Exposé
Oh my god. There are so many things wrong with tonight’s episode. But I loved it. I absolutely loved it. “Exposé” will, I predict, ultimately become a conversational litmus test for “LOST” fans: either you loved it, or you hated it, and either way, you’d be right.
Was it filler? Sure. It certainly broke the “island mystery” momentum. Was it cheesy and campy and full of shout-outs and knowing winks? Absolutely, about as subtle as a Mack truck. Did it feel more like a punchline to a joke with a three-month wind up than the usual “you’ll like them when you get to know them” song and dance? Maybe.
But as with many great TV shows (from “The X-Files” to the shortlived “Firefly”), sometimes the rare episodes that break the mold and get a little weird are the ones you remember the most. The creators, the writers, the cast… they all clearly had fun with “Exposé.” And that mutual enjoyment really came through.
Off the top of my head, I can think of only one solid “development” in island time: Sun learned Charlie was her kidnapper. We knew Sun would find out eventually, but I wouldn’t have guessed it’d be Charlie that told her… in a reflective, quiet conversation no less. The more Charlie “gets his affairs in order,” the more I’m doubting my assertion that his predicted demise was actually a guarantee of longevity.
So, compared to the feast that was “The Man from Tallahassee”? Story wise, “Exposé” was barely a nibble.
Everything else was a creative exercise. And one in which I can, again, find many things to nitpick. But with the episode opening in a strip club, with stolen orphanage money, and a Billy Dee Williams cameo, I was stunned out of my skepticism and dropped my guard completely. They had me at “razzle dazzle.” The whole conversation about guest stars, character deaths, and improbable reappearances was so over-the-top, I practically fell off my chair.
The care put into recreating scenes from earlier episodes, presenting them from another perspective with an almost childlike “they were there the whole time!” feel, actually impressed me. (Jen, not so much.) From the crash, to Jack’s “live together” speech, to their trek into the jungle, it was at once disorienting and heartwarming… like a little retrospective to remind us of those heady, early days. Like “The Other 48 Days,” but with a sense of joy rather than dread.
I got a rush seeing Boone and Shannon again. (And I guess Boone was finally outed.) I loved that Nikki and Paulo judged them, the same way a random airport couple once judged Sun and Jin. And having Boone emerge from the flames to ask Nikki for a pen was brilliant. A moment that was like a little gift to those of us who’ve been with “LOST” since day one.
It was great to see Dr. Arzt once again. And Ethan. And the drug plane, too. It has been quite a ride so far, hasn’t it?
But the big “gotcha” was revisiting The Pearl, and specifically the scene from Episode 3×05, “The Cost of Living.” When we first see Paulo come out of that bathroom, we were apoplectic at how ridiculous it is. It was so random, so awkward… well, of course it was a clue. Suddenly, they couldn’t have been more obvious.
Indeed, how perfect were the links between “Exposé” the episode and “Exposé” the soap opera? Right down to the twist ending. So, the much maligned Nikki and Paulo are dead. Or are they?
This whole madcap caper apparently unfolds as Jack, Kate, Sayid, Ben, Ethan and friends get down to business at the barracks. And I do hope we’ll rejoin them next week.
Notes & Notions:
- Nikki’s belated acknowledgement of Thanksgiving was a nice touch. Christmas can’t be far ahead.
- I expected Paulo’s splattered spider would draw more spiders to take down Nikki, but the “monster” sound that preceded their arrival had to have been significant.
- Bookspotting: Sawyer was reading “Evil Under the Sun,” by Agatha Christie. Thanks, but… we’re going to need a few more literary shoutouts this season, considering we’re going to have to read even more as we wait for Season Four to begin in 2008.
- Locations: The strip club was Club 939 on Keeaumoku. Of course we saw the Convention Center cum airport again (didn’t we?). Can’t place the dead director’s house, though. Could be anywhere.
- “Exposé” discussion at TheFuselage.com and Lost-Forum.com
March 28th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
WOWW .. I dont wanna tease anybody.. but… this episode is so good !!! I never tought Nikki and Paulo can be interesting at that point !!! nice episode !!
March 28th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Why Boone need a pen ??
March 28th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
OK WOW, so someone tell me that this episode was important enough to do one of two thing. One, they went to a LOT of trouble to integrate the Nikki and Paulo story into the Lost lore be reshooting a lot of scenes from prior episodes to make it look like they were a bigger part of the story OR two, they had been planning this episode from the very beginning and shot all that footage when they shot the original episodes.
Either way, it places a huge amount of emphasis on this episode. But the ending plays more like a Twilight Zone episode than an important part of the big picture of Lost. I have a feeling we haven’t seen the last of Paulo and Nikki, especially since earlier in the episode we hear Locke making the comment that “nothing stays buried on this island”.
My head is still spinning over some of the reveals we had thonight. I also have to say I loved seeing Sun punch Sawyer in the face.
March 28th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
I can’t disagree with you there..considering, it sorta got away from the whole…”Lost”…basis. It was boarder line…disturbing. The show..while not great..kinda interesting.
March 28th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Steve, in the pilot when Boone and Jack were doing cpr on rose and boone suggested doing a tracheotomy on her and jack said “go find me a pen” mostly to get boone out of his hair.
Liked the episode better than I thought I would. Buried alive! what a nightmare!
March 28th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
What the hell. First, “Battlestar Galactica” thinks it’s “Law & Order”, now “Lost” thinks it’s “Without a Trace”? I’d tune into TNT if I wanted to watch those shows. A terrible episode with the least interesting characters so far this season. Bring back Bernard and Rose.
March 28th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Boone was looking for a pen, the 1 that the doc used to do a treach on someone to save them. I think that’s what I’m thinking of..but could be off.
March 28th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
This episode was just like the van episode…out of order. I want the episodes to continue on from the previous week. I feel as though this week and the van week were just filler episodes. I want ANSWERS, not more questions.
March 28th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Some random comments in no particular order:
It was nice seeing the old scenes, integrated in a new way, and seeing old familiar faces. The scene with Ben and Juliet was chilling with the hindsight that we now have.
So much for the speculation (and, it appears, planted fake pictures on the ‘net) that Nikki and Paulo somehow switched places with Rose and Bernard (in a time loop). None of the ’stills’ on the net showed up in this episode. Also, what was with the recent Cuse/Lindelof comment that maybe this episode will leave fans thinking the show had jumped the shark? It didn’t seem like it did that in anyway to me. Or were they talking about the whole diamond heist scam? However, I was reminded of one of their podcast comments that if people wanted to see Nikki and Paulo dead, they needed to be careful of what they wished for.
Speaking of death, is Charlie’s story coming to an end? He has sobered up, owned up to his acts, and seems at peace. Usually, this type of resolution for a character spells death.
Sad to see any character die…. even Nikki and Paulo, who we now got to know a bit better. Between Shannon and Boone and Nikki and Paulo, I guess if you are eye candy, you don’t have a good chance of living much past one season.
Sun’s lack of accent this week after it came back last after losing it earlier is now getting annoying to the point of distraction any time she is in a scene.
What was up with Shannon’s comment to Boone at the aiport about checking out Paulo? Is that the writers making fun of the fan buzz that a gay character is to be revealed?
March 28th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
the producers were having a blast with this episode and really wrote it for us die hard LOST nerds. i mean all those meta lines?
director to nikki after her death scene: “maybe we can find a way to bring you back next season!”
or nikki about paulo “he’s like the brazilian wolfgang puck”
the episode was hilarious, particularly hurley. plus we had some nice reveals like that the Others knew about the pearl and the swan station before Ben got captured
March 28th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
cuedblu,
I know many people with foreign accents and the funny thing is that when they spend a good part of their time speaking in their native language, when they go back to English their accent tends to become far more pronounced.
The same applies to speaking English for extended periods, the longer one spends speaking a language, the greater the chance of losing/gaining their accent.
