Next: “This Place is Death” (Episode 5×05)

With “LOST,” can there ever be too much of a good thing? The return of the smoke monster. The return of Christian Shephard. A glimpse of Rousseau’s early madness. Jin’s reunification with the left-behinders. Sun’s reaction to Jin’s wedding ring. Charlotte’s death. Ben being his sneaky self but with a flash of emotion. And yes, Mrs. Hawking, Eloise, and Daniel’s mother are one and the same. If this were season two, we would’ve had to watch three, four episodes to get such a bounty of plot twists and clues.

I was dizzy with glee at the closing thud, but Jen was a little less impressed. “It felt like a connecting piece,” says she. “The kind of touch-all-the-bases episode that usually came before a season finale.” And I can see her point. When once we lamented how the show dragged out the mysteries, I actually think we now miss some of that indulgent meandering and dramatic depth as we cover so much ground so quickly.

In terms of mythology, two characters’ last words carry the most promise.

First, Robert, speaking as a believer to a skeptical Danielle, explaining that the smoke monster is not a monster, just a security system protecting “the temple.” So the temple and the smoke monster are interconnected… and when the smoke monster isn’t on a murderous rampage, it has some pretty persuasive mojo. How awful, yet wonderful, was it to see just how Montand lost his arm (and Jen certainly didn’t feel bad for the guy)? What a delicious twist that Robert turned his gun on Danielle first? And that it jammed, as guns on “LOST” are wont to do, when the target still has work to do?

Secondly, Charlotte, flashing back to her youth on the island, suggesting a rushed departure with her mother as a child, and an early encounter with a scary man that was probably Daniel Faraday. I’m confident we’re going to meet a young Charlotte soon, reciting the very same lines about Hannibal and chocolate. The question is whether we’ve met Charlotte before? I still don’t believe Charlotte is young Ben’s doll-making Annie, but her final scene is certainly tantalizing. We’re pretty crushed that Charlotte died, as usual, just as she was getting really interesting: but we’re also confident her story has some missing chapters left to be told.

As for Christian Shepherd? Talk about leaving science behind. I loved it, though. “Since when did listening to him get you anywhere worth a damn?” And Locke was supposed to turn the wheel, not Ben. How would things have turned out if Locke woke up in the desert? I especially liked how Christian said he couldn’t help Locke to his feet. He is, after all, but a vision.

Jin’s sudden exposure to the flashes was well done, his reunion with Sawyer was heartwarming, and his demand to Locke to tell Sun he’s dead was especially intense. And Jen loved that his wedding ring went with Locke as proof of his death, but was ultimately used by Ben to convince Sun of his survival. How that ring came to change hands remains a mystery, and as Ben wiggled his way out of explaining, I got the distinct sense that he knows quite a bit more about Locke’s death than he’s let on.

Ben had some great lines. “I didn’t account for traffic,” or, “That’s true, Jack. I went to see him.” But his brief outburst in the van was great. His frustration with everyone trying to kill him was palpable, and the weight of his mission was clear. Whatever the moment, Michael Emerson is pitch perfect. He totally sold Ben’s surprise at learning Mrs. Hawking was Daniel’s mother, even if we weren’t surprised.

Other favorite lines: Miles bristling at the assumption he can translate for Jin, saying “He’s Korean, I’m from Encino.” Sawyer’s many quips, including, “Expecting a subway?” Or Charlotte’s love of Geronimo Jackson and fluency in Klingon.

But to us, little things gave “This Place is Death” some dramatic heft, despite all the mythological reveals. Danielle and Robert arguing about Alexander versus Alexandra. Jin pausing to get water from a leaf, and the reappearance of Danielle’s music box, which Sayid fixed in Season 1. And the almost too disarming smile Locke — or Terry O’Quinn — sneaks in just before he descends down the well. Go back and watch it. Golden. The magic is still there, and we love it.

What did you think? Please comment below, e-mail us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or call the LostLine at (808) 356-0127 by Friday, Feb. 13.

124 Responses to “Next: “This Place is Death” (Episode 5×05)”

  1. Stefani says:

    I’m early on this episode’s post – but a question I pose:

    If Jin also time-traveled with the island because he was in the water, but the helicopter didn’t because it was in the air… why didn’t the burning wreckage of the freighter also travel? Was Jin that close to the ‘radius’ Faraday described?

    OK I lied, I have 2 questions – #2) is the ARG stuff from season 1 going to come back into play? With Rachel and the medical stuff? Some guy with a blood transfusion? I was lost (no pun) with the ARG, but remember it being SO different from the TV show at the time, but maybe the larger ‘conspiracy’ is coming into play (didn’t Damon & Carlton have some ‘larger vision’ for the whole show?)

