Jen didn’t quite know what to make of this episode. She said it was weird, she said it was surreal, she said it seemed like a dream. To be sure, “316” took its time, compared to the breakneck pace of the last few episodes, and — except for the fantastic opening scene — stayed entirely off the island with the Oceanic 6. There was a definite eerie tone throughout. And I, for one, liked it. The wailing strings of Giacchino’s score throughout took me back to Season 1. It was a good feeling. And that fantastic opening scene? I was thrilled that the show went there. Back to Jack’s eye, back to Jack on his back on in the jungle, back to the incredible “LOST” pilot. But it also made us doubt our prediction of how the entire series will end. Much like the return of the Oceanic 6 to the real world, this twist came earlier than expected, and is making us redraw our mental map of “LOST.”
If I have to give up on a variation on the time-loop theory, though, the otherwise odd and sudden appearance of Roy makes me pay more attention to the fans who are convinced all of “LOST” is tangled up in the Shephard family tree. Christian, Jack, Claire, Aaron… I mean, Roy says that one day he’ll escape and never be found. Where do you suppose he might go? Jack’s grand-dad gave off just the right level of creepy. And Jen said the casting, as kin of John Terry, was spot-on.
Either way, no other episode so far has made it more clear that this is the penultimate season of “LOST.” From the montage of our friends boarding another plane, to Jack’s explanation of Christian Shephard’s tennis shoes, the connections to the show’s beginnings are foreshadowing its end. We still have no idea what it will be, but now we can feel that it’s there.
The prominence of shoes triggered Jen’s memories of other key shoe scenes. The white tennis shoe is, of course, the first thing Jack sees in the Pilot. Kate removes shoes from a dead body in Season 1, then takes her stepfather’s shoes off before blowing him up in Season 2. Locke removes his shoes before entering the Swan station for the first time. And Hurley’s visions of Dave also featured a shoe. (Here’s a much longer list.)
A theme of faith was hammered home tonight, and specifically of Jack finally making the leap. His astonishment at how Sayid and Hurley ended up on the airplane was a bit much, but his “conversation” with Locke’s body was great. If he could only see the “Man of Science” now. The religious references are back in the spotlight, with Ben’s invoking Thomas the Apostle (and the episode’s title brings to mind “John 3:16,” a pivotal verse in The New Testament).
I was more struck by the “Chronicles of Narnia” link with the name of “The Lamp Post” Dharma station. (A lamp post is a major landmark in the “Narnia” story.) In “The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe,” a character is instructed to bring his brothers and sisters through the magical wardrobe. Why? To fulfill a prophecy in which the return of the two sons of Adam and the two daughters of Eve will end a witch’s reign, and crown the character king. Sound familiar?
Of course, “316” is hardly subtle about planting new questions. Why did Kate change her mind, and what happened to Aaron? Why is Sayid in custody, and why would he be transported to Guam (or Honolulu)? Why did Hurley sign on? And what happened to Ben? There’s no question the promise and “loose ends” he had to attend to was the murder of Penny. We can only hope that his battered condition means it didn’t go very well. All of these things, I expect, will be revisited in flashbacks while things unfold back on the island. Which makes me wonder if the final acts of “LOST” will mirror the show’s first couple of seasons in structure.
Hurley was right to freak out about Ben being on the plane, though. I don’t think that’s part of the master plan. And given Ben’s adversarial relationship with Widmore, and Christian Shephard’s frustration with Ben’s actions last week, it would appear that Sayid was right when he said that the only side Ben is on is his own. I can’t wait to see what he’s up to.
And the closing scene, where Jin drives up in a shiny Dharma van wearing a Dharma uniform, was pretty great. It simultaneously tells us that the Oceanic 6 returned to the island in a much earlier time, and that Jin (and presumably the rest of the left-behinders) has been living in that time for a while. My secret hope? That the Dharma Initiative hired Jin and provided him intensive language courses in Latin… and English. Talk about a great way to save Daniel Dae Kim from spending the rest of the series speaking Korean.
Notes and Notions:
- Just how closely were they able to recreate the conditions of the original flight? On one hand, much attention was paid to the little detail of Christian’s shoes. On the other, the plane was practically empty. No step siblings, no rockstars (save for a guitar), no cops or African warlords, and no high school teachers. Oh, and no pregnant women, unless Kate’s mysterious visit to Jack was for more than a little comfort.
- Hurley’s decision to bring a guitar is yet another thoughtful homage to Charlie. Along with “Simon’s Butcher Shop,” it sure seems like the writers are going out of their way to make sure he’s not forgotten.
- I loved that Hurley bought out the rest of the flight. I also loved the cold way Ben says, “Who cares?” when Jack asks what will happen to anyone else on the plane.
- Looks like we have a few new characters, provided they survived whatever happened to Ajira Airlines Flight 316. May they be handled with a little more grace than Nikki and Paulo.
