The Other Woman

“The Other Woman” gave us an island flashback, and a little more insight into the pre-crash world of the Others. Charles Widmore is officially tied to the freighter, Ben’s creepiness leaps into another dimension, and Hurley is feeling lucky. But we still don’t know who Ben’s man on the boat is, and considering how much the writers are clearly trying to milk that particular mystery, I’m beginning to think we’ll be downright mad if it is Michael. We will allow that “The Constant” was a tough act to follow, but as huge fans of Elizabeth Mitchell, it’s a pity “her” episode reduces her to fretting and catfighting. And for all the jumping around we did, it didn’t feel like we got very far. [Tell us what you thought! Comment or call (808) 356-0127.]

Revealing that Juliet’s romance with Goodwin was an affair? Pretty awesome. Watching Ben go from awkward lovestruck schoolboy to psycho stalker? Even better. And whatever the circumstance, it was great seeing Goodwin and Tom again. We also appreciated the mention of Zach and Emma, and Harper’s comparing Juliet to Ben’s “her” seems to hint at Annie. But the introduction of Harper out of the blue as a major player in the Days of Othersville soap opera seemed a bit forced. And while we love Claire, her token scene was painfully out of place.

The Charles Widmore link is an important one, no doubt. He’s definitely after Ben, who says he wants to protect the island from turning into Gainesville, Florida’s mold museum. (“Go Gators!” says Jen, an escaped Floridian.) Yet Ben seemed perfectly willing to gas everyone to stop Widmore… if we believe what Daniel and Charlotte said.

The major forces at play are still unclear, as is the true value of the island. Juliet says a war is brewing between the freighties and Ben, and that Ben will win. We still don’t know whether Ben is good or bad, but I think Juliet’s right.

“The Other Woman” also made for a tough night for Jaters. First Kate goes running off to snoggle with Sawyer, and now Jack’s giving Juliet a sad surgeon kiss. Though it was pure shipper chow, I enjoyed the scene between Jack and Kate, when Kate said she went to Othersville to find something out. “Are you going to tell me, or are we going to keep walking as if it doesn’t matter,” Jack says, figuring she went to decide between him and Sawyer. Sorry, bub. Kate’s just looking out for number one.

Jen’s particularly annoyed that Kate is continuing racking up bonehead points, tonight again demonstrating poor judgement and looking more and more like a convenient tool for the writers to skip over a few sticky spots of common sense.

Perhaps my favorite moment, however fleeting, was the replay of the plane crash scene, the one that opened Season 3. Insert Harper in the background, and add a couple of meaningful looks, and the writers cleverly recast the significance of Goodwin’s assignment at the tail section.

Notes and Notions:

  • Jen liked Jack’s scene with Jin, where Jack gets mad that nobody reported on Daniel and Charlotte escaping. “You said they were friends,” Jin says. He should have said, “I’m sorry, did we fail to read your friggin mind?”
  • Charlotte seems to have genuine affection for Daniel, though more protective and maternal than romantic. She didn’t come off as particularly likable this week, but she’s someone I expect we’ll come to appreciate over time. If she has time.
  • It was interesting to see Ben stoking the seeds of jealousy in Juliet in mentioning Goodwin’s interest in Ana Lucia. But at Goodwin’s body, Ben does not finger Ana Lucia as his killer. It seemed almost inevitable, considering Juliet ends up pivotal in Michael’s murderous return to the hatch in Season 2.
  • Harper Stanhope’s name, Jen suspects, is a reference to Harper Lee, author of “To Kill a Mockingbird.” Specifically because the story involves first impressions and misunderstood characters.
  • “The Tempest” is obviously a reference to “The Tempest.” It’s about an island, a sorcerer, shipwreck survivors who are split up and manipulated…
  • Favorite Lines: Tom telling Juliet, “She’ll have you weeping about your father.” Juliet telling Jack, “It’s very stressful being an Other.” Ben inquiring about Locke’s rabbit, “It didn’t have a number on it, did it?”
  • Where did Danielle and Alex go? (Probably the same place Rose and Bernard went.)
  • Locations: The Tempest, or at least the exterior, is a bunker on the grounds of Kualoa Ranch. (Thanks, John!) I’m going to guess the interior was the old Foremost milk factory on Dillingham Blvd., where I spotted them filming right around the same time.
  • Music: Anyone know what opera Ben was playing for Juliet? Jen’s a bit of an opera fan.
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59 Responses to The Other Woman

  1. Bryan says:

    Another great season 4 episode. Certainly not a blockbuster like The Constant, but with more reveals. Widmore is the one looking for the island like everyone suspected but now we have proof.

    And, not only is Ben devious, but he is also a little nuts as well.

  2. Greg says:

    Yeah, I always wondered it Ben was a little nuts, or just excentric. Well, now I believe it’s both. Who can blame him though, with his history. So, was the therapist an aparation in the jungle, or was she really there? And how did Ben communicate with her to send that message to Juliet? Lastly, does Widmore really want to just exploit the island, or are there other reasons he is looking for it? I lean toward the latter. Pretty great epsiode, if just for the continual advancing of the story. Koodos!

