“Things begin to unravel when one of the survivors goes rogue and takes matters into their own hands — risking the lives of everyone on the island.” We probably won’t be able to blog our thoughts on tonight’s episode, so you’ll have to wait for the podcast for our take. But we’re very interested in your thoughts and theories. Please post your comments below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LostLine and leave a voicemail comment at (808) 356-0127.
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Meta
sorry for the “?” after “him”, wasn’t intentional.
Really great ideas everyone! I love the analysis and the theories, makes me look at the story in many different ways.
Here are my thoughts after watching He’s Our You…
Amy – I agree with Nels, she is definitely suspicious! I said last week that I thought she was a hostile sympathizer and now I’m sure about it from watching her reaction to “the vote” this week. She does not recognize Sayid as a hostile and if she was able to talk or get any info from a hostile source who could confirm that he was definitely NOT from their camp then she would be very freaked out by his presence and definitely want him out of the way. Afterall, she needs to protect her own secret identity (and now also protect her new baby). I’m also thinking that Horace is a hostile sympathizer too. Don’t know if he was originally an infiltrator, or if he becomes sympathetic due to his love for Amy. If you can re-watch the vote scene and think of that scene from the perspective of Horace and Amy as hostile-oriented people and see if you don’t agree!
Ben/Sayid — I think Ben *knew* he needed to be shot by Sayid outside of Dharmaville so that he would be found and saved by the hostile camp. This was the thing that allows him to officially move into hostile territory. That is why Ben worked so hard to get Sayid to come back.
Ethan — I think he also knows he has to recruit Juliet later in life because she is the only reason he is alive. He knows it is Juliet who is responsible for his being born and his mom Amy not dying during childbirth.
Ben – *if* Ben is dead due to Sayid’s shooting, maybe this is what makes ’07 Ben unconscious on the cot after the Aijira plane crash – not the oar to the head. Maybe he can not be conscious in current time if his younger self is not alive. Don’t know if I altogether buy that theory, but I felt I had to shout it out!
Can’t wait for the podcast! Keep those great theories flying!
Tammy
Screencap of vote to get rid of Sayid, note that the man on the left is the one behind the camera in the season’s first episode with Chang. It was not Sawyer as some people suspected.
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/63b6a635bb91651b6bce3d833f7d2e6a
For a good insight into next weeks episode go to abc.com to view the summary of next weeks episode. Interesting reading, I don’t want to give any spoilers out so go to the site for a hint on what is to come next week.
Russell in Raleigh-Hilarious suggestion ;O) I wonder how many people here remember where that reference comes from? I am pushing 50 so I have to admit to being a fan of the Newhart show when it originally aired. Again, very funny!
Ok, I rewatched He’s Our You and I rescind my Horace theory (above). He’s definitely not a hostile sympathizer. Don’t know why I had that impression – still feel that Amy is though 🙂
@Adriano-If there is no Dharma bus for Hurley to find, how can he rescue Jin, Sayid and Bernard when the Others invade their beach camp? Of course, if their situation has changed and the Purge never happens, he won’t need the bus…right?….ouch
I think one of Kate’s reasons for coming back to the Island is to tell Sawyer about his daughter. I found it strange, considering it was the last thing he said to her (we assume) before bailing out of the helicopter, that he never asked Kate about Clementine during their awkward little encounter at the motor pool shed, nor did Kate offer him any info.
What do you think of the idea that the young woman in the military clothes with the gun on Daniel F. a few shows back was his mom Eloise Hawking. He made a comment to her when he was looking at her saying something about her looking familiar. I heard someone say her name was Ellie. I think Eloise also made a comment back at the Lampost about the Military knowing about the Island. Could she be part of a military project? Could She have been on the island at one time? Could Daniel’s dad be Widmore?
I still think Jack would be curious as to why Locke was insisting that everyone would die if they didn’t go back to the island.