Just an observation from the “real world”…
Thanks Ryan & Jen! Miss the podcast, love the site as much as the show!
p.s. No one mentioned the two girls running TOWARDS the gunshots?
March 28th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Thanks Dean. The fluctuation just is distracting to me. My parents and most relatives aren’t native English speakers (while I am), but I have never noticed their accents fluctuating that wildly. My guess is that it isn’t Yunjin Kim’s subtle acting out of accents (she has none in real life), but rather a lack of continuity. Or perhaps they are trying to indicate that she is getting rid of the accent over time.
I forgot to make note of the walkie talkie our Losties now have - that has working batteries! A little eavesdropping on the Others perhaps?
March 28th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
AWESOME EPISODE!!!
Power lines?? Paolo lies??? Paralyzed!!!! VERY CLEVER.
It was funny at times, heartbreaking, and quite exciting. The really sad part was how, very slowly, Paolo realizes that Nikki cares more about the diamonds than him; you can actually see the pain on his face twice: right after the plane crashes and the first thing she asks about is the carry-on bag; next, right before he dives in looking for the bag at the pond where Kate and Saywer found the marshal’s gun case. I was very impressed by the acting ability of Rodrigo Santoro. Kuddos to him!
Also, kuddos to the writers and producers! The way they planned the entire episode was very clever: connecting lose ends, bringing back characters long gone such as Artz (though I wish they had brought Michael back as well) and wrapping up and disclosing a few mysteries. I just couldn’t have enjoyed this episode more. The best part: I got my wish come true — They actually mentioned Thanksgiving Day!!! (Can’t wait to see how they will approach Christmas). In general, they did a very good job. Even the newspaper Paolo is reading at the airport has the right date on it. However, I think there was an error; Ben mentions something about covering the entrance to the Pearl station with the plane, but at this point in time that plane was still up on the trees. If it was not, then how come the walkie-talkie was not there when Locke first entered the station?
And I really hope that Desmond’s ability comes back to save Paolo and Nikki. No matter how much some of us have disliked them in the past (or even still today) NOBODY deserves that kind of death. Besides, I would like to know WHY Paolo and Nikki never told anyone about the things they knew about the Others, such as finding the Pearl station before anyone else. If they return, they would play a bigger role given all this knowledge they have. Perhaps Paolo can show us the tunnel through which Ben and Juliet entered the Pearl!! BTW, wouldn’t it have been nicer if Ben had been accompanied by Ms. Klugh instead of Juliet?
Another thought: I am dying to see the screen captures from the Lost-Media gallery, just because something creeped me out tonight: During the first minutes after the crash, while the camera is following Nikki around, I thought I saw Dr. Christian Shephard (I watched it several times in slow motion, but whoever it is does not appear too clearly); as I said, the camera is following Nikki, in the background you see a man similar to Christian, and in the foreground there is part of the wreckage. Once nikki is past the wreckage, the man is gone!!! the take only lasts a couple of seconds; but it is interesting. The other thing I noticed was a black man also walking in the background behind Nikki. This man is clearly NOT Michael; who is he? He looks more like Mr. Eko than Michael, but we all know Mr. Eko was a Tailie. Besides, this man is wearing a light yellow (or white) shirt and dark pants (just like Mr. Eko); Michael was wearing a very light blue shirt and light khaki pants. I am puzzled!
March 28th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
People are going to say this episode sucked.
It didn’t. It was really good
March 28th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
This episode reminded me of the movie ADAPTATION. The story on the island was a departure from our regular Lost, but somewhat mirrored the “plot” of Expose in its mystery component. I liked the episode. Made the Paulo/Nikki duo a bit more likable in their demise. Enjoyed the flashbacks and retro look at all that has gone on over the past seasons. The people that complain about Lost can take solace that the writing on the show is still good and very clever. It certainly hasn’t gone completely down the tubes ala 24. Can’t wait for next week.
March 28th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Like most episodes since the hiatus, this was another entertaining well-done episode. NO gripes here, unlike several others. Those of us that post online, listen to pod casts and/or like to dissect every millimeter of film have to keep in mind that not everyone is as critical on literally every scene or move a character makes. That the more you knit-pick, the more you take away from truly enjoying the episode.
Speaking of being so critical, if you guys and gals haven’t noticed, the show has pretty much stuck to a similar formula. If they are not jumping back and forth from one group of people to another, they are throwing in these type of episodes that add a bit more mystery without getting really deep.
Is there anything wrong with JUST WATCHING IT and ENJOYING IT? Did anyone notice there were 108 spiders and 4 of them had the Dharma logo on their backs? WHAT? Then you weren’t paying close enough attention? :c)
March 28th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
a little bit of a Shark-Jumper, but certainly not a bad episode. It was no doubt another transition. One thing I love and hate about Sawyer is his slow development on the island. Hasn’t being here taught him anything? He didn’t toss the diamonds out of empathy- he did because he has no hope.
I found Paolo’s sequence at the Pearl most interesting. He must have really loved those diamonds (or is it Nicki?) to not have mentioned ANYTHING to the group. And Eko’s plane? Wow- ha, “why don’t you go climb up it?”
Looking forward to seeing what you two have to say about the episode.
March 28th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Juliet see Jack for the first time a the Pearl… how can she know all his life ?? Jacob tell her ???
March 29th, 2007 at 1:26 am
Well, I’m glad I waited until this morning to watch that episode. I’d probably have nightmares if I saw it right before bed. What a terrible way to die!
I’m still not sure why the producers hired these two actors if only to kill them in their first real episode. The only logical reason would be to use their story to fill us in on more information. So….did we get more information we need from this episode thanks to Nikki and Paolo.
Yes and no not much. We learned that Boone was definitely gay from Shannon telling to stop oogling other men. We learned about some nasty spiders on the island. We got 6 million in diamonds which Sawyer buried with Nikki and Paolo. Somehow I think the diamonds are much more important and we’ll see them again.
This episode gave Charlie a reason to confess to Sun’s kidnapping and let Sun know that it was Sawyer’s idea. It seems Charlie is making peace with everyone - perhaps before he dies later this season.
The losties now have a walkie-talkie which is likely to come into play sooner rather than later.
We learned that the Others planned to take Sawyer and Kate only to use them as pawns to get Jack to do the surgery. This tells me that (after the beach breakfast) they didn’t do anything too nasty to Kate.
I read that someone elsewhere swears they saw Jack’s dad walking around in one of the crash scenes with Nikki and Paolo. I didn’t see that.
Those scenes were really well done. It was hard to tell what was new footage (Boone asking for the pencil that Jack needed to use on the marshall) and what was old with some skillful editing. I can’t believe (nor have I heard) that they re-dragged the wreck back to the beach.
It’s a shame in retrospect that Nikki and Paolo didn’t tell the losties about the hatch they found right after they found it. Had they done so, maybe Boone might never have climbed up to the plane and died. Maybe the losties would have been clued in earlier to the Others.
Speaking of which, it seems Ben and Juliet got to the Swan station via some sort of tunnel. Why haven’t the losties explored that to see where it leads from the hatch end?
Yes, it was a filler episode, but a well done filler with some valuable information - just not a lot.
John
March 29th, 2007 at 1:39 am
I dont see how anyone could have thought last nights episode was bad in anyway…… i mean what makes you people happy?
March 29th, 2007 at 2:20 am
Tallman, I’m usually happy when the show is well-written with an interesting, intelligent plot. If it adds to the lore of the island, even better. When it’s poorly and lazily written, when the plot is straight out af a cheesy B-movie, and when the island mystery elements only serve to screw up already established continuity (could someone explain how the time course of Paolo seeing Ben & Juliet in the hatch makes any sense, considering that it had to take place after Locke and Eko moved the plane off, but before Ben got ‘captured’ by the Losties) I tend to be not so happy.
