Meadow Gold was a major dairy at that time in Kern County at least.

Checked over all the above comments as best I could and you appear to have missed something massively important.

The first time I watched this episode I was disappointed when it started off with Jack waking on the island, finding Hurley and Kate etc, followed by the church scene, only to jump back to the original waking on the isnald scene later.

but then I noticed that the second time it was different.

The first time, when Jack woke Kate she said ‘Are we…’ and Jack said ‘Yeh, we’re back’

The second time when he woke her she appeared more distressed and said ‘What happened?’

So I’m thinking they have had to make the journey twice?

Also, remember when Frank Lapidus was watching the TV report of the discovery of the fake 815, and he called the airline to say he knew it was not the actual plane, because he was supposed to be flying 815? Now he’s flying 316 to take the 6 back? No coincidence I’m sure.

For those put off by the Christian references, get real. There have been Islamic, Buddhist, Scientology, Tao, and numerous other religious allegories woven throughout the story. All science fiction is ultimately about a leap of faith, and from a writer’s perspective, it only makes sense to build a story line around established lines of faith that are relative and familiar to the audience.

That said, the choice of the name Christian Shepard is especially telling, as the Christian Shepherd is Jesus.

*i’m still listening, but it occurred to me that maybe LIBBY showed up to Hurley. I think that would spook him and move him even more than Charlie showing up.

* i am starting to get on board with the pregnant kate theory (though i must say it isn’t always that easy to get preg…), and i think that maybe ben might not actually have been saying “he’s not YOUR son” but rather “he’s not YOUR SON” — which i think means that ben has some insight into the future and knows that this kate/jack baby will be important in some particular way. because after all, a TRUE shepherd baby must be the son of a male shepherd not a female. if this is the case, i feel certain that someone — maybe Ghost Claire — came to Kate and told her to sacrifice Aaron so that she might bring her true child into the world or something. Kate has been living so many lies, there might be a part of her who just wants something that is real and true and hers, and her own baby would be that.

*something struck me strange when Ben was telling the Doubting Thomas story. when he said the part about going with Jesus so that they might all die together (John 11:16). i think this return will be Ben’s reckoning.

* i am still stuck on the story of ancient carthage (since charlotte mentioned it before she died, and since numerous people have been noodling around modern day tunisia on the show) and i think that while the former civilization on the island (that of the four toed statue and the temple) have been purged (much in the same way carthage was purged by the vengeful romans), there must be some vestiges of it housed in various spots, waiting and working to exact their vengeance. can’t wait for THAT story to be told, i’d prefer a flashback to a time shift…if that can at all be arranged.

The island was “locked” when the failsafe key was used and when the “donkey wheel” was used, the island started moving again. The swan’s purpose was to “fix” the error that happened during “the incident” and release the “built up energy” that had occured from this error.

This is what we have been lead to believe, this doesn’t fly with me, I personally believe this new theory applies.

This “built up energy”, I believe is the island trying to move again. (think of it as a electro-magnet that is slowly losing it’s ability to “attract” the opposit polarity) That’s why we saw all the “metal objects” moving to one side of the room, because the machine that DHARMA built was losing it’s “grip” on the island to move itself

Just thought I would add this (helps my theory).

~ THE Pemstar Initiative ~

It could even be that “the incident” occured because someone entered the wrong numbers and moved the island?

(Thinking “out of the box again”)

~ THE Pemstar Initiative ~

About lots of posts…I hear you! Everyone is so excited about this season and wants to get in on the fun. I love reading all the different points of view and theories. The down side is that it is a lot of reading which can be daunting. It seems impossible to get through it all without committing to an enormous amount of time. But if you don’t read them all and post your comment, you may be repeating what many others have said before you thus adding unecessarily to the large number of posts!

I don’t have a good solution and wouldn’t think of trying to keep people from posting just because they haven’t had time to read all the posts, but I do have a couple of suggestions:

1. Shorter is better. I admit I sometimes skip over really long posts. I am probably missing some really good stuff, but…sorry. If you have lots to say breaking your long post into two or three short posts is visually less intimidating.

2. It helps me to skim as many posts as I can to see if anyone before me has mentioned my particular theory. It is fairly easy to pick out names and quickly scan the content of those posts.

3. If at all possible, get on the blog early and check back often. That way you may only have 10 or 20 posts to read instead of jumping in on Tuesday night and seeing 160 posts. I know this isn’t possible for all of you, but it does help.

4. This is alread too long. Bye.

Just wanted to to comment on “key shoe scenes” one scene not mentioned is on season 3 episode 8 when Mrs. Hawking was first introduced in the jewelry store. She mentions to desmond that a man is wearing red shoes (then of course he is promptly killed). Just seemed like an important key shoe scene to add in there.

This was fantastic!!

I can’t wait to see what happened the night before the crash (Ben, Hurley, Sayid & Kate!). Who convinced them to get onto the plane?

and … not believing in something doesn’t make it go away.

I definitely think Ray knows exactly what Jack is up to! I’m not sure what the connection is, but we’ll see him again for sure. It would be fun if Jack runs into a younger Ray on the island.

I will hate it if the O6 end up in different time periods on the island. I hope they’re all in the same time and I think that perhaps the shooter in the other rowboat is Desmond returning to the island in a blind rage to avenge Penny’s death.

I was into the opening scene, but Mrs. Hawking’s scene felt drawn out and it didn’t seem like we learned anything that we didn’t pretty much know. There were no big reveals. The church scene was good but it felt heavy handed compared to their more subtle approaches in Season Two.

Also, what I like so much about Lost usually is that the writers know
how to tell a good narrative and raise questions that feel natural.
But in this episode, it felt like they cheated.

They skipped forward and jumped over stuff to try and raise questions
(ie: how did Hurley get out of jail? What happened to Ben’s face? Why
was Sayid arrested? Where’s Aaron?). And now that they’re back, it seems pointless to show any flashbacks to fill in these gaps.

(As far as Sayid, you can assume Ben showed up and provoked him so
Sayid would beat him up and therefore get arrested.)

But more importantly, where was Walt? He should be on the plane too if they were trying to replicate the original flight. How come nobody mentioned him?

In short, 316 felt like it was one of those things where the writers were tired of the “let’s get back” plotline so they just rushed through it to get it over with so we can get to the good stuff of the Dharma origins.

Now that I’m done with that, I do want to comment on one thing I thought of. This has been brought up but I do think that there is a holy trinity thing at work here with Jacob being God and Smokey being the Holy Spirit. It seems like Christian Shepherd then would be the Christ figure, but I actually think Locke will fill this role. Christian had to serve as a stand-in until Locke was ready. And I think last night’s episode really brought that out when they had Locke “step” in Christian’s shoes, as if he’s now ready to be the human embodiment of God/Jacob.

Also, I think this ties into the whole suicide thing. It could be said that Jesus “hung” himself on a cross because he knew he was going to die and still went through with it. I think there’s a parallel in Locke “hanging” himself, meaning it’s not technically a suicide because it was done to him, but with him knowingly going through with the death to “save” the others, it could be classified a suicide.

I was right in that Ben is going to be back on the island!

