The “LOST” creative team took a huge risk this week, taking a sharp detour this late in the season and unabashedly plunging into fantastical mythology. And, given the payoff from “Ab Aeterno” earlier this season, we give them a great deal of credit for doing so. But “Across the Sea” seemed to fall far short of that ambition. It was a grand tale, but strayed into melodrama, and told us little that we hadn’t already been told. The good-evil polarization that had thus far developed with Jacob and the Man in Black became ambiguous again. And the one answer to a long-standing question was both overplayed, and underwhelming.
Last week’s episode put into stark relief the fact that our collective hearts are still closely tied to the timeline we’ve followed since season one, no matter how clever or resonant the flash-sideways exercise has turned out to be. Similarly, “Across the Sea” tried to give us insight into the two sides of an epic battle in which our survivors are apparently just pawns… and mostly convinced us that we’d prefer to follow the story of those pawns, rather than pick apart the game.
Yes, there’s something mystical on the island that connects to the very essence of man, or perhaps life. Yes, harnessing or exploiting that power inevitably drives man to destroy itself with greed. And yes, the island and this power has had a series of protectors, and a dark side that cannot be allowed to leave. Seeing all these things explored (and explained) on screen was interesting. But feels unnecessary. Only time will tell whether “Across the Sea” will be a key part of understanding the whole of “LOST,” or a curious distraction.
The character of Mother says that answers only bring more questions… a fact she embodies herself. She, too, was looking for a worthy successor, somewhere among the people who come to the island. What better candidates are there than innocent newborns? She raises two, chooses one, and welcomes her own death once the mantle has been passed. So we’ve now been shown the end of the preceding cycle, and know that “LOST” is leading up to the next transition. So where did Mother come from? And where did this eternal cycle begin? I guess, like a circle, there simply may be no such thing.
And the all important rules? The emphasis on the games that Jacob and the Man in Black made up tonight suggests that “the rules” are not rules imposed upon them by some higher power or construct, but some arbitrary set of restrictions they’ve set for each other.
After tonight, I’m no longer confident we’ll get a coherent explanation for the ultimate nature and overall purpose of The Island. Though “Across the See” makes me think I might prefer things left unexplained.
We did learn that Jacob and Man in Black were brothers, as many had suspected. And the rivalry and ultimate act of fratricide echoes the biblical tale of Cain and Abel. Jacob, the older brother, kills the Man in Black, who was the favored son. (Mother tells the Man in Black that he will never have to worry about death as a child, and she does not deny to Jacob that she loves the Man In Black more.) And we did enjoy the limited scenes the adult brothers had, which made up for the unfortunate reliance on child actors to carry the first half of the episode.
But after the events of “Across the Sea,” its hard not to again feel sympathy for the Man In Black, and question the assertions of Jacob. The Man in Black only wanted to leave the island, to leave the woman who killed his mother behind, and return to his true home, among people. Meanwhile, Jacob was a hapless mama’s boy whose worldview, however validated by Man in Black, was inherited from a woman who basically settled for him and who denied him any choice in succeeding her.
It was nice to learn that the Man in Black was the architect behind the Frozen Donkey Wheel, but now we’re wondering who eventually finished building it? When the wheel was imaged by the DHARMA Initiative in “Because You Left,” was it already assembled? At first I thought DHARMA must have connected the dots that the Man in Black left behind. But then I remembered that the wheel was working when Locke turned it, which was much, much, earlier. (Before, even, the well had been dug?) And why was the underground chamber freezing cold when Ben visited in 2004?
And we did like how “Across the Sea” suggests that “The Purge” of Season 3 was also part of the unending cycle of life on The Island. Perhaps the DHARMA Initiative, like the Man in Black’s people, were getting too close to “the light,” and had to be violently exterminated.
But did Mother destroy the village and slaughter its residents? As well as fill in a deep well and underground excavation? All before the Man in Black woke up? The moment when she slams his head into the wall of the well was violent enough that I could believe she has some kind of superhuman strength. But the scale of the destruction is so great, I couldn’t help think the smoke monster was involved.
But the smoke monster was created when Jacob cast the Man in Black into the light. Right? It somehow released his inner, darker, flawed essence, but left his body behind. A body that provided the form in which the Man in Black appeared (such as in the conversation with Jacob on the beach), until John Locke’s body arrived. And a body that Jacob could recover and leave in the cave with Mother.
And voila, there we have Adam and Eve.
As “LOST” reveals go, we have to be honest: learning the identity of the skeletons in the cave from Season 1 felt pretty hollow. To be fair, though, this is largely due to factors outside the show. It was one of the mysteries explicitly described as key, a reveal that would prove that the creators and writers of “LOST” had the endgame in mind when they introduced them in 2004. That they were a character introduced in Season 5 and his mother? It doesn’t give me the reassurance I was expecting. Locke described them as Adam and Eve. Jack said they were a female and male, and that they’d been there 40 or 50 years. We had time travel. We lost several couples. It would have been just as satisfying had they turned out to be Rose & Bernard, after all.
