Jack was really different in the FS. Almost angelic, so kind and loving toward Locke, you could feel how deeply he really wanted to save him. And th exchange with Bernard really shows him starting to question the coincidences of running into all the flight members. The way he shook his head in amazement that Bernard too, was on the flight reminded me of the unsettling creepy feeling I get when I have a lucid dream. I don’t know if anyone is familiar with this but it happens to me every so often. My dreams are like movies with me as the main character people and places from my past pop up in nonsensical ways, as in all our dreams. But then every once in a while I take a look around and slowly realize I am dreaming but I don’t wake up right away. This gives me a chance to explore, talk to people, and do all kinds of things I cannot do in reality. I dont think LOST is going to end as a dream but I do think, like a lucid dream, the flash sideways is going to allow the characters some opportunity that they wouldnt otherwise have. What, exactly, I dont know. But it will be fun to watch them realize both realities and see what they do with that knowledge. As to which one is real. I believe they are both just as real.

Some other things:
1. Music Box: If my long lost dead dad left me a mysterious box, I wouldn’t just open it, look at it and toss it to the side. I’d be looking for some meaning, hidden compartment or something.

2. Sayid’s death: it was necessary for his redemption, To: BlahBlahBlah. He was a murdering torturing evil man, who changed once he found love, but still has guilt and fear that he will suffer in the afterlife for his evil acts against mankind SO he is hoping to offer the ultimate sacrifice to show his repentance. Sayid also knows Jack must live and he doesn’t know about the rules, so he blew himself up also to save Jack.

3. Why is Kate not a candidate? Maybe this has something to do with her raising Aaron. She was crossed off because she had to fulfill that destiny. Aaron is important for some reason. He has been since season 1 when the others kidnapped pregnant Claire. I still think Aaron is the bloody boy. He is the reincarnation of something. Maybe?

4. Sun and Jin speaking English: This was distracting to me, as others have posted, because there is just no way they wouldn’t be speaking Korean in a moment of stress like that. I don’t really get why they would shy away from subtitles when we had an entire episode in Korean. But, I am going with the writers here, that although not entirely realistic, they probably filmed it both ways and then just decided to put in the one Korean line rather than have subtitles as a compromise. I bet I would have cried if it had been subtitled.

Can’t wait for tonight! I am ready for a LOST mythology lesson.

There is a lot of explaining to do in the next few episodes to sort all this out.

One connection that has to be sorted out is Locke’s. In the Island reality he is dead and the MIB has only assumed his form, not his body. So, what purpose does the Jack/Locke realationship have? Why did Locke say re:Helen “I was going to marry her.” If Locke is dead just how can he influence the game on the Island?

About the game that Jacob and MIB are playing in the teaser for the coming episode, I now suspect it might be Senet, an Egyptian game in which oblong stones or counting sticks (black, white) are used as dice – you throw them and depending on how they land (flat side or round) their numbers add up to 1 through 5.

@Nuckin Futs – right, I need to get a life.

And I’m sorry to all who experience deep grief over the loss of Sun and Jin, but turning it into a mini-version of The Poseidon Adventure ruined it for me. Believe me, I would have loved grieving over the loss of two of my favorite characters. I was actually angry that it was handled so cheesily. The writers are better than that. And the actors/characters deserved better.

Home from work today with a killer sinus headache, am contemplating making it worse by watching some more of season 5. After all figuring out all the mythology might make my head hurt even more.

Same logic with him giving it to Sayid, a loophole, since he wouldn’t be knowingly killing Sayid, Dogen got him to do it like UnLocke got Ben to kill Jacob.

I think that’s why Jack’s logic would have held true and the bomb would not have gone off if no one did anything to it, like the dynamite fuse going out in the black rock.

When Sawyer pulled the wires, in a way he activated the bomb. So everyone in the sub was at risk except Sawyer?

So there’s been many places guns have come from.

I always assumed that most of the guns came from the Army group that brought Jughead as well as anything that the Dharma folks brought with them. And after the purge, the others inherited them.

I have read alot of posts that think Sawyer will replace MiB, but I don’t really see Sawyer as pure evil that needs to be contained. If anything, MiB stays as Locke forever, and one of the remaining losties takes over for Jacob. As many reveals this season have shown us, the simplest answer is usually the right one.

Just assuming the box had a gun, it could have held anything and for all we know Ben had it in his bag when boarding the plane.

I agree fully about the guns. There are way too many guns and explosions in this show. As I have said before, how does one island in the middle of nowhere come to have so many weapons? Oceanic 815, had one gun that belonged to the Marshall, and since then they have multiplied many times and even over time flashes. Hurley is the only one who hasn’t shot anybody yet.

But…because Locke while time traveling mets, Ehtan and Richard and telling one that Ben appointed him Leader and telling the other (Richard in 1954) that Jacob sent him and that he was from the future and would become their leader…

Then, perhaps these two Ethan and Richard – mention Locke to Ben, tell him that Locke is special and was sent by Jacob. Therefore, Ben took upon himself the task of baiting Locke and testing him with the request to kill Anthony Cooper to see if he really is Leadership material. Of course, Locke fails this test initially and with the intervention of Richard gets Locke to have Swayer kill Cooper as seen in The Brig.

I know, I know … nose bleeds

As I am writing this, another thought comes to mind. When Ben is baiting Locke with the request to kill Anthony Cooper, he says that it is a scarfice that the Island demands (I need to verify this)…

This makes me think about the Purge and perhaps that was the test that Ben had to past to become Leader … Ben does become Leader right after the Purge and he bans Widmore from the Island for breaking “the rules”.

And please help me remember, did he shoot Desmond because he was trying to kill Widmore’s daughter in revenge? or could it have something to do with Desmond’s importance?

and just to vent…..
If I hear guns cock one more time on this show though, I’m going to scream. Someone said it, and I think they’re right, the gun cocking is the new WALT!/Is Jin Here?!

Besides, speaking of cliche’s if Ben had a gun, wouldn’t he carry it like everyone else on the show and stick it in the back of his belt? He’s not as rough and tumble as Sawyer, Anna lucia, Jack and Kate, but even Juliet never used a holster!

@Nuckinfuts – Maybe we’ll find out next week about Ilana and Bram.

Can’t wait for your Podcast tomorrow on 6-14. Highlight of my week!!

@Julie and Rus – no spoilers please. I don’t want to know Kate’s fate yet.

@Coolpeace – my head is hurting again, lol. I agree that Ben must have remembered them all from 1977. But with Ben those lies could have been lies or truth. He knows to maniuplate John you just have to make him feel special and important and you’ve got him. But on the other hand, Ben has made a point several times to say he is protecting them.

For instance supposedly all the people Sayid killed were threats to the Oceanic Six. In the lighthouse when Ben is driving Sun and Ben to the lighthouse and they start complaining about how far he is driving them and about how he better be telling them the truth, Ben gets fed up and pulls over. He goes on and on about how they don’t know how much he has done to protect them and that he is on their side.

Ben makes my head hurt. We just never know when he is telling the truth and Eloise even says that everything Ben says is a lie, as does Ilana. I think Jacob knew all along that Ben couldn’t be trusted but held out hope that he could be redeemed.

@Carol and others about the start date of the time shift for FS being linked to the disappearance of the island, didn’t the island disappear more or less at the same moment the freighter blew up? that’s too recent. Or have I got that wrong?

In the teaser for next week’s episode Jacob and MIB are playing a game with oblong stones. Anyone know what game that is?

Given that MIB set in motion the Loophole by sending Locke to 1954 (willingly or by accident – did MIB control the time flashes?) to meet Richard Alpert for the first time and Locke telling Alpert that Jacob sent him and that he would become their leader…

Does that make the description of what Henry Gale, aka Ben, thinks as Jacob …”Because the man in charge — he’s a great man, John, a brilliant man — but he’s not a forgiving man.” REALLY MIB.

