Good Genie Rules (taken from the movie Alladin, the definitive definition on the defining of ‘good genie’ rules):
1) Can’t make anyone fall in love with you. (Dang it! Sorry Kate, I’ll just have to woo you myself!)
2) Can’t kill anyone. (Ben implies that the death of Alex broke the rules.)
3) Can’t bring anyone back from the dead. (Sayid, the promise of Nadia or Shannon. Who else? Michael, whisperers, et al.)
4) Ixnay on the wishing for more wishes. (Dang it! I was gonna spend some on Kate.)

Bad Genie Rules:
1) There are no rules.(?)

Ben/Widmore Rules:
1) Tit for Tat? Eye for an eye? Daughter for daughter? The rule of no harm to innocent family members?

Jacob/MIB Rules:
1) To annoy the hell out of me. (Just a guess.)

Jacobs self imposed rule was once to not personally interfere. He hired Richard. But at the end… he interfered. Was this ‘the’ rule break?

My Rules:
1) Jacob/MIB must die. (Who really needs them? And haven’t they done enough?)
2) Me and Kate.

It only ends once, everything else is just progress…… What is the end that Jacob is talking about, is the purpose of the island to keep evil/malevolence trapped there? What is the end game or end goal of the game?

I have a few thoughts … Widmore picks John up after he turns the wheel & wants to protect him. Says he was tricked into leaving by Ben…then Abbadon. Gets shot by by Ben. Both tell John how impotant to their cause he is…then Ben kills Locke.

A few episodes before Ben tells Jack the story of Doubting Thomas…and how he was originally suggesting that he and the others go and help or stand up for Jesus before he was arrested ..that they may die with him….that he was brave and not remembered for it…later when Ben sees Flocke seemingly resurrected he says that it was one thing to believe but another to see it ….thinking like many of you have said that we are missing something still about Ben…perhaps he knows more still, timelines, destiny, alt universes or was just played by MIB? Thinking, thinking…..

Funny when Ilana is told by Flocke right after the crash that he was dead…dies she know immediately that he is MIB? Also they are on side island and so Smokie must have been able to cross the water somehow to pose as John.

If Kate’s name was not crossed out in the light house, isn’t she still a candidate?

Ben killed Locke, who was a candidate (and killed Jacob) what are the consequences?

If the candidates stayed off the island, does that mean the man in black could not escape the island? He was so intent on getting all the candidates back. He was frustrated that Ben moved the island and not Locke, and said something like “since when did listening to Ben ever get you anywhere?!”

Why did the man in black prefer Locke to move the island? and from a few posts ago, someone made a great point, Ben knew how to break into the chaamber with the donkey wheel, knew it was cold in there, and knew he would end up in Tunisia and not know what year it was. How?

Christian was holding a lamp so he had a solid form.

@Greenberry, interesting info re: ep 15.

@Scott – I think he could enter because Jacob was dead and Dogen and Lennon were dead. Remember what Lennon said just before he died, about how Smokey would kill them now and Sayid said “I know” and then killed Lennon. (don’t remember the exact words).

@Bryan – yup, I think there will be plenty to talk about after the show. It will be sad when we put it behind us. I look forward to when my son will watch it.

is tomorrow epi 14? tall lady in epi 15

@Everybody – I have been a listener to the show for quite some time, but farely new to the board. Great stuff from everybody and I hope we have lots to talk about long after the series concludes.

Earlier in the same episode, this place is death, smokey drags one of Rousseau’s team members into the grotto under the temple. Why was that place safe at one time, Ben sent everyone there, yet smokey could enter it then?

I can’t remember in Sundown, why smokey is allowed to enter the temple. Was it just because Jacob/Dogen was dead or did it have to do with being invited – like the rule having to do with the base of the statue?

Ordered the 2010 Lost Paleyfest DVD from Amazon. It just came out and I figured if I am going to be obsessed I am going to do it right.

Paleyfest is a panel with the Lost Cast, it should be interesting.

I am rewatching season 5 and I forgot about how much they mixed up all the episodes, no wonder why we were confused. Flashbacks, flash presents, time flashes. I wonder if Rose was having hot flashes at the same time. haha.

After watching Meet Jeremy Bentham I did note that Widmore said it was important to for Locke to stay alive and he would do his best to make sure Locke stayed that way. Widmore didn’t tell John that he needed to die. So when Widmore said that a war was coming and John had to be there to help fight it, he meant that John should be there alive as himself. So to me, that means that Widmore didn’t want MIB to claim John.

Also re: the others, Widmore said they had been there for 30 years before people started coming to the island and fighting with them.

Here’s to stepping out into the SUNLIGHT!!! (What were you specifically referring to as “one such moment?”)

@Amaia – there will still be lots to post about so plenty of time left to comment. You have me curious about the tall actress with the big eyes.

The whispers represent those who are either gone or outside of the present reality. But no one can be said to be gone for good until the ultimate moment of quantum definition in which a single plane out of many possible universes gets locked into place, so to speak. Thus, the incongruity of Charlie’s “Am I Alive?” written on his palm. This also implies that the phantom whisperers/sudden apparitions may have their own motives in determining the version of reality that gets validated. Some may shepherd those who remain toward sacrifice while others may seek the fulfillment of their wishes in the ATL.

Some of you are frightening me with what you have gleaned about the ending from podcasts and tweets. Let’s hope it’s misdirection. I’m not dead set on an ending of my own invention and would actually prefer the shock of Through the Looking Glass. But such an ending demands a certain clarity in which your eyes are at last opened to a long veiled truth. It’s a feeling like Plato describes in the allegory of the cave in which you’ve only seen reflections of the light off the cave walls your entire life until you finally step out into the sunlight. Lost has already given us one such moment and I still believe they will deliver another. They’ve had it in their pocket since they first conceived the show, after all.

@greenberry- Yeah, Amazing actress and very tall.

By the way, I regret not having commented things before with you, so hopefully we’ll have a lot to talk after the last episode.

I too, have had wet Walt stuck in my mind…could it be that in one of the mirrored timelines, he and our other Losties actually DO crash in the ocean and perish? Or could wet Walt signify the “end of days” scenario we saw in LA X this season?

Oh man, I do love this show. Anyhoo…Is anyone else hosting a LOST finale party?

Also in Season 2′s “Abandoned” Ana Lucia and her group, Mr. Eko, Michael, Jin, and Sawyer, etc are trekking through the woods and they start hearing the whispers, in which Ana tells them to run, which in turn leads Ana to shooting Shannon. My theory on the whispers is, they are in fact those that have died, yet everyone on the island, at that time, thought it was the Others. Hugo now knows that they are from those that have died.