- The brand of milk Jack served Kate is Meadow Gold. It’s available in many states, including Hawaii… but not California.
- The way Kate was found on the rocks in the lagoon, Jen noted, seemed to directly mirror the way Jack found her on his bed.
- The new and improved Frank Lapidas (Jeff Fahey) made Jen swoon.
- Guaranteed the song that was playing in Jin’s Dharma van is a Geronimo Jackson track.
- Locations: St. Andrews Cathedral housed The Lamp Post. Simon’s Butcher Shop is a real butcher shop in Kalihi. Roy’s care home is the Arcadia apartments, a real senior living facility.
Please comment below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LostLine at (808) 356-0127 by Friday, Feb. 20.
The signifance of Shoes…
According to the penguin dictionary of Symbols….
Shoes have a “funerary siginificance. A dying person is a bout to take his leave. ..shoes at the bedside (or in coffin perhaps) show that that person is no longer well enough to walk; they are the sign of death. If they symbolize travel, it is not towards the other world alone, but in every direction….Without shoes thier journey is broken and they wawit for Heaven to provide them with the means to continue on the next stage of their journey.”
So maybe since they had to recreate the flight as before putting jacks father shoes on john who is now the one in the casket is like hurley bringing charlies guitar. I also wonder what is next in Johns journey. We haven’t seen john wear those shoes in earlier episodes right?? or Christian wearing them???
I wasn’t very thrilled with this episode. Aside from Desmond telling them they were bloody crazy and the very amusing exchange between Jack and Hawking “Is he lying?” “Probably” I was very frustrated by it. Hawking’s explanation is absolutely insane–you have to try to recreated the original circumstances as closely as possible? I just don’t buy it. And what was the point of Daniel sending Desmond there? Desmond tells Hawking that your son told me you have to help him, and she basically says yeah, we’re way of ahead of and already working on that. So, Desmond basically comes there to bring Penny to be killed? What was the point of that?
A lot of folks have already referenced the lamp post from “The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe,” but there is another book, “The Magician’s Nephew” that tells the story of how the lamp post came to be in Narnia. Two children, Digory Kirke and Polly Plummer travel to another world that is a dying world call Charn. It has been destroyed by Queen Jadis who used “the terrible word” to win her war against her sister and destroyed all life on Charn but her own. The children try to escape Charn and leave Jadis there, but she grabs them and is brought back to England in our world where she precedes to wreak havoc. There is then an altercation in which the two children, Jadis (and a piece of lamp post she has ripped off a lamp in London), the nasty Magician of the title, and a cabbie and his horse are all brought into a brand new world that has not yet been formed. Aslan is creating the world that will be Narnia. Jadis throws the piece of lampost at him and it sticks in the ground and grows into the lamp that Lucy and the Pevensie’s encounter when the leave the wardrobe. Jadis brings evil into Narnia (there is more to her story if you want to check out the book–it’s available from audible!). I can’t help but see a similarity here with Ben and Widmore. They are at war and don’t care who or what gets destroyed if they can win. I’m with Hurley on this one–Ben should not be there. Like Queen Jadis, he will bring evil and destruction.
This might be a wild jump, but I feel like Ilana might be Naomi’s sister….perhaps returning to avenge her death. I dunno…
A couple of thoughts..
In response to Connies question “JHow was Kate able to leave the country so easily given that she is not supposed to even leave the state of California for what? the years?”
Well as we seen in the lamp post with miss Hawkings there was a picture of the island that Jack looked at that had “US Army” written along the bottom of it. So if the US army is involved in any way it’s safe to say that letting Kate leave the country wouldn’t take much effort for it to be permitted.
My other thought concerns Kate and Aaron. Many people seem to think that Kate left Aaron with Claire’s Mum. I disagree and tend to think that Kate left Aaron with Sun’s Family.
In episode 5 we hear Sun talking to her daughter ( Ji Yeon) on the phone and telling her that she has “found her a new friend” This seemed quite strange to me at the time. But makes more sense now.
We know that Kate doesnt trust anybody more than Sun so it would make sense.
I think Aaron and Ji Yeon will grow up together and play a big part towards the end of season 6 when they are adults.
After all why would Kate say to Jack “Don’t ever ask about Aaron” if all she did was leave Aaron with Claire’s mum? Why wouldn’t she just tell Jack that? The only reason it was kept a secret that i can think of is that it’s for a big future reveal and leaving Aaron with Claire’s mum wouldn’t be a reveal. Ji Yeon and Aaron together as adults would be.
Jack’s grandfather is just the right age to have been in the military in 1954, maybe he was on the island with the American soldiers testing Jughead. What about Christian? Was he a doctor with the Dharma initiative? What is the Shepard family connection to the island? That is a question I would like answered.
One other question, why didn’t any one of the Oceanic Six ask how they could get OFF the island once their mission was completed? There was no rescue plan was set in place. I would think that Sun would have wanted to know before she left her daughter behind.
