Trans 2010-05-19: “What They Died For” (Episode 6-16)


“While Locke devises a new strategy, Jack’s group searches for Desmond.” For this penultimate episode of “LOST,” we’re posting a “shortwave transmission,” a shorter, initial reactions podcast, rather than our usual blog entry. We skip the recap and get straight to our take, then share the first few calls to come in on the LOSTLine. Although we’re less than a week away from the end of this incredible series, we’d still love your feedback on “What They Died For.” Please comment below and join the conversation!

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550 Responses to “Trans 2010-05-19: “What They Died For” (Episode 6-16)”

  1. aaron r says:

    if anyone can help me, who can recommend a cool Fringe blogsite? that’s the only other show that i watch all the time. it’s nowhere as cool as Lost, but what could be?

  2. Embie says:

    I wonder what is in room 23 at the museum?

  3. aaron r says:

    sorry to be a pain, was just reading some new posts. Zoe as David’s mom? Jack’s WIFE? i could understand David ordering Jack not to be weird around her. i think i sure would! i try not to spend too much time getting excited about things i can’t control, but that would seriously piss me off.

  4. Bonita in Atlanta says:

    @ Aaron – I’ve been listening to Cliff and Daryl on The Fringe Podcast, logo is the hand print, found it on ITunes. I think it is just The Fringe but I haven’t spent much time there because of LOST.

  5. Bonita in Atlanta says:

    @ Carol – Thanks! I just bought “What they died for” to rewatch on my Ipod before Sunday.

    @R&J: An idea for a podcast: Lost Finales, we could rewatch and discuss all 6 at once.

  6. Bonita in Atlanta says:

    oops. I mean Clint not Cliff!

  7. Embie says:

    @ Angel – it seems to me that babies conceived off the island but born on the island are special – Jacob, MIB, Aaron, and of course Alex. But in what way I’m not sure.

    The problem seemed to be that a child conceived on the island could not be brought to term. And why not? The infection – whatever it was/is.

    Ji Yeon was conceived on the island, but because Sun left, she could be born elsewhere.

    Children in general are special. Walt in more ways than we know. And let’s not forget Zack and Emma – where are they? – with Cindy I suppose, but we haven’t seen them for a while. I’m guessing they will show up in the finale in some way.

  8. budahwench says:

    sorry if this is a repeat of a point someone already brought up, but i don’t have time to read through all the comments. since across the sea played last week i’ve heard a lot of people say that they thought “mother” (as in the woman that raised jacob & mib) was a smoke monster too. but that’s not possible. when mib became a smoke monster he was seperated from his body & that body died. but when mib killed mother her body was left behind. if she’d been a smoke montser then she wouldn’t have left behind a body when he stabeed her as she would have seperated from it years before.

    michael: i believe the “incident” you mentioned was the electro magnetic incident that occured at the hatch site when they were digging. the incident that jack blew up the bomb to try to prevent. at that point in time miles was a young baby on the island. so although they never say that he was conceived on the island, i believe he was. i mean his father had obviously been on the island for some time working prior to that, so it makes sense that his mother was there with him & he could have been conceived then. also, ethan was born before that incident too. i can’t remember though, did they ever say if he was concieved off island or not?

  9. Embie says:

    Did we ever learn why Jack was asked to put Christian’s shoes on Locke/Bentham’s body? Who asked him to do that? I can’t remember. Anyway I was thinking about Unlocke’s remark that he liked to feel his feet on the ground because it reminded him that he had once been human – is he still wearing Christian’s shoes?

  10. Michael says:

    If memory serves it was Eloise Hawking giving most of the details about how to return to the island. She might have passed some of the instructions through ben. She said they had to approximate the conditions that existed when they arrived the first time. So Lockes body was a substitute for Christians and they needed to put something of christians on him, the shoes.

  11. Coolpeace says:

    @ YAE : Is anyone going to the Lost Talk tonight? I will be going … I’ll try and remember and give a summary. But it is an hour and a half, I don’t think my brain will remember precisely rather general concepts.

