZING performance’s by the likes of Terry O’Quinn, Michael Emmerson, Matthew Fox, even the fella that plays Abbadon. Wonderful performances, wow I almost forgot how great actors they all are. OOH Not to foget Widmore. Wonderful actor.
I was so shocked to see Abaddon get shot. That was no fair! Hugo was great, but his character is really starting to annoy me. He’s a little too psycho. He made up for himself in 316 by being the HUGO we all love and purchasing most of the tickets on 316.
I just want to say that SAYID JARRAH has been my favourite character since season 1. I love Sayid. That’s why it totally broke my heart to see who he became when he got off the island. An assassin…. FOR BEN LINUS… It was so relieving for me (Sayid’s number one fan) to see Sayid doing some good work for once.
Let me tell you about Sayid. He gets on O815 to find Nadia. He gets stuck on island for 100 days, he gets off and marries the woman he loves. Thank goodness. Then she gets murdered, and turns into a deadly assassin for Benjamin Linus, a man he swore to never trust. Then Sayid, a man with much wealth due to a large settlement of Oceanic Airlines, goes south of the border to help build schools? It’s a start Sayid. I still love you. You will find yourself again. I promise.
Kate was extraordinary, but utterly LOST in this episode wasn’t she?
Poor John and his long lost love…now dead. That’s heartbreaking.
Jack and John seeing each other was an amazing scene. Jack was stoned and probably drunk and was sporting the midbeard. It’s great. But to see him still NOT believing… I mean its retched.
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER: That once Jack read’s the obit of Jeremy Bentham, he tries to kill himself. But Island didn’t let him. That is when Jack realized. Was it too late? Was it all apart of the grand scheme of things? It comes down to what YOU believe, doesn’t.
Benjamin Linus…Let me just say. He had me screaming at the top of my lungs at my TV. I think I threw my chair (no joke) to the floor. I couldn’t believe that he murdered John. I seriously did not expect that. BEN!!! I was just starting to trust you, you LIAR!!! THere is no reason why he killed Locke other than that Ben is cold, heartless, and the grandest manipulator in ALL of Television. I love that, but when you murder John Locke, that’s a whole ‘nother thing. I wonder what Locke is gonna do to Ben. (on the island)
I just want to make a note that the 316 Losties are on the 2nd “Hydra” Island. How odd, but amazing. And I although I have MANY questions: I have but ONE regarding this episode:
The Ajira 316 Plane. It’s on the Hydra Island. Where do the remains go, once were back in the ‘present time’ ? That’s all I want to know.
So far, no paradox’s. Every Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse written episode is amazing. These guys really know what they’re doing.
Thanks for reading. And thanks for this chance to voice my opinion.
xxxstraightedgexxx
Sincerely,
Knives Monroe from Texas.
I loved the episode. However, can you please tell me how Caeser was able to locate the Swan so easily? Also, what was he looking for in the file cabinets?
Hey There:
What if Ben knows that Locke needs to die in order to go back- it has been clear there has to be a sacrifice…but Ben does not know a piece of the puzzle (remember when he sent Locke to Jacob to get instructions and jacob told Locke to move the Island but ben did it instead? He sent Locke because Jacob was no longer communicating with Ben.) Same here- Christian told Locke what he had to do…if Locke died then Ben would not know- so as soon as Locke spills the beans about Eloise then Ben knows he needs to Kill Locke in order o get back to the Island.
What I am getting at is maybe, just maybe, what Ben did was not evil- though admittedly it sure looked like pure evil and smelled like pure evil, but like Judas he had to off Locke for the good of the rest (including himself)…This episode sure wanted us to like Widmore and hate Ben- but I am not sure we should be jumping on that flight to Widmore-ville just yet…what if – what if- what Ben did was what he had to do…what needed to be done…
Killing him so Ben can be the leader makes no sense if he is bringing Locke back and therefore back to life…except if he is just using “dead Locke” to get himself back to the island just to try and get rid of him there…which is entirely possible.