But in another thread I commented about the eye in the cabin that Hurley sees. It was a big deal back in season 4 but seems to be forgotten. In the cabin we see Christian in the shadows in the rocking chair, and then an eye appears quickly in the window. There was much speculation as to who it could be. I know this doesn’t pertain to the main topic, but certainly good for discussion while we await Tuesday’s new episode.

@greenberry- I agree with what you say. I also trust the writers although I think I won’t like the ending of the series and that’s why I believe what I want to happen won’t. Hopefully, in the end we’ll understand many things we don’t know yet and everything will have a sense. The most important for me is that the characters I more care about have a nice ending. But like I said, I’m sure whatever I want won’t happen.

And, about John-Jack, their relationship is like Jacob-MIB’s. Man of faith versus man of science. John was a believer and Jacob is, but Jack only wanted to leave the Island like Smokey. And now, both Jack and Smokey are together. The pity is that John died for nothing and in that way John finished being like Ben, I mean both were betrayed, John by Ben and Ben by Jacob.

@ScottB in DC- Yeah, the whispers thing must be better explain. I’m ok with the explanation but I think they made it just to make us happy.

Kate is a candidate just like the others, but I think the ones with the numbers are more important than the others. But I think there’s something strange here. Well, Jacob brings people to the Island to prove the MIB is wrong. But, Ben also brought people to the Island, Juliet at least, and as far as I know she wasn’t chosen by Jacob so why was her name crossed out?

@Carol from Boston- According to Lostpedia, Goodwin’s wife can be dead or alive. So, if MIB can only take have the appearance of someone dead, maybe she was the Island? I guess the Island didn’t like both Daniel and Charlotte’s plan.

By the way, I read the Lostpedia book will solve some of the open things the finale leaves.

As per our John/Jack focused rewatch: there is lots of interaction and tension between these two in this set-up for the opening of season 5.
John to Jack: “We’ll just have to see which one of us is right.” John lets Jack know that Jack has a purpose — John tells Jack that Jack and the other Losties are not supposed to leave — John informs Jack that Jack must ‘lie’ — John tells Jack that Jack must protect the island ~ So Locke before he is Smokey/MIB seems to be ‘in the know’ and guides Jack to eventually return to the island. Locke seems so strong and dominant in their conversations, yet he seems unsure in all the scenes with sneaky, control-freak Ben. And as we now know, he gets taken over by an evil? force. I guess we’ve discussed all this above – it was helpful to see some of these pieces being put into place.

Okay, scrap the shiny bow… six months hmmm… then they can come out with their book after everyone calms down – lol — I am still okay with whatever they do, and I like that idea that we will discuss LOST in the future. I guess ‘endings’ are subjective – to me life in general is a non-definitive mystery (including my own) which is always open to a lot of directions (and interpretations) — I don’t always understand everyone and everything around me, so it is cool to not always understand everything in a movie or show either — open-ended movies don’t necessarily bother me

I just don’t want any more losties to do, sigh, I know that won’t happen. Here’s hoping for my happy ending in the sideways world.

BTW the sneak peaks for next week are good, both Jack/Locke related and not really that spoilerish at all. They are just 50 second clips.

One thing is for sure I am dying to know who Jack was married to who is the mother of David. That is on the list of stuff I want resolved.

Damon said there won’t be any more info on the numbers and whispers.

Lostpedia also has a twitter account.

I want to also say that I agree with you 100% on the ending of LOST not being 100% definitive on a lot of subjects. I think Darlton have been saying that for a long time. I guess to keep from disappointing everyone, that is almost the way it has to be. As greenberry said above, there are just too many fan positions on characters to please everyone.

I remember reading a long time ago (and I think it was on this board) that the people who will be disappointed the most, are the people that think they have the show and it’s ending all figured out. Even with my latest crackpot theory, I have tried my best to NOT be one of these people. If my theory ends up being correct, I can say “Yep, I knew it!” If it isn’t, oh well. hehehehehe

I would say if the writers have done their job, we’ll all be able to come back to this board even 10 years from now and continue or discussions on what a lot of what we’ve seen means. You suppose Ryan and Jen will keep things archived for us? hahahahahaha

http://www.docarzt.com/lost/lost-news/lost-finale-thr-com-interviews-damon-lindelof/

I bring this up, because Penny is running up the same steps in the presumably same stadium when Desmond finds her (in the other life), in which he passes out and sees into the Island life.

Desmond always saying, “See you in another life” is making sense now.

Bonita ~ I love all that spiritual 108 imagery

I have relatives in several of your cities (Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, New York, Cleveland, Los Angeles) ~ still rooting for a future meet-up

I think this “rewatch project” has been absolutely fantastic!!

re:Walt – still can’t figure out the talking backwards and being wet. I thought he may have astroprojected or something. He had talents but even the others couldn’t figure them out.

re: the numbers dont’ they add up to 108?

@Amaia- I always thought that Goodwin’s wife was dead as well, Juliet seemed a little taken aback to see her and how else would she communicate with Ben. Ben must know about the source of the whispers as well and called on Goodwin’s wife to send a message. Wasn’t she wet as well?
Why were the numbers beign transmitted? Were they like a siren luring the candidates to the island.

I still don’t know why Hurley was saying the numbers when the Rousseau landed in her raft on the island. Hurley must have done that during his dharma time.

Also when I watched Eloise explain the lampost station, she specifically said the island moves in time and that is why it is so difficult to find.

So far I have watched the first 6 episodes of season 5. I really loved the show last year but I am enjoying it even more now because I am not so frustrated and confused about the time travel. It is so much easier to follow the storyline.

Here is something to think about, did MIB know that Locke wouldn’t be able to bring everyone back and that Locke would chose suicide because he had to sacrifice himself? How did MIB know that Locke would be dead when he returned? Was Ben told to kill him?

@Amaia – the whispers, still making my head hurt! Dead people, living people, smoke monster lots of things preceeded by the whispers.

Enhanced Ab Aeterno was nice the way is crystallized the debate of sin as part of human nature or not, the idea of a clean slate (Tabula rasa) and Jacob bringing people to the island.

It settled Richard was the origin of the others, the people Jacob brings to the island.

It pointed out that many of the people brought to the island were responsible directly or indirectly for someone’s death, so there’s sin in their past. Why were Jack, Locke, Hurley, Jin, and Claire chosen?

We know the candidates are there to replace Richard, and until they all follow MIB or are dead, he can’t leave, but why were they chosen?

