Next: “The Incident” (Episode 5-16/17)

The Season 5 finale gave us the widest view yet of what’s been unfolding on the The Island, and for that, I’m thrilled. But the Season 5 finale also honed in on some of our character’s most petty failings, and for that, we’re both somewhat annoyed. Frankly, Jen was livid. I like the suggestion that we’ve been watching only the latest round in a perpetual battle between light and dark — one in which our survivors finally opened a “loophole” for the dark forces to gain the upper hand. I don’t like the idea that the huge, dramatic, cataclysmic detonation of the Jughead core we’ve been building up to all season came only as the result of more twists in the “para-love-ogram.”

Let’s start with what I liked. Though “like” is dependent entirely on the foolhardy presumption that my interpretation of what we’ve seen with Jacob is right. Based solely on the opening scene, no less. To wit:

Jacob is light, goodness, benevolence. His nemesis, yet unnamed, is dark, petty, judgemental. Perhaps for an eternity, they have battled on The Island. But they cannot vanquish each other directly. The Island is largely the chess board, and the pieces are men. Imperfect, flawed humans. By the time the Black Rock arrives, they’ve been through the cycle many times. Jacob summoned another group, believing they might avoid self destruction. Darkness says, “It always ends the same.”

So the Black Rock, the Dharma Initiative, perhaps even The Others, and most certainly the survivors of Flight 815… each group came to the island, struggled over leadership, and self destructed.

Richard Alpert, perpetual advisor, serves Jacob by trying to guide and protect whomever is the leader: Eloise (who Richard called his leader in 1977), Ben (whom Richard and perhaps Jacob felt was ultimately an inadequate leader), and Locke (who Richard presumed to be special, even if it was Locke that gave him that idea in the first place). Darkness, meanwhile, acts through visions, or actually possessing the form of the dead. Christian Shephard. Alex. Perhaps Claire. And, yes, the late Locke, whom we now know isn’t Locke. We’ll call him Dark Locke.

Jacob is compassionate and feels for these flawed people. He visits them, literally touches them, perhaps merely knowing their path, or perhaps steering them. However the cycle ends, he knows it must end.

But something happened with Oceanic Flight 815. Something about this last cycle was different. And the why and how are, most likely, part of what awaits in Season Six. Nonetheless, the combination of The Incident, of Desmond turning the failsafe, of Eloise sending them back on Ajira 316 but scattering them through time — this whole convoluted series events, the entirety of the last five seasons of “LOST” — has led us to the loophole. The loophole that allowed Darkness to vanquish Jacob, with Ben as his instrument.

What is the loophole?

I can only guess by guessing at the rules. Only the leader can enter the temple. There can be only one leader. And the leader, essentially, decides who wins. Darkness, through manipulating the leader with visions and the reanimated dead, has probably brought the leader to Jacob dozens or hundreds of times. Each time, the leader has probably arrived, ready to reject and kill Jacob. But once inside, alone, Jacob appeals to the leader’s better self, gives them a choice, and they always choose light.

Darkness found his loophole through Locke. I’m not sure exactly when, but Locke had been the key for a while. Locke eventually died. And, yes, Locke is still dead. But with his body returned to the island, Darkness was able to take the form of Locke, becoming Dark Locke, and bewilder everyone  — including Ben and, curiously, Richard — with his knowledge of The Island. He asserts many times that he is the leader. And he repeatedly taunts Ben for never having made the cut with Jacob.

Dark Locke brings everyone to Jacob. He, the supposed leader, goes into Jacob’s lair, and insists on bringing Ben. Why? Because Ben is the leader. Ben’s been the leader ever since he returned on Ajira 316 and woke up in the infirmary, because Locke is still dead. That’s the loophole. And Dark Locke, having goaded Ben during the entire journey, looses his jealousy and insecurity and rage, and Ben, the leader, stabs Jacob and throws him into the fire.

The end?

Of course not. With his last breath, Jacob says, “They’re coming.” Who? My guess, perhaps obviously, is that “they” are everyone misplaced in time, back in 1977, who are near the Swan and subjected to the universe-twisting combination of electromagnetism and a hydrogen bomb blast. My guess for Season 6 is that everyone is reunited in 2007, but Darkness rules The Island, and the epic battle will be these imperfect, flawed humans trying to vanquish him.

But I could be completely wrong.

For example, where does the smoke monster fit? Is it an agent of Darkness? I’m inclined to think so, since it does stand in judgment of men, finding them unworthy and destroying them much as I imagine Darkness would. It could also be the agent through which Darkness assumes the form of the dead, such as both Alex and Dark Locke in the temple. Jen’s question, though, is how Ben became familiar enough with it to use it for his own means. It may be more likely that the smoke monster is a free agent.

Where do Bram and Ilana fit? Given the riddle, I guess they’re aligned with Alpert, and therefore presumably Jacob. What role will they play? I certainly hope it’s something more significant than teasing viewers with a mystery box for half a season. And if we now know that Ilana always knew Locke was in that box, she was obviously not surprised by seeing Dark Locke eating a mango in “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham.” How can she not be surprised by Dark Locke, but Alpert be apparently merely suspicious? And could they actually be agents of Darkness? After all, in the opening scene in the ancient past, it’s Darkness who calls Jacob “my friend.”

And if we’ve actually been watching pawns on a chess board, manipulated by Jacob and Darkness, it’d be somewhat disheartening to imagine that the longstanding battle between crafty and clever Ben and rich industrialist Charles Widmore is essentially insignificant. There has to be more to it.

Yet, Ben was goaded into killing Jacob after decades of servitude simply by becoming a petulant, whiny, sore loser. Juliet reverses herself halfway through the “Stop Jack” mission, simply because Sawyer looked at Kate funny. And Jack admits that his talk about destiny was all a crock: he wants to detonate a deadly hydrogen bomb simply because he blew it with Kate. Sayid is shot, valiantly rigs the bomb to go off on impact, but it doesn’t. Juliet dies, but doesn’t, but does, because Jack didn’t detonate the bomb, she did. And Miles gets the throwaway line about how their actions are creating the events they’re trying to stop… all bringing us to the big dramatic blast that wasn’t, because it was effectively “defused” by all the character machinations that led up to it.

