Next: “Live Together, Die Alone” (Episode 2×23)

After discovering something odd just offshore, Jack and Sayid come up with a plan to confront “The Others” and hopefully get Walt back. Meanwhile, Eko and Locke come to blows as Locke makes a potentially cataclysmic decision regarding the “button” and the hatch. Comment here, via e-mail to lost@hawaiiup.com, or by calling the LostLine at (808) 356-0127, by Saturday, Jan. 10.

19 Responses to “Next: “Live Together, Die Alone” (Episode 2×23)”

  1. cat says:

    Loved “Live Together Die Alone” and not only because it was a Desmond episode. It answered key questions – the most important one being whether the numbers had to be typed in or not; “Henry’s” role as a leader of the others; the date of the plane crash; Penny continuing to look for Desmond and the Pearl notebook’s fate. It nicely set up Season 3 and raised a lot more questions! What is the deal with the 4 toed statue, what is that big “Hurley” bird, was the first hatch incident the one the guys in the South pole referred to etc.

    I have to wonder, since Santa Rosa seems so integral to this plot, whether the ongoing connection between Widmore, Libby, and Hurley is important. I can’t help but think that there is a connection between Libby’s dead husband “Dave” and the Hurley’s imaginary friend “Dave” – are they the same person? Also, did Widmore pay off Libby to find Desmond and give him the boat? Someone/thing is causing all the pieces to come together so that Desmond was on the island at the right time and although he caused the plane crash, it appears to be predestined that he do that.

    We now know that there are some very ancient parts of the island – the statue, the hieroglyphics in Ben’s house and at the orchid – did the island once disappear to an ancient time?

    There are some lapses – Why would Sawyer and Hurley continue to go with Michael after they found out what he had done. If there is pent up electromagnetic force that has to be discharged, why isn’t this an ongoing issue but the introduction of Penny and Charles Widmore more than makes up for everything else!!!

  2. so what on earth is charlie’s role in this episode? i cannot figure it out! usually he’s a fairly stable character, sort of simple-minded yet sweet (or annoying) and helpful, but in this episode, he tries to be all devious and scheming! first he finds locke crying and insidiously tells him about desmond being back, then switches over to eko’s side and maliciously tells him about the rest of the dynamite that is hidden, then doesn’t want eko to use it, then won’t say a word to claire about what happened. why would he play it off like that? i don’t understand charlie in this episode and why he comes across as scheming little gnome. i can almost see him dancing with wicked glee and tapping his fingertips together at some points in the episode.

    one interesting thing i noticed was a parallel between jack’s vision when he was shot with the tranquilizer (trying to run from the others) and desmond’s vision when being dragged from the shore to the swan station. the shakiness and double vision seemed identical, although desmond was supposedly just washed up on the shore. but maybe desmond was shot with a tranquilizer and never knew it? (also, when des followed kelvin to the boat, he sure seemed to know his way back to the hatch really well for someone who’d never been outside before! and wouldn’t he question where all their clean air inside the hatch was coming from if the whole island was contaminated? wouldn’t he wonder where their oxygen tanks came from, and why they hadn’t changed any air filters in two years?? maybe he should have known sooner than seeing the rip in kelvin’s pants that the air was safe to breathe.)

    one more thing, which you can remove if you find inappropriate, but did anyone else notice that when they were out on the wooden dock, after michael got the boat and left, when alex went to help kate stand up because they were ready to move out, alex totally grabbed kate’s chest before quickly moving her hands to grab kate’s armpits instead? for some reason i caught that this time as i watched it, saw them keep straight faces, and thought…what was that for?! it looked like it was done on purpose…

  3. Rizzo says:

    I think Cat makes some good points. I’m fairly certain that the “chance” meeting between Libby and Desmond was far from accidental. I also have to think that Kelvin’s protection suit got that tear in it not so accidentally. Just in time to lure Desmond outside while Flight 815 was approaching. Is/was Kelvin really a Dharma member? I think not. It seems more likely that he has been working for Widmore all along. He had already played a key role in developing Sayid’s “abilities”.

    Overall a decent finale for a shaky season compared to the rest. Its so interesting watching Ben during this part of the series after knowing all that we now know about him (which ain’t much admittedly). Good fun.

    Love, love, love the show! Aloha!

  4. Lisa is Lost says:

    I think this was my least favoirte finale. Rewatching all of Lost on the SciFi Channel has been fun (now into season 4), reminds me of how long we’ve been waiting for answers (we are a patitent bunch and so trusting that the pay off will be worth it).
    The best part of the finale was that it made Desmond a regular. Will we ever know why he’s considered by Widmore to be a coward? Will we ever find out why he was put into military prision?

