Next: “Everybody Loves Hugo” (Episode 6-12)

“Everybody Loves Hugo” brought some memorable moments, from touching to downright shocking. We got a good dose of pyrotechnics, and a surprisingly blunt explanation to the perennial mystery of “the whispers.” Once again we saw some of our characters part ways, but we also saw our candidates come together sooner than we’d anticipated. And perhaps in keeping with the inherent intensity of this final season, this Hurley-centric episode was fortunately not overloaded with comic relief. Yet, on the heels of an epic Richard Alpert tale and a brain-busting Desmond episode, this week’s entry felt more like the sharp intake of breath before a grand declaration, a mechanically necessary repositioning of game pieces for the few chapters remaining ahead.

On the island, Unlocke unpacks a little bit more of his game plan… or at least fleshes out his cover story. The candidates’ return to the island was possible only together, and so then must they be reunited to leave. I’ve been wondering if Widmore’s return was to exploit the island, rather than to do the right thing… but now that Unlocke says Widmore is only after power, I’m more inclined to think he might actually be trying to save the world, after all. It seemed telling when Unlocke agreed with Desmond that the island had it in for everyone. And UnLocke, of course, had it in for Desmond. The way Terry O’Quinn’s face twitched moments before pushing Desmond down the magnetic well sent shivers down Jen’s spine. But despite Desmond’s fall, I’m confident we’re not quite done with our favorite Scottsman.

I enjoyed Hurley’s double bluff, first pretending to back Richard’s plan (only to blow the Black Rock to bits), then pretending to get direction from Jacob. It was great to see Richard called him on the ruse (“Jacob never tells us what to do”), and to see Hurley still play it cool. And in terms of repeating themes and scenarios, we again see sides chosen, and a group dividing in the forest. Miles and Ben follow Alpert, while Jack, Sun, and Frank follow Hurley. It’s a nice coincidence that Hurley’s fellow candidates chose to go with him, and that doesn’t bode well for what may be our last splinter group.

Jen is definitely warming up to Jack, though I’m not sure how to read his turn in this episode. He also knew Hurley was bluffing, but still went along with him because he’s concluded it’s time to trust other people. There are some things he can’t fix. That’s a good lesson for control-freak Jack, I suppose, but the epiphany sounds very similar to the one he had in Season 5. During his DHARMA days, he decided not to act, but rather wait for his moment. That didn’t turn out so well, so… now he’s going to take even less initiative? That’s not going to work, since Jacob told Hurley that Jack indeed has something he needs to do.

Michael’s return was odd. It provided some catharsis in his apology to Hurley, but the big “reveal” seemed really underplayed. Tonight, Hurley suddenly concludes that “the whispers” are essentially the voices of the dead “who can’t move on,” and Michael says he’s right. Is that it? The island is purgatory, after all? Over the past five seasons, there seemed to be some significance to when and where the whispers were heard (by people who don’t otherwise have communion with the dead), and a fair amount of theorizing was based on meticulous transcripts of what they were saying. My favorite theories involved DHARMA experiments or some other group of “observers,” or maybe a side-effect of time travel (or even the flash-sideways). I’m hoping there’s more to them, but probably not.

Even odder was the abrupt departure of Ilana. Kudos to the writers for avoiding another Arzt joke, but her death certainly frustrates people like me, who had just begun to accept that this “new character” was key to the bigger picture through her off-island connection to Jacob. The writers even let Ben comment on this curious development. But, he concludes, the island was merely done with her, and it will likely soon be done with everyone. We’re definitely sensing a theme, here.

And what to make of Miles? He finally has another conversation with Hurley about talking to dead people, but his own expertise is not even mentioned. And while Hurley seems to conclude that “dead people are more reliable” than the living, I’m wondering why Hurley isn’t more skeptical. His first reaction to Michael seemed the natural one. But something changed Hurley’s mind, and led him to blow up the Black Rock. What was in the bag he found in the camp? And while trying to blow up the plane was a plan that was apparently going to get everyone killed, walking right into Locke’s camp was also a heck of a gamble.

Their arrival was, in fact, foretold by Unlocke when he told Sawyer, “There’s a difference between doing nothing and waiting.” He knew the other candidates would come to him. And I was glad to see both groups reunited tonight, though. I’d assumed we’d have to wait for the finale. Can Sun and Jin’s reunification be put off much longer?

For those clamoring for a resolution to the Libby storyline, the flash-sideways in “Everybody Loves Hugo” brings direct relief. It doesn’t explain how she came to be in the institution with Hurley in the original timeline, but who cares? It was worth it to see Hurley struck by lightning in the Mexican restaurant, and to see him finally see “the truth” on their long-delayed picnic on the beach. In some respects, the flash-sideways felt like one giant checkmark on the long list of “LOST” mysteries. But Jorge Garcia and especially Cynthia Watros sold it. The date was nice, but I was actually a bit misty-eyed during the rec room scene when Libby again heard that Hurley had no memory of her. It’s hard to imagine what depth her character might have brought to the show had Libby survived beyond Season Two.

The final scene, though, was a hell of a twist. The tension was built masterfully, with Ben rightfully suspicious of a man staking out a school parking lot, and Desmond’s fixation on Locke as he wheeled his way past. Then, bam! Locke is flat on his back, in shock. I was half expecting the scene to close with a close up of his toes.