The preceding paragraph is essentially why Jen went to bed angry. Here’s hoping she’s feeling a little more charitable by the time we record our podcast.

Notes and Notions:

  • Damon Lindeloff and Carlton Cuse hinted that the end of this Season 5 finale would be like the end of the Season 1 finale, and it was. Just as we saw nothing at the bottom of the hatch after Locke finally blew it open, we saw nothing after the bright white flash of Jughead. It’s a cliffhanger in only the faintest sense of the word. No tangible piece of what may come in Season 6 beyond “they’re coming.”
  • If the “what’s in the box” teases weren’t enough, what’s the deal with Hurley’s guitar case? We know Jacob gave it to him, which is great, but… really? Will we just not know? Or will it be blasted into 2007 alongside Hurley to taunt us in Season 6?
  • When Juliet said, “Live together, die alone,” didn’t you want to punch her in the face?
  • Juliet’s death was wrenching, but probably would’ve been moreso if she hadn’t essentially dumped Sawyer two scenes earlier. It doesn’t look good for Sayid, either. And while it was good to see Phil get skewered, I really felt Sawyer deserved to have his death under his belt, rather than a random pipe.
  • I’m not sure whether Jacob’s visits with all our characters were meant to direct them to their fates or change them. They made a point of showing him physically touch each of them, tapping Kate on the nose, holding young Sawyer’s hand a moment when handing him a pen. But it seems odd that Jacob helps revive Locke after falling from a high rise, but doesn’t do much more than give Jack an Apollo Bar.
  • I really liked how Rose and Bernard were handled, even if I’m pretty sure this is the last we’ll see of them (beyond perhaps more explicit confirmation that they’re the “Adam and Eve” skeletons from Season 1). Their dismay at being found was hilarious. They got the lives they always wanted, they retired from the cycle of violence, and they’re happy to die as long as they’re together. Aww…
  • We saw Vincent, too, but he’s now a mystery to me. If he survives the hydrogen bomb blast in 1977, he’s not likely to still be around in 2007. Unless he’s thrown through time along with Jack and friends. I can’t think of any other way Vincent makes it to the end of Season 6, as the creators seem to suggest he will.
  • I liked how Bram called Frank a “yahoo.” Since it turned out that Frank was only pretending to be unconscious, I would’ve enjoyed having him pop up to respond to the word like he did in Season 4. He also got the great line, “In my experience the people who go out of their way to tell you they’re the good guys are the bad guys.”
  • Talk about writing themselves out of a corner. Jughead already shrunk by several feet between “Jughead” and “Follow the Leader.” But after talking so much about its size and weight, turns out all we need is the core, which conveniently fits in a backpack. Now we can walk it over to the Swan!
  • Some of the flashbacks were so short, and linked so plainly to the scenes that followed, I would’ve rather not seen them. Juliet’s parents got divorced, so that’s why she dumps Sawyer! Sayid watched Nadia die in the street, so that’s why he’s ready to die after being shot! Jacob recruited Ilana, and Jacob put Hurley on Ajira 316! It felt off.
  • When Locke was thrown through the window, didn’t he bring a cascade of broken glass with him? The way he drops, singularly, with a thud before Jacob walks up seemed a bit strange. And were they suggesting Jacob saved Sayid’s life by pulling him back off the street?
  • I can forgive Miles’ anvilicious “what if this causes the incident” epiphany because he also had the great line after Jack said the plan is not to go back in time. “Right, because that would be ridiculous.”
  • Snarky Ben is fun. “I’m a Pisces.” Or, “I lied. It’s what I do.” Or when Sun asks Ben if he expects her to believe he doesn’t know about the statue. “Not really.”
  • I liked that Sun found Charlie’s Drive Shaft ring in Aaron’s old crib, and that Charlie was mentioned in Jacob’s conversation with Hurley (along with Libby). Interesting how some long lost characters still get shoutouts, while many others don’t.
  • Book: “Everything that Rises must Converge” by Flannery O’Connor. Interestingly, Jen’s working her way through an anthology of O’Connor short stories right now.
  • Locations: Too many to list completely. Sun and Jin got married at the Byodo-In Temple in Kaneohe. Locke fell out of the Waikiki Landmark highrise on Kalakaua Avenue in Waikiki. Young Kate shoplifted from a small store near Haleiwa (the name escapes me at the moment, but we mentioned it on our podcast). Young Sawyer’s funeral was at a church in Ewa Villages. Hurley was released from the Oahu Community Correctional Center on Dillingham Blvd. Nadia was killed at the corner of Auahi and Kamani streets off Ward.

What did you think? Comment below, call the LostLine at (808) 356-0127, or e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com.

456 Responses to “Next: “The Incident” (Episode 5-16/17)”

  1. Judi From Ont. Canada says:

    Wow! First off I loved this episode! Not sure yet if it is my fav., but it is defintely in the running!
    From the first scenes with Jacob and his “Friend” I was totally getting a “Seventh Sign” Vibe. Does anyone else remember that movie? Basically the movie is about impending armaggedon, a woman (played by Demi Moore) who is about to give birth learns that there are no more souls in the soul “well”. Anyway she ends up giving her life so that the well is replenished and the world is saved from the final seal being broken. Not sure about this theory, however the interaction between Jacob and the other guy gives the impression that Jacob totally believes in human kind and the other guy does not and would do away with it all.
    I’m also left wondering if we will get a Juliet episode like desmond had after he turned the key, or if there is not enough time left and she is just dead, saddness!
    Also I believe the group that Jacob refered to as he was dying is Jacks group, and that possibly Hugo has something in the guitar case that will either be used to fight Bad Locke or “resurect” Jacob after they arrive.
    And I actually shouted at the tv when they showed Sun looking at the cradle, “Please, find that ring!!”
    It’s going to be a long 8 months! Love the PodCast!