I do not think that this episode is as good as some of the more recent ones but it is not particularly bad. Boy, are they packing so much information in one episode, in S2 this would have been at least a couple episodes. It shows that the show is moving purposefully towards an end that the creators have in mind.

You guys are so busy with the family and so much other stuff that is going on, I really appreciate that you are taking the time to do the podcast. Lost would never be what it is without its fan podcasts and all of us chipping in. There are other great series out there but Lost has a highly involved audience, it makes for a richer overall experience and the lengths that the creators have gone to satisfy as and “play the game” is beyond anything else out there. You guys are an integral part of this whole experience.

All the best from Germany…

Ilias

I am betting the woman with Sayid will end up be his new love interest.

Tim great point about getting all the Dharma equipment there, plus remember all the parachute drops of supplies?

I suspend reality when I watch the show, but they should at least be consistent. On one hand you can’t have all this traveling off and on the island via submarine, and then say the island is constantly moving and difficult to locate.

My biggest complaint will be if they don’t justify Charlie’s death by having Claire actually leaving in a helicopter someday with Aaron. Right now there is no reason he couldn’t have gotten out and shut the door before the room flooded. He did it because Desmond had his vision, and if the vision doesn’t come true, I’ll be mad.

I think the shoes thing is a metaphor for Locke rather than Jack. I think putting on Christian’s shoes, who is the proxy or messenger for Jacob, means he now fills the shoes of Christian and will be the messenger or proxy for Jacob.

I think Claire came to Kate and told her that she needed to come back to the island but to not bring Aaron with her and told her of the way to have a proxy for Aaron. She learned in this conversation that Sawyer would die without her going back and so she did it.

I also think that pregnant women did not start dying on the island until after the Dharma Initiative started doing their experiments on the island. We will find out how they screwed up pregnancies while Jin is working for them.

With the pendulum, how exactly did Dharma use it to get to the island with all those materials to build so many stations? If it’s only a chance encounter how to find the island, then how did they get so many building materials? Will this be explained or will this just be the magic of television?

I think this episode will make much more sense once we have seen The Life & Death of Jeremy Bentham. Dartlon said that these episodes were interchangeable and were connected so I’m holding my judgment of this episode until we see next week’s episode.

I said the same thing when I saw him and he said ‘i am sorry for your loss” because I had just rewatched season 2 “One of Them” but Tariq was played by Marc Casabani and in “316″ “nabil” is played by P.D. Mani.

but my husband and I both said, “thats is the guy Sayid Tortured!” and then we said “wait a minute- no its not” but I noticed above someone above said it was Sayid’s voice coming out of him??? Is that true?? Can someone confirm that it was sayid who said that to Jack just prior to boarding flight 815?

I like how many of you are talking about the various similarities of 815 flight and 316 flight- there are quite a few- but to those who keep asking why isnt it exact “why not a step brother and sister?” etc…Eloise just said to try and make it as similar as possible…not exact.

Finally when someone above mentioned “Click your heels three times and say there is no place like home” I agree- this episode had that Ozlike feel to it- which harkens back to that same Sayid torturing Henry Gale (Ben Linus) and Tariq episode when we were all making Wizard of Oz connections…did I see a pair of RUBY SLIPPERS in this episode anyone?

More shoe references for Ryan….put these shoes on the dead guy on and “make a wish”…there’s no place like home…..or “I wish Jack had listened to me..”

I want to take a stab at what’s behind the curtain.

Sayid kicked the crap out of Ben. Hopefully Penny is OK.

The record analogy still applies, I think. Ben made the island jump the grooves, and now the needle is set in the grooves and the island is moving along just as before. It is clear that Jin and the gang have had three years to integrate with Dharma. Be really cool if Sawyer went all Danielle and lived on his own. Just don’t see him in a Dharma jumpsuit for some reason.

The paradox is ever so close. I have felt all along that the wreckage of flight 815 that was reported in Confirmed Dead is real. Course correction as it were.

The boy formerly known as Aaron has met his demise. Kate is definitely carrying a fertilized egg. She shall bear a child and name him, I don’t know, Aaron?

Hard not to see Jack as fitting both stories Ben related about Thomas.

I’ve read elsewhere that Ajira means “Afterlife” in Arabic. Just to make things more perfect: according to Webster’s, “ajIrA” is Hindi for “island”. (As I’m sure someone else has already figured out.)

I kind of hope that this show doesn’t fall fully into the “belief is good, doubt is bad” trope. It’s been relatively mixed so far– Locke’s belief has been his guide and has also gotten innocents like Boone killed.

I wonder if the Island will ever have a name?

I believe that in some point of the series, it is mentioned that for time travelling you needed a great deal of electromagnetic energy, so if they go through these Windows (and travel through time) there is obvious some kind of electromagnetic energy that makes the plan crash

Just a thought!

Thank you so much for all of your hard work–after listening to several Lost-related podcasts in the past, yours is my favorite by far!

My theory is 815 crashed before 316. Desmond might not have been the person to bring down 815, he simply opened a hole in the islands defenses to allow Penny’s people to find it.

However, Christian Sheppard was trying to get back to the island- or thats my theory. How he knew to get all those people on the same flight is beyond me.
Perhaps just repeating something that happened to him…

Also, you need to have certain people aboard the plane.

Without knowing if the 316 plane crashed or not… is it possible that the 815 plane could have crashed without Desmond?
Is it possible that Christian Sheppard got all those people together on that plane for that very reason to be transported back to the island?

Just a theory.

That was the stupidest thing about this episode.

Also, I was looking forward to a deeper message from Locke, like “DON’T COME BACK.” or “I WAS WRONG”…. or “IT WAS BEN”… or “YOUR FATHER SAYS HI”.

First I cannot believe that Desmond et al travelled on the boat all the way to LA to find Faraday’s mother as instructed and that upon meeting her would be content with such a slim explanation
Big disapointment there
I dont recall him going there merely to deliver a message
He must have been at least a bit intrigued by Daniel’s instructions

On Ben’s scars, why would he be just beaten up if he came to Penny with harmful (deadly) intentions ? Why not simply dispose and erase him for good ? Seems like the simple thing to do …

Second If the Losties find themselves in the Dharma time period where the Orchid was being dug from the ground, then there must have been a series of experiments conducted by Dharma scientists with the FDW which could triggger new flashes and eventually serve to throw the Losties back to their current time (since they knew what the wheel would be for)
This calls for other windows to open and other planes to «crash» over the island (some of these people ending up in the canoe pursuing our uncontrollably flashing gang)
Speaking of the Losties this seems to confirm our impression that Sawyier was filming Chang.
We know that Faraday was there too.
The rest of the Losties must also be there.

Third I dont believe that Saïd Sun and Ben wound up in a different time period Why would that be since it is the same window ?
However we must question Ben ending up during this period
Ben would surely end up meeting himself as a yonger (-30yrs) Ben
Could it be that the new replacement Ben (the younger Ben having gone into the Others camp) would wind up triggering the Dharma purge ?
In this case, could it be that some of the Losties wind up ito the mass Dharma grave ?
By the way
Jack is olding a torn part of the Locke’s message.
Was Ben trying to take it away when the flash happened and Ben will have the other piece of the message ?