The anvilicious insertion of clips from “House of the Rising Sun” made the moment even more frustrating. Seriously, if you were a latecomer to “LOST” who didn’t know why it was significant that black and white stones were placed with two bodies laid to rest in a cave… would you have missed much without the flashback?
Last week’s episode felt like an episode of the last season of “LOST.” This week’s episode felt like a distraction. A sometimes beautiful, certainly daring tangent, but one that — at least at first blush — we feel like we could have lived without. We have only one more episode to get us back on track, and a series finale to wrap things up. We’re nervous, but still hopeful. We still love “LOST,” golden glowing caves and all.
- The Man in Black’s lack of a name was already absurd coming into “Across the Sea.” When Claudia says she only picked one name, the whole conceit collapsed into ridiculous. Now we’re hoping he doesn’t have a name at all. It’s hard to imagine any name being satisfactory.
- Seeing Mother smash Claudia’s skull moments after she gave birth was a shock. And, of course, both Jacob and the Man in Black end up getting raised by someone who wasn’t their mother, and both were clearly shaped in their own way by hardcore “mommy issues.”
- Interesting choice to transition from Latin to English fairly quickly during the episode. It wasn’t a “Hunt for Red October” transition, but still noticeable. Especially when Mother switches back to Latin when she pours the wine for Jacob. Was that to show she was speaking a different language that Jacob didn’t understand?
- Mother was tired and said her time was over, and handed things over to Jacob before he was ready. We can only assume she’d been the island’s protector for decades, if not centuries. But what brings about this inevitable decision to find a successor and check out? When Jacob let Ben stab him, was he also grateful for being released of this burden?
- Mother distrusts people, and denies that there’s anything beyond the island. Why? It seems almost as if her kidnapping of the twin babies was part of a weird experiment to see if people could be raised absent evil? After all, they had to ask, “What is dead?” But even without the influence of people, whom the Man in Black lived among, Jacob exhibited jealousy and rage.
- Mother tells the boys that she’s made it so they “can never hurt each other.” Except Jacob easily pummeled the Man in Black as a kid, and ultimately brought about the Man in Black’s death.
- I’m not entirely sure why the golden glowing cave was so hard to find, yet so easy to find. I think we’re supposed to think that its waters are the waters of The Temple, which was probably built to keep people away. Meanwhile, the specific well (of many wells) that Man in Black worked with will end up beneath the Orchid. We did get a little “LOST” geography lesson tonight, whether or not it makes sense.
- If Jack is indeed Jacob’s successor, who will administer his little cup of wine?
- Why was Jacob unable to see the vision of his dead mother, while the Man in Black could talk with and follow her? She says the reason is because she’s dead, but that’s not exactly an answer. Now that the Man in Black is a disembodied smoke monster, he certainly has communion with the dead. But did this ability predate his transformation?
- We were thrilled when we first heard the news that Allison Janey was cast for this episode. And given some of the lines her character had to deliver, its clear the role couldn’t go to a lightweight. (Frankly, the dialogue was often too heavy for even her.) Still, as an actress, she’s almost larger than life, and we have to admit it was a little distracting. It was the closest thing to “stunt casting” we’ve had on “LOST,” and we’re glad they didn’t make a habit of it.
We’d love to hear what you thought of the episode. Please comment below! Or, email us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or leave a brief (about a minute) voicemail on the LOSTline at (815) 310-0808.
@YAE – In regards to last night’s episode “Across The Sea”…….
I did not want to post anything until I read Ryan & Jen’s comments, as well as all postings to date. Wow, a formidable challange, but I’ve made it.
Like a lot of the rest on this board, I was somewhat disappointed. Not completely, just “somewhat”. On the other hand though, like a lot of others here on the board, I still hold out great hope. I am 100% convinced that if done in the right way, the show can still make us all happy with the ending. We may not get all the answers we hoped for, but we will be happy none the less.
Although I wanted to put in the names from above that echo my own sentiments, alas there were just way too many and I can no longer recall who they all were. So I will just try to restate.
I don’t think getting all of our questions answered is the important thing in feeling LOST has been a good ride. As long as in the end, things make sense. Personally I feel right now (especially after last night’s episode) that there are still too many things that DO NOT make sense, and this is what is making a lot of us frustrated.
An example of this “making sense” would be as someone mentioned above, “the numbers”. To just say that Jacob “had a thing for numbers” and that is where they came from, I do not feel makes any sense to most of us and leaves us wanting. So he had a thing for numbers. That doesn’t explain the radio transmission of them we have heard about. It doesn’t explain the hatch having a serial number of the same. And it doesn’t explain why they were used as the code for the computer. Again, to me, it’s not because we don’t know where the numbers came from, it is because the answer we have been given makes no logical sense.
