Next: “Follow the Leader” (Episode 5×15)
Each season, the penultimate episode is usually given the sad assignment of being the doormat for the season finale. And, like those that have come before, “Follow The Leader” had its share of trekking and shuffling and exposition, as the various chess pieces are moved into place for the final showdown. But as these “setup episodes” go, we really liked this one. Great character moments, solid conflicts, noticeably vibrant cinematography (about which we only periodically rave), and brisk pacing. We’re satisfied, and properly pumped up for next week.
True, we had not one, but two “recycled” moments last night. The first? They replayed the “Ellie Shoots Faraday” scene from Jack and Kate’s perspective. And to be honest, I briefly feared that the writers would pull a “magical moving bullet hole” trick, a la Ben. Instead, they went out of their way to show us that Faraday is truly dead… right down to the “hand over the eyes to close them” cliche that’s everywhere in movies and TV. But the second re-run moment was unexpected: Locke brings Ben and Richard to meet Flashing Locke at the drug plane. It was awesome to watch, but prompted the night’s biggest headache as we tried to plot out where and when Richard and Locke were, and when they knew what. Frankly, I wonder if they just wrote in the scene to solve the “infinite compass” question. Either way, though, it was fun to watch.
I loved Michael Emerson’s Ben this week, exasperated and snarky. His scenes with Locke were fun, yet significant, throwing the two “leaders” into sharp relief. I also liked the brief moments of chemistry between Ben and Alpert, both familiar and awkward. The scene where Hurley is outed as a time traveler was, of course, hilarious… especially since he’s stumped when asked who the president is in 1977. He asked that very question to Sawyer in “Namaste,” but Sawyer groused, “It’s not a damned game show.” But that same scene carried unexpected warmth, as well, when Miles admits to Dr. Chang that he’s his son… and Dr. Chang accepts it.
As far as chemistry goes, I was loving the interplay between Sawyer and Juliet. From the violent interrogation to their conversation on the dock (where Juliet says she’s still glad Sawyer talked her into staying, and he hatches a plan to get rich via Microsoft), it’s great how the show’s most out-of-the-blue coupling remains one of its most strong and mature.
Until, of course, Kate drops in, and is handcuffed next to Juliet, the two of them conveniently across from Sawyer. That moment was so cheap and forced, I actually thought I heard a cartoony needle-scratching-off-a-record sound effect in the back ground. And here I thought we’d at least make it out of Season 5 without returning to Season 1 romantic melodrama.
And I was just starting to warm up to Kate again, too. She’s assertive, skeptical, perceptive… a lot of the things she’s often not allowed to be for the sake of a twist. She’s the first (followed by Sayid) to point out that the last three years of their lives is not something to be discarded lightly. I liked her look of exasperation when Jack admits to being with Faraday, and her answer to Ellie when she asks whether Jack knows what he’s talking about: “He thinks he does.” She stands up to, and parts ways with, Jack, soon after delivering one of her best lines in recent memory: “Since when did shooting kids and blowing up hydrogen bombs become okay?” Evangeline Lilly’s acting was solid, not screechy, her glassy eyes tonight taking me back to Kate’s strong Season 1 moments. Alas, she then marches off… right back into a soap opera.
I’m certain that the fake-out, when Kate briefly thinks she’d been shot, is simultaneously a low- and high-point for those who aren’t a fan of her character.
And Locke. Something’s up with Locke. If Locke’s even Locke. Richard immediately notices something’s different about him, and I don’t think it’s because he has a “purpose” now. He’s confident and resolute, but he’s something else… and when he dismisses out of hand Sun’s hopes of reunification with Jin, I got a cold chill. And he wants to kill the allmighty Jacob, if he’s allmighty at all. Is doing so in service of a grand plan that Locke is executing? Perhaps. Or is it simply the folly of a man who thinks he’s ascended to a level higher than he has? There’s a dark side to the new-and-improved Locke. And while I said earlier that I didn’t think I could take one more rise-and-fall cycle for his long-tortured character, I feel as if another reckoning is coming for him.
Jen observed: Kate is turning into Jack, skeptical and assertive. Jack is turning into Locke, a blind believer. And Locke is turning into Ben, all-knowing but perhaps overconfident. My contribution? Sun is turning into Michael. Her one-dimensional “have you seen my husband” path of the last several episodes are becoming this season’s “Wa-a-a-a-a-alt!”
Finally, does Jack detonate Jughead? I’m still of the opinion that he doesn’t, or that whatever happens, it isn’t what you’d typically expect of a blast from a 40,000-pound hydrogen bomb. Indeed, tonight we learn that Jughead is actually parked right underneath Othersville. You know, the cozy cottages and grassy fields that still exist, intact, in 2007?
Notes and Notions:
- “LOST” has good hair days, and bad hair days. It also has good special effects days, and bad special effects days. I have to say, the dramatic departure of the Galaga falls into the latter category. It was pretty weak, which I guess has to be expected given a weekly show and budget. It would’ve been better for us just to assume its departure based on the activity inside… but I guess they had to show the submarine under way else we draw the conclusion that it doesn’t move at all.
- The casting for Younger Eloise is great. (As was the casting for Young Eloise in “Jughead.”) Alice Evans is absolutely believable as the precursor to stoic Mrs. Hawking. Her character’s struggle to process what Faraday said was great. And her motivations for helping Jack seem deliciously unclear. Does she really want to undo the death of a son she never knew? Or is the prospect of just blasting the Dharma Initiative to smithereens just too tempting?
- In 2007, Alpert makes brief mention of another group of Others/Hostiiles at The Temple. Meanwhile, we know on Alcatraz (a.k.a. Hydra Island), Ilana and friends are up to something as well. I think both of these largely unexplored parties will play a key part in the season finale.
- Sayid is back. He seemed to take the fact that Ben survived surprisingly well. I mean, he of anyone, now, should have a strong opinion as to whether what they’re doing (and what they’re about to do) is really changing anything at all.
- So, Jack is seizing his moment. But Jen wonders, as do I, when his epiphany took place. He seemed to more roll into his current mission than blast off from a specific spark of inspiration or realization. I was expecting considerably more fireworks to celebrate the instant he decided to act.
- Radzinkski is a vile man. And apparently can stage a coup just by telling Horace he’s in charge. At least we seem to know how his story ends, as a stain on the roof of his precious Swan. Given what Phil did to Juliet, I don’t suspect he’s long for this world, either.
What did you think? Please comment below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or leave a message on the LostLine at (808) 356-0127.
May 6th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Regarding Faradays’ voice in the comic con Dharma video, Carlton Cuse said that it was a continuity error.
There. That debunks and answers many things.
May 6th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Yea, apparently he spoke at Ohio State yesterday and answered this question. They also aired the entire episode we’re seeing tonight. Why would they do that?
May 6th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Is Ohio State the university with the Lost course? Maybe that’s why
May 6th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40995
Some info of the Ohio State event
May 6th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Yo Knives, Sayid is coming out in this episode…eh…EEH
May 6th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Glen Matthews…. Sorry um… I just want this darn episode to start allready!
May 6th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Only I am not in Colorado tonight…watching on the east coast in hotel room…the pros- no kids to interrupt me- cons- no TIVO…but all I can say is:
Holy Freakin’ Crap and its only the first commercial break! Best first Scene in awhile…
May 6th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
agree w/ you there MLE. didn’t see “i watched them all die” coming.
i also have a man crush on richard alpert.
May 6th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
The exchange between Hurley and Chang was priceless.
And is 1977 Ellie pregnant w/ Dan? It would certainly appear that way.
May 6th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
So this new Locke reminds me of Season 1 Locke. Calm, cool, and in control. Doesn’t care what other people think. He knows what he wants to do and he isn’t going to let anybody get in his way. Much like w/ the Hatch. He knew he wanted it open and Boone’s death, Artz’s explosion and Hurley freaking out about the numbers wasn’t about to stop him.
May 6th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
dont read if the sun hasn’t set where you live yet…
…This episode has so many great time/people connections… Hey Chuckie meet your dead son Daniel, Hey Sun- I remember your husband- I watched him die…Hey grown up Miles…are you my son?….Hey Richard- can you go hang out with “3 years ago Locke” and give him some first Aid?…and then…jut to keep Knives Monroe as happy as a clam..in walks Sayid….its about time! (no pun intended…)
May 6th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I can’t remember if it was Ryan&Jen or Jay&Jack’s podcast, but somebody mentioned that last week when Dan was saying to Jack and Kate that any of them can die at any moment, the camera cut and stayed on Kate for a minute which could have been a foreshadow to Kate’s death. I almost had to change my pants when I heard that gunshot….till they showed Sayid.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Awesome episode. Much appreciated after last week’s stinker.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
It is really scary when John can scare a man who has been on the island for who knows how many years. The ep was was way too short!
May 6th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
lol @ MLE, I couldnt have said it better. lol, really wow. My love for Sayid is quite out there isnt!!!
BTW!!!
SAYID IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the biggest WTF ending THUD of this season..
Kill Jacob.
Whats Locke’s Motive, is he good, bad, wtf is gonna happen. What is going on.
Jack is really scaring me.
Oh man, in the words of Star Wars…
“I have a bad feeling about this”
May 6th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Well, I had read the summary of this episode on DarkUFO and now having seen it I am left numb. It was clearly all a set-up to the finale and that was expected. I’m just not sure what we learned tonight.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
locke wants to kill jacob. the look on ben’s face echoes my feelings.
jack wants to blow up the bomb. sayid’s gonna help. if the season ends w/ the bomb blowing up, the following 9 months are going to be complete hell.
locke’s new found self still amazes me.
next week: do sawyer juliet and kate seize the sub? the obviously end up back on the island.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Um…wow. So they all die? And from seeing next week’s episode, Kate/Sawyer/Juliet certainly don’t leave on the sub. Also, what the heck is going on with Locke? He is going to KILL Jacob? For real?
Man, so much stuff. We will find out what is in the box in 2007 with the other group next week. It only promises to leave on a true cliff hanger.
Wow.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Well, the tunnels kind of explain how the Others just “popped up” out of nowhere, and possibly how/why Walt was dripping wet when Shannon saw him in Season 2 (although it doesn’t explain the backwards talking).
May 6th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Good point there Cindy. Explains why Richard says the fence doesn’t stop them.
and @John Fisher, I’m not of the ilk that needs answers every week. I thoroughly enjoyed this episode.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Great thud! I think the island needs a back story. Who built the incredibly intricate tunnel system with the fancy under water entrance? Does anyone else find it ironic that Eloise finally shows emotion following the death of the son she never showed any emotion??? Also, I am interested in finding out how Sawyer, Juliet, and Kate get out of a submerged submarine to be back on the island to try and stop Jack from detonating an H-bomb for the finale. Damn, the finale…that means six months without Lost again…there is no way that any other show can possible compete with the mind numbing, exciting story telling that is Lost. I look forward to everyone’s comments and the podcast come Monday.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Incredible episode. I still believe that whatever happened, happened and that incident will occur and it will occur the way it always did.
But what confuses me is that if destiny is predetermined, why must our friends on the island need to be pushed in the right direction toward their destiny? Shouldn’t it just happen?
Destiny? Happens? Happened? My head hurts.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
So I know there is the whole thing with the voice and the eye in Jacob’s cabin, but is anyone else starting to think that Jacob is not actually real, but rather just a fictional tool used by the island’s leaders so that people will do things for them.
Think about it:
1. It wouldn’t be the first continuity error/unexplained event to show up in LOST
2. If you were a leader of the others, wouldn’t it be alot easier for people to listen to you and follow you if they felt that these instructions were coming from some higher being?
I think Locke has figured this out and that’s why he accused Ben of not actually ever seeing him, and now he is taking everyone to the cabin to see the falsity of the whole thing. Which, in turn, will mean that he is going to “kill” him.
The only thing that really seems to not fit into this theory though is the whole fact that Horace built Jacob’s cabin and all, but I’m sure the writers could find a way to explain that as well.
Love the show! (both the transmission and LOST, if there was any confusion)
May 6th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Wherever Locke was in DEAD IS DEAD, before Ben summoned the monster is probably where he learned what time he was and that Locke would be flashing there later that next day…
Damn, this episode was heavy.
Darn, John Fischer you shouldn’t have read the synopsis, sure its hard not to know, but I read the synopsis having watching the episode before, and It was word for word a direct response to the entire episode. Its hard to clearly judge and make up a mind on the episode, having been spoiled!
You totally jump into the forward cabin don’t you…
no offense to anyone… I just love being surprised.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Is Jacob even human?
Wow, what an episode. I know I say that every week, but every week it is true.
Sayid back just in time. What an entrance!
May 6th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Wooo! Couldn’t agree more with you Carol.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Knives:
You’re right. Reading the spoiler really ruined this episode for me so I can’t really evaluate it. It was fun to watch, but having read the spoiler I felt like I was seeing a re-run.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
I’m w/ Carol too.
