temporary punishment[1] in which the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for Heaven

That is not where our Losties were….

Also, I wrote this on a friend’s FB page, but:

Christian Shepard, not Kate, is Jack’s constant. While Jack may have seen his initial flashes with Kate and John, it took Christian for Jack to “let go.” Likewise, Penny is Desmond constant.

The act of shared motherly love is what woke up both Kate and Claire. This is why Kate went back to the island. Not for Jack or Sawyer or whatever, but for Claire…the birth mother of the child she had raised. So…the act of birth was needed to wake those two up. Kate finally won me over—killing MIB and then having her constant be bonded via *motherly* love rather than romantic love is really fantastic.

Has anyone checked out the Babylonian Legends of Creation? There’s some interesting passages that seem to line up with some of the island mythology. In Babylonian mythology, Tiamat is the primordial goddess of the salt water ocean. At some point, she spawned a brood of “devils” who consisted of personifications of mist, fog, cloud, storm and whirlwinds.

Just thought this would be interesting.

@Russell in Raleigh: I missed your post in the finale thread about the possibility of interpreting the “afterlife” from a scientific standpoint. I definitely agree, and I think you expressed this perspective much better than I did with my “parallel world” post.

@Ed in Elwood City: I was very moved by your reaction to the finale and how it touched you personally. I think that many of us who loved the finale were moved on a very personal level, and I think that is a great testament to the writers. I wish you the best, and please know you are in my prayers.

@docjkm: Sign me up for that re-watch!

I guess that was what disturbed me the most about the finale. The lack of resolution to our beloved characters in THIS life. I mean like I said at the time, to have them “happily ever after” in the “after”, would be what I would invision. But what happened to them in THIS life after the Island.

I think along with the “Hurley Years” on the Island that is supposed to be on the DVD, finding out what happened in the lives of our other Losties would be awesome. As always, just my 2 cents worth.

With this finale ending, there can be no FUTURE story (unless it is in the ‘afterlife’). Yet, conceivbably there could be filler ‘until they died’ stories.

@Ryan- Where could we post our thought about the season six before the next podcast? Will you open a new topic?

sorry for the off-topic mention, gang.

did we all survive last night? how many watched Lost reruns? i watched the expanded versions of ‘The End’. it does seem to make a bit more sense.

And I love the paradox: on the Island he became the man of faith , but in the sideways he was the man of science. I

Doc Jensen at Entertainment Weekly had an interesting theory regarding the threat Smokey posed to the world and how it related to him becoming mortal. It’s on page six of the first part of his analysis of the finale, here: http://bit.ly/dx7vQq. It seems a probable, if somewhat complex, idea that ties everything relating to the Light and the cork and what Jack and Desmond did, together.

Like Ben and Ana-Lucia, I’m just not ready to move on yet, so I’m anticipating a re-watch of the entire series to commence soon and carry me into August when the Season 6 collection comes out. I’m eager to see how I will experience certain moments and characters now that I know how the story ends. My opinion of Jack was radically changed by the finale, for example – I now have a much more sympathetic appreciation of him.

Regarding one thing discussed on the podcast: Finding out that the “Sideways” timeline was the “afterlife” hasn’t lessened the impact of the deaths of beloved characters at all for me – in fact, their deaths actually effect me more deeply now. With all of the time traveling forwards, sideways, and back that has gone on in this series, I suppose I always held some glimmer of hope that the past would be altered, that Charlie – for instance – wouldn’t have to drown in the Looking Glass, that John Locke would – quite literally – rise again. Now I know that “dead is dead” indeed, and there was nothing that could have brought Charlie or Locke or Jin and Sun back. They died when we watched them die, and although their reunion in the church was beautiful and we saw that they had found peace, for me it still doesn’t make the fact of their untimely deaths any less painful or disappointing. Whatever lies beyond those doors Christian opened may be wonderful beyond words – but I think we’d all prefer to think of characters like Locke and Charlie and Sun and Jin as being alive and well in this world, messed up as it is.

I think I would only have felt that the meaning of their deaths was lessened had the Sideways reality really been an “alternative” timeline where everyone ended up alive and well, as if all of their island struggles had never happened at all.

@Ed from Pa – your letter was beautiful.

The way I interpret the island under water is that the island represents life and death. That is, in the sideways world (or afterlife), the island is underwater, signifying the light (or life) is no longer. In the “real” world, the island is alive, and above water. It is the separation between life and death. So what would happen if the island were under water in the “real” world? It would literally mean the end of life.