  2. John Fischer says:

    “What about you?” He wasn’t even remotely trying to keep Ben from killing him. In fact, it seemed as if he was doing exactly the opposite. It appeared as if he were deliberately taunting Ben. So why would he do that?

    —–

    I think Jacob knew that Ben was going to kill him. It was Ben’s destiny for a very long time. More, however, I think for Ben ultimately to be redeemed, he had to fall to the bottom, to do evil’s bidding. Once he understands what he has done, he can begin to redeem himself. I still have hope that Ben will be the one who saves them all.

    How ironic that the two actors in LOST who are widely considered the best actors as well as two of the most popular characters, have both been mere pawns for much of their lives? Both Locke and Ben have dedicated so much of their lives to doing the bidding of someone else, someone apparently evil.

  3. Mindstage says:

    Okay, I have two questions that just occurred to me.

    When Alana visited Jacob’s cabin in 2007, she said “someone has been using it.”

    Did she mean Jacob’s adversary had been there until recently? Is the ash mote some sort of containment device to keep him in the perimeter?

    And finally, did not Rose and Bernard’s cabin in 1977 look a LOT like Jacob’s cabin, only in much better condition?

  4. David Minter says:

    I belive the statue is of Anubis – god of the after life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis

    If that is true – is the island some sort of purgatory?

  5. iwantdesmondshair says:

    Sigh,

    This was good and all but the show is just soooo far gone from the first 3 seasons. Seriously Walt doesn’t play any bigger part in the arc of the story? Aaron, um wasn’t he ultra important? The numbers………..not in the story at all?

    The more crazy stuff they throw in the less interesting it becomes. I think all the connections are being presented horribly and the mystery if fading away.

    Anyone else think Locke in that metal box was the most captain obvious thing ever?

    Sorry if I sound like a complainer I’m just so sad at what is happening to my favorite show =(

  6. 1. My wife and I have been thinking that Locke was really dead since Ben said “Dead is Dead”. That was the name of that episode too and so we took it pretty seriously. (We also thought that foreshadowing was pretty heavy when John came out of the woods just after Ben said he couldn’t control what was about to come out of the woods.)
    2. Locke is being inhabited by the guy we saw at the beginning of the episode dressed in black and talking to Jacob. We’ve been hearing since season 2 that there is “a war coming”. Everybody thought it was between Ben and Widmore, but I saw on this blog a while ago a theory (which I’ve thought was right on) that the real war was between Jacob and Christian – Jacks’s dad, or some other entity that was trying to take over the island. I think we saw that person (thing) last night. Based on all of the hieroglyphics on the island, I’m guessing it’s Anubis (the Egyptian god of the underworld). I’m thinking Jacob is RA. …Or at least the two entities that the Egyptians thought of as those two gods.
    3. That brings us to Charlie’s question from season two: “Where are we?” I think that the island is a little bit of the lost island of Atlantis. When Plato (or was it Homer?) saw it “sink” really it was the island moving like we saw last season. I don’t know what happened to the rest of Atlantis, but I think this is only a portion of it. From what I’ve heard, the legend of Atlantis is that it had an Egyptian culture. That would fit.
    4. My wife noticed something I found brilliant last night. When the Logo came on the screen last night at the end, it was white on white and then black on white as opposed to the white on black we’ve seen every season up to now.
    5. I think the last season is going to start with a confrontation with John Locke and then an explanation of what the island is (answering Charlie’s question), and the rest of the season is going to be about the followers of Jacob doing battle with this new entity we just discovered. (… this just occurred to me… what if RA and Anubis were banished to this island and are essentially – although they can leave occasionally – and the “loophole they were talking about are the rules/magic that keeps them there).
    6. Also there are a lot of similarities between this and the book The Stand. The writers keep saying it is a major influence on the series.

  7. John Fischer says:

    If we can assume that the evil force portrayed by the man in black at the beginning, Locke at the end and presumably also Christian in the cabin and at the bottom of the well, and Alex in the Temple, then it seems that this entity can inhabit one body at a time albeit in different guises. Then the question becomes what was Claire’s status when we saw her in the cabin with Christian. If she was indeed alive, where has she been for the past 3 years. If she is dead, who or what is manifesting itself in her body. Could Jacob have been appearing as Claire and both Jacob and the evil one been there giving Locke instructions in the cabin? If Jacob is not really dead, will his new manifestation for season 6 be in the form of Claire? Is that how Claire will be for season 6. The real Claire died in the explosion?

  8. Wilson in the Ham says:

    History erasing button . . .

    What a load of dung.

    Poof!

  9. Rusty in FL says:

    I agree that Jacob and Darkness (for lack of a better name) are locked in an eternal struggle between good and evil. Darkness says the cycle always ends the same, then Jacob replies that will only end once: everything that happened before is simply progress.

    I guess Darkness can take the form of any dead body located on the island: Christian, Boone, Eko’s brother, Claire, Charlie, Libby, Ben’s daughter, and now Locke.

    Everything that Locke did on the island (before dying) has given Dark Locke credibility with Ben and Alpert, so much so that they accept his supposed return from the dead. And accept him as leader.

    The close up shot of the eye opening after the explosion – I’m almost positive that it’s Elizabeth Mitchell’s green eyes. Juliet is still alive!

    Great, great episode.

  10. Andrew says:

    I agree with @Kaysea that there was some ambiguity about who was good or evil (black and white shirts notwithstanding).

    Does getting Kate out of childhood shoplifting help her or set her on her path of crime? Maybe the confrontation with the police/parents would have straightened her out.

    Does giving Sawyer the pen comfort him or make vengeance the focus of his life where he becomes the thing he hates?