I have recently been watching the old Henry Gale episodes which I love and just saw the Helen episode (AKA Lockedown) which is a great compliment to This episode…you get to see that same struggle between ben and Locke and how ben has to help Locke when his leg is trapped under the door (BTW same leg that we see injured over and over and over again). I recommend that episode as and early look at this ongoing (and so well played) dilemma of whether Benjamin Linus is the good guy or the bad guy. He certainly does a lot of bad things…This episode made me excited for season 6 and the war that we first hear about when Jack asks Ana Lucia “how long does it take to train an army?” in Season 2.
Michael Emerson deserves an Emmy…he is just brilliant.
Love the podcast.
Hey Ryan and Jen,
I just watched the episode and I have to say it was my favorite for this season so far. I really felt the connection with Locke’s frustration in trying to accomplish his mission on bringing everyone back. Also, he knows he has to bring them back, but he does not know why, or what will happen if he’s not able to do it.
Also, Ben is really on his way to become one of the greatest villains of all time. He’s really confusing, nobody can believe a single word he says! (remember Mrs. Hawking saying that too?) Plus the way he kills John is just awful.
Anyway, I was discussing with my sis, and we both think that in one of these weird twists, Widmore will be the good guy…….or we will come to find out everything’s just a weird dream in Vincent’s head (haha).
I loved the scene in Dominican Republic, the guys really speak with Dominican accent, that was a funny touch.
Anyway, I can’t wait to listen to your podcast again, which in my opinion is the best!
Cheers!
Héctor
Scott-Flight 316 seems to have landed on the small island, off of the coast of THE MAIN ISLAND, where the Hydra Station frjom Season 3 is located. Locke was standing on the beach looking accross the water to the bigger Island. All of the buildings on that small island seemed to be fairly out in the open and easily accessible.
Loved how Locke’s murder scene mirrored the scene in The Brig where Sawyer murders Locke’s dad: like father, like son?
Widmore came accross as very genuine and believable…he makes Ben’s statements seem all the more false and desperate. Still, I am not ready to jump on the Widmore bandwagon, just yet. Maybe Ben seems desperate because he *IS* desperate…telling the truth and no one will believe him.
I’m a newcomer to your podcast, but I love it! After the last episode, I just don’t know who to trust anymore. Just when I was starting to believe that Ben was actually telling the truth about keeping everybody safe, he KILLS LOCKE! I did NOT see that one coming. Anyway, that brings me to my theory that I’ve pondering for some time: When Claire said “Don’t you dare bring him back!” in Kate’s dream, what if she wasn’t talking about Aaron? Maybe she meant Ben! Anyway, keep up the great work!
Namaste,
Mike in St. Louis
Wow. wow. wow. wow.
This show rocks, and Terry O’Quinn deserves an Emmy, People’s Choice Award, American Academy Award, European Film Award, Golden Globe, Amanda Award, Australian Film Institute Award, British Academy of Film and Television Arts, Cesar Award, Crystal Globe, Grammy, Congressional Gold Medal, Nobel Peace Prize, and any/every other applicable and non-applicable award for that performance (disclosure: all hail Wikipedia for the list).
The way he carried the gamut of emotions during his conversation with Kate alone — speaking a few lines, revealing volumes with his expressions…truly amazing.
And soko, I too was curious about John’s not revealing to Walt his alias of Jeremy Bentham. I am left wondering if Ben knows the alias and maybe tells Walt after Abaddon and John leave? A stretch, I know, but I got’s nothing aside from that.
I love the fact that I consistently can’t wait for next week’s episode.
Cheers
hi ryan and jen. i’m not sure ben is the bad guy. maybe john won’t be ressurected if he kills himself in loss of faith. maybe he did him a favour. it is not his mentioning of hawking or jin that did it – he came ready with gloves and stuff anyway!
as for ajira – do you think the plane actually was landed softly on the runaway kate and sawyer helped built in season 3 on the hydra? the plane looked intact, everyone was accounted for and in that long shot of ceaser and illana walking by the plane it seems like a clear runaway.
I found the episode very predictable.