    Maybe they will put the talk on the DVD.

  12. Emily says:

    I think Ryan was right when he said “confounding expectations”. It was great to see evil Tina Fey go so quickly. Not at all what I expected but completely appropriate when you consider what the show is boiling down to. Ben as well, with such a complex character and everything else building and building up, you don’t expect Widmore to fall seconds later. Yet it all plays into things beautifully.
    I was surprised that Across The Sea came when it did. It is a big risk to step out for back history so late in the game, but again, just what Lost does so well is ignore convention and push boundaries and as you guys said, it pays off with greater appreciation for the following episodes character moments… Man I will miss the show but i excited to go out with a bang. I will be in Brooklyn with ‘Previously On Lost’. Have you heard of these guys?
    They recap episodes in their songs. Cast members have even come out to see them. Benefits of living in NYC I guess, tons of obsessed Lost fans. See you in DVD land.

  13. LReene says:

    @Coolpeace – I wanted to go to the Times Talk Live LOST event tonight in the worst way. But the nearest theater to carry it here is about 65 miles away, and the wife doesn’t get out of work early enough to even make it on time. So……… Hopefully ABC will either post it on-line, or put it on the DVD set. I’ve already got my Blu-Ray set for Season 6 pre-ordered so……

    @Embie – At least at the time UnLocke was getting out of the Canoe before meeting up with Ben, Richard, etc. in Episode 16, he was NOT wearing Christian’s shoes. Not sure if they left the camera on his shoes for a long time on purpose, but it was sure evident that he was wearing a pair of brown loafers and not the shoes that Jack put on Locke in the casket.

  14. LReene says:

    @aaron r – The call sheet that was talked about in the video has been floating around on the net for several weeks now. I think Ryan even mentioned it in his Podcast from 2-3 weeks ago. To my knowlege, no one ever confirmed if it was legit or just something left as a foiler.

    Due to the tight secrecy of the finale, my guess is that it was just a foiler.

  15. lost in brooklyn says:

    @budahwench: “…but when mib killed mother her body was left behind. if she’d been a smoke montser then she wouldn’t have left behind a body when he stabeed her as she would have seperated from it years before…”

    Right, but we don’t know that she came into the world with that body. She could have shanghaied it ala MIB/Locke style. Right?

  16. Stonetiger999 says:

    Now THAT felt like the penultimate episode of the greatest TV show ever. Can’t fault it.

  17. aaron r says:

    @LReene i doesn’t feel right, thats for sure… i’m not buying it
    @Bonita in Atlanta thanks a bunch, see you there

    2 more days….

  18. steve says:

    You know, with the wall to wall media coverage on Darlton – EW, Wired, New York Times, talk shows, blogs, I really can’t think if they would have anything more to say in the NY Times talk tonight. They must be seriously talked out.

    Anything that was asked, has been asked. I bet they’re looking forward to that media slience after the final show.

    I would defintely have purchased the live tickets as the NY TImes building is an interesting visit in and of itself (beautiful views if you get to the top floor conference rooms but they’re not holding it there), but they were sold out, so I’ll just wait for the recap tomorrow. There will be plenty of people covering it.

    I would guess the only thing they would say that is new is a big reveal after the audience charges them and threatens their lives.

  19. Michael says:

    I think it is possible that Mother was not the smoke monster but that she called on it to destroy the village. We know ben could call on it, why not Mother. If she is the guardian of the light, then it would make sense that the security system is something she can use when needed. Either that or it attacked the village on its own because the men were getting too close. The fact that MIB was left alive though suggests that it was following her orders.
    I also agree that when the smoke monster takes human form, he really takes it! We’ve seen him eating and drinking. Might be something he does to feel human, but he might also duplicate a real body. That might explain “don’t let him talk to you” before you stab him. The intent is that you must take him by surprise before he has a chance to shift partially back to smokey before the attack. Mother was completely by surprise from behind.