In other words, have the Others inadvertingly since 1954 been in service of the Man in Black?

The Lost writers are like magicians that distract you with one thing so that we would notice the important stuff that would help us understand the trick. They are tricksters, i say.

@ dockjm : thanks for the kind words, I do enjoy “going back” and checking what was laid out in previous episodes and verifying the mythology by deconstructing the story.

And here is another gem that my little exercise above in reseaching the Loophole unveiled. It will also help those of you who seem to be somewhat upset about how Lost seemingly changed from being about our Losties to being about MIB and Jacob.

The following dialogue will, IMHO, prove that at the time of the introduction of HENRY GALE, aka Ben Linus, back in season 2 – the writers were setting up MIB’s LOOPHOLE.

In the episode from season 2, Two for the Road, John Locke asks Henry Gale why he tried to kill Ana Lucia but not Locke when he was pinned under the trap door, the following dialogue ensues:

GALE: Because you’re one of the good ones, John.
LOCKE: What? Good what?
GALE: None of this matters. I’m dead anyway. The doctor’s gone to make a trade and we both know he’ll come back empty-handed and then I’ve lost my value. So either Jack comes back here and kills me or my people find out where I’m being held and they do it.
LOCKE: Why would your own people want to kill you?
GALE: Because the man in charge — he’s a great man, John, a brilliant man — but he’s not a forgiving man. He’ll kill me because I failed, John. I failed my mission.
LOCKE: What mission?
GALE: When that woman caught me in her trap I was on my way here, John. I was coming for you.

Although ‘GALE’ does not mention Jacob by name, we now know he was referring to Jacob. Could our pre-eminent liar Ben Linus have been telling the truth on this one occasion? He came looking for Locke because he was told by both Ethan and Richard that a man named John Locke was brought to the island by Jacob. Ben probably wanted to see who this man was and what actual threat he posed to him as leader. Seeing Locke as perhaps somewhat vulnerable, Ben thought he could manipulate Locke and was doing a good job at it until the “Help Me” situation in the cabin. As of that moment Ben saw Locke in another light – a bigger threat and in fact perhaps as truly chosen by Jacob.

We now know that by that time, our Losties had traveled in time and had interacted with Richard Alpert and the Others. The Others knew about our Losties, that is probably why they were able to compile all those files and their histories… Faraday tells Eloise and Locke and Swayer tell Richard that they are from the future. So the Others knew about our Losties, but our Losties did not know about the Others because it had not yet happened to them.

In the episode, Because You Left (season 5), during one of the time jumps Locke gets shot by Ethan, we don’t know what year it is but Ethan is an adult, we can surmise that it could be a few years prior to the Oceanic crash:

ETHAN: Who are you?
LOCKE: My name is John Locke. I know this is gonna be hard to understand, but Ben Linus appointed me as your leader.
ETHAN: That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

In the episode, Jughead, in the year 1954, Locke walks into the Others camp to see Richard Alpert and give him the compass that Richard had given him (by MIB in 2007 – see my post above about MIB’s loophole if you want greater detail) and to get further instructions on how to leave the island, but in doing so Locke tells Richard that he was sent by Jacob – which is not really the truth.

RICHARD: That’s enough! Who are you?
[Richard approaches from one of the tents.]
LOCKE: [Sighs] My name is John Locke.
RICHARD: Is that supposed to mean something to me?
LOCKE: Jacob sent me.

Locke then tells Richard his date of birth and tells him to test him for leadership, and of course we know that Richard did indeed try and administer the leadership test but Locke failed…

Nevertheless, all this to say that Richard must have perhaps mentioned this to Ben, if not in the early years of Ben tenure as leader, certainly when Locke showed up on the Island .

We also know that Locke wanted to join the Others, Ben manipulated Locke into blowing up the submarine and later brought him into their camp after they left the barracks. Locke encounters Cindy, the flight attendant, who tells Locke that the Others were very “excited” about him being there, and that they have been waiting for him.

Obviously, Richard must have said something to the Others about Locke. It is at that point that Ben tries his final play on Locke by asking him to kill Anthony Cooper who was tied to a tree…

and the rest is history

@Gene – hmm, what do we know, not much but we do know this.

All the candidates are flawed individuals, with weaknesses that can be exploited and all the candidates seem to need redemption. Once redeemed, their value to the island seems to be over and they die. Why?

What we don’t know, is why the candidates are flawed? Shouldn’t a candidate to represent good, actually be good?

This show is like being with a 3 year old child. Everytime a question is answered, there are even more questions to answer.

I can tell you that I ain’t the genius here. However, I wouldn’t be opposed to being the spark that sheds a little more light on someone’s insightfulness.

We at least need some basic tenets. What do we agree on?

Kate is smokin’ HOT!

That’s a good beginning. We can build upon that!

Hurley, Kate, Jack, and Sawyer were the four of our Losties left on the beach after the sub sank. They were also the four people on the list that Michael brought back to the Others. Do you think there is any correlation there? Did Jacob give Ben a list of people to bring back…only Ben used them for his manipulative purposes (getting Jack to do the surgery)? Did Jacob know all along that these would be his “final four”?

When the Man In Black fell in the water I think he lost his ability to transform into the smoke monster. That’s why he shot at Widmore’s people with a gun instead of just turning into the smoke monster and killing them.

You ain’t got a game when a side can change the rules. I see that result as chaotic… unless two players have agreed to abide (or, are bound) by the whims of a third party . I’ve always thought of Jacob and Esau as brothers with differing personalities. I’ve always thought of them as being watched. Not necessarily judged, but watched. And the only logical overseer would be of a parental nature. Or, the entity that gave rise to their entities.

I believe, though, that this story is multi-layered and multi-faceted. It depends on how you look at it. It also depends on how deep you look. It depends on who is looking at it. That’s just the start. Then you filter that through your own existence. Relate it to your own experiences. You adopt or adapt.

Everyone will see the same thing, but there will be myriads of interpretations.

Personally, I don’t think the limits of where the story is filmed, the tight deadlines, or anything along those lines have anything to do with it. I have not only been there to see the filming up close and personal, but we have ALL seen the results of carefully laid out filming and scene editing to tell the story they want us to see. So, I just have to believe that the quick shifts from day to night to day again are on purpose (they are trying to tell us something with the shifts). What is the purpose, and what are they trying to tell us? Haven’t figured that one out yet. But I think it will be revealed.

@ Carol I like your Lighthouse Dice idea. “Love Power” could be another variable that affects play. Desmond is special and the Rules don’t apply to him and we are painfully aware there are loopholes.

Going back to Alex as regards Rule Breaking: When rules are broken there are consequences if not outright penalties. Widmore may be paying the price or have sacrificed up front to be allowed to do so (eg his poor relationship with Penny and/or Daniel’s death)

The Loopholes may create a whole other set of conditions or rules in motion.

I wish I could write as lucidly as many of you do but these ideas just pop into my head while I’m reading your posts and sometimes my responses just spill out.

Final thought on this: much has been made about the changes in light/dark (as in day/night). Some say this has just been the limits of where the story is filmed and tight deadlines. Ok. But what if this just lends support to the Island as the Game board idea and as the final moments of the game are played, the intensity increases and the conventions of time are less important?

@Ebmie – could be, haha.

I guess the flaw in my theory is if the whole “theme” is supposed to be the power of love as revealed earlier with the Desmond episode. Love has to be what destroys MIB. Not sure how that would happen.

@gene- yup, you are probably right, as I have said in the past I have a feeling the whole ending is something so surprising none of us thought of it. That is the genius of this show. The writers use the whole “What if” scenerio and they don’t worry about it having to make sense or be rooted in reality. Sometimes I get caught up in the little things, I’ll buy Smokey as Locke but I’ll look at Locke’s hospital room and think, wow, that is too big to be a real hospital room.

