Next: “The Variable” (Episode 5×14)
If the size of the post-thud headache is a reliable metric in evaluating the quality of an episode, “The Variable” may take top prize for Season 5. Jen and I are still trying to sort out the possibilities and impossibilities presented tonight. The man who preached emphatically that you can’t change the past finally returns, now emphatic that you can. Even our characters recognize the insanity of undoing everything that’s happened (essentially erasing the entirety of “LOST” to date). But just as Daniel Faraday gets rolling, he’s shot dead. By his mom. A mother who knew, in 2007, that he was sending his memory-addled son to that very fate.
My theory, such as it is? Faraday’s Jughead plan was doomed to failure, and will ultimately not change anything. But his death, his mother’s sacrifice, will instead be the key, the real “incident” that sets everything else in motion.
Why is Faraday wrong? Because he ended up telling Charlotte to leave the island, even though he didn’t want to, thereby closing the loop on one of his own “whatever happened, happened” moments. Because his supposedly radical conclusion — that people, and free will, are the key variables — is undercut by the fact that we’ve been shown that the meddling of our Losties in 1957 and 1977 were always part of the island’s history. And because, I think, we see him realize, with his last breath, what his mother was up to. He was never meant to go to the island to be healed or to save anyone. He simply had to die.
He simply had to die… for the first time. I’m struck by Eloise Hawking’s conversation with Penny, where she says with an obvious sense of wonder, “For the first time in a long time, I don’t know what’s going to happen next.” And she later tells Charles Widmore about sacrifice, about how she sent her son to the island knowing full well he would be killed (by her). Sacrificing her son, it seems, was something she only just barely found the strength to do. Something she’d never done before, which somehow allowed her to always know the future.
Yes, it’s still an attempt to change history, or change destiny, and I’m still not convinced it can be done. But if I ever suspected that Widmore and Hawking were playing at a wholly different level than any of the other characters, I’m convinced of it now. I only hope that whatever Hawking wants to change, it’s not erasing everything we’ve spent the last five years dissecting. That might be a bold move for the end of Season 5, but one that would ultimately be disheartening.
No question, the big questions raised in “The Variable” are worthy of a long conversation. But character wise, story wise, plot wise, it was… merely a good episode. One of those “set up” or “bridge” episodes, if you’ll pardon the expression. It brought a mix of reveals and confirmations, as we suspected Widmore might be Faraday’s father, and that Widmore planted the fake wreckage (meaning Miles’ chat with the dead guy in “Some Like It Hoth” was a fake out). The dramatic stakes were raised, once again via the separation of our Losties into two groups. We see things spiraling out of control, Faraday’s “four hour” countdown conveniently making the rest of the season a near real-time experience.
I was mostly disappointed in Faraday’s story. It simply felt rushed. We flew through his life, from his youth (torn away from the piano) to his graduation, through his experiments and expulsion from Oxford, to deciding to getting on the freighter. Theresa was but a mere blip, and the whole “Memento”-esque memory condition seemed awkwardly shoehorned in. (We did get our hint last season, though, via his memory test with Charlotte.) I mean, this is not the first time we’ve had an intriguing character with some key knowledge and connections… who ends up dying just when their significance begins to emerge (and at the end of a paint-by-numbers flashback episode).
Jen doesn’t want Faraday to be dead, but frankly, he better be. Another Ben-like resurrection at this point would be downright comical. I’d like to think we’ll still learn more about Faraday and his experiments (perhaps in flashbacks for Hawking or Widmore). His still unexplained tears at the sight of the fake wreckage suggests to me that, in true “Constant” fashion, a part of Miles’ scrambled brain was already in touch with his future self.
Notes and Notions:
- Jaters rejoice? Sawyer asks “Freckles” to come with him to the beach to start over, and Juliet immediately gives up the code to the sonic fence. Sawyer asks if Juliet still has his back, and her response is only to ask if he’s got her back. If they’re going to go back down that path, I only hope they save it for Season 6.
- I liked how young piano-playing Faraday told his mother that he could “make time.” Or how he, back on the island, knew when Dr. Chang would arrive at The Orchid, “right on time.”
- We still haven’t seen Jack’s “moment,” but it was amusing how he noted that it was lucky he was a janitor when they suddenly needed the keys to the gun safe. As one of our listeners noted weeks ago, maybe that was always Sawyer’s plan.
- Speaking of moments, Jack’s little speech to Kate about hers was pretty anvilicious. We know the both of them have yet to fulfill some grand plan, but to have that spelled out so melodramatically was jarring.
- Tonight brought a great reminder that some of our Losties spent some time in the 1950s, with Hurley’s line, “Like, Fonzie time?”
- Sawyer’s still got it in the nickname department. “Twitchy” suits frantic Faraday just fine. Bonus points for the straight-faced delivery of the line, “Your mother is an Other?”
- Not to be outdone, Miles tells Faraday, “I thought you’d gotten rich inventing the DVD or something.”
- Any numerologists want to sort out the significance of 141717?
- Locations: Oxford was, again, St. Andrew’s in downtown Honolulu. The Indian restaurant where Daniel got his notebook was Grand Cafe on Pauahi St. Can’t place the “Marina Medical Center.”
We definitely need help untangling this 100th episode of “LOST.” Please comment below, e-mail lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LostLine at (808) 356-0127.
April 24th, 2009 at 10:13 am
I cannot wait!!
April 24th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I know it was just a clips show.. but any thoughts about the last episode?
April 24th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
So…who is the “Constant” and who is the “Variable”? In the pairing of Desmond and Daniel, is Desmond the “Constant” and Daniel the “Variable” or vice-versa? We already know that Daniel considers Desmond his Constant, but he also told Des that the rules do not apply to him…he is a variable free agent in time. Hmmm…..looking forward to this episode to find out!
April 24th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
love the mathematicalness of it all – makes sense that Daniel is the variable (free agent) as pointed out by Connie — which i suppose would mean that he (alone?) can can create alternate equations (realities), such as perhaps rejoining Jin and Sun — I’m sure this will occur before season’s end — Locke brings in a spiritual element connecting everyone to the island’s “destiny” and even Jack is on board and patiently awaiting his “role” of what the island demands
April 24th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Daniel, of anyone, does seem to be attempting to take things into his own hands, but my guess is that one of the ways he is doing this is to use the only variable, which is Desmond. So Desmond would be both Constant and Variable.
Different people have different Constants, but there is only one Variable (much as he doesn’t want to get involved).
BTW, I LOVE that D&C said in a recent podcast that the time travel paradigm they are using is like Twelve Monkeys. That’s what I’ve been saying! Woohoo!
April 24th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
A comment (except the “what the hell”, they give answer to the fake plane in a recap episode???).
Juliet said that Desmon REALLY was saving the world every 108minutes… So the Island if destroyed would mean the end of the world?
We know that there is a wall in the Swan that is like “Tchernobyl”, so the atomic bomb might be in interaction with the energy in the Island and the Wheel… The energy discharge if not done could explode and destroy: what? the world? or just the Island and if the Island exploded it would be really really bad for the whole world?
April 25th, 2009 at 12:06 am
Hi Everyone…
Bummer about the week off, even though the clip show was something to pass the time. Ill say it stinks that we have to wait for “The Variable”, but at least the clip show wasnt narrated by Kris White from the Official Lost Podcast. Seriously.
Connie in Alaska…I think that Daniel is “The Variable” in all of this, and that Desmond is his constant. Remember thats what we saw in his mad scribblings when he was flipping through his notebook on the beach at the end of “The Constant”. Its going to be a great episode…I really like the idea that Daniel is just skipping through time and implanting memories, building Dharma stations and putting pieces together so that everything will fall into place as it should. My question is…was Daniel the “clever fellow” that built the Lamppost station where his mother uses the pendulum to locate the Island? Seems likely to me…
Cant wait for the episode!
April 25th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
If Daniel is coming back with the Dharma folk from Ann Arbor – will we find out how his mom is tied into all of this?
And – if so, is he the same guy who had funding from Charles Whitmore after Oxford… or is this Daniel going to pose as someone else (ALA LaFleur) and is a separate entity from Whitmore. In other words, will Daniel have, now, two separate identities… or will he be able to be himself in both times?
April 25th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Ben Linus may be an evil genius .
April 26th, 2009 at 6:47 am
The clip show said who was responsible for the staged plane crash? Well who was it after all O_o ?
April 26th, 2009 at 7:38 am
The clip show said Widmore was responsible for the staged crash. Is it canon? That’s the question.
April 26th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
I thought it was very interesting tht the clip show said that Widmore was responsible for the crash as it didn’t seem to align with the previous week’s show. Darleton as said before that they don’t generally see or participate in the clip shows so either it is a big reveal or a big “whoops”!
April 26th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Cat,
I agree, Darlton also say the statements at the bottom of the “enhanced” episodes are not cannon, so I also think the clip shows are not necessarily cannon.
Since the episode description is still not describing who is centric to the episode, I am going to play devil’s advocate and throw a crackpot theory out there for fun. Either Sun or Lapidus are the variable.
Sun, because she was not originally destined to be on flight 815, or
Lapidus, because he WAS originally destined to be on flight 815.
We have yet to see how either of them have arrived on 316, meaning the 24 hours leading up to it.
It seems like it would be a given that Faraday would be the centric character, but since it’s not yet officially announced, I have to throw out some other ideas.
Don’t get me wrong, I am jonesing for a Faraday-centric story, but really, this is deep into the season to not even know the exact events that made led to 3 people getting on 316: Lapidus, Sun, and Hurley. But, since Hurley made is to 1977, I am speculating that it is either Sun or Lapidus that are the variable and that the events leading them to 316 and consequently NOT 1977 island-time, I am leaning toward one of them being the variable.
Stefani, excellent point about which Faraday was being funded by Widmore, almost makes a loop when you think about it. If it is the Faraday with Dharma experience, he would be at least 50 in 1998 when Des goes to see him, though. But, still, you got me thinking on that one, maybe there is more there than meets the eye…
Connie, I thought the “rules” did not apply to Des because he was able to later find his constant, allowing him to be “unstuck” in time? For some reason I thought that was why he was the constant, which would mean that Faraday, too, was unstuck in time?!?! Nose bleed, gotta go…
April 27th, 2009 at 6:58 am
Well I don’t think that ‘anyone’ in particular is ‘the variable’. I think it has more to do with a equation or an actual quantum mechanic of some sort, even to the degree of what a ‘constant’ was.
April 27th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Christy,
Interesting ideas about Sun or Lapidus being the variable. We do know, however, how Lapidus got on 316. He told Jack in “316″ that he’d been flying those routes lately. Of course we know he’s supposed to be there. Just seemed fairly routine how he got there. Loved his face when he peered into the cabin behind Jack and saw Sayid, Sun, Hurley, Kate and said, “we’re not going to Guam, are we?”
April 27th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Lucia and Knives,
Good points. Now that I think back to The Constant, when Desmaon asks Faraday in Oxford if his Constant can be a person, he responds that as long as he makes contact with person in both times, it can be, so I guess actual people being part of the equation is not a given.
OK, I guess I should stop commenting before the episode airs, it will be that many more comments to scroll past to get to the more recent posts as they are submitted after the episode. Good day!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Regardless I haven’t seen any sneek peaks, so everything is going to be solid gold for me. This episode is going to spectacular.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
As an Algebra Teacher, the Constant vs. Variable has definately got me thinking. I just don’t know which is which. Is Des = Constant and Daniel = Variable or visa versa? Interesting!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
The episode is off to a banging start! So much info so quickly!
April 29th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Best line 40 minutes in…
Hurley to Sawyer, “You guys were here in 1954? Like, uhhh….Fonzie times?”
April 29th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Damn, what an episode.. I will have to re-watch at least twice. What an ending!! way cool, and somewhat foreshadowed in Eloise’s behavior to Dan prior to his getting on the freighter… excellent episode in a season that has had its fair share or excellent episodes..
April 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
O…M…G!!!!!!
Can’t wait to read everyone’s reaction to this episode!
April 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
I have to be first…HOLY FREAKIN’ CRAP! It ain’t original, but hey, it’s the only way to describe tonight’s episode!!
April 29th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
The question is who is Penny’s mom. Also can Richard die? Ellie thinks he can.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Dude That was awesome
But we saw a lot of this coming.
Miles’ dad is Change
Daniels parents is Eloise and Widmore
April 29th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
I knew that faraday was gonna die because i read a spolier, but i think he was such a good character and they shouldnt have done it so quickly. i recon his story line could have gone on for longer seeing as hes widmores and elouis’s son. im interested to see how they get back to the present though :]
April 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I thought it wasn’t a great episode, but it was pretty good.
I love Sawyer’s nickname for Faraday: Twitchy
Eloise Hawking wins the Mommy Dearest Award for being the worst mother ever! Even though she knew that she shot him in the past, she could have shown him a little bit of love over the years. She seemed very cold and detached from Daniel.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Why!!!?!?!?
I’m done man, I’m done!
April 29th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Man, I would hate to have Eloise for a mother, or mother in law. She seems so cold. I’m so happy that Desmond and Penny are still both alive *sniff sniff*
April 29th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
NOOO! FARADAY!!! *cries*
I thought this episode was excellent- so much set in motion, so much answered… Now we know who that other major death this season would be! Why can’t everything be wonderful? Why can’t they all have fun at the beach camp and frolic in the jungle of mystery and kill Ben and keep Smokey as a pet? Now we’re undoing the very fabric of time! FARAAADDAAYYY!
April 29th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Lot’s of questions answered, kinda and some inconsistencies. The main inconsistency is the Dharma video shown last summer where Daniel was clearly the man in the background while Dr. Chang was talking about the imminent disaster where they would all die. Clearly Daniel was not there to make that video.
So Eloise sends Daniel back to the island knowing that he would go back to the past and that she would eventually kill him. Why? Wouldn’t a mother’s love do anything to keep her son safe?
Widmore is Daniel’s father and Hawking is the mother. So I guess we can assume that Penny is the child he had with an off-islander.
How did Hawking know that Desmond was at the hospital?
Widmore definitely planted the fake plane.
Why was Daniel so insane prior to going on the freighter. Was it caused by the experiments he did on himself?
Looks like Sawyer, Juliet, Hurley, Miles and Jin have some ’splaining to do to the very angry Dharma folks. It’s hard to imagine how they’ll escape this mess.
I can’t believe that they’ll go through with Daniel’s plan to explode Jughead. That would negate 5 seasons of the show which would be so stupid.
4 hours until the Incident – I suspect that next week will mostly focus on the 2007 Ajira 316 folks and Locke, Sun etc. and that we won’t see much more of the 1977 folks until the season finale.
I guess all of us that thought that Jughead was buried in the big cement block in the Swan were wrong. That’s a source of great energy that Daniel wanted to destroy by exploding Jughead – wherever the Others put it.
All in all a good episode. Not as good as the Constant, but any episode that shows some love between Desmond and Penny is OK by me.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Yeah, wow. This episode played like an epic film as much as it did a episode in a serial. Faraday died, sucks, but adds a bit element to things. I felt a little short change from the episode’s description. It acted as though Daniel would share everything he knew about the Island, he, in fact, didn’t share anything about the island, just basically how to stop 815. Which by the way 0% chance they succeed at destroying the Swan, guarantee it.
