the link is http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recap#t=162212&d=201648

I too, find Radzinski interesting in that I think he will be left in his own version of purgatory.

I, also, am not convinced that Rose and Bernard are Adam and eve- partially because of the timing- except if they end up flashing way back again and staying there…unless that is one of those plot discrepancies like Charlotte’s age.

And finally – I, also, like the idea that the shoes are significant- I have said this before…but it was reminiscent of the Ruby Slippers that one needed to wear to be a leader, or have special gifts in the land of Oz.

@Yann From France:

“Did anyone noticed… Walt’s dream as occurred:
John Locke is on a beach, in a suit surrounded by people who wants to hurt him (well the other him)”

I have wondered about this dream myself- because Walt is special and sees the future- but I am not sure he was surrounded by people who wanted to hurt him- I think it is still yet to come. I liked what someone said on the podcast about how maybe Jacob will take good Locke’s body and we will have our “pod Locke” and our “Good Locke” on the Island at the same time creating all sorts of confusion and mayhem and a great acting role for Terry O’Quinn.

@Michael- I read your post a few times- and I am not sure I get it- but I find it really interesting- you are saying that Aaron- Baby Aaron – Claire’s baby- was actually Jacob? I don’t get that…but what you say about protecting him etc I think is very significant…there is clearly some bloodlines here- some lineage- that is obviously important.

and finally- a few people have brought up Ecko which is really interesting- how he didn’t see smokey as beautiful and how his “brother” killed him but the line “I am not your brother” seems very significant. I suppose if I was Anti Jacob and I had this long plan to Kill Jacob that involved using John Locke then I would want to get Mr. Ecko out of the picture too- since he often questioned John and was a strong character who had turned his life around and was really making all of these “good choices” so I would want him gone so I could use the more flawed characters to do my will.

…and really- finally- what about when people did not die until they were supposed to- like Michael and Charlie…and even when Rousseau didn’t bite it when her husband tried to kill her – instead she could kill him….

ok…I am sad we may not get to 500 posts since there is a new section in which to post…but we made a great stab at it!

Thanks R and J and all the posters- this was a fun season to watch Lost with all of you!

Ok everyone… I listened to this one again a few weeks ago and I guess you NEED to listen to it:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast/March_21,_2008

Now what do we learn? Yumi: monster. 3peoples are “undead” Yumi,Christian and… well… Horse.

So, undead means monster. So… now who do we have who sure is “undead”: Alex. I guess everyone agrees on this one.

But what about Locke, is he “undead”? The thing is: Yumi and Christian’s body diseapered before the monster took their form. What about Locke?
But maybe the monster tricked everyone by removing the dead bodies to make you think he was the real deal…

Love the show and would appreciate any thoughts you may have on the ‘high level’ theory!

Mahalo, Brad

I believe reincarnation plays a significant role in what is to be revealed. In Buddhist teachings, humans continue a rebirth cycle until they reach nirvana, a state without suffering. To reach this, one must part with all attachment to material things, other people and self. Once of all of these have no importance to your life and you discover the true nature of existence, your cycle is complete. The path intended to help those achieve it is, of course, Dharma. I like the irony.

In support:

- The aforementioned reincarnation anagram on the van
- Jacob’s comment that “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.” [Nirvana is the end, the rest is the rebirth cycle]
- Jacob’s comment to Ben “what about you” meaning, neither Ben nor Jacob nor anyone else has any significance to the enlightened
- The importance of how bodies are handled

It would follow that our losties were, in a previous life, inhabitants of the island. This is why Jacob visited them in the off-island lives. And I think that each character is at a different point in their “cycle”. For example, jacob visited Sayid and Hurley after they left the island once. Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Jin and Sun all met him before the island.

With respect to Jacob and AJ….I’m not convinced they are two separate people – and I think it is significant that AJ’s proper name wasn’t mentioned. I believe that whole first scene may have been a figurative discussion jacob was having with himself – the yin/yang that all of us have in us. Jacob/AJ, himself, is still not truly enlightened.

Love the idea that Locke first saw Jacob, who was “beautiful”.

And the last reason (except Pierre Chang arms)… Did any of you saw the last movie produced by Daemon Lindeloff? I don’t want to spoil it for anyone but let’s say that this guy knows how to do a reboot when he wants to do a reboot.

So far, each season (except maybe for S4) has started with the point of view of some character. Wouldn’t it be cool is S6 premiered with the point of view of AJ/Dark Locke or the Smoke Monster?

Here’s the thing about my dream -

I dreamed that we saw the Island through the “eyes” of Smokey. We saw him storm around the Island and then take from of different characters. His perspective was mind-blowing, ancient and wild.

I’m not sure if I’d even like that but in my dream it was way waay cool:)

A few comments about the last podcast. The references to friendship go far beyond just a mannerism or code word for the statue-worshippers. It’s been one of those oft repeated thematic nodes like “see you in another life.” Two quick examples. In “Because You Left,” Ben says to Jack that Hurley will be considerably easier to recruit than the rest of Jack’s friends because of his commission at Santa Rosa. Jack says, “they’re not my friends anymore.” To which Ben sarcastically replies “that’s the spirit.” Another example that occurs to me off the top of my head was when Hurley conned Sayid and Locke’s crew captured him at the barracks. I believe Ben says something to the effect of “I know it’s no good having friends if you can’t trust them.” Actually, the drink shared/the drink refused we’ve seen so many times may connect to this theme as well by being a polite offering of friendship (Widmore & the whiskey, Alpert and the OJ, tea, lemonade, milk, etc).

R & J enjoyed Ben’s line, “I’m a Pisces.” Soon it began to dawn on me that this is not a throwaway line either. Pisces, the sign of the fish. An earlier poster noted an oblique reference perhaps to Jacob being a “fisher of men” like Jesus. The use of fishing metaphor in the Bible and the astrological sign of Pisces tie together beautifully because this sign symbolized the nation of Israel in addition to its more obvious connotations. I learned in an astrology class once that the magi who foretold of the coming of a savior did so because of the appearance of a nova or great star in the sign of Pisces in the night sky. He who will save us all?

Why is Radzinski on button duty? What you need to consider is that Radzinski may be performing this duty in the swan hatch long after the purge occurs. In this case, the quarantined hatch is the last bastion and vestige of the DI. We know for sure that Kelvin remained in the hatch until 2001 AD (After Desmond). We know Kelvin mentored Sayid in the arts of torture in the first Gulf War. We know Kelvin and Radzinski shared the hatch for some time before the mad scientist quit this world. We also have some dates on the old blast door map if they hold up to scrutiny. So Radzinski must still have been there well into the 90′s. I know everyone loves to hate him, but Rad has definitely become one of my favorite characters. Compelling, I mean. He too believes he’s on a mission to change the world. I think we’re going to see remorse for the colossal mistakes he has made, isolation, perhaps madness (from the sickness), and then despair. You might have a different perspective on him at the end.

There was a comment about water keeping smokey at bay. This might apply to AJ as well. AJ tosses Jacob into the fire, an element or instrument traditionally associated with the forces of evil. Fire and Water?
It would be great if that title were intentional. I fall into the unified field camp. Every question, to the greatest extent possible, should come together in a single, elegant explanation. Everything that rises must converge.

On Rose and Bernard as Adam and Eve. I get the idea of their love and harmony making them good candidates for the pair who lived together and did not die alone in this little eden. It’s the black and white stones that make me disinclined to accept this theory. I think those stones still have a deeper symbolic significance and Rose and Bernard have now retired from the game.

Loved the comment about Locke’s shoes and Jesse Again noting the items Hurley had in possession and the backgammon game. Hurley’s a beast at every game from table tennis to horseshoes. Walt’s the only one who ever beat him–at backgammon no less.

Defend the island.

I can “believe” in time-travel because it’s pure sci-fi — suspension of belief. Most sci-fi shows/movies rely on this, many other TV dramas/cop shows do to but to a lesser extent. Over analysis kills suspension of disbelief. Suspension of disbelief also falls down when someone does something that is within my knowledge base yet breaks all the rules — like falling 100+ feet with tonnes of metal around them lives. I am sure people can find an example of someone living through such and event if they look long enough. Maybe building collapse or an earthquake survivour ? Perhaps I am being a little harsh.

However I suppose my other gripe is that the writers could easily have written it that the electromagent effect pulls Juliet into the shaft, her and Sawyer do their I love you thing, she falls, THEN Jack has to drop the bomb in and it goes off on impact. Would have been more dramatic and less jump the shark.

But hey it’s one scene, I’ll live with it.

@Robert A. Jones: after I read your post I rewatched “left behind” which is the episode you retell where Juliette and Kate are chained together and smokey flashes white lights at Juliette…I wonder- like you- if this is connected to the white light or even how her Character plays this VERY significant role in “The Incident” I also thought it was cool how Sawyer being a leader is foreshadowed in that episode and its Hurley who “nudges” him or “pushes” him in that direction which leads me to..

@Jesse again: You are right…I do think Hurley is going to be significant and I did not pick up on the fact that he was given those items when released form Jail…one friend said to me “Hurley is the new ‘special”". I think this is where we will learn the significance of the numbers…something having to do with Hurley.

I cant believe every time I check the blog there are so many more great ideas and theories and we were so close to the 500 posts its crazy…but the podcast has been cast….I think we could still get there…

Hurley is the key to saving Jacob or perhaps the balance against “evil locke”.
During Jacob’s adventures through time he had several items that helped the losties…
money, a pen, and candy…

now when hurley get’s out of jail…what do we see him get? A pen, money, and candy.

Then the person he meets outside in the cab is Jacob…who tell him he’s not bad luck at all, but that his abilities are actually useful and a gift.

What if this is massive foreshadowing?

my call to ryan and jen goes into a LOT more detail…
but I figured I would post it here for you all.

@Funky Dunky
I’m with you. Leave unsolved mysteries and let us speculate on and on and on.

My low points were much the same as what was posted in Ryan’s blog summary (Kate/Sawyer/Juliet’s silly motivational changes and Jack’s “I had her but lost her” reasoning), although I didn’t go to bed mad like Jen. LOL. Also, I found it hard to believe Sayid would know how to remove a nuclear warhead from the bomb AND arm it to detonate on impact. He was a torturer and a communications specialist — I guess I must have missed the episode where he was given specialized nuclear bomb training by Saddam. Small quibble.

Overall, I really enjoyed the finale and can’t wait for Season 6.

Oh, and on a final note I want to take this opportunity to say to Jen and Ryan, I love your podcasts!! I happened on them this past summer, and now they’re just a regular part of my LOST fix. Thanks for all your hard work.

Did you dislike Juliet’s “death” scene because it was so unrealistic that she’d survive that fall? I personally loved the acting and dialog between Sawyer and Juliet in that scene so I just want to be sure I know where you’re coming from.