Now as I mentioned in a previous post a week or so ago, if they even showed us a 2 second clip of Hurley recording the radio transmission of the numbers in some obscure time travel he would have done, THAT would have tied it all together and “made sense”. No real answer for the origination maybe, but it would have “made sense”.
Like I said, with 3-1/2 hrs of story telling left, I’m still holding out hope. But like a lot of you, I’m beginning to get frustrated.
I respect the opinion of those of you who are very disappointed with this episode, but, after letting things soak in overnight, I think the episode last night was just about right as far as giving the final word on the mythological history and “meaning” of the island. I suspect we might get another sliver of an answer in the finale (“everyone who has ever been on the island thinks it’s X but the chosen one actually eventually learns it’s Y”), but, even if we don’t, I am satisfied with what last night’s episode gave us.
With all due respect, some of you are complaining about being spoon-fed some answers last night, and perhaps that is distracting you from the answers that were most definitely NOT spoon-fed… the ones that were hinted at, or even subtly and barely proposed.
And, as many of you have pointed out, it’s Mother’s line at the beginning that strikes to the core: “Every question you ask will only lead to more questions.” If we knew how Mother got there, we would wonder about her predecessor. And if we had all the answers about that person, we would wonder about the one before. The implicit suggestion here is that the procession is eternal, or something close. Really, if the writers attempted to tie it all the way back to the creation of the earth, would you have been satisfied? More importantly, though, it would rob the mythology of its power.
What is the nature of the Light? Again, if the writers showed us exactly what it was — either spiritually, or scientifically, or both — it would rob it of its power. The thing that makes it powerful and sacred is that we don’t fully understand it. That we WON’T understand it. Heck, Jacob doesn’t even understand it (or, at least, he didn’t by the end of the episode). That was one of the important answers to me this season; that NONE of our characters (Losties, Rosseau, others, Widmore, Richard, DHARMA, the Egyptians, Jacob, MiB, Mother) understand the true nature of the island. Each group thinks it has answers that others do not, but in the end, they are all in the same boat. Again, my thought for the Finale is that Jacob, in his many years as Protector, HAS learned something more about the island, and he will either pass that on to his successor explicitly, or the successor will become aware of it on his own, making his ascendancy complete.
The other reveal I thought was wonderful in this episode was the understanding of MiB’s history. Sure, we don’t really understand what the Smoke Monster is, if it is actually Jacob’s brother, a different — perhaps evil — entity occupying his soul, or some combination of the two, but we gained something more valuable than that understanding: sympathy for the character. WIth Locke’s lines at the end of “The Candidate,” I was satisfied in thinking that we had resolved his motives. “Ah, he’s evil after all! He’s going to go kill all the good guys.” But LOST repeated a theme: showing the character as an innocent child, adding a depth of character that I can’t imagine getting any other way. Take the scene where Locke, desperately following his faith, is about to hang himself in the motel room. Compare it with the look on his face as Richard, irritated, leaves his childhood home after young Locke failed the test. Take the scene where Ben explains to Ilana that MiB is “the only one who’ll have [him]” and compare it with the look on young Ben’s face pleading with Sayid to take him away from his abusive father, just before getting shot. In my mind I now add the scenes where young MiB leaves his mother and brother, and the one where he is pleading with his brother for forgiveness just before being thrown into the pool of light and being forced into “a fate much worse than death.” MiB isn’t just evil to me anymore — in fact, I wonder if he’s evil at all — and, really, it wouldn’t be LOST otherwise.
And perhaps the quiet flashbacks to “House of the Rising Sun” were unnecessary, but I found it poetic. When Revenge of the Sith came out, the text “A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…” was also unnecessary.
I am ready for a fantastic setup episode next week; I don’t expect a lot of answers, and that’s fine. Then, two and half hours of LOST? I haven’t been disappointed in a LOST finale yet, and I don’t anticipate this one being any different. What will life be like after the finale? THAT’S what worries me.
One last thing that I surprised no one else has mentioned: What was the name of Gary Troup’s novel, again? I know that the ARGs weren’t ever supposed to be necessary to the drama, but I can’t help but wonder if they gave us a bit of an answer way back when and no one noticed. 🙂
I have not watched the episode yet, but just glancing at these posts makes me nervous. X-files nervous. Another show I invested years in only to be left hanging year after year. I eventually gave up on it becasue it had no end.
I hope LOST does not fall into the well like the x-Files did. This show had so much potential and I agree with one of the posts, the writers – undoubtedly told to stretch it out becuase of the good ratings (money) – can not provide half of the answers we all ‘need’ to see.
If we don’t get those answers, then yes still a good show, but it can never be ‘great’ without an ending.
As far as explaining things goes, I think the producers were really on the right track when they compared it to explaining the details behind “the force” in Star Wars. When George Lucas invented the whole midichlorian scanner thing in Phantom Menace, it was so bad that it actually reached back in time 20 years and made the original trilogy worse. Quite a feat. You can acknowledge and explain things without going into the molecular level. The way that Obi Wan explained the Force in the original Star Wars was just fine. We could accept the Star Wars universe like that and it was OK that we didn’t know its origin or molecular composition of force chemicals coursing through our veins.
