On another thought has anybody noticed a color theme in all the episodes? I know there is the light and dark reference to Bakgammon. I’m talking about green and blue colors. Lock in the bathtub when Helen asked him what color sample he would chose. He picked out the green and Helen wanted the blue. The last few seasons Lock has been wearing green. If you go back and watch the all the episodes again you will seen the green or blue theme. Lock wearing a green plaid or green striped shirt. Also there is something with the eyes that appear to me, but I can’t put my finger on it. When Eloise was on the Island, I think it was the Jughead episode. When Eloise And Widmore were young and on the Island and didn’t like each other. Eloise eyes were brown. I think it was at the end of season 4 when Jack, Ben, and Desmond and all were at the Church with the pendulum, Eloise eyes were blue. And also when Desmond bought the ring from her in “Flashes before my Eyes” her eyes were blue. There have been other times when I have noticed people have different color of eyes.

By the way I love the idea of Locke and Jack sitting on the beach as the last scene, just as Jacob and MIB was. But it would have to mean Jack is dead and re incarnated as Jacob, because locke is dead, so really they will have no connection as theyre real characters. Hmm i think my brain just exploded!

I’m kind of hazy on the whole infection thing, because it’s implied that Claire’s madness was caused by the infection, but her symptoms are different from Sayid’s. True, Claire has been “sick’ for a few years, whereas Sayid has only had the sickness for a few days, but Claire was acting the same way as she is now when Locke discovered her in the cabin with Christian back in 2004.

Here’s what I’m thinking. Ben was infected when he was revived in the ’70s, but they couldn’t kill him for some reason or other, So maybe Richard’s orders were simply to keep Ben away from Jacob and the temple until another candidate arrived. This would explain why Richard delivered orders to Ben, but never allowed him to see Jacob, and why he’s apparently been making up rules as he goes, and why he’s so out of touch and lacking information. It would also explain why Ben and his crew moved into the Dharma barracks. They had no place to stay otherwise, and what better way, in Ben’s mind, to prove his loyalty to Jacob than to exterminate the people that oppose him?

Let me know what you think!

Another off topic – I was rewatching bits and pieces of season 5 and noticed Faraday’s mother mentioned the exact word, substitute, for Locke in the casket as Jack’s father. So Locke is a substitute, twice over.

@The author of “The Shadow” comparison
In some respects, this is very near to my conception of smokey’s ability to cloud our minds. I would not be shocked in the least to find that smokey’s powers far exceed a local range so that he may even conceal a dark citadel via the dream state he holds over the island. “How did we never see this lighthouse before?” is just a precursor.

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Great stuff.

As for Sundown…Holy. Freakin’. Crap. Sayid killing Dogen and Lennon has just taken a spot beside Michael shooting AL and Libby and the last scene of the Season 3 finale as one of the biggest “WTF?!” moments of the series.

-Josh in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

“In Chinese philosophy, the concept of yin yang is used to describe how polar or seemingly contrary forces are interconnected and interdependent in the natural world, and how they give rise to each other in turn. Many natural dualities — e.g. dark and light, female and male, low and high, cold and hot — are viewed in Chinese thought as manifestations of yin and yang.

Yin yang are complementary opposites within a greater whole. Everything has both yin and yang aspects, although yin or yang elements may manifest more strongly in different objects or at different times. Yin yang constantly interacts, never existing in absolute stasis.

There is a common misperception (especially in the West) that yin and yang correspond to good and evil. However, Taoist philosophy generally discounts good/bad distinctions as superficial labels, preferring to focus on the idea of balance.”

There are so many phrases in there that just jump out to describe Lost when thinking about almost all storylines: “interconnected and interdependant,” “give rise to each other,” “complementary opposites,” “constantly interacts.” And the last part about the misperceptions in West that yin and yang is always about good and evil.

I like to just watch the show thinking that it’s reflecting the reality that we all have good and evil in us, and it’s constantly ebbing and flowing back and forth. We see that in all the characters, as well as with Jacob and MIB.

Of all the awesome comments above, the one idea that jumps out to me as a way for the show to end would be to have Jack and Locke on the beach taking the roles as Jacob and MIB, as a another group of people come to the island whether by air (815) or by sea (Black Rock).

Just a quick comment on the subject of Desmond. Do you guys think we will see him on the island again or just in the flash sideways. Form me the comment from Eloise Hawking that the island was not done with him yet seemed to me like it had meaning and was not just a throwaway comment. I love the Desmond character and part of likes that he has his happy ever after with Penny but the other part of me wants to see him back on the island during the end game.

Keep up the good Job.

Chris from sunny Scotland.

If redemption is the key, what will Ben’s redemption be? And if those who die on the island then get transported to the Flash Sideways (an idea proposed earlier after Dogen’s death brought us back to last week’s piano recital) then maybe Ben will be reunited with….ANNIE! I’m waiting for his story to have full closure and a nice ‘love’ story would be a nice end to Ben… even if he’s a nerdy European History Teacher.

Also did any one else notice when Ben came out of the cave after killing Jacob and Richard took him and threw him down to show him DeadLock, DeadLock was wearing a blue suite and it was at night.
Then it was daylight and Illana, Ben, Lapiadus, and Sun put DeadLock in the hammock to carry him to Boone hill to bury Deadlock his suite was brown. Then when they put him in the grave his suit was blue. When they put him in the grave the sun was blocked out.
Orangeboxers Jesus was not an only child he had a brother.

http://www.terrybutler.co.uk/2010/03/06/lost-s06e06-sundown-figure-in-the-smoke-monster/

Riding the missile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueuauKKjPZI

also
aaron is an only child
charlie (penny/des’s kid) is an only child
jack’s son david is an only child

oh, and jesus, btw, was an only child.

i don’t know. seems more than accident, but don’t know why.

Will Dogen & Lennon be revived ala Sayid from the gurgling pool? If so, what does that mean?

OR did Dogen’s heart-to-heart with Sayid about his son and the car accident highlight LAST week’s episode with Jack’s son playing piano and Dogen’s son being there. Something that was just weird last week but now much more profound!

OR was Dogen LAST WEEK a vision/ghost to Jack ala Christian and Charlie (to Hurley) and his son was there (alive and well complimenting David’s piano playing) but Dogen is actually DEAD?

My head is now spinning

It seems also that Jacob is more upfront about the ‘deals’ he offers people. MiB offers something tempting and clearly unnatural–Sayid will be reuinited with his dead lover–which may come with unforseen costs. Classic deal with the devil: a selfish reward in the present, with eventual damnation as the cost.

Jacob offers such a bargain to Dogen, but the nature of it is very different: He’s offering not to raise the dead, but to subtly influence a death not to happen. And he’s upfront about the costs: Dogen must give up his life, never see his son again. He’s essentially offering Dogen an opportunity to sacrifice himself for someone else’s benefit, which is a ‘hard bargain’ but karmically more beneficial.

Regarding Sayid, he basically gave in to despair, gave in to his worst feelings about himself: I’m nothing more than a killer, a thug. It’s always seemed to me that each of the main characters is caught in a struggle between their true (higher) nature, and a negative self-image, which always exerts an addictive pull.

@Ryan and Jen: Only 10episodes left… I wanted to check the blog where we all posted our “what question do you want to be answered” to check how far we are but only the podcast is left… Is there a way to put it back? Did I missed it?

At any rate, when Locke appeared to Sayid, and Sayid stabbed him, Locke talked to Sayid BEFORE Sayid stabbed him!!! When Sayid returned to the Temple, Dogen asked him is the person talked before he stabbed him? Sayid messed up which is really hard to believe. He is always a killer, no matter when, or where he exists, but he did not take directions well.

