What do you think?

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/21/lost-terry-o%E2%80%99quinn-smoke-monster-man-in-black-season-smoke-and-unlocke-a-few-secrets-about-his-character/

also that when he put a line through locks name his number was 4 the first number on the list maybe Dark lock has to get all the numbers marked out before he can leave? a sort of heaven VS hell bingo

love the podcast love the sow love the feedback

And we spent a lot of time thinking that the game, or the good/evil struggle, was between Widmore and Ben. And with the whole freighter arc, it seems that Widmore is also able to bring people to the island. But they were clearly after Ben, not Jacob or MIB.

Not sure I even have a point, just that I’m finding it awfully hard to keep track of which side everyone is on, or what the ultimate goals are.

I love your podcast. Keep up the good work!

The other thing that makes my radar perk up is that MIB/Smokey = the black rock on the scale (supposedly) and the ship that is wrecked in the middle of the island is The Black Rock. Coincidence? Interesting, certainly.

So if Jacob had never been around to interfere with people’s lives,

- Sawyer would never have finished his letter, and may not have become obsessed with revenge. In fact, after warning Hugo to be wary of con artists, I’m wondering if he’s a cop, and if he caught Anthony Cooper some time before Locke met him, or some time after Locke met Helen, but before his obsession ruined their relationship.

- Kate would have been punished for stealing, leading to…I don’t know what.

(as an aside, while I’m writing this, I’m finding all sorts of holes in this idea.)

- Jack would never have gotten his candy bar.

- Jin would never have been amazed by Jacob’s excellent Korean.

- Ben would be happy, anal-retentive, and passive-aggressive.

My point is, though, that what we’re seeing in the parallel timeline is the result of the absence of Jacob’s influence. If none of the Oceanic 815ers ever came to the island, then they would never have traveled back in time to detonate Jughead which negated the results of the incident. Maybe that un-negated release of energy sunk the island. I dunno.

Perhaps the reason that Jacob egged Ben on in the season 5 finale (“What _about_ you?”), was his bid to truly establish free will in the world by taking advantage of the loophole that his nemesis discovered, and allowing himself to die, so there would no longer be an embodiment of destiny, and people would be allowed to think freely and make their own decisions.

I’m probably wrong, but tell me what you think.

On another note, Sawyer seemed particularly “special” in this episode–able to see through Flocke when others couldn’t and able to see the blonde, bloody boy too, even after it was established that Richard couldn’t. Casting back to earlier seasons: how is it possible that Anthony Cooper came to be on the island to see his son and face Sawyer? Was it really Cooper or was it Smoky in the form of Cooper, pushing Sawyer towards revenge and murder, just as he claims Jacob “pushed” our Losties toward the island?

Finally: a word on destiny. I thought this episode was a lesson in course correction. Locke’s destiny–the elements of his life that were “course corrected”–were telling. He was not destined to be abandoned and betrayed by his father, it seems. But he is destined to be denied his walkabout, to be in the chair (for whatever reason), and to not always be honest with the people in his life. Many fans seem to see a happier version of Locke here–so maybe affect is not destiny. But the wheelchair is.

He’s been so great. However…..

@ Soko @ Knives
“You’ve come so far. It would be a shame to turn back now.” It was almost preordained that he would go over to the dark side. Make no mistake, that’s the direction Jasper Alabama is headed.

Sometimes I concoct theories and then realize what I’m pulling together is just the effect of a bad prop or awful special effect.

For instance, when I saw the boy in the jungle, I immediately thought it was actually a YOUNG LOCKE.

Within minutes, I realized I thought that because the boy’s bad wig resembled the awful hair piece Terry O’Quinn had to wear in his ‘young-man John Locke’ flashbacks.

The second time we see the blonde kid Locke is surprised that Sawyer can see him. Lets talk about that. Hurley can see people that other people can’t. They’re either in his imagination, or they’re dead. Perhaps this is also true here. fake-Locke assumes this boy is a manifestation of the dead, but as soon as he finds out that Sawyer can see him he realises the kid is real – hence the chase.

“You know the rules, you can’t kill him”. Seems obvious that he’s talking about Sawyer here. Sawyer is a candidate, you can’t kill candidates. As I mentioned previously it seems that fake-Locke had to work pretty hard to get Ben to kill Locke (a candidate) so perhaps the kid is just reminding fake-Locke that he can’t simply do away with Sawyer himself.

I want to talk about something here, a series of books close to my heart. Written by a Russian author called Sergei Lukyanenko they follow the struggle between two sides – light and dark, who have sworn to uphold a balance between them. The members of these two sides are abnormal humans with certain abilities. Whenever a new person of this kind is “tapped” he is unaligned, somewhere between the two sides. Neither side is allowed to directly force the person to join, but instead can try to guide them to find their own path – select their own side.

This scene reminded me of the books. We’re talking about two sides, who have rules, and are portrayed as light and dark. Perhaps Jacob and Man In Black have spent all this time maintaining balance, influencing people to join their respective sides. Jacob kept bringing people to the island to try to tip the balance into his favour, but Man In Black thought the whole thing was a waste of time. He’s sick of it, he just wants to end it all. He’s playing dirty now, killing people. Perhaps this kid is just reminding fake-Locke that, if he wants to do something, the most he can do is influence Sawyer, not just kill him. Or maybe not.

As usual, I wrote a big blog post about this episode. People who don’t object to wall of text brain dumps (knives munroe? ) are more than welcome to click my name and have a read!

–
aaron from scotland

But really, I will come back and read all these comments.
But this MUST be mentioned.
One of the names in the cave is:

“TROUPE”
Plain to see.
Name ring any bells?
Gary Troupe? (‘Purgatory’ anagram)
Gary Troupe was the poor bloke that unfortunately got sucked into the engine in the Pilot.
Gary Troupe wrote a Screenplay (or a novel) that Sawyer and Hugo read (and almost finished on the island).
The story was called The Bad Twin (easau anyone?)
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Bad_twin
Well due to the list of names and numbers on the cave..Troupe was a candidate.
Read that link i posted.
If that doesn’t tell you that the writers have had this planned all along,nothing will.
The book Troupe wrote mentions Widmore family, Paik, Jacob and Easau, The Hanso Foundation, Cindy Chandler (stewardess/other), the numbers, dozens of Lost’s literary references… SERIOUSLY!!!
this novel/story/screenplay is the key of LOST
I wouldnt say it if I didnt 100% believe this.
In the story, you find out that the ‘bad twin’ wasn’t really bad at all…
Anyone just think of a concise theory.
Chew on this..

**I apologize if this was mentioned above, and if it wasn’t…”I CALLED IT”…**

-Knives from Texas!!

I have no doubt that Smock (MIB) is playing Sawyer. And I am also certain that Sawyer will not be an easy mark. After all you can’t con a con man.

Also, as I mentioned above I am almost sure that the cave in which we saw the numbers and names was MIB’s. He couldn’t help himself from crossing out Locke’s name, since he will not be able to help him ‘go home’.

Where or what is ‘home’ for MIB? The temple … maybe, maybe there is something yet to be revealed. He obviously needs the help of others. Ilana seems to know, she says he is recruiting. Does he need more than one? He couldn’t convince Alpert, so he went after Sawyer.

Why did MIB seem taken aback when he saw the young boy? Did he not expect to be confronted by him? Is the boy the rulemaker? The score keeper? Is he above MIB and Jacob in the hierachy of the Island? Who did the boy mean when he told MIB that he could not kill him? Alpert, Sawyer or was he referring the Jacob?

Also, if as we saw in conversation between Widmore and Ben in the hotel room… they also have rules – are they the same rules, are they in the same game?

MIB saying to Sawyer that the Island is just an island that does not need protection – I think is part of his con. Clearly, something happens to the Island in the flash sideways, it is under water.

Well, that it for now.

1) The greater context – I believe that Damon Lindlehoff and J.J. Abrams (Carleton Cuse joined after seaon 1 had already started) have set out to create their own mythological story. It has been their intention all along to create a unique story which has, as Tolkien described, “applicability”. Rather than being purely allegorical in structure, the story contains more broad, sweeping themes which can be found in a variety of culture, literature, religion and philosophy. Because of this intent, and the skill with which they have crafted their story, many people can “read into” (apply to) the story other themes with which they are familiar. This makes the story resonate with such a broad band of our culture.

