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This edition of “The Transmission” tackes “Across the Sea,” the controversial fifteenth episode of Season 6. We share our thoughts, then we turn it over to our brilliant listeners in “You All Everybody.” We discuss our plans for our last few podcasts, then play the latest track from The Others LOST Band. Finally, in the “Forward Cabin,” we hear from a fan who has already seen the upcoming episode of “LOST.” At the end of the show, we include a sweet tribute sent to us by our fellow podcasters on the Lost Podcasting Network. Sniff!
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Segments:
- 0:00:19 Introduction
- 0:01:43 Recap: “LOST†in Eight Minutes
- 0:07:55 Reaction & Analysis
- 0:41:05 Feedback: You All Everybody
- 1:17:16 “Never Leave You” by The Others LOST Band
- 1:20:58 Spoilers: The Forward Cabin
- 1:25:05 Closing
To download this LostCast, click the “Pod” icon below, or cut-and-paste the following URL:
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/hawaii/lostcast20100516.mp3
Ryan and Jen, Just listened to the podcast…and the tribute from the Lost Podcast Network which I did not know existed until just now!…I just started listening to your podcast about a month ago, but want to thank you both for the greatest experience…in just a few weeks, I feel a kinship with you both, as well as Mattfromnd, knives, and all the impassioned contributors. REALLY looking forward to the remaining episodes and podcasts…I don’t want to call it the end because the conversation will really never end…because our imaginations, our curiosity, our desire for connection and sharing will never end…mahalo!
Eileen from New Jersey
Wow, listening to some of the voice messages, I wonder if those who really hated this episode felt the same the morning after or will feel the same when the series ends.
I think having caught up on the series via dvd, when you watch shows back to back, an episode like this isn’t as jarring as when you have to wait a week and have more time to react to it.
I think the writers are handling the ending better than Battlestar Galactica did. The download dump episode in BSG was totally expository whereas LOST actually showed its origins.
Still though, the writers did take a big yellow Caterpillar, loaded it mythology and ambiguity, and unloaded it abruptly into the LOST collective and some of our heads exploded like those little creatures in the Lemmings game.
Got to admit I was disapointed by the episode.
I think that I finally realised that the mythology is great but what I really care about are the characters that we have lived with for 6 years.
I frankly do not care about jacob or mib or mother!
What I do care about as last weeks episodes showed is the original losties and I hope the finale is centred on them rather than the mythology.
Oh, and Ryan and Jen, you should most definitely do a LOST as a series review. There’s so much to talk about.
Will there be another series like it again, how did this thing ever get approved, how did it get so popular, how will it age, will it be remembered 10 years from now or fade from memory, the future of serialized TV, etc…
I enjoyed the episode very much when it aired. I was completely puzzled when it ended. After reading most of the more than 600 comments, and listening to the postcast, I like it even more and understand it better. You guys are amazing. Mahalo for this site.
I’m on the same boat with those who think that Mother was the smoke monster. I like learning that MIB and Jacob were as human and as flawed as any of the other characters in the story. I agree with Jen and many others that the placement of the episode seems disruptive, but I’m willing to wait until the finale to look at the whole picture, and then decide about that.
@Ryan and Jen – I’ve listened to about half the podcast, I just wanted to comment about your comments about Jacob. You had a really interesting point, “mother” didn’t want people coming to the island putting what they protect in danger, yet Jacob chooses to do the exact opposite. He keeps bringing them to the island. Also Jacob is the one who first used violence rather than MIB. I didn’t think of that during the episdoe so thanks for pointing it out.
How long did it take to prepare the podcast? It must have been a lot of work sorting through everything and deciding what phone calls, posts and emails to use. I just started the YAE segment, I’ll finish it after lunch. Amazing how much this episode really divided everyone.
@Steve- Lost as a series in review one time podcast would be a lot of fun.
@James and Ryan – I think this episode did show us each what is important to us with this series. Like you James I want to know what happens to our Losties and I am not invested in Jacob and MIB as characters themselves, I am just interested in what their part will be in the future of our Losties. I hope that episode was just a way to satisfy the mythology people and the rest of the shows will concentrate on our original Losties and Ben, Richard and Myles. I know there are many people that love the whole Jacob/MIB storyline and the religious overtones but I am not one of them. If the characters were introduced much earlier in the series I would care about them more.