I see where Jon is coming from in that nobody other than (I’m assuming Richard) has seen/talked to Jacob. Unless Jacob doesn’t have human form and the only way for him to communicate w/ humans is through proxies such as Christian.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Knives, gotta say Sayid had the funniest line of the night in the tunnel. “At least it will end our misery” cracked me up.
People this show cannot kill off – Sayid, Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun, Jin and Miles. PLEASE!!
Loved the look on Miles’ face when he realized what his dad did.
What’s in Hurley’s case????
May 6th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Kate just ruins the show for me. I wish she had taken a bullet, and we had Daniel back.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Carol – I doubt that all of our people on the island will die next week. The bomb might go off, but I find it impossible to believe that will be it. There was an incident, the DI referenced it. Maybe due to the nature of the island, somehow the bomb’s “power” is reduced or negated. BUT, i betchya that next week ends w/ the bomb exploding and we have to wait 9 months to see what happens
May 6th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
John – gotta agree with Knives, I am staying totally spoiler free these last few episodes, I am not reading any articles or anything. I don’t want to know, I really enjoyed last season’s last episode since I didn’t have any idea of what would happen. It so much more fun to be surprised.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Don’t mention it John, I’ve had the feeling before.
They def. can’t kill off Sayid, Sawyer, Jack, Kate, Hugo, Sun, Jin or Miles…
I guess that means we all agree that Juliet is expendable. Gosh. lol
“At least it put end to our misery” Oh man. That was a terrifically sad line.
I really liked this episode, and I can’t wait to see it again, later tonight.
I wonder if tonight’s format will be the same to the finales. Not really centric but more everyone in the different times…
Man I truly hope that whatever happened, happened, cause man, almost anything can happen.
And WTH does ‘the fork in the outlet mean’… cause if that’s how Locke plans to kill Jacob, I don’t know if a fork can do the job…
Oh man, this next episode is gonna blow our minds! It’s the last SEASON FINALE CLIFFHANGER of LOST ever, so it must be giant!
Thank goodness we don’t have to wait 2 weeks… phew.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
I loved this episode! 100% better than last week’s episode.
Just a few observations
1. When Hurley got off of the sub in Namaste didn’t he ask Sawyer who the president was in 1977? Too bad that no one told him who it was!!
2. I am not really a Kate fan, but Sawyer and Juliet really need to cut her some slack. It isn’t her fault that she was Sawyer’s first love. They are treating her like she has the plague or something.
3. I can’t wait until someone puts Radzinsky in his place!! I hope that it is Sawyer!!
4. Lock is officially off the reservation! The whole scene when Lock was watching RA take the bullet out of his leg blew my mind. Lock is going to try to kill Jacob. I can’t wait to see how that goes down!
May 6th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
I was spoiled for the flash forward at the end of season 3. It really ruined the last few episodes of that year for me. Since then, I’ve gone 100% spoiler-free. No articles, I generally stay away from message boards. Only things I listen to are the forward cabin, its usually shooting locations and that doesn’t give away too much, and “next week on lost” on tv.
May 6th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Knives – in the preview for next week they showed richard slamming a “hammer” into a wall saying something like “here we go”. Sounds like a fork in the outlet to me
May 6th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Locke “I have some ideas” man now he’s saying what Ben has said… Im really scared for LOCKE, I mean I love him, and just as the way I love Ben, wether he’s good or ‘bad’ I still love them you know… But does Locke malevolent intentions? In general?
I mean he conned Sun didn’t he, to go with him. Dang… Hrm. Either way it makes for invigorating, elaborate, and incredible storytelling!!!
Oh man… The Incident.. In the words for John from NC
Holy Freaking Crap!!!
May 6th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Awesome episode!
The scene that struck me as odd was when John, Ben and Richard were in the jungle because John was taking Richard to himself to remove the bullet from his leg. John said to Ben “he gave him his compass back” talking about himself. Not “he gave me the compass back”.
I strongly dislike Radzinsky.
May 6th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Sorry I just recalled.
Well Juliet is gorgeous (Elizabeth Mitchell) And I know we fans sometimes give her a lot of crap, but when Phil smacked, her I yelled at my TV so loud!
That was UNCALLED FOR!!! And unexpected!
May 6th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Jacob = future version of jack or at least it’s in the family. It would explain a lot of things including why Jack’s father and half sister were in Jacob’s cabin.
May 6th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
LOVED that episode. First time poster.
Really wondering what is in Hurley’s case too. Thought we might see tonight. Thinking since we didn’t it is something really important.
Is Locke wanting to kill Jacob so bad? Maybe Jacob/island is bad. After all it Judged Ben and said he was okay
May 6th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
I REALLY enjoyed his episode. I thought all of the missing pieces were nicely done (Alpert removing the bullet & Chang sending his wife and son away). They only have a few big plot moments to fill in and this season will be solid.
But as for the ending, am I the only one who wasn’t blown away by Locke’s statement about killing Jacob? They’ve kept Jacob’s identity and purpose a secret from us, without ever hinting at or explaining anything about this mysterious character. Rightly so, because that’s what makes Jacob so intriguing and awesome. But could that mysteriousness take its toll when viewers aren’t invested in a character at all? After making a powerful statement about killing Jacob, I was left thinking, “…okay. So what?”
May 6th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Could Richard have been remembering his Black Rock days while building the ship in a bottle?
May 6th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Kind of saw Juliet getting smacked coming for a while… didn’t figure Sawyer would say much either way, though….
Any guesses as to the the thoughts behind the absolutely HORRIFIED look on Ben’s face when Locke said he was going to kill Jacob?
May 6th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
knives – i remember a couple of darlton podcasts ago, somebody wrote in about liking phil. darlton said wait a couple of episodes and you’ll change your mind. i never liked phil in the first place, but now he’s really on my s?!t list.
May 6th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
I have a feeling my brain will end up being as braided as a twizzler. Well. You know what I mean. Why do you guys think Eloise and Charles divorced? Did they?
May 6th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
This show was my favorite of the season. It had it all: mythology, parallel stories in time, love in many different forms, poignancy, and Richard Alpert.
While not originally a huge Locke fan, I have to say that I find his new-found confidence amazing and fun to watch. Even Richard is completely thrown for a loop. John’s talking to a higher power now – maybe he is the higher power – and hidden false prophets like Jacob need to be taken out of the equation. John is working on a different level now… the rest of the characters and us are mere mortals.
I can’t wait to see Radzinsky and Phil get theirs. I was with you Knives – when he slapped Juliet, my blood went to boiling and I think Sawyer really was going to kill him.
I’m not a ’shipper by any means, but I really enjoy seeing Juliet and Sawyer together and happy. Then Kate keeps butting in. I fear their apparent happiness will be short lived – I just have this terrible sense of foreboding that one of them is going to die soon. I hope I’m wrong.
Hurley having those questions Sawyer told him not to worry about come back to bite him – too funny!
May 6th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
When Kate showed up in the Sub, did anyone else go “awwwwkward”
May 6th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
If you recall, Jacob asked Locke to help him, back in season three. Perhaps our invisible man was asking for death? Perhaps eternal life is something like torture? Locke might be on a mercy mission.
May 6th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Hey guys.
Awesome episode!
After tonight’s episode my hunch that Richard is from the Black Rock (or is a descendant of the Black Rock) seems to have another clue.
Wasn’t it interesting how in the beginning of the episode Richard is working on a ship in a bottle model?
Also the whole ship in a bottle thing seems like a bit of an interesting metaphor for the show/island in general.
Black Rock Ship stuck in a “bubble” of some sort w/ only a tiny little opening (the coordinates) to get in and out.
May 6th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
I’ll throw out the Locke is Jacob thing, kind of like how he knew when he’d be at the plane to have Alpert help him. It will also explain his reaction on not being mad at Ben killing him. He would have to kill him too.
May 6th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Carol Says:
“Sayid back just in time. What an entrance!”
Yeah I love Sayid too, but that was the worst timing possible. when i heard that shot I screamed out in joy and then slammed my head on the coffee table and sceamed what the fuck are you doing Sayid when I realized it wasn’t kate that got shot.
As for jacks new quest… I am still under the belief that what ever happened happened, And I have a crackpot theory to back it up: Desmond not pushing the button caused a time loop ALL AT ONCE. everything we have seen so far would not have happened if it were not for him. Just say he didn’t miss the button and Jack had not got on 815 and instead took a boat that happened to end up on the island. When he arrived everything would have been different. Ben would have grown up normaly and not be the leader of the others/hostiles there would be no incident and the Dharma and Hostiles would still be living in peace.
Crackpot theory 2: if jack succeeds in detonating the bomb over the hatch it will be the wrong hatch. It will be over the place that the tail section gang was living and destroy the magnetic whatever at that place. Also the resulting blast/explosion/implosion sends the losties to a different time. back to the proper time or Black rock time?
Crackpot theroy 3: Jacob is Jacks great grandfather. the Jacob cabin has so far only been inhabited by Jacks family (christian/claire). I originally thought it was his grandfather Ray (who I also think is Oldham) but the timeline doesnt work for that theory. Although time is relative I think it makes more sense for it to be Jacks great grandfather because in the bible Jacobs great grand son is named arron? And unfortunately I think Locke is being used by Christian to revenge some family tiff whitch is why he wants to kill Jacob now.
May 6th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
LOST Friends,
As John from NC would say Holy Freaking Crap Squared!!! Great setup episode with some mind blowing reveals about John’s new mission on the Island. More on John in a minute…
So it seems to me that their are two camps of 2007 Losties in 1977 in relation to Daniel’s plan. Jack and Sayid are working to undo their past, by changing the past. This plan saves 815 from crashing and puts everyone in LA safely. For Jack this isn’t a huge plus, but it saves so many lives lost. For Sayid he possibly finds his one true love and doesn’t end up killing loads of Widmore’s peeps. Sounds like a good deal for them. Who else benefits from this… Claire, Aaron, Michael, Walt, Vincent, Jin, Sun, Charlie, Charlotte, Goodwin, Tom Friendly, Echo, Anna Lucia, Libby, Boon, Shannon, Alex, Karl, Roseau and the list goes on.
For the other Losties having the plane not crash and land in LA means their crappy lives continue. This would include Kate, Sawyer, Locke, Juliet, Ben, Hugo, Miles, Rose, Bernard, Hawking, Penny, Desmond and ironically Daniel. All of the above who want the time line to remain the same benefited in some way from the plane crashing while the others in Jack’s group go on living or don’t die.
I am split on which I would pick if I had to choose. Ultimately I think Jack will not go through with it because he loves Kate too much.
My crack pot theory is that when the sub comes back to drop off Sawyer, Kate and Juliet that somehow future Miles touches baby Miles later on and the Incident happens rupturing space and time at the Swan station. In season six we will see the Dharma’s and Others come together to create the count down timer in the Swan to negate the energy and the fail safe key that Desmond turns in the future is actually rigged to the H bomb some how as a secondary protocol to stop the end of the world.
On the new and formerly dead is dead John Locke. I love the new John and anyone who can make the Others look at one another and be clueless about what is going on has my vote. Loved the scene where Ben and Richard are baffled! I love it that Ben is clueless about time travelling John. Not sure why John wants to kill Jacob, unless it is more of a metaphor for disproving his existence as a God like power to the others. Richard is definitely the captain of the Black Rock!
Jen and Ryan keep up the wonderful work! I can’t wait for next week!
I have a suggestion about the season six finale… I would love to come to Hawaii and watch it with you and other Transmission fans. Are you game? This would be so fantastic! I am in Maryland so you are welcome to come here if you want to get away from the Island once and for all!
Cheers!
Welshie
May 6th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
That episode right there is why I love LOST.
After giving the “I’m going to kill Jacob” thing some thought, John could possibly mean symbolically. If he shows everyone there is no Jacob – then he kills Jacob. Maybe this is why he called Ben out on having never seen Jacob earlier in the episode.
If that were true… then the fun should start if and when Jacob shows up.
I love John Locke, but every time John gets to cocksure he gets taken down a few notches.
May 6th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Hey there all! Happy Lost Day!
Loved the episode and I have a million questions running through my head, waiting to be untangled, but the one that is screaming the loudest is …where are Rose and Bernard?!?!
May 6th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Loved the episode. I thought it was really exciting and I can’t wait for next week. The only small problem I have is that I am not convinced of Jack’s motivation for changing things. I don’t think the “we’ve suffered so much” argument holds up. I did like that he mentioned the lives that would be saved by the plane not crashing. That’s the one reason I could see Jack (the man who tries to save everyone) buying. I could certainly see Sayid going for it because of Shannon. And, the motivation for Kate of love for Jack and avoiding prison is clear. Sawyer and Juliet clearly don’t want things to change for the sake of their love. Just lose the “we’ve suffered so much” excuse for Jack and emphasize the saving everyone on the plane from death, and you’ve got it. Next week is going to be great!
May 6th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Lorne,
Kate coming on the sub was the best “MST3K” moment of the episode. “Wow, you’re both on the sub, I’m on the sub, what’s the odds of anything so awkward happening?”(in a high, giggly falsetto).
