Next: “The Incident” (Episode 5-16/17)

The Season 5 finale gave us the widest view yet of what’s been unfolding on the The Island, and for that, I’m thrilled. But the Season 5 finale also honed in on some of our character’s most petty failings, and for that, we’re both somewhat annoyed. Frankly, Jen was livid. I like the suggestion that we’ve been watching only the latest round in a perpetual battle between light and dark — one in which our survivors finally opened a “loophole” for the dark forces to gain the upper hand. I don’t like the idea that the huge, dramatic, cataclysmic detonation of the Jughead core we’ve been building up to all season came only as the result of more twists in the “para-love-ogram.”

Let’s start with what I liked. Though “like” is dependent entirely on the foolhardy presumption that my interpretation of what we’ve seen with Jacob is right. Based solely on the opening scene, no less. To wit:

Jacob is light, goodness, benevolence. His nemesis, yet unnamed, is dark, petty, judgemental. Perhaps for an eternity, they have battled on The Island. But they cannot vanquish each other directly. The Island is largely the chess board, and the pieces are men. Imperfect, flawed humans. By the time the Black Rock arrives, they’ve been through the cycle many times. Jacob summoned another group, believing they might avoid self destruction. Darkness says, “It always ends the same.”

So the Black Rock, the Dharma Initiative, perhaps even The Others, and most certainly the survivors of Flight 815… each group came to the island, struggled over leadership, and self destructed.

Richard Alpert, perpetual advisor, serves Jacob by trying to guide and protect whomever is the leader: Eloise (who Richard called his leader in 1977), Ben (whom Richard and perhaps Jacob felt was ultimately an inadequate leader), and Locke (who Richard presumed to be special, even if it was Locke that gave him that idea in the first place). Darkness, meanwhile, acts through visions, or actually possessing the form of the dead. Christian Shephard. Alex. Perhaps Claire. And, yes, the late Locke, whom we now know isn’t Locke. We’ll call him Dark Locke.

Jacob is compassionate and feels for these flawed people. He visits them, literally touches them, perhaps merely knowing their path, or perhaps steering them. However the cycle ends, he knows it must end.

But something happened with Oceanic Flight 815. Something about this last cycle was different. And the why and how are, most likely, part of what awaits in Season Six. Nonetheless, the combination of The Incident, of Desmond turning the failsafe, of Eloise sending them back on Ajira 316 but scattering them through time — this whole convoluted series events, the entirety of the last five seasons of “LOST” — has led us to the loophole. The loophole that allowed Darkness to vanquish Jacob, with Ben as his instrument.

What is the loophole?

I can only guess by guessing at the rules. Only the leader can enter the temple. There can be only one leader. And the leader, essentially, decides who wins. Darkness, through manipulating the leader with visions and the reanimated dead, has probably brought the leader to Jacob dozens or hundreds of times. Each time, the leader has probably arrived, ready to reject and kill Jacob. But once inside, alone, Jacob appeals to the leader’s better self, gives them a choice, and they always choose light.

Darkness found his loophole through Locke. I’m not sure exactly when, but Locke had been the key for a while. Locke eventually died. And, yes, Locke is still dead. But with his body returned to the island, Darkness was able to take the form of Locke, becoming Dark Locke, and bewilder everyone  — including Ben and, curiously, Richard — with his knowledge of The Island. He asserts many times that he is the leader. And he repeatedly taunts Ben for never having made the cut with Jacob.

Dark Locke brings everyone to Jacob. He, the supposed leader, goes into Jacob’s lair, and insists on bringing Ben. Why? Because Ben is the leader. Ben’s been the leader ever since he returned on Ajira 316 and woke up in the infirmary, because Locke is still dead. That’s the loophole. And Dark Locke, having goaded Ben during the entire journey, looses his jealousy and insecurity and rage, and Ben, the leader, stabs Jacob and throws him into the fire.

The end?

Of course not. With his last breath, Jacob says, “They’re coming.” Who? My guess, perhaps obviously, is that “they” are everyone misplaced in time, back in 1977, who are near the Swan and subjected to the universe-twisting combination of electromagnetism and a hydrogen bomb blast. My guess for Season 6 is that everyone is reunited in 2007, but Darkness rules The Island, and the epic battle will be these imperfect, flawed humans trying to vanquish him.

But I could be completely wrong.

For example, where does the smoke monster fit? Is it an agent of Darkness? I’m inclined to think so, since it does stand in judgment of men, finding them unworthy and destroying them much as I imagine Darkness would. It could also be the agent through which Darkness assumes the form of the dead, such as both Alex and Dark Locke in the temple. Jen’s question, though, is how Ben became familiar enough with it to use it for his own means. It may be more likely that the smoke monster is a free agent.

Where do Bram and Ilana fit? Given the riddle, I guess they’re aligned with Alpert, and therefore presumably Jacob. What role will they play? I certainly hope it’s something more significant than teasing viewers with a mystery box for half a season. And if we now know that Ilana always knew Locke was in that box, she was obviously not surprised by seeing Dark Locke eating a mango in “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham.” How can she not be surprised by Dark Locke, but Alpert be apparently merely suspicious? And could they actually be agents of Darkness? After all, in the opening scene in the ancient past, it’s Darkness who calls Jacob “my friend.”