    Does reviving Locke really do him a favor? With what we know by the end of the episode it just postpones his life to serve as a dupe until he is killed by Ben.

    I also think that a lot of the decisions about blowing up the bomb were changed way too frequently without enough convincing motivation. It was a hydrogen bomb!

    Also the ending was a little too open. Anything could happen now which isn’t that suspenseful. The bomb could just be an out for anything to be presented next season. The S4 finale changed things and led to much happy speculation about what would happen next. But it also confirmed that S5 would have to deal with the what happened in the finale. The S5 finale doesn’t really have that big a bang despite the h-bomb.

  11. Becky from MI says:

    Funky Dunky – My screen went black also, like somebody turned a lightswitch off then on again. It was right when they did a close-up of Jacob’s face. I thought this was intentional. Did this happen to anybody else?

  12. Big Jim says:

    Not sure the relevance of this, but the fish that Jacob caught at the start of the episode…. was a Red Herring.

  13. Rich in Cleveland says:

    “All hell is going to break loose.” Words are never inconsequential on Lost. I haven’t kept a running tally, but we must have heard at least 40 references to hell over the years. The most overt suggestion about finding hell came from Anthony Cooper as he met Sawyer in the brig of the Black Rock. Pierre Chang’s comment above takes me back to the Pandora’s Box allusions of seasons gone by. Have our Lostaways inadvertently “opened the box” and unleashed unspeakable evils upon the world?

    I found it very telling that Jacob did NOT make an appearance in Juliet’s flashback. She wasn’t woven into the master tapestry of Fate and called to the island by the omnipresent Jacob. Does that make her actions unforseen or is she, like Ben, just an afterthought to the inscrutable, demanding father? Without Juliet, Jughead doesn’t create the white flash.

    The opening scene of this episode was off the map, so to speak, and takes us finally toward the heart of the island mythology. We see the supreme manifestation of the nesting dolls of a power struggle taking plave over the island. Is it Jack vs. Locke? Think bigger. Ben vs. Widmore. Go behind the curtain. It’s nothing less than the ultimate conflict of Dark vs. Light.

    Esau believes human nature has proven him right, that even Jacob’s chosen “candidates” devolve into selfishness, corruption, and chaos. Therefore, the island and, by extension, the world should remain static, unpopulated, draped in darkness. Jacob still sees progress and hope that humans will eventually overcome their weaknesses and change one of the core variables that will permit redemption.

    “Things will change once he’s gone, I promise.” Because there will be no tension, no balance, only darkness. We have a choice, we can change things, but this is not the kind of change that we had hoped to have delivered.

  14. Raul From Wayne,NJ says:

    It was a great episode answering some questions and creating new ones. I do have a theory that the bodies need to be burned in order to prevent the “entities” from possessing them, so now Jacob can possess the Locke corpse that was in the box. So Terry Quinn might have double acting duty next season! And we will spend all next season trying to figure out if it was Jacob Locke or Anti- Jacob Locke doing things through the next season.

    My only complaint is that how can Jacob who lives forever, bestows eternal life, heals people and travels through time and space, so easily stabbed by Ben?? Does 2 entities in the same room negate each other and thus become vulnerable?? So if the 2 entities cant destroy each other due to some cosmic rule, then the loophole is having a third person in the room?

    I am assumming that Jacob greatest power is that he has foresight and plans things way ahead. So the guitar case and the New Others may be his Ace in the sleeve.

  15. Irene says:

    Jen, oh Jen, when Jack said ‘I had her and I lost her…’ I heard Jen’s groan all the way over here in California. That his decision came down to Kate, I knew would not sit well with Jen. Was not a good moment for the Anti-Kate losties out there. I have to say, when Juliet was telling Sawyer how much she loved him and he was telling her not to let go, completely gut wrenching. I’m sorry Jen I know you’re not a ‘shipper’. But that’s why LOST is so amazing. You get the sci-fi, the mythology, character development, the daddy issues, yes even a little shipper action. It has something for everyone to sink their teeth into. I LOVE this show. What will I do when it’s gone? Watch all 6 seasons on DVD of course! The line Miles gave about maybe Jack throwing the bomb in the hole was the incident all along was great. I don’t think it was a throw away line. I think for some of us that don’t get a chance to really delve in to LOST’s every detail, it was something we’d all been thinking and Miles put it out there for us. Lock, Claire, Alex, Christian, Charlie dead is dead. Mixed feelings about season 6, can’t wait for it but sad that I will need to find another way to fill my Wednesday nights….maybe FlashBack? Who knows.

  16. cat says:

    John Fisher, you raise a really interesting point about Claire. If we assume that the evil guy can inhabit dead bodies (and this must have something to do with the fact that the bodies have to be buried on the island although locke wasn’t burried yet but also not decomposed) and that he in fact has inhabited Christian, can he inhabit two bodies at once (Claire and Christian?) That seems to be pushing it. So I’m now thinking that maybe Claire didn’t die but that she is being manipulated by evil Christian because she and the whole Shepard clan seem to be so critical to what is going to happen in season 6. She is part of evil guy’s plot to take over the island and kill Jacob. Because he takes her, aaron goes with Kate, and Kate goes back to the island.

    It’s going to be a long head-spinning 8 months.

  17. Metasteve says:

    I think the most powerful emotion is thinking about erasing everything and never knowing something happened. Kind of like dying. Right when Jack was dropping the bomb, the cut to all of their faces… I almost lost it.

    Read about Jacob (and his brother Esau) on Wikipedia. Interesting relationship.

    Nice cavalry in the microbus. If I was not laying down, I would have been up on my feet!!

  18. Mike - St. Louis says:

    Many Bloggers have stated that they all think and Rose and Bernard are the “Adam and Eve” from the cave in season 1. But, that can’t be because when Jack discovered them, he speculated that the amount of decomposition of the bodies would place them at least 50 or so years prior to 2004, when he discovered them?

