Next: “LaFleur” (Episode 5×08)

I liked this episode more than I probably should have. And Jen? She says “LaFleur” is comfortably within her top ten favorite episodes of “LOST” ever. While I wouldn’t go quite that far, obviously “LaFleur” clicked for us — even when it probably shouldn’t. After all, last week’s episode only covered a couple of weeks, chronologically, yet felt both rushed and by-the-numbers. Tonight we get an episode that not only spans three years, but jumps back and forth relentlessly. It played games with our expectations, and it gave us even more new characters. But somehow it worked. It had heart. It had velocity. It had everything from the four-toed statue (sort of) to Jin speaking English. And Sawyer? Why hasn’t this guy been in charge from the beginning?

While we’re largely treated to a Dharma Initiative history lesson, the shadows of the larger arc are always looming. Faraday promising himself that he “won’t tell her” (hoping to prove false his assertion that “whatever happened, happened”) to the fantastic encounter with the mysterious Richard Alpert. Juliet reminds us that her people, her time, were post-Dharma… and that both “The Incident” and “The Purge” lay ahead.

But the character interactions were the best part of “LaFleur.” And Josh Holloway sold every scene. From blowing Richard Alpert’s mind to settling down with Juliet, from selling Horace a tall tale to rising to be the town sheriff, Sawyer shined. I lamented, when we saw Sawyer and Juliet spooning in bed, that we were moments away from Kate showing up and ruining it all. And when Sawyer finally saw Kate step out of Jin’s van, Jen said, “If Sawyer leaves Juliet for Kate now, I’m going to stop watching.”

Well, not really. But it’s surely a testament to the performances of both Josh Holloway and Elizabeth Mitchell (who looks great as a mechanic, by the way) that we needed only that scene on the dock by the sub to believe just how well things worked out for them “three years later.” One episode sold them as a couple. While the “love triangle” (or quadrangle or whatever) will inevitably return, for the moment I’d like to pretend it won’t.

There are more than a few questions raised by “LeFleur,” of course. Why did Alpert want Paul’s body? The Island obviously works some magic with the deceased. Where does the smoke monster fit in? Alpert suggests with some dismay that the sonic fence is an effective deterrent, so perhaps it’s working in concert with the hostiles. Do we know who Horace and Amy’s son is? Jen’s of the opinion we haven’t met him yet, which is less satisfying but opens up more possibilities. I guess, if you believe Daniel, the baby was always meant to be born, but part of me likes the idea that Juliet’s intervention did change something… for better or worse.

Notes and Notions:

  • The mention of “The Black Rock” was great, too. Though now I’m wondering where Charles Widmore is by this time. He said his people protected the island for three decades before Ben exiled him. If that period began around when we first met him as a young whippersnapper in the 1950s, he could conceivably still be around in the 1970s. Right?
  • Loved the “needle drop” using the reel-to-reel tape player (“Candida” by Tony Orlando & Dawn). How many more music playback devices are left?
  • I really enjoyed Miles’ snarkiness this episode, especially as Sawyer had to mostly elevate himself to leading man. His complaint about “the only two plans” (the beach vs. the Orchid) was quite apt.
  • The Ankh necklace that Amy saved from Paul was a nice touch of symbolism. Signifying “eternal life,” its Egyptian roots also line up nicely with the motifs suggested by the back of the statue.
  • Sawyer was overflowing with nicknames, but Jen’s favorite was “Enos,” which is a “Dukes of Hazzard” reference.
  • Jen was also happy to see Kevin Rankin, who plays Herc on one of our other favorite shows, “Friday Night Lights.”
  • So Horace and Amy had a baby. But what happened to Olivia, the woman Horace was with when they discovered Ben’s mother in Portland?

What did you think? Please comment below, send us an e-mail at, or call the LostLine at (808) 356-0127 by Friday, March 6.

214 Responses to “Next: “LaFleur” (Episode 5×08)”

  1. Lydia from Massachusetts says:

    bit bucket asks how did Jin place the call to Sawyer in the days before cell phones? Car phones have been around for quite a while. The rich family up the street from me had one in their Cadillac in the mid 1970s. As long as Jin had some kind of radio transmitter, it could have been hooked up to the DI phone system.