Jack is so self centered in this episode, he acts like everybody should be happy to be going to the island, and is so obviously happy to be with Kate, yet not really being sympathetic to the pain she is going through losing Aaron.
It seems we have important decendents of the island having names all beginning with the letters in Jacob’s name. We have Sun’s new daughter conceived on the island, Ji Yeon, Aaron, Christian/Charles Widmore and Ben and the”O” stands for the “Others”.
Forgot, the J in Jacob also stands for Jack. I wonder if his grandfather’s name is Oliver or something beginning with O.
@Danie – Thanks for sharing that. You’ll also notice
that Dingory = 7 letter name starting with D, like Desmond and Penny is similar to Polly. I definitely think they are being (and have been) used as pawns in the game between Widmore and Linus for a very long time now.
This show is so fun!
Guam is a US territory, so I am not sure it counts as leaving the country.
Am I the only that is worried for Desmond/Penny/Charlie. I have a feeling the promise to the old friend that Ben was going to keep was the promise he made to Whitmore about Penny.
Also I think Kate left Aaron with Clementine’s mom.
Yeah, Kitty, I am very worried about Desmond, Penny, and Charlie. Very worried brotha!
Guam is a US territory, but you need a passport to get there and back from the States. If Kate was not able to leave the state of California, she certainly would not have been allowed to either get or keep a passport.
I agree with a couple others that Kate left Aaron with Sawyer’s daughter’s mom. Otherwise, she could share the details with Jack, unless it was just too emotional to ever discuss no matter who he was left with.
Also, the date of the US Military photo was EXACTLY 50 years prior to the flight 815 crash. 9/23/1954. Not sure if important, but I would venture to say that a 50 year old photo from the US Gov’t does not mean the gov’t knows where the island is currently, as we now know it is a roaming island. It might have been a photo the young Miss Hawking “Ellie” took from one of the US soldiers they killed in 1954 as the deployment of Jughead was being arranged.
Sayid could have been being escorted back to Australia via Guam due to the murder of the person outside Hurley’s mental hospital or any other crime he committed, perhaps one arranged by Ben. They still had “dirty laundry” and Ben could have even framed Sayid.
I wonder if Ben, in his assumed attempt to avenge Alex’s death by killing Penny, was shaken up because he was not expecting a toddler at the scene… Little Charlie better be okay! Penny – eh, Desmond – eh, but Charlie, come on now, that was the cutest kid – even though Widmore’s grandson (and now possibly Christian Shepherd’s if, as some theorize, Desmond really is Jack’s “brotha”)
Speaking of family connections, I agree that it is still not 100% confirmed that Miss Hawking is Faraday’s mother, but I also agree that she appeared less than interested in Desmond’s message…curious.
Loved the episode over all, felt like I was on a roller coaster the whole time.
Wow, that episode blew my mind. “We’re not going to Guam, are we?”…that definitely made my list of top 5 Lost lines ever. The look on Lapidas’ face when he looked around the plane and saw the rest of the oceanic 6 scattered about was awesome.
One thing that is driving me bananas (not from a mythology standpoint, but from a character standpoint) is how easily Sun made the decision to go back to the island. I get that she wants to find Jin, but she’s making a decision to leave her 3 year old child with no parent. I have a 4 and 2 year old and when I took a 2 day business trip to San Juan I cried in the airport, and on the plane, and then again in my hotel. She’s going to crazy Lost Island where she knows very well she may never come back and she doesn’t seem even remotely conflicted. But then again, she’s been flitting all over the world on her quest to get vengence for Jin’s death, so I guess it stands to reason that she’s so obsessed with it that she’d just go. Ji Yeon doesn’t appear to be her top priority right now.
I have to agree with others that this episode was really disappointing, and – along with “This Place is Death” – really worries me about what the remainder of the series is going to look like. The stories are very shallow – Robin mentioned in one “You All Everybody” that without the flash forwards/backs, there’s no emotional resonance to the plot of the characters. These episodes have been more like “24” – characters just driven to continual action, with no commentary on why they make certain decisions, what the consequences for them (emotionally) are, or what the bigger thematic impact is. I want to be able to, at the end of the series, be able to look back and say “This was a show that said something important about “. I love sci-fi, and have no problem with the time travel – but remember: all our castaways were supposed to have crashed on this island for a reason. They’re destined to help in something great, right, not just to bounce around in time and keep the already-foretold history of the island complete??? Please tell me there is something great in store for these characters! “Jughead” and “Little Prince” really excited me, b/c they mixed answers and mystery with (seemingly) contemplative character development; it seemed Darlton really would be able to tie everyting up, while giving us an epic story with depth. But honestly, I’m worried.
Things I didn’t like:
The fact that the O6 had to closely reenact the first flight – this seems like simply a facile way to get them all there. Why must they do this? What’s the pseudo-scientific reason for this?