Now imagine MIB gets off the island with the island intact. You would have a force let loose on the world that couldn’t be destroyed! On the other hand, if he destroys the island, it could mean the end of all life. In either case, it is a bad idea to let him off the island, and everything ends badly.

I hope this makes sense (at least in light of Lost!)

And thank you for including Ed from PA in your podcast. I think there are a lot of folks out there listening, not saying, that disabling conditions and life-altering moments are their daily experience, and that L O S T and your podcast have been lamp post stations for them. Thanks so very much!

I know “Lost” is finished but in my mind I think maybe they could move on to a place where they could live together happy ever after. Gosh, I’m going to miss these characters a lot.

Good thoughts.

@ Rich in Cleveland : Rich could you explain what you refer to by saying “But to entirely shun big picture explanation in the finale …” Are you talking about the Island side or the FS or maybe how they combined both in the church scene?

I’ve always enjoyed reading your thoughts, and still do – that is why I am asking. What would you have like to see in the finale?

I think the key to understanding Lost is realizing that Hurley was always meant to be the guardian. The Hurley Bird, the numbers, Hurley visited by the dead, Hurley finding the cabin: it all points to the fact that he was always the One. So why Hurley? I think it’s because Hurley represented the Buddha consciousness, which is guards “the light within all of us.”
The person, or people who guard the island represent the cultural epoch: the deity or deities we have chosen to guard “the light within all of us.”
MiB and Jacob guarded the island through the period of western expansionism, which from a comparative religions stand point could be considered a period dualism. The duality of good vs evil, right vs wrong, god vs devil, science vs faith etc.
Before that epoch was the Maternalistic pagan cultures that worshipped the Mother in the form of creator and fierce destroyer, so before the twins it was the crazy mother who guarded the island.
So we have the pagan Earth Mother guarding the “the light within all of us,” then the dualistic Gods of good vs evil (like the Abrahamic religions) , and now the universalist monad: which we is most represented by the buddhist religion.

From the Buddhist perspective nether MiB or Jacob were good or evil. They perpetuate each other, which is the source of suffering. Suffering comes from our misconception that the world is made of opposing forces, and if we side with either force we perpetuate suffering, but when we are able to balance those forces we attain enlightenment. So Jack and Locke (Jacob and Smokey) embodied the duality until they cancelled each other out leaving only truth.

Doubting that Hurley is a Buddha? Think about his attitude. When everything was going bad, and every one was consumed with getting off or staying on the island, he started the golf game so they could enjoy being there. When he tasked with guarding the food, he threw a party. His actions embodied the idea that the compassion and present moment is all that truly matters, and that is Buddha.

Also the Island itself was positioning itself for the Buddhist epoch. The Dharma initiative built their hatches, like the stations of the Tibetan Vajrayana mandala. Dharma itself means “the Law” or “the rules.”
The numbers needed to be entered every 108 minutes which the number of lotus petals around the mandala, and the number of prayer beads on the Buddhist mala.
If you study the Tibetan mandalas, the parallels to Lost are striking. The outer ring is the fire that burns of ignorance (like the crash) then there are different stations at the different directions like the Swan, the arrow etc.
Think of the map on the blast door. It looks like a mandala.
There is even a Temple at the center.

Alpert showing Locke the items he once owned, just like how the Dalai Llama is chosen. He was shown items key to Tibetan symbolism: the compass, sand (sand painting), the book of laws (dharma) and the knife. Locke chose the knife which symbolizes the destroyer. No wonder Alpert ran out. In the mandala the fierce destroyer that destroys the ego: the necessary death for spiritual rebirth.
The science/faith duality and the Jacob/MIB duality represents the duality that turns the wheel of Samsara (the suffering in the world) which is depicted as a wheel that looks just like the donkey wheel.

So then in the alternaverse we see the island at the bottom of the ocean. When a mandala is finished the Tibetan monks pour it into a river or other body of water. And while people have been calling the Alternaverse purgatory, I think it is much more like the Buddhist idea of Bardo. Bardo is a hallucinatory dimension we create upon death to face the karma of our life and direct us to how/where we will be reborn. In Bardo we find our guides, and teachers, and face what we learned or did not learn. So that is why Anna Lucia wasn’t ‘ready’ or why Ben wanted to hang around. They still had Karma to work on.

My parting thought is that they originally wanted to call this show the “Circle” which in sanskrit is “mandala.”