2) The grand theme – the story at it’s heart is a morality tale. Thus all the imagery of black/white, good/bad.

3) Some specifics – the most important episode to date (up through episode 4 of season 6) has been the season 5 finale, “The Incident”. The conversation between Jacob and the Man in Black (Anti-Jacob/AJ) revealed immense amounts of information. It was after this episode that I became convinced that AJ was also the Smoke Monster, and was evil. Significant information – “You have no idea what I’ve gone through” – speaking to Jacob, in reference to finding a loophole to the rules which state that AJ could not kill Jacob.

However, I believe Jacob is not only good, but also more powerful and wiser than AJ. He has the ability to leave the island when necessary. He has realized for a long time that he needed to bring certain people to the island to help him defeat AJ. Thus his encounters with a young Kate and a young Sawyer. These encounters correspond roughly in time with AJ’s first interaction with a young Ben Linus (appearing to him as his mother).

AJ is a consumate liar and manipulator. I do not trust anything he says. The cave may or may not be Jacob’s. The identification of the 6 passengers may or may not be Jacob’s writing. AJ is attempting to convince someone else to help him so he can leave the island – my theory is that he cannot leave unless he is willingly accompanied/led by someone else.

4) Ben Linus – he is the most tragic character in the story. For decades he has been manipulated by AJ (again, reference the “You have no idea what I’ve gone through” line). AJ found a young, impressionable boy and convinced him that he (AJ) was actually Jacob, or working for Jacob. I suspect that the cabin had been used to hold AJ, and Ben was manipulated by AJ’s manifestation as Ben’s mother to break the ash circle and set AJ free from his smal imprisonment.

Ben will die an heroic death, significantly involved in the defeat of AJ (however that is portrayed – death, recapture). Even now we see that he is on the path of repentance, and he is already scheming to turn the tables on AJ. He will use his manipulative skills, which he has learned from AJ, to lead AJ to his own defeat. And we will be emotionally moved at Ben’s death. Think in terms of Darth Vader or Boromir from the Fellowship of the Ring (deceived, but finally repentant and redeemed to some degree by their final acts of valor).

5) Jacob’s loophole – Kate haters are going to hate this, but I believe there is great significance in the fact that the name “Austen” was NOT written on the cave walls. Jacob has personally touched Kate – she will be his loophole against AJ, a character of which AJ has taken no notice.

6) Aaron – AJ fears this boy. He tricked Claire into leaving him behind in the jungle. I believe it was he who conjured up Kate’s dream of Claire when she emphatically told Kate “Don’t you dare bring him back!” Is the young boy we saw on the island Aaron? I don’t know. But I do believe Aaron will come back to the island, and play an important role in the defeat of AJ.

7) Richard Alpert – I don’t know what to make of him. He seems to be easily fooled, by both Ben and AJ (as Locke). Ben has been manipulating him for years, at AJ’s command.

Story particulars – the numbers, who’s Sayid, was there a sickness, alternate timelines, etc. These are all fascinating story telling devices, and extremely clever. Kudos to the creative writing team led by Lindlehoff and Cuse. But these really aren’t as vastly important to the story as we believe; they’re just an interesting means of developing the morality tale.

I’d have much more to say, but I really do have a life. Nevertheless, this is one of the most intelligently written TV series in history. Lindlehoff and Cuse have the type of notoriety that very few TV writers have ever achieved (Rod Serling is the only one who comes to mind in comparison).

A scene that I’ve kept thinking about since watching the episode is when Sawyer offers Man In Locke a drink. Man In Locke doesn’t drink it of course but he is obviously curious about the alcohol. He even goes so far as to taste the little bit off his finger when the shot glass spills.

Now, whatever Man In Locke is, I’m guessing he doesn’t need food or drink to survive but we have seen him eat a mango on the beach….so that would suggest he can’t partake in alcoholic beverages or maybe he just didn’t want to drink out of fear of clouding his decision making during this recruiting visit…..or maybe it just wasn’t his brand.

Anyway, I just thought the level of curiosity he had about the drink was interesting. Also, does Sawyer having a few shots of whiskey in him maybe contribute to him being able to see the kid a few scenes later.

My crackpot theory of the week is: Adam and Eve equal Jacob and Man In Locke.
They’ve been so deliberate in hiding Man In Locke’s name, and plenty of people have suggested that this deity or whatever it is can or has taken Claire’s form. What if the Man In Locke we saw in the series five finale was just another claimed body. Obviously, the writers want the name kept a secret for as long as possible, just what if, we not only end up being shocked by the name as well as the gender.

I know in scenes from last week with Sawyer, Man In Locke says “I was a man, once.”but Jacob and Man In Locke don’t seem to be the type of people to differentiate much between male and female….they seem to see things in terms like good vs evil, mankind vs a higher power, etc. It simply could of meant he was part of mankind once and not necessarily male.

Plus, if Jacob and Man In Locke equal Adam and Eve, the fact those two skeletons were found with stones makes a little more sense.

This crackpot theory also plays along with my theory that the show is going to continue to portray our Losties being forced to choose sides. But in the end, they will all choose neither Jacob or Man In Locke. The group is just stubborn enough to realize that neither is as good or bad as they think they are, and each of the their idea’s about free will isn’t exactly free will.

Of course, everything I’ve just said could be proven 100 percent wrong before the first commercial break of the next episode.

But that’s the beauty of this show. The discussion and debate that this show generates is amazing. I will miss that aspect just as much as the hour spent watching the show, when it’s all over in May.

Keep up the great work, Ryan and Jen and all of you great people who post such interesting, thought-provoking comments on this show week after week

Regarding the young boy
Why couldnt Smocke change into smokey for chasing him ?
Can we rule out a young Charly Hume ?

Concerning the box company Locke worked for,
anyone remember Locke discussing this with Hugo on Island ?

I reviewed a few segments on HD super slowmo
I dont believe that the poster behind the interviewer has Kate and Desmond on it. They look alike, but I doubt its them
Ryan ? can you confirm
I am pretty sure to have seen Kwon written in two places
I think I saw Radzinsky crossed on there (but could not see a number)

It struck me that the people outside the foot could have waited for Ilana and Ben to come back before heading to the temple (if they are so important)
Speaking of Ilana Could it be that she was having a face (identity) change in Russia ? Who was she previously?

It seems everyones life in LA in 2004 is much different from what it has been
Has Ben been on the Island ?
If Cooper is not a con man, could it be that Sawyers parents are ok and that he never became a con man himself ? Then his advice to Hurley on the plane was genuine.

Somehow most of these people are crossing each others path
some in more meaningful ways than others
Could it be that we will realize that even if their lives are different they will wind up together (on island ?)

Looking back on all the seasons now, it seems that Locke and the smoke monster have always had a complex web of connections to each other, different than all the other characters’ relationships with Smokey.

All this time, I believe Ben “thought” he was doing Jacob’s work, but it was really the MiB’s. The way Ben always referred to character’s by their last names (just like on the cave ceiling) makes me think the lists and instructions came from MiB disguised as Jacob. The cave dwelling belongs to MiB — it is NOT characteristic of Jacob’s tastes.

And another thing I noticed… I think they changed the “flashbacks sound”.. I don’t know if is just me, but I’m hearing it different.. maybe it has something to do with changing realities between the island and off the island. And the sound in previous seasons was different because the flashbacks were transitions in time…. I hope you guys talk about this in the podcast.

What I loved about this episode was when Flocke threw the white stone in the ocean. It illustrated how the island is no longer in balance- that darkness now has control. And I’m betting on that NOT being a good thing

I know it’s tempting to think that the concept of Darkness and Light here is just a ruse (i.e., MIB is the good one/Jacob is the bad one)- but in this case, in light of all evidence yet presented, I believe it is to be taken at face value.

