And Aaron, thank you for the wonderful Michael Emerson story. Time out of mind!!

I think it would be amazingly cool to have a Lost Podcast reunion before or after the finale…. Would anyone be game?

Not sure if anyone has brought this up, but it seems to me that the Dharma Initiative guy who showed Jack where Sawyer lived, also saw Jack hugging Juliet. So I’m gathering that the shit is not too far from hitting the fan in terms of the O6 jig being up. Thoughts?

welcome to the best lost podcast out there. i think your cannibal theory is refreshingly brilliant.

1st time poster and only a recent listener (my son just got me hooked on the podcasts).

i didn’t scroll all of the comments, but I have three observations:

1) “Namaste” is an anagram of “Eats Man”.
Recall that Richard Alpert was quite anxious to retrieve the three fresh kills in last week’s episode to bring back to his people. Recall that Alpert was anxious to retieve the body of Ben’s murdered father, but was rebuffed by Ben.

Note that, in the time of RA (Richard Alpert), the first pharoh, ancient egyptians were cannibals.
http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/egypt_humansacrifice.html

it adds up to a potentially grusome development in the series.

2) whoever decided to put jack to work as a janotor was a brilliant move. as a faceless laborer, he can simply hide in plain sight as he sweeps, collects trash, etc. while doing his menial janitorial duties. he can go virtually anywhere in the compound with a broom and a trashcan to snoop around without arousing undue suspicion. if caught, he can play dumb and the worst consequence is getting chased off.

3) Locke is the key to getting Sun or Ben back to 1977. Recall Charlotte’s observation that objects held or touched by time travelers (like the zodiac inflatable boat) also pass through time with the people. Locke holds the compass. He is “special”. He will be able to go back to 1977. All he has to do is physically hold onto Sun and he will bring her with him.

I’m getting more convinced that the series finale will result in preventing Flight 815 from ever crashing on the Island (maybe in the Island never having existed at all?). I’m picturing the show turning out to have some kind of DonnieDarko-esque ending that will completely change the lives of everyone involved. And so anyone who dies in this timeline is not actually dead because they will never have been killed.

Thats why everyone shows up as ghosts, because they will be alive again in the altered timeline? Walt is harder to explain, because he never really died.
Maybe Miles being born on the Island (if he was) is the reason that he can talk to ghosts? Maybe Ethan and Aaron have that power too?

(This is a stretch) Christian appearing to Michael is the result of the freighter crossing the perimeter, and Michael DID move into the island’s past… which could explain Michael being unable to die… and maybe Walt’s powers? Or maybe Walt comes back to the island to look for his dad, meaning that he goes back in time too.

The Island cures most of the Castaways of some deep personality flaw… present long before the crash… but all of them have some history with the Island… if the Island is the source of those problems, and if it never existed then they would have been fine from the beginning?

I can’t come up with a good reason that Lapidus wouldn’t have made the jump, but I think the pregnancy can explain Sun. Maybe he just wasn’t on the island long enough, or maybe its because he wasn’t there when Desmond turned the failsafe key?

If the freighter had passed through the island’s perimeter, would Michael have jumped in time too?

And Locke and Ben not making the jump must have something to do with their turning the wheel… If Ben said that turning the wheel meant they could never return, does that mean that the island in 2007 is less meaningful significant somehow, less powerful? Still, it resurrected Locke…

I feel like what Hawking said about replicating the first flight was a lie, and that she knew who could jump and how… and she was somehow using the “recreate815″ story as an excuse to get the 6minusAaron all on the same plane … but why wouldn’t she have told the truth?

I think that making the jump to 1977 has more to do with getting off the island than being a passenger of 815. Locke was a passenger of 815, but he didn’t make the jump.

Sun /was/ one of the Oceanic 6, but at that time she was pregnant.
So the journey that Christian was talking about will involve getting off the island again and returning with Ji Yeon, which would allow her to make the time-jump.

The next funny story , i decided i had to rent this beautiful corvette i had seen in waikki, it was bright yellow convertable with shiny rims. Hard on material. It was a dream of mine to drive around the island in a bit of american muscle. So we cruised up heading to the north shore. The day before we had been on a hummer tour in the kuola ranch and we spotted some filming taking place just off the main road. they told us that was were the cock pit was stored and i had spotted a blue dharma van. Any way we come accross the filming, and my wife says just pull in. There was no where to park and i was hesitant at first. The words of the car hire man was sticking in my head. This car is in perfect condition, becarefull because its super low , off road is a no no and dont scratch those rims!!! But i gulped hard and drove in super slow. Now it was quite well protected by security. The actors trailers all grouped together and people every where. So we are sitting there in this corvette, top down, and no body comes to the car so i keep driving. We got almost entirely inside before a guy in a blue shirt wanders over. Can i help you guys?
The only thing i could think of was: Are you guys filming here today.
then the security guy looks at us, then the car and finally says, Yes but we dont let public inside.
Then i was like bugger we got caught. Let me tell you, doing a 3 point turn on a jungle road in a corvette was so worth the risk. From there we cruised up to police beach. Looked like they had filmed there recently. was awesome to see.

I cant recommend going to Hawaii enough. The place is amazing. Even if your not a lost fan. All three of you. The hummer tours are awesome as well get out there and do it.

Ow… I just experienced a flash and now my nose is bleeding… …

What if the island, because of it’s special ‘unstuck from time’ properties is a sort of thorn in the side of the normal universe, and because somehow, long ago something happened on the island, another ‘incident’ maybe, that buggered up the normal space-time continuum, maybe now the universe is trying to correct itself by bringing those conditions together again to recreate the event, and in such a way that things become corrected again. The Valenzetti numbers predict the end of the world yes? They remain unchanged and therefore indicate that the disturbance created by the island will eventually lead to the end of the end of the world. A change in those numbers would indicate that the disturbance had been corrected. I postulate that the original disturbance may have happened a long long time ago, i.e. during Egyptian times (statue!), The fight between the ‘gods’ Horus and Set maybe. The wrong side won, and things are screwed up, island unstuck in time, causing all sorts of paradoxes and sh*t. Now, periodically in order to attempt to correct itself, the universe pulls together those same players again and again, the reincarnations of those original players must re-fight the battle, until the right side wins, and the universe is corrected, the valenzetti parameters changed, and the island returns to being a normal island. Our Losties are some of those players, however they are unwittingly so. Some of the ‘others’ are other players in that battle, maybe the ones that won the first time, but wrongly so?

Or maybe I have had WAY too much coffee today.

Its because as part of the Oceanic 6, she was pregnant. I think she will have to leave the island, find Ji Yeon, and when she returns again she will make the jump to 1977. Maybe she’ll have to bring Aaron too?

Sure charlie went in through his own free will, that changes nothing.

Otherwise, I’m not sure how he would have avoided the purge, unless he was not on the island at the time. I guess that is possible if he was off island training to be a doctor? Would he have been old enough for that when the purge happened?

Eko was meant to go to the island one way or the other and he did.
Things like that, yknow.

Its the writters using MRs Hawking as a story constant to put over their Course Correcting Ratonale, that a complicated yet rewarding show deserves/needs.

Only we, the viewers, from our external, omniscient perspective can see the telltale signs of these shifts. Such as the discrepancy with the class of 77 photo mentioned above.

And didn’t she say this at at a time when she was desperately trying to convince Desmond to accept a destiny that that he did in fact have the power to change?

I was playing Lexulous (Which is like an online scrabble game) and everytime you log into the Lexulous main menu it greets you with a different greeting from another country.

Today when I logged on I almost went nuts when I saw it said Namaste.

I was like woah thats kind of cool they even incorperate made up greetings.

I clicked on it to see what they said about it and was surprised when I saw it said:

“Namaste

A popular form of greeting in India usually said with folded palms and fingers pointing upwards. Pronounced as “Nam-a-stay”.”

So I’m not certain what the fact that it is a popular Indian greeting has to do with the show, if anything at all, but I thought I’d post here to see what y’all thought.

What if the incident was similar to the explosion of the hatch in some way?
And what if Richard would be exposed the same way Desmond was with the Hatch. He could then experience the same “side effects” and see the future.

It could be wrong, but i thought with what we know for the moment it could make sense.

I agree the Incident must have something to do with the Orchid, after all, season 5 opens with what Chang says “God help us all”

truly and inspiring epic!

xxxWEST-SAYIDxxx

When Sawyer and the new others arrived, they took on new names. Daniel will take the name Jacob.

Daniel has “vanished”, probably because of the incident, and as such, he’s trapped in his current “state”, and Ben knew about the whole thing since he was there when it happened as a child.

In terms of the awful state of New Otherton when Frank and Sun arrive: I am not sure that the destruction we see is just from Keamy’s misadventures three years back. Many people have assumed that Sun and Lapidas are in the present day, and the one clear reason to think this is the presence of the airplane runway. But I think it’s possible that we don’t know yet what timeframe they are really in. It seems clear that something is about to go awry back in the 70s (Jack *really* does not want to clean toilets while Sawyer reads books!). I believe there may yet be some new outcomes–and that there might be a conflict coming that dismantles New Otherton that hasn’t happened in the previously set timeline. This idea just repeats what others have already said here; just because the universe corrects itself eventually, doesn’t mean that everything has to be the same along the way.