Did anybody notice in the scene where the smoke monster (MIB) flies over Kate’s head, while she is hanging in the pit that Claire is in, you can see things in the smoke? I thought it might be people, or body parts, but I cannot be sure. I also think Smokey was ‘flashing’ as well.

I am just guessing here but Jack is really important to the whole plot. Once he realizes what ‘work’ he has to do, he will be the last man standing. Sorry, but I think all of our Losties will be DOA, in the Island time line. The other time line, in my opinion, will be the surviving, redeemed, time line. The last five years were ‘just progress’.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

@mirepoix – does hulu or Netflix work for you for viewing episodes? Don’t forget they’ll probably replay it next week in an enhanced version. Yann might be able to find a site for you since he has the same problem being in France.

… that it is clouding our judgments. (not ‘your’)

It just occured to me that maybe we are over thinking and that we should just let them tell their story.

Of course, all the fun is in the theorizing, isn’t it??

The famous conversation warrants a better look:

JACOB: I take it you’re here because of the ship.
MAN IN BLACK: I am. How did they find the Island?
JACOB: You’ll have to ask them when they get here.
MAN IN BLACK: I don’t have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren’t you?
JACOB: You are wrong.
MAN IN BLACK: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.
MAN IN BLACK: Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?
JACOB: Yes.
MAN IN BLACK: One of these days, sooner or later… I’m going to find a loophole, my friend.
JACOB: Well, when you do, I’ll be right here.

When I rewatched this conversation between Jacob and MIB, it occured to me that maybe we are hung up on the wrong issue. It is not important who is good and/or who is evil, RATHER it is a conflict between the two men. jacob is trying to prove that MIB is wrong about ‘THEY’ and about what THEY do.

MIB says ‘They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.’

We should possibly assume that the THEY they are talking about is man/humanity/mankind. Or maybe it is more specific and they could be talking about a specific group of people, a bloodline… and I think that is somewhat irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Jacob is intent in showing MIB that he is wrong in his conclusion and that it is not over until its over, and that anything that happens prior to that end is progress.

However, there are rules and they must follow them in trying to prove their theories.

MIB is tired and wants out (to go home). He can only do that if Jacob is killed and he will then be one step closer to being free to leave.

There is obviously something more to it or else after killing Jacob he would have left. But there must be more to do. He needs to recruit, to accomplish the next steps to going home.

Now, in order to accomplish their goals of proving the other wrong … and by following the rules … they can manipulate, coherce, infulence, nudge etc.

Because each entity has a different ideology, MIB believes that man will always fight, destroy and will corrupt or be corrupted; and Jacob believes the opposite that man can move beyong those basic traits and learn and grow.

Because MIB thinks that THEY will always fight, destory and corrupt, it is no surprise that he attempts to gain an advantage by interveneing and appealing to those traits in his recruits.

Whereas, Jacob on the other hand tries to appeal by giving a choice, by providing life experiences that may foster growth in his candidate, suggesting free will or at times as for Jack put him in a situation and letting him come to his own conclusions.

And throughout the last five season we have seen that over and over again with our Losties (Jacob’s candidates).

Sayid tortures Sawyer in the first season over Shannon’s inhaler, and by season 5 Sawyer is willing to risk everything to free Sayid from the jail cell.

Sayid has always wanted to become a ‘good man’ and redeem himself from his past actions, however, when he has an opportunity to do so, he sacrifices his dream of redemption in order to protect his friends, family and loves ones. He does not accept Sawyer’s plan to get him out of the jail cell, nor does he want to pretend to defect to Others from the Hostiles in “HE’s OUR YOU” .

Kate finally realizes that rising Aaron while Claire is on the Island is not a good way to live and decides to go back and bring back Claire and live with the concequences of breaking parole.

God, I hope I did not put anyone to sleep… I know it all sounds very basic and thats my point. That we are so caught up about who is good and evil and black and white, that it is clouding your judgements. In essence, the writers are drowning us in details – which are interesting granted but not essential to the story so that we can argue about this and that and not see the forest for the trees.

“It’s not about whether or not we have the time. It’s about whether or not it matters”

@docjkm – couldn’t agree more – they are making it too easy, MIB has an underground cave (down like hell) , Jacob has a lighthouse – towards the sky like heaven, one wears black, one wears white. I still feel both characters have good and bad sides. Their main battle, Jacob wants to stay, MIB wants to leave.

Why did MIB lose his original body and become smoke and have to inhabit other bodies?

Long live Team Dark

And I believe there’ only one way he can be stopped.

Jack has to die. It’s the ‘important’ thing he has to do.

We have two powerful men in this storyline, Jacob and the Man In Black. We’ve seen them portrayed as light and dark, and we’ve had the MIB referred to as pure evil. We’ve also seen both of them manipulate people. We now know that there’s some kind of alignment scale that is pivotal, and we know that Jacob has been manipulating people’s lives for his own purpose.

I’ve spoken previously about the Night Watch tetralogy by Sergei Lukyanenko. To quote wikipedia:

“The story revolves around a confrontation between two opposing supernatural groups (known as “Others”): the Night Watch, an organisation dedicated to policing the actions of the Dark Others—and the Day Watch, which polices the actions of the Light Others.”

In these stories a “truce” exists between the two factions, keeping balance. If one side acts outside the truce (i.e uses their powers for their own purposes) they effectively give permission to the other side to commit an act with the same kind of magnitude. An early example in the stories is one character influencing a drug dealer to give up his “dark” ways. If caught, he risks allowing the other side to influence someone to find their dark path.

When humans become “others”, the two factions aren’t allowed to directly recruit them, they must find their own path, but a situation that arises in the story is the notion that one side can influence a person subtly, by changing other things.

This notion doesn’t seem too dissimilar to occurrences in Lost. The Man In Black finds a loophole to kill Jacob. He influences another character, and causes that character to murder Jacob. It’s made entirely clear to us during the scene that Ben is killing Jacob out of his own free will. Jacob even makes sure that it’s Ben’s choice. Something that can’t be said of Sayid’s attempt to stab Fake-Locke in this episode. But we’ll get to that later.

Free will is the key, getting humans (and especially the candidates) to deviate and pick one side or the other.

Loved this episode, just finished a big analysis on http://www.tinyblob.com as usual

–
aaron in scotland

Now, I know that she wasn’t previously dead but just for a split second there I thought Sayid may make a mistake and use the knife on her.

2. Sayid intentionaly pushed them in the pool because those were Locke’s instructions. Thus making them vulnerable to infection and pwerful allies for Locke?

Just for the record, I was truly disappointed in the epi this week. So much bordered on cheesy and was underdeveloped. Are the producers losing interest?

Enough with the good versus evil, two sides of the same coin. We get it. Enough with the cheesy, over-the-top lines (last week Hurley, this week Miles).

There is something (I can’t pinpoint it) lacking in the mystery, the mythology, the story coming together. This is supposed to the be climax! The FINAL SEASON! The very best of the very best!

Meh.

Oh, and this week’s scenes with Kate and/or Kate and Miles. Some baaaad acting! C’mon LOST, you’ve got way more than this.

Ever since Faraday died at the hands of his mother, whom he was older than (tricky stuff right there), I’ve been looking for another character to make my favorite. Season 3 was Locke, Season 4 was Desmond, Season 5 was Faraday, and now Season 6 was Dogan. It seems as if I keep choosing people who will die or not be on the show again [Desmond] (but he better be back in some fashion (could he be the one who is coming to the island when Jacob told Hurley?).

I am wondering though who was the kid that Sawyer and UnLocke saw and why couldn’t Richard Alpert see him? And is it the same entity that appeared before Locke in the grave full of DHARMA members, as Walt?

