Trans 2010-03-28: “Ab Aeterno” (Episode 6-09)


This edition of “The Transmission” covers “Ab Aeterno,” the ninth episode of Season 6. We share our thoughts, then we turn it over to “You All Everybody,” our brilliant listeners. After a new track from The Others LOST Band, we report on the last week of production in the “Forward Cabin.”

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  • 0:00:00 Introduction
  • 0:01:05 Recap: “LOST” in Eight Minutes
  • 0:07:45 Reaction & Analysis
  • 0:40:07 Feedback: You All Everybody
  • 1:24:44 “Little House” by The Others LOST Band”
  • 1:28:54 Spoilers: The Forward Cabin
  • 1:37:51 Closing

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56 Responses to Trans 2010-03-28: “Ab Aeterno” (Episode 6-09)

  1. Debbie in VA says:

    As I was listening to your podcast, it struck me that Jacob and MIB may be the same person but fractured apart. I keep remembering MIB said “We brought them here” regarding the ship in the distance. then the MIb says he lost his body because of his crazy mom. also, Ben let Jacob speak before he stabbed him….how did Jacob die ?

  2. Graceland for Texas says:

    How many sacred knives are there? I thought there might be one but…

    1. MIB gives the knife to Ricardo to use on Jacob. Doesn’t work. Jacob then has it.
    2. I guess the same knife is with Jacob all this time and then Ben uses it to kill Jacob?
    3. Then there is the one inside the flower pot that Sayeed tried to use on MIB.

    I guess Sayeed still has it.

    That is some knife…

  3. Carol from Boston says:

    Ryan and Jen, Great podcast as usual. 🙂

    Thank you for addressing my concern re: the direction the show has taken. I just wanted to clarify what I meant. I strongly agree with you that this show has always had religious overtones, redemption, faith vs. Science, EKO and Charlie and Desmond were also deeply religious. As a Catholic myself I can certainly understand Eko’s and Charlie’s faith. Charlie’s crossing himself while drowning has got to be one of the most poignant moments of the show.

    Here is where my confusion lies – when Jacob was introduced via Ben and also the brain washing film, I felt like the others were some kind of cult and Jacob was their leader. I wasn’t even sure he was a living being. We had been conditioned to think of the others as the enemy, even with their vows of being the “good guys”. How could we think of them being good when they kill so easily? I was aware of Jacob but I never thought of him as the reason all this was happening. The reason for being there, even when we heard about his mysterious lists.

    The problem I have now is accepting that this is all about Jacob and the MIB, whose identity we aren’t even really sure about. We can theorize all we want but we still dont’ know who they really are.

    I also have a few questions about who has been feeding the others instructions. IF Richard has always known where Jacob was, why did he let Ben follow instructions from the cabin? Has Ben been making it up all along or has he been following real instructions? IT could go either way.

    I do think you gave me great advice and I am going to take it. I am going to try to open my mind up and try to curb my frustration and let the story play out. I know that my irritation lies with the fact that I am not a fan of Jacob. I like seeing MIB and Jacob play off each other and they are certainly great characters. I just don’t like Jacob taking away everyone’s free will and manipulating them.

  4. Liz-Ann from UK says:

    Just listened to the podcast, thank you again for taking the time to do it.
    Like Carol I am having a difficult time pinning Jacob in the good camp, I really felt that some of his expressions in Ab Aeterno were malevolent when he was talking to Richard.

    I think that Jacob may also have literally taken MIB’s body, so that the Jacob we see is the true image of MIB ( MIB says that he took his body to Richard), perhaps by trickery? We havent seen him eat or drink so far, I don’t think that he can, and that Jacob’s offer of food/drink are therefore unkind.

    I am totally prepared to be wrong about this, and we haven’t seen why MIB has lost his true form, humanity and is a prisoner, so it may be that his true form was evil incarnate, but it seems strange that Jacob would continue to bring people to the Island to prove a point, when MIB cannot kill him, so some of the people that he brings could, seems too big a risk to take to prove a point about humans. I wonder if Jacob was the original smoke and tricked MIB to escape!