  3. Mark says:

    Not the best episode of the season but it does provide more of the backstory of Juliette and Ben (and the rest of the Others), as well as more proof of how devious Ben can be (and has been) in dealing with everyone (and that really does mean everyone),

  4. debbie says:

    Does anyone else think the presence of Jack and Kate, either individually or together on screen, brings the drama to a complete halt? I am so over them. And Locke continues to be the biggest rube on the show. Can’t trust Ben, John. Not ever,ever,ever!

  5. LostMan says:

    Hi Ryan and Jen,

    Thank you for providing very informative and enthusiatic commentaries on the LOST shows! And especially for hosting a great forum community. Your efforts really make following the shows and the series way more enjoyable!

    All the best, and hope you enjoy tonights show!


  6. John Fischer says:

    This episode kinda reminded me of the Peggy Lee song “Is That All There Is?” I was disappointed.

    We did learn, or at least verify some suspicions:

    1) Widmore is behind the freighter and its crew.

    2) Ben has a thing for Juliet.

    3) Locke tends to make poor decisions.

    4) Ben likes to use gas.

    5) That Lost every so often needs an episode that’s a letdown from the previous episode.


    The new hatch is located on the Kualoa Ranch. It’s an old WWII bunker that you stop at on their Movie Tour and ride past on their horseback tour. On the tour you actually get to go inside where they have lots of old memorabilia from movies filmed on the ranch.

  7. Bigebee says:

    Ha! How would you like to be the episode that had to follow “the Constant” from last week? I thought tonight’s episode was pretty good. My feeling is that most people may not give it its full props since it came after arguably the best episode of the series.

    One thing I do want to touch on though, and that is Claire’s character. I think she’s one of a few favorites of Ryan and Jen (I could be mistaken) , but for me, she’s always been one of the most annoying, and somewhat useless characters. Maybe I should blame the writers but when she gets screen time, its seems she’s there ONLY cause we haven’t seen her in a while. It reminds me of when we knew Shannon would have to be killed off because the writers really had no more use for her in the grand scheme of things. But being Lost, Claire could come back in the end here and be the key to the whole story. Who knows. Tonights episode was case in point when out of nowhere she approaches Locke to ask about questioning Miles. I mean really. Claire, just go back to where you were and take a seat please. I just didn’t buy it.

    A new side to Ben was unveiled tonight also. Puppy love Ben is pretty funny.

  8. Hello Losties!

    Question: is Juliet there to replace Annie (Ben’s childhood girlfriend)? The one person who remembered Ben’s birthday.

    I wonder what happened to Annie…was she part of the Purge?

    Harper Stanhope said something like “…no wonder [Ben] likes you…you look just like her…”

    Who is “her”?

    Was Ben is willing to gas the whole Island so Juliet won’t leave him or is Harper wanting to gas the whole Island so she can exact her revenge on Juliet?

    Interesting episode!

  9. John says:

    Another awesome episode…

    There was a pretty huge reveal here that I think we all missed. The writers put it out there for all of us to “hear” very clearly.


    Right before Harper appeared to Juliet, we heard the mysterious whispers. Then, right as they stopped…WHAMMO…there was Harper. Then, she suddenly disappeared and we again…heard WHISPERS…as she just vanished.

    My Theory of the whispers:
    The whispers are audible representations of thoughts emulating from the person that is seemingly teleporting to a location. In the past, hearing the whispers has always meant that the Others were around…but they always suddenly appeared. They came out of nowhere, like they wished to be somewhere and there they were. This makes perfect sense when you think about what Harper said about “Ben is exactly where he wants to be”. Why? Because Ben can be wherever he wants to be…and talk to whoever he wants to talk to…just like he instructed harper to teleport to Juliet and warn her. The voices have to be brain noise or thoughts that become audible as the teleporting Others break through the time barrier or physical barrier of some kind…


  10. Scott in Illinois says:

    Not the best episode but I will still take LOST at its worst over everything else on television.

    Two quick things that I noticed. (1) Apparently if you spend enough time on the island you become an expert tracker. Jack tells everyone to find Daniel and Charlotte’s trail and call him when they find it. Jeez I have a hard enough time figuring out which footprints are mine in the snow, nonetheless finding them in a maze of a jungle.

    (2) Not only is Daniel super smart (and a great character) but he can type like a mad-man even when he is wearing ginormous black hazmat gloves and has the imminent threat of death looming over him accompanied by the classic James Bond countdown voice. “10 seconds until the death gas is released. 9 seconds until the death gas is released.”

    It’s got to be Michael on the boat right? Right?

  11. Z says:

    Was Ben right? Are ‘they’ the good guys?

    You have to wonder what Ben is hiding, is he is a good guy or a bad guy? I remember reading Daniel Day-Lewis’ method of acting as Daniel Plainview in “There Will be Blood” as a man who thought he was doing good for his family but ends up doing horribly wrong. And I come to wonder, is Ben doing the same?

    Accounting for all the things that have occurred on the island, is Ben truly evil or does he have cause for his actions which will validate his character in the end? I know that Lostpedia will have plenty on this topic, but I was wondering if we can have a Transmission critical discussion on the man known as Ben Limas? I think it will be a lot of fun, thanks!