Finally about Locke
It seems that pushing the wheel throws the turner into the Tunisian desert about 10 months ahead
In this case, Locke having turned the wheel in times preceding Dharma,
why would he wind up in 2007 in LA ?
Given his paralysis it is likely that he would need help to suicide himself…

‘I wish you believed me.’

When Jack ends up on the island (when Jack finally does believe him), he only has a torn part saying:

‘I wish’

Which leaves the rest of the notes saying:

‘You believed me.’

Also, the note keeps finding it’s way to Jack, like a message beyond the grave from Locke.

sorry, I just want to see Walt on the island again.

I really and truly believe that Ben went to kill Penny (“I’m going to kill your daughter. Penny, is it?”) and I am almost positive Desmond tried to kill him in the process.

Also I just skimmed through the comments and didn’t see this mentioned: do we think Kate had to give up Aaron to Claire’s mum?

OR (here is my real theory):
Did Claire come to visit Kate and take Aaron (i.e. take him and kill him so he could be with her?).
In this respect, did CHARLIE go to Hurley to tell him about everything? This would explain the guitar case – maybe Charlie wanted it on the island .

Can’t WAIT to hear your thoughts!!!!!

Love,
Ben.
P.S. When are we going to hear more from Claire. I miss her. I know she is whiny and annoying, but rewatching Season 4 makes me want her here!

This ROCKS!!!

What I want to know is who is that man that is in first class with the main characters? This is the guy that gave Jack his condolences in line while they were checking in.

Did anyone recognize the sheriff with Sayid? I know I’ve seen her on another LOST ep but cannot seem to place her!

And I still wanna know why pregnant women on the island die!! I am still waiting for this answer!

I like the Biblical references here. Lost has always been good at including multiple religions and although it might seem heavily Christian (Narnia, Thomas the Apostle) Christianity has borrowed heavily from other religions so it all ties back. I think the Shepherd line is really the key to the entire thing and I know that everyone sees Locke as the Jesus figure with the sacrifice and reincarnation etc.; but I think of him more like the John the Baptist, setting things up so people will be ready for the coming. I also don’t think Jack is the Jesus. I think everyone is facilitating this coming of the Island’s savior.

Anyway all these Bible references get so tangled. My biggest excitement is the thought that Kate might be pregnant, thereby making her Claire’s proxy but also making her apart of this line of Shepherds (hmm also making Aaron the “brother” of her child, like Moses’ brother Aaron. Moses was also a “shepherd”)

And I liked how the writers subtly created these proxies. It wasn’t just Hurley standing in for himself. He was also standing in for Charlie (with the guitar). Or Sun looking at the wedding ring (like Rose) and the new Indian/Saudi guy (like Sayid) and Sayid being in handcuffs (like Kate) and the officer (like Ana-Lucia/the Marshall) and Ben being late for the plane (like Hurley). It was good writing and visually there was so much in this episode to pick up on. The parallels between how Kate looked in Jack’s bed and how he found her on the rocks in the lagoon. Ben’s face and tone when he called Jack was one of the few times I think we’ve seen true emotion from him. He was genuinely scared.

This episode was just engrossing for me. I was frustrated when Jack wouldn’t read the note. I was hoping it said, “Never trust Ben, run!” I think this episode brought up a lot of good new questions while answering some that were equally good. I know that Daniel Dae-Kim said that the stroy starts to slow down a bit more and I think we’ll start getting back to that emotional resonance people were hoping for now that everyone’s back on the Island. I think we’ll get flashbacks to why the O6 chose to come back as well as what happened to Jin et al while they were stuck in the Dharma Initiative and even trying to see them work together to get back to the present day and off the Island AGAIN.

IMO, it just keeps getting more interesting.

On the other hand, I wonder if the fact that Aaron wasn’t there (and perhaps Ji Yeon and Walt, too, even though they aren’t O6ers) created “unpredictable” results – I have a feeling (and this has been mentioned already) that they aren’t all in the same time OR they didn’t all make it back. It’s entirely possible Sun, Ben, Sayid, and friends are just over the hill, but there may be another reason we saw only Jack, Kate, and Hurley.

I’m pretty sure that Jack’s grandfather is Jacob. If you look at the he’s room, the way the furniture is placed, the objects; the chair, the way that is seated and speaking to Jack. It looks just an updated/recent version of Jacob’s cabin.

Keep up the excellent work.

OK. Here is something I have been pondering…its not fully thought out, but here it goes.

So Jack was told had to include something of his father’s with Locke in the coffin, so I started to think about all the ideas posted previously about Kate being pregnant… what if each person had to have with them, something of an original Lostie. Bear with me… Jack had Locke’s letter; Kate has Jack’s baby(?); Sun has Jin’s wedding ring; Hurley has a guitar case (perhaps given to him by Charlie in a visitation?); the middle-eastern man was Sayid’s commander and could have something of his..
I haven’t thought through this fully yet, but thought it may be enough of a nugget to chew on. Thoughts anyone??

There’s also a reason Claire’s mother was in LA and has a connection to Ben’s lawyer. Coincidence? I think not.

Jesus’ side wound was made by a spear, Locke’s side wound was from kidney removal and a bullet hole. Foot care was an important ceremony of showing servitude and loyalty in Biblical days. Lots of shoe symbolism here.

Jack’s grandfather is a player. Remember when Jacob whispered to Locke in the cabin, “help me.” And Jack’s grandfather is always running away from the home — he’s screaming for “help”, too. Magic show, bunny rabbits, humm…

I hope that Ben tried to kill Penny, but could not because “the island is not done with her” similar to how Michael could not kill himself and she did the damage to him.

My biggest disappointment with the episode was that after Ben tells Jack the story of Thomas, about his need to touch Jesus’s wound, and that they show the artwork with this, a finger in the side of Christ, that I so very much expected Jack to open the collar of Locke’s suit and touch the wound that would be there if he’d killed himself by hanging. But then… perhaps that’s not quite what happened…

Question: can anyone recall Locke writing anything in past episodes? Have we seen his handwriting? If so, does it match.

I had big problems with the emotional responses of the characters in the episode. They seem much to dis-interested in the baffling situations of their mutual co-incident convergences. Desmond arrives at the church and no one says hello????

As for religious metaphors… the show is suffused with allegory and metaphor. I’m sure the producers and writers have huge fun embedding irrelevant correlations, knowing that we will grab on to every little piece and find meaning.

Let the connections continue!

Oh, one last thought: Kate is not Aaron’s biological mother. Yet she is so very very bound to Aaron. I’m not suggesting a bound isn’t appropriate, but certainly she would do what is in Aaron’s best interest. I do suspect that somewhere in her past she may have been pregnant or is a mother, and Aaron has filled a hole in her psyche. As for her being pregnant “now” (whatver “now” is!) with jack’s child, as a proxy for there being a recapitulation of the original Oceanic 815, seems to make sense.

Kate pregnant: Why? There are other passengers in the main cabin. Any one of those women could be pregnant. Who says pregnancy had to be recreated, anyway? What about a couple where the woman has cancer? What about a minor t.v. star and her thief lover? What about a guy who runs his mother’s wedding company and his snotty, rich sister? What about a drug lord turned priest? There were lots of other people on 815; they didn’t try to re-create everything because THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE. They did what they could on very short notice, and all the similarities (Ben arriving late like Hurley did the first time or the guitar case that Hurley was carrying, probably as an homage to Charlie) were more like Easter eggs that fans like us can thrill at, can savor. If you try to make everything fit, you will be disappointed.