Everything we know about about Smoky/MIB/Un-Locke clearly paints an, uh, individual (for lack of a better term, since we don’t know exactly what he is) who not only cloaks himself in darkness (dark clothes, dark smoke) but who also has a dark heart. Consider how brutal he is when he’s in smoke monster form – not just doing what he needs to do to kill whomever is being killed, but seeming to go out of his way to make it as horrific as possible. Also remember how mocking he was of (the real) John Locke’s last thoughts. These are not the thoughts and actions of “good”. In my observation, it is the MIB who is deceptive and manipulative and a pretender – though he credits Jacob with those traits. What he says – to anyone, at any time – must be taken with a huge grain of salt. He isn’t to be trusted.

Jacob, on the other hand, again, based on the evidence we’ve been given so far, is an entity who is at least (at this point) neutral, and at best, good.

Just my $.02. Can’t wait to see how it all plays out in the end.

since i’m from the school that believes no scene in a LOST episode is irrelevant, i started thinking about the brief moment where off-island locke is seen coaching the young girls basketball squad. as a basketball player myself, i am all-too familiar with the exhausting drills they were doing, where you run back and forth from baseline to baseline: they’re called suicides.

coincidence? i think not.

And even if he intends to leave his friends stranded on the island, that is still not as bad as having them killed. Man-in-Locke hasn’t actually asked Sawyer to kill anyone nor has he indicated that anyone would be killed if Sawyer helped him.

A running theme of the show is the long-con and now two longest con-men of the show are together playing off each other. The other con men was Ben and Man-In-Locke already conned Ben. I doubt Sawyer will be so easy to con.

That may certainly be plausible-nice thought!. Or it could be that it has always been Flocke’s catchphrase and Locke’s just been Flocke for longer than we ever thought. I doubt it goes back that far though. The writers did really seem to want to stress it though, with him repeating it a separate time. Interesting…

One thing I noticed that got me thinking – after the boy had told MIB that he couldnt kill “him”… whoever that is… MIB yelled out Lockes famous “dont tell me what I cant do!”. Now, this is classic Locke, it doesnt sound like MIB. Do you think that Locke is still in there somewhere? Up to now, MIB has said that he has just taken Johns body, and everything he has done has been very un-Locke like… until that line.

It just got me thinking that maybe John isnt completely gone. Maybe he is in there somewhere fighting against this dark power and trying to get out. Maybe this is part of the good/evil thing going on, maybe John can take over from inside and kick MIB out of him?

Sounds crazy, but just thought.

I’ve only read through about half the comments so far, so forgive me if any of my random thoughts to follow have been mentioned – as surely they have…

My theory (and I don’t think it’s toooo crackpot, for once) is that Flocke, in his previous life as a human, was captain of the Black Rock. Richard was a slave as has been discussed based on the chain thing from the premiere.

And it was cool to see the numbers again.

Maybe I’m just getting sucked in to the dark side (mwahahaha) but I’m still not convinced that Flocke is evil. He could be an incredible liar and manipulator, and as dangerous as Alpert believes him to be, but on the other hand he seemed so vulnerable in this episode.

Then again, I think Alpert must know a lot about Flocke’s beginnings, so maybe we can trust his take on things. Ugh, I don’t know. That’s LOST for ya

At any rate, that was some incredible acting by Nestor Carbonell (Alpert) – I thought he was fabulous in this episode.

Someone mentioned Jacob’s ladder – brilliant!

The boy in the jungle scene was weird – at first he was running for his life away from Flocke, then just stopped. I’m assuming there was an ash line that we didn’t see (at least I didn’t see it) but what else could have separated them like that? I like the idea that the kid is young Jacob. He seemed to have some kind of power/authority.

@Bill and Russell – was Ben unknowingly working for MIB? I always thought he took Locke to the cabin because he knew Jacob wasn’t there but that something freaky would happen. Or did Ben not know about the statue foot lair? Interesting.

Can’t wait for your podcast Ryan and Jen!

@bill yes, ben was definitely working for MIB, but he thought it was jacob. remember, he was going to the shack to get his orders, but jacob hadn’t been in the shack for a long time. interesting thoughts on the cave (Plato’s cave?) being MIB’s abode. i like the notion by @Sobaika and other posters who pointed out the connection to jacob’s ladder. as for the names, i still think of it like a game. jacob selected his pieces, and in his efforts to win, MIB would then try to “capture” those pieces. whenever he captured (killed) a piece, he crossed out the name.

@rich in cleveland i agree with you that the boy locke grabbed was meant to represent — or more appropriately, be a “substitute” for — walt.

we know the LOST writers like to play with words. so i woke up thinking about the title of the latest episode: The Substitute.

indeed, it speaks to off-island Locke’s new job at the school, but i think it also reflects the larger idea. think about it. a substitute teacher is someone who “fills in” when a teacher is missing. they take over the teaching responsibilities and maintain the order in the classroom. if a teacher is absent and there is no substitute, the students, in theory, would have no structure, no direction and be, dare i say, lost. this idea relates to the grander story on the island and this concept of a candidate, a substitute who must take over in jacob’s absence.

literally, the “lost children” motif goes all the way back to season one. but i think this show is illustrating that all the losties (and mankind as a whole) are children in a sense, a group that needs guidance, a people who play games and have a hard time staying “inside the lines,” as locke said to hurley. with MIB convinced that the island doesn’t need protecting, the fact that he was haunted by a vision of a young boy, whoever it may be, underscores this theory that children need attention. especially the ones who are “special” such as walt and aaron.

@Steven in Bath
The off-island story line was all about character development reminiscent of season 1 and I thought it was the most effective yet at illustrating the deviation in the alternate timeline (Locke has given up his dreams OR Locke becomes an adult and begins to cope if you want to look at the other side of the coin.) I don’t think we’ve realized the full depth of the numbers yet. I’ll be mad if the arbitrary assignment to candidates’ names is all we get. Finally, the teacher’s lounge scene was meant to suggest Walt, but not be him. We’ve seen the repetition of many different character types (the Portugese guy in the arctic looked like Jack, the cameraman for the arrow orientation looked like Sawyer, Juliet was chosen because she looked like Sarah, etc) I can only guess at what this means. That there are imitations on the loose, but only one genuine article? That this is a near miss version of the one right way that things are supposed to happen?

@Carol
I’m not sure if it’s happened yet with just a declaration of support, but once Sawyer accepts Esau’s offering, there will be no turning back. Everyone loves Sawyer, but be prepared to have your hearts broken. Darlton are just that diabolical.

STL-Serving the Light.

I believe the cave with the last names belongs to MiB and not Jacob. Jacob’s living quarters at the foot of the statue was neat, warm, well-lit, and adorned with his woven art. The cave was dark, chilly, etc. The names also gives me reason to believe Ben works for MiB (and he doesn’t even know it). In early Ben episodes, he always referred to characters by their LAST names. Examples: Austen, Shepard, Ford, Jarrah, etc.

Not sure why Faraday was crying while watching images of the sunken Flight 815. Sunken aircraft — sunken (X flash sideways) island?

mattingly was the name of us one of the us soilders that came to the island in the 50′s. We see someone wearing a uniform with that name.

I like your idea that Locke stopping that black kid for directions is a reference to Walt. You’re absolutely right, they could just as well have had Locke roll right into the teacher’s lounge. They’d then have had more time for something else. They’ve always emphasized how precious every second of screen time is to them.

I think this is the end of the mystery of the numbers. Now we can identify the mystery that lies beneath it, that Jacob has the power to manipulate events as readily as we manipulate tools to effect mechanical events, as readily as you might put a tea bag in water to produce tea.

But I have to watch this episode a second, third time this weekend, perhaps my point of view changes.

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/a2345b4fcdf15b38093004655585186f

@ Steven- I thought the same thing about the scene with Locke and the kid. There is a lot that goes into a small scene like that, so why have it?

@Brat – I noticed Mattingly as well. Carlton is a huge Red Sox Fan, did you see Yaz on there? lol

Re: the Egyptian Gods, if they were once human, that explains MIB saying he wasa man once.

