Next: “Follow the Leader” (Episode 5×15)

Each season, the penultimate episode is usually given the sad assignment of being the doormat for the season finale. And, like those that have come before, “Follow The Leader” had its share of trekking and shuffling and exposition, as the various chess pieces are moved into place for the final showdown. But as these “setup episodes” go, we really liked this one. Great character moments, solid conflicts, noticeably vibrant cinematography (about which we only periodically rave), and brisk pacing. We’re satisfied, and properly pumped up for next week.

True, we had not one, but two “recycled” moments last night. The first? They replayed the “Ellie Shoots Faraday” scene from Jack and Kate’s perspective. And to be honest, I briefly feared that the writers would pull a “magical moving bullet hole” trick, a la Ben. Instead, they went out of their way to show us that Faraday is truly dead… right down to the “hand over the eyes to close them” cliche that’s everywhere in movies and TV. But the second re-run moment was unexpected: Locke brings Ben and Richard to meet Flashing Locke at the drug plane. It was awesome to watch, but prompted the night’s biggest headache as we tried to plot out where and when Richard and Locke were, and when they knew what. Frankly, I wonder if they just wrote in the scene to solve the “infinite compass” question. Either way, though, it was fun to watch.

I loved Michael Emerson’s Ben this week, exasperated and snarky. His scenes with Locke were fun, yet significant, throwing the two “leaders” into sharp relief. I also liked the brief moments of chemistry between Ben and Alpert, both familiar and awkward. The scene where Hurley is outed as a time traveler was, of course, hilarious… especially since he’s stumped when asked who the president is in 1977. He asked that very question to Sawyer in “Namaste,” but Sawyer groused, “It’s not a damned game show.” But that same scene carried unexpected warmth, as well, when Miles admits to Dr. Chang that he’s his son… and Dr. Chang accepts it.

As far as chemistry goes, I was loving the interplay between Sawyer and Juliet. From the violent interrogation to their conversation on the dock (where Juliet says she’s still glad Sawyer talked her into staying, and he hatches a plan to get rich via Microsoft), it’s great how the show’s most out-of-the-blue coupling remains one of its most strong and mature.

Until, of course, Kate drops in, and is handcuffed next to Juliet, the two of them conveniently across from Sawyer. That moment was so cheap and forced, I actually thought I heard a cartoony needle-scratching-off-a-record sound effect in the back ground. And here I thought we’d at least make it out of Season 5 without returning to Season 1 romantic melodrama.

And I was just starting to warm up to Kate again, too. She’s assertive, skeptical, perceptive… a lot of the things she’s often not allowed to be for the sake of a twist. She’s the first (followed by Sayid) to point out that the last three years of their lives is not something to be discarded lightly. I liked her look of exasperation when Jack admits to being with Faraday, and her answer to Ellie when she asks whether Jack knows what he’s talking about: “He thinks he does.” She stands up to, and parts ways with, Jack, soon after delivering one of her best lines in recent memory: “Since when did shooting kids and blowing up hydrogen bombs become okay?” Evangeline Lilly’s acting was solid, not screechy, her glassy eyes tonight taking me back to Kate’s strong Season 1 moments. Alas, she then marches off… right back into a soap opera.

I’m certain that the fake-out, when Kate briefly thinks she’d been shot, is simultaneously a low- and high-point for those who aren’t a fan of her character.

And Locke. Something’s up with Locke. If Locke’s even Locke. Richard immediately notices something’s different about him, and I don’t think it’s because he has a “purpose” now. He’s confident and resolute, but he’s something else… and when he dismisses out of hand Sun’s hopes of reunification with Jin, I got a cold chill. And he wants to kill the allmighty Jacob, if he’s allmighty at all. Is doing so in service of a grand plan that Locke is executing? Perhaps. Or is it simply the folly of a man who thinks he’s ascended to a level higher than he has? There’s a dark side to the new-and-improved Locke. And while I said earlier that I didn’t think I could take one more rise-and-fall cycle for his long-tortured character, I feel as if another reckoning is coming for him.

Jen observed: Kate is turning into Jack, skeptical and assertive. Jack is turning into Locke, a blind believer. And Locke is turning into Ben, all-knowing but perhaps overconfident. My contribution? Sun is turning into Michael. Her one-dimensional “have you seen my husband” path of the last several episodes are becoming this season’s “Wa-a-a-a-a-alt!”

Finally, does Jack detonate Jughead? I’m still of the opinion that he doesn’t, or that whatever happens, it isn’t what you’d typically expect of a blast from a 40,000-pound hydrogen bomb. Indeed, tonight we learn that Jughead is actually parked right underneath Othersville. You know, the cozy cottages and grassy fields that still exist, intact, in 2007?