Regarding her unlikely survival, I actually have an interesting theory from my brother, with me elaborating on it a little … but I haven’t had a chance to check the actual episode yet to see if I really believe this is possible. He was telling me that Juliet waking up from the fall looks very similar to Locke waking up from his fall. Is it possible that Jacob was there but we couldn’t see him? That the reason we didn’t see Juliet touched in her flashback this episode is because he touched her in that moment and gave her life, similar to how he revived Locke?… but why don’t we see Jacob there? Maybe this is where the loophole comes to help Jacob out. By Ben killing Jacob in 2007 at the same time in the Losties’ lives that the Incident is happening in 1977, Jacob’s spirit is able to break away from his body and transcend time to save Juliet so she can detonate the bomb and the 1977 Losties can be propelled forward into 2007 to fight against Anti-Jacob. Alright, I know that’s kinda out there, especially the leaps that I made about 2007 and 1977 happening at the same time and spirit-Jacob transcending time … but I still find it pretty interesting to think about.

Don’t get me wrong, I think LOST is the only hour on tv worth paying for.

Between S4 and S5 I left the US and moved to Australia who are about three or four epis behind. Of all the tv I watched in the US, which wasn’t much, the only show I watch via my old US iTunes account is LOST. I now pay the $2 per show to get it the next day. I will continue to do this through S6. LOST is the best show on tv, the only one really worth watching, however within a season there are always ups and downs, better and worse episodes. I still say that the finale was not as great as people are making out. It had great parts but also enough bad parts to make it only a good episode, not a great one.

As for answers, your explaination of the quarantine sign is a case in point. We have concluded from what we have seen why the sign is there. I think the D&C will not go out of their way to explain it ‘in show’. I think we WILL get answers to the major plot points but I am also very sure many fans will be dissappointed with the lack of answers and even the S6 finale. I foresee a high percentage of fans will proably be dissappointed with the final wrap-up and even the final scene.

The problem TPTB have is that, this time next year, fans may end up concentrating their energy into rants about the lack of specific mystery answers rather than veiwing the six year LOST story as what it is …. a character driven sci-fi/mystery show that is (or at that tiem was) far superior to everything else on tv.

D&C have a choice they can cram in all the answers and risk a ‘spoon fed’ final season or they can leave some open ended and face the wrath of the fans. I bet they go for the second option. A third option would be as I said before have a one/two hour special interview where they discuss what answers they didn’t provide. Something on a LOST Complete DVD set to make us part with more cash even though we have all the seasons in seperate sets !

Regarding the concern of missing answers to questions Vs. spoonfed answers: Another possibility is that the answer of some mysteries will then also answer other numerous remaining mysteries without having to be spoon-fed to audience. Case in point, the reveal of the AJ looking for a loophole and the rest of the opening scene and taking the form of DeadLocke answered multiple questions: 1. The compass was originally posessed by AJ (at least pre-loop) 2. Locke was not really brought back to the ‘land of the living’ 3. The island was not able to talk to Locke, it was AJ’s communication with the island, 4. Why Jacob was so secluded (to avoid the chance of being killed by AJ), yada, yada, yada.
True, it then brought in a whole new series of questions, but I would have to put some faith in the writers that as the questions become wider in scope and concept, the answers will follow suit, and then some of the more trivial issues will be answered in the course of the story unfolding.
Just my two cents. No, you cannot have your change back! Heehee

1. Answers: D&C have said that some of the mysteries will not be answered (e.g. Libbys past) and others as far as they are concerned have already been answered (e.g. the numbers). My feeling is that many will not be answered at all (eg quarrantine on Swan) and others will only be answered by conjecture (eg Adam and Eve => Rose and Bernard). Others will have to be answered (eg origin of Smoke Monster but even that maybe left hanging). I suspect D&C started the show with an over arching storyline and the idea that they needed to add more mysteries to keep people watching but now they are closing the loops they will not close all of them. Now we are into the final season I believe they will have to be very selective and will only answer the mysteries THEY consider important. A season where they answer mysteries ever week will not be the same.

2. Negative comments on the show: Some people will rate LOST as the greatest hour on tv no matter what happens in the show — some people would say an hour of Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle was pure gold. Some people will always rate episodes average, even one like the Constant. Some episodes are bound to be better than others. I just feel that the S5 finale didn’t cut the mustard. The opening scene was one of the best scenes in the entire show. The Juliet ‘death’ (is she dead or is she pinged into the future/past with our othe Lostaways … anyone want to call her agent and see if Elizabeth Mitchell is avaliable for work next fall?) scene was one of the worst. Ben killing Jacob, was great, Jack’s motivation to explode the bomb to reset history for another chance at Kate was plain stupid — she’ll be going to jail Jack and you won’t know her like ever. Hence my overall rating of good but not great.

regarding Valenzetti: alas, not canon. I find the release of seemingly crucial pieces of the puzzle but are non-canonical to be frustrating (to us fans) at best, and irresponsible (of TPTB) at worst. Personally, I am actually bitter about the Comic Con video of Pierre Chang sending a message 30 years in to the future, and that the cameraman was (by the voice) Daniel Faraday. Eventually, Dalton retracted this very convincing production with the wimpy characterization of it as being a “continuity error.” Continuity my arse.

This leads to the bigger question you raise: which I will paraphrase: in contrast to J.K. Rowling’s handling of Harry Potter, will LOST tie together at its end, and will the final season answer the many open questions. I am very confident that the answer to this will be a resounding NO. Although LOST will be much better than other shows, such as Twin Peaks or X-Files. I believe there are several reasons for this:

1) While the original creative team may have had some idea what the story was about, it did wander for a while, and much was put out there just to keep us fans confused and intrigued and puzzled and bought-in. Darlton have said that not every question will be answered. Of course not, because there is no over-arching coherent story that accommodates everything that we have seen. Some bits will be given short shrift, such as the Polar Bears, which are now considered to have been adequately explained (so says Carlton in a video interview): they were brought to Hydra island by Dharma, after the Incident escaped, and swam over to the main island, where they reproduced. C’mon — we’re supposed to believe that polar bears can survive in such conditions??? And then, of course the interviewer asks: what about the one in Tunisia? Uhhmmm….

2) The story must accommodate the realities of production. The actor portraying Eko wanted to leave Hawai’i, and so he had to be written out of the story (much as we liked him, and his church was incomplete). Similar problems arose with the actresses portraying Libby and Ana Lucia, who needed to offed from the show. I’ve no idea what other realties factor.

3) The mythology is just too dang big! There’s been soooo much back-story crafted that there’s no way to make it all tie together (fiction is much messier than reality).

4) The fans often like characters that are consequential to the evolving story. I believe Rose and Bernard are such. So, to appease “our” (collective) fervent desire to know what has happened to them, a scene is crafted to explain they are now happily living in the woods. Bye-bye. (uhh, how do they get through the sonic fence to steal food from the D.I. ? or is someone bringing it to them? oops! more questions).

5) TPTB may want a story ending that leaves room for either a (television) spin-off or a (movie) sequel. In such case, perhaps the story can’t be buttoned up all too completely and the questions answered all too fully.

fwiw.

I don’t need to be negative about the show…just thought it was funny. Locke lands on the pavement after falling out of the window of a high rise building and none of the passerby’s look up. – strange.

Ryan & Jen….Can’t wait for the podcast.

Getting back to the eye at the end
We in Canada are not getting, for regulatory reasons (protecting Canadian identity) the US feed when it airs
This means that we miss the last couple of minutes that overlap the next program which is often not a ABC program on the CTV network.
It sucks the same way we dont get to see the Super Bowl commercials live but only the next day on the net
Fortunately for us French minority in Quebec we get to see the tranlated versions over the summer in their entireity
So by the end of August I will know what this eye is all about

Anyway this show would be as much fun without you all everybody chipping in We just like comparing notes…
Thanks Jen & Ryan

@Thom Stanley
I agree that it isn’t definite that the smoke monster and Anti-Jacob are one in the same but Anti-Jacob’s reaction to Ben saying that his dead daughter told him to do whatever Locke said isn’t proof that they aren’t one in the same. Anti-Jacob was playing a role and he had to make Ben believe that this was new information to him. Regardless of whether or not Anti-Jacob and the smoke monster are the same thing, I’d be pretty surprised if Anti-Jacob didn’t already know what “Alex” told Ben. Ben telling Anti-Jacob that Alex’s message worked was still good news to him. It told him that he really had found the loophole because Ben would do his dirty work for him per Alex’s instrucitons. I really liked your point about Jacob’s death could have serious implications for Richard, and possibly others. I’d be bummed to see Richard die or age but I think that we probably will see some changes in him, especially if Jacob doesn’t somehow regain control quickly.

@iwantdesmondshair
No reason to be sad yet. Sorry to repeat myself but there’s no way for us to guess what questions will end up being answered in the last season. It is smart to recognize that some may never be answered but there’s no reason to get upset about it yet. As for the the “3 years ago” and “30 years later” stuff, I *mostly* agree with what you are saying. But here’s the thing: for the Season 3 timeline, it was part of the story that you didn’t know where everything fit. You were looking at the *same* characters at *different* points in their life and piecing together what has changed and what has remained the same. This season, you’re looking at *different* characters in *different* times but on their one linear path. It was fine to leave it up in the air for season 3 but there’s no point in it for season 5. For people who post on boards and listen to podcasts, it seems unnecessary but it the casual viewer it may help. I agree that it is a little annoying but since telling us when we are isn’t hurting the shock value, it doesn’t bother me much. I would agrue that there have been some surprising moments this season, but when you’re really involved in the fandom, just about every possiblity is thrown out there so we’re not as surprised when we see it. Had we had a week between seeing Jack in his downward spiral during the Season 3 finale, we probably would have pieced together things like his new cell phone and realized it was a flashfoward. Since it was contained within an episode, though, it was a “holy crap” moment for most of us.

I don’t know. I guess from where I’m sitting, it looks like we have people either upset because the clues aren’t there so we can’t theorize or it’s no surprise because we’re so good at theorizing and we’re drawing to an end so we’re actually getting answers to things we’ve been theorizing about for a very long time.

Honest question, other than the “3 years ago” and “30 years later” example, what else is being spoonfed?

@ Eva
Related to my comment above, if TBTB don’t deliver on the big ticket questions, all hell will break loose.

@ Thom Stanley
Although we can’t be certain yet, my feeling is that Dark Locke is just playing Ben at that point. He draws Ben out into revealing what happened while he already has a plan to turn it against him. Smokey acts as a kind of independent verification of Locke’s ascendance when, really, it’s just another guise for the deceiver. Love the Dorian Gray comment.