  19. dip says:

    Can’t believe people were disappointed with this episode. What were you expecting? This was the *season* finale, not the *series* finale… still have a season to go, people.

  20. I was a little disappointed seeing Rose and Bernard by themselves in the bushes. Does that mean the end of our beloved background characters? Did the last of them die in the rain of flaming arrows, or did some survive, only to die of headaches and nosebleeds?

    Or, hey: maybe the “reset button” will mean that they all arrive safely in LA and go back to carrying logs and tightening tarps in their mainland lives. We can only hope.

  21. christy in TX says:

    Randoms:

    – Jacob is not necessarily ‘good’ –

    – If DeadLocke now takes the form of Jacob to deceive Richard and Ben tells Richard it is no longer Jacob, Richard will assume Ben is lying, as that is all he ever does anymore.

    – If “They are coming” refers to the 1977 Losties, maybe the contents of the guitar case are intended to aid in the ‘war’

    – Does this mean Widmore, who wanted Locke to return to the island, is on the side AGAINST Jacob? And if so, does this mean Miss Hawking was, too? Was she in cahoots with Widmore to get Desmond to the island?

    -Bram and Iliana appear to be on the side of Jacob & RA, and knew Locke’s dead body would be significant, and Bram tried to prevent Miles from going on the freighter, so they must also be on the opposite side as Widmore, too.

    – At the beginning Jacob is asked if he brought the ship to the island, and he confirms it (I believe) so if he does this by going and ‘touching’ people, like he did of the Losties, is it because he knows they are reincarnations of the souls of the same people that have been waging this war on the island?

    – This episode was so epic that the full profile view of the statue is not even the 5th or 6th main topic! I love it!

    -Does Paul’s ankh and the return of his corpse to the others mean he was an Other at one time?

  22. Irene from California says:

    If they pull a Dallas on us for next season…

  23. Mike - St. Louis says:

    Ok, so if Esau, or Anti-Jacob was really in the cabin. Then that would assume the cabin is much older than the one we already assumed was the cabin that Horace was building when seen by Locke in Season 3? I think it might possibly be the reverse. That Jacob was in the cabin and trapped by the circle of ash by Esau (A.J.) or the others under the control of Anti-Jacob. then Jacob somehow escaped. That’s why Ilana was so worried to see that the circle had been broken.

  24. Eva from Estonia says:

    I think we all expected the ending – the bomb will go off and we won’t see what happens so that didn’t disappoint me.

    But if we are to believe that Jacob and Anti-Jacob are personified Good and Evil, Satan and God, if you will, then the whole killing part seems way trivial and… human.

    All right, they’re having a war and using losties as pawns, but isn’t the war of good and evil a war that neither side will win? (And us humans simply have to choose a side:P) Like Backgammon or chess pieces – you can’t delete either side or the game will stop existing. Honestly, I don’t think Good should be able to overcome Evil or vice versa, they are just two sides of the same coin.

    So really, the killing part… was unnecessary.

    Unless…

    Anti-Jacob merely plotted to kill Jacob’s human form – his essence however, cannot be killed. Jacob and AJ took human form for a reason, even if it was just to play their little chess game. They cannot attack each other but are vulnerable to attacks from other humans. Jacob likes to believe in the goodness of man while AJ believes the opposite. Their fight can’t have an ultimate winner, but in a framework (= Earth / The Island) one side can win. Game over. Game restart.

    In this game, humans still have their freedom of choice and thought. They can only be manipulated by AJ and Jacob but they are the ones who make the final choices.

    So I agree with former posters, there are two stories going – an earthly story with humans and a spiritual story with Good and Evil.

    (Then again, let’s assume that’s all bulls**t, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse are just building a cult for themselves and in the end of the 6th season devoted Lost fans will be invited to The Island to wait for The Spaceship and all.)

  25. christy in TX says:

    Randoms:

    – Jacob is not necessarily ‘good’ –

    – If DeadLocke now takes the form of Jacob to deceive Richard and Ben tells Richard it is no longer Jacob, Richard will assume Ben is lying, as that is all he ever does anymore.

    – If “They are coming” refers to the 1977 Losties, maybe the contents of the guitar case are intended to aid in the ‘war’

    – Does this mean Widmore, who wanted Locke to return to the island, is on the side AGAINST Jacob? And if so, does this mean Miss Hawking was, too? Was she in cahoots with Widmore to get Desmond to the island?

    -Bram and Iliana appear to be on the side of Jacob & RA, and knew Locke’s dead body would be significant, and Bram tried to prevent Miles from going on the freighter, so they must also be on the opposite side as Widmore, too.

    – At the beginning Jacob is asked if he brought the ship to the island, and he confirms it (I believe) so if he does this by going and ‘touching’ people, like he did of the Losties, is it because he knows they are reincarnations of the souls of the same people that have been waging this war on the island?

    – This episode was so epic that the full profile view of the statue is not even the 5th or 6th main topic! I love it!

    -Does Paul’s ankh and the return of his corpse to the others mean he was an Other at one time?

    – For how long has Jacob’s opponent been habitating Locke’s body? Since Locke encountered the monster in season 1? Is that why he appeared to vacillate between self-assuredness about himself and the island and being a fragile, unsure man? Or maybe during time traveling at some point the looping causing two Locke’s gave him the opportunity to possess one of the bodies of Locke? Then DeadLocke only needed await the return of Ben with John’s body for all to believe he was the returned-to-life leader of the Others?

  26. Mike - St. Louis says:

    The Black Rock off the coast of the island makes no sense. How did it get half-way into the jungle where we previously knew if it were casually floating off the coast? Power of the island. My assumption was originally that it got to the island the same way Ajira 316 and Oceanic 815 got there. through some kind of window as described by Ms. Hawking…i know that in that opening scene it makes sense but it doesn’t from a continuity stand-point!

