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“Sayid is faced with a difficult decision, and Claire sends a warning to the temple inhabitants.” Instead of our regular blog post, this week we posted a “Shortwave Transmission” initial reactions podcast, as Ryan will soon be off the island. We include some calls from the LOSTLine, as well as the latest track from The Others LOST Band. We’re hoping “You All Everybody” can keep the conversation going on the blog. What did you think of “Sundown”? We’d love your comments below!
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@Rich from Cleveland – Ha I’d forgotten about the taxi driver thing, really really good points. I was also thinking about Keamy (who I love!) and the eggs (which they really spent time on) and how eggs might represent birth/rebirth but flash sideways Sayid (though “reborn”on the island) seems to be the same person consumed with hate and murder that he always ends up being. His chances for rebirth gone, swallowed up by Keamy with a bullet in his head.
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On another note, I was watching something the other day and someone got out of a taxi and the sound of the taxi meter printing out the receipt sounded just like Smokey. Could Smokey include some sort of old accounting device?
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One more thing, so many of our flash sideways include someone pulling up to a house in a car or a cab. Mean anything? Ah, who knows?
“Catch a Falling Star” is the song that was playing on the mobile in the crib in the season 2 episode “Maternity Leave”. It is also the song that Christian sang to Claire when she was a baby, based on “Raised by Another” from season 1. Creepy!
Jacob & Hurley in the cab. The theft of Jin’s panda bear by the cab. Kate drives off in a cab after her trial. Kate and Claire hijack one this season. Ben pulls up to Widmore’s flat in a cab.
Yann–a reference to “The Prisoner” perhaps?
@ Richard,, thanks, I think those dissatisfied with the episode may find more layers like these when rewatching.
@ Patty – cool take on Kate’s expression seeing Smokey overhead
@ Victor – You have a point about Dogen, that I wondered too – What exactly did Dogen do/have that kept Smokey out? Maybe as the “Mixer” of the Ash it’s power dies with the “Mixer”? Ilana having scooped Jacob’s ash from the fire may be his successor?
@ Yann – Maybe only the Leaders got the “Lists” and the “rules”. Richard is beginning to look like just chief of security of the Leader and his scared demeanor means he doesn’t know his purpose anymore?
I was also wondering about Dogen’s time on the Island. If his son died at age 10 and in the flash side ways looks about 13 does that place Dogen only 3 or 6 years on the Island? I wonder if how long he was really on the Island will prove significant at all? Did Ben know Dogen and if so how well?
While watching Smokey kill everyone he wanted in the temple, I started to think more about Smokey. Here is a few questions about smokey.
We have seen smokey since the first episode, and always wondered what it was, and now we are told that it is a man (or once was a man). I am now wondering how long has MIB been smokey?
Why was smokey just this strange mysterious smoke monster that liked to roaming around the island in the first 5 seasons, to now being an important character to the show?
Why could Ben seem to have control over smokey at one time (remember when Ben summoned the monster to go after Keamy and his men), and now smokey seems to be free to do what he wants? Is this only because Jacob is dead?
I am one of the Kate fans (and a Kate-Jack fan)…and I think most people don’t like her because she totally messed with Jack throughout the whole show, and even though men don’t want to admit it, they deep down relate to Jack and his fear of failure. But that is why I love both of those characters….Kate speaks to the girls who are afraid to trust in anything that seems good (b/c they fear they will get hurt or have been hurt before), and Jack represents those men who want so badly to fulfill the role of great man, husband, father, friend, leader, professional, etc….but is plagued with fear of not being good enough. Hopefully, the redemption from these fears will draw them together in the end. 🙂 And I guess Sawyer can get his coffee with Juliette in LA.
With that said, I wish people would stop hating these characters and trusting in the writers to have purpose for everyone’s storylines.
ANND…finally (if anyone is still reading this after all rambling), what if Sayid wants Shannon back…not Nadiya? She IS on the island afterall.
@carol from boston i like your idea about the purge, but can’t we also assume that the order came from MIB posing as Jacob in the cabin?