As for answers, I’m counting on not getting many final answers – it’s more fun to dwell in the mystery. The native American author and teacher Paula Underwood Spencer describes this well as follows:

” One of the attitudes taught in my tradition is the Rule of Six. The Rule of Six says that for each apparent phenomenon, devise at least six plausible explanations, every one of which can indeed explain the phenomenon. There are probably sixty, but if you devise six, this will sensitize you to how many there may yet be and prevent you from locking in on the first thing that sounds right as The Truth. . . . ”

So much fun reading your ideas, YAE!

“Okay Lost experts – do you think this is plausible, the Flash Sideways is real and the island is the alternate reality? The people in the flash sideways are starting to remember the alternate reality, a game they already played.”

————

I’ll do you one better and throw out another crazy theory, what if all the flashbacks we’ve been watching for the first 4 years were also fake?

But hey! Eleven collectible EW Lost covers, and we get Claire BUT NO DESMOND??? Hellwittit! I want my Dharma jumpsuit. And while we’re on cultural tie-ins, am I the ONLY one not knowing that Ben’s Daddy, Roger Linus, is UNCLE RICO (Nap Dyno)???!!!

Now what do you mean by “the big one”? The final battle. Part of me dreads the ending of this show, part of me can’t wait to finally have some answers!!

As for what it actually was that FLocke removed from the overhead, I guess anyone’s guess is as good as another. But I also heard what sounded like it being “detached” from something in order to be removed. Maybe from the wiring. Maybe from something else. Hopefully we will find out before it’s all said and done.

@Carol from Boston – “The Lighthouse Wheel is the dice”……… you just might be on to something.

Yes, you have a thread caught in your teeth. The Alt v Island realities are related, but as dream to reality (said they wouldn’t, but we know how THAT goes), or as a shared consciousness deeper than random dreaming and uniting our Losties in an as yet to be revealed fashion.

You are dead on in noting the ALT-verse begins far before the flight of OC815. I have been under the impression since the very beginning of this season that the ‘island under the sea’ reveal is the biggest of all. Yet, for a variety of reasons cataloged here and elsewhere, we know Jughead was not a direct cause in sinking it.

NOR do we know that the bomb ’caused’ the ALT-verse. WE became aware of it in a fashion temporal to the ‘explosion’, but it may have been there, running, all along. Outside of sending our ’77 Losties to the present, what DID Jughead do?? Daniel? DANIEL??!! Where did you go? You’re holding out on us, and sending Des to the Stadium for a Pen meetup and a good faint is insufficient! You were getting your consciousness tied around blowing up a big one, and – poof – you’re relegated to off-screen matchmaker!?

Yes, the ALT-verse far predates the crash of 815. It may be it has been spinning all along, and if so, what caused the reality diversion of our island Losties? We know Desmond slipped up in the hatch, but the poor boy had been there for three years. (etc, etc) So, that reality well predates the crash as well.

Where is the origin of the divergence? Such minds as we have on this site, such intellects! Your help is thoughtfully and thoroughly appreciated. Me? I think the answer is part of the thread we seek. The Big one.

Whatever it is….
Why was it on the plane?
Why did MIB want it? It seems like the real purpose of his trip to the plane. By removing it did he sabotage the plane somehow and render it useless?

Reading these posts and then rewatching, it’s like I’m watching an entirely different episode, there is so much deceit, subtext and symbolism washing over me the first time watching, I think I catch 15% of it!

Ryan, Jen, YAE – you are rockstars.

Okay Lost experts – do you think this is plausible, the Flash Sideways is real and the island is the alternate reality? The people in the flash sideways are starting to remember the alternate reality, a game they already played.

It all comes back to the island sinking. What caused it and when did it happen? Whatever caused the island to sink is what caused the flash sideways not the bomb. Because the flashsideways go way back before the crash. Though the bomb somehow must have caused the time shift back to 2007.

Everytime I try to figure this out my head hurts from going in circles.

@Doc – well you still crack me up. though I left team dark a while ago, still on Team Sawyer which means get everybody off the island away from the two biggest manipulators in the world Jacob and MIB. Both are bad in my eyes.

My new crackpot theory (which I am thinking up this second) the flash sideways has always been the real world, and the island world has been the alternate timeline. The island is the gameboard for Jacob and MIB and when their use in the game is over they go back to their real life in the flash sideways. Bernard and Rose stopped playing a long time ago so they know what is going on and are back in their real lives.

You can’t kill yourself. Ex. Jack (on Black Rocck), Michael (off island).

You can’t kill a candidate. Jack (walking down the dock with gun a’blazing)

Was Alex a candidate? Or was there an agreement not to kill children? Why did Ben say what he did WHEN he did?

And where can I get one of them bullit proof tee shirts that FLocke was wearing?

I have rarely encountered beings more perverse than the writers of Lost. This was THE salient characteristic I absorbed in the first two seasons. They are many other praiseworthy things, but I have not forgotten this. They are expectation and genre busters.

@Nuckinfuts (Knives?) – Could Team Dark have received a greater boost than Lindeloff explaining that they needed to establish that Flocke is unequivocally the evil incarnate they have been suggesting? Why? See paragraph above. I don’t know why you reference a ‘fight’, and ‘adult-minded’. We are all, on this site, committed to The Great Experience of Lost. Fighting amongst ourselves would not be redemptive. Yes, yes, Team Dark has been the hot-seat of season 6, yet my bum blisters remind me of how good this all is. I have not been waving our flag much, but will now. Team Dark will in the end. Knives, your loss of Sayid was felt keenly. I find the more complex and compelling a character is, the less his/her chances. Mr. Eko, Anna Lucia, Sayid… we salute thee.

Last season I proclaimed John Locke as “God”. Wow, I had no idea the idiomatic exercise would progress here. But whether the visage of John Locke, Esau, or Terry O’Quinn is encountered, one is able to stare into the eyes of greatness and consummate skill. But, the absence recently of his counterpart, the Laurel to his Hardy, I feel is telling. Michael ‘The Ben’ Emerson will burst forth with all the ferocity of being ignored (again). That he now lurks with Ricardus the Confused, and ‘I Could See For” Miles makes his reemergence a force of considerable potential.

(Jeez, sounds like I’m mc’ing a WWF match)-NO! Much better!!! THE LOST ENDGAME. (sound of ginormous crowd cheering)

@Yann and Coolpeace- NOWHERE have I found a more cogent and respectful analysis of Esau’s Long Con, ne ‘The Loophole’. Without a handy pocket edition of ‘the rules’, you have gone where others have tried (and returned with only a headache), and carefully dissected convoluted terrain. Your contributions this week should be lauded (and ARE here).

Ryan and Jenn- Your time, effort, enthusiasm, persistence, and true love for all this has allowed us a forum of the most intelligent discourse I have found concerning ‘this whole Lost thing’. Thanks to you and Y’all Everybody, Lost is much more than it would have been for us all.

We know that Jin can’t have been a Candidate because he killed himself. Assuming he’s dead, of course

@ScottB – You said above; “@Ryan – Brilliant, I was sure we saw the c-4 in the luggage compartment, but after rewatching, you’re right it was a rectangular box wrapped in cloth.” Did you actually see this “rectangular box wrapped in cloth” in this episode? In the overhead? I have re-watched the episode several times, and have even disected the scene of FLocke following the wire to the overhead bin frame by frame, and I just do not see any “rectangular box wrapped in cloth”. In fact not much is shown at all of what he takes out of the overhead except for a blurred image.

I do remember this box that Ben took out from behind the register in the 5-1&2 episodes, but I sure can’t find it in this one. If it was there, that could be a HUGE reveal. But I just don’t see it.

PLEASE help – Someone!

It’s funny…I love how much the show makes you think and theorize..but this last episode, I was speechless..I just wanted to absorb every minute.

Whoever was shooting was with MIB.

1) I assume that Locke has his near-death experience when he crash landed his plane with Anthony Cooper. Maybe he has already experienced something?