    PS: Love the show, and thank you sooo much for returning. I was going mad without your insightful podcast. This show is literary paradise, and I hold the two of you as qualified professors.

  12. Mary says:

    I agree that it’s a tough sell to follow last week’s episode, but adding more depth to existing characters is a good sell for me this week!

    Pithy observation: Juliet looks MUCH better without makeup (ala Kate) than she does with. MUCH!

    If indeed Michael is the “mole” on the freighter, then ABC has REALLY overdone the “you aren’t going to believe this” overtones in the preview. btw, I agree with Jen that it IS Michael on the boat and in the coffin.

    Scott, not only does Daniel type well in the hazmat suit and goggles, but those gloves MUST have put him up over 80 wpm.

    Once again, Ben has proven to be creepy, crazy and crafty all in a moment on screen. Love obsession, manipulation through Goodwin’s wife’s “image”, getting a ‘get out of jail FREE’ pass, and closing up the Widmore question in 42 minutes showed us the actor’s amazing breadth. Locke does NOT know who he’s dealing with, and he just struck a deal with the devil. As much as the Hurley/Sawyer (YEAH for Sawyer screentime!!) scene was overplayed, I think I’d have the same jawdropping reaction if I saw Mr. Linus parading around with a smirk and clean shirts. I did like the foreshadowing of Jack/Juliet with Ben’s “flinch” when he asked Juliet why she was reviewing Sheperd’s file.

    Besides the safe combination, I missed any other references to the numbers…were there any?

    Hope that next week’s episode kickstarts things again, and THANK YOU Ryan and Jen for bringing back the BEST LOST Podcast!!!

  13. don livingston says:

    Loved tonights episode primarily because I am a big Juliet fan. I loved her flashback that portrayed Ben as socially challenged and extremely devious at the same time. I think Ben’s “you better sit down” comment to Locke pretty much gives away Michael being the man on the boat. It’s funny how Jack and Juliet have this bond between them and yet Jack makes no mention of her in any of the flash forwards.
    There are two things that are growing tiresome: Kate (just about anytime she is on screen doing anything) and Locke consistently being outmaneuvered by Ben over and over and over.

  14. Connie in Alaska says:

    Yes, I think that Juiliet is Ben’s new “Annie” and my guess is that Annie died while pregnant with Ben’s child. Lots of places to go with that one: maybe Annie was the first to die due to the gestation malady, maybe Ben stole Alex due to grief over losing his own child.

    What is up with Jack and Juliet kissing at the end? Not only do I feel jerked around by the characters, I’m getting slightly annoyed at the writers, too. After seeing Desmond’s amazing reunion with Penny, I just wish those in the love quadrangle would pick someone and get it over with. Either Jack doesn’t believe Kate’s story about why she went back to Otherville, or he’s trying to keep a tight rein on Juliet, OR maybe he really does love her…he also probably still believes that Kate is preggers…she isn’t…is she?

    It would be totally awesome if Ben’s mole turned out NOT to be Michael since all signs point to him. Good substitutes: Patchy or Alpert. But it’s going to be Michael.

    Raise your hand if you wanted to reach into the TV and smack John Locke upside the head! John is obviously grasping at straws on what course to take next and feels that Ben is his only hope given his experience. I am very suspicious about the Widmore tape. How do we know it represents what Ben says it does? And now that he’s loose, he can do that voodoo that he do with his “ability”.

    Finally, the therapist came out of nowhere for me. She was definitely “there” because Jack could see and speak to her, but she was also “not there” in a hurry as soon as the whispers started. Can hardly wait to see what they were saying. Loved the juicy plot behind Juliet, Goodwin, Ben and Harper. Juliet will forever be the “other woman”, first to Annie, then to Harper and now to Kate. Nice little gordian knot that turned out to be.

  15. Z says:

    Wow, Connie in Alaska… spot on!

    That’s a good theory about Ben and Annie’s relationship! It would be the greatest motivator for Ben’s actions. The only times we’ve seen Ben being sincere is when he was warning Alex to escape to survive.

  16. helen says:

    I am being to wonder if Mr. Widmore’s yacht race around the world was a cover to find the island?

    Kind of ironic since Desmond found the island by accident.

  17. Crissy says:

    I don’t think Charlotte is being maternal toward Daniel as much as she’s being patronizing. At the point at which she was being “encouraging” to him, she needed something from him: she NEEDED him to believe in himself, because he needed to deactivate the gassing system.

    I have to admit, I wasn’t too fond of this episode overall . . . though I did appreciate the baseball reference (the Red Sox tape). Guess I’m just not much of a Goodwin fan.

  18. Frank says:

    A good, solid episode that, like we often see in Lost, was needed to push the plot narrative along. (Let’s not forget that amongst the things Lost does really well is functioning kind of like 24. It doesn’t really leave any gaps in the immediate day to day narrative of what is transpiring. So they also don’t randomly jump, from one episode to the next, to a new little self-contained plot. The suspense in the episode’s 40 minutes has to fit into where and when we last saw whichever characters and what they were last doing.

    Not sure why people are so down on Kate. If anything, perhaps, the writers need to start broadening who is involved in the action of the episode. Why not show us more of Jin and Sun tonight?