Kate’s name is on the lighthouse wheel but it is 51, not one of the numbers. It’s crossed out in the MIB’s cave. Is she a candidate?

They confirmed no one is allowed to enter the statue unless Jacob invites them as rule number one. Bram and the team broke the rule – so MIB was allowed to kill them all? Why did they point out the fact that Bram and his team broke the rule?

Stages of the soul: Said that Atman, the human soul or center goes through 108 stages on the journey.

Heart Chakra: The chakras are the intersections of energy lines, and there are said to be a total of 108 energy lines converging to form the heart chakra. One of them, sushumna leads to the crown chakra, and is said to be the path to Self-realization.

Two more things I’ve thought of. The number 108 could be the years that Smokey have to wait until he tries to leave the Island again?

And the whispers… in “The Other Woman” when Juliet is in the jungle the whispers sound and afterwards Goodwin’s woman appears and tells Juliet Ben wants her to stop Dan and Charlotte. That woman died? And why did Juliet believe her? Juliet is not a stupid woman so hat makes me think that maybe not only had Ben Smokey trapped behind Dharmaville but controlled the whispers too.

@Carol from Boston- If I’m not wrong, when Richard went to visit John when he was a little boy, one of the objects he showed him was a compass. If Locke gave Richard the compass in the past, Richard would remember him.

@LReene- I think all the others want outside when they heard the airplane because if that is a remote Island which almost nobody can’t find, they were not used to hear airplanes flying over their heads. And I’m sure there are not earthquakes on the Island either.

I’ll have to look more at the clothing, I’ve been fixated on whether or not the manifestation is able to pick something up or brush by something and make it move as a clue to their identity.

Why does Walt appear soaking wet and talking backwards? I was wondering if that was MIB shorting out because he was touched by water – lol.

Will Ben strangle someone again and totally blow me away or is he really reformed? Can’t wait for Miles and Richard to come to the rescue, I wonder how Ben will figure into that.

I’ve been really interested in figuring out which ghosts or manifestations are real and which are MIB. I really don’t know what to think about Jacob and the manifestations. Why do think Jacob is capable of taking another human form? I feel like this is something only smokey can do. Let me know if there are any clues you found as to what abilities Jacob has in regards to taking another human form.

The really interesting thing for me now is that ab eterno showed us that Hurley see the real deal and that the real manifestations or ghosts are not able to interact with the real world. Isabella touches Richard’s face, but Richard can’t feel it. In the hold of the Black Rock Isabella and Richard embrace just like normal people, so that means that version of Isabella is MIB.

Wondering about Christian’s shoes makes me think of Isabella’s cross necklace, Richard has it in the storm, then when he wakes up, it’s gone. MIB has taken it, later he returns it……..why? He doesn’t seem to use it to manipulate, he only returns it and says I found this on deck.

I just rewatched Namaste doing whisper/ghost research – lol. Sun (kick ass Sun now) and Lapidus (my new favorite character) hear the tick a ticka sound and the whispers just before seeing Christian in the barracks. Christian operates in the real world like a regular person, opening the door, picking up the recruit framed photo etc. The way he describes where “your friends” are and “having a bit of a journey” to get to them make it seem like MIB is also in or still aware of 1977 and the present day – a deeper understanding of the continuum of time.

With Michael’s appearance to Hurley, it seems like really Michael, so the whispers seem to be warning the losties about lots of things….the others, Smokey, etc.

@James – I just watched the Well scene. It really feels like MIB is Christian because when Locke asks him if he has to die, Christian tells him that is what sacrifice means. Plus at the time he refused to touch him. At the time we were puzzled by this, but now that we know the power of touch, it makes sense. MIB could not claim him at that time because he needed Locke to be himself so he could convince the others to come back.

@Corivee thanks for being tech support on the mirror, mirror podcast!

Gotta get to the yard now! See ya later.

Just on the father sibling issue this may have been mentioned many times before but it has just struck me

Jacob as the father and MIB as the son we have all thought many times that Jacob is the father figure and MIB is the spoilt sibling.

This might explain why we know so little about both parties family.

@LReene – still giving your theories some thought. I can certainly see BEn and ELoise using Locke’s body for Jacob instead of MIB. But that would probably be due to MIB fooling them into it. Locke was all a set up by MIB.

I can also see the Jack/MIB connection because they have both felt trapped on the island. Jacob/Locke love the island and they both are content staying there. So if your theory does come true I will not be shocked.

I still feel that the Flash Sideways will be the final reality I am just not exactly sure how they arrive at that point. It will be a cool plot twist if MIB ends up telling the truth and was serious about giving everyone what he promised through the flash sideways.

@Corivee – I would have loved to see that in the theater. I wish they would show it an additional day. Thursdays are out for me.

Thanks for all the input today. This rewatch has been fun. It reassures me that our lost enjoyment can live on later. Though like Bonita I need my life back.

@Annietoo — I’m with you re: Locke. He’s a fighter. I, too, hope he ends up a hero.

@Bonita — thanks for the interview pointer about the seasons mirroring each other. Can’t wait to check that out!

05/20/2010
Go behind the scenes of the hit series
Live in HD at a movie theater near you

Don’t miss this compelling in-depth conversation with the masterminds behind ABC’s “Lost.” Hear executive producer Carlton Cuse and co-creator/executive producer Damon Lindelof reveal the challenges of crafting a finale that satisfies themselves as storytellers, and the show’s legion of fans.

They will be interviewed by New York Times entertainment editor Lorne Manly and the event will be broadcast Live via satellite from The TimesCenter in New York for only one night, on Thursday, May 20, at 8pmET / 7pmCT / 6pmMT and tape delayed at 8pmPT exclusively to select movie theaters across the U.S. and Canada.

Tickets on sale NOW! Enter your zip code above to find a theater near you.

@Carol — so funny how you mention old computers above. I took a computer programming class during college (to meet the math elective I didn’t want to bother with), and we were using DOS blue screen w/ white writing… Amazing how far things have come!

@Melissa and Carol — re: Daniel and discovering the variables…I’m basically just going to reword your dicussion here, and say that I agree with and follow what you’re saying. Daniel the scientist seems so intrenched in his fact-based world, that only equations w/ solid anwers make sense to him, i.e. 2 + 2 is always 4 and “whatever happened is always the only way things could have gone. In contrast, Daniel the love-bird realizes that, wait! people aren’t computers… we have the power to change things!

@Amaia — good call on the last name Strom. Why is that Miles’ last name? Hopefully we’ll see another orientation film.

