I think the Ben comment – I can’t control what comes out of the jungle – followed by Locke emerging from the jungle, was a play on words and foreshadowing Ben having to follow Locke, as portended by Alex/Smoke Monster.

Also, I think it was Ben who originally broke the rules of the Island by saving Alex and refusing to kill Russeou. The Island wanted them dead and Ben did not do it. Eventually they were both killed. Here Ben broke the rule of obeying the Island and began his quest to supplant Widmore. And explains why Ben finally admits he is the one who broke the rules.

Juliet is one of my favorite characters. But I believe now that she is in the 70′s she is a goner. This is why. Ben is obviously drawn to Juliet because she “resembles” someone “young Ben” was close to in the past (like the 70′s). This person is apparently deceased and would not shock me if it was in fact Juliet back in this time frame. Plus what a great catalyst to set Sawyer off.

What is the current “others” leader roster.
Whitmore
Ben
Locke
Walt?

Did Locke actually die in the initial plane crash in season one. Island hits the reset button on him which explains why he can walk.

Last one… Richard Alpert is actually a fanatic Ohio State Alumni and this is why he hates the Darma initiative since it is a University of Michigan research project. Ok, that was my cheap shot at UM as I am a Buckeye….

The Watchmen idea is interesting, because it definitely seems to be a big on ancient Egypt which led me to looking into Ozymandias (aka the Greek name of the Egyptian Ramesses II). And it turns out a fella named HORACE Smith wrote a poem called “Ozymandias” in 1818 and there are some really familiar images…

In Egypt’s sandy silence, all alone,
Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws
The only shadow that the Desert knows:
“I am great OZYMANDIAS,” saith the stone,
“The King of Kings; this mighty City shows
“The wonders of my hand.” The City’s gone,
Nought but the Leg remaining to disclose
The site of this forgotten Babylon.
We wonder, and some Hunter may express
Wonder like ours, when thro’ the wilderness
Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace,
He meets some fragments huge, and stops to guess
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place.

I just read “gigantic leg,” “nought but the leg remaining,” “forgotten Babylon,” some Hunter” (Locke?), “London,” “powerful but unrecorded race once dwelt in that annihilated place” and saw a lot of Lost. And the “Wolf in chace”… Ben! In Genesis, Benjamin (son of Jacob whose mother died giving birth to him) is described as a wolf: “Benjamin shall raven as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.”

Far-fetched, I know.

I remember that some time ago, Damon & Carlton said on the official Lost podcast (or in some other interview) that they didn’t care if the statue had four toes or six … just so long as there weren’t the normal five.

That tells me this is a mythical being/representation of their own creation. It may borrow from existing lore, but I don’t think the statue will be revealed to be a SPECIFIC Egyptian god or goddess.

I hope someone is able to find the interview spot; I bet it came just after we first saw the four-toed statue on Lost. Cheers!

At first I did not think that the statue was Bastet, but then I remembered that cats have four toes.

Let it Lie

What’s with the lie? I know that the whole point of lost is that people don’t ask questions, but I still don’t get why the Oceanic 6 had to lie. Jack said that it was because Widmore was trying to find the island and kill them – but did Jack think that Widmore was just going to believe his story and somehow call off his evil search to exploit the Island

WIDMORE – “I have spent 30 years looking for the island, and I wish to kill everyone on there!! Bwahahahah!”
JACK – “Um…there is no island. We crashed somewhere else.”
WIDMORE – “Oh. Guess that’s my mistake then. I’ll call off my 30 year search for the power of a time travelling island, and go back to making pregnancy testing kits. Sorry to have bothered you.”

So why did they lie? To keep everyone else on the island safe? But Widmore and Ben, the two people they know as dangerous, know all about the island anyway. Who were they keeping it safe from? And given the smoke monster, the Others, the sonic fence, the medusa spiders, the polar bears, the dynamite, the hatches, and the fact that the island freakin’ disappeared in front of them, what makes them think that they’re safe on the island anyway?

Of the 71 people who survived the crash, 36 have died, and about 20 are unaccounted for. That’s not great odds. Surely the best way to keep them safe would be to get the might of the worlds logistics to go and get them (remember, they don’t know anything about time loops, wormholes or Hawkings weird theories yet.) Jack says they have to lie, because Locke asks him to. But what the freak does Locke know? Locke says that they shouldn’t leave the island, but Jack doesn’t believe that to be true, yet he believes he has to lie about it?

And how come everyone believes the Oceanic Six?. The press conference was a cool scene, but why didn’t anyone ask about the Plane wreck, and why Charles Widmore (or Benjamin Linus) would plant one there? Internet/lost fans can be conspiracy nuts, I know, but surely a faked plane crash would set some alarm bells ringing with someone?

So why lie? If they told the truth, the worst that would happen would be that some people won’t believe them, and head out to find the island, and rescue their friends. Who knows what whoever found the island would do with it? And why do they care?

The alternative is to live with the stress of lying the whole time and end up a junkie/in a mental asylum/on the run with the kid you stole/working as an assassin/an evil Korean bitch bent on revenge/nicknamed Goober.

Jeremy Bentham we hardly knew ye.

Was it me, or was ‘the life and death of Jeremy Bentham’ the most pointless episode ever. It didn’t actually tell us anything we didn’t know already, except for the fact that Ben killed Locke. Although I guess it did tell us how rubbish Locke is at doing stuff.

Locke was so convinced that the O6 weren’t supposed to leave the island, and that they had to come back that he stayed behind on the island, went down a well, broke his leg, disrupted the space time continuum, ended up in Tunisia, and tracked down the oceanic six. Sounds like he really really wanted the O6 back on the island, doesn’t it? Surely he had some compelling argument to get them to come back

LOCKE “Hey Sayid, come back to the Island.”
SAYID “No thanks, ‘m enjoying hammering this nail into this bit of wood.”
LOCKE “No problem, call me if you change your mind.”

Not exactly a compelling argument and probably why we never saw John Locke working in politics. He did basically the same with the others, except Walt, who he didn’t actually ask to come back. What happened to the importance of the mission? It was only 15 minutes ago when Locke was telling everyone that this was the most important thing ever, and now he’s just giving up?

Now were this me, and I was told that if I didn’t bring them back, something terrible was going to happen to the world, I might enquire of Christian/Widmore/Ben what exactly this catastrophe would be so I could use it to persuade the Oceanic Six. Kate would be more inclined to listen to Lockes plea if she was told she had to come back or the world would turn to marshmallow (or whatever) rather than just “Because I have a feeling.” I mean seriously – what would it take you to take a flight you knew was going to crash? If one of your friends “had a feeling” that you weren’t goping to die in a horrible fireball, or get drowned and eaten by Sharks?

And why did Locke try and kill himself?

There are two answers. Firstly, he was so depressed that he thought he was such a loser, that he wanted to top himself. This is a weird decision, because a) he didn’t try very hard, and b) it’s not like he’s working to a time limit at the moment. He hadn’t even tried Sun (again, if it was so important to get them all back, why agree not to bring back Sun so easily?) He hadn’t asked Widmore for help yet.

The other reason might be because Alpert said he had to die in order to get them to come back. Now this is weird too. I’m not sure there are very many good reasons to kill yourself, but I’m damned sure “because a 1000 year old hippie in guyliner told me to” is anywhere near the top of the list. If you were going to kill yourself in order to convince someone to do something, surely you’d want at least some idea what was going to happen after you’ve carked it. It’s a mighty gamble just to hope it all works out fine. If dying is in Johns destiny, and I the islands plan for him, then surely its going to happen at some point anyway, so why accelerate the process? Why not just get a motorbike, a bottle o Jack Daniels, head to Vegas and go out with a bang? (Again, remember Locke isn’t on a time schedule here – the island is jumping in time, as it turns out, hes actually got 33 years to get them to go back before he hits present time on the island.)

