The way the writers weave this kind of psychological material together with the time travel/sci fi stuff continues to blow me away. Bravo, dudes!

Perhaps Widmore is off Island building Widmore Industries? Perhaps he is tending to a young Penny?

I also like the theory of Alpert as Consiglieri, in the tradition of the Godfather stories. However, in the Sopranos mythology, Silvio acts both as a Captain and an adviser.

One minor, but I thought suggestive detail emerged from the visit to the supermarket. Kate asks Aaron if would prefer regular or chocolate milk (one light, one dark) and he opts for the third way. Juice BOX! This foreshadows what Locke will do in the future as Ben and Charles both try to use him.

A random connection from surfing around episode recaps. We’ve made quite a big deal about Ben’s convenient memory loss. As I looked back over the episode “One of Them,” Sayid interrogates Henry Gale aka Ben in the swan hatch. Anyway, Sayid punctuates his dismissal of Henry Gale’s story with the emotionally delivered phrase “You would remember!” Could TPTB have been hinting at this issue even then or is this just the patchwork fix it seems?

The third is the craziest leap from minor suggestion to grandiose theory of all. But that’s where the fun is… (Blinded by the Light.) What if the use of “Catch a Falling Star” is trying to inform us about something larger as well? What is a falling star? What phenomenon is usually thought of as the best way to warp space/time and create a wormhole that would permit nonlinear movement through it? A black hole. There, I said it. What this would have to do with Aaron I have no idea.

Defend the island.

i’m thinking of pre-cognitive ability & the determinism theory of ‘what happened happened’

my theory is that the leaders of the others have developed pre-cog ability
(possibly through the temple, an electomagnetic anomaly
or byproduct of radiation leaking from jughead)
we know for a fact that Ellie has ability to see the timeline ( 3×08-flashes before your eyes)
and as a result of the failsafe key incident Desmond has limited ability too.
I think Ben does too and thats why he doesn’t seem concerned that Keamy will kill Alex
because he’s seen the future and she doesn’t die.
I think one of the rules that Ben cryptically refers to is that they must NOTuse their precog ability to attempt to change the future.

Desmond has the ability too -but isn’t bound by the rules since he’s not an other -thats why hes the only one allowed to make changes eg he saves charlies life & somehow causes clare not to be on
the chopper- even though in his visions she was.

I think Widmore broke the rules first by having Keamy kill Alex & Ben has broken them too to get revenge on Widmore (i’m just not sure exactly how).
But I’ll think we’ll get some answers in 5×12 as to what the rules are & how Ben broke them & what the consequences are going to be for the Losties.
I think they might be
(i) they must NOTuse their precog ability to attempt to change the future.
(ii) once they leave the island they can’t go back
(iii) they can’t directly use their powers to kill one another
( eg in 4×09 -”Have you come here to kill me, Benjamin?”
“We both know I can’t do that.”)

I absolutely agree with you. I love Evangeline on the screen, she is a great actress. She’s done her best with the character she’s given, I only wish Kate would be more developed and versatile.

I love the show but I’m very aware of its weaknesses.

Nevertheless, I think Lost is one of the most intelligent fiction shows today.

In any case, the same goes for giving Aaron up. I do believe she would make that sacrifice but only because I like the character. I don’t feel like the writers have given us enough to really believe her character has changed so much – it is largely left up to us and our imaginations. I love that she is doing what is right by Aaron, and I love the friendship with Cassidy, but I hate that it’s all crammed into about 20 minutes of viewing time.

Since the “end date” of the show has been established, I feel like everything has been way too rushed. I’m all for reveals and moving along the storyline… but there is way too much skipping around – and I don’t mean the time skipping – I mean the gaping holes they leave in character storyline that are obviously never going to be filled. So I’m a little disappointed with how the show has been going, but I will, of course, watch until the end and be grateful for every episode!

Lost wins a Peabody (not April Fools)
By Robert K S, Lostpedia staff
Citing the show for having “rewritten the rules of television fiction”, the 16-member Peabody Board has awarded ABC Studios’ Lost a George Foster Peabody Award for distinguished achievement in broadcasting for 2008, making the announcement on April 1, 2009. Honored along with Lost are NBC’s Olympics coverage, CNN’s election campaign coverage, SNL’s political satire, TCM, The Onion, YouTube, and others. The award ceremony will take place on May 18, 2009 at New York City’s Waldorf-Astoria Hotel and will be hosted by NBC’s Brian Williams. Informed about the award by telephone from ABC Entertainment President Stephen McPherson, Carlton Cuse initially took the news for an April Fool’s joke. Read the press release: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/ABC_Medianet/ABC%27s_Lost_Wins_Peabody_Award

Also, just something to think about:
When stuff happens at Darmaville, conveinently the real doctor is never there, why??? Is this important or not. Is the doctor out so that we can see Juliet’s doctoring abilities? Or is the doctor going to be someone we know when we finally find out who he or she is?? I was thinking that the doctor might be Jack’s dad, but we do see a flash back in earlier episodes of Jack’s childhood with his dad, so it is unlikely it is him. And also Juliet and the other Losties might have told Jack that his dad was on the Island before they put his real name on the sub’s manafest.
Any thoughts?? Or is it nothing??

Plus everyone was in house arrest, why didn’t Myles take that time to get them up to speed on everything that happened in the last three years so they don’t make any mistakes.

I also want to see more Myles! He is so snarky, he cracks me up. What is his purpose there? I would love to see him near the temple and see what he discovers there with his special “skills”

The call to the freighter did bring Keamy’s team to the island, but can you blame Jack for not believing Ben or Locke at that point? He thought Ben had executed Sayid, Jin, & Bernard and Locke had just knifed Naomi. He was on an island on which he and his people had been kidnapped and terrorized. It was pretty clear even then that Ben was at best indifferent to whether they lived or died as long as they didn’t jeopardize an almost preposterously personified island. (In Jack’s mind) Not to mention the threats of polar bears, the smoke monster, limited food supplies. All this and the best interests of the survivors were balanced against the single fact that he once had a vision of his father there. Perhaps if Jack had opened his mind, he would have seen the special nature of the island earlier. However, from a rational perspective, he made all the right moves there. The casualties inflicted by Keamy: Alex, Carl, Rousseau, Claire? and some red shirts at the barracks all of whom went with Locke.

Sayid shoots Ben, Jack refuses to help, Juliet suggests giving him to Alpert, Sawyer and Kate bring him to the Temple. Ben then loses his innocence, grows up, kills Dharma, and manipulates and murders the Losties in 2004. They literally causes of their own suffering. Just thought that was interesting.

@Lydia: It’s because earlier in the episode Hurley asks “Oh yeah, then how come Ben didn’t recognize Sayid, the guy who shot him?”, and Miles replies with “…Huh. Hadn’t thought of that.”. His theory has a hole in it. Then Alpert says “Oh, he won’t remember this.”, filling in the hole. Seems like a direct answer to Hurley’s question to me.

To all the jack haters out there: ease up on the poor guy. For the better part of 4 seasons, he always did what he thought was right, which almost always blew up in his face, and resulted in significant personal cost. Let me count the ways:
1. He ratted-out his father to the medical board, which accelerated Christian’s eventual demise.
2. He helped torture Sawyer to get Shannon’s inhalers; only to shift Kate’s affections away from himself and toward Sawyer for the first time.
3. He remained intensely committed to his profession after getting married, eventually leading Sarah to leave him.
4. He vouched for Juliet when she first joined the losties, causing his friends to mistrust him and his motivations.
5. Finally, he gets himself and as many people as possible off the island and back home! Sweet right? Except lots of people die in the process, the ghost of his father visits him back home, and he becomes alienated from his friends and loses his soon-to-be wife. Oh yeah, he also lost his job, became addicted to alcohol and painkillers, and tried to commit suicide.

The point is: the dude has been through a lot. Given all that has resulted from trying to do “the right thing,” it is not surprising that he would have second thoughts when presented with whether to save a dying Ben. And in spite of what the other characters argued: Ben isn’t just some kid. If it was just “some kid,” it would be easy for anybody to jump in and help out. But when the kid in question is Ben, a tormentor/killer of you and your friends (lest we forget all the misery he has heaped on Juliet, Sayid, Locke, etc.), the ethics become somewhat muddied. Good for Jack to at least acknowledge that.

But this character turn for Jack is good. He’s learning from his past mistakes that almost led to his demise. Jack’s new and radically different philosophies and/or faith, could possibly imply that, at the end of this, he may have a shot at salvation.

Looking forward to your latest thoughts,
Christian

i cant wait to find out what jacks purpose is going to be, i think that set up was nice and will pay off when the island gives him his true calling

happy anniversary guys.

Weemzy

I wouldn’t have written so voluminously if I didn’t absolutely LOVE Lost.

My long rant betrays how much passion I have for the show. In fact, I opened by saying how much I love Damon and the writing.

And I also tune in every Wednesday in HIGH DEF (the jungle looks great in high def). And of all the podcasts, Ryan and Jen have the most professional and enjoyable. My favorite thing is to hear everyone call in with their theories and insights.

I have even conjectured that Lost might be the first show to incorporate television writing 2.0 — that is, informed by fan interpretation, the hive mind that we all share online.

Think about it. If the producers are ever lost, they need only consult the volumes people write here that manage to make sense of all the clues. I think they might even have written Jack and Claire as being siblings this way. Because many people made that leap online long before the revelation.

Can you imagine the future of storytelling this way? Amazing to think about. There are such incredible theories online. They change from time to time, as new episodes validate or invalidate them, but they are nonetheless fascinating.

It is almost as if many possible alternate trajectories of the show have existed over the years through our own fantasies of what is happening on the island. This is the true power or Lost.

The way it empowers us to dream, to envision, to speculate, to make meaning, to wonder…

2. I can’t forget about that book from the last episode the book a “separate reality” on wikpedia they said that it is a book about a teacher mentoring a student. So was this suppose to mean that Sayid is Ben’s student? Was that the killing he was doing in the real world?’ Was Ben testing Sayid’s fate the way the island was testing Jon? Is sayid ben’s predecessor?

