I think the ending was rushed, trite, and avoided almost all of the major plot points and Island mysteries the writers have been leading us along with for the past six years. Oh, Charles Whidmore’s motivation? It doesn’t matter. Why the numbers were broadcast from the radio tower? Don’t worry about it. Who built the temple and what power did it hold? Eh – who cares? Because it’s always been about Jack, don’t you see that now? So we wasted half on Season Six on the pointless flash-sideways stories when the island drama could have been explored with greater depth. Darlton have been telling us that the Island was one of the characters of the show. Oh really? Then why was it reduced to walk-on roles in the final episodes.

Yeah, it was a tear-jerker and had a feel-good ending, but is this the ending we’ve been thinking about and hoping for every since Des didn’t push the buttons on time and Oceanic broke into three pieces over the Island?

Final Grade – Started out with great promise but for overall execution it gets a C-.

Loved LOST. Will miss it so much. Nothing else on TV to watch now, except True Blood on HBO. Emerson’s (Ben) wife is on True Blood.

To Steve who talked about how funny Sawyer was in the finale – right on! I couldn’t stop laughing at his lines in the first part of the show- especially his comment to Jack that (paraphrasing) while everyone else go do whatever , that he had to go get the magic leprauchaun out of the well!!!!
I couldn’t stop laughing – even the second time i watched it.

I can’t adequately express how much i will miss this show – in spite of my disappointment in the last few minutes of the finale.

One time I listenend to the Darlton team on a podcast – a few seasons back – and their attitude turned me off – they were dismissive of fans and made derisive comments about the plot and the characters, in their attempt to be funny. They reminded me of junior high school boys being shallow. That should have been my first clue that LOST was going to end nonsensically.

The music was awesome – every day since the finale, the music is still stuck in my mind and heart.

I loved all the characters so much – but I loved the mysteries too. It will be forever frustrating to have not gotten some basic answers. While I have not missed the more spiritual point the finale headed off to, it is utterly frustrating to have loved a story that ultimately could not or would not explain the many winding pathways that it took.

Either the Darlton team got lazy or the story got away from them.

I have read every blog entry -my head hurts – but I have enjoyed all the comments from YAE.
I have never blogged before on anything .
PS – my husbund wants me to add that he thinks Faraday was dismissed way too lightly – just playing a piano in the end. He should have been the next Einstein and continued his work on time travel and the island’s mysteries.

I agree that the post has excellent thoughts and I must admit very similar to mine… until such time as going into the discussion of the end and that the writers had written the church scene right after the pilot… I don’t care to know excactly when they wrote the ending, It worked for me regardless of when it was written.

here is an update about this Bad Robot link writer -

UPDATE: DarkUFO contacted ABC and found out that this person was indeed an intern at ABC, but he or she was released 3 years ago.

I know I reread material on British and French Philosophers. David Brooks from the NYT wrote a piece a month or so ago that mentioned Locke and Bentham. Hey, maybe Brooks got the idea for his column from LOST. Ross Douhat (conservative NYT OpEd) blogged about LOST.

Here is an example :

A commentor (from another blog) responded by saying about the finale : I will paraphase it : that the characters are dead, were always dead and it is not because Christian said a few words about life at the end that changes anything.

OK, do we not realize that this is a narrative story and that Christian is character whose words were given by the writers who write the show and if he says something it is meant to have weight and meaning to us, the audience who is watching … whay would we discount Christian’s words and not anyone elses. Is it not just completely crazy to say something like that?

I will remember how this show made me feel, more than I will remember the details of paticular unconcluded story elements.

Also, how can we truly say that the show was an intellectual failure, when more than anything else “out there” short of school (and I would argue that even school/universtiy etc. did less than this show) it made many of us research and read, exchange and debate issues far beyond what you would have possibly dreamed of at the start of this Lost journey.

Like a few mentioned on this blog – if only they had spent so much time doing school as they spent on Lost, exploring various philosophies, theologies, sciences – you nade it this Lost fandom has come out of this experience a little more knowing about certain subjects than when we entered it.

If you need a Lost fix until the podcast, I recommend the follow post by a regular contributor to the DocArtz blog. Really well thought out and written:

http://www.docarzt.com/lost/lost-theories/the-end-thoughts-by-gatesy/

I think when Jack looked at his scar in the mirror part of him was thinking it was a bit off, and now we know it was because MIB stabbed him there as well.

It would be interesting if the DVD had the sideways in a whole different segment by themselves to watch it play out like one long story.

re:Desmond on the island, I don’t think island Desmond realized that the sideways was the afterlife, he thought it was a whole new reality. He popped back into his island body before realizing what it really was.

A tidbit I got from the Jorge interview on Jay and Jack. Henry Ian Cusick put a rock in his shoe for filming all the island scenes so he would really limp for real. That is dedication. Plus I was incorrect before Matthew Fox wasn’t stabbed with the trick knife, he was stabbed with the real knife that Terry was using. Good thing he had a pad on and the knife was dull.

If Lapidus had gotten stuck in the 70′s he could have been the pilot on “the plane” on Fantasy island, haha.

Sawyer and Miles as cops, would’ve been great!

We’ll see more of Hurley and Ben on the island in the DVD extras, they did a segment for it.

I hope all the actors find more work, they are all wonderful. (except for Zoe, can’t stand her as an actress)

@Faith and Greenberry – Exactly! I felt that as much as Sayid loved Nadia (and he did experience his happiness with her in real life, he had emotional baggage with her that must have been difficult to overcome) but with Shannon, he was himself and she viewed him as a hero, she didn’t have to see him when he was a soldier like Nadia did.

re:sideways world, the time concept was a bit mindbending at first, but I let go of everything I thought about time and just concentrated on the concept of “now” being immediate in sideways no matter when you died you all come together at the same time. Just throw logic aside.

I didn’t realize last night’s episode was enhanced and came across it around the time Sayid and Shannon reconnected. I recorded it to watch later.

I am a British guy, living and working in Seoul, Korea. I have been a great fan of your show, listening to all your insights, as well as all your other listeners, and part of of my whole experience of Lost is being a part of your show.

Since Lost began it has changed my life. Before Lost I was unfamiliar with computers (I come from a different generation ^^). But Lost gave everyone much more than a TV show. I am now able to cut and paste pictures, words, whole pieces of writing. I can post and edit my own writings for forums. I can chat online to other fans directly or indirectly. I can join in live streaming feeds. I can discuss philosophers and philosophy at the water cooler. I can comfortably chat about time travel and time paradoxes. I can hold my head up when discussing different religions and mythology. All of these things I owe to Lost.

But I also owe them to podcasters such as yourselves. Without you, I wouldn’t be the new me. And I love the new me. So I want to say to you both thank you, thank you, thank you, for reinventing me.

While many are complaining about the unanswered questions, I’m a bit more forgiving given the practical and not everything is under your control aspects of TV and don’t mind filling in my own blanks.

How many shows do we know before LOST where the writers had so much face time? I don’t recall ever having listened and read so much spoken or said by the writers of Seinfeld, The West Wing, or one of the first modern serials, 24 or any huge hit TV shows.

If you count the number of podcasts this show has on iTunes, the number of blogs that pick apart the show, it’s unprecedented. There are more than 30 podcasts (and while I scanned most of them, I only found 3 or 4 palatable, The Transmission, Creative Loafing, LostChatter, Delta Park and TV critics from the Chi Trib, Time, Sepinwall. To me, solo podcasts do not work, some had awful audio quality, some were their own best fans, some didn’t really know the show that well, and some started attacking each other – who cares, etc…)

But the fact that there was so much scrutiny on LOST forced the writers to do things to throw people off that I found a little disingenuous, see the head fakes to throw us off from figuring out the flash sideways, making us think the FS had something to do with the island timeline.

So the next big hit serial, I’ll watch, but I’ll keep all the negatives from this show in the back of my mind.

Also, because the writers injected themselves into the experience of watching the show, I think some people projected their opinions of the writers into in their opinion of the show. If you don’t like the writers, for whatever reason, say you think it’s an important point whether they knew the end from the start or they had a plan all the long, there’s a good chance you won’t like the show.

Another thing I noticed about people who are extremely negative on LOST is from the complaints, they really didn’t watch the show or if they watched it, they weren’t paying attention or seemed to have an opinion before ever watching and stuck to it.

When our emotions die over time.. will we still be debating significant story-line questions that no one ever intended to answer? Plot puzzles that made no sense? Confusing and inconsistent facts. Stuff made-up on the run?

I’ll remember the excellent acting, beautiful scenery, and the promise of a huge WOW payoff at the end that would help make 70% of Lost’s mysteries some kind of sense to me.

It was a wild and fun journey. But it’s pretty obvious there never was supposed to be a destination.. just a stopping point. And that makes it very easy for me to “move on” past the Island, just like Jack.

The rewatch also made me understand the Sayid/Shannon connection better ~~ I believe that even though Nadia was the love of Sayid’s life, that relationship was marred with agony of his past torture ~ it was the time on the island together that the LOSTies received their redemption and best selves, which makes those moments (days, weeks, months, years) the most poignant and important and therefore meaningful. Thus, Sayid received his redemption through turning over a new leaf on the island, and being able to love Shannon in a healthier, less burdened way

I found the episode emotionally satisfying because you got to see all the characters together and happy, and I guess it’s the characters that were the main reason I kept coming back to the show. I’m particularly un-cynical when it comes to cheesy tv/movie stuff like that. However, the entire flash sideways world was created simply for that emotional pay off.