  5. Coolpeace says:

    Hi all – I have not yet heard the podcast, but felt compelled to respond to @ Carol :

    I understand your frustrations after all we were really only introduced to Jacob, and certainly MIB in the last season. Although, for me (and maybe it is the same with you Carol) it is not so much Jacob that bugs me but rather his relationship with MIB … because we don’t yet understand its significance. Right? There is yet no context to it.

    Our frustration (the audience) is similar to Ben’s when confronting Jacob in last year’s finale. we ARE Ben seeing Jacob for the first time after all those years for following our Losties and the Others through thick and thin… and only hearing about Jacob. Now Jacob is here with this other person (MIB) and we don’t know what to make of it.

    Read the passage substituting Ben with the audience and Jacob as both himself and Darlton….

    BEN: Oh… so now, after all this time, you’ve decided to stop ignoring me. Thirty-five years I lived on this island, and all I ever heard was your name over and over. Richard would bring me your instructions–all those slips of paper, all those lists–and I never questioned anything. I did as I was told. But when I dared to ask to see you myself, I was told, “You have to wait. You have to be patient.” But when he asked to see you? He gets marched straight up here as if was Moses. So… why him? Hmm? What was it that was so wrong with me? What about me?!

    JACOB: What about you?

    Yup, I can understand the frustrations – however, I think Carol, that those frustrations are fuel with the knowledge that there exist a final date to the show. This would be different it we were not aware of the deadline and if we did not have a week to wait between episodes. Don’t you agree?

    But I keep in mind that Damon and Carlton know what they are doing and we have put our faith in their ability to tell their story. This is not our story but it is theirs. And they have given us a great ride so far.

    I wrote a last comment on the Ab Aeterno blog just prior to this one and I am reiterating the last item here, since I fear not many will see it but it is worth listen to:

    Carol, it might help make you feel better.

    TO ALL who would be interested in hearing Damon and Carlton speak and answer interesting questions on the process of writing the show and other insights about the show – the dynamic duo did a one hour Q and A at the Apple Store in Santa Monica last week. So very recent stuff. There is a recording of that session on iTunes. There are NO SPOILERS, for those that are worried. I’m in the spoiler free camp.

    You can find it by searching “Meet the Filmmaker” in podcast section. The title is Lost Creators, dated march 24th, lenght 59 minutes 10 seconds.

    Very entertaining and informative – I encourage all to listen.

  6. Welshie loves LOST says:

    Ryan and Jen,

    Thanks for including my Black Rock Ledger theory as part of your show. I thought I would post it here for other listeners to ponder if that is ok. Loved the show this week! Thanks!


    Jeff’s Black Rock Ledger theory, why MIB had time to get a haircut and how the seas that the ship arrived on went from blue to stormy:

    I do have one big question from this episode that might be one of those oh well continuity errors on the part of the producers as we wrap things up or a “holy freaking crap” they are smart moment. It seems as though Richard was the only survivor of the Black Rock in 1867 from the looks of what Smokey did to the passengers. So it is unlikely as most people expected that the ships ledger got off the island somehow as seen in season four’s “The Constant” . If we go with what we know so far, the ledger could potentially just have been taken in a previous pirate raid after the 1845 departure of the ship from Portsmouth England on the way to the Kingdom of Siam.

    I am inclined to think that the ledger was on the island and that someone on the Black Rock other than Richard did survive.

    Since we see the Black Rock off the coast at the end of Season five in clear waters, it is safe to assume that a scouting party in a smaller vessel was sent to the island first. The ledger would have gone with the first mate of the ship to record any findings on the island. The ship could have been sailing around the island for weeks or months unable to escape like the circumstances Desmond encountered sailing the Elizabeth. This also explains the reason why Man in Black had time to get a haircut before encountering Richard.

    While this is all happening, on the Island the first mate and others are experiencing the wonders and horrors of the island. They somehow find themselves guided to the Orchid/Old Well and the first mate turns the Donkey Wheel leaving the island with the ledger. The impending time flash sends the first mate back to 1852, fifteen years after 1867, fifteen being the key number between 1867 and 1852.

    After the donkey wheel is turned in 1867 the seas around the island spin and churn in a massive whirlpool and storm that lifts the Black Rock as we see in this week’s episode high in the air crashing into the statue and plopping the ship down in the middle of the jungle when the Island resets at its new location in time and with perfectly tropical weather.