And if we’ve actually been watching pawns on a chess board, manipulated by Jacob and Darkness, it’d be somewhat disheartening to imagine that the longstanding battle between crafty and clever Ben and rich industrialist Charles Widmore is essentially insignificant. There has to be more to it.

Yet, Ben was goaded into killing Jacob after decades of servitude simply by becoming a petulant, whiny, sore loser. Juliet reverses herself halfway through the “Stop Jack” mission, simply because Sawyer looked at Kate funny. And Jack admits that his talk about destiny was all a crock: he wants to detonate a deadly hydrogen bomb simply because he blew it with Kate. Sayid is shot, valiantly rigs the bomb to go off on impact, but it doesn’t. Juliet dies, but doesn’t, but does, because Jack didn’t detonate the bomb, she did. And Miles gets the throwaway line about how their actions are creating the events they’re trying to stop… all bringing us to the big dramatic blast that wasn’t, because it was effectively “defused” by all the character machinations that led up to it.

The preceding paragraph is essentially why Jen went to bed angry. Here’s hoping she’s feeling a little more charitable by the time we record our podcast.

Notes and Notions:

  • Damon Lindeloff and Carlton Cuse hinted that the end of this Season 5 finale would be like the end of the Season 1 finale, and it was. Just as we saw nothing at the bottom of the hatch after Locke finally blew it open, we saw nothing after the bright white flash of Jughead. It’s a cliffhanger in only the faintest sense of the word. No tangible piece of what may come in Season 6 beyond “they’re coming.”
  • If the “what’s in the box” teases weren’t enough, what’s the deal with Hurley’s guitar case? We know Jacob gave it to him, which is great, but… really? Will we just not know? Or will it be blasted into 2007 alongside Hurley to taunt us in Season 6?
  • When Juliet said, “Live together, die alone,” didn’t you want to punch her in the face?
  • Juliet’s death was wrenching, but probably would’ve been moreso if she hadn’t essentially dumped Sawyer two scenes earlier. It doesn’t look good for Sayid, either. And while it was good to see Phil get skewered, I really felt Sawyer deserved to have his death under his belt, rather than a random pipe.
  • I’m not sure whether Jacob’s visits with all our characters were meant to direct them to their fates or change them. They made a point of showing him physically touch each of them, tapping Kate on the nose, holding young Sawyer’s hand a moment when handing him a pen. But it seems odd that Jacob helps revive Locke after falling from a high rise, but doesn’t do much more than give Jack an Apollo Bar.
  • I really liked how Rose and Bernard were handled, even if I’m pretty sure this is the last we’ll see of them (beyond perhaps more explicit confirmation that they’re the “Adam and Eve” skeletons from Season 1). Their dismay at being found was hilarious. They got the lives they always wanted, they retired from the cycle of violence, and they’re happy to die as long as they’re together. Aww…
  • We saw Vincent, too, but he’s now a mystery to me. If he survives the hydrogen bomb blast in 1977, he’s not likely to still be around in 2007. Unless he’s thrown through time along with Jack and friends. I can’t think of any other way Vincent makes it to the end of Season 6, as the creators seem to suggest he will.
  • I liked how Bram called Frank a “yahoo.” Since it turned out that Frank was only pretending to be unconscious, I would’ve enjoyed having him pop up to respond to the word like he did in Season 4. He also got the great line, “In my experience the people who go out of their way to tell you they’re the good guys are the bad guys.”
  • Talk about writing themselves out of a corner. Jughead already shrunk by several feet between “Jughead” and “Follow the Leader.” But after talking so much about its size and weight, turns out all we need is the core, which conveniently fits in a backpack. Now we can walk it over to the Swan!
  • Some of the flashbacks were so short, and linked so plainly to the scenes that followed, I would’ve rather not seen them. Juliet’s parents got divorced, so that’s why she dumps Sawyer! Sayid watched Nadia die in the street, so that’s why he’s ready to die after being shot! Jacob recruited Ilana, and Jacob put Hurley on Ajira 316! It felt off.
  • When Locke was thrown through the window, didn’t he bring a cascade of broken glass with him? The way he drops, singularly, with a thud before Jacob walks up seemed a bit strange. And were they suggesting Jacob saved Sayid’s life by pulling him back off the street?
  • I can forgive Miles’ anvilicious “what if this causes the incident” epiphany because he also had the great line after Jack said the plan is not to go back in time. “Right, because that would be ridiculous.”
  • Snarky Ben is fun. “I’m a Pisces.” Or, “I lied. It’s what I do.” Or when Sun asks Ben if he expects her to believe he doesn’t know about the statue. “Not really.”
  • I liked that Sun found Charlie’s Drive Shaft ring in Aaron’s old crib, and that Charlie was mentioned in Jacob’s conversation with Hurley (along with Libby). Interesting how some long lost characters still get shoutouts, while many others don’t.
  • Book: “Everything that Rises must Converge” by Flannery O’Connor. Interestingly, Jen’s working her way through an anthology of O’Connor short stories right now.
  • Locations: Too many to list completely. Sun and Jin got married at the Byodo-In Temple in Kaneohe. Locke fell out of the Waikiki Landmark highrise on Kalakaua Avenue in Waikiki. Young Kate shoplifted from a small store near Haleiwa (the name escapes me at the moment, but we mentioned it on our podcast). Young Sawyer’s funeral was at a church in Ewa Villages. Hurley was released from the Oahu Community Correctional Center on Dillingham Blvd. Nadia was killed at the corner of Auahi and Kamani streets off Ward.