And with Lockes death, we also have the compass problem. Remember the compass problem – like who gave the compass to whom first? Well it’s the same with Locke dying.

Alpert told Locke that he needed to die. How did Alpert know this? Well it stands to reason that Locke (or someone with Locke) told him after he returned to the Island. So if Locke told Alpert to tell Locke he needed to die, so when he comes back he can tell Alpert…..well it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Unless Alpert is messing around with Locke, in which it’s a really horrible practical joke.

Its all Bushes fault.

Another thing that has been skated over and not mentioned….I can’t believe no one has made a big deal out of the fact that THE US GOVERNMENT KNOWS ABOUT THE ISLAND. Back in the 50’s there were US Soldiers on the island. There was a hydrogen bomb. Now are we supposed to believe that the US Military just lost a platoon of soldiers and all their equipment, including an 8 megaton bomb, and just never bothered looking for it? Hydrogen bombs aren’t car keys, and not the sort of thing you don’t go looking for.

Anyway, this would mean that the Commander in Chief of the US Army (Eisenhower) would know about the Islands existence, and the existence of some Island natives who killed a US Army platoon. (A declaration of war…) This would logically mean that details of the Island are in the possession of the US government. I knew it would all come down to Bush in the end.

Wherefore art thou Juliet.

This one struck me after watching LaFleur. JULIET KNOWS WHAT THE CHUFF IS GOING ON. Juliet has lived with the others, and must know something about what is going on. She knows that Alpert is ‘really old’ – which means she must have asked at some point. So she must know what the deal is with Alpert. Are you telling me that this isn’t something that came up over dinner and a glass of Dharma Merlot during those three years with Dharma?

First time I have posted – never have enough time to read all the comments!

I was reading about the birth of Ben and now think that the fact that horus was there to save him was no coincidence, but in fact the same story line as Lock. Maybe, Ben was picked to be the leader from the word go and Horus was sent to save him….

re: the eyeliner comment, I think the writers might have thrown that in as a joke since they get so many comments about it, I have always felt that Sawyer asks the same questions the viewers do.

http://getlostpodcast.iimmgg.com/image/5ec86b30a63635da25c16b67748e0694

Doesn’t it look like it is holding a “walker”? The one’s that older people use to assist in their walking?

Looks like one to me.

Jaye Davidson in Stargate wasn’t Egyptian either…neither was Elizabeth Taylor in Cleopatra. I don’t think people even really know what ancient Egyptians really looked lke.

I also presume that the long-awaited reason for the Losties to be on the Island (oft mentioned by Locke), will turn out to be about stopping the Purge from taking place, despite the fact changing time is thought to be impossible.

Alex, maybe the pregnancy problems are with the “others” since Ben got rid of Dharma. Maybe this is the island’s way of punishing the others for the purge.

I can’t believe we are halfway through the season already, that went by so quickly. I am saving them all with “do not delete” status on my tivo so I can rewatch them all after the season finale. It takes so long for those DVD’s to come out.

Nice interview with Josh Holloway on the ABC Lost video podcast.

I mean to write that maybe the pregnancy problems arose AFTER The purge.
Maybe the gas that was used had a long lasting effect on the environment of the Barracks and it caused the current situation

Wow that’s such an intriguing statement. I’ve been wanting to watch that episode again. Now for even more reason.

That’s an interesting theory!

Below is a quote from the episode “Other Woman.”

“HARPER: So, Juliet, what do you think of Ben?

JULIET: He’s great. Uh, very smart… and intense. Challenging. He’s been really good to me.

HARPER: Of course he has. You look just like her. ”

What if the “her” isn’t Ben’s mother or Annie, but Juliette herself? Given when Juliette is now with the DI at the barracks, it’s possible young Ben will get to know our time traveling Juliette. It would explain his instant infatuation with her. It might even explain some of Ben’s obsession with fertility.

Just a thought!

I doubt it though, it seems too easy, but still just a thought :]

Also I agree- If Kate ruins Juliet and Sawyer I’ll pull out my hair hahaha

However, on this show we have time travel, resurrection and coming soon…. reincarnation.

Not to mention the fact that our reincarnated Jacob is trapped in course correction. Not supposed to be alive or dead because of Sawyer and Juliet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastet_(mythology)

However, all overlooked what I believe was the Key phrase of this episode
i.e. Horace telling Sawier that they are
«not exactly DHARMA MATERIAL …»
What the hell was Dharma material ? Scientists ?
Obviously LaFleur’s handling of Richard showed that he could be worthy of the DI
Still would have been nice to see a little more curiosity by Sawyier on the whereabouts of RA
However, Juliet did not reveal she was a doctor (why else would she act as a mechanic?)
One would think that Horace the Mathematican would have been interested by Daniel the Physicist … was it revealed?
or maybe Daniel simply thought he was better off the Island to continue his work
Was Dan already born to Ellie ? (and Widmore) and on the Island as a child ?
If he has left, we know he was back in the early 80′s when the Orchid was being built
So maybe he did not left and was just not shown in the 1977 days (too busy with equations…)
So the Flashies are still there 3 years later
Obviously Sawier has found a way to make himself useful for security
His knowledge of the Island must have helped and he must have gathered usefull information on the Hostiles

By the way, Ben’s father did not seem to be Dharma material
Horace was doing him a favour
If they were there between 1974 @ 1977
Sawier would have had to deal with Roger’s drunky behavior
Were they purposely left out of the episode? I dont think so
It would have been to tempting for the authors to hint at the Flashies encountering young Ben
However, when Roger & Ben get there, LaFleur would be the right person to kick Roger’s butt and straighten him out, as weel as provide some more guidance to young nerdy Ben’s education.
Would it ultimately lead to a better relationship between Ben and his father, thus torpedoing the purge?

Another important event in this episode
The Flashies have ALTERED HISTORY
by killing the two Hostiles and saving Amy (from kidnapping or death?)
Her baby was not meant to be born from Horace
Who will be that young 27 yo in 2004 ? Wouldnt he have been purged also? Unless he was sent out of the Island…
Will history continue to be altered ?

Richard was still not aging
Have you noticed that RA seems to be appearing at history-changing times
Like when he rescued John who had been shot in the leg… still with the torch
However, it seems that he did belong to htis 1974 period (according to Horace) and was the leader of the Hostiles
So when was Widmore leading the Hostiles ? (for 30 years?)

Regarding the airdrops in current 2004 times…
I think that Ben having taken over after the purge kept things (relationship with the outside world) in a business-as-usual format
Deliveries must have been arranged through the Lamp Post
One might think that a number of Others came to the Island after the purge Tom Ethan Goodwin Mikhail (and Juliet) seemed to have lives outside the Island prior to joining later

Finally
getting to the O3 shall we call them Backies ?
Remember that Kate may be pregnant with a little Sheppard … (Aaron’s cousin)
What about Sayid ?
Will he be captured by the Hostiles or found by Lafleur’s security ?
Lots of stuff to juggle during the next 2 weeks
It seems that the crashed A316 story of 2007 will parallel that of the stranded 70′s Flashies and Backies for next few episodes

I may not have sold you on my Walt/Abbadon theory, but here’s one that’s really going to bake your noodle: I think the “incident” that Pierre Chang referred to is that a polar bear escaped his cage and turned the donkey wheel, dislodging the island from time and it has been moving ever since. It might sound a bit too comedic, but how else would you explain Charlotte finding that polar bear in Tunisia some 30 years later? I think we have a winner here.