Namaste

Frankly, this is why I watched and got hooked on the show. So I’m cool with this focus. Yet, as a poster on the last thread (?) articulated, even the character-stuff was underwritten or occasionally fell a little flat.

I still prefer to embrace the positives, since I loved the JOURNEY so much. Also finding “The Trasmission” and YAE was a HUGE BONUS and an integral part of the experience. The finale beautifully depicted Jack’s awakening of being FOUND (whether it be through the peace of ultimately rescuing others, or connecting with his ‘constant’ Kate).

Is this just a case of reserving the answers for the encyclopedia they intend to put out? That would be a shame if they sacrificed the integrity of their storytelling just to sell some merchandise which we probably would have bought anyway (the little orphan annie decoder ring syndrome.) And it’s cheating in art if you have to issue an appendix to explain unfinished parts of your work.

On the other hand, ambiguity is far better than the midi-chlorian route.

Ryan and Jen – Thanks again for the enormous amount of work you do in keeping up on the blog, the emails and the podcasts. Clearly it is a labor of love, but it is greatly appreciated. Like Jorge Garcia, The Transmission was my “first” podcast. I listen to a few others (some I try to listen to and just can’t make it through the rambling . . . ), but you really do take the best of YAE and distill it into what the rest of us are thinking.

Spoilers – I actually went back and listened to the forward cabins on the episodes as they were about to be aired this season. I resisted looking at the call sheet for the final episode for about 24 hours and then gave in. I have to say that even knowing what the scenes were going to be – I still didn’t really know how it was going to play out. In other words, the spoilers in the forward cabin, didn’t spoil it for me!

Thanks again.

Lyle

After rewatching “The End” two more times this past week. And then watching it again today with the “Enhanced Popups” along with the “Final Journey” pre-show, I can now say that I am at peace with how it ended.

Oh I still would have liked to have seen the resolution of more of the story lines that were created by Darlton to keep us coming back for more, but I can honestly say that LOST was still the best television I have ever seen.

My only regret is that I didn’t run on to “The Transmission” and all the friends I have met on this board earlier. Hopefully though the friendships made will continue on through rewatches, and further sharing of our love for LOST.

Namaste everyone! I’m still LOST and yes, proud of it!!

Jorge seems like a classy guy, take the time for fans with his podcast and takes the time to call in to Jen and Ryan and say goodbye. Jen and Ryan maybe you helped him figure out plot points.

Mahalo/Obrigado

I was just visiting DarkUFO to get some news, in their Media Mentions section and saw the very sad news that Jorge beloved little Nunu had died.

My heart hurts once again, this time for Jorge and Beth. You could always hear here in the background during their podcast … RIP Nunu.

Jorge wrote :

“It breaks my heart to tell you that yesterday as we were preparing to all go to the airport Nunu was struck by a car as she crossed the street. She died in my arms.

We are burying her in the Pet Garden at Valley of the Temple in Kaneohe. Nunu hated the water so we couldn’t bring ourselves to having her ashes scattered in the ocean. Three months from now you’ll be able to find a bronze plaque inscribed with just her name there. If you’d like to leave a flower or a toy, I’m sure she’d love it.”

@Ryan – PLEASE take what “Adam in Grapevine” said and give it some serious thought. I think a book authored by you and Jen would make for a number 1 best seller. And to combine your knowledge of the show and it’s locations with that of the Kualoa Ranch tour guides………. It would be absolutely great!

And thanks again Ryan & Jen for that great tour and weekend back in January! Just an Awesome AWESOME experience!!

Lyle

Ryan i guess you must be aware about the new Hawaii Five-0 show that will be filming. I enjoyed the original and was a little weary about a remake but then I saw a youtube preview and thought … hmmmm, I may like after all. I liked the humour and the chemistry of the cast.

If anyone is interested, here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruKODTVxy3E

I love all the truths that LOST has taught me or reinforced over the years: to look past first impressions, to better weigh up good and evil, to reach for my best self, to fully acknowledge and rejoice in meaningful relationships…

Like the LOSTIES life-altering connection, we LOST fans in a smaller way have shared something meaningful in our gathering here ~ I think we will always look back on this time spent on “The Transmission” as special in our lives.

@Ryan the pic at the park does, indeed, look like a beautiful day enjoy

I would imagine Ryan could totally geek out on a project like that. I foresee an annotated index alphabetical by location and also indexed by episode. I’d love to see anecdotes about the locations or what was going on at the time of filming.