What did you think? Comment below, call the LostLine at (808) 356-0127, or e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com.

456 Responses to “Next: “The Incident” (Episode 5-16/17)”

  1. Robert A. Jones says:

    Whoops. I stand corrected. Isaac’s wife is Rebbecca, not Rachael.

  2. Orjan says:

    I have a theory what the explosion did. The energy in the bomb did nothing what Faraday calculated. Instead the energy was absorbed by the “dark forces” in the island making them stronger and making the smoke monster. So in season 6 all will still be stuck in 1977 and they have to help Jacob fighting against the dark forces and find a way to return to the future.

  3. Geeky Tom says:

    I couldn’t believe Ryan would write something like: When Juliet said “Live Together, Die Alone”, I wanted to punch her in the face, until I realized he was referring to Roses’ line from “Through the Looking Glass”.
    This time around, when told that Jack is going to detonate a hydrogen bomb she says,”It’s always something with you people”. You gotta love her.
    Speaking of punching Juliet in the face, It was wonderful to see Phil meet his end. Flying steel rebar, even better than flaming arrows.

  4. Jack in Tokyo says:

    I thought Juliet’s departure could’ve been handled alot better.. I think after seeing her put everyone on the lifeboat back at the end of Season 4, alot of people knew then that she would never leave the Island, and when we saw her on the sub last week, somehow she was never going to get away. Her character was all about putting everyone else first, sometimes at great cost to herself and I thought the writers could could’ve packed a bigger emotional punch when she made her final sacrifice. I noticed that some feel that she might not be gone, but with Elizabeth Mitchell moving onto “V’ in the next season, I dont think we can expect to see her back.

  5. Mark B says:

    As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on this episode. I guess that means I didn’t think it was that good cause normally I find episodes good from the second they start to the finish.

    The thing I keep coming back to is Juilet’s fall into the shaft. It was so close to being a jump the shark moment you could touch the shark. She fell, what 100 feet plus, along with tonnes of metal and survives. Then she hits the innards of a hydrogen bomb (which was designed to explode on impact and has also fallen 100+ feet) with a small rock and it goes off ? Oh please.

    It’s not the killing of Juliet I mind (thou I do — kill off the only real relationship LOST has ever had) it’s that she survived the fall compounded with the bomb thing. Just have the bomb be dropped and her dragged into the shaft then the bomb go off …. if you want to make it more poiniant have her pulled in first then Jack drop the bomb after.

    Other than that liked the whole Jacob thing … but why kill him off staright away ?

    It’s going to be a long wait.

  6. John Fischer says:

    The statue – It is apparently Taweret.

    From the ABC website and the recap of The Incident Part 1:

    “The camera pulls back over the ocean, and we see they were sitting on the base of a giant stone foot. And next to the foot is another foot — and both feet have four toes. And as the camera pulls back, we see what we’ve been waiting to see since we first glimpsed that four-toed foot over three years ago… the towering, majestic statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret. And we clearly know we’re a long time ago, so let’s get the finale of season five started –“

  7. sadini says:

    Why do they always have to introduce secondary not-really-that-likeable characters, wait till they grow on us and then kill them off? Juliet’s death scene was downright cruel. I really won’t be able to take it if Sawyer is with Kate at any point in the next season.

    Actually, now I hope the explosion did change everything and the plane lands safely in LA, etc. Otherwise it’s gonna be too predictable: the losties go back to 2007, reunite with Sun, fake Locke and co, take part in the big battle for the destiny of the island, change sides a couple of times… Meh.

    Also, it was funny when Jin said that Jacob’s Korean was excellent. I don’t know Korean, but I speak Russian and in the hospital scene Jacob’s Russian was horrible.

  8. Jesse Again says:

    Ya wait a minute in this giant list of responses someone (sorry forgot who at this point) posted that Elle and a few others off the island with Ben were pretty adamant about making sure Locke got back to the island…

    were they AJ? are they working for him?

    AND MORE IMPORTANTLY…

    does this mean Kates vision about not taking Aaron back may actually have been the evil character tricking her…
    and maybe Aaron NEEDS TO GO BACK?

  9. sadini says:

    Also: Why do we stick to the idea that if the “reset” thing does work, the losties will not remember the island and everything that happened to them? After all, Marty McFly didn’t forget. 😉

  10. Laura says:

    Oh. My. God. AND Holy Frickin’ Crap

    Sorry I’m coming in late on this, but I was out of town Wednesday night and just watched it last night. My mind is blown. Lost was in my dreams. I could not get it out of my mind all night long. More and more scenes from earlier in the show kept occurring to me, seen in a totally different light.

    I also had a dream that if I went back in time I could stop my hot flashes. I woke up laughing from that one.

  11. Yann From France says:

    Pierre Chang did not lose his arm!
    Miles removed the hand from the beam before it got crushed!
    So: Time HAS changed!
    And Richard has not seen the losties being killed yet.