Wow. I loved this week’s episode just as much as I hated last week’s. I feel like LOST is back on track and has a direction again. Some of the callers/commenters last week stated their confusion with the castaways’ lack of direction better than I did, but this week, I feel like that’s been resolved. I’m looking forward to several more weeks of finding out why Hurley, Kate, Sun, and even Ben returned to the island. I’m also betting that the title of next week’s episode will explain why killing 12-year-old Ben didn’t fix anything, and I’m betting Faraday makes an appearance to help explain it. Nice try, though, Sayid.
Hey Ryan and Jen!
I thought for the heck of it I’d click on a random past episode blog post and read the comments just to see how things have changed. I happened to click on Stranger in a Strange Land and my first observation is — wow! — the blog comment quality is so much better now and the dialogue between fans so much richer.
The other comment I have is maybe we understand Jack’s tattoo better now: “He walks among us but is not one of us.” Hmm, definitely makes more sense now considering his time travel back to 1977 Dharma times!
Kaysea, It’s already been revealed that that was indeed Eloise Hawking.
Lydia from MA-Very interesting about Jack’s tattoo. There are so many little mysteries, details and nuances to Lost that it is way too hard to remember them all.
Connie
Maybe Lafleur was just about to ask Kate about Clementine
They were interrupted by the van on fire
I still believe that the Ben that will be involved in the purge is the older Ben coming back in time
History has shown that poeple can come back to before they were born (Locke)
If we ever see the injured Ben in 2007 recuperate, we can bet that he will go into this journey back in time
Now that he is dead in 1977, he can go back to sometime past that point in time
But on the other hand, all of you who think that he will be cured by Jack have a great hunch too
wow – I just watched “the Lie” enhanced episode… hurley’s dad’s name is DAVE reyes…. is that why hurley hallucinated about a guy named dave?
So Sayid shoots ‘Lil Ben…but wouldn’t you know it…there’s a surgeon on the island…hmmm.
Ben is not dead. He’s just really ticked off now.
Thanks Camille I didnt know that. What episode was it on? Ive watched them all but I guess I blinked. LOL
When Ben went to see Widmore did he say that he would kill “Penny” or his “daughter”?
@ Kaysea: Ben specifically said “Penelope.”
As I thought about “he walks among us…”, there was another great instance of the recurring theme of alienation/otherness in Sayid’s flashback. The elder brother must remain “outside” of the community and his father’s affections until he can accomplish his rite of passage, just as Locke remained on the outside until he proved he could rid himself of that most potent symbol of past failures, his father. I wonder if it matters that Locke cheated a bit by having Sawyer do his dirty work for him.
One other comment: young Ben knocked it out of the park this episode. No matter how you feel toward Ben, you had to feel tremendous sympathy for him throughout and especially when Sayid shot him for theoretical crimes which he has yet to commit. I’ll bet he vowed to never be the one caught by surprise from that moment on.
Defend the island.
rewatching the episode, more thoughts/questions came up:
– Why didn’t Ilana just arrest Sayeed when she saw him? Di she really just want a free meal?
– I am on the side of people who don’t trust Amy and I think Ethan joined the hostiles with his mother. She knew Sayeed wasn’t a Hostile but the longer they kept him alive the more likely he could pose a threat to the Hostiles by sharing secrets of the island with unknowing Dharmites.
-How did Sayeed know he would get a chance to kill Ben?
-Where does Sayeed think he’s gonna go now that he’s escaped.
-Has anyone mentioned Ms. Hawking or anything to the non O6-ies?
-Juliet’s smile makes me mistrust her, I think it is just the character though…
-Why aren’t any of the Dharmalites particularly peace-loving? I thought they were supposed to be hippies…
-At what point did Ben go from needing glasses all the time to only needing them to read?