Ms. Hawking’s scene – I agree, it was very cursory. It seemed like just a monologue – you could almost imagine the blocking in the script: “blah blah blah, walk down stage; blah blah blah, walk to Jack, etc”
Why are they introducing new characters??!!! They haven’t even fleshed out the freighties yet! I want complex backstories to these people, with details that aren’t always in service to the overall mythology (ie Farraday). That’s why we love our castaways; we know so well.
Ben can’t go back to the island, remember?? Was that a lie? And, also: if Ben doesn’t know about the Lamppost, and the island can only be found with the Foucault pendulum and the equations, how have Ben and the others (Richard, Ethan, Tom) been hopping back and forth to the real world (demonstrated by Ben’s passports, Richard and Ethan’s recruitment of Juliet, Tom’s visit to Michael)?
On a positive note: if it’s true that they’re going back to flashbacks for the remainder, then that’s promising, and actually displays some nice symmetry. The first 2 1/2 seasons were flashbacks; last of season 3 and all of 4 were flashfowards; first of 5 is “present” narrative; and then a move back to flashbacks. Like the pendulum, we’ve swung from one direction to another, with a pause in between, then back again!
I would think that Kate would be able to get onto the plant to go to Guam, but without a passport she probably would be denied entry. Not that that is a problem now.
Since everyone the losties are opn the island during the Dharma time frame, does this mean that they are going to be killed by Ben when he “cleanses” the island?
Camille:
“Finally, to the person that said their atheist sister-in-law refuses to watch the show from now on because of the Christian allusions, I have to agree that she must never have been a true fan. I also question whether she is a true atheist, because someone who doesn’t believe in The Bible would see it as just another book and should no more be offended by references to it than the references to the many other books…”
I think that the problem is that the show has really taken a turn towards Christian religious symbolism. Before there was always a sense of spirituality, but now we’re being hit smack in the face with it. I don’t mind at all – in fact I’m a huge fan of the Narnia books for just that reason, but I can see why my sister-in-law feels that the show has gone to far with the religious aspect.
I also wondered about Kate leaving California so easily. I would have thought that she would be on some sort of watch list that would have triggered a red flag when she tried to leave the state on a plane. Since Guam is a US Territory, no passport is needed.
I do wonder why none of the Oceanic 6 (now 5) asked about getting back home. We know Ben told Jack that he’s never coming back, so if that’s the case for the others what’s up with Sun? Would she leave her child forever? I can’t believe that, but it may be what we’re supposed to assume.
I would be very very angry is Ben killed Penny. The Desmond/Penny love story is my favorite of all of the Lost relationships.
I’ll also be curious to see if Jin’s English has dramatically improved since he seems like he’s a full fledged Dharma worker now. I wonder how long it’s been that he’s been working for Dharma – a week, a month, a year?
John
[Comment edited.]
For those wonder how Kate could leave the country; when the charges were dropped due to lack of evidence, they are dropped. Her parole would also be dropped.
The plane thing really, really bugged me. I was just working up my suspension of disbelief for the time skipping, and now they throw in some sort of magic flash that sucks them off the plane and places them on island. I hope this has some sort of science-fiction explanation that doesn’t rely on magic.
But what I really hated was Jack. I think he would have demanded to know where Aaron was. And, he would have read the letter right away. It strains logic that he wouldn’t be at all curious, or think there might be further instructions in the letter.
Also, I think:
1. Ben killed Penny. This will give the Desmond the rage needed to return to the Island
2. Widmore has Aaron and is forcing Kate to be his spy.
3. Jack’s grandfather is Jacob.
This is how the series will end 😉
http://www.tvscifi.com/content/view/61/28/
Well, I liked the episode but have to say the Narnia stuff and references to the Apostles are making a little bit uneasy. Not to mention that the whole issue of them getting back to the Island and the Time Travel stuff is really getting to the point where suspending disbelief is getting a bit difficult. I’m in this far though so not giving up and it has been a great season so far in my mind. Loved the sequence with Jack waking up in the jungle, but like you guys I really thought that would be the last image of the series. Back to the drawing board on that one.
That said, I’m feeling pretty good about my Locke=4 Toed statue theory at this point despite Sawyer’s injured foot a few episodes back. What do you guys think? All theses resurrection/biblical references sure seem to point that way not to mention the brief glimpse we got of Ben kneeling before Locke telling him “you have no idea how important you are” in the preview for next week’s episode. If Ben is kneeling to him, he must be a God. Guess we’ll see next week.
Did anyone notice that the middle eastern guy who was in line at the ticket counter sounded exactly like Sayid? I played it back and it appears that they dubbed Sayids voice in when he said sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.
I can only assume that the:
Middle Eastern guy played the role of Sayid.
Sayid plays the role of Kate
Sayids Bounty Hunter obviously is playing the role of Kate’s bounty hunter
Hurley plays the role of Charlie
Kate plays the role of Claire (and is therefore assumed pregnant)
Jack plays the role of Sawyer (carrying the letter in his pocket like Sawyer did)
Locke plays the role of Jacks Father
Ben plays the role of Locke (guessing on this one)
thoughts?