Also, what’s up with Harper (Goodwin’s psychologist wife) – is she for real, or was that smokey manifesting itself? But I know, it was last season, but I just rewatched that episode (where they went to the Tempest and Charlotte & Juliet had a chick fight) and Harper in the jungle creeped me out!

1. We were introduced to Ray, Jack’s grandfather in 316. I think that was a significant inclusion on the part of the writers.
2. We also know that Locke’s mother had an affair with an older man.
3. Jack needed to give Locke something of Christian’s so Locke could go as Christian’s proxy. Perhaps carrying on the line in some way?
4. The Shepherds seem linked to the island’s mythos and we know that Locke is, as well.

Other thoughts: I am really not a shipper and I didn’t think I’d like Sawyer and Juliette together. But I have to say, it makes sense. Both are not above deceiving a little to survive (not to mention they’re very good at it). Yet, they have big hearts and are self sacrificing.

Jack and Kate? They also seem self absorbed in their thoughts and actions. I didn’t appreciate how they treated Locke in The Life and Death. Ugh.

Last comment: I’m SO happy Sawyer finally commented on Alpert’s eyeliner. I’ve been waiting for that since he was introduced!

I know Sawyer-Kate had a special connection. A love at first sight thing or whatever. But how long has they really know eachother? Is it 40-50-60 days? Don’t know how long the oceanic six were on the island.

Sawyer and Juliet has been togheter probably every day for 3 years. And allthough it might have taken them a few months to “find” eachother they are obviously good for eachother. So plese don’t split them up.

Also I’m a huge fan of friday night lights. Hope it will be renewed allthough it probably wont.

Love the podcast!

1) Horace’s baby is NOT Jacob, as Jacob existed long before 1977, at least as far back as the 1950s. We saw in “Jughead” that Richard was already well acquainted with Jacob, per his discussiion with Locke.

2) I don’t think John Locke is Jacob, either. Way too simple. And on the official podcast (Feb 5, @ the 20:20 mark), Damon Lindaloff jokes: “Vincent, bang your paw three times if Jacob is Locke from the future.” i.e. Locke is NOT Jacob.

Lastly, I really like Toga’s post, indicating that the statue is Taweret. The link to http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1236237056832.jpg is very convincing evidence.

Which came first?

The Time Travel 5 joining DHARMA or Father & Son Linus joining DHARMA?

Has the entire off-island apparatus of the DI been commandeered by the others? Is the DI support network unaware of the purge? Have these drops been delivered from a different timeline so that they arrive long after the purge? Are the DI provisioning a small band that somehow escaped the purge? Or how about this one: the supply line has been reopened to support a new vanguard of the DI coming to the island. 815 or 316? Widmore promised a war was coming.

i wish we could edit comments…..

the pilot of flight 915 was named Seth.

Seth is a god of chaos, infertility and is associated with deserts, destructive acts of nature and is a protector of the barge to the underworld.

Seth killed his brother by drowning him in a coffin (?) and then cutting him up into little pieces. This brother of his would become the god of the dead and would open up the after-life. Seth is all at once evil and revered. If Seth did not kill his brother, there would be no afterlife.

Four toed statue is definitely Seth.

Oh and the baby? Unquestionably its Jacob.

What an UP episode. I thought it was a bit strange how they all were able to be there for 3 years and not slip up on their stories and let any DI people know who they really are.

Also, where’s Daniel (3 years later?)

- I think it makes sense that Alpert wanted Paul’s body so he did not have to return to his people empty handed.

“No matter who you are, two of my men are dead, my people need some kind of justice”.

It would make sense for his people to be incensed by the deaths of two comrades and Alpert made his way to the Dharma camp determined to set this right, only for the intervention of ‘Sawyer’ to make him reconsider his initial plan.

- As for Smokey, I’m going to put out a crazy theory that Richard Alpert (eventually) gets chosen by Jacob to be the conscience of smokey. That smokey is the guardian of the island, and whilst not under direct command, it serves the leader of the island.

Smokey is a darker version of Abbaddon on the island.
Abbadon serves off the island to get people where they need to be with a view to get to the island, wheras Smokey defends the island from people who are not meant to be there, creating a sort of balance.

- I think that Horace and Amy’s son is Ben, that with Juliet being there, she saves Ben’s mother from dying from giving birth. Another (divine?) intervention?

- I feel that Daniel is still holding back alot of information from us. The way in which he says “I will not tell her” strikes me as if he knew that he would see her again when she was little, has he been here before thinking that telling her to not return would save her?

And just for kicks, here’s another theory for you guys to think about;

Ben knows about the upcoming war and as a result, is breaking the rules by returning to the island to be able to be part of it. He has to kill Locke so that Locke’s last conscience moment alive off the island is directly connected with Ben. This allows Ben to appear in the same time in which Locke appears prior to the war starting. What do you think?

Love the podcasts, all the best.

Aegis

What an amazing episode! I think this is my favorite Sawyer episode! With out first glimpse at the 4 toed statue, to seeing sawyer do what he does best..Con, I loved this episode! After last weeks awesome but “slow” episode this is what LOST is about!.. The writers are doing there best story telling this season!

Things I noticed:

1. At first glimpse, I thought that was the Pearl Station at the beginning.

2. Charlotte, I wonder if we have a little bit of story left with her.

3. Richard Alpert coming into New Otherton, could Dharma be the “military” Alpert is protecting the island from. Was Jughead put there by the Dharma ?..I wonder what the truce is. I am still wondering who is “good” and who is “bad”.

Look Forward to the Podcast..

-Jonine

Loved the episode and was gripped by it.
2 things i noticed in the scene near the start when the 2 guys on security duty spot Horace drunk…
It struck me as strange that there was a geniune fear from them both about alterting head of security Sawyer/LaFleur. I don’t really get why they would appear to be so frightened of him. The fear and anticipation of the 2 reminded me of Locke approaching Jacobs cabin.
The other thing i noticed was that when Saywer went to grab his Dharma jumpsuit to go deal with Horace our attention was on name on the jumpsuit but if you look at the chair as he removes it you will see what looks to me to be a donkey wheel type engraving on the chair. I could be wrong or it may be a coincidence but it looks similar.
Here’s a picture i took of it…
http://i39.tinypic.com/e63dl1.png

Look forward to podcast and thanks for all your hard work.

Besides the link with both Jacob and Egypt, another interesting name pops up. Jacob had a total of 12 sons, 10 of them with Leah and the other two with Rachel. What happends to be the name of the youngest son? Benjamin! (Story of Joseph: Genesis 37 to 50)

For those interested, a synopsis of the story can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob#Joseph_son_of_Jacob_and_Rachel

-There was a full statue, not just the foot. I wonder when that time was.
-What is it with Horace and trees? When he appeared to Locke, he was cutting one down. Now he’s blowing them up.
-If there was a truce, why did the two Others find it fit to shoot Paul & attempt to take Amy?
-Juliet with the “Norma Rae” kerchief now makes her the best looking woman on LOST hands down in my book.
-What are the grids that Jin & Sawyer are looking for? (133/134)
-Whoever Horace & Michelle Dressler/Amy’s son is, is 27 years old if still alive in 2004.
-I loved the “eyeliner” remark by Sawyer!
-Sawyer mentioned it was 1974, so “3 years later” is now 1977.
-Sawyer’s talk to Horace about a woman he loved could apply just as much to Cassidy as it can to Kate.
-Sawyer/Juliet is now my favorite couple. Followed by Desmond/Penny.
-I agree with Jen. Sawyer & Juliet must not be broken. Kate & Jack can stay together in their neurotic misery. By this point in time, Sawyer-Juliet have been together longer than Sawyer-Kate, Juliet-Jack.
-Whatever led to women not being able to carry pregnancies to term & give birth wasn’t always there. It must’ve occurred after this time period and before Juliet got there.