@Kyle Ben didn’t suffer the same changes as did Sayid, because when Ben was taken to the spring, the water was clear. The water turned cloudy due to Jacob being killed, thus giving UnLocke full control of the power of the spring, since the spring wasn’t balanced with good & evil, it is complete evil. That’s my take on the spring anyway.

Just a few episodes ago, while Sayid lay dying in the temple, he expressed his regret for all of his past transgressions and was filled with self-loathing. Then, after his “rebirth,” he decides that he is a “good man” and is willing to aid in the extermination of the templars. Something smells fishy here. If we assume that Ben received the same “treatment” as a child, he may have been acting under the influence of whatever changed Sayid.

It also brings the purge of the Dharma Initiative to mind. I wouldn’t be surprised if we found out that Ben had been tricked by the MiB into facilitating it. Maybe the MiB impersonated Ben’s mother?

what is there left for him to do?

Someone on another blog thought that Sayid did not look in a mirror in this episode. Does anyone remember if he did? And if he didn’t, does that say something about the fact that he hasn’t changed as much as the other sideways characters?

Also, I am loving a new crackpot theory. Maybe sideways Ben will turn out to be Alex’s (real) father, and the mother is Danielle. He could have met Danielle in France while completing his European history studies.

And I’m sorry to say this to all Sayid fans, but it was over for me when he declared his love for Shannon. I thought that whole arc was totally unbelievable.

Please note that this is a string of theories that comprise one large mega theory. It is based on the following points, though we encourage you read the full explanation for better clarification.

1. If Jacob and Anti-Jacob are supposed to embody two opposing forces, white and black, yin and yang, it is possible that we are dealing with the same person.
2. Jacob and Anti-Jacob cannot kill eachother nor can they directly kill a candidate.
3. Candidates can kill each other.
4. Anti-Jacob willingly came to the island as a sacrifice to save someone he loved.
5. Jacob is eternal as he has imbued Anti-Jacob and others with his power.
6. Jacob is able to manipulate things on the island via Hurley and those loyal to him whom have been imbued with his power.
7. Jacob is looking for Anti-Jacob’s replacement, not his own.
8. Jacob will reincarnate himself through one of his loyal followers.

Explanation

Buddhist and Shinto divinities are at both times maliciously evil and benevolently good. As most viewers grew up under Western ideologies, it is natural for many people to want to apply good or evil to the players when that is not the case at all. LOST has historically borrowed heavily from Eastern ideologies, wherein there is no strict schism between the ideas of good and evil. These religions also have many deities that are assigned to specific areas or set specific tasks.

As such you have Jacob, all powerful immortal who has both good and evil traits. It may also be safe to assume that Jacob is a lesser entity in charge of just the island, which would be in line with Eastern ideologies. The blonde boy with bloody hands that anti-Jacob sees in the jungle may be his boss or just another rung up the ladder, as in Stephen King’s Insomnia.

Jacob may have made an offer of sorts, similar to that of Juliet and Dogen, to Anti-Jacob by offering to save the life of someone whom Anti-Jacob loved. The terms may have been that in return Anti-Jacob must come to his island to work and never see the person he is saving. As we know this occurred with Juliet’s sister and Dogen’s son. It may also be safe to assume that Jacob himself was given an offer much like this by a higher power thus his attachment to the island. Nevertheless, more than likely Anti-Jacob agreed, and as Juliet & Dogen before him he received a very specific job. He was assigned as the island’s protector, or rather the muscle to protect it. To better facilitate this purpose Jacob splits off the darker part of his power (as a benevolent being), and infuses Anti-Jacob with it thus allowing the man to become an immortal. Anti-Jacob then exists to keep the island safe as “Cereberus,” while Jacob brings people to the island to act as its caregivers, much like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.

Over time Anti-Jacob begins to tire of this arrangement, and wants to leave the island and go home, but he cannot as he is now tied to the island. He begins to think that in killing Jacob he will become free, but does not realize that Jacob’s spirit cannot die.

But why would Jacob have an evil side that is seemingly working against him…why would he give someone that power?

Anti-Jacob may well have been truly agreeable and willing to Jacob’s terms in the beginning, but much like Juliet, may have tired and wanted to go home. When Anti-Jacob was initially a man he may have been the first true infection. Having so much dark energy within him may have permanently contaminated his soul thus truly creating the polar contrast to Jacob. The bloody blonde boy told Anti-Jacob, “You know the rules, you can’t kill him.” Perhaps in a nod to Harry Potter, neither can die while the other one lives. The only way Anti-Jacob can kill Jacob would be to kill himself somehow in the process. This would also explain why Jacob is still walking around the island manipulating things via Hurley. His spirit has not been destroyed, and eventually will find another body to inhabit thus continuing the infinite time cycle or the concept of the Shen Ring. The Shen ring is an ancient Egyptian symbol of eternity and protection.

Since we cannot trust Anti-Jacob the candidates may be for his replacement, and not for Jacob’s as he states.

Jacob may be able to transfer power from one willing person to the next. An ability reserved only for him since it is his own power that he’s using. Anti-Jacob doesn’t like this idea because 1) he is powerful right now and 2) if that power is taken away what’s stopping Jacob or the new Anti-Jacob from killing him. Which would explain why Anti-Jacob is rounding up candidates. If they are already under his influence then perhaps Jacob cannot use them. Meaning if they have been infected then Jacob would be loathe transferring power to that person, he would be creating another person that hates him enough to want to kill him. If Anti-Jacob has been walking around taking the forms of certain people, aka Christian Shepherd, Alex Rousseau, Yemi, he may have been trying to find one that would garner the most followers or the followers he wanted. This may be why Anti-Jacob ultimately took the form of a candidate.

Of all the candidates, Locke wanted to protect the island the most. He wanted to stay on the island the most. He would have been Jacob’s most willing successor to Anti-Jacob. Precisely the person Anti-Jacob would want under his control the most. Anti-Jacob had already attempted to kidnap Locke as early as the first season when he attempted to pull him underground. This failed when he got pulled out of the hole.

There seem to be implied Rules of the Island that both Jacob & Anti-Jacob abide by. They seem to indicate that Jacob & Anti-Jacob cannot kill each other, and also that a candidate cannot be killed by them. This is implied by the blonde boy with bloody hands, and the fact that we have not seen Jacob or Anti-Jacob actually kill a candidate themselves though Anti-Jacob has attempted to do so indirectly. Anti-Jacob took the form of Dave in an attempt to convince Hurley to commit suicide by jumping off a cliff in season two. Besides this there seems to be nothing stopping candidates from killing each other. Shannon gets shot by Ana Lucia, Rutherford is listed in the Lighthouse and in the cave. Locke kills Naomi Dorrit who is suspected of being a name in the Lighthouse. Sawyer shoots Mr. Friendly after he surrenders. The list goes on. So Anti-Jacob could be rounding up candidates for the sole purpose of having a Battle Royale where they all kill each other while he just watches. The fear of the rules keeps anti-Jacob in line and keeps Jacob safe, hence why Jacob did not seem concerned about the discussion of a loophole; the rules would create the ultimate Catch-22.

As Jacob’s spirit cannot be killed he may very well choose the body of someone we know to be reincarnated. I believe Richard or Dogen may be the next incarnation of Jacob. Both seem to have been given special abilities by Jacob. Richard is seemingly immortal and able to recognize peoples spirits (but he seemed oblivious to the fact that it was Anti-Jacob that helped him to heal real Locke after real Locke got shot) and Dogen was the force keeping Anti-Jacob out of the temple. Both seem to be traits of Jacob yet they are still mortal men. This theory make work like the horcruxes of Harry Potter, but in a less evil way. Adding strength to the Dogen theory, he did not seem to resist Sayid’s murder of him. The pool is not exceedingly deep, three feet at most. It would have been possible for Dogen to find his legs and counterattack Sayid given his extensive knowledge of martial arts. Dogen is the only character on LOST that has been able to best Sayid in hand-to-hand combat. Sayid had beaten countless others, including trained mercenary Keamy and military veteran Mikhail, the latter with only one good arm. Dogen seemed to have left his guard down and left himself vulnerable after telling the story of how he had come to the island, but it is unlikely that he would have unintentionally left himself in that situation without knowledge of another sacrifice he may have to make.