Yet Darlton take this too far and use it as a lazy cop-out. Its good that they don’t over-explain, but they also don’t go as far as the model of the Obi Wan explanation of the force. Their model is to completely ignore it and justify that by saying they don’t want to over-explain. Frustrating. Oh well.
I am amazed at how many people didn’t like this episode. I LOVED LOVED LOVED IT!! One of my favorites of the entire series.
I got LOST in the episode “Across the Sea” and having yet to re-watch it (I taped it on my ancient vcr ;-)), I didn’t feel disappointed in the whole episode except I could have done without the clips from “House of the Rising Sun”, also. Notice that they left out the part where Jack explains how long it takes clothes to degrade to that point… and I don’t remember the corpses holding hands originally or lying that close together… but I know they were close to each other in “The Lighthouse” when Hurley and Jack revisited the caves on their way to the lighthouse.
As Jack says on The Lost Podcast With Jay and Jack, “A bad episode of LOST is better than anything else on TV” or something to that effect….. and I am dreading the end of the journey, even if it seems (to many) that the path is becoming overgrown with mythos.
Namaste!
I just rewatched the episode. When the MIB is down in the well working, we see Mother watching from a distance. Then we focus on the MIB as he works his coals. The next thing we hear is the clank clank noise that always precedes the smoke monster. Suddenly Mother appears at the bottom of the well. After she knocks out the MIB, she must transport him to the surface, turn into smoke, fill in the well and then kill all of the Others. Without any doubt she had once gone into the light and she was, perhaps, the original smoke monster. We know that to kill the smoke monster you need to do so before it speaks which is exactly what the MIB did to Mother. She was ready and expecting to die. When Jacob pushed his brother into the light, he emerged as a new smoke monster.
Does anyone know what Mother said to herself as she poured the liquid into the cup. She said several sentences. It reminded me a lot of what priests do as they bless communion. Did anyone catch what she said?
Toby in Colorado– Wonderful comments, thanks for sharing– agreed on all fronts! Quick note: If Jack is the final candidate, I’m wondering if part of the reason is that he was a man of doubt, turned into a man of faith. That is, he went through a long process involving life-and-death decisions to arrive at the conclusion that despite everything our rational minds tell us, rationality doth not the whole answer make. But it’s not blind faith– it’s informed faith.
Then again, probably the candidate will turn out to Vincent or maybe Gary Troup (lol).
Re Gary Troup, this from Wikipedia:
like if Jack Gary Troup was a middle-section survivor of Oceanic Flight 815. He is the author of mystery novel Bad Twin and the controversial The Valenzetti Equation. He was one of the people who survived the initial crash of Oceanic Flight 815, but was sucked into a turbine of the plane only minutes after the crash, causing the engine to explode and kill him. In “Pilot, Part 1”, he is portrayed briefly by stuntman Frank Torres, but in interviews revealed on the Internet to coincide with The Lost Experience, he is impersonated by an unknown actor. Troup’s name appears on the wall of Jacob’s cave, suggesting he was a candidate.
I’m sorry but the fan entitlement shown in the blog post really pisses me off. You really need to chill. Stop whining just because Adam and Eve weren’t Rose and Bernard. What the hell good would it have done IF they were Rose and Bernard? It wouldn’t have meant anything really deep – just a pat on the fans’ heads ‘oh hey you got one right’ but other than that no deeper meaning and kind of pointless. I like Rose and Bernard but they weren’t important to Lost, aren’t important to Lost and a reveal like that would have been meaningless.
Adam and Eve being MIB/AJ and his mom points to the greater mythology of the show, and the deeper/ancient history of the island. This is actually IMPORTANT. If it was Rose and Bernard it would have just been like ‘oh hey it’s rose and bernard they stayed on the island. you got that theory right fans’ and then we would have moved on to something more important because really as much as we love RandB, again, they’re NOT IMPORTANT.
The Adam and Eve reveal DOES show that the writers had something deep in mind since season 1. I’m not sure where you get off saying they didn’t. Listen, the whole structure of Lost is to start with the narrowest view available. Cut out all the mythology and just start with the people being brought to the island. With each season, the view of what was going on was expanded little by little until you got to the fifth season, the end rather, and you can really see the PLAYERS that started everything. So it’s like we’ve gone from the molecules, to the organs. Now we’re seeing the bird’s eye view of everything here in season 6, so of course the intricate details we saw in season 1 isn’t really there especially with the island stuff. We’re at endgame now, we’ve got to stop looking at the strokes and start seeing the big picture. The big picture involves Jacob, MIB and their mother. The fact that Adam and Eve relates to them, therefore, relates to the bigger picture. Again this is something that Rose and Bernard simply wouldn’t have been able to provide, as much as I love them.