Sorry, have to disagree. The scene with Sayid and Nadia is not about free will, at least not in the sense of a classic struggle with good/evil, right/wrong. Compare this scene with Locke falling from the window. In your view of “free will”, it was ultimately Locke’s fault for being pushed out of the window — he “chose” to stand in front of the window, where his dad could easily push him out. Is that a better choice than for Nadia to walk into the street to be murdered? Yet, Jacob still touched Locke’s (dead?) body and revived him. Why didn’t he do that for Nadia?

Ultimately, free will is not the message we should be taking away from these scenes. They were probably nothing more than scenes to show how Jacob had previously handpicked our LOSTies for a special purpose — to show that he has always had a plan. Nadia’s death was more likely needed to provide Sayid’s motivation to do what he was destined to do. AND we have enough characters already to deal with in season 6…no sense in bringing her into the picture. Oh, AND because the writers had to clear the way for Sayid and Kate to fall in love.

In the end, I felt for Juliette and her deep insecurities — previously, she always seemed like such a remote reserved smug character with a continual sneer — i found it hard to like her — she obviously had a profound effect on James by helping him to mature and find contentment

Kate is still my favorite character — i love her spunk and passion — i hope the ending of s6 will be worthy of her

not looking forward to seeing irritating Claire back — if the anti-Jacob inhabits the dead, was Claire in that category? — how about Hurley being “blessed” by his visions? — are some of the visions Jacob?

Maybe they just act together to make this “all go away” in the words of Kelvin. The two discharges of energy combined into one incident extinguish the timeline which radiates out like a flash of light after a catastrophic explosion, but the substance of which no longer exists. That is the source of the fertility problems. You can’t conceive anything new into an after image which has no reality of its own.

@ You All Everybody
In terms of the influence of sacred mythology on the story, it might be useful to consider that almost every religious narrative from around the world shares a great many similarities. You have the creation myth, the world emerging from the waters of darkness; the snake/dragon/water monster that symbolizes the primordial chaos; a hero who undertakes a journey, often to the underworld, to return with light/fire/knowledge to share with the rest of humanity. The book to read on this subject is Joseph Campbell”s “The Hero With a Thousand Faces.” (Audible available?) I’ve always said he would have had a field day with Lost. Anyway, we’ve had Buddhist/Hindu, Islamic, Animistic, Greek, Egyptian, and Judeo/Christian influences on Lost in ample measure. I see the island as perhaps the one source, the Atlantis before the world broke apart in a tower of Babel moment. This would explain all these similarities.

And… I’ve heard a lot of people mention that they believe the smoke monster to be somehow connected to Dark Locke. Yet, Dark Locke is perplexed by Ben’s meeting with smokey and the result of that meeting. I believe smokey is an independent entity that is more the “judge” and Jacob and Dark Lock are merely players and our friends, the pieces.

To quote you –

“One reason that some writers refuse to answer *all* the questions is so that readers can decide for themselves what may or may not have happened.”

I absolutely agree. This is what really draws us watching and thinking. Honestly, I don’t mind about all the unanswered questions that much. Lost will be timeless and watchable even in 20 years, because the viewer’s involvement in the show is what makes it worthwhile.

Brain food!!

The reason non of this season has been shocking (especially the finale) is because we are being spoon fed info, I hate the info is now being presented to us. The whole “3 years ago” “30 years later” stuff is just horrible and dumbs down the show.

I’m so sad because it appears my favorite long times aspects of the show will not play any role in the outcome, sigh

Right before Eko is killed, “Yemi” asks Eko, “why do you speak to me as if I was your brother?”. Eko then responds “who are you?”… That is enough of a hint for me!

‘Jason, like all mortals, is unknowingly a piece in the game which the gods play against each other. This is an accurate portrayal of Greek theology and rarely found in any modern medium.’

What do you all think? It just rang a bell with me, especially the first scene with Jacob and ‘Esau’ on the beach.

If they just talk about that I will be more than happy!
Don’t take it on me guys, I AM making a point giving arguments on a subject I also love but I just feel strange that the biggest questions of the first 2seasons are now… well… nothing?

I disagree that JK Rowling answered *every* question by the end of the 7th book but even if she had, it was kinda my point that the book format makes it much easier to answer the questions. Due to the nature of the TV medium, there are a lot more outside influences that impact what the writers’ of the show are able to do. For example, if they had intended for Rousseau’s character to make it into season 6 and even to survive the entire series then they had to change things up once the actress playing Rousseau (Mira Furlan) decided she wanted to leave the show. (that was just an “for instance” … I’ve never heard them say they had other plans for Rousseau.)

I do see what you’re saying in terms of theorizing but I think that’d be true no matter what. People in the Harry Potter fandom thought it was going to be very important to know more about what happened to Harry the night his parents were killed and had all kinds of theories about the portraits conveying messages to Dumbledore that evening but, in the end, we didn’t find out that much more in the final book so those theories turned out for naught … in a sense. They are still important, in my opinion. One reason that some writers refuse to answer *all* the questions is so that readers can decide for themselves what may or may not have happened with those unanswered questions. I think Damon and Carlton will probably be able to answer more once Lost is over but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some things they’re simply going to leave to the audience to decide. As Mark B said, it’ll allow us to speculate and discuss our thoughts on the possible answers to unanswered questions.

- Jacobs convenient visits to all of the younger 815ers reeked of filler desperation , all so next season everyone can say in synchronous OMG ! He was Jacob all along

- the locke fall from the window looked very bad and rivalled the departure of the galaga

- Annoyed that juliet got pushed down a well like little Timmy when her usefulness was over

I am actually thinking will i bother giving lost 720 minutes of my life when it airs again next year

anyway i hope i really get over this by next year

Love the podcast

Michael

Perhaps Jacob (as a risen-obiwan) may yet resurrect Locke again? that’d be nice. ONe reason i was so unhappy with the show was Locke really being dead.

Here’s a thought I haven’t seen yet:

Jacob, AntiJacob — black and white living in a continual struggle…
Rose, Bernard — black and white living in back to nature, harmonal peace.

Wonder if thats a coincidence or actually meaningful. Maybe we’re not done with Rose and Bernard after all?

@Bonita: If they can’t reproduce on the island, I guess as soon as they have the opportunity to take kids they do that (why not do that of island? who knows) and the train them in the jungle leading them to call stars “Ursa Theodoris” and walking with teddy bear while grown ups… But will they ever adress that?

@Morhia: Harry Potter answered all the questions through the 6 books. I am really starting to fear that the most important questions of the first 2seasons will just be overlooked to answer questions asked during the last 3seasons…

@Dave in AL: Sure the show is really great, well writen and directed, full of references and allow for a lot of imagination and discution. But the X-Files was like that, and I am sure that if the Internet community had been bigger and if the podcast had existed there would have been a lot of them I guess.

My real problem now is: with THAT many questions left unanswered and still new ones coming. How can we find a good theory if we don’t know what datas we should take into account and thus… what the point of a podcast and others if we reflect on bad datas?
So the journey is great but we’d better not try to guess anything because they like to do “game changing” things while not answering the questions asked 3years ago.

@MLE in Colorado: Talking about datas and theories… I am a PhD Student in chemistry.

Yet: Love the show, love the podcast, looking forward for the replies on the blog… Optimism is a state of mind I guess!

It wasn’t Nadia’s free will to be hit by the car (she obviously didn’t want to die), but it was her free will to cross the street while looking in her bag for her sunglasses. Actions have consequences, and Jacob didn’t protect Nadia from the consequences of her actions. He did protect Sayid, however, from being the unwilling victim of his wife’s distraction, and he saved Locke from being the unwilling victim of his father’s malice.

Also, I don’t think that Nadia turning around had anything to do with her being hit, as her whole turn took less than 1sec, and the impact was unavoidable at that point.

It’s also fascinating that he respects Sayid’s free will even as he saves him. He doesn’t grab him to stop him from crossing the street. He asks: “could you help me?”, i.e., giving him a choice. Sayid could easily say “I’m not from LA” or “I’m in a hurry” and walk into the street. He only touches Sayid after the car has hit.

I’ve got one thing I have to nitpick on that a lot of people have made comments on (even Jack on the show), that if events can be changed that flight 815 will make it to LA. 815 will never make it to LA because it turned around. Even if the Losties were able to affect the future and the crash is prevented, the plane will still turn around because of mechanical problems. Preventing the crash will not get them to LA, only back to Sydney. If the goal is to arrive at LA, you have to change the one key event that prevented that from happening to begin with, the plane turning around, which was caused by the mechanical problem (the butterfly effect notwithstanding mind you).

The whole focus of Faraday, Jack, et al, was to stop the event that caused the airplane to crash on the island. If they were actually to succeed, the plane continues to Sydney, a far different outcome than arriving in LA as originally planned. Who knows, maybe the plane ends up crashing anyway and everyone dies as a result. How’s that for the universe course correcting?

Although a minor point in the grandiose scheme of the story, I just needed to get that out of my system.

Aloha,

Bob

I thought it was first of all pretty interesting to learn that the script at least says that the bomb actually did go off. So the white light may have been a flash for the Losties to time travel but even if that’s the case, the bomb did go off. Still leaves plenty of other options of the implications of the bomb going off but I’m still of the belief that whatever happened, happened. The most interesting thing will be how/where/when the time travelers end up.

I also really liked his comparison of Jacob as another example of bad parenting. I personally hope that we find out that Jacob, while seeming detached as Ben said, had to do that in order to allow “his children” free will. Almost like the opposite detachment we see out of Eloise. She is detached because she knows she is *directing* her son on a path that leads to her killing him. Jacob is detached because he knows that his children (if he really is God) must make their own choices in order to grow and the only way that can happen is to remain detached. It’s funny, I was having a similar conversation with my brother just today … telling him that I liked the casting of Jacob because the actor played the role very detached, which is what I’d imagine any deity who believes in free-will would have to be, while at the same time wanting to comfort the pain humans feel.

Good point about Eloise knowing that some of them must have ended up in 1977. I guess I’ll have to backtrack in terms of what side Eloise is on. It’s hard to tell how she feels about being able to change time. In 1977 after she kills her son, it’s clear that she desperately hopes she can change time. Later (but earlier for us) we see that she tells Desmond that it doesn’t matter what you do … fate has a way of course correcting. Her involvement in trying to get everyone who left the island back to the island seems to me that she still believes in destiny/fate but maybe that she now recognizes the importance of personal choice/free will of those who need to return? Does that make sense? Anyway, I still like the idea of Walt, Aaron, Jin Yong and Desmond having to return in order for Jacob to regain power and for light to triumph of darkness. This would be one time when Malcolm David Kelley being older now than the character Walt could really help out. They’d be able to say (and perhaps show, a little) that darkness controls for a certain amount of time … maybe only 5 or so years to make Malcolm David Kelley match the age of Walt … or a couple more so that Malcolm David Kelley is playing a little older than he actually is. They would then be able to cast young children, about Walt’s age when he first came to the island, to play Aaron and Ji Yong and help Jacob overcome darkness. That clearly assumes a lot and I’m very aware that they may take another direction but that’s an option I think I’d be happy with.