Ben killing Locke was an obvious turn, and apparently he just needed names first. I think this because Ben apparently KNEW Locke would hurt himself, or he wouldn’t have kicked the door down and been so smooth in convincing him to stop for a minute and trust Ben.
Also, we saw the number 23 directly point to a Character in the story – Widmore told John to dial 23 on his phone to instantly get in touch with him. So, are the Numbers == People???
Also, I think they just got rid of Walt for good. It was the writers’ way of telling us that they’re done with Walt. Here’s a dream, they let him go, no island, his rapid growth explained, there, end of story, can we let it go now?
Widmore knew the Exit point of the Island. Very interesting.
Why revisit Locke’s “Love”? Really?
Good episode, not my favorite at all. I did finally cave on the fact that Locke will do ANYTHING if you tell him he’s special.
Me: “Hey John, mow my lawn.”
John: “No”
Me: “But you must John, you’re special!”
John: “Well OK, where’s the mower.”
He’s just a puppet the others like to manipulate.
It’s possible that Walt knew Locke’s alias (Jeremy Bentham) Because of the dreams he was having.
I keep hearing theories that Ben kept Locke from committing suicide because if he killed himself, he wouldn’t be allowed to return to the island. After re-watching the scene from Life and Death where Locke and Abbadon talk about death being a choice, I’m convinced that the Island meant for Locke to kill himself.
If Locke is the Christ-character, then maybe he was supposed to sacrifice himself for the island, and maybe Ben talking Locke down kept him from making this sacrifice?
Glad the sight is back up!
What a GREAT episode!
I think L.O.S.T. is Land Outside of Space and Time. We shall see….
I don’t think Ben or Widmore are particularly good or honest people. My question is was Eloise working for Widmore before Locke tipped Ben off that she was there and then Ben had to kill Locke and find some way to manipulate Eloise to help him get everyone else back. Eloise didn’t seem particularly afraid, per se, but she also didn’t seem to have much love for Ben either. The reason Eloise was ahead of Desmond by the time he got there is because Ben got there first.
I also think Richard might be whizzing through time like John, rather than being something supernatural.
@Ben – I have to agree that they might not tie up the Walt thing. When Abbadon said “He got big” and Locke said “The boy’s been through enough” it felt like they were closing the door.
I am disappointed if that is the case.
@Scott – I agree that Cesar seemed somewhat acquainted with the island already and seemed to be looking for something in particular.
I googled “Caesar” and “Bible” (I know not everything here is Biblical, but thought it couldn’t hurt) and I came up with:
“Octavian, later known as Caesar Augustus, is only mentioned once in The Bible, when he ordered that a census be taken of the Roman world. That census caused the birth of Jesus Christ to occur in Bethlehem, exactly as prophesied, rather than in Nazareth where Joseph and Mary were then living.”
It definitely seems like LOST’s Caesar is in charge of things and keeping track of where everything is. I am curious to see where his allegiances lie, he definitely knows things, but how much?
Few more questions:
How did Sayid get away from Ilana and why doesn’t she seem concerned about it? Where is Sayid?
Many people predicted that Ilana and Caesar were working for Ben, but it is not looking that way. Caesar did not know who Ben was at all. I am leaning towards them working for Widmore, but again they don’t seem to be on any specific mission the way the other Widmore-dispatched people were…
What about Locke’s shoes? They showed them on the beach and they were quite worn…..they weren’t that worn when Jack put them on Locke in the casket. Hhmmm…………….
Hey Ryan and Jen!
Just a list of questions from me…. no answers.
Did anyone else notice Ben’s reaction when Locke told Ben that Jin was still alive? I wonder if Ben would have still killed Locke if he would not have mentioned Jin? And how does Ben know Eloise Hawking??
Love the Podcast!!
Ryan and Jen,
This was a great episode. I know most people probably think the Desmond-centric episodes (Flashes Before Your Eyes, The Constant) are the best because of how much gets revealed, but my favorites have always been the Locke-centric episodes (Walkabout, Lockdown, etc). This character is so interwoven with the mythology of the show that we learn a great deal but also get to experience all of emotions with him.