3. I can’t stop thinking about the parallel of Ben’s character with Walt. I truly wonder if the writers where going to center the show around Walt, his special powers and tell the story in chronical order, but realizing the concept of age, decided to introduce the concept of Ben and talior what would happen to Walt to happen to Ben’s character.

@James – I feel so sad that you feel disappointed by the show’s evolution. I feel sad for myself that the best television I have ever seen will be gone in just over a year. Over 100 hours of continually improving quality programming (by most folk’s standards) would not be possible with anything that started out even half as good as Lost did. I’m just glad I was around for the ride and have something to look forward to that continually interests me and gives me a lot to think about. But if avoiding a shark jump is what you want out of life, there are plenty of quality programs based on REALITY, like History channel, Discovery, PBS, ESPN, etc. And I’m not trying to be snarky, I really enjoy quality non-fiction. But when I am wanting an adventure ride I could never dream of, I tune in to ABC on Wednesday nights @ 8pm CST.

Seriously. That Happy Days episode was in 1977, and we’re still referencing it.

I liked the rant. Agreed, we all put up with a lot from the writers too. The “Ben will be different and won’t remember anything” explanation sucks. And yes, they jumped the shark when the Island moved last season. Anything goes after that!

Buy we’re all still hanging in there though. We are way beyond trying to get off of the Island from Season 1.

We know Ben goes into the Temple and “his innocence will be lost” so maybe his redemption will come in the last season as we see him battle himself to try to regain what he lost in his resurrection. In any case, mark these words: Ben is not evil; he’s just ambitious.

I must agree with Jen that we don’t yet know Ben’s full story by a long shot. We have carefully been conditioned to see the DI as good and the Hostiles and bad, and certainly Ben’s actions have been perceived as evil up to this point, deeds worthy of a death sentence many times over. HOWEVER, it ain’t over yet! We may come to find out in Season 6 that the DI were up to no good, intentionally or not, perhaps involving the Jughead bomb, and that their extinction was warranted. The possiblities are pretty much endless here: plague, nuclear meltdown, time traveling mishaps, etc. My point is that we are too quick to condemn Ben and by extention Jack for not killing Ben when he had the chance. The jury is out until the final “thud”.

i’m somewhat disappointed Ben’s memory is to be wiped clean– if he were to remember how awful the Losties were to him as a child it might give him some justification, however slight, in his behavior towards them later in life… no wonder Ben would hate them so much if he remembered how they had treated him when he was most vulnerable and needy (bringing up another thought, what came first, the chicken or the egg– did the Losties turn their back on Ben because he’s so horrible to them when they arrived on the island or was Ben so horribly manipulative because of what the Losties did to him as a child?)…

no matter which way you slice it tho, you’d have to be pretty cold hearted to not feel at least some sympathy for Young Ben… but i think i’m with jen– there’s seems to be no room for Ben’s redemption, albeit a twist like that would be in true Lost style…

and if i have to see that scene by the dock one more time i might scream! every moment of screen time is so precious and almost every episode this season they’ve wasted several minutes repeating snatches of scenes that we’ve already seen… we’re smarter than this! there’s gotta be a better, more artistic (and shorter!) way to do that…

adore the podcast!!

i actually thought the second half of season three and all of season four were top-notch and gripping — i agree this season, while I still adore this show, has felt stifled — it would have been nice to see more meaningful interaction off-island, such as between Kate and Cassidy — am still looking forward to more poignant explanations of the O6 return and their purpose and the island’s destiny, etc. — in the meantime I am being faithful and patient

About that last comment of Richards and not listening to Charles and Ellie …What was Ellies roll? Charles wife? Sounded like more. I still think Widmore is Daniels dad…and maybe Charlotte’s too. But I think she had a different mother.

Whatever happened was pretty weak, but don’t despair, the next episode looks like it will be pretty amazing.

You make a very good point that we can’t return to the eden of not knowing, that any revelation is intrinsically corrupt because it removes mystery, and the very essence of why lost is superb. No one will be happy at the resolution — not completely. But we fans afford these writers the liberty to take us on a ride. And I still do. The four-toed statue, Smokey, Richard Alpert — these are all still areas I think could be creative gold.

Having said that, I must still be critical (in the intellectual sense of the word) and recognize when the emperor is wearing no clothes. As an avid fan of television writing, and Damon Lindelof, I am very eager to give acclaim when an episode is great. And not just those amazing season one episodes like “Walkabout,” but later episodes as well.

For those who are not aware, a storytelling paradigm was passed from JJ Abrams to Damon Lindelof, and that is the notion of the reversed expectation. A great example is the reveal that Bernard was white, when audiences expected him to be black.

The writers of LOST have come to rely on this technique as their principle weapon against cliche. Lost is an amalgum of many different ideas, and so by constantly thwarting what we readily expect, they keep it fresh and new. That’s why we all write and talk about it the next day.

They literally have gone on record — check the original official podcasts — and said that love to take an idea, ask themselves ‘what is the opposite of this?’ and then write that.

My grievance is when they do this and there is a fundamental shift in expectations that is beyond the scope of “cool” and it the realm of disappointing — because it undermines TOO MUCH exposition from previous episodes.

We all remember how “the others” were originally characterized as being almost supernatural. They can go through the jungle without leaving tracks! In season two, they were truly scary. And best of all, they seemed to know what was going on the island! They have taken the children! Why, for what nefarious purpose?

Now in season three, in the first conceit of the show, they were revealed to be a suburban community with a book club. Despite a Viking-like funeral service, which was never really consistent with other exposition, there was this odd domesticity to Ben’s house, complete with a chicken sandwich in the fridge.

All of the sudden the island was not longer as rogue or hostile. We put up with the convenient food supplies in the hatch as a contrivance. Perhaps they could stumble upon canned goods in some old WWII hatch, but now they had a civilization complete with plumbing and infrastructure. While this was unexpected and even cool, we can’t help but feel the stakes lower.

Critical plot elements: the missing children, Walt’s abilities to manifest reality, and many other must-knows were just thrown out as we switched gears. Kind of like Mr. Eko.

If you are skeptical, consider this; do you remember when traveling through the jungle was dangerous? Traveling through the jungle is practically safe now, whereas at one time you were assured of destruction through the smoke monster.

To add insult to injury, and to recoup losses, the others are no longer the real others, and natives have taken that role. But lying in between these decisions as a gaping hole, evidence of the switch, is the character of Juliet, who at one time acted very wise, and now seems to know nothing. She seems to embody the contradictions more than any other character.

Now as a fan you can explain away the inconsistencies, but your mind knows they are there and they detract from the “wow factor” Lost used to create.

It can all be explained of course, through mechanical episodes that dot every “i” and cross every “t.” You can tell me why Kate became so maternal, and Sawyer is such a sweetheart, but that is like telling me the emperor is wearing a tuxedo.

This was never so egregious as in the last episode when Hurley gives a voice to the BS, and mutters aloud how preposterous the time travel has become, just so wink-wink, the audience knows that the producers know, this is officially COMPLICATED.

And that is the problem. It is just a big mess. And they are desperately trying to avoid what happened to Heroes and other shows by playing catch-up.

Remember when Claire put a message in a bottle in her brilliant attempt at rescue? Does anyone think we are in that same show anymore, where we want to know where they are, and how they can get home? You know, the reason everyone watched Lost.

But now they have already been home in the ill-conceived Oceanic 6 story line. The Portugese people who were looking for them with Penny. Who cares? How Walt was manifesting things and why that mattered? Who cares? Now it’s all about a global chess game between Ben and an old British guy. And we have to get back to the island because it’s destiny. Or was it because Ben told us to? Or was it because Jin is still there? Or because Kate loves Sawyer. Or the baby needs its real mother? Maybe a bit of… everything Snooze. Let’s go back to destiny.

Destiny being code for “we’ll figure it out later.”

Once down becomes up, and up down, what does it matter who Jacob is? There are no ground rules anymore!

How about the wise old lady with the pendulum? Brilliant science fiction or stop-gap scene to get us back to the island. Oh, and how do they do it? An Arabic flight and then — poof — they wake up in the jungle. Cool, right?

No, lazy writing. What should be the most important scene in Lost history is glossed over while my tv dinner cooked. Oh, it doesn’t quite matter what the island is, but let’s back, because Ben says WE MUST!

Guys, this show won the emmy in season one because it was AMAZING.

The second season dropped off in quality, but still had this cool sci-fi slant, with Hanso and the Dharma Initiative. It creepy, weird and cool.

Season three dropped significantly in quality yet again, but had some season saving episodes. Love Charlie’s final episode, when they recruited Juliet, etc…

Season four. Yes, folks, the show jumped the shark. No loner even the same narrative structure. But you just couldn’t tell. That archeology stuff in the desert was cool, so I hung in there until…

Season five. Nope, confirmation that it jumped. Now WAY too complicated. No emotional stakes. No narrative thrust. Characters are completely different. Dharma revealed to be officially not that cool. No one even dies anymore(previously the way the writers clean up story lines and got rid of poorly behaved actors). Now, I don’t even think characters can die.

Season six. James proved wrong after new rattlesnake in the mailbox moment somehow redeems previous two seasons through incredibly brilliant twists. Reduction of Ben’s dominance in plot. Return of Hanso and meta-plot of saving the world. Jack and Kate revealed to be the skeletons in season one. Similar to Adam and Eve, they are the ones who regenerate civilization after an apocalypse. Okay, so maybe that last part doesn’t happen, but enough of Ben, Kate’s stupid relationship with Aaron, the tryst of Sawyer and Juliet, a constantly flummoxed Jack, and a complete inability to get to the Natives and their story, which is clearly where the story-telling wants to go, but can’t get there, most likely, because as someone here pointed out, that is probably season six stuff.

Thanks for reading my vent. No more posts. Thanks for putting up with the length.

James

I hope Ben is judged with the same level of scrutiny as Eko. But we still don’t know for sure whether or not Ben is actually good or bad. HE does evil things, but that doesn’t make him evil, does it?

I really love LOST, and I think this season is one of the best and your podcast is definitely the best out there.