I don’t know where the new super-confident, Tony-Robbins reading Locke is going, but I love seeing RA and Ben left dumbfounded in his wake.
As soon as Locke said he was going to “kill Jacob”, I thought of Star Trek’s Klingons, who (as all good geeks know0 killed their gods. Way to get that Trek tie-in reference; not as good as Fringe’s Clint Howard cameo, but still…
May 6th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Wheres Vincent!!!!!!?
May 6th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Great episode and a fantastic setup for the finale. That’s not to say that the episode was only setup or “filler” as others may call it. There was a great sense of urgency and the characters were spot on. Even if you think some are annoying, they were consistently annoying
The trifecta of Locke, Ben and Richard has changed since Locke returned but it is just as interesting as it has always been, if not more so. I think Kate is right and Jack is wrong, regarding Jughead. I think Jack will in turn cause the very incident that is talked about in the orientation film. They implied that Eloise was pregnant when Widmore was talking to her in the background – he seemed to touch her belly and said something about “in your condition.”
I’m starting to wonder if Locke’s plan to kill Jacob is simply by exposing him as a fake. This would in essence kill the idea that there is a higher power called Jacob pulling the strings. Though, maybe not considering someone or something said “Help me” to John back in season 3.
Anyway, a great episode with a lot of forward momentum and character moments, especially for Locke, Ben, Richard, Hurley, Miles, Sawyer, and Juliet. Oh, and Sayid kicked some ass again! I wish Jin had a little more to do but hopefully he and Sun will be reunited next week.
Great podcast as always!
May 6th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
I certainly hole Sun and Jin are reunited next week because all of her lines have become “where’s Jin”. The character’s become a charicature of Sun. I’m sure they’ll fix that, there’s only so much screentime to go around.
May 6th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Tonight’s episode was fan-tastic!!!
Quick thoughts…
Locke killing Jacob — I think Locke’s future self came back and told him what to do. Maybe when he was away while Ben and Smokie had their meeting as stated above. I think this is how Locke has gained his whole new realm of confidence and understanding. He tells himself – this is what needs to happen and this is how you will do it, this is where you need to be when, etc…
Jacob saying “Help Me” to Locke — I have a funny feeling that we only think Jacob said this to Locke, but we’ll find out that it’s all what you think you saw or heard, not what really happened. We get that a lot in Lost afterall. I think perhaps the Island (or a future time traveling Locke) needs help and says that. I believe there is no Jacob, and whatever is in the cabin is time traveling versions of people who tell our people what to do so they move forward with a plan. But the way Locke will “kill” Jacob, is to expose that he does not really exist. Did that make sense?
Eloise — I cannot figure out why she wants to go to the bomb. I noticed that Charles was commenting on her “condition” before they left camp (she’s obviously already pregnant in ‘77). One of the camp guys said their love is “complicated”. Maybe she’s not happy about being pregnant = could further explain the distance she always feels toward Daniel.
Kate/Sawyer/Juliet/Jack = totally messed up! But what relationships aren’t in some way??? How would you feel is a guy you loved (even if it was deep deep down and a long while ago) said – Hey, if I can erase all of “us” – our memories, our ties, our good times and bad, I’ll not only do but I’ll do it gladly without consulting you. I’d run back to Sawyer and the sub as well! Poor Juliet. It was the sweetest moment in the sub, then Kate comes in and bam. Ouch. Juliet knows things won’t end well, because she’s heard this story before. I whole heartedly feel like she knows how it ends and she’s just waiting for the other shoe to fall. It’ll happen right before next weeks season finale thud!
@Welshie – Heck yeah!!! Season 6 finale party! Let’s do it!!!
And the “What did you see?” clips …. I get the feeling they are related to our show? Anyone know anything about them?
May 6th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
This episode felt a lot like season one to me. Locke was running around in the jungle with a torch and a mission, Sawyer was getting beat up for something, and trusty trigger-happy Sayid. (I must admit, I was actually hoping that Kate had been shot, but I’ll leave any further Kate-bashing off this blog.)
One of the hidden highlights for me though was Miles finally realizing that his dad had kicked his mom and baby miles off the Island to save their lives…interesting that Miles was the one to convince his father to evacuate them though. Almost a grandfather paradox.
I feel satisfied with the set up for the next episode.
May 6th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Biggest questions of all…
Who’s the leader they should be following?
May 6th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I’d follow Vincent!
May 6th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
What an episode! I was jumping up and down in my seat for almost the whole hour!
Loved the reveal about how John sent Richard to help “himself” after he got shot and loved how he totally put Ben in his place about Jacob.
My thought is that Jacob is either a parasite to the Island who has to be exterminated OR he is the Spirit of the Island whose time has come to move on. Either way, I think Locke has known ever since the “help me” episode that sooner or later Jacob would have to be dealt with. It is possible that Jacob was the original leader of whatever people first invaded the Island back in Egyptian times.
We got to see so much more of Richard Alpert this episode. The mystique is wearing away the more we find out about him. He doesn’t seem to possess any supernatural powers other than long life and seems as much in the dark about everything as we are. Is he just a man, all be it a very old and very attractive man?
Loved the “oh snap!” moment when Kate was ushered into the sub to put the wet blanket on Sawyer and Juliet’s little “we’ll have a wonderful life” moment of bliss. I think Kate and Radzinski should hook up…they both seem hellbent on spoiling all the interesting plans.
Hilarious bit between Hurley and Dr. Chang regarding the past, and very touching moment as Miles realized that his father acted out of love and concern for him and did not desert him and his mother.
I was so hoping we would get to see Jacob tonight…sigh.
May 6th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Did not see that ending coming. Is Richard actually someone bad? Perhaps he’s actually been keeping Jacob locked up against his will? Certainly something is going on with Jacob that Richard isn’t in such a big hurry for Locke to find out about.
Loved the admission by Miles that he was Chang’s son. That was a nice moment, as was the realization by Miles that his dad really did care. So, if Jughead goes off, doesn’t that mean that Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Jin and Hurley will die too since that is their present? And I’m hoping whatever is in Hurley’s guitar case is good. They are alluding to something surprising in there.
Am I the only one who kept thinking that Sawyer, Juliet or Kate were going to bite it tonight? Seems to be foreshadowing one of them being killed.
Going to need to watch it again to really gather my thoughts.
May 6th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
I absolutely hated how they kept going back to Daniel’s dead body…sniff.
May 6th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
[Sorry! We discuss spoilers in our podcast, but redact them from our blog to spare those who don't want to stumble across it... warning or no warning. We'll see next week!]
May 6th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
MLE: The sun doesn’t go down here until 10:30pm…sorry can’t wait
May 6th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Hey, did anyone else notice that the music playing while the 2007 Others were marching down the beach with Locke to find Jacob was the same music used when the Losties were trouping down the beach thinking that they were getting off the island? (Wow, was that ever a run on sentence?!)
May 6th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
This is my fav episode of the season I think. It has some great looking shots and I can’t wait for next week!
May 6th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Is Des and Pen and baby Charlie even a part in the LOST story now? Any theories on Des and Penny during the finale?
Do they play a role..
I miss them…
Happy they’re together and in love with a baby, but I would like to see more of them, even if it isn’t life threatening.
May 6th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
WOW! what a great show!
I really think Sawyer has changed and he loves Juilet. I got the feeling when he said “good riddance” to the Island he was also saying that to Jack and Kate. I think he is very tired of their drama. I really like Sawyer and Juliet togather.
Kate and Jack….wow his “love” for her was really shallow huh? I didnt realize she liked him so much. I would have thought it was the other way around for both.
Ben and Richard….I didnt think anything could get to them. But Lock sure is. But if Daniles plan is carried out and Lock is in the middle of rescuing the Island would that mean that he flashes to the present and is not longer trying to help the island then the Island is back to being under the control of Jacob?
So we learned Richard is an Advisor….we we knew that its official now. I think he has been on the Island since the begining long before the Black Rock. What was up with the compass?
I dont get how Lock was in the same time as he was in the past. I thought the plane landed in the future? So if he went to the beach would Jin still be there?
May 6th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
My new favorite Kate line:
Since when is killing kids and blowing up hydrogen bombs o.k.?
May 6th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
That was probably the greatest line she’s ever said!
May 6th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
I take it Jack and Kate forgot what the Oceanic 815 pilot said in the first episode. Flight 815 turned around and was flying in the other direction for at least a couple of hours. If the plane didn’t crash on the island it still wouldn’t have make it L.A.
May 6th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Dang Helen, you’re absolutely right.
Ay yi yi, Jack.
May 6th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
The finale had better be worth Kate not dying.
May 6th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Alleluia! After last week I was quite disapointed (especially due to the “comicon” video which is a fake now that Dan is dead and Miles and mother left the Island), but now: John is back! Back in bisness, back from the dead… just back!
Jack and Sayid working together to change everything… they are the two guys who lost everything leaving the Island. Jack alcoolic, lost Kate, fed up with life. Sayid murderer, lost Nadia, fed up with life. The best thing ever for them would be to change everything!
And Kate of course doesn’t want that! If the plane goes straight to LA she will go straight to jail!
Sawyer doing a Sawyer: surviving!
Ben now still being deciving… but working for Locke now!
I mean: for once this season EVERYONE was consistant! The mythology is leading us who knows where but the caracters are consistant! That’s good! Really good!
May 7th, 2009 at 1:31 am
The show is so fun to watch, especially now with all the layers of mythology, character development and relationships.
Loved: Miles expression when he saw Daddy talk meanly to his Mommy
-even tho that was so telegraphed it was still well done
Every scene with Locke
Sawyer with Juliet
Eloise with dead Daniel, but what did she read in the Journal
that so convinced her?
Why? Why has Kate changed from the “I’ve always been with you” to “we have to stop you”
What about the looks exchanged between Richard and Ben? Sure, they’re following Locke now, but you get the feeling they’re looking for an opportunity to manipulate him again.
Will we see any of those Others again? Could the Others and/or Dharma present a potential spin-off? I mean, LOST is a phenomena and when have we not known TV to try to repeat the magic, over, and over and over?
Will you guys do some kind of live show after the finale?
May 7th, 2009 at 1:35 am
I know they will tie ALL of this up next year by flying on the plane once again, going through some tribulation, landing, and not knowing anyone on the plane…just as Kate told us last night. They will all end up complete strangers.
THAT WILL BE THE ENDING. IT WAS JUST HANDED TO US.
KATE IS CORRECT IN ALL HER ASSUMPTIONS.
May 7th, 2009 at 2:10 am
I thought this was perhaps the strongest set-up show before a finale yet. It moved with great pace and all the pieces have been put in place for next week’s episode. I’m staying away from spoilers because like some of the reader’s above, I learned my lesson from Season 3!
Undead Locke is just plain creepy. He reminds me of undead Christian. I don’t know what it is about them but I don’t think any of them are good. In fact, the only one that I’m convinced is good on this entire show is Vincent!
Love the idea of meeting in Hawaii for the series finale! We would have to have (at minimum) John Fisher, Paintergirl and Connie in Alaska!
May 7th, 2009 at 2:32 am
My favorite part of this episode was the Hurley-Chang exchange, that ended in Hurley saying, “OK dude, we’re from the future” when he couldn’t answer who the president of the US was. Hilarious. I also found all the Miles scenes very touching. Loving season 1-esque John Locke. Yeah, I have to say I was not exactly upset when I thought Kate had been shot. What a great Sayid entrance. I was hoping for a little more back story on Richard, but I still enjoyed the episode. I have no idea where this show is going which is cool. I do have an ominous feeling for my fave character Desmond that he is going to have to make some huge sacrifice (Dickens “A Tale of Two Cities” style) though. I hope not, but I get the feeling. I’m also hoping that Phil gets his this season and we get to see the end of Radzinsky next season. That guy must have been in the Swan for over a decade–can you imagine being his hatch-mate?! Looking forward to the podcast as always!
May 7th, 2009 at 2:36 am
Wow, what an eppy. I thought the Miles/Dr.Chang moment was pivotal for 2 reasons. Clearly, it answers the question of why Miles’ mom left (and answered another daddy issue storyline). But, it also shows us that Dr. Chang actually defects from the Dharma initiative flunkies (to protect the Dharma women and children) and was on the island for a noble purpose (science). It also proves that at least one Dharma video (with a one-armed Chang) was made AFTER the incident and AFTER Chang evacuated the island. Thus, why did Chang make the videos and who were they intended for (if not Dharma people)? The flight 815 survivors circa 2004?
Next week’s the game changing episode. Can we handle it?!!!
May 7th, 2009 at 3:30 am
Maybe the dharma initiative can’t reproduce because they live on top of a nuclear bomb.
May 7th, 2009 at 3:31 am
i’m nit-picking, as i often do but…
why didn’t they enter the temple the same way that Ben did in “Dead is Dead”?