  12. Yann From France says:

    Supporting my claim:
    The Incident is the “beam” breaking through the magnetic thing and colapsing everything around it until the Swan is build to prevent that from happening releasing a small part every 108minutes.
    Pierre Chang should have lost his arm in the process but is “future” son came back and removed his hand from the beam before it colapsed.
    The “safety key” was a bomb near the magnetic core exploding but was deemed too dangerous to try by Razinski and Dharma and thus only use in case of necessity… but it worked.
    Now Juliet did that, but in 1977 so the hatch will not have to be build. So flight 815 will land to LAX…
    We know that time can be changed: Desmond did not know that he had to meet Daniel’s mother before he was told so by a time moving Daniel.
    So everything will change for everyone except for Desmond who will know that everything has changed!

    But we all know this won’t be what happen… and I have 1 good reason for that: Hurley’s guitar.

  13. Mirepoix from Mtl says:

    «Ille qui nos omnes servabit»
    Indeed it may mean
    The one who has saved us all (in past continuous)
    but servo has other meanings like observe or take care for or look after
    The use of the direct complement declension (omnes) makes me leaning towards both saving but also towards
    The one who has been observing us all (in past perfect)

    Now if Jacob had all these powers
    why would he let mere Ben pounce him ?

  14. bertran says:

    3 things:

    – like a few others have said: this better not be the end of Locke. that would be hugely dissapointing.

    – my only real prob with the ep is the non-reaction of ilana and her group. if they had the real locke in their box how could they possibly not react/take action when they saw other “locke” sitting on the beach. fairly ridiculous.

    – now even more curious bout hurley’s guitar case

  15. bertran says:

    p.s. incredible episode…most fun ive had watching television!

  16. iwantdesmondshair says:

    Quick question for those who liked this episode, have you been watching the show from the beginning?

    I’m in it for the long run no matter what happens but this episode really rubbed me the wrong way. The way info is being spoon fed to us takes away from the show. So many of the core aspects of the show are being lost, no pun intended. No Aaron, no numbers, a entire season without Claire, nothing surprising (I’m sorry but Locke being in that metal box was ultra obvious)

    I watch LOST for the mystery and sometimes less is more. I hope the writers realize the show is getting silly. For me the end of Season 3 was one of the most brilliant moments in TV because of the way the scene was handled.

    I digress, I just hope season 6 feels more like the LOST I have grown to love.

  17. Andrea says:

    Just a bit of trivia – Years ago I read an interview with Bruce Springsteen in which he mentioned that he was inspired by the writings of Flannery O’Connor.

  18. TVSciFi says:

    Chang’s arm was crushed, he might still need to amputate it. But it would be a good indication that time has changed if see him with both arms later.

  19. mamapax says:

    I too think you are a little hard on Juliet. she knew how Sawyer felt about Kate, as he had shared those feelings with her. I think her own insecurities from her previous marriage and all her manipulation by Ben, contributed her huge insecurities, and her personal belief that Sawyer could never love her as much as he loved Kate. She says to him, that she knows he would never leaver her, and she loves him for it, and it implies that she is willing to let him go so that he can pursue Kate. And besides, why the heck is Sawyer always looking at Kate…just maybe what Juliet perceives as the truth is the truth…until unfortunately like so many of us, Sawyer didn’t realize what he has until he lost it…

  20. atoms says:

    FWIW (and I hope this doesn’t get me in trouble: Several weeks ago on Youtube I stumbled across clip (an Easter egg?), now vanished, that featured Locke (military garb, swagger stick, red beret, pencil-thin moustache) and a young Charles Widmore. Widmore had apparently been captured during some sort of Others’ military exercise, and Locke was asking Widmore why he shouldn’t kill him for failing whatever it was Widmore was assigned to do. I assumed the clip would be part of a then-forthcoming season 5 episode, but obviously it wasn’t.

    Question: Am I crazy, or did anyone else also stumble across this?

  21. MLE in Colorado says:

    @Rich in Cleveland
    The thing is- the rainbow is there and then its gone – it may have been there when filming but why wouldnt they take it out? or digitize it in later in the scene when its gone? In any case- I had forgotten about young Faraday playing “I’m Alaways Chasing Rainbows” on the piano…and of course the flashes of light- and electromagnetism – and of course Oz…and Noah…

    I don’t think I will call in and sing to Ryan and Jen again though! 😉

    “Somewhere over the rainbow
    Way up high,
    There’s a land that I heard of
    Once in a lullaby.

    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Skies are blue,
    And the dreams that you dare to dream
    Really do come true…..”

  22. Astro1derboy says:

    I apologize if this has been mentioned before…but I think maybe Hurley’s guitar case is for Charlie at some point.

    Wild season finale. I love the fade to white with black LOST lettering, instead of vice versa as normal.

    I think the final season is going to be great.

    I didn’t feel as though this season really built up this huge climax for a finale…but really liked the finale anyway. (Heck, I’ve liked all of them this season.) Hard to believe we’ve come through six seasons of LOST already. I remember back during season one and just being mind-boggled. Now, here I am and still being blown away by the creativity and possibilities.

    It’s gonna be a long wait until next season…but then I won’t want it to end. Maybe if I detonate my hydrogen bomb at the Swan . . .