I have a small feeling of being cheated out of a few big questions and also having all the time invested in the sideways world wasted – and also because I shook off character deaths easily in the 6th season because I knew they were sweet in the other timeline. However, now I find that they were actually dead. They shifted the entire climax of the show from who becomes the replacement in looking after the island to the fact that all the characters meet up after they’re dead.

What I am going to do is ignore that feeling of disappointment, and shove it away and bury it. I’m going to decide to look at all the on island stuff that happens as answering enough questions – most of it was all about finding someone to protect the island and that person ended up being Hurley. All the ‘numbers’ stuff and things like a bird that says ‘Hurley’, I’m going to put to down to coincidence and weird stuff that happens.

while i am coming to some peace on the ending, i do think the sideways world was a let down. but as i sit with it, i think perhaps this is not entirely that they are all dead.

i think in terms of the story we were following, yes, they are dead. that timeline/lifetime has ended.

but as far as DHARMA goes as a religious concept, this COULD be the next life JACK spoke to DESMOND of. a life in which things passed differently. due to all the struggles of their previous lives, they came together in the next iteration of existence, and were rewarded.

so its not that they all are dead. as christian said, they are REAL. but also they have come to see beyond good and evil, and life and death. thus, they have a greater understanding, and are a bit like desmond has been. able to see beyond his single lifetime.

their moving on is not even that they die again, but are able to transcend.

did they fudge the ending a bit? i think so. does the concept match the theme of the series?

im not sure.

but it is an ambitious end to a mainstream network show.

@FAITH KAPLAN has issues with it too. but as the on island went, it worked for me.

so again, i have my issues with it. but JACKS eye closing was very good. its the sideways i have issues with.

ive run the gambit, of outrage, anger, acceptance, and a return to disbelief in relation to the ending.

i still think it was a bit of a cheat, making us think that as JULIA said, IT WORKED.

but reading this post a friend sent on did give me some solace in regards to how to view the whole ending.

http://designwoop.com/2010/05/lost-finale-explained-well/

if its indeed true that THE CREATORS knew it would end not only on JACKS eye closing, but with that whole bit in the church, then i have some more peace about it all.

from previous interviews it seems DARTLON didnt expect for the series to last more then 12 episodes to one full season. they expressed admiration of short run series like TWIN PEAKS & the PRISONER, which, in retrospect, seems very much like where we were in the first season. in a strange and fantastical place. part of what made it so fascinating is because nothing made complete sense. but like those series, the endings didnt quite manage to JUSTIFY the whole series.

it would seem their original intent WAS to have THE WHOLE STORY be purgatory, and not go much beyond the length of a mini/limited series. but with creating something that found such love, they went and tried to give us more.

so now, here we all are, debating, questioning, and working hard to figure out what the ending MEANT. imagine if they had answered what WALT had to do with it all. or if we knew what the numbers meant. sure, we’d have answers, but we wouldn’t all be adding 1000+ comments trying to get some understanding.

as much as im disappointed by not having answers, i think our theories are that much better then what we could ever be given. like the MIB origin. it was better in our minds.

i’ll probably change my mind and post again, but for now, i am at least a bit resigned to where we ended up-in this bloody mess together.

thanks DARLTON.

@Jeremy in Rochester, May 23, 6:01 PM: Please, please, I beg you, do not put Damon and Carlton in the same league with Tolkien and Lewis, for so many reasons. The one that comes to mind with your post is the obvious one: they DID explain many mysteries they introduced (the One Ring (Tolkien), the Wood Between the World, the origin of the Lamp Post, what the afterlife is…). The only mystery I can think of that wasn’t resolved completely is who Tom Bombadil was.

@Abby: “My husband’s final comment was “well, God spelled backwards is Dog.””
Well, we had to have some bit of mirroring on the island side of things.

@Clint, May 23, 6:17 PM: MAHALO for allowing that there are different kinds of viewers of this show…and not judging either side as “haters”, “fan boys/girls”, etc. Tired memes that need to be abandoned. Damon and Carlton set up the show to appeal to different kinds of viewers, and it ought to be recognized that in the end only one set of viewers seemed to be appealed to.

@Michael, May 23 6:35 PM: You said it, brotha, and better than I ever could.

@Stan, May 23, 7:32 PM: My first comment on this blog was that YAE were better writers than the writers of the show. Thank you for proving it.

@Jeff from Utah said: About halfway through the finale I realized they were probably not going to answer any major mysteries, but I found my self saying “Who cares?” I was having a blast just watching everyone be reunited.

Yes, I think that was quite intentional, along with the clip show that heavily featured the pilot, and the re-airing of the pilot the night before. It felt very much to me like, look, we’re going to touch you on every “aw, isn’t that sweet that they finally got together?” level we can, one after the other, so when all is said and done (and nothing much will be said or done), you’ll forget about all the other things we teased you with. NOT. I can’t be bought off with a few tears.

@Ana, May 23, 11:52: “But those magic days are long gone.” You said it, sister.

Well, I think a day’s worth of reactions is enough for now.

And just for the record, I liked the Galactica finale. And much like “Lost”, I never was very interested in the theorizing. My first comment about “Lost” on any blog was that I enjoyed a good story, well told, and I thought “Lost” was awesome. Of course…that was season one.

Ryan and Jen, I came to podcasts late, and yours was the first I listened to. I remembered your name, Ryan, from the Hawaii Threads site that I started visiting a few months before we moved to Hawaii. Read your filming reports avidly and Jen, your near-miss star-spotting moments regretfully (like Nestor Carbonell in Kailua). I’ve read a lot about “Lost” being “art” in these threads, but I’m of the viewpoint that the real art here has been the crafting of an interesting and diverse community…and that’s all you. Mahalo.

@Faith…I agree- its why I think MIB had a name but they didnt tell us because they realized that we put a lot of stock into the meanings of people’s names and for whatever reason they couldn’t find a name that would satisfy us…or confuse us..etc…turns out the names were just a fun way to build a crazy fan base who spent hours after each show looking up “Hume” and “Hawking” and finding connections.

I also really thought we would somehow see Desmond read or be handed the book he said he would read before he died- they set up so many really cool things like that (and the obvious one about the outrigger and the shooting when they were sailing through time) that they never had a chance to play out.

The more I think about it, the more I think there is still something missing from the finale. Yes, they still could have had that last scene with Jack closing his eye, but the rest of it is what I fail to understand fully. I will keep trying, maybe buy the DVD and watch the finale a dozen more times…

Let me start by saying thanks to our hosts Ryan and Jen! Their unwavering devolution to this show and this community of LOST fans is exceptional beyond words! I cannot thank them and you enough for the positive impact you have had on my life and that of so many others. I found the Transmission by accident and just like our characters on the island who find one another and bond through their collective experience. We too have entered each others lives in someway or another through this electronic world. So metaphorically speaking the Transmission has become our island. I love LOST as my name suggests, but LOST is simply my constant that keeps bringing me back together with all of you. I have not posted nearly as much as many of you over time, but I like Jacob prefer to observe from a far as I read and listen to “You all everybody”. I will never forget this wonderful experience and I hope to see each of you in another life!

WELSHIE

I’m a week behind everyone. I’ve just been able to find a way to see the episode. And so I’m left with echos all the other people.

I also want to understand what the deal is with David. Was he a figment of their mutual imagination? Even if so, is he real and self aware or just a holodeck character? Maybe he was created by their imagination (or Hurley), but their imagination (or Hueley() created a new world that exists now on its own. It at least continued since others like Daniel Widmnore and Anna Luccia get their chances later.

And what about Helen? That’s not fair at all? If she’s not real, the relationship seems hollow. And if she is Helen after her death, why can’t she be invited in and allowed to come along? Are those already together not allowed to go to the next level?

I end up being emotionally satisfied by intellectually unsatisfied. Thankfully, the emotion is wining out.

I’ll admit it was better the second time around. Still don’t like that many things were left unanswered.

But I’m now ready to close the “lost chapter” of my life and move on. I’ll listen to this weeks podcast, then I’m done with the show, probably for good.

I don’t plan to buy the complete series just to get a few more answers they should have given us during the show. I’m sure that info will be posted on lostpedia and other sites sometime after. If I’m still curious when that time comes, I’ll check it out then.

Ryan and Jen, I’ve really enjoyed your podcasts this season and have been excited to see a couple of my comments make it into the show, that’s always cool. I only wish I had found your podcast earlier, it would have made my lost experience a lot better.

You all everybody. I enjoy reading everyones comments and try to read every single one most weeks.

See you all (everybody) in another life, brother/sister.

Sure, I never expected everything to be answered, there was no time. It would not be possible to satisfy all of us, there are just too many and we have theorized for far too long. Nevertheless, I believe that many important story lines were left unanswered. Many have been listed above, a few that I like to highlight is what the heck is the island, what made Walt so special, why did Jacob prevent his brother from living the island, what was Dharma looking for on the island, was it the smoke monster a.k.a. C. Shephard that we saw in LA and on the freighter, or did both J and MIB use his body, the smoke monster was at the temple but then the temple became the sanctuary from the monster. Jacob was not a deity but he could still make others immortal and he was immortal himself, how or why is that? Some of these should have been answered, through these answers we might have understood a bit more. Saying that we did need any more answers than what we got is something that I do not understand. Sure, real life is similar, we do not have all the answers but then there are no smoke monsters in real life and if I wanted real life I would gaze out of my window or something and not spend six years following the show.