Kaysea, I know this outside the program but in enhanced episodes it says her name is Eloise Hawking, but show-wise we can assume she is the same Ellie since:
-Widmore knows her well, since he has her information at the ready to give it to Desmond in “Jughead”
– Daniel recognizes her as someone familiar in “Jughead”, and Eloise is his mother (as well as his former lab rat)
– In “316”, when they are in Eloise’s underground pendulum lair there is a photo marked “9/23/54 – U.S. Army – OP 264- Top Secret – Eyes Only”(this corresponds with the same time that Ellie was on the island)
I just don’t think names get repeated like that on this show for no reason. I think one of the rare instances where a name was repeated without any real significance was with the name Charlotte. The first Charlotte we met was when Eko was in Australia (episode “?”, season 2) and he went to investigate a suspicious religious occurrence (a girl named Charlotte — daughter of Claire’s psychic –drowned to death and then came back to life). In Season 4, we then get (our now dear departed ) Charlotte Staples Lewis.
I’ve really been wanted to talk about this episode but have been flat-on-my-back sick. Now that I’m sitting up, a few thoughts:
Ben is absolutely not dead. This incident (Ben not dying) will prove once and for all that “Whatever Happened Happened” and it cannot be changed. I do think this sets up a self-contained cycle; as Nate in Ohio succinctly describes it: “Sayid shoots Ben, which causes him to turn evil and torture the losties and manipulate Sayid into killing Widmore’s associates, which causes Sayid to want to kill little Ben.” I don’t consider this a paradox, though — merely a loop that we will undoubtedly see a lot more of. This seems to me to be within the “rules”.
I think the reason Sayid is so out-of-his-mind angry at Ben is that he found out (as many of us suspected) that Ben was responsible for Nadia’s death, and then used that death to lead Sayid on a world-wide killing spree.
And of course, to answer some of the questions around here, Ben totally recognized Sayid when he saw him in Season 2. He probably expected the plane crash, and knew those people he’d seen before. He may have had a crush on Juliet before.
I just wanted to remind everyone that Rose and Bernard went missing for almost all of Season 3 too. It didn’t matter as much then because they weren’t in 1977, but it was still a long absence.
They’ll come back when they have something to add to the story, or when they’re needed. I’m sure the writers haven’t forgotten them.
My theory (and thanks to Jen and Ryan for the pods and forum) – Juliet has twins (Sawyer’s) who are Daniel and Penny (this is what Daniel meant when he said “I’m not going to tell her”). They are kidnapped by Ellie (Hawking) (and maybe Widmore, who were a couple in the 1950’s). Ellie and Charles are tired of being child-free on the island (probably due to the radiation from the bomb). When they (have to) leave the Island (which explains their current ages, since they were 20 something in 1954—they didn’t age on the Island—otherwise Widmore is too old to have a daughter Penny’s age).
Kind of a weird symmetry, since Penny would be as much Widmore’s daughter (not) as Alex was Ben’s….Somewhere Widmore and Hawking split, Widmore got Penny and Eloise got Daniel, but Widmore must have been paying support (as evidenced by his paying for the care of the women who went crazy during the time research). Note we’ve never seen/heard of Daniel’s father or Penny’s mother…
Sawyer will be so bummed to find out his future son is dweebish.
Laura I agree with your theory. Daniel described time as traveling on a string, you can go back and forth on the string, but you can’t create a new string. Ben cannot die, that would create a new string. Too many things would change.
Re: Kate’s reason for going back, could it be as simple as Ben does get cusody of Aaron and makes Kate go back to the island in order for her to get him back?
Hi Guys, long time listener, first time blogger.
Well that has put a hole in your paradox theory hasn’t it? Young Ben said that he wanted to join the hostiles so I think that he gets found by them, is somehow ‘mended’ and then begins his Others -v- Dharma life.
That would work perfectly for him killing his own father in the van also.
I can’t believe how many things are tying back to series 1,2,3&4 with the runway, 4 toe’d statue.
I think they will redeam Kate a little by revealing that her reason to return to the island is to find Claire and bring her back to raise Aaron.
Here are some of my favorite comments from the other forum.