Notes and Notions:

  • “LOST” has good hair days, and bad hair days. It also has good special effects days, and bad special effects days. I have to say, the dramatic departure of the Galaga falls into the latter category. It was pretty weak, which I guess has to be expected given a weekly show and budget. It would’ve been better for us just to assume its departure based on the activity inside… but I guess they had to show the submarine under way else we draw the conclusion that it doesn’t move at all.
  • The casting for Younger Eloise is great. (As was the casting for Young Eloise in “Jughead.”) Alice Evans is absolutely believable as the precursor to stoic Mrs. Hawking. Her character’s struggle to process what Faraday said was great. And her motivations for helping Jack seem deliciously unclear. Does she really want to undo the death of a son she never knew? Or is the prospect of just blasting the Dharma Initiative to smithereens just too tempting?
  • In 2007, Alpert makes brief mention of another group of Others/Hostiiles at The Temple. Meanwhile, we know on Alcatraz (a.k.a. Hydra Island), Ilana and friends are up to something as well. I think both of these largely unexplored parties will play a key part in the season finale.
  • Sayid is back. He seemed to take the fact that Ben survived surprisingly well. I mean, he of anyone, now, should have a strong opinion as to whether what they’re doing (and what they’re about to do) is really changing anything at all.
  • So, Jack is seizing his moment. But Jen wonders, as do I, when his epiphany took place. He seemed to more roll into his current mission than blast off from a specific spark of inspiration or realization. I was expecting considerably more fireworks to celebrate the instant he decided to act.
  • Radzinkski is a vile man. And apparently can stage a coup just by telling Horace he’s in charge. At least we seem to know how his story ends, as a stain on the roof of his precious Swan. Given what Phil did to Juliet, I don’t suspect he’s long for this world, either.

What did you think? Please comment below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or leave a message on the LostLine at (808) 356-0127.

193 Responses to “Next: “Follow the Leader” (Episode 5×15)”

  1. Lorne says:

    I’ll throw out the Locke is Jacob thing, kind of like how he knew when he’d be at the plane to have Alpert help him. It will also explain his reaction on not being mad at Ben killing him. He would have to kill him too.

  2. Hugh Jackson says:

    Carol Says:
    “Sayid back just in time. What an entrance!”
    Yeah I love Sayid too, but that was the worst timing possible. when i heard that shot I screamed out in joy and then slammed my head on the coffee table and sceamed what the fuck are you doing Sayid when I realized it wasn’t kate that got shot.
    As for jacks new quest… I am still under the belief that what ever happened happened, And I have a crackpot theory to back it up: Desmond not pushing the button caused a time loop ALL AT ONCE. everything we have seen so far would not have happened if it were not for him. Just say he didn’t miss the button and Jack had not got on 815 and instead took a boat that happened to end up on the island. When he arrived everything would have been different. Ben would have grown up normaly and not be the leader of the others/hostiles there would be no incident and the Dharma and Hostiles would still be living in peace.
    Crackpot theory 2: if jack succeeds in detonating the bomb over the hatch it will be the wrong hatch. It will be over the place that the tail section gang was living and destroy the magnetic whatever at that place. Also the resulting blast/explosion/implosion sends the losties to a different time. back to the proper time or Black rock time?

    Crackpot theroy 3: Jacob is Jacks great grandfather. the Jacob cabin has so far only been inhabited by Jacks family (christian/claire). I originally thought it was his grandfather Ray (who I also think is Oldham) but the timeline doesnt work for that theory. Although time is relative I think it makes more sense for it to be Jacks great grandfather because in the bible Jacobs great grand son is named arron? And unfortunately I think Locke is being used by Christian to revenge some family tiff whitch is why he wants to kill Jacob now.

  3. Welshie loves LOST says:

    LOST Friends,

    As John from NC would say Holy Freaking Crap Squared!!! Great setup episode with some mind blowing reveals about John’s new mission on the Island. More on John in a minute…

    So it seems to me that their are two camps of 2007 Losties in 1977 in relation to Daniel’s plan. Jack and Sayid are working to undo their past, by changing the past. This plan saves 815 from crashing and puts everyone in LA safely. For Jack this isn’t a huge plus, but it saves so many lives lost. For Sayid he possibly finds his one true love and doesn’t end up killing loads of Widmore’s peeps. Sounds like a good deal for them. Who else benefits from this… Claire, Aaron, Michael, Walt, Vincent, Jin, Sun, Charlie, Charlotte, Goodwin, Tom Friendly, Echo, Anna Lucia, Libby, Boon, Shannon, Alex, Karl, Roseau and the list goes on.

    For the other Losties having the plane not crash and land in LA means their crappy lives continue. This would include Kate, Sawyer, Locke, Juliet, Ben, Hugo, Miles, Rose, Bernard, Hawking, Penny, Desmond and ironically Daniel. All of the above who want the time line to remain the same benefited in some way from the plane crashing while the others in Jack’s group go on living or don’t die.