Going to post this and then keep reading posts above…

Along with that, that was at the point in time when John had fallen down the well and was ready to turn the wheel. Richard telling John he was going to have to die originally was when they were at the drug plane after he had been shot by Ethan and then flashed.

If I am wrong on any of this, someone please correct me.

@ LReene – glad I never had to offer a pronoun for you, I wasn’t sure either, anyway, I think Candidate and Recruit aren’t mutually exclusive here. I felt Jack is/was Both.

@ Carol – I believe your mentioning Pierre’s multiple monikers as resulting from Ego is a good theory (which you credited to another thread, which I either missed, forgot or absorbed).

@James,Annie, Carole, KK and you, too LReene: it was Christian that told Lost he’d have to die just after he fell down the well.
Many other posters on different board (yep, that’s how addicted I am – I listen to Others) have noted that Christian wears different clothes during his appearances. This lends support that there is more than one Entity presenting as Christian. I wish I was so observant. Maybe during the Series Rewatch.

My daughter asked me today if I’ll be sad when LOST ends. I said no. I am kinda hoping I’ll get more done in my Real Life but I see the writing on the Cave Wall and I know I’ll back with You All Everybody in the Future.

No, i never noticed about the people looking up but I see your point about prior knowledge. There was definately a here we go again vibe, rather than a what the hell just happened vibe. Just like when MIB and Jacob are on the beach and one says, here they come (paraphrasing).

People come to the island and then its: let the games begin….

So where to start…….. Sorry if I don’t address posters by name, I’ve read ALL the posts, it’s just with so many of them, I already can’t remember who said what.

Someone above asked about the darts, and who was shooting them. That was Widmore’s group when they attacked FLocke’s camp to capture Jin in Season 6. BUT……. we first saw the darts back in Season 5 during one of the time flashes. Right after the “Frogurt FIRE!!” scene, when they were all trying to make their way to the creek. They flashed, and Sawyer picked up one in his foot. Evidently that particular flash put them sometime “after” what we are now seeing in Season 6.

Who originally told Lock he was going to have to die??? It was Richard…….. who had just heard it from FLocke. That was in 5-15 Follow The Leader. After taking over Locke’s form when they arrived on Ajira 316, FLocke took Richard and Ben out into the jungle on a trek. He was in a hurry and told eveyone else they had something to do but would be back later (paraphrasing here). When they got to a certain spot, FLocke told Richard that a man was going to come out of the jungle and to go over to him, take the bullet out of his leg, and to tell him that he had to bring everyone who left back to the island. And in order to do that, he was going to have to die. So, yes, it was Richard who told John that he was going to have to die, but it was FLocke from the future who told Richard to say it (just to be sure, I just rewatched that portion of 5-15 to verify it.

@corivee and others – The talk about how much Ben knew………… Did anyone else think it was strange that during the “Others book club meeting” (when 815 originally crashed), all the Others came rushing outside looking into the air as soon as the ground started shaking? I’ve watched that episode probably a dozen or more times and I swear they were all looking UP even before there was any noise or the plane was seen. I mean why would someone rush outside and look up, when the ground starts shaking? Maybe because it wasn’t the first time it had happened?

Oh, there are SO many other comments I want to make. But this is turning out long enough as it is. Probably more later………

These episodes really got me thinking about one of the main themes I dont see mentioned much which is: all the issues the character’s have with their fathers. As in life, I know this is a common literary theme. But when you consider the control factor of the losties fathers… Wow. They are all so intense! I mean look at Penny’s and Sun’s. And then you have Jack, Kate and even Ben has daddy issues. Hugo is really the only one with a decent father, and he only really came around once the money from the lottery came in.

Anyway, my point is, I think Jacob is like the father of the island and he is definitely a father figure in his interactions with the losties. He is the calm, peaceful, nurturing father they never had. I still dont know what his ultimate intentions are other than this game or experiment that he and MIB have going on.

Re: The “What ever happens, happens” contradiction
I think Faraday tells Sawyer and the rest this because he doesnt want them to try and mess with things because he doesn’t want anybody else ruining HIS plans. He says you cant change anything if you try you will fail but he still tells Desmond to go to Oxford and later tries to save young Charlotte.

New thoughts on Ben Linus:
I agree with Hammer and LReene’s comments about indications that Ben knew all about the time travel/alternate life when he turned the donkey wheel. Your observations eg: the winter coat, the passports, the “preferred customer at the hotel” all show he has done this before. He also asks the clerk what year it is. SO Ben, and I think Widmore and Eloise also, know all about the power of the island to send people to different times and realities and this is what Widmore wants to exploit. And what someone (Melissa?) said about the plane crashing and him wanting to know everything about the passengers…It gets me thinking that Ben had already traveled through time, had seen alt. realities, and maybe even met some of the passengers. It is almost like when he saw the plane crash, he had a look on his face like, “Here we go…..” Anticipation, deja vu, something familiar. Ben is a liar. As he told Ilana, I lied, that’s what I do. Ben knows more than he is letting on.

The Others:
Chang’s comment during his training video taping session regarding the others: He called them the “hostile indigenous people”. I agree with everyone’s posts above. Who are those people!! Indigenous?? How did they get there.

I dont even think about all the candidate, new Jacob, MIB stuff lately. My mind is now consumed with who knew what and when did they know it. And the significance of the special people like Desmond (the rules dont apply to you) And why was it Locke that had to die, why did MIB choose him, even richard couldn’t figure out why he chose Locke. So I will be very happy if these things are answered.

Cant wait for next week!

I hear ya on the lack of a table of contents on the Blu-Ray. Very frustrating.

@Melissa – I remember the variable and that is an excellent observation but as a non-science person I don’t understand how a variable could create a new “string”. Unless the string is like “Quantum Leap” where the string theory was that the string didn’t have to be straight, it could be bunched up and parts of it could overlap and touch other parts creating new futures.

Gotta admit even if I had paid attention in Science class I never took any quantum physics classes. Is this one of the classes in the Lost U? I’ll have to watch it. Anybody know what blu-ray disk it is on? My big complaint re: the blu-ray set is that it didn’t come with a table of contents. I don’t think a piece of paper with the contents on it would have set ABC back a lot and it would really help.

@Rich – Ben did have the internet and all the video hook ups to help him with finding out information on the Losties. I assume some of those computers were past dharma times. I still crack up when I see those computers with the green print. I remember having one and I was so thrilled with our first color monitor. I also remember the old days of 30 hours a month on AOL. Of course I am aging myself here.