    I hadn’t thought about how scattered Charlie was until it was all listed out by Anna. I do think he had a reason to pay back Locke, though. Eko was my least favorite character. I found him boring, not intriguing. Most people dumped on Ana Lucia, but I’d choose Eko.

    Thank you both for your dedication to the Podcast. I’ve been a loyal listener for a long time and am looking forward to Season 5. Would love to hear your thoughts on the bonus tracks on the DVDs. Did you have the order of the flashbacks right? And I’ve been struck recently by how much night work they seem to do. Is this really the case, or is it the magic of television lighting?

  5. Scott H. from Binghamton, NY says:

    Hello Ryan and Jen,

    First time commenting on an episode, loving the podcasts during break. This episode was the highlight of an up and down season (the first 3-4 episodes of the season, Lockdown, and this being those highlights). There’s just a couple things that bug me I want to throw out there for you guys to discuss.

    1. We’ve been, up to this point, meant to believe that Oceanic 815 crashed for a specific reason with these specific people. Our core losties have intrinsic connections to a lot of supernatural and mythological events on the island, yet the reason behind the plane crashing puts all this into question. I mean to say that just one random day Desmond happened to follow Kelvin, get in an argument, and not make it back in time before a system failure, essentially pulling/attracting the plane to the island casts doubt as to the reason they’re there. If they’re there for a reason, why then was it shown to be purely circumstantial that the crash happened? I can’t reconcile this idea that they were supposed to be there and have to be on that island, those specific people, yet it seems they got there out of chance or happenstance. That if Des had made it back, or not followed Kelvin that they would’ve landed in Fiji after all. This always bugged me.

    2. Do you think that the vials of vaccine Desmond was taking inside the Swan, as well as Kelvin, were some sort of preventative measures from the “sickness” and the sickness being that of mental time vacillation? Meaning, the DI wanted to make sure that being around this electromagnetic station wouldn’t cause their minds to get lost in time? Or was it to keep them scared, testing their reliability and faith?

    I’d like to hear your thoughts, hopefully read on the podcast.

    Thanks,
    Scott

  6. bluedog1121 says:

    A few quick thoughts…

    I’ve been wondering why Inman put so much work into Radzinsky’s “invisible map.” What’s the purpose of that map? Especially when conditions have to be just so for anyone to actually read it?

    Did it really take Inman three years (nearly) to fix the Elizabeth?

    Like Lisa above, I’ve been wondering why Desmond was in prison. I’m wondering if there was something Widmore could have done to orchestrate Desmond’s actions or sentencing in some way. Widmore’s actions toward Desmond are similar to Ben’s actions toward Karl. Did Widmore “place” Desmond in prison like Ben placed Karl in Room 23?

    It really bugs me that Desmond doesn’t tell Penny that Widmore intercepted all of his letters to her.

    I agree with the previous posters about Charlie, too. His attitude when Claire asks him where John and Eko are is almost malicious. It seems really out of character for him. I would think he’d be a little bit concerned about the welfare of both, and he must have figured out that Desmond was in the hatch, too.

    Oh, and I really hate it when Sawyer gets shot with the dart, and Jack and Kate run away. I get it that they want to get to safety, but Jack made sure to grab Kate when she was shot. Someone should have at least tried to help Sawyer!

    I love Ben when he sees Jack on the pier and just says “Hello again.”

    And I love, love Terry O’Quinn’s acting when he tells Eko, “I was wrong.” He’s so amazing.

    Thanks for everything you two do! Two more weeks!

  7. Metasteve says:

    One of my favorite finales. A lot of stuff revealed here and a lot to make you think, discuss, blog, etc. over the break…

    When Des turns the key and the sound and color happen on the island, I immediately thought of when the island moved, end of Season 4. Very interesting how they made those events similar, but just different enough to make you think. If you remove the whoosh at the end of when the island moved (we heard this from the helicopter), the sound and light would be about the same.

    Anyway, maybe at the end of season 2, the island moved.

    Thanks… as usual, you guys are awesome!!!

  8. MJ from Midwest says:

    “I don’t know what is more disquieting. The fact that the rest of the statue is missing or that it has four toes?” Does Kate carry binoculars to funerals? Then we get another 60’s style use of binocular vision with Jin on the boat at the statue. Where is the rest of the statue? and what’s up with the sub plot of missing limbs?

    “Why are there missing parts?” Desmond discovers Dharma orientation film that’s been spliced and re-edited. We also know that one such film strip was found by Eko in the bible. Do you think that Radzinsky might have been responsible for this? Why? I am inclined to believe that Daniel Farady might be using these edits as a way to communicate from the ‘past’.