It is curious, though, that Desmond was content to subtly suggest that Hurley go with his instincts in his curiosity about Libby, but then decides to take a much more direct role in Locke’s introduction to “the truth.” Whereas Hurley’s connection with Libby echoes the “love” invoked for Charlie and Claire (and Desmond and Penny, and Daniel and Charlotte), poor Locke had to get the “near death experience” treatment instead. Presumably, “love” would be less effective for Locke, given his good relationship with Helen in the flash-sideways, but… how would Desmond know? And how is he, so far, picking out our island survivors from among the hundreds of presumably innocent or uninvolved people aboard Oceanic 815?

Notes and Notions:

  • The opening slideshow, narrated by Dr. Pierre Chang, was fun. It seemed to include a few real-world photos of Jorge Garcia. He got his dog, Nunu, onto “LOST” via the shot of him in front of the Hawaiian Humane Society (its logo clearly visible). And I’d bet those were real baby pictures, too.
  • I liked how even “lucky” Hurley was intimidated by talking to women, a trait that goes back to Starla at the record store in Season Two. I don’t know what happened to his blind date, Rosalita, but it was also nice to hear that Grandpa Tito is apparently still around in the flash-sideways.
  • Jen loved how subtly Henry Ian Cusick played the faint moment of confusion after Desmond immediately came up with the name “Charlie” for his son when confronted by Ben.
  • It’s a small thing, but I love how one of the extras (a long-haired Asian woman) looked perplexed in the scene where Hurley meets Desmond in the Mr. Cluck’s restaurant. Hurley yells, “What?” And we see her clearly reacting as if Hurley might be yelling at her, rather than Desmond. A lot of times, background extras in scenes are a little too oblivious to the action we’re watching. It was a nice touch.
  • The creepy boy, who Desmond saw, is back to haunting Unlocke. His smile was disconcerting, taunting, in the same vein of his earlier admonition, “You know the rules. You can’t kill him.” The more we see of him, the more he seems like a young Jacob. Gloating Jacob.
  • After Locke’s “Blow Up Everything That Can Get Us Off The Island Tour,” tonight we had the “Blow Up Everything (and Everyone) That Can Blow Up Everything That Can Get Us Off The Island Tour.”
  • What is Unlocke the Wood Whisperer carving? Claire already has a crib for her scary squirrel baby. Part of me would like to see him recreate Mr. Eko’s carved “Jesus Stick.”
  • Looks like Richard’s back to declaring, “We’re dead, we’re all dead!”
  • Books: The Russian book Hurley found among Ilana’s belongings was “Notes from the Underground” by Fyodor Dostoyevsky. Wikipedia says it is considered by many to be the world’s first existentialist novel.
  • Locations: The awards ceremony was filmed at the Koolau Golf Club/First Presbyterian Church in Kaneohe. The “fajita fieldtrip” to Spanish Johnny’s was filmed at Bandito’s Cantina at Pearlridge. The Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute was again the YWCA on Richards Street downtown, and Mr. Cluck’s Chicken Shack was again the Popeye’s Chicken on Dillingham Boulevard. The beach where Hurley and Libby had their date was the west end of Ala Moana Park. And the parking lot where Desmond met Ben and hit Locke was August Elementary School in Waipahu. And, of course, the slideshow included shots of the Hawaiian Humane Society, the Honolulu Zoo, and the box company exterior at Gentry Pacific Design Center.

What did you think? We’d love your thoughts for our podcast. Please comment below, and share your reaction, thoughts, theories and theories with fellow fans. Or, you can email us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LOSTline at (815) 310-0808.

375 Responses to “Next: “Everybody Loves Hugo” (Episode 6-12)”

  1. Carol from Boston says:

    @Stephen and Bonita re: answers – I agree, kind of like that “careful what you wish for scenerio” we might not like the answers we get so maybe it is good to leave some unanswered.

    As for the whispers – It isn’t so much as being mad, just frustrated trying to place it all within the context of the show what it means for them to be stuck on the island and unable to move on? Are they all bad? Are they being “corked”?

    Are there six episodes left including the finale or 6 episodes till the finale? Loved the preview for next week. Perfect song for it. Gene Wilder is really creepy in that song. Willy Wonka was testing all of them to run his company, kind of like Jacob. 🙂

  2. Stephen from NH says:

    The ghosts of the dead being trapped on the island does not necessarily require a supernatural explanation. I am reminded of the Riverworld series by Philip Jose Farmer. At a certain point it is revealed that the “soul” of each person is a form of energy that normally dissipates at death but which the aliens were capturing using advanced technology located at the center of the earth. I believe that they called it a “wathan-catcher”. Perhaps the electromagnetic wells serve a similar purpose on the island.

  3. tvscifi says:

    The Willy Wonka song sounds different than from the movie, I wonder of Gene Wilder recorded it just for Lost?