    I am split on which I would pick if I had to choose. Ultimately I think Jack will not go through with it because he loves Kate too much.

    My crack pot theory is that when the sub comes back to drop off Sawyer, Kate and Juliet that somehow future Miles touches baby Miles later on and the Incident happens rupturing space and time at the Swan station. In season six we will see the Dharma’s and Others come together to create the count down timer in the Swan to negate the energy and the fail safe key that Desmond turns in the future is actually rigged to the H bomb some how as a secondary protocol to stop the end of the world.

    On the new and formerly dead is dead John Locke. I love the new John and anyone who can make the Others look at one another and be clueless about what is going on has my vote. Loved the scene where Ben and Richard are baffled! I love it that Ben is clueless about time travelling John. Not sure why John wants to kill Jacob, unless it is more of a metaphor for disproving his existence as a God like power to the others. Richard is definitely the captain of the Black Rock!

    Jen and Ryan keep up the wonderful work! I can’t wait for next week!

    I have a suggestion about the season six finale… I would love to come to Hawaii and watch it with you and other Transmission fans. Are you game? This would be so fantastic! I am in Maryland so you are welcome to come here if you want to get away from the Island once and for all! 🙂 Cheers!

    Welshie

  4. That episode right there is why I love LOST.

    After giving the “I’m going to kill Jacob” thing some thought, John could possibly mean symbolically. If he shows everyone there is no Jacob – then he kills Jacob. Maybe this is why he called Ben out on having never seen Jacob earlier in the episode.

    If that were true… then the fun should start if and when Jacob shows up.

    I love John Locke, but every time John gets to cocksure he gets taken down a few notches.

  5. HeyKir in NYC says:

    Hey there all! Happy Lost Day!
    Loved the episode and I have a million questions running through my head, waiting to be untangled, but the one that is screaming the loudest is …where are Rose and Bernard?!?!

  6. Geaux Bayou Bengals says:

    Loved the episode. I thought it was really exciting and I can’t wait for next week. The only small problem I have is that I am not convinced of Jack’s motivation for changing things. I don’t think the “we’ve suffered so much” argument holds up. I did like that he mentioned the lives that would be saved by the plane not crashing. That’s the one reason I could see Jack (the man who tries to save everyone) buying. I could certainly see Sayid going for it because of Shannon. And, the motivation for Kate of love for Jack and avoiding prison is clear. Sawyer and Juliet clearly don’t want things to change for the sake of their love. Just lose the “we’ve suffered so much” excuse for Jack and emphasize the saving everyone on the plane from death, and you’ve got it. Next week is going to be great!

  7. AnnLouise says:

    Lorne,
    Kate coming on the sub was the best “MST3K” moment of the episode. “Wow, you’re both on the sub, I’m on the sub, what’s the odds of anything so awkward happening?”(in a high, giggly falsetto).
    I don’t know where the new super-confident, Tony-Robbins reading Locke is going, but I love seeing RA and Ben left dumbfounded in his wake.

    As soon as Locke said he was going to “kill Jacob”, I thought of Star Trek’s Klingons, who (as all good geeks know0 killed their gods. Way to get that Trek tie-in reference; not as good as Fringe’s Clint Howard cameo, but still…

  8. Knives Monroe says:

    Wheres Vincent!!!!!!?

  9. brermike says:

    Great episode and a fantastic setup for the finale. That’s not to say that the episode was only setup or “filler” as others may call it. There was a great sense of urgency and the characters were spot on. Even if you think some are annoying, they were consistently annoying 😉 The trifecta of Locke, Ben and Richard has changed since Locke returned but it is just as interesting as it has always been, if not more so. I think Kate is right and Jack is wrong, regarding Jughead. I think Jack will in turn cause the very incident that is talked about in the orientation film. They implied that Eloise was pregnant when Widmore was talking to her in the background – he seemed to touch her belly and said something about “in your condition.”

    I’m starting to wonder if Locke’s plan to kill Jacob is simply by exposing him as a fake. This would in essence kill the idea that there is a higher power called Jacob pulling the strings. Though, maybe not considering someone or something said “Help me” to John back in season 3.

    Anyway, a great episode with a lot of forward momentum and character moments, especially for Locke, Ben, Richard, Hurley, Miles, Sawyer, and Juliet. Oh, and Sayid kicked some ass again! I wish Jin had a little more to do but hopefully he and Sun will be reunited next week.

    Great podcast as always!

  10. Lorne says:

    I certainly hole Sun and Jin are reunited next week because all of her lines have become “where’s Jin”. The character’s become a charicature of Sun. I’m sure they’ll fix that, there’s only so much screentime to go around.

  11. LostNTonic says:

    Tonight’s episode was fan-tastic!!!