As to the conversation about the writers’ making it up as they go along, I feel like Damon and Carlton did a good job of answering the Comic Con video issue. I’m still annoyed that the video isn’t canon and that it didn’t work out as they hoped but by the nature of a television show and all the different components involved in making it work, I’m not too surprised that some things that are planned in advance don’t always pan out. Damon and Carlton were smart to point out that JK Rowling was able to do whatever she wanted with her world without having to worry about what a network wanted out of one of their biggest money makers. If Lost were a book series and not a TV show, I would not be at all surprised if we liked it much more because they things the creators planned would be more likely to follow through to the end. Even with a book, though, the creative process has to allow for somethings to change but at least you don’t have to adjust to actors wanting to leave or sweeps or possibly being cancelled. I personally trust that while the writers may have had to change how we get there, they are still telling the same story with the same themes and lessons that we’d get regardless of all the variables they’ve had to deal with; that despite having to make changes along the way, they have been able to “course correct” and get us to the same end result that they’ve planned for a long time.

@Yann From France — 4 8 15 16 23 42 => valenzetti

@Stubble — not really Nadia’s free will to stop in the street, likely caused by realizing that Sayid wasn’t with her. Jacob is an influencer, his words about choice are crafty and twisted, but look at the details, and his interventions lead the Losties he meets toward their “destiny” (destiny being defined with hindsight).

I believe the Loophole is Faraday’s discovery of time travel by… telling himself how to do it by having Desmond visit him… the biggest time loop we’ve seen.

Except there are no other time lops There apparently are two compasses, unless the major visual distinction between them is a continuity error. And the Lock-tells-Richard-tells-Locke loop is because one of those Locke’s wasn’t John Locke.

Although I don’t believe the white-shirt & black-shirt guys who start the ep are supposed to be taken literally as Jacob and Esau, the analogy is fitting, and so until he gets another name, I’ll call them by those names.

@TVSciFi “If Lost turns out to be two guys playing a video game, I’ll be very disappointed.” clearly two players, if not two sides. A game? – sure, why not. “I’ want to kill you” — common parlance in a game. I’ve been thinking this for quite a while, and wouldn’t be surprised, although I know most fans would HATE that ending. But, can you come up with ANY satisfying ending at this point? Heaven? Purgatory? A dream? The plane land in L.A.? Jack wakes up from a dream? The plane is really in the bottom of the sea, and they’re all dead? Jacob and Esau sitting beside the statue and some futuristic flying saucer descends, and Esau says: “It’s always the same” ? I can’t think of an ending that will close the story AND satisfy the fans. The expectations on the shoulders of Carlton and Damen are staggeringly huge. Now, what I do think is that their creative leeway is further limited by the fact that TPTB (the money behind the show) will demand an ending conducive to either television spinoffs or movie sequels.

Many other thoughts of mine here: http://tr.im/lxlS

Thanks,
George

I just want to personally thank Ryan and Jen and everyone that writes on this blog very much. Sure we may not have LOST for an other 8 hard months, but we have our community, and I think I speak for everyone when I say that this community will certainly and reluctantly speed up the time. Pun proudly intended.

Heres to hopefully making it to 500 Posts.

xxxwest-sayidxxx

I resemble that remark

I love this because I often wonder what each person does when they are not watching Lost…is Connie in Alaska a Teacher? Is Rich in Cleveland a Preacher? We know that Knives works at the in and out Burger on Satna Monica Blvd…

Anyway- I agree with you that – we are looking for everything to be a perfect match and make perfect sense- and its just not possible- for one, my Husband asked this AM “Who do you think we will see next season?” and he was trying to make friendly “Lost conversation” and my response was nothing short of snippy…”We will see whoever has it in their contract to fly to HI and make an appearance…” When- in reality- I really hope we see everyone again- perhaps looping back on themselves….but I agree- we may have seen the last of Rose and Bernard…but I do think Charlie will reunite with that guitar case…and I am hoping still- we will see Claire get on that helicopter..like Dorothy and the hot air balloon…

(I really do think we will easily hit 500 posts by Monday…)

@Moriah – About Miss Hawking’s fear of what would happen should some of the O6 not make it back to the island: I think she had to know that SOME of them would be going back to 1977, because we now know that she met Jack, Kate, and Sayid back then. Perhaps she did not know the fate of the ones that did not already appear in her past, or maybe she assumed they were all there.

@TVSciFi – I was thinking along the same lines of Jacob perhaps being evil. Or at least, not necessarily GOOD. I don’t know if either is evil, but we definitely don’t know if either are good yet. Sure, there are strong suggestions that Jacob is THE Jacob, but that Jacob is not necessarily pious. Maybe Jacob’s nemisis has a good reason to want to kill Jacob. I mean, how many of us were kind of hoping the Smoke Monster would thrash Ben’s body around the cavern? How many wanted Locke’s Dad killed? With the little we know about them it is hardly enough to determine if the nemesis is evil just because he wanted to kill Jacob, who happened to say he would be waiting for him when he found the loophole.
Perhaps they have the ability to manipulate space and time, via the island and it’s properties, and they are trying to gauge the goodness of mankind by bringing them to the island and seeing what happens between the people, but why would they need to do that on the island when they can apparently leave the island and see for themselves in the rest of the world how mankind is progressing?

Jacob has to be good, if this is in fact a dichotomous relationship.

Just me.

We have something in Lost that merits the discussions, blogs, theories, and (of course) the great Renn, or Jyan, and their podcast. Something so good that human nature in us all makes us long for perfection, something that will ultimately transcend even our hopes for the show. After all, wasn’t the early trademark of the show to give us reasonable expectations, then pull out the rug, consistently? In so doing, give us more than we expected? Production values up there with feature films, actors worth watching, and script/story material that kept us entranced; all have been there for us for five years worth. And consider it even more meritorious given the abysmal state TV in general has stumbled into.

Yes, we are fortunate. Yet quibbles should be part of this discussion. For all the wonderment we enjoy, seems to me many of us are very educated and capable people with professions and responsibilities, and important lives. Thus, the time given to this show is significant on several levels. Don’t we have something(s) better to do? I sure as hell hope not, and challenge the writers with that responsibility.

This season- the whole Kate episode. Putrid, in more ways than I have room to discuss. Now, the introduction of Gods? Darleton, and their writers have shouldered a colossal responsibility- ie to pull this off without stumbling embarrassingly, leaving us embarrassed to boot. I am rooting heartily for them. While I, and all of us, salute what Lost has been, and become, let us recognize the force it has been in our lives and pray we do not look back in 20 years with the anti-pride reserved for those of us who agonized over ‘who shot JR’.

Long live Lost, Locke, Ben, and yes (Knives) Sayid!

Aloha

On the other hand, we have the evil Non-Locke character, who as Apep has the ability to appear as a void or dark snake. In the Judaic/Christian telling of Eden, the devil appears as a beguiling snake. Smokie?

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Helen_Norwood

I’d like to say we still don’t know what it is Ben doesn’t remember as a result of his revival at the Temple. After all, when he woke up, he still remembered he didn’t want to go back to his dad. We’ll have to see post “I shot Ben” Sayid and Ben interact again to see if they’re saying he indeed forgot all the circumstances that brought him to the Others.

I went back and watched “walkabout” and in that episode, John Locke’s supposed girlfriend appears to be some kind of “call girl” or “phone sex operator” who tells John if he keeps calling, she’ll have to charge him. In a the subsequent seasons, they portray her as more of a real girlfriend.

Reminds me of the episode about Ben forgetting everything after Richard takes him into the temple. The writers are reactive, not proactive. I’m sure when they made up Jacob, they had no idea what they were going to do next. Makes the show more soap opera-ish and less of a consistent body of work.

Its disappointing to know that the concepts and story lines are not better well thought out. Oh Well, we have already invested our time into the show. I mean, we are all still watching after the Island disappeared, right?…its a good thing there is only one season left.

You could see the hate in the Dark Player’s heart right from the start and he followed through with his malicious desire to kill Jacob. Jacob expressed optimism for humanity, AJ only expressed contempt. I’m going to go with the obvious in this instance and define Jacob as “good.”

@everyone…yes I could have posted these two together…but if we have a goal of 500 posts by podcast time we better keep posting!!

I like what everyone has been saying about the playing out of two “Gods” using humans as their “pawns” it reminds me of that Pulitzer prize winning play “J.B.” where the two Circus guys play God and Satan and play with a Man named J.B.- its a take off from the story of JOB in the bible. That opening scene where white shirt and dark shirt are interacting and they seem very modern day- yet there is a slave ship rolling in- reminded me of this play set in modern times with a very old story being told.

I understand the idea of free will in LOST, and I agree with that. However, in this case, I’m not sure it applies. Nadia didn’t “choose” to get hit by a car, no more than Locke “chose” to be pushed out of a 12-story window. In one case, Jacob turns a blind eye, in the other he brings someone back to life with a touch of his hand.

I don’t think Jacob is the bad guy. In fact, he’s obviously a Christ-like figure, but I just didn’t understand this scene. I’m willing to accept it as a mystery of the divine, and Jacob knows best.

Next season, I believe – The bright white light was flashing them back to 2007 (“They are coming.”). Unfortunately, our John Locke is DEAD but the actor will remain. Jack, who now has both science and faith, will step into old John Lockes roll on the island. Jacob saved Sayid from getting hit because Sayid had proven his good heart on the island.

Many questions remain – What’s in the guitar case? Did they change the past or just cause it? Will we see Desmond and Penny again? Is this all just a game? Will we find out how Daniel had in his position the completed journal? Will Kate be pregnant with Jack’s baby? Is Claire still alive? Is Frank correct about “good guys”? Is Jacob the “good guy?

You’re right, Phaecians / Φαίακες is correct. Thanks for pointing it out. Interestingly it’s the name of a municipality in Corfu island, quite popular as a holiday destination. The British love partying there too.

Actually the Phaeacians not the Phoenicians lived in Scherie. I agree with all the rest.

Jacob respects people’s free will. It was Nadia’s choice to look for her sunglasses while crossing an LA street, thus being oblivious to the car that violated the pedestrian green light.

Odysseus’ last stop before arriving back to his homeland Ithaca, was Scherie island (the Phoenician people used to live there). He swims ashore on the island where, naked and exhausted, he hides in a pile of leaves and falls asleep. Next morning, awakened by the laughter of girls, he sees the young Nausicaa, who has gone to the seashore with her maids to wash clothes. He appeals to her for help.