It seems though that when it comes to revealing answers, Lost can never win. Because people will always be complaining that the answers weren’t the answers they wanted or revealed the way they wanted, etc, etc. And whiny fan entitlement is always the worse part of fandom, though understandable. It’s still grating and ruins the fun. And I think that if people don’t relax they’re going to end up ruining the entire ending for themselves. It’s like Harry Potter all over again. So let’s all just take a breath.
I loved this episode!!!! Feel the history is really important to what is to come! As far as:
“And the all important rules? The emphasis on the games that Jacob and the Man in Black made up tonight suggests that “the rules†are not rules imposed upon them by some higher power or construct, but some arbitrary set of restrictions they’ve set for each other.”
I totally disagree…. I think their “mother” taught them the rules that she was taught and/or passed on certain rules to in the form of what they can and cannot do…. for example they cannot hurt each other…. this was not their rule, and if it were, one would’ve killed the other by now
There has been alot of discussion this year regarding the ‘mirror moments’. I’ve had a chance to rewatch the series from the beginning and have noticed something that never caught my eye until Season 6. I have noticed many of the episodes at some point has a character staring into a mirror or reflection. Alot of times its innocent as someone shaving or something similar, but yet its there. A subtile theme perhaps or just the writers messing with us?
@Kursplat I agree totally re: fan reaction to Harry Potter – that’s exactly what I was thinking!
FWIW I enjoyed last night’s episode. I feel a bit redeemed for having been on Team Dark this whole season (it was only after last week’s ep that I finally conceded that MiB was probably evil after all – but I still had inner doubts ;).
But I’m here to enjoy the ride. Sure, I like to do some theorizing, but I don’t do all that much. I’m the type of person who doesn’t try to figure out “whodunit” when I read a murder mystery 😉 I just let the story unfold.
The three coworkers I talked to this morning all liked it. Two are definitely “casual viewers” – they don’t visit message boards and have only seen a couple of interviews. The third watched seasons 1-5 in about 3 months and finished right before the season 6 opener. So I’m not sure that this episode alienated the casual folk. Probably some, but definitely not all.
@April – One DID kill the other! That’s what I find so perplexing. 🙂
John Fischer: Terrific analysis of the Mother/Smokey issue, thanks!
Adam in Grapevine:
“…So causality(fate) can be manipulated by a human mind. Big surprise reality gets wrapped up in all the screwy cyclical nonsense and warped weirdness of our brains. Even a normal person would eventually cause the destruction of everything given what lurks in our inner chimp psyche… let alone the screwed up issues of those two brothers.”
I wonder if Jack’s abilities as a spinal/neuro surgeon play into this type of issue?
I was disappointed with this episode and almost feel as if any further explanation in this vein will not interest me or convince me of its significance. If this is what the writers had in mind from the beginning, they eitehr missed the mark with the idea or did not present it at the right place in the show’s chronology. I like your synopsis and comments above and agree with almost all of it. So to me, it’s like, let’s get back to “our people” and give them the best ending they can have and solve their issues, forgetting the island. sorry MIB, I don’t think you need to go “home” that bad.
Re the Adam and Eve issue– I don’t think it’s an arbitrary choice, as some have suggested. In the Bible, Adam and Eve ate from the fruit of the tree of knowledge, and were banished from the garden. Mother and MIB both kind of did that (metaphorically). Maybe the island/garden is what’s in our hearts– our original connection to God, love, trust, faith, etc. If we mess around with, overanalyze, abuse, etc., the mysteries– we’re banished from the garden of our own connection to God, the light, etc.
hmmm… not a very good episode this late in the show… the reveals were not epic compared to the deaths in the last episode and frankly…
i’m going to say it…
Expose… was a better episode…
I think Mother turned into the Smoke Monster in order to kill the people and fill up the hole… there’s no other way it could’ve been done so quickly and by just one person…
Someone please help me… the quick scene where Jack, Kate and Locke discuss Adam & Eve and Jack looks at the stones… was that original footage or a recent re-make?
I remember the Orchid construction crew had an x-ray or ultrasound of MIB’s wheel in the “vertical” position. When DHARMA built the Orchid, they must have installed the much more convenient turn-style donkey wheel. The well, the Orchid, the donkey wheel are all in the same neighborhood (in the shadow of the statue). That reminds me, who built the statue?
Mother had some incredible power to kill all those island squatters and fill-in the well. MIB demonstrated how to successfully kill a special person — don’t give them an opportunity to talk, stab. The old 1, 2. Still thinking that it matters whether a dead person gets buried, or not.
Still thinking Jin and Frank are alive. Still thinking…
@April and @ Kate
I don’t think Jacob actually killed MiB – I think he just knocked him out before sending him down the river.
Not sure if there’s any significance to that; I just assumed MiB wasn’t dead (only mostly dead 😉
Or, maybe that’s why (to me, at least) Smokey/fakeLocke seems to have so much more of MiB’s motivations than Locke’s?