ONE OF US
Do you think that Alpert Lied about the effect of “saving” Ben?
It was more interesting to believe that Ben always knew the Losties from his past. he will remember- but he will lie… He won’t ” always be” a hostile – but choose to be with them.

YOU DON’T KNOW JACK
I can’t believe how people have turned on Jack. He had the right idea. Wouldn’t they all feel like dopes if their actions caused Ben to become the man they all know and hate? well guess what? Stop helping Ben already. Thanks Juliet Sawyer and Kate… for nothing. nice try Sayid

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
..are you still sure you want to give him to us?
uh no. Now that you said all of that creepy stuff we’d rather that he just died out here in the woods. THUD

Of course Sawyer and Kate aren’t consistent. Sawyer has spent three years on the island; Kate became a mom. Of course they’re not like the people in season one. If they were, the show would be really boring. It would be even more boring if they were still stuck on the island with the pissed-off giraffe.

Nobody knows what the deal is with Ben yet. That’s what makes him so interesting. Maybe he’s a crutch, but he’s a damn sight better-written than any villain on any tv show I can think of. I defy you to come up with another funny, creepy, scary, smart character like him.

And the season isn’t over yet. No, Desmond has been mostly M.I.A. So what? He was missing the whole second season.

He wasn’t being cruel, I don’t think, but he had enough faith to know that Ben would live since he is alive as an adult.

Let’s have faith in him. He knows he’s supposed to be on the Island, but he’s not yet sure why. He’s like a Season 1 Locke. And look how far he’s come.

@ Angela from MA: great point about Kate leaving California without any bells going off. And the whole Auntie Kate thing, I don’t get either. I was wondering, though, we never see Clementine right? Do you think that means something?

@ minnie: excellent point. that was the other thing I was confused about. If Ben won’t remember “this” how would he recognize Sayid or know the Losties well enough to make the List? But you’re right, the “this” probably is the resurrection in the Temple.

@ James: We’re too deep in to go back. The thing is as humans, we have a need to want to figure things out, we want answers, but we really are just enjoying the mystery so when we get the answers, we want to go back to not knowing. Like in season three when we learned about the Others, some people were let down. I wasn’t. But some were. But then the crafty writers introduced Jacob as this big mystery to keep us hungry.

I digress. Anyway, I think the writers have been very good at shaping seasons around groups so, in essence, we learn about the show backwards:

Season 1: the Losties
Season 2: the Tailies
Season 3: the Others (Ben’s Others)
Season 4: the Freighter folk
Season 5: Dharma Initiative
Season 6: the real Others (my guess is that we will learn the true nature of Alpert’s Others in the final season)

So we have been going backwards in time the whole time.

It is a well known fact that Damon and company did figure out the “end game” until somewhere inbetween years 2-3, and even the most meticulous genius cannot write backwards to make it work out seamlessly.

The moment they introduced time travel they put themselves under the narrative guillotine. They are doing a fine job juggling all of the mythological elements, but the conversation between Hurley and Miles over the time paradoxes was not refreshing, but exasperating, further proof of what the audience is thinking: this is not the logical, scientifically grounded mythology the producers promised us years ago.

Do not think me a traitor. I am a die-hard fan, but i cannot help but think Sawyer and Kate are no longer consistent with who they were only seasons ago.
Worse, Jack has devolved in passive fly on the wall, and other characters — Claire comes to mind — have exited in very unsatisfying ways.

It used to be a joke among Damon and Carleton that Lost would soon be about zombies — the infamous season seven. But now I think that this joke is strangely closer to the truth than any other theory. I imagine Richard carrying Ben to something akin to Pet Cemetery in the last episode.

When did Lost become about ghosts, time travel, and the silly antagonism of Ben and Widmore?

Do you remember there was once a character named Hanso? That there were mysterious numbers that designated the end of the world? That there were a powerful chemistry between Jack and Kate that writers since destroyed?

If you want to know one concrete example of how the Lost writers are truly Lost, look no further than the character of Juliet, or the poorly executed “freighties.” Who the f*** is Charlotte?

It’s season five, and you are going to introduce yet more characters? Really? You think that is a good idea to focus on Ethan’s mom at this point instead of Desmond?

Take me back to that original Lost. To that wonderful, frightening world where I thought the island was much more mysterious. And cool.

Is Ben really that manipulative and omniscient, or is he a crutch for the writers when they need to write backwards to make lines connect?

I think Lost peaked in the season two finale, which I think is among the best two hours of television. Period.

Note: you will not see Stephen King publicly lauding Lost anymore in the press. Because I think he feels the same way.

Lost is now officially lost.

I hope they come back.

Jack’s whole dynamic is that he is always trying to save people. He’s constantly cristicized for it but then the same people who criticize him turn around and ask him to step in and save the day.

In the midst of trying to get past his savior complex he’s presented with young dying Ben, and a long explanation that regardless of what anyone does, Ben can’t die anyway because he’s alive in the future. I think that explains his decision not to save someone he hates, again.

Sawyer wanted to make him a janitor, but then when it suits Sawyer’s purpose he expects Jack to step into a phone booth and re-emerge as a spinal surgeon.

But one thing I cannot understand at all is how Sawyer and Kate can just hand Ben over to Alpert without first talking to Roger Linus. Neither of them knew Roger was abusive and Kate actually felt sympathy for him in the Infirmary. Especially with Kate’s fear that Aaron would be “taken,” how could she do that to somebody else’s child? I don’t get it.

Audiences may not like this seemingly more fickle, wimpy Jack, but I think it his scene with Juliet this past episode was incredibly powerful in conveying his full transition from the science-based Jack of Seasons 1-4 to a more Locke-like “Man of Faith” that the Island has made him become. I think out of all the characters on this show, Jack has made the most compelling and intriguing character shift.

The only thing I got out of it really was the point that Ellie and Charles are in charge of the others but Alpert is willing to go behind their backs. Ben will, oh so conveniently, forget about being shot by Sayid and, as predicted, Aaron was left with his granny.

On the Kate story, I am not at all convinced that Kate has changed. I got the impression she was lying about going back to find Claire and is, in fact, running away from her responsibility after realising she isn’t cut out to be a mum. She was still hoping to get back with Sawyer so the realisation that he is happy with Juliette hurts.

I actually thought for a moment in that supermarket scene that Aaron had ceased to have ever existed which would have been a great game changer (if contrary to the time rules of Lost) but no, he had just wandered off as toddlers do. I think that was the point at which Kate realised she needed to let him go.

Anyway, slow episode, easily the least interesting of season 5 but at least it had that light moment with Hurley and Miles basically ramming the Lost rules of time travel down our throats again with Hugo playing the dense viewer who can’t get past Back to the Future style multiple realities. Comedy genius.

In a earlier post I questioned why Amy and Paul were picnicing outside
the Sonic fence. The answer is…..Amy is a SPY! Why else would she break
“the truce”? Try this on for size:

1. Amy, particularly in her role as wife to Horace, is privy to most of
the dark secrets of the DI.

2. All the evidence points to the others having spies inside Dharma
(Including Ben).

3. She learns of Horace’s intent to wipe out the others.

4. Tells Widmore who then acts first and wipes out the DI with poison gas.

5. Amy escapes the purge and goes back to her “home” with Ethan.

6. I do think Paul was an other- as soon as horace asked amy for the body I was convinced.

7. This also explain why she called for Sayid’s death – she alone if she’s a spy among
the Dharmites knows that Sayid is NOT an Other…

In my opinion, Paul has been “reincarnated and is waiting for Amy with
the others.

There is something fishy about Amy, mark my words!

Also remember that an anagram for Ethan Rom is OTHER MAN

I think Jack’s subdued nature is perfectly understandable. For the last 4 seasons it seemed every time he has tried to lead, there is an unexplainable/supernatural twist. Remember this is a guy who was seconds away from suicide; was addicted to narcotics; feels responsible for many lives lost and decisions made; and has a haunting dead or not-so-dead father. Every step of the way Jack’s leadership was questioned, and then when he challenged Sawyer upon returning to the island he was once again criticised. Jack isn’t a wimp, he just doesn’t see the point in controlling things like before. With the experiences on and off the island he is no longer a man of science, but a man of faith.

Likewise, Matthew Fox, a great actor! But his character goes from strong and in control to a weak wimp on a regular basis… making it hard for me like “Jack”. Sawyer, on the other hand, just keeps getting “better” in every way!!!!

However, the reception that Sawyer & Juliet have given Jack, Kate & Hurley has bugged me since their return to the island. The former waited 3 years for Locke to return with the latter, to SAVE them. Just because Locke did not make it back with Jack, Kate, & Hurley would not make them less welcome. I understand their life has been fairly pleasant in Dharmaville, especially for Sawyer and Julie. who for the first time have apparently found “real” love. I understand they need to use discretion, but I expected some private catch-up conversations between these “old friends”, as well as some mutual planning… instead they are far too adversarial! THANK goodness this issue seemed to be improving by the end of the episode when we saw Sawyer come out to help Kate with Ben. I am looking forward to seeing the Losties work together in their dealings with Dharma & the others! Of course that does not mean I will not continue to enjoy the internal conflict between Jack & Sawyer, and Kate & Juliet!

Richard Alpert: In the popup episode of Namaste he is described as an “advisor” to the Hostiles. Somehow he is one of them, yet not one of them. They have a hierarchy, headed apparantly by Ellie and Charles W., but RA somehow supercededs their authority.

As RA pauses at the door of the Temple with the dying boy-Ben in his arms I totally expected to see him morph into Smokey! That would hve been awesome!

Loved how they fleshed out Roger Linus. Was that a spark I saw in his eyes for Kate? Now that would be a twist!

Finally, about Jack. At first I was frustrated with his refusal to help Juliet, but then I realized he is determined not to mess it up “this time” and let the Island or Fate guide his steps. He knows Ben lives. He doesn’t have to jump in and help…the outcome will be the same whether he helps or not, and as it turns out, his decision is the right one. Had he behaved like the Old Jack, Ben never would have gotten to the Hostiles, which is what I think was supposed to happen.

It reminds me of that episode of Seinfeld when George Costanza discovers that when he does the exact OPPOSITE of what he usually does, life goes better for him.

