@Aaron – Yup, makes sense. Poor Jack and Ben and Sawyer spend 90% of the show bruised and bloody.

I don’t know if it is really all black and white. Some of smokey’s actions are bad, yet he has let people go. Plus fake locke’s final remark of “I am disappointed in all of you” means something.

It will be interesting to see where this story goes.

@Aaron- I didn’t catch the “mates” I did hear him say “brotha” at the beginning which made Jack look at him again.

I am so excited to have the opportunity to watch the show without interruptions. This isn’t always easy with 3 kids.

For a good period of S5, I felt our losties would experience the purge first hand and have their lives ended during it (so as to provide conclusion to a time-loop in which they can not ever meet themselves post-crash… anyways that was just a silly theory)

I am fairly confident the LA X reality will be a reset that occurs following the events of the series’ main reality (oceanic crash – oceanic 6 – time loop – final S6 battle etc)

One of the main things I like to hear from these podcasts is to know what facts the creators have given us and what they have said. In this regard, some of the answers they gave on Jimmy Kimmel are probably quite relevant (“Walt & Michael not on plane – intentional”)

The cracked window glass beside Jack in the opening, and the cut on his neck, I would say are tiny remnants of the realities being reconciled/reversed.

Also, the very interesting Jorge Garcia podcast (in which they analyze the script pre-shooting i think!) mentions that in the shot with Jack on the plane, the look on his face is meant to be of ‘strange familiarity’ or something along those lines.

Q/ Have the creators confirmed that ‘the purge’ was to be seen in the finale or towards the end of the show. Because if so, I would be very interested how this would occur

(i had always imagined a purge being, all of our losties dying on the island, so that they could re-exist within a new, corrected reality)

@Carol
Perhaps I should have read down further. It was Christian who told Locke that he needed to move the island and then Ben ran with that further instruction.

@Aaron. Great, great note about the mate/brother difference, my kinsman. I’ve always thought Desmond’s accent was a bit off (unlike the girl he stood up for Penny) and wonder what you think about that.

@Yann
How do you explain Dave? There’s no way smokey could have been in possession of his body. I’m not sure how much smokey needs bodies so much as he needs access to scanned memories to work his magic. This may explain why he kills the first member of any new party to arrive, a la the pilot and (?) French girl besides Rousseau.

So many great posts! I salute you all and can’t wait for the new podcast tomorrow.

What if when Juliette said “It Worked”, she meant she was able to get pregnant on the island….

Somebody please refresh my memory, how did Ben and Locke find out in Season 4 that they had to save the island by turning the wheel. I think it was Christian and Claire at the cabin with John right? He told Ben and Ben said it that it had to be him that turned the wheel instead of John as a punishment because once you left the island you could never come back. Is this correct? I haven’t seen that episode since it orginally aired.

I think Christian came back to life and is actually wandering around the island in his own body. I wouldn’t be surprised if we got a flashback showing Jacob visiting (and touching) Christian.

Being Scottish we kept a close eye on Henry Cusick’s portrayal of Desmond early on in Lost, and we were surprised that he used the term “brother” regularly. Seemed strange given that it’s rarely used over here and Henry Cusick is Scottish. When they gave him the monk backstory it made sense of course. But in LA X he refers to Jack as “mate” on two occasions. This had us nodding in approval as it’s much more common here, but it occurs to me that this could well be another one of the “changes” in the divergent time-line. Perhaps this Desmond was never a monk? If the H-Bomb went off in the 70′s then Ellie wouldn’t have made it off the island, and wouldn’t have met Brother Campbell – we don’t yet know about their connection but it may well involve Desmond in some way.

Anyway, just thought that this was a minor allusion to a possible change in the timeline that people might not notice!

Here’s a creepy fact for you all as well. Henry Cusick has a son called “Esau”.

Remember the horse that Kate saw? Why would smokey manifest into something to comfort her? I wonder if the island has the power to manifest people or animals, or if this is only a Jacob or Smokey power.

Another puzzle is in the episode “The other woman” when Goodwin’s wife appeared to Kate to give a message from Ben. How did she get a message from Ben, who was isolated at the time? I also wondered if she was actually alive since Juliet seemed very surprised to see her. I still wonder why Juliet didn’t give all her “other” knowledge to Sawyer when they were together.

Who is the Man in Black?
Where do the Others get their ninja skills?

@Gary – I am a bit confused what do you mean the scene was shown twice when they landed in 1977? Why at the beginning of the episode and the end?

@Bill – Only one leg was broken, so he could use a cane with the cast, though he was in a wheelchair sometimes as well.

Note to self – Find time to rewatch Season 5!! I only had time to rewatch the last four episodes.

@Connie_in_Oregon Thanks for your reply!! BTW, almost typed “Alaska”! lol

I’m thinking two timelines right there. Can someone with the DVD check the episode and confirm?

@Ryan: I agree with Carol! That is insane! But it was the first time they did a 2hour premiere and the last season one to add more… and they add a whole lot of questions on top of that. After almost a year we did not have a knew episode and now everyone is just going insane I guess. But I am sure things will be more “quiet” next week.
Cheers! Cheers! Cheers! Lost is still so great!!! You are all so great! This is just so much fun!!!

Plus this will give everyone something fun to listen to on their Monday morning commute, or something to listen to on Sunday to fend off those Monday blues.

Maybe it was a clue to the two different timelines. One takes place in LA, the other on The Island (“X”). The fact that LAX was the destination of 815 just cemented it.

Our podcasts will continue to be released on Sundays. With the new Tuesday night broadcasts of “LOST,” we know our shows are now closer than ever to the next new episode, but we figure we’ll just position ourselves as a good day-before primer for it.

Frankly, the web is chock full of “initial reaction” and day after podcasts, so we’ve always enjoyed taking the extra time to put out a podcast with as much consideration (and especially great feedback) as we can each week. Thanks for listening!

Thanks in advance for all the hard work.

1. Where was fake locke when Christian was talking to Sun and Lapidus at the dharma camp?

2. Since Christian can touch and hold things, why did he refuse to help John? Why couldn’t he touch him?

@Glen – good observation re: Christian’s clothes, I haven’t noticed the shoes, I noticed the suit jacke and tie missing, just couldn’t pinpoint when that changed.

I haven’t been able to rewatch season 5 so my memories aren’t fresh about that season.

I am rewatching the premiere, and I am at the beginning, I have changed my mind about Sawyer, he looks sincere about trying to help Hurley instead of taking his money. I also caught Kate stealing Jack’s pen.

Had to stop watching till later, too many things to do today. I know that many of you have watched the episodes over and over, I haven’t, so thanks for helping me and pointing things out to me. I am watching the episode again with so many more things in mind.

For starters, it’s hard to believe that MIB/Nemesis can have free reign inside the Temple, the stronghold of Jacob and his followers. My intuition keeps telling me that the Smokey that “judged” Ben was actually Jacob, “greasing the wheels” to his own death by telling Ben that he absolutely MUST obey Locke at all costs. Remember — Locke appeared VERY surprised to hear Ben relay the message he received. Not just slightly surprised. If he wasn’t surprised because it was actually him, then it was one hell of an acting job — and a big red herring by Team Darlton. He even said out loud something to the effect of “Well, I guess it will be easier to convince you to do what I need you to do after all” — with very convincing facial expressions.

Maybe Jacob’s version of the Smoke Monster IS the judger (why else would Ben make such a big deal about being judged?), while MIB’s version is the Scan-For-Manipulation-Potential.

Throw it on the crackpot possibilities pile!

But on the whole, I like it, and it ties in nicely to my own thoughts — one of which is that prior to the appearance Christian made to Claire, it was Jacob who was appearing as Christian. Seems to me that all his appearances prior to that were more or less benevolent in nature — sending Vincent to wake him up in the pilot, and later helping Jack find water when it was desperately needed. Plus, remember that Jacob had relatively recently “touched” Jack back in L.A. To me that means that for whatever reason, Jacob had a vested interest in Jack “doing well” on the island or something (whatever that means). Also note that Christian was always wearing white shoes in those early sightings — BUT AFTER THE LOCKE-VISITING-THE-CABIN EPISODE, WE NEVER SAW THE WHITE SHOES ON CHRISTIAN AGAIN.

