Jacob falls. Jughead blows. Fade to white. Season five of “LOST” was a dizzying mix of sci-fi time travel, classic character flashbacks, and island mythology. All in all, a great ride, and one that has us hanging on for the sixth and final season in 2010. Though “The Transmission” is going to take a break for now, there’s too much to talk about to simply disappear into a magnetic pocket. We invite you to sound off on the season we’ve just seen, and continue the conversation with us and other listeners.
One More Show?
Depending on your interest, we may be able to assemble a “listener special” between the finale and Comic-Con in April. Of course, we want you to do all the hard work. You can share your thoughts here and via e-mail to lost@hawaiiup.com, but we’d love it if you’d contribute your voice via the new LostLine at (815) 310-0808. For best results, let us know who you are and where you’re from, and briefly answer one of the following questions:
- What did you think of Season 5 overall?
- What was your favorite moment… or least favorite moment?
- Top unanswered question going into Season 6 (and your favorite answer)?
- Favorite lines, quotes, or quips?
Even if a “listener special” doesn’t materialize, the comments here should offer great food for thought. Watch this space for news as Comic-Con approaches! As always, thank you for your support and participation. It makes everything worthwhile.
Oh this is gonna be fun.
I guess I’ll be one of the first to throw myself in front of the truck, but I think I was one of the few that didn’t LOVE season five. I am just as much of a LOST fan as the next guy, so for me, admitting this is like coming clean in a AA meeting.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to press the submit button without answering some of your questions. But, in my opinion, I thought this season was somewhat inconsistent with its storytelling.
In many ways, I kind of wish that they had used the time-travel storytelling at the end of season four. The beginning of season five would pick up in the 1970’s and we would progress from there. The top of season five was so fast-paced and and all over the place, literally. And then all of a sudden, they returned to the season 1-3 narrative and everything came to a grinding halt. This made the 70’s Dharma times seem almost…boring, when I know they most certainly weren’t. We had just been spoiled at the beginning of season five with a faster narrative.
One could argue that you can’t really compare this season to any other because the narrative was drastically different. But this time last year, in the final part of season four, every episode was seriously getting better and better, the plot was picking up with faster storytelling, and they were answering a lot of questions. It seemed to be the opposite this year.
Season five was, by far, not a disappointment nor was it the best season of the series for me. If I had to pick a favorite episode, I’d go with “The Incident” or “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham”. I wasn’t too particularly fond of “The Little Prince”. But I felt like I had a lot of favorite moments throughout the season, rather than a favorite episode. My absolute favorite moments were when the pieces fell into place, story-wise. Great character moments like when Kate gave away Aaron, the final scene in Locke and Ben’s episodes, and Sawyer’s relationship with Juliet were outstanding.
As for questions…what was in Hurley’s guitar case? I could have sworn we would have returned to the moment when the other outrigger was shooting at the Left Behinders, so I’m anxious to see how that piece of the puzzle falls into place. And, of course, all of the questions brought on by the finale are pretty interesting, as well.
Again, I love this show and I REALLY enjoyed season five. But, in my opinion, I felt like this entire season felt like one giant “transition episode”, as some might call it. Cheers!
my least fave moment is seeing locke dead (the incident) and thinking that he may be REALLY dead. that would be so unjust. it would suck!
One more show please! =)
Waiting 9 months for LOST and the Transmission will be brutal, but it gives me something to look forward to!
Overall I thought season 5 was the worst season for the following reasons.
Characters – in “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham” no one wants to ask Locke were the island went? Kate says nothing about Sawyer but tells Locke he never loved anyone? Who wrote that episode? it was sooo bizzare (in a bad way).
Old School LOST – One season left and nothing tells me that Walt, the numbers, Dharma vids, or maybe even Aaron will play any significant role in the outcome of the show.
Time Travel and Parents – so much of the story lost its gravity when people started telling their past selves what to do and now everyone is everyone’s brother or mother or something. With all the family ties and TT you can basically say anything now.
Spoon fed info – “thirty years here”, “three years there”, “ten minutes left” . The spoon fed info is ruining this show, flashbacks and flashforwards were great because you had to try and piece it together yourself.
I still say a terribad episode of LOST is better than any show.
Have a great summer Ryan and Jen, thanks for the hard work =)
Loved!!!
JIM HENSON’S LOST BABIES !!
LIL’ Kate was so dead on
LiL Miles
LIL Sawyer
LIL’ Juliet
LIL Daniel ” I can maaaaake time.”
we only needed a LiL Hurley
unanswered????
1. the whole idea of the losties’ mysterious hidden talents/powers went by the wayside after new characters with more obvious talents and powers started to show up.
2. Walt was so special that he was stolen and raved about… but then that was left alone
3. It’s still unclear what the relationship of the two islands are. Are there always two moving together? does one move and the other does not? We were focused on one island then they threw another one at us and never mentioned it’s properties. Now that it’s back in the picture I expected answers.
problems-
only Miles and Hurley come close to talking like people. ( And they are dumbed down way too much.) Most characters now speak only in plot points. So, no one has a conversation that lets you know that they are old friends, or happy, or sad. All you get is uncomfortable relaying of half information. Last episode Sawyer and Juliet show up in the woods all beat up and no one asks about that. Kate shows up to the sub to deliver the plot point of Jack having a bomb. The fact that the person whose idea it was, knows what to do and why has been killed by his mother should be important to everyone’s decision making process… unmentioned. Locke gets off of the island… no one freaks out, asks how, or says anything that reads as people that shared a scary amazing mysterious event on an Island that vanishes and you can’t escape from and made it out alive. Everyone speaks in plot points.
the last ep showed people trying to change the past and alter the future… at the same time, they bounce to the future—
in the same episode!!… •showing you• that it did not work!! You can’t do both in the same episode
New crackpot theory. Jacob is Aaron and Anti-Jacob is Charlie Hume.
Just e-mailed my answers, but here they are :
> What did you think of Season 5 overall ?