I thought that Expose was junk … not ‘bad for Lost’ bad, but bad for any episode of any TV show. I don’t mind filler episodes, but why on earth were these two characters introduced? If they wanted to do a cheesy B-movie type filler ep packed with dopey in-jokes and shout-outs, why not use established characters that we care about instead of wasting our time with these two losers? Wow, I could go on and on, but I guess we know now why Nikki and Paolo are going to be ‘icons’ among Lost fans … they’re the feature characters in the worst episode of the series!
March 29th, 2007 at 2:21 am
How Edgar Allen Poe can you get? It was a nice nod to the first season of Lost, where all the magic started. Wouldn’t it be interesting if the whole purpose of the show was to get the walkie talkie into Sawyer’s hands?
Nikki turned out to be the brains of the operation, Paolo was really dumb. I never really disliked them, she was certainly great eye candy and really proved it in the nightclub scene.
Weren’t Ben and Juliette more chummy than you’d expect in the Pearl scene?
Back to the others next week…
March 29th, 2007 at 2:25 am
Tallman,
I think we’re living in a DaVinci Code society where most folks want each episode to be like a Dan Brown book. Some feel that each episode advances the story, answers some questions and leads us closer to the answer.
Unfortunately, that works for a book, movie, TV mini-series but not a continuing TV drama where the network is looking to drag out the story for years, even if the story should have a finite life.
I have found the episodes that many call fillers to be a lot of fun, i.e. the Hurley VW episode and this one. Each have had a bit of information, but what’s wrong with just a fun episode like the Hurley episode or a real black comedy one like last night?
March 29th, 2007 at 2:36 am
Not sure if it is Boone..in one of his flash backs when he was “rescuing” her from the boyfriend, he told her he was gay so she would not know he was..interested in her . So, she thinks he is..but not really…
March 29th, 2007 at 2:50 am
It was a pretty good episode lots of little tibbits… I found myself warming up to Paolo and hating Niki even more. I liked how Artz compared Niki to the Medusa spider. I think she is more like a Black Widow myself but a bitch either way and is deserving of everything that happens to her.
Does anyone besides myself believe that the beach scene with Paolo looking out over the ocean right after the crash is important? I will have to watch the episode again to be sure, but it appeared to me that Paolo was really looking at something and was not just dazed and confused. It sounded like he was starting to say something like “look at that” but was interrupted by Niki. I wonder what it was that he could have possibly have seen.
March 29th, 2007 at 3:11 am
I don’t think that every episode needs to be super-mysterycentric, like ‘Man from Tallahassee’ was, but if there’s going to be a filler, shouldn’t it be about characters that we’re actually interested in, and be a story that we actually care about? I thought that the VW episode was great; the story was kind of dopey, but fun and well-written; mainly, though, it really showcased the chemistry about some of our favorite characters. Does anybody (or did aybody) really care about Nikki and Paolo? Did last night’s episode suddenly make you understand and sympathize with them? Did anybody give a darn whether or not they found the diamonds?
March 29th, 2007 at 3:28 am
This would have been fine as a first-season episode, but this late in the game it was just filler. It must have been expensive to recreate the crash, I wished they would have spent the money on other episodes that moved the story forward. The winks to fans and past episodes were fun, but this show didn’t live up to the hype or the long, drawn out setup.
First, it was a plot directly taken from an “Alfred Hitchcock Presents” episode that I saw coming from the first 2 minutes. Second, what a waste to bring back Boone and Shannon for this lame story (good use of Artz though).
Also, what was the point of Ben dragging Juliet all the way across the island just to go into the pearl station to watch Jack on a monitor for 5 seconds? Seemed really forced and out of character. (I suspect that radio Paulo found will come in handy in future episodes.)
Did anyone else get their HD picture in the normal TV aspect ratio, or was it just a mistake of my cable company? I suspect with the narrower aspect ratio it was easier to shoot the crash scene, but it still bugged me.
I’m getting sick of them dragging out the plot. It is as if they are afraid once we discover what is going on we will stop watching the show. Is the secret of the island so lame that stories can’t be told in that universe once it is revealed? It is starting to feel like they have a 3 year plot they need to stretch out to 5 years and this won’t be our last filler episode.
March 29th, 2007 at 3:29 am
Think Nikki and Paulo are dead? Think again. In their present state, they require very little air and the graves looked “shallow” to me. The flashback of John Locke instructing Paulo not to bury anything near the beach because of errosion was key. SCENARIO: they could be washed into the water, regain conscienceness, then stagger onto the beach and BLOW everyone’s mind. Not my favorite episode, but it’s always cool getting to see some retro stuff.
March 29th, 2007 at 4:01 am
To reinforce my theory, I thought of something else. Sawyer very thoughtfully (but conveniently) closed Nikki’s eyelids before shoveling sand on top of her. (I’m assuming he did the same for Paulo). That would prevent damage to their eyes from the sand. If the story does have them survive and they realize they are supposed to be dead, Nikki’s criminial mind may use this to her advantage somehow. Where are Rose and Bernard? Nikki and Shannon have great legs.
March 29th, 2007 at 4:10 am
Excellent episode, certainly not the best but they can’t all be the best. I think its pure genious how the producers develop and deepen the story with episodes that really only look back. You don’t have to move forward in time to move the story forward. This episode was certainly important, and even though there were many “shout-outs”, they were also purposely placed story elements. For me, the story-telling was excellent. I love the show’s formula, but I also love how the show can break formula with episodes like this and still make it interesting, even if all the “fair-weather” fans out there are too blinded by their own opinions and nit-picking to understand.
March 29th, 2007 at 4:41 am
I thnk the ol’ writer boys are weaving together a huge, complex tale, and they have at least some sense of where it’s going (or how all the pieces are linked together)…. Last night’s episode felt, to me, anyway, like the dots of the Big Picture were starting to connect, even if we still don’t exactly know how. The interweavings from the past helped that feeling, I think.
Also, it felt to me like the Tailies are coming together, that their relationship as a group is maturing and growing more peaceable. I too was glad Sun slapped Sawyer– but also that she wasn’t going to tell Jin. And that Sawyer tried in his own clumsy/unrealized way to apologize by giving Sun the diamonds.
And while I was somewhat annoyed by the sudden dominance of two characters that seemed gratuitious in the past, I have a feeling it’s all gonna fit together (and they’ll make it fit together!). I agree with Bill that maybe the two dead ducks will resurrect but use it to their advantage… until the island finds them out.
Great stuff!
March 29th, 2007 at 4:46 am
First of all, Frank:
Before N & P opened the Pearl hatch, the plane was still in the tree…. so there’s no continuity mystery….
Second of all… I love LOST and the more everybody nitpicks and complains about it I become more and more amused. Just shut up and watch the show, or …don’t. The term “jump the shark” is lame and over-played. Take 1 hour of your wednesday, watch the show you love and hope it makes it to 5 seasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it seems like the “cool” thing these days is to bash LOST. I feel sorry for people that think they are entitled to all the answers NOW. They will suffer greatly. The writers and producers and people like me want the story to last as long as it takes to tell. They are not going to rush it just because a few nitpickers are not pleased. So sit back and enjoy!
P.S. I need to know… What the hell is up with “Razzle Dazzle”??? Is Corvette somekind of Rainbow Brite Pole Dancing Superhero?
Gotta Love it!
March 29th, 2007 at 4:52 am
OK. Here it is. If this man is NOT Michael, who is he?
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1269-879.html
And is that Dr. Christian Shephard in the background?
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1269-826.html (I know it is not a good picture, but actually looks clearer on the TV screen).
A question for “Hey Bulldog”, Where did you see or hear about 108 spiders? I still have not found them.
March 29th, 2007 at 5:00 am
Fernando…
I think the quip about 108 spiders and 4 w/ dharma logos may have been a joke to bait the nitpickers….