I really appreciate ‘You All’ for pushing my brain! And so many good laughs here too (i.e. sneaking in a load of laundry, having a double life) ~ the writers of LOST have such a wonderful sense of humor, and it is absolutely reflected here among posters!

@ Rich ~ Great observations! — now I want to watch the episodes yet again! Yes, many doors, many choices… alternate universes, alternate endings

Man my heard hurts..someone please help!!

April 28th, 2010 at 6:31 am
Thanks guys but I am still wondering (just for a change) if MIB was not locke until his body came back how or who tells the real locke that he needs to die to pass this on to Richard as I thought this and the time shifts were in the past before the body came back.

Well that’s the beauty of time shifts. In this particular instance, the time jumping placed Fake Locke and Real Locke on the Island at the same time, so FLocke could tell Richard to tell RLocke he has to die. Real Locke (and the rest of the Losties) had shifted forward to post-Ajira.

Carol from Boston Says:

April 28th, 2010 at 7:15 am
One more thing, Daniel mentions in Because you left, that time is like a string and you can’t change the past and create a new string. But isn’t that what he did?

Yes. When he comes back from Michigan in Dharma time later in the season he has a new theory that the people are variables and that’s why he thinks he can change what happened.

@KK- In my opinion Ben knows a lot but I don’t think he knows something about the sideways. Although there are only two characters in the sideways who have something they wanted I think. They are Ben and Locke, both have a good relationship with their dads and even Locke has the love of his life with him.

@Annietoo- Great thought about Sun not travelling in time. I thought the other day maybe it was because she’s not a candidate.

Then, interesting questions you ask. Who are Eloise and Ben working for. My guess? Eloise is with the MIB, like I said after the last episode, I think she prefers her life in the sideways where she’s a powerful woman. Ben has been manipulated for a long time by the MIB.

@Rich – I was thinking the same thing about the choo-choo line. RE: the guys with the darts – Ben’s men trying to get Sayid? or Widmore’s?

Now watching little Charlie being born, nice moment but as Penny I would have liked to have a cleaner doctor. Yikes.

I want to start with the menu screen, camouflaged as an innocuous call back as always–the microwave as metaphor for Lost. Someone’s watching from outside the box. The lights go on. You do a few revolutions on the turntable. An alarm sounds. And then you’re cooked. I think this is the source for all the “open the door” references, two of which appear in “Because You Left.” Sun is very much put into a box by Widmore and calls out “open this door.” Later, Sawyer delivers his trademark “open the damn door” at the swan. This all leads me to conclude that there is no special box on the island, but rather that the island itself is the box that can grant whatever your heart desires (Jacob’s tapestry.)

How great was it when the camera, looking through Faraday’s eyes, focuses on two bore sites and it appears as if he’s staring into the eyes of unfathomable darkness. Not the first time they’ve set up visuals like that btw. I have a great screen cap of the cargo door of the plane that brought the O6 back, and it forms a pair of menacing eyes like you wouldn’t believe.

“I don’t see that happening.” Jack says it about Kate here, but I think she just repeated this line about Jack recently. The irony.

“Choo choo knows better than that. He goes into that tunnel, he’s never coming back.” To me Kate’s talking about the passage to hell, but I also think it sets up a door number one vs. door number two scenario where you either get your true love or the man-eating tiger. I think the company will divide and some will go through one door, while the rest choose the other.

Who are the guys with tranquilizer darts???????? I really hope they explain that.

@everybody – other thoughts that I have had. When Ben asked Jack about what happened to everyone – do you think he remembered about 1977 and them being part of Dharma and if Jack knew about the time flashes yet?

I also like the attention to detail they have which you realize when you watch things again. When Sayid wakes up in the hospital, he shifts to the side and asks “what happened” almost exactly like he did at the temple. He is also wearing black. I wonder if Sayid has ever worn a bright color in his life? Poor Sayid. He really is the man in black. Hey- wonder if that is intentional?

re: the time flashes if Jen and others are right and the island itself is a living thing – then instead of skipping, the island chose specific times for the flashes to occur, it also chose who it wanted to skip. Why else would only certain people flash. The island flashed to the time Desmond was there, when Jughead was there, when Boone died, and Aaron was born, when the plane crashed and when MIB was present as Locke so the real Locke could be told to die and finally during Dharma times so Daniel could change the future with Jughead.

Time to fit in one more episode, gotta run.

@LReene- well my family is not going to thank you because I think they lost me for some of this week. I am hooked now. I have this afternoon off and have a ton of stuff do before the kids get home but instead I am watching another ep
isode. I’ll do some laundry make it look like I am doing something, ha.
@KK- great minds think alike again, sorry I hadn’t seen your comment about Ben and his “this life” statement to Jack. Yes I do think a shirtless Sawyer was certainly a plus in this rewatch. I love your starburst catch.

@MPEW05 (hope I got that right) – Jack needed something of his dad’s to recreate the first flight that his dad was on. Jack’s grandfather had his father’s shoes.

@Greenberry – when first watching the episode last year it looked like Ben and Eloise had been working together for some time, but now we know it must have only been a couple of days. Do you think he saw Daniel’s book? That could explain his knowledge of mulitple “lives”.

@Melissa – great question re: Ben’s power and money, I always wondered about that myself. Why all the passports? Did he travel all the time and for what purpose? Remember after the donkey wheel he went to that hotel and told them he was a preferred guest, what was that all about?

@tvscifi and @hammer — I don’t think the Others are necessarily on either side either. Having been “advised” by Richard, who is on Jacob’s side, you would think they too are on on Jacob’s side, and perhaps they believe they are on Jacob’s side (like Ben), but since many of them continued to survive the wrath of MIB, it is apparent they are somehow useful to MIB’s side as well. The Others and their unclear role in all this shows me just how blurry the lines are. Lines between good and evil, Jacob’s motives and MIB’s motives, etc.

@LReene — I should have tuned in last night! I didn’t realize it was an enhanced version of Ab Aeterno. I’m just not convinced that there’s a clear-cut line between Jacob and MIB… I’m not sure there’s a good side and a bad side. And what if it never becomes entirely clear? What if the show never resolves the conflict? We’ll be able to discuss it for eternity!

Because he didn’t know it was MIB at that point, He thought it was Locke. And who would know better what Locke should do than Locke? Especially a Locke who says he came back from the dead and really seems to know what he’s talking about.

@Annietoo, I don’t think Sun returned to the Island for revenge. She tracked down Ben for revenge, but when he told her that Jin was still alive she went to the Island to look for him.

@Annietoo and tvscifi, love the many Changs theory!