You guys really should cash-in on the Lost bandwagon somehow. Definitely start your own line of Lost tours around the island. There’s got to be money to be had, and I wouldn’t want to see the island without Ryan and Jen.

i have to say, it can be an amazing experience to walk into a theatre with Zero knowledge of what you’re about to see (happened to me with Kafka, The Celebration & Amores Perros and hmm… they are all in my movie top 10).

i’m not sure why i’m sharing these thoughts, except that i was sitting here and pondering how “spoilers” might have affected Ryan & my’s differing reaction to the finale.

Carol from Boston: I’ve always been a spoiler fan, even when it comes to movies (“Sixth Sense,” “The Usual Suspects,” all looked up online before I saw them.) Even so, filming reports don’t often ruin things because I don’t know anything about the context of the scenes described. I suppose the Jack/Locke showdown was pretty well described… but seeing it fully assembled on screen is still completely different and satisfying experience.

sawyer840: Was that Richard’s first flight? When he was recruiting for Mittelos Bioscience, he probably used airplanes to move about? I see your point about the Jack focus versus the ensemble, though.

Aaron: I hadn’t thought about Desmond’s disappearance. I figured that as soon as Ben and Hurley talked about getting him home, it was or would eventually be done. Narratively he was taken care of, if not physically.

Coolpeace: Glad you liked the song and video. It made my smile, and still a little misty eyed. I’m trying to figure out what Giacchino piece they sampled and looped. It’s stuck in my head!

Annietoo: Thanks for thinking that through. I still feel bad for Mr. Smokie.

I’m glad we all found each other in this life. And yes, we’ll see each other in the next… even if it’s just another TV show!

As always, excellent Podcast! I’ll bet that call from Jorge just made your day. I thought it was SO great that you included it.

Looking forward to your next review Podcast. They are always just super.

Lyle

@Darryl your phone comment comparing the two ‘pulling the plug’ moments was a huge Click moment for me. of course, it makes sense. i’m still in sci-fi mode, as far as Lost goes, and thats helping most of the missing ideas be palatable. at least for me. so many of the questions seem to come from standard science-fiction story telling, and if i look at the whole thing in that light, then its easier to accept what seem to be holes in the story.

one answer that i really could have used is what happened to Desmond. really, just a line or two would have done it.
Ben (looking around); ” where did Desmond go?”
Hurley; “he moved on, dude”
or something alone those lines.

@Ryan did it ruin the moment for you knowing what would happen?

Great podcast! Remember. Let go. Move on. L O S T

Here it is, more than a week later, and I’m still trying to digest the 1,257 comments from the smartest fans of any show in the history of television. I haven’t had a chance to listen to the latest podcast yet that came through this morning (I’m studying for two tests, so that’s going to have to wait a day or two), but I sure do hope that it’s not **really** the end. I’m starting to think of the next three months, not as “summer”, but as “rewatch season”.

Anyway, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for all you do. I’ve never called the Transmission phone line, and I’ve only commented on the blog a few times, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not an ardent fan of yours.

I got my first iPod in late 2006, and had to check out what “podcasts” were. The first one I found was Jay and Jack’s (and theirs is the other podcast I listen to regularly), and they kept referencing the greatness that is the Transmission. When I checked it out, sadly, it was on hiatus, but I downloaded and listened to all the old Transmission podcasts anyway, and lamented that it was no more. The day a new Transmission podcast magically appeared on my iTunes screen through the magic of subscription, I was a happy camper, and it only got better after that.

Mahalo, Thank you, and everything else. “Lost” may be over, but, thanks to your efforts, the discussion will continue for some time to come. Y’all are the BEST!

I was satisfied with the finale, although I think they should have built up the finale message behind much earlier instead of focusing too much on only the Locke character. Perhaps the gorgeous message behind would have become more clear as it turned out with the finale episode.

I noticed they muddled on some things too, so some strings of the characters’ backstories were not picked up consequently enough to bring it completely to an end. For example Sawyer’s backstory with Cassidy and Clementine or Miles on the concert event, but not meeting his father, who acted as conférencier. Ana- Lucia’ role was not quite clear relating to the end.
Also noticeable Richard’s first flight and therefore Richard was less impressed of the modern technics. .-)
I missed some characters in the church in the end, so indeed a Richard, Ana-Lucia and so on.
Although the end was great, I would have liked it more if they would have made it a bit more a collective ending of the survivors’ group, instead of only being focused on the character Jack. Not at least this was one point some fans were disappointed with.