    So either there is a reason for the ledger to show up in 1852 or the producers just don’t care about this piece of the story. Oh how awesome it would be if half of what I speculated above were true. Certainly explains why Widmore paid so much to get that ledger!

  7. Carol from Boston says:

    @coolpeace and Liz – thanks so much for your insights and making me feel better. 🙂 coolpeace I agree with your thoughts on the reasons for my frustration. I think things will be a lot clearer when we learn the true identities of MIB and Jacob and that better be one of the clear answers that are revealed before the show ends.

    re: richard – help me with this fellow addicted losties. After Richard doesn’t kill Jacob and he goes back to MIB, MIB says he understands and offers to take him back at any time. He seems to accept it. So why does he react so violently and beat up Richard, and put him up in a bag and says “I am so disappointed in all of you” after Jacob dies and Richard realizes Locke is MIB. Why the sudden violence against Richard? What did Richard suddenly do that was so wrong?

  8. Coolpeace says:

    @ Carol : Maybe it is as simple as it has been 140 years since MIB first encountered Richard and he is now just frustrated that it took so long and looking back at what MIB had to do to execute the loophole – he was just in a bad mood. Also Jacob had just told him “they are coming” – whatever that exactly meant I am still unsure. Again, MIB had to kill all those others, had to reveal himself to Ben … Sorry, you had to see me this way…. he just was frustrated.

    That is my guess.

  9. Mattfromnd says:

    @Debbie in VA

    sorry to burst your bubble, MIB says “YOU brought them here”, not “we”.

  10. Steve from NYC says:

    @Coolpeace – Thanks for the heads up on the Meet the Filmmaker podcast. It was a good listen. Lots of other good guests in there too like the Coen brothers. Funny I live in the city and never noticed they held these in Apple SoHo, but I bet getting in involves a fair bit queuing that I’m not willing to do.

    The podcast reveals a little bit of their methods – the writing camps and the organic progression, writing in Starbucks of all places – very interesting.

  11. soko says:

    The island as a prison? In the beginning of the series I thought that the island was an amalgam of pop culture islands from TV history.
    Fantasy island ( it’s magical and your dreams come true ) –
    Gilligan’s island (everyone has a roll and no matter what attempt they make to get away they don’t )- and one important one The Prisoner.
    I was thinking along the lines of the island being an abandoned place where people lived in relative comfort yet could not leave. All seemingly set up to keep one person there while others would be there as well. That original series had a bubble that would go and catch people that attempted escape as well as a series of secret areas where the inhabitants would be observed from and studied.

    For a while we thought that Richard was going to be Egyptian, then we shifted to him coming on the Black Rock… then some said ” Well we already knew that” when this episode aired… No. You THOUGHT that, but you didn’t know.

    the Egyptian theme goes back further that Richard as we find out. Does it go back further that the MIB and Jacob or are they the connection?

    I think that there is more than one smoke monster.

    3 smokies from a pyramid.

  12. Carol from Boston says:

    @coolpeace thanks for the heads up re: the podcast, I’ll be sure to listen to it.

  13. Daniel in BC says:

    estroy, they corrupt”. Jacob is the one who is trying to prove him wrong by bringing people to the island and letting them find their way.

    Meanwhile MIB is looking for a loophole (one of the people who Jacob brings who turns against Jacob) to kill Jacob because if he succeeds then he can go off the island. Jacob is keeping MIB on the island only because he believes that if he goes off that he, doubting humanity, will kill everyone.

    Jacob was looking for candidates to replace him in keeping MIB on the island.

    MIB is recruiting so that he can kill all the remaining candidates, who Ilana is protecting.

    Jacob would have let MIB go but only if he had proven him wrong. only if MIB believes in humanity.

    Maybe MIB was a man once and Jacob turned him into a Smoke monster to keep him on the island… as a man, he could escape (like the O6) but as a monster he can’t.

    this is only a start of this theory

  14. Daniel in BC says:

    MIB is the one who doubts humanity. he says that “the come, fight, they destroy

    this cut off

  15. Rus from Texas (Lonestare) says:

    I really hope that when it’s all said and done, this entire Jacob/MIB/Island plot is more than just who’s bad, who’s good, blah, blah. The whole premise of evil incarnate leaving the island seems unrealistic and silly. I mean, look at the types of folks are who in prison and ask yourselves if there’s isn’t enough lawlessness already?