“Why is Kate back? Here’s my bet. Because Ben came to her off island, and explained that she had to get involved, because she needed to be on the island or something very bad would happen (possibly to Aaron). Perhaps he straight out tells her “you need to go back and make sure I don’t die” —Aaron.
This is certainly along the lines of what I’m hoping for, something closer to the central mythology than mere blackmail or, even worse, a base appeal to toy around with the paralovagram. Kudos to whoever authored that term though.
“This is making me feel more strongly about my theory that the universe is trying to recreate a series of events that happened (or will happen.. the ‘incident?’) that dislodged the island from normal time/space…” —Pete
I like to call this “the master scene” that all the repetitions of situations and language that regularly occur reflect in broken fragments, but that will one day come together to some unknown effect. I think it may reveal the truth more than cause an “incident” to happen.
“Anyone mention that Sayid might have still been under the influence of the mind altering drug when he shot Ben?”—Keith UK
Side effects? I’ll have to review, but it does seem now that the interrogation scene might have been Sayid’s moment of crisis in which he determines his purpose and course of action. For some reason though, I think he may soon be receiving visitors as a consequence instead.
“All of this talk about Ben having these experiences and knowing who’ll be going back in time and working towards that goal leaves out a very important element. How DOES Ben know what to do? Growing up knowing a certain man shot you in your youth and then meeting him when you grow up doesn’t tell you how to get that guy to go back in time and shoot you.—Michael 281
Definitely. Future Ben would have had to have visited present Ben or he would have had to cycle through this loop many times while retaining his memory.
On retaining memory: Faraday’s card trick still bothers me. I’m holding to the theory that the present is in a state of flux. Was he trying to recall a past or a properly ordered reality with this test? The cards keep changing just as the picture on the box kept changing. We saw Faraday disturbed when he saw the news footage of 815 as if somewhere in his brain he had a memory of what happened. We also have the “Charlotte rule” whereby memories of the past that have not yet been created by the flashers can still be recalled. So is this what’s going on with the card trick? The other possibility is the study of parapsychology referenced in one of the DI orientation videos.
“At first I thought young Ben was shot dead. Then I remembered it wasn’t raining.”—Steve. Good call.
i heard someone else say that they think you can change things in the past but your destiny is your destiny (like how charlie “cheated death” for a while, but then desmond told him it was inevitable). i don’t think that sayeed was necessarily ALWAYS the guy that shot ben.
Although the idea of Ben being saved is attractive,
I will stick to my initial thought that young Ben will be dead
I believe that it will be older Ben who will be coming back in time
and plan the purge
Now that young Ben would be dead
older Ben can now come back to earlier time
The older Ben would become sort of an ageless Richard
popping in time when needed
was that ben and annie with their backs to the camera in the vote scene?
“Although the idea of Ben being saved is attractive,
I will stick to my initial thought that young Ben will be dead
I believe that it will be older Ben who will be coming back in time
and plan the purge
Now that young Ben would be dead
older Ben can now come back to earlier time”
No. If Ben dies as a child, he does not live to do all those things. Ben cannot and will not die at this point.
Ben is not dead, we know this. Don’t OVERthink everything.
And keep in mind we are dealing with things occurring and happening in present time and past tense. HOWEVER, until something happens to someone in the past the future version does not know about these events.
For example Desmond did not know about finding Daniels mother, until Daniel told Desmond to go look for his mother, then at that IMMEDIATE moment the memory was created and then guess what Desmond awakes with a memory!
Therefore, until Sayid shot Ben, Ben had no recollection of it, now going forward I am sure Ben will know what happened to him in the past.
If Jack stays true to character he is not going to HELP Ben, so I believe Juliet may be the one to save him and that is where the “you look so much like her” comment comes in.
REMEMBER they were told EVERYONE needed to come back for everything to return to normal or something would happen which was unknown. That includes Walt and Aaron. So, All of them not returning created this unknown situation that is currently evolving.
Also, did anyone think Sayid may dislike Ben, because he may have found out that maybe Ben is truly behind his wife’s murder.