A whole new experience – clearly unique compared to the 4 first season. The whole time traveling extravaganza was a very clever way to revisit and give new perspectives to the Island’s mystery.
> What was your favorite moment… or least favorite moment?
Favorite moment : Faraday’s killed by his own mother. It was sad to lose such a great character, but with this one and the Charlotte’s death scene, Jeremy Davies pulled amazing performances. And the Jacob revelation. Introducing the biggest LOST question mark in this casual yet incredibly mysterious way was just great.
Worst moment : Any lines pronounced by the hideous french-speaking-with-a-canadian-accent cast. I’m french, and it was pure torture. I’ve never been so glad to see Smokey murk a character than the one who got his arm torn out. Plus the cute french girl who play young Rousseau managed to misspronounce her own french name (“I’m Daniele. Daniele Woossaw.”). Awful.
> Top unanswered question going into Season 6 (and your favorite answer)?
Basically, how can Jack and friends come back from an H-Bomb explosion ? And who really is Jacob nemesis ? And what about dead-Locke ? And…
I have absolutely no answer. And I’m so happy with that.
> Favorite lines, quotes, or quips?
“What lies in the shadow of the statue ?”. Or : how a eight-word question can create a whole world of mystery. Pure LOST genius to me.
that theory helps with their speaking modern day english. if they live out of normal time.
Just for the record, there was broken glass around Locke when Jacob came to him on the ground 🙂
This is a great idea. I actually thought while listening to your podcast that a kind of wrap up podcast would be a great idea and voila!
Ok, you guys have done it. Like Jen said after a second viewing and listening to the podcast has actually turned me around. I have come to like The Incident more although the romance stuff still put me off. I will watch some episodes again and come back in a few days with more comments, questions and/or ideas.
I prefer to write though instead of leaving a voice message, listening to my own voice made me realize why once a long time ago some Japanese friends in Tokyo left the karaoke club “-“.
Mahalo…..
JB, are we sure they weren’t SUPPOSED to be French-Canadian? 😉
Favorite quote: We’re not going to Guam, are we? -Frank Lapidus)
>What did you think of Season 5 overall?
For me, season 5 was very special. But that’s probably because I only started watching the show last October – I was ill for a long time and watched all 4 seasons in a row. Story arc wise it’s hard to compare the seasons, because they are very different. Lost started out as a psychological drama with some paranormal elements and it’s come a long way. So far, S1 and S4 were my favorites, although very different. But the experience of waiting a whole week for an episode and not knowing what happens has been mind-blowing. (Because I cheated from season 2 with Lostpedia a little:P)
>What was your favorite moment… or least favorite moment?
Favourites – Sawyer picking a flower to give to Juliet. John Locke coming back to life (or so I thought).
Least favourites – all the romance stuff in the finale. The third episode with the introduction of Jughead – I couldn’t have cared less. Hydrogen bomb, blaah.
>Top unanswered question going into Season 6 (and your favorite answer)?
I’m not very curious about Walt, but there are a few things I expect from season 6:
– Seeing the real John Locke in flashbacks and somehow rehabilitating his purpose of existence. I’m really not satisfied with how it turned out.
– Seeing development in Sayid. I’ve loved his character but I was very disappointed when he started working for Ben again. So, he meets Jacob, his wife gets hit by a car and then he just becomes a hitman before accidentally returning to the Island? Kind of meeeh…
– I want to know what the numbers mean. First, Rousseau’s boat picked up the transmission of the numbers. Leonard’s pal used the numbers to guess the number of beans in a jar (and won money). I know number 23 is an important number in Kate’s life – the Australian farmer got 23 000 dollars in return of turnung her in.
– How did the Black Rock get into the middle of the Island and why?
– Some deeper history between Jacob and Anti-Jacob
– Claire, her mom and Aaron – what happened?
– I want to see Eloise Hawking again
– Does Ben remember Sayid shooting him?
– What’s up with Christian Shepard? (LOVED your idea that he’s actually alive, resurrected by Jacob)
– Smoke Monster – what is it? What kind of consciousness does it have?
I don’t have any favorite answers, I love having different ones:D And then being surprised with the right answers.
>Favorite lines, quotes, or quips?
Lapidus: We’re not going to Guam, are we?
Chang: I need you. – Miles: You do?
Locke: So the real question is… why wouldn’t you want to kill Jacob?
Ben: I’m a pisces.
Jack: What about the rest of the people on the plane? – Ben: Who cares?
Jack: How can you read? – Ben: My mother taught me.
And my least favorites were delivered by Sun and Juliet:
Sun: HAVE YOU SEEN MY HUSBAND?
Juliet: Live together, die alone.
Overall, S5 have been great for me both for Lost and for Transmission. The Lost Nerd in me has Found a home:)
great season, boldest. excellent acted
If you are interested in reading Flannery O’Conner over the summer, I would suggest you start with her short story, “A Good Man is Hard to Find.” This is a classic text in college and university literature classes and is an amazing piece. Many of her stories are deeply influenced by her Southern roots in both setting and characterization. This story can be found in a collection of six of her very best stories in an anthology by the same name.
– An English Teacher in Gig Harbor, WA
-What did you think of Season 5 overall?
I loved the first half but was less thrilled with the last 4 episodes.
-What was your favorite moment… or least favorite moment?
Jack is willing to set off a nuke and kill a bunch of people so he can get another chance with Kate? I always thought Kate was the most selfish person alive. Now I see they are perfect for each other.
I loved the Juliet/Sawyer pairing. Too bad stupid Kate messed that up too.
-Top unanswered question going into Season 6 (and your favorite answer)?
How will Sayid live? Cuz he’d better!
-Favorite lines, quotes, or quips?
‘welcome to the meeting, twitchy.’
everything with Hurley & Miles
> JB, are we sure they weren’t SUPPOSED to be French-Canadian? 😉
@Melissa : were they ? I’m not sure Quebec has ever been mentioned about Rousseau’s past. For the sake of history, I’d love to believe that, it would make their dialogue much easier to deal with !