  2. ChiliDog says:

    Four toed statue is the Egyptian god, Seth. Seth is considered the complement to Horus. Interesting how prominent Horace was in this episode.

    Seth is a god of chaos, infertility and is associated with deserts, destructive acts of nature and is a protector of the barge to the underworld.

    Seth killed his brother by drowning him in a coffin (?) and then cutting him up into little pieces. This brother of his would become the god of the dead and would open up the after-life. Seth is all at once evil and revered. If Seth did not kill his brother, there would be no afterlife.

    Four toed statue is definitely Seth.

    Oh and the baby? Unquestionably its Jacob.

  3. ChiliDog says:

    forgot to add one thing….

    the pilot of flight 915 was named Seth.

  4. ChiliDog says:

    815, not 915.

    i wish we could edit comments…..

  5. Another idea just occurred to me while reading about Ethan and Dharma vs the Others above. To me, one of the great enduring mysteries is the Dharma Initiative air drop. If the DI has been wiped out in the purge as we’ve been told, then who exactly has been continuing the air drops all these years?

    Has the entire off-island apparatus of the DI been commandeered by the others? Is the DI support network unaware of the purge? Have these drops been delivered from a different timeline so that they arrive long after the purge? Are the DI provisioning a small band that somehow escaped the purge? Or how about this one: the supply line has been reopened to support a new vanguard of the DI coming to the island. 815 or 316? Widmore promised a war was coming.

  6. yosemite chris says:

    where’s sayid,we seem to know where everyone else is. and where was daniel in the flash forward last esp. we saw everyone else but him.

  7. TVSciFi says:

    So the statue was still standing as of 1977. Wonder how it got all blown up.

  8. TVSciFi says:

    I just hope the series doesn’t end with Annubis coming through the Stargate to fight Smokie who is a replicator πŸ˜‰

  9. ManilaRaf says:

    @yosemite Chris: Sawyer/Jin/Miles are in Security and Juliet works in the Motor Pool. I think it should be obvious from the Season Premiere that Daniel is working in Construction, trying to get the Orchid Station built. Perhaps he’ll be the one to try to get everyone back to 2004/7.

  10. brian says:

    @ChiliDog, a few others have pointed out in this thread that when Locke walks into Richard’s camp in the 1950s he mentions Jacob’s name and Richard immediately recognizes it. This seems to make it extremely unlikely that Horace’s son is Jacob (although nothing is impossible with this show). I think that Horace is the smart fellow who discovered the way to the island that Eloise mentioned in “316” and that he has a deep connection to the island, but Jacob seems to have been there for a lot longer than the Dharma Initiative and Horace.

  11. SOKO says:

    Some people seem confused as to when they saw the full statue. They saw the statue right before the final flash that brought them to the 70’s (between the flash when Locke turned the wheel and the flash that left sawyer holding a rope in the ground). so the statue was before the well was built. way before… not the 70’s at all.

  12. ManilaRaf says:

    Okay, here’s a question for all of you folks. I ask because from my LOST internets readings I don’t have a clear answer.

    Which came first?

    The Time Travel 5 joining DHARMA or Father & Son Linus joining DHARMA?

  13. yosemite chris says:

    manila- we know what he doing but,why did nt they show him.i think father and son linus are their somewhere,but in the 3 years later,you’d
    think they would mention if ben was around.

  14. Angie from NM says:

    Miles can’t be in two places on the timeline can he. He can’t be on the island as a child and be working for Dharma with LaFleur at the same time, so wouldn’t this rule him out as being Pierre Changs son.

  15. Mark in Omaha says:

    a couple thoughts about Jacob…

    1) Horace’s baby is NOT Jacob, as Jacob existed long before 1977, at least as far back as the 1950s. We saw in “Jughead” that Richard was already well acquainted with Jacob, per his discussiion with Locke.

    2) I don’t think John Locke is Jacob, either. Way too simple. And on the official podcast (Feb 5, @ the 20:20 mark), Damon Lindaloff jokes: “Vincent, bang your paw three times if Jacob is Locke from the future.” i.e. Locke is NOT Jacob.

    Lastly, I really like Toga’s post, indicating that the statue is Taweret. The link to is very convincing evidence.