Finally, why were Jack, Hurley, and Kate on Ben’s “list” at the end of season two (and am I remembering correctly that they were the only three)? Is it possible he had already seen their picture in the Dharma clubhouse–the three new recruits from the class of 77? Like most coincidences in the cross-temporal plot, the time travel both creates an explanatory possibility and yet embeds within that possibility its own impossibility (or more simply put, present us with a time traveling contradiction): i.e., how could Ben know they were there in 1977 yet they didn’t remember they were there yet? Still, it seems a significant coincidence.

Thanks for your podcast Ryan and Jen. You do a really great job.

I like your theory of Sun being Chang’s baby and therefore she and Ben could not go back to the 70′s since the new selves cannot meet with the old ones. We can be sure that they landed in 2007, as when we see the marquee of “30 years ago” the flash goes straight to the 1977 DI times.

Going back to the Sun/Ben theory not being in 1977, there’s still something that goes around in my mind. If they couldn’t co-exist with their younger selves, then everyone on the plane should have been transported to 1977. You might say “yes, but the other people on the plane had never been on the island before”. There’s where Frank comes in. He had been on the island, and he wasn’t around during the DI times…….or was he?

Cheers everyone and it’s great to read your posts!

Doug: Your posts re: time travel have the eloquence of logic, and are thus approachable, and attractive. Nice.

I have been feeling that I might be missing something significant, and I rewatched ‘Jeremy Bentham’, or started to. I found something I think is very significant. When Whidmore confronts Locke in the Tunisian infirmary (and I do think the woman there is more that slightly familiar), he gives a very brief history of his (C. Whidmore’s) time on the island. I urge anyone interested to review that scene.

Locke met him in ’54, on the island, and CW is quite young. CW states in the infirmary that he was leader of ‘the others’ for over 3 decades, until “forced” off by Benjamin Linus. 54+30=1984 (can fudge a bit here). I do not think Ben is in a position in 1977 to “force” anyone off the island.

Ergo- Charles Whidmore is on the island, with ‘the others’ (“hostiles”), in 1977. (‘Right now’ on the show)

It may just be me, but I think THAT is as significant to the development of developments as anything so far discussed, and I am just getting my mind around what that might possibly portend.

Anyone?

Brandon is exactly right, when the timeline isn’t linear, the future must be in accord with events of the past. Course correcting is making sure the timeline matches up if people are dipping their feet in time travel.

This is where course-correction is important. Ms. Hawking says that some things are preordained and the universe course corrects to ensure certain things happen. No matter how hard Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and anyone else who time travels try, they will in some way be forced to go to the place where the timeline says they are. If they hadn’t gotten on 316, they just would have gotten back to 1977 another way. It cannot be changed because it has already happened that 1977 occurred with them in it. The universe must find a way to bring them back to that time. The past isn’t changed. The past occurs and the future must accommodate (course correct) what happens in the past in some way. The future isn’t changed, nor is it preordained, but there are time posts and events that must occur.

(This is in some sense like The Prisoner of Azkaban: Harry and Hermione didn’t change the past, they merely acted to ensure that the time line synchronized correctly with the present — when they use the time-turner — to the way it always was. For example, Buckbeak was never executed like the events seemed to indicate. We simply didn’t observe everything we needed to realize that Harry and Hermione were always in two places at once and Buckbeak was never killed a first time. There was never a *first* or *second* time, there was only one event. We the reader and they the agents are just biased by perception.
Also, had Harry and Hermione not followed Dumbledore’s instructions and returned promptly to the infirmary at nearly the same moment they left using time-travel, the whole world wouldn’t have unraveled, it just could have been obvious to others that someone had used time travel and that the perception of a linear time line of events is false.)

So in this sense, it’s more important that the time-line be rigid. But this is not to say that the time-line must be linear. That’s just an false assumption due to perception bias.

Similarly, some of the Oceanic Six, Sawyer, Juliet, et al. are always in the Dharma Initiative. The picture of the recruits of 1977 has always existed since 1977. We as the observer (and the Oceanic Six) have just not had all the information we needed to realize this.

The only paradox is in our perception, not in the time line.

But on the other hand, My real question is did she always deliver him? Was she always meant to be there? If they were already there and did all these things why didn’t it change the future the first time? Why are things changing now like Dharmaville? Were these people always in the past or just visiting it for the first time now. One minute I have one theory and then the next I change my mind. Does Charlotte know Korean because Jin taught her? If that is how she learned it why didn’t she remember Jin?

These are the questions that give me headaches and bring me to visit this board. You all have such good theories, but on the other hand, some of you are so convincing that I have to rethink my theories.

Kate asked Jack if the lady who told him the plan to get back to the island mentioned that they would go back 30 years earlier. That is when Jack said “no, she left that part out”.

i believe he was the one who set up the self-destruct code in the Flame (Enter 77) and used 77 as a reference to the year the O6 “entered” when they returned to the island, possibly as a clue for Locke to use later.

also, the drawing on the Swan hatch door i believe was more for Locke’s benefit and his suicide/death i think will end up being something that he knew he had to do to keep Kelvin from killing Desmond when he arrives.

thoughts?

Perhaps along the way down the board people could voluntarily post “Iteration 175132″, “Iteration 175133″ about every 10 posts or so. Haha –

Rich in Cleveland : RE: Agreeing that Juliett is a mole. Good point…she may have allegieances that even go further back than Ben. Hmmm…I always thought that the Ben / Richard / Ethan recruitment process was a little odd and that a smart scientist of her caliber would be unlikely to buy into their pitch. Maybe she had other reasons, not just “Other” reasons….lame joke, huh?

and guess what—that is what makes the show interesting…that they can play with what happened in the past…if they can affect nothing in the past then why the heck are we watching? In other words- in 2006 that photograph of the new recruits would not have Hurley etc in it…but now it does. They are there to “make things right”. I suppose one could argue that they are there to help things happen the way they are supposed to…like Desmond was there to help Charlie live long enough to enable the connection to the outside world- thereby revealing the Islands presence to Widmore and Penny.

BTW it would be cool if posts were numbered…I can never remember where I left off when I sign back in to see what everyone is saying… I mean I could say “I left off at Knives Monroe’s post” but that wouldn’t help because Knives is like our glue holding other posts together!! : )

and guess what—that is what makes the show interesting…that they can play with what happened in the past…if they can affect nothing in the past then why the heck are we watching? In other words- in 2006 that photograph of the new recruits would not have Hurley etc in it…but now it does. They are there to “make things right”. I suppose one could argue that they are there to help things happen the way they are supposed to…like Desmond was there to help Charlie live long enough to enable the connection to the outside world- thereby revealing the Islands presence to Widmore and Penny.

BTW it would be cool if posts were numbered…I can never remember where I left off when I sign back in to see what everyone is saying… I mean I could say “I left off at Knives Monroe’s post” but that wouldn’t help because Knives is like our glue holding other posts together!! : )

Can anyone clue me in on that discussion between the two of them?

It was a great episode!!

Thanks!
Daryl

I also think that the incident is going to have to do with the electromagneticsm going off like it did when Desmond pulled turned the key. That’s what will kill Horace and make Chang loose his arm. That’s what will make someone have to type in the numbers every 108 minutes to release the energy.

Also, I wonder if Christian really is there physically and could be a manifestation of Ol’ Smokey. Smokey was rustling the brush before Christian appeared and appears to be in the house when he is talking to Frank and Sun. Could this explain why he can’t help Locke with standing up and getting the wheel? Maybe Ol’ Smokey wasn’t holding the lantern in the wheel cave but simply projecting the appearance and light from one. Or, maybe there are other limits to what Ol’ Smokey can and can’t do. Maybe Mr. Cloud Monster couldn’t help Locke to the wheel because it’s like kryptonite to ‘him.’

Anyway, just some thoughts. I look forward to this weekend’s podcast.

but what do I know, I’m from Texas.

Also, one of the O6 has NOT made it back to the island, right? I.e., Aaron? Does that mean that destiny can’t play out the way Benry needs it to?

Re the romantic side of things, it was palpable that Jack and Juliet have a serious thing for each other and so do Sawyer and Kate- I’m always amazed at how filmmakers can get that feeling across. Perhaps Juliet and Sawyer hooked up so J could help Sawyer evolve into a kinder, gentler person– and perhaps all of Jack’s travails have made him a slightly less hot-headed guy, readier to be with Juliet… We’ll see, I guess! ?

These lyrics remind me of John Locke saying that he wouldnt go back and change the past because it brought him to where he is now.

Sorry if it’s off topic. But thats how I feel in regards of said Time Travel.

I really like your idea that Ethan is abducted as a child, which would lead to his being an Other and escaping the Purge. It seems though that the balance between the Others and the DI is governed by such a strict set of rules that I don’t think they would just swoop in and grab the infant without proper justificiation.

I’m wondering if his kidnapping would be the result of some violation of the Truce that we have yet to see. Perhaps our Losties are responsible for something happening that demands a more serious kind of “justice” from Richard’s people – namely, the exchange of one life for another instead of just one body for another body (like with Paul’s corpse). What do you think?

-2008

Do we even know if Sun, Frank, and Ben are in 2008? Night changed to day after the flash that took the other 4 off the plane. Perhaps they’re not even where we think they are. If there are Dharma signs littered everywhere, what if they’re in the 90s just after the Purge (but if it’s the 90s, how could Christian be there?)?