Pillars of the Island: Has anyone found it interesting that the strongest people on the island that cannot be killed by the Man in Black are being, instead, killed by players in the game through “elemental forces”? Jacob is killed by fire, and Dogan is killed by water… who will be Air and Earth then? The only other pillar I can think of is Richard Alpert and the Man in Black…
I have many more comment to bring for this episode. Will return later. Sadly none will be aired on the podcast but maybe can bring some good discussion.
@Russell: the purge came as a result from faulty leadership from Charles Witmore who was in charge of “The Hostiles” during that time. It was only until Alex turned three that Ben Linus banished Witmore from the island.
and another thing, why didn’t kate just tell claire that aaron was with claire’s mother? that would’ve made sense to me.
@yann and camille i like your thought about egg. i definitely think it’s a reference to the question “which came first, the chicken or the egg?” as in, would sayid be a killer had he not had a brother. given the fact that this season seems to be all about the “what if” scenarios, i think it was definitely intentional.
and also, i believe the emphasis on poached eggs has some significance. not as a style for cooking, but in the sense of poaching as illegally hunting and trapping wild plants or animals.
on the island, UnLocke is “the poacher” and, per wikipedia, “only wild animals can be poached” (ie: sayid).
Did anyone else catch the specific instructions Dogan gave Sayid about stabbing Unlocke? He said it would be too late if he let him speak. Cut to Sayid seeing Unlocke in the jungle, who says, “Hello, Sayid.” Then– stab! I am wondering if that is a clue as to why it didn’t work. Sayid later says to Dogan he did exactly what he told him… but that’s not really true. Right?
If I were running a show like this where people clamored for answers instead of just watching the show unfold as intended, I’d mislead them as well. I’d say that there wasn’t timetravel and then have time travel. I’d say that a goofy dog that they liked lives then I’d kill it. I’d say that there wasn’t a spaceship or aliens when there surely were.
Great episode … really great.
For those of you who think we are not getting anywhere, I say please rewatch. The wonderful thing with LOST, which has always been there since season one and which I believe the majority of the fans really enjoyed and found spectacularly different from the rest of the fare in TVland is that LOST writers DO NOT dumb down and spoon feed its audience. It is precisely the subtleness of the connections, the dialogue the viewer must remember from one season to the next etc. that makes us love to discuss and theorize about.
Random thoughts:
Since season one Sayid has tried unsuccessfully to walk away from his troubled past as an enforcer, torturer, killer. Even in his flashsideways, although he backs down several times and does not accept his brothers manipulations to help him… he still gets ‘kidnapped’ by Keamy and co. You can’t change your destiny. You can only change your preception of self.
By killing Keamy and company, Sayid saves Jin.
In the hospital, Jack crosses Sayid’s path in the corridor.
RIP Dogen. I will miss you. He was the only one of the Others that spoke the truth. He tells Jack about the poison pill, about Sayid and Claire’s ‘turn to the dark side’. Tells us about the duality of man, having both good and evil, and the scales needing balance. About how he got to the Island. Makes us understand that Jacob drives as hard a bargain as MIB. Confirms to us that MIB takes on the form of someone who is dead, and that we should not let him speak or it is too late.
Lennon confirmed that Dogen was the reason MIB could not come into the temple. When Lennon tells Sayid that by killing Dogen he lets MIB in … Sayid says ‘I know’. Clearly the ash only works if Dogen is alive.
However, the sonic fence in New Otherton also kept Smokey out. Was that also related to Dogen being alive??
Someone mentioned above that Dogen knew he would die at the pool with Sayid. I had the same impression.
Ben’s reaction to Sayid – Priceless !
Sayid’s realization that ‘it is too late for him’ – Sad and scary.
I am starting to come around to the idea that Jacob and MIB are two sides of the same coin. Both manipulate for their own ends and give choices, however, Jacob’s offers are tainted towards good and MIB’s are tainted towards evil. Ying and Yang – maybe.
I think that Widmore is coming to the Island. Claire tells Kate : he is coming and you can’t stop him. Could have double meaning – MIB and Widmore.