So many ways this show could go from here, with what will happen to Hurley, Miles, Juliet and Sawyer.
Also, the Comic Con video with Faraday and Chang, apparently never happens, unless Daniel lives, and I don’t think he does.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
I think when she was telling dan that he needs to go on the freighter, she was a bit sad about it… I thought she got more tender towards him then, knowing she was sending him off to be killed… by her own hand, no less..
April 29th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Poor Daniel, just like a Greek tragedy.
Maybe Richard will take him to the temple and he’ll be ok??
April 29th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Another great episode, but in a show that pays so much attention to detail, I was surprised they didn’t do a better job at continuity. Anyone else notice the difference in Daniel’s hair when they were showing him watching the fake plane crash and when he stood up to greet Widmore? The Lost Hair and Makeup department must have been on break for this scene.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
The end of this episode reminded me how awesome my Mom is. In fact, I need to call her and tell her as such. But really … most folks on Lost have Daddy issues, figures Dan would have Mommy issues, and no wonder, she was setting him up so she could shoot him for a LOONG time! “No Daniel, you cannot play the piano, you have to become a math wiz, let Jen fall desperately in love with your character, then I can shoot you and break her heart” Okay, maybe that’s not EXACTLY what happened.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
I believe that Jack and Kate will go through with Daniel’s plan, because they always went through with Daniel’s plan. Obviously Daniel going to see Eloise and consequently getting shot by her always happened. You could tell by her acting throughout the episode. Whatever happened happened is still the truth. Perhaps this nuclear detonation is the incident.
I’m not sure a mother’s love could outweigh the idea that not keeping Daniel on course for his destiny could be the end of… well… everything. Who knows what a rip in the space/time continuum would cause. (Did that sound as cliche as it sounds in my head?)
April 29th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
ha, of course they don’t destroy the Swan, then there’d be no Season 6.
Meanwhile, I get the feeling that Daniel will live, somehow, for some reason.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Y’know what’s sad? If they go through with Dan’s plan, they’ll never know each other. Makes me sad.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
I just finished watching tonight’s episode. During the episode they paused on an issue of Wired magazine. The issue was from August 2003. In magazine is a featured article “a user’s guide to time travel.” The article is worth a read and gives some theories on time travel and parallel universes.http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.08/pwr_timetravel.html
April 29th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
“Who knows what a rip in the space/time continuum would cause. (Did that sound as cliche as it sounds in my head?)”
in the context of Lost, no.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Holli In Jax: That’s an excellent idea. Get on that, Richard!!
April 29th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
@Knives – If you are done, as you say, your theories will be a missed voice on the blog.
Could Daniel be taken into the temple, like Ben, and turned into the Bizzaro Daniel?
I look forward to everyone’s insights and let the debate begin!!
April 29th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Daniel has to, or else the Comic Con video is pointless. But if not, I don’t no.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
@paintergirl1 – If “whatever happened, happened” really is still true, then Daniel must be okay because he’s still got that video to make with Chang. And yes, I’m convinced that it was his voice behind the camera.
Granted, there *were* a lot of clues foreshadowing his death near the end of the episode there; from Daniel himself saying “any one of us could die”, to Eloise telling Charles that she sent him back knowing full well what would happen. Yet, I still believe he’ll make it. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
I really think Faraday is dead. At the very end before they push in on Eloise’s face, he does the whole “eyes unfocus and head tilt” thing. The man was shot in the chest! I hope he’s not dead, but I really don’t think they can pull that one again like they tried with Ben. Seriously though, gunned down by his own mother? Wow. This show has mommy issues, too!
My mom has thought for a long time that the series will end with them all on the plane to LA and no crash, but I dismissed it as a stupid, cop-out way to end it all. Unfortunately, now that seems to be a reality… Though we still have one season left.
Also, yay for Desmond being okay.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Hey Ryan and Jen,
Love the podcast. Thank you for continuing with your great insight every week. I usually just watch the debate from the sideline, but this week I had to chime in. This was a top 3 favorite episode for me. I love Dan’s character so much. For a guy with so many complex thoughts running through his head like a mouse in a maze, his motivations seem simple. Make his mother proud, protect his friends, try to change the future.
The start of this episode made me worry that maybe the past can be changed, but it looks like the more our Losties try to change the future, the more they ensure that things go exactly according to plan. I hope Daniel isn’t dead (or at least, isn’t “gone”). While the Dharma video from this summer gives me some hope, I won’t count on it.
Keep up the great work, guys.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Also, I think at this point the Comic-Con video is completely non-canon. He is talking to what seems to be Faraday and a man he calls “LaFleur”- but at this point one is dead and the other in serious trouble. I don’t think Chang would have them film a video of him in his house. I think the CC video was more of a promo than a preview.
And well, well, well, Widmore… Another man with two families? Jeez, who’s loyal to their marriage on this show???
April 29th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Why does Radiznsky run around Dharmaville unchecked? I know that he is a little paraniod, but who died and made him boss?
Where was Goodspeed when the ’showdown’ was going on?
I completely agree with mike from maine about the hair/makeup team. They must have spent all of the show’s budget money on props and skimped on the hair and makeup budget!!
April 29th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
he is dead.
but i think we’re due for the return of Thomas!
from Science to Art!
April 29th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Yea, I definitely agree that the Comic Con video will be a huge topic of discussion coming out of this episode. Clearly at the time that he was shot by Eloise he hadn’t been there with Chang to film the video. Chang didn’t believe him. So either he lives or the Comic Con video is inaccurate which has never happened before. Maybe the island brings him back to life just like so many others, but I somehow doubt it. I’ll look forward to Ryan and Jen’s thoughts on this.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
also, with the Richard can die point. Think about this too, in “The Man Behind The Curtain”, when the Purge occurs, Richard wears a gas mask too, so he either can die or wants others to think he can, same with Elle saving him tonight.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
@ John Fischer – Daniel is crazy before the freighter because of what his experiments did to Theresa?
April 29th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Another question, just how did Daniel know that in XX hours the Dharma folks would unleash this energy? If he is dead before than happens, how can he know? Clearly his mother never told him about her island life?
April 29th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
As many times as I’ve gone back to watch earlier episodes in earliers seasons of this show, never have I wanted to do that more than I do right now…There were a lot of things from a lot of prior episodes that told tonight’s story. It just sucks that I have to get up in the morning and go to work, so I can’t do that!!!!
For a show that has so many daddy issues, this has got to be the mother of all mommy issues.
And while I know the question has been asked before, now I’m really curious to know about when young Charles and young Ellie parted ways – could it be because he was cheating on her with Penny’s mom, whoever that is?
As for the theory side of the story, I’m wondering if Daniel’s death means that all “variables” will unwittingly be constants? From where I’m standing, I don’t see where they’ve actually changed any of the past – it just seems to me that even when he was acting as a variable, Daniel still became a constant in the equation of the island’s history, ensuring that what happened, happened. He still spoke to young Charlotte, coming off as a crazy man, he still got shot by his mom. The thought that even in their grandest efforts to change the future by changing the past, the events of the past will still happen, it’s almost depressing – it means that our Losties will be stuck in this time loop forever, always trying to change the future, and always failing.
Right now, though, it does look to me like Dr. Chang may actually have ordered an evacuation of some kind, though – Charlotte, Miles, their mothers, Daniel and Ellie did leave the island at some point, and I’m wondering if this was the reason why.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Widmore told Faraday that the island would cure him, for what’s that worth.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Anyone else notice that when Daniel talked to little Charlotte he caught her eating chocolate – and she was taken aback, saying she wasn’t supposed to eat chocolate before dinner? That was one of the things adult Charlotte said right before she died. It seemed like delusional babbling of a dying woman at the time, but now we know she was remembering meeting Daniel the first time. Pretty cool.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
So much for my idea that the shadow people were behind the faked crash!
April 29th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Poor Daniel, and I thought Ben’s dad was cruel.
Why did Eloise suddenly decide that Daniel had to devote himself exclusively to science? Did future Daniel visit her at that time?
The tragic nature of his death reminded me of Charlie, and again it was all for nothing. What purpose did their deaths have?
Who didn’t tear up when Daniel asked his mom if he would finally be proud of him? What a heartbreaking scene.
We now know that this means they always were back in 1977, so does that mean Ben remembers them?
April 29th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
About Hawking’s coldness : Ummm…. you know you’re going to kill your son one day. And that you’ll be doing a lot of manipulating to make sure it happens. I think it makes a lot of sense to try to remain as cold and distant as you can so that you can actually go through with it all.
About the Comic Con video : Faraday understands time travel. What if he went off to Ann Arbor and actually returned in time when the video will be made? He does all he needs to do, like make a video, and then returns to the 70’s. He takes the sub to the island and gets shot by mom. No problem. I really don’t think they’ll use the Temple. That’d seem a bit lame after seeing the same trick just being done for Ben. Maybe the Temple process takes a bit of time and Ben is undergoing the ordeal right now… so it’s unavailable to Faraday anyway.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
great episode. It’s clear that when Desmond turned the key to explode the hatch he set off Juggead, this completing Dan’s plan. But there has to be a bigger picture. We need to get out of that 70’s show and get to Lock and Sun to find it out. And that will happen in the season finale right before the final thud.
April 29th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Carol, I think Ben remembering them would depend on whether they left that time b4 the incident and how much of his past b4 he got shot he will remember. It seems they will be gone within the next 4 hours and Ben as of this moment is still with the Hostiles. Anyway, another gr8 episode of Lost and wherever it goes from here, I am along for the ride.
April 29th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Ben remembers his dad, and I think he’ll forget getting shot, but I think he remembers Julliet, and he knew everything about Sawyer when he met him.
There were a lot of great reveals in this episode. Though I still find Daniel very frustrating for never giving out enough information. Hopefully his notebook will help everyone left behind.
The real question now is if there are really “variables”, or if what happens, happens.
I look forward to reading the blog tomorrow and seeing what you all have to say.
Knives – Don’t give up now, you are so close to the end. Plus in the preview we see that Sayid is coming back!
April 29th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Michael281 nailed it.
I’m not done.
I’m just crushed.
I can’t even type man, its like. Damn…
April 29th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
PS
I totally hyperventilated when I saw Sayid in the preview… Oh man, where has he been, where is he going… and oh shoot! I love LOST.
April 29th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
I dont think Dan is dead because of the comic-con video, and when Sayid shot Ben at the end of He’s Our You everyone thought he was dead too so there precedence.
April 29th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
After view the Comic Con video again, if Daniel had gone to Dr. Chang before visiting the meeting at Sawyer’s, how could he have convinced Chang of the crazy ideas of the Internet, GW Bush is president, and the most shocking thing…that he is going to die in only a few hours?? In the episode tonight, when Chang asks Miles if it is true that he is his son, and MIles refuses the claim, Chang things Daniel is nuts…how could this change so quickly? As for the voice in the video, it is Daniel…it just doesn’t seem plausible.
April 29th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
My exact words were “Eff you writers!”
I guess that means I’m pretty convinced that he’s dead.
The writers were a little…squirrly about the comic-con video actually being cannon in the interview that was just posted on lostpedia.com. It didn’t sound to me like it was cannon. They danced around words like “promotional material”.
April 29th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Another great episode!
The two weeks was rough!
I am loving getting more and more pieces to this puzzle!
I think that with Widmore, Eloise, Ben fighting..
Jacob is going to put his foot down!
He has let people time and time again mess up the island..and I think he is going to fix it once and for all!
Team Jacob:
Christian
Locke
Richard
Its really hard to place people on teams..but we will see after next weeks episode who stands where.
If Jack ever wanted to know what his destiny was..now is the time..
Now that Jack has no “Locke” or no “Faraday” only his journal, I am hoping the island has given him the tools to do what he needs to do. His fellow 815ers is all he has..they need to come together and do the “right” thing!
Will he find his purpose..and NOT destroy the hatch..
or
Will he want to land safely in L.A..
Once again faced with the decision to leave the Island…I hope Jack doesn’t make the same mistake twice!
April 29th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
P.S
I am reminded of the great quote from Spider Man:
“With great power, comes great responsibility”
-Uncle Ben
The island is very special..is there anyone responsible enough to harness and understand the power of the island?
April 29th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Didn’t expect that ending. But certainly the Comic Con video will be topic of conversation. But what if Dan has traveled back into time multiple times and perhaps this is his last trek back? He says that this is their present and that he (and the otehrs that went back in time) can die in that present. So, what if the video shown at Comic Con was indeed Dan (have they ever confirmed that it was actually him?) making that video as a backup plan in case he failed further in the past to stop “the incident?” And if that is the case, then what if the 2007 people, in particular Bram and Illana, etc. actually have the machine created by Dan to get them (Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet, Hurley, and maybe Miles – though I don’t think he’ll go back) to the future? Food for thought, at least.
Jack, now thinking that destiny may not be destiny may now be shaken out of his funk and do something rather than let things happen as he watches it happen.
2007 seems to be where the known future ends, as Eloise admits that for the first time she doesn’t know what will happen. It would appear that sets up the end of the time loop and is the place where perhaps the record starts playing the remainder of the song, so to speak.
Will have to watch the episode again to really get all of the nuances though. I did find it odd how Eloise reacted when she told Dan he had to go back to the island to get “better.” Guess that reaction makes sense knowing that her younger self will shoot her son.
April 29th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
The way this episode ended really bothered me.
Why did they feel a need to arm themselves to go talk to the Hostiles? Saywer and Kate didn’t need guns when they took little Ben to the Hostiles a few episodes ago. And Richard has always been pretty reasonable to deal with so why hold a gun to the guy’s head in front of all his people? He’s not like dealing with Ben and you’re just asking to get shot by doing that. It seemed really out of character for Dan to walk up into that camp all commando style especially since both Richard and Eloise would probably remember him if he just walked up unarmed and said, “Hey, I’m the guy who helped you with the H-bomb 20-something years ago and we need to talk about something important.” That would be more logical and it would fit with Dan’s academic (non-violent) personality.
I guess they needed to provide some reason for Eloise to shoot Dan, but the way it played out really seemed to be forced and uncharacteristic for Dan. Sloppy, lazy writing IMHO. Maybe I’m just being petty, but it really ruined the episode for me.
April 29th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Oh, Daniel, we hardly knew ye! I think this Daniel is dead, but there is a little boy Daniel running around somewhere else in 1977.
I never liked plot resolutions that make previous seasons mean absolutely nothing…we all remember the infamous “the whole series of Dallas was nothing more than Bobby Ewing’s dream” cheat. If they succeed in blowing up Jughead and keeping the Swan Hatch from ever being built, thus preventing 815 from crashing, I will be very disappointed. If this is what the Universe has to do to “course correct” itself, then what has been the point?