-Aaron and Sun

Sun’s failure to return to 1977 must relate to some purpose she needs to serve to help bring Aaron and Ji Yeon back to the Island. Perhaps since Aaron was in Sun’s custody when they left the Island, they would need each other to get back. There are some problems with this thinking (all the Oceanic 6 + Frank left with Desmond, and they were able to get back just fine without Desmond.) It just seems fitting that if Aaron doesn’t come back to the Island at the right time, Sun won’t either.

Then, does Sun know where Aaron is? Sun intimated that Aaron would be Ji Yeon’s playmate in The Little Prince. She has been his caretaker before and took Aaron off the Island physically to the freighter. Perhaps Ben was trying to steal Aaron because Widmore (through Sun) also wanted him for some nefarious purpose.

-Juliet.

It’s not that Juliet can’t be trusted, it’s just that she has always been manipulated by Ben to do his bidding. She wants to get off the Island more than anything else. Ben knows this and dangles the carrot: if you follow orders, I may let you go.

Has this, or hasnt this been the best season of LOST thus far?
Season 1 could have ended and it would have been triumphant in its own right! but.

I see it this way:

In every story, video game, movie, tv show, play, we have…THREE ACTS

3 acts in every story.

Your Beginning, your middle, and your end.

I see the series as such, Season 1 and 2 are ACT 1.
Season 3 and 4 is ACT 2
And obviously Season 5 and 6 is ACT 3.

Sincerely ‘Act 1′ is INCREDIBLE! And ‘Act 2′ is extraordinary in establishing where we are going. ‘Act 3′ is the end, and boy what a journey we are on!

So in my perspective, every ACT is amazing, but ACT 3 will be the best and most remembered.

But what do I know? I’m from Texas

xxxstraightedgexxx
xxxWEST-SAYIDxxx

Ben is not the Bad Guy.

T. O’Quinn and M. Emerson should share the Emmy.

John Locke is God.

Juliet says, “If I told you everything I know, you’d kill me.”

Maybe it’s her secret Other knowledge that prompts this, but maybe it’s her secret alignment as well.

To Hector: Is this the same “nice and tender” Sun that lied, blackmailed, and threatened murder in her own sordid back story? Who dragged her beloved into her Father’s dark world, fully aware of what that would mean, because she couldn’t abide the shame of his lowliness? Just wondering

Greg in Honolulu- If someone offers you a slinky tomorrow, it’s ok, we won’t expect you to think you’re back in the 60′s.

It’s a small thing nagging me, but it seems to strain the fabric of the story. Why were Jack, Kate, and Hurley surprised when told that they were back in time (1977).They all arrived in the Dharma VW bus, freshly painted and running well. Hurley, especially, would have recognized it as the old beat-up van he’d found and used to come to the rescue back in 2004(?). What have I missed?

Because time travel is
1. not possible… as far as they or anyone but a few island folk know
2. not an expected part of their return to the island
3. not a normal occurrence (except for Greg apparently)

A van does not mean time travel… it could mean that they had 3 years to fix restore and paint a van. That is more likely than time travel. Also, there are several DI vans and jeeps.

so surprise is in order

My Ben theory: I think he will turn out not to be the vicious little bastard we all think he is. That would be typical of the writers to give us a twist like that. I think things will happen that will force him to act as he does to get the O6 to where they need to be – back on the island. I think the losties will at least in part come to realize that and coach young Ben, giving him knowledge of the future. At least, one of them will. I also think some of the losties will join the others, maybe even be pitted against one another in the final battle. Ohhh, so exciting.

And relatedly, I don’t think it was Ben who wanted the runway constructed back in season 3 but jacob. That is to say, I don’t think Ben, at that point, “knew” the future, though I do think Jacob did. Ben was probably just following orders and so then, in turn, ordered the Others to build the runway. If so, does this mean one characteristic Jacob has is that he does know the future, as in, he has been around the ‘spinning record’ of time at least a few times already?

You propose three theories why Sun didn’t flash back to 1977, but how about looking at it from another perspective: Why did Jack, Hugo, Kate, and Sayid flash back? Maybe it’s something special about Sun that kept her from flashing back or maybe it’s something special about the other four that caused them to flash back.

One other thought about Sun- she’s not the only one of our 815ers who’s not in 1977. The other one, whom some people think they saw the other night? Claire. And what do Claire and Sun have in common- they were both pregnant on the island and have both seen Christian.

I tried to read all the comments, but man! 150+ is a bit tiring to do! So I’m going to point some stuff that maybe has already been discussed.

First, I think that Ethan was abducted from the others as a youngster (maybe not as a baby) by the Others before Ben joined them. That’s how he survived the purge and always acts like a very loyal Other. I came to this conclusion because I remember that since S1, the others have always been interested in young children (remember those two little kids that survived the 815 crash? I forgot their names) Probably Ethan was one of these “special children” and more as he was born on the island.

Second, I think it was a great joke from Sawyer to Jack how he assigned a janitor job. It was sort of a way of showing him who’s the boss now.

Third, Sun beating Ben after getting the info she needed was simply awesome. But on the other side, it shows how she’s gone evil and mad. Maybe when she meets with Jin again, she’ll become the nice and tender Sun that we remember.

Finally, what’s up with Hurley’s guitar case? They have been taking care of it everywhere and we don’t even know what it contains! I even remember a scene where we see Sawyer loading it up on the Dharma van, and I’m sure they showed that scene for a reason. I don’t think there’s a guitar inside, but can’t wait to see what will come out when they open it.

Anyway, love the podcast and everybody’s comments, too bad I don’t have the time to read all of them. I guess I’ll have to wait till the podcast comes out to have a summary for all of them.

Greetings from sunny Mexico!

But what I don’t get it is why it is GhostDharmaville in the first place. Why would there be the dangling recruiting signs if it was the same timeline as before… I’m thinking that the TimeTravel stuff is more like the Back to the Future alternate timelines. It reminds me of BTTF#2 when Marty was in the Las Vegas Hill Valley. – although I don’t remember Sun going to Dharmaville during the 815-ers, she was always at the beach – or in the boat – never in the village.

However we know how the LOST universe is, more or less, and we know that things happen for a reason, so its possible that Sun has work to do in 2007.

I like your, Locke rising after 3 days. Thats bloody brilliant and scary! :0

xxxWEST-SAYIDxxx

On another note, here is an observation on Richard Alpert that I have not heard anyone mention or talk about either. When the the losties were flashies and jumping thru time, it seems that everyone they came in contact with thought they were contemporaries…until they flashed. And as we learned from Russo, whenever they flashed, apparently they disappeared. Thats also alluded to when sawyer is talking to Richard and mentions that a guy named Locke wandered into his camp and disappeared before his eyes when he met him years ago (and Richard seemed to agree).

But what is strange to me, is that in the one scene before that, after Locke got shot and Richard shows up….he is the only one who seems to realize that not only are they flashing, b/c he new they only had limited time…but he knew where they were going to flash to next b/c he told Locke that “i wont recognize you” next time i see you…therefore giving him the compass. That is astronomical more amount of knowledge and insight than anyone else they come into contact with. Can u imagine Russo or any others saying something like that?

Its almost like in that instance…Richard was in a godspot of some kind…it seems he was aware of the whole picture (which plays into the theories of him being a pharoh, eternal, etc). He steps out of the character in the play and sits in the audience who knows it IS a play.

But then…when he sees locke next he’s back on the same level as everyone else who saw this guy disappear before his eyes. Then in the future scenes with Sawyer he also appears to be someone with limited knowledge as he is caught off-guard and somewhat impressed by what sawyer is telling him.

I dont know….seeing Im the only one asking such stupid questions…that could be telling in itself. I’m prepared to have missed the obvious.

Z

1. The New Dock – I didn’t think that the dock blew up…the sub did. Or it could have been repaired if damaged. Maybe by the people in “The Temple” that were left. They also would be there to put out the boats for Ben’s return. I am also assuming they have been waiting for Ben’s return.
2. Juliet -I am convinced that Juliet is still Ben’s mole. She and Ben had a long conversation before she handcuffed herself to Kate. They were going over the tail end of a very large plan. Ben & the Others had already worked on the runway for the airplane. Ben must have let her in on a very long story and very big secret. She was told to act like she ‘re-deemed’ herself to the group after Claire’s implant went off causing her to be sick. We are under the impression that she may have switched sides and hates Ben, but that could still be a trick ~ even if partially true. She has stated that she is a “believer” in Jacob.
3. Sun – The technical reason that Sun did not go back with J/K/Hurley is that the circumstances are different and according to Hawking & Faraday “unpredictable”. If you look at it another way then perhaps J/K/Hurley should have landed w/ the plane, but flashed back due to the “unpredictableness”. To me it seems much more unpredictable that someone would flash off of an airplane to 1977 than to assume that just because 3 people did that 4 should. Or even 1 person should ever flash out of existence. If it were predictable then all would have crash landed. Perhaps Sun is the lucky one?
4. Where was Locke? – I like to think that Locke’s body was in the cargo area of the plane. He may have been trapped there until found…and his casket may not have even opened from the inside. The scene people are worrying about seems right after the crash when Ben / Sun / Frank bolt towards the other side of the small island. One of 2 things. He will be found soon by 316ers when rummaging through whats left of the plane, OR He will raise after 3 days of being dead on the island.
5. Why is Ben on the cot? – - Obviously many of the injured are taken to the buildings of the small island. While scouting they will soon find an unconcious Ben laying there since Sun whacked that SOB. ( Although I’m not letting go that he may be one of the good guys……..I love this show ).