March 29th, 2007 at 5:01 am
Fernando …. ‘hey bulldog’ was joking …=p
March 29th, 2007 at 5:01 am
I thought it was a really fun episode, very cool how they made things fit together. I especially liked when Paolo was first in the bathroom, and I said to myself, “Ah, that first episode with them is all of the sudden not so bad.” Now I really can’t wait to find out the ultimate fate of the diamond thieves.
frank, your problem with the timeline is off. They weren’t in there after Locke and Eko moved the plane because the plane hadn’t fallen yet because Boone hadn’t climbed up it. If you have problems with the episode, that’s fine, but at least give the writers credit for not getting it so fundamentally wrong.
March 29th, 2007 at 5:12 am
Well, there is another way they might come out of their grave. If you remember, they had to run the dog off once..I think the dog realizes they are not dead and will go back and dig them up…I mean at this point..anything is fair game
March 29th, 2007 at 5:22 am
ok, i didn’t read *ever* post here, but i don’t think this was covered - didn’t anybody notice the bit with vincent? the speculation has always been that vincent shows up only to foreshadow somebody’s death, right? well, what is vincent doing in last night’s ep? he’s pulling the shroud OFF of nikki and paulo, symbolically showing that they’re still alive. another tip of the hat by the writers, i guess.
ps - nikki in red bikini. yum.
March 29th, 2007 at 5:24 am
Carly–
Look a little deeper and you’ll see the continuity problem. How did Paolo get back into the Pearl? By that point, the plane had fallen, since the camera showed Jack in the Swan, so Paolo couln’t have gotten into the hatch. Unless it was after Locke and Eko moved the plane in ‘?’ … which of course was after Ben had been captured, so he couldn’t have been there when Paolo was. Or maybe it was after Ben escaped … except by that point Ms. Klugh had already put Ben’s plan into action to use Michael to attract Kate, Jack, and Sawyer, so the plan certainly shouldn’t have been a surprise to Juliet. That’s the continuity problem I was talking about.
And I’ve been watching the show since day 1, and have been really enjoying the current ‘2nd pod’ of episodes. What makes the show great is that it’s well-written, mysterious, has great characters, and is incredibly well thought-out. When I see an episode that, imo, is poorly written, and, as evidenced by the continuity mistake, was obviously poorly planned, I think that I have the right to say that I don’t like it. I hold Lost to high standards, and it usually lives up to them; it’s not a show that I want to just sit there watching with glazed eyes not thinking about what I’m seeing. The last thing that I want to see is for Lost to turn into The X-Files, a once-great show that faded into mediocrity.
Finally, as I mentioned in earlier posts, I have no problem with filler episodes that are more character than mystery episodes (like the VW episode, one of my favorites) … I just have a problem when they’re poorly done, just like I would if a mystery episode was poorly done.
March 29th, 2007 at 6:08 am
Josh–
Like I said, the screen showed Jack sitting in a chair in The Swan, so that scene had to take place after the plane fell…
March 29th, 2007 at 6:34 am
While I enjoyed this episode I will be glad when Lost get’s back to the story of the Island and the Others and their mysteries. Speaking of that, I wonder if Paolo summoned the spiders by thinking of them (a la the box that Ben was talking about in the last episode). He did have a look of concentration on his face as the spiders appeared and we did hear that wierd electronic noise.
Also, why was Paolo staring so intently at the sky (as if in a trance) just after the plane crashed, when Nikki finally finds him. Remember, she has to pull him away from staring fixedly at the sky. In the normal world that could be explained away by shock, but of course nothing is normal here. What did he see?
Paolo and Nikki will survive and we will definitely see more of Paolo. My guess is that he knows more than he has been sharing with anyone and it will be significant at some point in the future. Obviously he has been keeping secrets, which I found very annoying, plotwise.
-He’s been to the pearl hatch before it is officially discovered.
-He has a freaking walkie talkie!
-He sees Ben and Juliette, two complete strangers, hatching an evil plan concerning Jack, in a wierd underground surveilance bunker.
I kind of hope Jack beats him up at some point in the future…I mean, a few of those details could have really saved everyone some trouble.
March 29th, 2007 at 6:49 am
To Heather: I think the other spiders were “summoned” when Paulo smashed the spider that bit him, the sexual attaction scent was released that Artz had told Nikki about in a flashback. I’m with you about the unbelievable and unrealistic lack of communication between the characters sometimes, but then again, it’s a business that hopes to stretch out to at least 100 episodes — or more.
March 29th, 2007 at 7:25 am
For the continuity question, I’m confused. I need a timeline, I think. Did the plane fall onto the hatch, or did the plane fall and the next time we saw it, it was on the hatch? Couldn’t it be that: 1. N&P find hatch 2. L&B find and down plane 3. P returns to hatch, B&J enter and talk; when they all leave, someone with the Others returns and pushes plane onto the hatch 4. Ben captured/escapes 5. Locke et. al. return and move plane from hatch 6. All go down hatch.
I have not seen every episode of Lost, I admit, so I could have that wrong.
March 29th, 2007 at 7:25 am
Thanks Bill..I tried to post the same thing..but the blog…blocker got me for some unknown reason
March 29th, 2007 at 7:53 am
I have to admit this episode really pushed me over the edge. As a stand alone episode it was pretty good and ultimately entertaining, but when you place it into the bigger picture of the story it doesn’t make any sense.
I also caught the continuity error when Paolo was in the Pearl Station and Juliet and Ben enter to reveal their plan to get Jack to do surgery. They show the TV monitor with Jack and the other Losties already in the Swan station. But we know that they didn’t get into the hatch until AFTER the plane had already falled on top of the Pearl Station’s entrance. So are we to believe that Paolo was able to move the plane, go into the Pearl Station and hide the diamonds, come back up and then move the plane back over the entrance?
Another BIG thing that bothered me about this scene was the way the dialouge seemed to elude that the Others want/need to kidnap Walt had nothing to do with him being special. That is was simply their way of getting Michael to lead Jack/Kate/Sawyer to them. After all of Season 1 spent building Walt up to be special and the many references the Others made of Walt’s importance to just be explained way was disturbing.
I love this show and to see the writers/producers slipping frustrates me. And now that in the latest podcast Lindoff and Cuse admit to killing Nikki and Paolo off due to viewers dissatisfaction with them upsets me even more. Why bother giving them an episode to “close the loop” so to speak? We hadn’t invested any time getting to know them, but then they decide to finally give us an episode to show their importance, get us all interested in the characters, and kill them. Much like Shannon and Libby. Just as their characters were getting “juicy,” BAM, dead.
One the plus side it was nice to see Charlie finally admit to Sun what he did. She reaction was a little off. I’m sorry but if someone I trusted and was friends with revealed that they put a bag over my head, dragged me across the jungle and scared the be-jesus out of me, I’d be a tab bit more angry. Heck, even Sawyer got off easy. Like others have said though, I think Charlie may be coming to the end of his stay on the island. Although I think a bigger twist would be Claire dying because she is always with him. It would definitely open up the story to explore what will happen to Aaron now that she isn’t raising him. Could that play into the Ben=Aaron theory out there?
I know that my criticism may be premature. I’m not gonna stop watching the show. Like I said, I love it, so to all of you who will stay, just stop watching, please don’t. It’s just upsetting to see a once riviting show’s quality suffer.
March 29th, 2007 at 8:12 am
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but a fun Easter egg of sorts. In last week’s episode, “The Man From Tallahassee”, Locke is watching the episode of the tv series “Expose” when Peter Talbot knocks on the door. I remember originally hearing the line about “Cobra” last week and thinking Locke was watching an episode of “GI Joe”! LOL Then in last’s night’s episode we hear that same line come out of Nikki’s mouth. Interesting that Locke was watching that show and didn’t mention anything to Nikki when he met her on the island, especially when he noted to Charlie that he was a Driveshaft fan - so why would he be shy to bring this up to Nikki? Maybe he was too focused on her “assets” to recognize her face?
