For the gears of “LOST” to turn, you need some nuts and bolts — not sexy, but necessary. Tonight’s episode polished off the inevitable reunification with Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid in 1977, and laid out how things went with the Ajira Airlines survivors in the distant future. Basically, everyone was plotted neatly on a map to make clear the movements and machinations to come. “Namaste” offered few surprises, then, but was still meaty and enjoyable.
Jen’s favorite moment? In her words, “It was good to see Sawyer take that sanctimonious jackass down a peg or two.” Definitely a great back and forth between Sawyer and Jack. It would be very much like Sawyer to have rehearsed that little speech, mind you, but it paid off. It’s a pity that there’s no way in hell Jack will be able to resist forcing himself into the thick of things. I wager he’ll go off script as soon as next week, simply to spite Sawyer, and send things spiraling out of control.
I loved Frank and Sun’s eerie visit to the main island, from the smoke monster-ish rustling on the dock to Christian Shephard’s tour of the dilapidated processing center. The door blowing open with a cloud of smoke was a nice touch. I like how Sun learned that over 30 years separate her from her husband, as well as Christian’s suggestion that reunification may still lie ahead. The elder Shephard does seem to have a fondness for abandoned and decaying spaces, and I’m enjoying pondering what he’s been up to on the island since Locke turned the frozen donkey wheel.
We finally meet Radzinski, a guy who Jen says reminded her of “Comic Book Guy” on The Simpsons. We see now that he was instrumental in constructing The Swan, the station in which he’ll ultimately end up going mad and killing himself. I’d love to learn the story of how he ends up inside, quarantined. I also love that he must have been ultimately successful in hiding The Swan from the “Others,” affirming that its existence was indeed a mystery to Ben and friends when we first found it in Season One.
Having Juliet meet baby Ethan was great, knowing as she does where his path ultimately leads. And Sayid meeting little Ben was fantastic. First, it demonstrates that little Ben has indeed been within the Dharma Initiative concurrent with our integrated Losties (suggesting that Sawyer and friends must’ve really kept their distance). Secondly, it’ll be interesting to see how Sayid interacts with a boy who grows up into a man that Sayid deeply despises.
Notes and Notions:
- The runway raises all sorts of questions. Did Ben and the Others anticipate the arrival of Ajira 316? So soon or even before the arrival of Oceanic 815? Radzinski suggests that the arrival of an airplane is unlikely, but not impossible, in 1977.
- Why is Sun in the future, and not with Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid in 1977? I previously thought it may have something to do with “the list” that Michael used in Season 2, but Sayid wasn’t on it.
- A leading fertility doctor ends up working as an automotive mechanic, and it’s cool and almost sexy. A spinal surgeon ends up a janitor, and it’s simply hilarious.
- Hurley’s reunion with Sawyer was great. “Kong. I actually missed that.” He also raises the spectre of “The Purge,” although I’m convinced that’s over a decade away. It’s “The Incident” that I’d be worried about.
- I was dismayed that Sun was apparently throwing her lot in with Ben… and stoked when she clobbered him. She delivered the line, “I lied,” with Ben-like perfection.
What did you think? Please comment below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LostLine at (808) 356-0127.
One other thing I am a little frustrated with is Ethan. If he was born in 1977 that would make him 27 years old in 2004 when the plane crashed. I don’t think that guy looked 27. Anyway no more complaints, I’m just pumped for next week now to see where some of this is going.
Dave,
I would say that Ben cared about the station but did not intervene because that station was important in regard to inputting the numbers so there wouldn’t be a major eletronic pulse, such as happened when Locke destroyed the computer. He had to know about it and what it was meant for or he wouldnt have inputted the numbers when Locke was trapped under the blast doors. The Pearl was used to monitor the other stations, including the Swan. So there is no way Ben could know about the Pearl and not know about the Swan. Remember, when Locke turned on the monitors at the Pearl it showed Jack walking in the Swan. Which brings me back to Ben knowing the Swans importance and keeping an eye on it but not initiating contact with the person inside of it.