Way to go ABC idiots for spoiling the fact that the SUB-folks don’t leave the island, brilliant!
i think Locke is making a huge mistake for showing his hand to Ben. Is he really going to kill “Jacob”? I don’t know but i DO think that Jacob is a real person. weather he’s alive or dead as of this time period on the island, i don’t know. but i’m a firm believer that Jacob is/was a real person.
Way to go writers for constantly throwing a wrench in the Sawyer/Juliet love life! Josh is such a good actor you could even see the “why the hell are you here screwing things up again Kate” look on his face.
However…i do agree with Kate’s POV in this episode. Jack is off his freakin rocker.
ok, that really urks me that Cuse came out and said the Faraday voice on the Comicon video was a continuity error…what does that mean even by “continutity error”? Does that mean Faraday makes the video with Candle at some earlier point in time? Or, does that mean that Faraday wasn’t supposed to be the one to make the video with Candle?
My guess is that they work it in the story somehow (or just voice it in the official podcast) that is was Miles that films this scene and not Faraday…
May 7th, 2009 at 3:36 am
@cat – Thank you! It was sweet of you to mention me with such greats as John Fisher and Connie in Alaska
.
Last night’s episode got me to thinking about the different factions on the island that we don’t understand. Those factions that may or may not be working together. We have:
The Smoke Monster – Responsible for Eko’s death, the scene with Ben and dead Alex, the death of the 815 pilot, etc.
The Island – Tells Locke to rescue Eko from the polar bear cave, tells Locke where to go to rendezvous Richard and his past self, etc.
Jacob – Is supposedly represented by Christian Shephard, asks for Locke’s help, is an unseen figurehead for the others.
My husband and I were thinking of the possible similarities between Jacob and the representation of God in the His Dark Materials trilogy by Phillip Pullman. In it, God is trapped by Megatron. He isn’t really in charge, and is relieved when the main characters kill him (release him).
Is it possible Locke is doing what the island and Jacob want by killing Jacob? Is it possible that the island, the smoke monster, and Jacob aren’t all necessarily on the same side? For example, why would the island tell Locke to rescue Eko only to have the smoke monster kill him immediately after?
May 7th, 2009 at 3:37 am
After the previews last week, I thought this would be Kate’s chance to MATTER for once. I thought she’d have a problem with reversing the timeline and I was correct. I thought she’d take things into her own hands and oppose Jack. She did. Then she promptly got caught with little fanfare. Not even a shootout!
Kate, kate, kate…
May 7th, 2009 at 3:47 am
About a month ago, I stopped asking questions (mostly because my head hurt) and just sat back for the ride. All in due time, I said. I am almost hoping everyone does die next week (yes! I just said it). I’m okay with letting them go. They’ve been through enough. Let them all get back together – whether it be 1977 or 2007 – and then croak in “the incident” – any incident (electromagnetic flash, H bomb, someone gets too close to themselves – whichever you fancy most). Ok ok, I do have one nagging concern: Desmond – when, why and how he’s going to end up back on the pile.
Flashforward to season six and give us the island history, how the apparitions (Christian, Claire, Charlie, et al) operate, the Others’ backstories (a Richard-centric episode would be heart-stopping), and then the flashforwards of all the children – Walt, Charlie, Aaron, Ji Yeon. We’d see our Losties again through time jumps, but we need to get to the nitty gritty of how it all came to pass and will continue for the future.
May 7th, 2009 at 3:48 am
Lucia- The music was also played in season one when the raft was taking off, and I think when the losties were “fake rescued” During that scene I kept thinking about the movie “Ten Commandments” and I told my husband it feels like Moses leading everyone to the burning bush.
Biggest frustration of this season, sweeping statements and then the characters don’t ask for explanations. I know they do it for plotline purposes but it still drives me crazy. Example – Richard tells Sun that he saw everyone die. Why wouldn’t Sun ask how they died?
re: Kate, Sawyer and Julliet, I do like Sawyer and Julliet as a couple but I think Julliet’s jealousy of Kate will be her undoing. It is obvious Sawyer still has feelings for Kate. Personally I think Kate and Jack deserve each other, they both are hot headed, and make bad decisions based on what they think is best for other people. The difference is the bottom line with Kate is that Kate comes first. Jack puts everyone else first.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:10 am
I loved this episode! It left me confused and puzzling over it. I realized that’s what I love most about Lost and what had been missing in a bunch of the episodes this season that seemed too much in a rush to explain everything too quickly. And I love that finally Ben is confused too! It seems that for the first time, neither he nor Eloise know what is going to happen next.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:33 am
Hey Lydia, I am from MA too. I agree it is so much fun to watch Ben be confused, though with him, you never know if he is faking it.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:53 am
A lot of people have been stating that it’s fact that Christian Shepard “is” Jacob…i don’t recall any particular instant where they have given conclusive evidence than he is Jacob. I know Hurely seeing him in the cabin and the scene where he and Claire are in the cabin. But, i don’t believe that that is conclusive evidence that he is Jacob. I’m under the belief that Christian could be either the smoke monster or the physical manifestation of the “island”. My only real reasons for these speculations are that we’ve seen the smoke monster take the form of people in the past (Yemi and Alex), and we’ve seen the island take the form of people from the past (Boone, possibly Walt) So, i think it’s still up in the air whether Christian is Jacob or smokey or the “island”.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:56 am
Kaysea, I agree about Sawyer confirming his changed persona last night. When he paused before getting in the sub, I thought he was going to decide not to get on – much like he jumped from the helicopter. I actually audibly said, ‘Oh no! No…..” Then, the new and improved Sawyer said ‘good riddance’ and entered the sub to be with Juliet. All was good for a bit – until Kate showed up… again.
I, for one, hope Sawyer doesn’t return to his bad-boy persona. I like the redemptive arc his character has taken.
May 7th, 2009 at 6:53 am
@paintergirl1, I don’t disagree that the Island, Smoke Monster and Jacob may not all be working together but I don’t think that the example of Echo is proof of the theory. From the time it happened, I took it that the Island still had hope for Echo and wanted to save him to judge him and forgive him if Echo asked for forgiveness. When Echo felt no remorse and refused to ask for forgiveness, that was the nail in his coffin, so to speak.
Loved the episode and look forward to the podcast!
May 7th, 2009 at 7:25 am
Is it possible that Jacob doesn’t exist at all? John Locke eluded to this several times during the episode, challenging both Ben and Richard on the point. If Ben and Richard know there really is no Jacob, and that exposing the lie could undermine their authority over the others, that could explain their reluctant behavior, and Ben’s expression just before the thud.
Clearly Richard is some sort of ageless superhuman, perhaps he and Ben manifested Jacob as a mythical “Wizard of Oz” ruler that no one can see or talk to, which makes it difficult to challenge his authority.
Perhaps John’s reference to killing Jacob is merely a metaphor. He is only killing the myth, so he can have absolute power.
May 7th, 2009 at 7:36 am
Really enjoyed the ep, thought it had good pace.
RA: I’m surprised by RA – was expecting him to be more “knowing.” Why would Ben call him an “advisor” ? I suspect Ben doesn’t really know all too much about RA. Also, don’t believe he is from the Black Rock — knows too much about the island, and doesn’t age.
The Compass: what’s up with the compass? It has no origin except in a circular self-referential way.
Jughead: I don’t believe one can detonate a hydrogen bomb all too easily. In fact, detonation of the fusion aspect of a hydrogen bomb requires the implosive force of a surrounding atom (fission) bomb.
Eloise: some people wonder why she was so cold to Daniel. I’m not surprised, given that she birth a son whom she knows she, in her timeline, has killed, and that he, in his timeline, will be killed by here. Seems to me that it was implied that she is pregnant in 1977, and that Widmore is the Dad. What child is that?
Well, if a Radzinsky D.I. “army” heads out soon to The Others camp based on Sawyer’s map, at least The Others won’t be there.
Canon: Am really really disappointed in Darlton for the Comic Con video, Cruse now saying that it is a “continuity error.” Does that mean the entire video, or just that Faraday is the cameraman and voice.
Locke: I don’t like at all this undead John Locke. Yes, he has mission and purpose – he always does when on-island and has always been a victim of circumstances when off-island. What does he mean when he says “the island told me” ? Of course, that should be “The Island.”
Spoilers: Like many of you, I am now trying to refrain from spoilers because they take the oomph from the seeing an ep. That said, I do like all the theorizing that goes on about what is really going on.
WHH: I’m still in this camp. For all of ever characters attempt to alter the past, events occur just as they need to in order that the future remains intact. Sayid kills Ben – but no: Kate saves Ben. And so on, and so I don’t believe than Jughead will explode. The Swan will be constructed. And Radzinsky will blow his head off. What puzzles me is this: why is it that people believe that Desmond is different? Perhaps all the odd interferences with Charlies death are also accounted for.
Time Travel: I don’t like time travel for all its obvious and not so obvious paradoxes. I actually hope that the season 6 wrap-up for Lost transcends time travel, that it’s appearance is only a manifestation of how we are seeing the story, but some major reveal will show it not to be the case. I’d be happier to discover the players are all just players in a multi-player immersive virtual reality game. I know that would be unsatisfying to many fans, but at least such would allow resolution of all the bizarre unexplained fragments. Which of the Losties will make it to the heart of The Island in Level (Season) 6 and claim victory? lol
Long post. Hope there is something of value here
May 7th, 2009 at 7:50 am
Jack becomes Jacob. “I have never been more certain of anything.” (Famous last words) We know Jack initiates the incident, then there’s probably some last minute complication with the bomb or with Kate that he naturally has to fix and this displaces him from our dimension of time. Just as Ben and Widmore are perpetual adversaries, Locke’s foil and the only one I can imagine him wanting to kill is Jack. We’ve seen Jack already attempt to do the same to Locke. Finally, there’s the name. Could Jack just be a nickname for the more proper Jacob? Have we ever seen Jack’s name on a driver’s license or similar document?
Is anyone else amazed at how quickly some character conflicts get smoothed over as those involved begin working together again. Sun only recently paddle-whacked Ben and now they’re march mates. I guess they only have each other, but this has happened many times before.
Locke, as leader of the others, has become every bit as devious and ruthless as Ben if he’s actually going to kill Jacob. I was struck at first by the non-responsive response he gave to Sun. Will this help me reunite with Jin? “I don’t think we went through all this for nothing.” That’s not an answer! Later, he flat out lies to her saying “absolutely” with a smile on his face. He’s toying with Richard and Ben smugly from the vantage of his new omniscience. Maybe it’s because he thinks he’s finally seen through the big conn to discover the man behind the curtain.
I love all things Lost when they’re done well so I have to say the paralovagram has never been better. That was really twisted bringing Kate on to the sub just as you felt you’d reached an emotional high point and closure with Jim & Jules. Equally as good were the scenes that Jack and Kate shared and whether they had a history of misery or a legacy of love. Could she have said anything more brutal than the stuff about Jack not knowing what he’s doing and being like Locke when he was at his most gullible and clueless worst? For all the J-haters, she’ll have another chance in the finale to “be with him” and have his back.
The ship in a bottle: another snow globe and magic trick in one.
Radzinsky’s a madman. How great is it that he’s going to lead an expedition out after the Others only to find they’ve abandoned their village in a mass exodus? As others have mentioned, the exodus theme reappears to great effect in another instance of the echo chamber of events. We also had the dive through the pool simulating Charlie’s dive to the Looking Glass and a captive character receiving yet another thrashing.
There’s so much to say. Obviously, this was a great episode to set up the fork in the outlet after last week’s average effort . Can’t wait for the podcast.
Defend the island.
May 7th, 2009 at 8:09 am
unless i’m mistaken radzinsky is leading an army to the others’ camp in ‘77 while it is the ‘07 camp that has made an “exodus”. unless i missed something only ellie and richard left the ‘77 others’ camp. right?
May 7th, 2009 at 8:11 am
Mike: I don’t think that the tunnels where Jughead is hidden is the same place as the temple. They may be connected somehow, but I don’t think so as they are some distance apart.
Rich in Cleveland: I have always thought that the names “Jack” and “Jacob” were too close to be a coincidence and would not be surprised to find out they were one in the same. Locke and Jack have been adversaries just about from Day One, and to have them lock horns in some final battle between Science and Faith would be fantastic. It is also possible that Richard Alpert and Ben Linus KNOW that Jacob is Jack and have to protect his identity at all costs. For Jack to be Jacob would mean that his time loop goes WAY back!
May 7th, 2009 at 8:15 am
I was wondering something and would very much like some input. When Jacob asked Locke to “Help me”, could this actually have been a future Locke? Sort of like it was actually the future Locke who sent Richard to take the bullet out of his leg when he was time travelling.
May 7th, 2009 at 8:16 am
cat: Thanks for the invite. I have already told my husband that we HAVE to go to Oahu within the next year to do the Lost tour and perhaps catch a glimpse of some of the players. It will be our last chance to do so! Unfortunately, he doesn’t share my passion for the Lostiverse and thinks we are all pretty ridiculous…I should start calling him Frogurt or start looking for some logs for him to carry…hmm.