  27. Raul From Wayne,NJ says:

    What Richard says is ILLE QUI NOS OMNES SERVABIT which translates to
    HE WHO WILL PROTECT US ALL

    http://www.latinlanguage.us/blog/index.php?blog=2&title=ligille_qui_nos_omnes_servabitl_ig&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

  28. Eric Arvin says:

    Great comments here! I’ve just spent the last hour reading them while I should be working.

    I noticed a couple things concerning Juliet. First, Jacob didn’t appear in her flashback. I wonder why.

    And when she was pulled down the hole by the chains it reminded me of the Smoke Monster when it pulls people under. Just a thought.

  29. Rich in Cleveland says:

    @ Casey & John Fischer
    Perhaps the “what about you?” line wasn’t contemptuous and dismissive, but more of a gentle challenge to Ben to demonstrate his mettle and prove his worthiness. Obviously, he misunderstood, let his emotions get the better of him, and failed miserably.

    @ CuedblU Ben and Richard at least cannot be conscious of being caught in an infinite time loop as many have speculated or they would not have been so easily duped by impostor Locke. May Jacob be aware even about the sacrifice of himself since he spins the fabric of Fate?

    Is the embodiment of Christian Sheperd in particular and the other manifestations of the dead just a vehicle for the Dark Player? (@ Jesse Again. He was the someone else occupying Jacob’s cabin. It had to be Jacob’s or else Ilana wouldn’t be seeking him there.) I can see the manifestation of Dave in a whole new light now. That was the devil tempting Hurley to jump in an effort to destroy one that Jacob loved and had high hopes for.

    Loved the symbolism of Juliet wrapped in chains like Jacob Marley’s ghost (and Regina before her.)

    @MLE The rainbow was probably a fortunate accident, but that was a great reference to the flood, a triumph for chaos and darkness in the destruction of the world. Thanks for the song & the mention last podcast!

  30. Moriah says:

    @christy in TX –

    I had the thought about Anti-Jacob posing as real Jacob as well but I wonder if burning the body would prohibit him from taking Jacob’s shape. We know Anti-Jacbo doesn’t really inhabit the body since he was walking around as Locke while Locke’s real body was in the box. But it’ll still be interesting to see what (if any) rules there are about how Anti-Jacob can pose as someone.

    Also, I agree Jacob may not be good but from the little bit we’ve seen tonight, I kinda want him to be good.

    As for Eloise and Widmore possibly being on Anti-Locke’s side since they helped bring Locke’s body to the island, I’m not sure. They also seemed interested in getting everyone else who had left the island back there too. It’s looking to me like Jacob also wanted Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid and Sun to come back … perhaps even Locke as well? I think it’s all still a toss up as to who is on who’s side. It does seem likely, though, based on what Widmore said to Locke about a war coming, that he knows there are sides to take but I’m not sure he can clearly see which side is which. Didn’t Ben also make mention of a war coming? It seems likely that many characters (really all other than perhaps Ilana and Co plus Richard, with Frank as a “candidate” to be in the know with them) only know vague ideas about Jacob and Anti-Jacob but aren’t informed enough to know which side to take yet.

  31. Moriah says:

    @Rich in Cleveland –

    Great point about Dave trying to get Hurley to jump! Only thing is that as far as we can tell, Anti-Locke has only taken the form of bodies that are on the island, right? Maybe Dave’s body *is* on the island but I seem to recall Darlton saying that we wouldn’t revisit Dave so we’ll never know for sure. Or I could just be making that up in my head that Darlton said that …

  32. Rich in Cleveland says:

    @ Christy
    Didn’t you feel AJ was evil right out of the gate when he spoke with such malice about how badly he wanted to kill Jacob? He didn’t even offer up the pretense that he was the “good guy.”

  33. MRPEMSTAR says:

    THANK JACOB ROSE AND BERNARD WERE STILL ALIVE!!!

    THAT was the peak of my experience of last night’s episode of LOST, seeing them alive!!

    And what is funny, they personified the mood and lifestyle of the DHARMA Initiative, didn’t you think? (living in peace and harmony).

    Personifying peace over war and the essance of “being together” and enjoying each other’s company, WOW!!

    “if we die, we die…..atleast we have each other in the end” amazing twist on that episode.

    What a concept. Excellent, excellent writing for that schene!!!

    ~ THE Pemstar Initiative ~

  34. Cameron says:

    I have to hope that Adam & Eve in the cave are Sawyer and Juliet! How you ask since Juliet is dead and on her way to another tv show destination? I’m hoping that in the series finale Sawyer finds a way to go back in time to 1977 – grab his lady love – then somehow teleport even farther back in time where he and Juliet can do a Rose & Bernard and just hang out until they die.

  35. Gregoire from NYC says:

    I love reading all these wonderful speculations!

    It appears to me that Daniel might have been right about the concept of a Variable having an effect on the island’s timeline. Except that the Variable was Juliet.

    There was a very good reason why we were shown Juliet’s flashback, and it wasn’t to justify her silly reason for ‘breaking up’ with Sawyer. All the other flashbacks had Jacob in them, indicating that he could predict which people he would need to influence for an as-of-yet undisclosed purpose.

    One of those people was NOT Juliet. Yet we were given a peak into her backstory in the same manner as the others.

    Additionally, Juliet is not part of the original Losties who now seem to be handpicked by Jacob. Having her involved with the events surrounding the island — and specifically the Incident — might not have been foreseen by Jacob.

    Her role in the story is not driven by ‘destiny’ but by her own free-will, a notably wishy-washy brand of freewill as we see her change her mind once they get off the sub and face Jack. Ironically, it now seems that she in fact does have a destiny, more so than any other person on the island — she single-handedly causes, or prevents, the Incident.