  4. Rickey says:

    Am I the only one who thought the “mysterious boy” looked 2 or 3 years older in this episode? Compare his face here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:MysyeriousKid.jpg and his body here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:6x04_HelloCreepyBoy.jpg from his first appearance with his face and upper body here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:6X12_justignorehim.jpg from last night’s episode. His face is less round, and his upper body seems more developed. I at first questioned if they were brothers cast to play the same character getting older, approx age 11/12 the first time and age 14/15 the second. But according to imdb they’re the same actor, so that makes me wonder if this were just the product of a growth spurt between filming episodes, or an intentional device to show him aging, calling to mind Locke’s experience with Walt looking “taller.” The biggest clue for it being intentional is that he has near-platinum blonde hair in the first sighting, and darker going brown hair in the second. I’ve known a lot of people who were blonde as children, but slowly went brunette as they got older. I know LOST has never been too competent in the hair department, but to me it still feels like a clear choice being made. I think it would be nice if the next time we see him he is in his late teens or early 20’s. What the point of this would be, I have no idea…
    Or, the other option is I’m the only one who sees this, and there’s nothing behind it at all.
    ALSO: I read some people questioning why Libby was in the mental institution in the original timeline. Wasn’t it because her husband died?
    I still hold on to the theory that the “Dave” of Hurley’s imagination was actually the ghost of her dead husband, and possibly that’s why he wanted Hurley to jump, because he was getting too close to Libby.
    And I still believe she worked for Widmore and that’s why she gave Desmond The Elizabeth… But with so few episodes left, I’m sure neither of those will be proved or disproved. So I’m just happy to have her back smooching Hurley in some reality.

  5. Forgive me if this is redundant, I haven’t had the time to read the rest of the comments yet.

    What if, the “people who can’t move on” is less purgatory and more about the clashing realities? Michael appears on the island as a dead man, and yet, for all we know, he is alive in the other reality. It’s another play on the Donnie Darko theory I had a while ago (Hurley is able to communicate with people from other realities, even though he thinks they are dead), so it’s just a thought.

    This episode wasn’t completely weak, and there were a few moments that were beautiful (Libby kissing Hurley on the beach was AWESOME), but there were some cringeworthy moments (I thought the editing of the opening scene between Hugo and his mother was awful),that made this a weaker episode than the previous two. However, given the strength of the “Ab Aeterno” and “Happily Ever After”, I don’t envy any episode having to follow them up.

    Jorge Garcia proved once again that he’s a great character actor, and I hope he’s able to find some great roles after Lost is over. And Cynthia Watros? Man, I’ve missed her.

  6. Josh says:

    Carol from Boston has it down to a t in regards to the song that was used from Willy Wonka. I was going to mention that, but you beat me to it. So instead, I’ll just start talking about the episode at hand.

    Illana blowing up was something I didn’t expect. Before the season even started, I checked websites to see what this season would be about and whatnot and it mentioned Illana and it said she would have an important role in this season, but the only important thing I saw her do was wanting to kill Ben, yet not following through, just to be blown up. I know she was chosen by Jacob to protect the candidates, but I was expecting her to live until the final episode.

    Hugo now sees that he had/has a life on the island after kissing Libby and he didn’t have to go through a near death experience like Desmond.

    Now the final scene involving Desmond and Locke, I don’t think was Desmond trying to give Locke a near death experience to see his island life, but was to actually kill him. I think being pushed into the well and landing gave Desmond a near death experience, thus letting him see his other life and since it was Locke who pushed him, he wanted to get revenge on the Locke in the other lifetime. It’s a bit of a stretch, yet plausible.

    Desmond has a bigger role that Illana and I think Desmond will manage to get out of the well one way or another and then will be on the search to end Unlocke.

  7. Cathy says:

    Love the show! Love the podcast! You guys do an AMAZING job!

    This was a HFC episode for me. I couldn’t believe the opening scene! I guess we all thought nothing would happen to the characters who had been touched by Jacob, so what happened to Ilana? Was it that the island had no more use for her, as Ben said? .And shades of Arnst – classic!

    I love the way they string us along. It’s like they throw out the bait, get your interest, tug on the string so you’re following (against your better judgement) and then – BAM! As Desmond was standing beside the well, with Flocke circling around, I could hardly pay attention to what he was saying because my brain kept repeating, “Is he going to push him in? No, he wouldn’t! Or would he?” And then the whole sequence with Desmond in his car, talking to Ben (also a superb scene). I thought he was looking for an opportunity to talk to Locke, when BAM! HFC! I should know by now, but I’m still left picking my jaw up off the floor!

    I’m sorry to lose Ilana. She seemed like a tragic character, and she was the catalyst to Ben’s redemption. With her gone, I wonder if Ben will relapse into his deranged former self.

    Jack was making me absolutely ill, but I can stomach him now after his explanation to Hurley about letting others take control.

    I think the cinematography of this season is really interesting. Many of the on-island scenes are harsh and grainy. I’m wondering what kind of effect they are trying for here. Last night the light effects had Hurley glowing.

    I wondered about the bag as well. We’ve seen the bag with the 2 stones, the bag of diamonds, and the bag containing Jacob’s ashes. I thought I heard whatever was inside clink together, so I’d be inclined to think stones. Ironically, diamonds are STONES formed from carbon (ashes?) exposed to extreme heat and pressure.

    Whispers – I’m not liking the explanation they gave. I’ve always thought it was overlayering of experiences, like small holes in the space/time continuum. Or I’ve thought it was part of the manifestation of Smokey. Maybe it ties in to the boy we keep seeing. Could he be the one taking on the personae of Walt, Christian, etc.? Remember, Claire made a distinction between Christian and her “friend.” (Although that might have been to throw us off.)