Why Widmore? Because Jacob lied to Hurley to get Jacob out of the temple and into the lighthouse. Jacob knew Jack would destroy the mirrors and therefore hinder (and not assist) in bringing whoever to the Island. Widmore helps Locke in this mission to bring the Oceanic 6 back to the island … did he know about MIB’s loophole? That Ben would kill Locke and he would return to the island and be ‘claimed’? Maybe that is too convoluted.
Well, if it is not Widmore, it has to be Desmond, to whom the rules don’t apply.
Sorry – I rambled on. In any event, I love the season so far and I will miss you LOST.
I wonder if there’s a parallel between Sayid’s attempted/failed killings of Ben and Unlocke.
Wow, lots of comments, but…
I watched again, and Claire didn’t say, “send someone he won’t kill”, she said “send someone YOU WANT killed.”
interesting.
it just took me 6 hours to listen to the podcast and read through every SINGLE comment. great observations, people.. i live for these post-episode analyses!
love the concepts presented to us; the scene between Keamy and Sayid was classic. i ate poached eggs&toast in honor of the epic return of kevin durand. great point, @coolpeace, that by killing keamy&co. in the sideways reality, sayid saved jin.
wanna see where kate fits in, she’s seeming a little “lost” lately.
where the hell is sawyer? last we saw, he was in the wilderness with unlocke, no? i hope he has a swerve in store for the dark side..
jacob had to have known jack would go apeshit and smash the mirrors, but what does that mean for the future of the island? could the mirrors have been in some way linked to the images presented by smoke monster?
can’t wait to rewatch this ep.!
@Coolpeace
Thank you for bringing up the sonic fence. See my comments above about how smokey might use sound waves.
I still think that the difference between MIB and Jacob isn’t a matter of Good vs. Evil. I think it’s a difference of ideology.
Perhaps something like Man of Faith vs. Man of Science?
Think about it — that difference has what has always kept Jack and Locke at odds throughout the entire series. Locke is already the MIB — and they’re looking for a replacement for Jacob. And Jack is currently in search of what he believes.
Anyway, that’s my crackpot theory.
Jacob & Smokey Scale Theory:
Dogan says to Sayid in this ep that
“For every man there is a scale, On one side there is good. On the other side evil”
In the cave we see a scale with a black rock and white rock on it. Smokey trows the white rock out and says it is a private joke.
My theory is that Jacob & Smokey were one child, and for some reason split into to beings. One who represented the “good” side and the other the “evil.” So Smokey could not kill himself aka Jacob so someone touched by Jacob had to do it. Sayid could not kill Smokey because he was not pure but infected. However I do think someone like Jack (or Hurley) could stab and kill Smokey.
I was just rewatching the episode instead of doing homework, and I noticed that when Dogan says the line about the scales, when he says “good,” he holds up an empty hand. When he holds up “evil” it is a hand with some sort of black hand grip on it. I just love how intricate every aspect of this show is!
How did MIB (and Sawyer if he is out) CAME OUT OF THE CAVE? The ladder is broken! They should have been trapped!
@melonpool good point. how crazy would it be to see jack and locke, who’ve been battling since the beginning, fight it out in the end. i definitely see locke now representing science (loopholes, formulas, imbalanced equations, finite solutions) and we’ve already seen jack moving in the direction of a believer ever since 316.
it makes poetic sense that the show would end on a final battle between these two as upside-down versions (alice in wonderland) of themselves.
@ Rich – you said about sound waves:
“Finally, I do love my quasi-scientific crackpot theories. Obviously, the reason Sayid failed to kill Flocke was that he allowed him to speak. I believe this has to do with sound waves. These waves allow smokey to project his web of illusion, kind of like a siren song. It’s also why we don’t trust electronics. He uses the same ability to project voices over the intercom or send messages via the swan computer.”
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If you say that the sound waves allow smokey to project a web of illusion – how then would sound waves prohibit him from trepassing or protect against him? I am not sure I understand.
Can you elaborate?