Ben getting up: I imagined he went to the lavatory…like Charlie. Doesn’t really matter where he went, but we didn’t see him in any of the seats, and unless he was hanging out with the flight attendant, there aren’t any other choices up front. Frank certainly didn’t invite him up to ride shotgun.

Frank: Will he transfer to the island? Maybe not. Maybe he was just there to proxy for his friend who piloted the first plane with the bonus that he was once on the island. I mean, let’s face it, there was going to be a pilot no matter what, so it’s not like a proxy was something they had to go looking for, but he’s the coolest replacement pilot option, right?

The other people in the main cabin: I know the producers call them “socks,” but I like the Jay and Jack term of “log carrying guys,” so I’ll stick with that. I hope that the other people in the main cabin make the leap to the island in some way. We need more log carrying guys. With Miles’ belated detection of trip-wires, I think we’re almost out!

The other people in first class: OF COURSE they’re going to be bigger players. And I say great! I like seeing new characters introduced. I like when questions are posed and plots get complicated and credulity gets stretched and LOST plays with my mind. That’s why I watch the show. It doesn’t take a genius to know when someone is going to play a bigger role, but it would take a genius to predict what that role would be. I love being able to recognize that something is going on and know that I’m still going to be thrilled when I find out what is going on.

Ray Shephard, the grampa: Why him? Why not just have Jack go to his mom’s house, tell her he’s taking a little trip, and grab something of his dad’s from the house? Easier, makes sense for Jack to do, so this set up makes me think we are getting more of Ray later. Or someone just couldn’t deny the family resemblance and had to give this guy a job!

Christian’s shoes: To me, this was the most interesting component. They could have acquired a dead body. (I’m not saying I or the average Joe could do this, but Ben and his merry band of butchers seem like the kind of people who could finagle such a thing.) Then there would have been a body in a coffin. What seemed important to Mrs. Hawking was that CHRISTIAN be represented. Someone of his needed to be on the plane. If the scenes in the cabin and in the FDW area didn’t convince people, this should have made it clear that HE is particularly important in some way, and I’m intrigued as to how. He’s the only one who SPECIFICALLY was mentioned as needing a proxy. He’s the key.

I love reading everyone’s thoughts, and thanks to Ryan and Jen for hard work week after week!

After watching the episode last night I thought it was a bit silly.

The whole Mrs. Hawking scene was goofy. I prefer when she is mysterious and not so Mary Poppins.

The more I think of it the more I see that there was a whole lot in the show. I can’t wait for Jeremy Benthem.

BTW – Anything in ‘Next Week On Lost” should be fair game.

Camille — interesting idea bout Naomi. What did her ring say again?

Ryan- loved your posting re: the show. I also read Doc Jensen and he just gets off on too many tangents for me. I think you make a lot of good points without delving too much into literary references.

I don’t think Penny is killed off, but I do think Ben went after her.

I also looked like Sayid wanted to tell Jack something important when he first saw him but couldn’t do to his guard.

Great ideas on this board everyone. You are giving me lots to think about.

I thought that Ben (and lawyer) would bring Mrs. Littleton all the way to LA for a reason – it makes the most sense that Kate would give Aaron to his grandmother. And it’s the right thing to do regardless of Ben’s manipulations.

I am certain that Ben’s messed up appearance is due to meeting up with Desmond/Penny. How this went down is unclear, but I am equally certain that we will see it.

It’s pretty simple to assume that Sayid was in custody for the murder of any number of people – Ben has the proof of most if not all of it.

I am sure that Hurley was visited by “ghosts” and my bet is on Charlie.

Why is Locke Christian Shephard’s proxy? Specifically why does Locke need something of Christian’s? If you follow the logic all the way to Ben – what does Ben have that belongs to someone else and to whom does it belong? Could it be what was in the case that he was hiding in the hotel vent?

There were some interesting things in this episode, but it was sleepy and very un-LOST-like for me. Can anyone report on whether more commercials are being inserted during the hour? Seems like it.

We are to assume that Ben L. and Richard A. have the ability to come and go from the island. How do they do it? It can’t be from turning the wheel and riding airplanes back into an interception zone. Is there another portal?

If Ben L. killed Penny, and Desmond follows him back to the island for revenge, I may stop watching this program. Penny has become a favorite character of mine. Last time we saw her, she looked like Tinkerbell. I’m hoping Desmond simply kicked Ben’s butt and that’s that. But there has to be a reason for Desmond to “get back” to the island, or his character has no further use.

All the ideas generated makes it worth the less than exciting episode.
And I am no Jater shipper.
Now I can’t wait to rewatch and look more at all the Easter eggs and clues.

I think Ben is trying to fix his mistakes not because he altruistically wants to save the Island but because he wants control of the Island and all it offers. The same motive for Widmore’s actions which makes the Lost story one big Chess Game – an idea I like much better than the Christian allegory and one I hope gets more play in coming episodes.

The island is inside all of them. At the last minute, they changed their minds and wanted to go back. And it was always there for them, they just had to believe in it. Great episode about faith. I loved the pacing specifically.

I agree, TVSciFi.com, I think that Ben killed Penny. The marks on his face looked to me like scratches from fingernails. If Ben did kill Penny it seems likely that Desmond will return to the Island to get revenge. He saw the pendulum and heard Mrs. Hawkings explanation so he would know how to return. I’ve always had a feeling that Desmond will ultimately be the one to kill Ben. If he does I hope it’s toward the end of the series, I would miss Ben’s one liners.

I liked the theories about Kate being pregnant with another mini-Shephard. The look in her eyes when she told Jack that he can never ask about Aaron again was heartbreaking. I’m not sure if I agree that Kate’s working for Widmore. I think her behaviour is more related to her being completely emotionally drained. She just gave up the child she’d been raising as her own for three years, I wouldn’t expect her to be acting “normal” for a while. I hope that the prophecy about how Aaron can’t be raised by another doesn’t mean an Other. Especially if it were Widmore, poor Aaron (. Seriously, it’s a miracle that Penny turned out so normal. Personally, I’m hoping that Aaron is with Claire’s mom. Last week we saw how devastated she still is, maybe having Aaron would bring her some comfort. As a side note, I’m not happy that we have to wait until next season to find out what happened to Claire. (I’m assuming b/c Emilie de Ravin isn’t returning until season 6) She seemed so weird when Locke saw her in Jacob’s cabin. Maybe the smoke monster got to her like he did to Rousseau’s people. Right now I’m thinking that Hurley returned because he finally listened to Charlie and is returning to help Claire. Probably wrong, but who knows?

I really enjoyed reading everyone’s theories and I love The Transmission! Keep up the great work Ryan and Jen, I can’t wait for your take on all this.

In the church when Ben tells Jack about the story of Doubting Thomas, knowing that if Thomas and the Apostles travel back with Jesus that they may be murdered, he is totally talking about himself. He was a non-believer that needed to be convinced. And when Jack asks if he was convinced, Ben says “we’re all convinced sooner or later, John.”