    I haven’t given up on Sayid yet. Is he shrewd enough to “play” Smokie? He’s very driven by loyalty, and there was that whole issue between him and Jack regarding TRUST. Also, Jacob seemed to consider him VERY CAREFULLY before deciding that Hurley should take him to the temple. Was he trying to determine if there was enough good in Sayid to overcome the bad? Whatever it was, it seemed like a far-reaching plan. I thought it was strange that Sayid just walked away after Locke told him he’d taken care of Desmond. And when he first encountered Desmond with Widmore’s people, he didn’t have the same coldness in his eyes. It was also odd that he let Tina Fey go. I mean, he IS a cold blooded killer. What’s one more tally on the body count? Maybe he wanted them to know. Maybe he wanted them to come.

    Sorry for the lengthy post. So much to discuss.

  8. tvscifi says:

    @ Stephen for NH

    You’re right. The Riverworld technology explains just about everything going on, including why the man in Black can only take the form of people who died; they are now in the database of available resurrections.

    In Riverworld the souls were captured, new bodies were manufactured and souls re-downloaded into the new bodies. I think this tech, along with time travel, is ultimately going to be the explanation. It was interesting there was a spring in the temple with healing powers, just like the river in Riverworld where the dead were reborn (and would be reborn every time they were killed).

    It could explain how Patchy kept coming back
    How Ricard can live forever
    And how the ghosts are trapped on the Island

    But there is going to have to be a component of virtual reality, or else how can you explain candidates not being able to kill themselves, or the numbers or all the other “supernatural” things? Something, it would seem is manipulating reality at a god-like level.

    What if everything that happened on the Island and all the flashbacks we saw in seasons 1-4 are a fabrication created by Jacob.

    Similar to the movie “Dark City,” I suspect Jacob kidnapped Oceanic flight 815 and put our Losties into some sort of simulation. He gave them memories of lives they never led to see what is nature and what is nurture. Would someone’s character play out differently if they had different experiences?

    The whispering ghosts are those that have failed the simulation. If you do the wrong things in the simulation have to stay in a time out until the simulation is over.

    The people in the temple run the machinery that makes the simulation possible.

    The coincidental meeting of our characters in the flashbacks are do to the fact there are only so many people in the simulation.

    When the Oceanic 6 got off the Island, were they still in the simulation? Is the sideways world is just another simulation that Jacob is running? Is the last episode of Lost, the final real world?

    Makes me think of the movie “eXistenZ,” which was a virtual game, within a game, within a game.

  9. Barbara says:

    Okay, so here’s a totally crazy theory….

    Dave appeared to Hurley on the island (as well as in the mental hospital). Does that make him one of the tortured souls whose spirit is stuck on the island and can’t move on? Maybe the Dave Hurley sees was Libby’s husband. Maybe he (and his sailboat) were on the island at some previous time and this is why Libby was in the mental institute in the first place. Because she has some memory of a previous reality…

  10. Carol from Boston says:

    @Cathy – if Jack is indeed the one to take Jacob’s place he has to learn to let go and not fix everything. Remember Jacob can’t tell anybody what to do, it has to be free will. (of course he manipulates them and claims it is free will, IMO) So Jack cannot take Jacob’s place if he still feels the need to interfere and make things right and fix them.

    What has Jack heard on several occasions “let it go Jack”. Didn’t he hear that when he was in the hydra station through the loud speaker?

    I also feel that Jack will never be able to keep his promise, it isn’t in his nature to just stand by. He tried that last year and where did it get him? He’ll wait it out and choose his time to interfere and if if this is like every other season, he’ll screw things up yet again.

  11. Jason B in Raleigh says:

    What a great episode. The writer of this episode is obviously a fan of Bruce Springsteen because not only did Hurley’s blind date have the name “Rosalita”, the date was at Spanish Johnny’s. Spanish Johnny being one of the characters in the song Incident on 57th Street. Both songs are from the album “The Wild, the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle.” Read into that what you will.

  12. MT Breeze says:

    @Carol – It’s my understanding there are four episodes left PLUS the two hour finale, which gives us six hours of “Lost.”

  13. Coolpeace says:

    Hello all :

    I have only read to last night’s comments. I have only a limited amount of time this afternoon. Usual apologies regarding possible redundancies. I realize that my post will be long but my head is busting to share my thoughts with you all everybody.

    Random thoughts re Michael and the Whispers :

    I tend to agree that the answer to the Whispers was blatantly served but I think that it will not be the last we hear of them. And if that is all we get, I am fine with that too.

    I don’t trust Michael and it fact think he may be in service to MIB. Since we believe that MIB can no longer change forms (bodies) since the death of Jacob (as mentioned in the Official Podcast – and mentioned by Ilana, may she RIP), he may be recruiting lost island souls to do his biding. He may have offered Michael a deal, similar to Sayid or Richard by agreeing to reunite him with Walt or letting him believe he could leave the Island and be able to see Walt – or something along those lines.

    Random thoughts re: Desmond :

    I believe that Desmond is aware of both realities. I don’t think he was trying to kill Locke, rather to get him (1) to see his Island self – Desmond could not use the love angle since Island Locke did not have a love on island, he had to use the near death angle. (2) Ultimately to get him to the hospital where Jack just may “fix” him (solve his spinal injuries).

    MIB (Locke) did not trust Desmond, since he was important to Widmore and also since he seemed to not be afraid of him – if Desmond has no fears then MIB can not manipulate him or control him.