Best line of the night was:
Frank Lapedis “We’re not going to Guam are we?”
“Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate” – William of Occam. The plurality of theories is good, but more commonly with Lost, the most obvious answer will be correct.
Why is Sayid being deported? The simple answer is a violent crime.
Why is Ben beat up? Sayid, an Iraqi national, not a U.S. citizen, committed a violent crime.
Why did Hugo go? Is it possible that “Charlie” told him to do so? I say yes.
Sun just outed herself, saying she wanted to be with Jin.
With regard to the other questions regarding the return to the Island, there will be many, many means and ways to get there, but we don’t have enough information to get us there.
I think we need to be careful regarding the Kate/Jack/Aaron situation, due to the complexities of the mother/aunt/father/uncle issues. Oedipal issues anyone?
The christianity of the episode is very small in comparison to the ancient mythologies that have been referenced. Indeed, for a non-believing audience member, christianity may be viewed as another ancient mythology. It’s just a portion of the Lost mythology. Again, if we reduce things down, I think we will be able see the meta-narrative of Lost.
People keep pointing out the US Army photo of the island in the Lamp post. Remember that “Ellie” was part of the group that had taken over the army outpost with the young Charles Widmore (and Richard, of course). Since Ellie is most likely Eloise Hawking, she probably brought this photo back with her, and I bet no evidence of that group has been found by the US government. I bet they haven’t even been able to find the island since they sent that original group.
TVSCIFi – when the charges were dropped against Kate, she was put on parole and told she couldn’t leave California. Clearly, this will come back to haunt her. There was such a point of it that you knew when she went back, it would be an issue. I don’t think that Aaron is with Widmore. There isn’t any reason to think that Widmore knows about Aaron and would have any hold on Kate. The more logical conclusion is that because Ben knows and sent the lawyers on Kate that he realizes that he needs to get Aaron from her in order for her to go back so he brought Claire’s mother to LA and is the one forcing Kate to go back through blackmail.
I am a long time reader and listener of this blog … and watcher of the show … and love it. That being said, I found last night’s episode almost unwatchable. The whole explanation that in order to get back they need the conditions of the flight be as much like their previous flight … please. I mean, we are all suspending our beliefs a bit in watching this show knowing it is sci-if, but at the same time I think we are expecting more. Even though we are talking about time travel and what-not, I think we are watching thinking that an island like this actually could exist, at least, in some theory. Last night seemed more like a fairly tale. And I thought this episode fell completely flat. Kate is becoming the most annoying character of all-time. Jack is a close second. I find that episodes that center on them are becoming increasingly painful to watch. The rest of the cast is almost perfect. They are well-written characters and really good actors.
The best part of the episode was Jin showing up at the end. It was mysterious and gave me a bit of hope that future episodes will be better. Gotta remain positive. 🙂
Ok, just re-watched next week’s preview and I don’t think it is Ben kneeling down in front of Locke. Just his voice but maybe not him. Looks more like Jack. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
I knew that there would be role switching if they ended up coming back to the island the same way. I had no Idea how it would go down. I like Dustin’s layout. I expected Walt to show up though. The problem was with his aging. As a kid it’s noticeable and visibly out of pace with the time it is supposed to be on the show. they had to get him off of the island. They got around that with the three years later off the island ( a little) .- maybe we find out about powers from the first season…
They have a few extras to play with now that we have not seen. One key player that they made sure we saw.
They are back in the Dharma days, I am guessing, when they get back to the island.
Remember that Mrs. Hawking kept saying the Dharma Intiative built this, the Dharma Initiative used this…I think the others took the Lamp Post from the Dharma Initiative as a way to protect the island.
It’s really interesting that so many women commenting here think that Kate left Aaron with Clementine’s Mom. I think that’s because as Moms our primary goal is to keep our babies safe… Claire’s Mom was wrapped up with Ben’s lawyer so there is unknown danger there; Sun is involved with Widmore, has vengeance on her mind, and was also returning to the island. Considering the Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle, Kate’s secret promise to Sawyer, and Kate’s secret phone calls off the island, it is certain the Kate has been in contact with Clementine’s Mom. Plus there has to be some tie in or circle between that part of Sawyer’s past, Kate’s past (and probably ongoing) friendship the mother of Sawyer’s child, and the future.
I think there are 2 possible reasons why Ben was threatening to take Aaron. One might have been just to scare Kate… return to the island, or lose Aaron to me! Or, maybe Ben wants Aaron because he knows that Aaron must return to the island, and he knows that as a loving Mom Kate would do anything to keep him off the island. So maybe Kate gave the baby to Clemetine thinking that is the only way to keep him hidden from Ben… she has not seen a tie between Ben and Clementine’s Mom.