Happy happy anniversary! You guys ROCK!

A few more comments:

- I burst out laughing when Jack started into his “Are you telling me that…?” routine again, I feel like they make him say that every episode. He is becoming like some kinda humorous Jerry Seinfeld with his questions. That said, I LOVE the new Jack. The best way he can help himself and others is by NOT HELPING. Other people can shine when he backs off, and Kate can find new motivation rather than just “tagging along” with Jack (and stringing poor Jackie along). Sink or swim, she’ll have to do it on her own. Jack’s true purpose will become clear.
*
Did it creep everyone out the way Juliet kept saying “fresh blood”? I am still leaning towards the side of thinking she fed Ben to The Others as a new recruit. Her smile creeps me out. Can’t Sawyer just go celibate or date one of the red shirts instead?
*
Was anyone confused about Sawyer and Kate’s emotional moment at the fence while a 12-year old boy (who Kate claimed to care about) was bleeding to death in that VW bus? If they wanted me to believe that Kate actually cared about Ben, that scene really eroded all possibility. Seems she was just looking for brownie points and attention as usual.
*
Also why were the Others so red clay-dusty (even usually steam-cleaned, buffed, and waxed Richard)? are they working on something? digging or??
I’m curious whether Christian will be there in the temple.
*
This episode was OK, but I hope next week is more action and less filler!

“Hey, sound editor — I’m tired of the over-emotional violins every time I see Kate.”

OMG, AGREED! what in the world were those over the top John Williams heart-tugging strings! enough already.

I have to agree. I am not anti-Kate per se, I just feel like there were some huge wonky leaps in this episode and my belief just sorta fell through the cracks. It’s not the character’s fault or E. Lilly (never her, I think she is just so cute and really improving loads as an actress), I just don’t think the writers developed it in a believable way. I just don’t get her character’s motivations anymore. Save Ben? Find Claire? It all just seemed so last-minute improvised in order to give Kate some purpose

*
paintergirl1 said:

“I agree with many here that Ben forgetting the shooting incident will be a bit too much of a deus ex machina.”

I think so too. As Richard gave his long speech about what was gonna happen to Ben, a big GIMMEABREAK flashed in my mind. What happened to cool calm and mysterious Richard? His talk reminded me of Pierre Chang in the first episode of the season when he unnecessarily told the workman that whole schpiel about time travel. It was almost like Richard should have just stared straight into the camera and said it to us. COME ON!

I have to agree. I am not anti-Kate per se, I just feel like there were some huge wonky leaps in this episode and my belief just sorta fell through the cracks. It’s not the character’s fault or E. Lilly (never her, I think she is just so cute and really improving loads as an actress), I just don’t think the writers developed it in a believable way. I just don’t get her character’s motivations anymore. Save Ben? Find Claire? It all just seemed so last-minute improvised in order to give Kate some purpose

*
paintergirl1 said:

I think so too. As Richard gave his long speech about what was gonna happen to Ben, a big GIMMEABREAK flashed in my mind. What happened to cool calm and mysterious Richard? His talk reminded me of Pierre Chang in the first episode of the season when he unnecessarily told the workman that whole schpiel about time travel. It was almost like Richard should have just stared straight into the camera and said it to us. COME ON!

I’m really confused by what you are saying about Juliet. She’d been on the island for much more than two years before the plane crash. To become fluent in Latin in that span of time is unusual, but not impossible. We also don’t know if she was picked to join the Others solely for her fertility skills, but I think she arrived without foreknowledge of them (no matter how much knowledge they had of her). Why do you think she arrived 108 days before the turning of the donkey wheel?

@bevans, although I have not read any Harry Potter books (Shh! don’t tell, I get scared easily) I love the idea of the Others having a prophecy and a secret identity of their leader they are trying to solve.
One small hitch is that Jack could not be morally responsible for his father’s death, at least not by current moral standards in most societies, but do you know who else is? KATE! (Maybe she will have a miraculous recovery of her broken heart – wink, wink!)

@Bill – Let’s not forget that although socialist in some aspects there is a chain of command – military like structure and code. I am just surprised it isn’t “Workperson” in case a female should have an appropriate aptitude score for that position.

@Mark Belles – Juliette was recruited by and living among the Others when 815 crashed, I am confused why you state that on the day of the crash she did not appear to have inside knowledge of the Others? She was hosting a book club meeting with them.

Regarding Mr. Friendly – I hope we recognize some younger Others, what fun! Perhaps we can watch earlier seasons and spot an older version of Sayid, the one that crashed from 316 in 1977, got detained by the DI, escaped, and maybe joined the Others. Although I doubt he is considered “good” enough… but I can dream. I wonder if maybe he had to build and live in a little man-cave, maybe the one that Rousseau is eventually found living in by Sayid in 2004? Hmmm…..

Too many things to think about, too many tangents. Kleenex for my nosebleed, please!

That, it seems, would be an infraction of uniformity their socialist culture demands.

The knick knack paddle whack must occur prior to the Locke/Ben meeting. Ben was making a break for the big island, got hit, and then wound up in the infirmary where Locke found him.

I know this theory is a stretch, but i figure we’ll find out before end of this season.but i don’t see why else hide jacobs identity in shadow, unless it pays off with a big reveal later(similar to Denise Crosby emerging from the shadows in ST:TNG s04e26),

I loved that Kate sort of redeemed herself in this episode by owning up to the fact that although she cares deeply for Aaron, he is not hers to keep. I was happy to see her confront Clare’s mom.

But what I really wanted to talk about was this:
I was rewatching “The Man Behind the Curtain” with the commentary track on and Damon and Carlton mentioned that Annie (Ben’s childhood friend) and Olivia (the blond school teacher) were to significantly factor in the “end game” for Lost. I know people have still been talking about and expecting a reappearance from Annie, but I haven’t heard anyone mentioning Olivia. Has anyone caught a glimpse of her in “darma-ville” in the recent episodes?

Furthermore, it has been assumed that she was Horace’s wife when she first appeared in season 3, but Horace is now with Amy…I’m wondering what happened, and if Horace’s question to Sawyer if “three years was long enough” to get over someone was really a question he was asking himself about Olivia.

Any thoughts?

Thanks dudes!

As for Ben’s reaction to Locke, I don’t trust it. I believe he acted shocked to see John alive, because that was the reaction he wanted Locke to *think* he was feeling. As always, I’m sure it’s just part of a longer manipulation.

Theories:
-Ben still knows about the Losties around from his youth, they will still be there when he is mended by Richard and returned. Some parts of his history may not be told to him correctly, such as where he was born, etc., perhaps, but I think he’ll still know how to get around Dharmaville, and be reintroduced to his friends like Annie, and community members like LeFleur, Juliette, etc. Remember, when the Purge happened, he was in a DI uniform that said his name and “workman” so he is a mole when he returns.
– Young Faraday and Penny are on the island, but they are not the natural born children of Ellie and Charles. They are DI children that are stolen by the hostiles. I re-watched the scene on the vote to kill Sayid, and Amy stated that she feared for her child and all the children there. I still think she has other motives to have Sayid killed, but the rationale she made does not make sense unless the Hostiles have purposely targeted children, like they did after the crash of 815. Remember the scene of Ben and Annie in class when the hostiles attacked? His teacher, Olivia, grabbed a gun from the classroom. I doubt they have guns in every room on the DI compound, but having one in a school room makes me think children may be common targets by the hostiles.

OK, great responses everyone. The best posters are here.
Ryan and Jen, thanks for all you do!

We just need to wait and see the missing pieces: what type of interaction/conversation Ben and Locke have? What does he do after e regains cosciousness at the beach? How does he reach the other island to get to the temple? And my guess is w will see all that next week.

Richard: After this procedure he will not remember any of this and
his “innocence” will forever be LOSt.

OMG what just happened? You mean to tell me that is the excuse they are
going to give Ben for being EVIL?

This is a lousy excuse (if you ask me).

A SERIOUS Black Hole in this story!!

So this Temple only generates EVIL people? Is that what we are to believe
that the others are? And look at the innocent people who got into their way:

1. U S army – Killed by the others.

2. Rousseau’s team – going into the Temple made them MURDERERS?

3. DHARMA – KIlled by the others.

4. Black Rock passengers – probably killed by the others.

5. The 815′rs that wasn’t on “the list” – most killed by the others.

So we come up with this equation?

Temple = MIND CONTROL?

~ THE Pemstar Inititave ~

Alot of questions have appeared about Richard’s role on the island.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_religion

On this page, it discusses many aspects of Egyptian Mythology, but specifically I will be referring to people and their heirarchy in this religion.

Richard – Priest – The pharaoh was Egypt’s intermediary with the gods, so in theory, priests merely acted on his behalf. (possibly Ben was a priest at one time too and didn’t follow the Ma’at).

Widmore and Elle – Great Chief – any foreign ruler, no matter how powerful, was simply called “great chief.”

Christian – Pharoh – Egyptians viewed kingship itself as a force of nature; thus, the pharaoh, or king of Egypt, was both human and divine. He therefore acted as intermediary between Egypt’s people and the gods.

The king was also associated with several specific deities. While alive, a pharaoh was identified with Horus, and given the title “Son of Ra.” The goddesses Isis, Hathor, and Mut were all seen as the mother of the pharaoh. A deceased king was viewed as fully divine, and identified with Osiris (the father of Horus) and with Ra.

Jacob – God – (Decesed Pharoh, for which the island is “his temple”).

The Island – Ma’at – Among humans, Ma’at meant that all people and all classes of society lived in harmony. The Egyptians considered any disruption of Ma’at inherently harmful, so all people were expected to behave in accordance with it.

The temple – The entire journey from the temple entrance to the sanctuary was seen as a journey from the human world to the divine realm; thus, the sanctuary was the most sacred part of the temple, and contained a shrine with the image of the temple’s god (Jacob). Access to the sanctuary was usually restricted to the pharaoh and the highest-ranking priests (Christian and Richard).

I’m not sure how the losties/surviving DHARMA people fit into this.
I’m thinking they were on “the list” and they were spared their lives (book of light possibly).