  23. Eva from Estonia says:

    ADAM/EVE

    About Rose and Bernard being Adam and Eve, do bodies really decompose into skeletons in just 30 years? I tried to find answers online, but couldn’t find anything about the exact time it would take human bodies to decompose in a cool, dry place like that cave. And, if our losties did flash into the future/past, I suspect R&B flashed with them.

    JACOB/ESAU

    I don’t buy the whole Jacob/Esau thing, the show is full of references that it interprets in a different way. So we will not have two characters out of the Bible, more likely we have references out of different religions (as one commentator before me already stated). The theme of Devil/God, Dark/Light and Evil/Good, dualities, in short, are the central theme of all belief systems, esoteric principles, spiritual ideologies, philosophy, theory of ethics and even science (opposites in electromagnetism etc).

    SCIENCE/FAITH

    And also the whole controversy between Man of Science and Man of Faith is not as poignant as many believe.

    Jack ( – Man of Science) has always had faith to an extent. Faith that if only he does his best things will work out, he can be the hero to save the day. Also, belief in science is in a way also just a belief system – the belief that tangible things are all that exist and that things are made tangible by measuring or empirically investigating them.

    Locke ( – Man of Faith) has always been a man of science, too. Early in the first season he had various scenes in which he proved his deep knowledge in biology (remember moths and boars). His intuitive insight into his fellow losties (Charlie and Jack) left an impression that he’s got a PhD in psychology.

    CHARACTER DEATHS

    I will be very pissed to find out that Juliet’s really dead. More pissed than about Locke (in the end of season 4) or Sayid (neeh he’s become boring anyway) or Charlie (his story had been told) or Kate (I’m one of the few Kate-fans) or Jacob (didn’t know him, don’t care. Besides, if the first 5 min of the finale matter at all, Jacob’s not… ya know… D.E.A.D.)

    LASTLY

    In the end of every season I’m forced to re-think and even re-watch the show because each finale just puts the previous episodes in a totally different perspective.

    P.S. I’m a champ AND have too much free time ’cause I’ve read each and every post here:P

  24. AGUS FROM ARGENTINA says:

    WHY DID POOR JULIET HAD TO DIE?? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY???
    i saw it coming, but she didn’t deserve it. whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

  25. Jim says:

    Seems like most of you all assume Juliet is dead. Why is this any different from Jin last year or Desmond/Locke/Ecko In Season 2?

    I’m confident Juliet will be back and not as a ghost or flashback. There is this variable called the Audience and they demand her safe return.

    Question – Why didn’t Jin fight Jack about his plan? His baby would never be born. Something totally overlooked.

  26. atoms says:

    First: Sincere thanks to the mods for allowing my last post to go up. This has been troubling me deeply for weeks now. I saw the clip in question on Youtube in late February, early March. I’m very respectful of many viewers’ desire to remain spoiler-free and thus held my tongue until now.

    Scene: Tent in Others camp. Young Widmore, hands tied behind back (?), brought in by two Others holding him by the upper arms. Locke, in full Colonel Kurtz get-up and, again, with pencil-thin moustache (think: Guy Williams during his Zorro days), begin questioning Widmore. My recollection is, the Others under Locke’s command were performing some sort of military defensive training exercises and young Widmore allowed himself to be taken captive. Obviously, I can’t recite the dialogue chapter and verse but the clip ends with mustachioed Locke asking Widmore why he shouldn’t kill him for failing to perform his assigned mission.

    My assumption at the time I saw the clip was that in some coming Season 5 episode a flash would occur, Locke would end up with the Others for some extended period before the US Army arrived with Jughead, took command, and was organizing the Others for a defense against the Army.

    Obviously, this didn’t occur in Season 5.

    So, what am I to make of this?

    You tell me: Was it an S5 outtake that made its way onto Youtube? Did they already begin filming scenes from season 6 during season 5, and is this a preview?

    The fact that this didn’t make it into season 5 has me utterly perplexed. What In God’s name did I see, and why was it out there in the wild?

    I would truly, truly appreciate it if someone would confirm that they, too, saw this clip.

  27. Matt says:

    Jacob is Horus. Esau is Set. Statue is Sobek.

    Set was the evil guy. He tore up Osiris and sent him afloat. Sobek, the god of earth wind, water, and fire rescued Osiris, allowing him to conceive Horus, the good guy, who was raised on an island. Horus became buddies with Sobek, hence him living in his statue. Set then battled Horus for 80 years, tearing out his eye. Maybe that has to do with the eye in the Arrow. Set vs Horus was the classic Satan vs Jesus in Egypt. I can’t explain Annubis/monster being there though…

  28. Eva from Estonia says:

    atoms,

    do you have a link for this clip? Never seen, never heard, but I’m intrigued…

  29. atoms says:

    No, unfortunately I don’t. I’ve tried numerous times to rediscover it without luck. Best I can recall I was simply searching for “Lost ABC” on Youtube, followed one link after another and it fell into my lap.

    Knowing what we all know now, the mustachioed, sinister Locke I saw certainly seems to be “dark Locke.”

    I’m just hoping someone, somewhere out there can help assure me I haven’t gone off the deep end.

    Locke’s wearing a red beret, has a villianous thin moustache, and is asking the young Widmore why he shouldn’t kill him. Maybe you can find it.