@ Yann : good point about Sawyer being trapped in the cave. Maybe that is where he still is. Of course, MIB can travel out from there as Smokey.
banyan trees also stop the monster
@ Daniel : interestingly the Banyan tree in Hindu mythology symbolizes eternal life.
Maybe these trees afford protection to those who lie within them. Maybe it is one of the rules?
What if… Jacob caused Rachel’s cancer so that the she had to have chemotherapy and her reproductive system to be messed up. The Juliet would try to fix her. she was fixed but not by Juliet but rather by Jacob. as a result of her being fixed Mittelos Bioscience would then be sent by Jacob to get Juliet . Juliet would then think that she really is “that good” and accept to go to the island even though she is not responsible for the fixing of Rachel. then when Rachel supposedly get cancer again, Jacob gives it to her and makes Juliet stay on the island because he would fix Rachel. All this was done by Jacob not because Juliet could solve the fertility problem but because she is a candidate (or at least was at the time).
I think that the same thing happened to Dogen. Jacob somehow caused the accident and told Dogen that his kid will live if Dogen came to the island. Dogen, like Juliet, could not say no so they agreed. Jacob also wanted Dogen because he was a candidate too.
Jacob would do anything to get his candidates to the island and keep them there until they either die (not the right candidate) or become the new protector. Sometimes you could just Guide someone to the island by touching them, other times you just have to convince them by giving them a choice knowing already what they would chose.
I have known that this whole war is coming thing would be happening. I have known that it’s going to be tough going in season 6 for our losties. But, now that it’s happening, I am so sad.
My Sayid! After trying so hard to conquer his past, he goes all crazy and lets the the smoke monster kill everyone in the Temple?
I know that there are sometimes unhappy endings, but I am not looking forward to this one. I want our Losties to be the heroes and save the day, all of them.
Hey guys,
Just two things really. A few have mentioned seeing something in the Smoke, and I did too, but no idea what it was. After replaying it (sadly download quality so no point in pausing) but as whatever it is passes over Kate, there is definetly a scream to go along with it.
Secondly, and I think I’m the only one, at least from what I’ve seen, to comment on this, but the final LOST credit (“anddd thud”), I noticed instantly this looked different this week. It was so bright, a brilliant white colour. I loaded up ep 3 and compared, and it was a regular grey. Surely this has some kind of significance, as clearly they don’t recreate the logo every week, so this has to be deliberate. This could be just me, but I don’t think so!
Excellent episode this week, finally one that both on island and off activities have kept me entertained and glued to the screen!
Cheers guys,
Mark
A few things…
For me, this seemed like the darkest episode of Lost’s 6 seasons. Sad to see Sayid turn to the dark side, joining Claire in the Satanic Possession Club. Hopefully, he’ll be redeemed somewhere along the way. But wow, drowning Bruce Lee and slitting Lennon’s throat…really weighty, scary stuff. And Claire is looking like something out of a horror novel.
I think we can stop with the idea that MIB is actually a good guy (or that Jacob is the bad guy). Claire and Sayid are under an EVIL spell, courtesy of MIB…we’ve never seen Jacob do anything even remotely like that. Quite on the contrary, Jacob has alluded to man’s free will to choose between right or wrong. Also, MIB/Smokie is the one going around KILLING people, not Jacob. C’mon, Ryan and Jen, say it with me…MIB is BAD BAD BAD.
I think. 🙂
It was great to see the Keamy character again….what a GREAT bad guy. Great actor, really brought a lot to that small role. I thought for sure we were going to see another great fight scene between him and Sayid, but no, Sayid pulls an Indiana Jones and shoots him. And then we have Jin in the freezer…what’s THAT all about?
Back on the island, where was Sawyer? Jin?
@Yann RE: Locke leaving Cave
I still believe the cave has a back door and the ladder was a test of Sawyer by MIB.
But I like Coolpeaces idea that MIB can leave easily in Smokey form (I was just thinking that moments before reading your post)
I also wanted to say Claire seemed more believable this episode.
Ok, a final observation : re the last scene with MIB looking at Kate.