Questions: Why is Richard uttering MIB words to Locke re: having to die to be a savior? also What was Locke ‘right’ about?… the island being important and needing protection? or simply that it was a mistake for Jack to leave (with the Oceanic 6) and that now they must all return?

Okay read your post again, and I think I understand about Locke being right, but still not about Richard being used by MIB. So interesting your thoery about both Jacob and MIB wanting the candidates to come back.

Well, now I can’t WAIT to se ewaht Jack does on that operating table!! And if that changes Locke/MIL

@Bonita and Carol — about watching more episodes… I’m going to wait until the end of this season, but then I’m going to watch the whole series from the very beginning. I can’t wait! My husband thinks I’ve lost it… He thinks I have this whole 2nd life with this blog and the show. He stopped watching during Season 3…

As far as off-island “appearances” go… I feel like there’s a 3rd option in addition to MIB appearances and spirit appearances. I think above someone mentioned it might be the island itself who can appear. I think I agree, or at least am of the mind that there’s something else at work too.

@James — you bring up an interesting point about Locke/Unlocke. It could definitely be a possibility that during the time jumping in Season 5, our Losties came in contact w/ Unlocke! I never thought of that…

Thanks for this photo! But…where’d it come from? When was it/at Wired?

@Bonita – I thought someone mentioned on a previous board why Marvin Candle used all the names. I think it had something to do with his ego and wanting to create a different persona for each hatch. But I could be totally wrong. I agree about wanting to watch all the episodes again, consider me sucked back in. I wonder if I’ll get anything done this week because I am watching more.

I thought it was interesting when Ben said to Jack “pack all you need from THIS life”, almost indicates a knowledge of the sideways life and how he can never get this life back.

For now I am not seeing Jack as MIB. I am also not sure about Jacob needing a vessel as he does have human form already and can travel where he wants and interact and even eat and drink. Whereas MIB seems to more limited. I am still convinced that the off island Christian was not MIB and that the Boat wasn’t him either. There were whispers on the boat indicating spirits right before Christian came.

That’s all I have time for now, I haven’t had time to read all the posts yet. BBL.

Sort of a Verbal Kint/Keyser Söze thing like from the film “The Usual Suspects.”

@Bonita I think the number of names that Pierre Chang has had in the video tapes – indicates the number of time-lines we have to date.

Yes! That’s an awesome theory. The Island is some sort of nexus point where all the time lines coverage. The various stations are staffed with people from other time lines and Chang uses other names to keep them separated (and straight in his own head). Also, there may be other Dr. Changs in those universes and he doesn’t want Dharma recruits going home and looking him up in the phone book.

@James I suspect is was fake Locke that suggested to Richard that Locke would make a great candidate, and that he would have to die, because he (MIB) planned to use his dead body to urge Ben to kill Jacob many years later. I don’t think Locke was always MIB. I do wonder which Christian told Locke to make ‘the sacrifice’ just before he turned the wheel – I guess it could have been the ‘real’ ghost.

But who actually starts the Locke must die off the island chain of events.

I remember Richard tells Locke in the time shifts and I think “Locke ” tells Richard to tell Locke when treating him.

But who tells “Locke” to tell Richard is it Unlocke Jacob or someone else.

My head hurts !

I just feel the instigator of lock dying and coming back is key

First, he knew exactly how to get to the wheel (He had to make the time travel chamber implode to get the wall to colapse to reach the chamber).

Second, he knew it was going to be COLD in that FDW chamber. He bundled all up with heavy coat, etc. before going in.

He also knew where the exit point was going to be on the planet. He had shuffled through his passports amd alternate personal effects before going into the chamber so he would have the correct documents.

There are probably a lot of other things that Ben “knew” also, but I just can’t think of them at the present moment. But “HOW”? Knowing the answer to these questions would go a long way in figuring things out too.

Oh, and to everyone else who also watched the enhanced version of Ab Aeterno last night, I am now more convinced than ever that it is MIB who is “representing” the God figure, and “Jacob” who is representing the persona of the Devil. I should have taken notes during the show. Maybe I can sum up my thoughts this evening.

@LReene – I like your thinking on the importance of the origin story for the Others being significant. It could also tie into explaining the vast Network Ben taps into off Island.

@KK & Greenberry – Yes, I remember it was Locke that was supposed to turn the wheel.

@Annie, too – multiple time lines is still a possibility but within this very Episode Pierre is introducing himself to the video taping as “Marvin Candle” and when interrupted is addressed as Dr Chang. So in this episode at least he has more than one moniker in a single time-line.

@ KK ~ Yes, that sounds right that Locke was supposed to turn the wheel rather than in-it-for-himself Ben ~~ Another time Ben searches for info is in his chat with Locke (when he was about to hang himself) – Ben gets what he needs from Locke and carries on to strangle him – was this an evil or purposeful act on Ben’s part — Locke supposedly needed to die, but Ben interrupted Locke’s own process — Yet soon after he is on a mission coordinated with Eloise —- Yes, contrasting missions

@greenberry — I agree, Ben has been one of the most “confounding and fascinating” characters on this show. Dear Henry Gale (remember way back when, when that’s who we think he is??)… so layered, so bug-eyed, so creepy, and at the same time you just want to hug him and tell him everything will be ok. Into that “confounding” group, I would like to throw Eloise and Widmore… I can’t wait to find out what they’re all about!! Here’s to hoping they’ll tell us.

@many posters above — Who are The Others? Now that is one Lost question that I would love to have answered before the show is over… but if I don’t get the answer, I’ll be ok w/ always wondering. I think it’s (fairly?)clear that they aren’t necessarily a group that arrived all at once (like the Black Rock crew or our Losties). The fact that Ben joined them as a defunct Dharminian could signify that they are made up of “rebels” through the ages…? I don’t know. They’re definitely mysterious.

@Bonita — much earlier, you ask if Ben actually knew what turning the wheel would do. I seem to remember that Ben turned the wheel knowing it would move the island, but I also seem to remember it wasn’t supposed to be Ben who turned the wheel?… but he again so desperately wanted to be important that he did it anyway. He was so convicted about moving/hiding/protecting the island… he was crying as he turned the wheel. But this stepping out of line (not following the rules maybe?) is what caused the skipping through time?

So when Ben asks Jack, “Did he [Locke] tell you what happened to the others after you left?” it definitely feels like he’s fishing for how much Jack knows. And in typical Ben style, his fishing can be interpreted 2 ways: 1. He doesn’t know what happened and wants to see if Jack knows and might share it with him inadvertently, or 2. He knows exactly what happened and wants to see if Jack knows too. Similar to how he was always questioning Locke about Jacob. Do you know more than I do? Do you? Do you?