May 7th, 2009 at 8:38 am
Rich: Love the Jack/Jacob idea… I was thinking exactly the same before I read your post for 1 big reason that nobody seems to talk about:
Richard told Sun that he saw everyone die!!!!
I think he saw them “disappear” during the “incident” but I think they “woosh” away in time/space/dimention/whatever becoming “Jacob”. And I was thinking, did anyone ever mentioned Jacob before 1977?
But I know that this can’t be right due to something I read on IGN… To bad!
May 7th, 2009 at 9:27 am
I can save the Comicon video:
Faraday died so he can’t make the video? Welll… Yami died but could speak to Eko. Christian died but can hold a lantern and do some rockingchair…
So I think the video is canon. Faraday/smoke monster went visit and told everything he knew about 2004 to Chang and then knowing he could not change the “present/past” decided to change the future. We even see the beginning of Chang yelling to his wife!
May 7th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Star wars analogies:
If Miles had acknowledge the fact that he was Pierre Chang’s son when Faraday said so, Faraday would still be alive! Just like the “loosing his hand” for Luke… and like Hurley had predicted (and he also predicted he would be asked the name of the president! He asked that question to Sawyer!).
All those dead people rooming the Island… just like Ben/Yoda telling everyone what they should do next!
May 7th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Whoa. John wants to kill Jacob?? Is Locke even sure that Alpert is leading him to Jacob? There’s a chance that Alpert and Ben conspired to mislead John to thinking that he is going to see Jacob but will kill him instead.
Also, it appears that the getting the Oceanic 6 back in the island is the island’s idea afterall (conveyed via John Locke). Locke mentioned on the scene where Alpert is taking the bullet off of John’s thigh that he is getting information from the island.
I am hoping that that the final “cliff-hanger” scene won’t be too intense as it will be a torture waiting for LOST’s final season.
May 7th, 2009 at 10:01 am
@Yann, Jacob was mentioned by Locke to RA in 1954 to prove he was the future leader, and RA seemed to think that the mention of Jacob was enough proof to make young Widmore put down his gun so he could talk to Locke.
I was thinking about when Sun & Lapidus see Christian at the barracks and how no one saw the previously-dead Locke until after this point. I think whatever energy or life source that was using Christian’s body to communicate with the living is now in Locke’s dead body. I think Christian’s body was used for Sun and Lapidus because they did not know him. Then Locke’s previously dead body showed up in the water mysteriously and is used because that is the body recognized by the “Others” as their leader and because Ben, Sun, and Lapidus know Locke.
Locke’s body referred to the time-traveling Locke in the third person, making me think he does not see the living Locke as himself. Further, RA was unsure of the new Locke and noted that there was something different about him. I have never seen RA worried about anything before so the way he was looking at new Locke makes me think he knows it’s not the same person, too.
This might tie in to why the Others disposed of dead bodies in different ways, like the floating pyre, requesting Paul’s body, recovering the bodies of the dead others, etc. Perhaps the threat of a spirit or energy manifesting itself in the body of a human is a particular threat, especially if they do not know that the person is dead. Work hazard of being an Other, I guess.
Why would the Other’s interpret Faradays bomb-neutralizing advice as putting it in an open-air tunnel? One Other had chemical burns in 1954 and Goodwin did in 2004, obviously that was not the same as burying it in cement and sealing it with lead…?
I don’t understand why Faraday and now Jack think the sacrifice of the people currently on the island is worth the price to avoid their plane from crashing in 2004? What kind of twisted logic is that? And why would any Others be for it, doesn’t Eloise realize that she will not be having a son at all versus killing him 30 years later since they would not likely survive the explosion?
I thought the Dr. Chang/Hurley exchange was the best comedic scene of the entire series thus far.
If enough of us want to go to Hawaii for the finale maybe we can overtake the cheap motel where it’s Miles childhood home? Safety in numbers?
May 7th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Paulo: I wonder if it is even POSSIBLE to kill reanimated Locke!
May 7th, 2009 at 10:13 am
@christy: blowing up the H bomb in 1977 wont be sacrificing anyone because if they do it and are successful flight 815 will have never crashed and therefore Jack and co. will have never gone back in time to blow up the bomb. Detonating the H-bomb will “remove” them from that time loop and things will go on/ will have gone on just as they would have had the plane never crashed. At least that is what Faraday (and now Jack) think.
May 7th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Forgot most recent random theory: All the time travel skipping was course-correcting.
1954 – Faraday gives directions on putting the bomb somewhere safe. Also, Locke establishes his future self as the leader of the Others.
1990’s or early 2000’s – Locke tells Ethan he is the leader of the Other’s after Benjamin Linus prior to getting shot. (this may also have been why Ben was the leader, he may never have been intended as the leader except Locke tells Ethan that he is – self-fulfilling prophecy)
Post 2007 crash #1 – Locke gets guidance from dead Locke via Richard Alpert that he will have to die to return with the O6.
Post 2007 crash #2 – Steal boat from Aljira people and cause an armed conflict (no known reason yet, but perhaps a play to get the upperhand for dead Locke since they may be there to go to war with him and his people, one canoe lost, maybe one person dead)
Ancient 4-toed Statue times – to leave Charlotte’s dead body to “Lie in the shadow of the statue” – now she will always be a part of the island.
1988 #1 – not sure, maybe to make Rousseau paraniod and crazy, more likely to give up Alex
1988 #2 – ditto ??
1974 – Get the O4 to the time when they can have unfettered access to the DI and to try to prevent (or cause) the incident.
Perhaps the time skipping was meant to ensure that Locke would be the leader at one time since he then was able to have a tradition of telling Others he would be their leader, like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I’m not sure if I got the dates in the right order, and I probably missed some.
May 7th, 2009 at 10:21 am
I must say it was a very smart move from the writers to get Sawyer and Juliet together. Now we don’t want Kate to ruin it. But also, we kind of don’t want Kate to be with Jack, cause he would willingly erase their whole relationship (heartless bastard). I felt like it was a huge reference to Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind – a film I recommend to every can-the-past/future-be-changed idea fan.
With just a few seconds of screentime Sayid’s character was redeemed in my mind. Awesome comeback!
May 7th, 2009 at 10:23 am
@bertran, I realize that Jack thinks he will undo the 815 crash, but the unintended consequence will be the death of the remaining people that are not time travelers that currently inhabit the island, like the DI, Others, etc.
There will be no Faraday to love Charlotte who leaves the island because Eloise will likely die when she is pregnant with him. I don’t think they expect blowing up the bomb to change the pre-1977 events.
Unless I am missing something else?
May 7th, 2009 at 10:36 am
One more thing – I agree that the future WILL be changed one way or another –
R.A. told Sun that he saw the 1977 losties die. But we still have one season ahead oh us. They won’t just kill half the cast.
May 7th, 2009 at 10:41 am
@christy: I think the “safety key” of the Swan was the atomic bomb… Faraday said that the 2 energies should compensate. Leading to no domages at all instead of lots of dead people, a hatch to control the energy discharge, a plane crash and a Desmon.
But I guess when the choice was brought to Razinski and Chang they thought the atomic bomb was too risky and so they build the hatch and keep the atomic bomb for safety mesure if the hatch happened to be inoperative.
May 7th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Connie:
This is LOST we are talking about. ANYTHING is possible!
May 7th, 2009 at 10:45 am
if it works it would create a paradox that would be unexplainable and unable to take hold… like the whole killing Hitler bit. If you build a time machine, go back in time, kill baby Hitler, then no one ever hears of the dictator Hitler. So if you build the machine who would you be going back in time to kill? nobody. Because you never even heard of Hitler. But if you don’t he’ll be fine and become a dictator… and you’d try to kill him as a baby.
If Jack undoes everything and changes the history of the island then who undid everything and changed the history of the island? It cannot happen unless the changes are subtle and lead him to the same place… like the Loche bit.
He tells R. Alpert what to do with the compass and the bullet in the leg. That resulted in subtle changes in what could have been but no drastic alterations that stopped what was going to happen anyway.
May 7th, 2009 at 11:00 am
I hope Miles runs into Faradays’ body, so he can get some last minute information, while he still can.
Seeing Daniels body makes me so sad, though!
May 7th, 2009 at 11:04 am
“The Compass: what’s up with the compass? It has no origin except in a circular self-referential way.”
This is driving me nuts. It does seem as though the compass has no origin.
May 7th, 2009 at 11:05 am
@Yann- Actually, Locke mentioned Jacob when they traveled to the 1950s, and Richard seemed to know who he was talking about.
I really feel like when Daniel said “fill the crack in this bomb, encase it in concrete and bury it underground” he did NOT mean, “fill the crack and build a temple around it.”
As to Jack being Jacob, due to casting information that might be a rumor (but has reportedly been confirmed by several sources) convinces me otherwise. I personally feel like this ‘Kill Jacob’ plan is the worst idea ever and Locke is practically a cult leader, but that’s just me. Perhaps by ‘help me’ he did mean ‘kill me’. One idea I’ve had is that perhaps killing Jacob will ‘free’ Claire from his control, and cause Christian to stop appearing.
Radzinsky is on a serious power trip. Personally I hope Whatever Happened, Happened so he definitely ends up as the brain stain in the Swan! No one beats Dawyer toa pulp and gets away with it! Well, except for Sayid, Jack, Pickett… everyone…
The sub moment was priceless. It’s so cute with Sawyer and Juliet together and finally escaping that island, and then Kate. Ruins. Everything. She just climbs in and everything is awkward and ruined. I really was kind of shocked when it seemed like she was shot (in the same style shot as Daniel) but I thought that was a great fake-out by the writers.
Sayid to the rescue! I thought the man he shot was going to be important- maybe someone we knew (maybe Tom) but I guess he was just there to die.
They had better not blow up that bomb. Everyone would die, and I feel like killing everyone is not an acceptable solution to their problems. Would out ’70s Losties die right there, as it’s their present? Or would their minds be transported back to the plane? And still, most of the people on that plane had serious issues.
Richard is not as all-knowing as we thought… But still incredibly attractive and old. I agree that the ship in a bottle is either a reference to the Black Rock or the ’snowglobe.’
I thought this was an excellent episode jam-packed with setup and reveals! I was surprised there were no flashbacks of any kind, and I’m really anticipating next week. I have loads more thoughts, but I think this post is long enough already!
May 7th, 2009 at 11:06 am
I suppose Richard has always had the compass. Its his. He gives to Locke twice. Locke only has it once.
Hrm. Im gonna do my homework with that. Pretty mind puzzling!
May 7th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
@Laura and @ Knives,
I think in Locke’s lifeline, he has the compass first.
Locke first gives the compass to Richard from Flashing Locke’s 2004 self to RA’s 1950’s self. RA keeps it (shows it to Little Locke in 1960’s) until Dead-Locke asks for it in 2007, and they go on the drug plane “errand”, where Locke gives it to RA to give to Flashing 2004 Locke. Then the cycle repeats.
Clear as mud? Yeah, me too!
May 7th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Dang it, I tried going a whole 24 hours without a nosebleed.
Thanks my fellow Texan, Christy.
May 7th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Huge question: We know baby Miles, Charlotte, and other non-essential personnel of the DI make it back to the mainland. Then we see Sawyer & Kate returning to the island. I know the Galaga was really booking (cool shot), but how could it make the journey there and back in 4 hours? Thta’s no ordinary undersea travel.
@Katie
My brain’s braided like a twizzler!! They should give that line to Hurley someday.
@Kaysea & CuedblU
Has Sawyer changed? Did he just revert to survival first mode and seemingly abandon his friends? Hurley’s faith in him at that moment was particularly ironic. When Sawyer said “good riddance,” you could read the insincerity in his eyes. He put a brave face over the old vulnerability about being banished from this place that allowed to overcome his demons and perhaps make himself into the person he always wanted to be.
@ Bertran
Oops. Would it make sense if I’d said the statue-worshippers? Twizzlered.
@ cat
Great episode, but not better than “Greatest Hits,” the emotional farewell to Charlie Pace.
@Christy in TX
Love the idea of taking over the Oahu dive.
@Knives
Please do find out about the compass. I don’t have the full history straight in my head.
May 7th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Knives – great point re: Miles and Faraday, I never even thought about his reading Faraday’s last thoughts.
May 7th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Firstly, please no spoilers of even the smallest nature. I am one of those fans who reads and watches nothing before an episode so please don’t assume that everyone is familiar with any revelations from the advertisement for next week’s episode.
This was a wonderful episode of Lost. In the last half of this season, I’ve found the story amazing but also a bit disjointed and structurely unsound. I think the creators knew where characters had to be for the season finale so they would get them there (e.g. Jack and Kate at the DI) but then have nothing for them to do until we got near the end. So, a bit like a stop start game of chess, each episode would see some characters move forward in story, some not move and some not seen at all (e.g. Locke was missing for a few eps and Desmond has been missing most of the season). I can’t really call it a criticism though. I think the creators have made a story that’s now too big for this episodic format. I think if they set out to make a twelve-hour movie of Season 5, rather than episodes, you would probably put the story together differently and it wouldn’t feel so disjointed. Maybe this is the season more than any other where it is best watched in one sitting on DVD.