  36. bill says:

    people keep mentioning that the juliette set off the bomb–whay makes you think the bomb went off? It is this device that dharma builds the chernobyl concrete wall around. The white at the end i beleive was the flash moving the forward in time. jacob says—“they are coming” which i think is the losties coming back to the present. When jacob dies it pulls the 77 losties back to the future–that event occured as juliette was banging the bomb. Plus if the bomb did go off then you would have two options–1. No change in time–so all are dead from explosion. 2. The change the future–the plane doesnt crash and they all get off in LA which = no show.

  37. SOKO says:

    That Rose and Bernard scene felt a lot like “we never intended to develop any story around the other survivors that time jumped, but you people keep asking about Rose and Bernard, well fine. Here you go. This is what you get. Now shut up and go away… and vincent is with them too so lay off about that and no the other people that were running from the arrows aren’t there… What? yes, that old man and woman are that stealthy and their survivor skills are at such a level as to pull a Rousseau and avoid everyone while stealing food… now really this is all you get no more plot hole filling for us today… and again they aren’t going to talk about time travel because it’s a normal occurrence.”

  38. Tys says:

    I totally disagree with Ryan’s write up and Jen’s disappointment in the episode. I loved the show! Almost all the moments Ryan thought didn’t work, I thought were great. This was an excellent episode and I’m confused as ever!

  39. Jenn in Portland, OR says:

    I’ve only been able to read through about half of the posts on here – so sorry if I repeat someone…

    First of all, the phrase on the wall above Jacob in the beginning seems to to say something about the Gods only having so many gifts to give… And if you think about it, in addition to touching each of the Losties, Jacob also gave each of them a gift. Kate – money/lunchbox, Jack – Apollo bar, Hurley – guitar case, Locke & Sayid – life, and Sun and Jin – well, the only thing I can think of is advice or good luck wishes, which is admittedly a bit weak. And yes, Locke gets life and Jack gets an Apollo bar? I dunno…. Maybe Sayid and Locke got life because they were the only two who would have died pre-island. In any case, kind of interesting.

    I’d rather call second Locke, Dark Locke rather than anit-Jacob.

    Are Juliet and Sayid really dead if the bomb went off before they took their final breath? I say not… Locke, however, was dead as dead.

    I also don’t see how Ilana was not surprised when she saw Locke alive, but also knew he was dead and in a box. Do we know when they found Locke’s body? Was it after Locke had already taken off with Ben? maybe.

    I think Dark Locke = smoke moster = Jacob’s “friend” in the black shirt

    Jack wants to erase the last 3 years just because he lost Kate? Sorry, that’s retarded. I don’t even think he really lost her – that he could get her back if he just tried…. and really, we didn’t see enough of them “together” to really think they even cared for each other that deeply. And Juliet changes her mind because of one look…again, kinda weak.

    I feel it was all too rushed – they REALLY should have kept to the normal 22-23 episodes per season for the remaining 3 years instead of shortening to 16. That was just a very stupid thing to do and just does a great injustice to all the characters.

    Maybe more later once I get a chance to read through the rest of the comments here…

  40. I thought this was a fair finale. I loved how Jacob offered the “darkness” some fish to eat (sort of biblical huh?). It seemed anticlimactic the way that Ben ended up stabbing Jacob and then dying. But I guess we’ll just have to wait till 2010 to find out what’s the deal with all this. There are some huge loose ends to tie up here!

    Oh, the store that Kate stole from was “The Market” or “Pa’ala Kai Market” I used to live right down the road as a kid and go there everyday. It was good to see the store make it into LOST. Aloha!

  41. Ben says:

    Wow, you’re blog post was a total downer. I enjoyed this episode more than any I had ever seen. Every single scene left me more excited. I do hope Jen gets over it because the story just got awesome on a whole new level.

  42. buffalonygal says:

    are we sure Ben is “good?” I mean why did he bring Locke’s body back? If bad Locke needed it…seems like he knew he was working for the bad guys, right? What did he say were the reasons for bringing the body? To simulate the original flight? Who told him to do that? Eloise? So is she worknig with bad Locke??

    my brain hurts…I love it!

  43. James from Los Angeles says:

    Ryan,

    Your blog writing is elegant. How you manage to prepare your fine essays and the podcast are both a testament to your passion for Lost and your incredible writing talent.

    I really appreciate your insights, and your ability to find both the good and bad in this television show.

    Now that Lost is over, I will pine for the podcast which always helped me get to sleep.

    I will write some comments soon, since I have many observations, but wanted to give a shout-out to the amazing job that you and Jen perform.

    There are so many of us that wake up early in the morning, eager to read what your mind put down.

    Thank you for that.
    James

  44. Irene from California says:

    I agree with Ben.

  45. TNLostGirl says:

    hey again Ryan and Jen!
    I, too, was a little bummed to read your blog. I hate that you were disappointed with this episode.
    I see some of your frustrations, but I think overall this episode was excellent! I agree with someone’s post earlier that it was really almost to point out that they are just human.
    One thing I’ve been thinking is that with the screen turning into white at the end of the episode, it reminded me of the ‘flashes’ earlier this season. Almost like there was a reason they showed us the screen turning white in the flashes. Perhaps the bomb didn’t really go off, but that they are just in another flash which will bring them to the ‘war’ in 2007 (or whenever it will take place).
    I don’t think Jacob is dead… that was just too easy.
    I don’t think Syid is dead… there was a reason Jacob brought him to the island.
    I still stick to my guns that Ben will turn out to be a good guy and perhaps even their savior.
    I don’t think Juliet is dead… don’t know why they made it a point NOT to show Jacob in her flashback, but I do believe there is a reason she was on the island. I don’t see her as just a causality in all this.

    I am confused as to how the DI fits into the battle between good and evil. Any ideas? and how does Whidmore fit in?

    I am still ‘blown away’ (haha) from this episode!!

  46. HeyKir in NYC says:

    OK, I’ve been thinking… what if the entity in the cabin has ALWAYS been AntiJacob? Then he would be the one giving all the info to Ben and asking him to follow the dark side of things. Richard said that the statue is where Jacob has lived for a long time (sorry, i forget the quote) and not in the cabin.