Maybe I’m totally off… but I also remember that when Locke finally turns the wheel, he effectively stops the record from skipping… like he was supposed to be the one to turn the wheel all along?

What several of us are noticing is that rewatching Season 5 in particular is having way more significance to what is happening in Season 6 (in retrospect) and is helping with our final analysis of what we are seeing with these characters, as well as our last shot at theories

Speaking of shrewd, Ben in these two episodes really does come across as trustworthy, and full of well-meaning purpose ~ of course this is after he kills Locke and acts like he didn’t!

Wow, the Others… I’m glad I’m on this board to read your ideas and conclusions, since I don’t have a clue so far about their identity

We know from the time jumps in Season 5 that they were around in the 1950s, correct? At that time I think many assumed that they originally came on the Black Rock. Nope, Ab Aeterno squashed that idea. Only Richard arrived on the Black Rock, and according to the rest of what was revealed in Ab Aeterno, everyone else on the ship was killed by either the crew, or Smokey. So where DID they come from? If we knew that, it might go a long way in determining how much they all really knew, and what some of the hidden motives and knowledge of future events are. Personally I think Eloise’s “foreknowledge” goes a lot deeper than just reading Daniel’s manual. And Widmore as well as Ben seem to have lots of foreknowledge also.

In the beginning of this episode Hurley swears to Sayid that if he agrees to Lie and not support the truth (him) he will not be there for Sayid when someday he needs something. I wonder how or if that will play a pivotal role in our story’s end?

I think the fact that Ana Lucia stops Hurley and states she isn’t real, lends support for the Island Ghosts theories. I still think these “Ghosts” are manifestations of the Island and not really the Ghosts of the dead. I still don’t believe Michael appearing was a “trapped’ soul. His image and story were just the right one selected to influence Hurley at the time.

I am left wondering what else Daniel was doing in those missing two hours? Anybody have any ideas?

Also, I really thought the convenience store Chick said, “It looks like you ‘Eat’ Shi Zus” Which I thought was a bit funnier than ‘You heart’ them.

@ KK ~ great observations! (starburst pattern, Eloise’s equations) and GOOD CALL re: “THIS life” & alternate universes ~ So you think perhaps Ben was aware that Jughead would eventually be released? Ben has been one of the most confounding and fascinating characters on all of TV!

Still thinking about ‘good’ and ‘evil’ in relation to LOST and specifically to Ben and Widmore ~ is killing ever good or justified? Various reasons: accident, mercy, sacrifice, self-defense, revenge, anger, positioning, power ~ Both Ben and Widmore have done an awful of of it (or ordered it) ~ Ben has shown some remorse in causing his daughter to be shot ~ I can’t recall Widmore being remorseful about anything, but simply sad that his daughter hates him

That’s it for now… just thoughts ~ I would like to see Locke rescue himself from MIB ~ I don’t like or trust him (or her) at this point.

Two times “then god help us all”: 1. In Because You Left, Miles’ dad says it when talking about what could be released if they drill too far. 2. Eloise says it when talking about Ben getting everyone back to the island. Interesting how we’ve heard that phrase so many more times since.

Speaking of Eloise… several discussions ago, there was talk of her double startburst broach. In The Lie, that pedulum she’s working with makes several starbursts with chalk lines. I don’t have a theory here, I’m just making connections in imagery — seeing those starbursts being drawn by that machine holds a lot more weight in this rewatch.

It’s also interesting to me that she’s scribbling frantically on a chalkboard, much like Daniel is at Oxford when Desmond comes to visit. Makes me wonder if she did get a hold of his notebook after she accidently shot him on the island… She’s definitely working on some pretty involved equations.

One last thing: Another testament to Darlton’s intimate grasp of pop culture. Cheech Marin, as he’s sneaking Sayid past the police that are staked in front of the house, waves nervously and says, “Officers.” Anyone who’s seen Cheech and Chong movies has to get a chuckle out of that.

Still mulling over the Ben line to Jill (she seems mysterious too!) about needing Locke safe (and dead) to bring back for his, or rather Eloise’s, mission… It begs the questions: Who is Ben working for? and who is Eloise working for? And are either of them good or evil or both or neither and/or self-serving??

Thanx for the support, mle, re: my “evil” discussion ~ I absolutely meant for it to be Lost-focused (but throwing in politics, while being illustrative, was a mistake since it can push unnecessary buttons with fellow posters) ~ Interestingly the writers threw in a line about going back in time to remove Hitler (evil) ~

we have seen A LOT of pettiness, selfishness, lying, manipulation and killing and attempted killing… from Ben and Widmore for sure ~ things seem to get a lot more grey with Jacob and MB ~ Jacob allows (causes?) Nadia’s death and he taunts Ben into killing him (in the name of allowing choices) ~ MIB/MIL manipulates with promises, throws Desmond down a well, organizes the death of Jacob ~ no wonder we don’t know (for sure) what is what!!

In Season 6, we ponder Jack’s purpose in going back in time for a “do-over” — he wanted a second shot with Kate? He wanted to bring back those that had gotten killed? He wanted to remove evil? He simply wanted to block out the last three years? He certainly seems to regret his choice afterwards.

In retrospect in Season 5, we analyze the purpose of Jack leading the Oceanic 6 off the island ~ previously, he and Locke were in constant conflict… Locke the believer in fate and destiny and Jack the pragmatist that just wanted to get home ~ then his life falls apart and he eventually becomes convinced that he must return to the island with the coaxing of Ben and more importantly the post-death coaxing of Locke

So back to Ben and Eloise (and Widmore) and their motivations for getting the Oceanic Six (or some semblance of it) to return to the island… Ben ‘seems’ well-meaning and Eloise seems all-knowing and they both seem panicky (Widmore, in the next episode Jughead, wants Desmond to stay away from the island and simply keep his daughter safe ~ why and when does he change his mind?) When watching the first time around, it seemed like Ben and Eloise are both working for good, for Jacob (if he is good)? Now that we are seeing Season 6 and we know that Eloise is depserate for her son Daniel to be alive, and Ben killed Jacob, but was supposedly transformed through his encounter with Ilana. Anyhoo… must run, but more thoughts to come after You all add you 2 + 2+ 2 + 2…. cents

At that time I know I used to listen and I didn’t go to the board, I think I emailed Jen instead. Like others I felt too imidated to post. But once I started I realized how friendly everyone was, and I was hooked. So for all you people on the fence, come post with us and join the fun.