What I just cannot wrap my brain around is that the island might exist in multiple times and locations. I don’t think it has jumped the shark at all… but the logic behind the setup is beyond me right now. The plane obviously jumped in SOME time, but it is unknown how much.
Does this mean there are multiple versions of the island out there? Or that what Frank and Sun are experiencing a version of the island as a result of the other 815ers doings?
How on earth did Ben know the outriggers would be there? Only way is that they landed in a time that Ben would know that they existed.
My brain hurts trying to figure out the logic behind all of this…
I hope one day they come out with the complete history of the island- unabridged.
Phil – I don’t think 316 TT at all. I think it’s implied that it crashed in the same time period it took off in. Jack and company “flashed” off the plane to 1977 while the plane just went down and crashed. That’s what I have taken from it any way.
I hope that TT is over soon, I think that will end up hurting the show if it goes on for much longer.
Actually , ben and sun might be in the mid 90’s, who knows
How did Ethan become an Other … I think Paul and Amy were Others who had infiltrated the DI. Paul’s execution, and Amy’s intended execution, were actually meant as a way to get them out of the DI and back to the Others, since somehow the Others can be reincarnated after being shot (remember when Bea shot Mikhail?). That’s why Richard wanted Paul’s body and Amy so readily agreed, and also why Paul had an ankh. I think Amy knows Paul is alive, but he is with the Others, and perhaps the baby is even Paul’s if she snuck out to meet him. Before the Purge, the Others will get Amy and Ethan out, and Ethan will get Paul’s last name, which I bet is Rom.
Rebecca in Copenhagen: an earlier episode set up Ben as being unconscious and the Ajira folk going through the buildings so having them meet Locke right after the crash wouldn’t fit the timeline since we now know that Ben actually wasn’t injured by the crash itself but by Sun instead. The showdown between Ben and Locke is coming soon, I’m sure though.
I can’t help but now think that Ben actually set up Lapidus and Sun to go to the big island on purpose. He rarely seems to make such a poor move so perhaps he knows something more than he is leading on. Although I’m convinced he does think that Locke is truly dead.
Ethan turning to an “Other” might be why the children are important to the Others. Ethan seems to be the only baby born on the island so that may make him “special” in some way compared to those who have been shuttled off in the sub to give birth off the island.
Jack is certainly going to screw things up for LeFleur and gang and that’s what will progress the story into more dire straits. How that is going to affect “The Incident” is going to be interesting.
Faraday is “gone” according to Sawyer. I’m sure he meant mentally gone and we’ll have the tie-in to him showing up under the Orchid soon.
For the 2007 island stuff with Sun and Lapidus, it would seem that the 3 years since Ben released Smokie into the barracks has turned it into a ghostown, which is why nobody seems to have gone back to live there. They’ll still be at the Temple, most likely.
Anyway, certainly not a bad episode IMHO and definitely sets the groundwork for the future playing board. I think we almost know where and when everybody is (sans Desmond/Penny) now.
Hi Nels –
My guess is that Ben is discovered by Cesar and the rest of the Ajira survivors as they begin to investigate the island and that’s when he’s brought to the “infirmary” or whatever they called it. He was definitely around when Frank make his initial comments, so I figured that Locke would be too…although perhaps he was somewhere in the jungle on his back, waiting to wake up so a camera could take an extreme close-up shot of his eye 😉 I’m less concerned with the showdown between Locke and Ben, but I was hoping to get some of Locke and the other Losties in this episode. Maybe next time…
One more thing…
I’ve seen a lot about people being frustrated with the baby Ethan reveal, because they were hoping for the birth of a more central character like Desmond, or a more mysterious character like someone we haven’t met yet who could not have been born without Juliet’s time traveling. My only issue with this latter case is that we’ve heard Daniel say from the beginning that we cannot change what has already happened in the future…if someone dies, you’re not able to stop it even if you go back and do everything in your power. The universe course-correcting is only part of it – the point is that Juliet, Sawyer, Jin and Miles always went back to 1974 to become part of the Dharma Initiative, Sawyer always saved Amy from the Others, Juliet always assisted with Ethan’s birth. Speculation about whether Amy would have survived and then gone on to be Horace’s wife and have his son makes no difference – Because it always happened. As cool as it would have been for the baby to be some important character we will meet in later episodes, it was Ethan because it had to be.