Now, I listened to this a few times and I swear he calls Jack, John at this moment . But then he says “see you at the airport, Jack”. Hmmmmm

Man, Michael Emerson is such a good actor. I totally don’t know if I should be terrified of his manipulative ways or feels deep sympathy for him! Genius!

I watched the ‘enhanced’ version from last week and I am pretty sure they said that Eloise is Daniel’s mom.

I think Kate is tavelling under an assumed name. Ben does have access to passports and gov’t documents. Maybe he set her up to help her get on the plane??

Did anyone else notice that as soon as Jack read the note from Locke, that is when the plane ‘went down’. Also, Ben walked away to give Jack some privacy to read the note, did Ben do something to cause the plane to ‘crash’??

Another major question is that if the Island is always moving in time, how was Widmore’s freighter able to sit 30 miles away from it for weeks without the island moving away from it?

I have a theory that the only way to stay on the Island, is through death. I believe Richard is dead like John Locke is and when Locke’s body gets back to the island, he will stay the same age and be there for years to come but everyone else who lives on the island will die at some point.

I think there are 2 possible reasons why Ben was threatening to take Aaron. One might have been just to scare Kate… return to the island, or lose Aaron to me! Or, maybe Ben wants Aaron because he knows that Aaron must return to the island, and he knows that as a loving Mom Kate would do anything to keep him off the island. So maybe Kate gave the baby to Clemetine thinking that is the only way to keep him hidden from Ben… she has not seen a tie between Ben and Clementine’s Mom.

Finally, a new thought…. in response to something Andrew wrote… I don’t think that when Jack, Kate, Hurley find themselves back in the 1970s, they will be with Jin, but not Sawyer, Locke and Juliet. The latter three are also stuck in the 70s because at the end of a previous episode, did they not see Jin in the forest? Perhaps as some of you wonder, Sun Sayid and Ben will end up in a different time zone, but I do not think so… I just suspect they find themselves in a different place on the island, and just won’t connect with each other again for a few episodes. After all, Sun has to connect with Jin… and there is no way the original crash victims and Frank will not not reunite for the rest of the ride!

They have a few extras to play with now that we have not seen. One key player that they made sure we saw.

They are back in the Dharma days, I am guessing, when they get back to the island.

The best part of the episode was Jin showing up at the end. It was mysterious and gave me a bit of hope that future episodes will be better. Gotta remain positive.

Why is Sayid being deported? The simple answer is a violent crime.

Why is Ben beat up? Sayid, an Iraqi national, not a U.S. citizen, committed a violent crime.

Why did Hugo go? Is it possible that “Charlie” told him to do so? I say yes.

Sun just outed herself, saying she wanted to be with Jin.

With regard to the other questions regarding the return to the Island, there will be many, many means and ways to get there, but we don’t have enough information to get us there.

I think we need to be careful regarding the Kate/Jack/Aaron situation, due to the complexities of the mother/aunt/father/uncle issues. Oedipal issues anyone?

The christianity of the episode is very small in comparison to the ancient mythologies that have been referenced. Indeed, for a non-believing audience member, christianity may be viewed as another ancient mythology. It’s just a portion of the Lost mythology. Again, if we reduce things down, I think we will be able see the meta-narrative of Lost.

Frank Lapedis “We’re not going to Guam are we?”

I can only assume that the:

Middle Eastern guy played the role of Sayid.

Sayid plays the role of Kate

Sayids Bounty Hunter obviously is playing the role of Kate’s bounty hunter

Hurley plays the role of Charlie

Kate plays the role of Claire (and is therefore assumed pregnant)

Jack plays the role of Sawyer (carrying the letter in his pocket like Sawyer did)

Locke plays the role of Jacks Father

Ben plays the role of Locke (guessing on this one)

thoughts?

That said, I’m feeling pretty good about my Locke=4 Toed statue theory at this point despite Sawyer’s injured foot a few episodes back. What do you guys think? All theses resurrection/biblical references sure seem to point that way not to mention the brief glimpse we got of Ben kneeling before Locke telling him “you have no idea how important you are” in the preview for next week’s episode. If Ben is kneeling to him, he must be a God. Guess we’ll see next week.

The plane thing really, really bugged me. I was just working up my suspension of disbelief for the time skipping, and now they throw in some sort of magic flash that sucks them off the plane and places them on island. I hope this has some sort of science-fiction explanation that doesn’t rely on magic.

But what I really hated was Jack. I think he would have demanded to know where Aaron was. And, he would have read the letter right away. It strains logic that he wouldn’t be at all curious, or think there might be further instructions in the letter.

Also, I think:

1. Ben killed Penny. This will give the Desmond the rage needed to return to the Island
2. Widmore has Aaron and is forcing Kate to be his spy.
3. Jack’s grandfather is Jacob.
This is how the series will end
http://www.tvscifi.com/content/view/61/28/

“Finally, to the person that said their atheist sister-in-law refuses to watch the show from now on because of the Christian allusions, I have to agree that she must never have been a true fan. I also question whether she is a true atheist, because someone who doesn’t believe in The Bible would see it as just another book and should no more be offended by references to it than the references to the many other books…”

I think that the problem is that the show has really taken a turn towards Christian religious symbolism. Before there was always a sense of spirituality, but now we’re being hit smack in the face with it. I don’t mind at all – in fact I’m a huge fan of the Narnia books for just that reason, but I can see why my sister-in-law feels that the show has gone to far with the religious aspect.

I also wondered about Kate leaving California so easily. I would have thought that she would be on some sort of watch list that would have triggered a red flag when she tried to leave the state on a plane. Since Guam is a US Territory, no passport is needed.

I do wonder why none of the Oceanic 6 (now 5) asked about getting back home. We know Ben told Jack that he’s never coming back, so if that’s the case for the others what’s up with Sun? Would she leave her child forever? I can’t believe that, but it may be what we’re supposed to assume.

I would be very very angry is Ben killed Penny. The Desmond/Penny love story is my favorite of all of the Lost relationships.

I’ll also be curious to see if Jin’s English has dramatically improved since he seems like he’s a full fledged Dharma worker now. I wonder how long it’s been that he’s been working for Dharma – a week, a month, a year?

John

[Comment edited.]

Since everyone the losties are opn the island during the Dharma time frame, does this mean that they are going to be killed by Ben when he “cleanses” the island?

Things I didn’t like:

The fact that the O6 had to closely reenact the first flight – this seems like simply a facile way to get them all there. Why must they do this? What’s the pseudo-scientific reason for this?

Ms. Hawking’s scene – I agree, it was very cursory. It seemed like just a monologue – you could almost imagine the blocking in the script: “blah blah blah, walk down stage; blah blah blah, walk to Jack, etc”

Why are they introducing new characters??!!! They haven’t even fleshed out the freighties yet! I want complex backstories to these people, with details that aren’t always in service to the overall mythology (ie Farraday). That’s why we love our castaways; we know so well.