I love the characters and I loved how their stories were interwoven and how they came together, the dynamic of the “society ” they build on the island, the adventure of starting something new away from it all on a mysterious island with a peculiar history and even more peculiar abilities. So in that sense the show should go on for a long long time, I would have kept watching. The ending though was not something I expected, mostly because I was in denial, but for what they gave us, the story was at least two seasons too long. Season 2 and various other episodes, Locke and his Eko, Walt, the pregnancy thing, the stealing of children, all these did not really add towards the ending they gave us. I may just be missing something or I may just be too dumb (the writers are certainly super clever and very well read) to understand the significance of all these story lines. So in short I can accept and like the ending if the story was more compact. While watching the finale I thought that the ending of Season 5 was more appropriate as an ending, the white light.

As for the finale itself, did anybody notice that the concert was very weird and awful, Faraday was playing the piano and the whole thing was a cacophony of incompatible sounds. I loved the fight scene between Jack and Flocke, the way it was shot it was part Matrix and part LOTR. What was so important in Flocke’s back bag that he always had to grab it? What was that thing with Shannon, I thought that Nadia was the love of Sayid’s life. Why weren’t some main characters in the church, people like Lapidus or Walt when people like Penny were present. Ben dived to save Hurley that was very unselfish, so unlike Ben! The acting has always been strong but this episode topped it all. I am not sure if others felt the same way but I felt lots of times that this could have been a Stephen King story.

I cannot believe the show is finally over. I love listening to you guys, I will certainly miss Darlton’s podcasts. What gives me solace though is that throughout the six years Darlton never took themselves too seriously, they had loads of fun, they were very creative and they told a story the way they wanted and could. We got our money’s worth and then some. It is only a story after all…..

You guys ….as always…. ROCK!!! Thank you!

Ilias

“LOST was (and will be) the best on tv EVER.”

THANKS to the Lost finale
the Twilight Zone remains the best of TV.

Question: thinking over who was there at Jack’s moving on celebration, in the church, it SEEMS that those present should be the ones who mattered to Jack – on the island and in his life. So, his mom wasn’t there? Does that bother anyone else? Also, Penny WAS there, but I can’t remember him ever meeting Penny. So how does that work?

Just an idea, I’m personally in fine with what we were given. I like the idea that (at least through the summer) there will still be plenty to pick apart through discussion in various podcasts and message boards.

Long live the LOST conversation!!

I do think it is cool how the writers turned certain characters motives and actions on their heads, particularly Ben’s and Juliet’s: two characters I despised for a very long time. I like the message in that: that we can not always assume the way people are at first blush; that there may be more to people than what initially meets the eye; that people can potentially be redeemed if they have the strength and courage to make that choice.

Kind of sad that Man in Black couldn’t…

Now I see the parallels in which all the characters on the show who died. Every time someone died and their eyes were still opened, someone found the time to close them. I always wondered why they made such an obvious effort to show this.

Naomi, by Sayid
Boone, by Jack

These are the only I can think of, but I’m sure there were much more. A parallel to finding closure. Moving on. Letting go.

A couple more thoughts after reading the new posts while I was typing my last one.

LOST Novels. Yep, I would be game for any of them. Although I do have to agree with a poster from a few days ago that they would have to be cannon, and thus D & C or at least part of the writing crew would need a hand in them. I would be more than glad to read any novel about LOST that I knew was accurate.

@Carol from Boston – Yes, I did notice how many were crying in the beginning of Jimmy Kimmel Live that night. I also was wiping away tears from my eyes and caught myself crying even more when I rewatched the episode yesterday. Yeah, I did end up rewatching it. And will no doubt watch it again (probably several times) before I put it to bed. :-

I guess my next browser tag from here will be Amazon to see if I can find a copy of “Parallel Worlds”. It sounds like it would be a book worth reading.

Lastly – @HeyKir in NYC & @Islandsidhe – I already have a call into Walter. Peter says he will have him give one of us a call just as soon as he gets out of ………………

I’m not exactly sure right now whether it was in the “Times Talk Live – LOST” interview, or if it was in the Jimmy Kimmel interview (or maybe both) but Damon & Carlton did make a point of saying that if you “SAW” it on LOST, it was real and something to take to the bank that actually happened. But if you were only “TOLD” it, then you should question as to if it is fact or not. I believe the reference at the time was regarding Widmore, and his true intent of coming back to the island, but they indicated it was true throughout the series.

So, with this in mind, could it be that Walt’s explanations for the Whispers was all BS, and that is the reason for the unresolvable difference?

Just a thought.

@aaron r and Faith Kaplan: I hope you guys enjoy “Parallel Worlds” and I would love to hear your thoughts on it. Faith – I’m going to pick up “Physics of the Impossible” as soon as I can.

@HeyKir in NYC: Thanks and, yes, somebody call Walter!

@greenberry (6:51 am): Count me in as another who would love to tour Oahu someday. Wouldn’t it be awesome if there could be “Lost” fan conventions there?

Three quickie thoughts:

1) I, too, would love to make it to Oahu to tour the Lost filming sites sometime

2) I was touched by the emotion expressed by many men

3) This may be silly, but I called it that Kate would be important and purposeful in the end. I am happy by this alone!

Thanks Jen and Ryan for an excellent podcast!

http://twitpic.com/1p12gf

G23 – The number to get the Apollo bar from the candy machine.

G? The 7th letter of the alphabet. 7?? G??

102 – Charlie’s room number. 102 = 108 – 6? 6??

May 23rd – the date, the producers said, was a coincidence.

none of the characters are shallow, or just “good” or “evil”, everybody always has a history and a motivation. certain actions/modes of behaviour don’t just “happen” as a singular event, they are part of a context/chain of events, just like in real life. all characters are credible and depited in pretty realistic ways.
i just loved it time and time again when the show was able to engage my sympathy for a character i had previously disliked.

the well written characters (& the great storywriting in general) and of course the beautiful island setting was what drew me to the show in the beginning and kept me going for all those seasons.

the mystery element was something introduced very early on in the show (in the pilot actually!) and i still don’t feel that the writers/producers did all the mysteries justice. ok, sometimes it’s just cooler to leave stuff to the imagionation, but after all the anticipation after season 5 i still feel it’s a bit thin what the producers gave us in the last season.

i personally understand the “sideways flashes” as something that happens after jack dies, but apart from time & space, just like christian shepherd put it: “there is no HERE NOW”

it doesn’t mean that they are all dead NOW and that everything we saw on the island never happend. (again, christian said “some died before you and some died a long time after you”)

so really the sideways world was a mean to show us an alternate “how it all could have been” or “favorite moments reviewed”. (some of the stories just didn’t catch me, but seeing sawyer and juliet together again was a huge payoff.)

LOST was (and will be) the best on tv EVER.
it is an epic tale about “the human condition”.
and with that knowledge, i can also accept the finale.

LOST is now something that will continue away from the screen in our hearts, minds and of course online.
we can all continue to theorize about how long before egyptian times “mother” was on the island and how she got there, how kate, sawyer, desomond, miles, richard alpert and lapidus continue their lives off island (and if they will ever come back…) and how ben helps hurley protect the island.

Thanks!

@Aaron, my husband and I both have discussed going to Hawaii at some point, it is one of the places we plan to visit someday. It will happen! I am putting off long plane rides till my youngest gets a bit older as well. I have a vacation fund started. We had a nice amount in there till our van died, and then real life interceded and we used it towards a new mini-van. Ironically we bought a Toyota on the same day all the recalls came out. I couldn’t believe it when we got home. Talk about timing.

http://twitpic.com/1qjen1

@Yann- you are funny, when can we put that show on the air?

@Coolpeace – I watched the episode a second time and liked it even more now that I know the “twist”. I think Rose and Bernard knew from the first episode this season, she was pretty calm during the turbulance and told him to “let go” plus Bernard was joking as well. They weren’t worried about crashing since they knew they were already dead.

@Steve- Samuel huh? I guess MIB sounds scarier, lol.

You know this week hasn’t been too bad because Lost is still fresh, but a few weeks from now when we have moved on, I’ll be sad.

@Carol i’ve purposely not mentioned the condition of the world and our pockets while posting here. the realities are overwhelming, and one of the attractive things about Lost and places like this is their ability to be a path to step away from the grind. and still make our brains work, to boot. i am not currently working so hawaii would be a stretch for me, too. if you’ve never been, you really should go when you can.

Things that didn’t make it into the show:

Samuel was the name originally given to Man in Black.

Ilana was Jacob’s daughter.

http://twitpic.com/1r93zr

http://twitpic.com/1rdvxv

Islandsidhe had a great long post May 27 at 9:35 am (I guess that’s Hawaii time) expounding a very interesting perspective linking the physics and the metaphysics. I think we’re all still chatting, still lost, and enjoying ourselves. Yes, there’re some negative reactions, but overall not so bad as you might imagine.

The first is (surprisingly) “Xanadu”. The lyrics tie into the sideways amazingly well. I got chills relistening to it the first time.

The second is “Visions of Johanna” which is a Bob Dylan song that appear in episodes or promos but which Damon said very early this season that reminded him of season 6. I couldn’t see much of a connection until after the finale, but I do now!

