http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22EhKh7qcQo

enjoy.

@ greenberry : “hi” back at ya!! “A Mari Usque Ad Mare” (from sea to sea).

@ to all who feel they over post … don’t.

http://blog.brianromero.com/?p=228

I listened carefully to the “you all” calls waitng for your ‘Boston’ voice, but alas it was your post that was referred to! — I too would be crazy nervous to speak aloud. Plus I am more reflective than predictive when it comes to LOST. Thanx for all the heart you put into this blog.

@Coolpeace “hi” to you over on the other side of Canada — love your thoughtful posts — can’t wait to make it to your side of the country eventually!

Also, liking the idea that Jacob created or formed MIB al la God creating the devil. The devil was originally a normal human created by god that went wrong, right? It’s been a while since I was in religion class so no yelling at me if I am wrong lmao……

Also, just need to know if anyone else while listening to the podcast finds themselves talking out loud to ryan and jen or the callers either disagreeing or agreeing or um, yellling?! or is that just me?!

Doc, I had a little water welling up in my eyes as I was reading your post… sniffff. You are right – it will be hard if we have to go cold turkey. Because you realize it is not so much the show itself as much as the community around the show; the boards, the forums, the recaps, the podcasts, that make us addicted. It is the whole experience around the show. And I think Ryan and Jen, will need us too.

I will predict, that this fanbase will endure, as it has for other shows – I don’t know to what extend, will there be conventions, small local gatherings etc. but I do not think it will die on May 23rd. Take heart. We can’t all just vanish overnight

My name is Paule and I am a Lost addict from Montreal, Canada. Paule pronounced “pole” and I am woman

@Greenberry – I didn’t realize how beautiful Canada was until the Olympics, or how big it was.

One thing to consider is Richard’s episode didn’t have a flash sideways like every other episode so far this season. Does this maybe mean that Richard doesn’t exist in the flash sideways of 2004? Is it possible that he when down with the island? We know that the island is on underwater in 2004, but it couldn’t have been too long before that since Ben and his father were on the island before. Maybe in the flash sideways 1977 was the time the island went under because of some electromagnetic occurance as a result of the drilling that maybe detonated Jughead. This theory can show that the LOSTIES never went time traveling and never ended up there in 1977. Ben and his father could have easily left the island before this could have happened.

Also, note how Jacob keeps bringing people to the island, yet when the Black Rock gets there the man in black lays waste to all but one. How often has this happened?

A few things to note if you’re going to read the Book of Job. Taken from a historical POV, not a religious one. Religious POVs are available from many if you wish them.

—The big thing is that, as often happens in the Bible, the Book of Job contains two versions of the Job story. In the Book of Genesis, two creation stories (at least stories of human creation) were told one after another. In the Book of Job, Story #1, the older, shorter story is split in two and comprises the beginning and the end with the entirety of Story #2 being put in the middle. Story #1 is prose. Story #2 is actually poetry.

—One key difference between the stories is that Job is portrayed differently in each version. In. . . (I don’t have to give a spoiler warning for the Bible, do I?) In Story #1, Job never gets angry at God. In Story #2, after a long conversation with the most annoying set of friends in the Bible, Job not only gets angry at God but demands God appear before to explain what is going on. God immediately shows up. [And Thud. . . Well, not really.]

—Satan (or hasatan, “the Adversary.”) appears in this story. This is one of the first appearances of Satan in scripture. The portrayal is different form Satan as portrayed in later, especially Christian, belief.

—The big point to Job is to explain why suffering exists. The predominant view of most Bible stories before this point was that for the people of Israel, bad things were held to be the result of breaking the Covenant, the agreement their ancestors made with God. Bad things happened to those who broke it; good things happened to those who kept it. And if the people as a whole were not living up to their obligations, the nation itself would suffer. But in the time Job’s story entered Jewish thought, the people suffering most were, to all appearances, those who had not turned against God and the Covenant. A new explanation was needed. Job’s explanation is merely one. Different texts endorsed different explanations.

Hope this helps.

Yet I know we are from around the globe!

Cheryl from Delta, B.C. Canada (previously from L.A., Santa Cruz, Miami, and Israel)

I make a request/plea. I do NOT think we will be sitting around with a satiated AAAH! late on May23rd. I read the posts above and I know I am in good company. Whatever it is in us that gets hi-jacked by a good story, unable to put the book down, or stop obsessing between weekly episodes, has been grabbed by this series, and grabbed good. And we hunger for resolution, for completion. But I don’t think it will come in the form many/most hope.