2) Kate getting shot? That did not quite fit in. It could have been left out.

3) It’s so weird how from time to time when Flocke speaks you heard MIB’s voice.

I saw a minute sneak preview of next week and it’s a can’t miss episode, I can’t wait. I don’t have any idea of what the clip is really about but it looks really interesting and it looks to be the episode that clears up a lot of mythology.

Entertainment Weekly is supposed to have lots of Lost stuff in their issue this week with Lost Characters on the covers. They are having 10 different covers with different characters on each. I wonder which one I’ll get in the mail today. Hoping for Sawyer or Jack.

I have been thinking about their death and at first I was outraged that they didn’t think of their daughter, if I was Sun I would have pleaded with my husband to leave for our children’s sake. But if I were in Jin’s place, I do not think I could leave my husband to die like that, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. The whole situation was tragic.

@ScottB – I think you hit on something, instead of taking the C4, I think Locke/MIB sabotaged the plane so it can’t be used in the future or if it is used, it will crash.

Perhaps he will rise again mirroring Mikhail’s story?

if there was a time to know what the rules are…i would say its this next coming episode. fo sho

“at least i loved her”

Now how Dharma comes into play is that they found this place between worlds or the underworld and were allowed to stay as long as they did not interfere….I guess …gotta sleep…oh and above that should have said knowing instead of mowing…even though he was the lawnmower man.

This is my very first time blogging about a Lost episode, and what an episode to do it with. I have watched it 3 times since it aired, and each time, I cry harder and harder. An episode has not hit me emotionally like this since the season 3 finale when we lost Charlie….:(:(

RIP Jin, Sun, and Sayid. You will be missed by this super Lost fan!!!

As far as Lapidus goes, we don’t know for sure if he is dead or not. I think the writers could have more in store for him before all is said and done.

It’s hard to belive that there are only 3 new episodes left. I don’t know what I will do from May 23-August, when the entire series comes out on Blu Ray.

Good night, fellow losties. I look forward to commenting on the final stretch of episodes.

@ ScottB : I didn’t re rewatch but if the rectangular box was the one that Ben took out of the air conditioning unit in the hotel room before getting back on Ajira 316… wow good catch and the possibilities could be very interesting. We had thought that the box contained the gun he used to shoot Desmond at the marina.

After every flash sideways it’s like an hour or two or three had passed on the island.

“How long will it take to get the fence up?” “About an hour to get the generator running” then flash sideways, commercial, and we find the fence up and running and then boom Sun and Jin are talking and the power goes out.

When they trudged from the cages to the plane, they emerged at the runway and they made a point to shot us all the sweat circles on everyone’s shirts, as evidence of a somewhat long and arduous journey.

They could have put up a title block that read “5 hours later…..” but they know we love a good mystery and putting together the pieces.

I just today finally understand the 3 year discrepancy everyones talking about between the FSW and Island time……Flight 815 landed the day it was supposed to…..or it crashed and we have Claire who’s been stuck on the island since, and said she’s been on her own for 3 years, the same 3 years that the Oceanic 6 were back home.

They could have put up a title that read “3 years ago or 2007″ – but where’s the fun in that?

I’m not sure when UnLocke came up with the plan, but I think the people shooting at the Losties at the sub were actually some of the people from the beach that survived and were still loyal to MIB. They didn’t start shooting until it made sense for the losties to seek shelter in the sub. The only person they wounded was Kate, even though Jack was standing there plain as day shooting back. Seems like their mission was to wait, ambush the losties once they all got on the dock, and then injure Kate so the doc would be forced to go with her. Lock having switched the bomb to Jack’s pack HAD to have already figured out a way to get Jack to get on the sub.

@Coolpiece – pointed out that Locke grabbed the watch off the dead guys arm before going into the plane, so he knew he was going to make a time bomb, which means he probably had the c-4 already in his pack like you speculated.

so…..what was the rectangular box? It sounded like UnLocke disconnected it somehow from something. Was it wired to the plane? Did it need a power source and the plane was convenient – or is it a device that is useful to the airplane. Ben brought it back with him on the flight to help the plane eventually leave the island on the right vector maybe? Whatever it does, I think Smokey knew it was there and that was the purpose for heading to the plane.

If he used a time bomb on the plane they could just throw it out the door, did he plan to get them all on the plane and kill them some other way?

Thanks Ryan and Jen!

Amy SLC UT

All have been touched by death at their hands and now they are on the island of the dead that is the cork between worlds…..
Not a coincidence.

Kate was crossed off in MIB’s cave, not Jacob’s lighthouse. So she is no longer HIS candidate. Odd that HIS list seems the same one that Widmore got somehow. They are working together. Widmore agreed to help if MIB would bring back Daniel and let Widmore control the island.

Again I apologize for the length.

There are definitely some ambiguous situations regarding who was telling him what during his tenure as advisor to Jacob. BUT we definitely know that when Locke was shot by Ethan (in Because you Left) he tells Ethan then that his name is John Locke and that Ben had appointed him leader;

LOCKE: My name is John Locke. I know this is gonna be hard to understand, but Ben Linus appointed me as your leader.
ETHAN: That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

*** A side note here : This exchange with Ethan and Locke occurred before 2004, the plane crash and our Losties arrival on the Island – not doubt Ethan goes back and tells Ben that someone named John Locke says that he is our leader and you told him that. This bit of information that we now know should make us rethink the events in season 2 in ia whole new light – the events of the hatch when Ben was captured and his “playing” of John Locke. BEN knew all along who this Locke character was and he was afraid of him, and he tested him….until he realized that maybe Locke was special.

then Locke flashed to 2007 (although we did not know that at that time) and Richard showed up to tell him that he must bring back the Oceanic 6, gave him the compass and told him he would have to die in order to bring them back…. Richard was acting on John Locke’s (as MIB) orders.

[Richard Alpert emerges from the darkness carrying a torch.]
LOCKE: Richard?
RICHARD: Hey, John.
LOCKE: Richard… what is happening?
RICHARD: What’s happening is that you’re bleeding to death. Here.
RICHARD: I need to get the bullet out.
LOCKE: How did you know there was a bullet in my leg, Richard?
RICHARD: Because you told me there was, John.
LOCKE: No, no. No, I didn’t.
RICHARD: Well… you will.
LOCKE: It was Ethan who shot me.
RICHARD: Well… [donning eyeglasses] what comes around, goes around.
LOCKE: Aah! When am I?
RICHARD: Well, John, that–that’s all relative.
……….
LOCKE: I don’t understand. How–how did you know that I was here? How did you know where to find me?
RICHARD: I wish I had time to explain it, John. But you’re gonna be moving on soon, and we need to go over a couple of things before you do.
…….
RICHARD: Second thing–no, no, pay attention. Next time we see each other, I’m not gonna recognize you. All right? You give me this. All right?
LOCKE: What is this?
RICHARD: It’s a compass.
LOCKE: What does it do?
RICHARD: It points north, John. Look, I wish I had time to be more sensitive about this because it’s a lot to swallow, but you need to know it in order to do what you gotta do. So I’m just gonna say it, okay? [Sighs] The only way to save the Island, John, is to get your people back here–the ones who left.
LOCKE: Jack, Kate… The chopper was headed for the boat. The boat–
RICHARD: No, they’re fine, John, and they’re already home, so you have to convince them to come back.
LOCKE: How–how am I supposed to do that?
RICHARD: You’re gonna have to die, John.

In the episode Follow the Leader, John arrives to the Others camp in 2007 and sees Richard for the first time since coming back to the Island (as MIB) – he is about to set Richard up with the fateful meeting scene above … giving Locke the compass and telling him he will need to die.