Waw! I finally saw it… it was amazing. Mind blowing!
I don’t care about the reveals and everything (and there was so many!).
It was like a shaman travel tonight (and the Lost “Doors” preview accentuated that)… Mystic!
The acting was awesome.
To all those fear they did not had enough answer tonight… go check next episode title.
We have had the magic tonight and I am sure that will have the “science” to back it up in next episode… A lot will be clearer by the time the final happen.
@Lori – But Jacob laid MiB’s body to rest with FakeMom’s, and MiB was most definitely dead in that scene. So whether MiB was dead when he went into the light, or he was unconscious and Smokey killed him, he ended up dead and Jacob was the cause of his death. This really seems to negate everything we’ve been lead to understand about the rules of their relationship.
I do agree that Smokey took on not only MiB’s physical form, but his desires and emotions as well. That element of Smokey’s nature is very interesting, especially as it pertains to Smokey and UnLocke.
@John Fischer About him emerging as the new smoke monster is incorrect. The smoke monster takes his form and memories, but MiB the human does NOT gain a mystical abilty to transform into smoke. The smoke monster takes his memories, traits from his dead body. MiB dies and Jacob finds his corpse.
Like I said: MiB is born, finds the truth about his mom, moves in with the other people. Finds a way to leave the island. Fake mom finds out and prevents it. MiB kills her in a fit of rage. Jacob kills MiB and sends the body down the well. The human being MiB ceases to exist at THIS POINT. There is NO MORE MiB. The smoke monster, which can only take the form of the dead, inherits MiB’s traits and takes his form. Not the other way around.
I have to say that Ryan your review is very thorough……..but for anyone displeased with this episode, I would suggest rewatching it. I felt the same at first but after watching it a second time its like a fine wine. Given that Damon and Carlton wrote the episode, there is truly a double meaning to every line and there are parallels beyond belief. Just rewatch and see if you feel the same way.
perclaw
Maybe this has been discussed before.
In the cave scene when the skeletons were first discovered, it looked like Jack hid the stones from real Locke. If anyone remembers this thread, any speculation as to why if he did?
I’m really surprised, and saddened, by the negative reaction this episode has received. It almost makes me feel like everyone has been watching two entirely different shows all this time. I became a fan of “Lost” because of the “mystical”, even “magical” aspects of the plot. It was clearly hinted from the beginning, through the character of John Locke, that there was something quite unique and important about this island, and I was never expecting – as seem people seem to have been – that it would be explained in a scientific, rational way. Maybe I’m crazy, but if we don’t find out anything more about the cave of light than that “it is the source of all things”, that will actually be enough for me, because like God or the Big Bang or the soul or any other really big mystery – sometimes there are no answers. There is only what each person imagines and believes to be true. And I love that. I am a person who wants to think that there is “something more” to this world, to existence – something more important than our everyday lives. Whether or not I understand it doesn’t matter to me. It’s the existence of this “something more” that is important.
I have no problem being removed from our regular characters for one episode to get a glimpse of the bigger picture. I think it has only made the story of how the island and the job of being a Candidate will effect our Losties that much more interesting.
Or maybe, to be blunt, I didn’t mind being away from our regular characters last night because a part of me has felt kind of bored by them at times this season. Don’t get me wrong, I love them dearly. But it has seemed to me that much of their stories this season – with the exception of Jack and Desmond and Richard – have been filler. There hasn’t been much character development, and some of my favorite characters – Ben, Sayid, Sun and Jin, even Sawyer to some extent – have been underused or given very little to do (up until the moment of their deaths, in Sun, Jin, and Sayid’s cases). Other characters have been simply disposed of (Ilana and Frank) with no development or answers about their significance at all. So a part of me feels like, for most of our characters, there is nothing left to do but come to the big, climactic end when their fates will be revealed. Then, and only then, do I think we will see more of the surprises we have come to expect from these characters. For that reason, I didn’t mind a detour to better understand the motivations and histories of two characters whose secret influence has shaped the story we have been watching for six seasons, and who have and will make a huge impact on our longtime, beloved characters.
I’m not sure if people are upset about it, or just haven’t realized it yet – but this is the same story we have all been watching all along. (Not to say that Damon and Carlton have had this story in mind all along – I’m not sold on that). The island’s power, its effect on the lives of ordinary human beings, faith versus science, and Smokey’s escape – all of these things tie in with our Candidates and their journeys, their choices, their relationships with one another, efforts like those by the Dharma Initiative to try to make sense of it scientifically, and efforts by people like Locke and Eko to understand it spiritually. This episode actually made these connections clearer to me. But then again, maybe that is because I like the mystical, mysterious nature of this show better than the scientific, rational side.
Adding to my last post to say that I was not directing my comments to anyone on this board specifically, just generally to some of the criticisms I have read on the web.