-Anyone wonder if Juliet/Sawyer/Jin have run into a young Ben Linus and how awkward those encounters must be?
-I’m convinced “The Incident” is how the Oceanic 3 & the Time Travel 5 get back to 2007.

I haven’t read anyone’s comments so far. I just wanted to put down my inital post-viewing thoughts down as they came. I’ll respond to the other comments after I read them all. It’s going to be an agonizing two weeks.

The extended “previously on” section at the beginning of the episode is extra special for two reasons.
1) Obviously the statue is shown, i’m in agreement with E at longlivelocke.blogspot.com in that i believe the statue is very possibly Taweret; the Egyptian god of fertility, childhood, pregnancy.
2) (this is the important one) We saw the scene with john turning the FDW, and we saw that it occurs at the same time as the Losties are looking at the statue. We are to assume that this time frame is the distant past because of the statue. Now we know that the FDW room exists in this time period! Before the well. So it’s old, built by the same people who built the statue perhaps. But the well isn’t the entrance. So perhaps the temple is. Why did the well get built there? Hopefully not the paradoxing reason that someone finds the rope that was left embedded in the ground thanks to Sawyer!

I’ve been saying for a while now that i believe Richard Alpert to be an Egyptian slave who was held on the Black Rock. But there’s a good chance that the statue builders were there before the Black Rock arrived. Maybe the Black Rock was heading to the island for that reason. The Hanso connection with the ship is too important to assume the ship is there by chance.

I’m also wondering more about the sonic fence. If you can negate the effects simply by wearing earplugs then surely it can’t be there to keep out the “hostiles”. Is it to protect from animals, or just for Smokey. Richard makes a nod towards the latter with his cheeky “it may keep OTHER THINGS out”.

My last comment for this post.. Horace says to the other guy “Call the arrow, tell them we’re at condition one, take the heavy ordinance and make sure the fence is at maximum”. His accent made me think he was saying “air-o” at first – but then i remembered that Horace wears a jumpsuit with the arrow insignia (i’m not sure if he was wearing that in this episode, but in the past we’ve seen it) and that the arrow was used to “develop defensive strategies against the hostile natives of the Island” according to Dr Changs video. Now, it’s understandable they have a station that’s used for tactical planning, but why is Horace working there (he’s a mathematician) and what’s he planning here. What specifically is the heavy ordnance? Normally the term is used for artillery and the like. Here’s a long shot but it might well have taken some “ordnance” to reduce the 4 toed statue to the remaining foot we’ve seen… Just a thought.

As for the baby it could be this guy Caesar who appears in the last episode as well , and makes it to the island .

In the end i really think that Charles is one of the good guys !

On topic great episode indeed , son of a bitch !

A couple thoughts, I hate to think what Ben might do if he found out about the two. I’m sure he hasn’t gotten over his obsessive feelings toward Juliet and look what happened to Goodwin…

But although we know Ben, Locke and Frank are alive at least, I’m not sure they are in the 70s like everyone else. For one, the Hydra building does look abandoned, and if those ARE Dan’s notes in the office… how did they get there? Second, it did look like the plane had landed on the runway which hadn’t been built until 2004. That is, unless this is an older or different one.

And Rose and Bernard as Adam and Eve? I really enjoy that idea and I’m sure the writers will cover that in full.

Please keep up the great work! I look forward to hearing your podcast every week! You guys do such a great job!

Sawyer asks Juliette to deliver Amy’s baby and Juliette objects saying that all her attempts to deliver a baby on the island have failed. Sawyer’s response is that whatever event that causes mothers to die during late term may not have happened yet. The fact that Amy and the baby are both doing fine after the delivery implies that this is true. Now, MLE in Colorado asks “was the statue ‘Bastet, … the goddess of pregnant women?” If that is the case, can it be that the event Sawyer refered to, when it does happen, is coincident with the destruction of the statue?

- or -

Russell in Raleigh thinks the statue is Anubis because it appears to have dog ears. To this, I simply note that Vincent’s feet would appear to have only four toes.

And finally, I assumed that Charlotte’s body disappeared when the Losties time jumped because only live people time jumped and the body was left behind.

Do you think its possible that The Oceanic 5 (not including Ben or Locke and Aaron is on the mainland) are in 1977 while Ben and Locke are in 2007? It’s a little far fetched, but I’m not sure what would happen to the island if a future self met a past self, it seems like this should not be allowed. So basically, young Ben should not be able to meet present day Ben and that’s why they are on the hydra station and the Losties were transported to the bigger island.

I did some re-watching and had just watched the episode where Hurley tricks Sawyer into being nice. He tells him that he is the default leader when Jack Locke Kate and Sayid are not around. We get a set up way back then for this episode, where Sawyer uses his powers for good. a three year con. Now to get the old leaders to fall in line and not screw it up.

I love how we see everyone after 3 years on living life to come back together like uncomfortable high school reunion.

can’t wait to get a look at the other group’s time jumping and 3 years of DI…. maybe they fell in with the island folk

another random thing: Sayid was tasked to get information from Iraqi soldiers ( using torture) so that the US troops could find a lost pilot… Lapidas maybe ? was he involved in iraq?

I like how it reminded me of an old Star Trek episode where Capt “JIM”
is oh so happy with his little Indian Princess until his true love (the Enterprise) came back.

I think Juliette and Kate both could be pregnant and provide an interesting ‘which one do we save’ kind of drama.

I must also say, I love the relationship related episodes and truly feel that if we don’t connect with the characters or care what happens to them the whole thing falls apart. Don’t get me wrong I think the mythology is important and intriguing. But having a bunch of mythology and action without good relationship episodes can bring the whole thing crashing down. My Husband and I gave up on Hero’s for that very reason.

Crackpot theory: the baby is Sawyer, hence the special dinner by our culinary challenged Julliette, and the especially worried Sawyer while the baby was being delivered. I almost expected her to come out with a “happy birthday honey”.

Sonic Fence: I suspect it’s primarily there to keep Smokie out, not the “hostiles”, especially if all it takes is a pair of ear plugs to get through it, (or was I missing something there).

Wasn’t that the Pearl station shown in the opening “hootenanny” scene?

One comment I wanted to make was that I went back and watched The Man Behind the Curtain to see if Horace ever referred to Olivia as his wife. From what I could tell he never does, so its possible that they were just DI colleagues, friends, ect.

Your podcast is great btw, keep up the good work.

love the podcast, keep up the good work!

Jen, I said almost the exact same thing at the end of the episode! If Sawyer leaves Juliet for Kate, so help me… I won’t stop watching, but I’ll be VERY disappointed. I’m hoping that the worst that will happen is Sawyer will be tempted by Kate but in the end realizes that he loves Juliet. You know that the writers have to toy with our emotions a little bit.

Step aside Locke, step down Jack here comes Sawyer! He is good, he puts the con skills to good use, he is a pragmatist and he is not afraid. He takes the initiative and does take responsibility. All trademarks of a leader! It has been some time since we last had a Sawyer episode and this one was good, probably the best Sawyer-centric episode.

Juliet as a mechanic, there is another good reason to visit the island!

I thought that I saw Ben in the preview for this week’s episode, was I mistaken?

If this is 1974 and the DI, then where are Ben and Roger? What about Widmore… …wait where the heck is Rose and Bernie? They have been on the island, separated for at least three years and nobody is wondering! I half expected to see Bernie running around in primitive clothing attacking Otherville with the Hostiles!

My head hurts, so I am going to take a small break.

….