So as you can see, IF this is going towards the Egyptian theme, these people are following in accordince with this ancient lifestyle and Heirarchy.

~ THE Pemstar Initiative ~

When Cassidy suggested to Kate off-island that Sawyer’s actions were that of a coward, I was kind of shocked. As, I think, was Kate. But the more I thought about it, and then when I saw James’s reaction when Kate called him out on his cowardice, the more I think it’s true.

It’s also true that Sawyer and Kate have both done a lot of growing up in the past three years, and that’s why — although I hate to say it — I think they will end up together.

Good episode. Kate is redeeming herself slowly but surely.

re: Richard – I always thought he was on the Black Rock and the original “hostiles” were all from the ship. He discovered the temple and it changed him and the crew.

Let’s start with what I didn’t like.

I really did not like the time travel conversation between Hurley and Miles. The time travel conversation in itself was humorous (I love Hurley), but it felt misplaced and unrealistic. It was stuck in there so we, as the audience, would “catch up” with the rules the writers want us to be aware of. It felt placed like a bit of instruction for us (now follow along students) and not something for us to expand our understanding of the overall plotline. Maybe I felt like they were talking down to us or something. Even worse than the time travel stuff was Alpert’s horrible line when he and the hostiles are taking Ben into the Temple. He’ll not remember everything and he’ll be forever changed. Really??? Sorry, but that was a crap way to write off the questions we’ve all been pondering for so long. I suspend my belief in reality every week when I watch this show and am usually rewarded with great story telling. That bit was not great storytelling. It was a cheap band-aid fix for a big hole in the story line and I’m feeling very let down by it.

*sigh*

Those gripes aside, there were some really great things going on in this episode. I’m not a huge Kate fan, but I’m not a Kate-hater either. I’m pretty neutral and I was pretty moved by the goodbye scene with Aaron in the hotel room. Wow. I’m a mom and I could absolutely feel how ripped apart Kate must’ve felt at that moment. Tremendous! I agree with Ryan’s comment that this is really the first time you get a glimpse into how deeply attached Kate has become to Aaron and how hard it must be for her to leave him.

I don’t know how I feel about Carole Littleton though, and I love how it keeps me second guessing the ideas I have. I thought the revelation of her new grandson was met with a lot less emotion that I would have expected. She seemed strangely out of the moment – yes probably a bit awe struck at the idea that Aaron is her grandson and that Claire may still be alive. I also thought the scene missed a lot of anger from her – if someone had told me my daughter was still alive and “left behind” after she “disappeared” on the island I think I’d be a raging lunatic for a moment. How could you do that???!!! Where is she???!!! What the…???!!! Or something. Carole’s reaction is just a little flat and unnatural in my mind. So for me, being the eternal mistrusting soul that I am, I think perhaps there’s a little something off with Claire’s mom. I don’t know if I believe she’s somehow connected in Ben/Charles net of baddies. I don’t necessarily think Aaron is in any harm, especially thinking that Claire’s visage in Kate’s dream told her NOT to take him back. I don’t know what I think. So I’ll have to keep pondering those issues.

Jack/Juliet – Kate/Sawyer – I definitely think they are trying to set us up for more intertwined relationship stuff. I definitely see how even if old romances aren’t rekindled how they may start to play off of perceptions of who was together when to make rifts in the relationships we have going. For me personally, I do not trust that Juliet is just along for the ride. So I don’t necessarily see her and Sawyer together in a forever kind of way. Don’t know if I necessarily mean to say that I want to see a rekindled Sawyer/Kate pairing – but I definitely think that Kate and Sawyer were happier together than Jack and Kate. I think Kate and Jack caused each other a lot of pain and I do not see either of them getting past that in any way. I think Sawyer tries to talk himself out of the Kate relationship a lot (like last night when he says that what he’s doing for Ben, he’s doing for Juliet – I don’t buy that). But what do I think about Sawyers happiness? I do think he is more content with Juliet. But is being content the same as being truly happy?

I have to agree with Jen – Jack is a frustrating character right now! Though I do see why he is acting the way he is. He has no identity anymore – he’s not the fixer, not the leader, not the upstanding guy that everyone looks up to. He found that aspect of himself again by crashing the first time on the island, but lost it completely after he left. The person he most depended on to believe in him does not believe in him or really like him much anymore (Kate). When the person who should have faith in him and depend on him most is himself. Maybe when he realizes that he’ll be less frustrating. I think he’s stuck with who he is and what he needs to do. He’d pretty much become his father before returning to the island, and he can’t be very happy about that.

I loved the end with Locke! That was great!!! Locke is my favorite character, so I’m excited to see where he will lead us!

I saw a consistency in Jack not wanting to save young Ben in the same way that he didn’t want to enter the numbers.

I loved the part where Hurley said, “I’m just waiting for my hand to disappear.”

Kate’s singing to Aaron was beautiful and it gave me chills. I have always liked Kate so I was looking forward to an episode like this one. I look back and think about how much she was seen spending time with Claire, and quite a lot even after she helped deliver Aaron. Knowing that Claire disappeared and that she couldn’t go back for her without missing the chance to leave on the helicopter has probably been one of the unsaid regrets for Kate as a character. Haunted by Claire’s brief appearance and her words would leave a lasting, nagging voice in her head to do only what is right for Aaron. It is completely logical that she would want the grandmother to take care of him until she can find Claire and bring her back for him and for Claire’s mother. Kate saying she lied because “she needed Aaron”, to me she needed him because she was without any solid family to call her own before she crashed on the island. She had no one to greet her when she returned. Having Aaron was a way to make a fresh start and feel a sense of responsibility towards someone other than herself upon returning. She also felt she owed it to Claire to take care of him.

I also loved the subtle hesitation in the way Kate answered, “No” when Roger Linus asked if she had kids.

The previews for next week, as usual, get my mind spinning. Without saying much, I can only predict we’ll see Smokey and Ben in a scene together.

to Chris: I’m sure by now her helping with Ethan’s birth has come out.
But what mystifies me is why such an operation doesn’t have better medical staff to begin with.

There were far too many snakes to swallow in this episode
How the hell can Kate have such a strong reaction on the dock and change (shift) her mind so diametrally a few hours later ?
Because she feels she would be a bad mother? Because of Cassidy ?
I am just not buying this
Then why would she (and Juliet) suddenly find it soooo important to save Ben ?
I also have a hard time believing Jack would not be tempted by the challenge to fix Ben
There is no manipulation this time…

By the way RA said that Ben «will forget this» not everything in his past
Hurley and Miles were really into it
Now I ask you
The others are taking only a few minutes to detect Kate & Sawier
One would think that they would have already detected Said escaping and acted to capture him
Why leave this part out ?

I loved that it was likely that Miles was trying to explain to Hurley what Daniel had evidently explained to him – but unlike physicist Daniel, didn’t have the ability to convey such a complex idea…. reminding us of the statement made by Daniel right before Sawyer slapped him: “To try to explain this to a quantum physicist would be hard….”

Jorge continued to represent us fans with Hurley’s dialogue, and that is part of why we love the actor and the character.

It’s becoming more and more clear that Richard has probably been on the island the longest, and understands the ‘natural workings’ of the island better than anyone. And his line – “I don’t report to them” – shows just what a powerful person he is. I think, however, where he is befuddled is regarding the man-made creations (e.g. donkey wheel and it’s time traveling properties, hydrogen bomb and what to do with it, immigrants to the island and how to deal with them and their plans). I am strongly hoping that eventually they show Richard’s backstory – actually, I think that will perhaps be near or at the series finale, when we can see the island’s time line in its entirety through Ageless Richard’s eyes. That would be amazing.

“In “He’s Our You,” Ben’s wound was on the left side of his chest, seemingly where his heart would be located. In this episode, however, his wound is on the right side of his chest.”

I think it was sort of cheat. In “He’s Our You,” Ben is clearly shot right through the heart, something you would expect from a crack shot like Sayid. But switching it this week to the right side, made it a wound that was survivable. I’m not sure it was a continuity error, I think the producers are messing with us.

Dude, I loved Hurley checking his hand to see if he was slowly fading away.

The personalities of most of the characters are morphing. Intended or not.

I don’t know why Sawyer is so scared of Dharma folks. They’re not what I envisioned at all; they’re just loudmouth nerds who would respect a good ass-kickin’ from Sayid, Sawyer and Jin.

The lighting on Locke’s face (next week’s teaser) was classic. How many episodes are left this season?

I’m not saying Kate didn’t experience some guilt and doubt about what she had done, but just consider how adamant she was about not going. With good reason I might add if you take a practical point of view. We didn’t see anything approaching the necessary magnitude to make her completely reverse herself in so short a time.

I’ll tell you what’s really underlying my frustration with this episode. This was almost the last chance to portray any significance Aaron might have had. Claire’s entire storyline the first couple of seasons was built into this larger than life thing about how “we would all pay the price” if Aaron were raised by another with the dire warnings from the psychic and such. Was that all just a dead end?

Note the almost: I still have count-to-five, Hurley hope.

Some people have said how much they hate Jack now, but it’s like he said…”you didn’t like me before as well”. I think his purpose is to reconcile with Christian Sheppard. Then maybe his story or his life will be fulfilled. I see his deep regret for not having satisfied his relationship with is father.

I loved the shout out to all the fans’ questions about time travel. I would have rather heard it from Faraday but Hurley was a great second!!!

If ever were Lost to jump the shark (i.e. Ezra James Sharkington) they quite possibly did with the explanation of why Ben doesn’t remember Sayid or anyone else from the Losties. If i could re-write any explanation on this show it would be that. I liked the idea that Ben did remember them and that would be the reason why Ben knew so much about the losties when they arrived on the island.

Disappointed…But, i love your show and keep up the great work. Next week looks like a very pivotal episode.

Here’s another thought. I know Sawyer sort of perpetuated a lie to get him and the other losties into the Dharma group but why didn’t they just defect to the “others” from the beginning? Seems more logical that they do, considering they had previous interactions with Richard in the past? Just seemed like that would have been a better way to go, but maybe it’s just me.