    Finally, did anyone else start wondering if another reason Jack wants to get back to the island is because of Juliet (assuming she really is going to be made to belong to Ben now, still).

  19. camille says:

    I thought this was a very good episode. I agree that it was not as good as The Constant, but not much is. That said, I thought we got a lot of questions answered (or so we think…). This episode felt a bit more driven to answer questions than to give us a good and interesting story (I mean Goodwin? Who cares? That guy is a snooze), but it was still quite good. Also, I am a sucker for insane love. I got chills when Ben said “You are mine.” I also love it because Ben seems so asexual so it is sort of like this child-like love, which makes it even more creepy and destructive.

    A few more notes/questions:
    -why was everyone so accepting of these lists? ben said to juliet that emma and james were on the list so they had to be taken and she seemed not to question it any further. weird.

    – ugh , jack stop kissing people puh-lease! i am tired of the jack romances, i just don’t think he has much power over the ladies. even juliet said she wouldn’t stay loyal to him in the big battle. the dude is just too pathetic. so good looking but he never really gets the girl.

    – i agree that charlotte is patronizing to daniel, but daniel is so childlike, he needs a caretaker.

    – i just want locke to hand over control to ben, he is just an absolute fool

    – i wish the writers would get claire kidnapped or something so we wouldn’t have to see her again until she is involved in an actual plotline. sometimes i can’t believe emilie de ravin gets paid to just sit around, look dollfaced and blank, and say one completely useless line every episode.

    – i agreee that the man on the freighter must be michael, but it just feels so obvious that i hope that there is a twist or that it turns out to be charlie or some one we thought was dead. honestly i’d be happy if it turned out the be that immortal dude.

  20. I enjoyed this ep alot! But for me, it was Ben! I got all giddy seeing him get all Ben-nish on Juliet when he showed her Goodwin’s body! *lol* I love the evil look on his face when as he said, “you’re mine!” Wooooohahahahaha! *lol*

    Camille, I would love for it to be Charlie!

  21. cat says:

    There was so little “buzz” out there about this episode in the last few days that I was pretty sure it wasn’t going to be one of the best. None the less, there were some interesting moments as described above. To me, the most curious was the wispering followed by the very dark Harper and her subsequet disappearance. Is there a connection between Harper and the smoke monster? Are the whispers and the smoke monster always connected? Is Harper the evil smoke monster? I like John’s theory above as well.

  22. Dave says:

    Really enjoying the comments thus far, and Connie, I think you’re right on the money about Annie being the first pregnant woman to die on the island. Factor in Ben’s mother dying (or Ben killing her per Uncle Rico) while giving birth to him, and you’ve got the makings of quite a psychosis.

    I do enjoy when they flash back and now with more information the picture becomes clearer. We’ve now seen the plane crash from “New Otherton” (as they’ve taken to calling it on the reruns) three times (more?) and each time adds a new layer of complexity. I did think Harper’s intro seemed a bit forced (was she there before?) but not as much as Paolo and Nicki.

    Liked the episode, liked the plot progression. Interesting that Des and Juliet have both been on the island about 3 years. Interesting as well that neither were on the Oceanic 815 flight and that the burgeoning conceit of the show is that 815 has nothing to do with any of this and is there by coincidence.

    Wouldn’t Locke realize that Ben’s claims of the healing powers of the island making it a popular destination ring pretty hollow when people also find out no children can be conceived there? Wouldn’t that knowledge make Widmore less interested? Then again, we’ve seen a few pilgrimages to healing places by our Losties so far in flashbacks…

  23. Dave says:

    Z — I think Ben truly believes he obeys a higher calling than the others, and that he is justified in manipulating them. If you’ve seen The Last King of Scotland — which is excellent and yet disgusting (in every sense) — the portrayal of Idi Amin is resonant. He coves into Uganda as a savior, believes in himself as the just and true ruler, and get his ego and his tenous grasp on reality lead him to become a madman.

    I am not sure if the whispers and the apparitions are one and the same… did Kate hear them before she saw the horse? Dad Jack before he saw his father? I don’t remember. But I like the explanation.

    Boy oh boy, with all the lip-smacking going on, if Sawyer/Kate/Jack/Juliet/Goodwin/Harper had a herpes outbreak on the island, the whole place would be infested.

  24. Rob W says:

    Definitely not as good or even close to the last episode, but…….

    At least we found out at least ONE use of the gas masks…. to save the Freighties lungs in case they didn’t properly disable the gas machine.

    So, in prior episodes, Daniel said they were here to rescue them, then Daniel said that rescuing them was not their primary mission, then Daniel’s bag of gas masks opened up, then Kate opened up the bag of gas masks and got smacked on the head, and then the gas-masks were used by Daniel and Charlotte to protect themselves while they dis-armed the gas machine.

    So are the gas-masks needed for future plans? Are they going to gas the island? Or are they simply there to get Ben, like Miles originally said? I think they are done with the gas masks unless Ben has something he can release.

    Also, Ben telling Locke that the man on the boat is someone he never would have thought of. If it turns out to be Michael, who else would he have thought of? Why wouldn’t they think Michael is on the boat? From a Lostie perspective, do they think Michael is totally gone and has sailed home?