Dogen, being the Temple Master and knowing about the candidates, knows that Jacob and Anti-Jacob cannot kill candidates. He knew Sayid was a candidate and purposefully set things in motion that would ensure Sayid would want to want to leave for the purpose he did. He attempted to have Jack poison him knowing that Jack would not go through with it but create doubt in Sayid. Then when Sayid eventually challenges him he can stage a fight which would then banish Sayid. Anti-Jacob arrives and he sends Sayid out to talk to him, thus ensuring his transformation would be complete, and then does not have him removed from the temple after Sayid delivered his message. Dogen’s seeming inability to kill candidates himself points to him being tied to the same rules as Jacob and Anti-Jacob. Perhaps those who share in Jacob’s power are limited to his rules. Plus Dogen making a sacrifice (again mind you) would allow another to live, Jacob. He was drown in Jacob’s pool of watery resurrection, and Jacob was seen fiddling near the water’s edge in “Lighthouse” when Hurley asked where the cafeteria was located. Two of the three characters drowned in that pool, Sayid and Ben (implied) have returned to life. It is safe to assume that Dogen himself will return to life.

It may also not be outside the realm of possibility that, although Jacob only makes himself visible to Hurley, he may be able to speak to Dogen and Richard in other ways, such as in meditative visions. After all Richard never comes back to the temple when he was easily a day’s walk from it. He may have been tipped off by Jacob to stay away, likewise Dogen was informed that he would have to die. With the island being at the bottom of the sea in the flash sideways, perhaps that’s what would happen if Anti-Jacob kills both of himself and Jacob at the same time.

- Kate was told by Jack that Claire wasn’t at the Temple, that he didn’t know where she was but that the Temple people knew about her. So she probably went back to the Temple to get info/question them. Which does make sense.

-But… yes, the Kate comments to Claire were stupid. “I took your son after you abandoned him in the jungle… etc. would’ve been smarter. But the Miles comments to Kate about Claire sounded stupid too.

- I actually didn’t like this epi much; would like to see the characters having more interaction WITH each other, rather than spewing exposition at each other. And yes, the alterna flash sideways took too long and didn’t do much. Stupid comments from the kids, etc.

- Jack smashed the Lighthouse mirrors with a spyglass much like the amulet on Dogen’s necklace.

- Jacob poured something from a small vial into the Temple Pool in the Lighthouse before he gave instructions to Hurley. What will this mean, if anything, for Dogen & Lennon?

1. Where is the island?
2. Why were the losties brought to the island?
3. Importance of Desmond
4. Widmore’s role
5. Christian
6. Why Richard doesn’t age.
7. What are Jacob and MIB fighting about?
8. What are the powers of the island and where do they come from?
9. Why can’t the woman on the island have children?
10. How does the island heal?

I am trying to remember what those questions are — “Who are you people?” comes to mind — Jack and Kate and Sawyer have probably asked the majority throughout the series…

I would love some reminders, from you astute fans, of what the main questions are from the Losties’ perspectives as opposed to us viewers — since I do not have the time presently to rewatch all the episodes

After reading some recaps of this season, I have drawn some interesting inferences. It has been frequently mentioned that Locke is like the Biblical serpent, tempting Eve to eat off of the Tree of Knowledge. I think that this is close, but not quite. Remember that there were TWO trees in the Garden of Eden: the tree of Knowledge (Eve’s)…and the Tree of Life.

I think that the Man in Black represents the Tree of Knowledge, while Jacob represents the Tree of Life. Think about it. The Man in Black is all about the pursuit of truth. He told Claire that he always keeps his word. He’s promised several characters to tell them the truth about why they’re on the Island. He told Ben the truth about wanting to kill Jacob.

Then there is Jacob and the Tree of Life. Everything about Jacob suggests reincarnation and life. He brought back Dogan’s son and Juliet’s sister. His pool brings people back to life (such as Ben). Richard is never-aging. Remember the van whose anagram spelled “Reincarnation?” That probably had something to do with Jacob. Perhaps we now also have the mystery of Mikhail’s three lives solved.

After eating from the Tree of Knowledge, Adam and Eve were banned from Eden and could not eat from the Tree of Life (which was not banned in the first place). In addition, Eve was given the curse that women would have pain and suffering in childbearing (sound familiar?).

Today, according to Christan theology, God has given man a second chance at eating from the Tree of Life: by following the gospel of Jesus Christ. When Christ comes back to Earth at Armageddon, Satan will be cast down and the Tree of Life replanted.

So…I don’t really know where I’m going with this, but the dualism between life and knowledge seemed too significant to ignore. I also remember from my Hebrew Bible class freshman year that the Bible does not state that the attainment of knowledge from the tree was a bad thing. Indeed, some interpret it as the moment that mankind was born, and was obtained our knowledge that separates us from all other living things. Perhaps LOST is exploring this same dichotomy…life, innocence, and ignorance vs. sin, death, and knowledge. I may be very far off, but it’s food for thought.

jen, you’re idea about the “he can come in now” line referring to MIB having access to Dogen’s soul is brilliant!

Anyside Jack and Hurley are on, has to be the “light” side. The big question for me is the role that Kate (stuck on the wrong side) and Sawyer (missing in action) will play in helping bring down MIB in the war – and I think they will.

This is really exciting….loving the ride….

In the auction the note from Ben about sparing Juliet is interesting, still wondering all these years later why she had to be “marked” and why they did it? Seems very medieval.

@greenberry- you are not alone, I am a Kate fan too.

@Yann I am wondering what the actual fight in the end will be like since Smokey can wipe out everybody at one time if he wants to, what kind of battle will it be? What type of weapons? If he has killed all the temple others, who is left to battle with him? There are only about 10 or so people left on Jacob’s side. Right now we have Ben, Ilana, Jin, Jack, Hurley, Miles, Sun, Kate, Lapidus, and Richard. Everybody else “appears” to be with MIB. Though I dont’ believe for one second Sawyer is really with him.

Kate could be the key, both Jack and Sawyer will do anything to save her, including sacrificing themselves.

Maybe MIB needs all of Jacob’s followers to be gone before he can “win” and leave. If one is left standing does that mean he has lost?

Is there anything to the fact that people are never killed by getting hit or shot in the head other than it’s what they do on TV shows?

Seems like an amazing amount of trial and error would need to take place to have a system that would protect them long enough to build their whole operations on the island, unless they arrived with an immense amount of foreknowledge of the island and its properties, and the properties of the Smoke Monster. Remember, Radzinsky’s map had many of the “Cerebus Vents” mapped out.

It could not have been something that was thought of on the fly. They went to the island expecting hostility and they came prepared. Why?

So far, Season 6 has pretty much ignored the Darhma Initiative. We never found out what Radzinsky’s edits from the Swan film were and why they were made. I am fully confident that when DI get’s re-introduced to the story, it will be epic and jaw droppingly entertaining. Meh…maybe it will have to be fanfic written after the finale.

First off, a lot of what MIB has said to characters this season is very close to things attributed to Satan in classic literature. He promises answers to Alpert and Sawyer -much in the way Adam and Eve was promised knowledge. He tempts Sayid in this last episode with the thing he wants most, similar to Kazantakis’ take on temptation in “Last Temptation of Christ.”