I do have a request/plea and I’m getting to it. I too have a theory, but it is more mechanistic, having to do with the story itself. I don’t think Lost will end up disappointing us, and to avoid that the answers will not come as pablum. ANY set of answers will disappoint on some level, because we have all become addicted to the mystery, and like junkies, we gather weekly for our next dose. It’s what we like, like it or not. Admit it or not. And I think they will satisfy us, in the most initially frustrating way. I predict, and hope, that the last ‘thud’ will have us all open mouthed, mentally screaming WTF? and HFC!!! Yup, another mystery, a huge one. BUT it will be one solvable by application of all that has been given us. Maybe careful and tedious application, and undoubtedly open to interpretation, and disagreement. And, solving that will lead to the threads of resolution for the other major mysteries. And many minor mysteries will remain, as they should, as Darleton have admitted. That’s what I hope, and predict.

Hence, my plea. Ryan and Jen, I think we will need you, and this, more AFTER the finale than ever. Please be open to this possibility, and don’t schedule your summer vacation for the day after. Be there for us addicts. Help us realize that the only remaining cure, the ultimate ‘fix’ will be you and us, threading it out together.

I would never have enjoyed this, this Lost, without y’all everybody, to the incredible extent that I have. Would have missed a lot, which I was doing before I discovered Hawaiiup. So with my plea, and I do plea, also my thanks and appreciation for a job well done, and needed.

I NEVER would have thought TV would hold something like this. Never!

Search iTunes : The Lost podcast with Jay and Jack.

RE: your Adman and Eve theory … if I remember correctly when Jack and Kate found the skeletons in season one, Jack mentions that they are approx. 40 years old. Too young for MIB and Jacobs parents.

I am sure they will tell us, I also think we will get flashbacks or at least some origin story for MIB and Jacob at some point. I am sure that will shed some light on their conflict.

I listened to the clip of MIB talking to Richard, where someone questioned if Locke’s voice came out…I did NOT hear that at all. To me, the two actors’ voices do not sound at all alike. It sounded like MIB’s normal voice to me.

I still don’t get the rules of the conflict between Jacob/MIB, or how that relates to Ben/Widmore. If Widmore was the leader of the Others, didn’t he report to Jacob via Richard? So did Widmore turn against Jacob when he was exiled, or did he just turn against Ben? I don’t think Widmore’s current motivations are clear. Sawyer assumed that Widmore wants destroy MIB, but I didn’t hear Widmore confirm it. (Did I miss it?)

Also, I really hope we find out more about the Others, and their motivations and rules. If Jacob is supposed to be good, his “followers” don’t seem any better than MIB. I hope we’ll see exactly what MIB did to make Jacob call him “evil incarnate”. Clearly MIB is deadly as Smokey, but the Others have certainly done their share of killing.

I am also coming to grips with accepting all the Jacob and MIB stuff, if this is the direction the show has gone it I might as well give into it, rather than fighting it and not enjoying the last episodes.

On a fun note, instead of the island being corked, maybe the battle acts more like a drain and sucks the whole island in one piece to the bottom of the island. One never knows with this show.

@Chris thanks for the spoiler alert. Glad you are joining us on the board, it’s lots of fun.

@yann- Desmond is listed in the opening credits of every episode, so he must be coming back soon.

@everybody – Adam and Eve – my theory, MIB and Jacob are brothers and the adam and eve skeletons are their parents. How old are the skeletons?

SPOILERS FOR BOTH NOVELS

At the end of each novel, the main characters seem to be on their way – with no knowledge – to repeating their experiences again. In The Third Policeman, it’s a form of punishment, and I don’t think this is what Lost is going for (completely). However, at the end of The Dark Tower, it’s stated in the text – though not explicitly – that things are different this go-around. In the adventure we follow as readers, the lead character Roland often laments not having the horn of Gilead. When he starts the quest again, this time he does have the horn, suggesting that it will end for good this time.

I think this is similar to what will happen simply because I think it’s what happened at the start of the series, when Jack woke up in the jungle instead of on the beach.

Thanks for your podcasts and keep up the good work!

You all had suggested some reasons Jacob might not have wanted to die when fighting Richard and didn’t fight when Ben killed him. It could in fact be that he didn’t want to die at first, but needed or wanted to later or that it happened so many times he wasn’t surprised but I think it’s just like Miles said- he thought/hoped he was wrong about Ben, but wasn’t.

Reminds me of movies and such that explore the possibilities and consequences of what would happen if Jesus never died – his death and resurrection being what gives us forgiveness of sin- not automatically, but we have to obey/follow him. Maybe that’s reading too much into the Christian thing… Forgive me, I’m a fan religious themes

The only one I came up with was Desmond’s picture of him and Penny, but nobody was dead and it may have been just a motivator to “fix” things (jumping around in time?) so that he and Penny could be together… I seem to remember that picture showing up at odd points, but that may have been to lead up to her being his constant…

He who must not be named stuffs Richard into that canvass cocoon to get him out of the way of the temple purge and to soften him up for an eventual change of heart. MIB is angry with “the chosen” because they have served Jacob, slavishly according to him. Yet MIB needs them to live to achieve his escape–unless you believe he’s leading them to a promised land out of the goodness of his heart.