Is there something wrong with the download of this podcast? I get an error message every time I try, and if I click on it I get rerouted to a third party page. No problem with past podcasts, just this onel.
I downloaded the unenhanced version without a problem.
After listening to this podcast, I can’t help thinking: LOOPHOLE!
The whole thing about Kate and picking children as candidates has been percolating in my head, and then an idea floated to the surface. The fact that the Smoke Monster eliminated Kate from the candidates may have even more significance since we are playing by Jacob’s rules now. Jacob did not eliminate her, so if Smokey kills her, won’t Smokey lose? Smokey may slip up and be responsible for killing a candidate, then what?
Just another theory…
I don’t have the patience to wade through all the comments on the blog, so I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but I have a new thought about Jacob & MIB. A lot of speculation and assumption has been made about the cave being MIB’s and the Lighthouse being Jacob’s. However, after this episode, I think it might be the opposite. MIB seems to be a) smarter and b) interested in both harnessing the energy of the island and science/technology.
However, I don’t know how they’re going to explain this before the end of the series in a week.
*sob*
~Genevieve in CA.
Something I thought of when listening to the podcast. Flocke tells Ben that someone will need to stay behind and watch the island. Perhaps Flocke knows that the island needs protecing and everything he is saying about it not needing protecting is just more manipulation.
Yesssssssssss! Ryan and Jen hanging in past the end! Prayer answered.
having to listen via the feed – as the download brings up an error message
Ryan & Jen,
As always, FANTASTIC podcast. You did a great job summarizing various points of view regarding this polarizing episode without engaging in any negativity, which I appreciate. I like to see the dialogue open and “clean.” 🙂
The ending accolades to both of you were much deserved and had me bawling like a baby. I will miss this entire “Lost” experiene and will miss “The Transmission” as much as anything. I’m a true romantic at heart (which is one of the reasons The Constant is my all-time fav episode), and to hear the two of you talk about how the sharing of the “Lost” experience has strengthened your marriage brought about a whole new appreciation for all you’ve done for us……You All Everybody.
Thanks for agreeing to extend “The Transmission” to at least 100!!!
I’d like to think as Mother as another type of entity other than a smoke monster. I realize there’s a good argument to made that should could be another smokey, but hey, it’s possible she could also turn herself into a 60 foot giant fire monster too. I have my own version of her abilities and how they manifest and I’d like to think her powers are something more subtler than those of the smoke monsters.
Great podcast as always.
The forward cabin really has me intrigued but I am with Jen. i don’t know if I want it to be funny…. Yikes. Tuesday. Can’t wait.
Until then some info for youalleverybody
I don’t know if anyone has posted this yet but here is the Latin that mother spoke to Jacob at the river: “Nam non accipimus hoc quasi vulgarem potionem, sed ut ille sit quasi unus mecum.†I found a blog post online of someone who had the transcript. He translated it this way:
“Because we don’t accept this as a simple potion, but so that he shall be as one with me.â€
Thanks, Ryan and Jen, for a great podcast. Honestly, I don’t know where you find the energy, but you’ve definitely got it. Bringing this diversity of opinions together and sorting through it all – amazing!
It’s as if we all went back in time to pre-literate days and are listening, waiting, for the bard or the troupe of players to come into our town and tell us an amazing story that will have us chattering for years – and that’s what fiction is for, isn’t it?
Thanks for making a community of us – (live together, die alone).
@ Corivee, thanks for the latin translation, I’ve been waiting for someone to post it!
@R&J: I listened while driving to the airport to pick up my husband and it occurred to me when Ryan mentioned Widmore and “The List”. Since we are gleaming this whole business has potentially been a game Jacob is playing – I wonder if Widmore wasn’t a Grand Manipulator in the tradition of Ben. Could he have also figured out that Jacob’s game has a variation of CLUE in it?