Brian “NuckinFuts” ~ Atlanta, GA

When we see Juliette looking distraught over Jack and Kate’s return, I assumed she was worried that Kate was coming back to ruin what she had with Sawyer. But watching again last night, I was struck by the wamrness of her embrace of Jack when he showed up at her doorstep. What if her angst was over her unresolved feelings for Jack, not Sawyer’s for Kate? Jack and Sawyer will obviously be pitted against one another…certainly an opportunity for Juliette to choose sides.

So Rich, I think it is a bit of redemption and a bit of “man of faith vs man of science”.

Also, how do you think Claire will play into all of this?

I kind of get the symbolism of Jack starting over at the bottom (work man) just as someone who doesn’t learn the lessons of this life is destined to repeat another karmic cycle of until they get it right. It just gets under my skin that all the hatred of Jack gets rewarded much in the same way that Nikki & Paolo & Frogurt got the collective thumbs down from the mob.

Here’s a vote for the common welfare as opposed to “every man for himself” as Sawyer again says in this week’s preview.

Well as jen likes to say “My head hurts”. I am sure we will find out soon what is going on, and in the meantime, I just bought the LOST magazine and I am enjoying reading about Damon and Carlton’s info about season 5. There are also interviews with Michael Emerson, Matthew Fox and Terry O’Quinn,

re: the figure behind Sun, I still can’t see it on my tv and I have tried slow mo and still no luck, this show is filmed in stardard format right? Not letterbox? I keep wondering if my tv is cutting off that part of the screen. I see it in the screen cap but not on my own television.

I believe that the whole not having babies issue started after the purge. I think maybe the purge wasn’t supposed to happen and it effected future time and events on the island and that is why women can’t have babies. The Others were responsible for the purge and maybe they are being punished by the island for it.

My theory is that Juliet will break Sawyer’s heart and not the other way around.

Also, I really like Sawyer’s new attitude. I think it makes him even sexier!!

Questions:
Wasn’t Ben unconscious and badly injured the after the plane crash and Locke told the other crashees that Ben killed him? What happened with that? What happened to Locke and why didn’t Sun see him? Or was the Locke scene in the near future after Sun went back to the main island?

Lets do some math about young Ben
If he was 14 in 1977, that would make him in his mid 20s in 1988 when Rousseau arrived.
The purge must have occured before Rousseau got there.
However, Ben looked much older than 25 when the purge happened.
One would think that Sawier would be sort of taking Ben under his wing in the mid 70s, straigthening Roger (who will certainly come across Jack in their janitorial capacity; would Jack get involved in making Roger a better man?)
Obviously, Ben may already have become interested in helping Hostiles, by supplying some side help to the prison keepers. or at least becoming exposed to Hostiles in trying to know more about them…
It seems likely that he woud help Said escape.
But why would he escape?

Why would Radzinsky be building the Swan model in the Flame?
Horace seems to be still in charge in 1977 (according to Radzinsky)
Pierre Chang is a scientist forced to take care of incoming recruits but not at all in charge
We have to believe that his child is not born yet, as the orientation fils were shot in the early 80s
Was Daniel out of the island for a while, and came back as a workman when the Orchid was built in the early 80s.
Why wouldnt he assume his role as proemiment physicist? (as Chang did not appear to acknowledge him as a scientist when bumping into him)

Indeed it seems strange that the DI would not question further Juliets involvement in delivering baby Ethan.
As for his presence among the others in 2004, I guess it is fair to admit that he was out of the island studying at medical school when the purge happened.
Ben got him to come back later

Another theory behind Sun not going to 1977 could be that she left her baby Jeon behind. See below for my own hehehe
I think I heard the second part of the whispers as «Its alright Sun»
Regarding the blond silouhette in the background behind Sun, I have rewatched it many times in slowmo (one fifteenth frames) and frankly I tip my hat to those who picked it up cause it is not easy to see even in HD
The image posted dismisses any doubts.
It seems that those present were oblivious of its presence.
Could it be that 3 years of abandonment destroy the barracks so much?
I guess there must have been a change in history cause the place looks abandoned for a far longer time.
Maybe the DI was not wiped out after all…

I carefully monitored the people present during the welcoming procedure of the recruits
No sign of Ben
I believe I caught a glimpse of young teen Ben in DI jumpsuit outside the admission compound
No other person of note.
Now check out the picture of the 1977 recruits (and the live picture taking)
The friends are there, but not Jin.
Look at the Asian couple
Could it be Mr. Paik and a pregnant Mrs Paik ? and Sun was already on the Island (freaky huh…?)

Is course-correction and the idea that “you can’t change anything” in the future (Daniel’s words) mutually exclusive? Because I would argue that it is…

If we look at the case of Charlie in Season 3, we see Desmond trying four times to save his life (the first drowning incident, the lightening strike, the drowning-after-chasing-the-par-avion-bird incident, and the arrow to the throat while hiking off after Naomi). Some would say that the universe just had it out for Charlie, so when the first attempt to off him failed, the course-correcting kicked in and the lightening strike was set into motion. So, eventually Charlie’s time runs out after switching off the jamming mechanism in the Looking Glass, and when he dies the course is finally corrected.

But let’s think of it another way: What if Charlie’s timeline wasn’t supposed to end at the very first attempt to save Claire when Desmond stepped in instead? What if, no matter what, Desmond always saved Charlie all four times, because his path was SUPPOSED to lead to the Looking Glass? If Charlie had died trying to save Claire, Sayid would have been the volunteer to swim down and disable the jamming device, which certainly wouldn’t have been easy for a military man. Instead, it’s a job suited for a musician who would know the tune to Good Vibrations. It’s something ONLY he could do.

I think this course-correcting is just one way of looking at a small piece of the bigger picture – that in any character’s timeline, they may think that they are averting certain disasters or insuring certain events, but really things always happen the way they are supposed to, and this can’t be changed – not by going to the past, nor by trying to manipulate the present. Desmond wasn’t delaying Charlie’s death by “saving him” four times – He was unaware that his actions were actually bringing Charlie to where he needed to be in the finale of Season 3.

What do you think?

Still, I really don’t know how to explain the ghost town they find.
Daniel’s explains that you can’t change anything in the future by altering the past – I take that to mean that you may THINK you’re altering the course of events, but you actually always did it that way – for example, Sawyer stepping in to save Amy…it wasn’t just an impulse decision that changed everything…I see it as him simply doing what he always did in that timeline, and it brought about the events that follow which in the end brings our Losties to the Island on 815. This is how it always was, there was no rewriting history and leading to a completely different 2004 or 2007. At least that’s how I hear Daniel…

So I wonder if Sun and Frank walked into a scene that Smokie created. We know that Mr. Eko saw and talked with a vision of what he thought was his brother Yemi in the episode where he died, and that’s generally assumed to be Smokie…so why couldn’t that ghost town have been the same? I just have a hard time reconciling Daniel’s absolute statement of “It doesn’t matter what we do” with an altered future where New Otherton never existed.

2. She was not visited by John off Island.
I guess this is also possible, but do we absolutley know she didn’t see John?

3. She is already there.
I think this can be ruled out because Sawyer and company have been flashing back and forth to time zones when we’re certain they present in.

So it must be that Sun has a history differrent from the O6 that we just haven’t learned about yet. She must have been on Island before or there is some back story we have yet to see. We’ve all seen how creepy she’s been off Island and we did not see the entirety of her conversation with Widmore at the airport. I’ll bet there’s much more about Sun than we realize.

So, if we follow this line of thinking and agree with Daniel and Ms. Hawking (interesting, by the way, that they would be of the same mind, seeing as how they’re mother and son), you can’t change the future. You can delay the unfolding of events, and perhaps change the order/manner in which things take place, but eventually what’s supposed to happen will happen. In other words, we’ll always get from point A to point B. Sometimes we’ll follow a straight line, and sometimes we’ll get off course, but in the end we’ll always reach our destination.

John, interesting theory re: the dharma buildings. I keep thinking the theory of time travel is that you can’t change the ultimate outcome (a person will did if they are supposed to die) but you can change the circumstances and how the death came about. So if Dharma is meant to be destroyed it will be, but how it will be destroyed can change. After the purge the others could take over the buildings because the people died but the buildings stayed intact. It looks like in the previews next week that there will be a fire, perhaps caused by the Oceanic 6, if the fire destroys the village then the others won’t choose to live there and it will be abandoned.

May God help us all.

But I’ll agree that even if it wasn’t the Smoke Monster, I think the writers really, really, really want us to keep in mind that Smokie is there in 2007 on “our island” and he is there for a reason.

A few paranoid thoughts on Juliet:

As much as I love her, I have not ever really trusted her. Not that I think she is still in cahoots with Ben…it’s just that I have not forgotten how many times the “Others” have lied to the “816ers”. That being said, here are a few things that I noticed from “Namaste”:

* Her expression when she found out that Jack, Kate and Hurley came back seemed shocked. This could have been not because she was just surprised that they came back, but if she, as an Other, had been told that once you left the island, it would not let you back on.