I think that Jin, in the past, taught Charlotte and possibly other DI kids Korean, which is why, in the future, he looks to her to translate.
Also, there’s NO WAY that Saywer, Juliette, at al don’t recognize young Ben (first of all, they couldn’t have done a better casting job!). I’m sure they’re watching him closely (unless he just showed up, but then a new kid in a new place isn’t going to visit a “criminal” his first day, he’s been there a while)…
I definitely think the Losties can and will change the future as we know it. Maybe Sun, as a few peeps mentioned, is Pierre’s child and was given to Sun’s Korean parents as an infant, to protect her or something (a la Heroes).
Jack, and probably Kate, will screw up multi-relationships. Jack will make a power play and Kate will undoubtedly get in Juliette’s face (hope J opens a can of whoop ass on her!)
Anyway, I’ve been watching the 2nd season repeats on G4 and remember why I love the show..
I LOVED last night’s episode “Namaste”! The show drives me crazy, but I enjoy that! Having all the twists and turns in the plot are great and keep me interested. I am SO bored with other shows after all the wild ride LOST has given us and when it’s run is over after next season, I hope I have all the seasons on dvd to relive.
I think Sun, Lapidus and the 316ers are all in the future or some altered present. The way the DHARMA buildings look creeped me out, just seeing Ben’s office when we saw Ilana and Caesar in it the first time, much LESS seeing the lights on the dock all rusted and fallen over and the signs swinging on the buildings from a single link of their hangers… Christian being there to show Sun where/when Jin is in relation to where/when she and the 316ers are….. Sheesh, what a ride!
I really enjoyed Sawyer showing Jack who is boss now and I hope it stays that way, myself! I never liked Jack and I always have felt he is way too controlling. I am hoping Jack and Kate leave Sawyer and Juliet alone and let them continue on with their relationship, but I have a feeling now that they are back, the whole Love Quadrangle or whatever the heck it is will only come back into play again…
I also missed Locke last night and am looking forward to seeing him soon.
Young Ethan may have been kidnapped by the hostiles as Ben kidnapped Alex and the kids from 815 were kidnapped. So many mysteries, so little time!
I Love LOST!
Thanks for the great podcast and blog, Jen and Ryan!
no way, no how Sun is Chang’s baby. It’s Miles, 110%. There would be no purpose to them alluding to the fact that Miles was on the Island before, if he were not, and it’s typical Lost writers to have the close up of the baby in the 1st episode of season 5 and shortly thereafter explain that Miles had been there before, almost as long as Charlotte. And if you remember this season’s opening scene, we see baby Miles, then we see Daniel with the DI shortly afterwards, it makes total sense.
Sun, Ben, Locke and Frank didn’t go back to 1977 for reasons of a lack of “destiny” as Locke would put it, and that is that. The rest had to to shape what is happening today. And i totally agree that what happened with the Losties in ’77, always happened in ’77. I don’t think there is anything changed at all.
And as for why “othersville” is so damaged, it’s because of Smokey destroying it when Ben allowd it to last season.. I know the old DI pictures are still up on the wall, but that doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t have been anyways, maybe it was because the room was only used for storage or maybe it was because you have the likes of Ben, Ethan and maybe Amy (being the older lady in the book club in season 3) having DI roots and not taking pictures of themselves or their parents down. I just think it would have been unreal if any of the Losties would have went in that room in the period that “Locke’s people” lived there and saw that photo, what a crazy twist to the show that would have been.
also one more thing, how can we ever say there is a bad episode of Lost anymore? 3 years from now we will say we would KILL for even a bad Lost episode. You will remember this show and how it made you feel the rest of your life, enjoy it while it lasts, and think how much fun it will be to watch the DVD’s of seasons 1-6 in a row someday. You will be catching something new every single day!