    Island Locke was not trying to kill island Desmond when he push him in the well, because of the rules but was rather getting him out of commission and away from Widmore. But I believe that to be a miscalculation on MIB’s part. Widmore seemed to want Desmond to be placed in proximity to the pockets of electromagnetism… and MIB just delivered Desmond to were he needs to be.

    I think that we were not shown a conversation that must have taken place between Widmore and Desmond prior to Desmond being taken by Zoe to “meet” Sayid. That conversation will ultimately be revealed later and will give us the instructions that Widmore gave to Desmond about what he needs to do and ultimately the sacrifice he will need to make.

    Other random thoughts :

    Did not see Illana’s explosive end coming. Will we see her again?

    It did not surprise me to see Ben follow Richard. Ben knows Richards since he was a child and is use to following him. So he went back to something familiar to him. Miles on the other hand… not sure why, other than taking what he said at face value. He may become valuable to Widmore or Richard with his ability.

    The reunion at the hospital will be interesting – how will Kate and Sawyer and Miles get there?

    Don’t like seeing Sawyer and Kate reduced to one-liner whiners, but I guess that will change now that the group has come together… MIB will have his hands full. Watch out !!

    The young boy – definitely had a L’Oreal moment with the change of hair color. Are they twins … shout out to “Bad Twin” … can twins be identical and have different hair color? Maybe they are brothers… MIB and Jacob. But I like the twins idea. When MIB was speaking to Richard in Ab Aeterno and saying that Jacob could be persuasive, he sounded nostalgic like he was remembering better times.

  14. Mimi says:

    @Coolpeace – Technically and biologically identical twins CANNOT have different hair color. Identical twins have the same genome (gene sequence) and phenome (expression of that gene sequence.)

    That said… I agree the two boys (played by the same actor) are twins or, as I’ve been thinking for awhile, two parts of a single being.

    I also think both time lines are real and happening simultaneously. I’ve posted this before, but I think it warrants another look. Do you know the famous illustration of the quantum theory paradox of Superposition, Schrödinger’s cat?

    Schrödinger’s cat serves to demonstrate the apparent conflict between what quantum theory tells us is true about the nature and behavior of matter on the microscopic level and what we observe to be true about the nature and behavior of matter on the macroscopic level. For in-depth explanation try
    http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci341236,00.html

    Without explaining the entire theory, basically it tells us that until the box is opened, the cat is both alive and dead.

    I think that the island time and the flash sideways time are both true and the box has not been opened yet.

  15. Rus from Texas (Lonestare) says:

    Jacob and MIB are not twins. Move on…

  16. Rickey says:

    Sorry broken image above. Added a screen cap from last night of Mysterious Boy from farther away, and compared to the Substitute shot of him far away, he looks a LOT older.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/sleepoverjesus/4520777287/

  17. gene e says:

    Where we stand:

    The critics/doubters have adopted a” line by line” assesment in the shortcomings of each episode, while the devout/faithful still shower their praise on an episodal basis. The scientists/wiki-googlers still try and razzle dazzle the casual reader with allusions to quantum mechanics and Shrodinger’s cat. The Please Don’t Spoil Me/Whiners are supporting one of the biggest spoilers of all time in Ryan’s Forward Cabin exposes. The hypocrisy mounts post by post. Me? Well, I’m going a different direction. My thesis is aptly titled ” The Springsteen Conjecture”. Spanish Johnny? From the song ‘Incident on 57th Street’? INCIDENT! And Hurley’s date Rosalita? ROSALITA! Come on! Anyone? Listen to the Bruce Springsteen bootleg ‘Providence 1975’ then get back to me. Is Bruce Desmond’s father? SPOILER ALERT!!!! TOO LATE!!!! Now, the task is clear: to listen to all the Bruce Springsteen music ever made and looking for more evidence that the creators/writers/ directors/ actors/best boy’s/key grips were all and were ever Bruce fans! SPOILER ALERT!!!! Yes they are. TOO LATE!!!!

  18. Carol from Boston says:

    @rickey – great link – thanks. I always assumed the blood on the blonde boy’s arms/hands was symbolic of smokey having Jacob killed. But what if the two boys are brothers, and the blood on the blonde is Mib’s after Jacob killed MIB or took away his human body. Maybe those were the original two of them before they took the bodies of others. How do we know the MIB from the black rock is his original body? It could be another body he took over.

    With this show we have to think outside the box and take the logical assumption and look at it a different way. I really think they are two different boys, twins that are either MIB and Jacob or strongly connected to them in some way. They could be fraternal twins not identical.

  19. Ben says:

    Willy Wonka: [singsong] There’s no earthly way of knowing / Which direction we are going / There’s no knowing where we’re rowing / Or which way the river’s flowing / Is it raining? / Is it snowing? / Is a hurricane a-blowing? /
    [apprehensive, now spoken]
    Willy Wonka: Not a speck of light is showing / So the danger must be growing / Are the fires of hell a-glowing? / Is the grisly reaper mowing? / Yes! The danger must be growing

    LOVED it! I recognized it instantly because I probably have memorized about half the dialogue in “Willy Wonka.” I think it’s the original audio, just altered in the studio.

    Favorite lines in WW that relates to “Lost:”
    Salt: Wonka, that’s the way we came in.
    Wonka: Sorry, we have to go backwards to move forward.

    Predictions: Desmond will turn the wheel in the well.