    What’s your thoughts? (PS: love the podcast!)

  2. Sydney says:

    We see that the Island group has been going through the flashing immediately after Ben turn the wheel and it seems like it’s just a matter of days for the nose bleeds are kicking in for multiple people on the Island. Assuming that the hemorrhaging will lead to death within days, how do everyone survive till the Oceanic six gets back 3 years later? I assume that when Locke leave the Island, he would probably be placed in time 3 years later like Ben was moved 10 months later but the answer to when Locke was placed will probably come up in Episode 5X7.

    I just started listening to your podcast last week. Your podcast is great, I have been downloading old episodes just to hear your take on the previous season.

    Keep up the great work.

  3. Silandra says:

    Stefani: Cuse and Lindelof on their podcast confirm that the piece of wreckage Jin was on was in the radius of the island. I assume from this that the bulk of the freighter was not.

    Ryan and Jen: I had another thought, listening to your podcast. It has bothered me that Sun blames Ben for Jin’s death, when only two people (Ben and Locke) know that he caused the explosion by killing Keamy. I am willing to assume that Locke-as-Bentham told Sun what happened (although not exactly sure why, as it doesn’t seem like it would make Sun want to return to the island, which was Locke’s goal in returning and talking to the 6. Still it makes more sense than Ben telling her.)

    What I realized this week is that the newly resurrected Jin must not run into Locke on the island – or wouldn’t Locke-as-Bentham use that as ammunition to get Sun to go back? If Locke is going to run into Jin before he leaves the island, you bet he’ll let Sun know. So, either Jin doesn’t connect with the other Losties before Locke leaves, or some of them find him but they don’t see Locke again before he goes so he doesn’t know.

    Or, Locke-as-Bentham has told Sun that Jin is alive and this game that she is playing (the gun, possibly pretending to hate Ben, etc.) is part of a plan to get everyone to go back so that she can be with Jin again.

    Or something! (My head hurts and it’s not even time-travel related this time.)

  4. cat says:

    Daniel Dae Kim also said in an interview with TV Guide that he was in the radius. So Ryan, interesting idea but thank god Jin will be time traveling with the island and not be stuck back with the Rousseau crowd !!! My head can get around that one a little better. Well it at least stopped hurting until I read Doc Jenson’s brilliant but confusing latest!

  5. ChiliDog says:

    Sydney: I think it fair to say that time on the island and time off the island are very different indeed. It is highly likely that the three years spent by the O-6 are very short for those left behind.

    I am wondering if the island is also skipping in space as well as time?

  6. Atoms says:

    What ever happened to Sun’s pregnancy?

  7. Sandy in Ojai says:

    Hiy Ryan and Jen, Boy oh boy I am sure enjoying your podcasts and sooooooo glad you both are back. I called you back in season 2 and talked about time travel with u and u both laughed at me lol. Anyway if u could discuss this little senario I have on the next podcast it would be greatly appreciated. Ok here goes… The Oceanic six are three yrs ahead of the island and have a 70 hr window to return(which I am sure they will make)… On the island its present time and I am figuring when the island stops skipping like a record and finally stops, it will be present time again. So here is the problem…. When the six return the previous 3 future yrs will not have happened and Arron will be an infant again and Sun will still be pregnant!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What do u think??? Cant wait for tonights eppisode and your next podcast, thanks once again for making this show one of the most enjoyable tv shows EVER.

    Sandy

  8. Martin in Eugene says:

    Some risky propositions:

    1) Sun is going to threaten to kill Jack, not Ben. I think it’s fair to say that Jack is most responsible for not allowing the helicopter to stay/return for Jin. (This, based on my imperfect and likely unreliable memory of that scene).

    2) If not tonight, then soon, pretty much everybody will die on the island, and Locke will get away just in time. When the Six return, they will return to the past, effectively negating the intervening three years on the Island and creating a new timeline. In fact, to the Islanders, it may appear that virtually no time has passed since the explosion on the freighter. Only the Six + Locke will have any memory of the previous three years (and the Islanders will be confused by Aaron’s rapid aging). This will not affect the timeline off the Island, which will proceed as normal, so long as the Island exists in its own little bubble of space-time (or trapped in a variation of a “Faraday Cage.” (see below)).

    3) At some point, Locke or other survivors end up traveling further back into time and create the original inhabitants, or “Others”, who grow up to defend the island – thus creating an infinitely-repeating causality loop.

    4) Faraday has more to do with this than is being let on. I think there is a connection to what’s happening with the island and the principles behind the “Faraday Cage.” (I just made this connection after reading “The Accidental Time Traveler” by Joe Haldeman).