    L O S T fans are much smarter than that and it would be a slap in the face if the writers dumbed the storyline down to this in an overly simplistic fashion.

    Just the fact that we are speculating about these things now says the story needs to be more substantive. Seriously guys, does it really matter whether Jacob and MIB are good or bad in light of the incredible journey we’ve taken the past 5+ years? Sounds more like we’re discussing fantasy football. I blame the writers.

    Nine episodes so far, and it feels like we’re just starting getting somewhere. I think that Ab Aeterno was received so highly because it stands against episodes that have been weak (except for “Dr. Linus”) and parts of Ep. 1/2. Sure, it’s an okay episode, but to me, this is something they could have given us during Season 5.

  16. Mark B says:

    Not listened to the pocast yet so sorry if it’s been mentioned there but I have read about people saying about the Black Rock travelling to the New World and how the US was no longer the New World in 1867.

    I propose that the New World refered to by Whitfield was in fact Australia. This would explain how the Black Rock got to the island as we know it is in the general area of Auatralia.

    Furthermore there was a gold rush in the 1850’s …. could Hansos fortune be from gold and he was sending men to the gold mines ?

  17. Rich in Cleveland says:

    @Carol @ Coolpeace
    Even at this late stage so much remains unrevealed. To quote Charles Widmore, “It’s sad really how little you actually know.” I suspect once those missing pieces come into the light, we’ll all be jumping out of our collective seats.

    He who must not be named stuffs Richard into that canvass cocoon to get him out of the way of the temple purge and to soften him up for an eventual change of heart. MIB is angry with “the chosen” because they have served Jacob, slavishly according to him. Yet MIB needs them to live to achieve his escape–unless you believe he’s leading them to a promised land out of the goodness of his heart.

  18. ShannyMac3T0 says:

    I have not listened to the podcast yet but before I let Jen and Ryan make it all better for me (as usual) I have to say that I am REALLY worried… The next 9 hours must be all about answers and no more questions. Ok now off to listen to my favorite podcast ever.

  19. I liked what you had to say about the necklace and how Isabella said she missed Richard like she hadn’t been able to connect with him while it was buried. I’m trying to think if we’ve seen any other instances of this phenomena. Can anyone else think of any?

    The only one I came up with was Desmond’s picture of him and Penny, but nobody was dead and it may have been just a motivator to “fix” things (jumping around in time?) so that he and Penny could be together… I seem to remember that picture showing up at odd points, but that may have been to lead up to her being his constant…

  20. Sun (She didn’t mention it could be Jin? On purpose?) calls herself, Jack and Hurley candidates. She volunteered what she knew and was acting pretty confident. I thought it wasn’t Sun-like behavior… maybe she knows more…she does have some ownership in her father’s company and hence has some connection (however small?) to Widmore. The Widmore thing is what makes me think the candidate is Sun and not Jin. Maybe she’s just excited (or not) or curious about the candidate thing and so speaks first.

  21. The fact that the priest couldn’t forgive Richard and Jacob couldn’t either bothers me. It seems to be a clue of some sort. Is there no forgiveness in one time line? Is this a consequence of evil getting uncorked and out into the world? That can’t be- it doesn’t appear to be uncorked when the priest and Jacob say they can’t absolve him of his sin…unless I have my time lines mixed up…

    Reminds me of movies and such that explore the possibilities and consequences of what would happen if Jesus never died – his death and resurrection being what gives us forgiveness of sin- not automatically, but we have to obey/follow him. Maybe that’s reading too much into the Christian thing… Forgive me, I’m a fan religious themes 🙂

  22. Jen and Ryan,

    You all had suggested some reasons Jacob might not have wanted to die when fighting Richard and didn’t fight when Ben killed him. It could in fact be that he didn’t want to die at first, but needed or wanted to later or that it happened so many times he wasn’t surprised but I think it’s just like Miles said- he thought/hoped he was wrong about Ben, but wasn’t.