    And Locke let Ben go free? He did get some good info, but Locke now looks like the doubted, whimpy leader that Ben described earlier in the show, right after Locke was questioned by Claire about how Miles was being treated. Locke doesn’t learn. Sawyer and Hurley were not very happy to see Ben walking free with a big smile on his face after all he’s done to them. (Had the living **** beat out of Sawyer and almost killed Hurley on the beach.) Locke may have the right ideas of what is going on with the island, but he’s going to lose his following. They won’t go back to Ben, but they probably will go back to Jack once they find out about the dis-armed gas machine.

    Anyways…….so-so epsiode, especially after last weeks 10+.

  25. paintergirl1 says:

    I found stalker Ben oddly endearing, as well. He’s just so brilliant and socially awkward at the same time! Micheal Emerson does an amazing job of combining an innocent quality with the diabolical. It shouldn’t work, but it does.

    As for the whispers, I don’t know if that necessarily means the smoke monster. We heard the whispers when we see Walt where he isn’t supposed to be. Again, Harper is probably not where she is supposed to be. We also tend to hear them when no one actually appears, like when Cindy is kidnapped, and Sawyer and Sayid hear them when they are on their own. However, I don’t believe we hear whispers around Christian, the horse, Bob, Yemi, or other apparitions of the probable dead. Transcripts of the whispers, though, seem to imply the voices are of the dead. It’s all so confusing.

    I really like the theory that Annie might have been the first victim of death via pregnancy. However, I just can’t imagine Ben being the father. Is it possible the gas used in the purge is part of the cause for the pregnancy issues? If so, that would explain some of Ben’s obsession for finding a cure.

    Question: If the gas used in the purge killed all the people, how did all the animals, such as the polar bears, survive? Did the tree frogs get fit with itty bitty gas masks?

  26. tvscif says:

    Very disappointing episode, didn’t tell us anything we didn’t know or at least suspect. Seeing Juliet in a bikini barely makes up for that 😉

    I think the point of the episode was:
    1. To let us know that Daniel and Charlotte are good.
    2. To remind us Ben is evil, or at least does evil things to get what he wants.

    And what a super cheat to have a character learn something off screen! (Locke has never known more than the audience.) The mole on freighter better not be Michael now, because Ben told Locke “You’d better sit down,” like he wasn’t going to believe who it would be. Michael is the logical choice, Locke knows he got off the Island and that he can be controlled by Ben, so why would be such a shock he would need to sit down? Shocking would be “It’s YOU John, it’s YOU!”

  27. tvscif says:

    Interesting theory, John, on the whispers being people talking during teleporting. That would be better than ghosts.

    But apparently some of the whispers have been of dead people, like Shannon and Boone, so I don’t know how that would fit in with a scientific explication:

    I hope someone transcribes the whispers from this episode.

  28. Phil R says:

    Just a guess right now, while Micheal is on the boat, I don’t think he is the friend helping Des and Syaid out.

    I think it is Walt on the boat as the help.

    He is able to project himself on the island to help Locke because he is special. Probably more powerful than Ben in that respect.


  29. Scott says:

    Long time listener – so great to have you guys back!

    Just thought I would contribute some interesting side notes on The Tempest. The Tempest was based on an actual shipwreck, that of The Sea Venture, which was separated from a fleet of 9 ships on their way to Jamestown colony in Virginia during a hurricane.

    The ship wrecked on a reef about a mile from Bermuda, then known as the “Isle of the Devils”. The entire ship’s crew and one dog made it to shore. Some members of the crew found the island to be a real paradise and some of whom, having already seen the wretchedness waiting for them in the Virginia colony, decided they’d prefer to remain on the island.

    A series of minor mutinies ensued. One of the mutineers, Stephen Hopkins, became the basis for the character of Stephano in Shakespeare’s version. After somehow talking his way out of a hanging, Hopkins would later become a passenger on another fateful journey; that of the Mayflower. While in transit to Plymouth, Hopkins’ wife would give birth to a son named Oceanus.

    Keep up the great work you two. We really missed you!


  30. Scott says:

    Forgot to mention, and really pushing it now, but Hopkins was a member of a group of passengers referred to by the Pilgrims as “The Strangers”.

  31. Lovena says:

    I think the whispers are coming from other folks that are conscious time traveling between many, many parallel timelines.

  32. Dave says:

    I agree with Phil R. Almost guaranteed that Michael is on the boat but he’s probably not “Ben’s man.” It could be Richard Alpert… the ABC podcast insinuates that we’ll learn where he is in this pod of episodes. That would explain how Daniel knows where the gas was and how he learned to disable it. Either that or he flashed forward. 😉

  33. xtremdelt says:

    I’m starting to wonder about Hurly and his sporting ability.

    He can beat any one at ping pong. He’s a dead ringer at horse shoes. And he never missed a single shot while playing basketball.

    We’ve gotten hints this season that he too may be special like Walt. Could it be that when he puts his mind to it, he can do anything? (Like Walt learning how to throw the knife)

    Also, for the first time, he said he was “lucky.” (Lucky…Horseshoes, ok I get it) But it was so quick and right before the Ben moment that I’m not sure many people even noticed it. But it was so not-Hurley, that it made me wonder. When did his self image change about his luck?