And about conferencing?? What about Google Wave? I have 23 invitations left…

Just a thought: What if starring in Lost was the best time of all of their lives, such that one day they will actually be sitting in that church together, being guided to the next plane of existence? Art imitates life and life imitates art…

Okay, as I noted, I skipped most of Seasons 1 and 2 so maybe I’m missing something here but … here goes:

WHISPERS
If the whispers are the bad souls trapped on the island,
1. why do we hear voices of people who didn’t die on the island like Christian and the man Sawyer killed (I’d chalk that one up to Sawyer having an audio hallucination, but later other people hear it too).
2. Also why do the whispers show up on the coroner’s tape when that dead girl comes back to life?
3. Why are the whispers taking about using equipment? “Hand me the scope,” etc. If they are ghosts why are they using equipment? The also talk about shutting doors and windows.
4. Why are they worried about being seen and having their hiding places discovered?
5. Why are they worried about being accidentally shot?
6. Why are the first whispers we hear (when the smoke monster is killing the pilot) make is sound like the smoke monster is made up of multiple people (they are actually worried about being seen and argue about what the mission is)
7. Why is Michale trapped as a ghost when he found redemption at the end (and actually died at sea, not on the Island).

I think they had a scifi intent for these whispers, then later changed their minds.

Reasons 1 & 2: Which episode are you referencing here?

Reasons 3 thru 5 (I assume) are based upon viewers deciphering the whispers using technology of some sort. If so, I consider this “irrelevant” evidence as unless the sounds were intended to be decipherable, the actual content can’t be considered a clue.

Reason 6: I’m not sure what you’re talking about here … I thought the first time we heard the whispers was during Solitary? I only heard the “chka chika” sound when the Moster attacked/killed the pilot.

Reason 7: I respectfully disagree regarding Michael’s redemption — I interpreted Christian’s message to Michael (The island’s done with you”) to mean just that — not that he had redeemed himself for killing Libby and Anna Lucia. As for the geographic location — guess I’ll say a freighter offshore is close enough for Island ghost purposes and leave it at that.

As I noted in my previous post, I just started watching LOST with the beginning of Season 3. However, in reviewing the various posts it seems pretty clear that most of the “unanswered mysteries” were introduced and/or expanded upon during the first 2 seasons, including the food drops, the pregancy difficulties/the Others’ preoccupation with kids, the whole Why is Walt special. As such, I had no strong need for resolution of such mysteries because my interest in the show was limited to the characters and the mysteries that were answered (to my satisfaction), ie Who is Jacob, What is the Smoke Monster, What’s in the Temple, Where did Richard come from, What’s with the statue. Therefore, I was satisfied whereas those viewers who had invested six years versus my four were understandably less satisfied.

Just wanted to explain myself for the record.

NAMASTE

You may be interested in listening a very well thought out discussion about the Lost finale – I enjoyed the debate.

It is from the IGN TV crew, you can download it from this link or from iTunes (search for IGN Channel Surfing):

http://ie.tv.ign.com/articles/109/1092895p1.html

@ Angel : thanks for the link – I also found the behind the scene video with Emerson quite good as well.

@ LReene : maybe ABC will reconsider … of course there is always the Internet, i am sure Youtube will have it. But I agree – annoying!

http://g4tv.com/videos/46136/Michael-Emerson-on-Lost-Finale–Hurley-Epilogue/

@Pete.. here is another challenge. Can you explain how The Numbers dribbled out into the real world? I assume each candidate was assigned a Number from what we saw in the Lighthouse episode. OK.. but how does that explain Numbers popping up everywhere the Losties went before the Island? Oh.. and they were on the Hatch too!

re: Hawaii – My husband and I can’t go to Hawaii unless my whole family can go, so it means also paying for our kids as well. And then what are the chances they’ll let me take off and leave them. The airfare alone would be thousands as the cheapest flights I have seen are about $700.

Right now I am only working part-time and for the third year in a row I am not getting a raise. I hope to find something better soon and then I can use the money for vacation instead of using it to pay off our oldest Daughter’s college loan. Working in a public library doesn’t pay well, but hey I get free fines so at least there is that.

Aaron R- If you end up setting something up and I know the logistics I’ll see if I can manage it. Believe it or not I am shy, so I like writing better than having to talk in person.

As a whole I loved LOST, and will always treasure that. It will be fun to rewatch the whole series with the focus on Jack (and Jacob?) in mind. I am now wondering how the series would have gone if the writers had killed off Jack in episode 3???!!!

I would go to Hawaii in a flash!! (back, forward, side, or even hot) ~ I would be willing to meet anywhere in the U.S. or Canada too. However, I am NOT computer-savvy!

@ Carol – yes I too believe the writers had more answers. But in some sense, if it is Jack’s story and Jack doesn’t know the answers, how would the audience? I know it doesn’t seem fair but it depends how you frame it. And then there’s the question of finding time and space to fit it all in.

And speaking of time and space, @ Islandsidhe, I think that’s a genius idea. Makes so much sense to me from both perspectives. I referenced the June issue of Scientific American much previously – an article about “Is Time An Illusion?” – here’s a link – I don’t understand it all completely (that’s why I read puzzling articles) but some of you might do better than me. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-time-an-illusion

Their response “if it doesn’t matter to the characters, it doesn’t matter to us” well how about “it matters to the fans, so it SHOULD matter to us” We are not asking for every question answered but the important ones would be nice.

How did Jack get out of the source without any one pulling him up? Was he thrown out on the rocks like MIB?

Jacob and his mother both had to say some latin words over the water, Jack just put some in a bottle, said drink it, and now you are like me. He didn’t do anything special with the water.

I do agree with you on the idea of introducing story lines, using them through multiple episodes (and even season), and then dropping them like a hot potato is sloppy story telling. I guess for me, that was one of the disappointing parts. I just didn’t think D & C would do that.

@Islandsidhe – I LOVE your theory here. I guess I will have to rewatch all episodes afterall, and go back and study my Lost University notes again. There was a LOT of time spent in a couple classes strongly hinting at what you just got through explaining. May be more truth than poetry here. I again say, if this is the case, we better get in touch with Walter Bishop. He can probably show us the way. Then again, JJ Abrams probably could too.

Thanks for the thought, it would have been fun.

@Tori i agree completely.

That said, I’m surprised to find myself a bit cheated by the ending. My sense is actually that it simply needed more time… I always thought it needed 7 seasons, or better yet, 108 episodes. I think they needed more time to bring characters and ideas together, and that would have solved the issue of (at least for me) it feeling too crunched at the end, with too much left unresolved. For instance– it felt contrived that Jack and Kate are suddenly together, while the spark between them had died many episodes ago. And certainly there was a better way of combining some of the sci-fi/mystical wackiness stuff, with the more human stuff and the more traditional spiritual stuff. I think it would have been even more brilliant to infuse the sci-fi into the human stuff– thus creating something really new.

Anyhow– it’s a testament to the show that I’m still jonesin’ over it and will be for a while… Some of those scenes were incredible– Jack’s last moments with Vincent– the chat between Locke and Ben– etc…. Deep stuff that truly touches the heart. Don’t go away, LOST!

What if the Sideways and the Light wasn’t the afterlife at all? At least, not in the same sense as we normally think of it. I believe that, if you choose to, you can interpret it as heaven or some all-inclusive afterlife world. But I think, that with the show’s mix of so many different religions and science – especially quantum physics – it could be interpreted in a very different way.

All through this season some people have been speculating about the Sideways as being a parallel reality created by the detonation of Jughead. The existence of parallel realities or dimensions is theory seriously espoused by some quantum physicists and other scientists, including physicist Michio Kaku who has written an entire book exploring the possibility called “Parallel Worlds”. I don’t fully understand the concepts, thought I’m fascinated by them – so to summarize really poorly, there is a theory that there are separate universes, like bubbles, that touch upon one another but are unseen by one another. It is speculated that something like wormholes might be able to connect these universes, and those wormholes could be created by – you guessed it – massive amounts of energy, that we don’t have the technology yet to build or harness.

There is a parallel to this theory – pardon the pun! – in metaphysics, where the concept of astral planes is discussed. These different levels of existence are also connected but unnoticed by one another, and it is believed by some that they can be visited by people who train their consciousness to perform “astral travel”. Meditation is usually cited as the way to engage in astral travel. But perhaps being exposed to massive amounts of electromagnetism could work too?

What I’m getting it is the idea that, what is viewed as the afterlife or heaven through the lens of religion, could be viewed through the lens of quantum physics as a parallel world or plane of existence, or according to the multiverse theory, a separate “construct” created by choices (for more information about this, look up the namesake of our Charlotte Staples-Lewis, the philosopher David Lewis). Metaphysically it could be viewed as an astral plane. “Lost” has made so many references to quantum physics and also to metaphysical topics, that I think it is very possible that – while you can interpret the ending as a purely religious/spiritual one – that might not be the only interpretation. The stained glass window might have been giving us that clue.

Think about the Island itself. It cannot be seen on any satellite; it moves around in space and time. This reminds me both of theories about the Bermuda Triangle and folklore about the “Otherworld”, a place humans could stumble into where they never aged, where time didn’t operate in the same way as the outside world. It clearly exists in another dimension, connected to our own but removed from it.

While some people believe that you can access parallel universes or other dimensions through wormholes or meditation, other beliefs have also centered on the fact that these places can only be reached after death, after the lighter “spiritual” body has been freed from the heavier flesh body. I, personally, have a very strong belief that religion and science are different ways of explaining the same thing. For example, you could see the Big Bang as the collision of two particles, period – or the physical manifestation of God’s actions. Science and religion explain different “levels” of the same phenomenon.