  23. Rus from Texas (Lonestare) says:

    P.S. Shout out to Jen and Ryan for their dedication to this Podcast. I’m sure it is a lot of work for you guys and i certainly appreciate you for it. You guys are HFC!

  24. @Rich: you got me wondering what are the questions I am waiting to get answered now… What don’t we know?
    I think he doesn’t kill the Candidate because he can’t. Bloody boy told him he could not do it.
    We know the Rules: Ben can’t kill Widmore that should not have been able to kill Alex, Richard can’t kill himself neither could Michael, MIB can’t kill Jacob or Sawyer… Only Ben could kill Alex (indirectly), John and Jacob.
    I think they are connected to the “Game” between Jacob and MIB and how humanity is to be judged by MIB worthy. That’s why a Candidate can’t be killed, he has to be tested.
    I think most of Dharma and Rousseau’s story has been explained (or we won’t see much more anyway). Maybe, who called the Purge is the last mystery their but I am sure we will make some sense of it eventually.
    The four toe’s statue… just finding out why it is their but I guess it will be explained with the Frozen Wheel, the Temple and how the Island works. Just thinking writing this: the Wheel was their while the well has not being build… We know when you move it time what we are touching moves with you… So… Does it comes from the future? (which could be our past) I am so looking forward to this answer.
    What big mystery is their left? Adam and Eve will be addressed I guess since we have seen them 4episodes ago.
    The Whispers, Christian, Libby, Walt and the Other Woman (they are all connected so I write them together)… We associated them with the Others but now with the latest reveal and if the Island might be a cork to Hell. I would say they are the “sound of Hell” and some apparitions of dead people. Walt was “strange” speaking backward and everything, I think he might have been a “try” of the dead to speak to the Losties. But then… are we supposed to guess that Jacob is in Hell?
    Walt as Walt will be addressed (if they just finished writing the last episodes I am sure they listened to the fan questions).
    Widmore, Hawking and Ben “knowledge” as leaders (but Widmore is here so it will be addressed soon I am sure).
    Faraday and Desmond need to come back soon and have an episode just about them so we know what is going on there.
    I know it is quite a long post (and that “lists” should not be made during the last season) but they are not that many questions left and I am more than confident that they will pull it of nicely now. And we will have a blast discussing philosophically and theologically the unanswered questions for some nice and fun years! 😀

  25. Chris says:

    Hey guys. Relatively new listener, first time commenter. I was listening to your latest podcast at work, and you were talking about how it would end. The topic of cycles came up, that the end of Lost the show would not be the end of Lost the adventure (that things would keep on going forever). Well, I think we’ve been given the clues in two of the books (or, one book, and one series of books) that have appeared in the show: The Third Policeman, and The Dark Tower.


    At the end of each novel, the main characters seem to be on their way – with no knowledge – to repeating their experiences again. In The Third Policeman, it’s a form of punishment, and I don’t think this is what Lost is going for (completely). However, at the end of The Dark Tower, it’s stated in the text – though not explicitly – that things are different this go-around. In the adventure we follow as readers, the lead character Roland often laments not having the horn of Gilead. When he starts the quest again, this time he does have the horn, suggesting that it will end for good this time.

    I think this is similar to what will happen simply because I think it’s what happened at the start of the series, when Jack woke up in the jungle instead of on the beach.

    Thanks for your podcasts and keep up the good work!

  26. Carol from Boston says:

    @coolpeace – really enjoyed the Meet the filmmakers podcast with Damian and Carlton. I highly recommend it.

    I am also coming to grips with accepting all the Jacob and MIB stuff, if this is the direction the show has gone it I might as well give into it, rather than fighting it and not enjoying the last episodes.

    On a fun note, instead of the island being corked, maybe the battle acts more like a drain and sucks the whole island in one piece to the bottom of the island. One never knows with this show.

    @Chris thanks for the spoiler alert. Glad you are joining us on the board, it’s lots of fun.

    @yann- Desmond is listed in the opening credits of every episode, so he must be coming back soon.

    @everybody – Adam and Eve – my theory, MIB and Jacob are brothers and the adam and eve skeletons are their parents. How old are the skeletons?

  27. Ginny says:

    Thanks for another great podcast!