The first time Christian appears in different garb is when he appears to Claire. To me that is the clear demarcation point — the first time that Christian appeared under the influence of Smokey/MIB/Nemesis. And to my eyes, from that point forward, Christian became a much more overt manipulator — pushing John Locke towards his own desired ends. Watch him — he seems to be much more directive from that point on — directing JL to his own ends. Prior to that, he was trapped in the cabin, with less capacity to impact the events of the island (not saying he still couldn’t impact things as Ol’ Smokey, but just not as broadly as he would have liked.) Once he was freed from the cabin, his power and manipulation-ability factor rose. And, as you pointed out, something in John seems to have changed after that first visit. (I am going to re-watch that episode to see if I agree with you on that one.)

All in all, your crackpot theory fills in a lot of the blanks on my own crackpot theory! Thanks for the ideas!

Oh, and by the way, a corollary to this crackpot theory is that if it’s true, then MIB probably is holding Claire somewhere on the island, either against her will, or not. Because that would have been Smokey-Nemesis in the cabin with Claire, not Jacob.

@Rich in Cleveland — I don’t know if we actually SAW John Locke pick up some ash or not. I’m going to rewatch that episode tonight.

@lucydog good thinking! i remember that was the big mystery: if the losties were flashing through time, why did the whole island disappear? i think you’re onto to something with that “plop” theory.

1. Juliet:

“It worked,” = the bomb went off and it did restart things, just as Faraday and Jack hoped. THAT’S what we’re watching when we see the 815 flight that lands at LAX.

2. Cindy, the stewardess/then as a much shaggier temple dweller:

“He was with me on the FIRST plane…” Note that the temple dwelllers seem to know exactly what she means, and back off- like the first plane was harmless.

The others know that 815′s flight actually happened TWICE. The first was when it harmlessly reached LAX.

The second was when it was brought down by the Desmond screw-up.

BOTH were part of MIB’s massive chess game to bring Jacob down.

The first attempt failed because “It worked”- the bomb prevented the crash.

The second attempt succeded because MIB brought Desmond to the island where he screwed up and set in motion the events that ultimately lead to Jacob’s murder. (Note that Desmond is motivated by Widmore’s badness- an ally of the MIB?)

Has anyone happened to follow the show Fringe? Fringe has been dealing with the parallel universe theme off & on since the beginning.

I couldn’t help but notice especially in last night’s episode, the many similarities between it’s parallel universe theme and LOST throughout the whole show.

I mean JJ Abrams – LOST – Fringe ???? Parallel Universe(s) Just could be the answer to the whole series.

Ryan and Jen: Kudos to you for the excellent podcast and the well-deserved Nightline, NPR, and ABC News mentions! Don’t like to see this end, so I hope you’ll do rewatches of seasons 4, 5, and 6!! (Okay, and maybe 1, 2 and 3, after we’ve read the whole book, er, seen the whole series.)

So many great comments, I’m utterly convinced that you all could (and should?) write for the show.

I agree with many of you, like Carol from Boston, that Jacob is not to be trusted, that he is not “the good guy.” I think of what Lapidus says about “not buying it”, and I’m with our good captain.

Yann from France: Loved your reminder of Locke using a surrogate killer (Sawyer) to kill his father and so become the leader (which is also a reversal of the Abraham/Isaac story…although of course God stops Abraham from killing his son.) Then we have Ben killing Jacob. There are tons of surrogates on Lost–surrogate moms, dads…and now killers.

Bonita in Atlanta: So Jacob is their Constant? I love that!

Steven in Bathurst and Rich in Cleveland: Love the idea of Desmond and the Black Rock, and again the theme of people being in places they are not supposed to be. (Like Charlie noting that he is “supposed to die.” Or Claire being told not to let her son be raised by an/Other [like Kate?]. Or how they’re not supposed to leave the island, as Locke says…where am I going with this? Wish I knew!)

Aaron in Scotland: I have a minor quibble with the idea of being able to kill Jacob’s followers only after Jacob is gone. If that is so, why not go ahead and do it right away? UnLocke/Smoky first talks to them about the relief of being “freed”.

One more comment before 3rd viewing: the second death of Juliet. I still think it was cheap and manipulative. While I understand and appreciate the logical narrative line provided by NuckinFuts (about how she needed to be alive to flash to the new time), dramatically her original death was da bomb. (My fingers made me do that.)

Loved the two hour opener. I have many thoughts but don’t want to overwhelm you. One point I wanted to bring up is this.

Way back when, when Locke moved the island, those in the helicopter watched the island sort of “plop” and disappear in the ocean. Like it sort of sunk. I was wondering that the view from Jack’s seat from the plane, in 2004, was because that’s where the island went when someone moved the island. perhaps when the island is moved, a parallel universe is formed?

The best part? A new Transmission Podcast! Love the work and welcome back.

TVGuide.com: We hear there are some little hints in the final poster. What should fans take away from viewing this?

Cuse: I think you should look in there and there will be a couple of clues to the final season that are embedded in that poster. It will make a lot of sense once you’ve actually seen a few episodes of the show.
Lindelof: You should look at the poster and think of the things you’ve seen on the show, and then whatever else is left, that’s a clue for Season 6.

What if Richard Alpert was The Man in Black’s replacement? Notice we’ve seen Jacob in the present, but not the Man in Black. Likewise, we haven’t seen Richard and the Man in Black at the same time — or the smoke monster and Jacob and the Man and Black on the screen at the same time in past.

What if the Man in Black became the Smoke Monster when Jacob chose Richard as his new advisor? He sort of fell from grace and no longer had a physical body until Locke provided that to him again.

Just a crazy theory. Can’t wait for your podcast!

1) Hurley: “What happened?” Jin: “I found a flashlight.”

2) Bram picks up the bullet that he shot at the MiB, and then you hear the hunting call of the smoke monster. MOST EPIC MOMENT EVER!!!

Some of us might wonder why the smoke was used as a guard in Othertown and by Ben to be judged. MIB has been really good at deceving everyone about that part of his identity! Yet the Others clearly knew that “dead people” could be used by him… I wonder how Jacob could not have told them about that! Maybe he only knows how to write lists!

Of course, I informed him that you have THE BEST Lost podcast!

One other note about the collapse of Tawaret as it relates to the fertility issues. I really hope the explanation for the interruption in fertilty has some scientific basis rooted in the tear in the fabric of time and isn’t just the product of the destruction of this giant totem. If the latter were the case anyway, why not just build another?

when he scanned ben underneath the temple, he learned about what happened to alex. and next thing you know, he turned into alex, who convinced ben to obey locke (MIB). with ben, smokey found someone who had a strong enough motive to kill jacob. he used alex (ben’s weakness) to further his agenda. this makes sense why in the finale, fake Locke knows everything about what ben has done “in the name of a man he’s never met.”

remember, he also scanned eko, and with eko’s history, the MIB thought he might use eko’s brother to force eko to do his bidding. but eko found redemption and was killed for it.

so in short, smokey scans, but doesn’t judge.

@Bonita
They love to play with ambiguity in language, but I don’t know if that one’s right. It almost feels like a foregone conclusion that we’ll see Richard brought to the island on the Black Rock. Although he could just have easily been brought there at any time, say at the time of the building of the statue of Tawaret.

Just wanted to put this out there because of the whole Esau thing.
I’m kind of surprised that I’ve not seen this anywhere, but Esau forgave Jacob. When Jacob left home to escape Esau’s wrath, he went to his uncle, Laban. There he was tricked into marrying the older daughter, Leah, before he could marry his true love, Rachel. Eventually, he left to possibly reconcile with Esau. He brought his entire family and wealth and eventually made it back home. Esau came to meet him and, surprisingly to Jacob, welcomes him back and forgives him the ‘sins of the past’. The big irony here is that Jacob is the deciever and trickster. He constantly lies and scemes, along with his mother, to get things, like the birthright that should have gone to Esau. But, in the end, Esau forgave Jacob.