I propose that the New World refered to by Whitfield was in fact Australia. This would explain how the Black Rock got to the island as we know it is in the general area of Auatralia.

Furthermore there was a gold rush in the 1850′s …. could Hansos fortune be from gold and he was sending men to the gold mines ?

L O S T fans are much smarter than that and it would be a slap in the face if the writers dumbed the storyline down to this in an overly simplistic fashion.

Just the fact that we are speculating about these things now says the story needs to be more substantive. Seriously guys, does it really matter whether Jacob and MIB are good or bad in light of the incredible journey we’ve taken the past 5+ years? Sounds more like we’re discussing fantasy football. I blame the writers.

Nine episodes so far, and it feels like we’re just starting getting somewhere. I think that Ab Aeterno was received so highly because it stands against episodes that have been weak (except for “Dr. Linus”) and parts of Ep. 1/2. Sure, it’s an okay episode, but to me, this is something they could have given us during Season 5.

this cut off

Meanwhile MIB is looking for a loophole (one of the people who Jacob brings who turns against Jacob) to kill Jacob because if he succeeds then he can go off the island. Jacob is keeping MIB on the island only because he believes that if he goes off that he, doubting humanity, will kill everyone.

Jacob was looking for candidates to replace him in keeping MIB on the island.

MIB is recruiting so that he can kill all the remaining candidates, who Ilana is protecting.

Jacob would have let MIB go but only if he had proven him wrong. only if MIB believes in humanity.

Maybe MIB was a man once and Jacob turned him into a Smoke monster to keep him on the island… as a man, he could escape (like the O6) but as a monster he can’t.

this is only a start of this theory

For a while we thought that Richard was going to be Egyptian, then we shifted to him coming on the Black Rock… then some said ” Well we already knew that” when this episode aired… No. You THOUGHT that, but you didn’t know.

the Egyptian theme goes back further that Richard as we find out. Does it go back further that the MIB and Jacob or are they the connection?

I think that there is more than one smoke monster.

3 smokies from a pyramid.

The podcast reveals a little bit of their methods – the writing camps and the organic progression, writing in Starbucks of all places – very interesting.

sorry to burst your bubble, MIB says “YOU brought them here”, not “we”.

That is my guess.

re: richard – help me with this fellow addicted losties. After Richard doesn’t kill Jacob and he goes back to MIB, MIB says he understands and offers to take him back at any time. He seems to accept it. So why does he react so violently and beat up Richard, and put him up in a bag and says “I am so disappointed in all of you” after Jacob dies and Richard realizes Locke is MIB. Why the sudden violence against Richard? What did Richard suddenly do that was so wrong?

Thanks for including my Black Rock Ledger theory as part of your show. I thought I would post it here for other listeners to ponder if that is ok. Loved the show this week! Thanks!

Jeff

Jeff’s Black Rock Ledger theory, why MIB had time to get a haircut and how the seas that the ship arrived on went from blue to stormy:

I do have one big question from this episode that might be one of those oh well continuity errors on the part of the producers as we wrap things up or a “holy freaking crap” they are smart moment. It seems as though Richard was the only survivor of the Black Rock in 1867 from the looks of what Smokey did to the passengers. So it is unlikely as most people expected that the ships ledger got off the island somehow as seen in season four’s “The Constant” . If we go with what we know so far, the ledger could potentially just have been taken in a previous pirate raid after the 1845 departure of the ship from Portsmouth England on the way to the Kingdom of Siam.

I am inclined to think that the ledger was on the island and that someone on the Black Rock other than Richard did survive.

Since we see the Black Rock off the coast at the end of Season five in clear waters, it is safe to assume that a scouting party in a smaller vessel was sent to the island first. The ledger would have gone with the first mate of the ship to record any findings on the island. The ship could have been sailing around the island for weeks or months unable to escape like the circumstances Desmond encountered sailing the Elizabeth. This also explains the reason why Man in Black had time to get a haircut before encountering Richard.

While this is all happening, on the Island the first mate and others are experiencing the wonders and horrors of the island. They somehow find themselves guided to the Orchid/Old Well and the first mate turns the Donkey Wheel leaving the island with the ledger. The impending time flash sends the first mate back to 1852, fifteen years after 1867, fifteen being the key number between 1867 and 1852.

After the donkey wheel is turned in 1867 the seas around the island spin and churn in a massive whirlpool and storm that lifts the Black Rock as we see in this week’s episode high in the air crashing into the statue and plopping the ship down in the middle of the jungle when the Island resets at its new location in time and with perfectly tropical weather.

So either there is a reason for the ledger to show up in 1852 or the producers just don’t care about this piece of the story. Oh how awesome it would be if half of what I speculated above were true. Certainly explains why Widmore paid so much to get that ledger!