  30. atoms says:

    Thought re: mystery clip: Dark Locke isn”t drilling the Others against arrival of US Army, rather, he’s drilling them against arrival of whomever it is Jacob warned of before dying in season 5 finale.

  31. atoms says:

    In the clip, Locke comes off like a bizarre combination of Telly Savalas in “Beau Geste” and Snidely Whiplash from the Dudley DooRight cartoons.

  32. Stubble says:

    @Jesse Again

    The first Greek quote (shown in the beginning) is spoken by Odysseus to Nausicaa when she discovers him and offers to help him.

  33. Stubble says:

    There are three hints showing that Christian Shephard is real: the tennis shoes, the fact that Jack opened his coffin and he was missing, unlike Locke who was indeed in the coffin, and the fact that he tried to get the O6 back, which was also what Jacob wanted (as his visit to Hurley showed). Christian never interacted with the fake Locke post-316; he only interacted with the real Locke and he was indeed speaking on Jacob’s behalf.

    Christian’s shoes that Ray gave to Jack will be the clue that Jack will need to recognize the “real” dead Locke from the fake one walking on the Island.

  34. Though I enjoyed the twist. I will feel sad if Dark Locke is all we see next season. I wanted our good John Locke to triumph in the end. To be one with the Island and win.
    I was also disappointed by the choice to kill Juliet. She’s one of the best actors on the show. Even when she has cheesy lines, and forced scenes… she makes them genuine.
    I thought it was a classy choice for her to break up with Sawyer before her “I love you death”. It broke the cliche and made it more genuine and heart rending.
    Due to the blast of season finally I returned from 2011 to give you the spoilers of what happend on Lost in it’s sixth season.

    Predictions for next season:
    Miles was right. So was everyone else who saw it telegraphed. The losties caused the incident. What happened happened.

    But Faraday was also right. It did change things.

    In the 6th season there is duel timelines of both sets of Losties. The first set is simply blasted back to 2007 on the island. The other set land in LAX and are living their lives. The writers then, entertwine the stories, as they love to do. Telling in the same episode how the characters are doing on the island and off the island.

    Dead: Faraday, Juliet stay dead and Sayid dies by episode 3. (He’s tough he takes a long time to bleed out)
    Most characters that have died come back for guest appearances. This includes Libby and Boone but not Mr. Ecco.

    Rose and Bernard become central characters. Phil lives, and is their antagonist.

    In the future, where I’m from, the fans are so angry at the writers for such bad choices all around that, by the 9th episode of Lost final season the fans have stopped watching lost in mass protest. They then start to follow My Name is Earl. Which by 2010 has a intriguing and complicated plot line much like that of Lost before the final season.

    the future is grim guys but the economy fully recovers due to the massive increase in productivity of all office workers. In the future office workers are no longer addicted the lost podcasts or the message boards.

    That is until the Lost spinoff show:

    A sitcom similar to the Odd Couple called “Down the Hatch”. It Stars Radzinsky and Inman and the ghost of Anna Lucia. Vincent makes Guest appearances.

  35. Eva from Estonia says:

    @ atoms
    I really hope you’re not joking but I had quite a good laugh picturing the scene. Locke and a red beret hahahahaaa:D

    But seriously, no, never heard:/

    @ Stubble

    But Christian told Sun & Lapidus to wait for Locke (de Dark One). Then again, I suspect 2007 Christian was co-existing with Dark Locke so he couldn’t have been possessed by AJ. AJ can’t possess two bodies at the same time, can he?

  36. NuckinFuts says:

    Funny predictions there Jonathan, Bushwick, Brooklyn – – would love to see “Down the Hatch”.

    I have to say the first time I watched the episode Wed. I was not in love with it…But…I watched it a 2nd time and it really was a lot better than I had thought. I think you should watch a 2nd time before the Podcast Ryan & Jen…but I can agree w/ some of your post.

    I have read every post here and I AM SHOCKED we have not touched on a few things. ( I mean there are about 334 posts so far )

    1st – Didn’t anyone catch the “Jaws” ending? “Die you Son-of-a-bitch” then _______ BLAMMO the white light!!!! Even if you expected the Jughead ending it or were upset about the fact Juliet lived through the fall you had to love that!!!. I remember Sawyer singing “Show me the way to go home” a few seasons ago.

    2nd – Nobody mentioned that Jack’s story to Kate about his 1st operation when he ripped the “Dural Sac?” was a partial lie. It seemed like Jack decided to do this on his own, however, he gave no credit to his father being there to calm him down. In fact … he sort of owes his father credit for being calm. I think this is important to know motivational wise. What did Christian say? “Are you sure I don’t think you’re good enough”.

    I’m sure soon I’ll post a full-on theory but it would sound much like an incorporation of many above and parts of mine from last week – but not R.A. being Smokey as I was thinking then – – thanks for mention on the Podcast by the way – – I am still convinced there may be more than 1 smoke monster…I mean if Smokey # 1 is in fact “Jacob’s enemy” and can manifest himself into dead bodies then it’s only fair that Jacob could do something similar.

    PS – – My suggestion name for “Anti-Locke” / AJ / “Jacob’s Enemy”, “Dead-Locke” etc : :

    A – “Not-Locke”
    B – “Flocke” – – an homage to the now useless “Fenry” for Fake Herny / Ben and in a way he is Fake-Locke.