  20. Mimi says:

    @gene e

    Lights out tonight, trouble in the heartland.
    Got a head-on collision, smashin in my guts man.
    I’m caught in a crossfire that I don’t understand.
    But there’s one thing I know for sure…
    I don’t give a damn for the same old played out scenes
    I don’t give a damn for just the in-betweens.
    Honey I want the heart, I want the soul, I want control right now.
    You better listen to me baby:
    Talk about a dream; try to make it real.
    You wake up in the night with a fear so real.
    You spend your life waiting for a moment that just don’t come.
    Well don’t waste your time waiting

  21. Carol from Boston says:

    Okay so what is up guys? I come here for fun and discussion and lately I feel we are being “judged” on our posts. We all have different stances and theories and should respect that. For anyone that feels annoyed or bored why do you still come?

    Do I have to watch everything I say now in fear of boring someone or offending someone else?

    Why ruin the fun for those of us that really enjoy being here?

    Here is the deal for me straight out, I’ll get a little personal. This board is my escape, last Jan my mom had several strokes and I spend a lot of my personal time visiting her and making arrangements for when she comes home. Lost is something I do for myself for fun, this board is part of that and I don’t want to lose that. I find myself in the past several weeks having to defend the very reason the board exists.

  22. Bob from Oxford says:

    @Carol – don’t worry about what anyone says on here. Just roll your eyes and move on to the next post! The question should be what are we going to do when Lost is over!?

  23. Gregoire from NYC says:

    Hello Losties!
    Ka-blam! The Ilana explosion was one of the most laughably bad events to ever take place on Lost. The editing and effects were just plain OFF to the extent that I had to rewind once to figure out what had just happened. Also, that amount of dynamite would have caused a larger explosion, and our Losties would have been coated in Ilana parts (I know this is prime time, but give us just a LITTLE gore!)

    Lost has always done sudden deaths very poorly in my opinion, and the reveal of Libby in the alt timeline reminded me of how poorly that one was done as well. The only ones that don’t feel cheap are the one done for comedic value — Arzt and of course Frogurt.

    I have this bad feeling that Miles, Lapidus or even Ben will fall victim to one of these quick-flash, silly death sequences. If one of these men randomly falls off a cliff in the next few episodes, I will turn off my TV and weep.

  24. Ryan says:

    Carol, I don’t feel that at all. I guess I just don’t pay any attention to the grumblers and doubters. We’re enjoying the analysis and consideration of every aspect of the show, knowing full well we may be right on or way off. Some of us may be more convinced of our conclusions than others, but hopefully not at the direct expense or rude dismissal of other views. And if someone thinks the conversation itself is a waste of time… it says a lot that they’re taking the time to chime in to say so. Don’t get defensive, or bring more attention to the cranks. Just skip it, and move on to the next fun thought.

  25. steve says:

    I agree with the posters above about finally getting to see Jack meet Locke as smoke monster face to face. I wish there was some dialog, but the non-dialog was pretty effective. It’s been a whole season since Jack actually talked to Locke, no? Can’t wait we hear the words exchanged.

    Locke: “Hello, Jack.”

    Jack: “What the hell are you?”

    Locke: “I’m the one you never believed.”

    Jack: “Well, I believe now.”

    Locke: “We’ll see about that.”

    It’s going to be awesome.

    Would have loved to hear Hurley scream: “Fire in the hole!” as he was running from the Black Rock.

  26. airwin from Phila says:

    I am curious about the apparent age difference of the young boy in the jungle we saw last night and first saw in “The Substitute.” Last night he appeared a bit older, with darker hair and a more knowing grin.

    What if the writers are using this technique to address the age inconsistencies and bring “older Walt” back on the show? It’s not very likely at this point, but I sure would love to see Walt again and get some answers to his mysteries.

  27. aaron r says:

    please, a question. it seemed to me that there were two monsters on the island in the first season. i never felt that it was the smoke monster was crashing around in the jungle, knocking down trees and roaring like some huge animal. it wasn’t polar bears, of course – they were too small to do the kind of damage they showed. anybody?
    do we all remember Zuleikha Robinson from Rome season 2?
    the more i think about it, the better last night was.

  28. Beth from Houston says:

    The sideways realities are realized by each character when they 1)Find their “love/constant” 2) come into contact with electromagnetic activity (the MRI machine) 3) are submerged under water (Damon and Carlton said the key word for the end of the show is “water” – thus the island being under water) 4) have a “near-death experience” (like Charlie)

    Libby is Hurley’s “love/constant.” When he kisses her he gets the memories of his island self.

    Which makes me wonder- is there an hope left for Sayid??

  29. Fernando says:

    I finally found something to write about that noone else has mentioned yet about last night’s episode: when we see the mysteryous boy in the jungle, he’s holding a stick VERY similar to the one ZombieLocke is carving. This is the first time we see the boy with a stick, so my guess is that it must be significant. Or not.

  30. Carol from Boston says:

    @Ryan – okay, maybe I am just overly grumpy today and being too sensitive. Sorry.

  31. Fernando says:

    @ Carol from Boston; I agree with Rob from Oxfornd, “Just roll your eyes and move on to the next post!” I’m sure we all do it.

  32. Carol from Boston says:

    @beth – I am sad to say I don’t hold out too much hope for Sayid unless he is trying to fool Locke. He seems pretty dark right now.

    Wonder why Jacob isn’t making an appearance when he is needed right now to fight MIB.