  34. Gretchen says:

    does anyone know where someone’s posted info on what the whispers said last night???

  35. Tom says:

    Crackpot prediction: Ben pays off Miles with a portion of Nikki and Paoulo’s diamonds (value: $8 million).

  36. Connie in Alaska says:

    Gretchen-You can go to and look for “Whispers” in the menu bar at the top of the page. I know they had audio clips posted on the homepage last night and they usually have transcripts soon after.

    Laughed out loud a Dave’s herpes comment and Paintergirl1’s itty bitty gasmasks…HA!

    Wow, even though this is turning out to be a so-so episode, it sure is sparking a lot of theory mongering here on The Transmission blog, which is great! Xtremdelt..liked your observation about Hurley’s seeming change in luck and his ability to excel in games of hand/eye coordination. Very similar to Walt’s ability to win at backgammon. What was the turnaround for Hurley’s fortunes?

    Several very curious things about Harper’s jungle appearance to Juliet:
    1. Juliet did not seem freaked out by the whispers but she definitely
    went on the alert. Likewise she wasn’t startled or fearful of
    Harper’s sudden appearance, more like, “Oh, what do you want”.

    2. Juliet knows that Ben is a prisoner of warden John Locke, yet she
    didn’t question Harper about how she was in contact with Ben or
    how he happened to know where Char and Dan were headed and
    what they were planning to do. Juliet must be fully aware of Ben’s
    special powers (whatever they may be, but it is coming clearer
    with each episode).

    3. At first I was surprised that Jack could see and talk to Harper, but
    then I remembered that both Shannon and Sayid saw Walt
    standing in the rain right before Shannon got shot by Ana Lucia.
    Are there other instances?

  37. Connie in Alaska says:

    Gretchen-I was just on DarkUFO’s site and the whispers are gone for some reason. At any rate I couldn’t find them. Sorry

  38. Jan says:

    When Harper mentioned that Juliette looked like someone else, it reminded me of when Ben said to Jack, that Juliette bore a striking resemblance to Jack’s exwife Sarah.

    Does Juliette just look like a lot of other blonde women or these 2 women in particular or is it really just one woman?

  39. Michelle says:

    One thing I really did appreciate about this episode: I’ve been wondering since “The Man Behind the Curtain” how it is possible to gas people in an open area. Now, I know.

    And you have to give credit to both the writers and Michael Emerson. In one episode, they managed to make Ben almost-cute *and* exponentially creepier, both developments I would never have thought possible.

    (Also, Juliet isn’t grossed-out by much, is she?)

  40. havasupi says:

    Here’s a crazy thought what if the man on the boat is Eko? I think Michael is too obvious and wouldn’t knock the socks off Locke enough to release Ben.

    I’m thinking it could be a “dead” person. With all the time jumping going on, what’s to say if you die in one time you are dead in another. Minkowski’s last words were he couldn’t get back – – Maybe he is still alive where he couldn’t get back from.

    I know Eko is a way out there theory, and the last person anyone would think of. If the writers are going for a shock — then.

    I have to say though, Lost hasn’t kept me glued to me seat lately. So I have missed chunks of info. But also, perhaps, chunks of misinformation.

    I am losing interest and sympathy with most of the characters. I don’t care who gets Kate and at this point I think Sawyer is too good for her and Jack is no prize — even before it turned out he turns to drugs in his future.

    Locke had a nice arc going until The Hatch blew. Now he just keeps making one mistake after another. I don’t know if he is learning from them — when he threw the tray with the last egg within Ben’s hearing — I thought that was just stupid if he couldn’t tell Ben was playing him. But then he got ugly with the grenade in Miles mouth — making me think he is changing it up. So, I am leaning two ways in determining how Ben got his freedom. 1. Locke is playing Ben — giving Ben what he wants so Locke will learn more if Ben has his guard down. 2. Locke is dead.

  41. NuckinFuts says:

    Let’s see…the boat man….I would certainly not be suprised after reading up the past few weeks that Michael is actually the man on the boat…but that doesn’t tell me why in the world he would want to help Ben.

    Ben promised Michael he would find rescue by sailing off in a certain direction. But that was only after the Others had kidnapped Walt and forced him to aid in Ben’s resucue…which only reminds me of the fact that I’m not 100% in love w/ Michael as a character…based on what he did and who he killed to get Ben loose. Let’s just say that if it is him that I won’t be all glad to see him and come close to crying like I did with Des. & Penny the other week.

    I know LOST would not be afraid to do an explanation flashback to Michael’s brief time with Ben before he sailed off with Walt. This would have to show a meeting about how Michael will be the guy to come back to the island and help Ben. But to what purpose? Ben proves he can get people home and in return Michael gets to keep his promise to come back and rescue Jack and them? Any way…Michael would have had to stage the comments that “How do you know I won’t tell anyone about this place…and yada yada” and Ben’t reply of “You won’t want people to know what you did here…etc., etc.” But why the charade?