    I listened to the clip of MIB talking to Richard, where someone questioned if Locke’s voice came out…I did NOT hear that at all. To me, the two actors’ voices do not sound at all alike. It sounded like MIB’s normal voice to me.

    I still don’t get the rules of the conflict between Jacob/MIB, or how that relates to Ben/Widmore. If Widmore was the leader of the Others, didn’t he report to Jacob via Richard? So did Widmore turn against Jacob when he was exiled, or did he just turn against Ben? I don’t think Widmore’s current motivations are clear. Sawyer assumed that Widmore wants destroy MIB, but I didn’t hear Widmore confirm it. (Did I miss it?)

    Also, I really hope we find out more about the Others, and their motivations and rules. If Jacob is supposed to be good, his “followers” don’t seem any better than MIB. I hope we’ll see exactly what MIB did to make Jacob call him “evil incarnate”. Clearly MIB is deadly as Smokey, but the Others have certainly done their share of killing.

  28. Coolpeace says:

    @ Carol : glad you enjoyed the filmmaker podcast – I love hearing those two talk about the show. If you want more – Jay and Jack interviewed by phone Damon during their 30 hour charity podcast and they published the interview, which runs 30 minutes at the end of their last podcast. I really enjoyed it.

    Search iTunes : The Lost podcast with Jay and Jack.

    RE: your Adman and Eve theory … if I remember correctly when Jack and Kate found the skeletons in season one, Jack mentions that they are approx. 40 years old. Too young for MIB and Jacobs parents.

    I am sure they will tell us, I also think we will get flashbacks or at least some origin story for MIB and Jacob at some point. I am sure that will shed some light on their conflict.

  29. docjkm says:

    Ryan and Jen- May I add my kudos to all those before, and to come, for your efforts in making this p’cast and blog an ongoing reality and a psychic dumping ground for overloaded Lost brains. I appreciate your patient but passionate enthusiasm, and open warmth to all.

    I make a request/plea. I do NOT think we will be sitting around with a satiated AAAH! late on May23rd. I read the posts above and I know I am in good company. Whatever it is in us that gets hi-jacked by a good story, unable to put the book down, or stop obsessing between weekly episodes, has been grabbed by this series, and grabbed good. And we hunger for resolution, for completion. But I don’t think it will come in the form many/most hope.

    I do have a request/plea and I’m getting to it. I too have a theory, but it is more mechanistic, having to do with the story itself. I don’t think Lost will end up disappointing us, and to avoid that the answers will not come as pablum. ANY set of answers will disappoint on some level, because we have all become addicted to the mystery, and like junkies, we gather weekly for our next dose. It’s what we like, like it or not. Admit it or not. And I think they will satisfy us, in the most initially frustrating way. I predict, and hope, that the last ‘thud’ will have us all open mouthed, mentally screaming WTF? and HFC!!! Yup, another mystery, a huge one. BUT it will be one solvable by application of all that has been given us. Maybe careful and tedious application, and undoubtedly open to interpretation, and disagreement. And, solving that will lead to the threads of resolution for the other major mysteries. And many minor mysteries will remain, as they should, as Darleton have admitted. That’s what I hope, and predict.

    Hence, my plea. Ryan and Jen, I think we will need you, and this, more AFTER the finale than ever. Please be open to this possibility, and don’t schedule your summer vacation for the day after. Be there for us addicts. Help us realize that the only remaining cure, the ultimate ‘fix’ will be you and us, threading it out together.

    I would never have enjoyed this, this Lost, without y’all everybody, to the incredible extent that I have. Would have missed a lot, which I was doing before I discovered Hawaiiup. So with my plea, and I do plea, also my thanks and appreciation for a job well done, and needed.

    I NEVER would have thought TV would hold something like this. Never!

  30. docjkm says:

    Darleton and gang – they think we’re smart. Treat us like we are. It feels so good, no?

  31. greenberry says:

    @docjkm ~~ the withdrawal pangs will be heavy indeed… it would be wonderful to have the forums (discussions) continue — a LOST seminar perhaps at some point, where we could gather even…

    Yet I know we are from around the globe!