If 815 lands in LA at the end of Season 6, then Locke will still be in a wheelchair, Shannon and Boone will still be bickering, Rose will still have cancer, Kate will go to jail, Charlie will still be a drug addict (but a LIVE drug addict), Sawyer will still be a conman, Hurley will still be crazy over the numbers, Claire will give Aaron up for adoption, and on and on.
Of course other things would not have happened either: would Desmond be on the Island? Would Juliet be on the Island? Would the purge have happened? Daniel’s new theory opens up a lot more possiblities, but I hope the writers don’t throw us all over a cliff with a lame one.
April 29th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Oh…I LOVE Farady….even if he was a little extra “twitchy” this episode….and now he is gone…I loved seeing him go up to baby Charlotte who is not supposed to have Chocolate before dinner, I loved watching him tell Chang that Miles was his son, I loved watching him in his final moments piece together that his dear mom knows she will kill him by sending him back….
When he said, “Someone could die” I was really hoping they were gonna “off” Kate. I have been watching a lot of old episodes during this two week hiatus and she annoys me more the second time around. I am so glad we have Juliette to represent and intelligent, strong female on the show. Kate won’t want to not have 815 crash because she has a sweet life now – when she should be in prison for killing like a million people including her dear old step dad. This will surely cause conflict in the next few episodes.
Great show- we got to see some Penny/Desmond love action and some back story on Faraday…and little kid Charlotte and little kid Daniel…
I kept waiting for the “I am the father” reveal from Chuckie…they really drew that one out.
Thanks for the podcast…always a pleasure!
Knives..hang in there…at least you don’t have a mother who sends you back in time to meet your own death…caused by her own hands…
April 29th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Something is bothering me about Daniel’s journal. I get that Jack or the others may have it after Daniel’s death… but how did a photocopy of it wind up in Ben’s old office at the Hydra station in 2007 for Cesar to find.
April 29th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
@msredhd: Well 2007 is 30 years in the future…so the journal could end up there any number of ways.
April 29th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
I loved this episode, but I’m afraid my brain is fried.
April 29th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
“The Variable” was a mixed bag for me. I loved the fact that they gave us some clarity about how the all the time-travel stuff works (or at least, they tried to). But I kept expecting bigger twists than they gave us. The music and editing kept acting as if the characters were saying shocking things. So Widmore faked the crash–evidence pointed pretty clearly to that, though I still had doubts. But we knew Eloise was Dan’s mother, and had guessed Widmore was his father. I felt like Eloise’s killing her son was forecast a bit, once Dan started waving a gun around. But then, at the very end, Daniel says “I’m your son”…and THUD??? Maybe Eloise was shocked to hear it, but were we? Shocked Daniel was dead, sure, but that’s not the same thing.
Sigh.
I do appreciate that now we see some of where things are heading. Jack’s group is going to be trying to bring about Daniel’s plans, so as to affect a kind of Back to the Future thing, where all the ‘77ers just kind of fade away because they were never there. All is back to the way it should have been. But I agree with the comments above which point out that things weren’t that great for them before the crash; would going back be such a good thing? Granted, they’re pretty much all killers now, to one degree or another. That would be nice to have off your conscience. But I’m interested to see who pushes back against the attempt to enact Daniel’s plans. The New Others, maybe.
April 29th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Mikey-Maybe Daniel WAS asking to be shot.
April 29th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Faraday’s dead, but he’s not gone. For the first time, a character has explicitly stated that the entire history of Lost can be undone. No incident, no crash of 815, no endless cycle of suffering. It all comes down to the possibility of change vs predetermined fate. And now it seems sleeping Jack is finally going to wake up and try to act upon Daniel’s recorded knowledge that would be “hard to explain to a physicist” in the hope of setting everything straight again. In my opinion. Jack may succeed in getting his people back to their proper time frame, but only by sacrificing himself and becoming Jacob while at the same time setting a doomsday clock in motion that can only be stopped by changing the past.
@Briand
Yes. We’ve entertained other possibilities, but the way you put it, it does seem clear that Desmond’s turning of the failsafe key might very well have detonated Jughead thus fulfilling Daniels’s plan to annihilate the exotic energy source. What does it mean that the island persists after this event or Kelvin’s comment that turning the key would make “it all go away?”
Finally, I have to throw in a few sour words about the Comic Con video. Unless parts of the master plan will open our eyes in time, this seems like another breakdown. Spend the extra time to properly integrate these supplementals into the story or don’t do them at all.
Your mother’s an other!
April 29th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
So Daniel got shot, is he dead? I have no idea but then again a few weeks ago Ben was shot by Sayid. Did Ben die, no. I guess we wait until next week for what’s next.
I don’t understand why exploding the H-bomb over the Swan station is going to fix things as opposed to not drilling at all in the spot.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:31 am
@helen …. i think he is dead, he looked dead… and that could be why Eloise was upset and started to say to charles that she sent him back knowing full well…. but it is lost so anything is possible… he did say any of us can die 2 mins before he got shot but maybe he was even supposed to get shot….
i am not a huge dan fan… im not a dan hater either but this episode was def worthy of the 100 ep. marker… it was EPIC… so many reveals that we had been waiting for… jack has started to become more like the old jack we kinda maybe loved and def liked…
April 30th, 2009 at 12:42 am
Wow. I thought I’d come on here and read a lot of negative reviews….
Unfortunately, for me, this was the worst episode of the season and in my bottom 10 of all time. Bad acting and poor scenes sunk it for me.
While I like the actor who plays (played?) Daniel, I REALLY thought the crying, sniffling, sad act was horrendous. It reminded me of the scene a few episodes back, where Daniel was whimpering over the vanished Charlotte and muttering, “I can’t…I won’t…I can’t.” At the time I thought that it was a real low point for acting on the show, and lo and behold, this week we got a full episode of it. It seriously grated on my nerves, even more so than “WALT!”
Other bits…
The flashbacks on Daniel’s life seemed disjointed and unconvincing, particularly his relationship with his mother which lacked any chemistry or familial bond.
Jack’s conversation with Kate, about her purpose on the island, was entirely weird and out of place.
Why would whimpy Daniel traipse into the Others’ camp with a gun and demand to see his mother? Completely unbelievable and out of character. Daniel met Richard 20 years earlier…why didn’t he think to work THAT angle?
The shootout with Radzinski and his men was awful, and by “awful”, I mean standard TV show fare, which bothers me because I’m so used to LOST being anything but standard TV fare. This scene reminded me of something like the A Team or Dukes of Hazzard. Hmm, let’s see…everyone take aim 15-20 feet away from one another and shoot lots of bullets without anyone dying. Oh, and then let’s resort to the cliche “shoot-the-barrel” trick, which won’t hurt anyone but will explode and provide 10 seconds of cover to hop in an UNPROTECTED jeep that provides a quick getaway. (Seriously, LOST has all these writers, and THIS is the best they can come up with?)
Jack patches up Daniel by the sonic fence with medical gauze. Maybe I missed something, but where did he get that? I know he’s a doctor and all, so maybe he’d been storing it in his shoe this whole time.
Oh, and Radzinski and his “posse” barge into Sawyer’s house. I can’t see that ever happening to the “head of security,” at least not by a pencil-neck like Radzinski (albeit a hothead pencil-neck). This is the same doofus that Jin shoved up against a wall when looking for the plane, and here he goes all Rambo on us??
This episode wasn’t all bad, though. Daniel died, so we won’t have to hear any more of that horrible cry/whimper from him in the future (or the past).
(My apologies to Jeremy Davies…good actor, but not his best work.)
April 30th, 2009 at 12:49 am
I liked that Daniel told Chang that Miles was his grown son. And Daniel telling Miles that he hoped that Chang would do what he was supposed to do…..I now believe that Chang had his young family sent away to make certain that they were safe.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:15 am
John Fisher, maybe the reason Widmore had to make the off island trips was because Ellie was banished for killing Daniel. That could explain how she is off the island.
I was very happy to see Des ok but there is just something too un-nerving about the “Penny, I’ll never leave you” speech coming here. I am worried about him. He clearly has a major role to play and I fear that we might have another “Charlie” death.
Really liked the episode but hated this particular death.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:25 am
Did anyone notice when Kate deactivated the sonic barrier that she hesitated before she went through it. She allowed Dan to go first, as If she didn’t trust Juliet with the deactivation code. HMMM Just an observation.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:58 am
I thought this season started like a great roller coaster. But currently I feel there’s too many characters and the stories are too spread out and complicated. It’s like the movie, “Back to the Future II”. Hopefully the writers know where this is going.
And in typical LOST style, Chang tells the maintenance workers the Orchid holds the power for “time travel”. And when Daniel tells him he’s from the future, Chang cops an attitude like, “you’re full of sh-t.” Give me a break.
Why (in two instances) was Daniel branishing a pistol like a gunslinger? He caused all the gunplay and his own death. Give me a break.
There was some good information presented, but was for me, was the worst episode of the season.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:17 am
cat:
“I was very happy to see Des ok but there is just something too un-nerving about the “Penny, I’ll never leave you” speech coming here. I am worried about him. He clearly has a major role to play and I fear that we might have another “Charlie” death.”
That whole scene bothered me also. Desmond keeps promising Penny that he’ll never leave her, yet he has been told that the island isn’t done with him. I’m just as much afraid for Penny. What if she leaves him by somehow dying. I’m not sure how that could happen since the guy who wanted her dead is off on the island.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:48 am
Why it doesn’t seem that Daniel can be dead:
In the most recent comic-con video, Pierre Chang is warning the viewers about the impeding disaster and Daniel is heard operating the camera. Last night, Chang did not believe Daniel yet about what was going to happen. So doesn’t Daniel still have to be alive to be operating the camera in that clip?
April 30th, 2009 at 2:51 am
If Daniel is dead why did we see “If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY constant” in The Constant?
April 30th, 2009 at 3:04 am
I think the possibility of an 815 reboot is intriguing. It will ultimately divide the survivors into two camps. One group that want to set time right and undo all the terrible things that happened on the island. And the other group wants to keep their second chances the Island gave them.
Jack can save Clair, Charlie and EVERYONE that died in the plane crash. Doctor Jack would love that. Hurley too, would be able to find redemption for the people he killed in the balcony collapse by saving the lives of everyone on 815. And certainly, Sayid would be better off if Ben never came into his life
But Kate, Sawyer and Locke wouldn’t want time reset. Ben will be torn, it is his destiny to set time right, but wouldn’t be special after the reset. But perhaps his daughter would live and he could undo that tragedy.
Desmond could save Charlie, but then would he son Charlie ever be born? Are the events on the Island what ultimately brought him and Penny together?
Also, it would be interesting if the reset happened, but wasn’t supposed to. So next season everyone one would get off the plane unharmed, but ultimately would be drawn back to the Island to start the process over again.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:12 am
I’ve been thinking about the Comic Con video. From the time that Daniel first approached Chang till the time he left with Jack and Kate a few hours had passed. Perhaps he convinced him and Sawyer and he filmed the video. Now we see that Sawyer is in deep trouble. Perhaps his way out is to tell Radzinsky to take him to Chang who will explain that he is from the future and that there is a disaster impending. That may be the way that Sawyer, Juliet et al. escape from the clutches of Radzinsky and the gang.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:32 am
meh… the episode itself wasn’t bad. however, i don’t like where the story seems to be going. jack might be used to things being “insane” but i was hoping that they’d tie up the 1977 stuff sooner than later (like last night, maybe).
i have an outside theory that the purpose of Eloise pushing her son so hard was to prepare him to go back in time and PREVENT her from shooting him. the more i think about it, the “sacrifice” theory makes a little more sense, but i can’t see what the purpose of sacrificing faraday is. he didn’t do anything important other than help the freighter people find the correct bearing to the island. if that was his purpose, than Widmore and company are no better people than evil Ben.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:32 am
unless he was meant to stop the “incident”, but just failed.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:35 am
Did you guys notice the weird commercials during the break?? They are commercials similar to the Hanso Project ones. If you do a search on the web for “What did you see?” and Lost. You get the following website:
TheMosaicCollective.com
And this website is owned by ABC.com. It asks you a question about what you saw and your email.
Raul From Wayne,NJ
April 30th, 2009 at 3:37 am
Did anyone else think it was weird how lacksidasical Sawyer & Juliet were in getting ready to leave the island? Why were they taking so much time and getting so much stuff together? Was the motor pool so far away they wouldn’t have heard all the gun fire and the giant explosion?
While I loved learning more about Faraday, it did kind of seem all for nothing and the notion of a well thought out story on the island really took a back seat to the “set up” work of getting the lostees moving again and getting Faraday killed off. I really wanted to love this episode, but perhaps expected too much out of it because, like many have mentioned, it just seemed disjointed and uncharacteristic at times.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:39 am
Everyone,
I think this blog is great because it’s currently showing both ends of the spectrum with regards to how this episode faired. It’s great to see how different people felt about this episode. I’m somewhere in the middle.
As much as i really like hearing all the important things that Daniel had to say, he didn’t really reveal that much and it was a bit disappointing. I’m assuming we’ll get more when they riffle through his journal throughout the rest of this season.
I agree that the Comicon video seems to hold less cannon than it does after this episode. One theory that few on this blog have mentioned is the “time-loop” theory. there is a huge theory about this posted on: http://timelooptheory.com//the_timeline.html
This is a very flawed theory (as you’ll read); however, i am starting to agree with the notion that time is looping for some people (perhaps only Faraday and possibly Alpert) Maybe the answer to the Comicon video is that time is looping from one particular point and the reason why Hawking doesn’t know what’s going to happen post-2007 is because of the time loop. Perhaps the video was just one instance where Faraday was trying to succeed with his plan but failed again? The time loop seems to be the missing piece to the puzzle.
but, as some have mentioned, it will SERIOUSLY disappoint me if Daniel’s plan works…the 815′ers landing safely. that will be the ending i dread the most.
One other thought too…this episode seriously shifted the focus of the story. What about the Egyptian stuff? how does the smoke monster work into the story? According to this “time-Loop” theory the monster is DESTINTY “course-correcting” the fate of the island. That may be true but it’s way too much fiction and too little science, which is what this episode was entirely about. There seems to be too much disconnect now between science and fantasy. Perhaps this is the who point. there have been a lot of references to black/white, science/faith as well as other opposites.
So i guess it’s all in what you believe.
hope you guys can see where i’m going with this.
Great show R/J…love this blog!
April 30th, 2009 at 3:47 am
So who else thinks that Daniel is going to be revived “Ben in the temple style”? He can’t die, because he needs to film the video with Chang.
Also, I loved the bit where Myles denied him being Chang’s son… Very cool, creepy scene.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:54 am
the commercial for “The Mosaic Collective” i believe is a promo for a new show called “Flash Forward” written by David S. Goyer (Batman Begins, Blade) and Brannon Braga (Enterprise, Threshold). Here’s a web entry describing it:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/news/e3i2b46d200e6140dd0b1b9a24746901e29
April 30th, 2009 at 3:59 am
It’s Jennifer (former hater of Season 5). LOST has redeemed itself. I thought this episode was FANTASTIC! It had all the components of the LOST I love: mystery and wonder, questions answered, but mind-tossing, thought-provoking questions left for later analysis, great writing with attention to the characters we have come to know.