Also, in an earlier post, Malachi was mentioned. By the time that this book was written, the Edomites (Esau’s descendents), had been displaced by outside peoples. So when God talks about hating Esau, he’s saying that he hates the peoples that have taken the Edomites land since they aren’t loyal to God.

Last thing, @ Garrett J, are you saying that in 1977, something happened to make everything SKEW OFF into a tangent. Sorry, too much of a certain podcast were that reference comes up a lot.

Again, love the podcast, love the show, love that it’s on Tuesday now since that one of my days off and I can watch live.

I have nothing to add or ask as so much has been discussed here already. I am vacationing with my family in the Outback (may I will see Locke, I will keep you posted .

I find it sad that no one from S2 was present, I guess they did not matter after all.

Thanks for enhancing The Lost Experience and keep up the good work.

Ilias

MIB told Jacob that he had gone to great lengths to find his loophole. That means he has been manipulating things for a very long time. Perhaps since Ben was healed. I think Jacob knew and prepared for MIB’s plan by touching the Losties and bringing them to the island. I think that is who he said are coming along with Alana. I wonder why Jacob didn’t have an ash ring around the statue. I think he knew it was time for the final stage to happen whatever that is. Notice that his tapestry was done and he was waiting in his rocking chair. He was willingly sacrified, much like Christ.

I too like to compare MIB and Jacob to Lucfer and Christ. Lucifer wanted to force everyone to heaven, but Christ came to allow free will. Jacob always says to each person, “you have a choice”

I think the key to understanding the flash sideways is when MIB said that Locke was the only one who knew that he had a pitiful life. Did you notice that all their lives continued into a pitiful state. Except for Locke who was told by Jack that nothing was reversible. It seems that each person’s situation was the opposite of what it was on the original flight. On Jimmy Kimmel. Darlton said that the absence of Shannon was not a coincidence.

I also think Richard was a survivor of the Black Rock. I think he too was healed in the pool. Hence his immortality. I wonder if Dogen is also ageless. Do the others represent the survivors of past groups that Jacob has brought to the island. Did MIB bring the Dharma or did Jacob?

Firstly, my theory is starting to grow in acceptance after listening to Darlton’s latest podcast (Go on iTunes to dl) where they mentioned Universe X is happening at the same time and should be considered an equal reality.

Secondly, the ninja leader of the Temple’s name is Dogan which refers to a book by Stephen King, The Dark Tower, who’s main watchtower was called Dogan as well. So, if the writers are referencing The Dark Tower, then I theorize that the parallel Universe theme is going to be the same:

In the Dark Tower: The Gunslinger, Roland of Gilead is a cowboy/lawman hunting “The Dark Man” in a parallel universe whose foundation is falling apart. In the pursuit, Roland comes across a young boy who, in a parallel world, The Dark Man killed by throwing him into New York traffic; Jake Chambers remembers as the truck ran over his face. As Jake dies in our Universe, he travels to Roland’s universe instantaneously. So I think this is what MUST happen for our Lost-ies in order for them to live in a world without The Island.

Finally, with Sayid dying for more than an hour, I theorize we will find out whether or not dying is the answer to transferring over to the separate dimension. I welcome any thoughts.

PS: Love the show and I wished I participated during the rewatch. I got my parents into watching Lost, but we watched it in Spanish so I would have submitted my thoughts in the wrong language. Thank you for reading and if you mention it on the show.

We’re not seeing alternate realities, or parallel universes, but iteration number 10 of the Lost Loop. They’ll figure it out this season and we’ll get to see how it all comes together.

@Adam in Grapevine — I looove Terry Pratchett!

I went back and watched the scene starting just before when Cindy called for a Doctor.

She made the announcement over the PA. When she makes the announcement, Desmond is in the aisle seat reading and Jack is in the window seat.

Cindy comes back and turns out the call light when she’s standing in the aisle and asks Jack if he’s a doctor. Note where she’s standing. She’s in the aisle in line with the row that Jack is in.

Then we switch to a view where we’re looking forward/up the aisle towards Jack & Cindy. Note Cindy’s position again. She hasn’t moved. She’s still in the aisle with her hand touching the aisle side of the headrest of the aisle seat.

Someone is clearly sitting in that seat. The aisle seat of Jack’s row. Someone with long brown hair. That someone clearly sits up to allow Jack to get into the aisle and then that someone sits back down once Jack is in the aisle.

It has to be Desmond. Desmond did not “appear” to Jack only like his father has done. Desmond was corporeally present in the “LA X” version of Oceanic 815. He moved seats temporarily and after the incident with Charlie was over, moved back to his prior seat.

Bottom line. Desmond was truly present on the flash-sideways 815. He wasn’t included in the shot where Cindy turned off the call light, but he was definitely on flash-sideways 815. (Crossposted at YuBlog.org)

We know Jacob’s appearance to Hurley was not MIB. I seem to recall Darlton claiming there were two distinct types of manifestation on the island. Therefore, we shouldn’t assume that Christian Shepherd is just another puppet of Smokey. In fact, I think he functions as a spirit guide as did Ben’s mother, Emily, as well as Jacob in LA X. Dave, Yemi, and Alex seem the most likely to be MIB in disguise. I also think there are rules to how smokey can wield his deceit. I remember Dave fleeing at the sound of the alarm. I really wish they would bring back the concept of “dark territory” mentioned by Rousseau as smokey’s domain.

As someone mentioned above, how come the others are free to roam the island with smokey on the loose? There must be limitations or ways to evade him. Is that why they creep along and speak in indecipherable whispers?

The LAX timeline is different to the original because the island was destroyed in the 70s. Ben and his influence on the outside world would have also died with the island. I’m not sure if Widmore was on the island at the time, but even if not, he would no longer care. So all of the people prodding the losties in the right direction along the way would be out of the picture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmIpaZDiQ5Y

Here’s a video I made talking about LA X Part One =)

This is from EW.com, a video with a side by side comparison of both flights of 815.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/04/lost-a-side-by-side-comparison/?ew_packageID=20313460?xid=email-alert-lost-20100204-item1

Also being a Boston Red Sox fan, I cannot live in a world where we don’t win a world series, been there, did that, for too many years!! Go Sox!

re: alternate reality at LAX – Carlton and Damon’s zombie seson? (ha ha)

Ryan and Jenn, we all love you for giving us this “home” where we can discuss and be friends. You’ll never know how much we appreciate what you’ve given us. Congratulation on the Nightline publicity!

That’s a great point. If SunX & JinX are not married, etc. maybe SawyerX is a lot more different too & perhaps his folks did not die. I suppose all history since the explosion could be different for the entire world. Perhaps The Red SoxX always win the series. Hmmmm….

Namaste! NuckinFutsX

@ MLE : re: Juliet – agree they milked it a little, but here is a little more credence to the fact that she never died last season: She falls in and as she’s hitting the bomb she and the rest flash forward in time. If she had died before the flash she would not have come forward in time because we know that Charlotte’s dead body did not come through time last season. They have to be alive to flash.

@ Jessica : re: LA_X – thanks – that was a great way to put things in perspective I think – For me, I think it will make since to refer to the new timeline folks as Jack_X ; Sun_X ; Arzt_X ; etc.

@ Noelle & everyone: RE: Christian – Agree that perhaps MIB & or Jacob may be using the cabin and the likeness of Christian to their ends. Very well put.

It also makes me think back to when Ben tells John he must kill his father as a sign of commitment. Hmmm. Does anyone think that Jack will end up having to kill Christian ( or what looks like Christian ) to prove their faith in _______. Crazy?

@ Alex in MD : re: Aliens : I agree though I see the fuss people make about this and understand ( I was furious about the new Indiana Jones ); but in this instance we were shown the comic book in one of the very 1st episodes w/ the alien; a city in a bubble ( space ship? ) ; etc. I agree that it’s somewhat…allowable??….not sure how Ryan feels from memory but please don’t hate me Jen!

Last season we were told that you can’t change the past, present or future, because whatever happened, happened. Based on this theory time is like a string that cannot be altered. Our characters may have jumped back and forth to different points on that string, but there’s nothing they can do to change the course of that string. From a storytelling perspective, this means that the story of our characters has already been written and cannot be altered.