(But trust me, it’s not only the accent, it’s the whole dialogue delivery who seemed not natural at all – but I don’t wanna focus on that for too long, it really is a minor detail compared to the rest of the show)
Hey guys,
Well, I still have some things I want answered in the final season…
Assume that when Daniel, Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, Miles, Bernard, Rose, Charlotte (before her fatal nose bleed) and of course Vincent were time traveling on the island, then EVERYBODY who was still on the island was also time traveling. So why haven’t the Others of 2004-2007 run into the Others of 1974-1977?
Why does Miles have the ability to communicate with the dead?
Why in 2004 do pregnant women die?
When will we discover Alvar Hanso’s role?
Since the REAL crew of Dharma Initiative are actually dead why did they still get an air-drop of supplies (season two I think)?
If Ethan was born in the Dharma Initiative how and when did he become an Other?
Where are Cindy and the kids from the tail section?
Why did only Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Hurley go back to 1977 and not Locke’s body, or Sun…or the rest of the passengers and crew of Ajira 316?
Love the podcast.
PS. It may be a prop “malfunction”, but the New Kids lunch box from “Born to Run” in season one is not the same as the one from “The Incident”
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1490-24.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-450-495.html
The sticker placement is different. More of the box is showing at the top of the one that was dug up. Probably just a blooper.
-What did you think of Season 5 overall?
Hi all,
Im a huge huge fan of LOSt and i follow your podcast.
Season five was ok. I agree that season 1,2 and 3 where quite slow in the tempo of the overall season but I think Season 4 and 5 have too many elements and things happening in so few episodes.
From a story point of view I think is boring that now the whole thing is turning supernatural. I like the “a bit of supernatural with some scientific explanation” thing but now u can justify everything with supernatural and good and evil thing.
I dont like the characters turnied out to be puppets.
I dont like that there’s been a crescendo mistery about Jacob and then they show us 4 flashbacks about him all in the same episode, it’s not so believable.
They should have insert the character much before, maybe in a flashback in season 2 or 3 and than…ta-dam..the big reveal. That normal guy who bought the lunchbox to Kate was Jacob!
But like this, in this way looks like a patch, something made up last minute….
-And the Incident thing?
I can see that the show lost ratings and maybe ABC shrinked the budget cos that scene was a Xena-like mess. low cost special effects, a pitt with a coulpe of people around….everything looked so staged, so fake…
-And the Incident itself…I mean you dont talk for 30 years about a couple of metal bars flying around…
-And what about Jack running with a nuclear bomb in his backpack? Are they for real?
I know that in fiction there is some things you have to buy and accept but that unbelievable even in the LOST universe.
-And jack has been thinking about his daddy issues, find his dad thing…what happend with that?
He wants to blew the bomb cos he got dumped by kate and he screw it up?
We didnt see so many special effects in season 5. The cut the budget for real unfortunately.
I had the fear and suspect they were going to clean up the whole bunch of characters from season 2 to 5 to have a season 6 with the main cast.
so bye bye Faraday (silly the way he got killed, crazy that cuse and Lindelof cut the scene where he shows jack the differece between a small stone in a pond and a huge rock. A huge rock can make a difference. That was belivable explanation of changing time…and the cut that away…whatever), bye bye everyone who is not jack, Sawyer, kate, sahyd and Hurley.
They almost turned up to be the caricatures of themselves.
And now?
17 episodes to explain everything?
Mmmmm…..
what about the numbers?
The pregnant women?
The kidnapping of children?
Walt?
The powers of walt?
Widmore?
and the father of Sun?
And what happened to ethan? He was born then nothing…
and the mistery of Radzinsky’s death?
Are they going to fix all this with 17 episodes?
all those things were so os important and now there is no trace of those.
We have been watching a lot of things that now are useless for the whole story.
Im really disappointed and i was a bit embarassed for how bad were some scenes (i mean…how hard is to re-do a scene in the same way? locke falling with no rain of broken glasses? Faraday crying in front of the tv then ,a frame later, goes to open the door and he has long hair all of a sudden….come on….)
and the ending of the Indicent was so predictable….
Thats the classic cheap thing when there is no ideas anymore…
Im so disappointed.
But it looks like I’m the only one….
MOUSE TRAP
All I can say is Mouse Trap. Because way back in season 1 “Deus Ex Machina”, we see Locke explaining that in Mousetrap- you start with all your pieces off the board… and bring them on one by one until the trap is set… and then POW (or something like that).
From Wikipedia:
Deus Ex Machina: literally “god from the machine” is a plot device in which a person or thing appears “out of the blue” to help a character to overcome a seemingly insolvable difficulty.
I think we now understand that everything on the island is an elaborate game of Mousetrap between Jacob and AJ/Smoke Guy/ Man in Black… whatever we call him.
Jacob has been “trapping” AJ (via the ring around the cabin, etc) over time. AJ gets free and finally finds Lock- who for him, appears “out of the blue” to help overcome seemingly insolvable difficulty (how to kill Jacob).
Mousetrap. I said it again. LOL
Love this show- love your podcast just as much as the show… and can’t wait for more of both!!
Cheers!
Frank in NYC
Enjoyed the episode overall but there were elements that I found hokey.
Although I know many enjoyed the final scene between Sawyer and Juliette but I found it to be to much of a Titanic rip off. I personally like Juliette, a whole lot more than Kate so my opinion doesn’t stem from a personal dislike of the character.
The resolution to the Locke story line was a bit disappointing. As a Locke fan I thought it was necessary for him to be special and inherit the keys to the island kingdom. What I really wanted, and I know I share this sentiment with a majority of Locke fans, was a little hope for Locke. Of all the characters his life as been the worst and if anybody deserved a sliver of happiness or peace it was John Locke.
After the episode was over I felt an overwhelming sensation of disappointment. It is my opinion that the story could easily have reached this point years ago.
Cian-
“So why haven’t the Others of 2004-2007 run into the Others of 1974-1977?”
-If I remember correctly, Richard and the Others weren’t time traveling with the Losties. In the first episode of season five, it was Locke who vanished in front of them. So Richard and the Others were continuing on their normal timeline. It was only Locke, Miles, Jin, Juliet, Saywer, Charlotte, Faraday, and the 815’ers that were bouncing through time.