March 29th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Well, I’m definitely in the “not impressed” camp. I agree with Frank in that I don’t mind a “filler” if it is about characters I care about. Who cared about these characters? I love lost for throwing the preverbal monkey wrench into whatever speculation I have. When these two characters first appeared I immediately though, “Ahhh! Someone convenient to bump off.” It’s very much like the old Star Trek episodes where if someone is on deck that you don’t know, you can pretty well assume they are cannon fodder.
Now, I take it all back if this isn’t the end of our diamond thieves. I could see this as a possibility since there were several noted clues that could indicate this such as Locke’s comments about buried things and Vincent realizing they weren’t dead. Oh, and don’t forget the “smoke monster” making an “appearance”.
What I did like about the episode was explanation of some of the awkward things such as the toilet flush from the pearl hatch. I guess bottom line is that I hope there was more to this episode than just a chance to have a cast reunion party.
I’m a bit concerned that Ryan knew where the strip club was though. Jen, did you ask him about that?
March 29th, 2007 at 8:39 am
writerboy–
You’ve said everything that I’m feeling. I hadn’t heard that they killed off N&P because of fan reaction; you’re right, that’s troubling if it’s true, and it also means that there was no real plan for these characters. Maybe if they hadn’t been introduced so clumsily, the fans would have taken to them more. I’m also bothered a bit by the Sun/Charlie/Sawyer scenes. While I thought that the scenes were well-done, it felt like that was the end of that plotline. I mean, Sawyer set up this con, roped in Charlie to help, setting up what seemed at the time to be a new power structure on the island, and a new direction for Charlie. And that … didn’t happen. Things were back to normal within a few weeks. It always felt to me like that was a plot thread that they didn’t know what to do with, so it just kind of disappeared … and last night was the final wrapup — “Let’s close down this pointless plot thread while we’re closing the pointless N&P plot thread”. And while we’re at it, are they implying too that the Walt being special thread is now closed too … that he was really never wanted by The Others, that he really wasn’t special? I know that I’m really reading a lot into it, but, still … it just bothers me.
March 29th, 2007 at 9:00 am
I’m with Bulldog and Carly. If you haven’t been around from the beginning, and you’re finding that you don’t like the show anymore, just stop whining and go watch something else. That’s not necessarily directed at any one person who’s posted here; I just get sick of seeing “OMG that was so lame I am done” posts from the same people every week. I’ve stopped reading The Fuselage and various blogs because of that.
Having said that:
I wish they’d have either attempted to make Nikki and Paolo work or not have introduced them at all. I was frustrated when they killed off Libby because we knew she had to have an interesting story and they chose not to explore it. I kind of wish they’d never done the Tailies story arc because all but one of them is dead now and it feels like a whole lot of time and energy wasted.
The whole last scene was very “Kill Bill 2″. I don’t know what to think of that. I keep hoping Tarantino will direct an episode.
Frank: I don’t think we’re done with Sun/Charlie/Sawyer. Jin will find out. It may not happen this season, but that’s not over by a long shot. I’ll bet money on it.
March 29th, 2007 at 9:15 am
I really hope that you’re right about the S/C/S plot thread. I know that the important thing with any TV show is the journey and not the destination, but for a show that is so good about planning everything out and setting up this in-depth, complicated mystery, they suddenly, to me, seem to be developing a lot of plotlines that don’t go anywhere.
March 29th, 2007 at 9:25 am
It was an interesting episode with use of a format not typical of Lost episodes. The lack of continuity bugged the heck out of me. While I enjoyed seeing Artz again i could have done without seeing Shannon and Boone again! I find those two characters as annoying as Nikki and Paulo. An episode with all four of them was just too much!!!
I don’t think Sun/Sawyer/Charlie plot line is over with. I think there will be more things to come for Charlie & Sawyer than just a slap in the face.
March 29th, 2007 at 9:43 am
frank- About your continuity problem. Lostpedia has following excerpt in their synopsis that would explain your concern. “Ben and Juliet enter, thinking the door was left open by Tom. Ben tells Juliet to have Tom cover the hatch with the plane.”
So the Others actually moved the plane after Paulo exited the Pearl the first time. Which explains away the dumb luck required for the plane to have fallen directly on top of the hatch.
March 29th, 2007 at 10:04 am
Julie, I think you are wrong.
If you are right, that means there is another continuity error. Why? Because when Nikki filmed that Exposé episode (for the finale of season 4 of the show) Locke must have already been in the wheelchair. Remember he was, after all, in the wheelchair for four years!
I do think he was watching Exposé because of the Cobra comment we hear coming out of the TV, but it must have been the first season.
Jen, nobody else could have used better words to say what you did.
Peace.
March 29th, 2007 at 10:05 am
That’s interesting; I’ll have to check the TiVo when I get home. But, didn’t we SEE the plane land where it did? And, if the hatch was uncovered by the plane until Day 49, that would mean that B/L missed it when they came upon the plane in Deus Ex Machina (despite the fact that, when N/P came upon it, it wasn’t even remotely hidden), AND S/C missed it when they were looking for Aaron in Exodus, even though they must have been pretty much standing on top of it (although, I’ll admit, they were in a hurry and a bit distracted at the time!).
March 29th, 2007 at 10:14 am
maybe paolo saw the other plane crash? the one with ecko’s brother? But that would have had made noise…unless paolo noticed happening far away….maybe that is why he didn’t want to go in the plane to look? but then again…those bodies discovered were pretty bad off…unless a lot of time went by…….or since he doesn’t tell anyone about anything he could have watched the plane go down and kept the secret to himself?
anyway…i am still debating if I liked this episode. I do feel though if Locke had found nikki when she was saying “paralyzed” he would have gotten it right away….also the quote that Locke said “nothing stays buried on this island for too long” (or something like that) creeped me out when nikki and paolo “died” and then got buried alive (one of my worst fears..).
By the way…spiders sometimes symbolizes the soul..or in asia the spider as a soul freed from the body….spider has been also symbolized as the counsellor of the spreme diety…or also has a role of a seer. (this is all in the peguin dictionary of symbols which is handy to look up key motifs).
Diamonds…Plato discribes the world axis as being made of diamond. symbolizes the center. It can also be the symbol of universal sovereignty or incorruptibily and aboslute truth. (also from the same book).
There are a lot of stuff buried on the island besides those who died…the diamonds, the virgin mary statues…..I don’t know.
I also loved it when sawyer said “Who the hell is nikki?”
And nikki saying “ashes are evidence…let’s not poison ourselves”
I also like the newspaper section with the obituary called “This Life”
Also after that shoe scene….of how did that shoe get stuck…what was sawyer staring at when he answered hurley “nothing”
Why did nikki help Paolo “open the hatch” and then say no don’t go down?
I also found it cool that the tv monitor where ben watches jack is the number 5. It also looked like the number 28 when paolo turned on the walkie talkie.
Vincent tried to tell hugo and sawyer they are still ok…purposely uncovering them….and where did vincent come from again…and go?
Shouldn’t paolo have woken up first?
And again….buried alive thing just creeped me out…Again…love watching details.
March 29th, 2007 at 10:49 am
I don’t know if anyone noticed it, but when ben and juliet were in the pearl, ben was wearing the same thing he was wearing when he got caught by rousseau’s net. i’m juliet could have released him, something is going on there.
March 29th, 2007 at 11:02 am
I was struck by the parallels between this episode and Tom Stoppard’s “Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead” (see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100519/) in which two minor characters stumble through the classic “Hamlet”…
–J
March 29th, 2007 at 11:15 am
It may be that Nikki and Paolo will come back in the much-hyped Zombie Episode referred to by Lindelof and Cuse in the Official Lost Podcast. I thought this was a good episode if not a little clunky. I liked finding out N & P’s backstory. My guess is that Paolo may have contacted the Others at some point or may have been an Other plant all along…we don’t really know how he hooked up with Nikki to begin with.