Faraday’s plan to change the future was based on the idea of introducing the power of an atomic bomb to the electromagnetic properties of the island. I think what we’ve seen this season in the alternate timeline is the result of an energy so powerful that the timeline was literally ripped in two.

So prior to 1977 and the moment of the Incident we have one timeline, as things were meant to be, but after 1977 we have two divergent timelines, as if that string had been torn and taken two separate paths. This way, you avoid any paradoxes. Our characters that went back in time and visited the 70′s and the 50′s were all from the string we’re familiar with.

And this is just awesome from a storytelling perspective because we get the best of both worlds: the reset and our characters given a second chance and the continuation of the story on the island. Only, the manner in which these two alternate realities were created and the connection between them seems as though it’s extremely relevant to the rest of the plot and the ultimate end of the series.

I am so glad they are keeping up with the Wizard of Oz references- because as you guys know its my favorite thing. I can’t tell if I am more glad that the show is back on or that I get to listen to all of you guys again…all of it is great!

I have to say- I was kind of disappointed with the fact that they milked another death out of Juliet- it sort of waters down the first one which was so beautiful and well done.

I do like that Sayid was resurrected though…should make for a fun season!

Welcome back!

At the very beginning of ep 601, as the white blast of the bomb fades to the clouds outside Jack’s airplane window, you can clearly see a tree, first through the mist, and then as a kind of reflection in the plane window. Is it Kate’s tree? Is it a way to show that the two after-Jughead realities are taking place at the same time?

I thought it was pretty cool but didn’t think it was that important until I saw Carlton Cuse’s tweet of 2/1:”DL and I are in editing looking at some POV shots of trees for a sequence we are editing. Trees are important on LOST.”

So what’s the importance of the reflected tree, except to say that we are looking at mirror images? (Followed by the mirror image of Jack in the airplane lav)

One more note before I finish reading above: what struck me about Charlie on the plane is the definitive, knowing way he said, “You shouldn’t have done that, man. I’m SUPPOSED to die.” That didn’t sound to me like someone who was invested in suicide so much as invested in doing something to fulfill a certain, dare I say it, destiny? As if he has some knowledge the others in this timeline don’t.

Okay, time to finish reading!

What if the reason Locke was able to walk again on the Island was because Jack had surgically fixed him in the alternative timeline. When the plane crashed, somehow Locke’s timelines got interchanged, and he became the Locke from the alternative timeline we’re seeing this season. Since that Locke’s paralysis had been healed, he was able to walk. Crazy, I know, but I thought I’d put that out there.

And I think someone else mentioned it here before (sorry can’t remember who), but it will “end” as in the LA X timeline, with everyone being strangers to one another. Reason I say “end” is because this amazing story, will have no end!

Actually just occurred to me as I was about to post this, doesn’t the Wizard of Oz end in a similar fashion? Not with anyone dieing, but with Dorothy telling of her amazing story saying “You were there, and you, and you were there too, oh why doesn’t anyone believe me?!” Akin to Jack telling Desmond, “Don’t I know you from somewhere?” Answer?? Yes, but in another life, brotha!!!

OK… I won’t have the podcast until this WE? I am going to watch the damn 1h40 a second time! And maybe a third tomorrow! I am such an addict…

I had honestly forgotten about Locke’s quip about wanting to go “home”. While watching the premiere with my friends, someone jokingly said, “Ha! What if he’s an alien?!” To which my immediate thoughts went to the most recent Indiana Jones film. I don’t think the writers would do THAT to us, but if they pulled the alien-card as LOST’s deus ex machina, I will kill them. Really.
I. WILL. KILL. THEM!

“Sliding Doors” also immediately came to my mind — good to see that mentioned — two alternate realities that eventually mesh…

Thank-you so much to Ryan and Jen for your weekly write-ups which help to clarify the madness, and thank-you to all you theorists who make me think deeper — I also particularly like Aaron’s (from Scotland) post

Love being L O S T (and found) — xxxooo

@Steven & Aaron
Jacob allowing himself to be killed is very reminiscent to me of the death of Obi Wan Kenobi in Star Wars. The teacher surrenders to death as part of the calling of a greater power and dies at the hand of his former pupil. This pupil goes over to the dark side, but is not beyond salvation. He eventually redeems himself by killing the tyrannical emperor. This would support my theory that only Ben, still the leader, can kill MIB.

Another film allusion I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere is the similarity of Lennon to the photojournalist who interprets for Kurtz in Apocalypse Now. Heart of Darkness (which Apocalypse adapts to the Vietnam War) and Kurtz have been mentioned several times on Lost.

I don’t think I like the idea of the MiB being a prisoner while Jacob is his warden — I’ve always envisioned them as two sides to the same coin, equals with different philosophies.

@Jessica – I like your explanation of the title, makes a lot of sense.

http://twitpic.com/119whz

Now a comment that I don’t think has been mentioned here yet…… At the Temple, when Cindy the flight attendant said she knew Jack & company, did anyone else happen to catch the fact that she said “They were on the FIRST plane, Oceanic 815 along with me”? I just re-watched that part of the episode and the word “FIRST” was definitely there. Anyone else think that this was significant?

Or maybe she was just differentiating between flight 815 and Ajira 316. With LOST anything is possible, but the word “FIRST” sure seemed to stand out to me.

Again, thanks for the wonderful premiere weekend activities in Hawaii Ryan & Jen. Your efforts along with Bruce & team are to be commended

Earth X: The “X” in ‘LA X’ stands for an alternate reality. It is commonly used in comic books including Marvel Comics which have an alternate history/timeline called “Earth X”. (Books)

My other crack-pot theory (after re-watching Cabin Fever from Season 4 just after watching LA X), is that there is a third person, a woman, involved in the ancient times of Jacob and the man-in-black. Let’s remember that Bram or Ilana indicated that “someone else has been using the cabin.” Now let’s assume that the image/persona of Christian Shepard was being used by the man-in-black. So, who was using the form of Claire (who, had been blown up in the house by then). It was the third person. The man-in-black’s mate. So, now you have a man and a woman going back to ancient times. Could we now have an explanation of who Adam and Eve are? Or we could explore the metaphor further…could Jacob be Adam, the new mystery woman be Eve and the man-in-black is The Serpent?

Narratively, I have no idea what the implications of this backstory and how it relates to the Losties and the overall threat to the real world and our existance. But I am on the edge of my seat to see how it plays out.

That’s my crack-pot theory, and I’m sticking to it.

Narratively, I have no idea what the implications of this backstory and how it relates to the Losties and the overall threat to the real world and our existance. But I am on the edge of my seat to see how it plays out.

That’s my crack-pot theory, and I’m sticking to it.

“John Locke’s Last Thought” I think that either the Man in Black was lying about John’s last thought. Perhaps Miles or Hurley will have a conversation with him. Or the thing that John did not understand has some significance. We can only guess what he “did not undertand”. Did he not understand why Ben would kill him now that he had found out that he was successful? That actually isn’t all that sad. If that is the case, the real John Locke actually died knowing that his actions and his alone set in motion the events needed to get the Losties back to the island, which is what he believed was what the island (and by extension, the rest of the world) needed to stay safe. Or, uh, something like that.

This blog has been such a great community of ideas. Have you considered writing a book after the season ends on how Web 2.0 has affected entertainment? Beyond the amazing writing, this show’s success comes partly from its timing in our technological world. Our ability to come together with theories, book reviews, art interpretations, etc. has enriched our viewing experience and pushed the writers to place each detail carefully.

Great job, and thanks for this site!

Flight 316, Locke’s (MIB) return, Jacob’s death — what is the timeline? The Dharma village is dilapidated and abandoned, the survivor’s camp is all run-down. Should be years following the original story. 2007, 2010, Other?

I theorise that Jacob has the same “smoke monster” ability that MiB does (and infact, i think he visited Locke in this guise early on, leading to Locke suggesting that he saw the heart of the island, and it was beautiful, white smoke?), i could have escaped, or killed Ben if he had wanted to.