Ok, back again. Some random thoughts. Where was Daniel in 1977, he was the only who we did not see. How is it that Richard can go through the sonic defense system? For whom is the system designed? Is it possible that there is a third group of people on the island? Did Horace know about the Black Rock? How come that babies can actually be born on the island? If there was a truce between the two parties why did they shoot Paul? What happens to dead bodies on the island?

All in all a good episode some new characters, I am not able to actually understand what is going on but I have been advised by Eloise to take take a leap of faith.

Take care guys and enjoy the break.

Austin sounds good…..

Ilias

PS: My wife loved Sawyer’s smile, she found his dimples so sweet

1) The DI of LaFleur is 1974 to 1977. These are true DI people and not Others. The people living in the DI village when we first see them there in season three are the Hostiles who took over the camp after the Purge. The only DI crossover that we know of is Ben. So people like Tom Friendly, Ethan and Goodwin are not going to be citizens of the 1974 DI camp…they are Hostiles in 1974.

2) The 1973 DI is not the tail end of the DI. Marvin Candle is making Orientation films circa 1980, which to me seems like the Island DI’s glory days and when Ben possibly arrived on the Island. If that is true and he was only 10-12 years old, then Ben is a lot younger that I first thought. If he was born in 1970, then he is only 34 years old at the time of the 815 crash…Michael Emerson is a good actor, but he is 54 years old in real life so that seems like a bit of a stretch.

3) Between 1974 and 1977 the Flashing Losties would have had plenty of time to meet all the DI members on the Island and suss out who is who and who they grow up to be. So Miles would have seen his dad and his baby-self, they would have met boy Ben, etc. There is no indication from LaFleur that any of this has been revealed to them, leading me to believe that Marvin Candle, Ben and a large group of the DI are yet to arrive on the Island.

4) Daniel Faraday is obviously there when Candle is there, so there is a continuing mystery that is yet to be solved.

All of the jumping around from 3 years ago, to ’3 years later’ was also unnecessary and confusing. No one asks any questions, no one talks to each other, it reminds me of Season 3 all over again. WHY would they not be curious about the time travel? About Juliet’s past? About where Locke “went”? Staying on the island? Who in their right mind would ever want to do that?

People are being murdered everywhere you look, smoke monsters that kill people, and weird cults like the Others and Dharma are all around. Who would want to live like that? No one, that’s who. You get a chance to get off of wacko island on a submarine and you don’t take it? Sorry, I’m not buying it.

I have been re-watching Season 1 on my Ipod lately just to see how things might be connected. It’s very interesting to me how in “Deus Ex Machina”, Locke does an eleborate description of Mousetrap and talks about how you “start with all these parts off the board… and then one by one, you build a trap… piece by piece it all comes together… and then you wait til your opponent lands on the old cheese wheel.. and then if you set it up just right- you spring the trap”. I feel like this is exactly what we’ve been seeing.

FIVE years isnt gonna be enough for ME to get over James. Ah, Mr. Lafleur….I wish I could quit you.

___

Might I say, that I am completely hetero, but I completely agree with this statement!

I loved this episode!

This applies to diamonds, guns, hatches and other boxes, secrets, lies, and perhaps even to Jughead. We’ve known from the very beginning since “White Rabbit” that this applies to the dead as well. Even though the needle has settled into its groove for the time being, I feel no fate is written in stone and no death is final until the original breach in time is repaired.

(Again, I feel the whole struggle between Ben and Widmore boils down to a conflict over the inevitability of fate vs. the possibility of change. The indoctrinations of Ben’s room 23 brainwashing video clearly reveal his inclination: “Everything changes” and “Only fools are enslaved by space and time.”)

Looking at images of Egyptian gods, it seems as if the statue is most likely that of Annubis given the male garb and the pointed ears that would not match the hawk’s head that Horus has (say that 5 times fast!) It makes perfect sense to me that that we would see the god of the underworld chosen as the representation of the island. It might also be useful to note that the statue isn’t just a work of art, but serves as a beacon or lighthouse much like the colossus of Rhodes. We can tell this by the bowl-shaped crown that would be used for burning a large signal fire.

Someone just beat me to the punch with the idea that the others didn’t initially break the truce, but were responding to some violation by Amy and Paul. I know we’ve seen that area before, most notably when Yemi/Smokey passed final judgement on Eko. Is it sacred ground or a place of concentrated energy that makes it special? Amy knows more than she lets on about a lot of things because her decision to go with Juliet as her doctor implies that she never really believed Lafleur’s whole story.

Finally, if my thinking is correct, we have the first baby conceived and born on the island. Instead of trying to match this baby to a known character, I would look more to the problems of fertility that Ben was so concerned with and perhaps a possible link to the sickness. This is a great triumph for Juliet at the moment, but will the combination of birth and conception on the island cause something to go horrible wrong and create a monstrosity aka the creature from the black lagoon? This has been one of my pet theories for awhile.

Defend the island.

I know there’s been a lot of talk about ancient Egyptian culture what with the hieroglyphs, the Sphinx in Hurley’s picture, and now the statue. But I wanted to add something on the topic I thought was interesting.

In an art history class I took last year, I remember learning about something called a Ka statue from the early kingdom of ancient Egypt. In burial tombs, this statue was supposed to serve as a physical resting place for the spirit, or Ka, of the deceased. The typical Ka stance included square shoulders, hands clenched at the sides, and a forward right foot, as if caught mid-step. They were often carved out of limestone and (get this!) sculptors would sometimes only give the Ka FOUR TOES to save time and money.

After comparing a screencap of the island statue (http://www.theackattack.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/whoooooaaaaa.jpg) and this example of an Egyptian Ka (http://www.egyptarchive.co.uk/images/luxor_museum/12_luxor_museum.jpg), I think its safe to say the four-toed-statue is probably related to ancient Mediterranean culture of some kind.

PS. Note that the Minoans and Greeks would often copy the Ka statue stance for their own art.

I don’t think the Kate-Sawyer-Juliet-Jack quadrangle will span more than one episode. Kate said that she’s always been with Jack and even said that Sawyer’s gone, as in, he’s out of the picture (Jack says he’s not dead and she says, yes, but he’s gone). The last thing Juliet thought of Jack was that she knew Jack was still in love with Kate. Three years passed for the Oceanic 6 so they, too, had time to get over someone, if there was anyone to get over.

At the same time, I don’t feel a lot of love for the Sawyer and Juliet’s cuddly relationship. The writers are asking a lot of fans, whom probably were wanting to see a romantic reunion between Kate and Sawyer. Much more time passed in between when Kate left and returned to the island. I understand what and why they’re doing it this way, but I think the fans have to digest so much backstory that isn’t witnessed firsthand–it’s a lot to ask for them to stretch their imagination. I need to be really convinced Sawyer still holds no unrequited love for Kate, more than whether Kate holds any romantic feelings for Sawyer from three years ago. Most of all, I want to see the conversation between him and Kate about Clementine.

One question, or two, is that when the Oceanic 6 arrive on the island from the year 2007, once Sawyer finds them, couldn’t the submarine eventually take all the original flight 815 and 316 people, as well as Miles and Daniel, back to 2007? The island is in the 70s, but the rest of the world stayed in 2007, correct? This is vague.

When Jack, Kate and Hurley flash off Ajira 316 and back onto the island in 1977 they have lived 3 years (around Jan 2005 – 2008) off-island while Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Jin & Faraday have lived 3 years on-island (1974-77). So Locke will be comparatively 3 years younger than each group, assuming he meets up with everyone, since he missed both time periods. Then again, he was dead and now is alive (it seems), so I guess it’s no big deal.