Appreciate what you have now, at least it’s not Heroes.
I totally agree with Matt from Ohio about the barracks:
Plus remember the barracks have been deserted for 3 years now, that’s why other’s ville looks like a ghost town.
I also agree with him about how he feels about the show.
Why do several people believe young Ben is creepy? Personally I don’t see it. He seems almost innocent to me. Yeah, his dad is a jerk. But we haven’t seen young Ben take actions that would indicate to us that he was always a manipulative, horrible person. My theory is that it will be some action (or inaction) by our Losties back in 1977 that will be a contributing factor in transforming young Ben into evil older Ben.
Also, the most plausible reason for La Fleur seemingly having no awareness of Ben on the island is that Ben and father just arrived. Unless the writers offer a better explanation next week.
I agree with Nels (or is it Rebecca) that Farraday isn’t physically gone but rather gone crazy as implied by Charlotte when she talked about a crazy man in the past that scared her.
Regarding the rundown condition of the buildings in the Aljira flight time frame, that could be the passage of three years since the O6 left. Or maybe the Losties in 1977 will somehow radically change the passage of time and events in a way that disproves the claim made throughout the series that you cannot change things.
Follow up to my earlier theory that Amy/Paul were others … Ethan probably is Paul’s son, and would have been born to them in the Others camp, but Sawyer interfered and Amy had to go back to the DI. But if she did sneak out and Ethan is Paul’s child, that would be another example of the universe course-correcting.
Sorry, another thought..how does it work that probably NONE of them were even born in 1974 (are any of them over 30?)..
Well Kira, John Locke went back in time in the island flashes to a year or so before he was born. Remember he told Richard Alpert he would be born in a year or two?
I’m not sure when they were born had anything to do with the flashes. Remember also, the back of the statue they saw. That had to be a LONNNG time ago, as Miles said when he saw it after they’d also seen in that very quick flash that it was before the well John went down was even dug.
Time paradoxes give me a headache, but LOST is my Excedrin LOL!
I can understand the abandon buildings, but who took the time to board them up? Smokie? Christian?
I want the enhanced repeats back! So many things I miss only seeing the epse once on broadcast tv and not being able to record it! (Still haven’t figured out how to record digital stations with my old vcrs and not sure I even CAN! *sigh*). I missed the woman behind Sun, didn’t pay much attention to the buildings being boarded up and almost missed Smokey poofing out of the jungle at Sun and Lapidus! Am looking fwd to the dvd release if I can afford it! Still need to get season 4, much less 5 when IT’s available! LOL!
Rebecca: you wondered where Locke was when Lapidus gathered the survivors of 316, he was supposed to be dead in a coffin and was probably off being resurrected.
I think Sun just rocks. Poor Ben, always taking a beating. Maybe we’ll see young Ben suffering beatings etc to manipulate people.
I’m waiting to see why Sawyer, et al decided to stay in 77? Did Daniel discover something? Is he off Island working on his theories?
And just how central is the addition of Lapidus to the Oceanic 6? He was supposed to be the original pilot.
I thought the tree through the co-pilot was a shout out to the original Pilot (played by Gregg Grinburg).
Hope Juliet goes all ‘mama’ bear on Jater. both parts.
Personally I really love the Time Travel. It’s so much fun.
Caesar appears to be taking over the leadership position of the AJIRITES. Soon as the Frank Lapidus tries to assert himself to calm down the Ajira survivors, Caesar immediately shouts him down with alternatives. So, now that Frank has left the Ajira survivors, it looks like Caesar will take over as the chief of this new tribe. This is most likely bad news for John Locke, who was prophesized by Walt’s dream, that he was wearing a suit, while a mob of people wanted to do him harm.
Kira,
Sawyer is definitely over 30. I just re-watched season 1, and was reminded that he wrote his “Mr. Sawyer” letter in 1976.