Widmore was very eager to a buy the Black Rock’s Manifest at Auction and no doubt had other leads he was deciphering. Maybe the manifest was one of multiple artifacts he acquired to gleam the names of the candidates? Possibly MiB figured out a way to communicate to Widmore (at least while he was the leader) in code, important Clues about Jacob’s game. Jacob being the Engineer of the game (setting rules, goals, etc) tried to offer as much as he could to test the players. This would be by playing them off each other (obviously a favorite method!) Or setting obstacles to each players objective while keeping in mind each players limitations. (Think Chess: all the pieces/players have prescibed ways they can/do move, not only in attack but in defence).
While the Golden Light may be nothing more than some Naturel Law of Physics yet to be explained – it really doesn’t need to be in order for me to enjoy the way it sets The Game in motion. I don’t really need to know why or how even a Game I watch was invented/originated to enjoy watching it be played.
Hey guys, I’ve been listening to the Transmission since season two and I haven’t missed an episode. You’ve even read out some of my comments, which made me very happy.
Since you asked for ideas about what to do after the finale has come and gone, I’m going to suggest the same thing I did when you asked the same thing about the last hiatus before you settled on the season 3 rewatch. Commentaries!
I think if you guys went back and recorded an audio commentary for the pilot of Lost it would be really fun to listen to, and you could see if you’d want to continue it with other episodes. Fan commentaries can be great; the guys at The Leaky Cauldron have done one for each Harry Potter movie and they’ve been really well received. And it’d give all of us an excuse to dig out our well-worn dog-eared DVD cases for another rewatch of our favourite show. You’d also have the benefit of having seen the complete series, which JJ, Damon and co. did not when they recorded their track. Maybe you could even post a request for calls and comments on the episode to include, and who knows, maybe Jorge and the other fan-friendly Lost alum might be up for stopping by for an episode here and there. Anyway, that’s just my idea.
It’ll be so sad to see The Transmission stop broadcasting forever more. I don’t want it to end!
Listening to the Transmission tribute at the end of the podcast; it’s beautiful! You guys SO deserve it!
In terms of what you could do after the finale, I thought that maybe you could devote a few podcasts to separate areas of Lost (if you wanted– obviously it would take some work!) An episode on the characters of Lost, on the themes, on mysteries… stuff like that. Or do it all in one podcast. Whatever you do, it will be awesome to be able to look at the story as a cohesive whole, and I will really miss the Transmission when it’s time to put it to bed.
Thoughts on Latin use:
I think they could only use that much Latin, because Allison Janney, the children and the rest of the actors could only be expected to learn so much latin for 1 episode of network TV.
Comparing that with Ab aerterno, Nestor Carbonel is from Cuba, and he explained that his native Cuban accent was alot like the one used in the Canary Islands, so they went with it.
It spoke more to the reality of network TV, rather than using it as a plot device.
Also, I love the podcast, and will miss it as much as the show.
Fantastic episode – and I’m quite shocked you managed to actually do it with so much visceral reaction to get through! Absolutely my favourite lost podcast there has ever been. Say what you like about the episode, but it has made for a fascinating week in the lost community.
As for the latin thing – I’d wager that it was a network decision. This close to the end the network is trying to pick up viewers for the finale, and would probably have vetoed an all latin episode. Nature of the beast I reckon.
Ditto the adam and eve flash to season one. All us obsessed fans didn’t need it, but for the casual viewer that ABC is trying to pick up, it was absolutely needed.
Still hated the episode after a rewatch and listening to several podcasts.
I will be watching the final episodes. I’ve devoted 6 years to this damn show and i want to see how it ends. But I’m not holding out a lot of hope on being satisfied with the ending.
With flashforward getting canceled and lost likely dissapointing me, I don’t think I’ll be cheching out any new shows with big mysteries anytime soon.
@ Mattfromnd – sorry you feel that way. Have you tried Fringe?
@ Seth – I second your suggestion!
@ YAE – I will miss this board more than the show, I think. You make watching TV fun again
@Mattfromnd – There is plenty of good TV despite the ending of LOST. You’ve got Treme, The Pacific, Dexter, Fringe, Stargate Universe, True Blood.
Speaking of Treme, if you haven’t seen The Wire, it is the best serial show… ever. As much as I love LOST, The Wire is far, far superior to LOST, although it’s not fair to compare the two shows as they are completely different genres, but the writing, acting, everything, is orders of magnitude better than LOST. If you’re sick of time travel, The Wire has 1, that’s it one flashback.