In this brilliant episode, we start with him re-paralyzed and helpless in the middle of the desert; then we are as confused as he is when Widmore enters the picture spouting all of this information; we feel hope as Locke ventures out to convince the O6 to return and defeat each time he is turned down; we feel his pain in the powerful scene with Ben as he prepares to hang himself; and when he looks at Ben with those piercing eyes at the end, we feel his anger.
Terry O’Quinn does a masterful job with the slightest facial gestures. That scene when Kate asks him about Helen was incredible. In his face, we saw pain, betrayal, love, longing, rejection in a matter of seconds. In short, John Locke is LOST and so we are John Locke, filled with all these emotions and trying to figure out where to go, who to believe and what it all means in the grand scheme. Long live Locke.
Hi Ryan and Jen, so glad the site is back up!!!I think many of us were going through withdrawal there! Just a few quick notes now that some time has passed since the episode, we have heard a new Darleton podcast talking about this episode and we saw the “pop ups” from last weeks show.
316 popups confirmed that Ben went after Penny and then the more intriguing one was that the noises that Jack heard before he found Kate on the bed were the same ones as he heard before he saw dead Christian. Hum. What happened to Kate when she gave up Aaron?
After this episode I believed Ben is truly evil and Darleton seemed to confirm that. He clearly is willing to kill as many people as necessary to achieve his goals – whatever they may be. His performance with Terry O’Quinn was just brilliant.
Widmore on the other hand is more complex. I don’t think he is good but maybe not as evil as Ben. What is the war he is referring to? Darma and the other’s in the 70s or Widmore and the other’s in the present?
Can’t wait for more!
In response to what Nate said regarding the discrepancy between what Locke actually says to Jack, and what Jack tells Kate he said (that bad things happened after they left, that it’s Jack’s fault, that Kate and Aaron will only be safe back on the island). I find this very curious too and am not convinced that it’s a mere continuity flub.
Maybe Christian has visited Jack more times than we’ve seen, and he is the one who said those things. Obviously Jack wouldn’t want to tell Kate this because of how it would sound, so he instead tells her that it was Locke who told him.
Here’s my theory: I think Matthew Abbadon is Walt. Hear me out. When Locke approached Walt in the city, Abbadon says “I’ll give you two some privacy” and disappears. Maybe because he didn’t want himself to see his future self (Back to the Future style). When Locke returns, Abbadon says “I take it you didn’t ask him to come back.” How would he know that? He wasn’t around. Walt didn’t jump in the car with him so it could be assumed that Walt wasn’t coming, but how would Abbadon know that Locke didn’t even ask him — unless he remembers that conversation.
Also, Abbadon says he gets people where they need to be. The only way he would know where people need to be is to have some kind of foresight and Walt’s ability to see things before they happen (the exotic bird) has been evident throughout. Similar to when Walt appeared to Locke in the Pit and said, “you’ve got work to do.” And these premonitions were highlighted again this week when he said he keeps having that dream about Locke, a dream I believe will come to pass.
It would also make sense why Walt/Abbadon would side with Widmore. If he believed his dad might still be alive, Widmore probably hired him to round up the Freighter crew to help him get back to the Island. Or he might just blame Ben for the death of Michael. Either way, that gives him definite motive.
I was dissapointed with the episode after all the hype the only thing that surprised me was Abbandon’s death,most of the surpises have already been subtly given away in prev eps, like Ben not confirming Locke is dead and when Ben said he went to see Locke it was i throught he had killed him.
I thought how Locke tried to convince the 6 to go back to the island was poor it was like “come back no please come back no ok bye”.
I didnt see the point of Walt showing up nothing happened my only thought is that he will be showing up again at some point in a more significant role.
I didnt like the reveal of Ben being on the bed at the end as i had already guessed it was him as him and Sayid were the only people i could remember that are unaccounted for and it would be a bigger shock for Locke to see Ben again.