    Cheryl from Delta, B.C. Canada (previously from L.A., Santa Cruz, Miami, and Israel)

  32. Eric in Sedona says:


    A few things to note if you’re going to read the Book of Job. Taken from a historical POV, not a religious one. Religious POVs are available from many if you wish them.

    —The big thing is that, as often happens in the Bible, the Book of Job contains two versions of the Job story. In the Book of Genesis, two creation stories (at least stories of human creation) were told one after another. In the Book of Job, Story #1, the older, shorter story is split in two and comprises the beginning and the end with the entirety of Story #2 being put in the middle. Story #1 is prose. Story #2 is actually poetry.

    —One key difference between the stories is that Job is portrayed differently in each version. In. . . (I don’t have to give a spoiler warning for the Bible, do I?) In Story #1, Job never gets angry at God. In Story #2, after a long conversation with the most annoying set of friends in the Bible, Job not only gets angry at God but demands God appear before to explain what is going on. God immediately shows up. [And Thud. . . Well, not really.]

    —Satan (or hasatan, “the Adversary.”) appears in this story. This is one of the first appearances of Satan in scripture. The portrayal is different form Satan as portrayed in later, especially Christian, belief.

    —The big point to Job is to explain why suffering exists. The predominant view of most Bible stories before this point was that for the people of Israel, bad things were held to be the result of breaking the Covenant, the agreement their ancestors made with God. Bad things happened to those who broke it; good things happened to those who kept it. And if the people as a whole were not living up to their obligations, the nation itself would suffer. But in the time Job’s story entered Jewish thought, the people suffering most were, to all appearances, those who had not turned against God and the Covenant. A new explanation was needed. Job’s explanation is merely one. Different texts endorsed different explanations.

    Hope this helps.

  33. Cian says:

    Ryan and Jen are awesome! Loved the podcast as usuall.

    One thing to consider is Richard’s episode didn’t have a flash sideways like every other episode so far this season. Does this maybe mean that Richard doesn’t exist in the flash sideways of 2004? Is it possible that he when down with the island? We know that the island is on underwater in 2004, but it couldn’t have been too long before that since Ben and his father were on the island before. Maybe in the flash sideways 1977 was the time the island went under because of some electromagnetic occurance as a result of the drilling that maybe detonated Jughead. This theory can show that the LOSTIES never went time traveling and never ended up there in 1977. Ben and his father could have easily left the island before this could have happened.

    Also, note how Jacob keeps bringing people to the island, yet when the Black Rock gets there the man in black lays waste to all but one. How often has this happened?

  34. Carol from Boston says:

    @Doc and Greenberry – I agree, Lost will not end our debate with the last episode. I think we’ll be commenting on it for quite some time. Perhaps a post Lost podcast called “Holy Freakin Crap” ha! I have a feeling that all of Ryan and Jen’s calls with the last episode will start with that. I may call in at some point if I can overcome nervousness about talking on air. Wondering how much of a Boston accent I have, hmmm, lol.

    @Greenberry – I didn’t realize how beautiful Canada was until the Olympics, or how big it was.

  35. Coolpeace says:

    @ docjkm, @ Carol, @ greenberry :

    Doc, I had a little water welling up in my eyes as I was reading your post… sniffff. You are right – it will be hard if we have to go cold turkey. Because you realize it is not so much the show itself as much as the community around the show; the boards, the forums, the recaps, the podcasts, that make us addicted. It is the whole experience around the show. And I think Ryan and Jen, will need us too.

    I will predict, that this fanbase will endure, as it has for other shows – I don’t know to what extend, will there be conventions, small local gatherings etc. but I do not think it will die on May 23rd. Take heart. We can’t all just vanish overnight 🙂

    My name is Paule and I am a Lost addict from Montreal, Canada. Paule pronounced “pole” and I am woman 😉

  36. Kristy from L.A. says:

    @Doc: Loved your post. As a fellow LOSTian, I enjoy your enthusiasm and passion for the mystery of LOST. I, too, enjoy the show for the big puzzle that it is. And I hope that the writers leave us hanging just a bit with more of what we’ve come to love: the thrill of putting the pieces together and finding the aha moment. The LOST community has become a life of its own, and we all know we will continue to commune together long after the series ends on ABC.