  16. Jimme (from Lyngby, Denmark) says:

    Loved the episode.

    I know Sawyer-Kate had a special connection. A love at first sight thing or whatever. But how long has they really know eachother? Is it 40-50-60 days? Don’t know how long the oceanic six were on the island.

    Sawyer and Juliet has been togheter probably every day for 3 years. And allthough it might have taken them a few months to “find” eachother they are obviously good for eachother. So plese don’t split them up.

    Also I’m a huge fan of friday night lights. Hope it will be renewed allthough it probably wont. πŸ™

    Love the podcast!

  17. yosemite chris says:

    WHAT is richard alpert? is he from the past of furture, died or alive,a god or immortal.put your brain to work poeple.

  18. Connie in Alaska says:

    ManilaRaf-I think the whereabouts of Ben during the time Sawyer’s gang is becoming part of the DI is one of the big questions posed in LaFleur. You would think they would have mentioned him if he was around, so maybe he comes later. It would help to know how old Ben is supposed to be in 2004 as opposed to how old he looks to be. I guess him to be over 40, but the timeline of Lost puts him in his mid to late 30’s. So confusing

  19. MallikaC says:

    I don’t know who Horace’s baby was, but I do have a theory about Locke. I think Locke could be Jack’s uncle.

    1. We were introduced to Ray, Jack’s grandfather in 316. I think that was a significant inclusion on the part of the writers.
    2. We also know that Locke’s mother had an affair with an older man.
    3. Jack needed to give Locke something of Christian’s so Locke could go as Christian’s proxy. Perhaps carrying on the line in some way?
    4. The Shepherds seem linked to the island’s mythos and we know that Locke is, as well.

    Other thoughts: I am really not a shipper and I didn’t think I’d like Sawyer and Juliette together. But I have to say, it makes sense. Both are not above deceiving a little to survive (not to mention they’re very good at it). Yet, they have big hearts and are self sacrificing.

    Jack and Kate? They also seem self absorbed in their thoughts and actions. I didn’t appreciate how they treated Locke in The Life and Death. Ugh.

    Last comment: I’m SO happy Sawyer finally commented on Alpert’s eyeliner. I’ve been waiting for that since he was introduced!

  20. Knives Monroe says:

    I’m convinced β€œThe Incident” is how the Oceanic 3 & the Time Travel 5 get back to 2007.

  21. Stefani from Mass says:

    Something that’s been bugging me is what about the “30 year old woman with the 80 year old uterus” that Richard was wooing Juliet from Florida (before she left her sister and was drugged with OJ and came to the island via the submarine). Since Amy had her baby (circa 1974), the pregnancy problems must not have been then, so when did they start? I’m thinking the Ben’s nerve gas did it – and screwed up the uterus (or is it uteri?)

    Also, what’s up with Harper (Goodwin’s psychologist wife) – is she for real, or was that smokey manifesting itself? But I know, it was last season, but I just rewatched that episode (where they went to the Tempest and Charlotte & Juliet had a chick fight) and Harper in the jungle creeped me out!

  22. Russell from California says:

    Hey Ryan and Jen:

    I may not have sold you on my Walt/Abbadon theory, but here’s one that’s really going to bake your noodle: I think the “incident” that Pierre Chang referred to is that a polar bear escaped his cage and turned the donkey wheel, dislodging the island from time and it has been moving ever since. It might sound a bit too comedic, but how else would you explain Charlotte finding that polar bear in Tunisia some 30 years later? I think we have a winner here.

  23. Russell from California says:

    One other idea I had watching this episode is that I think the “war” Widmore spoke of is something that is going to happen way back when (that we will not see until Season 6) and as a result of the war, we will get to see the four-toed statue get blown to bits.

  24. I like Knives’ comment very much. It’s transmission-worthy.

  25. Lydia from Massachusetts says:

    Stefani — I think D&C said in a podcast that Harper was for real. I think remember someone asked them that question and they said she was a living person. But then, I am not sure I completely believe what they said about Claire in the same regard! (Oh, and thanks for reminding us about that uterus problem. I would be surprised if that wasn’t explained somehow eventually! I have been wondering like someone who posted earlier if it might only affect Others/Hostiles.)