But first a thought about Kate’s reaction when she came out of the temple. Kate was going after Claire and when she came out of the door she notices Locke – and that was why she looked bewildered, as far as she was concerned Locke was dead. This was her first encounter with ressurected Locke.
Now, as for MIB’s reaction to Kate coming out and “joining” his team, I believe he was annoyed that she was there and he had not calculated her being with him… maybe he feels she will be a foil to his plan… maybe he can’t kill her because she is a candidate… maybe he doesn’t know she is a candidate (she was no on the cave wall).
In any event, I think MIB was unsure what to make of Kate’s presence. Which will be interesting to see how it will work out.
and @ Bonita : I agree that this week Claire seemed less crazy… at least when speaking with MIB before going in to the temple. In fact, she seemed almost unsure with her “friend”. Like she was doubting him and his ability to deliver her Baby. Can she be turned by Kate???
Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you for all the intelligent analysis
A particular shout-out to Rich in Cleveland and coolpeace — your comments consistently resonate with me…
Thank-you to lostinla for your sensible remark above — I always feel so alone being a Kate fan and wanting a worthy ending for her
“The Transmission” is the best!!!
I think that when Smokey flew over the pit that Claire was in with Kate hanging on, he flashed whatever it is we saw (I can’t make out what it was myself) on purpose. I think he wanted to try to brainwash Kate in joining his team. The look on UnLocke’s face at the end of the ep is the look of a surprised MIB – he was surprised that Kate took the bait. Crazy thought, but I’m sticking with it for now.
Can someone please tell me what makes a candidate? For me, this is one of my most important questions I would like answered. I mean, a lot of people have “daddy” issues (I noticed a lot of people refer to this in the past) – so this can’t be it. I just can’t put my finger on how candidates are selected. Why Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Kwon (notice, I didn’t mention which per the number sequence on the lighthouse wheel and cave) and so on and so forth?
defintely the zombie season!
http://www.profilesinhistory.com./lost-auction-preview/lost-auction-preview
I know this doesn’t have anything to do with the latest episode, but if you want a break from theorizing, you could check this out. If you are like me, all you can do is dream about owning a piece of Lost history…I could never even afford to bid.
@ Coolpeace
Interference? Waves of differing wavelengths will block each other out. White noise to repel the black smoke. Check out “A Brief History of Time” for a more accurate explanation.
Just pointing out a minor error in this podcast. You say that miles name wasn’t on the wall, but according to lostpedia, “straume” is on the wall. Which is his last name.
Kate is being setup to be the new Jacob. How do I know? The writers have kept us guessing by being completely unpredictable. Kate, as the new Jacob, without a candidate number, is the perfect ending of a wild ride.
Btw.. Ben and Locke are half-brothers by the same mother.
Given the writer’s ability to manipulate viewers like me, anything is possible with the outcome of this show. But if I had to wager which side I thought was good or evil, I’d have to go with Jacob being good and MIB being evil for a couple of reasons…
First off, a lot of what MIB has said to characters this season is very close to things attributed to Satan in classic literature. He promises answers to Alpert and Sawyer -much in the way Adam and Eve was promised knowledge. He tempts Sayid in this last episode with the thing he wants most, similar to Kazantakis’ take on temptation in “Last Temptation of Christ.”
Earlier this season, MIB notes all those who have followed Jacob without ever actually hearing or seeing him….much in the way the faithful of many denominations practice their faith in a supreme being.
The fact that few people outside of Hurley have actually seen or spoken to Jacob, leads one to ponder if the violence done in Jacob’s name is reflective of his true nature or not.
MIB, on the other hand, has been killing people ever since the pilot episode.
As for Jacob bringing people to the island, risking their lives and submitting them to tragedies and hardships along the way….well, spiritual figures from Buddha to Moses suffered similarly. Regardless of religiosity, could the writers be making the point that it is only through an epic hero’s journey that one attains goals for the greater good and ultimately achieves their greatest potential?