“It may be a prop “malfunctionâ€, but the New Kids lunch box from “Born to Run†in season one is not the same as the one from “The Incident‒.
-I thought the same thing, too. But I think we’re supposed to smile and assume they’re the same lunch box.
I would like to know what happened to all the children that were stolen in Season 2 — and did Juliet’s successful handling of the birth of Ethan change the fertility issues for the island?
Sorry…I put this in the podcast blog by mistake.
Does anyone have thoughts about how our different factions communicate with the main characters? There has already been a lot of speculation that A.J. (Esau) may be related to the Smoke Monster, since he’s already taken on the form of a dead person.
What about the dreams on and off the island? Here are some examples in no particular order:
– Kate’s dream with the mysterious phone call “The island needs you,†and Claire saying, “Don’t you dare bring him back.â€
– Locke’s dreamwalking experience in the sweat tent with Boone.
– Eko’s dream of John and Yemi at the beechcraft site.
– Claire’s dream of John and Aaron.
– Charlie’s dream about Aaron, Claire, and his mother.
– Walt’s dream about Locke on the beach.
I’ve always felt these dreams came directly from the island. Could the island itself be an entity separate from Jacob, A.J., and the smoke monster?
Another Prop error?
Take a look at these 2 pictures:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:The_Statue.jpg
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:5x16_Statue_ruins.png
Now you ask yourself: Brian, why are you showing me these?
All this time we have only seen the LEFT FOOT of the statue.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Footboat.jpg
Why all of a sudden are we looking at the RIGHT FOOT?
Did anyone else notice this and what does it mean?
Heaven forbid I mention the “A” word (alternate universe).
~ THE Pemstar Initiative ~
I loved season five, and it’s occurred to me that I hope we haven’t seen the last of 1977. If your Jacob-touching theory is right (and it seems so to me) then that would at least strand Miles (if Juliet is gone) in a time not his own, and I am not ready to be done him just yet. I’d also love more time with the Eloise and Charles of this point in time– this is clearly close to a pivotal point in their lives, and seeing more of them would probably shed a lot of light on the whole infinitely confusing issue of Island Leadership. (Not to mention that I think those two actors have a really interesting chemistry that ought to be explored a little more.)
And then, of course, I remember that we have 17 episodes left… anyone want to start a petition for a longer season?
I so badly want to contribute to discussions on the finale but there is so much to say and so much to think about and I don’t have the time to do it justice. But I need to say something so I can close off Lost-related thoughts from my mind and get back to the real world (and my real work i.e. that which I am actually paid to do). So here’s some answers to your questions. Thanks for the excellent podcasts throughout this season.
What did you think of Season 5 overall?
Outstanding. Absolutely outstanding. But also incredibly flawed. I noted a couple of weeks ago that the story had outgrown the episodic format required by television so we were ending up with story threads starting and stopping and starting again a few episodes later, and whole characters appearing and disappearing for large lengths of time (Desmond being the best example but many others too at various times). So structure was a problem. There’s also the problem of melodrama in the lives and stories of some characters (you know who I mean) and the point, raised earlier or in the previous blog, that characters’ motivations are serving the plot, rather than the plot emerging from character motivations. This, I fear, will only get worse as they try to write a story that gets them to the conclusion they have already written (a problem I felt plagued the final season of Battlestar Galactica too).
But can we be critical of Carlton and Damon on this when so much of Lost is so wonderfully brilliant? They aren’t trying to write a hospital soap or a by-the-numbers cop show. They are writing a complex drama on the nature of space and time, religion and science, good and evil. I mean, the fact that we’ve had a storyline in two timeframes throughout most of this season, and the time travel elements haven’t totally collapsed in on themselves, it a testament to the great story-telling we are witnessing. You only need to see the mess that is Heroes (and even the end of Twin Peaks) to know that this stuff is hard to write. Yet here we are, five seasons in, with millions of fans nitpicking and reviewing all the details, and the worst we can find are trivialities. The lunchbox looks different. Or Charlotte’s age is wrong. If you cannot tell, I am totally in awe of what the creators of Lost have achieved with this show and I am willing to forgive the melodrama and narrative problems because Season 5 was always going to be a problem season because of the grand sweep of the story. I think we have to acknowledge that they did a fantastic job given the circumstances.
What was your favorite moment… or least favorite moment?
I think this had to be in LaFleur when, after Locke disappeared down the well, someone asked how long they would wait for Locke to get back, and I think Sawyer said something like “as long as it takes” and the screen faded to black and the words “three years later” appeared on screen. It was like a mini-game changer and opened up many possibilities for those characters, which we then saw played out throughout the episode, including a culmination with Sawyer and Juliet together. This was one of my favourite episodes.
My least favourite moments were the many times that the Losties in Dharma (mainly Jack, Kate, Hurley) appeared on screen and did basically nothing. It was like they were simply treading water to the finale and it would have been better if that screen time was used to tell a different story.
Top unanswered question going into Season 6 (and your favorite answer)?
I have a question that has bothered me since we learnt that the others were a group of civilised people who enjoyed book club meetings. My question is, why were the others so hostile to the plane crash survivors back in season 1? Considering they are all friends now (which happened too fast for my liking, considering all the killing that went on in the first three seasons), it seemed so unnecessary and resulted in the loss of many, many lives. Why not make friends with them since they are a group of random people who would respond to kindness far better than violence? It makes no sense to me. I had always thought that perhaps the others knew something about the Losties that made them suspicious or perhaps that some Losties were hiding something but neither of these seem to be the case. I would like something satisfactory on this otherwise it feels like contrived conflict.
That’s the main question for me anyway. Here are some minor questions.