I understand your frustrations after all we were really only introduced to Jacob, and certainly MIB in the last season. Although, for me (and maybe it is the same with you Carol) it is not so much Jacob that bugs me but rather his relationship with MIB … because we don’t yet understand its significance. Right? There is yet no context to it.

Our frustration (the audience) is similar to Ben’s when confronting Jacob in last year’s finale. we ARE Ben seeing Jacob for the first time after all those years for following our Losties and the Others through thick and thin… and only hearing about Jacob. Now Jacob is here with this other person (MIB) and we don’t know what to make of it.

Read the passage substituting Ben with the audience and Jacob as both himself and Darlton….

BEN: Oh… so now, after all this time, you’ve decided to stop ignoring me. Thirty-five years I lived on this island, and all I ever heard was your name over and over. Richard would bring me your instructions–all those slips of paper, all those lists–and I never questioned anything. I did as I was told. But when I dared to ask to see you myself, I was told, “You have to wait. You have to be patient.” But when he asked to see you? He gets marched straight up here as if was Moses. So… why him? Hmm? What was it that was so wrong with me? What about me?!

JACOB: What about you?

Yup, I can understand the frustrations – however, I think Carol, that those frustrations are fuel with the knowledge that there exist a final date to the show. This would be different it we were not aware of the deadline and if we did not have a week to wait between episodes. Don’t you agree?

But I keep in mind that Damon and Carlton know what they are doing and we have put our faith in their ability to tell their story. This is not our story but it is theirs. And they have given us a great ride so far.

I wrote a last comment on the Ab Aeterno blog just prior to this one and I am reiterating the last item here, since I fear not many will see it but it is worth listen to:

Carol, it might help make you feel better.

TO ALL who would be interested in hearing Damon and Carlton speak and answer interesting questions on the process of writing the show and other insights about the show – the dynamic duo did a one hour Q and A at the Apple Store in Santa Monica last week. So very recent stuff. There is a recording of that session on iTunes. There are NO SPOILERS, for those that are worried. I’m in the spoiler free camp.

You can find it by searching “Meet the Filmmaker” in podcast section. The title is Lost Creators, dated march 24th, lenght 59 minutes 10 seconds.

Very entertaining and informative – I encourage all to listen.

I think that Jacob may also have literally taken MIB’s body, so that the Jacob we see is the true image of MIB ( MIB says that he took his body to Richard), perhaps by trickery? We havent seen him eat or drink so far, I don’t think that he can, and that Jacob’s offer of food/drink are therefore unkind.

I am totally prepared to be wrong about this, and we haven’t seen why MIB has lost his true form, humanity and is a prisoner, so it may be that his true form was evil incarnate, but it seems strange that Jacob would continue to bring people to the Island to prove a point, when MIB cannot kill him, so some of the people that he brings could, seems too big a risk to take to prove a point about humans. I wonder if Jacob was the original smoke and tricked MIB to escape!

Thank you for addressing my concern re: the direction the show has taken. I just wanted to clarify what I meant. I strongly agree with you that this show has always had religious overtones, redemption, faith vs. Science, EKO and Charlie and Desmond were also deeply religious. As a Catholic myself I can certainly understand Eko’s and Charlie’s faith. Charlie’s crossing himself while drowning has got to be one of the most poignant moments of the show.

Here is where my confusion lies – when Jacob was introduced via Ben and also the brain washing film, I felt like the others were some kind of cult and Jacob was their leader. I wasn’t even sure he was a living being. We had been conditioned to think of the others as the enemy, even with their vows of being the “good guys”. How could we think of them being good when they kill so easily? I was aware of Jacob but I never thought of him as the reason all this was happening. The reason for being there, even when we heard about his mysterious lists.

The problem I have now is accepting that this is all about Jacob and the MIB, whose identity we aren’t even really sure about. We can theorize all we want but we still dont’ know who they really are.

I also have a few questions about who has been feeding the others instructions. IF Richard has always known where Jacob was, why did he let Ben follow instructions from the cabin? Has Ben been making it up all along or has he been following real instructions? IT could go either way.

I do think you gave me great advice and I am going to take it. I am going to try to open my mind up and try to curb my frustration and let the story play out. I know that my irritation lies with the fact that I am not a fan of Jacob. I like seeing MIB and Jacob play off each other and they are certainly great characters. I just don’t like Jacob taking away everyone’s free will and manipulating them.

1. MIB gives the knife to Ricardo to use on Jacob. Doesn’t work. Jacob then has it.
2. I guess the same knife is with Jacob all this time and then Ben uses it to kill Jacob?
3. Then there is the one inside the flower pot that Sayeed tried to use on MIB.

I guess Sayeed still has it.

That is some knife…