  26. Mirepoix from Mtl says:

    Lots of posts, increasingly interesting
    I will leave birth/burial issues and Egyptian mythology to more knowledgeable other posters
    I like the idea of Rose and Bernard being Adam & Eve

    However, all overlooked what I believe was the Key phrase of this episode
    i.e. Horace telling Sawier that they are
    Β«not exactly DHARMA MATERIAL …Β»
    What the hell was Dharma material ? Scientists ?
    Obviously LaFleur’s handling of Richard showed that he could be worthy of the DI
    Still would have been nice to see a little more curiosity by Sawyier on the whereabouts of RA
    However, Juliet did not reveal she was a doctor (why else would she act as a mechanic?)
    One would think that Horace the Mathematican would have been interested by Daniel the Physicist … was it revealed?
    or maybe Daniel simply thought he was better off the Island to continue his work
    Was Dan already born to Ellie ? (and Widmore) and on the Island as a child ?
    If he has left, we know he was back in the early 80’s when the Orchid was being built
    So maybe he did not left and was just not shown in the 1977 days (too busy with equations…)
    So the Flashies are still there 3 years later
    Obviously Sawier has found a way to make himself useful for security
    His knowledge of the Island must have helped and he must have gathered usefull information on the Hostiles

    By the way, Ben’s father did not seem to be Dharma material
    Horace was doing him a favour
    If they were there between 1974 @ 1977
    Sawier would have had to deal with Roger’s drunky behavior
    Were they purposely left out of the episode? I dont think so
    It would have been to tempting for the authors to hint at the Flashies encountering young Ben
    However, when Roger & Ben get there, LaFleur would be the right person to kick Roger’s butt and straighten him out, as weel as provide some more guidance to young nerdy Ben’s education.
    Would it ultimately lead to a better relationship between Ben and his father, thus torpedoing the purge?

    Another important event in this episode
    The Flashies have ALTERED HISTORY
    by killing the two Hostiles and saving Amy (from kidnapping or death?)
    Her baby was not meant to be born from Horace
    Who will be that young 27 yo in 2004 ? Wouldnt he have been purged also? Unless he was sent out of the Island…
    Will history continue to be altered ?

    Richard was still not aging
    Have you noticed that RA seems to be appearing at history-changing times
    Like when he rescued John who had been shot in the leg… still with the torch
    However, it seems that he did belong to htis 1974 period (according to Horace) and was the leader of the Hostiles
    So when was Widmore leading the Hostiles ? (for 30 years?)

    Regarding the airdrops in current 2004 times…
    I think that Ben having taken over after the purge kept things (relationship with the outside world) in a business-as-usual format
    Deliveries must have been arranged through the Lamp Post
    One might think that a number of Others came to the Island after the purge Tom Ethan Goodwin Mikhail (and Juliet) seemed to have lives outside the Island prior to joining later

    getting to the O3 shall we call them Backies ?
    Remember that Kate may be pregnant with a little Sheppard … (Aaron’s cousin)
    What about Sayid ?
    Will he be captured by the Hostiles or found by Lafleur’s security ?
    Lots of stuff to juggle during the next 2 weeks
    It seems that the crashed A316 story of 2007 will parallel that of the stranded 70’s Flashies and Backies for next few episodes

  27. MRPEMSTAR says:

    Not sure what everyone else is seeing. Out of all the Egyptian God’s/Goddesses this is the closest one that resembles the statue:

  28. Jimme (from Lyngby, Denmark) says:

    I was thinking.
    I know that Juliet was a stand out fertility doctor in 2004 before she was recruited in the first place.
    But what if RA knew that she had been on the island in the 70’ies already delivering babies. That would make it so obvious whay they decided to recruit her in 2004.