Earlier this season, MIB notes all those who have followed Jacob without ever actually hearing or seeing him….much in the way the faithful of many denominations practice their faith in a supreme being.

The fact that few people outside of Hurley have actually seen or spoken to Jacob, leads one to ponder if the violence done in Jacob’s name is reflective of his true nature or not.

MIB, on the other hand, has been killing people ever since the pilot episode.

As for Jacob bringing people to the island, risking their lives and submitting them to tragedies and hardships along the way….well, spiritual figures from Buddha to Moses suffered similarly. Regardless of religiosity, could the writers be making the point that it is only through an epic hero’s journey that one attains goals for the greater good and ultimately achieves their greatest potential?

Think about it…MIB keeps asking people what THEY want as individuals. Jacob at the very least has summoned the LOSTies into a communal experience, with Jack’s mantra “Live together or die alone.” Until the true nature of the island is revealed, as well as the true nature of Jacob and MIB’s conflict, its anybody’s guess. But after SIX seasons, I would like to think there is an epic reason for everything these characters have endured.

Or maybe its all one of VIncent’s doggie dreams!

Btw.. Ben and Locke are half-brothers by the same mother.

I know this doesn’t have anything to do with the latest episode, but if you want a break from theorizing, you could check this out. If you are like me, all you can do is dream about owning a piece of Lost history…I could never even afford to bid.

Can someone please tell me what makes a candidate? For me, this is one of my most important questions I would like answered. I mean, a lot of people have “daddy” issues (I noticed a lot of people refer to this in the past) – so this can’t be it. I just can’t put my finger on how candidates are selected. Why Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Kwon (notice, I didn’t mention which per the number sequence on the lighthouse wheel and cave) and so on and so forth?

A particular shout-out to Rich in Cleveland and coolpeace — your comments consistently resonate with me…

Thank-you to lostinla for your sensible remark above — I always feel so alone being a Kate fan and wanting a worthy ending for her

“The Transmission” is the best!!!

But first a thought about Kate’s reaction when she came out of the temple. Kate was going after Claire and when she came out of the door she notices Locke – and that was why she looked bewildered, as far as she was concerned Locke was dead. This was her first encounter with ressurected Locke.

Now, as for MIB’s reaction to Kate coming out and “joining” his team, I believe he was annoyed that she was there and he had not calculated her being with him… maybe he feels she will be a foil to his plan… maybe he can’t kill her because she is a candidate… maybe he doesn’t know she is a candidate (she was no on the cave wall).

In any event, I think MIB was unsure what to make of Kate’s presence. Which will be interesting to see how it will work out.

and @ Bonita : I agree that this week Claire seemed less crazy… at least when speaking with MIB before going in to the temple. In fact, she seemed almost unsure with her “friend”. Like she was doubting him and his ability to deliver her Baby. Can she be turned by Kate???

For me, this seemed like the darkest episode of Lost’s 6 seasons. Sad to see Sayid turn to the dark side, joining Claire in the Satanic Possession Club. Hopefully, he’ll be redeemed somewhere along the way. But wow, drowning Bruce Lee and slitting Lennon’s throat…really weighty, scary stuff. And Claire is looking like something out of a horror novel.

I think we can stop with the idea that MIB is actually a good guy (or that Jacob is the bad guy). Claire and Sayid are under an EVIL spell, courtesy of MIB…we’ve never seen Jacob do anything even remotely like that. Quite on the contrary, Jacob has alluded to man’s free will to choose between right or wrong. Also, MIB/Smokie is the one going around KILLING people, not Jacob. C’mon, Ryan and Jen, say it with me…MIB is BAD BAD BAD.

I think.

It was great to see the Keamy character again….what a GREAT bad guy. Great actor, really brought a lot to that small role. I thought for sure we were going to see another great fight scene between him and Sayid, but no, Sayid pulls an Indiana Jones and shoots him. And then we have Jin in the freezer…what’s THAT all about?

Back on the island, where was Sawyer? Jin?

Just two things really. A few have mentioned seeing something in the Smoke, and I did too, but no idea what it was. After replaying it (sadly download quality so no point in pausing) but as whatever it is passes over Kate, there is definetly a scream to go along with it.

Secondly, and I think I’m the only one, at least from what I’ve seen, to comment on this, but the final LOST credit (“anddd thud”), I noticed instantly this looked different this week. It was so bright, a brilliant white colour. I loaded up ep 3 and compared, and it was a regular grey. Surely this has some kind of significance, as clearly they don’t recreate the logo every week, so this has to be deliberate. This could be just me, but I don’t think so!

Excellent episode this week, finally one that both on island and off activities have kept me entertained and glued to the screen!

Cheers guys,
Mark

My Sayid! After trying so hard to conquer his past, he goes all crazy and lets the the smoke monster kill everyone in the Temple?

I know that there are sometimes unhappy endings, but I am not looking forward to this one. I want our Losties to be the heroes and save the day, all of them.

I think that the same thing happened to Dogen. Jacob somehow caused the accident and told Dogen that his kid will live if Dogen came to the island. Dogen, like Juliet, could not say no so they agreed. Jacob also wanted Dogen because he was a candidate too.

Jacob would do anything to get his candidates to the island and keep them there until they either die (not the right candidate) or become the new protector. Sometimes you could just Guide someone to the island by touching them, other times you just have to convince them by giving them a choice knowing already what they would chose.

Maybe these trees afford protection to those who lie within them. Maybe it is one of the rules?

“Finally, I do love my quasi-scientific crackpot theories. Obviously, the reason Sayid failed to kill Flocke was that he allowed him to speak. I believe this has to do with sound waves. These waves allow smokey to project his web of illusion, kind of like a siren song. It’s also why we don’t trust electronics. He uses the same ability to project voices over the intercom or send messages via the swan computer.”
————————————-

If you say that the sound waves allow smokey to project a web of illusion – how then would sound waves prohibit him from trepassing or protect against him? I am not sure I understand.

Can you elaborate?

it makes poetic sense that the show would end on a final battle between these two as upside-down versions (alice in wonderland) of themselves.

My theory is that Jacob & Smokey were one child, and for some reason split into to beings. One who represented the “good” side and the other the “evil.” So Smokey could not kill himself aka Jacob so someone touched by Jacob had to do it. Sayid could not kill Smokey because he was not pure but infected. However I do think someone like Jack (or Hurley) could stab and kill Smokey.

Perhaps something like Man of Faith vs. Man of Science?

Think about it — that difference has what has always kept Jack and Locke at odds throughout the entire series. Locke is already the MIB — and they’re looking for a replacement for Jacob. And Jack is currently in search of what he believes.

Anyway, that’s my crackpot theory.

love the concepts presented to us; the scene between Keamy and Sayid was classic. i ate poached eggs&toast in honor of the epic return of kevin durand. great point, @coolpeace, that by killing keamy&co. in the sideways reality, sayid saved jin.

wanna see where kate fits in, she’s seeming a little “lost” lately.

where the hell is sawyer? last we saw, he was in the wilderness with unlocke, no? i hope he has a swerve in store for the dark side..

jacob had to have known jack would go apeshit and smash the mirrors, but what does that mean for the future of the island? could the mirrors have been in some way linked to the images presented by smoke monster?

can’t wait to rewatch this ep.!

I watched again, and Claire didn’t say, “send someone he won’t kill”, she said “send someone YOU WANT killed.”

interesting.

For those of you who think we are not getting anywhere, I say please rewatch. The wonderful thing with LOST, which has always been there since season one and which I believe the majority of the fans really enjoyed and found spectacularly different from the rest of the fare in TVland is that LOST writers DO NOT dumb down and spoon feed its audience. It is precisely the subtleness of the connections, the dialogue the viewer must remember from one season to the next etc. that makes us love to discuss and theorize about.