    Quick thoughts…

    Locke killing Jacob — I think Locke’s future self came back and told him what to do. Maybe when he was away while Ben and Smokie had their meeting as stated above. I think this is how Locke has gained his whole new realm of confidence and understanding. He tells himself – this is what needs to happen and this is how you will do it, this is where you need to be when, etc…

    Jacob saying “Help Me” to Locke — I have a funny feeling that we only think Jacob said this to Locke, but we’ll find out that it’s all what you think you saw or heard, not what really happened. We get that a lot in Lost afterall. I think perhaps the Island (or a future time traveling Locke) needs help and says that. I believe there is no Jacob, and whatever is in the cabin is time traveling versions of people who tell our people what to do so they move forward with a plan. But the way Locke will “kill” Jacob, is to expose that he does not really exist. Did that make sense?

    Eloise — I cannot figure out why she wants to go to the bomb. I noticed that Charles was commenting on her “condition” before they left camp (she’s obviously already pregnant in ’77). One of the camp guys said their love is “complicated”. Maybe she’s not happy about being pregnant = could further explain the distance she always feels toward Daniel.

    Kate/Sawyer/Juliet/Jack = totally messed up! But what relationships aren’t in some way??? How would you feel is a guy you loved (even if it was deep deep down and a long while ago) said – Hey, if I can erase all of “us” – our memories, our ties, our good times and bad, I’ll not only do but I’ll do it gladly without consulting you. I’d run back to Sawyer and the sub as well! Poor Juliet. It was the sweetest moment in the sub, then Kate comes in and bam. Ouch. Juliet knows things won’t end well, because she’s heard this story before. I whole heartedly feel like she knows how it ends and she’s just waiting for the other shoe to fall. It’ll happen right before next weeks season finale thud!

    @Welshie – Heck yeah!!! Season 6 finale party! Let’s do it!!!

    And the “What did you see?” clips …. I get the feeling they are related to our show? Anyone know anything about them?

  12. Gracie Rose says:

    This episode felt a lot like season one to me. Locke was running around in the jungle with a torch and a mission, Sawyer was getting beat up for something, and trusty trigger-happy Sayid. (I must admit, I was actually hoping that Kate had been shot, but I’ll leave any further Kate-bashing off this blog.)

    One of the hidden highlights for me though was Miles finally realizing that his dad had kicked his mom and baby miles off the Island to save their lives…interesting that Miles was the one to convince his father to evacuate them though. Almost a grandfather paradox.

    I feel satisfied with the set up for the next episode.

  13. LostNTonic says:

    Biggest questions of all…

    Who’s the leader they should be following?

  14. Hugh Jackson says:

    I’d follow Vincent!

  15. Connie in Alaska says:

    What an episode! I was jumping up and down in my seat for almost the whole hour!

    Loved the reveal about how John sent Richard to help “himself” after he got shot and loved how he totally put Ben in his place about Jacob.

    My thought is that Jacob is either a parasite to the Island who has to be exterminated OR he is the Spirit of the Island whose time has come to move on. Either way, I think Locke has known ever since the “help me” episode that sooner or later Jacob would have to be dealt with. It is possible that Jacob was the original leader of whatever people first invaded the Island back in Egyptian times.

    We got to see so much more of Richard Alpert this episode. The mystique is wearing away the more we find out about him. He doesn’t seem to possess any supernatural powers other than long life and seems as much in the dark about everything as we are. Is he just a man, all be it a very old and very attractive man?

    Loved the “oh snap!” moment when Kate was ushered into the sub to put the wet blanket on Sawyer and Juliet’s little “we’ll have a wonderful life” moment of bliss. I think Kate and Radzinski should hook up…they both seem hellbent on spoiling all the interesting plans.

    Hilarious bit between Hurley and Dr. Chang regarding the past, and very touching moment as Miles realized that his father acted out of love and concern for him and did not desert him and his mother.

    I was so hoping we would get to see Jacob tonight…sigh.

  16. Nels says:

    Did not see that ending coming. Is Richard actually someone bad? Perhaps he’s actually been keeping Jacob locked up against his will? Certainly something is going on with Jacob that Richard isn’t in such a big hurry for Locke to find out about.

    Loved the admission by Miles that he was Chang’s son. That was a nice moment, as was the realization by Miles that his dad really did care. So, if Jughead goes off, doesn’t that mean that Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Jin and Hurley will die too since that is their present? And I’m hoping whatever is in Hurley’s guitar case is good. They are alluding to something surprising in there.

    Am I the only one who kept thinking that Sawyer, Juliet or Kate were going to bite it tonight? Seems to be foreshadowing one of them being killed.

    Going to need to watch it again to really gather my thoughts.

  17. Connie in Alaska says:

    I absolutely hated how they kept going back to Daniel’s dead body…sniff.

  18. Lucia in Oakland says:

    [Sorry! We discuss spoilers in our podcast, but redact them from our blog to spare those who don’t want to stumble across it… warning or no warning. We’ll see next week!]