@steve – the wire was fantastic, I watched one or two episodes but never had HBO, then got into it via syndication, and couldnt get enough of it.
BUt you’re right, it’s not fair to compare the two, it’s like asking which film is better, the M. Night’s Sixth Sense or Brian DePalma’s Wise Guys.
As a late comer to the transmission, I have to say it was a godsend this season. Speculating on my own about purgatory in Season one, and then sitting back and enjoying the ride, around season 5 I began to go crazy with questions. YAE and Ryan and Jen filled a desperate hole in my inner peace!
Rewatching is a great tool, something that was echoed by YAE. I never listened much to the official podcast, at first glance I thought Darlton were a little too snarky, but they’ve grown on me and I’ve listened to about 10 of their podcasts, the last one was hilarious. They got a great question about drawstrings – Damon really is funny.
They talked about the tortoise that was mentioned among the 600 posts in the previous blog, the tortoise just showed up ready for work, it was not coaxed or scheduled, and to disturb it in anyway would have been unlawful, but they chose to include it in the episode as another shout out to Steven King. He uses them as symbols often for light and good.
They commented as I was thinking about, maybe the natural world was lining up in support of the show….a tortoise after all lives for a very long time!
Rewatching after reading a few hundred posts (it only took me 5 days to get through the always growing list) –
Another clue about NotMom’s identity came as she approached MIB in the well. First she is above ground at a distance and many people are milling about. To get past them undetected she would most likely become smoke. Then we got a POV shot, in true smokey-vision style, zooming towards MIB and then into the fire he was working on, they love the smoke symbolism on the show. Rewatching past seasons, smokey fires are all over the place when the smoke monster is around.
Another interesting clue was NotMom (I do wish we could call her CJ, and for anyone who didnt really watch the show, find the scenes with her and Big Bird and the episode when she has her wisdom teeth removed, it was fantastic TV – hilarious) standing in a pool of light at the bottom of the well. Mirrors the pool of light Claudia was standing in when she appeared to boy in black.
Claudia also caused the tall grass to move as she walked through it, proof it seems that she was the smoke monster taking human form, as we’ve learned from Ab Aeterno that the real ghosts can’t interact with the physical world – with the two manifestations of Richard’s wife.
I tried to remind myself that one of the characters (Smokey) from tonight’s episode has been around since the pilot – to deal with the absence of Kate Sawyer Jack and Hurley – no to mention Ben Miles and Richard.
The nature of the smoke monster question is a good one – simple on the outside, but then I begin to get ambivalent. It’s safe to say there was a smoke monster before MIB emerged from the source in freight train fashion, because of the well and the village massacre. NotMom references her own mother who is dead, a pretty strong clue I think that a smoke monster was involved somehow in her youth when she was mortal.
When MIB killed NotMom, what happened to smokey? Was there a time that the smoke monster did not exist? I’m thinking – because the human form he had taken was nuetralized he was returned to the source (Energy has to go somewhere) trapped there until another human enters the source, or maybe drains the water like Ben did under the barracks in Dharmaville. So if people are digging creating potential escape tunnels for smokey, then they need to be eradicated (from the latin meaning to tear up from the roots, ironically).
So if any humans are left on the island, then there is a risk that smokey can be released by digging or entering the source.
I just realized that we are all wrong about the cave being MIB and lighthouse being Jacobs. It is the other way around. The MIB would not have needed the ladder to get to the caves, Jacob would. And the lighthouse was not locked, the door was jammed from long years of not being used. MIB would not enter and use the stairs, he’d just fly up.
So Widmore is using Jacob’s list of candidates.
I also think that Jacob and MIB and still friends. They are working together in this game to get themselves killed and replaced. They’ve grown tired of the island and want to die. When MIB black says “it always ends the same”, he means that they are still alive at the end of each game, and when he says “do you know how much I want to kill you” he is saying it as a friend that wants to give his brother release from hell/immortality. To find a loophole to set his brother free.
I also think the knife only works to kill a smokey if it has been recently magnetized. Hours before killing mom, his knife was stuck to the well and magnetized. 2000 years later when Sajid tries to use it again, it has returned to normal.