New to site. Love the episode but when did Jin ask Locke not be bring back Sun? I don’t remember that scene when he supposedly gave Locke the ring. Cannot wait to hear the Podcast.
A few things seems puzzling to me
Why would Hurley Jack & Kate flash back in time (circa 1991) on the Island ? and Sun & Saïd would not and remain in current times ? Doesnt make sense.
Same goes for Locke. I guess he should have flashed too.
Locke had a broken leg when he was killed by Ben.
One would think he would still have that wound when crashing on the Hydra island
However he seems perfectly healed.
Similarly, I thought that he would still be paralysed when exiting to 2007.
Again, when he turned the donky wheel (sometime in the early 70s, before the DI), I guessed he would wind up in Tunisia only about 10 months later.
My thinking was that John would resurrect and be ok as long as he wound up on the island prior to he getting his leg injured and being murdered by Ben.
If I saw the man who had strangled me sleeping, I guess I would take care of him i the appropriate way.
I guess Locke must feel Ben has some more hints or answers to provide.
Cant wait to see where Said and Sun are.
Other questions
If Cesar (and Ilana) are with Wnidmore, then I guess they would have reacted more to Ben’s arrival in A316
Similarly, if Eloise is on Widmore side, I guess Ben would have been taken care of.
We shall see.
@ Debbie: Jin asked Locke to not bring back Sun the moment he was about to climb down the well (which will later become the Orchid). In case Sun asked questions, Jin gave Locke his wedding ring and give it to Sun as proof that he was dead, giving her no reason to return to the Island. Locke gave Jin his word (and that’s why Locke never tried to visit Sun in the episode “Life & Death of Jeremy Bentham”).
@Bomir: Well when Locke fell out of that cliff (trying to climb up to the airplane), Alpert did say to lay off the leg and the island will do the rest. If you haven’t noticed by now, the island has miraculous healing abilities. Lock has been shot at and has broken/sprained his leg (his same leg might I add) about three times. Jack survived an appendectomy. Ben survived a major surgery (and without a lot of healing time if you recall). And Rose hasn’t shown any further signs of her cancer.
I left a post on Feb 5th after watching The Little Prince:
Did anyone notice the poster on the wall behind Dr. Evelyn Ariza as she makes her way into the room to confront Jack? You can only see part of it but it reads, “Generationsâ€.
I think we saw this mini-theme play out in this episode.
(I am just looking for a little validation.)
Here are my thoughts in response to those above.
1) Jack, Kate & Hurley are needed by the island. That is why when the plane was in the island’s “window” the flash took them to a time that they are needed by the island. We will have to wait and see if Sayid was needed as well.
2) Sun was never suppose to be on flight 815. That is why she remained with the other passengers of 316. She is the woman who took the canoe with Frank back to the main island in search of Jin. She is however in current time (2009) and Jin is back in DHARMA time (the 70’s)- that should be an interesting journey.
3) The island does not want Ben to return. That is why he remained with the passengers of 316. When the plane crashed (or was put down gently on the Hydra Island runway by Frank) he was in the restroom, and was injured.
4) John was resurrected in current time. The island needs him there, he has work to do.
5) Glad to see they have refurbished the supply of red shirts & log carrying guys. I wonder which one was shot by Juliet in the canoe chase back in the episode “The Little Prince”.
5) When John asked Ilana about the canoes it is because he remembered them from the chase in “The Little Prince”.
6) Caesar is clearly up to no good. He is looking for something in the Hydra station office- that he hasn’t quite found yet. He must be there as a Widmore employee. He must know about DHARMA. He also must know about John. These folks took the news of him being dead and now alive a little too calmly. If something said that to me, I would think they were crazy and lock them up! (But maybe they will- remember Walt said there were bad guys after him.)
7) Did Ilana & Caesar know each other before the flight? I think Caesar is from Widmore’s camp & Ilana is from Ben’s.
Thanks Jen & Ryan- love your podcasts, blogs and insights!