Looking forward to a little “cat fight” action next week with Kate and Juliette. Meow!
March 29th, 2007 at 11:23 am
How about the whole thing when Hurley was talking about the TV show Exposé. Hurley explained that Mr. LaShade turned out to be the Cobra in the show and how The Cobra was shrouded in mystery for four years. He seemed like a good guy but was really evil.
Does this mean that in Season 4 we’ll learn that Jacob “the great man” who we know is the evil head of the Others is actually one of the losties we’ve known for years. Could one of our intrepid band of heroes actually be Jacob?
If so who?
March 29th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Just a quick thought about the timeline issue that everyone is discussing. Why was only one TV monitor on, and on static at that? As Nikki noted when she went to the hatch, ‘what about all the other monitors?’ Ben and Juliet didn’t seem concerned about the other monitors, and Ben made it a point to put the one monitor back to static instead of turning it off. Is it possible, given the already existing time-loop idea, that the monitor he is looking at is broadcasting from the future somehow? Given that we already know that the Swan station had something to do with the time-loop and given that the Swan monitor was the only one Ben and Juliet looked at, it may be a possibility. Stranger things have happened on ‘Lost’. This would also start to explain why B&J had to trek across the island to see Jack…. if Ben knows he is going to be in the Swan hatch (with foreknowledge of what will happen because of the time loop), but isn’t yet there. Ethan may have provided them with knowledge about Jack’s profession, and now B&J wanted to see what he looked like in order to be able to identify him.
Anyway, that’s just one crazy explanation. I doubt that CC and DL would have made that much of a timeline error. I can’t wait to see what the explanation is for this one. I’m with Ryan - this is going to go down as a ‘classic’ episode; one of the quirky ones that gives a break to the serious part of the storytelling.
PS: Ryan, in your last summary paragraph before the Notes & Notions portion, did you mean ‘Tom’ instead of ‘Ethan’? Or am I missing something here (admittedely I can’t think nearly as hard about the intircacies of the plot as most here - it makes my head hurt!
March 29th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
I only caught Bits of this week but will watch tape tonight.
just some random thoughts:
-”Peter Talbot”-Was that not the name of the Wolfman Lon Chaney, No it was “LARRY Talbot”.
-Where did Hurley get the Shovels?
-Vincent is getting Fat
-Jin will Totally go off on Charlie and James.
-With all these Dead People and Animals(PolarBear)
Ethan,Libby,Pilot,N+P,Boonie, shannon,Marshal Dude, RogerWorkman,AnaLucia,Mikhal,BlackLadyMikhalShot,Eko,three Guys Eko killed,Two guys Ana Lucia Killed, GuyJulietshot,Eko’sBro,JacksDad,MrScience,Artz (All those that died in crash) a Zombie Island Episode ..Even if it is a Dream, will be Awesome!
I will have a more insightful comment Friday,sorry double OR/ER shift..
…but I did see very End and beginning of “Expose” this week as I checked to be sure I got whole episode..
don’t be Hatin’
March 29th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Oh my God!!! all i dreamed about last night after the episode was spiders and being buried alive aaah!!! i wish lost wasn’t on right before i went to bed
it was great when it was on at nine because i had an hour to debrief and get it out of my head
oh well great episode!
March 29th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
This episode may be filler - or not. There is much speculation among the losties about who carried out the ‘murders’ of Paolo and Nikki and, I suspect, will set into motion suspicions among them (there was already some arguing about that - monster, Others, Sawyer) that may set into motion something we cannot yet know. I thought it was rather fun, actually, especially to get a sense of perspective of the time they have been on the island (80 days to them, 2 1/2 years to us) and what has happened in that time.
March 30th, 2007 at 7:25 am
I think John’s comment that “Nothing stays buried on this island” fore shadows what will be coming for Nikki and Paulo.
March 30th, 2007 at 7:41 am
Nadia–Also after that shoe scene….of how did that shoe get stuck… Nikki took it off Paolo and threw it…
Mike–Ben was wearing an orange polo and khakis when he was caught by Rousseau…
March 30th, 2007 at 7:46 am
Also, speaking of which…I wanna know when we are going to see waht happened to Henry Gale, the real balloon pilot! I want to see this flashback and who killed him! I also wonder what happened to everyone living in the caves? Did they all move out after the hatch was discovered? just a couple of old thoughts…
March 30th, 2007 at 8:25 am
First Observation… dang! some pretty hot ladies on the Island. Kate, Shannon, and now Nikki! Wonderful eye-candy for us guys… and of course there is Sawyer et al for the women viewers. Great casting job!
Second Observation.. if what we are seeing are variations of Time-Loops, this would easily explain time continuity errors (such as.. was the plane on the hatch or in the tree?). This would also explain why Sawyer is confused about not remembering Nikki (who are YOU?). In some loops, she’s there.. in others.. not there.
Third Observation.. There’s “something” about Vincent.. he was awfully smart to pull the sheet off of the semi-dead bodies. I think that Vincent is worth watching VERY carefully in future episodes.
Fourth Observation.. Locke is right.. nothing stays buried very long by the beach. I expect hot Nikki to be back, short shorts, halter top, and all!(thank you in advance, Lost Producers)
Fifth Observation.. the Island has electricity, lights, modern toilets, a sewer system, water pressure, refridgerators, fresh food, video cameras, telecommunication, a running VW bus.. almost seems as if the Island isn’t as remote as we are being led to believe. I’m starting to think “Truman Show” in addition to “Groundhog Day”
Last Observation.. watching this episode was a PURE guilty pleasure (proably like watching Expose)… i felt bad for enjoying something so much that others would call cheesy.. yet, I enjoyed the creativity, cleverness, and the fun that went into putting this diversion episode together. Kudos to the Lost product staff for being brave enough to constantly take creative risks! I’m hooked more than ever.
March 30th, 2007 at 9:07 am
Okay I saw Whole episode 3 times..
-Again WHERE did Shovel(s) come from.
-Nikki and Paola ARe EVEL.
killed Zuckerman and at least Nikki was willing to Kill again for Diamonds..Yuck!1
Eye candy or Not I hope they Stay Buried…..{but they won’t} Vincent will Dig them UP!!!!!
Nopw the Losties Will evetually share ALL the Diamonds….Plus maybe more Treasure from Island…
I think Poor Locke will remain on Island either as Corpse or CastAway.
the Airport Scene from Kocke’s Vision Quest Slowed Who Will Make it and Who Will Not.
-Still Think that James..Pocketed a few Choice Diamonds…as a Back-up.
-We will see Billy Dee Williams again….
I hope , Lando we still Love Ya’ Man!
–Nikki and Paolo have a good and Better chance of Surviving due to their Slowed Metabolism and Body Functions …till a Creepy ,,..”Night of the Living Dead’-like walk down the Beach…..
,,Perhaps long enough for them to really kill each other…Too Intense..”I thought I would Lose You…Nikki” ……….yucko!!
…
Dig Vincent DIG!!!!!!
March 30th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Carley….i know nikki threw the shoe…i was just wondering what sawyer was looking at after they found the shoe…he was sort of looking beyond the trees….i thought….
March 30th, 2007 at 11:55 am
My favorite RAZZLE DAZZLE moments!
