Trans 2010-02-21: “The Substitute” (Episode 6-04)


This edition of “The Transmission” covers “The Substitute,” the fourth hour of Season 6. We share our thoughts, then turn it over to “You All Everybody,” our brilliant listeners. After a new track from The Others LOST Band, we report on the last week of production in the “Forward Cabin.” Photos of the “temp agency” office are here. Spoiler photos from Matt and Jill are here.

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  • 0:00:18 Introduction
  • 0:01:15 Recap: “LOST” in Eight Minutes
  • 0:07:25 Reaction & Analysis
  • 0:31:31 Feedback: You All Everybody
  • 1:14:48 “A Growing Darkness” by The Others LOST Band
  • 1:18:59 Spoilers: The Forward Cabin
  • 1:28:11 Closing

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36 Responses to Trans 2010-02-21: “The Substitute” (Episode 6-04)

  1. Mark B says:

    Thanks Ryan and Jen ….

  2. Joel from Australia says:

    My 2 cents on the flash-sideways:
    The LA X events occur following S6, think of them as an epilogue.
    This would then mean that there is a reset set, but rather than being after jughead in the S5 finale, the reset is following the events of S6.

  3. ShannyMac3T0 says:

    Dear Ryan & Jen,
    You make Monday’s at my pitiful job seem amazing! The hard part is waiting till tomorrow to listen! ty for all the hard work.

  4. Robert B says:

    Listening to your podcast as I type. Wanted to make a theory and an observation. The theory is the boy in the woods in Fake Lock as a previous incarnation of himself. Because he “killed” Jacob, he now has blood on his hands. I say “killed” because as the boy said, he can’t kill him. Him being Jacob. Jacob knows this and that is why he allowed Ben to stab him without defending himself at all. My observation is in regard to Kate not being on the wall. You guys have said, as well as several callers, that Kate is not on the wall. I disagree. We may not have been shown Kates name, but we also weren’t shown the complete walls all the names on them. Just because we didn’t see it doesn’t mean it wasnt there. I think once it was pointed out that there were many many names on the wall, that it is unwise to assume that Kates name wouldn’t be on the wall as well. Take care

  5. Vol says:

    Regarding the sound. I am not 100% sure, but I think the added sound in “What Kate Does” and “The Substitute” during the transition is the sound of the drill we saw in the finale of season 5. You can hear it again in the “LA X” episode, just after the “LOST” logo appears. (Which is just after we see the island under water).
    So, I believe the flash sideways are connected to the sound of that drill.
    Which might suggest that Jack and the others changed the future. (We don’t know how because I also believe that bomb did not detonate.)
    I think something else did happened, something we don’t know yet because the authors didn’t give us enough information.

  6. Rey says:

    I did not go through all the episode comments, but maybe somebody already thought of this. What if the flash sideways is not because of the bomb going off, but is instead because Jacob was killed? What if him being killed somehow negated all the ‘meddling’ he did in people’s lives and sideways flashes are how things turn out without Jacob?

  7. James says:

    Just a couple of theories –

    MIB is trapped in lockes body because jacob has died and therefore he can not shift bodies other than smoky now.

    The lists that Ben etc have been gathering are from MIB(in the cabin) not Jacob therefore the kate and jack not being on it is not related to Jacob.

    Lastly an old one – Ben was healed as a youngster in the spring – How did he get a tumour ?

    Lastly Locke stops when describing what he has been doing while away for a week and just says it was personal. Could he have been on the island and is now happy he is not dead.

    My head hurts.

  8. Carol from Boston says:

    @Jesse – I agree with your theory re: the candidates and free will and joining sides. Makes a lot of sense.

    Still not sure why the numbers work the way they do.

    I believe the cave belongs to both MIB and Jacob, it looks like their meeting place, maybe they even agreed on the candidates together and made the list together and work against each other to claim them.

    Where does Dharma even come into this? Why were they brought to the island?

  9. Dave WR says:

    I really loved the idea about the flash-sideways might be what WILL happen at the climax of their stories. Plus you played the addition of the creaky wood but what if that represents Saywer’s flashback from S1? I distinctly remember when Sawyer was hiding under his bed the foot walks into view and all you hear is the creaking of the floor.