LOCKE: I brought dinner.
[Locke sets the boar down in the sand.]
RICHARD: John?
LOCKE: Hello, Richard. It’s been a while.
RICHARD: It’s–it’s been, uh, three years. What happened? What–where–where were you?
LOCKE: I’ll explain on the way.
RICHARD: On the way where?
LOCKE: It’s gonna be night soon. You and I have an errand to run, and we don’t have a lot of time.
LOCKE: What’s wrong?
RICHARD: Something different about you.
LOCKE: I have a purpose now.

***Later in the episode :
RICHARD: I’m ready, John.
LOCKE: You still have that compass I gave you?
RICHARD: A little rusty, but she can still find north.
LOCKE: [Shouting] Ben, I’d appreciate it if you’d join us.
BEN: [Shouting] What, John, don’t you trust me here with my former people? Afraid I’ll stage a coup?
LOCKE: I’m not afraid of anything you can do anymore, Ben.
[Ben nods.]
BEN: Well, in that case, I’d love to come.

***They arrive at the spot overlooking where Locke was shot by Ethan :
LOCKE: A man’s about to walk out of the jungle. He’s been shot in the leg.
[Locke pushes a backpack into Richard's chest. Richard grunts.]
LOCKE: You’ll need this to get the bullet out.
RICHARD: Uh, I’m sorry, John. I’m not–
LOCKE: Now just listen. This is the important part. You’re gonna need to tell him that he has to bring everyone who left back to the Island. And when he asks how to do that… You tell him he’s gonna have to die.
BEN: Who is that man, John?
LOCKE: Me.

***A scene between Locke as MIB and Ben – while Richard is doing his thing with Locke, waiting got Richard to get back :
BEN: This must be quite the out-of-body experience.
LOCKE: Something like that.
BEN: Your timing was impeccable, John. How did you know when to be here?
LOCKE: The Island told me. Didn’t it ever tell you things?
BEN: No, John. And clearly it hasn’t told you where Jacob is, or you wouldn’t need Richard to show you.
LOCKE: You’ve never seen him.
BEN: What?
LOCKE: Jacob. You’ve never seen him, have you?
[Whooshing thud]

***Here to flash occurred and Locke vanishes and Richard goes back to MIB and Ben.

BEN: What just happened? Where did you go?
LOCKE: To give Richard his compass back.
RICHARD: You want the bullet?
LOCKE: Keep it. Everything go all right?
RICHARD: Well, you–you seemed pretty convinced, especially when I said you were gonna die. I’m certainly glad that didn’t have to happen.
LOCKE: Actually, Richard, it did. We better get back to camp.

Desmond is the “constant” that can remember events between the island and the sideways-world. He’s also able to complete tasks from one world to the other.

If Desmond can kill Locke in the sideways world, the MIB wouldn’t be able to use Locke’s body to communicate with the Lostie Candidates on the Island.

You make choices and MIB/Jacob battle to get you to make one set of choices or another. You make MIB choices and he brings your piece home, like in Backgammon or something. Someone (Rose/Bernard or Jack) aren’t going to do the MIB choices and this will cause him to lose.

To me the island is just a big test facility of alien or supernatural origin…ie, purgatory, Atlantis, etc. So I view the outcomes by what choice they came from, not what happens. Anna found peace, Echo found peace, Kwon’s found peace. I expect that Sayid is on his “815 world” path to happiness since Sawyer caught him and he had his Desmond-redemption.

I also agree that Rose/Bernard might have island awareness that the others don’t.

That said, you are undoubtedly right about the fact that time constraints are taking their toll. I did say that the writers were capable of so much more, or rather I certainly intended to imply that in saying, “Lost, you’re better than this.”

“My heart will go on…..” (Okay, one more cheesy Titanic reference.)

and jack said Locke was a “candidate” for the surgery. perhaps Locke, altough dead on the island, is still a candidate…

Everyone seems to take Locke at his word that the plane was rigged to explode. Both the characters and the viewers. Why exactly?
We did not see any explosives on the plane. We saw Locke notice wiring and look in the overhead compartment, and viewers were encouraged to infer that what he saw was the C4 he then produces for the losties.

As an alternative interpretaion of the sequence of events…

Locke picks up the watch to create a bomb. He goes into the plane not because he knows it is rigged to explode, but because he already has C4 and needs wiring to complete his bomb. He enters the plane looking for enough wiring and finds it. He builds then builds the bomb quickly so he can give it to Jack.

Why is it important that the plane was not rigged to explode as Locke suggests it was? Because this means Locke was lying about Widmore trying to kill the losties. Perhaps Widmore was telling Sawyer the truth that he had them in the cage for their own protection.

For example, when the Ajira flight arrived, how could MIB have known that some of the passengers would be sent back to 1977? We’re lead to believe that the Ajira time travel happened because they could recreate the EXACT circumstances as flight 815. Something went wrong, and some passengers went back in time.

Well, what if Ben had traveled back to 1977? Or, what if Locke wasn’t murdered off island, and instead he time traveled along with Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid? If Ben or Locke time traveled, then MIB’s long con was screwed.

The counter argument is that MIB knew that the Incident would occur, thus returning all the time travelers to 2007. How could he know this? The only answer is that he planned on Daniel being left behind, then traveling to the past, then burying the bomb, then deciding to detonate the bomb in 1977, and finally convincing Jack to do so after he died. That’s quite a stretch.

Anyway, I doubt we’re going to get an answer in the final episodes – the MIB’s long con worked: Ben killed Jacob. Whatever MIB had to do, and however long it took him, is history at this point.

Great work, though. One of my favorite things about Lost is reading all of the fantastic fan theories.

I hate that there are people among us that work so hard for evil (I know it is ONLY a tv show… but it reflects glimmers of real life, yes?), but I am encouraged that there will also be many that “move ever upward toward greater consciousness and greater love.”

Here’s to our Losties ascending and converging!

@ Embie ~ another beautiful quote!

As always, keeping it truly in perpective,

Gene E.

That “wondering” might also just be a symptom of over-thinking everything. When a story turns out to be this deeply symbolic, it is pretty easy to start assigning meaning to things that don’t have any extra meaning at all.

Fantastic!

There’s also the possibility that Sayid, Jin and Sun were no longer candidates (probably Sayid was not a candidate since his real death in LA X).

Is Richard just as ‘dupe-able’ as Locke?

Thanx y’all for being so smart in delving into the nitty gritty of this show!!

Ten days away from this board (in three hours) ~ yikes ~ see ya on the other side brothas (and sistas)

Concerning the question about whether this makes sense with MIBs aversion to water and the appearance of Christian in LA and on the freighter, I believe that this is part of the long con that MIB used on the losties.

Apart from MIB telling Sawyer that he had a problem with water was there any other reason for us to believe that he has a problem with water? So you have to ask why MIB would deliberately mislead Sawyer on this?

Well, first he is MIB and he lies as much or more than Ben ever did. But foremost, he had to expose a perceived vulnerability to Sawyer so that he could manipulate all the losties on the sub without him. If he comes across as too powerful how can Sawyer come up with a plan to get everyone on board without MIB.

It also now makes more sense why MIB purposely put Sawyer in a position where he could scheme against him. James, go to Hydra Island. James, go get the boat and take a friend with you. Oh, and by the way, I’ll leave the rest of you losties alone so that you can join up with James.

All part of the elaborate long con.

@ Popokigirl and Docjkm: The Dome analogy is a very good one. It’s no accident the writers are King fans and SK is a fan of theirs.

@Abiron – yours was the best reason offered why Ben/Miles/Richard could be the ones that planted the C4 on the plane

@ Mattfromnd: good catch on the 4 survivors = 4 captured – further evidence of the mirroring we’ve discussed on the board

Ok the thing is i had a problem with completely falling on the floor and weeping over Sun and Jins death as well as Sayid because the constant reminder that there is the flash sideways reality where everyone is alive and well dimmed those Charlie-esque moments not as emotional for me. When Charlie died there were no other realities where he coexisted, thats what made that moment the most memorable of the series, because that was the end of that beloved character forever (Atleast thats what i thought then)

I keep feeling that the ones that have died in this episode will become aware in the flash sideways of the existence of the Island and another reality, however the brief encounter of Jin and Locke as he was leaving the Hospital and Jin was coming in with flowers somehow canceled out my hypothesis.