Paulo would hide diamonds in the water tank of a working toilet on the Island
Nikki would knowningly eat out of a basket of poisoned food
Nikki could paralyze Paulo by throwing a single poisonous spider at him
Nikki would be attacked by other poisonous spiders, which quickly leave when Sawyer, Hurley and the gang arrive
Nikki would be smart enough to know that a high school science teacher could draw projection maps of where things would land when falling out of a broken airplane
The science teacher found enough empty jars to keep his insects in
There were plenty of shovels to go around for everyone
Ben (or someone) would leave a walkie-talkie behind
Paulo would watch a stranger (Ben) turn on a TV set to watch Jack, and not act surprised nor mention it to anyone
What I can’t believe is this..
Sawyer would toss $8 million of diamonds into a shallow grave and walk away (so I suspect he will be back)
March 30th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Tawl re your 5th observation: I have previously speculated that they may be in some kind of “holo deck” a la Star Trek TNG where participants are in a totally lifelike and believeable yet artificial world in the middle of some sort of giant lab.
March 30th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Not sure what to think about this episode… kinda like/hate it.
Am still having a hard time believing that Niki and Paulo were “there the whole time” and lately have been thinking more and more about the theories I’ve heard regarding implanted memories. Could the flashbacks from today be new memories being freshly implanted?
March 31st, 2007 at 3:30 am
Nadia…I guess Sawyer was looking at the mound of fresh earth where Nicki had buried the diamonds?
March 31st, 2007 at 7:10 am
Fernando - I just watched the episode again last night and realized that, yes, it must have been a Season 1 episode that Locke was watching because the timeline does not make sense otherwise. Plus, Hurley was suprised at reading the ending of the Expose script, so it really was filmed recently. So there you go. But still a fun connection.
March 31st, 2007 at 12:02 pm
The number of postings here reminds me of an old quip:
Opinions are like [armpits], everyone’s got ‘em, and they all stink.
I didn’t love the episode, but I thought it was fun and kinda kooky. I give credit to the writers and producers for realizing that the Nikki and Paolo characters were just not going to work — you can clearly add new characters (see the Tailies and Desmond and all the Others), but you can’t just make Important New Survivors(tm) without upsetting fans — and choosing to correct their mis-step rather than subjecting us all to a failed experiment. Let’s also give them credit for playing off our attitudes in characters like Sawyer (”who the hell is Nikki?”) and the meta-theater of a gimmicky, cheesy episode that just so happens to kick off with a character on a gimmicky, cheesy show (reminded me of “V.I.P.”) involved in a gimmicky, cheesy story. A nice wink, wink, nudge, nudge to the fans. And it was well done and did make me appreciate both the characters of Nikki and Paolo and the actors who played them a bit more.
I was NOT a fan of the callbacks, which looked as though they had been digitally edited. I WAS a big fan of the callbacks, however, with the nods to the obsessive fans (including pretty much anyone who would spend time reading this site) such as Boone looking for the pen.
Just hard to argue with addition by subtraction.
March 31st, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Dude there is NO freakin time LOoOP!!!
April 2nd, 2007 at 3:58 am
Kopytko.. just curious if you are joking or not. But if you are serious, and the facts of Lost clearly dismiss the idea of a Time-Loop, could you tell us which facts push the Lost story away from some sort of Time Distortion.
Desmond’s “Flashbacks” episode are the start of my proof that the producers/writers are indeed messing around with Time. And if this is true, that would explain a lot of inconsistencies on the Island, and the advanced knowledge of Locke (gettnig explosives from the Flame) and Ben (knownig how everyone is going to react).. in addition to Desmond.
Sure, there could be another explaination that does not involve Time Distortion, but (for me) everything is pointing in that direction.
(To anyone out there), what would keep you from believing that a Time-Loop is involved in some way on the Island? Anyone?
So seriously, can anyone point me away from
April 2nd, 2007 at 5:22 am
“The Pigs are Walking”
The Pigs are Walking”
Leslie Artz (Mr. Jr. High Science)
a great character actor, a shame he blew up.
OR DID HE?!?
They Hurley Locke and crewe, Thought he was Blown completely away……….
Razzle Dazzle,it could have been a rouse.
Artz Discovered 8-9 NEW Species of insects ,
This makes our Island even mor unique than previous believed, kinda like Galopagos Islands Isolated and hidden.
and I truely believe that He(Artz), Bai Ling and and DAVE will return as Feature Players…. Okay Bai ling is wishful thinking,you got me.
But the other Two….
“the Pigs are Walking..
“See you in another Life”
and again DIG Vincent Dig!!
April 2nd, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Tawl the answer is simple, there are NO facts that push the Lost story towards this sort of time distortion. Imo Desmonds flashbacks aren’t a good confirmation of this theory because he obviosly made a change by saving Charlies life which obviously would broke the loOp if there was any. If you do
a change in a loop you’re breaking it right? Desmond saves Charlie and the story goes… it’ doesn’t go back so he has to save him again at the same time which he did before! Is that a loOp?The timeline in the show is very clear so i really don’t know why somebody could belive that someting is going over and over again and we are watching a diferent timeline in every episode. Blah! After hatch explosion Desmond gain ability to percept time diferent than other people or maby he always was this way, he can see the possibiities but what it has to do with any time lOop???
Locke didn’t know about the explosives until he found them, Ben’s knowledge of peoples hearts and minds doesn’t come from knowing the future. he’s very smart thats all, what it has to do with a time loop? The island is full of mystery but i don’t think any time lO_op s are part of it.
ps. sorry for my english
April 3rd, 2007 at 3:37 am
Kopytko (and Tawl)
I totally agree with Kopytko’s idea. If there ever was a time LoOp, it was broken the moment “Desmondo” saved Charlie.
And I see that Kopytko’s refutation of the Time LoOp Theories deals more with logic and semantics than with anything else. I have interpreted other people’s postings about the time loOp as theories about Time Travel. And that is a different theory, which, BTW really disappoints me for two reasons: One, I expect the whole truth about Lost to be something much more interesting and fascinating. Second, I still want to believe what the producers told us back in season one: “there is no Time Travel involved in this show”. If it happens that NOW there is some sort of time travel, I would really like for them (the producers) to come up and explain how it is happening, and why they changed their minds.
Peace.
April 3rd, 2007 at 6:47 am
Kopytko, thank you for taking the challenge to disprove the Time Loop theory. You make clear, concise, and intelligent points.
Here are a couple of specific reasons why I think there is “pre-knowledge of the future” on at the Island, which quite possibly means a Time Loop.
Locke knew where the trap-door in the Flame Station was (under the carpet). How did he know that, and why was that the first place he looked? Doesn’t it seem as if Locke had been there before?
Ben risked his life to walk into the Losties camp (he was shot in the back with an arrow) with confidence, almost as if he knew what would happen and how to resolve any dangerous situation. Why would Ben walk into a dangerous spot unless he “knew” was that possibilities were? Why would Ben lie about who he was, yet point the Losties to where the balloon and the bodies were (of the real Henry Gale) and allow the Losties to discover his lie? Ben has a plan, but this plan requires a lot of knowledge about the future and what everyone else is going to do, otherwise all you could say is that Ben is completely reckless and an incredible risk-taker as a leader (I vote for “future-knowledge”).
Also, Charlie has been “saved” by Desmond at least 3 times, maybe more (the lightening strike, almost drowning saving Claire, and falling into the ocean trying to capture a bird for Claire).
Remember when Desmond told Charlie that he doesn’t think he can keep saving Charlies life again and again? Why would he say that, unless the Time Loop has repeated at least 3 times, maybe more.
Also.. wasn’t it odd that Sawyer would say multiple times to Nikki.. “who are you?” Don’t you think that Sawyer (and any other man) would notice Nikki in the short-shorts and halter-top? Unless.. sometimes she’s in the current time-loop and sometimes she’s not.
A Time Loop doesn’t mean time travel (which would mean jumping to new places in time). The Time Loop could would mean that time is circling, and just maybe the Island is a center of all reality and time, the place to jump in and out of the loop.
What do you think, Kopytko, Fernando.. anyone?