I’m sorry for rambling on so long, and I know this might seem crazy. But I wonder if, with that stained glass window and all the references to quantum physics and “constructs”, we have been given the option to interpret the ending simply or as something a bit more complex. Daniel Faraday actually mentioned this in one Season 5 episode when he was describing time travel and said that at some point, quantum physics leaves concrete science behind and heads into an area more like religion. I think the line between the two is very thin and fuzzy and perhaps the entire series has been pointing to that. After all – who can say that the “afterlife” isn’t another universe we enter, shaped by the choices we made in this one?

but it’ll keep The Transmission alive for a while, won’t it? not to mention sell blu-rays.

here’s an idea about the Whispers. it’s to laugh. when i was young, and it looked as if every home in america would soon have a tv, a rumor started that the gov’t or someone has found a way to use the speaker in your set as a microphone, thus listening in on conversations that you were having in the privacy etc etc. this was during the Cold War, when paranoia was sexy.
so the people in charge at Lost were using this technique (never mind computers, cell phones) and converting what we were talking about at home to Whispers on the show.

nah, never mind…

i kind of laugh when someone says something like ‘i’ll never watch any shows by Darlton again’. look at what they helped create! do people get this worked up and stimulated by Glee? even Fringe, which is the only other tv show i follow, doesn’t create the levels of excitement and attention that i’ve seen around this series. i’ll watch ANYTHING that Darlton does, at least to see if all this was a fluke, or Spielberg-like craft.

@Carol what do you think about my earlier suggestion? you’re one of the voices (Whisperers?) at this site.

Ben told Hurley the he wasn’t Jacob and that Hurley could do things differently. Perhaps that means that Hurley can make up new rules. Plus Jacob could get off the island so there has to be a way.

@Michael J- this show is so detailed that I really think they have answers they just didn’t have the time to give them. It sounds like they planned things out well in advance and talked about many different scenerios.

Start
l l
l l ___
l l l l End
l l____l l
l______ l
l l
l l_________
l____________l

And did EVERY food drop accidentally go wrong and end up at the hatch? You try to explain the one food drop that Hurley was responsible for. Who was dropping all the food for Desmond the years he was there? Or for the guys before Desomond? There is like 10-15 years to account for since the Dharma folks were killed. And why are drops not occurring at other stations? Or a the barracks? Someone was targeting that specific hatch, and seemed to know about when the food would be needed. Accidents don’t explain that.

now,
1) i would imagine that most of us here are reasonably internet savvy. what if we had an online convention? there must be scads of conferencing sites online by now. the only one i know is MeBeam. i hesitate to recommend that one because if you click on the wrong thing, you’ll probably run into something that you might not want to see. definitely NOT family safe. anybody know of a safer one? set a date and time, we could meet there and yell at each other. not really, kidding. but see the faces and hear the voices of people we’ve been sharing with for some time now.

2) this one would take a lot more effort and money. what if we held the conference in Hawaii? i can imagine Jen and Ryan hiding under the bed while we’re there. we’d need expert advice (nudge nudge) on the right time of year to go, at least. i think most of the outdoor locations used on the show aren’t all that far from Honolulu. daytrips. i’ve seen a few places i recognized on the North Shore. if you haven’t been to Hawaii before, it’s a magical place and you definitely should go.

@Embie i know, right? it wouldn’t have been hard to explain. Desmond just
goes Poof. and we don’t even get to see it.

Fun idea, fan fic. What about an exam book with answers in the back? High scorers are certifiably lost.

Your idea is good, though. It seems that what we saw was Jack’s story, with other pieces to make the narrative coherent where Jack would not know some back stories. So there could be spinoffs for each of the other characters. Or a spin backward through time. But, you know, like many who post here, I was reallly invested in the characters, so I don’t know if it would work. Do we have closure?

Also, just a thought…any writers out there want to work on some Lost related fan-fic? We could write our own ending? Our own continuation stories? Or even fill in some gaps in time? Hmmm??

Bit, to change the subject – Desmond – what happened to him after he was pulled out of the cave? How did he get home? Did he:
A. Turn the donkey wheel
B. Die on the island shortly after that scene
C. Sail home on the boat using Michael’s bearing
D. Use his constant to guide him back
E. All of the above
F. None of the above

Extra credit: using current scientific understanding, discuss how special electromagnetic properties might be used to assist in a journey home.

Just kidding around – but does anyone have an idea?

There were a couple of other issues that bothered me about this season, especially the way Widmore went out. Upon reflection, though, I realized that I was so upset by his sudden end because I was clinging to the hope that he had some ANSWERS about some of this stuff.

“Lost” confounded all my expectations. Not only was the rug pulled out from under us by the reveal that Jacob was a murderer (but really, should we have been surprised after the ruthlessness he let be done in his name? Hmm. Remind you of anyone?) but the Big Bads of the show are equally weak and pathetic … and clueless.

All of this has been personally illuminative. I want to believe that somewhere, somebody has answers, in art, if not in real life. Instead, the only meaning comes from our experiences with each other. The Island? The interplay of sun and shadow on the land? As real a character as any. I don’t know if I “believe” in souls, and yet there have been times when I sense a deep mystery at the heart of us.

And I have faith in the potential of people.

There was a time, during all the time shifting, when I lost focus on the story. Once the time shifting starts, it’s almost always a clue that the writers don’t quite know what to do next. I quickly got frustrated, and Juliet’s line about “I think it worked” after Locke intervened? LAME!

The character parts of the story have always been exquisite. That is what will make me buy the Lost boxset and rewatch the whole series.

There were so many characters introduced during the course of the story that seemed utterly and totally pointless.

Just like real life, now that I think of it.

I had a friend who never watch the show and tuned in for the finale and cried. So on a emotional level they knew how to push buttons. But you know what, so does Grey’s Anatomy.

THIS SHOW ISN’T A TYPICAL DRAMA! It was filled with mysteries that motivated our characters, mysteries that plunged our character’s into danger and mysteries that made the Island a main character.

I wish I had had the same experience as those who loved the end. I didn’t cry because I just sat there flabbergasted that they wouldn’t or couldn’t solve most of these mysteries.

Saying they died happily ever after is not how you wrap six years of scifi/mystery show with a complex plot.

Where was my final “THUD?”

In fact, you could have removed all the scifi elements and had the same series with a traditional drama. 42 people crash on an island and struggle to survive while the audience is filled in on their backstory with flashbacks.

But they didn’t. They introduced the scifi/mystery elements and failed to pay them off.

Or, they could have just made it a traditional fantasy from episode one. All it would take is a native character to tell them they have landed on a magical island. There, premise set up.

All the mysteries could have still played out: What are the rules of the magic on the island, Jacob and MIBs game, etct. But they didn’t choose to do this. In fact they kept telling us “There will be a scifi ending to the series, it’s won’t be supernatural.”

And, again, I don’t mind that it turned out to be magic in the end, but they really didn’t even do a good job explaining how the magic worked.

I appreciated that fact that they improvised and took chances, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t fail in the end.

I was entertained for 6 years and for that I am grateful, but telling those of us who are disappointed that we don’t have the right to be, isn’t right either.

The second was the episode in which the freighter’s doctor washed up on shore, but when the freighter was contacted it turned out the doctor was still alive — Keamy hadn’t killed him and chucked him overboard yet. This is another instance of time being skewed relative to journeys to/from the island.

There was also (unless I was dreaming, and I apologize for not having a specific reference) a podcast or interview with Darlton in which someone theorized the food drop happened in a way similar to how I have described it. As I recall, the answer given was along the lines of “you’re thinking about this in the right way” or “that theory wouldn’t necessarily be wrong” (or something like that). If I can find a source, I’ll post it.

It is fine to have disagreements or find fault with the episode, but to insult each other or to revert to name calling is disrespectful to Ryan and Jen and the positive community they have created here. I am all for freedom of speech and hearing pros and cons but why must some people feel the need to preach that only their opinion is the right opinion.

Hopefully that is the last I have to say on the subject as I really try to be positive on this board and that is why I visit here. To avoid the name calling that goes on in other boards.

They spent four seasons setting up riddles and mysteries and then for the last two seasons (and especially in this last one); they decided on yet another path (to heaven) and gave up on really answering anything–which leads me to believe they never had any answers and just kept throwing out new riddles to keep us hanging on week after week (and all those damn months in between) with the promise that all would be revealed (or at least some would be revealed).

I do feel cheated. I had hoped that there were answers to those mysteries but instead I get Damon and Carlton in the form of CJ from the West Wing telling me that answers just lead to more questions so I should stop asking questions.

One thing I’ve learned from Lost: I will never invest any time into a project created by Damon and Carlton ever again.

The Finale sets us up for a sequel.. a Season 7, a Movie, a Book by D/C. Too bad.. this is it.. sadly it ends, and we walk into the light.

Compare this ending to The Sopranos, Bob Newhard, Sixth Sense.. those were endings that made us go WOW back then and in the future! Is this ending going to make us go WOW a year from now? I seriously doubt it.

Still we’ll remember we cried our eyes out when Jack died with Vincent. And for many.. that is enough to call this a Perfect Ending.

But for those who expected a Sherlock Holmes ending.. we got the Love Story ending. For those that wanted the Love Story ending.. they are the happiest of fans.