Ben can’t go back to the island, remember?? Was that a lie? And, also: if Ben doesn’t know about the Lamppost, and the island can only be found with the Foucault pendulum and the equations, how have Ben and the others (Richard, Ethan, Tom) been hopping back and forth to the real world (demonstrated by Ben’s passports, Richard and Ethan’s recruitment of Juliet, Tom’s visit to Michael)?

On a positive note: if it’s true that they’re going back to flashbacks for the remainder, then that’s promising, and actually displays some nice symmetry. The first 2 1/2 seasons were flashbacks; last of season 3 and all of 4 were flashfowards; first of 5 is “present” narrative; and then a move back to flashbacks. Like the pendulum, we’ve swung from one direction to another, with a pause in between, then back again!

One thing that is driving me bananas (not from a mythology standpoint, but from a character standpoint) is how easily Sun made the decision to go back to the island. I get that she wants to find Jin, but she’s making a decision to leave her 3 year old child with no parent. I have a 4 and 2 year old and when I took a 2 day business trip to San Juan I cried in the airport, and on the plane, and then again in my hotel. She’s going to crazy Lost Island where she knows very well she may never come back and she doesn’t seem even remotely conflicted. But then again, she’s been flitting all over the world on her quest to get vengence for Jin’s death, so I guess it stands to reason that she’s so obsessed with it that she’d just go. Ji Yeon doesn’t appear to be her top priority right now.

Also, the date of the US Military photo was EXACTLY 50 years prior to the flight 815 crash. 9/23/1954. Not sure if important, but I would venture to say that a 50 year old photo from the US Gov’t does not mean the gov’t knows where the island is currently, as we now know it is a roaming island. It might have been a photo the young Miss Hawking “Ellie” took from one of the US soldiers they killed in 1954 as the deployment of Jughead was being arranged.

Sayid could have been being escorted back to Australia via Guam due to the murder of the person outside Hurley’s mental hospital or any other crime he committed, perhaps one arranged by Ben. They still had “dirty laundry” and Ben could have even framed Sayid.

I wonder if Ben, in his assumed attempt to avenge Alex’s death by killing Penny, was shaken up because he was not expecting a toddler at the scene… Little Charlie better be okay! Penny – eh, Desmond – eh, but Charlie, come on now, that was the cutest kid – even though Widmore’s grandson (and now possibly Christian Shepherd’s if, as some theorize, Desmond really is Jack’s “brotha”)

Speaking of family connections, I agree that it is still not 100% confirmed that Miss Hawking is Faraday’s mother, but I also agree that she appeared less than interested in Desmond’s message…curious.

Loved the episode over all, felt like I was on a roller coaster the whole time.

Also I think Kate left Aaron with Clementine’s mom.

This show is so fun!

One other question, why didn’t any one of the Oceanic Six ask how they could get OFF the island once their mission was completed? There was no rescue plan was set in place. I would think that Sun would have wanted to know before she left her daughter behind.

Jack is so self centered in this episode, he acts like everybody should be happy to be going to the island, and is so obviously happy to be with Kate, yet not really being sympathetic to the pain she is going through losing Aaron.

It seems we have important decendents of the island having names all beginning with the letters in Jacob’s name. We have Sun’s new daughter conceived on the island, Ji Yeon, Aaron, Christian/Charles Widmore and Ben and the”O” stands for the “Others”.

Well as we seen in the lamp post with miss Hawkings there was a picture of the island that Jack looked at that had “US Army” written along the bottom of it. So if the US army is involved in any way it’s safe to say that letting Kate leave the country wouldn’t take much effort for it to be permitted.

My other thought concerns Kate and Aaron. Many people seem to think that Kate left Aaron with Claire’s Mum. I disagree and tend to think that Kate left Aaron with Sun’s Family.
In episode 5 we hear Sun talking to her daughter ( Ji Yeon) on the phone and telling her that she has “found her a new friend” This seemed quite strange to me at the time. But makes more sense now.
We know that Kate doesnt trust anybody more than Sun so it would make sense.
I think Aaron and Ji Yeon will grow up together and play a big part towards the end of season 6 when they are adults.
After all why would Kate say to Jack “Don’t ever ask about Aaron” if all she did was leave Aaron with Claire’s mum? Why wouldn’t she just tell Jack that? The only reason it was kept a secret that i can think of is that it’s for a big future reveal and leaving Aaron with Claire’s mum wouldn’t be a reveal. Ji Yeon and Aaron together as adults would be.

A lot of folks have already referenced the lamp post from “The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe,” but there is another book, “The Magician’s Nephew” that tells the story of how the lamp post came to be in Narnia. Two children, Digory Kirke and Polly Plummer travel to another world that is a dying world call Charn. It has been destroyed by Queen Jadis who used “the terrible word” to win her war against her sister and destroyed all life on Charn but her own. The children try to escape Charn and leave Jadis there, but she grabs them and is brought back to England in our world where she precedes to wreak havoc. There is then an altercation in which the two children, Jadis (and a piece of lamp post she has ripped off a lamp in London), the nasty Magician of the title, and a cabbie and his horse are all brought into a brand new world that has not yet been formed. Aslan is creating the world that will be Narnia. Jadis throws the piece of lampost at him and it sticks in the ground and grows into the lamp that Lucy and the Pevensie’s encounter when the leave the wardrobe. Jadis brings evil into Narnia (there is more to her story if you want to check out the book–it’s available from audible!). I can’t help but see a similarity here with Ben and Widmore. They are at war and don’t care who or what gets destroyed if they can win. I’m with Hurley on this one–Ben should not be there. Like Queen Jadis, he will bring evil and destruction.

According to the penguin dictionary of Symbols….

Shoes have a “funerary siginificance. A dying person is a bout to take his leave. ..shoes at the bedside (or in coffin perhaps) show that that person is no longer well enough to walk; they are the sign of death. If they symbolize travel, it is not towards the other world alone, but in every direction….Without shoes thier journey is broken and they wawit for Heaven to provide them with the means to continue on the next stage of their journey.”

So maybe since they had to recreate the flight as before putting jacks father shoes on john who is now the one in the casket is like hurley bringing charlies guitar. I also wonder what is next in Johns journey. We haven’t seen john wear those shoes in earlier episodes right?? or Christian wearing them???

*Why didn’t Mrs. Hawking ever once mention Daniel or really acknowledge him? That’s her son right? What about, at least, some kinda motherly comment? I am still not convinced that she’s really his mother.

*What is this church that she is inhabiting? How come no other people are walking in just by the way? What happened to the Dharma bums who built it? How did she get it? Who else is she working with and why?

*I think I noticed a Virgin Mary in her messy office that looked similar to the drug plane Virgin Mary statues….

*Something is weird about Jack’s grandfather….I am curious to know what.

*The way Desmond was so strongly advocating against specifically Jack going back to the island made me think that they might be related. There is definitely a very significant bond between the two….

*I think the canoes and water bottles are from the next Agira shipment of people who will come to the island — Desmond, maybe Walt? or maybe I’m wrong and it is more Widmore henchmen? It is definitely someone in the future.

*Every time I see Jack down on his back in the middle of the jungle, it always makes me think of Psalm 23:2 – He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

*I think Jack is (of course) The Doubting Thomas and he will become a believer when he returns to the island and sees either the living John or the living Christian (or maybe both). It is interesting to note that in the Bible, Thomas is known as The Twin (though the name Thomas already means “twin”).