  37. shannymac3t0 says:

    I like the idea that Jacob can also be the smoke monster. Think about it people, it kinda makes as much sense as you can in our Lost world.

    Also, liking the idea that Jacob created or formed MIB al la God creating the devil. The devil was originally a normal human created by god that went wrong, right? It’s been a while since I was in religion class so no yelling at me if I am wrong lmao……

    Also, just need to know if anyone else while listening to the podcast finds themselves talking out loud to ryan and jen or the callers either disagreeing or agreeing or um, yellling?! or is that just me?!

  38. shannymac3t0 says:

    oh and um yea just bought Things you never noticed about Lost. I’d buy the toilets used on Lost if they sold it.

  39. Eckhard says:

    Jacob: “Everyone I brought to the island is dead.”
    Doesn’t this comment give some pause???

  40. greenberry says:

    @Carol ~~ hosting the Winter Olympics was beyond amazing (and hilarious how warm it was) — helped make this nation patriotic (the U.S. sure knows how to do this) ~~ I arrived here in 1980 at age 25.

    I listened carefully to the “you all” calls waitng for your ‘Boston’ voice, but alas it was your post that was referred to! — I too would be crazy nervous to speak aloud. Plus I am more reflective than predictive when it comes to LOST. Thanx for all the heart you put into this blog.

    @Coolpeace “hi” to you over on the other side of Canada — love your thoughtful posts — can’t wait to make it to your side of the country eventually!

  41. Fernando says:

    @Welshie loves LOST: Your theory made my head hurt, but it is interesting. However, at this point in the game, I have decided not to worry about the Black Rock ledger; I’ll see its background story, and the confusing dates as a production error rather than trying to explain all the discrepancies. But that is just me.
    Jen and Ryan, thanks for another great podcast.

  42. @shannymac3t0: Lucifer, the morning star/the light bringer was the most beautiful arch-angel of God and therefore hated human because God loved them more than him. Because of that he became Satan, the corrupter/ the adversery/the accusator and starts corrupting human being to prove his point to God. He has no power except the one that humans give him over their souls. Therefore he was cast out of Heaven and while falling to Hell lost his beautiful form as a punisment (usually represented by the “burned” wings from the fall).
    Funny thing: his first appearence is in the book of Job. The story is this: Job is tested: lost family, propriety and health but remain faithfull to God and at the end of the story, since he did not gave up, he is thrown back to a second life with family and everything.

  43. @everyone: It is great to be part of this, I love all your comments and this show is just so much fun! I said I would give a call since Rich gave one and I was waiting for Ab Eterno to call… but I thought we didn’t get that many answers yet (more when you think about but still…). Now I am waiting for Faraday’s return hoping they can make some sense to it all and there I will give a call if only to say “h f c”. If you are scare about your Boston accent wait to hear my “ouuutragous french accent” as the Monty Python would say.
    I keep saying that all the time but I hope I don’t “flood” the blog too much with all my crazy things. (among all those stupidity some stuff might actually be right one day!)
    Love the podcast, LOVE the blog (probably too much, I know) and love all your comments THAT is the most fun part of the show.
    Just can’t wait for tonight episode (even if I am afraid it might came flat after this one like Recon (which was great!) felt after Dr Linus)

  44. greenberry says:

    @Yann ~~ are you a philosophy major? You know a lot about that topic!! Keep the comments coming!!

  45. @greenberry: I am a philosophiæ doctor (PhD) student… but in chemistry

  46. greenberry says:

    @Yann ~~ thank-you for adding your braininess to this site! Can’t wait for tonight’s installment!!

  47. Love the Podcast guys. I did a Locke tribute caricature last night and thought you two might like it:

  48. Coolpeace says:

    @ Brian : Wow, you are really good. Great work.

    @ greenberry : “hi” back at ya!! “A Mari Usque Ad Mare” (from sea to sea).

    @ to all who feel they over post … don’t.

  49. greenberry says:

    @Brian ~~ VERY COOL — the mouth portion is particularly dead on — would love to see more as you create them… Ben with his pop-eyes? Ricardo with his eyeliner?

  50. Carol from Boston says:

    @Brian – great picture, wonderful detail. I would not want to be stuck on a deserted island with that guy.

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