Aloha, Losties,
Where to begin? Maybe by the time I get to the end
First thoughts…much better episode than “316â€. This is a very subjective statement I know. Both were structured very similarly. Both fleshed out plot points that we were already expecting. But I just left with a more satisfactory taste at the end.
So, lets get started with the episode:
• I liked how quickly we were introduced to Caesar. The short scene at the beginning quickly made it clear that he will be an important character. His secrecy, his inquisitive nature, his immediate elevation to leader of the castaways from 316 all spoke volumes.
• I liked the Obi-wan Kenobi-esque reveal of Locke at the beginning. Luke Skywalker had been told that Kenobi was dead and Obi-wan was first revealed with the dramatic removal of a hood. A great moment. A bit cliché, but they didn’t dwell on it.
• Another shoe sighting in the foreground on the beach the morning after the crash.
• Still not sure if it is Linus or Widmore who is the bad guy. (More on that later). John asked Widmore why he was special, and Widmore responded, “Because you are.†I wonder if Widmore had meant to finish that sentence, but got distracted when the car arrived. If that is the case, the line would read, “Because you are…†And the line about “A war is coming, John, and if they all don’t come back, the wrong side will win†was spectacular!!! The energy of the show is building and building. You can taste the reckoning coming on the horizon.
• I loved seeing Walt again. The meeting had a real natural quality to it that left me with the sense of the fondness of visiting with old friends. But I am more certain than ever that Walt’s absence on the island will be significant. There was just too many repetitions that they all need to come back for this to be something that can be brushed off. Of course, I could be wrong and the only purpose was to foreshadow John in the coming episodes. But I am keeping an open mind.
• I LOVED Hurley’s blasé reaction when he thought Locke was dead and his panicked reaction when he realized that Locke wasn’t.
• The other emotion that I saw in Locke’s face when Kate mentioned loving someone was regret. Locke understood the regret of losing time with someone you love and that is why he didn’t press Kate anymore.
• OK…how do I say this without sounding like a sociopath. Maybe if I remind you that these are all fictional characters. Well…maybe that doesn’t make the following any better. Abaddon’s death scene was fantastic! He was such a cool character that he really deserved a spectacular death. The way his body slumped (almost slithered) off the car was visceral. And anyways…we all know that just because you are dead on LOST…doesn’t always mean that you’ll stay dead.
• Did anyone notice that John’s accident that brought him face to face with Jack was with an SUV. I’ve lost track of how many SUV significant car accidents have happened with SUVs. I love leitmotifs!
• I didn’t like the fact that the only thing that Jack needed to be told was that Christian said “hiâ€. We already knew that from the episode when John pushed the donkey wheel. So, there was no real surprise there. But I suppose it was satisfied that it was enough to get Jack serious enough to begin taking flights to try to make it back. His repeated failures getting to the island led to him realizing that for whatever reason, the whole group needed to go back.
• I loved that the way that Jon wanted to kill himself was a leap. Since he had completely given up, it was a leap without faith.
• As for the strangulation…Ben clearly came prepared to kill John. But Ben also knows that island doesn’t want John dead, which may be why he was so careful to keep the body in good condition and to get him back to the island. If Ben knows this, his actions while crude, violent and cold-hearted, they still might lead to a positive outcome. Might.
• One last thing. It sill might be the case that a trip on the Donkeywheel express is still a one-way ticket off “The Islandâ€. The fact that they are on the other island must be significant, too. It still might end up that neither Ben nor John will end up back on “The Islandâ€. Time will tell.
I hope next week is as good as this week.
Keep up the great podcast!!!
Oh, and hats off to “Russellâ€. The connection between Abaddon and Walt is intriguing. I would love for that to pan out.
Damn, but Locke is a frustrating character. Forever running out of gas just as he’s starting to get moving.
I’m becoming convinced that the whole idea of Locke being a leader is pure crap, whether it’s Ben or Widmore saying it. Lock unfortunately hit it on the nose in this episode: he can’t motivate anybody to do anything. He doesn’t even know his own mind. Over the course of this episode he started out doing what Richard and Christian had told him to do, then he worked for Widmore, then he lost faith entirely, then he became a believer in Ben again, only to get screwed yet again.