When we saw smokey’s POV Tuesday, it was cool seeing the smokey reflection in Sawyer’s window, and if you looked closely you could see it was a light grey smoke not dark black. Two smokeys?

1. http://img697.imageshack.us/i/lighthousek.jpg/
This is a pic from the garbage of a church in LA. The next episode and especially the LIGHTHOUSE station has to do with eloise hawking.

2. http://img9.imageshack.us/i/questionsi.jpg/
Just remember what the employee in the temp agent kept asking Locke. These are the questions for the interview of joining the Dharma Initiative.

I think that the purpose of the scene where he asks where the teachers’ lounge is was simply to emphasize the reveal of Ben as a teacher and Locke’s newness as a substitute. I highly doubt that the kid will ever come in to play again.

Overall this episode got me very excited about what’s to come!

I don’t think the kid will be Aaron. I can’t see why it would be apart from the fact that we all know him as a character on the show. This child seems perhaps another step removed from Jacob and MiB, perhaps the next and final opening up of the show to the ultimate higher power. Walt perhaps might have been an interesting choice. There’s something going on about children here that will tie in MiB’s vision and the taking of children on the island. I’m sure it will make sense once it’s explained (fingers crossed on that and every other one).

Speaking of Walt, why does Locke, in alternate reality, ask a kid where the teacher’s lounge is? In other words, why was it written? It serves no point to the narrative and means that the writers had to pay someone to speak that line. With this in mind, at first glance I thought perhaps he had grabbed Walt (as played by a new, younger actor), but if that’s the case, they didn’t find an actor with a great likeness. The hair is all wrong. But the whole scene felt pointless and we know everything happens for a reason (particularly this late in the game). It seems odd.

The next one was that I finally got to see Jacob’s ladder. Jacob’s Ladder is a ladder to heaven, described in the Book of Genesis (28:11–19), which the biblical patriarch Jacob envisions during his flight from his brother Esau. As part of the story, souls climb the ladder to heaven and fall to their doom. Good thing Sawyer was able to hang on.

The last symbolism that jumped out to me was one of the names that was crossed off the wall was Mattingly. This is an obvious shout out to Damien Lindelof, who seems to be an avid Yankee’s fan. The Red Sox and Yankee rivalry seems to be carried out with the writers of Lost.

And when I saw the name of Kwon on the rock wall, it could also be Sun and Jin’s kid. Just a thought. Love the show.

- Tedman Cheung
Los Angeles

Hurley won the lottery, but the numbers were lucky (if the island doesn’t exist, did he use the numbers?), so he never went to Australia to find the numbers’ origin. Locke has a good relationship with his dad (Helen talks about inviting him to the wedding), so he never gets his kidney stolen (therefore he never got thrown out the window, how did he get paralyzed?). Desmond gets married, so he never went on the boat race around the world (so he never met Jack at the stadium, but Jack recognized him). Also, if I remember right, the people who were going to adopt Claire’s baby never existed, but were fabricated to get her to go on the plane, yet in reality 2 they exist, so that could also fit in with the trend.

i don’t remember his reason for crying ever being fully explained, but what if this was a hint of the multiple timeline concept that we’re seeing in season six? what if, in another timeline, faraday was on board flight 815 and died in the crash? he doesn’t know why he’s sad, but his tears seem to suggest that he feels something familiar inside. a deja vu, perhaps, an emotional bleed over similar to what we’ve seen when kate picked up that stuffed whale in “what kate does.”

or was his reason for crying fully explained and i missed it?

part 1 – no-suicide clause

last week, we found out that sayid might be “claimed” or “infected”. these buzzwords might seem to come out of nowhere, but i think we’ve seen others that have been claimed throughout the seasons. to be claimed by that darkness, i believe, means a remnant of the smoke monster now exists inside you. it’s not the main MIB, but one of his pawns.

you still with me?

so other than sayid, we now know that claire has been “claimed”. other characters that i believe have been claimed include locke and michael. i believe locke was first claimed when he saw that “white light.” he was not the full embodiment of MIB until his dead body came back to the island, but he was claimed early on. this explains why his behavior seemed so erratic. like chess, MIB “captured” jacob’s piece.

michael was claimed some time between losing walt and his own death. it was obvious when he returned to the camp in season three that something was not right, and i think it was more than an obsession for finding his lost son. at some point in the jungle, he had an “interaction” much like locke.

i believe part of the rules of being claimed states that you cannot kill yourself. michael tried to shoot himself in season four, but the gun failed. locke tried to kill himself by hanging, but ben talked him out of it. as pawns in a never-ending game, they can be killed, but they cannot kill themselves.

dogen knows this. that’s why i believe he wanted sayid to willingly take the poison pill on his own. if sayid took the fatal pill and lived, that would prove that he was indeed claimed.

part 2 – an agent on the inside

why do we automatically assume that the jacob who visited hurley in the season six premiere was actually jacob? we know MIB can impersonate dead people. with jacob dead, he would be able to do the same to jacob, right?

key giveaway: he told jin to go to the hole where montand lost his arm. how would he know that? jacob wasn’t there. but smokey was. i believe MIB manipulated hurley to bring sayid to the temple. he knew the water would be murky and that they would use it to try and heal him. however, MIB also knew the immersion would allow sayid to be “claimed” and with sayid, he would have an agent on the inside. (see what i did there?)

part 3 – a game

it’s all a game. jacob and MIB are the players, and the losties are the pieces. the characters on jacob’s list represent his white pieces. the characters that have been claimed represent MIB’s black pieces. but it’s less black and white than who’s good and who’s evil. jacob makes a move. MIB makes a countermove. and they’ve been playing this game with different generations of pieces for all eternity. in killing the opposing player, MIB thinks he won the game. but no game means no island which means no crash, which brings us to our LAX timeline, where miracles seem hard to come by and destiny is nowhere to be found.

website- http://www.egyptianmyths.net/akh.htm

I know that a lot of people speculate this is a God vs. Satan issue. I think it has more to do with Greek mythology. I have done some online research re: KA and Akh and those seem more appropriate in this case. I googled egyptian mythology and found this:

The kings of ancient Egypt were an integral part of religion. They formed a bridge over the chasm dividing the people and the gods. In pre-dynastic times the kings were considered to be gods. In later times, around the third dynasty, the kings became “transformed into” gods. This was a crucial part of the governing of the people. The heirs to the throne were not kept out of public display. At a young age they were known to many, and were known as children, not future gods. A king may have had many heirs and may not have known who would assume the throne until a much later time. In order for the people , (and the future king), to accept the transformation, certain procedures had to be worked out. This dilemma was beautifully solved by the ritual that merged the king with the god. Belief was that all future kings had two aspects of his being, his physical being and his “ka.” The ka was his spiritual counterpart that was part of the king at birth and remained with him throughout his life. Before assuming the throne a ritual was performed that united the king’s ka and his person. The king and his priests would enter a temple, perform the ritual, and emerge as a god. All of the people would wait outside to witness the miracle of the transformation when the king re-emerged from the temple. In this way was the new king accepted as a god and his word was accepted as law.

Website – http://www.touregypt.net/gods1.htm

Any Egyptian Mythology experts here to verify this?

Man, I love this flippin’ show.

That Randy Nations is such a DOUCHE.

So Kate is not among the numbers on the cave ceiling. I was surprised that Locke was #4. Locke is also not on Jacob’s list from the season 2 finale, and not on the list Jacob gives Hurley. She and Aaron are the O6 missing from the ceiling, while Locke and Sawyer are those not in the O6 that are on the ceiling. Coincidentally, or maybe not, they’re (or their bodies are) the two people in the cave.

Do we have any reason to think the Man in Black *isn’t* lying and manipulating, a la Ben Linus, and as he accuses Jacob of? I don’t know what to believe any more, but it seems like the more someone goes Queen Gertrude and asserts their pure convictions, the more F.O.S. they are…

Much more should be made of MIBLocke claiming he’s human. It seems so gratuitous if it’s not true. Is his claim to be human going to make Sawyer cooperate? In the Previously On Lost, Sawyer is recapped and emphasized saying to Kate, “I didn’t want to be alone”, and MIBLocke I bet knows this and offers companionship to Sawyer, culminating in the final thud. Sawyer already has said, “What are you” and MIBLocke does not respond to Sawyer as he did to Ben, “I’m a who, not a what”. He works with him and upon him.