Perhaps he allowed himself to die because he knew that he could be resurrected, or because he knew that time would loop again (if you subscribe to the time loop theory), or because he knew he could pass on the message to Hurley, and thought that was more important than living.

The alternative, perhaps, is that as you suggest – he just realised things were coming to their conclusion.

I see redemption for Ben myself, and have been saying since we first met Ben that i think he’s “the good guy” on some level. But i’m not sure about whether i think Ben is acting as a kind of… double agent for Jacob. I think his reaction was legitimate, i think he stabbed Jacob because in that moment he felt hatred, he was going through the same feelings of abandonment that he felt whenever his dad insulted or beat him. MiB set him up by appearing as Alex, pointing out that he had been a bad father to her, and then broke the camels back by pointing out that Jacob didn’t care about him, that he got cancer despite doing everything he could to protect the island.

I think Ben has become the tool, the ultimate Pawn in the bigger game, and i don’t see him picking up his role as puppet master again, i think finally he is “Lost” and although he may eventually end up back on top, he’s in for a rough ride.

A few comments:

I love the dual-reality/parallel universe storyline. I feel like we’re getting twice the story for our money here! Like most people, I figured we would get only one of the two apparently possible outcomes to the detonation. And what an awesome surprise — without having to watch any extra commercials, we get to see BOTH stories! It couldn’t get any better, in my mind. And oh the fun we now get to have of trying to guess how the two threads will intersect!

The biggest questions in my mind after watching:

-Speaking of parallel realities… We’ve already had a very specific example of what that might look like — DESMOND, and his dual-existence in two realities! I bet you that that is the direction they will take this. The Losties will all begin to exist in both realities! Little by little, increasingly, the two realities will intersect, and they will each be aware of the other, just like Desmond was.

-Can’t help but wonder if it is possible that Jacob has been orchestrating everything, including his own death? Also, is there any chance that Ben is actually following along with Jacob’s plan in all this?

-Was the ash circle around the Cabin keeping Nemesis/Esau IN?

Or OUT? Very important question. Also, when did the ash circle become broken (which would tell us a lot.)

-Do Jacob & Esau/Nemesis both have the capacity to appear as a smoke monster, and also inhabit others’ dead bodies? I’m starting to believe that the early Christian sightings were actually Jacob, helping Jack. And the later ones (beginning with Christian’s appearance to Claire and then to John in the cabin) are Esau/Nemesis — with the express intention of manipulating John to get a body so he could find his loophole.

But again, the question of when the ash was broken would give us a big clue about this.

-And of course, where the hell is “home” for Nemesis/Esau?

And a few thoughts:
I would bet that we’ll see Juliet in LA – X Alternareality — most likely having a coffee with Sawyer and offering to go Dutch.

This one is a little farther out, but: Will Jack heal John and somehow Locke will return to play a pivotal role in confronting Nemesis/Esau, thus earning his redemption in the process?

In fact, the question could simply be asked “why did he let Ben stab him?”. Ben himself asks this question too, and interestingly the MiB is a bit dismissive of Ben’s question, stating arrogantly than Jacob just knew he was beat. That just doesn’t ring true though because he could have run away to Richard or fought back or something. He also could have not antagonised Ben with his own dismissive “What about you?”.

So here’s a theory (and don’t we just need another one). I think Jacob wanted to be killed. I think he wants to end his centuries long struggle with MiB, and I think he is using MiB’s search for a loophole to somehow trap and destroy him. The struggle ends when they are both dead. Jacob dies now and the plan he laid out is enacted to defeat MiB.

Which leads us back to Ben. Jacob needed Ben to kill him as part of the plan, which is why Jacob didn’t resist. And Ben, for his part, might be playing everyone, including the MiB. We already know he lies and manipulates. Jacob may have come to him with the plan to kill him. This doesn’t necessarily mean that all of Ben’s reactions (such as seeing Locke alive) have been faked. Perhaps he wasn’t told all the details. Maybe he was just told to kill Jacob at a particular moment. I see possible redemption for Ben by the series end.

That ep gave us a lot to think about, quite a lot of curtain drawing back, but not much Wizard of Oz behind it.

The first big reveal is that there’s a new timeline in which 815 doesn’t crash, and obviously events differ as soon as it passes the “crash moment”. But there are a couple of noticeable differences that set it apart from OUR 815.

The first being the fact that Desmond is on the plane.

The second, unless i’m going insane, is that Hurley is happy and believes himself to be the luckiest man in the world. I’m pretty sure he’s just coming back from being knocked back by the wife of the guy who gave him the numbers. Not giving him the sympathetic ear, the understand, that we know he wanted. Plus, I’m guessing someone who says that nothing ever bad happens to them wouldn’t have that mindset if their mansion had burned down, or their chicken franchise had been hit by a meteor. So I’m guessing those things haven’t happened in this timeline. But it’s understandable that things relating to the numbers might change if the timeline has changed.. We’ll get to that later.

Anyway, the next reveal we have is that in the divergent timeline we see that the island is underwater, which would’ve really got the Atlantis-theorists going giddy if it wasn’t for the inclusion of the Dharma huts, and the Dharma branded shark. Which means that the island submerged at some point after the 70′s, fairly congruent with the idea of a hydrogen bomb going off in 70′s…

Then we see that OUR losties are still on the island, but have moved back to the “present”. The hatch is back, albeit destroyed.

We get Sawyers “IT HASNT WORKED” hissyfit, then Juliets posthumous “oh but it has” rebuttal.

In my opinion, she’s right:

The point of the hydrogen bomb was to disperse the electromagnetic energy and change the past in such a way that it couldn’t course correct. If the electromagnetic energy is dispersed, the hatch doesn’t need to be built, Desmond can’t be there pushing the button, so he won’t fail, and 815 won’t crash.

They’ve basically committed a grandfather paradox by going back in time and stopping themselves crashing.

Grandfather paradoxes are exactly that, paradoxes, they can’t exist in a simple way, you can’t go back and change your own past.

So how does the universe cope with the idea that the person who’s changing reality won’t exist?

It forks.

So the losties HAVE to still exist, in their own timeline, because otherwise our new losties couldn’t land at LAX.

I still don’t really know why the island would end up underwater, but maybe that’s just what would happen after a subterranean h-bomb detonation.

Okay, to progress:

Hurley DOES see dead people, fair enough, no idea why, but we also have no idea why miles can hear them, it’s just something that seems to have happened.

One of my theories is solidified, you see Montands body in the temple, but not the bodies of the other French people. I was initially convinced they were dead and possessed, but that was before we learned that smokey doesn’t need to possess the corpses, he just takes their visage.

So, if he had been doing that, they wouldn’t have had bodies when Danielle killed them. So perhaps they WERE still humans, just… converted somehow. There seems to be some “truth” that converts/recruits people to the cause, we meet the stewardess from the plane again in the temple. She doesn’t seem bothered at all by Jack and co turning up, she acts as if they’re from another life or something: “oh, they were on the plane with me”, as if she doesn’t think of herself as one of them anymore (which she may not be).

The whole water resurrection thing I can’t interpret yet, the “water of life”, “fountain of youth” idea has been floated before, to explain Richards immortality, but i’m not sure what i think about that.

I imagine that Sayid coming back to life of his own accord is either because of “course correction” or (my preferred explanation) because of Jacob touching him in the past. We’ve been shown Jacob touching certain people in their past, and we were shown a scene that very much appeared to be Jacob resurrecting Locke (after being thrown out of a building) by touching him on the shoulder.

We’ve also, going way back to the beginning, seen proof that fake-locke IS Smokey – “i’m sorry you had to see me like that”. We’ve also seen proof that the ashes protect against smokey (so the cabin encirclement was either to keep him out, or keep him in). We’ve seen that smokey killed those people without judging them – his normal modus operandi. Perhaps because they were “soldiers” or followers of jacob, he didn’t need to judge their free will. We also saw that shooting him didn’t seem to have an effect, he was fine when he reappeared, so we need to wonder here why jacob died. Was it because he was killed by someone who did so out of pure free will (Ben), or was it because he was in his original body? I don’t really believe the latter.