Since the end of season one, the only real talent Locke has displayed is the ability to be talked into anything by anyone. Throughout season one he had his own agenda, but that’s because he thought the island was talking to him, and Ben talked him down from that easily enough.
Locke has shown himself time and again to be exactly what Jack said he was: a sad little man easily manipulated with grandiose fantasies about himself.
Yaaay! The site is back!
Hey Jen & Ryan! I have loved TV since I was a kid, but I can not remember a TV show that made me so excited for the next installment at this level! And I know I am not alone!
I tend to agree with the few posters above who believe that Ben is not as bad as we are made to think he is. I would LOVE to think that, in the end, he had reasons for every dastardly move he made. Man, Mr. Emerson, my hat is off to you! What a performance…every week!
Enough gushing for now…and I’ll surely have a theory to post later, but thats it for now. NYC says HI!
@Alex: “I loved that the way that Jon wanted to kill himself was a leap. Since he had completely given up, it was a leap without faith.” That’s a brilliant thought!
@ Kevie: But isn’t Locke all of us, looking outside of ourselves for direction whether it’s from our parents, our pastors, our teachers etc. Aren’t we all struggling to find our own paths and looking for a guide just like Locke only to be disappointed when those we look up to let us down?
Besides Nadia in the hospital, i think i saw Charlotte sitting on a bench behind hurley while look was talking to him.
I don’t know anyone has mentioned this yet, but in the last episode, “316,” the song playing in the Dharma van wasn’t a Geronimo Jackson song. It was “Excelsior Lady” by The Donkeys. Now I’m assuming when that scene took place they were in the past, but the song they used was released in 2008. i wonder if that means anything? I don’t know, just something to think about. Love the podcast and keep up the great work!
I think Locke knew killing himself would make him unworthy to be leader of the Island. Wouldn’t it be interesting if Locke tricked Ben into killing him? I’d like to see Locke playing Ben and Widmore against each other, that’s what a real leader would do 🙂
Or perhaps Ben knew Locke wouldn’t come back if he broke his neck (or would be paralized if he did) and talked him down so he could strangle him to death instead. Yes, he was doing him a favor. Ben is a good guy after all 😉
One thing bugging me, in past episode the O6 all made comments about “Jeremy Bentham” coming to see them. It sounded like they had deep, long conversations.
Most of what we saw was:
Locke: “Come back to the Island.”
O6 Person: “No, go away.”
I thought there would be more to the conversations than that. Also, he never mentioned his name was Jeremy Bentham to Walt, Jack, Hurley or Kate. Why were they using the name when they talked with each other? They even seemed scared to use his real name. Not sure why. Even if someone is listening to them, John is a pretty common name.
We didn’t see his whole conversation with Kate, so I supposed he could have said something to her about his cover name. Jack could have gotten off the admission chart, but why would he assume that’s the name Kate would recognize, why say “Jeremy Bentham” came to see me, and not “John came to see me?”
Once again Hurley’s in the dark, because he asks, “why are you calling him Jeremy Bentham?” Yeah, I want to know too. Maybe there is a second conversation we haven’t seen yet? Or more of the conversations we did see in another episode?
@tvscifi: good point. i think this device was more just to conceal the the fact that Locke had gotten off the island and was the man in the coffin. Remember, this goes back to season 3 and if they would’ve been saying “John came to see me” to each other, it would’ve spoiled Season 4’s ending.
@ Bomar: Sun and Sayid were not surpose to be on 815. Sun was going to leave Jin at the airport. Sayid was going to fly out on the day before the 815 flight, but stayed behind a day to make burial arrangment for his friend who killed himself. If they did not time jump this maybe the reason why.
I found it quite ironic that when Sawyer killed Cooper [Locke’s dad] he strangled him and when Locke himself died he was strangled by Ben. Like Alpert said “what goes around, comes around.”
I never trusted Ben and never will, and I don’t think that Widmore is a bad as everyone seems to think.