* Sawyer said to Juliet, “I don’t understand it any more than you”. I think that is the writers letting the audience know that Juliet DOES understand more than Sawyer. Or at least, she knows more and as she observes her current timeline, she is seeing events unfold that she has observed (or have been told) about since she originally arrived on the island as an Other back in, what was it…2002?

* Amy asks Juliet when she and James are going to have a baby. Juliet responds, “The timing needs to be right.” I think this is the writers telling the audience that Juliet WILL have a baby and that the timing will need to be right for that baby to grow up to be pivotal later in the history of the island. Whether the Juliet character knows this is hard to tell.

* At the end of the episode, Jack tells Juliet that he wanted to acknowledge er when he saw her at registration. She responded, “We aren’t supposed to know each other.” I think that either she has realized (or the writers are foreshadowing) that she was not meant to have been an Other or the 816ers were never meant to have landed on the island in the first place and that all of the events due to the turning of the Donkey Wheel and the subsequent war will involve correcting this cosmic mistake.

* Oh…and as for the LOST, the Soap Opera…when Juliet shows up in the nick of time to save Kate from Phil’s suspicions, Juliet tells Kate, “Sorry about the mix-up”. I think the mix-up she is really talking about the swapping of herself as James’ love interest in Kate’s absence.

Namaste,
Alex in MD

However, I still think that a person can not or should not encounter themselves during time travel. This was stated in the first Orchid video that came out when Dr. Haliwax (Pierre Chang) freaks out about the possibility of the bunnies #15 getting near each other:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gERdALb5vQ Damon and Carlton said in a podcast last year that this video was one of the few non-TV-episode parts of the Lost canon, and it is relevant to the story/mythology of Lost.

What do we make of the fact that Charlotte’s body disappeared after the original flash to 1974, and everybody was a little confused about where it went? I think it was gone because Charlotte existed as a child in 1974 on the island. But I don’t know how to explain the “Sawyer watching Aaron’s birth” scene — he would have been in that time/place already. Maybe that was just because the donkey wheel was broken.

You might want to look up what quantum theorists refer to as “the Multiverse.” The writers behind the Back to The Future trilogy did a good job at explaining how one navigates around the Multiverse in Back to the Future II, when Doc Brown used a chalkboard to explain to Marty why the 1985 they arrived in was not the same 1985 he remembered.

On a side note… I believe that the writers of the Sarah Connor Chronicles don’t get how the Multiverse works, IMHO.

Where are Rose and Bernard? Why aren’t they ever mentioned?

I think Daniel might be the real scientist behind alll the Dharma Bunny experiments.

Anybody else miss Sawyer calling Kate “freckles?” I also thought jack seemed a bit too mellow and happy with Kate and Sawyer reuniting, he was so jealous that she was just doing Sawyer a favor, why doesn’t he act threatened now?

Now that we are starting to get questions answered, I am wondering what all of you want to see resolved by the end of the series. What would be the worst way this series could end?

I do not want to find out it is aliens or something stupid like that, I like the idea that the island is mystical.

Finally, in an interview with Terry O’Quinn he was asked what was one of the big questions he had about his character and show. This is not a spoiler, this is just his opinon. He stated that he wonders if the Island is good or bad. John always assumes the island is good, but what if the island’s motives are sinister?

I found it interesting that the tables are now turned on Sayid and his hands are handcuffed, thought to be a hostile, which seems to parallel when Ben was tied up and put in the armory when he was known as Henry Gale, thought to be an “Other.” In both situations, the person in prison is not to be trusted. The way that Sawyer said, “Bring him some food, we’re not savages,” was similar to the gestures made by people who took the bindings off of Ben and when Locke gave him The Brothers Karamazov to read. There’s, again, a struggle over where the prisoner is locked up and who gets to talk to him first. The issues over the keys, all similar to locking Ben in the armory.

I liked the counter clockwise spin of the plane as it went through the “open window” and I liked when Sayid and Jin met up again and then, Jin: “Say another word and you’re dead.”

It is significant that we know Ethan is Amy’s baby and that Juliet helped him come into this world. Can they change the course of Ethan’s destiny?

I think Faraday left the island. Sawyer seems disappointed in his theories of what you can or can’t do and Faraday could have left to do more research, or as others said, could have been on the same sub departure with Charlotte.

I liked how Miles couldn’t stop staring at Jack, Kate and Hurley.

Kate was looking absolutely pissed at seeing Juliet again. At the end, Kate looks at Sawyer as if he appears to be a different man now and he looks back at her sort of embarrassed that he’s not who he used to be, especially now that he’s leader and he just sent Jack on his way. There’s no “the gangs all here” vibe for them to feel good about returning. How can Jack, Hurley and Kate feel a sense that those they left behind need their help?

I loved the obvious animosity Ben showed towards Frank; what’s Ben carrying? I loved when Sun knocked out Ben and said, “I lied.” I wish Sun would have looked in his bag.

I was very freaked when the sound of “smokey” appeared at the dock when Sun and Frank arrived.

Christian saying to Sun, “I’m sorry, but you have a bit of a journey ahead of you.” What method of travel will be her journey? I also noticed how the weather turned for the worse upon Christian’s appearance; hasn’t this happened after Locke left Jacob’s cabin? I couldn’t see Claire with watching it so thanks for the screencaps that showed her. I think it must be Claire.

Sayid, meeting young Ben, and young Ben being everso curious about meeting a hostile. Is this the first hostile Ben has ever been this close to?

Going back to why the first pilot of 815 was killed by “Smokey”… Frank was supposed to be the pilot. I loved the parallel of the co-pilot of Ajira with the tree limb through him, but here Frank was walking on the boat dock and we could hear “Smokey” in the distance, retreating. So I want to see if “Smokey” is picky about whom it chooses to sacrifice; is it one’s individual destiny to die by this method if one is not meant to be on the island?

And watching the preview for next week has really sent me over the edge!

Why was Radzinski building the Swan? I think that just lie the Orchid was constructed over a magnetic pocket, the Swan was as well. Then I believe that “The Incident,” was some massive over-exposure of the magnetic energy, forcing them to release the energy on a timely basis. That mssive over-exposure may have been caused by a feud of some sort with the Hostiles. Could that be the “war?” Probably not. Anyways I did enjoy the episode, it is what I refer to as a “bridge” episode, setting up a connection to the next batch.

It seems like there is a lot of chitter-chatter about a death coming which is never a good thing. My guess is Juliet, her story is all over but the relationship with Jim. as shown in the preview, she says “stay away!” and I assume this is directed to Kate, but, I think her point on the triangle will be filed down due to death. We are due for this and I do not see her lasting.

Wasn’t the episode “Lafleur” episode great! he more I watch it the more I love it.I had to show my girlfriend just so she could see the flower/dinner/spooning scene, that was so slick as was Jim talking to Alpert. I call this episode “The Egypt Episode.” And what rock and roll band is famous for playing in Egypt in the 70′s??? The Grateful Dead. And what was the name of the two Dharma guys in the Pearl???

PHIL and JERRY!!! Someone is a Deadhead among the Lost writers, I LOVE IT!!!! This keeps getting better. Shannon, Thailand, Migratory Birds, SOS and Charlie joining the priesthood are all in the past! This show doesn’t waste time anymore!!!!

When Sun and Frank return to the Barracks in what’s supposed to be 2007, not only is the place eerily abandoned, but it’s noticeably different than what we saw in 2004 when the Others and then Locke’s group lived there. The cabin Christian emerges from has a Dharma logo on the door and there are still Dharma pictures on the wall, certainly not indicative of how the Others kept things when they were there.

There are supposed to be rules that you can’t go back and change the past, but what else could this mean? How could all that Dharma stuff be there in 2007 when it wouldn’t have been there in 2004?

Here’s a hunch (could be a bit of a stretch) from La Fleur…

When Sawyer and gang “rescue” Amy from the hostiles we don’t see any of the events that lead up to that scene. What we see is Amy, hooded, 2 men who look like hostiles with guns, one man in a jumpsuit – dead. The armed men are shot immediately so we never get any story but Amy’s. Let’s ponder for a moment the scene. Looks like a friendly picnic was interrupted. Amy says David was her husband. But for all we know she was romantic-picnicing with her “hostile” lover — they are beyond the sonic zone after all. I mean why would two Dharmans need to lunch romantically outside the safe perimeter?

I think she was meeting her hostile friends, one who she was perhaps more friendly with than the other. I think her husband David was on to her, followed her there, and confronted them. I think the quick drawing hostiles got one up on David and shot him before he could react and maybe we are misinterpreting the scene by thinking she and David were jumped by hostiles.

Didn’t guyliner say that the sonic barrier couldn’t keep them out? Well, maybe it’s thanks to Amy – she does obviously know the code. Amy could be their plant and why, eventually her son Ethan becomes a Hostile not an Other. This would answer why she was ok with handing her husband’s body over to the hostiles without much fuss. Just a thought to throw out there.

Now a question — are we sure Ms. Hawking is Mother Faraday? Did Daniel give his mom’s name as Hawking or are we taking this as the truth? Did anyone ever say Hawking = Faraday’s mom? For sure?