Off for a crazy busy day. Have a great day everyone. If I do have a flash sideways double, I could sure use your help with my schedule today.

@mle in Colorado – Exactly! The POV on who is good and who is evil is the kicker in trying to envision Jack as MIB. But as I pointed out in a previous post, if there has to be a good/evil-God/Devil aspect to it, then MIB position of “All are corruptable” fits in more with God like of thinking than the Devil. If we can get past the good/evil-God/Devil, then either could be either. Make sense?

Sorry, kind of rushed in trying to explain my thoughts. Have to go to work this morning. Bummer. lol Hopefully this thread will have lots to read by the time I get home tonight

More later…

I thought it was interesting that Miles’ dad says (when he gets taken down to where the crew is drilling), “There are rules, rules that cannot be broken.” Somehow I think the Dharma Initiative (or at least Marvin) knows the big picture, too.

Favorite line: Hurley saying to Sayid, “Maybe if you ate more comfort food, you wouldn’t have to go around shooting people.” lol

Ok, come clean you guys! Did you want to rewatch this because Sawyer is shirtless the whole time???

@ Bonita ~ Yes, hard to stop! Are we addicted to this show or what?! Good questions re: Ben and Daniel — Ben states somewhere in S5 to Sun I think “Yes, I lied, that’s what I do.”

@ Beth ~ Yes, Ben is every which way

@LReene ~ I’m with you on the Locke reclaiming himself from MIB idea, just not sure about Jack yet… but I like your question about candidates vs. recruits

Be careful about ever starting a sentence with “We can’t even…” ala Frogurt (wow that Neil was a wound-up dude)

Anyway, my thoughts from seeing “Becasue You Left” again:

I still wonder why Pierre has so many different names, are they just Aliases? If so to what purpose?

When Jack says, “I don’t see that happening” to Ben regarding getting the other 4 of the Oceanic 6 (They assume Hurley is there for the taking) it directly echoes Kate saying this to MiL in this season.
It still bothers me that Jack never asks Ben why they have to go back in Season 5 and now in Season 6 he has the opportunity to ask MiL but drops is inquiry just before this would logically come up.

I have always wondered if Ben actually knew what turning the Wheel would do? So it’s hard to read him when he is asking Jack, if he knew what happened to the others when he left?

My theory of the Island being at least as significant a character as our Black and White players was reinforced here when Richard says to Locke, “The Island will do the rest” I think it is more than a matter of Faith.

How does Daniel know the rules don’t apply to Desmond?

ie: It seemed to be very important to “everyone in the know” to get Locke’s dead body back to the island. Why???? So that MIB could take over his likeness? That for some reason just doesn’t jibe with me. Especially when they are all supposedly such loyal followers of Jacob. Now admittedly, MIB was the one who took over Locke’s likeness, but personally I don’t think that was their intent for bringing him back. I think their intent was that his dead body would be a vessel for Jacob. Could it maybe end up that the sideways Locke ends up going back to the island and reinhabits the corpse of dead Locke? Maybeeeeeeeee lol

So where does that leave Jack then? If he is leaving for the island and can NEVER come back……….. the only replacement I can think of would be the next MIB.

One additonal note……. taking this scenario into Season 6. I think the writers/producers are trying very hard to muddy the waters between a “Candidate”, and a “Recruit”. The way I read it, a “Candidate” is someone to replace Jacob. Where a “Recruit” is someone to be on team MIB. In the last episode “The Last Recruit”, if Jack was indeed this “Last Recruit”, then that would rule him out from being “The Candidate” to replace Jacob. Right??

Of someone from “You All Everybody” would like to shoot down any (or all) of what I’ve said, that would be fine with me

Richard to Locke: “The only way to save the island, John, is to get your people back here” and “You’re gonna have to die, John.” Richard has been shown to be connected to Jacob, by being given instructions by him. Therefore, it makes sense that Jacob is in need of Locke to sacrifice himself for the island (and replace Jacob?). Of course, so far MIB has taken Locke over (I believe this is due to that Jack did not comply in time to get everyone back to the island). Could Locke be resurrected now that he is near death in the FSW, and return to his destiny of replacing Jacob?

Ben to Jack: “You’re NEVER coming back!” This could indicate that Jack will be in service of the island forevermore (if Ben the liar is to be trusted), and I suppose that could be in the service of MIB ~~ Also, it is Jack that convinces everyone to lie (supposedly to protect the other Losties from Widmore), and this causes many problems and does not sound too Jacob-ish ~ However, I believe he becomes remorseful about this, and now WANTS to return to the island (to represent who??)

But I still find it terribly confusing to figure out where Ben and Widmore and Richard fit in…

Widmore is REALLY POMPOUS!! “I WILL be respected, Sun!” He is terribly obnoxious as a young man, even. I can’t recall if Widmore has EVER mentioned either Jacob or Smokie (wish I had a better memory!). Also, Initially Widmore wants Desmond to stay way from the island (to protect his daughter), and now in season 6 he brings him to the island himself.

Ben has mentioned Jacob often (although there is obviously resentent there!). He is very involved: being sneaky and self-serving, killing Locke, and getting Jack and the other “candidates” organized to return to the island with Locke’s body. “Keep him safe, Jill, because if you don’t everything we’re about to do won’t matter at all”

Best line (among many best lines) ~ Hurley: “I need a cool code name.”

The actor playing Aaron is the curtest ever! Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6 ~ will he have a future purpose?

Hurley crying when he tells his mother the whole island story touched me more this time around; it is nice to see that, in their way, his parents are caring and really love him.

Ben also told Jack to pack anything that he wanted because he was NEVER coming back. All indications in my book that Ben knew a whole lot more than what we are being led to believe now.

As for what Ben was retrieving from behind the register, my guess would be that it was the gun he was going to use to kill Penny. He told Jack that he was checking out (so it must have been his room). I’m going to take a look at it one frame at a time a little later tonight and if I can see anything, I will post it. But I’m not so sure they even showed what it was that he had.

Questions:

1. What did Ben pull out of that air conditioning vent?
2. What was Ben organizing with Jill the butcher? Did he know what was going on with MIB and Jacob? Did he have some other objective in coming back to the island? He tells Jill that if they don’t get Locke’s body back then “God help us all.” What did he think he was going to accomplish by bringing back John?
3. What did Daniel look at in his journal that made him certain that Desmond could change things by going to see his mother?

In general it seems like they wanted us to think that Ben was still in control of things and knew what was going on…only in the end of Season 5 we find out he didn’t know anything…confusing!!