I am leaning toward the ’77ers being involved in “The Incident” and not the purge. Then again the Swan hasn’t even been built yet. Plus Richard Alpert knows Sawyer was not Dharma so why would Sawyer or any of his friends be in any danger from Alpert or the “Hostiles”. How old was Ben when the purge happened? I just assumed he was in how 30’s but it seems as though he was in his mid 20’s [if we go by John’s dream in “Cabin Fever” where Horace said he’d been dead for 12 years in 2004]. If that is the case they have 15 years before anything purge-related happens anyway. Ethan as Horace’s baby was a big let down for me. I’m really thinking Faraday is Jacob now. It’s looking like Sayid might be looking to become a martyr before long.
I thought this episode was really a dud. I spent most of the time wondering where it was going, what the characters’ motivations were. In seasons 1-3, the Oceanic survivors were trying to get off the island. In season 4, they were trying to get back. What are they trying to do now? What are their goals? I found myself really frustrated watching Namaste.
I think Rebecca hits the nail on the head re: Ethan. But my question is how quickly/perfectly was the universe able to course-correct? Amy should have been kidnapped by the Others until Sawyer intervened. Had he not been there, she would’ve presumably had a baby named Ethan with an Other (Mr. Rom, perhaps.) Instead, Sawyer saves her and brings her back to Dharma. The universe takes three years to find Ethan a new dad, then a while longer to bring him back to the Others, but he does get there.
I enjoyed the episode very much. @Knives — 14J = 23? How? J is the tenth letter of the alphabet. I will have to re-watch the Sun and CS scene to look for the shadowed person mentioned above. I too am a little dismayed to learn the baby is Ethan. The actor playing Ethan Rom is NOT in his twenties. I, probably like most of you, went to Lostpedia to type in Ethan’s name when his name was revealed; could there be a second Ethan on (or off) the island from Ethan Rom. I know Lostpedia said Ethan was Amy and Horace’s son, do we know that from any other episode besides Namaste? As for the young Ben, Sayid’s guard knew the kid well enough to simply allow him to bring a sandwich to the “hostile”; he had to be there a while. I look forward to the podcast and future comments.
Enjoyable episode, my quick thought is that Sun and Ben are not with the O6 because they are BOTH in that time zone already! Young Ben is there as we have seen and I think Sun must also already be in 1977. I think she is Changs daughter. The rules of time must be that you cant be in the same place twice so Ben and Sun are stuck in 2007. i’ll also go one step further and go out on a limb saying that Chang either is Mr Paik or at least hands Sun over to Mr Paik at a young age.
I know the timing doesn’t work at all, but I couldn’t help thinking when Sawyer told Jack they were in 1977… OMG Jack’s going to become his own Grandpa! Then I started counting and thought better of it. But for a second there I was laughing my head off.
This episode was great. I am so glad that we got to see Young Ben. He showed his early interest in the forbidden, and perhaps that is why he is always stirring up trouble. It seems like he has always wanted to do what is not supposed to be done. “Are you a hostile?” he asked. Maybe he was thinking, “Because I want to go live with you. The people here stink. Especially my father.” Will Ben break Sayid out of jail? That would be awesome.
Are Juliet and Kate going to do some Foxy Boxing? The tension was great, and for once I wasn’t all that frustrated with the relationships being examined a bit.
I love when Christian Sheppard shows up. He told Sun that they had some work to do. Does that mean that they too are going to go back in time? Or is she going to be the way everyone gets back to present time?
Thanks for all the great work. You guys rock.
A quick question, how did pierre have Jack’s name and assignment when Julliet hadn’t gotten there yet with the new list? She came in when Kate was being processed, which was after Jack.
Loved when Sawyer stuck it to Jack with the whole “I’m in charge now speech” and then i thought it was funny when Jack looked relieved and said fine. Sawyer’s was shocked and got a very funny look on his face.
BTW, I put the closed captioning on and when the plane crashed the woman deputy said “Jaraah” not “Sarah”. Anybody recognise the name?
Well time to get in my Dharma van and pick up the kids from school. BBL
Hey, Carol:
If she does, in fact, say “Jaraah,” that would make the most sense, seeing as how that’s Sayid’s last name, and he was in her custody. Thanks for clarifying.
bd
makes sense! I can’t believe I forgot that Brandon.