Compare the frames when the smoke monster POV enters the barracks (about 4:22, without commercials) with when MIBLocke enters with the camera following over his left shoulder (about 10:39, after Illana’s “He’s recruiting”). The shots were taken at almost precisely the same height and pass through the same forward movements. Smokey POV was taken perhaps 20 minutes closer to the sun’s zenith, judging from the shorter shadows. Why does Smokey check out Sawyer, but then return to pick up a machete and retrieve Richard? Why are we shown the motions and proximal intent of Smokey? I think the narrative is taking pains to emphasize in this way that Smokey and MIBLocke are the same. Did we need the emphasis, no, but with it, I’m reverberating with the fact that the game has changed.

The question the narrative wants to and has to resolve, then, is how did human MIB come to be MIB/Smokey? And so, perhaps, MIB is not the equal of Jacob, if we can rely upon him that while Jacob wants to protect the island, MIBLocke wants nothing of that. Rather, he wants to leave.

The transitions between scenes in this episode are great. Almost every one had me going. I didn’t want any scene to stop when it did. The storytelling tension was great.

Ben’s epitaph for Locke was moving. “I’m very sorry I murdered him.” Regret doesn’t rectify his act, but it’s not nothing.

I was also very moved by Locke and Helen when Locke admits his failed hope and Helen confirms her commitment to him despite it.

By the time I got to the final scene, whew, where had the 45 minutes gone? I don’t think the writers ever have the characters lie to us. They have them lie to one another regularly, but to the viewers, they mislead or misdirect with partial truths and incorrect emphasis and implications. When MIBLocke says you and me, Sawyer, we’ll get off this island together, I think he should be believed that he means what he says. It might result in a fate worse than death for a naive and vulnerable Sawyer, but that’s our fun, to see how the narrative develops and ends, and, in truth, MIBLocke did not promise Sawyer or us a happy end.

One thing that remains a note of falsehood in him is his claim the island is but an island. Clearly it is not a mere island, but, perhaps it is true that it doesn’t need his or anyone’s protections.

I believe MIBLocke that Jacob had the incredible power to leverage such a small thing as a touch into an avalanche of events that brings his chosen people to fulfill his desires. Do you like that in a person? I can live with it. I manipulate my kids and my wife to the best of my ability to help them realize their potential and to thus achieve the greatest good for them. I regret when I fail to do this. I expect and desire no less from my wife towards me.

Yet, who wants to be manipulated by a selfish or malevolent custodian? No one should delude himself that he has complete liberty and freedom of will, but equally, no one should imagine that he cannot achieve his potential, realize his nature and be. Until I know Jacob for who he is and no other and can make a proper choice for or against him, I’d rather he keep himself off me, thank you very much.

Harold Claimed By Darkness

Example of my obsessing:
Google St. Catherine (that’s our Kate) and you will see she is often pictured with a large wheel (Hello, the mechanism that moves the island). According to legend, St. Catherine was a martyr put to death by a “breaking wheel” which was a medievil torture device. Well, when Catherine touched the wheel, it broke, splitting in half, so she was beheaded instead.

This episode definitely marks the first descent on this final season’s rollercoaster ride. Sawyer fully recognizes that Flocke is trying to con him. He, of course, feels he has nothing to lose at this point and wants to see where this might be going (not unlike the audience of show.)

Interesting that Locke’s body has a second funeral service. The first had no attendees in L.A. and no one eulogized him. This time Ben touchingly gives expresses his impressions of the man and admits he killed him.

Just a casual thoughts–Locke used Sawyer to kill Anthony Cooper on the Black Rock. Flocke used Ben to “kill” Jacob. And Flocke is leading Sawyer somewhere.. Sawyer and Ben, in this way, have also been substitutes.

And if Claire and Straume are not dead, then what are other ways that one can be crossed off as a potential candidates?

Although luck plays an important role, there is a large scope for strategy. With each roll of the dice players must choose from numerous options for moving their checkers and anticipate possible counter-moves by the opponent. Players may raise the stakes during the game. There is an established repertoire of common tactics and occurrences

Backgammon is one of the hardest to master. While you can learn the basic rules in just a few minutes, it takes many years of practice and study to become a real expert…

hmmm…

@LReene
Tying your comment into my previous post, I think that if the boy turns out to be an Island manifestation of young Jacob, the blood could be in reference to MiB killing (or attempting to kill) Jacob, since the MiB dealt the final blow as opposed to Ben.

@Rich in Cleveland
Your posts examining symbolism and deeper meaning of the actions and objects in the episode are phenomenal, well done.

4 – Locke (John)
8 – Reyes (Hurley)
10 – Mattingley – Other
15 – Ford (James)
16 – Jarrah (Sayid)
20 – Rous (Possibly Rousseau)
23 – Shephard (Jack)
31 – Rutherford (Shannon)
42 – Kwon (Jin or Sun)
49 – Cha (Possibly Chang)
56 – Burke – (Juliet)
64 – Goodspeed (Ethan Horace Olivia or Amy)
70 – Faraday (Daniel)
73 – Costa – ?
90 – Troupe – ?
115 – Bargas – ?
117 – Linus (Ben, Roger)
119 – Almeida – ?
142 – Lewis (Charlotte)
171 – Straume (Miles)
195 – Pace (Charlie)
222 – O’Toole – U.S. Military
233 – Jones – U.S. Military
226 – Carlyle
291 – Domingo – U.S. Military
313 – Littleton (Claire or Aaron)
317 – Cunningham – U.S. Military
321 – Fernandez (Nikki?)
337 – Martin (Karl) – Other
346 – Grant – U.S. Military

Wouldn’t it be wild if we learn, in a future X sideflash story, that Ben is married to Tom Friendly?

So I guess I’m thinking there’s nothing behind the numbers at all and using the numbers we’ve come to know, 4,8,15,16,23,42, was nothing more than fan fodder. Just an interesting way to showcase the numbers again.

Did anyone else notice that when UnLocke fell, chasing the boy, the camera started with a shot of the boys foot and then panned up his body…the same way one might have seen the statue on the island before it was destroyed. I wonder if there was a reason for this?

I do not think Sawyer is really taken in by MIB, they are both conning each other.
May the best con man win

Love the podcast.

Maybe the numbers being typed into the computer in the hatch over and over again was a way of summoning our heros. The fact that they kept it up after the crash is just that nobody bothered to tell Desmond to stop. Jacob does seem a bit capricious at times!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flocke

AND ITS A POLAR BEAR

Although unrelated in terms of spoken content, the “you can’t kill him” bit, took me back to the Season 3 Eko / Yemi apparition scene where the entity posed as Yemi quips something along the lines of “You speak to me as if I were your brother”. If only to serve as a reminder that there is probably far more behind what appears as the boy.

The thing is, we already know that it’s the MIB that killed a lot of those names.

The boy said “you can’t kill him.” I agree that if the boy was Jacob, he should have said me. What does this mean? If the boy is Jacob, is he saying that MIB can’t kill Richard? Sawyer? Maybe MIB isn’t allowed to kill people from the list, because if we remember he had the opportunity to at least kill Locke and Jack in season 1.

All our main friend were suposedly not on the list throught S1 and S2. Why are they now? Or was the purpose of those lists to separate the supporting people from the main players? I think those lists came from Richard, so I would assume that their source was actually Jacob and not whoever wsa in the cabin.

Didn’t Rose live in New York? I guess whatever didn’t happen (cuz no incident) led her to seek a warmer climate – remember she met Bernard when stuck in the snow. Moot point….

And finally, @Dave – if I remember right Jacob touched Sayid on a clothed shoulder so there wouldn’t have been skin to skin contact there either.

Candidates? This is an eternal struggle and there appears to be job burnout. The next Jacob and MIB could be Sawyer and Sun.

This episode was packed with information. Was refreshing after last week’s.