I’m left this morning wanting to dissect this episode and its every detail. But what I keep coming back to is:
This episode might have been titled The Variable, but it’s core message is that no matter what the variable, everything remains Constant.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:13 am
So we learned that detonating Jughead can negate the energy under the Swan hatch. Is it safe to assume that after the incident they buried Jughead under the concrete as well? And by Desmond turning the failsafe key way back in season 2 final activated Jughead which neutralized the pocket of energy under the hatch. I know, never assume anything with this show but this sounds right to me.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:23 am
Amazing episode! Sad but also made of pure win.
I do have one lingering question. And I think a few people have commented already. When did Dr. Chang and Faraday record the video we saw at Comic Con? It makes me wonder if this is not the last we’ve seen of Faraday. Dr. Chang did not seem very convinced of what Faraday was saying so it seems unlikely that it was taped during the timeframe covered in the episode or the last 3yrs prior.
I guess if it is not canon it is for sure confusing.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:30 am
Count me in the “mixed feelings” camp.
Lots of great stuff. My current questions:
When exactly was Dan born? He said he tested “it” on himself before Theresa. Could this cover the Comicon question?
I don’t think the 815 Reboot would actually be as horrible as some seem to fear. The Final season could be all about De Ja Vu and our character’s fates be completed ala Final Destination (the movie).
What a wonderful ride this is!
Mahalo, R&J
April 30th, 2009 at 4:33 am
disagree, it’s a cop-out. it become almost synonymous with the Dallas “it was all a dream” theory.
I was also thinking about Theresa. Perhaps they didn’t show it, but it didn’t seem like they addressed her story line. Now they kill off Faraday and we don’t even get a REAL explanation of Theresa’s story? rush rush rush the story along. Why even both with Theresa if you’re not going to get into her story?
April 30th, 2009 at 4:40 am
Boy, that ending blew me away! The whole concept of being able to undo everything that we know happened on the island makes my head hurt, though. Lets say Jack & Kate CAN stop it somehow…then what? How are they even there stopping it? I am imagining Hurley waving his hand in front of his face again to see if he’s disappearing.
The other question I have is how did Eloise know she was going to shoot Daniel? If it hadn’t happened until it happened, then she couldn’t remember it.
I’m confused and I’m lovin it.
April 30th, 2009 at 4:44 am
Seems like they’ve spent a LOT of time on other tertiary characters that meen MUCH LESS to the show’s plot than Teresa? Think about all the other characters they’ve spent countless episodes on (i.e. Anna Lucia, Eco, Rose/Bernard, Libby, Walt/Michael, Sun/Jin, Boone, etc.)
As i see it now, they meant nothing to the show’s plot, yet we know way more than we need of their stories. Maybe if they had given us just a snip-it of Theresa, we’d know more than what Daniel revealed before he got off’d. I’m sure part of this was because they didn’t know how many season they had before the show ended and they needed filler stories, but it just seems like all the characters that have direct impact on the show’s plot have been given the least amount of screen time. that could be for suspense but COME ON! Enough with the games and start answering questions, for real. we have 21 hours left in the entire series guys…!
April 30th, 2009 at 4:46 am
@John F Thanks for the Wired Magazine link!
April 30th, 2009 at 5:14 am
Is Daniel Dead?
Sorry – I have to rebut my own previous post about Faraday’s death. It was never confirmed that he was the voice behind the camera in the 2008 Comic Con video. And in a recent interview on Lostpedia, DL said about the clip that “some people think they heard Faraday’s voice…” I just watched the video again while watching the most recent episode and now I don’t think it was Dan’s voice in the Comic Con video. In fact, near the end Chang says the person’s name and it doesn’t sound like any part of Daniel or Faraday. Ergo, he could actually be dead.
April 30th, 2009 at 5:31 am
@Tony
Daniel made a point in this episode of emphasizing his first name, I forgot which character he was talking to, but I noticed he down played answering to his last name.
Maybe Theresa’s story will be more revealed as we get Charles and/or Eloise’s.
I still can’t understand why Eloise would want Daniel to die unless she gets some intel from Smokey or Jacob or something
April 30th, 2009 at 5:35 am
Quick observations:
So Lost was ALWAYS about Time Travel?? (shock)
Ben always knew what was about to happen in earlier seasons… for example, he was ready for the plane to come down and quickly knew what to do.
You can’t undo the past(s), which means there can be multiple “pasts.” Time is not linear, but like a folded piece of paper.. multi-dimensional
Ben is Locke’s younger half-brother.. same mom
(anyone want to disagree?)
When Sawyer called Kate “freckles,” Juliet could hear it in his voice that he still loved Kate
The plane crash can’t be undone because it has happened. In other words, you can’t erase yourself.
Only the Future is unknown
Did Daniel really need to point a gun at the Others to find his mom?
April 30th, 2009 at 6:08 am
So, Daniel can time travel…interesting. I am not a big fan of the “time travel” theory, but other than Daniel being able to time travel, I don’t know how they explain how Daniel rushed Miles to get to the Orchid – once there, they observed the arrival of Dr. Chang wherein Daniel states “right on time”. (Not to mention, but I guess I am going to, that the choice of words used in this episode plays in with the whole theme of the episode which was “time” – most memorable being with his mother stating something like: “I can make time for both.” – After re-watching the episode, the word time or the suggestion thereof is the center of this episode)
Also, throughout the episode, Daniel continually looks at his diary/journal as if it is a roadmap for what he is suppose to do next. This is highly suggestive that for Daniel, all of these events had already occurred. Add in the fact that they focused in on Widmore pushing aside the Wired magazine that features “Time Travel” really makes you go hmmmm…..
Or, maybe it is not time travel; maybe it is the Desmond effect (and in my opinion, something created by Daniel that got a hold of Desmond that made him go back in time) wherein he is in a “coma” state in the present time but is alive and well in the past where he has to resolve an issue that is occurring in the present time – then the “flashing back and forth between present and past which allowed him to get to a different time period in the past but always returning to same time period in the present. (Insert one of my many favorite songs: “Let’s do the time warp again”)
But, does this theory really hold true? For Desmond, it is him in the past with his current state of mind; for Daniel, it is him in the past, but it does not appear that he has his current state of mind; it appears as if he is actually living in that very moment and has to write everything down or else he will not be able to remember it. But then again, it does play into the side effects of “time travel” which is memory loss (for Lost anyway); and the cure for memory loss: the island – Desmond and Daniel recovering due to being on the Island wherein Theresa and others on the freighter do not. (This also might explain why Theresa is still in a coma and Daniel is not seeing how Daniel tried his experiment on himself) If Daniel is able to “time travel”, it might also explain the Comic Con video. Okay, I digress as I now have a headache.
A quick blurb on Eloise Hawking and Charles Widmore – as we learned during the episode, Charles is the father of Daniel. But it was the word play between Eloise and Charles that I find to be very interesting. Basically, as to Daniel, it is their child, but her son. So, as to Penny, is she their child, but his daughter?
Okay, time to find some Advil.
Love the Podcast – keep up the great work!!!!
April 30th, 2009 at 6:19 am
So for Eloise Hawking the final scene of the episode (Eloise shoots Daniel) is followed in time by the first scene of the episode (a crying Elloise tells young Daniel he has to concentrate on his science studies and give up piano).
At some point between these events she realizes she has no choice but to guide his life so that he returns to the island, even if she will end up killing him. I assume she and Widmore read in Daniels journal and/or learned from the 815ers in 1977 what happened after Oceanic 815 crashed in 2004 and Ajira 316 landed in 2007. Eloise likely left the island to steer Daniel to his destiny while Widmore stayed behind (until Ben ousted him).
It appears Eloise was central to getting the Oceanic 6 back on Ajira 316. I wonder how much ‘influence’ was placed on other Losties. Ie. Charles Widmore forbidding a Desmond/Penny relationship leading Desmond to the sailing race and the Swan Hatch. Did Widmore, Eloise, Alpert, etc. spend 1977 – 2004 trying to ensure certain passengers ended up on Oceanic 815?
I assume (hope?) whatever happened, happened and season 6 will return to a current (2007) timeline without having to keep track of time loop mysteries. (Hmm, How could a young Eloise read Daniel’s journal in 1977 when she didn’t buy if until his graduation years later?)
April 30th, 2009 at 6:23 am
Jack, Kate, Locke, Saywer (James), and all the original castaways, who have gone back in time, eventually get on their original flight over the island from Australia. Desmond goes with his wife Peggy, and their son, back to the island. With all the shows left, eventually there’s a flash as the plane flies over the island. The original castaways are then back in the present, as it relates to the original (first) time the plane flew over the island. The plane lands, and no one has any recollection about what has transpired in the past. None of the castaways even know each other. They walk off another uneventful flight, which thousands of people do every day. Follow me?
April 30th, 2009 at 6:23 am
sorry..Penny
April 30th, 2009 at 6:49 am
I’m sure this is something that was even thought of in Season 1: What if the airplane never crash landed on the island? That’s exactly what Jack is attempting to do reading Daniel’s journal (as shown for next week’s episode). If that was the case and Jack somehow successfully altered time, then we’d have all the dead characters returning (I could see that happening for let’s say the very last episode of the series). But the major downside to all of this would be the fact that many characters would still have miserable lives if nothing has changed:
Kate would go to jail
Hugo would still think his money is cursed
Aaron might actually be given up for adoption
Locke would still be handicapped
Sawyer…well his life wouldn’t change that much. Sure he’s improved in the past 3 years however he was only banned from Australia, so he’d just go back to the U.S. and continue to scam people.
Sun wouldn’t be pregnant
etc.. etc…
Just thought I’d throw that out. But as for the episode as a whole, it was slightly predictable with Faraday’s father being Widmore (I’ve speculated that for awhile now).
April 30th, 2009 at 7:09 am
I did not like this episode – “The Variable.” They rushed right through it and some of the plot twists were “anvilicious,” as our hosts like to say.
I hated the fact that Daniel, completely out of character, ran into the Others’ camp waving a gun and threatening people. Stupid. It’s like the writers wanted to find a way to conclude Daniel’s story line and they chose the crudest way possible.
I also DID NOT LIKE the fact that Eloise Hawking conveniently ran into Penny at the hospital. WTF? It was not clear to me what she was doing there, other than to run into Penny. I thought for a moment that she was going to take “little Charlie,” but then she did not. I have read some perverse speculation that little Charlie Hume is actually Charles Widmore, and he’s his own grandpa. I think this episode gives some credence to this idea.
My least favorite episode this season.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:14 am
With regards to Daniel’s journal, I believe that Eloise kept it and learned all about her son, and that she also added bits of information to it regarding the eventual “incident” and how daniel spoke with Cheng in the Orchid station to set up a group of people leaving the island. At some point while Dan was in Ann Arbor with Dharma in the ’70s he spoke with his mom and learned about the exact time of the incident and his role in saving some of the Dharma people like Miles and Charlotte. Eloise bought Dan the same journal and gave it to him as a gift knowing that he would need it in the course of his destiny with the island.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:24 am
I have to wonder whether they are moving things toward everyone going back to the island. Desmond won’t go back to the island, but if Eloise manages to motivate Penny into wanting to go to the island via some type of Daniel connection. Eloise said that everyone had to go back, so I anticipate both Aaron, Sun’s Baby, Walt, Charles and whoever else will end up back on the island as well. I for one am in the camp that Daniel can’t be dead unless his death serves a much larger purpose on the island.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:24 am
Great show and I love to hear your podcasts. I have a couple of observations and questions.
When was the last time anyone saw or heard Jacob on the island? Was it when Locke heard him say “Help me”? Most recently, Christian Sheppard has been the “speaking for Jacob”. I am happy we will have some scenes of Jacob from the past with some of our group but why does he need help and why is Christian speaking for him?
When Eloise stated for the first time in a long time, she doesn’t know what comes next, she really sounded relieved. I know many have faulted her as a horrible mom but I cannot imagine how much it must have pained her to know she had to sacrifice her son because, in her younger years, she rashly shot a man in the back who was calling our her name and speaking to Richard. Her hasty decision to shoot not only cost her her son, it almost cost everyone their lives. I am not sure how it will play out but I believe Daniel’s completed journal will be a major part of it. And, just how did he get the completed journal and who gave it to Eloise when Daniel was playing the piano?
Personally, I hope we do not find in the last show of season 6 that they “fixed it” and the plane never crashed. I would hate to hink that Charlie never found love and courage, that Sawyer never found love and leadership; that Kate would be heading to jail for the murder of her father; that Claire flew to CA and handed her baby over to strangers; that Locke is still in a wheel chair; Ben would die from his tumor; Rose would die of cancer; and Jack still hated his father and had no faith in things he could touch.
Thank you for listening, Debbie
April 30th, 2009 at 7:28 am
I think that the scene we first see with Dan playing the piano happens after Dan speaks with his mom in the 70’s (which we haven’t seen yet, but I think we will at some point) and she realizes that she MUST set him on the course that leads to his death even though it breaks her heart. Also, if I killed a future version of my own son, i think that when he was born I would have at least given him a different name in an effort not to be creeped out every day of their life.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:36 am
Is greg Nations still working on Lost because the amount of big continuity errors this season is way too high for a show that’s biggest continuity errors used to be moved props, flipped images, and props that hadn’t been created in the year a given scene took place.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:46 am
While the shot of Daniel (I hope it’s not true but it probably is) dying lingered as realization and darkness came upon him, the soundtrack building in the background seemed to be signaling that the Thud was about to happen and I think I actually protested out loud because it certainly didn’t fell like an hour had passed…not to mention that my mouth had been hanging open ever since Daniel was shot, wider still when it was revealed that Ellie did the shooting. (The actress playing younger Eloise did a great job of hinting, by her expression, that she knew exactly who she had shot…and totaling selling that she didn’t when she asked who he was and then bewilderment at his response.)
Holy freakin’ crap indeed.
So much ore I hope to be able to respond to more thoroughly later, but wanted to at least get the following posted:
I rarely catch easter eggs on initial viewings, but the very first one in “The Variable” jumped right, thanks to my love of old music – and I don’t mean from the 70s or even the 50s, but from pre-World War II back to the turn of the last century. The song young Daniel was playing on the piano (and which older Daniel plays later in the episode), is “I’m Always Chasing Rainbows” and is a favorite of mine; it has a sweet, subtly complex melody and lyrics that resonate very personally for me — and which certainly provide a most poignant coda for Daniel:
I’m always chasing rainbows
Watching clouds drifting by
My schemes are just like all my dreams
Ending in the sky
Some fellas look and find the sunshine
I always look and find the rain
Some fellas make a winning some time
I never even make a gain believe me
I’m always chasing rainbows
Waiting to find a little bluebird in vain
April 30th, 2009 at 7:49 am
Well, there was definitely a lot to mine from this episode, but what I meant to write was that there is “so much MORE I hope to respond to” rather than “so muce ore”…. (At least I got to make a pun out of my typo!)