  29. christy in TX says:

    Just some more randoms:
    1. Is it possible that the reason Horace and Olivia “happened upon” Ben’s birth in Oregon is because Ben time traveled at some point and gave him the details a la John Locke and Richard Alpert’s conversation in Jughead?
    2. Perhaps the “Canton/Ranier” “Reincarnation” anagram from the beginning of the season is playing a part as we watch, maybe Jacob is a constant soul that must reincarnate on the island, or come to the island during it’s lifetime. Perhaps the voice of Jacob can communicate where the reincarnated being is, causing the natives to “exit” the island to retrieve the new human form. That could be why Claire was brought there and/or Kate returned (with a possible embryo.) I know it’s kind of “out there” but what in this show has not been “out there?”
    3. @ManilaRaf – I love your last point about “The Incident” being the time jump to present time for the Losties. Golden.
    4. @Mirepoix – excellent point that a young Faraday is probably running through the jungle with the other “hostiles” if he was born there, shoot – maybe he saw Young Charlotte just like the Grown Faraday did.

  30. ChiliDog says:

    @ Brian – under normal circumstances you’d be correct about it being impossible for Jacob to be born in 1977 yet recognizable in 1954. Also, he’s been waiting for Locke for a “very long time”

    However, on this show we have time travel, resurrection and coming soon…. reincarnation.

    Not to mention the fact that our reincarnated Jacob is trapped in course correction. Not supposed to be alive or dead because of Sawyer and Juliet.

  31. greenberry says:

    interesting seeing all those firmly in sawliet camp…. i still thing that kate and sawyer have the most smoking chemistry of all in the quadrangle — but sometimes chemistry is not what it takes to have a more mature lasting relationship — is this possible on LOST anyway?

  32. Alex MW says:

    ManilaRaf made a comment about the fact that pregnancies on the island must have been possible at some point. Do you think that it might be after Ben initiated “The Purge”? He used a gas to kill everyone, maybe there were some long lasting effects on the environment of the Barracks.

    I doubt it though, it seems too easy, but still just a thought :]

    Also I agree- If Kate ruins Juliet and Sawyer I’ll pull out my hair hahaha

  33. paintergirl1 says:

    Over 180 comments? Wow!

    Below is a quote from the episode “Other Woman.”

    “HARPER: So, Juliet, what do you think of Ben?

    JULIET: He’s great. Uh, very smart… and intense. Challenging. He’s been really good to me.

    HARPER: Of course he has. You look just like her. ”

    What if the “her” isn’t Ben’s mother or Annie, but Juliette herself? Given when Juliette is now with the DI at the barracks, it’s possible young Ben will get to know our time traveling Juliette. It would explain his instant infatuation with her. It might even explain some of Ben’s obsession with fertility.

    Just a thought!

  34. Tom N from the OC says:

    Hey Guys ~ I was listening to an older podcast and you where talking about how the writers of LOST where influenced by the Watchmen. Well I just saw The Watchmen, (don’t worry, no spoiler.) but I will say there was alot of “Ancient Egypt” references. It reminded me of the Ancient Egyptian references in the last episode; “Lafleur” #1. the “3 Toed Statue”, In It’s Full (backside) glory! It resembled an Egyptian statue of Enubus (the God of Embalming and the afterlife…hmmm) #2. the ankh… ( the symbol of “eternal life”…again, with the”hmmm”) AND #3. the real life (hippy…) “Defender” of the Darmah initiative; Horace or “HORUS” (…Or The Egyptian God, also known as,”The Avenger”. …Two other GREAT comic book references, by the way…The Defenders and The Avengers…) How does It tie in…I really have no Idea… I just thought It should all be mentioned again. thanks.

  35. Knives Monroe says:

    To Paintergirl1:

    Wow that’s such an intriguing statement. I’ve been wanting to watch that episode again. Now for even more reason.

    That’s an interesting theory!

  36. Alex MW says:

    Just a fix on my previous comment—–

    I mean to write that maybe the pregnancy problems arose AFTER The purge.
    Maybe the gas that was used had a long lasting effect on the environment of the Barracks and it caused the current situation

  37. Carol says:

    Paintergirl – I love your theory! I always assumed she meant Annie. But now, knowing what we do, that makes perfect sense.

    Alex, maybe the pregnancy problems are with the “others” since Ben got rid of Dharma. Maybe this is the island’s way of punishing the others for the purge.

    I can’t believe we are halfway through the season already, that went by so quickly. I am saving them all with “do not delete” status on my tivo so I can rewatch them all after the season finale. It takes so long for those DVD’s to come out.

    Nice interview with Josh Holloway on the ABC Lost video podcast.