How do you envision this battle/war playing out? How will it be fought? Surely it will be something far more than a gun fight at the Alamo (read: Temple). We are not going to see, perhaps, Jack, Hurley, and Sayid yelling a battle cry as they lead their side to clash swords LoTR style against the other side with Jin, Sawyer, FLocke, right?

All kidding aside, once sides have been chosen, how will this epic duel be played out?

So…..Does Jacob speak through Sawyer the child about the rules or is Sawyer more important to this then we ever would have though?

Ryan-cool pics of Lost at your office. You must have been thrilled! I would have been.

Jon Fischer-Yikes! I hope we don’t find out that it’s just game play from the mind of John Locke!

Is it possible that Jacob is really Aaron in some mind bending time loopy way? Either baby Aaron is reincarnation of Jacob or has time looped through the ages as the Jacob character?

I like the theory that Sideways World is the final resolution for our Lost friends. This is how they would have ended up if Jacob had not been there to nudge/manipulate their lives toward the Island. As far as I can tell, all of the Jacob “touching” came after 1977 for each of those he touched. If that didn’t happen, things turn out differently.

What will be the qualifications of the “winning” candidate? So far the finalists are those who arrived at the Island at probably the lowest and most vulnerable and “claim-able” point in their lives.

Another small biblical reference from Job: Job is a man who fears God and does what is right. In return God blesses him beyond measure. Satan sees this and goes to God saying that if Job’s blessings were removed, he would curse God. Satan then asks for permission to put Job to the test to which God agrees with the stipulation “Do what you will, but don’t kill him.” Satan proceeds to do horrible things to Job, but Job never wavers in his faith. In the end everything is restored to him many times over.

Also, Satan’s original sin was pride. He though he could be equal to or higher that God, to which God said, “Uh, ain’t happenin’” and cast him out of heaven along with a third ? of the angels who followed him. He is described as a lion, out to kill, steal and destroy and also as the father of lies.

My feeling that ultimately this show is about free will versus destiny. In any case it’s certainly a major theme of the show.

On another note, my friend Lyndsey (also a huge LOST fan) texted me on the after noon of February 9th that she saw Michael Emerson at Dick Blick art supplies on Beverly Blvd in Los Angeles. I wonder if he’s done filming and what that means for his character?

Also, when we first meet MIB, he is complaining about people coming to the island and making the island that much worse every time. He seems to be the one thinking the island needs protection.

Perhaps Jacob’s visits to the Losties off-island was to touch them and give them some kind of protection from MIB, as he knew that MIB would try to “recuit” them.

Could the blond boy in the forest be some kind of personification of the island itself…the spirit of the island?

When Locke tells Saywer he was a man just like him…
he is either lying or telling the truth.

I would have to assume telling the truth. Becuase the Devil’s whole back story is that he was furious at God for treating Man so much better than the angels and Satan was like “oooooh heeeecky nooo!”. So I highly doubt someone who despises humans so much would ever want to be anything close to them at all.

I’m telling you there is something else at play here besides God and Devil.

also, mustn’t MIB have been inhabiting the Christian character previously (‘Unchristian,’ lol)? Like Locke, Christian also arrived at the island dead in a coffin, but his form appeared later. I bet Christian’s dead body is still somewhere on the island, like Locke’s.

the ‘bad twins’ like Christian and Locke are in contrast to those infected with ‘the sickness,’ like Claire and Sayid, who instead of being spawned into separate entities, remain in the same body but are ‘revived.’

in the hatch painting, the number 108 is painted inside a giant sun. So I have always thought that Sun would be important.

We are meant to believe that (1) good and evil are locked in a centuries-old battle on this magical island (fine); (2) there are special rules that they must abide by, and some higher power that enforces these rules (again, fine); (3) that people are periodically selected as pawns to play out this recurring battle; (4) these peoples’ lives are manipulated in order to bring them to the island, but only their free will can determine the outcome on the island. That’s all fine.

Meanwhile, another group of people (the Others) has lived on the island for generations, serving Jacob, and dealing with any interlopers who accidentally arrive. Good interlopers are identified (ie Cindy and the kids) and allowed to join; bad interlopers are eliminated (Dharma at the purge).

At times, the Others seem to know all about the conflict between good/evil. They know about the rules, and about the existance of candidates. What they didn’t know was this: that Jack, Sawyer, etc were the latest group of candidates personally selected by Jacob. Ben didn’t know this; Richard didn’t either. Dogan didn’t until Hurley gave him the ankh with the list hidden inside. From that point on, the Others treated our gang differently.

Who was on Hurley’s list? Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley and Jin. What about Sawyer? Somehow, Dogan knew Sawyer was important. Perhaps his name was also on the list. Maybe Miles too – which is why the Others captured them without harming them. My guess is that Jacob’s list included the names of all of the time travelers. Hence, “they’re coming”.

In the cave, MIB showed Sawyer another group of names: Jack, Sayid, Hurley, Kwon (it has to be Jin), Sawyer and Locke. These names all had corresponding numbers (THE numbers!). What does this mean for Kate? She may or may not have been listed on the cave wall – we really don’t know. But we do know she doesn’t have a number, so presumedly she isn’t a “candidate”.

Then again, everything in the cave, and everything MIB said to Sawyer, could be a lie.

@Eric from Ohio: While your email/theory is a sound one. I’m totally convinced that is almost the easy way out. It sounds good. But it comes off almost like the third Matrix Movie to me. The first Matrix set up this amazing plot device and the second one (while it could have been better) had a twist they could have run with…but the third one just turned into a good vs evil, our hero is a jesus figure thing…and all the amazing things they could have done…just weren’t there.
I would hate for Lost to just be God vs Devil.

@Rich in Cleveland: Good call on the fabric scene.

@yann from france: I mention you in my feedback call Your Kate will take over thing.

BUT, I want to throw some questions out the masses.

What do candidates have to do with rules and the game? And what does that all have to do with the coming war?

And does fake locke getting off the island have to do WITH the game OR is it his way of saying “I want out of the game”?????

I think we will learn that the buried dead bodies have a different quality, purpose or potential (or lack thereof). Did Locke receive the complete burial? We only saw a few shovels of dirt/sand. Loved the Frank Lapedis’ remark, “this is the weirdest funeral I’ve ever been to.” Murderers rarely confess at the grave site.

Thanks ABC for airing the prior episodes with the info footnotes. I learn something every week.

Hey Ryan, that’s cool your office was used in a shot. Also, where was the cliff with the rope ladders and cave filmed? Was it Makapuu Point area?

Personally, I don’t have any doubt in my mind but that we are dealing with “A Loop”. I think this was confirmed when team Darlton stated that the choice of “Feb 2, Ground Hog Day” for the premiere was NOT a coincidence. Which “part” of the loop we are seeing, and when, is the big question I believe.

My fear is, the ending of the show IS going to be like the beginning. Jack’s eye opening in the jungle. I have thought this for a very long time.

yes, i mentioned that earlier that the Ben History teacher in the X timeline looks like the Ben in the photo that Miles had when he came on the tanker and said “we’re looking for him.” So, does that mean that Charles Widmore had that photo taken of him in that time line? That the whole thing is on a loop?

I’m not so sure if the X timeline is the conclusion for the characters—I’m not sure if there are enough episodes—it would mean the Kate story is left hanging, right?

1. We don’t know exactly what Kate did anymore.

2. Why is Locke in a wheelchair? If his father pushed him, why would he invite him to the wedding?

3. Where is Jack’s father’s body?

I also think the MIB could be Locke in the flash sideways for several reasons

MIB says “Don’t tell me what I can’t do”. Maybe that is his signature line not Locke’s and he says it when he is Locke.

MIB and sideways Locke both talk about a body and spirit being separate things (when locke was talking to Jack about his dad’s body)

Ilana says the MIB is stuck in Locke’s body and can’t change again, so he is frustrated at being in a wheel chair.

Could the “Room 23″ film segment “God Loves You As He Loved Jacob” shed any light? Thoughts anyone?