Regardless, this episode I think was so strong because all that disjointed manoeuvring is finally paying off. We had three fast paced, interesting and coherent storylines that built to a wonderful conclusion. Classic Lost. The last few episodes have brought the character horses to their story stalls, as it were (using a horse racing metaphor here), and this episode opened the gates and they started to run. Okay, may have pushed the metaphor too far but you get the idea. The story couldn’t run to the Incident until the characters were in place.
Here’s my theory on Jacob. Jacob is God-like, which might make him a God, of God or simply have God-like powers. I’m reluctant to use the word God because it has religous connotations so some people might think I mean the Christian God. I don’t. Think of it more like the concept in material form, a supernatural being with power over life and death (which, for example, is interpreted and named as God by many religions). One of his powers then is death. It is Jacob, like God I suppose, that makes us die; that ensures that we do not live forever. The island is Jacob’s tool in wielding this power (remember, this place is death), and the dead, of course, resent Jacob for doing this to them and they are beginning to resist. Firstly Christian (dead of course) imprisons Jacob in his cabin and begins to take over. Then he orchestrates Locke to turn the wheel, die off island and return dead. The returning Locke can thus kill Jacob and the dead can then live again. Yes, this may make Lost a show about zombies in season 6 (which many people have been dreading) but it would set the scene for any upcoming war between the living and the dead. So who’s good and bad in this scenario? I can’t say. Perhaps humans need not die at all and Jacob is the evil monster who makes our lives painfully short. Or perhaps Locke is the unnatural evil being and Jacob is the force of good. Maybe it’s a matter of interpretation.
In an episode with many fine scenes (Hurley and Chang was outstanding), I loved the moment when Richard had no idea what happened to Locke after he disappeared. And Locke in response is smug omniscience. In that moment I sensed an expanding of our timescale in regards to the island. Eloise and Richard might have had foreknowledge of many of the events we’ve seen over 30 years during season 5 but that’s all they know and, in terms of island history, it’s a fleeting moment. To me it felt like a neat indication (along with Eloise’s comment last week about not knowing what will happen next) that we’re about to open up our island history in the next season, which seems like a necessary step considering that we’ve got a 19th Century pirate ship and an ancient statue to explain.
I’m very much in the ‘whatever happened, happened’ camp so I don’t spend any time thinking about alternate futures nor do I think that somehow the show will end up negating the original 815 crash. And although I think I’ve got my head around pretty much all this time travel stuff, I just can’t explain the compass. It’s on a perpetual loop so exactly how old is the compass? Infinite? How can anything be infinitely old? If ‘whatever happened, happened’, then the first time the compass stays in Richard’s possession between 1954 and 2007 is the only time it stayed in its possession. It doesn’t happen more than once. Yet if you calculate it’s age, it is infinitely old. Richard, for example, says that the compass is rusted now, presumably after having it for 50 years. But he gives that rusted compass to Locke to give to himself, which means it was rusted when Richard got it in 1954. Does it then get rustier? How could that be?Does the island somehow make the compass new again when Locke travels back to 1954. See, my head is starting to hurt.
Finally, I agree that Richard only thinks the Losties will die because whatever happens with the Incident makes them disappear, which looks like they died. No doubt most if not all of them will end up back in 2007 (except maybe Juliet, who I think will die because it will make good drama) but I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them end up further in the past, possibly around Black Rock or the statue period. I think this will happen because if we are to learn about those periods in time and there are to be flashbacks about them, then it makes sense to have characters we know there rather than having to introduce a whole lot of new characters in the show’s final season. If this is the case, then perhaps Jack does go back and become Jacob. Jack is crucial to this show and I think ultimately the show will end up centring around him. Whatever leadership role Locke has now is only temporary until the true leader Jack emerges.
Sorry, I know this was long but if I’m going to write something, I may as well get it all out.
May 7th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
As usual here is my list of questions
Building a model-ship-in-a-bottle on a beach Really
Like if RA was in his office. Maybe he was…
Then why would the Others move from the DI baraks where they have lived for a dozen years to go into a tent camp on a beach ?
We see Ben alone on the beach, when he probably knows each Other personnally. Why not get reacquainted?
Seems that resurected Locke has found some insight rom the Island
Could he be Jacob himself?
Still Jacob exists in 1954 and the cabin is built in the 70’s by Horace
Why not simply burn it? That would make a nice bush fire for the «Moses» followers
Now how the hell was this sealed leeking H-bomb moved into this Egyptian cave ?
Dan did say bury it not get it underground in some cave
We now know that this «massive pocket of energy» is not the H-Bomb. Because where the bomb is the DI is not drilling Is it just an EM source ?
I cannot believe that an active H-Bomb coud lay next to this energy for 23 years without problem
Where was Sayid all this time? (since shooting Ben)
What made Chang change his mind ?
Why wont Sawyier tell the real story to the DI folx?
Is the DI out of thruth serum ?
I guess they didnt find time to slap question Kate…
I really liked the idea of investing in MS …
May 7th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
After reading Ryan and Jens blog, I have to ask…
Didn’t we all get a suspicious (is he good, is he bad) feeling of Locke when he was in season 1?
I feel that it isnt him acting foul or malicious, but more of assertive, concentrated, and focused regarding his current motive.
Nevertheless I recognize that ‘killing’ Jacob sounds pretty sour, or so we’re lead to believe. Who knows maybe the ‘help me’ was on the same tone of euthanasia…
May 7th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Great point Mirepoix, they could have used Oldham on Sawyer or Juliet, I wonder why they chose not to… Hrm… I guess their just racist towards Sayid!
NOT FAIR!
May 7th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Wow – lots of great stuff this week in the recap and comments, but the biggest thing I got out of it is PARTY FOR SEASON/SHOW FINALE IN 2010!!!
Been looking for a reason to return to HI and I’m coming from NY. We are sooo there!!!! =)
May 7th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
This episode was Grade-A Lostastic. Finally an episode without 10 minutes of interesting and 30min of sometimes mind-numbing exposition and spoon-fed answers!
We got to see:
1. Lost at its best; The right mix of answers, character development and enough WTH?! moments to keep me interested and excited to see what comes next. Ben totally shell-shocked, Richard re-siding with Ben in fear of John and the “Is Richard actually an evil force and the island wants him gone” vibe.
2. Sawyer was right that a ‘Tiger don’t change it’s stripes” and he quickly reverted into old Sawyer leaving everyone else behind to get blown up to save himself. =)
3. The best and most interesting version of John Locke since Season 1 when we all cared about “what is up with this guy?!”. I love how the show is forcing me into going back and forth between “Is this bad John? Bizzaro world John? Is it even really John?” Either way I love the ‘aint takin’ no guff’ Locke for better or worse.
But I have to agree with Ryan and Jenn… enough with Kate seriously. I have no qualms with Evie as an actress but her character has been the unwilling target of every stupid decision/moment that wasn’t taken up by Locke! Please stop with love-octagons no one cares anymore and we are just fine with Sawyer and Juliet together and Jack and Kate the divorced lovers.
May 7th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
kate is stupid. “since when is killing kids and blowing up hydrogen bombs okay?” – since it will save so many people. if the kid is ben – it’s totally worth it – he’s a murdering scumbag. i think it’s highly ironic that kate is basically the one who created him to be that way.
i hope juliet doesn’t die. she and desmond are my favorite characters, even though i’m not sure she can be trusted. i was so disappointed that she went with sawyer. of course, what were her other choices – phil or radzinsky? also, i think that eloise divorces (or whatever) charles widmore b/c he has a child with someone else – hello, penny! i’m so ready to have some answers. where is claire? what is in hurley’s case? what is in ilana’s case – and why?
also, i think jack blowing up the bomb is “the incident”. i mean, if whatever happened, happened – then he blew up the bomb already. i would think it would create quite an incident. but, i’ve decided that i’m not really smart enough/deep enough to watch this show.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
when i wrote earlier – i was disappointed that juliet would “go with” sawyer, i meant in the romantic relationship sense. i mean, to me, she is so much better suited for jack. and kate and sawyer are two peas in a pod. what is with these peeps that they can’t make up their minds who they love? it’s pretty clear that juliet is set on being with sawyer – but kate is just back and forth – just like she always has been. i think jack has given up on both of the women. and it does seem like sawyer loves juliet, but he’s stuck in a bad sitch with the two of them on that sub. yikes! why is it that sawyer is the one that both of these women want, and jack just gets their leftovers? it must be the bad boy thing. geez! women are such idiots.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Well I can agree with that, for the most part. Most girls are idiots. lol
May 7th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Well, to defend my gender she is uncommonly wishy-washy. Who else misses when all she did was go up to Jack and say, “I’m coming with you!” get turned down, then follow 10 minutes later? Who misses when our biggest problems were the Others?
And I totally agree that the scene with the sub looked like… a video game or something.
Plus, for all we know, that bomb is in the case.
May 7th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
I bet Locke assumes the the role of Jacob, who never existed in the first place.
Locke saw himself for a breif second when he looked into Jacob’s cabin a few seasons ago.
In front of our eyes, Locke is becoming Jacob
May 7th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
what a great episode
John from NC, i’m with you with the” Holy Freaking Crap” lol
“I WATCHED THEM ALL DIE”. That line just made me scream and it’s driving me crazy. They are all going to die so that the masterplan is done isn’t it? It would be crapy but i think its true. Hope i’m wrong though.
An interesting thing I noticed is that John says to Ben when they are waiting for R.A in the jungle: “THE ISLAND TELLS ME THINGS”. I believe now that JACOB IS BAD, and the Island Spirit (smokey maybe?) is actually good. I don’t know i may have a permanent nosebleed from this episodee
May 7th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Since Ryan talked about Locke’s dark side in the blog and DaveWR brought up questioning Richard in his comment, I wanted to post my own musings on the two of them:
I really wasn’t impressed with the last episode that centered around Ben and John. I liked it but it wasn’t a favorite. Everything that we got from this episode with Ben, John and Richard, though, was wonderful. More than other characters, I keep wanting to label John and Richard in particular as either “good” or “bad.” Like all the characters, I know it is likely they aren’t complete good or completely bad/evil but it is looking like John Locke is at once using Richard to point himself in the right direction in his timeline-past as well as to get to Jacob while at the same time Locke is perhaps about to destroy Richard’s life as he knows it by killing Jacob. I’m still on the fence as to whether I believe he wants to literally or metaphorically kill Jacob but either way, I’d be pretty surprised if Richard likes the idea of John killing Jacob. So, similar to wondering if Jack or Kate is the right one about the hydrogen bomb, I have to wonder if John is right to want to destroy Richard’s life by killing Jacob, thus meaning that Richard’s relationship with Jacob is harmful to the Island or our Losties or the greater good or whatever … thus making John good and Richard bad? Or is Richard, along with Jacob, doing what is necessary for the Island, the Losties, the greater good, whatever … thus making Richard good and John bad? There were times in this show when I felt that John had turned pretty dark but also times when I thought we might be seeing more of a hint that Richard may not be working for the best interests of his people and the Island like I’ve always thought. I mean, we’ve known all along that the DI views him and his people as Hostiles, which doesn’t necessarily condemn them in my eyes but you have to wonder where Dharma came up with the term? And we also know that Richard took part in exterminating Dharma so there’s a dark side there too, as well as him giving Locke the information necessary to get Sawyer to kill Anthony Cooper. So even though I’ve always had some evidence that Richard may not be a beneficent adviser, I still have always viewed him that way and would still be surprised and maybe even disappointed if it turns out that he’s not “one of the good guys.” … Or it could be none of the above, which is very possible, especially if John is now finally able to help Jacob, as he asked in their first “meeting.” If that is the case, it’s possible that Richard has been doing everything he can for the greater good by following Jacob’s orders (assuming Jacob is good) but it has to be Locke to actually help him, making both Richard and Locke good. Man, I love Lost.
DaveWR, I do agree that this episode put Richard Alpert’s goodness into question but I disagree that Sawyer left the island, knowing that he was leaving his friends behind to get blown up. When Chang came in to talk about an evacuation, Sawyer had no idea about Jack’s plans to detonate the bomb, nor did Chang, nor did Miles, Hurley, Jin, or anyone other than those with Jack and the Others. You could argue that he should know there’s a chance that Hurley, Jin and Miles might be in trouble but he didn’t know they might be in mortal danger.
I also fail to see how Kate’s decision to go back to Dharmaville is somehow evidence that she’s the one dragging out these love connections we have going on. I think her reasoning was pretty sound when she said “since when is killing kids and blowing up hydrogen bombs ok?” Not only does she not want to be a part of what she views to be wrong, she’s hoping that others will help her stop Jack from following through with his plan. The writers are dragging this romantic mess out but it’s not like Kate as a character is thinking to herself, “well, now I need to leave Jack again so I can go ruin Sawyer and Juliet’s happy-ending.” I know she’s gone back and forth between them before because she’s confused about how she feels about them and that is very annoying … but I don’t think that’s what she is doing now.