  20. Mark@NOVA says:

    Kate was crossed off because she became a mother. But Kate’s number in the cave and lighthouse is 51, which is not on of THE NUMBERS. So if the meaning of the numbers wasn’t a designation of the eligible candidates, what has been the significance of the numbers?

  21. LReene says:

    @Mark@NOVA – Personally I’m not giving up yet on finding out the true significance of “The Numbers”. As much as I admire the writing and the ability of Darlton to spin a good yarn, I believe at this point we have been short changed on all the emphasis that was put on the numbers.

    I repeat from a previous post: “To just say that Jacob had a thing for numbers” and that is all there is to it, well, frankly doesn’t cut it. Anything with that huge of a plot point should at least be explained.

    Hopefully in the finale.

  22. Embie says:

    @ Mark – I don’t know about the numbers and no doubt many folks have figured this out before but I realized today that the numbers add up to 108. The numbers are interesting. 23 is a special number referenced in posts by other commentors. And 4 doubled is 8 doubled is 16. The odd ones are 42 and 15 but 51 is the mirror of 15. I don’t get 42, though we know it can be factored 3*2*7.

    There are 108 beads on the mala used in Hinduism and Buddism for counting chants and mantras. According to legend, there are 108 human passions named by Avalokiteshvara, a multi-armed Bodhisattva, or saint. So it’s fitting that every 108 minutes the button had to be pushed, to remind our losties of their human frailties. Truly, Darlton twins are quite erudite and love to include multiple cultural reference points.

  23. Kait says:

    Is anyone going to the Times Talks Lost event in your city?
    I decided not to go and spend the money. I would just like to know if it is the same old cryptic answers to questions, or real insight into how the writers came to the story. If anyone attends this thing tonight, a report would be awesome!
    Also, do you think it will be included in the season 6 DVD set?

  24. Kait says:

    @ Coolpeace: Ooops, I didn’t see your comment. Just a general opinion of the question/answer format would be helpful… thanks!

  25. Carol from Boston says: reports that there will be an extra 20 minutes on the season 6 dvd set devoted to answering unanswered questions.

  26. Faith Kaplan says:

    @ Michael: Lots of interesting ideas, but I can’t believe that the MIB is disguised as Jacob. Just a little too out there for me. But great comments!

    Thanks Ryan and Jen, for a great podcast. and I don’t know what I will look forward to on Monday mornings when this is all over! It made driving to work a lot more fun! You guys are great, and this is a once in a lifetime show, podcast, experience, phenomenon, and alternate reality. Maybe there is another timeline where Lost continues for another 6 years… that would be great!

  27. Mimi says:

    @ Embie – According to Douglas Adams: 42 is the answer to the ultimate question. We just don’t know what the question is.

  28. Mimi says:

    @ LReene & @aaron r

    Your answer is below.


  29. Tori says:

    Just came back from the NY Times show in a theater… You guys didn’t miss too much except a surprise visit from Michael Emerson and Jorge Garcia– very fun. Darlton did a fair amount of talking about the writing process, which as a writer myself I found fairly interesting, but there wasn’t much in the way of revelation (not surprisingly). They did talk about generally making the choice for character ((who) over whiz-bang stuff (what), and that all the right decisions they made were in that direction. A guy from the audience raised the possibility that the MIB is actually the good guy, as others have been positing… and they didn’t exactly deny it, nor did they confirm it. A big theme they noted was that our characters started out as loners and get redeemed through connection… That made me think that perhaps the island does need to get destroyed, because it represents lonerdom– no man is an island, etc. We’ll see!

    They also showed ay short clip from the finale that wasn’t a spoiler, showing a facedown between Sawyer, MIB and Benry… Basically just showed Sawyer’s toughness and spunkiness.