Okay, to proceed. His exchange with Richard is FASCINATING. “Nice to see you out of those chains”. My original Richard theory, way back, was that he was a slave from Egypt, being carried on the Black Rock. Richard being “in chains” is fairly congruent with that notion. I’m not talking ancient Egypt, just that Egypt was (if i understand correctly) used a lot in the slave trade, and he particularly looks like he could pass for Egyptian in a pinch.

We know that the man in black was wandering around when the Black Rock arrived, so if the last time he saw Richard was when Richard was in chains, it must’ve been after that point. So I assume richard was on that ship. But after that, some event must have occurred that either took the man in black out of the loop (imprisoning him perhaps), or forcing him to remain in smoke form (where he can’t exactly interact with people).

Either way, this is the first conversation he’s had with Richard in a long time (at least 50 years), which is troubling. Richard hasn’t been hiding, and we know the smoke monster was wandering around in the 70s. Like i said, troubling.

We also get to see that there’s definitely a conflict of sorts between the temple-others, and the man in black. They have counter measures (the firework alert, and the ashes) ready to go. So why does Jacobs death suddenly mean that they’re a target? Was Jacob protecting them? hiding them? Or did the RULES of the conflict forbid the man in black from hurting Jacobs followers. Rules which are made irrelevant after jacob dies. We know that the others made a truce with Dharma, perhaps that isn’t the first truce they’ve been involved in…

I think I’ve covered everything save for the events in the divergent timeline – which i don’t think are important yet.

I also haven’t mentioned my utter frustration at Sawyer for not taking Juliets body to the temple.

Really looking forward to reading other people’s theories. Again – apologies for the length of this!

Thanks all

Aaron in Scotland

The Losties appeared at the hatch that Desmond and Locke had blown up. Not the 70′s construction site but the old blown up hatch years later in 2007. That was kinda important and established very early in the episode.

like Walt

Walt is part of the loophole.

that there would be two physical entities of sayid bodies?

when the man in black took john lockes form
there were 2 bodies, the man in black’s/dead locke

so if sawyer is jacob then why would he wake up IN sayid’s body and not appear in another form outside of his body?

just thought that was interesting

I have some comments that haven’t been covered above (there’s no point repeating the well-made points or questions made by others above). I noticed in my season 5 finale rewatch that Smokey/MiB actually does kill Jacob. He’s not dead when Ben stabs him. Dying, sure, but not dead. He dies when MiB kicks him into the fire. Thus MiB does kill Jacob, which seems against the ‘rules’. My guess is that this is an oversight in the construction of that scene but considering the importance of the ‘no killing Jacob’ rule, it seems a bit careless.

Smokey seems to have rules of who and how he can kill. If he didn’t, you’d imagine that he would kill everyone on the beach now that Jacob is dead. We’ve already observed that he seems to be able to kill so-called ‘bad’ people. You could also argue that he can kill people who try to kill him (e.g. Bram and co). This explains Richard’s desperate cry to not shoot MiB when he emerges from the foot as Locke.

My feeling is that the temple is MiB’s home. The hole in the wall is not the temple per se, which is why Smokey can be in there when the French team arrive. Perhaps he spends time in that hole because he longs to return home so he spends a lot of time outside its perimeter. Why is Jacob keeping him from the temple? Perhaps because MiB will use its powers for ‘evil’. Perhaps because Jacob is just being a jerk (okay, that might be unlikely).

Has Ben ever been to the temple (apart from his boyhood trip)? Does he know about those Others? My wife and I felt that these Others were perhaps other Others that Ben doesn’t even know about. This is hard to reconcile because we saw Kimberley Joseph’s character (the airline hostess) after her kidnap when Sawyer and Kate were in the bear cages. But these others seem to have an existence independent of the Otherville Others (and presumably their predecessors through Widmore and Eloise). Richard might thus work with both groups on behalf of Jacob. It’s also highly likely (perhaps even obvious) that the temple Others are Black Rockers with immortality like Richard.

Finally, here’s my out-there prediction that will make me seem amazing if accurate but easily forgotten amongst these hundreds of comments if incorrect. Desmond will be on the Black Rock, perhaps as captain. I don’t understand this prediction or why I’m even making it. There’s just something about his specialness, his Britishness, his military background, his sailing prowess and his hair that makes me think that if they wanted to blow our minds when they get round to explaining the Black Rock, having one of our characters on it is a sure way to do that.

The pan-cultural nature of the island expanded greatly in this episode. Far eastern influences were apparent from the bonsai-working sensei to the seemingly authentic, ancient Chinese bamboo fireworks. But the inner temple itself seemed configured like a central American pyramid or ziggurat. Add to this the Egyptian colossus and hieroglyphics, the Angkor Wat exterior of the temple, Jacob’s Greek patterns, etc and you get the idea that the island was the source of all culture that broke apart and scattered into the larger world. The island is Atlantis!

A few of my favorite Lost-isms could be found in this episode.
“Open the door”
“Wake up”
“Not yet”
I think “open the door” will prove especially meaningful in the end game of Lost. I somehow think it will be part of the survivors’ exit to salvation. Sawyer suggested that confinement on this rock (synonym for the famous prison) was punishment enough for Jack. And who really has been trying to bring them all back and keep them there? AJ has. AJ was the one who had Richard convince John as he skipped through time that he had to bring them all back. What was the one thing AJ admired about Locke? That he realized how pathetic his life in the outside world was and accepted his fate on the island. Jacob wants them to carry some knowledge or growth away from the island and change one of the core variables. AJ wants to confine them there so that it can all be brought to an end.

Finally, smokey is reticent to kill, but will if necessary. Why Eko and not Ben or Locke? It all seems to boil down to who is “amenable for coercion.”

Defend the island.

I believe that when the bomb went off, Jin says that they time traveled, we can assume that everyone is now in 2007.

Great episode, loved the direction they took with the story lines. I think they were brillant to have the two timelines… I think that instead of diminishing the characters it is giving us, the audience, a better opportunity for character development, whether it is redemtion, free will or destiny. I think that by having the audience be more aware of the history of these characters that the characters themselves, it affords the writers a great opportunity for storytelling. Bottom line is a still care deeply for these characters and am very interested in what will be happening to them in either time line.

Here are a few observations :

* I loved ascertive Hugo;

* Was Juliet time tripping a la Desmond when asking to go for coffee with Sawyer? Will it happen in the future or ALT time line?

* Jacob seemed really distrubed, shocked, derailed by Sayid’s condition when he first sees him. He had not forseen that.

*At the airport when Jin gets taken away and the female guard asks Sun if she knows any English… she addresses her as Miss Paik. Does that mean that Sun and Jin are NOT married in this time line. So, she may very well be telling the truth about not knowing any English.

*It will be interesting to learn more about Flocke/MIB and Smokey. Chronologically speaking, first he was the MIB, we then see Smokey appearing around the Island and finally we learn that Flocke = MIB = Smokey. Ben told us that he knew how to summon Smokey but could not control it. Like the Temple, the Barracks needed to protect or keep Smokey out. Is no one on Smokey’s side? Was Jacob keeping MIB/Flocke against his will?

Ahhhhh, so many possibilities for great storytelling, and I have absolute confidence that Damon and Carlton will give us a great ride to the finish.

Also when juliet says “it worked” is she now off the island and living in the sideways flash? And it worked meaning she’s off the island, or perhaps she just means that shes dead and when you die, you get off the island?

When Jacob died, his spirit went into the spring which colored it dark.. as Sayid was drowning, he gulped in water, which was Jacob’s spirt

Ben and Locke are half-brothers. Look back and follow the path of their “common” mother

Ben and Jacob are working together, with the goal of destroying MIB. Ben is conning MIB and everyone else with a superb acting job.. like he did when he first met the Losties. Except.. he was actually smarter than we thought. He was supposed to kill Jacob.. in order to advance Jacob’s strategy of destroying MIB.

The two time-lines will merge into something that is part of each.. the Island experience will seem like a real dream after they land in LAX

I recommend watching it. Aside from seeing Ryan & Jen’s shoutout, you see some nice behind the scenes footage.