April 30th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Overall, this wasn’t a very good episode. My major area of disappointment stems from the complete lack of exposition about the physical properties of the island. The teaser in my program guide said “Faraday finally comes clean about what he knows about the island.” Really? When? Wouldn’t some explanation of the time differential/ payload experiment seem warranted at this stage? How about how the island floats independently through space/time? What is the source of the electromagnetic energy? Etc. Hopefully, Eloise will fill us in, but I was expecting more from Faraday.
On second viewing, I saw some of the veiled emotion in Hawking leading up to the twist at the end, but I still felt something was lacking in the Hawking/Faraday relationship. Granted Hawking’s omniscience about what must happen and her subservience to her role as mediator of destiny might make her emotionally cold and distant toward her son, but I felt the power of her sacrifice was slightly diminished by their lack of chemistry. Did it seem like Hawking was an absentee mother to some extent in Faraday’s adult years (she dropped in to give Daniel a graduation gift) and why does Faraday not carry the name of Hawking or Widmore?
Faraday playing with guns was comletely out of character. He even admits he doesn’t know what he’s doing. The only defense I can offer about that is that Faraday himself is under the gun in terms of time. He’s taking a shortcut just like Ben did when he didn’t have time to talk Locke into hanging himself again. He only has 4 hours to arrange some procedure with Eloise, return to Dharmaville, and coordinate with Chang and operations at the Swan hatch.
Was that the famous Luger Faraday was armed with? If so, we see how it got into the hands of the others.
I agree with Ryan that one of my favorite parts of the episode and one of the greatest double entendres ever was when young Daniel said “I can make time.” But will this be all for naught with his death or will his actions alter the loop?
In terms of the loop, have we ruled out an ending in which 815 doesn’t land safely in LA, but rather merely crashes killing all aboard? More of the Donnie Darko ending or The Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge ending in which all of these events are an imaginary flash in the moment before death. Long live the dream. BTW, I saw a promotional photo in TV Guide last week that once again incorporates some real world items into a dreamlike island setting along with the cast. Ben is sitting on one of those prototypical, old-school hospital beds. The whispers, the light in the eyes, the recurrent monitors and alarms–just the hospital ward in which they all lie?
April 30th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Thank you Sandy. That fits right in. There’s something about light waves that I haven’t been able to put my finger on yet. “The light doesn’t quite scatter right.” –DF.
I felt inclusion of the Rainbow Drive-in was a hint as much as an homage to the local scene.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:24 am
The rule that prevails is WHATEVER HAPPENED, HAPPENED, you can’t change ANYTHING and Daniel is the living proof of it. Even the mention of the Variable was meant to happen so that Eloise would kill the son she sent to the island whose purpose was to explain THE O6 the “rules of the game”. “Universe has a way of self course-correcting”. Nosebleed.
WIDMORE, I believe is good and on the same side as BEN, even though they had their differences, they both play for the ISLAND.
Jack’s mission is, I believe, to fight the Ilana crew(THE REAL ENEMIES OF THE ISLAND) along with Kate, Hugo and the rest, that’s why they were brought to the Island in the first place.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:25 am
I’m sorry about the spelling mistakes
April 30th, 2009 at 8:25 am
AND I LOVED THIS EPISODE
April 30th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Mike,
I have felt there was a time loop ever since Ben’s comment when his daughter died “he changed the rules” and also the episode “the other woman”where Ben is imprisoned in “new otherton” and he sends Harper to Juliet and she says “Ben is exactly where he wants to be” yet he still knows what is happening on the beach. He always is a step ahead because he has lived it all before, either in a time loop or by time travel like Desmond in “The Constant”, and Eloise going throught the motions of selling a ring to Desmond is another sign of being in a time loop. Plus as Doc Jensen states in today’s lost column, perhaps all the errors like young Ben’s wound changing locations, are due to time glitches rather than continuity errors. (sp?)
tvguidemagazine.com interviewed Darlton today and they claim Daniel is really dead, that they needed his death to further the story.
April 30th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Oh my god, this was the worst Lost for English accents ever (and that is saying something)
Worst offender was young Charlotte. Holy crap, what was that accent supposed to be? “Ma name’s char-lit whats yirs” Ugh, so bad.
Second point, if this is the end of Dan then colour me disappointed. Not least of all because his choice to go into the others’ camp (how did kate/jack/dan manage to sneak up on them again? for a second I thought they’d happened across rose/bernard/other survivors camp which would’ve been an awesome moment.) with a gun and point it at Richard is one of the stupidest plans in this show to date. Ridiculous. And his flashback was so rushed it weakened dan as a character. Notice the parallel between young dan being told he’s supposed to become a man of science (rather than a man of humanities) and doing so vs young locke being told he’s supposed to be a man of science (vs a man of sports/a hunter) and resisting, back in series 3.
The biggest flaw of season 5 so far has been how rushed it is. I get the feeling they’re focusing too much on making a really stunning finale people will remember and the rest of the show is suffering. They should either have removed a plot line or added another few episodes to this season.
Also, annoying moment: Jack not getting the fact that anything can happen to them because it’s their present. It just made Jack appear more stupid than he’s supposed to be for the sake of reminding us anyone can die. We get it, writers.
April 30th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Also on the concept of humans as variables: I really, really, really, really, really, *really* hope the point of the show isn’t going to come down to be about the existence of free will. That would be the most boring, hackneyed conclusion. I also hope it isn’t all about being a man of faith not to the island but to *each other* – something along the lines of the season 2 ending (“all someone really needs is someone that truly loves them”)
Basically i just hope after all is said and done the writers have got something original in mind for the message of the show.
April 30th, 2009 at 9:15 am
Tim I 100% agree with you. In the “Dead is Dead” blog in this website i give a huge rant about how they rushed everything that was revealing about the plot and forgot about the little details, they so painstakingly created in the first 4 seasons of the show. Darlton said in the lostpedia interview that they’re dropping the Libby story completely as well as many other details. They just want to focus on the main mythology and what “they” think is important to accomplishing that goal, yet they throw in a 5 minute scene of Hurley trying to re-write Empire and a completely worthless scene at the hospital with Desmond and Penny that was created by a worthless scene of Penny almost getting shot. Please…don’t have time my butt! 21 more hours left…that’s all i have to say. disappointing.
April 30th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I think a lot of people are disappointed about this episode because the consequences of losing Faraday.
First, His Role:
He was the only geek in the show that could make sense what was happening and could lay out the rules of how things worked. He’s the “Doc Brown” of the show; before we only had Locke explaining things on the tune of “because it’s our destiny”
2nd, The consequences:
I honestly think that this opens the scenario where Desmond will die too. They seemed to be complementary characters; and we know the island “is not done with him yet.”
His loss will affect those who are into the mythology of the show the most.
April 30th, 2009 at 10:19 am
I agree with Mikey in FL that Daniel entering the Others camp with a raised gun is out of character for him, and sadly appears to be a device to enable Daniel to be shot by Eloise. But I suspect that Daniel knows he needed to die, for some reason that I have no idea of yet… We do know that the Temple can resurrect. Also, Locke has been resurrected as well, sans Temple. So I don’t think that dead is necessarily dead. Especially if this entire time loop collapses, and an alternate reality (like O815 arriving just as it should in LA) has Daniel alive and well, and promising NEVER EVER will he go back in time to “fix things.”
Regarding the notorious Comic Con video of Chang being recorded by Faraday, I am as yet not willing to throw it out as “promotional.” Darlton are too careful to put out such a tantalizing piece of info without it being canon; that would be sloppy sloppy sloppy, and they are not.
My suspicion is that Widmore is lying about faking the wreckage of O815. I believe that is the real plane down there in the trench. Time on the island is disconnected from time in the “real” world. There is anomaly caused by Daniel’s work with time travel, and two realities (or more) are competing for “collapse.” I use the term “collapse” in the sense of quantum mechanics Wave Equation — consider the famous Schroedinger’s Cat paradox (http://tr.im/k8G2). O815 will end up on the sea floor, or will land in LA. A huge side adventure is taking place that will determine the outcome. Does that make any less sense than time travel? (lol)
Poor Penny — she’s in for some really sad surprises. I don’t think that the scene at the hospital was a waste of valuable episode time for a plot line that isn’t going anywhere. What could alter Desmond from his promise to Penny that he’ll never leave her… how about the disappearance of Charlie Hume?
@Msredhd — great mystery! (Daniel’s journal has a very interesting future awaiting it). I suspect that Journal is an important key. Some want it. Some want it destroyed because going back in time creates messy time loops. But to destroy the journal so that no one can keep using it requires, well… going back in time to destroy all copies.
@Tim R — yes, quite bizarre that Daniel, Kate, and Jack make it to the Others camp without first being seen. The Others had to have known they were coming, and allowed them to arrive. Don’t know why — someone (Richard Alpert, my guess) must know something.
April 30th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Count me among those disappointed by not only this episode, but much of the season. I feel as though the story itself has felt rushed and disjointed. I’m sure these last few eps will be enjoyable, but overall I simply haven’t been the biggest fan of the time traveling aspects of S5.
That said, the prospect of the losties attempting to change the past interests me and here’s why: if the Swan is never built, Desmond will never be found wheb he is shipwrecked. Instead, he will be left alone on a contaminated island.
If they erase the 815ers’ history, Desmond’s fate becomes very cloudy.
April 30th, 2009 at 11:28 am
The Variable is an instant classic that will be admired, marveled, and calculated extensively as this season wraps up.
A. I don’t think the comic-con videos should be taken so seriously. I take them as cannon as Via Domus.
B. Please remember that this is LOST, and anything can happen.
C. I concur, if Jack and the losties try to prevent The Incident from happening, then yes they will arrive in L.A, and what we’ve seen would have never happened. But that very concept is whats going to keep us tuned in for the 4 hours of this season. Why wouldn’t it.
D. Naturally it would be a cop out, ala Dallas. But it wont happen. LOST is better than that, and don’t anyone forget it.
E. Where does the name Faraday, come from regarding his last name?
F. Is there a little Dan running around on the island?
G. I have a very bad feeling for the Desmond Penny story…something has to be up.
H. Dan was great, and he will be missed. I still can’t believe he is dead.
I. Don’t forget that Whatever Happened, Happened. Sure they’re variables, but that doesn’t suggest that the Universe will implode in itself. We are just watching whats allready happened, except were watching it happen. Does that make sense?
Obviously the incident happens regardless. Over the next 2 episodes of LOST we will see how.
What ever they try to do, to prevent The Incident, will undoubtedly cause the incident.
I feel its unfair to ‘hate’ this episode at this place and time…wait till the season is over and then cast your hammer of hate. Maybe you’ll feel the same way, maybe you wont.
Lost has tremendous replay value, and I trust the producers and writers in bringing us the greatest show of this century.
PS
Where the **** Sayid?
Damn, I love LOST.
April 30th, 2009 at 11:40 am
“I think a lot of people are disappointed about this episode because the consequences of losing Faraday”
I’m not so sure about that. I liked the episode but was disappointed in some of it. I didn’t mind that Daniel died. He irritated me a bit, but having his mother encourage him to return to the island so that she could shoot him was just wrong. I can’t imagine even Joan Crawford doing that! It would have better to have her try to stop him and not be able to do so.
The shootout was just silly. First of all, why start shooting at people you know. Why would Radzinsky start shooting at one of Dharma’s valued scientists? Then they were 20 feet apart and no one could get a direct hit on anyone, yet Jack was able to shoot a barrel of gasoline. Just stupid.
Having Mrs. Hawking show up at the hospital to apologize to Desmond made little sense. How did she even know he was injured by Ben? There HAS to be something else behind her showing up at the hospital, perhaps something to do with that nurse who was going to watch Charlie.
It’s getting old hearing Desmond promise never to leave Penny. Clearly for him to have any future role in the show he’s going to have to leave Penny. They’re over-signaling something to come where he does leave her. I have no clue what. Heck maybe she leaves him.
The Eloise character of the ’50’s and ’70’s is a gun toot’in hot head. The Eloise of the current time is a master of calm. The character traits don’t match.
But it all gets back to how Eloise treats Daniel his whole life. It’s almost as if the only reason she even had a child was to send him back to the island so that she could kill him. That’s just wrong and totally unbelievable.
April 30th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Maybe this is just me not understanding time travel, but those of you who still believe “Whatever happened, happened” should technically believe that Daniel is still alive. It would be impossible for him to die in 1977 and be hanging out on a freighter in 2004. Regardless of the fact that ‘77 is their present, 1977 ALWAYS comes before 2007… For Daniel to die would mean that the future CAN be changed. So if Dan is dead, then the “Whatever happened, happened” theory is out the window.
Right?
April 30th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Though the exchange with Penny & Mrs. Faraday was fairly entertaining (“Ben Linus is your son?” “OH, No”), and Desmond was out of surgery OK… as a mom, I questioned the “This Nurse will watch your son” comment.
Zumi’s idea that something will shake Desmond to get him back in the mix of things – like Charlie Hume disappearing – would certainly shock things, but really, after thinking more about my immediate reaction to the nurse comment, it wouldn’t surprise me. I just don’t know who might do it? Charles is there, so is Ellie (but she leaves).
Besides, “the island isn’t done with you yet, Desmond”
April 30th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
@Rich I agree with you about something lacking in the Hawking/Faraday relationship. If speculation about Penny’s mom being Hawking is right, in comparing the two relationships, I feel that Hawking’s attitude toward Penny was far more sensitive and warm than her attitude toward Faraday. And Hawking was even MORE absent from that relationship. I sure didn’t get “sacrifice” when I watched her.
Which brings me to that “not Faraday’s mother” kick I’m still on. Yes, yes, we’ve been told she is…by she herself, by Widmore, by Faraday. I get it. But here’s the thing: there are lots of parallels on the show. Ben finds a child when he goes to destroy Danielle, decides to rescue her (and even preserves the name she received from her mother), brings her home and raises her as his own. Kate finds Aaron separated from Claire, decides to “rescue” him, at least from the island (again preserving the name he received from his mother), brings him home and begins to raise him as her own. (“He’s not even RELATED to you!” Jack says when she says she doesn’t want him near “her son”.) We know the warning Claire received about having her son raised by another (“an Other”…whichever). Yet there certainly are a lot of children running around being raised by others (“Others”?) or adults who have been raised by others. Add Locke to the list on that count. How about Ben? I guess we’ll find out about the extent of that whole memory loss thing, but we see enough to know that he feels he’s a part of the Others, not a part of the DI with his dad. And he WAS “raised” by an Other, like Lazarus. (Oh, just could not resist.)
(Far-fetched) Point being: would it be impossible to add Daniel to that list? Is Hawking visited (as Kate was) by Daniel’s biological mother with messages about what needed to happen? Does she raise Daniel knowing that he needs to believe that she is his mother? Does she raise him because he tells her in 1977 that she is his mother? Head is interior of the Hatch. Must turn fail-safe key.