    I wonder if they will continuously add little bits of people’s old flashbacks as audio cues as to where we are in the new timeline? Just a thought, again love the podcast!

  10. Abby says:

    I want to share something from the LOST series pilot (part two) that while intriguing then, has even more meaning now as we begin season 6. In the scene John Locke is playing backgammon on the beach by himself when Walt wonders up to him. The intriguing part of the conversation is when John tells Walt about backgammon.

    John: Backgammon is the oldest game in the world. Archeologist found sets when they excavated the ruins of Mesopotamia, 5000 years old. That’s older than Jesus Christ.

    Walt: Did they have dice and stuff?

    John: *Nods head yes* but these dice are made of plastic and theirs were made of bone.

    Walt: Cool

    John: Two players, two sides, one is light, and one is dark. – Long pause – Walt, do you wanna know a secret?

  11. Steven in Bathurst says:

    I agree about the flash-sideways being post-S6 on-island story. The neck is a bit of a giveaway actually (since at the moment Jack’s cut neck makes no sense). I also think that the turbulence they experienced is the moment when timelines changed, which I believe is why Desmond suddenly appears next to Jack. He isn’t on the plane before the turbulence because it is the old timeline. With the turbulence, histories change and, voila, Desmond appears.

    After the Kate episode last week, there was much talk about MiB’s name, which will probably be important since they are being so coy with it at the moment. My out there theory is that his name is also Jacob. Jacob and MiB are two sides of the one entity. MiB’s need to find a loophole isn’t so much about finding a way around the ‘rules’ but finding a way to negate the laws of being. This theory may not explain much about the plot but I think it works on a metaphorical level regarding the overall theme of the story. It is about the light and dark in all of us.

    Finally, I like the theory about Kate possibly being a random, unknown element in the battle against MiB, hence her name seemingly not appearing on the wall. If that is the case, don’t be surprised if her number is 1 and she will be the one to ultimately take over Jacob’s role on the island.

  12. Joop says:

    @ Robert B
    You’re right that Kate’s name could be on the wall and we just didn’t see it. What I’m wondering is why she is not included in the core group of numbers that has been a major mythology of the show since the first season. Why were we shown seven people touched (eight if you count Ilana) and only six with corresponding numbers?

  13. Rich in Cleveland says:

    Kudos for snagging the creaking sound effect. I’m going to incorporate it into a theory I’ve been proposing for awhile. The sound effect is that of an ancient door, possibly to the magic box or to the passage home. “Open the door!” is a phrase repeated so often it would be pointless to catalogue them all. I predict it will prove a significant component of Lost’s end game.

    Ryan mentioned a missed opportunity with Rose. I thought they seriously missed one with Sawyer’s line that he was just going to get his pants. What they should have written was that he needed to go get his SHOES!

  14. Yann From France says:

    @steven: Cindy gave 1bottle to Jack before the turbulance… time had change way before the turbulance. Kate will be 108 is my guess.
    @joop: As Hurley said a numberous time: “the numbers are bad!”. They represent the end of the world and needed to be changed. Kate will save the show eventually (and that’s why Carlton was so upset that people didn’t like her episode… she is the candidate). Jacob wore glove when he saw Ilana.

  15. Yann From France says:

    @Rich: you know it does sound like a door… but it sounds like a closing door! Like the closure we are seeing now!
    @Ryan: am I paul from france? I will try to sum up my theory more coherently then… 😀
    Biggest mistery now: Where is Vincent? With Christian?
    My “thud” theory: Christian on Island!
    I love Jerry’s point! Watch “White Rabbit” before the next episode (Christian, Adam and Eve, Who is Jack… just a great episode anyway)!!!

  16. Robert says:

    @Joop. Based on what Flock said, I took him to saying that everyone on that wall was touched by Jacob at some point in their lives and brought to the island. Like when he said to Jacob that Jacob brought the ship to the island in last years finale. Everyone on that wall was a candidate. Thus they were all brought by Jacob and touched by Jacob. Not just the ones they showed us being touched

  17. Yann From France says:

    I sais that as a crackpot theory but I tell you now: The one that will put a white rock on the scale will be the new protector! And when you have something to fix (even a scale) who you gonna call? (not Ghostbuster!)