We did learn how it happened, just not in the finale. Enough information was given throughout the series to draw the conclusion that the Dharma food drop was made by a plane which flew over the island on the wrong bearing. This caused the food drop to happen in late 2004 instead of, say, 1986.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/26/lost-final-scenes-wreckage/

I have not insulted one person who didn’t like the ending, I would never presume to do that. Why must I be stupid to enjoy a great episode? I think I am intelligent enough to think for myself. I don’t think I have been conned or lied to, and although we have a deep connection to this show, the show is for entertainment purposes only.

To be honest as much as I love the show I have more to think about in my life than what the dharma drops were all about. We will get more answers but most of the unanswered questions will remain that way, so it is best to accept that and move on. What good is your anger doing you? It is just driving you crazy.

It’s kind of funny in a way, all this bickering: why is it so important everyone sees it the same way you do? This is the weirdest reaction cycle I’ve ever seen. For one thing, I don’t understand people who didn’t like it trying to convince people that do like it that it sucked. What’s edifying in that? Spread the misery, I guess. It’s disappointing behavior.

I think they had a scifi intent for these whispers, then later changed their minds.

Lastly, don’t be confused about the plane wreck shown during the credits. The show runners have said that they did not put that in the story, that was something that the network did as a transition into the news. Yes, bad choice of imagery but still understandable.

With that said, I will definitely miss “Lost”. It was one of the few show I have watched that still kept just as intrigued at the end as I was in the beginning. I look forward to what the show runners and cast plan to do next. Sadly, until something else like this in scope and power comes along I won’t be watching much ABC.

Although I have no idea if what you have heard is correct or not, I have been searching for the same type of information because I was afraid of them doing somthing like that.

And the worst part of it is, we will probably not get a definitive answer on whether the extra 30 minutes is included on the “Season 6″ until after someone buys it and reports. I hate to sound synical, but they are very good at being vague enough on what is included to keep you guessing. I ended up with both Season 5 on Blu-Ray, AND the Dharma Initive Kit (which also included Season 5), because I couldn’t find out 100% before hand if the kit also included the episodes. It did but…….. I paid twice the price to make sure.

As they say, “Follow the money”…..

Here is the story:
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Lost-Hurley-Ben-1019000.aspx

I did read on E online that Michael Emerson said there will be a selfcontained 15-20 minute story with him as #2 and Hurley as #1 and what their life was like on the island and that it would reveal a lot of mythology questions.

@Michale J – ABC did review the finale before it aired because Damon and Carlton asked for extra time and showed them why. They should have just given them a longer season.

@Carol from Boston I have to add something about the last scene. Jack dies in a field of bamboo. To quote a dictionary of symbolism:

“The joints, individual segments, and staight growth of the bamboo symbolize in Buddhism and Taoism the path and individual steps of spiritual development.”

“for some Masters, the rustle of bamboos was the signal of enlightenment”

For some bamboo is simply something that grows like weeds. I’d like to think in a more symbolic way. I didn’t see Jack as dying a failure like someone above feared but as a man a peace, smiling as he can see his friends escaped, and he had a companion to guide him out of life. Death if the ultimate answer to life all questions rendered moot.

I just heard that to get all the “extras” including a full 30 mins more of material cut from the finale you have to buy the SIX season box set. That is not the SIXTH season DVD but the SIX season box set (i.e S1, S2, S3, S4, S5 and S6 in one box) and you won’t get that on the Season 6 only set. I checked Amazon and they don’t mention any extras on the Season 6 DVD but do on the SIX season DVD.

Anyone know if this is true ?

If that’s true then I’m sorry but ABC just kicked all the fans who paid for this show by buying the seasons as they go along in the nuts very very hard then pushed them off a cliff.

What I am basically saying is that the ending for the show based on the storyline I was given worked for me.

But to be nonest, I wish for a whole different storyline. I feel that even though the show had some religious overtones in the previous seasons, I felt that theshow concentrated on scientific and mystical parts more. So to change it to all “faith” at the end is not something I liked.

I would have liked a year of Ben vs. Widmore. More time spent merging timelines and a lot more time spent in Dharma time discovering some of the island’s mythology. Daniel doing research, “coming” back from the future.

I know I’ve said this before but I hate that it all came down to Jacob, a person that we never met till the finale of season 5. I still think the ending was beautiful and I certainly enjoyed seeing everyone happy and together and Jack defeating MIB, and the ending of Jack in the same shot as the beginning.

They changed the whole tone of the show in Season 6, my problem wasn’t with the finale it was with the whole season. But as I said, not my story to tell so like any story I read, I have to work with what is given to me and judge the story on that.

Do I feel the show owes me anything? No? It entertained me and introduced me to all of you.

So I don’t know if Ben actually is going to kill all those people, or at least try. I don’t know if there will be any merging of the minds between the realities or if so how many. (Will it be the number of the Candidate with THE numbers? Considering that some of them are dead in one of. . . Well, you know the answers and what isn’t answered. Theories are pointless on my part now. . . The only theories are how to explain things unanswered or left ambiguous. (I hope you’re doing that; If not, I encourage that you do that.)

So, looking forward to when I can join the conversation. I hope it lasts more than a week.

But admit it.. the Numbers hooked us bad. How many 100′s of hours were spend discussing what, how, and why they were sent into the Real World. Same thing about Walt and Eloise Hawking (what was she?). Why were subs needed to get to the Island, yet planes could come in and drop food? Why didn’t Frank’s escape plane end up going in circles like Desmond’s escape boat? Etc Etc Etc…

A few good answers.. and I’d be smiling now. Instead.. I’m left with a hollow feeling that many puzzles were simply a long-con to keep us watching, waiting, and hoping til the end.

The ‘on Island’ ending had ambiguous elements to it and open to interpretation. However, thanks to a mouldy tennis shoe in the bamboo grove (compared the the spotless one at the beginning of the ‘The Pilot’) I think I’ve finally settled on the following:-

The Island was real, (not some porch to the afterlife) and the passengers weren’t all killed in the 815 crash.
Ben and Hurley stayed on the Island and got Desmond home.
The Flash sideways world is Purgatory.
The Ajira plane made it off the Island.

Having said I’m sure I’ll re-watch some previous episodes and completely change my mind, but I’m happy at the moment.

I enjoyed the story of these characters and I’m not too bothered about the unanswered questions that are too numerous to mention. However I’m sure there may be some LOST prequel story at some point, with so many loose ends why do the writers throw in the 2 skeletons in the cave? ‘LOST The Dharma Years’?????:)

Not sure if I imagined it or did it sound like Hurley’s voice reading out he numbers in the recording from the radio tower in ‘This Place is Death’. Maybe it was part of his time as #1 on the Island in some time shift?…..OR… maybe as suggested in the finale I need to just let go

Great series, great Podcast.

I know they couldn’t answer every question. My problem is that Season 6 seemed to completely drop all the previous mythology and interesting story lines in favor of magic and mysticism. So it all boiled down to a magical stone cork in a volcano, and two brothers who have been acting out “Waiting for Godot” for 2000 years. Really??

Why was MIB so keen to leave the island, if he thought all people were corrupt, selfish, manipulative, etc.? What did he expect to find off the island? Or did he really just want to destroy everything?

1 Walt would be in the finale
2. We’d find out who was making the Dharma food drops after the crash of 815

LOL. That’s one goofy analogy, but it made me laugh so props to you.

Although I’m reluctant to kick an episode/season/show while it’s down, after I posted I realised something else about the FSW reality. It was an example of deux ex machina par excellence. If we thought the magic box that brought forth Anthony Cooper was an artificial plot device, how about a season long reality that allows them to close the story without dealing with any of the preceding plot elements? Perhaps the task of writing Lost simply became beyond the ability of anyone and everyone. The task they set up for themselves was certainly immense. Still …

I feel that Lost IS art and art is up to interpretation. Some people like the impressionists, some like abstracts. All of it is art. But to say that the artist OWES us something other than THEIR vision is an incorrect assumption.

I would LOVE to know about Walt, and those skeletons in the light well, and why MIB was dispatched so quickly and easily and what the Egyptian connection was etc., but THEY chose to leave those things ambiguous. Am I frustrated? Maybe. Am I angry, no. Any art that makes me ask questions and have spirited discussions with friends, is a GIFT.

At any rate, in case you hadn’t had a chance to read my posts above, I just wanted to let you know how much I agree with what you have said, all the way through. The episode on a stand-alone basis, excellent – gives a warm and fuzzy feeling. As a series finale, it left me with a tremendous hollow feeling. And I can’t believe how many other posts I have read both here and elsewhere on the net where people have said the exact same thing. First blush, wonderful episode. After thinking about it…. not so much. Hopefully the DVD set will shed new light on our beloved LOST.

I am happy that there are others out there who can understand the journey for what it has been.

Were we supposed to see MiB as solely evil, or simply misunderstood and maligned? Was Jacob responsible for making MiB this way, and therefore spent eons trying to rectify his huge mistake? Do we sympathize with Jacob, too, for the heavy burden he was dealt to “save” the Island?

I know there are a couple of great posts above delineating how LOST was Jack’s and Jacob’s story (or only Jack’s)… I will have to reread those.