April 3rd, 2007 at 8:48 am
Tawl, you are way overthinking. Take a deep breath. Remember that Lost is a fictional story. It may seem unbelievable that Ben could do what he did. It would appear that Ben is the ultimate manipulater, that there is no way he could so accurately predict everyone’s emotional tendencies. But, you must suspend reality and just accept that, for the sake of the show, that Ben is just a really good manipulater. As for Sawyer not remembering Nikki, that’s all inside jokes, meta, wink wink, call it whatever you want. It’s the writers saying “yeah, we know it’s a little far fetched that these characters have been in the background this whole time, so let’s poke fun at this.”
If the Lost producers/writers ever resorted to Time loop or time distortion or time travel or any thing related then all of their hard work over the past 3 or 4 years would immediately be discredited by the majority of Lost fans world-wide.
The sooner everyone accepts minor timeline inconsistencies (no one’s perfect, this isn’t real life) and enjoys Lost for what it is — the smartest, most interactive show ever created — the more we will continue to be in island bliss.
Can’t wait for tomorrow night!!!
April 3rd, 2007 at 9:26 am
I Think that NorCal Matt summed up what I was about to reply to Tawl.
But also, I was “overthinking” trying to come up with “evidence” to demonstrate that there cannot be a time LoOp, and I came up with the very existence of Alex and her growing up on the island being raised by The Others. Time LoOp, in Tawl’s terms, means a cicling, a pernnial repetition of the same events. If there was a LoOp, how come time has actually passed for Alex and she has been able to grow? We would have to consider the “length” of the LoOp, then and decide which is the starting point and how far back or ahead does it extend to.
Ben as the perfect manipulator seems to possess future foreseeing abilities; but I also want to believe that he can anticipate other people’s reactions given the fact that he manipulates them, he knows them very well deep inside (how and why he knows them is a big mystery), and he uses that knowledge to manipulate them and make them believe they are doing things because it was their idea (He said it himself in Exposé, and Alex said it in The Man From Tallahasee). He is a great con artist, the ultimate villain.
Sawyer might have “noticed” Nikki before (he never really flirted with Shannon or anyone other than Kate and Ana Lucia), but notice the entire context of when he says “who are you?” / “who the hell are you?” and you’ll understand he is being sarcastic, sort of meaning “do I know you? Why are you talking to me?”, with the kind of high school attitude we all experienced as teenagers. He is just being mean and rude to her, at the same time that his words represent our voice jokingly asking “where were you the last two seasons of the show”.
Desmond is the only one that has “flashes” of the future, but we still do not know why or how this is happening. These flashes are NOT an alternate reality, a parallel universe, a different dimension or a time LoOp; they are just “flashes”; think of deja-vu in terms of pre-knowledge of the future, just like the one the Precogs from the movie Minority Report have. It is just a flash from the future.
This Time LoOp discussion is really interesting and enjoyable. But I agree with NorCal Matt when he says we should just enjoy the ride and see where it takes us at its own pace. I would not be too concerned with the time LoOp challenge. I also think there are other interesting issues (and perhaps more relevant to the big island mysteries) such as Smokie (and/or The Magic Box), Christian’s dead body, Penny’s search team, and what happened to Michael and Walt. It is my hope that the remaining of the season will explore these lose ends.
April 3rd, 2007 at 11:42 am
Tawl…not coming down on you because like you I am a LOST freak and I am the first to overthink this stuff…but in addition to what NorCal Matt and Fernando said about this I wanted to point out that when Locke knew something was under the rug I thought perhaps it was because he saw Patchy’s cat clawing at the rug…as if trying to get down there….another animal with Vincent’s brain….
April 3rd, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I think people are getting hung up on semantics on the word ‘loop’. Whether or not there is a loop happening, Desmond’s ‘return’ to Penny after turning the key in the Swan hatch did not seem to be any kind of premonition or ‘flash of the future’. His ‘flashback’ scenes showed his reaction as having traveled back to a place he was before being on the island. Contrary to the premonitions or flashes he gets now that he is ‘back’ on the island, the return to Penny/’the Oracle’/Charlie in London didn’t appear as flashes. Perhaps they were simply his brain playing tricks after receiving a concussion after the implosion, but that would still not fall into the category of ‘deja-vu’ or the types of flashes he now sees (eg. regarding Charlie’s demise).
I think that CC and DL have hinted a few times that ‘time’ on the island is not the same as time in ‘the rest of the world’. FWIW. Personally, I’m guessing the time issue is just one of many of the secrets/treasures/gifts of this special island our Losties have found themselves on.
April 4th, 2007 at 7:03 am
I appreciated everyone’s rebuttal to the Time-Loop explaination. I very well could be “over-thinking” the answer about what is happening on the Lost island. I’m taking a deep breath , and getting ready for tonight’s episode, waiting to see if the Loop theory will still hold up tonight, or get washed aside by new evidence.
One thing for sure, Lost is never predictable.. that’s why I’m completely hooked.
April 4th, 2007 at 10:00 am
You’re a good sport Tawl. Seemed like we were ganging up on you there. I find there are two types of Lost theorists. Men of science or men of science fiction. You seem to be in the science fiction camp. I’m in the men of science camp. Of course, I must accept the island has supernatural characteristics, but I deep down want a scientific explanation for everything. Lately though, I can’t see any science-based theory that will explain the smoke monster/manifestation scenes. As each episode comes and goes, I’m starting to think there can be no other explanation but that the smoke monster has manifestation abilities.
April 4th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
So ,Tonite’s episode is all about this stupid “CatFight”
Kate and Juliet,
In the Freakin’ Rain. At least that is what ABC is promoing.
Is that really needed?
If I may predict, it too is a set-up by Ben he is playing them off each other to see which Alpha female prevails.
It also appears that our man Hurly is taking more of a leadership tact, Refreshing and nice to see him fill the Vacuum
left by Locke,Jack, Sayid, and Kate…It would be nice to see Rose Emerge as Island Earth-Mother -Ultra -AlphaMommaFemale.
Sawyer is holding something back,either that of he is the most honest player on the Island, as he “yam what he Yam”
April 6th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Cuedblu, I like your explanation. I think it is entirely possible that the Desmond “flashback” episode could just as easily be a dream or a hallucination. It’s a nice mechanism as to how to bring Penny back into the story and makes for entertaining TV. His “deja vu” with Charlie could simply be him *thinking* he knows that Charlie will get hurt and trying to keep him safe.
It may also be that Desmond for some reason thinks that by saving Charlie he will break a loop of some kind. (Think “Groundhog Day.”) But that each time he saves Charlie, nothing changes. So maybe he just keeps searching for the “right thing” to do. Desmond seems to think there’s a loop, but that doesn’t mean there is.
I agree with the folks above that it would be just too convenient of an explanation and an “easy way out.”
One final thought. There is a scientific principle called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. It states that by measuring a particle you affect the particle, so you can never truly measure how it would have been had it not been affected. It’s similar to the pop culture notion of the “butterfly effect.” Des and Charlie may be enacting something like this… it doesn’t mean it’s a time loop, it just means that they attribute greater meaning to even their trivial actions than there might truly be. And Des’s flashback seems to hint that there is NO “butterfly effect” — no matter what you do, you will hit the same outcome. It may be more a lesson in futility than a time loop. (Don’t forget, once Des learned that he brought down the plane — which was just before he turned the key in the season 2 finale — was when he developed his “premonitions.” He seems to place a lot of weight on everything having a reason and leading to an outcome. He may be a bit of a nutter regarding this.)
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:45 pm
can someone pleeeeeeeeeeeeease tell me the name of the song that nikki pole dances 2 in her”expose” tv programme, iv bn lukin 4 it everywhere but i hav nooooooooo idea wot it is called and reeeely wanna download it. if anyone knows wot it is pleeeeeeeeeease lemme me kno, will luv u 4 it!!!! xx