Think about it…MIB keeps asking people what THEY want as individuals. Jacob at the very least has summoned the LOSTies into a communal experience, with Jack’s mantra “Live together or die alone.” Until the true nature of the island is revealed, as well as the true nature of Jacob and MIB’s conflict, its anybody’s guess. But after SIX seasons, I would like to think there is an epic reason for everything these characters have endured.
Or maybe its all one of VIncent’s doggie dreams!
Kate name IS on the cave wall, Carlton said that in an interview… and it is crossed out!
“They Come, They Fight, They Destroy, They Corrupt.â€
It always ends the same! After tonight I think it could not be made any clearer!
Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, “biblical”?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes…
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together… mass hysteria!
We’ve been so focused on the ash keeping smokie at bay, it occurred to me that we never quite figured out how the Darma folks figured out that the sound fence would keep Smokie out of their compound? It was a massive system that needed to be well thought out and shipped to the isalnd piece by piece.
Seems like an amazing amount of trial and error would need to take place to have a system that would protect them long enough to build their whole operations on the island, unless they arrived with an immense amount of foreknowledge of the island and its properties, and the properties of the Smoke Monster. Remember, Radzinsky’s map had many of the “Cerebus Vents” mapped out.
It could not have been something that was thought of on the fly. They went to the island expecting hostility and they came prepared. Why?
So far, Season 6 has pretty much ignored the Darhma Initiative. We never found out what Radzinsky’s edits from the Swan film were and why they were made. I am fully confident that when DI get’s re-introduced to the story, it will be epic and jaw droppingly entertaining. Meh…maybe it will have to be fanfic written after the finale.
I was just wondering if the person coming to the island could be Aaron? I am still trying to piece in how he is going to be a neccessary part of the puzzle.
Can anyone answer a question for me?
Is there anything to the fact that people are never killed by getting hit or shot in the head other than it’s what they do on TV shows?
@Connie- thanks for the cool link of auction items. Like you, I would love to actually be able to win, but as you said, it’ll be expensive.
In the auction the note from Ben about sparing Juliet is interesting, still wondering all these years later why she had to be “marked” and why they did it? Seems very medieval.
@greenberry- you are not alone, I am a Kate fan too.
@Yann I am wondering what the actual fight in the end will be like since Smokey can wipe out everybody at one time if he wants to, what kind of battle will it be? What type of weapons? If he has killed all the temple others, who is left to battle with him? There are only about 10 or so people left on Jacob’s side. Right now we have Ben, Ilana, Jin, Jack, Hurley, Miles, Sun, Kate, Lapidus, and Richard. Everybody else “appears” to be with MIB. Though I dont’ believe for one second Sawyer is really with him.
Kate could be the key, both Jack and Sawyer will do anything to save her, including sacrificing themselves.
Maybe MIB needs all of Jacob’s followers to be gone before he can “win” and leave. If one is left standing does that mean he has lost?
MIB must be vulnerable in some way. Otherwise, he would have no reason to kill the supporters/protectors of Jacob. Why would someone that can’t be shot or stabbed worry about them?
Is Nadia the first person we’ve seen alive in a flash sideways after crossing paths with Jacob in the past? I always thought the scene with Jacob/Sayid looked more like Jacob causing Nadia’s death rather than saving Sayid’s life.
I believe the flash sideways are the Losties’ lives without Jacob ever ‘intervening’.
I still don’t know who’s good/who’s evil, but i do find it more and more intriguing that each week we see more evidence that the MIB is a man of his word. Even though Jacob preached that ‘free will’ bit, he’s the only one who manipulated people to get them where he wanted them.
I think we are going to find that NO ONE is what they seem.
@ Mark, after this episode, I have to agree with you. MIB is “evil incarnate”. I was parked where Jen was through the first few episodes but given that Sayid and Claire have gone to the dark side and they are on MIB’s side along with those zombish people, I have to believe that he is the dark and evil part of the balance.
Anyside Jack and Hurley are on, has to be the “light” side. The big question for me is the role that Kate (stuck on the wrong side) and Sawyer (missing in action) will play in helping bring down MIB in the war – and I think they will.
This is really exciting….loving the ride….