If I had posted straight after I’d seen it, I probably would have waxed lyrical about it for a few more paragraphs. But it’s now been two days since I saw the finale, and as the emotion has waned and my brain has kicked in, I’m thinking ‘hang on a minute’. See, the ending is so great that you forget that the show doesn’t make sense and the FSW was just one big mis-direction. And that has left me feeling quite unsatisfied. Ultimately, the FSW had nothing to do with the island or its power. It seems anyone and everyone can create a place from which to meet up with their friends before entering the great party in the sky. In fact, there’s no reason why every show can’t end exactly the same way. The final episode of Gossip Girl could involve them all living an ultimate reality so they can meet up and enter heaven together because their time as stuck-up rich kids was the best time of their lives. Or think about how you might react to that ending if that ending was the ending to Seventh Heaven. All those conservative Christians meeting together to enter heaven together as a family. I don’t think we’d be seeing that ending in quite the same light.

And then what is the FSW ultimately saying? Life doesn’t matter because in the end you can end up with your loved ones in heaven anyway? That seems to be the gist of Desmond’s sudden revelation after Widmore puts him through the electromagnetism. He even tells Jack that none of this matters because there’s a place where we can all be together happy. He is not afraid of death because he has seen heaven. It seems like such an anti-life position, which is in stark contrast to the fabulous and fascinating insights into the nature of reality that the show seemed to be exploring: good, evil, science, faith, philosophy and theology. It might have made sense if the island power created the FSW world so that our characters, who had given service to the island, were thus rewarded for their service by entering a special place in heaven. But that didn’t seem to be what they were saying at all. Some have speculated that Hurley had perhaps done that using the island powers but there’s really no evidence for that. And what of Kate, Sawyer and Claire? They left the island and presumably lived for many years. Why wouldn’t they have met other people and had meaningful relationships with them? Where would these people fit into the halfway house of heaven known as FSW?

Then once you go down the path of dissatisfaction, it’s not long before you start heading into unanswered questions territory. All that time theorising and it seems they didn’t have plausible explanations ready to go, thus much of the show makes little sense and there are gaping plot holes. I knew the finale wouldn’t give us answers, I had resigned myself to getting few things answered a couple of months ago, but I hadn’t really been thinking about it till now. Now it just seems that all these unexplained things that we’d mulled over as a group were, in fact, thrown in there because they were interesting. Lost was just a bunch of random stuff that we were trying to make sense of because we thought there was some sense to be made. But there wasn’t. That’s left me feeling pretty hollow.

Take Walt, for example. Now that we know what the island was about, why the plane crashed, Jacob, candidates and all that, why was Walt taken? Can we make sense of it? Why did he appear to Shannon dripping wet in a vision? Can we even remotely make sense of that? Because when they included it, we thought there was a reason known to the creators. It didn’t mean that they necessarily knew the plot intricacies but we thought they had a general reason for why he was taken that would one day make sense to us. But they didn’t. They set up mystery after mystery after mystery that had no answers. I know some things had explanations (e.g. smoke monster) but a great many things was shit they made up that had no explanation. I can’t help but feel a bit cheated here because we were trying to make sense of something that had no sense. Even later stuff wasn’t explained. How does Jacob leave the island? I can’t see how he can. I don’t think the creators of the show know either.

I really loved the video about unanswered questions that was linked above. If you missed it, here’s the link again:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1936291

I really did love the finale. I thought it was brilliant. But this unease has crept into my feelings for Lost that I can’t quite shake. This unease isn’t really directed at the finale but the whole show. I’ll still get the box set and watch it again in time, and maybe I’ll realise that I’ve misread this show or it isn’t so bad, but at the moment this is where my feelings are at, and without new episodes it’s hard to see how these can be resolved. A director’s commentary maybe.

A great deal of Lost makes sense, deep and meaningful sense. The numbers? Really? In the end they just interesting. Knowing ‘the answers’ will not make any difference in anyone’s life. Examining and understanding the MANY relationship, parent/child, life/death issues which were so creatively presented Will make a difference potentially. A life examined is a life worth living.

I find no resonance in a parallel with the work of Picasso. I, too, agree with Pablo concerning the importance of his work. But I have long maintained that Lost was not for everyone. That is why I enjoyed it so much. No spoon feeding.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b183078_idiots_guide_lost.html?cmpid=sn-000000-twitterfeed-365-kristin&utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=twitterfeed&utm_campaign=twitterfeed_kristin

It’s old but so bitter sweet. If you haven’t seen it, YOU MUST>>>

Just before Piccasso passed away he did an interview for an Italian magazine where he admitted that his “art” was crap. He had done it because it was absurd enough to fool people into paying good money for it. He didn’t want to be an artist that lived poor and was revered after death. He wanted the money now, and was willing to sell out to get it. People still think his stuff is art and pay millions for it, even after the artist called it junk.

LOST is not art. It is a collection of falsehoods that fooled 1/2 of us some of the time and the other 1/2 all the time.

@Aaron R- That is very sweet of you to say.

@KL – only 600 posts huh, Slacker, lol. Seriously, the board is crazy this week and the only way I have kept up is go on several times a day to read the ones since I was last on. It is very overwhelming. I hope you didn’t have to do it in one sitting. 600 is a lot! I do wonder how Desmond can get to the afterlife, I think that if the afterlife is connected to the source and Desmond also has a connection to the source, it gave him access through the electomagnetism. I am glad you were able to come to terms with the ending. As I said earlier to Michael, I think I have to be choosy who I recommend this show to, as not everyone will like the ending and I don’t want anybody mad at me.

Whoops, broke my resolution not to theorize and it hasn’t even been a day yet. Can’t help it, theorizing is in my blood now. Wait till a rewatch starts, I’ll go crazy.

First, yes you are right in saying that the just-shot-in-the-leg Locke is really John Locke (not MIB). In mentioning that scene I was showing that Locke told Ethan, at a time prior to the original 815 crash, that he would be their leader and that Ben had appointed him their Leader.

You can understand how Ethan must have thought Locke was crazy. But he must how told Ben about it. Add to that event, Richard being told by Locke in 1954, again, that he was from the future and that he would be their leader, additionally he asks Richard to come and visit him after his birth in 1956 … which spawns Richards visits to the hosiptal when Locke was born and two more times, trying to assess the verasity of Locke’s claim to leadership. Richard subsequently asks Jack (when they were getting Jughead under the barracks) if he should believe in Locke, and Jack said yes, don’t give up on him.

So after the real Locke was shot by Ethan, Richard comes by to remove the bullet, give him the compass, tells him he has to get off the Island and bring back the Oceanic 6 to the Island and to do that he will have to die.

Richard, of course, is following MIB’s instructions – although he was not aware of that fact at the time. Richard’s actions towards the real Locke set in motion a series of events both past and future that culminated in Ben wanting to kill Jacob.

My point was that Locke, Richard and Ben were being manipulated by MIB following the events represented in time travel season 5, which had reprecussions in both earlier seasons and in “The Incident” when Ben killed Jacob.

I hope I am being clear because trying to explain all the machinations does lead to major nose bleeds.

I really expected the magnetic energy (& Des) to reconcile the timelines in a more scifi, less emotional way. Maybe along the lines of a mind-bending Schroedinger’s cat paradox kind of thing…. ah well.

The LOST writers gave us their story and I’m fine with it. Yes, I wish they had taken a little more time. But most of all, I hope they inspire more good stories, especially since there is a dearth of such on tv!

Listening to the Transmission Monday morning helped me process what we did get for the ending, then I could function at work! damn, that uke made me cry again.

The comments here have been great reading. Unanswered questions are OK. I like mysteries – it will make re-watching more interesting!

Mahalo to Ryan and Jen! and to the YAE community for the intelligent discussions on the podcast and here!

@rascal020978 – Lol. Loved your explanation of expecting rational explanations. Count me in as one who wants the explanations, then when we are handed them (like the whispers) I find myself disappointed.

I posted this already, but these blogs get filled in quickly. Doc Jensen at EW (Totally Lost) has a great recap of the show. I’m including the link again for part 1, and he has now posted part 2. http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946,00.html http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20388269,00.html

– thumbs up!

wow, where did that come from?

Also, really … what scientific explanation would ever address all of the unusual events that happened on the show? If you were insisting on a rational explanation for what happens, then quite honestly, this REALLY wasn’t the show to invest in. While I have read numerous theories and explanations, I’ve yet to read any that address all the mysteries raised in any plausisble manner.

I have been listening to the podcasts since last year, but have only “discovered” the blog entries this season. I have enjoyed the camaraderie and everyone’s insights and even the crackpot theories.

I watched the finale on Sunday night – I was alternatively crying (Sawyer and Juliet’s reunion, the final shot with Jack and Vincent) and shouting out “what just happened” mostly about the on-island scenes. It was action-packed and emotionally compelling without being slurpy. I have to say it was damn fine writing that when Jack, Desmond and Flocke all went together to the light and each thought their actions would have a different outcome.

Up until the point that they got to the church, I was still excited about how they were going to make the two realities fit together as a consequences of the actions taken by the Losties on the island. But then we were told that the FS was really just a reunion of folks who shared some exciting adventures when they were alive.

I was disappointed. Season six showed us this new reality and seemed to point continuously to some kind of relationship between the on-island folks and their lives in the flash-sideways. Not to say that it wasn’t a beautiful episode and I haven’t enjoyed the ride, but I can’t believe that they didn’t make the two worlds have more of a relationship than the FS simply being a reunion of people who had spent important time together while they lived.

I watched it again last night and realized that Desmond’s dialogue with Jack indicated that he thought once he went down into the light he would “flash” into the other reality. Jack basically said no – this is the only reality there is. I guess I should feel better that Desmond had it as wrong as I did. But it does beg the question – in the flash sideways (or flash deadways) Desmond knew that they were in some version of the afterlife, but even though he had gone back and forth between the two realities, when he was explaining it to Jack, he didn’t seem to know that in the alternate reality, they were all already dead.