I can’t stop, thinking about this…..how can I get back to work!
If a person is a candidate drinks the special water with intent (choice), then they become immortal. So here you are on an island with a source that you know you’re not supposed to enter, but after a few hundred years, maybe curiosity gets the best of you and you go in to check it out. Voila – you were a protector of the source, and now you are both protector and smoke monster.
Jacob isn’t curious as to what would happen, he saw it when his brother freight trained out of there. So now we have a smoke monster and a protector.
If you are submerged in the temple waters, you’re close to the source, but not in it so you’re not split from your physical self, but reborn?
If you enter the light but are not effected but can withstand the elctromagnetic energy – then what?
@Michael: Genuis about the ownership of the caves. I love that explanation! Same goes for the theory of Jacob’s comment “Do you know how badly I want to kill you.” I love the angle you suggest that he wants to kill MIB to set him free. Well done.
Just listening to your “Across The Sea” podcast. There’s a glitch in the theory that “Mother” was a smoke monster. We know that smoke monster doesn’t inhabit or posess the actual bodies of dead people, but takes on the appearence of dead people. Mother wasn’t dead until after MIB knifed her. She may have had some type of supernatural power that enabled her to kill the whole village and fill in the well, but I don’t think she was a smoke monster. I think what we witnessed was the origin of smoke monster when MIB went into the light cave. (Not sure how “Mother” knew what would happen to someone who went into the light cave).
In other news/theories…I’ve been pretty sure for some time now tha the flash sideways is actually the reality the takes place once things are done on the island. Whatever happens in the last battle, the island is done for (as we see it underwater in the LA X episode). This probably means NO ONE replaces Jacob since there’s no island to protect…and MIB gets to go home. But then again…ya just never know with LOST. 🙂
WOAH you guys were TOTALLY hating on this episode!! It seems super unfair and sucky that any media put out these days can and is sooooo critiqued! I mean, come on!! All of the frustrations with this episode can be traced back to our own expectations….we have been asking for this backstory ever since we knew of Jacob and MIB, and then its totally pulled apart once we get it.
I definitely think its unfair and rude to spend so much energy hating on something you/we are CHOOSING to watch.
I don’t think you have to like everything, but dang…I’ve only listened to the first 20 mins of the podcast, and the entire 20 mins is negative. I’m so glad this wasn’t how you guys handled every episode this season, otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to listen.
You guys were saying you didn’t like how the man in black was shaded as good in this story and before you wanted to not like him. What happened was Jacobs brother died and so the smoke monster took over his body. Jacob’s brother was inherently good, and then just like locke, the monster was able to take his body. The smoke monster has always been bad.
I went back and watched the Season 5 opening scenes, and the image they looked at of what was behind the wall they were drilling into looked like a donkey wheel laying up against a wall, JUST LIKE the one in the cave where MIB was working.
It’s not science vs. faith. One without the other will not defeat MIB. Science AND faith together will be key in getting the Losties back to the sideways timeline before it ends. Jack (faith) and Desmond/Widmore (science) will defeat Jacob/MIB’s selfish and manipulative motives. Sink that DAMN island along with Jacob and MIB! NOW!
It’s only a game and you’re only a pawn if you choose to play and participate.
There has to be a choice made by a “pawn”. Heck, have all the “pieces” rebel and refuse. Combine their faith and power and end this destructive conflict and restore order to the galaxy.
@Lost in LA: Maybe you should listen to the entire podcast before judging? We had a lot of problems with the execution of the episode, but found a lot worth talking about in terms of the concepts introduced. I will say, however, that it’s ridiculous to think we can’t look at “LOST” critically. We love the show, but that doesn’t mean it can’t confuse, challenge, or upset us. What fun would it be to slavishly praise every moment on screen? Obviously, “LOST” is different things for different people. Our listeners deserve our honest and personal take. They certainly don’t have to agree.
@Ben MC: I looked at the screencap also and I believe that the image is probably an ultrasound scan in a horizontal plane. The image would then be shown from the perspective of looking down the well toward the donkey wheel. So I think the donkey wheel had been installed by the time the scan was taken.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1455-21.html
Just looked up the meaning of the name Claudia and it means “lame” or “disabled.” Could that have been on purpose? Just a cool tidbit, I thought.