Finally, a new thought…. in response to something Andrew wrote… I don’t think that when Jack, Kate, Hurley find themselves back in the 1970s, they will be with Jin, but not Sawyer, Locke and Juliet. The latter three are also stuck in the 70s because at the end of a previous episode, did they not see Jin in the forest? Perhaps as some of you wonder, Sun Sayid and Ben will end up in a different time zone, but I do not think so… I just suspect they find themselves in a different place on the island, and just won’t connect with each other again for a few episodes. After all, Sun has to connect with Jin… and there is no way the original crash victims and Frank will not not reunite for the rest of the ride!
Can anyone tell me why Walt didn’t have to be on that plane? The fact that he mentioned that Locke visited him when Walt and his grandmother went to visit Hurley seems to give the impression that he may need to go back with the other Oceanic 6 members. Why didn’t any of the children (Aaron, Ji-Yeon and Walt) need to be on the plane for it to work? It seemed rather easy that the they made it back to the island.
Another major question is that if the Island is always moving in time, how was Widmore’s freighter able to sit 30 miles away from it for weeks without the island moving away from it?
I have a theory that the only way to stay on the Island, is through death. I believe Richard is dead like John Locke is and when Locke’s body gets back to the island, he will stay the same age and be there for years to come but everyone else who lives on the island will die at some point.
Thank you, Carol! I must be too practical-thinking, as I would totally be ‘dressed’ for an island-return: hiking boots, good socks, layered shirts, and my pockets stuffed with essentials. Seriously … a suit and tie, Jack??
I love the theories you guys come up with! For example, Dustin’s comments that everyone on the plane in yesterday’s episode is playing the role of someone else! dustin, very interesting that you think Jack is playing the role of Sawyer… But Dustin, who is playing “Jack”?
I have loved all the episodes this season. I feel like people are forgetting what makes Lost so great! Of course there are going to be more questions, that’s what they do! We would all be completely bored by an episode of just answers and no new questions. Just enjoy the ride! I believe not all of the questions will be answered in the end and again, that is Lost!
I watched the ‘enhanced’ version from last week and I am pretty sure they said that Eloise is Daniel’s mom.
I think Kate is tavelling under an assumed name. Ben does have access to passports and gov’t documents. Maybe he set her up to help her get on the plane??
Did anyone else notice that as soon as Jack read the note from Locke, that is when the plane ‘went down’. Also, Ben walked away to give Jack some privacy to read the note, did Ben do something to cause the plane to ‘crash’??
I just re-watched the episode; Holy head spin, Batman!
In the church when Ben tells Jack about the story of Doubting Thomas, knowing that if Thomas and the Apostles travel back with Jesus that they may be murdered, he is totally talking about himself. He was a non-believer that needed to be convinced. And when Jack asks if he was convinced, Ben says “we’re all convinced sooner or later, John.”
Now, I listened to this a few times and I swear he calls Jack, John at this moment . But then he says “see you at the airport, Jack”. Hmmmmm
Man, Michael Emerson is such a good actor. I totally don’t know if I should be terrified of his manipulative ways or feels deep sympathy for him! Genius!
In regards to Jack’s outfit for the trip back remember that they had to make things as close as possible to the first time they wound up on the island. Jack was wearing a suit the first time which is why he wore one this time.
I loved this episode. It was a relief to slow down. This season has been so fast paced that I haven’t connected to the characters like I have in other seasons. The episodes have been exciting and all, but I’ve missed that emotional connection. I like that it’s returning to flashbacks. I’m also very excited about all the upcoming reunions. I’ll probably need some tissues when Sun and Jin see each other for the first time. I hope she brought a picture of Ji Yeon for him.
I agree, TVSciFi.com, I think that Ben killed Penny. The marks on his face looked to me like scratches from fingernails. If Ben did kill Penny it seems likely that Desmond will return to the Island to get revenge. He saw the pendulum and heard Mrs. Hawkings explanation so he would know how to return. I’ve always had a feeling that Desmond will ultimately be the one to kill Ben. If he does I hope it’s toward the end of the series, I would miss Ben’s one liners.
I liked the theories about Kate being pregnant with another mini-Shephard. The look in her eyes when she told Jack that he can never ask about Aaron again was heartbreaking. I’m not sure if I agree that Kate’s working for Widmore. I think her behaviour is more related to her being completely emotionally drained. She just gave up the child she’d been raising as her own for three years, I wouldn’t expect her to be acting “normal” for a while. I hope that the prophecy about how Aaron can’t be raised by another doesn’t mean an Other. Especially if it were Widmore, poor Aaron :o(. Seriously, it’s a miracle that Penny turned out so normal. Personally, I’m hoping that Aaron is with Claire’s mom. Last week we saw how devastated she still is, maybe having Aaron would bring her some comfort. As a side note, I’m not happy that we have to wait until next season to find out what happened to Claire. (I’m assuming b/c Emilie de Ravin isn’t returning until season 6) She seemed so weird when Locke saw her in Jacob’s cabin. Maybe the smoke monster got to her like he did to Rousseau’s people. Right now I’m thinking that Hurley returned because he finally listened to Charlie and is returning to help Claire. Probably wrong, but who knows?