Why aren’t there hundreds of names on the wall of the other possible ‘canidates’ over the years? We know that people have been ‘brought’ to the Island (mib to jacob-’you brought them here’) for a very long time. Why now do they need a canidate? I also think it’s Smokey’s cave. And I don’t think Sawyer is really 100% on board, he’s not the instantly trusting type..

Loved Hugo ‘Trump’ Reyes-the mega-enterpreneur! He owns the chicken place, Locke’s work, a temp agency, who knows what else. Hilarious.

What happened to Rose and Bernard in the Island senario when the bomb went off and they were living in the hills by themselves? Are they now in the same time as everyone else or in the 70′s still? Did you have to be close to the bomb to feel the effects? Hmm..they were the original Adam and Eve of earlier posts..

Maybe more later, thanks everybody! Awesome theories!

I was impressed with Sawyer’s perceptions last night. He saw through MiB immediately as a not-Locke. He also saw the young boy who Richard either didn’t or couldn’t see. Perhaps this is one of Sawyer’s abilities. Remember, he could also see Kate’s horse in the middle of the jungle.

As much as I believe MiB is good and Jacob isn’t, I fairly certain Sawyer is getting played by MiB. I think his recruitment efforts are also to find a replacement. I don’t want to see a Smokey Sawyer. Hasn’t he been through enough already?

According to MiB, Jacob has been looking for a replacement. Perhaps, Jacob is really … wait for it … Willy Wonka! Take a look at the parallels.

Jacob = Willy Wonka
MiB = Slugworth
Jack = Charlie
Christian = Grandpa Joe
Kate = Varuca
Sun = Violet
Sawyer = Mike
Hurley = Augustus
Apollo Bars = Scrum Diddly Umptious Bars
Others = Oompa Loompas

Sorry. My husband and I had a really good laugh over this last night, and I thought you all might enjoy it !

Best line ever!

Harold Claimed By Darkeness

I will pop back then lol

this calls for a rewatch!

On another note – the numbers in the cave was AWESOME! I didn’t see Goodspeed & Littleton at first watch, but previous posters have added screencaps. But Austen wasn’t there… WHY? And what about Hume & Whidmore & Linus? I really expected to see their names up there, too!

Last thing: At the end of season 2, when Ben captured Jack, Kate, Hurley & Sawyer and said they were on ‘Jacob’s List’ – Hurley was just taken to go back and tell the others… but Kate wasn’t on the wall… what’s up with that? I’d assume there really was a list, but then why wasn’t Kwon or Jarrah on that list too? Not enough bear cages?

I wonder if the reason Ilana cried for Bram and her other companions, but did not cry for Jacob is that she knew he was going to die already. Was it Jacob’s plan all along, and he brought her to the island to help him carry out his instructions after his death? I am very curious about Ilana’s relationship to Jacob and what her role will be as the rest of the final episodes play out.

If I remember correctly (during the first or 2nd season) the creators have stated that everything in the end will be explained by scientific theories (they may not be practically proven but still they will be scientific).

Why they should be 2 opposite sides fighting about the island? Why it should be Jacob or MIB? What is their scientific purpose?

Personally, I will be extremely disappointed if all there years of the show and all these phenomena are going to be explained with an imaginative mambo jumbo theory about angels,demons,gods,egyptians,aliens and, generally, with something arbitrary. I must admit that until now I think season 6 is the weakest one and believe me I used to be a fanatic of lost. When I saw that there were 2 sides (jacob and MIB) I started to think that maybe the end is not going to be what i thought it was going to be. They should stretch the seasons because of the new contract after all.

Still, they manage to keep us (as viewers) for 6 years, we advertised the show through this site and many others, we bought the merchandise and they had huge profit from commercials. Its hollywood after all and this will never change (no matter how sophisticated and smart the content appears).We are still an audience which is portrayed as target groups and numbers. Maybe the title of the show is an inside joke on us and all we earned is mittelos.

Some of the off-island connections almost cross the line into cheesy, but I kind of find it nice that all these other 815 people keep coming into Locke’s life in a way that seems to assist him somehow…get him back on some kind of path. But Ben? Doesn’t that seem to negate the theory that Jughead’s detonation was the thing that caused the parallel/sideways timeline to occur? I mean, wasn’t little Ben ON the island when that happened? If that was the thing that caused the island to sink, wouldn’t Ben be dead? If Ben is a teacher in that world, it stands to reason he was never taken to the island by his father in the first place.

At first I thought the child was Aaron, then maybe Jacob but after thinking about it for awhile, I am joining the ranks of those who think there may be a higher being who brought jacob and mib to the island, set the rules and is overseeing the game. Who or whatever that being is will play out over the course of the season. It is fascinating that Sawyer saw him and not Richard which gets back to the theory that Richard is always a 2nd in command and never is the leader.

So, didn’t see Lapidus’s name up there even though he was judged to potentially be a candidate. A candidate must be someone who can be he leader on the island? Jacob’s general in the war? Only a candidate can kill jacob or take MIB off the island? The cave is filled with candiates and once they are dead then they cease to be a candidate? Littleton is scratched out because she is dead (as we thought) from the house explosion? Or is Littleton Aaron.

I know that this ep filled us with more questions than answers but boy did I enjoy the ride and I loved every minute of it!

Could the entire series just be one of John’s elaborate war games and not real at all? Could it all be in Locke’s head which is why he is the central character in all worlds even after he dies in one, he comes back in another form?

I think you are on the right track with your theory about Kate. She is obviously “flawed” and no longer able to be a candidate but why bring her to the island then? I also like the theory that she is not a candidate because she is a woman and we can’t rule it out yet because we don’t know whether 42-Kwon is Sun or Jin.

@ Jeremy:

Loved the Wanker County comment. Hilarious!

@ Kait
What struck me about “Search and Destroy” is how similar it is to the Nirvana and Pixies songs Jack listened to when Ben described him as being “very dark.” Sawyer has surrendered to abandon and despair which has given AJ a way into his heart.

@Sobaika @MLE
The ladder in this case descends down corresponding to the dark man’s pull. Lost is littered with upward/downward modes of conduct–ladders in the hatch, in the sub, escalators, etc. The iconic image that first made me aware of this symbolism is Sun standing at the base of her father’s staircase looking up tentatively.

What does it mean that the ladder snapped behind Sawyer? Is there no way back for him?

@cuedblu
“This genie’s too angry
to go back into the bottle again….”

@Matt from MD
Yes! I knew she seemed familiar. I guess Rose has her own Lennon, an intermediary to screen out those who would just waste her time.

First, I thought it was strange that all these people did not recognize each other after being on the SAME FLIGHT from Australia just days before! You would think that one of them would have said, “Oh, yeah! I remember you from the plane.”

What was the significance of Jacob’s ashes? How are they related to the ash around the cabin, the temple and Bram?

After waffling back and forth for Team Black or Team White, I am leaning toward Team White. I think Flocke is lying to Sawyer about Jacob, doing anything he can to get people on his side. At the moment he is vastly outnumbered given the number of Others in the Temple.

Despite what Flocke says, I think the Island IS important and protecting it is a high priority. It is another ploy to get Sawyer on his side. And the names and numbers…I think they are Flocke’s doing. Remember that Jacob lived in the foot, not the cliffs.

@Sobaika-If Kate’s transgressions got her off the candidate list, then some of the others would be off too. Sayid: bad, Jin: bad, Sawyer: bad.

@Jeremy-LOL Wanker County! Ha!

I nearly fell off of my chair when it became clear that the numbers represented actual people. I listen to a pop culture podcast called the Steelehouse Podcast. They do a section every week on Lost and one of the hosts actually predicted a couple of weeks ago that the numbers would represent people and specifically those touched by Jacob!

In the very first scene, the machine got stuck when John’s ramp wouldn’t articulate. This is exactly what Jacob told Jack in his vending machine visit and also happened with the frozen donkey wheel. I even recall way back when Jin was instructed to deliver a message to the uncooperative official, the problem arose because the “machinery was very old” and somehow locked up. So, John’s ramp would not work and this required a leap of faith followed by the waters of life springing forth anew. Or you can just ascribe it to coincidence if you want to be stubborn.