  19. Connie in Alaska says:

    MLE: The sun doesn’t go down here until 10:30pm…sorry can’t wait

  20. Lucia in Oakland says:

    Hey, did anyone else notice that the music playing while the 2007 Others were marching down the beach with Locke to find Jacob was the same music used when the Losties were trouping down the beach thinking that they were getting off the island? (Wow, was that ever a run on sentence?!)

  21. Ben says:

    This is my fav episode of the season I think. It has some great looking shots and I can’t wait for next week!

  22. Knives Monroe says:

    Is Des and Pen and baby Charlie even a part in the LOST story now? Any theories on Des and Penny during the finale?
    Do they play a role..

    I miss them…

    Happy they’re together and in love with a baby, but I would like to see more of them, even if it isn’t life threatening.

  23. Kaysea says:

    WOW! what a great show!

    I really think Sawyer has changed and he loves Juilet. I got the feeling when he said “good riddance” to the Island he was also saying that to Jack and Kate. I think he is very tired of their drama. I really like Sawyer and Juliet togather.

    Kate and Jack….wow his “love” for her was really shallow huh? I didnt realize she liked him so much. I would have thought it was the other way around for both.

    Ben and Richard….I didnt think anything could get to them. But Lock sure is. But if Daniles plan is carried out and Lock is in the middle of rescuing the Island would that mean that he flashes to the present and is not longer trying to help the island then the Island is back to being under the control of Jacob?

    So we learned Richard is an Advisor….we we knew that its official now. I think he has been on the Island since the begining long before the Black Rock. What was up with the compass?

    I dont get how Lock was in the same time as he was in the past. I thought the plane landed in the future? So if he went to the beach would Jin still be there?

  24. Geeky Tom says:

    My new favorite Kate line:
    Since when is killing kids and blowing up hydrogen bombs o.k.?

  25. Knives Monroe says:

    That was probably the greatest line she’s ever said!

  26. helen says:

    I take it Jack and Kate forgot what the Oceanic 815 pilot said in the first episode. Flight 815 turned around and was flying in the other direction for at least a couple of hours. If the plane didn’t crash on the island it still wouldn’t have make it L.A.

  27. Knives Monroe says:

    Dang Helen, you’re absolutely right.
    Ay yi yi, Jack.

  28. Crissy says:

    The finale had better be worth Kate not dying.

  29. Yann From France says:

    Alleluia! After last week I was quite disapointed (especially due to the “comicon” video which is a fake now that Dan is dead and Miles and mother left the Island), but now: John is back! Back in bisness, back from the dead… just back!
    Jack and Sayid working together to change everything… they are the two guys who lost everything leaving the Island. Jack alcoolic, lost Kate, fed up with life. Sayid murderer, lost Nadia, fed up with life. The best thing ever for them would be to change everything!
    And Kate of course doesn’t want that! If the plane goes straight to LA she will go straight to jail!
    Sawyer doing a Sawyer: surviving!
    Ben now still being deciving… but working for Locke now!
    I mean: for once this season EVERYONE was consistant! The mythology is leading us who knows where but the caracters are consistant! That’s good! Really good!

  30. Bonita (from Atlanta) says:

    The show is so fun to watch, especially now with all the layers of mythology, character development and relationships.

    Loved: Miles expression when he saw Daddy talk meanly to his Mommy
    -even tho that was so telegraphed it was still well done
    Every scene with Locke
    Sawyer with Juliet
    Eloise with dead Daniel, but what did she read in the Journal
    that so convinced her?

    Why? Why has Kate changed from the “I’ve always been with you” to “we have to stop you”

    What about the looks exchanged between Richard and Ben? Sure, they’re following Locke now, but you get the feeling they’re looking for an opportunity to manipulate him again.

    Will we see any of those Others again? Could the Others and/or Dharma present a potential spin-off? I mean, LOST is a phenomena and when have we not known TV to try to repeat the magic, over, and over and over?

    Will you guys do some kind of live show after the finale?

  31. james c says:

    I know they will tie ALL of this up next year by flying on the plane once again, going through some tribulation, landing, and not knowing anyone on the plane…just as Kate told us last night. They will all end up complete strangers.

    THAT WILL BE THE ENDING. IT WAS JUST HANDED TO US.

    KATE IS CORRECT IN ALL HER ASSUMPTIONS.

  32. cat says:

    I thought this was perhaps the strongest set-up show before a finale yet. It moved with great pace and all the pieces have been put in place for next week’s episode. I’m staying away from spoilers because like some of the reader’s above, I learned my lesson from Season 3!

    Undead Locke is just plain creepy. He reminds me of undead Christian. I don’t know what it is about them but I don’t think any of them are good. In fact, the only one that I’m convinced is good on this entire show is Vincent!

    Love the idea of meeting in Hawaii for the series finale! We would have to have (at minimum) John Fisher, Paintergirl and Connie in Alaska!