    Speaking of that, loved the scene in the last epi with Sawyer telling Jack how Jin’s and Sun’s death was his fault…. and Jack saying it wasn’t…. An echo of Jack’s remorse over killing Juliet, but in this case “forgiving” Sawyer rather than condemning him, as Sawyer had done with him…. Another one of those neat reiterations of a theme, that starts to get a resolution.

    Anyhow, it’s gonna be a sad day when Lost is over!

  30. Tori says:

    Oops, Darlton did also say that Star Wars references would be making a big appearance in the first part of the last episodes…

  31. Tori says:

    They also said Walt will make an appearance. And in the clip, there was an interesting allusion to dog’s hair…

  32. paulb, Brooklyn says:

    I wonder if, in the finale, there will be any sort of repudiation of violence. It’s an action show, I know. But Jacob’s admission that his mistake made the MIB the way he is (confirming the discussion here), and you could charge Big Mother with one serious error thinking that she could murder Claudia and then somehow raise the twins as innocents, well, I wonder if the conclusion of the story will say, in any way, enough.

  33. mle in Colorado says:

    @Michael that was the best list of possible “what was up with walt” that I have ever seen. Thank you for taking the time to share it. I never thought he could be smokey. I have thought that he could have been time shifting and also that he was wet because of the tunnels under the island which were waterlogged. He was warning shannon as if he was one of the whisperers.

    Also…they (the casting folks) are dumb if they didn’t know he was about to hit his growth will be cool if they show him and his dog on Sunday!

  34. Sarah says:

    a good laugh inside the studio with Jacob and the Man in Black.

  35. Mimi says:

    @Carol from Boston – Don’t you think that devoting 20 minutes to answering unanswered questions in the DVD is like getting your Christmas presents in August? Thanks for FINALLY getting to that.

    You know, I mean I appreciate their effort I suppose, but if they can’t answer the questions in the run of the series then don’t answer them in the DVD. It makes me think that they are doing it for the money and not because they care.

  36. Carol from Boston says:

    @Tori- Thanks for the movie info. I really wanted to go but I had to work till 8:00 and the closest theater was too far away for me to make the show. I hope they put it on the DVD.

    @Mimi- I am a bit confused about how it will work, I have heard they are adding 20 minutes to the finale for the DVD (must be stuff edited out) and perhaps the answers are in there. Knowing Damon and Carlton it may only be a few questions. I don’t think they are going to sit down and just answer questions. I think they had enough material for a 3 hour finale so I guess they couldn’t include anything. I guess we could think of it as a bonus late Christmas gift from those uncles we never get to see. 🙂

    @Michael and and MLE – do either of you watch SNL and see the sketch with the talk show with the theme song “What’s up with that? Now, because of your comment MLE, my mind keeps singing “What’s up with Walt? What’s up with Walt” with that theme music. lol That would be a great DVD extra Keenan from SNL singing that with clips of Walt.

    HFC, 2 days everyone!! I’ve tried imagining different endings but the reality is that I don’t have any idea of how this will be tied up. WE know the players, we know the stakes but it gets fuzzy on the logistics. If people remember in the flash sideways, how does that change things on the island?

    Anybody rewatching the pilot tomorrow? I wish it was enhanced.

  37. Carol from Boston says:

    This is for anyone who needs a Josh Holloway fix to brighten their day. It is his interview on Jimmy Kimmel, in the second clip there is a 30 second preview of the finale at the end of the interview, it is not spoilerish at all, and Sawyer does one of his classic lines.


  38. Coolpeace says:

    @ YAE :

    I enjoyed the Times Lost Live Talk. Although, some of the questions and answers were previously asked and answered, it was good to see them interacting, both between themselves and the audience.

    There were many laugh out loud moments, and certain insights in the writing and from the writers’ room which were excellent.

    Here is a recap that seems much more detailed than what I could write up. I have not read it – so hopefully it is well written and does not give any spoiler ( they did show us a small clip of the finale – and some audience members ran out prior to it beening played. I was turn, but stayed and it did send my mind reeling, but I can’t say it was very spoilery – but still be careful if you don’t want any information prior to Sunday.)