The successive scenes of Locke’s funeral and his flash sideways admission to Helen illuminated a substantial difference between the “separate realities.” At the funeral Ben eulogized Locke as a believer and a man of faith. Yet in the sideflash that immediately follows, Locke’s description of his failed walkabout is almost a direct paraphrase of the way Flocke portaryed him. Moreover, Locke’s completely given up on miracles and rends the paper with Dr. Jack Shepherd’s name on it, not an insignificant act. The world is not ideal on the other side of the mirror.

The dark man had Richard Alpert wrapped up in a canvass cocoon hoping for a transformation from skeptic to servant.

Flocke told Sawyer “this isn’t your house.” I can’t help but wonder if this has some connection to Sawyer and Kate talking about playing house in the very same cabin.

What was up with the apparition of the feral child? At first, it was displaying a kind of stigmata. However, Flocke disregarded him completely as an illusion or echo–until Sawyer acknowledged his presence. That external validation somehow made it real and worth pursuing.

In the cliffside cavern, the materials on the table seemed, upon the most cursory examination, to deal with assaying and mining. There are many subtle references to mining going back to Henry Gale and, of course, the Black Rock. Then, in the very next scene, we see the substitute Locke urging his runners to “Dig it out! Dig it out!”

Finally, Richard tells Sawyer, “He doesn’t just want you dead, he wants everyone dead.” This explains all the seeming incongruities of the smoke monster’s actions. He very well might be able to dispatch any single person right on the spot, but this wouldn’t serve his larger purpose of ending the grand experiment so he can find relief and go home.

Sorry. First extra “finally.” Does Jacob’s quest for the right candidate shed new light on Desmond’s search for a replacement at the hatch?

Final “finally.” The distorted image of Jack in the promo: is the illusory reality finally going to break down so that the remaining players begin to “wake up” from their dream?

It’s looking more and more like the God/Devil scenario all the time. Now that Jacob is gone, Locke/Devil can start making his way “home”, and I REALLY don’t think we want him getting home…..

All I see now is a huge war between Good and Evil coming. It’s about to get crazy!!!!

This adds room for more theories (not that we didn’t have enough already).

4 – Locke
8 – Reyes
10 – Mattingly
15 – Ford
16 – Jarrah
20 – Roup(?)
23 – Shephard
42 – Kwon
64 – Goodspeed
75(?) – Costa
115 – Bargas
119 – Almieda
222 – O’Toole
291 – Domingo(?)
313 – Littleton
?? – Troup

When I was first watching I thought that every name was preceeded by one of The Numbers, but on second look, the other names are assigned fairly meaningless numbers, so of course our heroes are somehow special, or the numbers are somehow otherwise connected to them.

Other interesting things, though: Goodspeed is one of the names, and though I didn’t see the number, the implication is that Horace was brought to the island by Jacob. Could it be that Jacob was responsible for bringing ALL of Dharma to the island?

Another interesting thing: is this the first time we’ve seen Gary Troup’s name shown in the show proper (i.e., not in an ARG)?

Anyway, great episode tonight. Not the all-time best Locke episode or anything, but seeing European History teacher Mr. Linus venting about coffee filters was PRICELESS.

1) Did I see correctly? Was that a photo of Kate and Desmond at that temp agency?

2) Why was Kate touched, but not one of the names scribbled (or at least not associated with one of the “numbers”)?

Another great Locke episode!

Doesn;t the idea that Smokey now has to stay Locke, as Illana noted, sound familiar from some myth or other.

Though MIB accuses Jacob of bringing people to the island, early on, we have no reason to think that Jacob or Jacob alone wrote those names on the cave ceiling or assigned the numbers to them. MIB may have been doing most of it, perhaps noting the names and assigning numbers once they arrived. And those written there may not be candidates for Jacob’s job at all, if he had a “job.”.

It seems Jacob’s death is viewed by no one as especially bad for Jacob, just bad for them, regarding smokey. Illana cries for her mates, but not for Jacob. That suggests immortality, divinity.

Why does no one mention numerology in these posts, an Egyptian and Greek specialty? Did the writers rule that out in the past? Numerology really seems to be involved here. Someone mentioned Jack Shephard being # 23 and Psalm 23 beginning, “The Lord is my shephard.” That connection sounds very plausible. Whomever the biblical writers were, Old and New Testament, numerology was important for most of them. (40 days and 40 nights, 12 apostles, these numbers were used over and again, not to mention three wise men, the trinity.)

The last names of the core survivors have been emphasized in 6.04. With the cave numbers corresponding to the last names of our heroes, there may be something special about the fact that the name Reyes (meaning Kings, protector) and Jarrah (meaning God gives sweetness, honey), Shephard as noted, Ford (river crossing), John Locke (social contract theorist, key to setting and also breaking social rules as in the US Declaration of Independence. Later he was called Jeremy Bentham, father of the Utilitarian anti-child-labor movement (now stuffed and kept in a college at a London University–in the shadow of some church steeple?)

Could there be two survivor teams here–two trinities of 4, 8, 42, and also 15, 16, 23? Both adding up to 54. Then 54 twice is 108. If they’rethe antithesis of each other, perhaps on a good and bad scale, their meeting brings an explosion, canceling each other out like matter and anti-matter do every millisecond?

The numbers 4 and 8 have clear numerological associations with creation and death. The idea of dualities like good and bad, life and death depending on each other fits right in.

Can we assume that the child is Arron, Jacob or Sawyer because they are blonde? Lots of kids start out blonde, but start becoming brunettes by puberty.

I also thought of Jacob’s ladder..and the verse it is mentioned in- which talks about stones and giving land to the descendants:

Genesis 28:11-19

11 When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep. 12 He had a dream in which he saw a stairway [a] resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. 13 There above it stood the LORD, and he said: “I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you and your descendants the land on which you are lying. 14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring. 15 I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.”

16 When Jacob awoke from his sleep, he thought, “Surely the LORD is in this place, and I was not aware of it.” 17 He was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven.”

18 Early the next morning Jacob took the stone he had placed under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on top of it. 19 He called that place Bethel, though the city used to be called Luz.

A better title for the episode would have been Jacob’s Ladder. In the Biblical story God reveals himself to Jacob, on Lost, Unlock/Eseau reveals himself to Sawyer. On the island Unlock and Sawyer descend the latter (as opposed the Biblical where Jacob’s ladder is a climb upwards towards the heavens) to a place where Unlock throws away the white stone (innocence castaway?). Unlock’s triumph means no redemption for the Losties.

Though there are numerous interpretations of Jacob’s ladder. Could these be reflected in Sawyer’s options laid out by Unlock?

1) This cave with all the scribling and names, I was sure initially that it was MIB’s lair, since Jacob’s was in the foot of the statue. But Smocke seemed to tell Sawyer that it was Jacob’s cave …. I say – LIAR.

2) IF the cave is MIB’s/Smocke’s then (after looking at the screencaps above) … why would Claire ‘Littleton’ be crossed off… I guess because she is no longer a candidate or is it because she was ‘claimed’?? Just as he crossed off Locke name?? because he is out of play.

Alright, trying to go to sleep, now.

Also, I’m sure many others will mention this if they haven’t already but Fake Locke throws out the white rock symbolizing Jacob of course and the rock left on the scale is a black rock (as in like the slave ship).

Just kidding of course – great episode. must rewatch and collect my thoughts. Sometimes I wonder if just watching the episode without trying to figure anything out wouldn’t be better!!

Ahhh, to simply watch for the enjoyment of the story and then just wait for the next installment week after week.

No headaches, no mind exploisions, no crapping of any holy or unholy kind – ahh, just to watch, per chance to understand.

See you all after a good night sleep.

Ok, did anyone see that GIANT SPIDER behind dead Locke’s ear? So creepy, I’m getting chills just remembering how it skittered around his bald head!!!

Also, I really liked this episode. I like the thought of the kid being Aaron. Not sure how that works with the timeline. . . I’m fine with the numbers representing people. At least they represent something! I wonder if John will end up having Walt as a student. If so, will Walt even look like himself? Would they have had the foresight to film it that far in advance? Does that make sense?