@Craig – I have to disagree. I think that the smoke monster was created the moment MIB went into the light. It is a combination of the island’s power and the soul of the MIB whose body, granted is dead. The smoke monster can change form to look like any dead person, but his persona is that of Jacob’s brother. All of his motives, wishes, aims are the same as Jacob’s brother. He’s just been transformed. I don’t believe for one second that the current smoke monster existed until MIB’s body hit the light. Likewise, as I said, I think that Mother was also a smoke monster. She knew what would happen if a human entered the light which is why she warned the boys. It had happened to her. Her version of the smoke monster died when she was stabbed before she could speak to the MIB. The mere fact that she was able to fill a deep well and kill many people in a few hours if proof enough for me that she was also a smoke monster herself.
Ryan, you are more patient than I. I thought that last night’s episode was a snooze-fest … Cain and Abel in neon letters from about four minutes into the show. At this point, are we really surprised about fluctuating good and evil? Neither of those characters is a patch on Ben, easily the most complex character in the show, and I resent this little side-show so close to the end. After the emotional turbulence of the previous episode, this was a misstep.
@John Fischer wrote: Jacob sets his own rules, plays his game and brings many, many people to the island. Why? I don’t think he’s looking for a replacement. He’s looking for the one person or group of people who ultimately can put an end to all of this insanity. He’s looking to put an end to the island once and for all. We all have been led to believe that the candidate is to replace Jacob. We’ve fallen into the wrong trap.
I think you are on to something here.
@Bill – I think it was original footage. I sped through some media web magazine that asked whether actors get paid for shows in which they appear but use old footage.
Thanks, Jesse. I liked your comments. I liked the episode. I think the question I’m left with now is what is the smoke monster. We learned WHO it is, but not WHAT. Also, there is a lot of growth between the Jacob we saw last night and the one we saw on the beach. Obviously, time has provided some answers.
From the glyphs in the temple, the egyptians that lived on the island thought of the smoke as Anubis or a god. that leads me to think the smoke was seen before… but maybe not.
Also, is this just a big round where Jacob gets somebody to replace him and that person looks for somebody to replace him? “It only ends once, everything before that is just progress.” No. There’s an endgame in mind. What is that end game? That is the last answer and the only one that matters.
The most important line in the episode was Mother’s “Don’t ask me any more questions, it only leads to more questions.” Darlton was saying, the questions aren’t the point, the linear story of our Losties was the point. Just like life doesn’t give you all the answers, LOST wont either.
Thanks Ryan and Jen. We’ve never met, but you’re friends. I’ll miss our lost discussions.
The light is basicly the Well of Souls:
“According to pre-Islamic folklore, the well of souls was a place where the voices of the dead could be heard along with the sounds of the Rivers of Paradise; the cave is now known to have no exit apart from those leading to the surface of the Sakhrah, and the sounds have been argued to be a resonance effect similar to hearing the sea from seashells.”
This would explain what Michael told Hurley that the voices they were hearing on the Island (whispers) are indeed the voices of the dead who are “trapped” on it.
She is basicly the protector of the Well of Souls as it harbours Life Death and Rebirth (as Mother spoke of the Light) of all things on our world. One could argue that once the corrupt MiB (after murdering his fake mother) entered the Well of Souls he became Death in the form of the Smoke Monster. With Rebirth you could take a look at Jacob, while being dead he will ultimately be reborn through Jack as the new Protector.. The question would be, what is to resemble Life?
Hi everybody:
I liked the episode, it wasn’t as epic as I expected but it cleared many things and I was right! They are brothers. I feel bad about the MIB I like him more than Jacob and he was a nice kid who became bad because they made him to became in that way. He only wanted to leave the Island, but his “mum” wanted him to stay there. Poor guy.
Now I’m wondering if this will end. As Jacob said “it only ends once” but if Jack has to be the replacement of Jacob to protect the light, that means the game will star again?
Allison Janney was great in my opinion and the answer to the skeletons was very god, better than both the whispers and Christian.
I think “Mother” was both the protector and smokey. When she hit MiB in the head down in the well, I think she transferred smokey to him (after she destroyed the well and killed all the people). Only when Jacob killed MiB and threw him into the light was it released.
Well, I guess we now know how the sideways universe was created. The bomb must have struck this light, which is the source of birth and death. Now we also know why the sideways universe is not supposed to be.
Did anyone catch that right after Boy in Black asked Mother “What’s dead?”, he and Jacob were hunting? I found that hilariously inconsistent.
I think the epiosde would have went over better if they told the tale in several flashbacks, one Jacob’s perspective and the other from MIB, over several episodes. One enitre episode without any original lostie or something to tie back to, was too much and was expecting too much from just the average fan. Losing over a million viewers from the first half to the second of the episode, when LOST normally gains viewers as the program airs, is a clear indication the episode did not go across well.
@Ryan- I agree, the flashback footage was very stupid.
@ShutupTim = Shh, don’t tell anybody else here but I liked Expose, too!
@Diana- Great thought. But hope the sideways universe is the one will be permanent.