My observances of the Kate/Sawyer/Jack/Juliet situation — Kate does not seem happy with any guy she’s with. Not Sawyer, not Jack. Especially not Jack. I don’t think she needs to be with EITHER guy. Juliet – I still don’t trust. I think we’re going to come up with some big wiz-bang episode where she rocks our Losties world and turns on them. The whole reason she stays is to carry out this one big upsetting event. Don’t know what or why. Just have a feeling. I’ve been known to be wrong before.

I love the Rose/Bernard = Adam/Eve in the cave. That has to be right!

And what if Whitmore and Ben are both NOT the bad guy? What if there is an even bigger baddie calling the shots and THEY are pawns? What if Jacob is the bad guy pitting Whitmore against Ben for total annihilation to get the island all to himself. A master contortionist of human weaknesses, so to speak?

or…

What if Jacob is Jack in time travel state – Jack could be a nickname.

Ok, I’ll stop there.

’till rescued,
Tammy

xxxWEST-SAYIDxxx

Jared Ladish- Sun conceived on the island she wasn’t pregnant on the original flight.

The island got two people that it missed the first time around… Lapidus was supposed to fly the original plane and Mr Echo was supposed to be in the drug plane.

Jack looked relieved because now he doesn’t have to take care of everyone and get blamed for it all if it doesn’t work.

Again the writers do a great job with plot and the actors do a good job of delivering lines. But they fail again with real life believable interaction. No way do Sawyer and Jack go back to bickering after all that they went through. No way at all. How many hours of talking about time travel, history, and what the hell happened do you think would pass before they even remembered being rivals for a woman that has moved on? where’s Ben? Can we turn this around to our favor? What can we find out? Star Wars is coming out this year! ugh. they have a little fight then walk off ?

Looks like they are going to get found out by that snooping Dharma guy.

I agree w/ Michael281 and many others here that there is no reason to think that 2 people can’t be in the same place & time. I’m guessing it’s better if they don’t touch, but it’s gotta be possible. Sun & Ben ended up there for different reasons to be determined.

I also don’t understand the confusion in some of the first posts above as to whether or not Ben had met Richard in the jungle as a younger child. This is the same actor playing young Ben as last season ( or was it 2 ago? ). He is older now, has longer hair, is taller than when he glimpsed his mom & Alpert. This of course means that Ben is on his mission of joining the ‘hostiles’.

The photograph: If I caught what was said correclty, then Christian Shepard clearly says 1972.74.78,..ah 77. By this I take it that DHARMA definitely exists in 1978 so I don’t think that we are looking at an “alternate” timeline of Sun & Lapidus in the future.

My personal theory of the week:

I believe whatever happens this year will bring about “The Incident”. I think 815er’s are involved. After the incident DHARMA will realize that they should focus on other projects, but will stay out of the time travel business. So, DHARMA survives it, but Chang loses his arm as a result of it.

Somewhere between 1974 & 1977 Chang & Co. / DHARMA have discovered the donkey wheel / time travel “properties” / capabilities and studied for 3 or more years now. Here come the bunnies.

Other remarks:

I think that Juliet’s “mark” on her back will come into play and give away that she has been there or is not to be trusted. I think it’s a tool used by DHARMA and passed down to the “Others” when Ben takes over after the purge.

I am starting to wonder if Ben’s original list of names was to know who he should kidnap and escort to the “Temple” or join them and those who he knew he had interacted with when he was a kid.

Seems like Ben for once in the island does now know what to do from here,
It seemed to me when he killed Locke that it was his last mission, which was restore faith into Locke. Thats why I think he said “we’ll miss you John” referring not to him being DEAD but for John to become different, and having faith in himself and the island again. It was also shown that Ben’s arm was injured, yet it healed after the plane crash, either the Island cured him or it was another act.

Now for the question:
If the picture of the new Dharma recruits were there all along does this mean that Ben is lying about knowing where Kate Jack Hugo and Sayid really are?
But if Ben doesn’t know that would mean they were not in the picture until the O4 jumped through time with flight 316, which would mean Faradays string theory was wrong, because that would prove that the past could be changed.
(like McFly’s picture in Back to the Future)

You and I are on the same page.

Jack asks if Faraday’s here and Sawyer replies “Not any more”. Consider some facts. 1) He has spent his entire adult life studying space-time. 2) He was conducting time travel experiments at Oxford. 3) On the island, he continued studying time travel. 4) He was seen, working as part of DHARMA, around a power source, according to Dr. Chang, strong enough to manipulate time. Has Faraday again jumped through time, either forward or backwards?r

Sun saying “I lied” while standing over Ben was great, but why did she stop after whacking him only once? After all, Sun has stated that she and Charles Widmore have common interests in killing Ben.

And other aspect is: the hatch when desmond was for 3 years pressing the numbers to save the world. What was the incident (told by Chang in the videotape) that justified the construction of the hatch?

Hurley was on the list just to warn the rest of the survivors to not come back to rescue them, because he is not dangerous. The list of season 2 is not related to the fact of Sun being in the future and Sayid in the past.

Maybe Sayid, Jin, Sawyer, Jack, Kate and Hugo have something to do in the past, maybe to prevent some facts like “Dharma extermination”. Maybe John Locke and Sun stayed on the plain just to stay in the future to find a way to bring the others back in time after all.

How could Sun be Chang’s baby? Wasn’t it a boy?

I was very amused by the Ethan reveal as I had jokingly guessed it. When the talk started out about who the baby was, I didn’t think we really had a lot of evidence any which way and had commented that Ethan was the right age so maybe it was him. I’m glad it turned out that way, not to be right, but because I like the minor connection of Ethan more than a major connection like Jacob.

I’m of the opinion that because Aaron, and maybe even Ji Yeon didn’t go back, that it was an occurence that resulted in a ‘unpredictable’ outcome. I guess “ALL” of them really had to go back.

I don’t think that it matters that 2 of the same people can go back in time and see it each other. I think Charlotte only stayed because she passed away.

Oh and for the record, Miles HAS to be Changs kid. We know that Sun is the daughter of Mr. Paik.

xxxWEST-SAYIDxxx

I am in LOVE with the idea that Sun and Ben (and maybe Lapidus and Locke too?) didn’t travel back to 77 because they are already on the island during that time: Ben being small Ben and Sun being perhaps a child on the island (not Pierre Chang’s!) Hmmmm! Interesting!!

Also, can anyone post a link to the clip in the recruitment center where someone is behind Sun? Thanks for the screen cap Carol from Boston, but I was hoping for a clip…

Stay Lost!!

It also looks like Jack’s watch stopped, he was tapping it like it was broken, this was the watch given to him by his grandfather in one of the webisodes from a couple of years ago.

Also note that Lapidus got a cut in the same place as when he crashed the helicopter. Plus suddenly Ben’s arm was healed (like John’s legs were healed when he crashed)

I think the video of Chang that was shown at comicon showed something dire happening when the video was being shot, he says they are all going to die unless someone can help them, sounds like an “incident” to me. They also mention getting the “baby” to be quiet.

Knives Monroe-Great though about the flashlight vs the lantern. The first time Ben takes Locke to Jacob’s cabin, he says that Jacob doesn’t like technology and therefore they had to use a lantern for light. Has Jacob decided to tech-up? at least as far as using a flashlight?

Keep those theories coming!

Also, Dave: see Adam in Missouri’s point about Sawyer, Locke, et al. being on the Island when the hatch light goes off. Two places, same time.

Before that, the Incident (a big electromagnetic discharge) has to occur. Lostpedia records that the blast door map dates the Incident in 1985–still eight years away for the returnees. You can see the image itself at http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident. If that’s the case, I can’t see (at this point) a way for the 1977ers to be directly involved in either the Incident or the Purge without more time-jumping.

I would very much like to agree with cat, that Sun’s not jumping back with the other four is simply a result of there not being enough similarity between this group and the group on Oceanic 815. As many commented a few weeks ago, there really were enormous differences, and it could be that Mrs. Hawking was right–it’s just less predictable this way.

Finally, Ryan, is Radzinski’s attitude about keeping the Swan a secret any real indication that it was still unknown by the Others in 2004? As has already been pointed out, it was in the Others’ best interests to leave someone in the hatch (clearly visible from the Pearl and known about by Ben) to keep pressing the button. Radzinski clearly survived the Purge, but was aware of what happened, as evidenced by the gas mask protocol passed on to Kelvin and Desmond. He clearly understood the importance of his post inside the Swan, and had to stay put. Rather than sacrifice one of their own people to the hatch, and rather than set up a system of button-pushing shifts, the Others saved time and effort by letting this one Dharma employee live, doing the work for them.

xxxWEST-SAYIDxxx

Phil R wrote:
“What I just cannot wrap my brain around is that the island might exist in multiple times and locations. I don’t think it has jumped the shark at all… but the logic behind the setup is beyond me right now. The plane obviously jumped in SOME time, but it is unknown how much.”

Phil, you and I exist in multiple times and locations. 12 hours ago I was asleep at home in bed. Now I’m slacking off at work five miles away. What we CAN’T do is be in two places at one time. We also can’t be thirty years older or younger than we are at the moment we’re whatever age… a 10 year old Ben and 40 year old Ben can’t be in the same place, but a 10 year old Ben could meet a 35 year old Sayid. Any individual’s perspective can only be in one place at one time, but can be in multiple different places over time.

Put another way, why couldn’t someone live nonlinearly? Instead of going 1974 –> 1975 –> 1976 –> 1977 —-> 2007, why not 1974 –> 2007 –> 1977? It can’t really happen — not without time travel — but if time travel exists (the sci-fi conceit here), why not?