I really enjoyed reading everyone’s theories and I love The Transmission! Keep up the great work Ryan and Jen, I can’t wait for your take on all this.
I just want to add that Lost Entangled is AWFUL, and I wish they’d stop doing them.
Just a quick reminder: please don’t post spoilers in these episode discussions… even if we’re the source of some of them! Meanwhile, discussion of the “Next Week on Lost” previews are a grey area. Let us know if you object on this count. Mahalo!
“The Gospel of Thomas” was supposedly found many years ago by explorers digging near Israel, I believe. It’s thought to be a faux account of Jesus’s words, despite much evidence to the contrary, but it notes that “The Kingdom of God is all around and inside of you. Split a piece of wood and I am there, lift a stone and you will find me.” I also think that applies to last night’s episode if you think about it closely enough.
The island is inside all of them. At the last minute, they changed their minds and wanted to go back. And it was always there for them, they just had to believe in it. Great episode about faith. I loved the pacing specifically.
Hmmm guess that was directed at me. Sorry but I figure if people the current episode they are seeing the preview for next week. Not trying to ruin anyone’s day just hoping to add to the discussion.
No, Rizzo, it wasn’t directed at you. (The spoiler in question was edited out and marked as such.) I separately asked people’s opinions the “Next Week on Lost” preview because some fans consider it a spoiler (which is why we cover it in the Forward Cabin), but many don’t, and it gets discussed here periodically.
Wow, Love this site! Awesome ideas here: Pregnant (?) Kate, the pendulum past/present/future, Penny (?) attack.
All the ideas generated makes it worth the less than exciting episode.
And I am no Jater shipper.
Now I can’t wait to rewatch and look more at all the Easter eggs and clues.
I think Ben is trying to fix his mistakes not because he altruistically wants to save the Island but because he wants control of the Island and all it offers. The same motive for Widmore’s actions which makes the Lost story one big Chess Game – an idea I like much better than the Christian allegory and one I hope gets more play in coming episodes.
316
zz-z-z-zzz, (commercials z-zz); zz-z-z, (commercials zz-z); zzz-z-z-zz, (commercials z-zz); FRANK! cool, (commercials z-zz); JIN! cool.
There were some interesting things in this episode, but it was sleepy and very un-LOST-like for me. Can anyone report on whether more commercials are being inserted during the hour? Seems like it.
We are to assume that Ben L. and Richard A. have the ability to come and go from the island. How do they do it? It can’t be from turning the wheel and riding airplanes back into an interception zone. Is there another portal?
If Ben L. killed Penny, and Desmond follows him back to the island for revenge, I may stop watching this program. Penny has become a favorite character of mine. Last time we saw her, she looked like Tinkerbell. I’m hoping Desmond simply kicked Ben’s butt and that’s that. But there has to be a reason for Desmond to “get back” to the island, or his character has no further use.
Here are some of my random thoughts/comments:
I thought that Ben (and lawyer) would bring Mrs. Littleton all the way to LA for a reason – it makes the most sense that Kate would give Aaron to his grandmother. And it’s the right thing to do regardless of Ben’s manipulations.
I am certain that Ben’s messed up appearance is due to meeting up with Desmond/Penny. How this went down is unclear, but I am equally certain that we will see it.
It’s pretty simple to assume that Sayid was in custody for the murder of any number of people – Ben has the proof of most if not all of it.
I am sure that Hurley was visited by “ghosts” and my bet is on Charlie.
Why is Locke Christian Shephard’s proxy? Specifically why does Locke need something of Christian’s? If you follow the logic all the way to Ben – what does Ben have that belongs to someone else and to whom does it belong? Could it be what was in the case that he was hiding in the hotel vent?
I guess I am practical, because I think Aaron wasn’t included because having a toddler in the jungle makes for some tough filming. So the writers thought of a way to exclude him. Sometimes you have to think from a producer’s point of view. Do we really want a baby Aaron trying to keep up with Kate? I think she was blackmailed into going back, Why else would she leave Aaron and break the rules of her parole?
Ryan- loved your posting re: the show. I also read Doc Jensen and he just gets off on too many tangents for me. I think you make a lot of good points without delving too much into literary references.
I don’t think Penny is killed off, but I do think Ben went after her.
I also looked like Sayid wanted to tell Jack something important when he first saw him but couldn’t do to his guard.
Great ideas on this board everyone. You are giving me lots to think about.