*I agree with the others who think that Ben got beat up while trying to take down Penny. “A promise to an old friend”, sounds like the promise he made to Widmore. I don’t think it went to well.

*Finally, to the person that said their aetheist sister-in-law refuses to watch the show from now on because of the Christian allusions, I have to agree that she must never have been a true fan. I also question whether she is a true atheist, because someone who doesn’t believe in The Bible would see it as just another book and should no more be offended by references to it than the references to the many other books (The Stand, Our Mutual Friend, The Bad Twin, Ulysses)that have already been made in this program. Frankly, the Bible has been referenced since the very beginning, so if she is just getting angry now than something else is going on…

I agree with Ryan and am so thankful that the last scene of the last show will not be Jack opening his eyes. Thank God!

I’m almost positive that Ben’s unfinished business was to murder Penny before he left for the island. As someone above mentioned, he was at the boat dock. I’m hoping and praying that due to his bloody condition that he was unsuccessful.

I really like the Kate pregancy ideas expressed above and do think Aaron is with his grandmother. I also was thinking that the other passengers might be in another time period. I think there is going to be a longer interval before Sun and Jin are reunited.

Darleton had said that this episode was interchangeable with the next one and so they switched it. Darleton wrote both so we know that together, the two episodes must be really important. I can’t wait for next week.

We all know it is a mix of mythology and theology and science but this episode was like just read so much as EXPLANATION.

Also who else was annoyed that they wasted a valuable 2-3 minutes re-showing what we’d just seen in the beginning just to get the big Jin reveal (OK, I love Jin but no more “Jin reveals” that trick is PLAYED OUT)? I felt like that time could have been used to give us more story.

LOST has utterly and completely changed the way I watch television and I think they should keep it intelligent and trust that we devoted fans (whether its just the regular week to week watcher or the total crazed forum-rats like us) will get it and keep going along for the ride.

I believe that the two new characters (the two others in the front of 316) are linked to this agency and they know the oceanic 6 are lying, and that they have been following them for some time to get to the island.

We defiantly know the USA government had been to the island in the past, so I think a connection with the USA government will be reveled in the near future!

How was Kate able to leave the country so easily given that she is not supposed to even leave the state of California for what? the years?

Can’t wait to find out what happened such that Kate, Hurley and Sayid ended up on Flight 316 . . .

Like Jeff, I was disappointed in Mrs. Hawking’s demeanor. She came off more like the good fairy godmother (boring) than the creepy wicked witch (intriguing) of Flashes Before Your Eyes. Definitely unsatisfying. Also not as many fireworks between her, Desmond and the others as I was expecting…ho hum.

Geoff Gentry-I like your idea that Kate is pregnant. She would be filling the role of pregnant Clair as well as her own, and the baby will be a Christian Shepard grandbaby just like little Aaron is.

Like others, I think Kate gave Aaron to Mrs. Littleton and she did so as a result of Ben’s manipulations. Ben brought Mrs. L to LA, made sure that Kate would find out she was there with the threat of losing Aaron, then Ben rammed it home at the marina repeating at least twice that Aaron didn’t belong to her. Kate gave him up out of guilt. Score another point for Mr. Linus.

It’s pretty obvious now that the O6 are back in the heyday of the Dharma Initiative (late ’70s/early ’80s), but that doesn’t explain the Ajira water bottle in the canoe at Camp Lostie circa 2004+. The O6 could have been pulled to one time and the other crash “survivors?” pulled to another, but I don’t like that theory. The bottle could have survived through the decades and been picked up in the future by an unknown person. Also, if the Canoe People are our O6 or other Ajira passengers, who got shot? Could they have all been Red Shirts so it doesn’t really matter? Curious about the other two people in the Ajira first class cabin: the officer escorting Sayid (why would she be taking him to Guam of all places?) and the mysterious man who gave condolences to Jack in the airport.

Aaron was born, and therefore couldn’t go on the plane BUT they needed him, so a woman had to be pregnant.

It was obviously a sacrifice Kate had to make when leaving Aaron. Ben obviously new about this as he was trying to have Aaron taken away already.

This was my favorite episode so far this season – from the funny inside jokes (“is Ben lying?” … “probably”) to the constant jaw drop moments. The pilot, the meetup at the airport, Ben finishing some “business”. Good stuff.

Ritual just kept coming up. Trying to recreate the conditions is like performing a ritual. I liked Hurley’s concern for how it is “supposed to be.”

The parallels of the story of Doubting Thomas to Jack was great.

I was so scared for Kate, with her looking so emotionally drained and nearly dead on Jack’s bed and then saying that he can never ask her that question again. I think she had to see the lawyer and decide to give custody over to Claire’s mom as Ben had planned all along. This is the most painful thing she had to do and she never wants to talk about it again. What did Aaron know about her leaving; what will he remember in the future about her and will he go looking for her? It is a cycle of being abandoned and trying to search for a lost parent, like Charlotte’s story.

The end where Jin pulls up in the bus is so wonderful!

Also- remember back in the episode “The Man from Tallahassee” whenBen asks Locke to imagine a box that can deliver anything your mind could wish for? (in that episode Locke’s father appears) Well- I wondered about that “suicide note” and how it said that he “wished” Jack had listened to him. And when he lands on the island the only part he still has is the “I wish” part. I think there is something to this part of the Magic of the Island- when Kate sees the horse for example…she wanted or wished to see that.

My other thought- though I like my first one better- is that Locke did not write that note at all- Ben did because he is a manipulative crazy son of a you know what.

Favorite lines: “We aren’t going to Guam are we?” and “You better fasten your seat belt!”

I missed the island folks but still enjoyed the fact that we have some new big mysteries to ponder- its what makes this show great!

Love the podcast….maybe more addicted to it than the show…at least it’s longer!

Lapidus as the pilot. Great! Ben’s “Who cares?” in response to Jack’s inquiry about what will happen to the other people on the plane. It would also appear that we’ll see a few new characters introduced (the guy who was on the plane that gave Jack the condolances while in line at the airport) and the marshal who was taking Sayid.

Jin driving the Dharma bus in new condition and the little smirk he gave at the end was great. Guess that means they are definitely in Dharma Initiative times, eh? I had originally thought that maybe Jack and the others would end up on the island but in future time, guess that isn’t happening, or is that future Jin? Given the condition of the VW, I have to believe it’s 30 years in the past.

Guess they are prepping for March sweeps so I think this and the next episode are definitely set-up episodes for probably the wilder ones in March (in order to get the ratings).

Oh, and I liked the nod to Brian K. Vaughn’s “Y: The Last Man” which he wrote and Hurley was reading at the airport (though it looked like it was the Spanish version).

Sure, there were a few great moments, like Ben’s telling of the Thomas the Apostle story and Jack putting his Dad’s shoes on Locke, but overall, I saw these last two episodes as a device for hopefully setting the scene for the remainder of the season.

And lastly, Mahalo, Ryan and Jen! Found this website at the beginning of the season, and love the blog and the podcast. Keep up the great work!
Some other thoughts…

Rabbit: nice catch on Ben’s line re: learning to read. I appreciated the humor at the time, but didn’t think about the inherent lie in it. Another nice subtle reminder to never trust Ben.