One of the things I love about “Lost” is the way that there are layers upon layers to be peeled away, but perhaps on this question I sadly have come to the last layer, i.e. Hawking is Faraday’s mother. But I feel that the layers were pretty thin, then.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I guess I am in the minority, I have enjoyed this season. I have been watching Season 3 again, and I find it very boring, the whole cage storyline was awful. My one complaint for this season is that the rules of time are too confusing and take away from the story. But I love all the reveals. I also love the Hurley scenes, sometimes we just need a fun lighthearted scene, and the Hurley and Miles van scene accomplished that.
I also have to think it is very stressful writing this show, knowing that everybody is going to discuss every detail even the small ones. No matter what they do, somebody is going to dislike something about the episode. I love finding out the mythology and I think after viewing this season again as a whole this summer is going to be more fun. I can watch without trying to figure out what the rules of time are, and just try to pick up plotline points that I might have missed before.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
I’ve been thinking some more about this. First of all, never leave your kid with a strange nurse in the hospital. Especially not after almost being killed by a madman.
I am half expecting Jack and co. to succeed in their plan to make everything go “back to the way it was,” pre-flight, in which case Penny will find that little Charlie has disappeared, then return to the room to find that Desmond is gone too. Then again, her memory will probably be reset, as well.
There’s an ethical element to what Daniel (and now Jack) is trying to do. Sci-fi author Simon Hawke wrote a not-so-great series of novels called the Time Wars books, in which people spend a lot of time fighting things out in the past, while trying not to change the future. He basically says that if someone is born in your time, and you go into the past and prevent their birth, you effectively murder them. How does this apply to LOST? Think about baby Charlie. If Jack succeeds in his plan (the plan Daniel was trying to carry out), then Desmond’s baby will cease to exist. Aaron will too, or at least, he will revert back to his pre-birth state. This, plus the fact that, before the crash, everyone was screwed up, on drugs, in a wheelchair, on the edge of divorce, cancer-ridden, etc., makes me believe that there is no real upside to this plan. I’m hoping the writers give us something else to root for, because, frankly, I think everyone is at least a little better off because of the events in the show. Not fully redeemed, obviously, but at least we’re screwed up in different ways now. Plus, we’ve all got great tans and can start a fire without matches.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
I’m not buying it that Daniel is dead. They were very careful, I think, to leave that ambiguous. If I’m wrong and he’s dead in the in-the-flesh sense, he still may not be in the Christian Shepard sense.
Perhaps he ends up being Jacob. At this point, I’m just enjoying the ride. And as long as Desmond is still alive, on balance the episode worked for me.
…I would like to kick Sawyer’s butt and say CHOOSE ALREADY, but you know that’s not happening this season.
April 30th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
…in response to Luke, yes, I would never leave my 2 years old with anyone after the trauma he’s been though. I expected to see Eloise toting him out of the hospital. Also, did you notice the big silence from Kate as Jack was waxing enthusiastic about changing the future and never having the plane crash> Did he, uh, forget what she was heading back to?
April 30th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
@Stefani Yes, that “the nurse will watch your son” sent off alarm bells in me as well (and I’m not a mom). With so many children disappearing or being taken away…I like your idea that it gets Desmond back into the mix again.
I didn’t like this episode, ultimately. I felt set up, toyed with, felt like things were being obscured with cheesy action scenes (please no more shootouts unless flaming arrows are used…and with effect
, unbelievable plot points (“I have a gun and I’m not afraid to use it” Faraday), and phony reveals (“I’m his father”…so what? It meant something to reveal that Locke’s father was the one who conned Sawyer, even if we did already suspect it. I guess this didn’t feel like a piece of the puzzle falling into place.) I want to be surprised again, or at least, (may I wax prosaic?), I want another interesting thread woven into this complex tapestry that will one day reveal a beautiful, clear, coherent picture.
I don’t think I would mind the whole time course-correction that ends with 815 landing in LA because I don’t think it will necessarily be the case that the characters on that plane will not have changed. That Kate will head off to prison, that Sawyer will continue to be a con man, etc. It’s their present, not their past, as Miles tried to explain. And even though he was stumped by Hurley’s question about why Ben didn’t remember (was that it? I don’t remember precisely), remember Richard’s words about Ben not remembering, not being the same, changing, and also having no memory of the incident, after he “raises” him in the temple (I do like that pun).
Of course sometimes I feel like I’VE been to the temple and had my memory erased watching this show.
April 30th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Hey Jen and Ryan! Hey all!
Just one thing…
After all that has gone on, why, why, WHY would dopey Penny leave her child with “this nurse”? Who would do that?!?! Its not like Des was in the ICU…bring the frikkin kid to see his Dad!!!! BAD writers! Bad!!
Unless…its part of the story. Hmmmm
Ahhhh, LOST! I love you so!
April 30th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
I think it’s very interesting that Dr. Chang thought that Faraday’s claim — that he was from the future — was preposterous, but when confronted with the possibility that Miles was his son, he seemed like he was ready to believe it. It was almost as if Chang *wanted* it to be true, or that deep down he had already felt that connection with Miles and Faraday’s revelation would confirm and justify it. I have to say that I genuinely enjoy the loving father hiding under that cold, waxlike exterior…
April 30th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Penny must think like Kate, it’s okay to leave your kid alone. lol
HeyKir – I couldn’t believe she just left him there, for all she knows Ben is still after them. She has no way of knowing that Ben has left on a plane.
April 30th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Could Faraday have been back to the island at different times? Remember “JugHead” when a young Eloise Hawkings picks up Faraday w/Charlotte and the rest and she says to him “Not you again – who’s in charge here?” (I’m paraphrasing) – Anyway what was that all about?
Now in this episode, after she shoots her own son, she looks at him a says “who are you?”. Doesn’t she even remember him from before, once she sees his face? – I mean, he looks the same from when she saw him in 1954.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
My thought is this – What if Faraday’s mother didnt choose to send his son to the island, after she’d already shot him…….?? You could that was his fate, but she had the choice to convince him to go and to not play piano and do science blah blah blah……..but she choose to make him want to go…..what if she didn’t???? What if he stayed behind, but she’s already shot him previously…….or would that simply never have happened in the timeline of history…..
this messes with my head hahaha. Great Show.
April 30th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
While I’m upset that Daniel appears to be dead (and I think that he is); it opens up the “reason” for Jack to be on the island. From the previews, he has Daniel’s journal in hand and will try to follow his notes and instructions. Jack has been a Man of Science for his life so far, and now is learning to become a Man of Faith. What the Island needs, perhaps, is someone who can be both. Locke is all Faith and no Science; Daniel is all Science and no Faith.
Another thing re: Sawyer/Kate/Juliet – Sawyer calling Kate “Freckles” brings back a bit of the old Sawyer – the con man. Juliet recognizes that, she knows that deep down, Sawyer will do what he wants to get people to join him. That may be why she immediately gives up the combination to Kate, and why when Sawyer asks her if she’s still got his back, she doesn’t answer in the affirmative, but challenges him by saying the same back to him.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
A couple of thoughts.
When flight 815 crashed, we assumed that all the missing passengers died, but what if some of them traveled to a different time period just like the passengers of 316? If this were true, there may be several 815 “variables” on the Island affecting it’s future. Perhaps this same phenomena can bring people back from the dead. That seems to be the biggest variable there is!
Secondly, maybe the past can be changed, but it requires an encyclopedic knowledge of the future that only someone from the future could have. Hurley said that many problems can be solved through communication. That might be a hint that at some point people will be able to communicate across time. Perhaps that’s what the whispers in the jungle are.
So far it seems like people are reluctant to try to change the future. I wonder if Eloise had warned Daniel about being shot, if it could have been avoided. I think the fear of the unknown keeps people from trying in earnest.
Thanks!
April 30th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
Now that was a proper LOST episode. My thoughts in a random order …..
1. Eliose and Widmore are Daniels parents. No surprises there.
2. Eloise is not a nice mother, she sent Dan to the island knowing he was going to do. And she killed him !
3. Dan still on some level thinks he can save Charlotte.
4. Dan is dead ? Eh ? What ? No !
5. What will become of Sawyer and Juliet now?
6. Will Jack and Kate go through with Daniels plan to blow-up Jughead and prevent the incident ?
7. If their plan succeds will it stop the incident and if so will we reset again ?
8. If Dan is dead how did he make the video with Chang that was shown at Comic-Con ?
9. Is baby Charlie still waiting with that nurse ? Was anyone else screaming NOOOOOO at the TV when the Dr. said to Penny “Come with me, this nurse will watch your son”. I expected to see Hawking walking hand-in-hand with him out of the hospital. Now I suspect Widmore has taken him. I still think Desmond will go back to the island.
10. The shootout was a little lame. Radinski and his goons are rubbish shots.
11. Who is Pennys mum ?
12. Widmore did fake the crash … unless he’s lying …..
13. Why did Dan go into the Others camp with a gun ? Did he really expect to hold the entire camp hostage ? Someone was obviously going to shoot him.
14. Jack is back, sort of.
15. Sawyer screwed up big time saying “Freckles”.
16. How did Eloise know she was sending Daniel to his death if it hadn’t happened already ? If she knew then nothing would have changed.
16a. Is Daniels death the variable that matters. Will Eloise now do something different.
16b. Why would Eloise believe Daniel is her son ?
17. Only Frank and Miles left from the Freighter folk. Are they all going the way of the tailies ?
Please don’t let S5 or S6 end with 815 landing in LA and them all getting off … maybe 815 landing and none of them being on the plane would be better but not really that satisfying. I could perhaps live with S5 ending with them all back but not S6.
I think a real issue (maybe the major issue) obsessive LOST fans are facing is that we will not be satisfied with almost any ending …. the best we can hope for is something that is OK not cliched or obvious or just plain dumb ……
April 30th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
When Hawking sees Widmore outside the hospital and they talk, I felt her “Don’t Talk to Me about Sacrifice” being very close to when Locke says “Don’t tell me what I can’t do” same tone. Love Lost, love the podcast
April 30th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Sawyer’s use of the term of affection “freckles” was so innocuous that I overlooked it, but I think those indicating that Juliet understood the full implications of Sawyer’s appeal are on to something. She’s been cold ever since their dream of playing house began to unravel, but she took it took it to a whole new level here, openly questioning the most basic kind of trust she should expect from Sawyer. He was only insecure when he asked if Jules had his back, but she seemed to express that howling fear beneath a surface of calm that she would be abandoned and left utterly alone by yet another person to whom she had opened her heart.
April 30th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Some random thoughts:
John Fischer-I agree with you that the whole “I’ll never leave you Penny” is getting old and ridiculous. The Des-Penny meet-up in the hospital did not ring true for me…too melodramatic. No, “how are you feeling” or “the doctor says…” just cow-eyes and sloppy kissing….ugh.
I also think you may be onto something regarding Daniel’s conception and birth. Hawking may have deliberately conceived and given birth to Daniel to fulfill some definite purpose in the future. A future that she painstakingly orchestrated for his entire life. I suspect that she may even have tricked Charles Widmore into fathering Daniel and then gave him the last name of Faraday to keep Widmore from ever finding him. Could the search for his lost son be what compelled Charles to leave the Island repeatedly?
April 30th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Random thoughts Part 2:
Mark B-I had the same notion that no matter what ending the writers conceive for Lost, a portion of the Lost fandom is going to be unhappy. I can’t imagine that there is a scenario that they can come up with that all of us haven’t already proposed, disected, reformed, warmed over and discarded. It will be the biggest accomplishment in TV if they come up with something that totally gobsmacks all of us while leaving us satisfied.
Glenn-JC: about Elouis asking Daniel “who are you?’ She may have recognized him from 1954, but not know who he really was. So she’s not asking “who are you, I’ve never seen you before in my life”, but “who are you, I’ve seen you before and now you’ve got some ’splainin’ to do”.
What if Daniel provoked his own death to prove his new Variable theory. He was his own guinea pig. We all agree that it was just weird the way he went into the Hostiles’ camp waving that gun like he was asking to be shot. He had to prove to himself and to Jack that he could be killed. Moreover, what if his mother was in on the experiment. It is somehow important that Jack and our other Losties from 2004 be convinced that they can affect their own futures. Daniel just proved it.
Daniel’s story is a great Christ parallel: born under mysterious circumstances to fulfill a purpose, a life carefully lived to lead him to that purpose, leaving behind his written “word” in the form of a journal for others to follow his example, a tragic and seemingly senseless and unexpected death that may result in the salvation of others, seeming abandonment of his parent at his time of crisis. If he rises from the dead after three days I’m really going to wonder!!!
April 30th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
I have an idea on the security number 141717 and I hope I’m the first to float this. I think the numbers signify a date: 1st April 1717. No, wait, this being an American show, that date would be 4th January 1717. Regardless, I think the number signifies the date that the Black Rock crashes on the island. With the Black Rock presumably to be explained in the final season, I’m guessing I’ll have to wait until next year to be proven right (or wrong).
May 1st, 2009 at 12:46 am
141717 …. no real idea but I’m thinking some kind of link to Egyptian, Aztec or Mayan calanders …..
Like the idea about the Black Rock mind but according to Lostpedia most of it’s history is around the early to mid 1800’s so impossible it crashed in 1717. Maybe it’s madien voyage date ….. 100 year old ship unlikely ?
May 1st, 2009 at 2:38 am
From TVguide.com
TVGuide.com has confirmed that Daniel Faraday is, in fact, dead, despite the somewhat ambiguous ending to Wednesday’s episode, “The Variable,” and that actor Jeremy Davies is no longer a member of the show’s full-time cast.
May 1st, 2009 at 3:56 am
Ah, I didn’t think to check Lostpedia regarding the Black Rock. I did check the date historically and it turns out that on the 4th January 1717 England, the Netherlands and France signed a treaty called the Triple Alliance. This could be a clue about potential allegiances on the island but, let’s be honest, that’s just ridiculous.
May 1st, 2009 at 4:51 am
Why is Dan waving a gun around like that? Why not walk in and ask where she is? I think that’s what Jack was trying to say before Kate stopped him.
How did they sneak up on the Hostiles? That never happens… except when it’s convenient for the story.
I’ve been a little tired of hearing the explaination of how their time travel works… over and over from so many different losties. They keep telling us over and over how their present is now but what happened happened for all else . We get it . we’ve all seen time travel movies. we saw how they try to change things but it only makes things go the way it always had. Then right before Daniel gets shot, he reminds Jack AGAIN that anyone can die out of the time traveling Losties, practically saying it to the audience while winking and pointing to himself. It’s like the writers are talking down to us like we’re stupid.
16. How did Eloise know she was sending Daniel to his death if it hadn’t happened already ? If she knew then nothing would have changed.
… uh. um. It happened thirty years ago when she was on the island.
May 1st, 2009 at 4:57 am
Just wanted to add a little easter egg that they dropped in this episode that I don’t think anyone here has mentioned yet. Young piano Daniel counted 864 clicks of the metronome, and 864 is 108 x 8 (and multiples of 4, 8, and 16 to boot). I don’t think it means anything, but it’s fun.
May 1st, 2009 at 5:24 am
Wow, not sure how I feel about this episode?
I was struck by Dan’s urgency right from the get go, which sort of explained his going against his usual character (like taking a gun and waving it around) to me. He was compelled to get things done and didn’t have a lot of time or patience for people who could not get him results.