    5) From last week – after reviewing the story of “The Little Prince,” it is clear that the “Little Prince” in LOST is Jack. His distance from the Island is killing him. It has nothing to do with Aaron. (Note: So now, for my money, “The Little Prince” was not only one of the worst episodes ever, but also one of the most arbitrarily-named, vis-a-vis the episode’s content).

    6) The biggest heartbreak will be for Sun and Jin, who although reunited on the Island, will have effectively abandoned their baby in time, but at least Jin knows the baby is safe off the Island. (At least until the Island catches up – which it will at some point, effectively transporting the whole group at least three years forward and back into sync with normal space-time).

  9. Stefani says:

    Thanks for the clear up Silandra – it makes sense… but my head is hurting reading some of these other posts!

    I wonder though, as to Sun’s motives… she’s really creeping me out now that she’s turned into Kate pre-island and Kate has turned into a small world mommy. I can’t wait to see Sun & Ben’s interaction that we saw in the ‘coming attractions’ at the end of ‘Little Prince’!

  10. Sawyer: “You heard the man, translate.”
    Miles: “Uh, he’s Korean. I’m from Encino”.

    Best line of the episode so far.

  11. josie says:

    it is really starting to bother me that Rose and Bernard have been MIA for what 3 episodes now? are we to assume they are dead? they cannot be dead…they would have showed that or did i miss something ?

  12. Rabbit15 says:

    Did the motion of the Donkey Wheel remind anyone else of a skipping record? I guess that’s the manifestation of Faraday’s metaphor of the time loops as a broken record from a few episodes ago. This was also alluded to in the first shots of this season when Dr. Pierre Chang’s record started skipping. I have no idea about the physics of this, but I guess we now know that whatever the Donkey Wheel is controlling is, in fact, behaving like a broken record.

  13. John Fischer says:

    Not one of my favorite episodes or even close. Not much really happened tonight that most of us have not guessed. It was a really slow episode in my opinion. The “reveals” were all too predictable. I have to say I was not at all happy by the significant death. I’m just not sure that we learned anything tonight that we didn’t already know or presume. Does anyone think that the person who died is really dead for all time?

  14. Dave says:

    Nadine = Charlotte? They sure look a lot alike.
    Another fantastic episode. So good to see Jin back with the gang.

  15. Michelle in NY says:

    1. Spec.tac.u.lar.

    2. Was Danielle’s Robert actually trying to kill her? Did he actually have the “sickness”?

    3. I do not trust Ben. I’m not even sure that the Island/Jacob/Christian Shephard trusts Ben.

    4. Someone, please give Michael Emerson an Emmy.

    5. Prediction: the flashes will now stop with our poor time-bouncers landing in Marvin Candle’s time. I’d hazard that this is where they will spend the next three years.

  16. Dave says:

    And now we know about the Black Rock and the sickness and how Montand lost his arm (yuck)… John Fisher, I agree with some of your comments, but with all the speculation on these boards and elsewhere *some* of this stuff is going to have to seem predictable. I really enjoyed it.

  17. Dave in AL says:

    Oh my gosh! “This Place is Death” brings back the excitement, suspense, and mystery of season 1. Certainly the best episode this season so far, it brings us more of the answers we’ve been craving yet maintains the atmosphere of mystery that surrounds those answers, such as seeing the Temple and tying it in to the heiroglyphs. But there’s the mystery of the Temple itself (which I’m sure is related to the four-toed statue), like who built it and why. I think the Temple, the statue, the well, and the donkey wheel were built by the same people, although I’m not convinced that they are the same people of Richard Alpert. By the end of the final season, I wouldn’t mind that some questions are left unanswered, leaving us with that sense of the unknown and always to wonder about those things.

    I just hope that each episode keeps getting better as the season progresses, like they have been. This episode was just simply exciting!

  18. Dave in AL says:

    One theory I have on Rose and Bernard is that they become the eventual Adam and Eve in the caves from season 1. I’m sure their story will be told.

  19. Nate in Ohio says:

    Wow. What an episode! This season just keeps getting better!

  20. Madolin in Austin says:

    First of all, this was a fantastic episode. It was great to finally see some of Danielle’s back story however I am left wondering if we are going to see more. I for one would like to see what made Danielle think the rest of her team was sick. It was quite creepy when Robert pulled his gun up on her, what did smokey do? Anyways, love the show, can’t wait til next week

    PS so Ben wasn’t supposed to turn the wheel, why is he helping the Oceanic 6 now? Does he feel bad (doubt it) or does he think he can go back and save Alex??? Who knows!?

  21. J0N Fr0M NC says:

    Hey Ryan & Jen, Its Jon From North Carolina.

    I just wanted to mention some stuff i forgot too.