  33. greenberry says:

    I LOVE LOST, love Season Six, and I love this board!! Great write-up this week, Ryan (as always) — love how you summarize the prominent sections of each show, highlight the interesting parts, and tie up the loose ends

    Loved Hurley’s line to Libby re: “a Bizarro alternate universe” — Not sure what to make of Hurley “doing his own thing” in the I-verse and getting others to follow, but I like that he doesn’t want more things and people to ‘blow up’ — he does always come across as trust-worthy

    It was nice to see Kate smile again! I am eager for her (and Sawyer) to have more meaningful dialogue and purpose

    Love seeing the timelines bleed into one another, and the pieces of the LOST puzzle fall into place

    @ Carol ~~ You’re a fabulous addition to this board ~ You GO Girl!

  34. LReene says:

    I’ve been sitting here staring at the screen-cap of the two boys. Personally, I don’t think they are the same boy….. or even played by the same actor. Just too many facial attributes that are not the same. When not viewed together, they look very much alike, but side-by-side….. I don’t think so.

    So, maybe one is young Jacob and the other is young MIB? Brothers?

  35. Maluhia says:

    Initially, I thought the boy in the jungle was the same boy we saw earlier with the blood on his hands. And I swear he looks like a young Jacob. Could casting really have been that lucky to find a young actor with similar features to play the part? Or is this just coincidence. The way he smiled at MIB really reminded me of the interplay we’ve already seen between Jacob and MIB.

    I, too, was a little bummed at the lack of grace in explaining the whispers. But I’m over it. Darlton have said that they will answer questions that are important to the characters’ storylines. I don’t know how important this answer was to the Hurley storyline since Michael had already come and gone earlier in the epi. Some folks have suggested the whispers are a kind of warning. If that’s the case, what were the whispers warning Hurley, Jack and crew about in the jungle when Hurley called out Michael? I don’t remember anything bad happening after that…

    Desmond took MIB’s hand! What will that mean?

    RE: Ilana It did feel like she fell quite short of her mission, and her efforts on the island/as a character were sort of a waste. Is that the point? Or will we hopefully see her again?

    Great discussion, everyone, and awesome podcast Ryan & Jen! Sorry I don’t have anything more insightful to share, but I’m definitely grateful for having such a fun forum to participate in.

  36. popokigirl says:

    Re Alpert’s exposing Hurley’s lie: “Jacob never tells us what to do.”

    HUH????

    What about Jacob telling Hurley to bring Jack to the lighthouse? And even giving him the words to say to Jack to ensure Jack would go? How about the specific instructions that they were to go alone? All that seems like a lot of detail, telling Hurley what to do.

    Or how about telling Hurley to take Sayid to the Temple? And Dogen’s believing him when he says, “Jacob sent me”, as if Dogen is quite familiar with people being told what to do (and where to go) by Jacob?

    Doesn’t jibe. That’s the first thing I thought when I heard that line.

  37. KK says:

    What’s that game Lenny is playing in the institution? What if the game’s red and black pieces are what Hurley finds in the pouch!! 😉

    On a serious note, my head is still spinning from this episode. I thought it was great — more love story, more surprises… Yes, the whispers explanation was awkward, but just like that kiss between Jack and Juliette way back when, which was discussed and nitpicked at excruciatingly painful length… well, we all found out later that it was awkward for a reason. Right?

    In a post way up there, someone mentioned that the on-island action seems to be more about our losties moving from temple to beach to temple to beach and back again, like the show is stalling to get the off-island action up to speed. I agree. There seems to be a lot of shuffling about. But it looks like most of the pieces are in place now.

    I love this board. It’s great.
    @Rus in TX — your one-liners are a total crackup to me.
    @gene e — @Jason B in Raleigh made the same Bruce observation. D/C and their research team are genius. So many cultural references on this show, it boggles the mind.

  38. Rus from Texas (Lonestare) says:

    Is it Tuesday yet?

  39. KK says:

    btw – above, I meant Lenny in the season 2 episodes in the institution. Didn’t see if he was in the institution in this episode. But I did notice in the scene w/ Hurley & Libby in this episode in the institution, there were all those foamy puzzle pieces on the wall… there were 2 above Hurley’s head: one “X” and and “U” — X-Universe??

  40. Carol from Boston says:

    @KK – I was waiting for his friend to come by and say the numbers in front of Hurley, I thought that would jog his memory.

    @Rus – like KK you crack me up.

    Love the Springsteen references, you guys pick up everything. I thought the same thing about Rosalita but missed the other ones.

    @popokiki – you are absolutely right about Jacob telling Hurley what to do. Hurley should have shown his arm as proof. (well hopefully he has washed by now, nice to see Ben and some of the others in clean clothes)

    @greenberry – thanks. 🙂 I feel the same about your posts.

  41. greenberry says:

    Thanx for all the LOLs! ~ The red/black pieced game in the yellow apparatus is CONNECT 4 ~ is 4 one of our numbers?

  42. KK says:

    @greenberry — 4 is one of the numbers! I think we’re on to something…

  43. Carol from Boston says:

    @greenberry and kk – 4 is Locke’s number.

    Can I just say I would not want to meet Terry O’Quinn when he is mad. He is scary!! I wonder if the emmy’s should have a catagory just for Lost actors because the acting has been excellent this year.

    @Rus- just wondering are you hanging out with Crazy sideways Charlie or Island Charlie?