    So, all things associated with the cabin could be the AntiJacob’s doing: Horace building it, Christian and Claire in it, and Locke and Ben following orders from who they BELIEVED to be the real Jacob.

    Hmmm…

  47. Rich in Cleveland says:

    Ryan & Jen–

    I think you’re being a little too hard on at least one bisection of the paraloveogram. Sawyer & Juliet were dead on to me. The “look” was not just a forced device. It was set up beautifully by Rose and Bernard’s tale., a model for true love on an island paradise. Almost instinctively, when Sawyer imagined sharing such a life with the one he loved, he looked to Kate. Also, Sawyer’s expression to Jack that we all derive some benefit from even our most noble actions rang true and seemed to be borne out by what followed. Finally, Juliet’s release was heart-wrenching and definitely got to me. Josh Holloway’s best work.

    As for Jack and Kate, I still can’t figure out what they’re doing. I never believed Kate’s whole rationale for returning in the first and Jack is naturally heartbroken, but only a pretty sick person would detonate a H-bomb just to rid himself of that pain when, as Sawyer again correctly points out, Jack could just walk the few feet over to Kate and summon the courage to try and love again (the first cut is the deepest…..) Isnt this what revitalized, Zen Jack should do? My only disappointment with the episode.

  48. Carol says:

    Miles could be very important next year since he can sense who is really dead. I would love to have him “speak” to dead Locke. I hope Miles can travel time as well.

    I love the irony of Locke, who managed a box company, ends up in a box.

  49. James from Los Angeles says:

    Lost is back. Let me explain why.

    I was the one who posted some very cynical remarks on here a few episodes back. And watching the clip show that preceded the finale last night only confirmed how confusing Season Five was.

    But it wasn’t because of time travel, curiously.

    It was the shifting and often weak motivations, lack of character focus, but most of all, the bizarre way that Lost incorporated “dead people.”

    A show that was so devoted to science fiction seemed to have too many dead people coming and going, and for me, the stakes were not the same. There was too much of a feeling that “anything goes.”

    What was soothing in the finale last night was the way the explained those visages of dead people, all the way back to Christian in Season One! Okay, maybe it is a bit supernatural to possess a dead body, like Christian or Locke, but that works for me, because “dead is dead.”

    This new meta-story about Jacob and Anti-Jacob is thrilling to me. Moral choices, free will, and perpetual time loops that don’t change unless you…

    Transcend the system. Desmond pushing the button for love; Jack throwing the bomb down the hole; extreme choices, human choices. I don’t know where it will go, but taking the deep back story to something higher than Widmore and Ben seems like the right move now.

    Lost was always a story that got bigger with each season, but that stopped in the last two seasons when the Ben Vs. Widmore became the chess game, and this seemed trivial to me.

    I am happy that the producers have grounded are story in a larger context now, with more profound implications.

    Having given my compliments, the episode was not without its curiosities.

    The Rose and Bernard sequence was jarring, bizarre, and made worse by a sentimental soundtrack. Out of nowhere comes this strange appeal to lose our mission and suspense, almost as if Lost was breaking the narrative fourth wall, and making us appeal to our higher hippie. In its own episode, it could have been cool, but in the context of this finale, it was just wrong, and clearly there to tie up a loose end. Watch it again, and listen to that sentimental music.

    Miles’ logical comment was terrific, but why had no one thought of this? What happened, happened! It has to be this way. Detonating that bomb seemed ill-motivated.

    Regarding the love triangles. Yes, I finally agree Jen and Ryan. You know, Ayn Rand made the same mistake with Atlas Shrugged. Too many love interests, so we can’t as an audience root for any one direction. Love triangles work for a while, but then they become murky and distracting. Desmond and Penny work so well because it is an actual love, and we want the lovers to re-unite against all odds.

    I am optimistic about next season. I thing they have a clean slate to work with. They can re-tell season one, if they wanted. I think they are going to go to something much simpler, and will no longer try to synergize so many complicated scenarios and characters.

    Watch… Season 6 will be like Season One. It will be fantastic! Have faith!

    James

  50. jamEs says:

    There is no way things flash forward and they all land in LA safe and sound. That result would be the worst from a storytelling perspective, mainly because it would undo 5 seasons worth of character development.

    I found a couple flaws in this episode with regards to Jack. All the sudden he’s a sniper. Sure he’s a surgeon and has good hand eye co-ordination, but he had to have busted caps into about 5 or 6 guys last night, all of which were trying to shoot at him too. Second is the fight with Sawyer. I perceive Sawyer being a sass talker and general low-life swindler he’d probably know how to give and take a punch. I’m sure Jack has fought somewhere along the line in the show, but I never figured he would really hold his own against Sawyer.

    I’ve found over the last couple episodes they have really diminished the importance of Richard. A couple of weeks ago I thought he was a key cog in the whole story. Now he’s just some guy who really doesn’t know anything aside from stuff he learned from the time travelers.

    I was just discussing how you could tell the contract between Locke and DarkLocke. Locke left the island, very unsure of things, bumbled through the whole process to get everyone to come back and died as prophecized. DarkLocke comes into being when they return to the island, in the same way Christian exists. He is very sure of himself, has a laundry list of things to do and places to be. In retrospect you can see how the situation was manipulated, in a fashion even beyond Ben’s abilities. DarkLocke took Richard to meet Locke in the jungle and fed him the information about Locke having to die, hence setting in motion this self fulfilling prophecy about being the leader. Locke would have had no way of knowing where and when he was when Richard just popped out of the jungle to save his life. DarkLocke took Ben to the temple where he was faced with threats from his darkest fear to ensure his obedience. He then goaded Ben into action, in the same way Ben goaded Sayid into attempting to kill him as a child. That’s some clever storytelling there.

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