This sound isn’t an accident and I think we are being told something about how we are flashing. Clearly this is more sideways from one timeline to another. I thought it was a very nice touch.

My related question is about what we’ve heard in seasons past. Did we here a crescendo when flashing back then a decrescendo when jumping back to the present. Assuming we did have this sonic mirror image, then was this presented to us as a clue during the first flash forward at the end of season 3. In other words does a crescendo always mean forward and a decrescendo always mean backwards? I’ll have to break out the DVDs and see if this holds any water.

If it does, does the sound we are hearing now tell us anything beyond the somewhat obvious that this is neither a flashback nor a flashfoward.

Thanks for the podcast.

Ernie

Right? I feel the same way!!!

I really enjoyed the episode and am looking forward to the rest of the season. It looks as though we will be getting a ton of both character and mythology. Good times had by all!

Comments

I think that the underwater scene was so fake-looking and stupid. It was worse than the fake submarine.
Anyone remember around Season 2 when some of the Losties are hiding in the bushes and they see a group of bare, dirty feet walking by? I think that it was the “Other ‘Others’ ” if that makes any sense. I really don’t get those people behind the temple.
So many questions have been answered – to some extent – in this premiere. We now know the purpose of Ilana and her groupies, the ring of ash (Did y’all notice someone sprinkling ash around the real temple once they had heard that Jacob was dead?), what or who Smokey is, where Zach and Emma went, what the temple is, why Richard brought Ben there. Again, these questions are only half answered. There’s still so much reasoning to why they have happened for us to truly understand them. (Okay, rambling muchhh?)
I was soo disapointed to Desmond on that plane. I’m sorry.
I can’t help but feel cheated that there’s two alternate timelines. Like, its WAAAYY TOO LATEE for them to be having something that important when theres WAAAYY TOO MANNNY other questions to be answered. I ended up loving the episode, but I think that it’s still a little too out there.
Uhhhggg, I hate being patient.
Soory, Knives Monroe, but I think Sayid IS Jacob, or at least not himself, which sucks cuz I loved his character. Also, did y’all notice the Season Six Promo Poster, based on the Last Supper? Sayid is in the Judas spot. Also, under the table is a skull. Hmmmm. I definately think these are important.
It sucks that Juliet is dead. I really hate Jack and Kate. They’re such losers, they belong together.
So what Juliet said when she died, like something about meeting someone for coffee or whatever, and then IT WORKED?? Hmmm. I think that she and Sawyer will meet up in an alternate timeline. They better.
I also strongly believe that Claire and Kate will get to be friends, and then she’ll give “Goober” to Kate so they can continue pressing buttons in elevators together.
I’m very interested in Richard now. CHAINS?? (I’m thinking Blackrock, darlings.)
Gosh, smokey is a real *****.
I think that: The reason Widmore was banished was because he found out about the “Magical Fountain”, so now he wants to find it again.
And what about the rules he and Ben had, ehh?
Anyone remember the Hurley Bird? Will we find out what that is ever???)
And what about Christian n’ Claire?
What happened to Rose n’ Bernie when the bomb exploded?
Jin and Sun are in the same time period now. REUNITE ALREADYYY!!
Magic Box?
Skeletonzzzz???
Anyone remeber those dolls Jack found in the pond/water fall thing near the caves in season 1?
That white tennis shoe perched percariously on a bush waaaay back in the good ole’ Pilot?
EEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPP!!! Okay, i went a little crazy. Just had to get it outa my system.
So many questions, so little time. ta ta for now.

- the girl from tallahasee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKcKtjrL5bc

On another note, I also think the spring in the temple is somehow tied to Jacob. The water looked almost red when we first see it, perhaps symbolizing Jacob’s death. What is so significant about water when it comes to Jacob and Man in Black/Smokey? In season 5, we saw Ben pull the plug on an ancient drain in his basement to summon the smoke monster. Is this a coincidence?

Ryan & Jen – thanks for all your hard work, can’t wait to hear your thoughts throughout the season.

::rips shirt::

Here are a few things picked up from the HD ultra slowmo replay
Desmond do is wearing a ring in his left hand
In addition, he is reading a Salman Rushdie book (title not visible)
Revive Said’s voice was similar to his usual voice and accent, only that scrappy and mushy voice of someone waking up…

I havent time to compare the seating in 815 to episode 1
but is seems obvious that it is not similar
although Rose do is sitting next to Jack
Could it be that the consequences of these differences (no coffin) refer to the differences between A316 and O815 ? Hence the variability of results…

Questions
Why is False Locke so deliberately take care of wiping Jacob’s blood with a torn Jacob cloth instead of on his own clothes ?
Anyone noticed the Kate eye-opeing scene ? Any special meaning, since it was Jack’s eye we have been seeing open after an explosion ?
Anyone noticed the moss (or seeweed) grown on the base of the statue foot ?
It obviously had been under water for a while…

Predictions now
Maybe Kate will wind up with Aaron anyway (after becoming friend with Claire)
The Lax Losties are in 2004
They have 3 years to reach the Island in 2007
Why wont they board A316 again ? and have a different scenario play out… because of different flight content (like Locke not being dead)
Locke not being dead would result in forcing MIB having to choose another body…
Somehow we can see stories play out
like Jack fix Locke Hurley being conned by Sawyer
and dont forget that there should be plenty of people looking for our Losties in 2004 like Bram and Ilana & Heloise and Widmore

Cant wait to hear the posdcast

We know Smokey has killed and Smokey=Flocke so he’s perfectly capable if need be. He just doesn’t want to reveal himself lest that awareness lead to a loophole of his own.

Ah! It just occurred to me that the word loophole may have some extra significance. I was just thinking of it in the most cliche terms, but perhaps the literal looping of time has opened a hole in the magic box.

In “Room 23″ when Ben was trying to brainwash Carl, the TV said “God loves you as he love Jacob.” This is a reference to the book of Malachi in the Old Testament. Malachi ch. 1 verse 2-3 (God speaking): “I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.”

Boom. Done.

I COMPLETELY agree!!!

Regardless, it was a great episode. Need to watch it over to get full appreciation.

In quantam mechanics, every possible outcome exists at the same time as I understand it. What we measure is really only the probablility of a single outcome. I’ll have to delve back into a brief history of time or Kaku’s “Physics of the Impossible” (a good choice on audible.com if they carry it.) to see what might happen if alternate universes meet.

@ Carol. Loved the cloth idead, but it would mean it would have to be carried back in time to the cabin to be placed there so it could be found by Jacob’s praetorian guard. (Ilana, Bram, & co.)

Put me down as decidedly against Sayid as a reincarnated Jacob. For one thing, this theory comes from the belief that MIB has possessed bodies to achieve his incarnations. I don’t think this is the case. In the most obvious example, Locke’s actual body is lying on the beach. Also, Ben underwent the same ordeal and he seems to represent only himself, a man with a choice of whether or not to kill the one who watches over us all.

Come to think of it though, is it not Locke’s lifeless body that at this very moment literally rests in the shadow of the statue?

I figure the island sank when the bomb went off.

Which means all the influences of the island disappear from that point forward.

Michael probably died in the car accident, so who knows what happened to Walt.

Not enough information yet… can’t wait until the next episode!

I hope they answer: Why does smokey sound like clanking gears when he gets mad?

I loved the episode and especially the music. I felt like I was on a rollercoaster as the camera panned from the plane, through the clouds, and into the water. This was not because of the CGI, but because of the awesome percussion Michael Giacchino scored for this scene.

One point I haven’t heard mentioned yet: Was anyone else surprised that Jacob recommended that they enter the temple through the same hole where Montand lost his freakin’ arm? At least in the 80′s, smokey was able to enter this area. I don’t think the temple can be MiB’s home for this reason. I also felt that Rousseau’s team’s sickness came from entering this hole, and it was actually “smokey” calling to the team using Montand’s voice. How do we reconcile these two uses of the temple entrance?

I agree that Juliette must have had a glimpse at the LA X reality when she commented that they should go dutch for coffee. It reminded me of “I can’t have chocolate before supper” from Charlotte. I have a feeling we’ll hear about Juliette’s coffee later this season. That would explain why “it worked.”