    @anyone- do you think that the whispers are people who did bad things on the island, or all people that died island related deaths?

  44. Todd says:

    HFC…..my favorite episode of this season. Wonderful, long awaited, story between Hurley and Libby. Almost brought a ‘legitimate’ tear to my eye.

  45. Constance from Seattle says:

    I’m pretty late to the game here, I hate when work gets in the way of my Lost time! Overall, I think this was an episode witha lot of forward movement and some great character moments. So much happened that it felt rather clumsy and rushed, but I think we can forgive them a bit. Let’s see how it all plays out.

    Thoughts:
    -Cynthia Watros was excellent.

    -Whispers- I think what Michael said is a part-truth. It’s maybe the explanation he came up with, but as usual, nobody knows the whole story. We know that the whispers warn people. @Coolpeace, I was also weary of trusting Michael (natch), but it seems that they all would have blown up if they had gone along with Ilana.

    -Hurley- Maybe Hurley can only talk to people that died on the island. Locke died off island, so he can’t talk to him. Maybe using the numbers unlocked the group consciousness thing (technical term) so he can see them. Then Dave would have had to be on the island at some point. Huh.

    -I hope they still explain Christian. Hello.

    -And where the eff has Jacob been? Is he still lurking around the lighthouse?

    -And I also think Walt is special. So special, he never had to come back to the island. He lucked out!

    -Boy- This kid is the same kid, just older. They are showing the regeneration of Jacob, like a phoenix. Like a ‘circle’ of life. Maybe. But obv. Jacob and MIB aren’t identical as adults, so they are not as kids. If the kid was MIB, why is Unlocke afraid? If kid is Des, why didn’t Des recognize? Maybe MIB has a timeline (who doesn’t?) that he has to succeed in getting off island before Jacob is an adult?

    -Desmond- I think we can all agree that he’s seen both timelines and seems to have knowledge simultaneously. He may have seen the ultimate end and he knows that everything will turn out okay, at least for Penny. He hit John to give him a near death experience and to stop Unlocke and he knows that he’ll go to the hospital and see everyone. Jack’s there, Charlie and Claire, too. Sun and Jin are on the way. I think Sawyer, Miles, and Kate have to go to the hospital bc they were in a car crash. Police protocol. And then we’ll see Juliette??? But what about Hurley and Sayid? Maybe THEY are staying on island as replacements? Just thought of that.

    That’s all for now. As usual, you guys give me a lot to think about and this forum makes watching the best show that has ever been even more awesome.

  46. Constance from Seattle says:

    Sorry, one more thing.

    Unlcke looked so satisfied and scary at the end, it’s no wonder Jack looked at him like he did. Not only does it appear Locke has arisen, he looks evil in the shadows. They have been on opposite sides the whole time, and this is no exception.

    Peace!

  47. J in NH says:

    Hi all, just a couple of thoughts..

    I think the boy in the jungle had the same staff as UnLocke was making at camp.

    I think the boys we keep seeing are younger versions of Jacob and MIB.

    And finally, I think Des is going to swim down INTO the well, and discover a cavern that is the donkey wheel room. He was WAY to accepting of everything weird that went on, from going with Sayid, to taking a one on one walk with UnLocke; even the relaxed chat by the side of the well…I think he knows what to expect, he’s seen it ALL!

  48. Bonita in Atlanta says:

    @ Constance – Hurley spoke to Isabella

  49. Hanged says:

    Excellent episode. A time-paradox in itself: I don’t get how were they able to pack so much into it and still keep it consistant and moderately paced. Just count with me:

    – Illana explodes
    – The Black Rock explodes
    – Libby’s character gets a satisfying purpose and closure
    – The romance between Libby and Hurley plays out
    – Whispers explained
    – The boy reappears
    – Locke confronts Desmond
    – Desmond gets thrown into a well
    – Widmore’s motives and Island mythology hinted at
    – Desmond’s sideways mission continues
    – Desmond drives real Locke over
    – all that interlated with lots of interesting pieces of dialogue from almost all the important characters.

    Judging by this list, I would expect a rushed, shallow mess, where the characters act unbelievably and the viewer can’t really feel the supposedly big twists. The Variable would be a good example of that. But here, everything fits perfectly together, the pacing is flawless and almost every scene has depth and strong atmosphere. Until now, we had “character episodes”, “plot advancing episodes”, “mythology episodes”. Everybody Loves Hugo managed to efortlessly juggle all those aspects of the show.

    With one exception. The Whispers. I don’t the answer itself – ok, so they are ghosts who couldn’t let go. But how do they fit into the bigger picture? Couldn’t they give them some more significance? Why were they heard at specific moments. What do the whispers actually mean – what are they trying to say? Or at least give them a longer, stronger scene. Imagine Hugo suddenly seeing an army of eerie figures in the background, Boone, Ana Lucia and others included… wouldn’t that be much worthier of one of the oldest and most discussed mysteries of Lost?

    Unless there really is more significance to it. It’s been hinted previously that the Man In Black has some power over the dead. What if the “bad ghosts” – the ones wo have done something bad, like Michael – are now under his control? It seems really convenient that Hugo brings all the remaining candidates to MIB just when he needs them. What made him so confident that they will come? Perhaps it was him who sent Michael? Probably not, but I think it would make sense.

    Anyway, great episode. Looking forward to the podcast.

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