My feeling after watching it again (and bawling more than the first time) is that it was really an incredible, ground-breaking show. Not just the writing, acting, and directing, but the additional interaction afforded by DVR and the internet. I am happy about the time I’ve spent watching the episodes, listening to all the podcasts (ryan and jen’s are the best, but Geranimo Jack’s Beard is a close second) and reading this blog and many others. It was all incredibly well-done and won’t be easily replicated for some time to come.

Bob, you’re attempting to apply logic to a piece of fiction. Of course some of the things we saw couldn’t happen — that’s why it wasn’t a documentary series.

You’re free to dislike the final season, but disliking it because the things we saw “can’t realistically happen” is sort of like disliking the “Harry Potter” books because those “can’t realistically happen.”

I’ve read this post (I’m from Portugal, so I only watch the show in the day after) and I couldn’t have said it better.

I having trouble letting go.

I think I need my own FSW!

They did die in 815 crash and the island was their personal tests to the sideways:

-Couldn’t live through a crash like that
-no such thing as a magical teleporting island
-cant be a smoke monster
-people cant flash off a plane like in episode 316

I think people don’t want to feel this is true because it would cheapen the story, well too bad its the only logical way to accept this story as it was told. See if i were to believe they were alive since the crash it would make it worse because of the crazy off the wall stuff that happened on the island that just can’t realistically happen.

If they focused on the mythology and used scientific reasoning and answers I could believe they survived and this island could be a place, but no.

I know that Damon has told us to “Let go and move on”. But I’m not ready to do either. I loved the world of “Lost” and I can’t imagine not continuing to be engaged with it in some way. I hope others here feel the same and want to continue the discussions and appreciation, through a series re-watch or just by talking about their favorite characters and themes. I am thinking of starting a blog of my own to look back and explore some of the major themes in greater detail. I hope that there will continue to be an interest in following such endeavors.

And I know Damon and Carlton said they have ended “Lost” and won’t let it be continued in any form, but I truly hope they reconsider this. The “Star Wars” universe has been broadened and further explored by a series of novels, and I would love it if the same could be done with the Dharma Initiative or the history of the Others. Our favorite characters’ journeys may be over, but I still think there is lots of potential for the Island’s history to be explored.

Does anyone else think they might change their minds about this and, if they do, would you be interested in continuing the adventure in some way?

Now I must rush off to work, passing by the video store for some final Michael fare

NOW……. knowing what I just said. How does THAT make you feel about the ending of LOST?

You are right about the fact that Damon and Carleton and the whole of the writers must have know who shot whom on the canoe. If fact, I don’t remmeber where I heard it (may be the Official Podcast?) but they did answer that question directly saying that although they knew who and what was happening in that scene – they felt that answering that question would mean that they would have to write a convoluted way around the main narrative to answer it. I am paraphasing but hopefully the gist of their answer comes through. Perhaps it happened in the past, and they could not return to the 1950s to answer it.

As for the numbers, they certainly were a very big factor in the first couple of years. Did you check out the first ARG that came out after the secons season? I did not play along when it first came out but I did go back to read about it on Lostpedia… I think it was called The Lost Experience. It did give some insight into the numbers.

Ultimately, I guess its about having different expectations, I really did enjoy the mystery aspect of the show and it did keep me busy with theories and analysis but in the end I don’t begrudge them the choices they made in telling their story the way they did. It was a great story, a fun story, a moving story.

But I hear what you say and I can understand how you feel. I hope whatever they have on DVD will get passed around on the net so those that don’t want to spend can get additional resolution. And maybe it is just a case where the writers needed a few more hours – but it would still have to be concluded.

ps : I did follow Prison Break – are you telling me that I have to go rent the final disk to get a better understanding of what happened to Michael?? Dammit

Thank you for being a memorable part of my life for six years

Thanks for the nice things you just said.

I don’t know what makes me more sad, that Lost is over or the Transmission will soon be over.

In your post you said:

“The Loophole scenario: Season 5

We know that when Locke was shot by Ethan (in Because you Left) he tells Ethan then that his name is John Locke and that Ben had appointed him leader;

LOCKE: My name is John Locke. I know this is gonna be hard to understand, but Ben Linus appointed me as your leader.
ETHAN: That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

*** A side note here : This exchange with Ethan and Locke occurred before 2004, before the plane crash and our Losties arrival on the Island – no doubt Ethan goes back and tells Ben that someone named John Locke says that he is our leader and you told him that. This bit of information, should make us rethink the events in season 2 in ia whole new light – the events of the hatch when Ben was captured by Rousseau an brought to the hatch. He wanted to see this Locke person and “played” John Locke against Jack and lied about the button to Locke when he was got under the hatch door. BEN knew all along who this Locke character was and he was afraid of him, and jealous of him and he tested him…. he thought that Locke was special, as mentioned by Ben in front of the church.

Then just after the above encounter Locke flashed to 2007 (although we did not know that at that time) and Richard showed up to tell him that he must bring back the Oceanic 6, gave him the compass and told him he would have to die in order to bring them back…. Richard was acting on John Locke’s (as MIB) orders.

[Richard Alpert emerges from the darkness carrying a torch.]
LOCKE (as MIB): Richard?
RICHARD: Hey, John.
LOCKE: Richard… what is happening?
RICHARD: What’s happening is that you’re bleeding to death. Here.
RICHARD: I need to get the bullet out.
LOCKE: How did you know there was a bullet in my leg, Richard?
RICHARD: Because you told me there was, John.
LOCKE: No, no. No, I didn’t.
RICHARD: Well… you will.
LOCKE: It was Ethan who shot me.
RICHARD: Well… [donning eyeglasses] what comes around, goes around.
LOCKE: Aah! When am I?
RICHARD: Well, John, that–that’s all relative.
……….”

At the time of the interaction between Richard and just-shot-in-the-leg Locke in 2007, it is NOT MIB as Locke — rather it is just Locke. Similarly, when Locke encounters Richard in 1954, he is still just plain ol’ Locke, although he is acting based upon information provided by MIB as Locke via Ricard in 2007 prior to the timeflash taking all of the on-island Losties to the 1950s (“Jughead”).

The only way that MIB could have been acting as Locke during the initial timeflash encounter with Ethan is if he somehow took Locke’s form BEFORE Locke left the island by turning the donkey wheel and stopping the Island in 1974. While possible, this would fly in the face of everything we learned about MIB, specifically that he can take the form of dead people. As Locke did not die until sometime (presumably) in 2007 after turning the donkey wheel, MIB couldn’t have assumed his form prior to Ben murdering him in LA. Of course, further evidence is the fact that Locke was actually shot by Ethan when it was made clear repeatedly during this season that bullets couldn’t harm MIB.

Thus to summarize (as I fear I’ve rambled quite a bit): While I agree that MIB most likely manipulated Ben throughout the latter’s tenure on the island, I think your outline relies upon an incorrect assumption. However, I could be wrong and welcome any corrections.

Namaste.

As for your feelings, as I mentioned yesterday (or maybe the day before)in a post, that is the other part of the problem I have with the ending. Not only were the “answers” to way too many story lines missing, but like you I feel character story lines should be resolved in life, not in death. In death, I believe the character’s story line is automatically ended. Enough said.

In the end, she was given the privilege to shoot MIB and to guide Jack to the church, so that was cool. Even Jen agreed she redeemed herself.

@ Carol and Coolpeace and so many others (I’m still ridiculously behind in my ‘catching up’) ~ Amen to your comments!! I was initially pissed with the last scene (that they were fast-forwarded to DEATH, since I relate more to LIFE), but Ryan and Jen’s podcast and so many comments here have helped me sort out that it was a lovely and okay ending ~ to ‘let go’ and see the splendor of what the Losties meant to each other, how they completed each other ~~ Psychologically (my bent), it is pure and very beautiful

@LReene ~ You have always been such a positive, enthusiastic poster, so I certainly take your criticisms to heart ~ I never wanted ‘details’ or ‘answers’ like you and others did, but I wanted the Losties’ story resolved in LIFE rather than death; I was left dumbdounded and upset. Having the Losties FOUND in death felt like a huge cop-out or at least frustrating. I personally do not want to have to wait for death to find peace, so it was hard to see them only find their redemption this way

Watching LOST and then finding “The Transmission” and YAE has meant the world to me!!! I am still trying to figure out how to join the facebook ‘fan page’ which is so far eluding me. I can get on the site, but can not see where to ‘join up.’

i mainly have 2 strong questions. what happened to Desmond? after he gets dragged out of the cave, he’s gone. poof. he’s not with Jack or Hugo, didn’t get on the plane. just a word would have been enough for me.
which leads to #2. for someone who appeared to at least have intimate understanding of the Island and it’s mechanizations, if not actually being a controlling interest, Eloise was sure given the bums rush. again, it wouldn’t take a lot. a sentence or two.
otherwise, i’m good. i do wish there had been more reasons during the series to put Kate in that little black dress. but hey, thats just me.
oh yeah, one thing i’ve been wondering about. would makeup work qualify for emmy consideration? if so, i nominate whoever it was that gave us the multitude of sweat-stains that have graced Lost over the years. i’m only partly kidding. i expect that some of them were real – i’ve been to hawaii. but the loving care thats been seen.. wow.