I liked this episode. I thought it was probably one of the better, if not best, Kate-centric episode we’ve seen, and I’m not a big Kate post-season-1 fan. Jack is so exasperating though. Did he ever stop to think that maybe he was supposed to go back in time to save Ben? Then maybe he wouldn’t have become the creepy other that we know? Jack does not seem to be putting his money where his mouth is when it comes to embracing his destiny.

YES Tom I thought that! (oh and Angela in MA- I see you just said that too!)

@Nate in Ohio: Yes yes yes- I too think we have yet to see that Charlie did not die in vein- I am hoping for a cool helicopter scene with Claire in it- Charlie dying was one of the most poignant and well shot scenes in television history- we must see that come full circle.

Looking forward to more inside the temple shots…

I also enjoyed Jack’s kinda pwning Kate during this episode.

OK just my .02$

thanks for a great podcast, yall…

Loved this episode – Hurley/Miles, Kate’s scenes w/Aaron were really sweet… Richard taking Ben into the temple…

Juliet got on my nerves, tho – WE didn’t need saving. what about the redshirts, Bernard, Rose..?… And if so, why are they combing grids to locate them when they DID return? Sawyer and Juliet seem a bit incapable of looking at the situation from the O6′s point of view.

and why doesn’t Jack say that

Loved your anniversary-glowing review of last night’s show. I concur. I have always been a Kate fan. I was thrilled when I bumped into Evangeline Lilly last Summer on my local boardwalk. She is just as gorgeous and effervescent in person. Even though Kate can indeed be a frustrating character, I relate to her passion and fortitude. She rarely holds back (or backs off). She “tries” so hard and her present growth is encouraging.

Sawyer, too, has grown in leaps and bounds in the last three years and he rightly credits Juliette. I liked that there is still a touching connection between Sawyer and Kate, if not a sexual one at the moment. Sawyer is finally starting to Beleive in himself. As he aptly stated he could no more be Kate’s “boyfriend” that Clementine’s father three to four years back.

In defense of Jack (who has always annoyed me with his controlling ways), he feels he must leave the island in charge and he is also disillusioned with pleasing Kate. The fact that he is (passively) waiting on the island to show him why he returned is not all bad.

As a mom, I understood Kate’s panic — I was there once or twice. It did seem odd that Kate felt more for Sawyer than was ever shown, and she did tell Jack that it has always been “him” — confusing! Sawyer looked really moved that his daughter looks like him — a touching moment.

The time-travel discussions were perfect, and Locke’s in-charge look priceless. Is Richard evil? Love watching the story unfold!!

What if that odd exchange between adult Ben and Kate in season 3 (the beachside brunch) was merely Ben saying thanks to Kate for “saving” him in 1977? She would obviously think he was crazy at the time since she would have no memory of it.

Also, it would seem that at least in 1977 the island does not seem to have the magical healing properties it does in the future, at least in 2004+ since Young Ben is dying rather than getting better.

That being said, I gotta say that I’m completely baffled by people’s frustration (i.e., hatred) towards Jack. Besides Locke, I think he’s the most fascinating character on the show; mainly for the reasons that others on this list seem to despise him for. His back and forth re: his actions/innactions as well as his honesty/coldness are what makes the character work for me in that I’m engaged in his story and what his overall purpose is. Why he does the things he does. In otherwords: he get’s a reaction (usually verbal) from the viewers in our house which leads me to believe that something is working with his character.

Pompous? Absolutely but that’s why his story is so egaging in that I, the viewer, want to see how he overcomes that attitude and accepts his fate with the island. And this episode was a big step towards that and how Jack’s finally coming to grips with the fact that the island has a purpose for him and is, in a way, dictating the events that transpire.

My two cents so go easy with the flamin’ should, as I expect, most of you disagree with me.

@ Keith – There are not 3 Bens roaming around.
Young Ben is in 1977.
Older Ben is in the present with the “316-ers”. Sun whacked Ben in the head and left him to paddle over to the main island with the pilot (I am blanking on his name!!). I am assuming one of the “316-ers” found him and thought he was injured from the plane crash and brought him to the make shift infirmary where Locke finds him.

And when are we going to finally meet the DeGroots?!!! Hopefully before “The Incident”….

PS: I love “The Transmission.” Been reading for years and this is my first comment. Thanks for your efforts!

I thought last night was another strong episode. Do we now assume that Claire is alive? I can’t imagine the writers setting us up with Kate’s promise to bring Claire home to be with Aaron without bringing it to fruition(probably sometime next season). Could this mean that Desmond’s vision (Claire getting on the helicopter), and thus the reason for Charlie’s sacrifice, will come true?

As far as Jack, part of me is disapointed he didn’t “fix” Ben. I wanted him to step in and save the day like he did back in Season 1. But I take his inaction as further stepping out in faith. He is trusting in the island to work it out, to heal Ben. I think there is no doubt that Jack will figure out what his destiny is as the season reaches its later stages. And when he does, he will become a man of action once again, this time with the strength and goodwill of the island on his side.

It would explain why babies always die. The souls are trying to take possession and the stress is too great for an infant. The Others take children, who might make better vessels.

Also, a future trapped soul might have the goal of getting his past self to the island so he can inhabit his own body again.

1. Locke to Ben “Welcome back to the land of the living.”

2. Hurley “So your theory is wrong!”

This has been a long story arch and I was stating to get Dharma fatigue, but now next week promises to be awesome. Namaste.

I agree with Abby waaay up in an above comment… Now how the hell does Ben end up back with Dharma to pull off the purge?

Why is it so obvious that the only way to save Ben is to give him to the Others? If whatever happened, happened, then wouldn’t Ben have lived no matter what…. even if they had just left him in Dharmaville? Jack suggests this, but Kate and Juliet are somehow convinced that Ben must be taken to the Others. Why? Is there something Juliet knows that we don’t? And why does Kate buy it?

Personally I would have liked it if the show went in a direction that it doesn’t seem to be going. I don’t like this fate and lack of free will stuff. I liked it when Sayid tried to alter the future and Jack questions the whole by idea by basically saying ‘if the future is already set, then why do we have any reason not to just sit around and see what happens?’

I liked someone’s post last week where they said that they thought the overall point of all this was to alter the Numbers (remember them? they’ve got to be substantial in a way that we will see soon)… that events in the past have to be modified to alter the Numbers, thus changing some fundamental reality that saves the universe… or something. I do still hold out hope for an outcome like this… because I think we’re going to find out that Farraday is up to something behind the scenes that is going to surprise us. I think that ‘whatever happened, happened’ will ultimately turn out not to be true.

Excellent writing job when Kate & Sawyer turn young Ben over to RA and realize that they are in fact the ones who cause Ben’s turn to the dark side.

Loved it, one of the better ones this season.

Does anyone think the man who told Richard to check with Charles looked a bit like Tom Friendly?

For those doubting the Kate leaving Aaron deal, I would say that it makes complete sense because she has always been haunted (by Claire mostly) of taking Aaron for herself. She wants closure, especially with what happened to Claire. If she has a chance to do that, why not take it? Obviously, its really hard, but do you think you could live with yourself if you knew you had a chance to get Aaron’s mom back but was too selfish to take it? I couldn’t. I understand why Kate did it.

Second, a BIG question I kept thinking was….Richard takes Ben into the temple. The other two guys that were part of Rousseau’s team also went into the temple. They all changed! “Lost their innocence”. So, here’s the question, did Juliet go into that temple, since she is a “Other” and if so, is she pretending? I’m not sure I still trust her.

I definitely thought it interesting that even though Richard told them that he (Ben) will lose his innocence and be “one of them”, they both decided to let him go anyway. Did they not believe him? Or was it just that they ultimately made the decision to save the “boy Ben” because they felt for him? I think its the latter.

Overall, this was probably one of the most powerful, thought provoking, and fun episodes yet!

I am in the “loved it” camp on the episode. I agree with Jen about EL/Kate. They could’ve renamed the episode “Kate’s redemption”

Thought the episode was not only well written but filmed well, with just the right lighting, angles and all that other film-eze lingo.

Loved Sawyer’s speech to Kate. Ironically she had also grown up during that time and that is what the episode revealed IMHO.

Juliette’s dressing down of Jack was perfect! Jack is just like is father – letting down the women in his life. Hopefully her confrontation will spur Jack to help his Sister and lead to his full redemption.

I love the shout out to the viewers through Miles and Hurley. Please, writers, please give us Miles motivations for staying.. and soon. The character is so untapped.

I can’t remember how much we saw of the murder/suicide of Sawyer’s mom but my crackpot theory is she was pregnant with Jacob and to take that crazy idea to the extremes – Christian is the father. >swirls finger @temple<

Can’t wait til Monday to hear your podcast and especially until next Wednesday to see what happened to Ben!

So she is responsible for the purge……since she acts on her own (the same way she accuses Jack of not acting) she “saves” ben and thus kills everyone else in the future.

of course, you can say “well if jack saved ben then all the rest wouldn’t happen” but then KAte has to be all “I’m going to act impulsively and do whatever I want” Just like she does when she gets caught by the others and countless other times.

and why? that was never explained. is it because Ben WILL KNOW where claire is in the future?

I’m just done with kate.

miles and Hurley conversation A+

The Boom scene : awesome.

1) Did I miss something, or are there now three Bens wandering around in this story – kid Ben in 1977, the Ben that Sun whacks w/ the oar, and the Ben who has been w/ the new crash survivors and is greeted by Locke at the end of this episode. Talk about a time travel paradox!

2) In an earlier episode, after Ben “kills” Locke (the first time), Locke later tells Ben that the reason he survived is because the bullet went straight through him, since he didn’t have a kidney. Maybe in a future episode, we’ll get to see Ben tell Sayid that he survived because he’s “heartless.” ;^)

As for Ben forgetting everything, I hope it is not just a convenient way for the writers to explain away everything. If Ben forgot everything, why did he carry around the dolls from Annie. I think he certainly remembers Annie so is it just the shooting that he forgets?

For a long time, I have thought Richard Alpert and many of the hostiles are dead so maybe Ben joins the land of the dead and it is Locke’s resurrection that brings him back into the land of the living. But then again, maybe it’s just a play on words referring to Locke being alive.