Oh, so many thoughts! Yes, the episode seemed to plod along, but that’s because our interest is so highly charged — we want more answers because we have so very man puzzle pieces that we don’t know how to fit together.
I agree with Nel: Ben is a masterful plotter, I doubt that he was surprised by Sun’s attack on him. Ben doesn’t need anyone. He needed to get rid of her. There are multiple canoes — he’ll use another.
I agree with Kira: Jin taught a young Charlotte Korean. What a beautiful cyclicity!
Recall that dying Charlotte referred to a “crazy man.” Daniel is “gone” because he has gone mad. Perhaps he is, as some have conjectured, lost in time, the voice of Jacob, and needs “help.”
There has been some conjecture that Sun is Marvin Candle (Pierre Chang)’s child. But in teh episode when we first learn of the child (isn’t that with the masterful metaphor of the skipping record), that the child is referred to as a “him.”? Regardless, I’d wager that, as Matt from Ohio asserts, the child is Miles.
Someone in the room with Sun and Christian — ‘sgotta be Claire.
Regarding the Baby Ethan reveal: not necessarily the same person as Ethan Rom. In fact, I’d be surprised if they are the same person.
What a fantastic ride! All I can do is go with the series and let it take me where it will..
Hi guys
Great podcast, just 2 questions I would like to make:
1. Ethan was Horace and Amy’s son and part of the Dharma but it seems like he survived the purge and then joined Ben and the hostiles. That means that he agreed his parents to be killed in some way?
2. When the Ajira flight 316 disappeared, I think that someone from the media should notice that all of the Oceanic 6 were on board and are missing again – wouldn’t this raise questions? Does this mean that Widmore knows that they returned to the island?
Just speculating and maybe its been mentioned already but is it possible that Sun didn’t make the jump because she was not pregnant this time? There seems to be such attention to detail for recreating history that was a noticeble difference. Just pondering…
Sawyer was age 35 in Season 3 When Ben asked him before he put the “pacemaker” in Sawyer. So I’d say he is around 38. Why would they introduce another Ethan at this point, The baby is Ethan. Etan Looked older than 30, but so did Ben when the purge happened. He was supposed to be in his 20’s? yeah right. As Faraday has stated time moves differently on the island, maybe the island makes some people appear older than they are as well as other people appearing not to age [Richard Alpert].
As far as the manifest, Juliette is told by Amy 2 male recruits dropped out and the tell Dr. Chang, she just didn’t him and changed the roster names for Hugo and Jack. Then sha had to go write up a revised roster adding Kate which took more time.
I’d like to note, for what it’s worth, that when Christian pulled the picture of the 1977 team off the wall, there is a nail to the left, but no such 1978 team, so I think it’s safe to say Dharma ends here.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1475-478.html
I know after reading through all the comments I will have more to say. But the scene that made me call me friend to make sure she’s watching was the scene with Sun. First of all, wow she just will use anyone to get what she wants – just like Ben would- and this is making me love her character even more. Second the wispers in abandoned Dharma-ville [before Christian appeared], I can nearly swear the whispers said “Sorry, Sun”.
Could it have been Jacob? Or the island? Apologizing because she, more than anyone who landed in 1977, she wanted to be there with Jin. But her journey lead her to “2007 island” first for a reason.
I do hope they reunite. It was awful enough that the writers took away Charlie and Claire without telling us if they are together now. But Jin and Sun need to be together, just like Desmond and Penny.
Ok, nobody observed that Sun was the only person in the Oceanic 6 not visited by John, and she’s the only one of them who didn’t ‘jump’ backward. Has to be a connection there.
I thought I read everyone’s comments carefully, but I could have missed this. Regarding Ethan as an Other. I suppose the Others could have recruited the boy like they recruited Ben, but they also could have kidnapped him like they kidnapped Alex and tried to kidnap Aaron. We’ve seen him for one day; he could be gone by next week.