Sorry, that much was longer than I intended.
May 7th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
What if the compass, a mere hand-held instrument that originates from nowhere, is the spark that causes the big bang of an entire errant timeline to emerge? Kind of like the film “Somewhere in Time” in reverse.
One flaw of the episode that didn’t fully occur to me until I read Ryan’s comments was the doubt expressed about Hawking’s motives for the use of Jughead. An H-bomb would entirely obliterate everything or would work its crazy negation magic on the exotic matter. There can be no thought of using it as a limited weapon against the DI because its destructive power makes this idea preposterous. You would blow up the island you’ve been commanded to defend and yourselves as well as any perceived enemy.
Where was Jack’s epiphany? I’ve been so thankful he finally woke up from his fatalistic lethargy that I didn’t stop to consider if his motives made sense. In a 24 episode season, we could have gone back to flashes of the pain over Sarah and Jack about to jump from the bridge, but maybe these have to remain implied to squeeze everything in. Just judging from the scene with Kate, I’m assuming that erasing the timeline is more of a selfish way to avoid suffering and that saving anyone who has been lost along the way is more of an afterthought.
May 7th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Great comment on Sun turning into Michael “where’s my husband” LOL.
May 7th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
I really am addicted to LOST, I may have to start going to clinics!
I was watching the season premier of Season 3, A Tale of Two Cities again.
I had only seen it once at that was when it premiered.
At any rate, it was Jack centric, and the flashbacks in the episode are about him going through his divorce with Sarah.
And in it, he wants to know the name of the man that she left him for. He begs her to tell him, and she never does.
In the episode Christian was going to A.A meetings and became sober for 55 days or so. Jack becoming enraged starts delusionally believing that Sarah cheated on Jack with Christian. Preposterous, I know.
Obviously Christian wasn’t having an affair with Sarah, but because of this outburst, Christian had slipped into alcoholism and relapsed. This was Jack’s fault…
Towards the end of the episode Jack begs to know that guys name once more to Sarah, to which she replies it doesn’t matter who he is, it matters who you’re not. Ouch, burn.
Bottom line is, when I saw this, I couldn’t help but think that it was significant. We see his face (this onminous man) but it was kind of blurry, and hard to make out. I think this could be Jacob. What if Jacob was responsible for not only Jacks life, but Christians, and all of our other Losties’ fate? What if Jacob…really is a person. A person that isn’t Jack, or Locke, or Richard, or the smoke monster, or somebody we already know. Or even Vincent. What if it’s a person whom we’ve potentially seen behind the curtain without realizing it? What if he’s this force that is responsible for our Losties destiny? What if he has been behind the picture?
Damn, I love lost, I’m gonna re watch every episode before the Season 5 Finale, The Incident.
God speed.
May 7th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Answer me one simple question…
Where the heck are Rose and Bernard?
May 8th, 2009 at 2:47 am
Jack didn’t decide to act because he has become the old John Locke. He doesn’t know what he’s doing, he’s just waiting for some “sign” to guide him, and Faraday was that sign. Now that Faraday pushed Jack forward, he’s babbling on about nonsense with not a clue of what he’s talking about much like John Locke of old. John Locke on the other hand has almost become the new Jack. Bold, strong, quick to make decisions, and not afraid of what other people think or do or care about him.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:16 am
@Rich in Cleveland – I think the beginning of Jack’s faith was when Locke told him that he met his dad on the island. Jack said he didn’t believe him, but that was when he booked a flight in hopes of crashing on the island. Ben tells Locke this and when Locke sees he’s inspired faith in Jack, he also starts to get faith again, but Ben kills him because he sees he doesn’t have the time to “talk him into killing” himself again. Although the O6 story has been drawn out and broken into such small bits it makes sense that after Jack sees Locke in the hospital we see the scene in Jack’s home with all the maps/charts strewn about in an apparent attempt to find a flight route over the island. Because soon after this is when he tells Kate they have to go back, and his downward spiral continues to gain velocity. Then, with the death of Locke, he gets a dose of sobriety and gets back on course with his faith – propelled by his conversation with Ben. That’s the best I can figure, anyway.
@Knives – are you watching the whole season or the whole SERIES before the finale? Come up for air, man! Perhaps you can read the episode synopsis page on lostpedia and select a few episodes that might have some forgotten nuggets of insight. Well, if you find a 12 step program here in TX for Lost, let me know, I will need to be next in line.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:30 am
I’m sure everybody has thought of this (and I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has already said this in the commentary, I just don’t have the time to run through them all…), but, who’d also predict that we’ll see a 60+ year old Kate, Sawyer, and Juliet in present day 2007? That’s what it seems to be leaning towards, and amoungst three people, they will be able to come up and remember important events of what to follow and whatnot.
I loved the Hurley and the Presidents scene. Me and history don’t mix, so if I was being questioned by Dr. Chang or sent on the Submarine with Sawyer, I’d be screwed just because I don’t have a particular interest in history. Sure I’ll know who wins the new elections, I just wouldn’t know what to put my money down on gaming events. The only advantage I’d get is getting rich off of making movie scripts (ala Hurley) and investing on some technology deals (DVDs as Miles put it).
-M
May 8th, 2009 at 5:37 am
Uhhh, did anyone notice: when Locke got shot in the leg he was CLIMBING up to the Beechcraft, it was 2007. In fact he saw it crash right? I don’t recall a flash in between him seeing it and him arriving at the site. I thought that plane fell down from the cliff in 2004? But clearly RA removes the bullet from Locke in 2007. Is this proof that something did happen, and that the past was changed, and 815 really did not crash? The 2007 island just does not seem right. I think things there are not as they should be, and I wonder if the Ilana gang is there for that reason, or are there to try to set things right some how?
So someone did manage to change the past. Or someone will manage to change the past.. or something.
May 8th, 2009 at 5:53 am
Just one question…When will the 1977 Losties remember that the pilot said the plane was 1,000 miles off course? If it never crashed on the island, they would not land in the USA.
May 8th, 2009 at 6:18 am
Pete, there was a flash from Locke climbing towards the plane to getting the bullet removed. Remember, Ethan shot Locke in the leg, making him fall from his ascent. Then Ethan was about to kill him and there was a flash, it was dark and Ethan was gone. So Locke seeing the crash and climbing to the plane was prior to the 815 crash. Richard taking the bullet from his leg was 2007.
May 8th, 2009 at 6:23 am
@Pete,
There was a flash between when Locke saw the plane crash and when he had Richard remove the bullet. Ethan shot him in the leg and thought he was lying when Locke told him that Ben made him their new leader, and was probably about to kill him when time flashed to the 2007 plane scene. Then Locke hobbled over to the post-Boone-using-the-radio plane scene when RA arrived and removed the bullet and gave Locke the compass.
I’m on the fence between whether I’m hopeful things can change or not. I keep looking for signs of change, too.
May 8th, 2009 at 7:24 am
Remember what Ben says when Desmond turns the failsafe? When asked what that flash was he says, “That was the end of the world.”
I think they built the swan station with the bomb as the fail-safe. My guess is they blow up the bomb a lot and every time it changes history.
May 8th, 2009 at 7:24 am
Welcome Pete to Team Change vs. WHH.
@Christy
I totally agree that Locke’s mention of Christian was the turning point for Jack and probably one of the most pivotal points of the entire season. That’s the moment that sets everything in motion for the return to the island. But after he arrives, Jack seems to adopt a very passive approach until something very recently wakes him up and spurs him to take action. We don’t really get to see what changed his mind and I’m just trying to explain it. I went with avoiding the broken heart/destructive despair route based on his conversation with Kate (over the altruistic “save them all” explanation.) To sum up, when he returned to the island, Jack felt a renewed sense of purpose. What convinced him exactly that detonating Jughead would be the fulfillment of that purpose?
Change is possible.
May 8th, 2009 at 8:18 am
I think Hurley may be the only one capable of changing the course of things on the island. Hurley and his guitar case.
I fear that hugo will be next to die, not Juliet. Like Charlie, he will die in order for others to live.
I hope i’m wrong. I love Hurley.
May 8th, 2009 at 8:51 am
For the 10th year in a row “Jacob” is the number one baby name chosen for boys…should we all be worried? With so many Jacobs running around, I hope Locke finds the right one.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Please refresh my memory… The hatch imploding – what really happened then? Might that have had anything to do with the hydrogen bomb?
May 8th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
@ Christy
Yes ma’am. Entire series. I’m allready on Season 4, and I still have 5 days or so left. I’ll take my time with that. lol, oh man.
I really need to go outside.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Knives, I have been watching all the seasons for the past couple of months off and on, and I have picked up a lot of things that I missed before. For example, watch Par Avion, Mikhael says he remembers Locke, but questions how he could have met him before, and when he is going to go futher he is cut off. I wonder if he was in the camp in the 50’s when Locke visited Richard.
There have also been several references to Jack’s watch (which was his grandfathers) and when he landed in 1977 the watch stopped working. Any Chance his grandfather could be Hanso? We don’t see him well in the Swan Video.
Also they can’t kill off Hurley, no way! I think that is the one character that people would really flip over if he died. Who knows he could be the last one standing.
I know Darlton said they won’t revisit the Dave character, but I always wondered if he was Libby’s husband, she said his name was David when she gave Desmond his boat.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
When are we going to find out more about Richard fondly known as eyeliner man? he never ages and seems to be devoted to the reigning leader, Ben and now Locke. An advisor Ben says who’s been around for a long long long time. Is he really Jacob?” I guess we now wait for season 6 for any answers on Richard and Jacob.
May 8th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
I loved this episode too…but I am disappointed in a few things…I think…
I will try to remember that Ben showed Sawyer that the Others were good con-men…but what I am getting at is that I am sort of let-down that Ben, Richard, and the Others / Hostiles don’t seem to have a clue as to what is going on. That’s at least how it is being played. Is it just me, or did this make Richard and Ben seem very weak? I mean, if they don’t know what the heck is going on then who does?
I had pictured them more ‘in the know’ than they are portraying. My guess is that they are conning Locke. Locke has always been succeptable to a con. Any con. It doesn’t even have to be a half-decent con. My little list of John Locke cons ( feel free to add more )
The kidney
The Hippie Commune / Cop,
The button??
The “Stand there next to the window as I prove to you I broke up with that woooooooomaaaaaannn”
The Walkabout?
The “Don’t hang yourself till I get some information from you first”
And my favorite of all time and perhaps the least well-known: The “I’m just a phone sex operator, not your girlfriend” con.
I’m not here to make any enimies, and I surely would love to join the finale party if that were to happen, but I have never had the affinity that some people do for John Locke. He’s not my idea of a hero. He has stabbed people ( Naomi ) in the back. It was pointed out arleady that he set up A. Cooper. He has been more selfish than any character in the fact that no matter what he did what he thought was best for himself and the island. He has stopped every attempt for people to get off the island. Radio signals, submarines, etc. If you ask me, he is the most anti-free-will person I have seen on the island, and yet people love him. Locke has faith, but blind faith if you ask me. Blind faith can lead to trouble. Look what Jack is about to get into. I think now that Jack and John have needed each other to ‘balance out’ their views.
Aside from that: It’s amazing to me that a few years ago we marveled and disucssed and debated endlessly at how a cripple man could walk, and now we barely flinch or question the fact that a dead man walks and talks. The island has changed us all a little I suppose. That’s why we love it so much.
Here’s to the hope that R.A. and Ben are not quite as clueless as they are acting. I don’t think we’ve ever had a scene where R.A. is present when “Smokey” is around. Perhaps R.A. is the ‘advisor’ of sorts to Smokey because in fact he IS smokey in it’s chosen human form. Thus he never ages. Maybe there are more than 1 Smoke Monster. One Dark, One Light. Perhaps each can form into people who are dead, thus a specific count and proper handling of the bodies. Perhaps John, Christian, and some others are manifestations of this other creature and now the two are about to clash. A war between Gods. Or some sort of game….Hmmmm…..
Some of this here seems to be what Christy in Tx was saying around 10:01AM…good thoughts Christy…of course that’s coming from a guy who’s NuckinFuts.
May 8th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Kate doesn’t give Jack any valid reasons for why not to detonate Jughead:
-Aaron would be born and adopted
-Sun and Jin would have a strained marrige, Jin still being brute and cold
-Kate herself would be hauled off to jail ( I was expecting her at least to pull “if its not for your sake, at least think of me”)
Its true that everyone would be alive, but everyone would still be the exact same way as when the left Sydney. Those who died on the island died as a testomony to their redemptions, and those still alive have changed for the better.
Also, i think that Jack, Kate and the other losties “deaths” (or so recalled by Richard) is due to the fact that, like Locke, they need to die and be resuected to be brought back to their own time.
thanks guys.
May 8th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Only with a show like Lost can each subsequent episode get better.
Regarding Jack=Jacob, although that seems the most plausible, it would be in true Lost fashion if Jacob is something completely unexpected, even different than not existing.