Finally, would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Jen admitted that Evangline Lilly was great. She was.

Happy anniversary!

one thing: it’s kind of difficult for the viewer when you don’t know who to cheer for, and i think that’s what we are running into with the jack/sawyer conflict over the past few episodes. we want to cheer for jack because we know he’s better than this, but we also really like what sawyer has evolved into and we don’t want to see him regress in any way. hopefully they tie up this part of the story sooner than later so that it does not drag out into something unenjoyable and hopefully both characters are able to thrive without one bringing the other down.

BTW- Happy Anniversary Jen & Ryan!

My wife and I have not missed and episode of LOST since it aired. This show continues to amaze me in its creativitiy and wonderment. Watching it on TV week to week, versus DVD has driven us to the brink on trying to wrap our brains around every nuance and every hint dropped. We pray that the creators of this show had the guts to create a story from the beginning that weaves together this tapestry we are all so emmotionally and intellectually engaged with. It must end with a cohesive and meaningful ending that will not disapoint or I will feel so empty.

Don’t you feel like you are there when you watch this show?

This season more than any other is about redemption. Last season we saw what the consequences of ones action or inaction lead to when the Widmore boat arrived and the “Rules” were changed. This season everyone’s return to the island is their life reset button. Let’s review…

Sawyer was a con man who finds himself and becomes a law man, a family man and a true man.

Juliet was done with the Others and wanted to leave the island and now she can’t imagine life away from Dharmaville and her happy life with Sawyer.

Jin only wanted to save his baby and his love Sun. He sacrifices himself time and again to a woman that has lied and cheated on him and made him the bad man he would be forced to become in Korea. Now he waits to be saved by Sun and who knows if he will ever see his baby… lets hope.

Miles comes to the island for money as far as we know. Lets hope he finds who he is and redeems himself with some selfless acts.

Daniel decieves and spins webs to begin with. He is mysterious and confusing. He has shown us he is brilliant and he will show us that he is a brave man who I think will redeem himself to the Island to save it and the inhabitants from the Incident.

Sayid is a killer! Sayid wll be judged as well and I hope that it is righteous as he is truly good in my eyes and the Island owes him!

Sun who has been portrayed as the victim of many circumstances is done with that. Sun will scare us with her force and a few more paddles to the head to get back to her man.

Jack tried fixing people and being a man of logic and science! Now we see Jack finding that faith is just as important to blance out ones life. The question is whether love will triump over science and faith. Please put him with Kate as a matter of destiny!

Kate was a selfish brat, who only lived life her way. She made many mistakes, but has not only made the most selfless act on the planet…being a parent. She has given up the child to venture into the unknown to find his mother and reunite them once and for all. That scene made me cry!

Hurley ran away from himself and did not love or embrace who he is. Always down on the life he was given, even when he became a millionaire. Now on the return to the island he is taking the control back. We are going to see a much stronger Hurley going forward and we will be surprised by the reason for that guitar case he has.

Locke was the most unlucky guy in the world. A beaten man who we have seen flip flop and flounder even when we thought we knew where he was headed. Now we will see that the resurected Locke has a focus that will not be derailed and we will see him realize his one true destiny… being the man we all love him as on the Island… humananites best and worst personified.

Ben is the bad guy we love to hate and for so many reasons. But now we have seen that his innocents was taking from him by life and the Island and its mystical ways. Let’s hope he is judged fairly! You know Ben is Darth Vader right… there is good in him… I sense it.

Desmond had no purpose and no self worth. The Isalnd gave him purpose and gave him worth by being lost to Penny and by pushing that damned button. Desmond will come to peace with the fact that he is uniquely special and I hope we find out why or what that means he can do. Let’s hope he unleashes some butt kicking on the Others and Widmore.

Richard and Jacob are my biggest question marks next to Smokey. We are so close to knowing what or who they are it is making me ill with anticipation.

Widmore and Ellie are evil period! Don’t trust white haired old British guys or ladies… they are always shaddy! Are Penny and Daniel brother and sister?

Benard and Rose – They are just cool people who deserve to get off the island cancer free. Atleast have them get a time share on Hydra island or something for their trouble.

Ok so the point of all this analysis has been for me to get out of my system all of the thoughts and feelings this show has brought to me. Joy, pain confusion and wonderment all in one. Isn’t it great to be alive!

One final thought is that if this show introduces aliens, vampires, pergatory or ghosts as a basis for the shows rationale I will be seriously disapointed. Since I know that won’t happen I will wait with you other LOST fans with baited breath to see how this whole thing gets explained. Can you hear the ticking sound…tick,tick,tick,tick no it isn’t a clock! It is the roller coster car heading for the season finale high speed drop. Get ready people!

Cheers!

Welshie

I did really enjoy the exchange between Hurley and Miles. Goes to show that the writers are definitely thinking ahead and know the questions and the possible paradoxes that they’ve painted themselves into, which means they’ve got a plan to get themselves out. They certainly are toying with us but it was fun. Good to see Miles getting more screen time and giving us some Faraday-esque moments.

So, Ben has been re-born, so to speak by whatever is in that temple. Could definitely explain a lot, especially his turn away from innocence as a child.

Jack certainly is a different character now, especially making the decision to not save Ben. Seems they are backing off him for now, perhaps waiting for him to jump into the mix when all hell breaks loose?

I just didn’t buy the whole Kate motivation for going back to the island – to save Claire? Of course, Kate has now told two people that they lied so could that mean that the story is going to get out and more than just Widmore will be looking for the island for survivors too? I’m sure Mrs. Littleton isn’t just going to be satisfied taking care of her grandson when Kate tells her that Claire is still alive on the island, right? And Cassidy is probably going to still want Sawyer to meet his daughter so she could also be looking for the island as well in the future.

I thought this was an awesome episode!

I was actually looking forward to hearing Kates side of the story, pre- “316″. This story flowed really well, with the off island Cassiday, Sawyer story now added with Kates “road” to redemption plot. I went into this episode not knowing what to think if Kate. This episode was make or break my thoughts on Kate, and the ending had me a little emotional, and her reasons are justified, so therefore in my eyes, she has for the moment redeemed herself.

I haven’t given up on Kate yet..

I was glad to see the temple again!

It looks like we see Charles and Ellie in 1977 soon!

With the preview for next week, they are gearing things up for the finale! One more story arc of 3 more episodes, then I hope they close out this season with a bang with the last 3 episodes!

I think early scenes we have seen this season will be important!

Where are Farday and Desmond!?..

The return of Locke..even if it is for the last final seconds of the cliffhanger!

can’t wait for next weeks episode!

I thought this was a great episode. I admit that I am a Kate fan, and I really feel for her sacrifice. I also cheered when she said she’s going back for Claire. I think this was in part because I was so so so so annoyed with Jack for NOT saying “I’m here to find my sister” when Juliet confronted him. But kudos for confronting him in the shower.

Kate + Roger = me completely grossed out

I love Hurley and Miles. Awesome.

I agree with everything Carol says in her above post. When Kate tells Claire’s mom she left Aaron alone in the motel room, I was ready to call CPS.

Seems like a cop-out for Ben not to remember anything. But he’s got to remember *some* things. I’m curious as to what exactly he’ll end up forgetting. And I’m bummed about this, because I’m just about to start my S2 Henry Gale rewatch, and I really wanted to believe Ben remembered all of the Losties from his childhood. So, if he doesn’t remember them anymore, will someone clue him in later?

Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on this one!

After 316, the comments were full of questions as to Kate’s motivations for returning to the island and the whereabouts of Aaron…we all agreed that the O6 had more of a story yet to be told. Last week, we learned more of Sayid’s journey…this week it was Kate’s turn.

Needless to say, I was a big fan of this episode, and found it to be one of the most enjoyable of the season to watch, start to finish. I love the flashback method of story telling that provided us with insight into Kate’s motivation for leaving Aaron behind as well as for saving you Benjamin Linus, much in the way that Sayid’s character was given the motivation for shooting Ben within the framework of his flashbacks with Ben.

The Back to the Future reference by Hurley was hilarious, and I found it brilliant of the writers to use Hugo and Miles to lay out the rules of time travel as they’re constituted on the island.

I’m also become less uneasy that we’re just spinning our wheels in 1977 Dharmaville as the series creeps closer and closer to its final season. I think the writers are inasmuch telling us to relax with comments from Sayid last week that, “when I woke up in the jungle and realized I was back on this island I asked myself what for…now I know what I’m here for,” and Jack admitting to Juliette this week that he came back to the island becuase he was supposed to, but he doesn’t know YET what he’s supposed to do.

As to the more specific points to not buying Kate’s motivations, I’d disagree with the assertation that her story wasn’t believable. The arc of her story within this episode took place over the span of three years, during which time she grew as an individual and as a mother, and by the end was being haunted by the fact that she knew she Aaron didn’t truly belong to her. What we saw of her relationship with Cassidy was just the tip of the iceberg, and while their first meeting was predictably icy, by the end they had grown close enough that Clementine called Kate “Aunt.” The notion that the characters on this program don’t ever change has been discussed recently by Jen in the podcast, but I felt it was dispelled in this episode, not only by telling Kate’s story, but also in the conversations Kate had in 1977 with both Jack and Sawyer.

I loved Hurley in this episode, I feel like he was saying everything that has been in my brain for weeks. Looking at his hand to see if it was disappearing cracked me up. The Lost producers reference it not being “back to the future” all the time so I thought that was a wonderfult tie in to that.

re: Kate, I always thought she loved Jack more than Sawyer so that threw me a bit. I was upset that professing all that love for Aaron, she just leaves him in a hotel room, (nobody present in it but him) to wake up to a total stranger taking care of him. Has she ever heard of transitioning? An introduction and some comforting would have been nice. I guess as a mother, this scene really bothered me. To expect a 3 year old to just adjust to a stranger on command is unrealistic and seeing how she spent the night with Jack, I think she had the time to make it easier for Aaron and Claire’s mom.

Re: Jack being open to the moment, well what if Ben’s being shot was “his” moment and he blew it. I can see his reasoning about Ben living but I thought it was very cold.