  33. Danie says:

    My favorite part of this episode was the Hurley-Chang exchange, that ended in Hurley saying, “OK dude, we’re from the future” when he couldn’t answer who the president of the US was. Hilarious. I also found all the Miles scenes very touching. Loving season 1-esque John Locke. Yeah, I have to say I was not exactly upset when I thought Kate had been shot. What a great Sayid entrance. I was hoping for a little more back story on Richard, but I still enjoyed the episode. I have no idea where this show is going which is cool. I do have an ominous feeling for my fave character Desmond that he is going to have to make some huge sacrifice (Dickens “A Tale of Two Cities” style) though. I hope not, but I get the feeling. I’m also hoping that Phil gets his this season and we get to see the end of Radzinsky next season. That guy must have been in the Swan for over a decade–can you imagine being his hatch-mate?! Looking forward to the podcast as always!

  34. Elliot Thresher says:

    Wow, what an eppy. I thought the Miles/Dr.Chang moment was pivotal for 2 reasons. Clearly, it answers the question of why Miles’ mom left (and answered another daddy issue storyline). But, it also shows us that Dr. Chang actually defects from the Dharma initiative flunkies (to protect the Dharma women and children) and was on the island for a noble purpose (science). It also proves that at least one Dharma video (with a one-armed Chang) was made AFTER the incident and AFTER Chang evacuated the island. Thus, why did Chang make the videos and who were they intended for (if not Dharma people)? The flight 815 survivors circa 2004?

    Next week’s the game changing episode. Can we handle it?!!!

  35. Matt says:

    Maybe the dharma initiative can’t reproduce because they live on top of a nuclear bomb.

  36. Mike says:

    i’m nit-picking, as i often do but…

    why didn’t they enter the temple the same way that Ben did in “Dead is Dead”?

    Way to go ABC idiots for spoiling the fact that the SUB-folks don’t leave the island, brilliant!

    i think Locke is making a huge mistake for showing his hand to Ben. Is he really going to kill “Jacob”? I don’t know but i DO think that Jacob is a real person. weather he’s alive or dead as of this time period on the island, i don’t know. but i’m a firm believer that Jacob is/was a real person.

    Way to go writers for constantly throwing a wrench in the Sawyer/Juliet love life! Josh is such a good actor you could even see the “why the hell are you here screwing things up again Kate” look on his face.

    However…i do agree with Kate’s POV in this episode. Jack is off his freakin rocker.

    ok, that really urks me that Cuse came out and said the Faraday voice on the Comicon video was a continuity error…what does that mean even by “continutity error”? Does that mean Faraday makes the video with Candle at some earlier point in time? Or, does that mean that Faraday wasn’t supposed to be the one to make the video with Candle?

    My guess is that they work it in the story somehow (or just voice it in the official podcast) that is was Miles that films this scene and not Faraday…

  37. paintergirl1 says:

    @cat – Thank you! It was sweet of you to mention me with such greats as John Fisher and Connie in Alaska :).

    Last night’s episode got me to thinking about the different factions on the island that we don’t understand. Those factions that may or may not be working together. We have:

    The Smoke Monster – Responsible for Eko’s death, the scene with Ben and dead Alex, the death of the 815 pilot, etc.

    The Island – Tells Locke to rescue Eko from the polar bear cave, tells Locke where to go to rendezvous Richard and his past self, etc.

    Jacob – Is supposedly represented by Christian Shephard, asks for Locke’s help, is an unseen figurehead for the others.

    My husband and I were thinking of the possible similarities between Jacob and the representation of God in the His Dark Materials trilogy by Phillip Pullman. In it, God is trapped by Megatron. He isn’t really in charge, and is relieved when the main characters kill him (release him).

    Is it possible Locke is doing what the island and Jacob want by killing Jacob? Is it possible that the island, the smoke monster, and Jacob aren’t all necessarily on the same side? For example, why would the island tell Locke to rescue Eko only to have the smoke monster kill him immediately after?

  38. Dave says:

    After the previews last week, I thought this would be Kate’s chance to MATTER for once. I thought she’d have a problem with reversing the timeline and I was correct. I thought she’d take things into her own hands and oppose Jack. She did. Then she promptly got caught with little fanfare. Not even a shootout!
    Kate, kate, kate…

  39. frecklesmom says:

    About a month ago, I stopped asking questions (mostly because my head hurt) and just sat back for the ride. All in due time, I said. I am almost hoping everyone does die next week (yes! I just said it). I’m okay with letting them go. They’ve been through enough. Let them all get back together – whether it be 1977 or 2007 – and then croak in “the incident” – any incident (electromagnetic flash, H bomb, someone gets too close to themselves – whichever you fancy most). Ok ok, I do have one nagging concern: Desmond – when, why and how he’s going to end up back on the pile.