  18. greenberry says:

    I love that Kate will “save” the show — I still believe in her — it does make sense since she is always hell-bent on saving everyone (her mother, Sawyer, Claire, Ben, etc.)

  19. steve says:

    @Abby – I did a rewatch too and wondered about that scene too. I wondered if Locke was possessed at the backgammon moment, but it doesn’t seem out of the question that he said what he said if he was not possessed. But a little later, that creepy scene with the orange in the mouth. I tend to think I’m overthinking it, but it’s in the back of my head.

    Also, when Nadiya was killed, she said, take me home, just like island Locke wants to go home.

    There was another scene where someone mentioned kharma, I think it was Claire.

    These recurring themes, kharma, returning home, black vs white, make me wonder if the writers really did have it all mapped out. Who knows. A couple of years after the show is over, I’d pay for a fly on the wall book about how the whole show was conceived and who had his hand on what, but then, I’d doubt the authenticity of that book too.

  20. steve says:

    Another thing I noticed is so many scenes flash me back to Raiders of the Lost Ark, Illana, the ash, Indiana Jones, switching the bag of dust, the temple and especially the music. The string quartet tune sounds alot like the music that played when Jones was in the temple, finding the location of the ark.

  21. Joop says:

    @ Robert
    Yeah, I guess I was over estimating the significance of the numbers corresponding with names. There is no reason to assume that if Kate’s name is on the wall, that she is any less likely a candidate than any of the others. The numbers could just be as random as any other appearance, like the soccer jerseys for instance.

  22. carmel says:

    hey guys. i think “you can’t kill him” still refers to the killing of Jacob. this is why MIB is stuck SINCE than and he might not be able to turn to the smoke monster in the boy’s presence thus the unique Lock feel of “don’t tell me why i can’t do”…. but everything is indeed confusing since MIB assumes Ben’s role and we can’t know anymore what’s real.

  23. Mirepoix in Mtl says:

    Interesting theory – I like very much the idea that killing Jacob really changed a lot of people lives since a long time
    However, even if a lot of things have changed positively for most of the characters, some things remained the same
    Kate wanted for murder
    Locke paralised
    Jack father died in Australia
    Rose still got cancer

    I had a flash regarding Ilana
    Could it be that she was having a change of face/identity in the Siberian field hospital ?
    Then, who was she previously ?
    Is it possible that Jacob had revived Nadia and fixed her ?

    Then could Kate’s name be on the wall, but that Austen is not her real name ? Her father would be someone else…

    I still believe that this 2004 course-corrected story will bring them on the A316 again and the loop will be completed
    Then again, the Island is submerged…

  24. Audrey W. says:

    Hey Ryan and Jen!
    Long time listening first time commenter.
    There’s been discussion about whether Sun or Jin is the Kwon candidate. I just want to point out that there is a third Kwon: their child. With all the importance surrounding children in LOST I think it’s not unreasonable to believe that it may be the baby Kwon that Jacob is interested in.
    Thank you for the wonderful podcast every week!

  25. Ben Mc says:

    Has nobody asked the most important question of all?

    WHY is Hugo wearing a RED shirt? (thinking… star trek)

  26. Joop says:

    @Ben Mc
    I was thinking it would be cool if the ones in the alternate time line wore sashes and goatees.

  27. ShannyMac3T0 says:

    Podcast was great as usual! I think the kid in the jungle was a young Jacob not Aaron as I first thought. I just watched The lie (my dvr is set to take any lost ep’s and this was randomly on there) and in it Sayid upon waking up and choking jack briefly does the exact same thing he did upon waking up in the temple “what happened”. It made me think when they are unconscious they are somewhere else, a different time line? not sure… I just know that everything is repeating itself and it makes me think of Faraday saying how the island is a record. A record is a circle, which makes me think that Season One happened after Season 6? I’m rambling…….

  28. Steven in Bathurst says:

    ShannyMac3T0, that is a fascinating thought. What if the flash-sideways are not the end of the story but the beginning? Disparate strangers in random meetings (on the plane, Rose and Locke at the employment agency, Kate and Claire in the taxi) being called upon to stop the destruction of the island by resetting time to when they were on Flight 815 and crashing on the island to save it. Or, to further complicate things, what if the flash-sideways are both the end of the story AND the beginning, an ontological paradox/timeloop just like the compass? Mmm, I think my head just exploded.