The Voice Of Jacob’s and MIB’s “Mother” Was Obviously Dubbed By Katey Segal (Helen).
This was certainly not my favorite episode, but I do not think I am bothered by it as much as many other folks are.
From my hazy recollection of ancient history, twins were believed to have a certain amount of power, and I think the individual who pointed out that ‘Mom’ starts down a different path with birth of MIB is right on the money. Furthermore, I believe that once she makes that decision they both become ‘candidates’ and by the rules of the island, they cannot be killed. That does not mean that they cannot be harmed — it simply means that they cannot be killed. When Jacob becomes the island’s new protector, MIB is no longer a candidate and can be killed.
Now I know that there is line where ‘mom’ says she has set it up so that they cannot harm each other, but I think that is just a red herring, and is more along the lines of ‘I raised you to not hurt each other…’
Jacob becomes the islands new protector by making a choice and I think the wine is nothing more than the physical embodiment of a mental choice. The ‘ritual’ of drinking the wine shows that the choice is real and not physically forced so that whatever benefits/detriments the island’s protector enjoys can be transferred to the new protector. I believe the protector can extend some of these benefits to others and that only the island’s protector (or successor) can withdraw these benefits.
One example of a potential benefit is that smoke monster cannot directly kill a candidate. It could be that the smoke monster and ‘mom’ are two different things, but that the island’s protector can control the smoke monster. Then when MIB is shoved into the light the smoke monster becomes MIB and gets, to a certain degree a will of its own, but must still obey the dictates of the island’s protector. Furthermore I would argue that the smoke monster cannot kill unless directly threatened or unless the islands protector directs/allows it to kill – thus the smoke monster must manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. Once Jacob was killed, the smoke monster would be left with a group of candidates that he never received permission to kill. Furthermore since it seems to be that the candidates and the island’s protector anchor MIB to the island he must manipulate things so that they are killed.
As far as the donkey wheel goes…MIB is not gone and everything suggests that island has had multiple visitors. He certainly could have inspired others to install the donkey wheel. Furthermore, Jacob could have had it installed so that he could pull his off island shennigans.
In regards to the lighthouse and the statue….2000 years is a long time…certainly enough time for other people to come to the island and build both.
Personally I think there are enough pieces to explain most things, the real question is if any of us are putting the pieces together correctly.
I’m pretty sure the beach location where Mother talks to the Boy in Black and later to Jacob, is the crash site for Oceanic 815.
Unlike everyrone else, MIB and Jacob have no “Daddy Issues”. Or maybe in the final episode, we’ll be introduced to their sorry-ass dad.
It would really make my day if at least one other person out there besides myself thought Mother was the same actress that played Clarissa’s mom on “Clarissa Explains It All”.
Every great story has a great villain, and a great villain has to have motivation. This is where Lost is failing, in my view, as it enters the homestretch.
“Across the Sea” was supposed to explain Locke’s motives, but all we saw was MIB wanting to leave the island because, 1. He felt betrayed by a mother who had been lying to him, and 2. He felt like he didn’t belong on the island. Sounds like teenage angst to me, not evil incarnate. Sure, now he’s also mad at Mom for killing his friends and blocking his escape, and mad at Jacob for sending him into the light, but how does this explain MIB/Smoky/Locke’s motivation for the cold-blooded killings in “The Candidate?”
I’m really hoping that Smokey existed prior to MIB, and has more motivation for villainy. Because if it’s all about Jacob’s brother desperately trying to get off the island and go to a “home” he’s never known and killing our beloved characters to do it, I’m not buying it.
C’mon, guys, give us a good villain with real motives!
Jacob did not kill MiB! Only separated him from his body. We got a clue about this in “LA X”:
JACK: Coffin was supposed to go on the plane in Sydney, but it didn’t. Apparently he’s somewhere in transit which is their way of saying, they have no idea where the hell he is.
LOCKE: Well, how could they know.
JACK: They’re the one’s that checked him in, I mean they’ve gotta have some kind of tracking system.
LOCKE: No I’m not talking about the coffin, I mean how could they know where he is. They didn’t lose your father, they just lost his body.
@Maikeru (8:58am): I said the same thing earlier (4:56am) and even quoted the same wiki passage. Parallels even in this forum. lol
Great minds think alike. 😉
Hey guys,
This episode disappointed me in the way it was handled and less with its subject matter. The dialogue felt clunky, the child actors couldn’t hold their own and the pace was generally static.
On a side note, I’ve been reading the Watchmen graphic novel. I’ve been noticing several parallels between it and Lost. This may not mean anything but I thought it was interesting.
In one of the “journal entries” in the comic, there is this passage
written about what happened to Dr. Manhattan:
“Despite the absence of a body, a form of electromagnetic pattern
resembling consciousness survived, and was able, in time, to rebuild
an approximation of the body it had lost.”
Sounds just like the smoke monster, doesn’t it? Also, it’s interesting
to note that Damon Lindelof has a quote praising the comic on the back.