    Michael’s only motivation has always been to keep Walt. Walt is the one who made the suggestion that he wanted to just stay on the island. So it’s more probable to me that Walt is the man on the boat if it’s either of them. But Walt’s suggestions during his “3 minutes” made it seem that he did not enjoy being w/ the Others and was afraid of them. This makes it hard to swallow that he would help Ben. Even in the Mobisodes Walt was doing what he could to get free or at least cause troubles for the Others by killing the birds and such.

    Walt also helped John right after Ben shot him ( about a week ago I assume island time. Re-affirming that John Locke is an idiot and at very least an incompetant leader. Sawyer / Hurley and the rest are starting to realize now and Ben is taking advantage of….AGAIN…of course based on LOST if he changes like we started to see glimmers of around the end of last year he will probably get shot again and this time hopefully die…or at least become one with the smoke monster or something. ) and said he had more work to do. To me if anyone opened the door for Des & Sayid and was unseen there is a better chance it is “Taller Walt” by means of the force.

    Since these are my beliefs up until next week I guess I should throw out a majic guess as to who is the man on the boat…My official guess as to the man on the boat is…drumroll……..Jin’s dad…naaah…j.k……hey- he’s a fisherman………uuuhhh……..the undercover cop that John let live……naah……um………Boone…nope…too dead….maybe…….uuuhh…..can someone help me here?

  42. CatherineD says:

    Isn’t Ben’s man on the boat Sayid? We know from the flash-forward that Sayid works for him. We just don’t know when or how that gets started.

  43. Tulsi says:

    I don’t know if anyone noticed but there was a discrepancy in yesterday’s show. In the previous seasons, when we had seen the part of the tailes and how Ben dispatched Goodwin and Ethan, right before that, Juliet was having a book club meeting in which Ben was excluded (it showed the rift between both of them had already started). In last night’s episode, it made it seem that the rift between Juliet and Ben started after he showed her Goodwin’s body (there was a scene that took place after the plane crashed where Juliet went over to Ben’s dinner party and stayed even though he tricked her into coming). Why would Juliet go to a dinner party at Ben’s even though she thought others would be there if just a few days back, she wouldn’t invite him to the book club meeting and acknowledge her dislike of him in front of the entire club? I think the writers messed up there!

  44. Connie in Alaska says:

    Tulsi-All good points, but at the time of the plane crash Juliet had already been on the island 2.5 years longer than she signed up for and was desperate to get back to her “real time” life and family. I think the think with Goodwin just helped her leap over the edge in full rebellion to Ben. After all, her relationship with Goodwin may have been the only thing keeping her sane. With him gone, there was no reason to toe the line any longer.

  45. joe sheshlie says:

    hi ryan and jen

    first time long time. was very sad during your hiatus, glad to have you back. love hearing your insights every week.

    i thought that for the amount of info revealed this week, i just wasn’t excited as with the previous 2 episodes – there wasn’t the wow factor for some reason.

    but i have 3 thoughts that are bugging me:

    1. i had always assumed that the whispers accompanied a vision or paranormal event. but since the whispers bookended Harper’s appearance and she was not a vision exclusive to juliet, as jack saw and talked to her, then i have to conclude that walt, who locke saw from the pit (and was accompanied by whispers, i believe) is actually still on the island.

    what i can’t wrap my mind around is that shannon also heard the whispers before seeing walt, who was kidnapped at that point, right? i don’t think the others were letting him wander around. plus, harper and walt seem to appear and disappear pretty suddenly, so are we talking about some teleportation or projection? are the whispers equivalent to nightcrawler’s BAMF?

    2. in episode 2, frank was so distraught that the “cover-up pilot” is not his friend “pilot grunberg,” that he calls in to tell the authorities (and presumably gets himself included on the expedtion). yet in all his interactions with the survivors, he has not once asked about pilot grunberg. why the french toast not?!?

    here’s another thing i find suspicious: the people who are behind the cover up must be really powerful to stage a plane crash full of bodies (cadavers or innocent cilivilians killed for the cover up? either way, freaky!). once frank called in, how could they let him live? after all the trouble they went through they couldn’t have frank blowing the cover. how is he even alive, much less involved in this expedition?

    and what large organization would need to stage the cover up anyway? my guess is dharma (sans greg), who knows what the island is all about and can’t have it be discovered during a search for the plane, so they close the book on it with the faux 815.

    3. this whole time travel via consciousness thing: i MIGHT be able to buy it if they hadn’t started with present desmond jumping into past desmond, who fleetingly remembers the present then past desmond takes over for the rest of the episode. they should have started with past desmond jumping into present desmond first, that way i could maybe believe that the past consciousness could supplant the present, but they way they did it, the present desmond should have taken over the past desmond.

    but that’s not my big problem. this is:

    like dropping a rock into a glass of water, the extra water that the rock displaces, must go somewhere. the way this process is portrayed, the present consciousness dies and is replaced with the past one. but what happened to his present consciousness?? and what happens to the past body (presumably asleep) while the past consciousness continues (permanently?) in the present?

    what would make more sense to me, would be if the two consciousnesses swapped and desmond’s present consciousness were in the past while the past one is in the present. then you could have desmond talking to faraday, not knowing that he just talked to faraday because it was the other desmond and faraday saying “but i just told you this” and madcap hijinks ensue.