How will Hurley record the numbers? And how will Richard see the Losties ‘die’? (Both these questions imply that we will see the aftermath of the incident at the beginning of Season 6 and that our Losties will still be in 1977)
How did the Dharma Initiative find the island and set up experiments? (I think that Jacob must have brought them there, just as he did the Black Rock. Perhaps Anti-Jacob used their experiments to create a time-loophole to kill Jacob)
Why did Widmore plant the fake plane near Indonesia when that was clearly well off course from the Sydney to LA flight path? Why did the world buy that explanation, or at least not query why the plane was so far from the flight path?
In Miles’s first flashback with the old lady and her grandson’s ‘ghost’, why did the photo on the wall next to the stairs change?
How does Jacob get around? We know that only about a week before Ben kills him, he is giving Hurley the guitar case outside the police station (I know, it feels longer but the plane trip, the crash and Locke visiting the temple and Richard only took a few days at the most). What does he do at home all day anyway? Loom? Is loom even a verb?
Why did they take Walt? What was he doing all that time? Why did they release him?
Lastly, favorite lines, quotes, or quips?
Any one of the lines from the Chang/Hurley exchange a couple of episodes back. Apart from the Empire Strike Back thing, it was the only time that any of the character exchanges had had fun with the whole time travel thing. “So you’re 46 then?”. And Hurley saying “there’s no such thing” when Chang asked him about the Korean War. Very, very funny.
Before finishing up, I have to get this idea out. On the season finale podcast, Jen and Ryan noted the use of “my friend” by Anti-Jacob and how this phrase had been used by Ilana’s people. Sometimes I think it’s the small clues that can be most interesting. I think there’s a chance that the Others and Ilana actually work for Anti-Jacob, and that perhaps they aren’t aware of it. Richard, for example, says that Jacob made him immortal but perhaps he means Anti-Jacob, who has been pretending to be Jacob (using his cabin and whatnot). Or maybe Anti-Jacob is also called Jacob and we are witnessing some kind of split personality, the good and evil in all of us personified in this instance as two separate people banished to an island. Perhaps there will be a third force (the Shephard family?) to resolve the conflict between the two halves of Jacob.
Even if I’m wrong (and let’s face it, we’ve all been wrong pretty much all the time), I at least think there’s something about our assumptions that is fundamentally wrong. That’s why we’re all having so much trouble reconciling all the parts, particularly around Jacob, the Losties and Locke.
One final advice for everyone. If you want to enjoy next season, be prepared to jettison any theory that does not match the unfurling evidence. If you stick to a theory and it doesn’t pan out, then you may be disappointed with the outcome, which in itself would be a great disappointment. Perhaps for season six, we need to spend more time just going along for the ride and enjoying the stories as they unfold.
The most frustrating think for me is to hear all of the fan blow back for the season finale. My personal feeling is that we can wish something would happen but we can not be upset with the direction that the show takes. I think people forget that this show is art and being such must either be enjoyed or not enjoyed. No would would rip an music artist or painter the way Lost is getting ripped right now. For those that don’t like the direction of the show, just stop watching, that is always an option. Personal I am along for the ride, wherever they want to take me I will go.
I loved the season finale, I thought it did a great job of bridging the real life and the mythical eliminates of Lost. I am looking forward to season six.
Overall Impression of Season 5: Up and Down. I often had to rewatch an episode so it could grow on me. Episodes were uneven sometimes; disjointed. Yet moments of each were so outstanding. I’m still a bigger fan of Season 4 than this one, though.
Favorite Moments: LeFleur; Terry O’Quinn & Michael Emerson’s performance in The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham; Ken Leung’s performance in Some Like it Hoth; Hurley & Miles’ exchanges in Whatever Happened Happened.
Least Favorite Moments: The lack of Desmond. The writing (story arch) for the female characters. I think they are fine actresses, especially Elizabeth Mitchell (and Evangeline Lily showed much more range this year), but they are not much more than plot devices. I’m with Jen on this point.
Unanswered Question: If Jacob brought these people to the Island, why? What is it about them that will matter? Did he pick them to help them grow individually or did he pick them to help save the world or resolve the long standing conflict with AJ?
Favorite lines, quotes and quips: Anything snarky by Sawyer or Miles or Ben. The humor on the show is very clever. Loved the buddy scenes between Miles and Hurley.
Season 5 was excellent but I felt the motivations of Jack, Juliette, Kate and Sayid for the last few episodes were weak. To a certain extent it seemed the plot was kept so busy so that, for example, Jack’s willingness to bet everyone and everything on his intuition around the bomb, and his stated motivation for the the same seemed weak and unsupported by his normal actions.
Actually let me be honest and state that Kate’s inconsistancy is… Kate through and through! But Juliette had been very logical in her choices, but as the Incident approached, she became as unpredictable as Kate can be counted on to be.
It actually makes me wonder if their actions were driven, and motivations provided, despite the “choice” that Jacob is keen on speaking of (as prevalently mentioned as Ben’s “we’re the good guys”), by our chessmasters.
I wonder if Jacob required his own personal sacrifice, and the actions of the Incident in order for the endgame to go the way he hopes.
Season 6 should be sensational – as long as the climax isn’t as disappointing as the Stand’s was, a literal deus ex machina. Given Darlton’s King influence – who knows where we are headed!
@Giorgio, I am very upset with season 5 for many of the reasons you mentioned. I hate to say it but don’t hold your breath for anything more regarding Walt, Preger chicks, manipulation by the others, Ethan,
I think some of the things a lot of us loved about LOST are done with.
Sorry all my post sound like I’m a hater, I’m just sad the direction LOST went this season =(
Here’s a theory that just popped into my head — it seems that the statue has been confirmed to be Taweret. In ancient Egyptian history, Taweret was seen as a deity of protection in pregnancy and childbirth.
Ben told Sun (paraphrased) that the statue was like that when he got there, and Sun basically accused him of lying.
What if the destruction of the Taweret statue was more recent, and is what caused the pregnancy-related problems to arise?