I worry with the juxtaposition of Locke’s dead body to Sayid’s before his resurrection that they’ll try to somehow revive the real Locke. As much as I loved this character, I feel he’s done. I sort of like “Dead is Dead” and “Whatever Happened, Happened.” I guess those concepts are suffering a bit at this point.

@Nuckinfuts – good catch on the Donovan comment.

That is why I wondering about the cloth found in the cabin by Alana, if it is the same one cut from fake locke after Jacob died. That would mean that it already had happened before.

I think I should stop trying to come up with theories so early, this could all change next week.

When fake locke was talking about Locke’s sad life and what he was thinking when he was dying, made me so sad, Locke was so earnest about making a difference and instead he got played by Fake Locke and Ben. At least in the flash sideways he seems happy.

Oy.

DONOVAN: Your thesis is a bit neat. The wild card part which is unpredictability — run the same test 10 times — you’ll 10 different outcomes. It’s what makes life so wonderfully…

DESMOND: [entering] Donovan!

DONOVAN: Case in point, who could have known that a drenched Scotsman would appear in this rotunda?

Desmond knows this physicist Donovan but his background did not suggest wealth / scientific study / college / etc. …I wonder if Donovan knew Faraday? I wonder if they were playing their own games with Des.?

1- If the man in black was the smoke monster all along, and has been flying through the temple throughout all these seasons, why are the people of the temple afraid of him now?? Is it because Jacob was protecting them from him this whole time?

2- Why have Juliet survive that crazy explosion if she was going to die anyways? Do Damon & Carlton enjoy making us suffer??

3- Does Desmond remember what happened before the bomb, being that the rules don’t apply to him?? And where did he go after Jack came back from the bathroom??

I think Richard being in chains was a reference to him being a slave of Jacob. The man in black broke the chains of his servitude when he had Jacob killed. Can’t wait to see what happens next!!

Thanks, Cat. I’m still trying to digest these two episodes. I’ll rewatch both tonight with my wife who has to go to bed at 9:00 p.m. to get up at 5:00 a.m.

The biggest question for me is “why the parallel universe?” By that I don’t mean why does it exist. It exists because of what Juliet did which caused a new branch in time to spring forth at that moment in 1977. In that universe the island sank, hopefully slowly, since I’m hoping we see some of the Dharma folks in the new 2004 world, especially Ben.

Why are the writers/producers showing us this parallel universe? What are we to make of it other than it being either an interesting or for some folks boring distraction from the story on the island that we’re all most interested in. It has to serve some purpose in the overall series and we only have a scant number of episodes to learn what.

Will the folks in the parallel universe live happier lives? Will they live similar lives ending mostly in unhappiness? Will they somehow come to remember their island universe and use those experience and lessons learned to live more fulfilled lives? Will the two universes somehow come back together or will the folks in one of them die while the others live?

At this point, I just don’t know and I can’t even begin to guess.

My big questions from my first viewing:

1) where is the “home” for the smoke monster/Flocke/MIB that he wants to return to? How come Jacob was able to leave the island but his enemy seems confined to the island? If he is confined, who was the Christian that came to Jack in the hospital? Was that Jacob? Have both the Man in Black and Christian taken the forms of other people to advance their agenda?

2) how did Sayid come back to life? Is he still the same Sayid or different? Is it even Sayid at all?

3) who really is good and who really is evil or is there even a clear answer? I’m starting to suspect that Jacob is not all that good and the Man-in-Black/Smoke Monster not all that bad. He gave Bram a chance to just leave the statue’s interior. He only killed them when Bram shot at him. He kills after judging people (most of the time.) On the other hand, Jacob’s minions aka the Others killed many of the folks on Oceanic 815 in cold blood and for no obvious reason. His people are not all that good when you think about it.

4) has Sawyer now totally lost all of the humanity he had gained before Juliet’s death. Will he now be so overcome with anger that nothing can save him?

5) are we to believe that Richard has never seen the smoke monster in all of the years since he first met the Man in Black when he, Richard, was in chains?

6) were there really 2 smoke monsters all along – one the Man in Black, the other Jacob?

I think I enjoyed the two episodes. I’m just not that sure yet.

I watched the “cliff notes” edition then the season premiere. Must say reading here really helped me to “connect the dots” and see the hidden nuances of the show from your comments!

Thanks, I will be back now that I’m a fan too! Hopefully more to contribute next time

New Question: When Jack gave his name to the temple others, it looked liked they paused for a minute, and that his name was more important and they recognised it. Did anybody else catch this?

I have to find the time to watch this episode again and keep in mind what you all have said. (If I can remember it all! whew)

@Yann – are you in France now? Did they show it there at the same time as here or do you watch it on itunes or something? Just curious because I thought they might delay the premiere in other countries.

They blew the Island up in 1977 even though they flashed back to present day WE DON’T know what repercussions that has had on the island and it is probably the cause as to why the Island sank. As you can see New Otherton was built, So the REAL question is not why the Island sank, but WHEN did it sink?

1) MIB, Eloise Hawking and Charles Widmore are in cahoots.

2) Christian Sheppard was also inhabited by the MIB, not Jacob. He, Christian, did after all help Locke go back to return the Oceanic 6 to the Island. Which gave him his “loophole.”

3) Eloise Hawking said to Jack that Dead Locke would be taking the place of his father on the Agea Flight. Locke, as we know, became MIB on his return to the Island.

4) I think Widmore is in on it too considering how much he helped Locke try to recruit the others back to the Island.

@Russell – I too am thinking, why “LA X” and not “LAX”? Could the “X” be the Roman numeral, 10? Then what about the “LA”? OR Could it be a four letter word, third letter missing? Doesn’t even have to be an English word! An acronym maybe?

I liked how they did the “WHAT-IF THE PLANE HADN’T CRASHED” story-line. I think they’ll go the whole season with that, and then end of the season with the plane NOT crashing.

Juliet’s last words were, “It worked”, which is exactly the opposite of what Sawyer and Jack believed. The Losties will EVENTUALLY get off the island like the PLANE NEVER CRASHED, so everyone is back on the plane.

By the end of the season they’ll already have shown us in all the episodes the “WHAT-IF THE PLANE HADN’T CRASHED” so we’ll know how everyone’s story comes to a conclusion (good or bad). Juliet would still be dead, since she wasn’t a Lostie that was on the plane, etc.

WHAT WOULD THE FATE OF THE LOSTIES BE?

CHARLIE will die form a drug OD rather than herorically saving the group on the island.

JIN will go to jail and Sun run off on her own into the US instead of reuniting on the island and having a baby.

LOCKE will take JACK up on his offer of fixing his spinal injury.

SAWYER pursue HURLEY and try to scam him out of his winnings that he bragged about.

KATE will be on the run from the law…and be caught or not…

BOONE will do whatever it is that he does.

Also, when JACK & LOCKE parted, Locke smiled in almost the same way he smiled to Walt on the island before opening his mouth and revealing an orange peel.

WHERE’S WALDO?

SHANNON: So where was Shannon (Boone’s sister) on the plane? She was on the plane and the island. She sunbathed, hooked up with Sayid, and then got shot.

DESMOND: And why was Desmond on the plane for part of the trip? He arrived to the island by boat…. or did he?

AND… WHERE’S WALT?????? HIM AND HIS POP WEREN’T ON THE PLANE THAT I COULD SEE.

Remember Amy’s dead husband was turned over to the Hostiles for some “recycling” reason. Sawyer buried the Hostile guys — no redemption value there. Sawyer also “made it a point” to bury Juliette. Maybe it could be called an interim life, indentured service, or even slavery. Hey, Richard Alpert — how does it feel to be free of your chains?

Was the brief turbulence on Flight 815 Christian Sheppard’s casket being removed from the plane while in-flight? Oceanic has no idea where the casket is.

Ben, in providing Locke’s corpse on flight 316, set up the Man in Black to take the bait (assume Lock’s body) to draw him out into the open for his final battle with Jacob (Locke vs. Sayid ).

The Nightline piece is here:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/secrets-of-lost-9733658