    1. Ben Awesomeness!: Michael Emerson is a spectacular actor and when he flipped out in the car i was like DANGGG!!

    2. Hurley Fatigue: So whats up with the Hurley Fatigue this season, i know he was primarily in the premiere, but dang these last 3 episodes ive started to miss that little…. big guy 😀

    3. Hooked On Phonics: I guess in that final week before they left the island, Sun must have thrown the smackdown on Jin with some english yo.
    He was talking to everybody! Which was cool, but i wish i could learn French or Korean that fast lol 😀

    4: Music Box: Along with Montand’s arm, the music box that Sayid fixed back in Season 1 was a nice little addition. I think tomorrow Im going to watch Solitary and then watch this episode again to help me piece together her story a little better.

    And Last, But Not Least…

    5. Ben & Des!!!!

    I don’t know if you guys realize, but Desmond and Ben have NEVER shared a scene together EVER! Which kind of struck me odd when he said ‘what are you doing her?” to Ben. If im wrong, im sorry, but i dont remember them ever sharing a scene together. And did you see the look on Desmond’s face when he saw Ms. Hawking!!! Classic Lost

    The last 3 episodes, “Jughead”, “The Little Prince” & “This Place Is Death” have been phenomenal, but then i realize, the Premiere was really cool too! So Im actually starting to believe this is going to be my favorite season if it keeps up like it is!

    Anyway, keep up the good work, and I will ttyl 😀

  22. Jono says:

    Kudos to Eddie Kitsis & Adam Horowitz! If there were any writers associated with Lost that have made noticeable improvements, it’s these two. To be honest, I wasn’t the biggest fan of their episodes until midway through season 3. But their latest installments have been some of the best of their respectful seasons. I absolutely loved tonight’s episode and I agree with everyone that this season keeps getting better.
    Poor Daniel. Poor Locke. Poor Montand’s missing arm.

  23. Rabbit15 says:

    I love this theme of sacrifice that is going along with Locke. It is interesting that in season 1 he made Boone “the sacrifice that the island demanded” and now he is the one in that spot. My favorite moment of the evening was when Christian said, “Say hello to my son for me.” and Locke replied, “Who’s your son?” Just a fleeting moment that reminds us all how little the characters know about each other.

    Just one thing that bugged me: why would you become an anthropologist to discover an island that you came from? Wouldn’t that be more like “geographer”? I mean, I know that archaeologists discover artifacts, but how could she have known that there would be artifacts to find? If I’m missing something and my anthropology program is really offering a course called “Finding weird islands 101”, then sign me up! Sorry, just bothered me a bit.

    I second Dave that this is the best episode so far this season. For me, this is the first episode that presented more questions than it did answers, and that’s what I love about this show-its ability to constantly add more layers and keep the questions piling on. I guess the first few episodes were just a bit too straight-forward for me. This one was more about the mythology of the Island and I loved it!

  24. Greg says:

    My favorite episode so far this season. Yeah, a lot of stuff was predicted, but it was still all cool to see for me except the Mrs. Hawking / Daniel’s mother reveal. But SO MUCH else happened. Complete back story with Rousseaus’ team. Smoky. Sun confrontation. Jacks dad. More donkey wheel. Charlottes death. A little more back story on her before she died. All very cool. Regarding Rousseau, is it possible that SHE is the one with sickness, not the rest of her team, and that is why she killed them. Her husband maybe tried to kill her for the same reason she thought she was killing him. Just a thought. Best season ever so far. Amazing.

  25. DaveWR says:

    Besides the horribly predictable ending (Sorry Jen you were right it was her) it was a good episode. One thing I didn’t care for is this whole ‘they all have to go back’ and now it’s “well, I guess these guys will do”. Which one is it grandma Eloise? All or some?

    I love how the show always mixes in some Stephen King homages like “Montand” screaming for them to come save him not unlike the clown from “IT” in the sewer drain! I actually yelled ‘It’s a spider monster don’t follow him!” But I am really glad we got a back story, albeit quite short, as to why Danielle was out of her mind when our losties found her.

    And did anyone else want to hide after our next meeting with creepy dad? And the line about telling his son “I said hi” was just outright eerie. How in Jacobs name can it really be him, but the island version of Ryan Seacrest (also just as disturbing) at the same time?

    One thing for sure is that I love that I am questioning elements I thought I had figured out and that is what made LOST so addictive in the first place. I love this season so far!

  26. Wilson in the Ham says:

    Having just recently watched 1.9 “Solitary,” as in today, I saw a lot of things come to fruition with Rousseau’s history of her stay on the Island. So as a fan, it was great to see history play out. HOWEVER, I am completely and utterly dissatisfied with the progress of the show. Here are two reasons why.