    “But if you did have time . . . you still would have killed her right?” And while it is still painful to see Hurley so sad, I think that these lines are meant to convince us that you can’t change the future, even if you could go back in time. However, I am not convinced and am still holding out that in order to set the island straight, someone will have change a past decision.

    “It would take an atom bomb to blow it up brother.” Hope I quoted Desmond correct here. As he is saying this, he has a very strange look on his face, like he is remembering that very thing. We then have the best flashback, where we see the hatch doors manipulated (“You’ve see me do it 100 times”), the hatch map being painted, the Radzinsky stain, the implication of Desmond’s inability to follow and order which lands him in jail, and Desmond following Inman outside to discover that he’s been lied to about the quarantine and his boat. He kills Inman in a rage and then we see that pushing the button is, in fact, very necessary.

    “You just killed us. You’ve killed us all.” “No, I just saved us all.” I could watch the Swan Hatch imploding over and over and over. It’s just the greatest thing. Great set/music/sound/editing. Especially, the ‘new’ washer/dryer heading off Charlie and the count down numbers crunched. We spent a lot of time in season 2 worrying about those numbers and glyphs and BOOM . . .all gone. The back and forth of Locke and Desmond wondering who was saving who and who needed saving. Great stuff. Locke and Desmond did in fact ‘save them all’ as the electromagnetic pulse was picked up by the artic station. I can’t help but think that those two poor guys in the arctic station were very much like Inman and Desmond in that they too were stuck in a ‘hatch’ for years waiting.

    Charlie’s behavior at the end is certainly pointing us in the direction of memory loss as a side effect of the electromagnetic anomaly. So, while this looks strange in season 2, reviewing it this week gives Charlie’s ‘nothing happened’ comment new meaning.

    We made it! (OK, you made it!) to the very end of our hiatus podwish. I have really enjoyed reading everyone’s comments especially since we have some perspective on this season. Ryan and Jen, you are the #1 podcast out there, hands down.

    I have made a new year’s resolution to go spoiler free until 1/22. Spoilers on the web are at code red. I did book a seat on Ajira Airways to Guam with 10 of my close friends. Are you on board? From Guam I fly to destinations unknown.

    Namaste and good luck.

  9. Meg says:

    Hi Ryan and Jen- I just watched the finale on the flight home from Hawaii to NYC! I was struck by the how central Desmond is to the end of the season. When I first saw this I couldn’t figure out how all the pieces are connected but now looking back I see how important the love story is to the plot. Having just recently watch “the constant” I wonder if there are connections between desmond’s prison time and his time travel?

  10. Holder from Atlanta says:

    I’m with Meg. My kneejerk after rewatching LT,DA was that Desmond was being all time travelly and ended up imprisoned because of it, and I’m wandering if that’s what the writers intended. Something else I was thinking about…since we are to assume the island has been moved before, doesn’t it just make too much sense that the island probably popped up under the Black Rock back in the day?

  11. Tom from NJ says:

    I really loved this episode. It might not be the best season finale but it was up there… Getting background on Desmond and the hatch was amazing, it raised many new questions, all that, and you had Clancy Brown!

    Clancy Brown was great in this episode and delivered one of my favorite lines ever, right after Desmond mentions leaving her Majesty’s Royal Guard, he asks (I’m paraphrasing), “why DID you leave that nice old lady’s army?”

    Anyway, it ended with a pretty amazing cliffhanger, in fact it was so good it took the writers the first half of season 3 to write their way out of it! But taken on it’s own the end of that the episode is exciting, teasing us with an inside look at the others and building the Dharma Initiative mystique up more.

  12. Bonita (from Atlanta( says:

    Hi Guys,
    Had trouble with ABC’s player and couldn’t fully watch this epi with all of you but the comments above got me thinking: Can this be a kind of Cold War nod? All of us waiting around for some big signal to take the ultimate action? The effects certainly made me think of Hiroshima. The signal watchers here being the guys in the arctic station (they seemed to envoke a USSR feel). This becomes a cautionary tale then about following protocol and when is it okay to disregard protocol? Can it become obsolete?
    Thanks so much for these podcasts! You’ve really helped enrich my experience of Lost and I am looking forward now to the new season.

  13. Ilias says:

    Hi guys,

    All season endings have been great. This was the first Desmond flashback establishing him as a major character, and a likeable at that. I never understood why he was a labeled a coward but I nevertheless see some parallels between the way Ben “handled” Karl and how desmond is being treated by Widmore. Is it coincindental that both heavyweights have trouble with their “son-in-laws”? It remains to be seen how it will play out especially after that great scene bwtn them two in that dark bedroom in London.