The quote at Jacob’s place in the beginning of the episode is a quote taken from that exact part, where he tries to appeal to Nausicaa for help: “may the gods grant thee all that thy heart desires” (greek:[σοὶ δὲ] θεοὶ τόσα δοῖεν ὅσα φρεσὶ σῇσι μενοινᾷς,)

Quotes found by Stubble on 1st quarter of this page,source also verified by myself.

-Looking forward to the podcast!

To me, her comment implies that the pregnancy problems already exist on the island well before the incident. Further evidence of this is that the statue appears to be “Tarawet”, which was the Egyptian deity of protection in childbirth.

Therefore it appears to me that the pregnancy problems have been around on the island for a long, long time, and were not caused by the incident as some have theorized.

I really loved the ending … especially Jacob’s last word’s before he was kicked into the fire by his adversary after being stabbed by Ben … “They’re coming”. That means no death by the explosion, and a 30 year flash-forward is in store for our losties! And that eye at the very end after the Thud … was definitely Kate’s.

I mean… this show has only 5seasons! It likes to keep us in the dark not knowing what is going on… but by pushing mysteries over mysteries it seems that a lot of BIG issues will never be addressed. And when I look at the last 2seasons: bringing more people to the Island and having losties going back in time playing Return To The Future… you know what, I was ok about it until the official podcast of this week: the Comicon video is fake, sorry. We had an idea but couldn’t make it happen. So it clearly means: we are writing this as it goes along, teasing you for 6months about something that was supposed to be big but was just a blopper. If they can’t remain focus over 6months how could they ever be coherent toward what happened 5years ago!

Really looking forward to next season so… knowing the show is good but went a bit “a la X-Files”. The show is good but the mythology is over the place.

@Atom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-zW3ObUnPA
Mustache Locke is probably from an other Terry O’Quinn work… like in this exemple with Chau: JAG

@ Jonathan from Brooklyn
Love the idea! With a future Desmond who could interact with the other losties back to life…

– We see flashbacks of Jacob meeting with all the Losties BEFORE the ill-fated plane, except for Hurley and Sayid. Both of those encounters came AFTER they returned from the island. Not sure what to make of that, but it did stick out to me.

– I’m guessing that the real Locke is going to be coming back in season 6, either by divine (i.e. Jacob) intervention or due to the return of the other Losties. No proof of this, but he’s just to integral a part of the story to be gone for good.

– the scene with Ilana in the hospital was interesting. What language was that? Why was she there? How does she know Jacob, and why was she so willing to help him? Why did he need her so bad? Season 6 can’t come soon enough.

– thoughts about Non-Locke… First off, he doesn’t seem to know where Jacob lives, since he needed Richard to direct the way. That’s odd, since we saw him with Jacob at the beginning of the episode next to the statue, where Jacob specifically tells him that when he finds a loophole, “I’ll be right here.” Also, Non-Locke didn’t know Ben had had an encounter with his daughter Alex in Smokie’s lair, at least it appeared that he genuinely had no idea and was curious how the encounter went. Is it possible that Ben’s daughter appeared at the behest of someone, or something, else? On the other hand, could Non-Locke and Smokie be one and the same?

– I’ve seen some posts on the web that believe Jacob is Sobek (also the statue), guardian of RA and head of the gods, while Non-Locke is his nemesis Apep, the god of darkness and who was often seen as a void, black hole or dark snake. Interesting, don’t you think?

Now, the main reason I’m writing. Some people have been wondering about who had been inhabiting Jacob’s cabin. At first I thought it was pretty simple … either Anti-Jacob or Christian (or both, if they’re one in the same). But seeing the scene again where Ilana and Co come across the cabin again, I’m beginning to agree with those who don’t think Jacob’s cabin ever really was Jacob’s cabin. Ilana and Co looked down right terrified when they realized the ash circle was no longer complete. I don’t think they’d be scared of that if it only meant that Jacob was gone. I think it is possible that the cabin and the ash around it was originally a way to keep Anti-Jacob contained. I think Anti-Jacob was probably there even when Ben came to visit but didn’t show himself to Ben (that is, if Ben ever really visited it other than the time he took Locke). I believe it was Anti-Jacob reacting when Locke turned on the flashlight. I’m not sure how the ash circle was broken … did we ever see anything that could have broken it? I had originally thought that Anti-Locke was using Christian’s form in much the same way he used Locke’s but now I’m not so sure. It seems more likely to me that something else is going on with Christian (and Claire) and that they were the ones Ilana said we using it since Anti-Locke was gone.

I need to watch the episode again. Lots of great theories here. My friends that don’t go to the boards are totally confused.

@Stubble – good observations. I think your theory re: Sun is correct.

Christian said that Sun needed to go with Fake Locke, because Fake Locke would take her to the Others as he poses as the “Leader”. It does not mean that Christian approves of Fake Locke. Indeed, why would Christian show up and say anything to Sun if he was fake? If he was fake, he would have no interest in helping Sun, since Sun has done nothing to further the plan to kill Jacob.

Clearly, Fake Locke doesn’t care one bit about Sun or being reunited with his people. So, why does Fake Locke allow Sun to tag along, acts nice to her, and promises to help her several times, each time finding something he “has to do first”? He lets Sun tag along, because he wants to maintain his cover, and for no other reason. Dropping Sun would be not in keeping with Locke’s character and would tip Ben that something was amiss.

Wow Stubble Great Greek translation
Even better, it truly makes sense
Yann makes sense about the fail safe key and the release button

Regarding Jacob’s meetings with Losties
Of note is the fact that Sayid is met only after coming back
Probably Ilana too
but she was obvously knowing him

Scientific notes about the drilling (by an engineer)
Seems like the DI sunk a well for about one hundred feet
then resorted to drilling with large core size bits for probably a few hundred feet more
So this pocket of energy
although detectable was very deep down the earth
What can be this EM source?
Probably the same source as the FDW… ET ?

Another question
What is the reason for the conflict between Jacob and his «friend» ?

I know people don’t often give the clip show a lot of credit for doing much of anything but it’s been very interesting to watch in this new perspective.

Not really related: I was also thinking that it’s interesting how so many fans have mentioned that “Locke” has been looking really good sense returning from the dead. Make-up and wardrobe had to have done that on purpose. Nice touch that the Devil (who I still feel Anti-Jacob most likely represents) would be attractive.

From Wikepedia (which I make fun of as much as I live by):
Red herring (logical fallacy), a deliberate attempt to change a subject or divert an argument
Red herring (narrative), a technique used in literature to mislead the audience

so how are we being mislead? or how will we be? I am wondering if it has to do with assuming who is Good and Evil which is something I have brought up in posts many times- when everyone said Ben was Bad- I wondered “How Bad?” or Locke was good “How good?”

I like the idea of Jacob nudging people along and hoping with their free will they will choose the “right path.” This alone can be construed both ways.

LOL:D

But actually, giving us two alternate realities sound pretty good. Now’s the time to email to Damon & Carlton… or post it on Youtube and make a million bucks. (<- Heroes reference back when the show was watchable)

Hey it just occurred to me. At least they’ll never ever f*** Lost up like Tim Kring did with Heroes.

I have to say the first time I watched the episode Wed. I was not in love with it…But…I watched it a 2nd time and it really was a lot better than I had thought. I think you should watch a 2nd time before the Podcast Ryan & Jen…but I can agree w/ some of your post.

I have read every post here and I AM SHOCKED we have not touched on a few things. ( I mean there are about 334 posts so far )

1st – Didn’t anyone catch the “Jaws” ending? “Die you Son-of-a-bitch” then _______ BLAMMO the white light!!!! Even if you expected the Jughead ending it or were upset about the fact Juliet lived through the fall you had to love that!!!. I remember Sawyer singing “Show me the way to go home” a few seasons ago.

2nd – Nobody mentioned that Jack’s story to Kate about his 1st operation when he ripped the “Dural Sac?” was a partial lie. It seemed like Jack decided to do this on his own, however, he gave no credit to his father being there to calm him down. In fact … he sort of owes his father credit for being calm. I think this is important to know motivational wise. What did Christian say? “Are you sure I don’t think you’re good enough”.

I’m sure soon I’ll post a full-on theory but it would sound much like an incorporation of many above and parts of mine from last week – but not R.A. being Smokey as I was thinking then – - thanks for mention on the Podcast by the way – - I am still convinced there may be more than 1 smoke monster…I mean if Smokey # 1 is in fact “Jacob’s enemy” and can manifest himself into dead bodies then it’s only fair that Jacob could do something similar.

PS – - My suggestion name for “Anti-Locke” / AJ / “Jacob’s Enemy”, “Dead-Locke” etc : :

A – “Not-Locke”
B – “Flocke” – - an homage to the now useless “Fenry” for Fake Herny / Ben and in a way he is Fake-Locke.

I’m sure there’s a Poll somewhere.

But seriously, no, never heard:/

@ Stubble

But Christian told Sun & Lapidus to wait for Locke (de Dark One). Then again, I suspect 2007 Christian was co-existing with Dark Locke so he couldn’t have been possessed by AJ. AJ can’t possess two bodies at the same time, can he?

Predictions for next season:
Miles was right. So was everyone else who saw it telegraphed. The losties caused the incident. What happened happened.

But Faraday was also right. It did change things.

In the 6th season there is duel timelines of both sets of Losties. The first set is simply blasted back to 2007 on the island. The other set land in LAX and are living their lives. The writers then, entertwine the stories, as they love to do. Telling in the same episode how the characters are doing on the island and off the island.

Dead: Faraday, Juliet stay dead and Sayid dies by episode 3. (He’s tough he takes a long time to bleed out)
Most characters that have died come back for guest appearances. This includes Libby and Boone but not Mr. Ecco.

Rose and Bernard become central characters. Phil lives, and is their antagonist.

In the future, where I’m from, the fans are so angry at the writers for such bad choices all around that, by the 9th episode of Lost final season the fans have stopped watching lost in mass protest. They then start to follow My Name is Earl. Which by 2010 has a intriguing and complicated plot line much like that of Lost before the final season.

the future is grim guys but the economy fully recovers due to the massive increase in productivity of all office workers. In the future office workers are no longer addicted the lost podcasts or the message boards.

That is until the Lost spinoff show:

A sitcom similar to the Odd Couple called “Down the Hatch”. It Stars Radzinsky and Inman and the ghost of Anna Lucia. Vincent makes Guest appearances.

Christian’s shoes that Ray gave to Jack will be the clue that Jack will need to recognize the “real” dead Locke from the fake one walking on the Island.

The first Greek quote (shown in the beginning) is spoken by Odysseus to Nausicaa when she discovers him and offers to help him.

Knowing what we all know now, the mustachioed, sinister Locke I saw certainly seems to be “dark Locke.”

I’m just hoping someone, somewhere out there can help assure me I haven’t gone off the deep end.