    I’m sure there’s a Poll somewhere.

  37. Eva from Estonia says:

    @ Jonathan from Brooklyn

    LOL:D

    But actually, giving us two alternate realities sound pretty good. Now’s the time to email to Damon & Carlton… or post it on Youtube and make a million bucks. (<- Heroes reference back when the show was watchable)

    Hey it just occurred to me. At least they’ll never ever f*** Lost up like Tim Kring did with Heroes.

  38. Rich in Cleveland says:

    The Guardians Theory.
    Jacob and his antagonist have been on earth for ages, beyond any original memory, impervious to the effects of time, yet mortal in that they are able to be killed. They were placed here to conduct the grand social experiment of life with humans as primary subjects. Hence, the dark man’s comment about Jacob still trying to disprove his prevailing thesis that human beings are inherently corrupt and represent a failed avenue of creation. As long as the balance between dark and light was maintained, the experiment could continue in this snow globe of a laboratory. But although the dark player got the upper hand on Jacob via the loophole, there’s some consequnce he couldn’t see: “They’re coming.” Is this some destructive host come to call a halt to the experiment? It’s a more interesting explanation to me than just a referral to the return of the 815er’s. After all, if Anti-Jacob orchestared all these elaborate chess moves involving all of Jacob’s chosen over many shifting planes of time, wouldn’t he be able to see the 815er’s coming back after The Incident? I was really hoping we would see something else in the crate, something monstrous, to show us more powerfully “what we’re up against.” Alas.

  39. MLE in Colorado says:

    @ Mike St Louis and @Big Jim:
    I was wondering about the Red Herring that Jacob caught and ate in the opening scene as well- I was thinking a lot (yes too much…) that the meal that Jacobs cooks his father is a “Red Stew” and then I started thinking about Charolotte’s red Hair and how well she spoke Korean and how well Jacob spoke and got completely off track…but the Red Herring seems to be important- I think – as you all might agree that Red Herrings appear in this show a lot…but that was a significant place to put it…so what does that mean?

    From Wikepedia (which I make fun of as much as I live by):
    Red herring (logical fallacy), a deliberate attempt to change a subject or divert an argument
    Red herring (narrative), a technique used in literature to mislead the audience

    so how are we being mislead? or how will we be? I am wondering if it has to do with assuming who is Good and Evil which is something I have brought up in posts many times- when everyone said Ben was Bad- I wondered “How Bad?” or Locke was good “How good?”

    I like the idea of Jacob nudging people along and hoping with their free will they will choose the “right path.” This alone can be construed both ways.

  40. Moriah says:

    I’m a bit behind in reading but I’m watching the clip show from before the finale and noticed that Damon and Carlton said that Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid ended up in 1977 because they didn’t create 815 perfectly. So I’m going to theorize that it is more likely that Hawking at the very least is working for Jacob. Here’s why: earlier this season, she answered Ben’s question of “what if I can’t get them all to come back” with “then God help us all.” I think it is likely that had Walt, Aaron, Ji Yong and Desmond come back, Jacob’s fate would have been different. I think it will take the involvement of the other four (maybe Penny included) to make it so that Jacob can regain control from Anti-Jacob. Since Eloise said “may *God* help us all,” I also wouldn’t be surprised if killing Jacob somehow propels his spirit off the island and it will literally be Jacob who gets those four back to the island. If his “death” doesn’t propel him, perhaps he will go off the island some other way to get the remaining four.

    I know people don’t often give the clip show a lot of credit for doing much of anything but it’s been very interesting to watch in this new perspective.

    Not really related: I was also thinking that it’s interesting how so many fans have mentioned that “Locke” has been looking really good sense returning from the dead. Make-up and wardrobe had to have done that on purpose. Nice touch that the Devil (who I still feel Anti-Jacob most likely represents) would be attractive.

  41. Mirepoix from Mtl says:

    I never cease to be amazed how this show and this blog bring people from al over the world together…

    Wow Stubble Great Greek translation
    Even better, it truly makes sense
    Yann makes sense about the fail safe key and the release button

    Regarding Jacob’s meetings with Losties
    Of note is the fact that Sayid is met only after coming back
    Probably Ilana too
    but she was obvously knowing him

    Scientific notes about the drilling (by an engineer)
    Seems like the DI sunk a well for about one hundred feet
    then resorted to drilling with large core size bits for probably a few hundred feet more
    So this pocket of energy
    although detectable was very deep down the earth
    What can be this EM source?
    Probably the same source as the FDW… ET ?

    Another question
    What is the reason for the conflict between Jacob and his «friend» ?

  42. Bonita (from Atlanta) says:

    Wow! More nearly 350 comments! Woohoo!

  43. Stubble says:

    @Eva from Estonia

    Christian said that Sun needed to go with Fake Locke, because Fake Locke would take her to the Others as he poses as the “Leader”. It does not mean that Christian approves of Fake Locke. Indeed, why would Christian show up and say anything to Sun if he was fake? If he was fake, he would have no interest in helping Sun, since Sun has done nothing to further the plan to kill Jacob.