Imagine if you asked someone in 1930 if a man could go into space or walk on the moon? Now ask someone in 1970 or 2000. There is a similar analogy in play.

I share the concern of character motivation at this juncture, and am left marveling at the forces that would have all our participants (or almost all), on the island they so wanted to leave. And, for example Juliet, those that stuck it out on the island when off (to the 70′s though) was just a sub ride away. Really am stuck on that. Loved the episode, as it played, but left disquieted by apparent disconnect of everyone together, for why.

Rewatched, in slo-mo and HD, Sun getting photo from Christian, and see something, at times looks a bit like Juliet, and at times like Hurley. Claire? She COULD have packed it on in three years.

What are we missing? Why the fuss over Ethan? Is there a reason this is a central concern? I/we are missing it. Should I care?

Agree that our reunited 815′ers fall into predictable interpersonal patterns a bit too readily after three years. Would predict more a prolonged open-mouth, dumbfounded amazement to not only be back, but back in ’77? That would take some serious acclimatization. Serious.

The Offical audio podcast today put to rest the Charlotte age issue. They goofed because the actress would not accept being as old as the script called for. So, the little redhead WAS Charlotte. So, they goof. Remember to factor that in when theorizing. AND remember on the Official podcast a couple-three years ago we were promised the writers were keeping things real, and would not be resorting to any far-out time travel schtick.

Nanners- good call on the lack of a Bentham visit for Sun, and her staying with the plane. DO think something connects there.

I love this show, and think that TV has been significantly elevated overall by this show. Expectations, and bar levels raised.

Who’s Jacob? Vincent? And will Sawyer and Jack rip into each other leaving Jacob to enjoy a Kate/Juliet threesome? Stay Lost.

When they were doing all those Hydra episodes, Sawyer and Kate were being forced to build a “runway”. Sawyer questioned, “Runway?” Juliette, “yeah for aliens”. Kate and Sawyer sure cleared out a considerable piece of real estate for the landing strip. And how did Ben know there were boats hidden on the beach? Ben knew he would need a runway and getaway boats for an upcoming episode, that’s why.

I enjoyed Namaste. Still beats anything else on TV by a mile. Am not enjoying Caesar and the bounty hunter woman — like them far less than Nikki and what’s-his-name, oh yeah, Paulo.

When Sun and Lupidis go to New Otherton and meet Christian, there are relics of the Dharma Initiative everywhere — Dharma logos on the yellow huts, signs that say “uniforms” in the intake center, etc. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think those things existed in the Others-controlled community. When we saw the Others’ community in the beginning of Season 3, there were no Dharma logos anywhere; it looked like they had made it their own.

Plus, I’ve heard that when Lupidis was trying to crash-land the Ajira plane, as his co-pilot made a mayday call, you can hear the numbers being transmitted. I need to watch the episode again, but if that’s true …
We know Danielle switched the numbers transmission to her own SOS call in the late 1980s (1988?).

The Ajira castaways are not in 1977, obviously, so I think they’re somewhere between the Purge and whenever it is that the Others settled into New Otherton (at some stage before 1988).

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/3cfb39ff4d6728d560e1e7b8c0bd8b39

I guess I need a nicer television. I am wondering if I can justify a high def tv to my dh, does missing important Lost clues classify as an emergency? My old tv is just not cutting it. If someone hadn’t mentioned it I would have never had seen it.

Lovethis podcast and board.

xxxWEST-SAYIDxxx

It’s a tough call for Juliet. She’s wanted to get off the island forever, but if your only way off was to a completely different year, would you take it? She’ll never see her family in any meaningful way for at least the next thirty years, and then she’ll be too aged to reunite with them without some splaining to do. If she stays on the island, is it a reasonable expectation that she’ll find a way to the future again and then can leave? She’s inscrutable, that Juliet! But it’s a difficult decision to make, and clearly one she’s been actively putting off for years now.

Could it have been Jacob? Or the island? Apologizing because she, more than anyone who landed in 1977, she wanted to be there with Jin. But her journey lead her to “2007 island” first for a reason.

I do hope they reunite. It was awful enough that the writers took away Charlie and Claire without telling us if they are together now. But Jin and Sun need to be together, just like Desmond and Penny.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1475-478.html

As far as the manifest, Juliette is told by Amy 2 male recruits dropped out and the tell Dr. Chang, she just didn’t him and changed the roster names for Hugo and Jack. Then sha had to go write up a revised roster adding Kate which took more time.

Great podcast, just 2 questions I would like to make:

1. Ethan was Horace and Amy’s son and part of the Dharma but it seems like he survived the purge and then joined Ben and the hostiles. That means that he agreed his parents to be killed in some way?

2. When the Ajira flight 316 disappeared, I think that someone from the media should notice that all of the Oceanic 6 were on board and are missing again – wouldn’t this raise questions? Does this mean that Widmore knows that they returned to the island?

I agree with Nel: Ben is a masterful plotter, I doubt that he was surprised by Sun’s attack on him. Ben doesn’t need anyone. He needed to get rid of her. There are multiple canoes — he’ll use another.

I agree with Kira: Jin taught a young Charlotte Korean. What a beautiful cyclicity!

Recall that dying Charlotte referred to a “crazy man.” Daniel is “gone” because he has gone mad. Perhaps he is, as some have conjectured, lost in time, the voice of Jacob, and needs “help.”

There has been some conjecture that Sun is Marvin Candle (Pierre Chang)’s child. But in teh episode when we first learn of the child (isn’t that with the masterful metaphor of the skipping record), that the child is referred to as a “him.”? Regardless, I’d wager that, as Matt from Ohio asserts, the child is Miles.

Someone in the room with Sun and Christian — ‘sgotta be Claire.

Regarding the Baby Ethan reveal: not necessarily the same person as Ethan Rom. In fact, I’d be surprised if they are the same person.

What a fantastic ride! All I can do is go with the series and let it take me where it will..

If she does, in fact, say “Jaraah,” that would make the most sense, seeing as how that’s Sayid’s last name, and he was in her custody. Thanks for clarifying.

bd

Loved when Sawyer stuck it to Jack with the whole “I’m in charge now speech” and then i thought it was funny when Jack looked relieved and said fine. Sawyer’s was shocked and got a very funny look on his face.

BTW, I put the closed captioning on and when the plane crashed the woman deputy said “Jaraah” not “Sarah”. Anybody recognise the name?

Well time to get in my Dharma van and pick up the kids from school. BBL

Are Juliet and Kate going to do some Foxy Boxing? The tension was great, and for once I wasn’t all that frustrated with the relationships being examined a bit.

I love when Christian Sheppard shows up. He told Sun that they had some work to do. Does that mean that they too are going to go back in time? Or is she going to be the way everyone gets back to present time?

Thanks for all the great work. You guys rock.

Sawyer is definitely over 30. I just re-watched season 1, and was reminded that he wrote his “Mr. Sawyer” letter in 1976.

I think Sun just rocks. Poor Ben, always taking a beating. Maybe we’ll see young Ben suffering beatings etc to manipulate people.

I’m waiting to see why Sawyer, et al decided to stay in 77? Did Daniel discover something? Is he off Island working on his theories?

And just how central is the addition of Lapidus to the Oceanic 6? He was supposed to be the original pilot.

I thought the tree through the co-pilot was a shout out to the original Pilot (played by Gregg Grinburg).

Hope Juliet goes all ‘mama’ bear on Jater. both parts.

Personally I really love the Time Travel. It’s so much fun.

Also, the most plausible reason for La Fleur seemingly having no awareness of Ben on the island is that Ben and father just arrived. Unless the writers offer a better explanation next week.

I agree with Nels (or is it Rebecca) that Farraday isn’t physically gone but rather gone crazy as implied by Charlotte when she talked about a crazy man in the past that scared her.

Regarding the rundown condition of the buildings in the Aljira flight time frame, that could be the passage of three years since the O6 left. Or maybe the Losties in 1977 will somehow radically change the passage of time and events in a way that disproves the claim made throughout the series that you cannot change things.

I also agree with him about how he feels about the show.

Appreciate what you have now, at least it’s not Heroes.

Sun, Ben, Locke and Frank didn’t go back to 1977 for reasons of a lack of “destiny” as Locke would put it, and that is that. The rest had to to shape what is happening today. And i totally agree that what happened with the Losties in ’77, always happened in ’77. I don’t think there is anything changed at all.

And as for why “othersville” is so damaged, it’s because of Smokey destroying it when Ben allowd it to last season.. I know the old DI pictures are still up on the wall, but that doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t have been anyways, maybe it was because the room was only used for storage or maybe it was because you have the likes of Ben, Ethan and maybe Amy (being the older lady in the book club in season 3) having DI roots and not taking pictures of themselves or their parents down. I just think it would have been unreal if any of the Losties would have went in that room in the period that “Locke’s people” lived there and saw that photo, what a crazy twist to the show that would have been.