Is anyone else wondering what happened to Rose and Bernard since the flaming arrow attacks during the flashes? I take it that all remaining Flight 815 fuselage redshirts are now goners, especially since there is a new batch of Flight 316 redshirts. And did the 815 tailies that were kidnapped by the Others (ie. Cindy, the kids, etc.) flash in time as well and are in 1977 too? Darlton have officially stated that Vincent is the only character guaranteed to make it to the end of lost, so where is he in 1974-77?

That’s OK by me.

I loved this episode – loved it! I will put it in my top 10 for sure.

I want to put the long-haired guy down as Jacob, but I’m not sure. I think that’s the biggest mystery for me.

Horace/Amy’s baby can’t be Jacob: Locke uses Jacob’s name as political capital when he talks to Richard in “Jughead”, and that’s in the 50′s; so Jacob’s been on the island pre-Dharma.

2 weeks is too long!

Thanks for the podcast Ozawas!

Thanks so much. I had come in late to the show and had tivo’d it, I fast forwarded through the first couple of minutes because it all looked like a recap. I just played it again and clearly saw the statue.

Interesting note, during one of the official Lost Podcasts Damon and Carlton talk about the donkey wheel and the heiroglyphics and the Island being there during Egyptian times. This was a podcast before the new season started and they answered viewer questions. The question was about the age of the island. Damon answered that it appeared that there were hieroglyphics at the donkey wheel so wouldn’t that imply the Island was around during the Egyptian times. (you know Damon, he usually answers a question with a question) At that time I felt that he was hinting about a future important clue.

Jen–glad you noticed Kevin Rankin (Herc from FNL) and are a Friday Night Lights fan. For anyone who enjoys high quality drama, do yourself a favor and checkout that show.

Also…why is it not brought up that the Hostiles are the ones that broke the truce? It looks like they killed Paul…so they broke it? And Why oh Why did RA take that body…I hope they address that. Weird.

Miles asks when they are right before Locke resets the wheel — this is followed by a pan of the back of the statue. It is quick, but easily seen.

What if Miles saw himself as a child at the Dharma compound? Can you think of anything weirder — actually seeing/interacting with yourself.

The episode LeFleur was excellent. Sawyer is master of his own domain, and I see conflict brewing for Sawyer and Jack. Sawyer seems real directed — better watch-out, Jack!! While you’ve had it soft and been hopped up on drugs and booze, Sawyer worked his way up to become the “feared” head of security.

Thanks!

Re: “@Heykir – Paul died three years before, babies only take 9 months. I’m pretty sure the baby is Horace’s. ”

I mistyped, sorry! I meant Horace, but was so excited by the ep, I wrote Paul. Oops! I still like that theory though…

Locke is Jacob, for these reasons..

Locke and Ben are step-brothers from the same mother. Ben is jealous because Locke was predestined to be the Chosen One. Ben is trying to change the future and steal Locke’s birthright by trying to get rid of Locke (hanging, shooting), but only after Ben finds out what Locke needs to do to take Locke’s rightful place as Leader of the Island’s Chosen People (the Others).

Didn’t Locke see himself inside the cabin for a breif second a couple of season’s ago?

Also..
Babies die at birth on the island because they were never existed in the True future. Time has been fractured, and only what WILL happen, will happened. Since these island babies never existed as people, the Island wouldn’t let them be born.

Plus, babies died when Ben was the leader, which means Ben was never meant to be Leader, only Locke is.

We think Richard is an ancient Egyptian — eyeliner, heiroglyphics, temple, statue.

So far, media-wise we’ve seen: 8mm film, VHS, U-matic video, 8-track, 45 RPM record, LP record, cassette tape and last night reel-to-reel. Am I missing any others?

Widmore most likely had “people” on Flight 316.

When this season got underway, I thought, great, they’re answering questions. I’m not so sure now. The story and number of charaters is as stretched as ever. I’m concerned about Penny and Desmond.

PS: Ryan and Jen, LOVE the podcast! I know it’s not easy to produce – please keep up the good work.

Dude…Desmond’s boat wrecked during his race around the world. He wasn’t born there. He was there for about three years before the Losties and that’s it.

I loved the eyeliner line…BEST!

I was wondering why Charlotte’s body disappeared and I wonder if it’s because her body was already on the island at the DI camp – but now that doesn’t make sense since the other Flashies were on the island the same time their past selves were, too, so that shouldn’t matter.
Also, I have no idea either why RA wants Paul’s body, especially in the name of “Justice” but I recalled one “Other” funeral so I looked it up on the Lostpedia: in Season 3′s “The Cost of Living” Colleen Pickett, who was shot by Sun, was set afloat on a funeral pyre and set to sea. Perhaps there is a connection between whether a body is buried (Losties), cremated (Colleen), or left exposed (DI from purge to include Ben’s dad left in the van), or in a wood coffin (Christian Shephard), and whether they can be of any further use to the island? I’m sure I’m missing some other ways dead bodies were exposed of, but anyway, any ideas on correlations? I think RA wanted to know where the bodies were buried so they could be recovered for whatever their preferred method of handling them.
One other question, Horace asks Sawyer if 3 years is long enough to get over someone, but Olivia was with him in the 60′s when Ben was born and was also on the island in the 70′s as a teacher when Ben is in her class. If the time that the Flashies stopped Flashing and joined DI was when they were still building the stations (based on Faraday being in the Orchid at the first episode of the season) then it would seem Horace and Olivia are still together at the time Paul was killed. If this was the case, then he should know personally whether 3 years was long enough to be over someone, right? I guess I am assuming they were still a couple when she was a teacher on the island. Actually, maybe they were not married but siblings?
Anyway, excellent episode. I missed seeing a little heart in the episodes. The last few seemed a bit more mechanical to get the setting in place, which I appreciate, but seeing Sawliette become a reality is just NEAT! I love that the only way Sawyer can be in this type of relationship is when it’s part of a larger con – telling the DI they were on a boat! Win-win!
I was always more of a fan of Jack, but this season I have really started to sway in the Sawyer camp.
And did I mention those dimples?

1. The front of the intact statute bearing the face of a monkey, a la the final scene at the Lincoln Memorial in the remake of Planet of the Apes.

2. The series finale turning out to be the solipsistic thoughts of John Locke, similar to the series finale of St. Elsewhere, where the entire story was in the mind.

3. ANY kind of “dream finale,” a la Dallas or The Bob Newhart Show.

Oh, and by the way, where did Locke get the hooded cloak he wore in the opening of last week’s episode? It certainly wasn’t with him in the coffin. Maybe it was a Snuggie.

Aloha.

Great stuff!!!

One thing that occurred to me while watching last night is that now Locke is the only person who has had the same linear experience as the viewers. All of the other characters have aged an extra three years, while it has only been a few days for Locke.

Also, I think the statue is of Anubis. It looks like it has dog ears to me–although they are toned down enough to make it ambiguous. Anubis was the God that protected the mummies and the dead-sounds a bit like Smokey.

Finally the name Horace Goodspeed (derivation of God Speed) is a great connection of Egyptian and Christian religion.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Four-toed_statue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis

On the question about what happened to Olivia… We all seem to be under the impression that Olivia and Horace were husband and wife when they came upon Ben’s parents in Portland. But I don’t recall anyone saying they were married. (Please, someone correct me if I’m wrong!) What if they’re siblings instead? That explains them having the same last name and the idea that Horace is with Amy on the island. Also, it keeps with Damon & Carlton saying that Olivia & Horace will play a bigger role in the future.