Also about Widmore, why do i get the feeling that the reason he came to the Island and rigged the plane with explosives is to ultimately achieve UnLockes goal. However while at the same time killing UnLocke and becoming the new Man in Black. This doesnt mean that he and Jack will share an eternity on the Island but it may be his reason for arriving at his beloved Island to achieve ultimate power and to become that force that can be feared if unleashed onto the world.

we were so annoyed by their english, we were almost happy to see them go…

arrggghh….that English was sooooooooooooo irritating…..

Or there’s no such rules, and is THE ISLAND what decides if they live or die, like Ben said. Once the Island is done with you, it’ll kill you or let you die.

In closing, the plane is still there, and the only pilot is Lapidus. We didn’t really see him die, so is it possible that the Island (the writers) didn’t let him die because he still can (potentially) play an important role in the story? I hope so.

mib said “you have no idea…” but Jacob answered him quite clearly BEFORE that… the very first line spoken “You like it? I did it myself. It takes a very long time when you’re making the thread, but, uh… I suppose that’s the point, isn’t it?” Jacob has a master plan.

@Abiron: In season1 we have seen Smokey letting go of John because of dynamite… And Widmore threat him with mortar last episode. Maybe explosive is a way to kill mib. And mib knew that the others would guess something was wrong if he didn’t go in the airplane so he rather used the submarine for his plan.

HOLY FREAKIN POLARBEAR CRAP !!!

Sayid Redeemed by saving the losties playing “run with explosive device”

-Arzt
-Michael
-Illana
and now Sayid ,

if there is one message we take from lost its that explosives demand respect !

Jin and Sun drowing was the Saddest piece of TV i have seen in years

Sun Had to be a Candidate, because Jin died by his own hand , which the candidates cant do.

Frank has to be dead , got hit with Sub door in the Noggin, Who will Fly the Plane?

Look forward to hearing the podcast, and the Barrage of HFC’s that come with it

Mahalo

Michael

The material covered on “The Candiate” directly followed the episode before it, so the writers probably felt it was already fresh enough and therefore no need, even with last week’s hiatus.

OR there was a squeeze for time.

I won’t add my reactions to the many great comments already posted here and just get to the theory that I wanted to share, before next week’s episode either discredits me or proves me correct.

Since watching Ab Aeterno, a theory has been rolling around in my head – what if the Man in Black is actually the manifestation of JACOB’S evil? Dogen mentions every man has good and evil in him. MiB’s claim of “you made me like this” possibly hints that Jacob created the Man in Black, so what if he did so purging his own evil, which resulted in MiB, while he himself became pure good? Could this be a requirement or process in becoming the island’s guardian?

We’ve seen the scales of black and white representing these two many times over, and it may represent them literally. We also have not heard MiB’s name yet, and perhaps it is because, going by this theory, he has no name of his own. But if he considers himself just as real as his “good” counterpart, there’s only one name he could have – Jacob.

Fate? Coincidence? Foreshadowing?

@Daryl – Well stated indeed, and, I agree.

@Karen in Kitchener – Ditto the above. Not only that, but I feel I wrote your post, or you mine. Thanks much!!!

@Eric Kupers – Nice catch (dural sac forever). To anyone with medical knowledge, seriously irritating.

@JeffK – Thank you and welcome to Team Dark. I find other members of the team have reached their breaking point and have bailed. I will stay the course until the end is nigh. (not yet) We are involved with bigger issues than the individual wants, loves, and desires of our losties. What Flocke has in play is big, and will out in the end. I have faith in our writers, and Flocke is being beautifully framed as Mr. Bad. Oh, Knives, Nuckin’, you ducked.

@Coolpeace – very impressive, and I am not easily impressed. It certainly lends credence to Flocke’s “you have no idea what I’ve gone through…”

That we are here, on this site, posting like it all means something is testament to Lost, and anything I say further is less than redundant. What great 5 years of entertainment, and thought provoking creation.

I wrote on this site, some time ago, that many will be disappointed at the ending. The series is based on mystery, and the ending of a mystery is to either answering the questions, or not. The answers, if the mystery is truly compelling, rarely live up to that which our imaginations can provide, hence the smart thing to do (as writers) is to allude to possible answers, and head for the door. (Example from above of S King’s ‘Dome’, very applicable in its disappointing lameness, despite the overall excellence of the majority of the narrative.)

We are all invested, big time. I have ‘donated’ my time, and have been rewarded. I do not think the writers owe me anything as I have been fascinated, amazed, and compelled from the beginning. Yet, I have expectations for the same reasons I watch… excellence. I expect the ending to be excellent in some respect(s), and I fully hope that many, perhaps including me, will be disappointed in some ways. I just hope that ‘Lame’ is not one of those ways. I see warning signs, and some in this last episode. Yet, my faith leads me.

You can not buddy-breath with someone unconscious. Nope. Rather a major point. Jack leaves Sun and Jin to do something that cannot be done?? If that doesn’t disappoint you, you are giving the writers more than they are deserving from you.

And, yes, please stop with the dural sac.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/There's_No_Place_Like_Home,_Parts_2_%26_3

It was a great performance by YunJin and DDK. I think it could have had a greater impact if all their last lines were spoken in Korean. But Jin’s “I’ll never leave you” was sufficient to wrench my heart.

I don’t think MiB can be killed. I think he will remain in Locke’s form by the end of the show. I think Jack, Kate and Sawyer will be killed and Hurley will be the sole surviving Candidate to remain on the island as Jacob’s replacement and MiB’s foil.

and @Mattfromnd…
no one’s asking you to prove your manhood here by how much you don’t cry. it’s ok let go.

Maybe Richard and company tied the C4 into the electrics but didn’t know *how* to turn things on to cause the detonation…but they assumed that the Losties would be with Frank in the cockpit when he did. A pretty gusty assumption, but given Richard’s obvious monomaniacal zeal to destroy the plane, perhaps not out of character.

1. If it was set by Widmore and his scientists-turned-goons, why wasn’t it more…professional? I mean, scientific types should be able to hide a bunch of C4 somewhere a bit better than sticking it in an overhead compartment. Maybe in one of the engine cowlings, where it would be a lot more effective once the aircraft got airborne.

2. Placing the C4 inboard and tying it to the electrical system means that anyone powering up the plane – long before trying to take off – would set it off. And powering things up would be done from the cockpit, a good distance away from where we saw MiB pull the item from the bin. So placing it there would be no guarantee of killing, well, anyone…certainly not whomever was in the cockpit. It would, however, almost certainly render the aircraft unflyable.

3. I’m still thinking the C4 was a Richard/Ben/Miles thing. Theory: Ben leads Richard and Miles to the C4, stored in some Dharma location he is aware of…but there are no detonators. One of them sneaks aboard the plane – only 2 guards? – and rigs it up, but since they don’t have any way of detonating it – C4 requires an electrical or “spark” detonation – they rig it to the plane’s electrics. Maybe the person who set it there was in the cockpit getting ready to start things up and do serious damage when MiB showed up. In other words, if MiB hadn’t showed up when he did, the 2 useless guards may have been privy to the C4 blowing up and rendering the Ajira plane useless.

The only reason I’m stuck on this not being Widmore’s work is that I just can’t see any real reason for Widmore to have set the C4, knowing that it would likely kill the Candidates and let MiB leave. Richard and company moving forward with the plan to destroy or massively damage the plane seems more likely, especially since they have been working unseen for a couple of episodes.

@popokigirl: I can’t say I feel the same about the plot being merely a “stolen fable.” All our most powerful stories tend to share tropes with one another. The same elements of myth get recycled through a culture’s narrative history. So when I start to see these epic good vs. evil themes, these images of self-sacrifice and heroism, I’m waiting to find out how they weave these familiar concepts and images into the lives of these, our beloved Losties.