Aanndd… I just remembered the other thing I wanted to mention. Sawyer comes back all flustered about what to do with the O6 who showed up in his time. Juliet points out that there’s a submarine on its way. By the end of the show, you think, “Oh! She’s giving him a solution!” but at the time, I think she was mentioning to Sawyer that an incoming sub means an outgoing sub. I don’t know if that’s code for bringing up a touchy subject between them without bringing it up or not, but my first thought was that she was referring to people just leaving the place altogether. Maybe even her, too.
It’s a tough call for Juliet. She’s wanted to get off the island forever, but if your only way off was to a completely different year, would you take it? She’ll never see her family in any meaningful way for at least the next thirty years, and then she’ll be too aged to reunite with them without some splaining to do. If she stays on the island, is it a reasonable expectation that she’ll find a way to the future again and then can leave? She’s inscrutable, that Juliet! But it’s a difficult decision to make, and clearly one she’s been actively putting off for years now.
Just thought it was interesting to note that usually when we see Christian he is carrying a lamp, but last night he had a flashlight for the first time. Is this significant? Possibly.
xxxWEST-SAYIDxxx
Screencap of Sun with figure behind her, good catch by all of you, I missed it.
http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/3cfb39ff4d6728d560e1e7b8c0bd8b39
I guess I need a nicer television. I am wondering if I can justify a high def tv to my dh, does missing important Lost clues classify as an emergency? My old tv is just not cutting it. If someone hadn’t mentioned it I would have never had seen it.
Lovethis podcast and board.
Here’s a theory for you: The Ajira castaways aren’t in “the present†at all, they’re in the early 1980s.
When Sun and Lupidis go to New Otherton and meet Christian, there are relics of the Dharma Initiative everywhere — Dharma logos on the yellow huts, signs that say “uniforms” in the intake center, etc. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think those things existed in the Others-controlled community. When we saw the Others’ community in the beginning of Season 3, there were no Dharma logos anywhere; it looked like they had made it their own.
Plus, I’ve heard that when Lupidis was trying to crash-land the Ajira plane, as his co-pilot made a mayday call, you can hear the numbers being transmitted. I need to watch the episode again, but if that’s true …
We know Danielle switched the numbers transmission to her own SOS call in the late 1980s (1988?).
The Ajira castaways are not in 1977, obviously, so I think they’re somewhere between the Purge and whenever it is that the Others settled into New Otherton (at some stage before 1988).
The title said, “Thirty Years Later.” That would put the date at 2007 when Sun and Frank are greeted by Christian in Dharma Ghost Town. Sun has done something to “taint” her failed “rapture” from flight 316. Lots of 3’s being batted around.
When they were doing all those Hydra episodes, Sawyer and Kate were being forced to build a “runway”. Sawyer questioned, “Runway?” Juliette, “yeah for aliens”. Kate and Sawyer sure cleared out a considerable piece of real estate for the landing strip. And how did Ben know there were boats hidden on the beach? Ben knew he would need a runway and getaway boats for an upcoming episode, that’s why.
I enjoyed Namaste. Still beats anything else on TV by a mile. Am not enjoying Caesar and the bounty hunter woman — like them far less than Nikki and what’s-his-name, oh yeah, Paulo.
Last night was putting in the clutch, and shifting gears.
I share the concern of character motivation at this juncture, and am left marveling at the forces that would have all our participants (or almost all), on the island they so wanted to leave. And, for example Juliet, those that stuck it out on the island when off (to the 70’s though) was just a sub ride away. Really am stuck on that. Loved the episode, as it played, but left disquieted by apparent disconnect of everyone together, for why.
Rewatched, in slo-mo and HD, Sun getting photo from Christian, and see something, at times looks a bit like Juliet, and at times like Hurley. Claire? She COULD have packed it on in three years.
What are we missing? Why the fuss over Ethan? Is there a reason this is a central concern? I/we are missing it. Should I care?
Agree that our reunited 815’ers fall into predictable interpersonal patterns a bit too readily after three years. Would predict more a prolonged open-mouth, dumbfounded amazement to not only be back, but back in ’77? That would take some serious acclimatization. Serious.