Seeing how he was pushed by his mother in a direction which may not have been his choice was interesting. Makes me wonder what he would have went on to do if it was left up to him? Maybe he would have just ended up experimenting with time anyway. Or maybe he would have went on to compose some great piece for the piano? However I think that something happened to Eloise, just prior to her going in a closing the lid on the piano. The emotion she showed while watching him play while some how knowing that she had to guide him in a direction that she knew would ultimately lead to his death I felt was real. Something happened that cemented the fact that her son had no choice but to go back to the Island and die by her own hand, perhaps a visit from a recently banished Widmore. I’m sure that we haven’t seen the whole background on that. Certainly from Dan’s perspective she is/was not a great mother.
Here is what I am thinking: ( If you don’t watch previews don’t read this part)
In the preview for next weeks episode there was a brief picture of Jack about to dive into a pond of some kind, while standing by on shore is Sayid and the young Eloise, and it looked to me in the still photo of it that she has a baby bump, is she pregnant with Dan? Penny? Both? I don’t know. But if she has come to understand that she did just kill her unborn child, perhaps she is pushed into helping our 815′ers into attempting to change the outcome, perhaps this will be the first taste for her of the whatever happened, happened? Maybe then she leaves the island either out of fear for her child/children, or as punishment for helping the dream team (Jack, Sayid, et al). I think that we have yet to see the reason why she came to push Dan so hard and was so distant emotionally from him. Which caused him to work harder- for her approval, which caused him to take the Job from Daddy dearest- to make her proud of him, which caused him to go back to the ’70s and be shot by his own Mother! Wow, I think I need a drink!
As always love to hear what you think!
May 1st, 2009 at 5:34 am
My Fave Theories
1. I suspect that Daniel knows he needed to die (Zhami)
2. My suspicion is that Widmore is lying about faking the wreckage of O815. I believe that is the real plane down there in the trench. (Zhami)
3. Widmore now has his grandson.. thanks to his “nurse”
4. What if Daniel provoked his own death to prove his new Variable theory. He was his own guinea pig (Connie In Alaska)
5. Time is not a straight line, but like folded paper and can have the same time-point on different folded layers
May 1st, 2009 at 6:02 am
The guy Miles “talked” to (Felix) wasn’t a “fakeout”. Miles said he was bringing Widmore grave photos and an order form for a 747. Miles did not say Ben or Widmore faked the crash. It was left open to interpretation.
Also, I really don’t get your taste in episodes. I know different people watch the show for different reasons, but I thought “Dead Is Dead” and “The Variable” were the best episodes this season, and thought that “Whatever Happened, Happened” revealed next to nothing and was mostly a waste of time.
To say Faraday’s episode was “merely good” and Kate’s was worth raving about… I dunno. I strongly disagree.
May 1st, 2009 at 6:18 am
Quick question: Sorry I’m new here. Can some one define Jaters? Like I think it is Kate/Sawyer fans. Like what is the origin? Is this an acronym? Is there also one for Jack and Kate?
May 1st, 2009 at 6:54 am
Eric in Massachusetts: Many episodes this season have been chock full of reveals and clues related to the mythology of “LOST.” But some of them have been so at the expense of character. We’re not Kate fans at all, something we get grief for all the time, but her episode was perhaps the best one ever for her character. “The Variable” might have twisted our brains in knots on the sci-fi front, but I think it handled Daniel’s character pretty poorly.
Lauren from Parma: Fandom shorthand for Jack and Kate fans are “Jaters,” and Sawyer and Kate fans are “Skaters.”
May 1st, 2009 at 7:12 am
Rewatching this episode really shows Eloise’s emotion when she talks to Daniel for the last time before his departure. I was hoping that she was so eager to send him back is that his special gift is to be able to change time and that perhaps this “time”, it would be different and he wouldn’t get shot…of course I guess she could have said watch your back…LOL
A question about the H-Bomb and the fail safe switch. Daniel says he is going to use the H-Bomb to negate the energy. Ok..pushing the button keeps the energy in check. Desmond failing to push the button causes energy to be released and the plane to crash. Locke fails to push the button and Desmond hits the fail safe….what happens to the energy? If all it took to end the whole cycle was to push the fail safe, why didn’t someone do it sooner? I still am unsure what is going on there. I honestly don’t think Ben knew about the button. The incident and the Swan hatch were created after he was an Other so he had no knowledge of its creation per se. Looking back on his capture by Russo, he seems unaware of his surroundings, etc. What did he have to gain by Locke not pushing the button, etc. ?
May 1st, 2009 at 7:19 am
One other question regarding life after death…
Could it be that both Locke and Christian are alive on the island not because they are somehow resurrected, but that perhaps their timelines get altered so that they don’t die afterall?
My head hurts….
May 1st, 2009 at 7:21 am
A note on “variables”.
Variables can change, but a sytem of equations must always balance.
When you have multiple equations with multiple unknowns and you change one of the variables, the other variables will also change to balance the system of equations.
Even though variables can change, that change cannot unbalance a system of equations.
May 1st, 2009 at 8:26 am
Tim in DC-Nice work on the metrinome count breakdown. Music is facinating in that it inspires the creative and at the same time is very precise and mathematical. And I’m not just talking about rhythm and beats. The whole of music theory is very mathematical and be easily described through numbers and equations. I was not at all surprised that Young Daniel would be drawn to the piano and music. It would have been a healthy outlet for his creative side. Too bad Hawking squashed it like a bug.
May 1st, 2009 at 8:58 am
I used to think that Richard did not age because he’s actually already “dead” and has been for a long long time; but now I think he just keeps skipping through time! If the latter is the case, then he can die…. but of course the island would revive him because he is such an important man to it. So, Daniel will come again! Either as a man who has been healed by the island, or because during all of the time looping, something will change, and he will not have died.
I agree that Desmond has been Daniels constant, but I don’t think Dan has been Desmonds… I thought it was Penny! Desmond keeps telling Penny he will never leave her because he really means it… their love is so strong, and that is why so many of us viewers love them as a couple! (Unlike our adorable Sawyer, who can’t decide if he loves Juliet or Kate!) However, maybe they will go back to the island together… out of a common need… to find Charlie! Then again, won’t that be a problem for Des… doesn’t he need his constant to be off the island????? So Confusing, and I love it!!!
May 1st, 2009 at 9:38 am
Locke’s dad was a heartless conman. Ben’s pops was an abusive alcoholic. Jack’s dad — who knows what’s up with that guy? But all of these cowboys with Daddy Issues can’t compare to Faraday and his Mommy Issues. This woman sent her son to the Island so she could kill him. As much as getting pushed out of a four-story window might sting, that doesn’t have anything on dying…
unless…
Faraday lives, which I personally believe he will — but not from some Temple resurrection.
I think one crucial piece to the big puzzle is Desmond. Why show him at all in this episode? Why was Eloise checking on him? It is because Desmond is The Variable. (notice that the title refers to variable in the singular, not plural like Faraday used in his theory of the Losties being “the variables.”)
Faraday was right in explaining that free will can change destiny but there’s only one person that can transcend time: Desmond. We saw this earlier when Faraday gave him a new memory and told him he is “special.”
I believe Eloise will send Desmond to the Island to save her son. This intervention by Desmond will be known as The Incident and as a result, Faraday will be stuck in an alternate time loop (separate reality), where he remembers things of his past and future at once. This is why we saw him crying watching the fake 815 wreckage.
May 1st, 2009 at 9:51 am
Its been the first time that we, in Quebec, get to watch the French version before the original US season ends.
Ep 1 just aired.
to John Fisher
How could Dan have a note in his journal of Chang’s arrival at the Orchid? He must have been there at this very moment before.
He could not convince Chang this time
but seems that Chang got around developing the time travel powers under the Orchid
Also Chang is heard ordering evacuation in the previews
An intelligent man he may have added up Hurley’s hints to Dan’s reveal and move forward in sending people to safety (including baby Miles)
How did Hawking know of Desmond wound ? She had to be told by Ben just before he boarded A316.
Dan experiments on himself in Oxford may have triggered some lagging memory loss sequels which became more severe
Maybe the experiment tried on Theresa bombed as she was left displaced in time mid-air
Why was it so important for Kate to take guns?
I too find bizarre that they would reach the Hostile camp unnoticed
The whole Dan behavior with the gun was really out of place
Is it just bad acting or bad writing?
Beth
Time is linear for each person
Some move along without going any back & forth (like Éloise)
Others like Dan or Locke (and the flashies) live 2004 before 1954 & 1977 (for a second time but in another place) then move to 2007
For some reason Locke has not lived 2004 @ 2007
Lets reflect on Dan’s birth
He must be around 30 yo in 2007
which makes him born in 1977 ±1-2 years
So was it before or after he got shot by his mother?
Like Connie mentioned,
maybe there is a little Dan in the camp.
I guess Faraday must be his step dad’s name
But how could Ellie leave the island during the 80’s ?
What puzzles me is that Hawking is not taking a more active part in trying to alter events
She knows what she has done to his son all along
Here we have Hostiles who meet a guy (Dan) who has not aged much in 23 years
Yet why would they be impressed ?
They have Richard Alpert who never seems to age
They must see that they are aging themselves (like Ellie)…
What if Dan built the LamPost in LA during his Ann Arbour stay 74 @ 77
This would mean he knew in 1977 how to go to the island (noted in his journal) and could have gone a number of times in the following years.
BTW his journal seems far more stocked than when he looks through it at the beach camp in 2004
My feeling is that there was a lot of back & forth during the 74 @ 77 time period
Speaking of the journal
Dan dropped his bag as he entered the camp
Forget Ellie getting the journal Jack’s got it He somehow retreived it
Regarding the journal pages being in Ben’s office in 2007
lets remember that there were equations written on Danielle’s map of the island and on the hatch blast door map (I feel Dan is the only person who could have written these equations)
So he has been around…
The Incident
It has to do with JugHead
How would the DI people know that it needs to be concreted? and how would they develop this button-activated release mechanism?
All these people (DI and Hostiles) are still around 15 years later for the purge.
If the turning of the key in 2004 detonated an H-Bomb
How were Desmond Ecko and Locke still be alive?
Our understanding is that it imploded (because of the EM properties), but there would still be some deadly radiations around.
Knives
I looked at the preview in super slowmo (1/15 sec frames)
Jack is swimming to the Temple and finds a man we cannot recognize
However we later see him with Sayid olding torches with two other person unidentified (seen from their back)
It also looks like Juliet will not be getting Sawyier’s back as he gets beaten by Radzinski
Have they run out of thruth serum?
May 1st, 2009 at 10:06 am
So everytime we see Richard Alpert at a camp, he’s coming out of his “office” with a coffee cup. Perhaps things are a little more corporate than we thought in Otherville. Richard is the Office Manager of the Others, reporting to the Partners, Widmore and Hawking.
May 1st, 2009 at 10:15 am
@Doug in Illinois: Your idea about Hurley’s saying better communication is what counts very interesting, particularly the connection you draw with the whispers. If Hurley’s voice is the one reading off the numbers as many have speculated, at some point he puts that idea into action (and sets off the chain of events…NO, don’t go down that rabbit hole and get “Lost”!
Okay. Anyhow.) It makes me think about what would have happened if Miles had bought into Hurley’s idea and confessed to Chang that he was in fact his son.
May 1st, 2009 at 11:56 am
Great episode. One of the best. But I’m disappointed with the death of Faraday. I was counting on him to give more information on how the island/time travel works. He knew exactly when Dr Chang’s van would arrive at the Orchid. He knew the exact timetable for the Swan incident. This means he knew the “future”. During the 3 years that he spent with the D.I. he must have gathered lot’s of information about the island. And although death in Lost isn’t “permanent” I don’t expect to see much of faraday in future Episodes.
May 1st, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Hi guys,
The expectation for the 100th episode was that it would be something great but that was not the case. It was a great episode, I liked that we got to see the majority of the characters together albeit for a brief scene.
Some of the more obvious questions were answered and some new “variables” were introduced for good measure. I am sticking to the initial Danny theory that you cannot change the past, he believed that he could but what he did really failed to grasp is that him believing that he could change the course of things as a variable was exactly what was suppose to happen. The O6’s destiny was to be on the island when he would get killed and that is something his mother knew all too well.
It will be the O6 that will now take care of whatever it is that they need to take care of. What I find interesting is that we know that the island looks fine but that could not possibly be the case if a hydrogen bomb had exploded or the energy was released as that would be catastrophic. So what will happen? Well, I believe that the Others will make sure that everything gets under control as the DI seems oblivious. The Others will only do so because Jack and the other Losties will make sure and that is the destiny that Eloise was talking about.
Reading the above in the wee hours of the morning after a glass of a good bourbon makes my herd spin even faster but I hope I make some sense… …at least as much as one is expected when he is trying to explain Lost.
You guys are great as always, be good!
Ilias
May 1st, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Small correction, it should read:
The expectation for the 100th episode was that it would be something great, something special but that was not the case. It was a GOOD episode, I liked that we got to see the majority of the characters together albeit for a brief scene.
May 1st, 2009 at 3:23 pm
I love reading these boards and listening to the podcast!
My apologies to Zhami for misquoting his name in my earlier post (I said Zumi). Still worried about baby Charlie.
May 1st, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Oops again – Zhami = His or Her name!
May 1st, 2009 at 4:18 pm
@ Mirepoix
Ms. Hawking only acts to ensure a given path or destiny, not to alter the ultimate course of events. Talk about a paradox, voluntary actions being required for a fixed destiny to play out. From her first appearance with Desmond to her shepherding of the O6, Hawking has always worked toward keeping the variables in their proper channels in the service of a destiny she obviously already knows. Despite her parting of the ways with Widmore, I believe she share this basic conviction with him. “That island was once mine. It will be again,” he tells Ben with a profound belief in its inevitability. Ben, on the other hand, not only wants, but believes he can change the loop even as he suffers countless, repetitive beatings at the hands of fate. Which leader do we follow? Or is there a dark horse?
Add Dan to the piano afficiandos of Lost. First, of course was Charlie with the gift from his Mom that defined him as special. Remember Jack playing “Heart and Soul” and Ben played as well.
May 1st, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Faraday wouldn’t know Chang would show up at the Orchid per se or have a precise map of the future. But what he might have been able to measure and predict with his formulas was the large discharge of energy that occurred during drilling. From his knowledge of the Tempest and the secondary protocol, I believe Daniel might have received an extensive briefing on the history of Dharma while on the freighter. This is the only way he could know about the incident and the purge since the next time he leaves the island is 1977 and I don’t recall anyone explaining these events to him.
May 2nd, 2009 at 5:37 am
> Can’t place the “Marina Medical Center.”
Condo at 215 North King Street, across from Aala park. I live there. Filmed Friday night February 27, a very windy and cool week and it really showed in the face-slapping scene.
May 2nd, 2009 at 10:49 am
Haven’t posted here in a while.