    1. No longer is there any mystery or meta-narrative in regard to the characters. It seems as if Darlton has simply said, “We showed you who these people are, and they don’t change.” Really? Ben is coniving. Jack has a saviour complex. Kate is dumb. Only Sun changes? Please. Give. Me. A. Break. When faced with an apocolyptic event, everyone must examine who they are and how they will react to this change. What’s Jack’s motivation to go back to the Island, other than Ben told him he had to? Hurley is still looking for someone else to hand him his lot in life, and he will gladly take it. Why aren’t these characters growing as individuals? It’s sad. I really really enjoy the show and want this element to come back.

    2. Every “huge?” event has been telegraphed and there is no more surprise element to it. I know that we are a smart, creative fandom, but why do I feel like I am hosting a MT3K party every single time a “game changing” event occurs?

    Ryan and Jen, help me out. I am waiting to be consumed by the show, but I feel like I went to a decent tapas bar. I need sustenance!!!

  27. Michael281 says:

    Good episode. Can’t tell you how many times I expected a scene change only to have MORE revealed to me than I expected. And to those who aren’t liking the predictable answers to some questions… are you for real? Do you actually want to have spent so much time watching the show only to find it irrelevant and have the writers just pull bizarre twists out of nowhere for the sake of surprise? Some things SHOULD be predictable by now. I’m glad to just have the closure. And there’s a lot more to wrap up before the series ends. 🙂

    I confess that I had a “man behind the curtain” feeling more than once this episode. The feeling that I’m seeing the writers at work instead of watching the story unfold. First, then was Jin and Danielle. His stay with them was so brief it just feels like it was shoehorned in because fans wanted to see the french team. And then there was Desmond. His whole quest for Faraday’s mom appears to be a thinly veiled excuse for him to reconnect with the Oceanic 6 since they weren’t going to hunt him down and take him back otherwise. Seeing as how he wasn’t originally conceived as a recurring character, I guess it makes sense that the writers would have to find another way with him. Oh, and I’m not denying that Mrs Hawkings is Faraday’s mom, but they never really SAID she was. All we know is that Desmond is there to find her. They’ll probably make it clear next episode, but there is room for a twist there.

  28. brermike says:

    Great episode. I loved seeing Jin have a lot more to do than recent seasons, and in just a single episode, no less! I loved seeing the significant portions of Danielle’s story play out, and I’m expecting we will see her again around the time Ben kidnaps Alex. Great stuff – adventure, excitement, and again I feel like the pieces are all falling into place this season. While some think the reveals are predictable, I think some of the reveals are more about the characters being surprised, rather than us, the audience.

    I did find it interesting that twice now we have seen Smokie drag someone to their lair, and not kill them. Perhaps, Smokie can “sense” special people and tries to take them to the temple. I love how every time we see the smoke monster, we get a new nugget of information!

    Also, some people on here are questioning why Sun blames Ben for Jin’s death since only Locke knows about Keamy. I think Sun blames him, since the frieghter’s sole purpose was to extract Ben. If they weren’t coming from Ben, then Jin would never have ended up on an exploded freighter. Anyway, that’s my guess, but maybe Locke says something to her as Bentham, though after this episode, I’m not even sure he goes and visits with Sun.

  29. Stephen says:

    Excellent episode. With one more-or-less continuous storyline, it’s going to get harder to rate them separately. (P. S. Hi, I’m Stephen. Longtime-ish podcast listener, first time blog reader/commenter.)

    The big unanswered question for me is basically the first one: what is the smoke monster? Was that really a brainwashed Robert, his smokey-reanimated corpse, or Smokey in disguise? (And if so, why could Rousseau shoot him?) At least now we know where Rousseau got the “security system” line from.

    Now that they’ve started to answer questions, things are going to start getting more predictable and look more contrived. Given how they decided to tell the story this season, I don’t see a way to give us the answers we want without it, so I for one am not complaining.

    I am curious: is Charlotte *dead* dead? Or just mostly dead?

  30. KarenM says:

    Gah!

    It’s all I’ve been able to say for about half an hour, but reading these comments has given me ideas.

    1) The donkey wheel skipping like that didn’t remind me of a skipping record, exactly, but the way it was off-track like that makes me wonder if that’s why the people keep jumping through time. Now that John has pushed it back on track, they’ll probably stay in place. I think that problem has sort of played itself out dramatically, and it’s already made its point by claiming its victim.