  29. soko says:

    A plane is found underwater- the losties are on the island

    The losties are in the plane – the island is underwater.

  30. Yann From France says:

    I was checking the books references to Lost. And I stumbled upon The Stand (we know that King is very influencial and they stated on the Season1 DVD that this book was even more so).
    Here what wikipedia has to say: “They are drawn together by both circumstances and their shared dreams of a 108-year-old black woman from Hemingford Home, Nebraska, whom they see as a refuge and a representation of good in the struggle of good versus evil.”!
    Come on! I said I that Kate was 108 but of course she isn’t! Jacob is!
    The evil is called “the dark man” and has superpower… and just much more! I think I found the book I was looking for.
    Another “note” I strongly suggest: “Key’s to lost” last podcast. It really helps to “hear” the show.

  31. Robert B says:

    I agree with u about the kid saying “You know you can’t kill him” referring to Jacob. The reason I believe that is I think Fake Locke (Flocke) is the one who killed Jacob and not Ben. And that is why Illana took Jacobs ashes with her. To take them to the temple and resurrect Jacob maybe? And no I am not crazy by saying Flocke killed Jacob. Hear me out. If someone is stabbed, yet is pushed into a fire before they die, it is quite possible that the smoke inhilation or the fire itself will kill the person before the result of the stabbing does. What if Flocke jumped the gun and pushed Jacob into the fire before he died? That would make the cause of death the fire, not the stabbing. Hence Flocke killed Jacob, which is against the rules. And there are repurcussions to the breaking of those rules that will play out.

  32. Aaron says:

    I was searching through some old backups last night when I found a text file named “substitute” from early 2009. I don’t remember creating it, or anything about it, but it contained the following quote:

    “For it is believed that one can really give away one’s life to another person, or to a creature or even to a tree, by the favor of the gods;– and thus to transfer one’s life is expressed by the term migawari ni tatsu, ‘to act as a substitute.'”

    The quote made me think of Locke, and finding the file was a very Lost-esque “co-incidence”!

  33. ShannyMac3T0 says:

    @Robert B, Flocke being the one that actually killed Jacob does make sense. I can’t see that it is possible that Jacob died from the stab wounds that fast! I did not think of that before but now it really does start to make me think. Why else would the writers have Flocke push Jacob in the fire so fast? And with so many mentions of the “rules”, why not have a major one be broken?!

    I have to say, I am a HUGE fan of the real Locke, I absolutely adore him and my heart breaks for him. To have Jack “fix him” and have him dance at his wedding would be amazing. After all we do need to have payoffs after all the sadness we have seen our beloved characters go through.

  34. Kevie says:

    Wowww, Theresa From Detroit’s call really made me sit up and think!

    The idea that the Monster could be the serpent in the garden of Eden is fascinating. I know she doesn’t mean it literally is, but I’m having fun teasing out the concept. If the Island is Eden, then God and the Devil have been sitting there continually wrestling for souls ever since the original fall of man.

    Smokey tempts people to his side with the promise of knowledge. And what tree did the biblical Eve eat the fruit of? The the tree of knowledge of good and evil (white rock, black rock). From a non-dualist (Eastern) spiritual perspective, this can be seen as a fall into illusion. This human obsession with dividing the world into the “good” and the “bad”, and endlessly arguing over which is which. Whereas God sees no such distinctions, since there is nothing in the world that is not part of God. What humanity is really meant to achieve is equanimity towards all things, free of the Devil’s illusion that we must fight over who’s wearing the white hat and who’s wearing the black.

    Rose and Bernard were finally on to this when we met them at the end of Season 5. Ironic that they are identified as possibly being Adam and Eve in the cave, as it was the original Adam and Eve who set the whole shootin’ match into motion in the first place. If they are our Adam and Eve, perhaps it is meaningful that one is “white” and one “black”, and that they lay in their tomb peacefully holding hands.

  35. ShannyMac3T0 says:

    @ Kevie rose & bernard as adam and ever, peacful, one black one white… I like that.

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