    however, in order for the past desmond to continue, the consciousnesses HAVE to be restored to their original positions. as it stands, desmond’s past consciousness is now in the present, meaning that his past body is passed out somewhere in the past and will never get past the past and the present will be passed over.

    i’m just not going to get past this.

    joe sheshlie

  46. TimR says:

    I’m not certain “The Tempest” was definitely a reference to the play. It could just be a reference to tempests in general, ie storms, ie an electrical station…

  47. Dave says:

    Joe — really good points. I like your questions about swapping consciousness. I guess the explanation would be that people conceive of time/existence as a linear concept, and the ability to move your consciousness in time suggests that existence is non-linear. The really interesting conceit by the writers is that you can move thought, but not physical being. (So it’s more akin to the Matrix than to Back to the Future, and it’s why the writing os Des’s hand doesn’t move with him.) It’s as if the body was a vessel through which the sentient mind can move (again a la the Matrix).

    I got the sense that the footage of 815 shown on TV was a digital forgery… the initial scenes sure looked like CGI. The pilot’s corpse could have been staged. I do think it’s interesting that Frank hasn’t asked about the pilot, but maybe he got a debriefing on the ship or before getting on. We might learn in a flashback. It’s very curious, though.

  48. Dave says:

    Nuckinfuts — I can’t remember the details, but the synopsis of Ben and Michael from “Live Together, Die Alone” from lostpedia is below:

    At the dock, Henry Gale closes the deal with Michael. “Henry” is not happy with the arrangement, but they got “more than they bargained for when Walt joined them.” Since he brought the requested people from Flight 815, and lived up to his word, Michael is given the boat, as well as custody of Walt, and instructed to escape the Island by following a bearing of 325 degrees to find rescue. Michael is intrigued by how simplistic it is. He asks Henry how he knows he won’t tell anyone about the Island. But “Henry” replies that whether or not he tells people won’t matter: once he has left the Island, he won’t be able to come back. Moreover, “Henry” believes that Michael won’t tell anyone, because if he does, people will find out what he did to get his son back. Michael was promised that his friends would not be hurt, and Henry agrees: a deal’s a deal. Finally, Michael asks the obvious to “Henry”: “Who are you people?” To this, with a big smile on his face, “Henry” replies, “We’re the good guys, Michael.” As Michael is reunited with his son on the boat, “Henry” adds, “Bon voyage, Michael.”

    Ben never told Michael that he’d find rescue, but he also didn’t know (we think) that the boat would be there. It is also very Ben-esque to do something like provide a boat so that someone can leave knowing they’re in the middle of nowhere and can’t get back to the island. Michael might be on the boat but he might not be “Ben’s man.”

    Also interesting… I forgot the compass readings were different. So if Michael leaves the other side of the island at 325 degrees and Frank leaves the beach at 305, they wouldn’t wind up in the same place.

    I just had an A-HA moment… maybe the Black Rock’s log describes the bearing that it took to get to the island, and that way Charles Widmore’s boat would know how to get there when nobody else would. That explain’s Des’s inability to sail away when he disappeared, and Michael’s inability to get back.

  49. Ouiser says:

    I love this forum! You guys so rock with your theories!

    If Michael’s not the man on the boat, I wonder how he’ll be returned to the show. You all probably know that the actor that plays Michael has said on entertainment shows that he’s coming back to Lost.

    Also, my first thought when Sawyer asked Hurley where he learned to play horseshoes like that was he learned it in the mental hospital. What else is there to do at a mental hospital? So, that’s where I think he developed such mad hand/eye skills. Plus, his psyche powers are starting to kick-in too. Maybe he’ll be like that girl in Heroes that can watch someone do something, like Kung Fu, and be able to imitate it exactly. 🙂 That’s my two cents. Clink, clink.

  50. MJ says:

    Other than Walt, I think that the person on the boat is John Locke’s father. Dead, but not dead. This would be shocking. Ben laying on the guilt. Ben with his clean clothes and getting his home back and the jaw-dropping duo was the best scene in this otherwise snoozer epi. Thought I was watching a daytime soap.

    One thought: Could Penny, Juliet & Rachael be daughters of Widmore? King Lear? Something suspicious about Juliet ‘creating’ a reason to make Ben jealous. The ‘affair’ just did seem right. Juliet may be even more manipulative than Ben. If that’s possible.

    Kate with power hair-do in jungle too funny. And the turning your back on the ‘enemy’ was a weak writers moment. And the tracking thing really too much.

    Very concerned that the writers going back and explaining every ‘other’ viewpoint to tie up story line could be boring and unnecessary. I prefer the advancement to the end.

    Every Sawyer/Hurley scene is great. I like the sports connection. One of the mobisodes had Jin completely loosing it on the ‘golf’ course. Maybe Hurley’s luck changed when Charlotte joined the group. Maybe she a constant. That would be a great storyline – all those Hurley backstories could be his mind jumping from the island (where he knows the numbers) to his past making him seem unlucky and crazy. Now that Charlotte has arrived his past self is back to normal.

    Keep up the great cast. I like it better that you are not editing your show, but letting it out with all its foibles. I am listening to you from 100″ snow totals this winter. A little aloha warmth helping to keep out the winter blues.

    MJ from the midwest

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