Rose said as much about Bernard and herself in their last appearance on the island. “Stop playing the game… we did.”
@michael at 4:15 – I like your theory, at first I agreed, but now I think I’m reverting back to the simplest explanation is often the best one.
If MIB has had people like Claire stay with him over the years he might have brought them back to the cave and would need a ladder for them to use. Didn’t Sawyer’s weight break a wrung, as if the ladder was in disrepair?
Maybe Jacob hasn’t used the light house in a number of years, maybe that’s why the door was stuck, or maybe the writers wanted to make the fake stone appear more realistic.
@Dave @ DeAndrea – maybe NotMom was actually dead, and was caught in her human form, because MIB didnt allow her to speak before he stabbed her with the special dagger. So maybe she was neutralized, and sent back to the source upon expiration.
That’s lost in a nutshell – good theories seemingly plausible – yet mutually exclusive
@ScottB
If you need more. Jacob hates technology and lives extremely simply. MIB has embraced technology and new learning.
Which would own a lighthouse that peers into the mainland and perhaps the past and which would live in a cave, write on a wall, and build a simplistic not so sturdy staircase….?
@Scott B in DC – thanks for clarification about the tortoise – Alison Janney does a kind of double take when she approaches the beach to talk to the boy in black, right after the scene with the tortoise, so I wondered if Fake Mom was reacting to something the tortoise might portend. But sometimes a tortoise is just a tortoise.
As for the negativity referenced over and over, about the episode, about the podcast, isn’t it a sign of how much this means to everyone? Otherwise, just yawn, pull the covers over your head, or stick your head in the sand. I agree there were problems with the episode (the abrupt switch from Latiin to English, etc.) But I just didn’t have a big problem with the child actors (what a hard job they had!), and they were well-cast in terms of looking like their older counterparts. One thing I really liked was the rapturous look on the face of the boy in black as he gazed at the golden cave. Okay, it’s a little schmaltzy, but he just looked like a kid who had found something magical and was astounded.
And I certainly didn’t have a problem with the podcast! I really look forward to listening and thinking more about something I already think WAY too much about.
Ryan and Jen,
For me, the LOST experience would not have been the same without your podcast. Thank you for your labor of love over the last six years. Your podcast was the “Killer App” that got me into listening to podcasts.
Thank You,
Brian from San Jose
@ Michael : the one thing that may sway me to think that the Cave was Jacob’s and the lighthouse MIB’s is what we learnt from “Acroos the Sea”, namely that MIB was in fact not against technology, he seemed to embace it (donkey wheel, etc). Whereas Jacob, less so, more a man of the earth, as seen by his tapestry and fishing method.
Thank you, Ryan and Jen, for a great – and very balanced – podcast about such a divisive episode. I don’t know how you guys went through all those comments and calls and picked such a fair sample of both pro and con viewpoints, but you did and it was very enjoyable to listen to.
As excited as I am for tomorrow night’s episode and the finale, I feel a little like my heart is already breaking. Anyone else with me on this? 🙁
@Michael and coolpeace – the lighthouse and cave debate, like the MIB good or evil debate is a tough one, that’s why the shows interesting. I’ve always thought that Jacob and his followers avoided technology mostly because they were avoiding electrical devices, since smokey is electrical in nature. I was thinking he may be able to travel via electrical current as well.
The other weird thing about the nature of smokey, I’ve always thought he could divide himself into parts, three pillars of smoke I think killed Eco’s associates. I’ve wondered if he can be smoke and a manifestation, he was able to make the elephant type roar outside the Black Rock while he was still visible in the form of Isabella – I wondered if that was a clue.
NotMom says to boy in black, “of course I knew you would play the game (paraphrasing) that’s why I left it for you, but when the BIB discovered the game it had obviously washed ashore, as it was half buried in sand. So I think rather than planting it, NotMom knew it had come to the island somehow and chose to leave it alone. In the same way Unlocke had a look on his face when he said, they’re not all dead after the sub debacle, I wonder if Smokey has some kind of omniscience? Richard yells into the air, and Smokey knows he is being called. There have been lots of instances like that through the seasons I’ve noticed.