One more thing…
I’ve seen a lot about people being frustrated with the baby Ethan reveal, because they were hoping for the birth of a more central character like Desmond, or a more mysterious character like someone we haven’t met yet who could not have been born without Juliet’s time traveling. My only issue with this latter case is that we’ve heard Daniel say from the beginning that we cannot change what has already happened in the future…if someone dies, you’re not able to stop it even if you go back and do everything in your power. The universe course-correcting is only part of it – the point is that Juliet, Sawyer, Jin and Miles always went back to 1974 to become part of the Dharma Initiative, Sawyer always saved Amy from the Others, Juliet always assisted with Ethan’s birth. Speculation about whether Amy would have survived and then gone on to be Horace’s wife and have his son makes no difference – Because it always happened. As cool as it would have been for the baby to be some important character we will meet in later episodes, it was Ethan because it had to be.

I can’t help but now think that Ben actually set up Lapidus and Sun to go to the big island on purpose. He rarely seems to make such a poor move so perhaps he knows something more than he is leading on. Although I’m convinced he does think that Locke is truly dead.

Ethan turning to an “Other” might be why the children are important to the Others. Ethan seems to be the only baby born on the island so that may make him “special” in some way compared to those who have been shuttled off in the sub to give birth off the island.

Jack is certainly going to screw things up for LeFleur and gang and that’s what will progress the story into more dire straits. How that is going to affect “The Incident” is going to be interesting.

Faraday is “gone” according to Sawyer. I’m sure he meant mentally gone and we’ll have the tie-in to him showing up under the Orchid soon.

For the 2007 island stuff with Sun and Lapidus, it would seem that the 3 years since Ben released Smokie into the barracks has turned it into a ghostown, which is why nobody seems to have gone back to live there. They’ll still be at the Temple, most likely.

Anyway, certainly not a bad episode IMHO and definitely sets the groundwork for the future playing board. I think we almost know where and when everybody is (sans Desmond/Penny) now.

I hope that TT is over soon, I think that will end up hurting the show if it goes on for much longer.

Does this mean there are multiple versions of the island out there? Or that what Frank and Sun are experiencing a version of the island as a result of the other 815ers doings?
How on earth did Ben know the outriggers would be there? Only way is that they landed in a time that Ben would know that they existed.

My brain hurts trying to figure out the logic behind all of this…

I hope one day they come out with the complete history of the island- unabridged.

How did the others know to create a runway? Did they somehow know that the Ajira flight would need it?

Cat, you wrote:
“As someone mentioned above, we need to find out how Ethan went from a darma baby to a hostile and what is with the name.”
Probably the same way Ben did. There may have been several Dharma folks recruited. We’ve already seen via Pierre Chang that names aren’t always what they seem.

You also mentioned:
“I was surprised to see young Ben and am a bit concerned that Sawyer, as head of security, didn’t know that young Ben was there.”
I was of the opinion that maybe ironically Ben wound up on the same sub that Jack/Kate/Hurley were on.

I do wonder why Sun didn’t wind up with the other Ajira folks. The whole thing is becoming very (here’s my hangup again) “Donnie Darko” esque where there seems to be people going back in the past to “influence” the future. I’m intrigued to see how this all plays out.

As much as I like LaFleur Sawyer, Jack (Hurley?) does have a point… they’ve had a comfortable life but if the Incident and Purge happen, that’s not saying much. And yet Jack for all his struggles to get home winds up on the island 30 years earlier (when his father was likely his age, and perhaps involved with the island as welll…).

I wonder whether Ben’s list of “the good people” and compulsion for tracking down the 815 survivors will relate to his time with Dharma and whose names he remembers.

Another thing nagging me is the “war” that Widmore told Locke is coming. Everybody on message boards seems to think this refers to a war between Ben and Widmore or Dharma and The Others, but I am wondering if it is something much bigger than that. I wonder if it ties into the repeated statements of “God help us all.” Could there be a much bigger, world war coming? Could it be a holy war – religion-based? Or a nuclear war?

I like Claudia’s idea of Pierre Chang’s baby being baby Sun. I thought the baby’s mother looked a little like Sun, in fact, and if Sun’s already on the island in 1977 that does seem like it could explain why she didn’t flash to that time with the other 815ers on 316.

(Oh, and I had a hard time with the opening scene of the crash seeing as I am flying somewhere tomorrow! I avoided the show altogether for the first season and a half because I didn’t want to watch anything to do with a plane crash!)

I did like the episode, though – whether or not it was more of a set-up, I think there were some great moments. Young Ben was indeed super-creepy. I’m wondering about the timeline with him – Is his meeting with Sayid before or after his conversation with long-haired Richard in the jungle? I wouldn’t be surprised if his interest in Sayid is based on his desire to join the Others and free himself of his father’s judgment and resentment…

I do love that Sawyer is the second person to comment on Jack’s fashion choices – in 316, Kate sees Christian’s shoes and assumes that he’ll be wearing them on the plane (“Wouldn’t hiking boots be a better choice?”) and then when Sawyer is passing around outfits to the “new recruits”, he tells Jack that a suit is “not exactly Island wear” – Classic!

One more thought, though – It did bother me a little that after three years and everything these characters have been through, Jack and Sawyer couldn’t help returning to their old dynamic like, as soon as they meet again. Sawyer asks how Locke died, and Jack brushes it off saying “it doesn’t matter” – Sawyer says he “has the work assignments covered” and Jack ends up being a janitor – Jack challenges Sawyer for authority only to have Sawyer put him right back in his place…I don’t know, I’m just so tired of that. Though I would certainly take Sawyer’s improvising over Jack’s planning any day…

Best line of the episode was Ben’s “How’d that work out for everyone?” after Frank reminds Sun that he came on a boat full of commandos whose only mission was to get Ben.
Too funny

As someone mentioned above, we need to find out how Ethan went from a darma baby to a hostile and what is with the name.

I was surprised to see young Ben and am a bit concerned that Sawyer, as head of security, didn’t know that young Ben was there.

The Swan construction was very interesting. Radzinsky – the scientist who goes nuts. Painting the map on the ceiling and making edits to the orientation film perhaps? Before he goes nuts and kills himself?

If you go back to the Season 3 Episode ‘Not In Portland’, there is a scene in which Carl is in Room 23… If you look at the video he is being forced to watch BACKWARDS its actually English, and if you read it the Anagram says,

“Only fools are enslaved by space and time” If you read it as a anagram it says,
“Bones of Nadlers may lay lost deep in cave”

To me this indicates that Rose and Bernard are indeed our Adam and Eve, being that Nadler is their last name! The stones they had with them can indicate one another. How they came to be there, is something I wonder if we will find out.

*****************************

Looks like our Producers, and Writers kind of knew what they were getting themselves into after all

xxxWest-Sayidxxx

Love the podcast. Long time listener first time posting.
What was up with that image that we saw behind Sun?
It makes sense in a lost sort of way if it is Claire, after all we assume that she has been with her father this whole time. I also have to wonder why Sun did not travel back like the rest. The thing that comes to mind is if you kind of think about it Ben didn’t go back in time when there is a young Ben on the island. Charlotte’s body disappears and there is a young Charlotte in the 70′s. I am starting to think that maybe Sun could have been the child we saw early on in the season with Dr. candle ( or whatever his name is. ) Maybe there is no way that they can interact with one another there for cannot be in the same time line. I know that we saw Locke in 2007 in the same time line as Locke in 2004 so this maybe a far stretch but we will have to see. Also I have never been a Sawyer fan but I like this new Sawyer the one thing that I don’t like is that we have seen in the past that when our losties are redeemed they die so I don’t want sawyer to be a complete hero. One more thing I am starting to suspect that they are going to wrap up the Rose and Bernard story in a neat little package as they did with Rousseau, I think that it is obvious
That they are the ones in the caves our Adam and Eve. The black and white rock I think that since they had already lived there they went back and they eventually die. Well that’s all for now. Keep up the good work.

If my island history is correct, the barracks were built and used by the dharma initiative, but after the purge, they were eventually taken over by the “hostiles” or “others” and it became othersville. Later the others abandoned othersville, and locke and his group moved in and it became eggtown. Over the years different groups have moved into the barracks and made it their own.

In this episode, we see Sun and Lapidus enter the barracks and it felt really strange. like a ghost town. And the strangest part was when they went into the new arrivals orientation room. It didn’t look like a room that had gone through 30+ years of use, with several different owners. It looked like it had been left exactly the way it was when the DI were purged, and then just left that way to rot. Complete with 30 year old photos on the wall and welcome signs still swinging in the breeze.

I had been thinking that Sun, Lapidus, Ben and the rest of flight 316 stayed in 2008 while the O6 (minus Sun) flashed into the past. But when the turbulence started it was night, and when they started to crash, it was suddenly day. That and the distinct “ghost town” feeling makes me wonder. What year are the 316ers in?

My only concern with the way things are going is that, for the moment at least, the Losties have no direction. There is no crisis, no mission, and while it’s understandable, it puts them in a very risky position in terms of the story. Even in next week’s preview, there is little to indicate much in the way of plot advancement; rather, we just see more of the same dissension and relational conflict that they’ve been struggling with all along. Sure, that’s a large part of what makes the show so great, but as it stands, nobody has any clue why they had to return or what the next step is. And no matter how much thinking Sawyer does, it’s still not going to reveal their reason for being there. Daniel or Christian may help with that. The “war” predicted by Widmore will undoubtedly bring some focus back, and I have full faith in the writers to keep things interesting. Just thought I’d mention it, though.

I’d like to think so. And Yes Ethan was huge. Who’s to say that Ethan was telling the truth about his last name “Rom”