  39. corivee says:

    @Aaron from Perth: small SPOILER Warning:
    I saw in an interview w damon and carlton that they will not answer the question of who was shooting at the losties in the canoe flash.

  40. steve says:

    Whoa, in the NY Times talk Dark UFO overview, that question that Darlton wouldn’t answer – I agree with Dark UFO – that guy got close to a big reveal.

    If I was at the talk, I might have purposely closed my ears and speak loudly, “I’m not listening, I’m not listening.” I’m glad UFO reviewer didn’t write more on the question.

    Also interesting was the explanation of why in season 1, the Smoke Monster tried to drag Locke underground.

    I’ll definitely be looking to listen to it when it’s out as a podcast.

  41. corivee says:

    @Carol from Boston: Thanks for the Josh H clip. I love him but he kinda laughs like a girl…. Anyway, i love how he talks about how his wife steals the script before he can read it and locks herself in the bathroom reading it. Lucky wife (In more ways than one).

  42. LReene says:

    @Carol from Boston – If I saw the Saturnday night “Pilot Promo” correctly, I believe it IS supposed to be an enhanced version.

  43. LReene says:

    @Carol from Boston – YES! Just saw the promo on ABC again. Saturday night Pilot is shown as being an enhanced version.

  44. corivee says:

    @Patrick (ct) Nice shirt.

    Here is a link to the best Lost inspired shirt I’ve seen
    You can also download free pdf files of Dharma beer labels

  45. paulb, Brooklyn says:

    Holloway on Kimmel show:

    I never noticed those teeth before! He must have enough teeth for several candidates.

  46. Carol from Boston says:

    @Corivee – Josh cleans up nice doesn’t he? I have to admit I would sneak the script too! Thanks for the link for the t-shirt.

    @LReene – thanks for the pilot info, I am glad they decided to air it that way. I had asked Matt Roush from TVGuide Magazine earlier in the week and he had said he hadn’t heard anything about it being enchanced. He also said he isn’t getting an advanced copy of the finale, he has to watch it in real time like the rest of it. I am glad the critics have to wait, that means less spoilers. I am trying to stay spoiler free except for the two ABC clips that don’t really show much. Except for the genius of Sawyer’s wit.

    @Steve – thanks for the heads up re: the dark ufo article spoiler, I’ll read it after the finale.

    re: the pilot – Hurley looks so young!!

  47. Michael says:

    My favorite personal theory up to maybe season 4 was that the whole thing was taking place in Hurley’s head. He was still in the mental hospital and everyone from the beach were also patients. They held group therapy sessions and this is how Hurley knew so much about their lives and incorporated it into his fantasy. “The others” were the doctors and orderlies at the institution. Julliette was a staff there until the death of her sister caused her to lose it and she was committed too. Widmore’s group was an investment group maybe or a set of new administrators who were trying to take over the facility. Once season 5/6 came along, this theory has to go out the window or Hurley is having a major break down!
    2 More Days to enlightenment……..

  48. Amaia says:

    @Angel- Ethan was born on the Island and so was Miles. I think the incident made something and that’s why new mums re in danger on the Island since late seventies.

  49. Carol from Boston says:

    Wow, I really have to read my posts first to edit. I keep noticing spelling errors. Sorry guys!

    @Corivee re: Sawyer’s laugh, I get distracted by his looks and don’t really notice it. What I do notice is that in real life Matthew Fox has a higher voice, they must lower it when editing it on the show. Did you see Matthew Fox doing his magic trick on Letterman. It was funny.

    I have to give all the Lost actors credit, they all have to do these interviews promoting the finale but they aren’t allowed to say anything about the show itself and they are all asked the same questions over and over. It must be so boring for them.

    Carlton and Damon on Jimmy Kimmel tonight.

    One last smile for this morning. “Jacob” visits Jimmy Kimmel and touches him in high school.

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