Just when I think the writers have filled their quota of amazing episodes for one season, they hit us with another and another and another. I am not a big Sawyer fan, but he shined last night. There is so much to love about this episode:

- I’m a big fan of Sawyer nicknames, and my favorite from “LaFleur” was his referring to Richard Alpert as “the guy with the eyeliner.”
- Every podcast and theory I listened to leading up to this episode made some kind of assumption that the reference to “LaFleur” would be to a female character. But, oh, those tricky writers. I NEVER would’ve guessed that this would be the name our own Sawyer would take.
- It’s been a while since we’ve seen James in all his hustler glory, so to see him use these skills as the leader of the Losties was a really wonderful character development. This was a fabulous episode for this character, and he finally seemed to be comfortable in his own skin. Maybe it’s his newfound stability in the Dharma Initiative — maybe it’s the stability he finds in his relationship with Juliet… Whatever it is, it allowed him to develop into an effective leader and *gasp* nice guy.

Can’t wait for March 18!

I loved this episode. I’ve never considered myself a “Jater” or a “Skater”, but I have always wanted Sawyer to find love and happiness. I had an inkling that since it looked like Sawyer and Juliette would be stuck together through the time flashes, they might strike up something eventually. But I never expected it to happen the way it did and also so believably. They are truly a lovely couple and I am so happy for the two of them to have finally found love in each other.

And, of course, now here comes Kate AND Jack, back to mess with both Sawyer and Juliette’s hearts. ARG! I totally agree with Jen — I don’t know if I could take it if their relationship was completely ruined by the return of those two. I hope the longevity that Sawyer and Juliette have together (3 years) will trump the time Sawyer spent with Kate (108 days?) Though realistically I know that the feelings Sawyer had for Kate were more intense and passionate — he sees her as “the one that got away”… Again, ARG!

Thanks for the great podcast guys. I look forward to it every week. Have fun at SxSW Ryan!

Was there an Other named Paul in Season 2 or 3? I am just wondering if he gets resurrected and we’ve seen him before or something? Why would Richard want his body? (I thought it was a little suspicious how they never really showed Paul’s face clearly, did they?) And why was Amy so insistent that they bury people deep? My husband thinks it’s simply so they won’t be found, but I wonder if you go deep enough if Smokey finds them or something. Why would the depth matter?

Dave — I am with you about Ben. I think they just didn’t show him in the episode. But I do have my very own 12-year-old boy and he still looks pretty much like he did at 10 (also have a 15-year-old for comparison). To me, Ben looked about 13 when he arrived, but I think this is splitting hairs. Also, interesting thought about Karl, but I am thinking no way. Karl was not 30 in 2004. I’m thinking he was 20, tops, but who knows?

I don’t think Reyko Aylesworth and Daniel Dae Kim ever shared the screen in 24… DDK was a pretty minor character.

I wonder whether Paul & Amy’s son is Karl. He’d be the right age. Also if he’s the only kid to be born on the island except for Alex that might explain their connection.

How do we know Ben ISN’T there in 1974-77? I mean, we haven’t seen Ethan or Goodwin or Mr Friendly or Ben’s dad (yet — thought Uncle Rico showed up in the preview), but that doesn’t mean he’s not there. Ben looked to me to be around 10 when he arrived on the island… doubt 12 as noted above given how skinny and prepubertal he looks.

Wow! Such a good episode…I have to wait a day for it to appear on iTunes here before I can watch it, so I’m stopping by after my first viewing and might be back after my second

My initial thoughts –
It seems like a pretty likely possibility that Miles is Wickman/Candle/Whatever’s son. I’m wondering if Miles will meet his infant/toddler self the same way Daniel saw the young Charlotte, and if he will learn more about his true roots on the island. Could be cool…

I also can’t wait to see who the little boy is! In a creepy way, I’m wondering if it ends up being Jacob, because he later occupies/haunts the cabin that Horace makes for his wife. Just a thought…

I really loved the Sawyer-Juliet reveal. I didn’t expect to like that as much as I did, but it felt very organic and natural…as any blossoming relationship between two gorgeous people often does. It really seemed like Juliet helped Sawyer to grow up a bit and move past the “do I need to make you a mixtape?” and “you’d better not be pregnant” that he was always throwing at Kate. No wonder their relationship could never really stick.

I think we all just want to know more about this “truce” – I really felt like there must be some connection to Keamy and his crew when they came and killed Rousseau and Carl – When Miles came across those bodies, they had been buried. There was a lot of online buzz about whether you’re really “dead” on the island if you’re not buried…illustrated by examples like Christian Shepard who didn’t get buried and was just walking around later. This could be a time-difference thing, though – as in, he died in 2004, but the island was in 2001 or 1996 or something, so he’s more or less in limbo. Anyway, the whole point – If Keamy and his men knew enough that a dead person had to be buried, I’m thinking this is something Widmore imparted to them, and I’m excited to learn more about it.

One final thought about Widmore – In “The Life and Death…”, he tells Locke he was in charge for 30 years. The timing works out if he “ruled” from about the time Locke visited their camp in the 50′s to the Dharma/Ben era in the 80′s…But when we saw the 50′s camp in “Jughead”, Richard was clearly in charge. What could have happened to so dramatically shift the power in such a short period of time?

Thanks!
Rebecca

The statue appears male from it’s dress. It has short, perhaps feline ears. Yet, we know it has 4 toes, so it could be part bird.

It is holding an ankh in its right hand and something else in its left hand.

You can see images of Egyptian gods at:

http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/gods/explore/main.html

I think it’s important to find a God holding an ankh in its hand. That would indicate any one of these male gods: Anubis, Horus or Seth. I eliminated ones such as Sobek which has an alligator head.

It was interesting that Richard is referred to as the guy with the eye liner – ancient Egyptian rulers and higher ups wore eye makeup.

The Phoenicians adopted many of the Egyptian gods and tweaked them a bit to suit their purpose. Interestingly, Carthage, their capital, was in modern day Tunesia. Did the Phoenicians – famous for their sea-faring ability – discover the island?

The island seems to have many symbols of many world religions both past and present – Christianity, Egyptian and Hindu come to mind immediately. Clearly the wheel has something to do with the Hindu wheel of life. The Dharma wheel and the Hindu wheel both have 8 spokes.

I guess sometimes it pays to be a classics major.

On a different subject, how interesting that Horace was the leader of this (early) group of Dharma people. I recall that he was a mathematician. Could he have been the mathematician that Mrs. Hawking mention as the one who first found the island for the Dharma folks?

What is the symbolism of “3 years”? Last week we saw the losties after “3 years” from being on the island. This week, we go back and forth by “3 years”. I sure it isn’t a coincidence.

Who is the son? Agree with the others above that it isn’t Desmond and what the heck happened to Amy who was supplanted by Olivia and where is Daniel in the “3 years later” life?

Little Charlotte was a killer as was Sawyer’s performance. Great episode. Have to think some more about it!

I’d like to re-iterate a post i made previously in reference to “This Place Is Death”:

“Does Smokey bring people back? Jacks fathers body was lying around on the island, and now that seems to be wandering around.

That takes me onto Charlies visit to Hurley, that didn’t seem much like one of Hurleys imaginary friends. He was wearing different clothes, someone else saw him, and he slapped Hurley. Was it a “possessed” body? If i’m right about this then it also relates to the recent official podcast comments about reincarnation, and the anagram on the side of Bens van.”

Now if memory serves, you didn’t necessarily agree with my thoughts on the subject when you read out the comment on your podcast – but this episode made me think about it again.

As soon as burying the bodies was mentioned my immediate thought was “hiding them from smokey!”, though it seems clear that burying them was to hide them from the others/hostiles/natives. But Alpert DID ask for the body, and as you mention – this might suggest some kind of necromancy shenanigans.