I will admit, Sayid, Sun, Jin, and Lapidus were killed off very quickly and somewhat coldly, in terms of the story. It is true that the Kwons, in particular, had a weak exit, with no service to the plot. But, to me, that is more a consequence of the show’s contractually shortened season length, not the writers’ lack of vision or skill. We KNOW they can write a great show, but the truncated seasons have forced them to cut some corners. At least that’s my opinion.

That said, I stand by my original assessment of this episode as strong. For the first time this season, I was equally interested in both the on- and off-island story. And I really think the flash sideways is best enjoyed on its own, as a separate story, until the writers make clear the connection between the two world. We have to remember–the alternate reality has not been truly connected to the island yet. We don’t know if it is set up to undo the events on-island or not, or if the Losties will have some sort of choice between the two realities. There may be no happy ending for anyone, for all we know. It could be that the flash sideways is simply the result of the timeline being split by Jughead, and that, once the finale is over, the FS world will have ceased to exist because some rift in time has been healed. I’m just saying that, given the events of Season 6 thus far, we have NO IDEA how the two are connected. And there may yet be a way for the writers to link the two without negating our experience as viewers invested in the characters for the last five seasons, and also without resorting to cheesy, unsatisfying solutions. I’m not sure how they would do that, exactly–but that’s the point, isn’t it?

But is it possible the c4 was put there by richard, Ben and miles? We know they were going for explosives and we know the others did have c4 at ones point (flame station was rigged with it).

Would be a nice way to being them back inti the story.

2 issues with my thought.
1 they probably wouldn’t have rigged it to blow up when the plane was started, since it’s their friends (sort of).
2 not sure if they could make it to the barracks and over to hydra that fast.

Anyway just a thought.

It is interesting that MIB is exposed as being pure evil, yet so many other characters seem to be many shades of grey (even Jacob doesn’t seem ‘all good’)

“Lindelof recognizes that there’s something “brutal” about killing Jin and Sun just one episode after their long-awaited reunion — which, he says, is exactly what made the lovers such an apt choice for making a statement about Fake Locke’s malevolence.” So we lose (and they “choose” to end) complex, well-developed characters in a hasty, meaningless fashion, so that they can “make a statement” about a character introduced at the end of season 5, a statement which simplifies that once potentially complex character into a johnny one-note.

SUPER.

I liked the Sideways world better than Island world since 6.1 because, thank goodness, it retains complexity. And mystery.

What’s mysterious about good vs. evil? There’s a reason it’s “black versus white”. Nothing grey.

So many things…I really liked the lighting and filming in this episode…I feel like I saw many colors that I’ve never seen in LOST.

Sayid back! Then BOOM. AHHH!
Claire coming back to normal?
“Fast Draw” Sawyer who screws everything up… ( I love how it wasn’t Jack again…
Side-flash Locke is different….and receives FLASHES!!! OMG. So excited…

It was great. Loved it.

Question: Do you think if Sawyer hadn’t pulled the plug….would they all have lived?

—–Eric from Oakland…(BUT NOT THE ONE WHO CALLS) (yeah I know weird…)

I’ve watched this show from the get-go, as have most of you. Like you, I have been calling it the best show on TV (and maybe the best TV show ever). I have agreed with Darlton in their calling it a novel, with chapters, and here I am reaching the end of that novel…but…

@Sobaika, @Jesse, @John Fischer, @Bob from Oxford, @Chris… I am with you, totally.

Ever since TPTB introduced an almost literal “deus ex machina” in Jacob/???, here in the last chapters, I’ve been worried. We had 5 years of character-driven plot with interesting and suggestive sci-fi elements now reduced to a simplistic good vs. evil fable, borrowing, nay, stealing its weight with a whole bunch of allusions to the Good Book.

Now time has almost run out, so it seems to be time to dispose of those same characters we can’t just seem to fit into our stolen fable. Sayid deserved better than this Season 6 “is he good? is he evil? is he a zombie?” nonsense. Sun and Jin? Don’t get me started on those “Charlie’s death–LITE!” “Titanic–LITE!” scenes. Lapidus? “Aw hell.” Seriously.

Just so I’m clear…I’m not angry that they were killed off. I’m angry at the almost thoughtless, cursory way they were killed off, what felt like a throwing-up-of-hands that said, “hey, we don’t know how to end this!”

“Lost,” tell me my trust in you–which you asked for at Comic Con, remember?– is not misplaced.

Of course I’ll continue watching. It’s like reading Stephen King’s “Under the Dome” (which has several “Lost” references), getting to page 850 and realizing that the thing that’s going to tie up the story is going to be very lame, but you figure, “hey, I’ve already committed so much time…I guess i’ll see it through.”

Let me try and answer your points, although it will undoubtably result in a nosebleed and a headache, I do enjoy trying to solve these issues. It will be long so I apologize in advance.

Point by point:

1. That Ben turns the donkey wheel, causing the island to skip through time;

Christian (MIB) tells Locke that they will need to move the Island. Ben, who thinks that Locke is now in the good graces of Jacob and is the new leader to the Others, realizes that he (not Locke) must turn the wheel. Because he knows that to turn the wheel, means you leave the island. Ben understands that Locke must stay to lead his people – ergo: Ben will turn the wheel.

In the season 4 finale Ben and Locke discuss the turning of the wheel:

BEN: He told you what to do, but he didn’t tell you how because he wants me to suffer the consequences.

LOCKE: What consequences?

BEN: Whoever moves the island can never come back. So I’d like you to get on the elevator, John, and go back up. Richard and my people will be waiting 2 miles east of the Orchid.

Then when Ben starts to turn the wheel he says out loud :

BEN: I hope you’re happy now, Jacob.

2. Who would leave the island (Oceanic 6), and just as importantly who would stay behind;

Here it really is not very important who stays and who leaves so long as Locke stays. Regardless of who left, Locke would be told that they needed to be brought back.

3. What years the time travelers would visit, and what they would do (ie bury the bomb);

Because Richard was the person MIB needed to convince that Locke was special and the future leader and Richard was always on the Island (150 years) – it did not matter to MIB what time would be revisited or visited by Locke once they started to skip through time… at some point they would land in the far past and when Locke would cross paths with Richard Locke would tell him that he would be the future leader. of course the compass was already in play … MIB had told Richard to give Locke the compass and that he had to leave the Island and get the others back.

In the episode Jughead : Locke meets Richard in 1954. He already had given Locke the compass:

RICHARD: I gave you this?

LOCKE: Yes.

RICHARD: After you were shot in the leg and I… wandered out of the jungle to patch you up?

LOCKE: That’s right.

RICHARD: Then why don’t I remember… well, any of this?

LOCKE: Because it hasn’t happened yet.

RICHARD: [Chuckles] I’m not sure what you’re expecting me to say, John Locke.

LOCKE: I expect you to tell me how to get off the Island.

RICHARD: That’s very privileged information. Why would I share it with you?

LOCKE: Because you told me that I had something very important to do once I get there. And because I’m your leader.

RICHARD: You’re my leader?

LOCKE: That’s what you told me.

RICHARD: Look, I… certainly don’t want to contradict myself, but… we have a very specific process for selecting our leadership, and it starts at a v–very, very young age.

LOCKE: All right. All right. What year is it right now?

RICHARD: It’s 1954.

LOCKE: All right. May 30, 1956–2 years from now–that’s the day I’m born–Tustin, California, and if you don’t believe me, I suggest you come and visit me.

[Locke smiles at Richard, then perks his ears up and looks around. A high-pitched humming pervades the Island.]

LOCKE: Oh, no.

RICHARD: What’s wrong?

LOCKE: It’s about to happen again. You need to tell me now, Richard. How do I get off the Island? Please! Tell me!