    2) I couldn’t exactly follow Silandra’s explanation upstream about John and Bentham and Sun, but now that we know Ben is bad again, one wonders–well, I wonder–just what kind of story Bentham told Sun to make her believe that Ben needs to be killed. John probably needs Ben dead, but he’s never been one for doing his own dirty work. Why not get Sun to do it? I think we were supposed to believe John when he promised Jin that he would tell her that Jin was dead, so he probably did. But it’s Ben who is in possession of the wedding ring. Surely John would have handed that over to Sun during the storytelling, right?

    Gah!

  31. Nels says:

    A good episode and the ending being a bit more subdued than the last few THUDS we had was good. Can’t always have the jaw drop at the end of an episode.

    It is inevitable that some things are going to be predictable as we get more answers but what surprises me is the amount of answers and the fact that we still have a full season and the rest of this season. So, they are probably answering more of the lesser important questions now and saving the big answers for later.

    With Christian Sheppard not willing or able to help Locke out, I’m almost certain that he’s not an actual physical being. Monster manifestation, maybe?

    Ms. Hawking’s willingness to deal with what they have seems plausible if the 70 hours represents a window of opportunity to get back to the island. May as well start with what you have and then get the tougher ones later. Seems that is where it will go.

    Wheel is back on its axis again so flashes should be gone and I’m guessing nosebleeds will be stable now too, which bodes well for everybody except for Charlotte.

    Rose and Bernard aren’t likely dead given Saywer, Jin and Locke aren’t dead from nose bleeding.

    Christian tells Locke to bring back everybody, which sounded to me like more than just the Oceanic 6. May explain why Locke visited Walt as Jeremy Bentham.

    Wanted to see more about the French team story but given the flashes, I guess we are still left with mystery there and really only now know that Smokey did some (or all) of her team in. Sickness really a sickness or just her own insanity? Don’t know yet.

    Interestingly enough, Rousseau remembers Jin after flashing from the temple that Smokey was protecting. So, they’ve been affecting the future memory of the people they’ve run into, after all?

    If Sun goes back to the island without Ji-Yeon, they’ve certainly set up conflict between Sun and Jin there, plus conflict with Jin and Locke, if Locke does get back to the island alive. I’m sure the phone call from grandma and Sun talking to Ji-Yeon was to emphasize that as a future point of conflict.

    Was a bit disappointed with Kate/Aaron and Sayid parting from Ben, which felt more like a way to just extend the Oceanic 6 storyline an extra episode or two.

  32. Connie in Alaska says:

    Holy Schneikies! Nothing happened in this episode like I thought it would! So Ben broke the FDW when he cut the line in front of Locke and left the Island. And I didn’t think Des would meet up with the O6 minus 4 just like that. And poor Charlotte…well, I will go back and check out the posts now so I don’t repeat what all y’all have already said.

  33. Rob from Canada says:

    Hey guys, just wanted to give my 2 cents.
    I love this episode, the opening scenes with Danielle and her team with Jin, awesome.
    I had my hands over my mouth in shock as smokie made his return. Ummm.. there is lots to talk about but everyone has pretty much mentioned it all already, so I won’t go into it. But, my thoughts when Ben pulled out the ring to show Sun, was that Ben killed John. Whether it was John’s choice or not i’m not sure, we’ll find out in the next couple episodes I think. I hope! Keep up the great podcast guys! and all you guys’ comments on here are awesome! Lately it’s been the first place I go to to hear everyone’s thoughts on a new episode 😀

  34. Connie in Alaska says:

    Predictable? I LOVE having my questions answered even if I or others have guessed the answer ahead of time. If we are right…hooray! validation! If we are wrong…hooray! a surprising twist! Either way it’s all good! And, as has been pointed out more than once, with all the speculation and theorising that goes on here and at a hundered other Lost places, we are bound to hit on an answer once in awhile.

    Questions: How did Robert and his friends avoid the Smoke Monster in its lair…or DID they? How did he come up with the “security system” explanation? Why didn’t Jin say anything to Locke and the others about encountering Danielle? Who or what is behind the various messages about not bringing people back to the Island, when all we’ve been hearing is that they have to go back? Charlotte remembered Daniel from her past, but he seemed not to know what she was talking about…or did he? Is she referring to a time that has not happened for him, but has for her? Am anxious to find out Christian Shepherd’s true identity and place on the Island.

  35. Julis says:

    Hi Ryan and Jen! Love your podcast!

    I have a kinda crazy theory.
    My theory is that the smoke monster is what imparts knowledge about the island.

    In the scene where Jin flashes past 1988, and meets up with the french team again, Robert says to Danielle about the temple and how it needs to be protected and such. She says that he was sick, because of what the monster had done.
    What if Robert and the rest of the team understood what was going on with the island because smokie told them? After seeing how they got killed, smokie learns not to tell everyone what’s going on?
    Maybe that’s why smokie took pictures of Juliet and Kate in S3, to see if they were worthy of the knowledge, to prevent the whole Danielle thing from happening again?