    Flashforward to season six and give us the island history, how the apparitions (Christian, Claire, Charlie, et al) operate, the Others’ backstories (a Richard-centric episode would be heart-stopping), and then the flashforwards of all the children – Walt, Charlie, Aaron, Ji Yeon. We’d see our Losties again through time jumps, but we need to get to the nitty gritty of how it all came to pass and will continue for the future.

  40. Carol says:

    Lucia- The music was also played in season one when the raft was taking off, and I think when the losties were “fake rescued” During that scene I kept thinking about the movie “Ten Commandments” and I told my husband it feels like Moses leading everyone to the burning bush.

    Biggest frustration of this season, sweeping statements and then the characters don’t ask for explanations. I know they do it for plotline purposes but it still drives me crazy. Example – Richard tells Sun that he saw everyone die. Why wouldn’t Sun ask how they died?

    re: Kate, Sawyer and Julliet, I do like Sawyer and Julliet as a couple but I think Julliet’s jealousy of Kate will be her undoing. It is obvious Sawyer still has feelings for Kate. Personally I think Kate and Jack deserve each other, they both are hot headed, and make bad decisions based on what they think is best for other people. The difference is the bottom line with Kate is that Kate comes first. Jack puts everyone else first.

  41. Lydia from Massachusetts says:

    I loved this episode! It left me confused and puzzling over it. I realized that’s what I love most about Lost and what had been missing in a bunch of the episodes this season that seemed too much in a rush to explain everything too quickly. And I love that finally Ben is confused too! It seems that for the first time, neither he nor Eloise know what is going to happen next.

  42. Carol says:

    Hey Lydia, I am from MA too. I agree it is so much fun to watch Ben be confused, though with him, you never know if he is faking it.

  43. Mike says:

    A lot of people have been stating that it’s fact that Christian Shepard “is” Jacob…i don’t recall any particular instant where they have given conclusive evidence than he is Jacob. I know Hurely seeing him in the cabin and the scene where he and Claire are in the cabin. But, i don’t believe that that is conclusive evidence that he is Jacob. I’m under the belief that Christian could be either the smoke monster or the physical manifestation of the “island”. My only real reasons for these speculations are that we’ve seen the smoke monster take the form of people in the past (Yemi and Alex), and we’ve seen the island take the form of people from the past (Boone, possibly Walt) So, i think it’s still up in the air whether Christian is Jacob or smokey or the “island”.

  44. CueDblU says:

    Kaysea, I agree about Sawyer confirming his changed persona last night. When he paused before getting in the sub, I thought he was going to decide not to get on – much like he jumped from the helicopter. I actually audibly said, ‘Oh no! No…..” Then, the new and improved Sawyer said ‘good riddance’ and entered the sub to be with Juliet. All was good for a bit – until Kate showed up… again.

    I, for one, hope Sawyer doesn’t return to his bad-boy persona. I like the redemptive arc his character has taken.

  45. Moriah says:

    @paintergirl1, I don’t disagree that the Island, Smoke Monster and Jacob may not all be working together but I don’t think that the example of Echo is proof of the theory. From the time it happened, I took it that the Island still had hope for Echo and wanted to save him to judge him and forgive him if Echo asked for forgiveness. When Echo felt no remorse and refused to ask for forgiveness, that was the nail in his coffin, so to speak.

    Loved the episode and look forward to the podcast!

  46. Mindstage says:

    Is it possible that Jacob doesn’t exist at all? John Locke eluded to this several times during the episode, challenging both Ben and Richard on the point. If Ben and Richard know there really is no Jacob, and that exposing the lie could undermine their authority over the others, that could explain their reluctant behavior, and Ben’s expression just before the thud.
    Clearly Richard is some sort of ageless superhuman, perhaps he and Ben manifested Jacob as a mythical “Wizard of Oz” ruler that no one can see or talk to, which makes it difficult to challenge his authority.
    Perhaps John’s reference to killing Jacob is merely a metaphor. He is only killing the myth, so he can have absolute power.

  47. Zhami says:

    Really enjoyed the ep, thought it had good pace.

    RA: I’m surprised by RA – was expecting him to be more “knowing.” Why would Ben call him an “advisor” ? I suspect Ben doesn’t really know all too much about RA. Also, don’t believe he is from the Black Rock — knows too much about the island, and doesn’t age.

    The Compass: what’s up with the compass? It has no origin except in a circular self-referential way.

    Jughead: I don’t believe one can detonate a hydrogen bomb all too easily. In fact, detonation of the fusion aspect of a hydrogen bomb requires the implosive force of a surrounding atom (fission) bomb.

    Eloise: some people wonder why she was so cold to Daniel. I’m not surprised, given that she birth a son whom she knows she, in her timeline, has killed, and that he, in his timeline, will be killed by here. Seems to me that it was implied that she is pregnant in 1977, and that Widmore is the Dad. What child is that?