Locke’s wearing a red beret, has a villianous thin moustache, and is asking the young Widmore why he shouldn’t kill him. Maybe you can find it.

do you have a link for this clip? Never seen, never heard, but I’m intrigued…

Set was the evil guy. He tore up Osiris and sent him afloat. Sobek, the god of earth wind, water, and fire rescued Osiris, allowing him to conceive Horus, the good guy, who was raised on an island. Horus became buddies with Sobek, hence him living in his statue. Set then battled Horus for 80 years, tearing out his eye. Maybe that has to do with the eye in the Arrow. Set vs Horus was the classic Satan vs Jesus in Egypt. I can’t explain Annubis/monster being there though…

Scene: Tent in Others camp. Young Widmore, hands tied behind back (?), brought in by two Others holding him by the upper arms. Locke, in full Colonel Kurtz get-up and, again, with pencil-thin moustache (think: Guy Williams during his Zorro days), begin questioning Widmore. My recollection is, the Others under Locke’s command were performing some sort of military defensive training exercises and young Widmore allowed himself to be taken captive. Obviously, I can’t recite the dialogue chapter and verse but the clip ends with mustachioed Locke asking Widmore why he shouldn’t kill him for failing to perform his assigned mission.

My assumption at the time I saw the clip was that in some coming Season 5 episode a flash would occur, Locke would end up with the Others for some extended period before the US Army arrived with Jughead, took command, and was organizing the Others for a defense against the Army.

Obviously, this didn’t occur in Season 5.

So, what am I to make of this?

You tell me: Was it an S5 outtake that made its way onto Youtube? Did they already begin filming scenes from season 6 during season 5, and is this a preview?

The fact that this didn’t make it into season 5 has me utterly perplexed. What In God’s name did I see, and why was it out there in the wild?

I would truly, truly appreciate it if someone would confirm that they, too, saw this clip.

I’m confident Juliet will be back and not as a ghost or flashback. There is this variable called the Audience and they demand her safe return.

Question – Why didn’t Jin fight Jack about his plan? His baby would never be born. Something totally overlooked.

About Rose and Bernard being Adam and Eve, do bodies really decompose into skeletons in just 30 years? I tried to find answers online, but couldn’t find anything about the exact time it would take human bodies to decompose in a cool, dry place like that cave. And, if our losties did flash into the future/past, I suspect R&B flashed with them.

JACOB/ESAU

I don’t buy the whole Jacob/Esau thing, the show is full of references that it interprets in a different way. So we will not have two characters out of the Bible, more likely we have references out of different religions (as one commentator before me already stated). The theme of Devil/God, Dark/Light and Evil/Good, dualities, in short, are the central theme of all belief systems, esoteric principles, spiritual ideologies, philosophy, theory of ethics and even science (opposites in electromagnetism etc).

SCIENCE/FAITH

And also the whole controversy between Man of Science and Man of Faith is not as poignant as many believe.

Jack ( – Man of Science) has always had faith to an extent. Faith that if only he does his best things will work out, he can be the hero to save the day. Also, belief in science is in a way also just a belief system – the belief that tangible things are all that exist and that things are made tangible by measuring or empirically investigating them.

Locke ( – Man of Faith) has always been a man of science, too. Early in the first season he had various scenes in which he proved his deep knowledge in biology (remember moths and boars). His intuitive insight into his fellow losties (Charlie and Jack) left an impression that he’s got a PhD in psychology.

CHARACTER DEATHS

I will be very pissed to find out that Juliet’s really dead. More pissed than about Locke (in the end of season 4) or Sayid (neeh he’s become boring anyway) or Charlie (his story had been told) or Kate (I’m one of the few Kate-fans) or Jacob (didn’t know him, don’t care. Besides, if the first 5 min of the finale matter at all, Jacob’s not… ya know… D.E.A.D.)

LASTLY

In the end of every season I’m forced to re-think and even re-watch the show because each finale just puts the previous episodes in a totally different perspective.

P.S. I’m a champ AND have too much free time ’cause I’ve read each and every post here:P

Wild season finale. I love the fade to white with black LOST lettering, instead of vice versa as normal.

I think the final season is going to be great.

I didn’t feel as though this season really built up this huge climax for a finale…but really liked the finale anyway. (Heck, I’ve liked all of them this season.) Hard to believe we’ve come through six seasons of LOST already. I remember back during season one and just being mind-boggled. Now, here I am and still being blown away by the creativity and possibilities.

It’s gonna be a long wait until next season…but then I won’t want it to end. Maybe if I detonate my hydrogen bomb at the Swan . . .

I don’t think I will call in and sing to Ryan and Jen again though!

“Somewhere over the rainbow
Way up high,
There’s a land that I heard of
Once in a lullaby.

Somewhere over the rainbow
Skies are blue,
And the dreams that you dare to dream
Really do come true…..”

Question: Am I crazy, or did anyone else also stumble across this?

I’m in it for the long run no matter what happens but this episode really rubbed me the wrong way. The way info is being spoon fed to us takes away from the show. So many of the core aspects of the show are being lost, no pun intended. No Aaron, no numbers, a entire season without Claire, nothing surprising (I’m sorry but Locke being in that metal box was ultra obvious)

I watch LOST for the mystery and sometimes less is more. I hope the writers realize the show is getting silly. For me the end of Season 3 was one of the most brilliant moments in TV because of the way the scene was handled.

I digress, I just hope season 6 feels more like the LOST I have grown to love.

- like a few others have said: this better not be the end of Locke. that would be hugely dissapointing.

- my only real prob with the ep is the non-reaction of ilana and her group. if they had the real locke in their box how could they possibly not react/take action when they saw other “locke” sitting on the beach. fairly ridiculous.

- now even more curious bout hurley’s guitar case

Now if Jacob had all these powers
why would he let mere Ben pounce him ?

But we all know this won’t be what happen… and I have 1 good reason for that: Hurley’s guitar.

Sorry I’m coming in late on this, but I was out of town Wednesday night and just watched it last night. My mind is blown. Lost was in my dreams. I could not get it out of my mind all night long. More and more scenes from earlier in the show kept occurring to me, seen in a totally different light.

I also had a dream that if I went back in time I could stop my hot flashes. I woke up laughing from that one.

were they AJ? are they working for him?

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY…

does this mean Kates vision about not taking Aaron back may actually have been the evil character tricking her…
and maybe Aaron NEEDS TO GO BACK?

Actually, now I hope the explosion did change everything and the plane lands safely in LA, etc. Otherwise it’s gonna be too predictable: the losties go back to 2007, reunite with Sun, fake Locke and co, take part in the big battle for the destiny of the island, change sides a couple of times… Meh.

Also, it was funny when Jin said that Jacob’s Korean was excellent. I don’t know Korean, but I speak Russian and in the hospital scene Jacob’s Russian was horrible.

From the ABC website and the recap of The Incident Part 1:

“The camera pulls back over the ocean, and we see they were sitting on the base of a giant stone foot. And next to the foot is another foot — and both feet have four toes. And as the camera pulls back, we see what we’ve been waiting to see since we first glimpsed that four-toed foot over three years ago… the towering, majestic statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret. And we clearly know we’re a long time ago, so let’s get the finale of season five started –”

The thing I keep coming back to is Juilet’s fall into the shaft. It was so close to being a jump the shark moment you could touch the shark. She fell, what 100 feet plus, along with tonnes of metal and survives. Then she hits the innards of a hydrogen bomb (which was designed to explode on impact and has also fallen 100+ feet) with a small rock and it goes off ? Oh please.

It’s not the killing of Juliet I mind (thou I do — kill off the only real relationship LOST has ever had) it’s that she survived the fall compounded with the bomb thing. Just have the bomb be dropped and her dragged into the shaft then the bomb go off …. if you want to make it more poiniant have her pulled in first then Jack drop the bomb after.

Other than that liked the whole Jacob thing … but why kill him off staright away ?

It’s going to be a long wait.

There were not a lot of surprises in this episode.
Jack and Sayid are not doing well in a gunfight (like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid) and a VW van comes speeding into the picture. Was it a surprise that Hurley was driving?
Jacob is sitting on a bench and someone falls from an upper story window to the ground behind him. It would have been a shock if it wasn’t Locke.
Who didn’t know that Dr. Pierre Chang would lose and arm?
I suppose that Locke being dead was supposed to be a shock. But how many times were we told that “dead is dead”? Ben told us. (I know, he lies a lot.) Carlton Cruse and Damon Lindelof told us. They even named an episode Dead is Dead. I’ve questioned the appearance of Locke alive on the island since Ajira 316. And then the way the camera pans over the opened crate from 316′s cargo hold to reveal it’s contents could hardly have left any surprise.

There is one reason that I’m glad that Locke’s death was confirmed. Many people were concerned about the origin and final disposition of the compass. To me the compass was trivial. More important, was the origin of the idea that Locke must die to get all the others to return to the island. It would appear that Richard Alpert told this to Locke who told Richard who told… Now it’s clear that Jacob’s enemy, impersonating Locke, told Richard to tell this to Locke, and there it ends.

What did we learn about the four-toed statue? Nothing other than it was still standing in the days of the Block Rock. And, maybe, that Ben knows something about when it was destroyed.

Then there were some noticeable script errors.
First, Richard, Eloise, Jack, and Sayid entered the tunnels last week and lit their way with torches. This week they were using lanterns.
Also, Daniel Faraday stated that his calculations demonstrated that the way to neutralize the unstable energy that would be released was to detonate the H-bomb. However, Jack and Sayid never attempted to detonate the H-bomb. Instead, they removed the detonator, which is a less powerful A-bomb, and detonated that at the Swan station.
Before Sayid removed the detonator from the bomb, he stated that they had only about two hours to get it to the Swan station. After this, we see Sawyer, Juliet, and Kate perform their jail break, paddle ashore, chat with Rose and Bernard and then set off for the Swan station five miles away. Five miles, on foot, through the jungle, in less than two hours. Who writes this stuff? The same people who get Jack Bauer across Los Angeles, in heavy traffic?
But the most glaring error was when the van with Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Jin and Miles is stopped by Sawyer, Juliet, and Kate. Sayid was critically shot and Jack was fighting to save his life. Sawyer says he wants five minutes to talk to Jack and Jack agrees. ??? Jack should have said in five minutes Sayid would be dead and he didn’t have the time to talk with Sawyer.

We learned a few things: what was in the crate Ilana’s people were carrying, that “dead is dead” really does apply to Locke, how Pierre Chang lost his arm, what happened to Rose and Bernard, and that Jacob has visited many of our Losties off the island.
But more questions were introduced.
What is Jacob’s history?
Who is his enemy and why does he want to kill Jacob?
What is the loophole?
For that matter, what is the loophole in?
What is the significance of the ash trail at Jacob’s cabin.
Why did Ilana burn Jacob’s cabin?
What is her relationship to Jacob?
What is Frank Lapidus a candidate for
All in all, I feel more questions were raised than were answered.