Random thoughts:

Since season one Sayid has tried unsuccessfully to walk away from his troubled past as an enforcer, torturer, killer. Even in his flashsideways, although he backs down several times and does not accept his brothers manipulations to help him… he still gets ‘kidnapped’ by Keamy and co. You can’t change your destiny. You can only change your preception of self.

By killing Keamy and company, Sayid saves Jin.

In the hospital, Jack crosses Sayid’s path in the corridor.

RIP Dogen. I will miss you. He was the only one of the Others that spoke the truth. He tells Jack about the poison pill, about Sayid and Claire’s ‘turn to the dark side’. Tells us about the duality of man, having both good and evil, and the scales needing balance. About how he got to the Island. Makes us understand that Jacob drives as hard a bargain as MIB. Confirms to us that MIB takes on the form of someone who is dead, and that we should not let him speak or it is too late.

Lennon confirmed that Dogen was the reason MIB could not come into the temple. When Lennon tells Sayid that by killing Dogen he lets MIB in … Sayid says ‘I know’. Clearly the ash only works if Dogen is alive.

However, the sonic fence in New Otherton also kept Smokey out. Was that also related to Dogen being alive??

Someone mentioned above that Dogen knew he would die at the pool with Sayid. I had the same impression.

Ben’s reaction to Sayid – Priceless !

Sayid’s realization that ‘it is too late for him’ – Sad and scary.

I am starting to come around to the idea that Jacob and MIB are two sides of the same coin. Both manipulate for their own ends and give choices, however, Jacob’s offers are tainted towards good and MIB’s are tainted towards evil. Ying and Yang – maybe.

I think that Widmore is coming to the Island. Claire tells Kate : he is coming and you can’t stop him. Could have double meaning – MIB and Widmore.

Why Widmore? Because Jacob lied to Hurley to get Jacob out of the temple and into the lighthouse. Jacob knew Jack would destroy the mirrors and therefore hinder (and not assist) in bringing whoever to the Island. Widmore helps Locke in this mission to bring the Oceanic 6 back to the island … did he know about MIB’s loophole? That Ben would kill Locke and he would return to the island and be ‘claimed’? Maybe that is too convoluted.

Well, if it is not Widmore, it has to be Desmond, to whom the rules don’t apply.

Sorry – I rambled on. In any event, I love the season so far and I will miss you LOST.

@yann and camille i like your thought about egg. i definitely think it’s a reference to the question “which came first, the chicken or the egg?” as in, would sayid be a killer had he not had a brother. given the fact that this season seems to be all about the “what if” scenarios, i think it was definitely intentional.

and also, i believe the emphasis on poached eggs has some significance. not as a style for cooking, but in the sense of poaching as illegally hunting and trapping wild plants or animals.

on the island, UnLocke is “the poacher” and, per wikipedia, “only wild animals can be poached” (ie: sayid).

I have many more comment to bring for this episode. Will return later. Sadly none will be aired on the podcast but maybe can bring some good discussion.

With that said, I wish people would stop hating these characters and trusting in the writers to have purpose for everyone’s storylines.

ANND…finally (if anyone is still reading this after all rambling), what if Sayid wants Shannon back…not Nadiya? She IS on the island afterall.

We have seen smokey since the first episode, and always wondered what it was, and now we are told that it is a man (or once was a man). I am now wondering how long has MIB been smokey?

Why was smokey just this strange mysterious smoke monster that liked to roaming around the island in the first 5 seasons, to now being an important character to the show?

Why could Ben seem to have control over smokey at one time (remember when Ben summoned the monster to go after Keamy and his men), and now smokey seems to be free to do what he wants? Is this only because Jacob is dead?

@ Patty – cool take on Kate’s expression seeing Smokey overhead

@ Victor – You have a point about Dogen, that I wondered too – What exactly did Dogen do/have that kept Smokey out? Maybe as the “Mixer” of the Ash it’s power dies with the “Mixer”? Ilana having scooped Jacob’s ash from the fire may be his successor?

@ Yann – Maybe only the Leaders got the “Lists” and the “rules”. Richard is beginning to look like just chief of security of the Leader and his scared demeanor means he doesn’t know his purpose anymore?

I was also wondering about Dogen’s time on the Island. If his son died at age 10 and in the flash side ways looks about 13 does that place Dogen only 3 or 6 years on the Island? I wonder if how long he was really on the Island will prove significant at all? Did Ben know Dogen and if so how well?

Yann–a reference to “The Prisoner” perhaps?

*
On another note, I was watching something the other day and someone got out of a taxi and the sound of the taxi meter printing out the receipt sounded just like Smokey. Could Smokey include some sort of old accounting device?
*
One more thing, so many of our flash sideways include someone pulling up to a house in a car or a cab. Mean anything? Ah, who knows?

@Zachsmind
“Now is the winter of our discontent…” –Richard III. Pure evil does exist.

@DesmondsPen @Robert B @Steve
Way to see the light.

@Russ M
Excellent points. Why doesn’t smokey just hurl ballistas of stones and trees over the temple walls?

@Kira
You’re exactly right. Think “The Monkey’s Paw.” Talk about something creepy.

Bon voyage to Ryan, btw. Good luck “on assignment in Canada!”

The other problem is that Sayid’s flash sideways was definitely different. Nadia was not married to Sayid’s brother with children in the original story.

I am pretty sure Jacob is going to stay dead and the series will end with a 815′er taking his place.

Keep in mind this is the only the second time Kate has even seen the smoke monster up close. The look on her face easily could have been “holy s***”.

Speaking of the smoke monster, did everyone just give up on defending the temple? What happened to the ash barriers? Seems like if their survival depended on Dogan, they should have maybe protected him a little better.

I believe other lines were put in solely to comment on the larger chain of events as well. For instance, what was the point of dramatizing Sayid’s exchange with the cab driver? It’s completely irrelevant to the plot. The scene did provide these lines though: “The meter doesn’t stop running until you get out” and “Keep the change.” I compare the meter to the running of time and this relates to a whole host of double entendres such as Faraday’s “I can make time.” and the allusion to “A Brief History of Time.” Then, in this episode, Ben says “There’s still time” to which Sayid answers “Not for me.” Is this Flocke’s true agenda, to end time?

And “Keep the change?” All previous actors in the flash sideways have resolved their issues and changed for the better. But not the innate killer, Sayid.

Flocke’s offer to Sayid reminded me of Satan’s temptation of Christ as he wandered for 40 days in the wilderness. He offered the whole world to Sayid if he would only bow in subservience. However, Flocke pulled the classic Perry Mason/Devil & Daniel Webster maneuver. He didn’t actually promise to restore Nadia to Sayid. He only said ” What if I told you….” His word is his bond, definitely one of the cardinal rules, but he doesn’t have to deliver what he doesn’t truly promise.

The symbol of the door made another appearance. In almost every episode this season, we’ve seen a door with some kind of warning on it. In “Sundown” when Sayid was at the hospital, he went through a door that read “Keep this door closed.” At some point, opening the door (to the sideways dimension or the magic box) will become the pivotal crisis.

Finally, I do love my quasi-scientific crackpot theories. Obviously, the reason Sayid failed to kill Flocke was that he allowed him to speak. I believe this has to do with sound waves. These waves allow smokey to project his web of illusion, kind of like a siren song. It’s also why we don’t trust electronics. He uses the same ability to project voices over the intercom or send messages via the swan computer.

Now more than ever,
Defend the island.

And the point of the flash-sideways showing Sayid is a dark character no matter the reality was DELICIOUS.

So far we’ve seen that Jack would be a good father, Hugo is lucky, Kate is still on the run (though might be innocent), Sayid is still a killer, and Locke still ends up in a wheel chair (though I’m thinking his father didn’t put him there). We also got to see that Dogen had a son, and that without the island’s influence the kid wouldn’t have gotten almost killed. It’ll be interesting to see what we learn about Sun and Jin later on.