    Not really polished train of thought, just wanted to throw it out there and see what everyone else thinks?

  36. Taren says:

    I was wondering when someone was going to bring up the whole conversation between Daniel and Charlotte, and Connie did it brilliantly! I was trying desperately to figure out ages… my thoughts were, if Charlotte was there for the Dharma times then why didn’t Ben know of Faraday yada yada! But I think Connie has it nailed in that, it might be leap back when Faraday (who now knows to look out for Charlotte as a little girl) warns her… although she does state that “there was this crazy guy who lived there” as if he had lived there for quite some time.

    Sorry for the sporadic train of thought

  37. Rob from Canada says:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned above, I just thought of it as I was reading Ryan and Jens awesome review thingy on the front page for this episode. Danielle removed Roberts firing pin, no? If I remember right, I believe she said this to Sayid when he also tried to shoot her in the same way.

  38. Jonine from Arizona says:

    I knew Ben couldn’t be trusted!..Christian couldn’t have said it any better!! The episodes just keep getting better and better. I didn’t expect Desmond to show up and I bet Ben didn’t either, but I am glad he did.

    I am going to piggy back off of Ryan and say..

    If it was John that was suppose to move the island, then it throws off the whole loop. Things wouldn’t be the way they are…I wonder if we will see what “happened” if John turned the wheel instead of Ben….but then that goes against Fardays rule of you can’t change the past…whatever happened..happened..very interesting and potential crucial turning point in the story.

    John has to clean up Ben’s mess..

  39. Bonita (from Atlanta) says:

    HI all, I liked this episode, can’t wait to rewatch.

    Did anyone else think the French team’s story reminded them of the book, “The Ruins”?

    Sorry to see Charlotte go but it felt like a natural progression for the story. Hopefully more of her backstory will be revealed later. Laughed outloud at her “Klingon” line.

  40. paintergirl1 says:

    I’ve always wondered how those who were taken by the others would so quickly become believers in their cause. For example, Cindy seemed just as scared of the others as Anna Lucia, Libby, Bernard, and Eko. However, when we see her with Jack and later with Locke, she seems content to be with this group. Perhaps all new arrivals are taken to the temple to be “introduced” to the smoke monster’s lair. We’ve already seen how Smokie can look into a person’s past, so perhaps it can also influence how someone behaves.
    I don’t believe Danielle went truly crazy until they took her daughter from her.

  41. Dave says:

    Taren, agreed — Eloise also looks at Faraday as if he is crazy in “Jughead.” I think Faraday has been doing more time jumping than we’ve seen so far.

    Question: After Danielle’s mates get grabbed underground, something happens to them to make them want to kill Danielle. I would assume that this was *not* the Others who did this, as they (in Richard and Ethan and Ben etc) have wanted to have a child born and have taken a special interest in them. They also talk a lot about “the sickness” and clearly something happened to Robert to make him try to shoot his MOB/wife. Is this what Dharma was vaccinating against? His paranoia seems similar to that of Desmond and Kelvin in the hatch. Very peculiar.

    A commenter last week on the podcast mentioned Ben’s comment that Widmore “changed the rules” when he had Keamy kill Alex. I didn’t interpret that as Alex travelling back and forth in time but rather that Ben and Widmore were not to make this personal (e.g. you don’t go after one another or your families) but that it should be more strategic, more of a chess match than a war of attrition. Just thought of this last night after seeing Alex in utero… and I really did enjoy the Danielle flashback and thought it added much needed depth to her character. and why she’s so paranoid.

  42. iwantdesmondshair says:

    Wow, this episode was awesome! I’m pretty sure now that I just flat out don’t like the episodes that are all about off island characters, I want to see smokie, I want to see old ruins and I want stupid comments from Sawyer. This episode delivered all of that but left us with some mystery still.

    And apparently Ben wasn’t supposed to move the island? That part was awesome! I’m so skeptical of Ben’s agenda right now and for that matter Farday and Hawkins as well.

    Now I can’t wait to see where Locke “ends up” after he just turned the wheel.

  43. ChiliDog says:

    I’m with Jen. I don’t like being spoon fed. While this episode had some good moments, having Charlotte relate her own childhood story was just a bit too easy. As I watched, I realized we learned a great deal of Danielle’s and Charlotte’s story in just a few minutes. It seemed rushed. These stories are like a fine cognac, they need to be sipped, not gulped.

    There were things I did enjoy. I enjoyed that friendly feeling that arises from time to time that I simply cannot trust Ben. I also thoroughly enjoyed the tension between Ben and Desmond, even if it was only in my mind. We knew the secrets each kept, but of which the other has no idea. Like listening to a conversation between a husband and wife, when you know each is cheating on the other.