We’ve also got Horace Jann – i’d love to re-watch the scenes where he appeared and proclaimed that he was dead. Did he appear and disappear like the ubiquitous spectral visitations, or is there a chance he was a reanimated/possessed/controlled body?

A counterpoint to my thoughts is that Horace Janns body was in the “purge pit” with a lot of others. All of them could, and would be candidates for re-animation. Why aren’t they wandering around? Maybe the island / Jacob / some ancient Egyptian god trapped in the temple just picks whoever it thinks would serve it’s purpose best, rather than creating some zombie horde.

I’ve only just finished the episode so i haven’t had time to really think about things. But i’m pretty sure that dead bodies are very important to the island. I just don’t know if they’re being resurrected, or whether they’re being controlled by some kind of puppet master, or maybe they’re just symbolic.

Looking forward to hearing your podcast, this was a superb episode and it’s great to see Sawyer being the leader for a change.

@Heykir – Paul died three years before, babies only take 9 months. I’m pretty sure the baby is Horace’s. I also agree that Desmond is too old. I agree that it might not have been “meant” to be born.

@MLE in Colorado – I am definitely along with all the Egyptian stuff (even Richard’s eyeliner really lends itself to it!), but I more inclined to believe the statue would be something more like Isis or Osiris (parents of Horus). From the back I didn’t think the statue looked animal like (no pointed ears or anything). Here’s one pic of Osiris (http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ankh7.jpg)
Also important to note that ancient Egyptians believed their Gods could bestow eternal life on the dead. I wonder if Paul will be up and walking around soon?

http://watchloststreaming.com/season-5-episode-8-lafleur/

…and try to see if my rant makes any sense to you.

- Horace gave them two weeks, how’d they get three years?
- What is the significance of “three years”? They are in Dharmaville for three years, the Oceanic 6 are gone three years, Juliet lived in New Otherton for “over three years”…..
- What’s with all the Egyptian imagery — the statue, the ankh, Horace (Horus- The Sky God)?. (See parallels between Jesus and Horace here – http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm)
- Is three years on the island the same as three years off the island??It certainly seems that way…
- Where is Marvin Candle? Where are the DeGroots? Where is Ben? What is Daniel doing “three years later”?

Favorite parts:
- Watching Richard disoriented and confused for one of the first times
- Juliet sliding out from under the van in her mechanic jumpsuit
- and of course the returning Losties coming face to face with Sawyer in the final scene

Horus in hieroglyphics is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_G5.png. Now have a look at the Countdown timer ones: http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2×14/glyphs.jpg. Look similar??

Interestingly, Horus is what is know as a “Life-Death-Rebirth” deity in Egyptian mythology – that ties in really well with Locke (and maybe Christian). Horus is also a God of War.

Also interesting that Horus sounds exactly like HORACE.

And while on the topic of Egyptian gods, what about Ra, who was a sun god. Ra = Richard Alpert?? Re (Ra) was the Egyptian sun god who was also often referred to as Re-Horakhty, meaning Re (is) Horus of the Horizon.

After a few very quickly paced episodes, I really liked the pace of this episode, it seemed more like a ‘classic’ lost episode.

I feel sorry for Horrace, I have a bad feeling his wife has died (probably by the hostiles). Also I really feel sorry for Daniel, the death would be so tough on him.

One of the best things in the episode was how awesome Sawyer is. His friendship with Miles is a master pairing, as well as new found love for Juliet. How far he has come!

Horace and Olivia were together at Ben’s birth in the early 60′s. I guess there has been a lot of time for them to either break up or for her to die.

Why is it breaking the truce for the DI to mess with the Hostiles, but not the other way around? Richard seemed particularly unconcerned that two of his people had killed Paul and were about to do that or worse to Amy. You would think that that would make things “even”. Perhaps that is why he wanted Paul’s body.

Did the statue look like a woman from behind?

Our little Sawyer is a grown up responsible adult now! Love the dimples. He should smile more often!

Taweret, Egyptian Goddess

“It was in her role of a protector that she was seen as a goddess. As the mother hippo is protective of her young, Taweret was believed to be protective of Egyptian children. She was often shown holding the sa hieroglyph of protection or the ankh hieroglyph of life. She was thought to assist women in labour and scare off demons that might harm the mother or child.

… because hippos are denizens of the fertile Nile mud, Egyptians also saw them as symbols of rebirth and rejuvenation. The birth-related aspect of the hippo’s powers also appears in the complicated shape of the goddess Taweret, who protects women in childbirth.

She was also a goddess relating to fertility. She was goddess of harvests as well as a goddess who helped with female sexuality and pregnancy. In this capacity, she was linked with the goddess Hathor. As a fertility goddess, she was closely associated with the inundation of the Nile especially at Jabal al-Silsila.”

4-toed statue from behind. Great move to keep the mystery alive but still toss us a little bone.

The jumping back and forth between “present” and “3 years later” was a little disorienting so I’ll have to watch it again to make sure I got the timeline down correctly.

This would be a stretch but you know how if someone is supposed to die they die- but if not- they dont…could the baby be Boone and that was why he had to die when he came back?

I hope it ends up being a more important character than Boone ever seemed to be.

ok goodnight.

So was the statue “Bastet” the Egyptian god of cats? Ok hear me out- because yes you are going to see this lead once again to The Wizard of Oz and you know how I love to do that…

If you google Bastet (which is fun because there are many cool images) you will see the statue is similar but what really stuck me was the cross that Paul was wearing when he died and which Amy kept in honor of Paul’s memory and which made Horace so jealous- is in nearly every picture of the Bastet statue- in some depictions the statue is holding this cross and in other its behind her.

Also when you google her images you find she has only four toes.

Here is where we come back to OZ: Bastet is the goddess of pregnant women and home and the “Lady of the East” where Sekhmet is the “lady of the west”. Sekhmet was the lioness-headed goddess of war and destruction.

“Bastet was the goddess of fire, cats, of the home and pregnant women. According to one myth, she was the personification of the soul of Isis. She was also called the “Lady of the East”. As such, her counterpart as “Lady of the West” was Sekhmet.”

I can’t wait to see what Locke does now that he has put his ruby slippers on and clicked his heels three times saying “there’s no place like home”.

Can’t wait to see who the baby is! Loved seeing Alpert and Sawyer talk- I love that Alpert had no idea who Sawyer was but was not surprised by the conversation. Fun episode…

I know last week I complained about having to keep track of new people (Caesar, Ilana and the Ajira castaways), and this week they added MORE new people, but I have to say I love Reiko Aylesworth and am happy to see her as a (somewhat) main character. She was fantastic on 24. I’m trying to remember if she had any scenes with Daniel Dae Kim on 24. Seems like they were on in the same seasons (but I’m not 100% sure).

Loved the episode. Sawyer’s character has come a looooong way. I like him and Juliet together. It should be interesting to see what happens from here with the four way love triangle (square?).

Sawyer’s line about Alpert’s eyeliner was perfect! The only way it could have been better is if he used Ryan’s “guyliner” instead.

Looking forward to the podcast. Thanks for all the effort you put in, yours is the best out there.

Take care and travel safe to Texas Ryan.

All the best,
Mike

My theory is that the oceanic 6 will somehow change the events in the past to prevent the plane from crashing a second time. This is done to prevent Widmore for gaining access to the island a second time. I believe Widmore intends to destroy the island by detonation of “jug-head” at the energy source. Seeing Jack, Kate and Hugo back in the Dharma time would support this theory, after all Sawyer, Jin, Miles and Juliet spent 3 years in Dharma time. The same series of events is needed to “put the record on the correct song” again.

If this is done the universe will course correct, but the island will not be destroyed…hopefully season 7.

Just my thoughts, looking forward to your podcast.