Pete from Rockford, that’s a nice idea about the recent destruction of the Taweret statue but my personal feeling is that the statue must have been destroyed prior to 1977, otherwise Sawyer, Miles, Jin, etc would have seen the statue during their three years in Dharma. Now, it is still possible that they did see it and they just didn’t talk about it (always a possibility on Lost). But I also think back to Miles’s comment when he did see it when they were flashing through time. He mentioned that they must have gone waaaay back when they saw the statue. Again, he could just be mistaken but it seemed to me to be information to the viewer that this was in the distant past. So my feeling is that its destruction is further back but obviously there isn’t much evidence on this either way.
I’m not going to get too much into why I liked or didn’t like this season. It is all so subjective. Suffice to say I enjoyed Season 5 for the most part. There wasn’t nearly enough character stuff to satisfy me and too much plot driven action to the point where it was just touching all the bases for me. That said, there was a lot of kick-ass stuff going on.
My favorite moments were anything scenes with Michael Emerson Jorge Garcia. Emerson because he is just so fun to watch. How this man does not have an Emmy? And I love Jorge, plus his scenes invariably have him asking all the questions we would like to ask. Plus his interactions with Miles are priceless. Have to give a nod to Josh Holloway who has really stepped up his game this season. He really deserves an Emmy nod as well.
As far as unanswered questions:
Who the hell is Richard (Ricardus) Alpert anyway and how old is he?
Is Jacob really dead (I think not)? Is Locke ( I think so)?
What do the numbers really mean? And how/why does Hurley wind up reading them on that looped message?
Why does the statue have 4 toes?
What was in that serum anyway?
I think you guys may be right when you said everyone will wind up popping back to the present after the “bomb goes off”. But I have a slightly different theory. Everyone seems to think that the bomb went off, but I’m thinking that maybe it didn’t. The flash we saw may have been the Island flashing as a result of the pocket of energy being released. We didn’t really hear an explosion so much as we saw that ubiquitous flash. So perhaps they will indeed flash forward to join up with the rest of the old gang.
I am also thinking about this from the perspective of this is a major network TV show. I think they have to figure out a way to get all their big stars back to the same place for the final season. And I’m sure their pretty fed up with dealing with all the flashbacks, flashforwards, ad nauseum as much as we’re tired of following along.
I will be back here again to give my tuppence on the questions posed by Jen and Ryan.
What I want to do now is quickly sum what season 5 was in my mind. In a word, good, perhaps great. No previous season engendered the excitement and delight for me, and overall I am very PRO #5. What made it so was less individual parts, portions, or lines, than the incredible creativity at work. Our losties have had quite a time of it, and the writers have not hesitated to take this show way beyond anything previously attempted. It was a good season in relation to the other four, and a great season in the context of Lost vs. Television Wasteland.
I am not a TV guy, and will snidely punt on any issue involving comparison of Lost and another TV show. I didn’t watch the other TV show, whatever it was. Lost involves so many hours of exposition that it cannot be compared to movies except to note the obvious production values, acting, and writing that have set it apart on the tv platform. More on the writing shortly, though. So, as far as ‘entertainment’ is concerned, Lost only can be compared (in my mind) with literature, and it is an apt comparison in that the writers/creators are doing much the same in the creative process.
It cannot be ignored that the writers now appear influenced siginificantly by S King’s The Stand. Alas, as has been stated, for better and possibly for worse. The Stand is an epic novel that I seriously enjoyed and the parallels with Lost are too many to enumerate, and beside the point. The ending of The Stand has been mentioned here, and I share the prayer that the similarities end now, and go no further, as the book’s ending *sucked*. I am getting that hollow feeling again as I watched and rewatched ‘The Incident’. It is a ‘game-changer’, as Darleton claimed. Casts season 5 in a whole new light that demands rewatching, and possibly the entire show to this point. Wise? I agree with my community fellows (here) that the show is the show, and liking or disliking on the basis of theories or preconceived needs on the part of the viewer is unfair. BUT, no matter where the writer’s take it. HOW WELL they do it IS well open to criticism. Parts of the season (5) were poorly done, and the finale had some real weaknesses. The lack of substantial character interaction (mentioned above) is telling. Our survivors do mostly speak in plot points at this juncture, as it really stands out when they don’t. They are acting like pawns, stripped of real identities that the show spent so much time developing, and that did draw us in from the beginning. To me, that is poor writing, and I am not criticizing the direction or content of the plot or story. I reserve judgement on the whole Jacob thing. Lost excelled without it, and I do not find myself sold on the plot idea at this point. They will have to sell me, and the finale did not do a good job of that. But they have sold me in the past, and I confess to being an initial naysayer about time travel, and still loved this season.
I refuse to posit theories, as I will be wrong, and I tire of the endless fascination of guessing where the show is going. I am fascinated by where it (we) have been, and what it means to us. That we are here, doing this, speaks volumes about how well we have been treated, and I am only human in wanting it to continue for the final season. (prayer=please don’t blow it)
@ Steven in Bathurst: “Even if I’m wrong (and let’s face it, we’ve all been wrong pretty much all the time), I at least think there’s something about our assumptions that is fundamentally wrong. That’s why we’re all having so much trouble reconciling all the parts, particularly around Jacob, the Losties and Locke.”- Oh, you are so right on!
“One final advice for everyone. If you want to enjoy next season, be prepared to jettison any theory that does not match the unfurling evidence. If you stick to a theory and it doesn’t pan out, then you may be disappointed with the outcome, which in itself would be a great disappointment. Perhaps for season six, we need to spend more time just going along for the ride and enjoying the stories as they unfold.”- YES. again. BUT to be uncritical of the quality of the effort is to sell the value of OUR time, OUR interest, OUR devotion, very short. I refuse to do that.
Back later.
AND please do, Stay Lost!
One more thing.
Anyone who believes you can core out a hydrogen bomb, and carry the backpackable core, and acheive a detonation of a ‘nuclear device’ (either down a shaft or by hitting it with a rock!!?!) has gone beyond suspension of disbelief and is onto STOOPIT!
Do you think they build em the way they do just to make em hard to pack?????
@mrpemstar, I just looked at the photos of the foot of the statue, and they both look like left feet to me.
As far as a “blooper” though…..did anyone else notice the changes in the blood around Juliette’s mouth after she had fallen in the pit?