    Well, if a Radzinsky D.I. “army” heads out soon to The Others camp based on Sawyer’s map, at least The Others won’t be there.

    Canon: Am really really disappointed in Darlton for the Comic Con video, Cruse now saying that it is a “continuity error.” Does that mean the entire video, or just that Faraday is the cameraman and voice.

    Locke: I don’t like at all this undead John Locke. Yes, he has mission and purpose – he always does when on-island and has always been a victim of circumstances when off-island. What does he mean when he says “the island told me” ? Of course, that should be “The Island.”

    Spoilers: Like many of you, I am now trying to refrain from spoilers because they take the oomph from the seeing an ep. That said, I do like all the theorizing that goes on about what is really going on.

    WHH: I’m still in this camp. For all of ever characters attempt to alter the past, events occur just as they need to in order that the future remains intact. Sayid kills Ben – but no: Kate saves Ben. And so on, and so I don’t believe than Jughead will explode. The Swan will be constructed. And Radzinsky will blow his head off. What puzzles me is this: why is it that people believe that Desmond is different? Perhaps all the odd interferences with Charlies death are also accounted for.

    Time Travel: I don’t like time travel for all its obvious and not so obvious paradoxes. I actually hope that the season 6 wrap-up for Lost transcends time travel, that it’s appearance is only a manifestation of how we are seeing the story, but some major reveal will show it not to be the case. I’d be happier to discover the players are all just players in a multi-player immersive virtual reality game. I know that would be unsatisfying to many fans, but at least such would allow resolution of all the bizarre unexplained fragments. Which of the Losties will make it to the heart of The Island in Level (Season) 6 and claim victory? lol

    Long post. Hope there is something of value here 🙂

  48. Rich in Cleveland says:

    Jack becomes Jacob. “I have never been more certain of anything.” (Famous last words) We know Jack initiates the incident, then there’s probably some last minute complication with the bomb or with Kate that he naturally has to fix and this displaces him from our dimension of time. Just as Ben and Widmore are perpetual adversaries, Locke’s foil and the only one I can imagine him wanting to kill is Jack. We’ve seen Jack already attempt to do the same to Locke. Finally, there’s the name. Could Jack just be a nickname for the more proper Jacob? Have we ever seen Jack’s name on a driver’s license or similar document?

    Is anyone else amazed at how quickly some character conflicts get smoothed over as those involved begin working together again. Sun only recently paddle-whacked Ben and now they’re march mates. I guess they only have each other, but this has happened many times before.

    Locke, as leader of the others, has become every bit as devious and ruthless as Ben if he’s actually going to kill Jacob. I was struck at first by the non-responsive response he gave to Sun. Will this help me reunite with Jin? “I don’t think we went through all this for nothing.” That’s not an answer! Later, he flat out lies to her saying “absolutely” with a smile on his face. He’s toying with Richard and Ben smugly from the vantage of his new omniscience. Maybe it’s because he thinks he’s finally seen through the big conn to discover the man behind the curtain.

    I love all things Lost when they’re done well so I have to say the paralovagram has never been better. That was really twisted bringing Kate on to the sub just as you felt you’d reached an emotional high point and closure with Jim & Jules. Equally as good were the scenes that Jack and Kate shared and whether they had a history of misery or a legacy of love. Could she have said anything more brutal than the stuff about Jack not knowing what he’s doing and being like Locke when he was at his most gullible and clueless worst? For all the J-haters, she’ll have another chance in the finale to “be with him” and have his back.

    The ship in a bottle: another snow globe and magic trick in one.

    Radzinsky’s a madman. How great is it that he’s going to lead an expedition out after the Others only to find they’ve abandoned their village in a mass exodus? As others have mentioned, the exodus theme reappears to great effect in another instance of the echo chamber of events. We also had the dive through the pool simulating Charlie’s dive to the Looking Glass and a captive character receiving yet another thrashing.

    There’s so much to say. Obviously, this was a great episode to set up the fork in the outlet after last week’s average effort . Can’t wait for the podcast.

    Defend the island.

  49. bertran says:

    unless i’m mistaken radzinsky is leading an army to the others’ camp in ’77 while it is the ’07 camp that has made an “exodus”. unless i missed something only ellie and richard left the ’77 others’ camp. right?

  50. Connie in Alaska says:

    Mike: I don’t think that the tunnels where Jughead is hidden is the same place as the temple. They may be connected somehow, but I don’t think so as they are some distance apart.

    Rich in Cleveland: I have always thought that the names “Jack” and “Jacob” were too close to be a coincidence and would not be surprised to find out they were one in the same. Locke and Jack have been adversaries just about from Day One, and to have them lock horns in some final battle between Science and Faith would be fantastic. It is also possible that Richard Alpert and Ben Linus KNOW that Jacob is Jack and have to protect his identity at all costs. For Jack to be Jacob would mean that his time loop goes WAY back!

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