I also like Kellyish’s theory on Kate, Aaron, and Sawyer’s baby mama. It would be completely within her character to want so badly to hide that from Jack, she’d get him in bed just to change the subject.

I was extremely dissapointed with Mrs. Hawking’s explanation of the Island and the Dharma station. It felt entirely too nonchalant and lacked the passion of her past appearances with Desmond in “Flashes Before Your Eyes” or with Ben at the end of “The Lie.” And I was dying for one of the characters to question Desmond about his previous ties with her; you’d think they either didn’t hear his comments or already knew of the connection.

Ditty: I certainly hope you’re correct that this episode will lead to several character-centric flashback episodes that fill in the gaps from “316,” but I almost wish they’d gone that way from the beginning, instead of giving us this one long narrative with so many questions.

I think both Hurley and Kate boarded the plane because of some apparition that they had that forced them to do it. Moreover, Hurley left Jail because Sayid was caught and perhaps confessed. By the way, loved the look on Sayid’s face when everybody shows up.

Another thing that I loved was that the O6 (or at least Kate, Hurley and Jack) appeared on Dharma Times, I think that the writers did that on purpose to tell us more about the story of the Initiative, and to put more trouble ahead of them.

I have a feeling that the man that was on the plane who said to Jack ‘Sorry For Your Lost’ works for Widmore, otherwise that thread of the story would be Lost.

Finally, I’m now more positive than ever that John Locke is going to be some sort of on-Island Jesus,and that’s because:
He was trying to convince everyone to BELIEVE IN THE ISLAND
He SACRIFICED himself to SAVE the REST
He was betrayed by some sort of Judas (Ben shooting him in the Dharma Pit)

Lots of thought, a lot of them fresh as they come out of my head. Forgive the grammar, spelling and verb mistakes, English is not my native language.

Funny to think about it that way since he told John he could not come back once he moved the island but now is afforded that opportunity because of Aaron’s absence even though Aaron was in his mother’s womb when 815 crashed.

After posting, I read Kelleyish’s idea about Aaron. That’s a good theory that fits in many ways. I like it!

1) The whole bit about trying to emulate the original flight as much as possible was just too cutesy for me. There’s no good reason for doing this since you can’t really go all of the way with it. Blah.

2) Geek Moment : The comic book that Hurley was reading was written by one of the new Lost writers, Brian K Vaughn.

3) Here’s a wild thought. What if Kate made a deal with Widmore to protect Aaron from Ben? And the deal is she’s working for him. And that’s why she’s so uptight now. Just an idea. She probably just gave him back to Claire’s mom and just misses him a lot.

4) That other guy in first class is going to show up again. He’s not just an extra. That’s an actor I recognize from other things.

5) Ben’s business had to be Penny. And that could motivate Desmond to return to the island now. How would he get back? He could be anyone sitting in the back of the plane. After all, he doesn’t have to do any of the emulation since he wasn’t on the first flight anyway.

6) John, if your sister-in-law bails on the show because of christian allegories, then she was never a true fan in the first place. Seriously, I’m an atheist and I see no reason to go berserk when I see a christian allegory… or when I see God’s name on my money, etc. Battlestar Galactica is a very popular show… where the christians are the bad guys and the pagans are the good guys, but does anyone really care about that?

But on the practical side, they are going back to a deserted island, so why didn’t they dress for it, Jack, a suit? Really? What happened to the hiking boots Kate was supposed to wear? Is Hurley bringing a guitar to recreate Charlie’s guitar?

Ben wasn’t on the original plane, so was he supposed to be on this one? No one delivers a line as cold as Ben. Jack – “what happens to all the other people on this plane” Ben “who cares?” Why does anyone even listen to this man!!

I’m usually not a fan of the Jack-centric installments, but I really loved this one. I’m particularly interested in Kate’s side of the story now. Was I the only one that was creeped out by her, this hour?

To protect him; probably with his grandmother.

“7) How did they end up on the island without a crash?”

Looks like it was from a time skipping island flash, to me.

Also, that Indian guy on the plane is evil

I have a feeling that something happened to Ben and he didn’t make it back to the Island. Wasn’t he supposed to never be able to return after turning the Frozen Donkey Wheel?

Overall, not my favorite episode. It had a few great moments, such as the reappearance of Frank (though I do miss his beard!) and Ben’s speech in the church. After seeing what ChiliDog posted and the preview for next week, I definitely think that Locke is some sort of savior or redeemer. Next week looks amazing, by the way!

P.s.- just saw lost untangled on “life on mars”, that looks pretty funny, we should all go check that out.
Keep up the good work,
-Tyler

1)Why did Kate leave Aaron behind and with whom?

2) What has happened with Desmond/Penny/Charlie? Will we see them again? If so, how?

3) Who beat Ben up?

4) Why was Sayid taken onto the plane as a prisoner and by whom?

5) What made Hurley decide to come? Who told him about the flight?

6) Who is the mystery passenger on flight 316?

7) How did they end up on the island without a crash?

I was glad to see Frank as the pilot. I guessed correctly that he would be. Will the flight attendants survive or were they innocent victims?

I did like seeing Jin find Jack, Kate and Hurley.

My sister-in-law is a total atheist. She has sworn that if Lost is a Christian allegory like the Chronicles of Narnia she will stop watching. I suspect that she will definitely stop watching now.

As a side note, I was a Classics Major about 33 years ago in college. I studied the Greek New Testament and especially the Gospel According to John.

In ancient Greek, the translation of John 3:16 is more accurately translated “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not BE LOST but have eternal life.”

The gospel does not intend that non believers will perish, but they will be, for the lack of a better term, lost souls, such as Dante so well visualized in his Divine Comedy.

I’m sure that the title of this episode refers not only to the flight number but also to John 3:16. It is more than likely looking forward to the future of John Locke. Will he “resurrect” or reappear in a new form, much like Jack’s father and, indeed, much like Jesus reappeared to his disciples after his resurrection from the dead?

So, as a whole, I was disappointed by the episode, but, on the positive side, it made me think.

Another great episode, and we won’t get answers to EVEN MORE questions for at least two weeks since next week is all about Locke.

Love the podcast Ryan and Jen, can’t wait to hear your take.

Ben’s unfinished business – Penny! He was by the boat docks, I hope he didn’t blow up their boat or something like that. At least he hurt his other arm this time.

Interesting bit about the shoes, again it all comes back to Locke’s legs and feet.

As one who has been convinced, this really touched me.

Does Sun know they cant come back? Would she have left her daughter if she did? Or is it just Jack who can never come back?

Hugo buying up the tickets was vintage hurley. Not wanting others to be hurt if possible.

Lapidus! Brilliant!” We aren’t going to Guam are we?” HA!

Ben sure got his a$$ kicked. Widmore goons most likely.

Next week, lockes story! Cant wait!

What happened to Aaron? My guess, kate gave him to Claires mom.

Jin in the Dharma van!

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=bookclub

I am really excited about how 316 will work in John 3:16, probably the most notable passage of the New Testament…

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Could this refer to Locke, as in, whoever believes in the Island shall not perish but have eternal life….?