I will respond to the blog/feedback about S5 in its entirety but wanted to share these two quick thoughts.
Ryan and Jen……..LOVE the podcast. I enjoy it as MUCH as I enjoy the show and look forward to your podcast with the same enthusiasm/anticipation as I do the show “Lost.” Thanks!!!
I thoroughly enjoy listening to this podcast – professional, entertaining, and accurate! thanks!
What I’d like answered:
What’s WALT’s story? Why didn’t the others want him? When will he come full circle?
How will Aaron and Claire come back in?
Why is my nose bleeding?
How did the DI come across the island in the first place?
Where’s the Hanso foundation?
I’m sure I have some others… but I’ll have to think.
@Stefani:I think I can answer to two questions. Walt scared the Others by his power, that’s why they were not so displeased to leave him go. It can be seen in a mobisode “Room 23”.
How the DI came across the Island is due to 2 things. One they found out about military going there in the 50s (and we can only guess how they found it but I guess “Jacob” or Luck can be called), and second: them being top scientists (even if it didn’t really appeared through those episodes) they managed to calculate how to reach it.
These are my top 5 of 5.
#5-Daniel’s Reaction to the Death of Charlotte.
Their romance built gradually and credibly over the past two seasons. They shared a love of subtle devotion that never found the time to blossom. Charlotte watched over an ill Faraday and helped nurture him back to full capacity. Daniel protected her every chance he could, especially in the flash to 54 when he offered an open declaration of his love as a surety for his actions. Unfortunately, by that time, we could already see the end coming for Charlotte. It was heartbreaking when it finally arrived, only shortly before the displaced pilgrims managed to reset the wheel. Charlotte recalled too late and Daniel vowed to defy Fate as they embraced in an emotional farewell. The stuff of tragedy.
#4 When the Smoke Monster Carried Montand Beneath the Temple.
They didn’t do the story of the French team justice (another checklist item to be hurried through), but we did get here the first presentation of the Temple and the Cerberus vents that lead to the smoke monster’s lair. We see the cognizant, passover fog sever Montand’s arm and drag him down to an uncertain fate. Was Montand deemed benign by the island’s security system so that all would be well if his companions would just kindly join him in the chamber below— or was he possessed and transformed as the distraught Rousseau perceived? The heightened action and the potent mix of revelation with new uncertainty makes this a classic Lost moment.
#3 Sayid Shoots Young Ben
This may not have surpassed the flash forward as the most surprising Lost moment ever, but in may ways it’s the most viscerally shocking. At the very same moment, it manages to both make perfect sense and cause deep revulsion. Did our Sayid, a man of charm and vast personal resources, really just gun down an innocent, victimized 12 year old boy? I can’t think of another place you could see such a twist and still dare to call it genius.
#2 When Locke Tells Jack That his Father Said Hello.
Again, you could see the anguish and shock immediately hit Jack in a far more devastating way than Sawyer’s triumph via dirty tricks ever could. What was the one, the only thing that Locke could have said to any of the 06 to bring them back? “I, too, have seen your father walking again, after death, on the island. “ Locke gave external validation to the man of science, made him believe again, and set all of them on an inexorable path back to the island. It’s definitely a true crisis or pivot point for all the dramatic action that ensues.
#1 Jacob and his Enemy Meet on the Beach
Yes, there is a great and powerful Oz. The presumed and often cited guiding force behind the island, the spinner and weaver of Fate, is more than a concoction of cynical leaders or a figment of the imagination. He does in fact exist. Not only that, but he has a mortal enemy, one who practices the dark arts with a howling anger beneath the perfect politeness of a colleague. “Pleased to meet you….†The Black Rock has just come upon the horizon, filled with the heritage of the Others, Magnus Hanso, and perhaps Richard Alpert. They represent another chance (or to us, a far earlier one) to advance the cycle toward an ultimate redemption or again prove the inherent corruption of the physical world. And then light and dark part ways to pursue their own designs. This was the pinnacle of the season.
@Rich: nice list
Trapped at the Bottom of a Deep, Dark Well in Season 5
#5 Jacob Gives Jack….an Apollo Bar??
It appears Jacob visits the elected few at turning points in their lives. We see this quite clearly with young Kate and Sawyer. He meets them at a critical juncture and gives them just enough of a push so that they follow the binary branch of Fate he has chosen. He even helps them create the talismans that define their lives and that they carry with them on their quest to the island. Furthermore, he seems to grant Locke and Sayid the gift of life. So where is he in Jack’s hour of need and what boon does he bestow? Answers: nowhere to be found and a consolation candy bar. This segment would have been much improved if they took out the browbeating Christian and substituted a mysterious observer in the OR (Jacob) who offered Jack the count-to-5 trick as a suggestion along with a reassuring touch on his shoulder.
#4 The Life and Death of Caesar
“No time to say hello, goodbye, I’m late, I’m late, I’m late.†I was just beginning to get intrigued by this Caesar character, portrayed by a fine actor who conveys this whole package of intelligence, mystery, and fierce determination. They gave him 5 minutes of screen time and then disposed of him with a shotgun blast to the chest. The shock value of this deed was greatly minimized because we never had time to get invested in the character. In contrast, the death of Frogurt, after even less screen time, was a coup de grace because of how we felt about him. Either do these characters justice or use their precious screen time for the many characters and stories that do matter.
#3 Desmond’s Message for Ms. Hawking
This visit was totally pointless. Desmond didn’t aid in bringing the O6 together or convey any essential information about how to get back. All he did was say “Faraday needs your help,†(to which Eloise practically said “D’uh) and provide Ben a perfect opportunity to murder Des’s whole family despite the ample warnings from Widmore. Stupid all around.
#2 Jack says Losing Kate is his Reason for Detonating an Atomic Bomb
In the history of self-centered overreactions, this has got to be the Jughead of them all. Jack’s willing to risk all the lives he once would have gone to any length to save because his heart aches. Unlike so many previous characters who at least appear to be permanently gone, Kate is right there for him if Jack can summon the courage to begin anew. Instead, the writers have him take an absurd leap in the service of a plot point so that they have some way to manufacture The Incident. Not believable. Maybe they could have had a visitation from Christian/AJ to sway him and that might have made more sense.