Am starting to get intrigued by what’s in Hurley’s guitar case. I’m wondering if at some point everyone in 1977 gets transported back to 2007 and Ilana/Bram & Co get the drop on them or if something happens in 1997 where everyone gets cornered by DHARMA/the Hostiles.
Hurley’s guitar case then opens up to reveal a weapons cache ala Robert Rodriguez’s El Mariachi. Probably not. But considering all the pop culture references in LOST, I wouldn’t discount it or the writers having some fun with this.
May 2nd, 2009 at 11:01 am
I posted this somewhat jokingly earlier, but now the more I think about it, the more I’m willing to believe it. It may or may not be a cache of weapons; how about a bunch of working batteries for Sayid to use? Unrefuteable proof for Dr Chang so that he believes they’re from the future? A bunch of laterns for Jacob? Eyeliner for Richard Alpert?
May 2nd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
If Jack is able to avoid Flight 815 crashing, wouldn’t they still be off course? I seem to remember the Pilot saying that rescue would be a problem…they were a thousand miles off course. With that in mind, would the off course plane have enough gas to make it to a country to land OR would they crash into the ocean? Just wondering.
May 2nd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
I agree with many of the people who are concerned about the Comic Con video. If Faraday is dead, when was the video recorded. Could Jack eventually save Faraday? Juliet and Kate seemed to think that Jack could have saved Ben.
I was waiting for Faraday to tell Jack that he was going to send him “back to the future.”
May 2nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Can anyone explain the DI food drop the Losties got from an airplane (first seasons). Whose airplane did it belong to, and why was it still dropping food? Was the food for Desmond, the Others, or ??
Widmore didn’t know where the Island was, so I doubt he was responsible.
Do the DI people on the mainland know where the Island is in 2004?
I assume the sub is used for trasnportation to the Island so that it can travel there secretly, or maybe to slip thru a wormhole under the sea.
May 2nd, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Tawl, that was probably a delayed food drop that came into the island on the wrong bearing and got lost in time for a few decades..
May 2nd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
@Tawl
I’ve been asking this question forever and think the supply drop is one of the great remaining mysteries of Lost. The supply drops must have been continuing for some time on a regular basis even after the purge to keep Kelvin, Radzinsky, and later Desmond well stocked with Apollo bars and ranch dressing. For some reason, a lockdown inside the swan hatch accompanied these drops as we saw when Locke discovered the blast door map, perhaps to open a window to the island or prevent electromagnetic energy from bringing down the plane.
In addition, I believe we saw plenty of Dharma food products in Ben’s refrigerator.
But who was behind these drops? Did the others just appropriate all the off-island apparatus of the DI much like they did with the sub? As for Widmore and the DI, it would seem that if they knew where the island was, they would take more direct action than just provisioning a last outpost. But perhaps there’s a distinction between knowing the location of the island and knowing an entry point through which these supplies can reach the island.
Remember the McCutcheon’s whiskey that Desmond shared with Hurley and Charlie when they figured out he could see the future? That was part of the supply drop. Don’t count Widmore out.
May 2nd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
@soko,
What I meant by “How did Eloise know she was sending Daniel to his death if it hadn’t happened already ? If she knew then nothing would have changed.” was exactly that. Many posters have suggested that something changed as Daniel died in this 1977 and his death was the variable but if Daniel had always died in every 1977 then nothing changed so no alteration in the timeline so nothing will be different. If Whatever Hapened Happened holds true then Daniel always died so nothing changed and we only have one timeline. If he only died in this 1977 then something changed but Eloise would not know in this 2007 as Daniel would not have died before in the original 1977.
Does that make any sense at all ?
May 3rd, 2009 at 4:52 am
Actually that is not really what has happened
Eloise is living her lifetime without jumping back & forth
Her 1977 is before 2007
On the other hand
Daniel has lived 2004 before he returned to 1974 and 1977 on the island
How many times has he lived that loop ?
We dont know
but he has relived the Orchid encounter with Chang more than once once probably without Miles
How could he do that ? He did not tell
May 3rd, 2009 at 9:23 am
I’ll just say that this episode makes it clear that nobody suffering from any illness should ever, Ever take advice from Charles Widmore…who will clearly just send them off to get shot somewhere in the past. “The Island will heal you” – yea, I bet!
Great episode – can’t wait for the podcast!
May 3rd, 2009 at 9:27 am
I was listening to an old podcast by Carlton and Lindeloff. They were saying how they didn’t like the idea of Heroes: Hiro can go back in time, saying “save the chearleader”. They save the chearleader: then how come Hiro could come back in time to tell them if it’s not the same future?
And I agree with them (and I like the idea that Hiro can know just stop time and Peter just get the last power he meet and not all the powers he ever met! (how stupidly powerfull he was!))
So the only answer possible is: everything that was suppose to happen will happen! But the futur can be changed through the variables… That’s why we WILL have a tape made by Chang to the new Dharma telling them in which plane they need to go to go to the Island.
May 3rd, 2009 at 9:44 am
Hi Mark B -
I read your comment and I think you’ve got 80% of it…
The “whatever happened, happened” thing still holds true when we look at what happened with Daniel. I just re-watched the conversation between Miles and Hurley where it all gets hashed out, and it’s really like – Ben/The Others/The DI’ers are all experiencing their present in 1977, and the Losties’ present was in 2004/2007 until Ben turned the wheel and their time line was no longer linear and forward-moving, but wrapped around back to 1974/1977. So the 70’s were no longer in the past for them, but it was their present. Eloise in 1977 wouldn’t know that Daniel-from-the-future was her son, but in 2004 when she told him to take Widmore’s job offer, she knew that she had killed him when his present jumped from 2007 to 1977.
This is the craziest part about “whatever happened, happened” – because yes, Daniel was always there, and Daniel always dies, and Eloise in 2007 always remembers she is responsible. She sends him to the Island knowing that he has to die in order to bring about the events which have, by 2007, already occurred.
What I think is so unique about this crazy scenario is the incredible amount of power both the Losties and the 1970’s groups have due to the jumping around in time. The Losties timewarp back with the knowledge of who and what some of these people on the Island are – the Hostiles, the DI…knowing the broad strokes of what they’re doing and what they want. They even know some of the key players, like Ben and Richard, from their time on the Island in 2004. This means Sawyer is able to talk his way into creating himself a cozy little life in the DI, for example, and talk his way out of a confrontation with Richard on his first night. But then too — the characters who are moving linearly through time like Widmore and Eloise are able to look back on their experiences and see where their timelines have been marked by these crazy time-travelers who showed up and set certain important events into motion, and so they use that knowledge to ensure that the events always play out as they should. It gives them incredible manipulative power when they meet these Losties/freighties in 2004 who haven’t yet been in the past and don’t know what’s ahead.
It’s so cylindrical: Widmore and Eloise encounter grown-up Daniel in 1954 with knowledge of Jughead, baby Daniel is born some decades later, grown-up Daniel enters the Hostiles’ camp and is shot by Eloise (though we don’t know whether his birth or death comes first), Eloise raises Daniel on a short leash to ensure his gifts are put to proper use, Eloise pushes him to return to the Island, where she knows he will jump through time and eventually do all the things we’ve seen since his arrival in Season 4, before dying by her bullet. Because whatever happened, happened – he always returned to the Island, because he was there in 1977 when she shot him.
Wild stuff!
All this talk about variables is still a bit foreign to me – I’m trying to make sense of it, so I hope the podcast and blog will help
May 3rd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Loved the reference to A-Team above regarding the shoot-out. It was definitely cheese-ball. A little “Dukes of Hazard” maybe too.
RE : Comic-Con video and others:
What if Daniel has made use of the Orchid. We know that 2 people / bunnies can be at the same place at the same time. Perhaps the reason he knows when Chang will show up is that he has made some ‘copy’ of himself. I need to re-watch the show I think, but sometime during the events we see…Daniel sneaks into the Orchid and sends his body back in time…but a little different than “Back to the Future II”. Daniels goes through the motions of a day or two learning and writing in his notebook. Then he goes to the Orchid. He sends a copy of himself back a few days to after he first arrived. He then meets himself and tells himself his plan. ( I know this is paradoxical…very ). “Futre Dan” is the one we watched on Wed. He is sure of what he is doing ( more sure ) and knows when / where Chang will be at the Orchid. The first Dan is somewhere hidden, and waiting to reveal himself at the proper time. Perhaps this ‘paradox’ sets up “The Incident” ; but it could explain why Chang was able to make the video with the Original Dan. When the “Future Dan” is shot it creates “Jacob”?
On another note ( bad pun intended ) : Perhaps since Dan is a musician wanna-be he is the one who programmed the computer w/ Beach Boys in “The Looking Glass” Sation.
Looking foward to the Podcast. –
Brian ( Atlanta ) ~ NuckinFuts
May 3rd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
we see daniel playing a lot of panio,in this espoide does it have any thing to do with, the musical keypad charlie used to turn off the jammer in the looking glass.
May 3rd, 2009 at 12:43 pm
RE: My own post:
I would assume that the 1st time Dan arrived he and the D.I. drilled into the future Swan. This is why he knows the exact time. During that drilling and the chaos that starts to ensue, he and Chang perhaps together send a copy of Dan back in time. If this is true, then I wonder if Chang sends a few copies of himself out as well. Perhaps this is why he has so many different names. Each version of himself needs to be able to tell the difference?
I know Ryan and Jen hate the paradox stuff…but I think this is where we are headed.
May 3rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
NuckinFuts
Thats the most likely stream of events I have read so far
But still
it makes my head hurt …
May 3rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
@NuckinFuts
I disagree with your theory of paradox stuff, but I’m intrigued by your idea of Daniel as “The Looking Glass Station” programmer. The song choice “Good Vibrations” would be particularly apt given that so many of the theories behind multiple universes and time travel involve good vibration
.
May 3rd, 2009 at 1:03 pm
So now we know who staged the crashed flight 815. Miles heard it from the dead guy, he must have delivered the paperwork to Widmore. You would think he wouldn’t want a paper trail.
May 3rd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Hi everybody, Just wanted to tell everyone on this forum that it is the best one out there. I just found it this season. All of you guys are great on you discussions. I have one thought about yhe ending to this fantastic show. The screen went black and thousands of people thought there cable had went out. Sopranos finale. After my intial shock and rant and sadness that it really was over, and even worse no real conclusion, I realized that David Chase knew he could not make every fan happy. The ending was not tied up in a nice little package. It was left up to each individual to decide “Whatever Happened, Happened. Hey, once again ,you guys are great!
May 3rd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
@ Rich in cleveland:
In one of the “orientation videos” that the Losties have found in the Dharma stations on the island, Dr. Chang explains the fooddrops. I’m sorry I can’t remember exactly which video it is, nor what episode/season this is in. But the answer is there.
May 3rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
A bit surprising to see how critical many of you were of this particular episode. I actually enjoyed the pace of it, as well as the production value. Daniel is a great character, played by a great actor.
I have given up on trying to make sense of the time travel narrative. Once you dip into that well, it is sort of over. Really.
At best, you can write the paradoxes into the show and just go with it (like the Terminator movies) At worst, you will have narrative incoherence. This narrative device worked in Back to the Future, but that movie had a more humorous tone; Lost is a serious drama.
Although we were promised a more grounded and logical end game, I remain optimistic. It ain’t over yet, folks. I am going to take some advice that someone on this blog gave me and see what the writers have in store. There could still be some game changer that retroactively makes sense of this “nonsense.”
Now, on a positive note, we are getting so much information and reveals on the show now that it might be possible to start predicting the final mysteries. Don’t count out the whole “plane landing in Los Angeles” stuff. And also remember, the producers plan on having a final unresolved twist at the very end that will give the show an air of perpetual mystery. I am convinced of it.
It will be a sort of dangling question. 99 percent of the mysteries will be solved, but at the expense of one brand new super game-changer.
I am assuming Season Six is about the Hostiles/other-others. They are the true natives, and in season six, we will learn about the island as we learn about them: four-toed glory and all.
I am leaning towards thinking that these others are the natural stewards of this place, and are working somehow in cooperation with a Castaway (we don’t know yet, big reveal later, maybe Locke) in a complicated role playing game (ala the Fincher movie, The Game) towards the transformation of yet another Castaway (I am thinking Jack).
Don’t know why. Just thinking that if they are going down this time travel path (very slippery), then they will probably also go into the Game/Total Recall/Matrix area next, at which point they can explain away discrepencies as glitches in the system.
What if the island was a computer program like the one in the Hitchhikers Guide to the galaxy that runs programs through PEOPLE to find the meaning of life, or stop the destruction of the earth…
Then you could retroactively tie everything together. Food for thought.
May 3rd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
@Fernando
I went to Lostpedia and the only mention of the supply drops I could find was in the Flame video and that was very brief. You could call for a palate drop with a certain code which was by then inoperative. That still doesn’t explain why or how drops continued to arrive for years after the DI’s extinction.
@Nuckinfuts & Paintergirl
A thought occurred to me about the programmer that has no substantiation anywhere, but here goes. Could Charlie have been the programmer? This would fit with the developing trend that those who came to the island brought with them or somehow created the seeds of their own demise. Does Hurley begin the curse of the numbers by creating their initial broadcast? We just saw how Daniel’s own attempts to intervene brought about his death. Wouldn’t it be ironic if Charlie programmed the code that he could intuitivey unlock thus leading to his fate? Whatever 815 did wasn’t “supposed to happen” and so they all became the causes of their own suffering. (Thanks to Fernando for redirecting me to the video archives.)
@ Nuckinfuts
Would it make more sense for Daniel to have time travelled via his experiments at Oxford than something he did impromptu at the Orchid? This whole thing’s confusing enough without multiple manifestations of the self running around. Still, I can picture the big twist down the line in which a character first meets him/her self.
May 4th, 2009 at 9:18 am
From a strictly moral standpoint – Unless we are all like Ben, whose response to Jack’s query, “What about the other people on the plane?” answers, “Who cares?”
If at the end of Season 6 the Losties stop Oceanic 815 and consequently Aljira 613 from crashing, why isn’t it enough to save all the people who died? It may not make the best story ending, but lets not forget that there is something morally satisfying to know that all the lives were saved vs. a story that kills off most everyone but improves the lives of those saved.
Personally, I’m looking forward to learning about the Island’s history. What it is, its origins, its history, who are the original inhabitants, why does Dick not age, who is Jacob, etc., etc. How the story actually ends for our main characters has less importance for me.
I guess that puts me in the camp of the Lost Mythology lovers vs. Lost Character Development lovers. I can live with it.
May 4th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Wouldn’t it be a complete bummer if the storyline is that Jack and Kate blow up the hatch in 1977, we see Oceanic 815 land in LA, all of our “friends” from the past 5 seasons are complete strangers and just as it seems they are all splitting off and going on with their “usual” lives, some other calamity strikes and pulls them back together?!? What if the real story here is that life and/or the universe must be reset occasionally…most of us just never remember that we do it.
May 5th, 2009 at 3:17 am
I went back and watched to the Dharma video from last Comic Con where it sounds like Daniel is talking on it to Dr. Chang. After listening to it again, I really think it’s Miles voice on it instead. Daniel is dead.