It seemed to me that Richard and Ben displayed a disturbing familiarity with each other that hinted at a deeper hidden agenda on the march to see Jacob. When Locke delcared to Ben that he was going to kill Jacob, my initial interpretation of Ben’s reaction was as if Ben was reacting to his own death. I’m not suggesting that Jacob is Ben, that is simply preposterous, but rather that Jacob is a real entity and that if he can die, then the end result is probably worse than that of any Others/DI war or Jughead detonation or Incident. Although the man behind the curtain is a popular and plausible conjecture of Jacob, I don’t think the story line has shed any light on that possibility yet.
Regarding Rose and Bernard, what if the reason we don’t see them is that their time snap puts them back on course in the correct present/future and they are not time traveling because the Universe has corrected their course. In a previous post several episodes back, I suggested that maybe they were the Adam and Eve from when the Losties went to the caves in season 1. Although I still like that idea, I’m not so sure now with all that has happened this season.
Regarding Sawyer leaving the island, I don’t think he reverted back to his old selfish ways. Although he was glad to be getting away from the Island for good, he was afterall in handcuffs and forced onto the submarine.
May 8th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
@Knives
Can you just imagine our friend all dissheveled after his 100 hour marathon and maybe even in denim accosting loved ones and strangers with desperate pleas that “We have to go back!” Get some rest. We need everyone alert for the finale. I myself have to mix in some othe fare, though I’ll probably miss a Cavs playoff game on the 13th. It’s a sacrifice the island demands.
@ Carol
I believe the faux hesitation you picked up on from Mikhail was when he questioned the identity of Locke because “The John Locke I know was p……(aralyzed).” We hadn’t seen A. Cooper toss him from the window at that point. Mikhail was subtly trying to verify the miracle that instantly qualified Locke to be leader of the others.
I have to throw in a comment about the boar/pig Locke brought with him to camp. There have been a number of pig references that to me represent some kind of dehumanization taking place, much like another island adventure when the perpetually lost Odysseus and his men meet up with Circe the witch and she converts them by their weakness into animals, most notably swine. The scene in “Follow the Leader” was a direct comment on the scene in which Locke bore his dead father on his back to the others camp. It perhaps suggests that pre-island selves or mere non-other mortals who haven’t been reborn in the Temple are only beasts to a superior, but drained-of-innocence type of being. Juliet in particular has always troubled me. She went from this meek and mousey doormat to a ninja warrior, model of calm, spending every waking moment with the others devoted to science, language, literature, etc. She never quite got that cooking thing down though until recently though.
@ Evan
There are probably more good personal arguments in favor of not undoing the experiences and growth of the survivors of 815. But what if this chain of events was “never supposed to happen” and had catastrophic consequences for the world at large? Those are the kind of stakes I’m hoping to see.
May 8th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
I loved the Richard Alpert/Locke compass time loop moment there, very nifty concept! But the weird thing about it, aside from the infinite confusion of where/when the compass originated, is the fact that they seem to be revealing to us that Alpert really does not know as much as we thought he did! When Locke was visited by Alpert in-between flashes early in the season and he told Locke how to stop the flashes, it seemed like Richard knew a whole hell of a lot about the island, and understood the time-shifting business, although he didn’t seem to be experiencing it. But now we see that he’s actually pretty clueless, and Locke was just feeding him the information.
At this point it seems like Locke knows way more about the island than anyone else… The island told Locke where the smoke monster originates, but it didn’t even seem to tell Richard about this whole time traveling phenomenon or Locke dying and being brought back to life. He seemed genuinely surprised when he heard about all this.
May 8th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
My thoughts in brief (cos my brain is too muddled by it all)
*Jacob is linked to the incident. The juxtaposition between what is being told in the present and in the 70’s, would imply they are (dramatically) linked (similar to other reveals between past-present that we have had before)
*Jacob is someone we know from 77. Possibly Jack (though there has been chatter that its Jacks Grandfather cos of the biblical connotations of Jacob and Aaron… shrugs)
*Locke is wanting to release Jacob. Jacob is trapped in the cabin we presume.
*Juliet will die, got no particular reason, just sense it.
*We will discover the reason Miles can sense the history of dead people. Perhaps its caused by him touching his child-self, who knows.
*Whatever happened, happened. FULL STOP. nothing will be changed. We’re being re-led down the path of possibility, and the finale will zing us with the ultimate realization that everything WILL always be the same.
AND MY FAR-FETCHED THEORIES
*The incident transports the ‘77 losties into 93. I sense the purge is the ultimate end of the series, and will require the current 77 losties to resolve the paradox of their existence, by destroying there current selves.
*Awesome time-loop possibilities ( I really wanna know how likely you think these are… ignoring anything revealed by the preview for the finale)
-Sawyer IS Sawyer (aka his father). Once leaving the island, he becomes a drunkard, and inadvertently becomes the man he despised, moreso than ever (did adult conman sawyer ever touch younger sawyer?)
-Desmonds baby Charlie is Drug-Addict Charlie. This would require baby charlie being taken away from present-day desmond, and placed into the family we know druggie charlie to have lived with. Perhaps he was adopted.
Thoughts?
May 8th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Actually… scrap the sawyer is sawyer remark. I forgot about Anthony Cooper (the kidney conman)
May 9th, 2009 at 2:01 am
Once again, well done, folks. And glad to see your thoughts about this episode’s upside as opposed to other penultimate episodes was the same as mine:
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/710espn/blog?id=3937846&post=4149667
May 9th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Aloha! Love the Transmission, firmly my favourite Lost podcast and definitely the most professional! plus all the location sightings make me want to flee London and fly to the Hawaiian Sun in a heartbeat.
Just a quick thought leading on from the tunnels in “Follow my leader” that can only be accessed by swimming underwater: was Richard Alpert wet through when he entered the Dharma camp in the episode “LaFleur”?
May 10th, 2009 at 1:18 am
The only way that landing in LA would work would be if ALL the characters that have died could be there. It is clear that Eko and Libby won’t be back, even in Libbys case to fill in her back-story. I trust the writers not to go down that road and leave us with five years of “wasted” time. If they do I think LOST may have gone too far I just don’t see how they could write them out of that one and retain even some hold on the history that we have accumulated ……. so that makes it more likely then.
The H-bomb won’t go off. Not sure what will happen to stop it. Perhaps the bomb is too old and is unable to go off. I don’t know how H-bombs work but maybe all the hydrogen has leaked out so there is nothing left for the fusion reaction.
May 10th, 2009 at 7:37 am
Ah, it seems that there are two distinct compasses:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9727/2bouussoleseu7.jpg
May 10th, 2009 at 9:12 am
First, I love the podcast.
Second, about “Follow the leader”, what a great episode!!!. Michael Emerson and Josh Holloway were both so awesome in it.
The bad thing, I’ve got the feeling that the only reason to kill off Faraday was to give Jack something to do. And, I really hope that whatever happened happened and they won’t erase the past, I would hate it.
May 10th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
A question regarding ‘First Aid’ Locke – and I’ll have to check lostpedia or rewatch to verify – unless someone can beat me to it.
When Ethan shot Locke – that had to be before Ethan’s death in about 2004, did Locke flash into the future, when they found him at the beechcraft?
THanks in advance.
May 10th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Hey
Old on a minute
How come the aiport security is recovering a letter in a coffin
But would miss out on a huge box full of guns or weapons
Come on !
To which Knives would answer
Its a TV series you dummy ! Its Lost
Anything can happen
Yeah right …
May 10th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Mirepoix : maybe they checked them like Locke checked his knives…do they have permits for an arsenal??
May 10th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Well first we cant say what is or is not in The Box.
for all we know its The Magic Box.
May 10th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
@ Rich
I hope so too, but i just think yet again, Kate’s way of trying to go about
handling something was weak.
i also think that Jack already knows all the reasons, but he is just too stubborn, it wouldnt really matter to him anyhow.
May 10th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
So given that we usually get some gamechanger at the end of a season what will it be this year ?
a. they all appear to die (just like Alpert said)
b. they land in LA fine in 2004 (oh please no)
c. they are thrown into the future (beyond 2009)
d. they are thrown into the distant past (Black Rock or Four Toe time)
e. something else
May 10th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
108 bucks on E. Something Else
xxxwest sayidxxx
May 10th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
i think that the fork in the outlet will be Jughead exploding!
May 10th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
$864 on “a”-They will appear to die…but the final 10 seconds or so will give us just enough hope to last us for next eight months. Would love to see Charlie Pace as the last character on the screen.
May 11th, 2009 at 3:12 am
I put my money on e. something. This show challenges us by taking us somewhere we haven’t thought of, yet
.
May 11th, 2009 at 3:56 am
I have a feeling we will have a hugo episode this week, they still haven’t revealed why he agreed to come back to the island and what is in the guitar case.
What could he possibly have in there that is so important?
How long do you think that the Oceanic 6 have back on the island? Is there any chance we’ll see Desmond out of the hospital and part of the plotline?
Rich in Cleveland – I think you are exactly right about Locke and Mikhael, I forgot that he knew everything about all the losties. Great observation.
I am looking forward to Wednesday. I just wish my husband was a fan, I have already told him he has to let me just have the family room to myself, I need quiet. Usually I have to listen to him typing on the computer, having loud snacks like chips, nothing too loud but somehow when I am trying to watch Lost all these sounds seem really loud.
May 11th, 2009 at 4:11 am
I watch lost from 5:00 because of the clip show(a journey in time), but i usually watch it from 6:00 pm pacific time. so three hours from 5 = 8:00 and a repeat starts at 8- 11:00pm. That is six hours of non stop lost!!!!!!!
May 11th, 2009 at 4:37 am
Some would say we need a life, lol. And we will, on thursday!
May 11th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
“for all we know its The Magic Box.”
I can’t listen to Kwik Trip (convience store here in the Midwest) commercials on the radio anymore. A woman describes how great KT is because she can get milk, bananas, a pizza for dinner, and then be home early! It’s her “magic box”!
My husband and I now add..”plus it transports my kids to a bizarro tropical island!”
May 11th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
@ AnnLouise
That’s pure gold! ^_^
May 11th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Hi from across the pond!
Just want to say I love your podcast.
Great episode this week – cant wait for the final one.
Ive just watched the comic con video to see what everyones talking about – I think it sounds more like Miles’ voice behind the camera.
I think that when they heard all the voices around Jacobs hut that time it could be Locke, Ben, Richard & the others & the voices are filtering through the different times – Hope that makes sense!
Looking forward to hearing your next podcast
Vanessa
May 12th, 2009 at 2:05 am
Not sure if I’m repeating someone elses point about Kate – and I must admit, her antics throughout the whole series are alternatively tiring, logicless and irritating – but her motivations are reasonably clear in this episode. She’s simply out for Kate. At a sociopathic level.
Does a bomb blowing up help Kate? Nope. Therefore, time to abandon Jack! Next step… is a bomb gonna blow up on the island? Maybe! So time to put major space between Kate and the Island in the space of a few hours. How to do that? Hitch a ride on the sub!
To me, the writers are in a corner with Kate; its impossible to make a character like her audience friendly if you are going to remain consistant to her motiviations, which seem to have not changed throughout the series – even Aaron times have been exposed by Cassidy as being Kate-centric.
May 12th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
If the bomb goes off, may that is what’s causing the infertility on the island?
May 12th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Connie, cat, et al: I’d be totally up for a Lost reunion! Let’s do it! I’d already mentioned the possibility to my poor beleaguered BF a while back, and if there are a few other people on board, I may be able to force him into it!
Btw, if people have not seen this and want a fresh hit of Lost material, it’s worth looking at: It’s on the ABC Web site and is called “Missing Pieces: http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/index?pn=index.
Let me know if anyone checks it out!
It is 13 very short segments that essentially add new material and clues to scenes that have already been aired. It’s a bit old now, but definitely worth seeing if you haven’t. You may see Vincent in a whole new light!
May 12th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
I favor E, something else. Someone on the podcast mentioned the white flash with the detonation of Jughead. I can totally envision that. Follow it with Jack waking up in a hospital bed with Christian there to treat him, leaving us to wonder where or when he is, if the plan was successful, or even if any of this ever happened. And thud.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:30 am
In answer to my own ‘poll’ I prefer E also.
My bet is everyone gets back together in 2007. Either by FDW or perhaps by some method involving the Incident which must involve the Swans special EM properties and Jughead in some combination.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:45 am
@Vanessa – On the Official Podcast, the producers say outright that it was Jeremy Davies’ (Farraday) voice on the ComicCon Video, but that it was promotional material, not canon. I think theories down this road can be safely abandoned.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:43 am
@Tori
Thanks for the link. My only concern with those is that if the 2008 Comic-con video is non-canon what about everything else not in the show …. the ARGs, the previous Comic-con videos, the missing pieces etc and so on.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:46 am
Hi, Mark B– Yeh, I hear ya! Gives us a chance to see a little more of the actors and to churn up a few new goofy theories, tho!
August 11th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
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