… Too late they flashed out of that time period. But Locke knew he had to leave the Island because Richard told him to … by Locke, as MIB, in 2007.

4. That Locke could be persuaded to turn the donkey wheel back;

No persuasion needed, once he figured out where he needed to go… and where the wheel was …. at the bottom of the well. Christian again showed up to tell him what he had to do… Of course that Christian was MIB. pushing Locke to leave the Island and stopping the time traveling.

5. That Ben would kill Locke off island, and then bring back his dead body;

That point is not clear to me, I will grant you that. We know that Ben was working with Eloise Hawking trying to gather the group and taking them back on Aijra 316. Which leads me to question Eloise’s motives and by extension Ben’s… although I think Ben just wanted to get back to the Island…

6. That the Oceanic 6 would return, but some would travel back to 1977;

7. That the Incident would occur, and return the time travelers to the present

Your points 6 and 7 above, as far as MIB is concerned are moot. MIB only wanted to kill Jacob. All MIB needed was Locke’s body and Ben to be primed with Alex’s apparition and Ben’s past ‘relationship’ with Jacob. ie: that Jacob never interacted with Ben at any level… see above. But he needed Richard to trust Locke as leader so he would lead him to Jacob and let him into Jacob’s foot hideout. Hence all the shenanigans with the compass.

In fact, I believe that points 6 and 7 were put in play by Jacob… When he said “They are coming” that is what he meant.

JACOB: Well, you found your loophole.

LOCKE: Indeed I did. And you have no idea what I’ve gone through to be here.

And that is what I think the loophole was … follow the compass. THE END. :p

One question: why did UnLocke disarm the C4 from the plane when he could’ve just as easily let the Losties board and go BOOM? I find it hard to believe UnLocke truly has plans for the plane.

Amazing episode and I’m looking forward to the upcoming podcast!

–Brandon from Seattle, WA

@ScottB in DC — re: the daylight discrepancies. This topic does keep coming up, and many people seem anxious for it to be an editing glitch. I don’t think it’s that. I think it’s either a) a sign of passing time, like you (and others) mention, or b) the odd time phenomenon on the island. Specifically regarding the time surrounding the sub, it could be that the sub reached the outskirts of the island where time is not the same as on-island time, and when the losties return to the island the time is not the same as it was on the sub.

I now see why they kept the Sun/Jin reunion to a minimum. It was just fantastically done.

Also loved the mirror image scenes between Jack and Locke in the hospital compared to the scene in season 4 at the Orchid St.

Keep up the great work guys.

@Mallory: I’m with you. I’m thinking that MIB and Jacob can’t kill each other because they are 2 sides of the same person. The light side and the shadow side of a personality.

I think that the writers were trying to let us know that Jin Yun would be ok when Jin said “So, she’s with your mother”. It seemed a bit forced (esp. since no one bothered to tell Claire where Aaron was). It was nice to see them catch up, knowing now what was going to happen.

I liked how Jack explained the “fact” that they couldn’t be killed by MIB, as opposed to how Hurley explained the voices with “Hey I think I know what this is”.

I disagree. Jin and Sun haven’t been irrelevant. While their story (thanks to Darlton) has been in the background moreso than other characters, they’re still very relevant. We’ve been with them from the beginning, when we thought Jin was an overprotective, overbearing, control freak and Sun was his trapped, submissive wife. We’ve learned that they each kept terrible secrets from each other, and struggled along the way. Their story has always fascinated and touched me. When the writers tricked us into thinking that Jin was there to witness Ji Yeun’s birth and we first saw his coffin, I cried. When Jin ended up on shore with Danielle Rousseau, I cheered. So many things they’ve been through along the way to find each other, only to be ripped from a happy ending and perish together in a watery grave, they most certainly weren’t irrelevant.

I like the idea that Flocke cant kill the candidates directly, because somehow, the candidates still have free will. The candidates will somehow create a ‘new’ pre-determined future and Flocke cant correct to what he doesn’t know is going to happen.

Interesting things to speculate about: Desmond as Richardus? Jack as Jacob? Sawyer as MIB?

UnLocke says they can all only leave the island together, an obvious prevarication. Why do we think he needs a boat or plane or sub to leave the island? It’s no easy thing to sail/fly off the island, you need the perfect vector right?

Maybe Jack kills UnLocke in the way Sayid couldn’t (he sure is stubborn enough to stand up to his persuasiveness) and then Jack and the other living souls merge with the FS counterparts, and all is a vague memory – like looking in a mirror and seeing someone slightly different than you expect somehow?

What gets me is we see Jack and Sawyer come out of the ocean and it’s already pitch dark. Not that much time had elapsed, they bring Kate on and try to stop the bleeding and find the bomb, the bomb goes off, they escape the sub…..maybe 20 minutes?

But I guess they dove pretty far in the sub and had to buddy breathe slowly to get to the top? Late evening and dusk can go pretty quick when there’s storm clouds?

I started watching Lost only this past summer when recovering from (TMI, you don’t have to know) and spending lots of time lying down. So I watched every episode in very compressed fashion and haven’t had the years of experience that many of you seem to have. Still, a lot of dust in my living room last night.

About this episode/season (and what I remember of your postings):
1. what was in the stocking thing that Claire packed up at the camp when the group set off for the sailboat last episode or one before that? looked like a big round thing but I fancied it might be used as a weapon, sort of a slingshot. is it nothing at all? It looked so strange and it was right in the middle of the framing.
2. Jack says to Claire in FS – we’re not strangers, we’re family – this seems to set up a strong alliance for them in island time (despite Claire seeming to be with Unlocke) – Claire might not be as with him as it first appeared.
3. Modes of transportation off the island – isn’t that sailboat still around?
4. And I’m not so sure Lapidus is dead – remember Jin and the explosion on the freighter?
5. Did the FS plane accident in which Anthony Cooper and Locke were injured really take place three years ago? Locke says he doesn’t remember what he did but “it was my fault”. What if he doesn’t remember what he did because he didn’t DO anything – what if the accident resulted from an “incident” similar to the one that brought down Oceanic 815 on the island?
6. Of course, Bernard – I love that wide ironic warm smile, and the what he said to Jack at the end of that scene – was it “I hope you find what you’re looking for”?
7. Hydra Island – well, I just of remembered but just looked up Hydra and it’s an ancient serpent-like chthonic (love that word) water beast from Greek mythology with nine heads only one of which is immortal. Fun to read about it as the story involves poisonous fumes, and guardians of the entrance to the underworld. Not that we have to take this literally, but it’s one more example of the brilliance of the writing and the deep cultural references.
see: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:92b3YjLM_ekJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lernaean_Hydra+hydra&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

We’re not done with Anthony Cooper.

Frank Lapedis earned his wings. My wife and I preferred the Helicopter Frank “Look” and not the Corporate Pilot Frank “Look”. Great job, Jeff Fahey.

If the writers/director had done a better job at reuniting Sun and Jin, the effect would have been a real emotional stunner. Sentimental episode, none-the-less. Bravo! — Naveen Andrews, Yunjin Kim, Daniel Dae Kim.

Is the little bloody armed boy, then later with darker hair another manifestation/ghost? Is it Jacob reborn?

Why were his hands bloody, symbolizes guilt for something? All those people who were brought to the island because they killed or accidentally caused the death of someone.

It only ends once, everything else is just progress. Sound like when you’re finally through being reborn through many lives and achieve Nirvana.

I just don’t get the emotional attachment to two characters that have been pretty much irrelevant for years now.

No offense to those who cried. You just got something out of it that I did not.

@Rusty and others — re: the names crossed off. I don’t think having your name crossed off means you’re dead. I think it just means you know longer qualify as a candidate.

@Laura in NY and others — re: smokey and water. I think in the form of the smoke monster he is unable to touch or cross over water. Since he survived water in the human form, it’s clear water doesn’t effect him as Man in Locke.