It also shows that our dear Losties have intertwined fates even outside of the island. Goes along with J.J.’s parallel timelines, a la Star Trek. Things may be different but some core things stay the same.

When the smoke monster was coming down that corridor Kate had no choice but to hang on to the edge of Claire’s pit. I thought it was stunning that Kate was stuck. Kate had no way out. Smoke Monster was above her and Creepy Claire was below her. Creepy Claire had said that she would kill Kate. We don’t see what heppend in the pit after Smoke Monster clears out. Was there a confrontation between Claire & Kate? How did Claire get out of the pit? We don’t see what happens.

We do see Kate walking zombie-like out of the temple. She picks up a rifle. Kate wonders over to the Unlocke crowd. We don’t see what happens in the pit.. we only see the effect of it from Kate. I assumed that when Kate was in the pit– she became “infected” from Claire. Kate doesn’t seem to have any reaction to Unlocke. Kate seems like she is in a trance.

We don’t know when the name Linus was scratched off the list-could’ve been when Ben ‘died’ as a teen and became ineligible or it could even be his dad, Roger. Seems to me like there are a lot of doubles, as someone said. Shepard could mean Jack, or Christian or now even David, Linus, Ben or Roger, Kwon could be either. Argh, that’s confusing..

I think it may end with new people on the Island as it’s ‘protectors’ and Sawyer and Jack are good guesses.

The look Flocke gave Kate was one of amusement, I thought. Not cool for anyone..

What are they telling us???

I love this show. So engaging and thought provoking

It’s a little like WWII, allies vs axis. The allies were fighting the good side, but used many awful methods to achieve that purpose.

I think that the island represents something benevolent, but can be misused by those whose intentions are otherwise. That the island is sunk represents the draw of the tic-tac-toe/War Games reference.

Why didn’t Flocke just ask Claire to sweep away some of the ash on the ground so that he can then proceed into the Temple?

Also, if Flock can actually move objects, why doesn’t he just manipulate island foliage to accomplish the same?

Maybe Flocke isn’t as smart we think.

It seems that Kate’s character lacks dynamics these days outside of any “love triangle” storyline. I wonder if she will be one of the first to get eliminated.

The whole smokemoster = Flocke transformation seems over done, and gimmicky. Perhaps many are just lost in the whole closure of its mystery, but I still feel that the writers took a short cut in writing in an explanation for Smokey that results in a something so shallow as MIB being able to take on human form. Seems like another “writer’s corner” to me.

The next Episode should really start gelling things together, otherwise the S6 may run the risk of becoming another S2.5-3 writer’s block material.

We need more of the old school Lost and less storylines and additional questins.

Dogen told Sayid that the person would appear as some one who was dead. I’m pretty sure Sayid learned about Locke’s death at some point. So he saw someone he knew was dead and knew it was the person Dogen told him about.

After reading all of the above posts, some very good points have been made. I am espically interested in ppls thoughts as to who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. Love the part about perspectives, I think that is very interesting.

But this episode tonight, I am so convinced that Locke is the devil, just can’t get past that. I also agree that Jacob does do harm but it’s more of a Guardian role, like in Guardian Angle.

So I am back to this…. It’s a game for control, not necessarily for the players, but possible release from the island. The island is the garden of Eden, and it has 2 captians, both who want to win, who were sent to protect the island and are tired of playing for so very long. Each plays quite differntly from the other, one who tries to cheat and the other tries to play somewhat fair. The worst case senario whould be a tie, with no clear winner, hense the island is sent to a watery grave.

I think I have a headache too now.

Sandy

it was good that Kate told her story to BLAIRE at a distance.

Jin in the freezer? What does he have to do with anything? Maybe he was up to some gangster stuff and it went wrong.

Both have strengths and both have wildcards. Jin/Sawyer/Kate are major wildcards. I don’t think any of the three have been claimed and all could chose either side. Win Sun still in the picture, surely Jin will join team Jacob. And the team Jacob you still have Ben. Who knows what will happen with next week, but can we really belive Ben Linus will ultimately be a hero?

Also I do think this serious will end with the return of season 1′s Dr. Jack who will lead his people and be the hero.

Another thing is, the whole odd theory how the Old Testament God is wrathful and the New Testament is forgiving is incredibly inaccurate. The God of the Old Testament is still a God of grace and love. There are two themes that God has always had: Grace and Judgement. Point to any story from the Old or New Testament and they contain both. Being a theology teacher I am tempted to write 100 pages on this, but instead I will just say that this could not be further from the truth.

Second Thought:
I love Creepy Clair!! And now Sayid?? That was interesting.
I’m thinking the CLAIMED are both going to set on a mission to kill the other candidates since FLocke can’t kill them ( I think the boy he run into the Jungle mean that MIB couldn’t kill any of the candidates) and that Jack (since he has a VERY IMPORTANT task to do) will save/heal them all.

I am honestly not comfortable with the flash sideways, I feel it is such a waste of time. But I guess that in the end it will all make sense. I hope so.

Please please reunite Jin & Sun. Give the woman some happiness please, she’s becoming the new Michael: “WAAAAAAAAAAALT”

Of course, we’re thinking Nadia; but Shannon also died in his arms as well.

This really dominated my thoughts since watching the episode. Only this morning was I am to start wondering why so many people on the Island have to get other people to kill for them. Dogan wants Jack to kill Sayid. Lock gets Sawyer to kill his father. Smokey gets Ben to kill Jacob. Perhaps this is related to the still unclear ‘rules’, but it is a theme we were hammered with last night. Why is it so important? I have the sense certain people are trying to remain pristine or at least not crossing certain line by not killing.

I’m still stuck on the two timelines. I’ve been waiting for them to converge or cross over and now believe this is unlikely. I’m not beginning to think they are out of sequence. One or the other is a flash back/forward. Perhaps the off Island reality happens after what we are seeing now or vice versa.

Awesome Episode, Loved the action balanced with quieter plot points.

The Boomerang metaphor was perfect for Lost – you throw it out there and it returns, though not exactly in the same spot and there are consequences. I swear Sayid said, “we had an incident” but I’ll have to rewatch to be sure. Excellent little story point.

Sayid’s story reminded me of “The History of Violence” and I found him very believable as a man who wanted to be good but kept doing bad for the wrong reasons. Locke’s offer to give him what he wanted most was similar to his approach to all his recruits (especially Sawyer). It was a great counterpoint to the on off Island world where he felt unworthy of what he wanted most (Nadia).

Was there a temple wall symbol on Nadia’s necklace?

Proof that the forward cabin slips my mind when I am watching the show because seeing Jin was a surprise! I am sure that his inability to speak English will be very important in his story line and I can’t wait. (Here I’ll confess that it is very strange that Jin would be sent to LA with the watch/money and have no English skills – unless the point was for the father to get him killed)

Can’t wait until next week and all the great comments from You ALL Everybody!

I’m inclined to agree with you that the flash sideways eps are what actually happens if the MIB wins and he reunites the people he has promised – Sayid and Nadia, Claire and Aaron and even Dogen and his son assuming that with the death of Jacob and the ultimate triumph of MIB that the “deals” Jacob made are overturned. The question becomes – what happens if Jacob wins and MIB doesn’t get off the island? Do the few survivors live out their live on the island?

Interesting show but not my favorite. Think it was the weakest of the season so far.

I was SO sad to see Dogan go. I just loved that character and he was so short lived–although he drowned in that temple spring so I suppose he could get up and walk out in a couple hours. I loved that we got a little more backstory on him and how he got to the island. He wasn’t some samurai warrior. He was a businssman who killed his own son in a dui after celebrating a promotion. I didn’t see that one coming!