    The other parallel I see, as some have mentioned above, is the fact that the island turned purple or bright or whatever it really was at the end of season 4 when Ben turns the frozen donkey wheel and the end of season 2 when Locke and Des do not put the numbers in. Did the island move? Did Ben realize what was happening at the end of S2, it did not look like it worried it him much.

    I mentioned the vaccines in previous posts but here again we have vaccines that do not really seem to doing much! The four-toes statue is a mystery that I would like to see resolved. A friend of mine who does not follow the show as closely keeps (but has to listen to your podcasts when we are in my car) telling me that this show will be the biggest dissapointment because there is no way that they will able to explain everything. Sometime I fear that he maybe true (and I will have to listen to his bragging). So I really hope that the writers and producers of the show will finally start answering some questions and prove to be every bit as smart as they seem to be.

    Many questions to Desmond and his story arc have not been answered yet and I would not be surprised if there is a twist in his story sometime down the road.

    I did not realize that this was one 2-hour episode in the US. Here in Germany, incl. the DVD release it was handled as two episodes, hence my suggestion in my previous post.

    The ending was a big cliffhanger, on par to S1. We probably got used to them in S3 and S4 for them to have the same impact. I remember thinking that “OMG” they will be saved, of course the next episode “A Tale of two Cities” and the entire S3 proved me wrong once again.

    Cannot wait for the show to start and I cannot believe how fast time has gone by since last May! Also, good news for people with BD players, they will release S1 and S2 in high-def. Hopefully that will also be the case on this side of the pond as I would be dumb enough to buy them again to watch them on HD, after all your island is so much more gorgeous on HD 😀

    Thanks for keeping us company and keep it up.

    Ilias

  14. NuckinFuts says:

    Hey guys – – I want to thank you as well for a great job w/ your podcasts and in hindsight I guess it was a lot easier for me than reading a book or two!

    READERS: FILE THIS POST UNDER THEORIES…OR COMMENTS…DEFINITELY NOT A SPOILER…JUST A GUESS OR QUESTION…BUT SOME PEOPLE GET FUNNY ABOUT THIS KIND OF STUFF…IF SOME DON’T LIKE THIS STUFF DON’T READ

    I want to ask you two your thoughts about Desmond & Charles Widmore as it relates to what we know now and during this period of time.

    I have been wondering since “The Constant” why Charles Widmore so quickly gave Penny’s whereabouts and full address to Desmond? Epecially since he knew they had broken up & she changed her phone number & address so Desmond couldn’t contact her. From what we know he didn’t like or approve of Desmond. We also know that sometime right after this Desmond ends up in the prison and Charles keeps the letters that Desmond sent her, which was a mean thing to do at the time…unless….

    1. SIMPLE POSSIBLE ANSWER: I guess Penny could have asked her dad not to ever give any info to Desmond again…but it didn’t seem that way…especially when he would have known eventually she was looking for Desmond.

    2. BRAIN TEASER POSSIBLE ANSWER: Perhaps he knew somehow when he saw Desmond show up that night at the “Black Rock” auction that Desmond’s conscious was “Time Traveling” at that exact moment ( maybe he saw him pass out for a few minutes at some point or something ) and that could only mean that Desmond had found the island that Charles has been spending his time trying to find….so he knew that he had to keep Desmond and Penny from getting together any time before Desmond would fulfill this destiny ( Much like the lady with the wedding ring did to Des ) to take the trip around the world on the Widmore Race. Maybe that’s why he started the annual race in fact; thinking that Desmond couldn’t resist the chance to ‘prove’ himself to Penny and Charles. Perhaps then Charles actually likes Desmond but is also interested in his help to find the island.
    TRANSCRIPT EXCERPT:

    WIDMORE: Actually, two presents. One of these boxes contains your past, Hume. The other, your future. Go ahead, open it.
    [Desmond opens a box and finds it filled with letters which are unopened and addressed to Penelope Widmore, sent by Desmond.]
    DESMOND: You’re a bastard, you know that?
    WIDMORE: The fact that she never received your sentiments is good for her. Good, because as far as she’s concerned you’ve forsaken her. And that’s the way it’s going to stay.
    DESMOND: Is it now?
    WIDMORE: Penelope’s moved on, Hume. She’s getting married. [He opens the other box which is filled with money.] This is for your new life—away from my daughter. The conditions are simple—no contact, no calls, no posts. You just run away, Desmond.
    DESMOND: And what makes you think I would just run away?
    WIDMORE: Because you’re a coward.