I’ve read a few times here times that people think it’s strange what Sun said to her daughter about Aaron him being potential a friend for her. I don’t think that is weird at all, and I have heard parents say that on more than one occasion when meeting another person’s child (e.g. “I have a little friend for you back home who is just your age!”), or telling their own child they’ve met a child their age, perhaps a friend’s child who lives far away or something like that. In fact, I bet I have said it myself. Sun’s business trip and meeting Kate and Aaron seems like a very plausible situation for her to say such a thing. As for what happened to Aaron, I think either Clementine or Claire’s mother seem plausible. My first guess was Clementine.
Camille — interesting idea bout Naomi. What did her ring say again?
Sorry about all the typos above, I should have read it first!!
The middle-eastern guy on the plane was Tarik, Sayid’s commanding officer from season 2. Whats the dealio!?
Love the forum. Lots of great ideas. Keeps me thinking.
After watching the episode last night I thought it was a bit silly.
The whole Mrs. Hawking scene was goofy. I prefer when she is mysterious and not so Mary Poppins.
The more I think of it the more I see that there was a whole lot in the show. I can’t wait for Jeremy Benthem.
BTW – Anything in ‘Next Week On Lost” should be fair game.
The benefit of being home sick: I get to watch LOST again this morning and read all the comments! It’s so good to hear all the well-thought out comments…and some of the others, too. 😉 Let me add to the second category.
Kate pregnant: Why? There are other passengers in the main cabin. Any one of those women could be pregnant. Who says pregnancy had to be recreated, anyway? What about a couple where the woman has cancer? What about a minor t.v. star and her thief lover? What about a guy who runs his mother’s wedding company and his snotty, rich sister? What about a drug lord turned priest? There were lots of other people on 815; they didn’t try to re-create everything because THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE. They did what they could on very short notice, and all the similarities (Ben arriving late like Hurley did the first time or the guitar case that Hurley was carrying, probably as an homage to Charlie) were more like Easter eggs that fans like us can thrill at, can savor. If you try to make everything fit, you will be disappointed.
Ben getting up: I imagined he went to the lavatory…like Charlie. Doesn’t really matter where he went, but we didn’t see him in any of the seats, and unless he was hanging out with the flight attendant, there aren’t any other choices up front. Frank certainly didn’t invite him up to ride shotgun.
Frank: Will he transfer to the island? Maybe not. Maybe he was just there to proxy for his friend who piloted the first plane with the bonus that he was once on the island. I mean, let’s face it, there was going to be a pilot no matter what, so it’s not like a proxy was something they had to go looking for, but he’s the coolest replacement pilot option, right?
The other people in the main cabin: I know the producers call them “socks,†but I like the Jay and Jack term of “log carrying guys,†so I’ll stick with that. I hope that the other people in the main cabin make the leap to the island in some way. We need more log carrying guys. With Miles’ belated detection of trip-wires, I think we’re almost out!
The other people in first class: OF COURSE they’re going to be bigger players. And I say great! I like seeing new characters introduced. I like when questions are posed and plots get complicated and credulity gets stretched and LOST plays with my mind. That’s why I watch the show. It doesn’t take a genius to know when someone is going to play a bigger role, but it would take a genius to predict what that role would be. I love being able to recognize that something is going on and know that I’m still going to be thrilled when I find out what is going on.
Ray Shephard, the grampa: Why him? Why not just have Jack go to his mom’s house, tell her he’s taking a little trip, and grab something of his dad’s from the house? Easier, makes sense for Jack to do, so this set up makes me think we are getting more of Ray later. Or someone just couldn’t deny the family resemblance and had to give this guy a job!
Christian’s shoes: To me, this was the most interesting component. They could have acquired a dead body. (I’m not saying I or the average Joe could do this, but Ben and his merry band of butchers seem like the kind of people who could finagle such a thing.) Then there would have been a body in a coffin. What seemed important to Mrs. Hawking was that CHRISTIAN be represented. Someone of his needed to be on the plane. If the scenes in the cabin and in the FDW area didn’t convince people, this should have made it clear that HE is particularly important in some way, and I’m intrigued as to how. He’s the only one who SPECIFICALLY was mentioned as needing a proxy. He’s the key.
I love reading everyone’s thoughts, and thanks to Ryan and Jen for hard work week after week!
Is it possible O6[O5] on 316 were pulled back in time to the time period the island skipped to first after it disappeared? We do see Daniel in this time period as our first glimpse onto the island after it disappeared. I think Frank may have set the plane down in 2007 on our mystery runway Sawyer and Kate were working on in 2004 [Season 3]. Frank was never on island when a flash occurred so maybe he wouldn’t be pulled back through time and we all know it has been stated before, he is one hell of a pilot. That would leave a whole group of 316ers roaming around the 2007 island and running into smokey and the others. I feel like where Ben is, or more specifically where Ben ended up in time may be the “unpredictable result”. I think Ben may have been trying to take Locke’s spot on the plane as the “Leader” of the others. If Ben ends up in the 70s dharma time period there would be 2 Bens on the island, one young & one older. Would he try to confront his young self? Would It cause a paradox? Or is Ben somehow in 2007 as well? my head hurts.