The Offical audio podcast today put to rest the Charlotte age issue. They goofed because the actress would not accept being as old as the script called for. So, the little redhead WAS Charlotte. So, they goof. Remember to factor that in when theorizing. AND remember on the Official podcast a couple-three years ago we were promised the writers were keeping things real, and would not be resorting to any far-out time travel schtick.
Nanners- good call on the lack of a Bentham visit for Sun, and her staying with the plane. DO think something connects there.
I love this show, and think that TV has been significantly elevated overall by this show. Expectations, and bar levels raised.
Who’s Jacob? Vincent? And will Sawyer and Jack rip into each other leaving Jacob to enjoy a Kate/Juliet threesome? Stay Lost.
Ethan can’t be Paul’s son, it is 3 years later. Although I did think Paul was an other.
Also, the idea that you can’t exist in two time periods at the same time seems wrong to me. We see the Hatch light in one of the time flashes and we know what night this is. Sawyer, Locke and probably Juliette for that matter were all on the island on that night and in the time flash meaning there were 2 of each of them on the island at that time. I like Nanners Idea, that Sun was the only one not visited by Locke. I also like the idea that since Aaron [and possibly Walt] did not come back the results were unpredictable and this was just a roll of the dice. Although I don’t understand how it would be unpredictable if this all happened before, unless they know telling them the truth the O6 would NOT come back to the island. It kind of throws the “What happened, happened” line out the window then.
Nick from Southampton — really nice call on not having two Bens/Suns in the same place at the same time! I like it.
Phil R wrote:
“What I just cannot wrap my brain around is that the island might exist in multiple times and locations. I don’t think it has jumped the shark at all… but the logic behind the setup is beyond me right now. The plane obviously jumped in SOME time, but it is unknown how much.”
Phil, you and I exist in multiple times and locations. 12 hours ago I was asleep at home in bed. Now I’m slacking off at work five miles away. What we CAN’T do is be in two places at one time. We also can’t be thirty years older or younger than we are at the moment we’re whatever age… a 10 year old Ben and 40 year old Ben can’t be in the same place, but a 10 year old Ben could meet a 35 year old Sayid. Any individual’s perspective can only be in one place at one time, but can be in multiple different places over time.
Put another way, why couldn’t someone live nonlinearly? Instead of going 1974 –> 1975 –> 1976 –> 1977 —-> 2007, why not 1974 –> 2007 –> 1977? It can’t really happen — not without time travel — but if time travel exists (the sci-fi conceit here), why not?
Imagine if you asked someone in 1930 if a man could go into space or walk on the moon? Now ask someone in 1970 or 2000. There is a similar analogy in play.
Enter 77? 1977. Is there relevance?
xxxWEST-SAYIDxxx
Ben, I’m not sure it’s safe to say “Dharma ends” until the Purge, which happens in the mid-80s when Ben is an adult.
Before that, the Incident (a big electromagnetic discharge) has to occur. Lostpedia records that the blast door map dates the Incident in 1985–still eight years away for the returnees. You can see the image itself at http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident. If that’s the case, I can’t see (at this point) a way for the 1977ers to be directly involved in either the Incident or the Purge without more time-jumping.
I would very much like to agree with cat, that Sun’s not jumping back with the other four is simply a result of there not being enough similarity between this group and the group on Oceanic 815. As many commented a few weeks ago, there really were enormous differences, and it could be that Mrs. Hawking was right–it’s just less predictable this way.
Finally, Ryan, is Radzinski’s attitude about keeping the Swan a secret any real indication that it was still unknown by the Others in 2004? As has already been pointed out, it was in the Others’ best interests to leave someone in the hatch (clearly visible from the Pearl and known about by Ben) to keep pressing the button. Radzinski clearly survived the Purge, but was aware of what happened, as evidenced by the gas mask protocol passed on to Kelvin and Desmond. He clearly understood the importance of his post inside the Swan, and had to stay put. Rather than sacrifice one of their own people to the hatch, and rather than set up a system of button-pushing shifts, the Others saved time and effort by letting this one Dharma employee live, doing the work for them.