    Other random thoughts about this :

    1. We find out later that Desmond didn’t take the money…so Libby MUST be a plant…or is a likely plant….so that Desmond has some means of getting the boat.

    2. Based on “The Constant” timeline Desmond would have had her address to write her directly and Charles could not intercept them unless he had some way of controlling letters from the military prison?

    2. OR Does it mean that once Desmond’s time traveling during the Constant was “over” in his past…that his past memory of that event disappeared…if not immediately then very soon after he walks away from Penny’s flat?

    3. DOES PENNY’S MEMORY DISAPPEAR TOO?

    Transcript Excerpt from Live Together, Die Alone ( Which happened well after the phone number exchange in “The Constant” :

    [FLASHBACK] ( edited some )
    [We see Desmond at the stadium getting ready to run. A car pulls up and Jack gets out and heads to the steps. Another car pulls up and a woman gets out.]
    DESMOND: I’ll be back in a year.
    PENELOPE: What if you were back, right now?
    DESMOND: I’m going to win this race, Pen—his race. And in a year, I’ll be back.
    PENELOPE: Desmond, what are you running from?
    DESMOND: I have to get my honor back, and that’s what I’m running to.

    @ bluedog1121 : “It really bugs me that Desmond doesn’t tell Penny that Widmore intercepted all of his letters to her”

    It has always bothered me too…and now it also bothers me that there is not a mention of Christmas Eve phone call…which is several years away now…hmmmm….

    @ a few people above:

    I think this supports that there are memory’s being lost with some of these characters…like the Charlie comments above after the hatch implodes…I can see Charlie / Desmond / and many other people’s memories being affected…but Penny’s doesn’t make since to me…yet…

    @ Ilias : “A friend of mine……as they seem to be.”

    Agreed – – I love this show and am keeping faith that they will be able to solve hopefully all this stuff – – perhaps w/ a few last minute questions “Beyond” LOST that would allow us to speculate for years…

    I guess a way out of some of this is the room or stations ( perhaps on and off island ) where Karl was being brainwashed like “A Clockwork Orange”…so that they can erase things they don’t want people to remember maybe…which could solve this Penny problem?

    Would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on some of this!

    Brian – Atlanta

  15. amy says:

    Hey, i am trying desperately, to find out a somewhat filming schedule for this seasons LOST. i am taking a trip to Hawaii this sunday and want to venture around of hopes of finding sets while filming. any one have any ideas if they are filming now? any help would be GREAT!!!! thanks, Amy

  16. Ryan says:

    Amy, I’ve sent you an e-mail!

  17. Jay up in Canada says:

    Hey everyone, just a quick reminder to anyone in the Detroit area that Jorge Garcia will be on 94.7 WCSX next week.

  18. Mindy says:

    Hi I’m not exactly sure where to post this but I am catching up on Season 4 before next week and I have a theory!

    I’m sure you’ve seen Jack with Ben on the ABC sneak peek and he says (referring to bringing Kate back to the island) “I don’t see that happening” and Ben says something like “I’ve got a few ideas.” WELL… I just watched Something Nice Back Home and I believe that that particular flash forward happened BEFORE Jack “changed his mind” and went back to Kate and Aaron. She mentions that like it was a sudden thing. I think Ben’s idea was basically for Jack to con Kate – pretend to be a good daddy figure, etc. in order to get her to come back to the island. I noticed that’s the episode where he starts drinking and basically downward spiraling and I think it’s because he’s struggling to keep up that lie. Also that’s when he starts seeing his father. Originally I thought that was why he was drinking, but now I believe it’s because of his ploy to get Kate to the island is stressing him out. As much as I would love to think that he just loves Kate and Aaron… I’m not so sure anymore! I’d love to hear what you think. :o) LOVE YOUR PODCAST and look forward to each one. ONLY 5 days till the PREMIERE!!

  19. bluedog1121 says:

    I agree with Mindy that Ben has something to do with Kate ultimately joining the effort to get back to the island, but I have a different theory, also based on the sneak peaks. So SPOILER ALERT here! 😉 Remembering the S4 finale, when Ben says, “I’ve got a few ideas,” then thinking about the sneak peek with Kate and Aaron, I believe Ben hired those Agostini & Norton “lawyers” to make Kate believe someone was on to her “con.” Ben knows Kate will run away if her relationship with Aaron is threatened. If he can make her break her parole, and maybe even get separated from Aaron somehow, she is much more likely to join the rest of the O6. I also like the Ben/Jack sneak peak where Jack says, “I don’t see that happening.” When Jack says that, Ben gives him a little look like, “Right, Jack, whatever.” Anyway, those are my thoughts. 4 days to go!!

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