I have to say, though, I am continuing to be ambivalent about the flash-sideways. I know there has GOT to be something that will tie in with our primary island story-line or they wouldn’t be wasting the last few episodes of Lost just for the sake of showing us how they would have turned out had the incident never happened and the plane never crashed. But sometimes I feel like it is exactly that and I find myself wanting to get away from Sayed trying to get his brother out of the bad loan shark deal and Jack watching his son play piano, and go back to the island and see what is happening there. I’m trying to have faith that there is a reason for all that.

Even the second life line was so predictable. Everybody turns there to their better me. So Said does not want to help with the mob, but righteously does it when there is no other option. Please, c’mon…

And the great scene of killing MiB! Immediately I thought: he cannot kill him. What would be the rest about?

I was extremely disappointed and surprised that they can afford such an empty episode when there is some much to explain. Well, I cannot have Christmas everyday…

We finally get the full-on, no-holds-barred battle between Sayid and a worthy opponent. We get Smokie going to battle. We get that wonderfully creepy “Catch a Falling Star” sequence at the end. I thought the flash-sideways worked.

At this point, I’m just accepting that we won’t get satisfying answers to all of our questions, and I don’t mind, so long as we get narrative closure. Maybe the Island has just been a battleground between two supernatural creatures that we can never fully understand, and that’s all we’re going to figure out.

So long as they deliver episodes as they’ve done so far this season, I don’t mind.

I was just getting to like Dogen and Lennon – Dogen, while purposely ambiguous, was, for his short tenure on the show, THE SOURCE for answers from Jacob’s perspective.

As the smoke monster attacked and Miles ran around the temple, I was thinking “I wonder where Sun and Lapidus are?”, only to get my answer moments later. It really sucks to see Kate off with Team Flocke, but I think it will be the ultimate tragedy for Jack to see his one, true love on the opposite side of the line when the dust settles. If that ends up the case, the idea that Jack and Kate are Adam & Eve, since their original placement was apart from one another in the cave, is completely plausible.

Claire, sitting on the ground in the hole, warning that “He’s coming and you can’t stop him.” gave me the chills. And Sayid, embracing his destiny, his fate, as a killer was as heartbreaking as it was satisfying. Clearly, the writers have drawn a line in the sand, and I’m sure that in the next few episodes we’ll see where each character will lie.

The Flash Sideways was GREAT. Seeing Sayid embrace the dark side in both parts of the story, gave the idea of fate being unavoidable a sort of gravitas, and I can’t wait to see where the Lost writing team is taking this. I think it’s going to be a great ride….

I loved Sayid and Ben tonight too! And we were right that Miles knew Sayid was really dead for TWO hours!

In Backgammon, if you land on someone when their piece is all alone, you send them to “the island” in the center of the board. If they roll the right number, they can pop back out at the beginning again if there’s room, and they continue down a path based on a dice roll – or luck. There’s only one end, everything else is just progress. Each time your piece goes through, it takes a slightly different path, but still ends up being wiped off the board or getting stomped and resetting again.

Poor Desmond gets stomped over and over and over again.

So, I see the show ending with a bang. Everyone goes, but all their paths are complete. However, expect there to still be a single white piece or dark piece remaining.

Of course there are black and white parallels as well. Then the fact that there is safety in numbers.

I’m trying to decipher how the “rules” apply.

My only question left is what does MIB have to do now to finish the game and declare victory now that Jacob is…dead-ish?

I think Dogen didn’t kill Sayid because he saw the baseball and thought of his son. Jacob’s rules could be what stopped him from offing Sayid.

I loved how Ben interacted with Sayid. It was like he finally smelled the bad vibe and tiptoed away from the pool in a Ben-like fashion.

Brian said:
‘ ‘ When Jacob “recruited” Ilana to help him, she was in a body cast. I wonder, apparently after an accident. Is this similar to Dogen’s son. Did Jacob make a deal to heal her if she would go to the Island? Just a thought.’ ‘

Very interesting thought. Both men act like politicians, luring the flock into their sides by offering tempting deals.

People have been saying Unlocke is bad because he unnecessarily killed the ppl inside the temple. I think he had to because he had deliver on his promises. If he hadn’t he would not be trustworthy to his followers. Sayid delivered the message/promise and Unlocke came to act on it.

So let’s look at how the pawns are now laid down:

Lapidus, Sun, Ilana, Miles, and possibly Ben are together out of the temple and safe from Unlocke.

Jack and Hurley are together somewhere near the lighthouse. We may possibly see them somewhere in the jungle next time.

Kate is with Unlocke’s team. She may act as the insider who will end up escaping the group and informing the others about their plan. Potential Kate VS Claire dialogue/things about Unlocke that Claire will tell Kate.

Jin is alone but may either find and join Sun and the others, or Jack and Hurley. I think it’s going to be the latter because I feel it’s still early for a Jin/Sun reunion (sorry guys).

Richard could appear anytime and in any episode. I don’t think he’s going to appear in the next episode.

Right now, there is only one person that is confident enough of what he/she is doing and are NOT Unlocke: Ilana. She clearly had a specific goal in mind when guiding Sun and the rest inside the temple and through that passageway. I think Jacob’s ashes will be put to use as early as in the next episode.

I noticed that Nadia did not have scars on her arms from being tortured.

I agree with ZachsMind: In a war, each side thinks they are the good guys and their opponents are the bad guys. It is all a matter of perspective. I think we are beginning to see that Jacob and MIB are very similar. Both manipulate by making miraculous promises to ordinary mortals who are at their most vulnerable. If weighed in the moral balance, Jacob may tip more toward “good” and MIB more toward “evil”, but they seem to be more alike than different.

I think Flocke was PLEASANTLY surprised to see Kate following Claire: she is a potential recruit. With Aaron to bargain with, she may be easily won over.

Ben: has he been recruited by Smokie yet? I don’t think so. I think both sides used him to their advantage without ever really “claiming” him for either side.

Lots of thoughts but for now want to comment on Dogen’s speech explaining good vs. Bad people: It gives me the impression that maybe MIB & Jacob made bets over the people on the walls of the cave & lighthouse as to which side they would fall on…and maybe the candidates sort of count for points and the random people just don’t matter in their game. The scales currently showed they were tied as always; but when Jacob was killed it simply didn’t matter any longer what the score was and thus the ‘inside joke’. MIB is simply tired of playing after so long and now he’s trying to stop Jacob from being able to re-animate himself so that he can go home… Or something.

I agree. There’s definitely something there when they cut to Kate on the third shot of that sequence. Can’t tell what it is until I see a replay in HD.

@ Mark P.
The black and white motif has been present from the very beginning. Backgammon anyone? Dont plan on it going away. It is the basis for the entire story.

No. Not nice. Jacob does play dirty, does do harm. Flocke is one pissed off dude and he probably has a reason. Doesn’t make him good, no, but our Losties are caught up in something with rather major ramifications, which we have suspected for some time, and saw evidence of tonight. Smoky hasn’t had such a field day since he whupped up on Keemy’s platoon. (Interesting, no?)

As for moral ambiguity, I’m all for it. But I do not think that will be the overall arc. Subtext, yes, but we are caught in a good and evil yarn, an epic one, with moral ambiguity as subtext. And I’m loving it. Season 6, outside of that lame ‘What Kate Does’ has been all I was hoping, and that was a lot.

Unless Sayid can’t die, just like flocke? I mean, he can feel pain (unlike flocke), like when he was tortured by Dogen. But the whole schpeel about Sayid having to take the medicine willingly (so if they forced it down, he won’t die from it)? The Others are not anti-killing, so the fact that they don’t kill Sayid is unexplanable to me.