But the centric part of the episode was Jacob. And his encounters off-island with eight of out 815 survivors were interesting. (Eight is also the number of times that Juliet had to strike the bomb before it detonated. But I digress.)
Kate, Sawyer, Jack, Locke, Sun, and Jin he encountered before the crash of flight 815. The encounters with Hugo and Sayid were after the rescue of the Oceanic Six.
He asked Kate to promise not to steal any more. She promised, but she certainly didn’t keep that promise.
Sawyer, after the encounter, was asked by his uncle to promise not to finish the letter. He promised, but didn’t keep that promise.
Jacob was present when Jin and Sun made their wedding vows, which weren’t kept.
But after this, I can’t extend the pattern.
Jack was approached after performing surgery. But this wasn’t the surgery on Sarah when he had promised he would fix her.
Nor were there any promises made surrounding Jacob’s visits to Lock, Sayid, or Hurley.
After Jacob’s encounters with Kate and Sawyer, the promises stood out like a sore thumb. I am quite surprised that the pattern wasn’t continued, at least for Jack and Locke who were encountered pre-815.

Sawyer, again, finds himself out at sea trying to make it back to the island.

I suspect that we have now seen the last of Rose and Bernard. After all the clamor made by fans about wanting to see Nikki and Paulo, they were produced and dispensed with. I suspect the same is true for Rose and Bernard except that they’ll be left to a peaceful retirement.

For everyone going all Jacob/Esau, it might also be worth pointing out that in the Bible Benjamin was Jacob’s youngest son, his favourite after Joseph, and his name means ‘Son of my Right Arm’, Benjamin’s mother also died in childbirth. Just saying ;p (ok, so sue me, having the name Rebecca and going to Jewish schools all my life gave me a certain knowledge of these things).

Also…with regards to anagrams, was it just me that found the chocolate bars next to the Apollo bar had weird names? I’m guessing they might be anagram-tastic, but I don’t have the energy to go look for myself right now.

Back to reading comments…

Good point Dave, if it was Rose & Bernards cabin, that could explain the dog in the portrait that looks like Vincent, maybe Bernard took up painting and wanted something to paint! Otherwise if it was Jacob’s cabin, then I guess our Vincent is a very important pooch indeed

@Jack in Tokyo,
- I thought the picture in the cabin was of Vincent too.

- Rose and Bernard’s cabin did remind me of Jacob’s cabin, but didn’t Horace build Jacob’s cabin? I don’t think they’re the same.

- Looking forward to another outstanding podcast!

Locke has always had such a huge following of fans on the internet. I think a lot of people wanted Locke to succeed because they see a little bit of themselves in Locke in that we all want to believe that we have a greater purpose and that one day we will be rewarded for all our suffering and sacrifice. i think that it’s because of this that so many people are unhappy with the fact that Locke turned out to be just a tool in the end. I’ve always sided with the “man of science” side of the argument and I find it all to be very enjoyable! of course, we still have all of next season for faith to win out.

also the people Hurley saw (one on the island the others post-island) were they his imagination/sickness or was it the Anti-Jacob? Was the Anti-Jacob Christian on and off the island? Eko’s Brother? Kate’s Horse? The “Walt” Shannon saw before she died?

I cannot get my brain around the entire finale, but I do think the episode is the game changer as promised. I also think it is probably very possible we will be seeing some of the dead “survivors,” like Charlie, Boone, et al.

So many questions…I think in the end we will be very happy with the finale of this wonderful show.

Just a few thoughts to brain dump.

- I can’t agree with the “this was the best episode ever” advocates. The season 3 finale was the biggest mind-blower that I think we’ve seen. This was a very good episode, very entertaining, but best ever? Really? I know it’s a subjective thing but this probably wasn’t even in the top three of this season.

- The casting of Jacob was inspired. Just ominous and benevolent and bemused enough to work. Interestingly the actor’s name is not on IMDB yet.

- LOVED Jacob’s interactions with the O6, especially with Jack after his surgery… maybe it just needed a little push. There is love and compassion in all of these interactions, but nothing heavy-handed. He is the true God/Jesus figure here and he NAILS it.

- All the foreshadowing of a reanimated John Locke scaring the hell out of people turned out to be spot-on.

- Agree with all the posters above that “Esau” is the dark or Satan character. I also strongly agree that he is the Smoke Monster. Hear me out on this one. In the story of Esau and Jacob (from what I remember from Sunday school and read on Wikipedia), Jacob is convinced to disguise himself as Esau to get their father’s blessing. (Jacob does not want to be deceptive but gets cajoled into it.) Jacob then gets blessed in place of Esau, which angers Esau, but Isaac seems to say, “hey, I kind of think he deserves it anyway.” So Esau wants to kill Jacob. Now, Mr Eko became a “pious” man by assuming the garb or a priest, even though Yemi was truly pious and Eko was undeserving. Maybe that’s why Smokey kills Eko; Eko is too much like Jacob. And Smokey lets Locke live so that he can use him down the line once he learns what he needs. Maybe that’s also why Smokey lets Ben live… he knows Ben will be angry and vengeful enough to lash out at Jacob and be the agent who kills him.

- Along those lines, there must be some parable in religion about the man who gets anrgy, as Ben did, for all he ever hears about his how great God/Jesus is, and in a fit of self-aggrandization asks God/Jesus, “what about me?” (I believe this is best described in the 1982 one hit wonder by Moving Pictures. ) God/Jesus asks “wjat about you,” with bemusement that any human thinks they are better than any other, and then Ben loses it. (Okay, maybe there’s no parable, but I got to work in a cool 80s reference.)

- Weren’t Adam and Eve found in a cave? Why would Rose & Bernard leave their shelter and go to a cave?

- Interesting comment by Darlton in the 8-9 pm hour about how Richard is the only person in both 1977 and 2007 simultaneously. Not sure what it means, though.

- I agree with all the commenters above about the callback to Walt and Locke’s backgammon game. Very cool.

- The “infinite loop” idea rears its ugly head again. Just because every time a group shows up on the island, anarchy rules and people die DOES NOT mean it’s a TIME LOOP. Evolution was a series of mistakes and until you get the right outcome, you begin again from scratch. That doesn’t make it a time loop (e.g. going from 1977 to 2007 and back again). Over hundreds of years, new people show up and F up and die and then they lather, rinse, and repeat.

- I was sad to see Juliet go but I bet she’ll be back. The ending of this episode leaves almost everything as a possibility, and given how each season thus far has begun I’d say the only thing that’s certain is that nothing is certain.

Here’s to the zombie season.

So many of the people on the island were there to face demons or themselves, and to have all of that wiped out would be the one thing that would make me wonder why I spent the previous years getting involved with these characters. Jack’s insistence on wiping that all out – and Kate and Juliet’s rather mystifying agreement with him – just did not ring true for me.
But will introducing these characters take the focus even farther away from our Losties? That’s the second false note of the finale – this big a reveal Lost to too good a show to have characters as simplistic as Jacob Good, Esau Bad; their struggle is so much more interesting if they’re more complex. But not if they end up gobbling up the screen time.

The scene at the beginning is reminiscent of the book of Job in the Bible where God is having a conversation with Satan.

Jacob says: ”It only ends once, any thing that happens before that is just progress.” Similar to scenes in the book of Revelation. Where God has a plan for mankind, that man will ultimately be judged for their words and actions and he will ultimately destroy evil and Satan.

Interesting that Jacob in the opening scene was dressed in white and other man (Satan) in black.

During the episode Jacob is almost Omnipresent, turning up and aiding people. Like in the scene with Kate where she gets caught in the convenience store and he says “Your not going to steal anymore, are you?” and she says no and then Jacob says, “Be Good Katie”

In the scene with Locke, Jacob touches his dead body after the fall from the window and brings him back to life.

Jacob tells Hurley he has a choice. “ its your choice Hugo, You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to.”

And the end scene with Ben, Jacob tells Ben that he has a choice. Pretty much how the Bible describes our interaction with life. We have free will; we can choose to be good or bad.

Omnipotent or all powerful clues:
In Ben’s conversation with Sun. Sun asks, “What is Jacob like? Ben says, he is in charge of this Island.

Omniscient or all knowing clues:
In the opening scene: Man in black asks; “Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?” Jacob says “yes”, in a very calm voice. Man in black, “One of these days sooner or later I am going to find a loophole my friend.” Jacob answers, “Well when you do I will be right here.”
Jacob answers in an all knowing, Omniscient way, stating he knows how badly the man in Black (Satan) wants to kill him and with no fear, states “well I will be right here when you find the loophole.”

Richard does not age because of Jacob. Maybe Richard is one of Jacob’s (or God’s) angels. I think it was stated in an earlier episode that Richard’s role is to help guide, like an angel usually does.

Ok so those are my thoughts. I really don’t see the show following the Bible’s exact version of Good vs. Evil to a T, but you cannot deny that some of these similarities exist.

In regards to the cabin… a few people have said that they think it was Dark Locke in the cabin, pretending to be Jacob and giving Ben information – but didn’t Ben admit in this episode that he had never actually seen OR heard anything from Jacob?

I think that maybe the ashes in the circle around the cabin come from the fire pit that Jacob was pushed into, hence, the ashes are from Jacob’s “body. If so, then the question is – did Dark Locke put (or have someone else put) that circle there to keep Jacob trapped inside the cabin (hence, his plea to real Locke – “help me”), OR did one of Jacob’s followers put the ash circle around the cabin to protect Jacob, as I seem to remember that the main purpose of the circle was to prevent the smoke monster from entering? I’m not sure about the last part though – does anyone else remember?

And does anyone have any theories why Ilana would want to burn the cabin down? The way she took the scrap of material that was hanging on the wall…she seemed angry, so I would guess maybe that scrap was placed there by Dark Locke as a taunt of some sort. But I also don’t know why they wouldn’t have known about Jacob living in the statue all along and why they would have gone to the cabin in the first place?

Interesting idea about Jacob needing real Locke’s body close-by so that he could use it after he was killed… but I don’t think he knew for sure he was going to die. He gave Ben a choice – which seems like it’s a choice he’s given to every leader over the course of time – and that he has to let them do what they will (not defend himself), but Ben was the first one to actually kill him? Or do we think the leaders always choose to kill him? I have a hard time seeing that they would have both Dark Locke and Jacob inhabiting (or imitating) Locke’s body – having two of the same people running around would just be unnecessarily confusing. I do agree though, what a sad life for poor real Locke’s if this truly was his end.

He spends his entire youth picked on and made fun of, he spends his adult life in bad jobs, getting conned and manipulated by his dad, and then he get paralyzed and made fun of becuase of his dream to be something better than himself – a poor old cripple.