  38. Pete says:

    I like the idea that the statue is Thoth. One of the upcoming episodes is named “some like it hoth” an anagram for “Smokie thoth lie” perhaps? Maybe Smokie is Thoth? (or maybe that is a lie?). Seems to emanate from the temple / underground and judge folks. That is one on Thoth’s jobs, passing judgement on souls in the underworld. Also, from Wikipedia: “Displaying his role as arbitrator, he had overseen the three epic battles between good and evil. All three battles are fundamentally the same and belong to different periods.” I wonder if this coming battle they refer to in the show is such a one? “blah blah blah…the third between Horus, the son of Osiris, and Set” or… Horace and Richard Alpert? He is obviously egyptian, with the eyeliner etc. that is obvious. What does he want with the body? Make a mummy of course. In keeping with the recent reincarnation hints, maybe we are seeing the playing out again of these epic battles between these gods, in their reincarnated forms? Maybe that is why all the losties and other folks need to get back together on the island, because they are the reincarnations of ancient personalities? Maybe not just Egyptian ones, but also judeo-christian and Hindu gods/personalities?

  39. The statue reveal made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. So freaky. I presume there’s a good reason why we haven’t seen its face yet, which means there’s more to be said about this long-ago civilisation. It strikes me as strange that although various ruins have been in the background of the story since season one. Not one character has ever speculated about these ruins, or even mentioned them.

    I also presume that the long-awaited reason for the Losties to be on the Island (oft mentioned by Locke), will turn out to be about stopping the Purge from taking place, despite the fact changing time is thought to be impossible.

  40. Carol says:

    The actor who places Richard Alpert (nestor carbonell) has been quoted saying that he doesn’t wear eyeliner, he has very dark bottom lashes. If you look at pictures of him over the years, he always has had dark eyes. He says he gets that question all the time.

  41. Pete says:

    Carol, I know they say insist just has dark lashes, but Sawyer says it, and they are trying to draw attention to it obviously.

  42. Knives Monroe says:

    Anyone know the ethnicity of Nestor Carnonell (Richard Albert) ? I’m guessing Hispanic/Latino. I’m Hispanic, and he looks like one too. πŸ™‚ Hehe. If anyone knows then it may help if we can place his character in a Egyptian type role, not that it would truly matter, but you never know. πŸ™‚

  43. Camille says:

    Nestor Carbonell is Cuban, but I don’t think it matters….

    Jaye Davidson in Stargate wasn’t Egyptian either…neither was Elizabeth Taylor in Cleopatra. I don’t think people even really know what ancient Egyptians really looked lke.

  44. Knives Monroe says:

    To answer myself, he’s of Cuban decent.

  45. Knives Monroe says:

    Sorry, too late. I stand Corrected πŸ™‚

  46. MRPEMSTAR says:

    Take a closer look at this pic of the statue:

    Doesn’t it look like it is holding a “walker”? The one’s that older people use to assist in their walking?

    Looks like one to me.

  47. Carol says:

    mrpemstar, you crack me up. I did look at the picture and you’re right about it looking like a walker. I think the statue is holding a stick or a staff. It looks like it has cat ears as well.

    re: the eyeliner comment, I think the writers might have thrown that in as a joke since they get so many comments about it, I have always felt that Sawyer asks the same questions the viewers do.

  48. The statue and hieroglyphics are Egyptian, but if you examine the Temple closely, it appears more southeast Asian in nature, very similar to Angkor Wat. Are we talking about some Atlantean proto-culture here that underwent another or even the same world-changing “incident” that brought down both the statue and the society? Unless you think the Others have maintained an unbroken line of succession over the island, which I do not (except for Richard Alpert, of course.) What was once unified and whole is now broken apart and scattered as in the Tower of Babel story. Consider all the languages spoken on Lost (English, Spanish, Portugese, Russian, Korean, Finnish, Mandarin, Latin, German, Farsi?, etc.). I know it’s the world’s program, but this speaking in tongues has always seemed more than a coincidence to me.

  49. lost in the Norwegian woods says:

    Hi! Just wanted to say the moment we see Charlotte was sooo beautiful!! Slow motion, the music, red against black…it really stood out – as it should of course.
    Thats all!
    Thanks for a great podcast.

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