I did love the ending with Richard and the Temple. I can’t wait to see next week. Ben facing his “judgement” it must be Smokey!

I liked that Kate came back for Claire…because she loves her son so much she wants to find his mom and be honest and not feel like she is always running and at risk of losing him- it set her up tonight to be the one “who did the right thing” by saving baby Ben…just like last week when all the killing and sinister interactions with Ben set Sayid up to put a bullet through his 12 year old belly. We saw why Kate would be motivated to help this child just like how we saw Sayid’s motivation last week.

Also great shot of how surprised Ben Looked at seeing Locke alive- perhaps that puts the proverbial bullet hole through our theories that Ben HAD to kill Locke so he could be resurrected…Ben didn’t seem too happy about that.

Any guesses as to who is on the pier heading towards the Sub in the “Scenes from next week?”

Oh and Happy Anniversary- I hope you are doing something fun…watching Lost?

I really like that they spread a character-centric story over a piece of the mythology, then set up the next plotpiece in the closing scene, it links the eps together nicely while moving the plot along without neglecting the characters.

This episode seemed to me to be a lot like the one when they showed that Christian was Claire’s father. Hardcore fans (like us) knew it was coming but my friends who watch the show and then forget about it for a week were all shocked both times… the reveal was obvious, but it was necessary

I don’t entirely understand the Ben forgetting everything part of this episode… he was still a member of Dharma when the Purge happened? Does the whole DI just pretend that this never happened?

The 1977 story was interesting to me because of the evolution of Jack’s character. In one way he’s moved to Locke’s way of thinking. He believes the island has a purpose for him and is willing to wait to see what that is. At the same time, he’s still Jack. The easy thing for him to do would be to do what everyone expects him to do and save the kid. Letting Ben die shows Jack taking action (through inaction) in a way that’s different but not entirely new for him.

The Kate back story wasn’t Earth shattering but I liked the way they filled in the gap more than other commenters. I think Kate’s reaction to losing Aaron is understandable given what we know about her character. Some part of her was uncomfortable with the way she cane to be Aaron’s “mother.” Then things got hard with Ben, the Lawyers, and then losing Aaron at the store. So she ran. It’s what Kate does and not unbelievable at all to me.

Part of the problem with the show starting to wind down and tying up loose ends is that the story becomes somewhat predictable. That’s compounded by the fact that many of us spend hours and hours each week rehashing and debating the show. As result of that, Kate giving Aaron to Ma Littleton isn’t shocking and to a certain extent it shouldn’t be. It means the show is following what is logical and realistic based on the reality they’ve created.

After very incremental building of the story through the Kate back story and the majority of the 1977 story, I thought there was a great payoff at the end. Bringing Young Ben to Alpert was a good start. Then Alpert’s statement that Ben will lose his innocence, bringing Ben to the temple, and saying that Ben will always be one of them sets up a lot of great additions to the shows mythology in the future. The lost innocence statement is a nod back to the idea of the island being the Garden of Eden, but the idea that Alpert and Co. are somehow evil is new. The statement about Ben always being one of them also creates a lot of questions. He won’t be ageless like them. Is he just now an Other or is there more to it than that? In any case, the ending gave us a lot to debate over the next week, which is what makes this show great.

The only 2 redeeming parts of tonight’s show:

1. Sawyer showing his loyalty to Juliet.

2. The “oh crap” look on Sawyer’s and Kate’s faces when they realized they were the ones who morphed little Ben into Big Bad Bastard Ben.

April Fool’s Day, huh?

Aloha, brother.

I was a little surprised at Ben’s reaction to seeing Locke alive and then realized that he must have killed Locke to produce a proxy for Christian Shepard. Of course, he didn’t realize Locke would somehow be resurrected on the island. I guess Ben doesn’t know everything. I’m not yet convinced he’s the total bad guy everyone else thinks he is.

And I’m going to take out a contract with Smokey on the first person who suggests that Jacob is Kate and Roger workman’s baby…

Lastly, I thought it was a bit convenient that Ben would forget everything once he went into the Temple. Hence he wouldn’t remember the Losties he met in the past. Still, it is an explanation.

Why does Ben have to remember Sawyer and Juliet? At least well enough top cause problems later? Sawyer was under a different name and he never really hung out with him. It’s been mentioned that he finds Juliet familiar when she comes to the island later. I guess whatever Richard’s doing to him could make everything before getting shot a bit blurry. Don’t know if they’ll all be there when young Ben comes back.

So in that brief whisper on the helicopter, Sawyer told Kate who to look for and where they were? Riiiiiiight.

A slow episode, because it just basically confirmed what we all suspected Kate did off the island – going to Cassidy & Clementine and giving Aaron to Claire’s mom.

Can I just say, I was hoping to see Daniel this episode. Loved Miles stepping into the role of trying to explain the whole timeline/time travel stuff.

John- ben may be reborn on the island but remember he told locke he was lying when he said he was born on the island so he has to remember pre this shooting inorder to remember that he wasnt born on the island right?

1. I just love it when the writers of Lost explicitly address some of the issues the fans have been discussing everywhere; and they always do it in a rather humorous way. Tonight, they tried to explain to us the time traveling issues that have our brains tangled. As Matt from Ohio already mentioned, it is a way for us to understand this is not about an alternate reality. And I found it pretty smart when Hurley asked in other words something like: “So, how come Ben did not recognize Sayid when Oceanic 815 crashed as the guy who shot him when he was 12 years old” And then Miles answered: “I don’t know”. But even much better, the episode gave us the answer when Richard Alpert accepts to take Ben with him.

2. Speaking of R.A. and The Others… I called it first last week when I wrote in response to the postcast: “How will he [12-year old Ben] survive? It is possible that Jack and/or Juliet save his life; but it will be more interesting if he is saved by Richard Alpert and The Others. Or maybe he really is dead, and the Ben Linus we have come to love to hate is somehtin else other than human, save by the Smoke monster.”

3. An answer to Glenn – Just curious: Ben was not taken to the Black Rock [which is a ship]; he was taken to a major structure connected to the island’s past and to the Other’s history: The Temple, a place that’s been mentioned in the show many times, but we’ve never really seen (but from the previous for next week’s episode, we will get to finally explore).

4. To Rich in Cleveland: I respectuflly disagree with you. I found the story believable and in sync with the rest of the show. I found the episode anjoyable and the plot plausible. Even more, the last scene in which we see Kate and Aaron together, Evangeline’s performance was very good [And I already know some of the regular posters here will disagree with me for this, because you all dislike both the character of Kate and the actor Evangelina Lilly).

Later.

I don’t get Kate’s motivation at all. She came back to the island for….Claire??? Aaron got lost for two seconds in a supermarket and that makes her feel vulnerable enough to abandon her well-established life for a quest she doesn’t even believe in? They didn’t even play up her “running away” trait which would have at least been plausible. Her resistance to returning was dramatized so heavily that we were led to believe that something really must have rocked Kate’s world to convince her to go along and this episode just didn’t deliver.

Another thought, LOVED Hurley/Miles this week. They were basically having the same conversation all the fans have been having all year, and I do think this was the writers way of telling us that there are no alternate realities, it just is what it is.

Lastly, Richard saying that he doesn’t really answer the Eli or Widmore was profound to say the least. What it really means is, Richard is and always will be the true leader of the Others. It might be similar to the Mafia, as depicted in Sopranos. Often in the Italian Mafia the real leader is made to look like a second or 3rd in command, while the “leader” is merely made to believe that they are more important.

My thoughts.

The loved the Q and A with Hurley and Miles. Hurley seems to be asking the same questions that the viewers are asking and he is just as confused as we are.

Kate is singing catch a falling star to Aaron. Claire asked the couple who wanted to adopt Aaron to sing that song to him because her dad used to sing her that song. Creepy.

Jack is the worst doctor ever! Didn’t he take an oath as a doctor to help people? He was just okay with letting Little Ben die, and had no remorse or anything.

We finally get to see some of the others and the scene with Richard Alpert as he takes Ben into the temple was awesome.

Sawyer calls Kate freckles, but admits that he was running from Kate after she tells him Cassidy’s theory about his jumping out of the helicopter. Isn’t Kate the one who runs from people? I think that Sawyer still loves her, but I believe that he loves Juliet more and will stay with her.

Juliet is so sneaky and I do not trust her. She knows a lot about the others, but the question is did she tell Sawyer about her time as an other and their secrets.

What did Richard Alpert mean by lose his innocence?

“Shoot Me.” Miles

What really did we learn? Ben was shot and Jack refused to help him. That’s not at all unexpected. So…Kate (and Sawyer) decide to help him and take him to the Others.

The last 5 minutes were the only really interesting part of the whole episode. What exactly happens in The Temple to save Ben and make him the evil man we know (and love)? That’s really the big question here. What happens to the people that “the island” saves from death?

I did get a much better opinion of Roger Linus in this episode. He knows that he’s been a bad father but he still loves his son. We all have to wonder now why Ben feels the need to kill him some years later. Clearly it’s Ben who has gone over to the dark side.

Jack continues to look like a real jerk. At least Kate has shown some redemption upon her return to the island. I’m glad to see that Sawyer still seems loyal to Juliet, though.

The episode just seemed to little at such a late date for me.

Then there was the poetic futility of Sayid and Jack’s actions. In shooting Ben/refusing to save him, they thought they were preventing future-Ben. Instead, they were creating him.

Happy anniversary Ryan and Jen!

Another great epi! So wanted the paradox, tho!

Oh and a very Happy anniversary to the two of you.

Re-incarnation, I take it he cannot die again. Didn’t Ben say to Widmore, something to the effect of “You know I can’t kill you”? – I’m just babling, but I think keeping the dead bodies is key to creating life for others…we’ll see.

Second, great episode. The look on Ben’s face when he wakes up to see John is priceless. Lots of questions answered, IMO. Too bad Ben’s memory will be wiped though, it would have been great if he really did recognize Sayid back in season 2 when he went in to torture him.

And Richards reply to the concern about Charles and Ellie (presumably leaders?) “I don’t answer to them”. Haha.

Next week looks great too, seems like we get to see what happened between Ben and Penny/Desmond.