THEN, he makes it onto the island, has the ability to walk, spends the first season being a mysterious character who believes so deeply in the power of the island he’s willing to watch a young man die to open a hatch, press a button every 108 minutes and then…
he loses his faith, only to be proven wrong.
He embarks on a quest to get it back and just when he believes in himself again and is told he’s the one (by what I assume was AJ) is shot by Ben..
falls into a pit and thinks he’s dead…
all is lost..
BUT WAIT, walt (AJ again) shows up and inspires him to keep going. Locke continues on to become the new leader of the others….but it’s all just been a giant long con by AJ…
and Locke’s character, which started as a mysterious force of faith and belief is reduced to a duped over zealous idiot who got conned just cause he wanted to believe his life’s hardships actually were for some purpose.

THAT IS LAME.

My two favorite characters (Locke and Ben) are now reduced to complete moron who and patsy for some evil smoke monster…

LAME.

OR… someone else uses this ash circle to protect Jacob from Dark Locke, because wasn’t it shown before that the ash circle barred entry of the smoke monster (which we now believe is Dark Locke?)

And, where is Claire? I think she must be dead now, and died in that explosion a ways back…. but as someone else asked – can Dark Locke really imitate two people/bodies at one time? (Christian and Claire in the cabin?). Does anyone think Jacob = Christian and Dark Locke = Claire?

The shout out to Rose and Bernard, and Vincent, I guess was necessary (as was that brief scene with Walt), but it was an annoying way to essentially write off the characters (“here they are, stop asking about them”) nonetheless.

-Jacob and Esau. Plain as day. That doesn’t explain WHAT the Island is, though.

-Since the beginning, when we first heard Jacob’s name, I knew it couldn’t just be a name. I knew it was a Biblical reference.

-Everyone seems to think Jacob is evil for manipulating the lives of the Losties. But I don’t think so. I think he knew that they could help him. I still think it was his eye we saw, with the “help me.” He knew they could help him, so he came into their lives at a crucial point to get them to come to the Island.

- When (the real) John Locke fell from the building, I’m pretty sure he was dead. It wasn’t until Jacob touched him that he woke up, and from then on was paralyzed. Since I think Jacob is the Jacob/Israel from the Bible, he probably could have had that power. In the Old Testament, prophets have the power to heal the sick, just as Christ had in the New Testament.

- All the Losties are assuming that they’ll get blasted to 2004 and land at LAX, safe and sound, but Daniel didn’t say that exactly. He just said it will make it so none of this ever happens. He never said where they’d end up.

- If the time blasting works, Juliet and Sayid won’t be dead. I’m crossing my fingers with all I’ve got.

The introduction of the anti-jacob was totally intriguing, and I like how the whole scope of the struggle on the island changed. There was mention on a previous comment of how this whole story is like a camera that keeps panning further and further back to show the bigger picture, and I think that’s a very apt analogy. I am so excited for season 6. I have faith that this will all be resolved in a satisfactory fashion; they know all the pitfalls they have to avoid (the patrick duffy in the shower, twin peaks, yadda yadda yadda) and I think they will avoid them. And let’s not forget they’re working with the handicap of having these truncated seasons. Cut ‘em a little slack–the show is kickass overall, else we’d not be watching and getting all obsessed over it. Thanks so much for this blog and podcast, Ryan and Jen!

Some nuclear weapons physics: A hydrogen bomb releases the energy of nuclear fusion, that is the pressing together of the nuclear cores of atoms. That’s why it is called a “nuclear” bomb. An atom bomb (like the U.S. exploded over Nagasaki and Hiroshima in WW II) is puny be comparison, for it is a fissile explosion resulting from the fission (splitting) of some heavyweight atoms (uranium). In stark contrast, an “H-bomb” is a Hydrogen bomb because it fuses the simplest nuclear construct – that of the hydrogen atom. Fusion is the energy generation mechanism of the sun and stars. The immense gravity at the core of a massive entity like a star drives the fusion process. To detonate a nuclear (fusion; H) bomb requires similarly immense compressive force. In fact, the way an H-bomb works is to first explode an atom bomb, and directs its energy inward to cause the fusion to occur. A hydrogen bombs outer body is a containment vessel that redirects the outward energy inward. Pretty darn amazing, huh? Anyway, without such mechanisms in place, Juliet can not detonate a plutonium core.

I have many other thoughts, quite lengthy, that can be reached here: http://tr.im/lnmE

Namaste.

p.s. cried like a baby when juliette & sawyer said “goodbye” I am not so much a fan of these two and I am sure not a fan of Sawyer & Kate, but that’s probably because I just want James Ford all to myself….

I’m gonna have to watch parts of it again before posting.

“I believe that Jacob has obviously known for some time that the Anti-Jacob had found a loophole, and thus he knew what eventually would happen. He goaded Ben into killing him, even stepping closer to him prior to Ben stabbing him with the knife. We also saw the flashback of Jacob asking Ilana for help, although we weren’t given an indication of when and where that request for help happened.”

Excellent thought. I agree. What if the favor that Jacob asked of Ilana was to bring the real Locke’s body to him. If he knew that Ben would kill him, perhaps his soul in the form of a white smoke monster will inhabit the body that is sitting right outside the statue. He needs a new body to inhabit. Heck we could have the sides of good and evil both personified by Locke.

Absolutely love the podcast, and can’t wait to hear the podcast for The Incident.

I really like the idea of looking at the whole story as a chess game between good and evil, and it appears at this point that Jacob represents Good and the Anti-Jacob represents Evil. Along the lines of it being a game between the two, from the episode it appears that Jacob has the ability or at least the interest in selecting participants. For example, he led the Black Rock to the Island, as well as Flight 815 passengers (and even influenced Ajira 316 passengers as we saw with Hurley).

The Anti-Jacob appears to focus on influencing the island inhabitants to see if he can bring them over to the dark side. He is frustrated with Jacob wanting to continually play the game as he tells Jacob that it always ends the same. Thus he wants to kill Jacob to end the games.

I believe that Jacob has obviously known for some time that the Anti-Jacob had found a loophole, and thus he knew what eventually would happen. He goaded Ben into killing him, even stepping closer to him prior to Ben stabbing him with the knife. We also saw the flashback of Jacob asking Ilana for help, although we weren’t given an indication of when and where that request for help happened.

Who exactly was in the cabin is a question that could be played several ways. I tend to think that it was the Anti-Jacob that was trapped or caught in the cabin for some period of time. Ben thought that was the real Jacob, and was obviously jealous of Richard communication with Jacob, although Richard was in fact communicating with the real Jacob, located “in the shadow of the statue.”

I don’t believe the bomb exploded and instead the drilling and release of the energy led to one last time shift. A thought I had is that Sayid didn’t set the bomb to explode on impact, but instead put a delay. Perhaps a 108 minute delay?

I believe we will see the Dark/Dead Locke be the representation of the Anti-Jacob throughout Season 6, as the good side looks for a “candidate” to take the place of Jacob. I’m guessing it will be Jack, setting up continued friction and battles between Jack and Locke, but now on a grander scale. Ben will be interesting to watch, as he clearly succumbed to the Evil/Anti-Jacob influence, but will he redeem himself, or suffer guilt for realizing what he did by killing Jacob?

A final thought (if that’s really possible) is that it would not surprise me at all that we find out Widmore ends up being on the Good side, as the show constantly provides us character twists.

Overall, I thought it was a great finale!

Almost every religion that has ever existed has forces that work for good and forces that work for evil. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, Jews, Christians, Muslims etc.

We have Jacob and Esau, Archangel Michael and Satan, Horus and Set, Zeus and the Titans, and many, many others. Perhaps they are all the same, just interpreted and represented by various religions in different ways.

Jacob and the other entity represent those eternal forces that are fighting for the soul of men. Jacob believes in the inherent good in man. He believes man can find redemption. The other entity believes that man is inherently evil and that evil will prevail.

The island is their private battleground where they have brought men for all time to test them.

This is why Lost mixes religious motifs – all religions are basically one religion, just with different interpretations of God and the battle of good versus evil.

Jacob also had an Older Twin Brother named Esau. Esau was Isaac’s favorite and Jacob was Rebecca’s (Isaacs wife). Jacob eventlually went on to trick Isaac (with his mothers help into giving Jacob his “blessing ” which gives jacob dew from the heavens, fatness of the earth, and rulership over many nations, which includes his brother Esau. Esau comes back after the blessing is done and ask Issac for another blessing for himself, but Isaac does not and tells him “By your sword you shall live, but your brother you shall serve; yet it shall be that when you are aggrieved, you may cast off his yoke from upon your neck” (Genesis 27:39-40). This causes Esau to Hate his brother and gives him the desire to avenge his birthright and blessing once his father dies.

I really dont believe that the Jacob and “the other man” (Esau) are based soley on the Old Testament account, as some believe that the Old Testament account of Jacob and Esau are loosely based on an Egyptian legend known as The Contention of Horus and Set.

My two cents worth.

You’re welcome.

I can see Sawyer becoming Jack’s nemesis after witnessing Juliet getting sucked in the hole and eventually dying. I also can see Jack playing a big role for pro-Jacobs. Jack will eventually be the leader as the “Incident” could potentially revive Jacob. Sawyer will be a resentful SOB and eventually be part of the anti-Jacobs.

As for Kate, she will be just written off. Her character is poorly written and LOST is better than that.

Can’t wait for the Final Season.

Esau must have been planning hundreds of moves ahead in this infinite chess-match.

It happens again after John falls from the window and onto his back. Jacob shows up and says he’s “sorry this happened” and then vulcan-neck grabs him. Locke then goes through a long and arduos rehab where he is visited by Widmore’s right-hand man – Michael Abaddon – who tells him about the walkabout. (Theory – an angry, exhiled, embittered Widmore joined up with “Esau” and created the D.I.)

“Esau” took an interest in Locke just as Jacob was checking up on him and evidently realized he had found a “loophole” to be able to kill Jacob.

Dark Locke manipulates Richard to tell the real Locke, after getting shot by Ethan, to make sure he knows he’ll have to die. His death cleared the way for “Esau” to take his place in John’s skin and sneak right past all of Jacob’s people and get to Jacob.

Amazing how long in advance this game has been set-up! As we’ve seen Jacob popping up in all of the Losties’ lives, it may be we eventually see how “Esau” has done the same. For some time people have been commenting how everyone who was on the plane was no coincidence. Now it seems more evident than ever that Jacob and “Esau” needed to replenish their game pieces.

And do we find a similarity between the way in which Ben and Charles can’t kill each other and the way in which Jacob and “Esau” can’t kill each other? The rules?

Kudos to everybody who thought that Locke was still Dead!!