  44. Steve says:

    “Say ‘hi’ to my son for me…”

    Loved it. Great episode. I’m officially giving up on trying to figure too much out – but can we assume that Jack is ‘related’ to the island in some fundamental way? The whole Christian=Jacob Christian=/=Jacob thing keeps getting more confusing.

  45. Dave says:

    What do we have left, 29 episodes?
    There’s a very delicate balance between ending the show with unsatisfying unanswered threads and questions, and being “anvilicious” and “spoon fed.” I agree that some of the plot threads are being quickly addressed, but let’s give the writers a break… we’ve got a lot of ground to cover and I think in general they’re doing a phenomenal job with keeping the story interesting enough for the hard-core fans and yet accessible to a large audience.

    I thought the glimpses of Danielle were great. I agree we didn’t get enough Charlotte. But remember that when Danielle disappeared in the past we lamented that we’d never learn her back story… and we did. So I trust there will be more of Charlotte. If last night’s episode didn’t happen the way it did we’d probably be complaining that the nosebleeds were being drawn out over too many episodes without consequence.

    And as an aside… the actress who played Charlotte was great last night. She provided a creepy factor we haven’t seen for a while. This place is DEATH.

  46. Orjan Berg says:

    Hi Ryan & Jen Orjan from Norway here.

    I love your podcast and I hope it can be aired sooner in the future. Its hard to wait until sunday 😉

    1: Ryan, I don’t think that Robert’s gun jammed when he tried to shoot Danielle. Did not Danielle tell Sayid in season 1 episode Solitary that she had removed the firing pin from Robert’s gun like she did with the gun Sayid took from her place?

    2: If the the time flashes stops after Locke pulled the wheel like Christian told him why must Locke bring the Oceanic 6 back?

    3. I am excited about the temple. The hieroglyphs at the temple walls indicate it is very very old as no civilization has been using them the last 1000 years at least i think. Any experts on this out there that can read those at that wall?

  47. Kira says:

    Why did Daniel seem surprised when Charlotte said she grew up on the Island (real surprise? fake surprise?), when Daniel had previously asked Miles if he was sure he’d (Miles) never been to the island? Daniel told them he thought the nosebleeds/etc were caused by the amount of time spent on the island, Miles said he’d never been there before, are you sure?..
    He had to have known that about her, maybe even remembered her from the past. And if he’s been there before, why isn’t he getting the nosebleeds.

    Are we still thinking that Faraday, like Alpert, doesn’t age? Didn’t he look the same when they showed him there when Dharma was being built?

    I had just watched Solitary from season 1 again too, that helped me.
    Thanks everyone for the great thoughts!

  48. Joshua says:

    My theory from this episode:

    Ben killed Locke (as Bentham) off the island. Ben has been trying to get rid of Locke, discredit him or take Locke’s place ever since Jacob/the Island showed how special Locke was. It’s been a power struggle since the beginning for Ben. Locke was supposed to turn the wheel and move the island; so Ben did it. Locke is told by Christian to round up the O6 and take them to Mrs Hawking. Ben finds him off the island, learns these new instructions from Jacob, kills Locke and takes over his mission. Ben just wants to keep his position on the island and thinks that if he steps into Locke’s shoes, so to speak, everything will go back to normal for him.

    Joshua in Sacramento, CA

  49. Joshua says:

    Continuing from above . . .

    So none of what Ben is doing is for the benefit of the O6 or the island. He is, yet again, out solely for his own ends.

    Joshua in Sacramento, CA

  50. Dave says:

    Kira — really good question. Why wouldn’t Daniel suspect that she had been on the island before? Although maybe he did know, and maybe that’s why he suspected Miles had been there before as well. Maybe Daniel, knowing that young girl Charlotte might not remember him as same-age Daniel, and having a big fat crush on her, kept it a secret hoping she wouldn’t remember him… and being surprised she did.

    Daniel seems to be quite the harbinger of badness and I hope his black cloud doesn’t move over to Des now.

    I think Daniel does age. I think he, like all the other people moving in time (or in consciousness), appears to be the same age when he moves. He somehow is better able to do this than anyone else. But the only person who truly hasn’t aged and doesn’t seem to be time-traveling (or consciousness-traveling) is Alpert. Ben, Locke, Danielle, Eloise, Widmore, Walt, Aaron (just to name a few) all clearly age. We’ve really only seen Daniel over a short period of time — I interpreted his appearance at the Dharma station in episode 1 to him being a time (consciousness?) traveler a la Eloise the rat and Theresa and Desmond and Minkowski.

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