#1 Kate Says Finding Claire Is the Reason She Came Back
I’m just going to reiterate what I said previously. I don’t get Kate’s motivation at all. She came back to the island for….Claire??? Aaron got lost for two seconds in a supermarket and that makes her feel vulnerable enough to abandon her well-established life for a quest she doesn’t even believe in? They didn’t even play up her “running away†trait which would have at least been plausible. Her resistance to returning was dramatized so heavily that we were led to believe that something really must have rocked Kate’s world to convince her to go along and what they came up with just didn’t deliver
Merci, Yann.
The second list is harder to accept, but if Lost has taught us anything, it’s that you will pay the price if you stray from the truth.
To anyone who thinks the hydrogen bomb plot device was absurd because Sayid was able to carve out a tiny piece: Every hydrogen bomb has an atomic bomb trigger. It cannot go off without it. Sayid took the “trigger,” which is a thermonuclear device itself. The size was about right but in reality there is no way the rock could have set it off–however, who said Lost is reality? Party on!
• What did you think of Season 5 overall?
Beginning 7 episodes = Great, Last few episodes=good, Finale=Great again.
I loved the time traveling gambit at the start of the season to give us a plot device for telling the past of the island and Dharma. I would have died if they did the traditional ‘flashbacks’ for these stories (let’s be honest they got old in S3) and I absolutley loved the finalie, but somewhere in the middle it got very by-the-numbers with answers and had very little character development. (Jack was a no-show along with Kate returning to plot device of scapegoat).
• What was your favorite moment… or least favorite moment?
Fav = Hurly and Miles discussion about time travel.
Least = Every single love-triangle scene, does anyone care anymore?
• Top unanswered question going into Season 6 (and your favorite answer)?
Question: Are they really going to leave John Locke as the ultimate ‘chump’ and leave him dead without any Charlie-like redemption story?
Answered: Jacob’s reveal as an actual person not one of our castaways from the past/future etc.
• Favorite lines, quotes, or quips?
Sun: What happened to the statue?
Ben: I don’t know, it was like that when I got here.
Sun: Am I really supposed to believe you?
Ben: …Probably not.
I also devised a new show structure to ensure Season 6 pleases the highest number of crazed Lost fans like myself: Choose Your Own Adventure!!
Just think about it! We all think we can do a better job at writing the show than Darlton so why not give us a shot at it? They will record multiple scenes for each episode and at crucial points a screen will come up with ask questions like;
Should Kate continue to annoy Jack? Text KateDumb.
To have Kate accidentally fall into an abyss text FinallyKateIsGone.
Then after the live voting is tallied (you only get 10 seconds people so make it count) the show continues. This way we the viewers get to co-direct how the show ends! I’ll take my commission money how ABC!
@Yann from France: I did see the Webisode: Room 23, and I agree that the others were scared of Walt’s “Powers” BUT I still don’t feel like he’s done. I want him to have some larger story arc – His vision of “people being around you, John, and wanting to hurt you” I think will be in the season premere of Season #6 given what has just happened… but I’d still like to see Walt return in some way (though I have no idea how it would happen!)
I also have thought about Cindy & the kids from the tail section. Though they will be much older, I wonder if they can bring them back in some way. There is a group that was sent to the ‘temple’ before the time travelling, and I’m not sure if we have seen them yet.
As for a quip from this season, I like the “I’m a pisces” line. And I still like Hurley’s “am I talking to a guy in a wheelchair” to the nurse when Locke showed up- then his reaction following. I love Hurley. I also want him to have a larger character role, than just being a ‘comic relief’ character!
@Stefani: Sure! I want Walt back also! After the way Michael has been handle in season 4 (ho how I hated it!) I want him back but not to be a pawn 5seconds and then killed… A la Daniel this year also might I add.
Next year opening scene will be key: First season, Jack near the beach (the losties are on the Island). Second season, Desmond training in the Swan (there is some technology on Island by mad guys living alone to “save the world”). Third season, Juliet listining to CD cooking (there is not just some retro technology on Island… there is actual nomal “actual” life). Fourth season, Hurley driving around in the futur (there “6” of them who have left… but who, how?). Fifth season, Pierre Chang in the 77 met Daniel Faraday (Ok… after expending the circle around the crash site in space, they did that in TIME!).
Now what is going to happen after expending space start to the whole world, they expended it to time… but now that space and time has been done. What is next?
Well I retake my theorie that time has changed, look at the last scenes from a season and the start of the other:
season 1 ends on the hatch beeing blown. season 2 opens on the hatch.
season 2 ends on the losties are taken by the others. season 3 starts by the others and how they live.
season 3 ends on Jack in the future wanting to go back to the Island. season 4 starts on Hurley mest up in the future.
season 4 ends on well… on Island: the Island desepearing, off Island: Jack and Ben wanting to go back with “him”. season 5 starts on the Island moving in time, and Jack and Ben wainting to go back with “him”.
Now… how did this season ends? The losties wants to detonate an hydrogen bomb to change time and AJ making Ben kill Jacob. So how will this start? If they can’t expend the start of this season thru space and time how can they? I think I have an answer. But it’s just a theory.
I just finished listening to your podcast for the Incident, and I loved your comments,..both of you! I wish I had somebody to watch this show with. It helps a lot to have another person to discuss the episodes with,..I am envious ;).
Besides that I loved the ending of Season 5, I too have many, many questions, and have read many of them posted here, but there is one question that has been bothering me, and not asked.
What happened to the little kids who were walking through the jungle, one of them was dragging a beat-up Teddy bear? Nobody has ever discussed who they are, and what their significance is the the story.
I hope the kids are not just another item to fall by the way. Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks Ryan and Jen for the wonderful podcasts. I am now putting you two on the top of my “who to listen to first” podcast list! Mahalo 🙂