    Clearly, Fake Locke doesn’t care one bit about Sun or being reunited with his people. So, why does Fake Locke allow Sun to tag along, acts nice to her, and promises to help her several times, each time finding something he “has to do first”? He lets Sun tag along, because he wants to maintain his cover, and for no other reason. Dropping Sun would be not in keeping with Locke’s character and would tip Ben that something was amiss.

  44. Carol says:

    Lots of people talking about Faux Locke being Smokey. I think Smokey is a tool that is used but is not Faux Locke. It seems to take human forms for short periods of time. But we can’t even be positive that these forms are smokey. How can we even be sure that smokey was Yemi or Alex? Could they have been two seperate things? We kept being told Smokey is a security device.

    I need to watch the episode again. Lots of great theories here. My friends that don’t go to the boards are totally confused.

    @Stubble – good observations. I think your theory re: Sun is correct.

  45. Rich in Cleveland says:

    @Mirepoix
    This truly is the world’s show. It’s a beautiful thing.

  46. Carol says:

    Anybody figure out the tapestry yet? Here is a screencap.
    http://spoilertv.iimmgg.com/image/4f0c0f11e09a18231b5e2725d57ac4cf

  47. AnnLouise says:

    @Atoms, you could be seeing a clip from an old Fox show called “Harsh Realm” – it was a Chris Carter show which only lasted a few episodes. Terry O’Quinn appeared in both the XFiles TV show and the first movie, so he was part of the Chris Carter Players.

  48. Moriah says:

    Alright, I’ve read everything now and I’m watching the finale. I’m amazed by everyone’s thoughts and theories. I also am fully aware that everyone is going to view the episode differently in terms of liking it or not, or something in between. In general, I do wish people would give the writers more credit. I agree that it’s not the shocking moment that we got at the end of Season 3. Instead of one crazy moment at the end, though, we got an entirely new perspective for almost the entire episode. It doesn’t have the same bang, holy crap, pee your pants punch but I’m not sure we should expect that out of the writers as much as we do. For one thing, it’s a storytelling cheat to not give clues to where the story could be leading and, frankly, the way we analyze this show so much, it would be very hard to give us the same reaction we got with the Season 3 finale without either not giving clues (thus cheating) or people putting those clues together (not likely given the track record of the fan base). I know that’s not the only complaint and I can see how other individual problems can lead to more frustrations with the show but all the mythology coming out in this episode, even if it was or wasn’t exactly how we expected, made it very worthwhile to me at least.

    Now, the main reason I’m writing. Some people have been wondering about who had been inhabiting Jacob’s cabin. At first I thought it was pretty simple … either Anti-Jacob or Christian (or both, if they’re one in the same). But seeing the scene again where Ilana and Co come across the cabin again, I’m beginning to agree with those who don’t think Jacob’s cabin ever really was Jacob’s cabin. Ilana and Co looked down right terrified when they realized the ash circle was no longer complete. I don’t think they’d be scared of that if it only meant that Jacob was gone. I think it is possible that the cabin and the ash around it was originally a way to keep Anti-Jacob contained. I think Anti-Jacob was probably there even when Ben came to visit but didn’t show himself to Ben (that is, if Ben ever really visited it other than the time he took Locke). I believe it was Anti-Jacob reacting when Locke turned on the flashlight. I’m not sure how the ash circle was broken … did we ever see anything that could have broken it? I had originally thought that Anti-Locke was using Christian’s form in much the same way he used Locke’s but now I’m not so sure. It seems more likely to me that something else is going on with Christian (and Claire) and that they were the ones Ilana said we using it since Anti-Locke was gone.

  49. Mark in Omaha says:

    wow. Lots of stuff to discuss.
    — Jacob appears to be the good guy….except for the scene in which he allows Nadia to get run over by a car. Not so nice. Why didn’t he prevent that, seeing as he’s all-knowing?

    — We see flashbacks of Jacob meeting with all the Losties BEFORE the ill-fated plane, except for Hurley and Sayid. Both of those encounters came AFTER they returned from the island. Not sure what to make of that, but it did stick out to me.

    — I’m guessing that the real Locke is going to be coming back in season 6, either by divine (i.e. Jacob) intervention or due to the return of the other Losties. No proof of this, but he’s just to integral a part of the story to be gone for good.

    — the scene with Ilana in the hospital was interesting. What language was that? Why was she there? How does she know Jacob, and why was she so willing to help him? Why did he need her so bad? Season 6 can’t come soon enough.

    — thoughts about Non-Locke… First off, he doesn’t seem to know where Jacob lives, since he needed Richard to direct the way. That’s odd, since we saw him with Jacob at the beginning of the episode next to the statue, where Jacob specifically tells him that when he finds a loophole, “I’ll be right here.” Also, Non-Locke didn’t know Ben had had an encounter with his daughter Alex in Smokie’s lair, at least it appeared that he genuinely had no idea and was curious how the encounter went. Is it possible that Ben’s daughter appeared at the behest of someone, or something, else? On the other hand, could Non-Locke and Smokie be one and the same?

    — I’ve seen some posts on the web that believe Jacob is Sobek (also the statue), guardian of RA and head of the gods, while Non-Locke is his nemesis Apep, the god of darkness and who was often seen as a void, black hole or dark snake. Interesting, don’t you think?

  50. ethan says:

    Next season the answer to the question will really be ‘Who/What is the LIE / liar at the base of the statue?’

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